@@PanTheOrganizer en effet je n’ai pas fait attention. Merci pan pour les explications très bien détaillée. Comme quoi le prélavages est très important. Je trouve quand même bizarre que les prelavage a fort pH n’ont pas été plus efficace que le gsf
This time I will directly order through the links instead of my Amazon account. Things are going good for my detail business. First, I found a chiropractor who designed exercises and stretches before and after detailing a car. At sixty-four years of age, I’m not groaning exiting my bed the next morning. Two, I’m using my 2013 Subaru Outback with 225,000 miles as a model during weekend rideshare driving. I get a least one client if I’m in the suburban areas (few own cars in Chicago). These cars tend to higher end and I require a very good pre-wash. It looks Bilt Hamber has what I’m looking for. Thanks for the video.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
Would be interesting to see it compared to regular car soap, ONR, and an apc like power clean. Lots of people foam with just car soap, onr would be interesting, and powerclean is often used for the same purpose in rinseless and is cheaper per gallon.
That isn't necessary, I can just tell you. ONR doesn't foam, at all. To use an apc as a foam, you need to get a hand pump foaming sprayer so you don't dilute it down beyond being effective through your pressure washer. I would strongly suggest a nonfoaming pump sprayer for your apc so it can be laid down quickly and not having to pull a trigger 300x. You would want to foam your wheel cleaner, as you dont need full strength most of the time. You would be happier without foaming (significantly diluting) your apc to use as a prerinse. However, you can always add an apc to the soap in your foam cannon to make it more aggressive, without buying a separate product. It works with other brands too, not just koch chemie, but kcx actually suggests this method and gives you directions on the bottle on how much to use. Furthermore, you really should avoid those cheap, harsh degreasers on your car's finish, unless you're degreasing an engine block. The Family Dollar stores have an even stronger and cheaper degreaser they sell, the name slips my mind. But get yourself a quality apc (not a super strong degreaser) that is meant for use on the exterior of vehicles. It won't be the cheapest available, but will work better and safer.
@@scottmattern482 I think you're concentrating too much on the foaming part. I'm more interested in the dirt breakdown effects. I'm asking for a more generalized "prespray" comparison -- snow foam is just one type of prespray. I know ONR doesn't foam, but it does emulsify and break down dirt, so it could be a contender. I mentioned powerclean because it's suitable for exterior use (aside from glass) and can be diluted and foamed. Powerclean is a quality apc and not cheap or harsh.
I used to work for a company that made commercial and industrial cleaning products. Everything we made that was designed to be used in a foaming device didn't work very well without one. So I too would love to see a comparison where these products are used when foamed, though they should only work better than they did this way, lol Also, just to clarify, you wouldn't want to use an alkaline snow foam on any kind of traditionally waxed surface, is that correct?
These are meant to be foamed, so that's how they should be tested. One of the purposes of the foam is to allow the product to work longer. So the results could be different.
Unlss you were intending to reapply the wax, I'd say you're correct? Obviously, it depends on the alkalinity of the foam, but most alkaline products will remove most pure waxes, especially if you're also going to be shampooing. Products like Turtlewax Ceramic and Graphene Wax, Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax, and Fusso Coat will survive a few washes with alkalines, especially the Fusso Coat! Basically, any ceramic infused waxes are my preferred option for waxing my own car if I'm going to be washing every week.
Correct. Repeated use of high pH snow foams or shampoos on regular waxes or sealants will degrade and eventually strip them off. Ceramic coatings have a much higher chemical resistance so no worries there.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
I have been working long enough with these snow foams and snow foams in general to tell you that the results would be the same as far as which one cleans best. But you are also free to go ahead and do your own tests at home, on your vehicle and see for yourself by using products you want. Like I used to do before even starting my own channel. No need to wait for a UA-camr to do the tests. ;)
Hey Pan. I was an avid AngelWax snow foam fan. I switched to Koch Gfs and my experience is that it’s not aggressive on the sealant base I lay on my car. I also get good slickness when I do my contact wash. I have come to realize that there is no one way to wash and clean your car. Sometimes you have to change the method and sometimes the products you use. Till the next one.
It's obvious on camera the 1st Bilt Hammer touchless was the clear winner. I'd be nice to see this test repeated with the products foamed up on different panels, maybe next time.
As soon as I saw the title and then the BH products I knew Jon put you up to this :) Glad to see his results duplicated by someone in different conditions. I'm a big fan of removing as much dirt in the pre-wash stage as possible.
I just wished he'd uses different products and made his own video because we've seen John do it there was no need to do it again, it really proved nothing more than a commercial for BH products IMHO.
Really Paul? Leave it to the internet to always find a way to complain about things. I used Gsf and Lift in this test, which Jon didn't use. And again, it was to show this to my viewers, which don't necessarily follow Jon, so I thought it was important to share this info with my audience and also show the results in different climates and conditions. And given from the popularity of the video and the positive comments so far, this video is a success. It's all about sharing knowledge and information from different sources and having fun testing things. It's a thing of passion. I wish you would appreciate the efforts that go into producing these videos. It's super hard work to produce and edit content. Also, when other creators use my videos as an inspiration to reproduce something for their audiences, I'm honoured and take it as a sign that I'm doing something right instead of being mad about it. It's normal that great creators inspire other great creators. As long as credit is given where credit is due (as I gave Jon credit in this video), it's all fine by me.
It would be very hard to control this test by foaming it on. Anyhow, when foamed it would perform even better, as the bubbles created increase the contact surface and when they burst you're having more surfactants do some scrubbing work for you.
I get your point but adding foaming to this test would simply add confound. Always better to minimize the number of variables. But a good follow up test would be something like BH Touchless foamed vs unfoamed. Or GSF foamed vs unfoamed.
@@akiralee1192 I foam with regular car soap and I see a difference. It softens the dirt better than a fast pre rinse because it sticks to the paint longer
Pan unrelated question but I don’t see any video’s about air tools do you use them? Tools like blow out guns with chemical Container or with out. What one is better? With plastic tip or new metal tip with bearings.. Guns like the Tornador is this a tool we should have? Maybe this could be a video for you if you have not done one.
Hi Pan, doesn't this do a lot of damage to unpainted plastics, glass coatings and trim because of the very high pH? From working at a dealership, trim often gets badly stained due to extremely low or high pH as far as I am aware.
I'm guessing you're talking about the black side window plastic trims and black tape door frames including mirrors etc.. I've only seen these stained if the product isn't diluted correctly or its applied to warm or hot cars .. When i worked at our local Holden dealer we only had that problem once when the yard rat decided to used a spray bottle filled with full strength car wash diluted with interior trim cleaner to spray on a dirty car to loosen the dirt. Pre wash foam won't hurt your car if you're using it correctly.
@@paulreichelt1259 thnx for your reply. I am still not completely convinced. I have loads of this kind of staining and in most cases due to, what i think, too strong chemicals in car washes.
If used appropriately, there are no worries to be had. Use in the shade, on cool surfaces at the recommended dilutions. These are meant to be used as pre-washes on the entire vehicle, meaning it's ok to use on all surfaces: paint, wheels, glass, tires, plastics, etc. As long as you don't spray in direct sunlight, and don't let them dry on the surface (especially for the higher pH snow foams). And no they won't harm ceramic coatings, as coatings have a much higher chemical resistance compared to regular waxes/sealants. And you don't need to use the higher pH snow foams for every weekly wash. Once very other month or in the spring (after winter) to remove road salts, traffic film and road grime that mask the coating's performance and characteristics. For regular washes, a pH neutral snow foam is more than enough.
Respect to you for giving Jon credit for this video. I watched his video and it was very useful but I do appreciate seeing your review with snow foam products available in Canada.
Pan I purchased the Bilt Hamber auto foam. I came back from a 1000-mile motorcycle trip here in the USA and needed to wash all those miles of bugs off my bike. I tried the auto foam and foamed the entire bike, especially the rims as you know how dirty they get with all the brake and road dust. I let it dwell for 5 min and then rinsed it off. I was amazed at how clean the wheels and rims were and this was without even hand washing them. I actually did NOT have to wash the rims but of course, did wash the rest of the bike. Did an amazing job. My foam cannon is the MTM PF22. I had done the panel ratio bucket test on 1000ml and it came out a little under 500 ml of product. almost 50% of water to product. I'm wondering if this sounds right or is a 50/50 ratio seems high to you? When I was finished I had 500ml of water/product left in my foam cannon. So obviously I do not need a 1000 ml in my cannon. I'm wondering if I had to much product or was I pretty much in the ball park? Thanks Pan keep up the AWESOME work you do....
There is a video done by Autocarehq where she makes a convincing argument that using a pump sprayer instead of a foam cannon might make more sense in products such as reset and auto foam, which are not known for their foam as much as their ability to clean. She postulates that the pump sprayer will require less of the product and do just a good a job at actually cleaning the exterior of the car as a foam cannon. I think I’ll give it a try, but I thought that maybe the great Pan the Organizer might just want to try it, as well. Happy Easter.
Yes using a manual pump sprayer/foamer will allow you to have a better control over dilution ratios, that's a given. Common sense. But using a foam cannon is much more efficient and quick. So it's a question of what you really want. But both work super well.
Here in Sweden we usually use a petroleum based degreaser during the winter which removes salt and stains from tar and asphalt. Many people apply the petroleum based degreaser first from the door handles and down and then spray snow foam over the whole care. Wait 5-10 minutes depending on the temperature and then rinse the whole car.
I still pre rinse because i feel the water from the pre rinse allows the foam to penetrate the grime and dirt etc easier, it's helping to begin the emulsification process.. I have honestly tried both on my daily driver and haven't found any real difference between grime and dirt removal but I'd rather pre rinse first to remove the loose stuff rather than have more gunk floating around in the foam potentially getting trapped in the moulding or somewhere it could come out later during the washing process... Remember the car John did was just dusty or sandy not "winter" dirty .. You do what you feel is right don't let these guys influence you because there's is no right or wrong way...
You will soon find out next Saturday on my channel. ;) (But yes if your car is heavily caked in mud or heavy dirt, please pre-rinse first. Common sense is crucial here).
@@PanTheOrganizerPan, somewhere I read/viewed that water alone in the pre-rinse from the pressure would actually push the grit, having it scratch! And, as you’ve demoed here, the soap, alone, in fact DOES lift the loose grime. Best, it was said, to foam and, then, pre-rinse; then doing a regular foam, again, before the contact washing. There, it was up to the quality of the mitts (curved, as one pushes) to slop the foam and dirt ahead…. So, a big, sloppy, really soaked mitt mattered. It all made sense to me! GREAT, great video. Thank you! Linda
Pan! Wowowowow! Where are my sunglasses? Hands down, the BH on the left. It just shone underneath. Never heard of it, but now I’m a BELIEVER! I was gonna go with the GSF or Adams’ MegaFoam, purely because of what I’d learned about reducing the dreaded spotting. Not anymore…. Thanks SO, so, so, so very, very much. Linda (Now, (for those of us not having outdoor spigot water softeners:) I’m curious if there’s a safe bucket additive to possibly soften the water and frothy-up the bubbly soap to, perhaps, help reduce water spots, too?)
First and foremost Pan, again, what transpire the most from your videos is your honesty. This is so appreciated. You have all my respect my dear fellow Montrealer! ;) Regarding snow foams, yes I originally saw Jon's test and it was revealing to say the least. I never used Bilt Hamber products as they seem to be more popular and easily sourced on the other side of the pond, but I use CarPro Lift in winter in a 5:1 ratio, followed by my favorite car shampoo ever the classic blue one from Adam's and this is for me the most effective wash stage for winter that I found. In the summer I use Mega Foam as a pre wash stage and also the classic blue or Reset in the contact wash stage and it's just the most satisfying for my preference. To me, honestly, even if the pre-wash stage did nothing I would still do it because it brings joy to my heart. I just happen to absolutely love blanketing my cars with incredibly thick foam and great smell, it's just part of my regimen and as stupid as it might sound I would do it even if it did nothing. There's just that therapeutic part for me detailing my cars, even if I don't have a magnificent 992 Turbo S which to be honest has been for a couple of years my dream car in Gentian Blue. Anyway, thank you again for your superb work and your incredible honesty and transparency Pan. This absolutely deserves the highest respect.
Bilt hamber did a excellent job. Currently I'm useing carpro lift. Will be switching to BH when done. I don't mind paying when u get top notch results. Thanks pan! 🏆👊 🇨🇦
GsF is my go to. I add 3 Oz of Green Star to the foam cannon for that extra bite. Not a fan of Bilt Hamber . Their snow foams are watery. I like a thick foam
The Bilt Hamber snow foams were designed to be more runny, and less "foamy". It's on purpose. They do have more cleaning power as shown here. Foam doesn't equal more cleaning power... It's just nice visually. But certainly not the only criteria for selecting a good snow foam.
Too long to explain by text, but there are a bunch of tutorials on how to calculate the PIR for your specific foam cannon and pressure washer setup. Here's the method I used: ua-cam.com/video/fZ_dyRofcHg/v-deo.html
All this time I’m watching and commenting on your videos. I’m just realizing I’m not subscribed to your channel. That has been remedied. Liked and subscribed.
I use Bilt Hamber Touchless before every wash......on a dry car so the dry film/dirt absorbs the cleaning chemicals properly and it does a fantastic job, washing after feels pointless. Great product although its more of a wet slushy foam than other products.
Could you lay down strips of foam with the Marolex Foamer and do this test again. Feel like a snow foam needs to foam to really give an indication of cleaning power.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
Interesting test. I suspect the cleaning properties would be enhanced by applying with a snow foam cannon and pressure washer. Even H20 will remove some of the dirt when applied with pressure.
They would work better because of the bubbles applying new cleaner ti the surface. No way to get water to foam though and he did rinse it with the pressure washer.
Correct! It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
I've been told never to use alkaline snow foam on ceramic coatings but you say PH neutral is more of a lubricant for contact washes so I'm confused what I should actually clean my ceramic coated car with?
I'm curious if this test can also be applied to waterless washes. I'm a fan of waterless washes, as I tend to use them once a week between more detailed maintenance washes (I live under a flight path for a big airport and a private airport). Can you run a test using different waterless washes? As they all do state that they encapsulate dirt for a safer washing experience.
You mean pre-rinsing with an APC? I wouldn't recommend that for each regular wash. Only when needed, example before doing a full decon wash to apply a new coating, or working on a super dirty customer vehicle that needs old grime and traffic film removed, etc. But yes APC pre-rinsing does work.
I just finished my carpro lift and recently purchase a gallon of GSF. My question is should I rinse the car first or spray the foam first ? Also, I’m not sure if this is a good idea, use GSF when the car is already full of pollen after being washed 2 or 4 days ago. & don’t have time for a full car wash.
Won’t do much with heavy dirt build up on the paint unless you do a contact wash, but it’s always worth it for every wash considering how much lubrication it provides with a thick foam. Once you start using it you will never go back
When washing, better to rinse then foam let sit, then rinse, oam again and agitate? Or is rinse then foam let sit foe a bit and then agitate okay to do or should you really foam 2x? Using turtle wax slick n slide by the way
For me, the difference between a high pH vs a neutral isn't enough of a difference. As someone with limited time, and resources, I'll probably just stick to a pH neutral foam and then a contact wash. Great testing. Thank you
There are instances where a high pH pre-wash (snow foam) followed by an acidic soap hand wash (bucket wash) can help to remove organic and inorganic contamination that a simple pH neutral soap can't do (traffic film, and mineral deposits are two of those contaminations that a pH neutral soap has a harder time with). But in general, for weekly washes, a pH neutral soap is all you need. I pull out the alkaline and acidic soaps every other month or so for a deeper clean, and to "revive" ceramic coatings that can get clogged (properties masked) by road film and mineral accumulation.
I use BH Autofoam. it's excellent. snowfoam makes the contact wash so easy and quick. it's uncanny how clean my mitt is. I also use it in a Pump Sprayer and works great. may try the Touchless next time.
Personally i think snow foams are not necessary. I have tried many of them and i've found that they are doing the same job as a really good rinse with a pressure washer. So i rinse first with my pressure washer, then i use ph neutral shampoo in a foam cannon to cover the hole car. I dont rinse it. I use a two bucket method with the same shampoo on my wash mitt while at the same time the car is coved with foam from the foam cannon. This method works for me every time and i only have one shampoo in my arsenal!
What ever makes you happy, as long as the results are there, there are many ways to do things. But for me, pre-wash with a proper snow foam is important, and we showed here with the higher cleaning ones why. ;)
I like using the Koch Chemie GSF since I am always going to do a contact wash afterwards. The closer I can keep all my chemicals to 7 on the scale the better. I will consider the CarPro Snow Foam if ever doing a snow foam without a post contact wash.
Can alkaline snow foam damage paint? I using public pressure washer once per week and they using alkaline foam. I know it is not best for protection layer but what about paint/clear coat?
It won’t damage paint unless you constantly hammer the paint with it for every wash. Using a high pH soap for weekly washes is not needed. And if you have a wax or regular sealant those shampoos will eventually break them down ans strip that protection off.
No. You can use higher pH snow foams on ceramic protection, but just don't use them every week. For regular weekly washes, all that is needed is a pH neutral shampoo and snow foam. Once in a while, like at the beginning of spring, you can use the higher pH snow foams and acid based shampoos for deeper cleaning, grime removal and mineral deposit removal. See my ultimate spring cleaning guide: ua-cam.com/video/oTaFE_p2OAw/v-deo.htmlsi=uhrksJweoOe9hDl5
Is it true that using a neutral PH foam (for your normal washes) extends the life of your ceramic/graphene coating vs using a higher PH regularly? That’s why I picked GSF over some of the others.
Correct. Using high pH snow foams too often can start to weaken the protection. You would use a higher pH foam or shampoo when you feel the hydrophobics are starting to weaken, or to remove road grim and accumulated traffic film once every other month like in the spring. Watch my video on a full spring deep cleaning here: ua-cam.com/video/oTaFE_p2OAw/v-deo.html
Snow foams are mainly used for foam cannons with a pressure washer. You could use a pump sprayer, but it would have to be a model capable of foaming chemicals. Either this model: bit.ly/41MqPug Or this model: bit.ly/3VfwcAs You can see what kind of foam it generates in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/7ZkGf-IVs4k/v-deo.html Another alternative is to buy a foam gun, which attaches to a regular garden hose (if you don't have a pressure washer). Here's my video showing the differences between a foam cannon and foam gun: ua-cam.com/video/rJPk8nR8Ib0/v-deo.html
It seems that the hammer foam was the only one that cleaned without leaving a film behind so I would lean towards that one. It would provide a better perspective if we actually saw what the foam does when applied in a foam state. Nice work Pan, Thanks
Both methods are accepted, up to you to decide what works best with your conditions and products. Some like to pre-rinse, then foam, then rinse, then contact wash. Others like to foam, rinse, foam, wash.
One of John's opinions that I've really taken to is that there is no need to pre rinse vehicles as it dilutes snow foam, which seems contrary to most other content creators. Could you explain why this is?
Wet car body means more water added to the foam mixture. BH puts PIR instruction. The other thing is you will scratch the paint by just pre wash with water. If you pre foam in dry paint then the chemical will work to encapsulate the dirt and more safe for you to do follow up rinse the encapsulated dirt with water.
No they won't harm ceramic coatings, as coatings have a much higher chemical resistance compared to regular waxes/sealants. And you don't need to use the higher pH snow foams for every weekly wash. Once very other month or in the spring (after winter) to remove road salts, traffic film and road grime that mask the coating's performance and characteristics. For regular washes, a pH neutral snow foam is more than enough. This vehicle was protected by a graphene ceramic coating by the way. ;). As is my own Porsche, and you'll soon see these snow foams used on my own car too. Stay tuned.
Salut Pan , je suis sur la rive sud de Montréal et j’ai besoin de ton opinion. J’ai une protection céramique et j utilise un snowfoam de prélavage durant l été sauf pour cet hiver, j’utiliserais une pompe manuel et un boyau d arrosage à jardin pour faire mon pré lavage. Quel produit je devrait prendre?
Id love to know this as well. Or if it is NOT recommended to use a hight (alkali) PH number on waxed or ceramic coatings like a car prepared with Meguiars Spray Hybrid Wax
If used often, yes high alkaline pH (or acid pH) products will eventually break down older waxes and paint sealants, as those don't have the same great chemical resistance that coatings have.
Hi pan I use bilt hamber auto foam. But when the car is really dirty I start with bilt Hamber surfex hd at a low mix and spray the foam straight after then rinse both off.
Awesome scientific analysis. I stopped using snow foams after Ivan La Croixs perspective on using them. I’m convinced now that they truly work! Interesting how different detailers opinions can be. However science is convincing proof. Thanks Pan!
Same here. I think his claim that a pressure washer would do the same thing a snow foam would is clearly proven false here. I'll still be rinseless washing, but the snow foam definitely has its use for heavily soiled vehicles
@@batvon39 ,It appears Ivan La Croixmakes grandiose assertions regarding "rinseless washes, however, anyone who does them soon realizes that it's incomparable to using a pressure washer or the 2 bucket method. Even Matt from Obsessed Garage points this out in several of his analytic videos. I am so please that Pan has finally debunked this misconception.
@@rivakhoffman4825 I got skeptical when I watched a video of Ivan doing a rinseless wash, and when asked if he's not scratching the paint, the response was "the paint is going to get scratched regardless" lol
Question for you - if the main point of the gsf is to provide lubrication - this shouldn’t be washed off before the contact wash, correct? Or should I be snowfoaming once and rinse to get some grime off and then snow foam again for the contact wash?
I usually just spray down with the pressure washer, snow foam, allow a few minutes and then contact wash. If the car's really filthy in the winter then would wash off and reapply but I'm not convinced ph neutral snow foams really do much
What snow foam would you recommend in Arizona during the summer months. I would be worried about leaving foam on my car when its 100 F (37 C) for 5 minutes. I would think it would rune my paint or graphine coating.
Don't let snow foam dry on the paint that's for sure. If you are working outside, work in the shade and never during noon hours when the sun is at its brightest and hottest. If you have no choice but to work in direct sunlight, stick with a pH neutral snow foam like the Adam's Mega Foam or Koch Chemie Gsf.
Does it make a difference if just pouring on panel than applying it in a snow foamer (hand foamer) and a snow foamer in a lance gun ? Another query is which is better to use a hand foamer ( axel 2000 hand foamer ) v lance foamer ( mjjc foamer) As in a lance snow foamer it gets diluted as using..............????? Could you do a test which if any difference which is better?👍👍👍👍
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job. To answer your other question. Using a foaming pump sprayer gets you better control of the dilution for sure, compared to a foam cannon. But using a foam cannon is quicker and more efficient.
@@PanTheOrganizer thanks for explaining cheers I used touchless bilt hamber at 5/1 ratio in a mjjc v2 foam lance at full foam adjustment but didn't take much of paintwork (using nilfisk e145 pressure washer) I dried it after with a car dryer but only seems to have taken maybe only 10% dirt off
What do you do or recommend for cleaning the underside and potential undercoat. In Pennsylvania they use an absurd amount of salt and chemicals even if the winter isn't overly harsh.
pH neutral snow foams are perfect for weekly and regular washes. Once in a while, especially after winter or when you see the hydrophobics diminish, that's when you would pull out these deeper cleaning snow foams like CarPro Lift and Bilt Hamber.
I wouldn't use high pH snow foams for every wash. Perhaps once every other month, or as needed depending on the level of grime and traffic film contamination.
My pleasure Riley. How did you discover my channel by the way? Welcome to my channel. You discovered one of the biggest car detailing channels on UA-cam as we surpassed 850,000 subscribers and 106 million views! I have been detailing for 25 years and I love to share my knowledge and passion with my viewers. You found the right channel to help you learn everything about detailing.
@@PanTheOrganizer I found your channel after I bought my Stinger GT late 2021 and became more curious about detailing. Had my car ceramic coated with owner’s pride and then bought some of their products to continue to maintain it!
Hopefully you'll see this. The previous owner of my car had it ceramic coated. I'm not sure what kind of coating. Can I use Carpro Lift to help gain back the coating? I'm currently using Auto Fanatic Snow Foam as it PH neutral. Thank you
Hi Austin. It's hard to say, as I don't know what coating was applied, how it was applied, how long ago it was applied, etc. There are many unknowns here hehe. Watch my spring cleaning maintenance wash to see how I like to restore the hydrophobic properties of ceramic coatings: Full blown more expensive method: ua-cam.com/video/oTaFE_p2OAw/v-deo.html Budget friendly method: ua-cam.com/video/GIVDATYIPSc/v-deo.html If those methods don't work, the coating is most likely gone or on the end of its lifespan, and at that point it would be advisable to do a fresh application. Wash, decon, machine polishing, IPA, and then apply your choice of ceramic coating.
@@PanTheOrganizer thank you Pan! It’s supposed to be an “8 year” coating. It’s doing alright besides on the lower rocker areas! The whole car needs rock chips professionally fixed before I redo the coating!
Another great comparison video, Pan! Just curious if the higher Ph level from these soaps would strip polymer based top coats like P&S Bead Maker or ceramic based top coats significantly faster. (Not actual multiple years ceramic coating)
Wear do you get the touchless Snow foam? My Truck never gets out of the garage in winter summer gets bug juice and railroad dust in the garage as we live 2 houses and a road from the railroad tracks. Is going to get its first wash since repainted & clear coat and simonize ceramic coating profanely over the Paint. I can attest that the ceramic coating almost cleans itself had a lot of bug juice and was caught out in a bad thunderstorm drove another 75 miles after the thunderstorm and truck was dry, almost 100% clean. I still have dust from trains inside the garage from winter and a little bug juice. I am trying to keep scratches from happening from cleaning!
I think you should really do this test on a unprotected car. This would point to people who just want have a clean car and no further. I haven’t washed my car in 30k miles and I have bought auto foam specially to see how well it will do. I’ll be doing a rinse and foam and a foam on the other side. There is currently no protection what so ever. Great video and very informative
Hi Ryan. As this is a detailing channel and most of my viewers have a ceramic coating, this test was most appropriate. Most of my viewers are detailing enthusiasts and would never have unprotected paint or not wssh their car for 30K miles. But perhaps an idea for a future video. 👍🏻
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
I’m thinking about trying one of the BH products in my Marolux Axel Foamer. But I’m unsure how to determine the mix ratio since it’s not a traditional foamer. What amount would you recommend I add to 1 gallon of water?
Nice work. Why does a higher PH remove more dirt? Like water, I would think the higher the better meaning less acid or removal of dirt. Slightly confused.
Not quite. The higher pH will help soften and break down more traffic film and road grime. That oily film that masks coatings. But sometimes, a more acid pH (like CarPro Descale) is also needed to remove things like mineral deposits (hard water, rain). More on that topic in an upcoming spring cleaning maintenance tutorial. ;)
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
Finally a video that answers my question. I have a Canam X3 side by side and I was curious I’d detergents make much of a difference compared to just straight pressure washing. Thanks for the info.
Thanks Kevin. How did you discover my channel by the way? Welcome to my channel. You discovered one of the biggest car detailing channels on UA-cam as we surpassed 965,000 subscribers and we have over 130 million views! I have been detailing for 26 years and I love to share my knowledge and passion with my viewers. You found the right channel to help you learn everything about detailing.
@@PanTheOrganizer I think I typed a search asking if foam cannons really work? I was curious if detergents are worth the extra money to clean a SXS. Some companies advertise touch less and make it look awesome in the videos but is what they show a reality. Actual touch is the only success I’ve ever had but that’s challenging when cleaning the surfaces of a side by side
Hey Pan. Curious on your opinion. I have a black M4 thats coated with carpro Cquartz and gliss. The car is not my daily and it typically doesn't see rain or get that dirty. Most of the time it just gets dusty/pollen. Typically I do a normal contact wash with carpro reset but I have often thought if I could get away with a no contact wash by just spraying with snow foam and then washing off and drying with a drying aid. Do you think this could be better by minimizing the contact on the car? What do you typically do when your 911 is just dusty? Thanks for the help and detail tips! 🙂
You will never get 100% cleanliness by a contactless method. You ALWAYS need to finish with a contact wash. The road grime and traffic film need mechanical agitation in order to be fully removed. Pre-washes (snow foams) only help soften that up and lubricate the surface, and clean a bit, BEFORE the contact wash. I wash my 911 twice weekly. I would never just do a contactless wash. I always finish with a contact wash. And there are ZERO scratches on my car. You will soon see my spring cleaning maintenance wash video so you'll see exactly what I do. If you use safe washing and drying methods, there should be no worries of scratching the finish.
@@PanTheOrganizer Thanks for the reply! That makes sense that you need some physical agitation to remove everything. Thats good to know you are still using contact washes as well. I've been watching you for a while and have implemented a lot of your wash methods. So far I've kept the car in great shape so I will continue with those! Have a good one!
We will definitely be waiting for that video of the "2 different schools" of thoughts for pre-rinse or not before snow foam! I wonder if it's the same procedure whether the car is slightly dirty like few weeks or super dirty like few months of no washing. I would imagine if a car hasn't been washed for 5 months or so (I couldn't because of super busy schedules) a power rinse with water would definitely be helpful before snow foaming. At least that's what I did and hydrophobic tendencies are back.
The seemingly more and more apparent conclusion is that Water in and of itself does nothing at all for cleaning, at least compared to good surfactants, encapsulation agents, and a good ole higher(alkaline) or lower(acidic) pH cleaner. The only thing I can honestly think of for a traditional pre-wash is the pressure would help with cars where there's lots of dirt that can be separated from the rest, but even then you're watering down the surface already for your snow foam and then pushing around a bunch of dirt under high pressure. I like to use something like ONR in a sprayer to pre-treat any areas with lots and lots of dirt and then let my foam do it's job to clean as much of the rest of it as it can before I ever get a chance to move dry dirt around.
@@muchachogrande2019 yes. that is my thinking too. thank you for that. I wonder though if being watered down surface matters if you have ceramic coating. and if ONR and APCs have a "fading" effect on the ceramic coating in the long run with multiple washes. but all in all, I'm on same boat with you
i was specting the spray bottles to BE use um the teste. And i get curious to see...how ir wiil show result um the dark.... which Will Shine the most because of the Lost dirt. good job PAN.
Interesting. Like others, it would have been interesting to see a 2nd door have the same prewashes applied with a hand foamer to see if it changed the results. Your voice kept changing back and forth in the video. Did you do some voice-over in editing?
For ceramic coatings, NO. Unless you use higher pH snow foams every day. Ceramic coatings have a much higher chemical resistance compared to traditional waxes/sealants. So no worries. For regular washes, still use pH neutral snow foam. But for decontamination, removing traffic film and grime, especially after winter or after a few months, using high pH snow foams isn't a problem for coated cars. Repeated use on regular waxes and sealants will degrade/strip them off. So I wouldn't recommend higher pH snow foams on waxes or spray sealants, unless you plan on reapplying a fresh coat after you're done washing the car.
From my perspective on my iPad, I would have to say Bilt Hamber products worked the best. Until today, I never heard of this brand before, and because I live in pretty much the same environment as you in Montreal, I will seriously consider buying this pre wash foam cannon product. Thanks again Pan. Great job, great video as well. Cheers from Ottawa. 🇨🇦👏
Bilt Hamber Touch-Less (for winter) and Auto-Foam (all the other three seasons) are the two best snow foams I have tested as far as cleaning capabilities are concerned. You still need to follow with a contact wash, but the amount of dirt and grime they remove in the pre-wash is amazing. More videos to come with those in the near future.
cleaning wise its Bilt Hamber no doubt, lubrication and foam Carpro lift & GSF. in weekend warriors' term what's your recommended ratio of the Bilt Hamber? PIR is just a bit too much for me to understand 😅
I have just waxed my car with the turtle wax hybrid solutions wax, I'm using the bilt hamber touchless foam on it at a 20:1 ratio and so far so good, it doesn't seem to have damaged the wax yet and the cleaning power is absolutely fantastic. I'm also using surfex HD as a pre rinse at 20:1 too
It might be a bit too harsh for continuous use. There is no need for a high pH snow foam for every maintenance weekly wash. Once every month or every other month should be enough. For regular washes, use a pH neutral snow foam. Also, you don't need to use an APC pre-treatment before every wash, that is overkill and unneeded. If you take good care and regular care of your vehicle, you don't need to use stronger chemicals every week.
@@PanTheOrganizer isnt it best to remove as much dirt as possible before doing a contact wash? I'd rather have to wax my car more rather than have to polish it more
Each person has their method. I prefer using a stronger snow foam as a pre-wash when there's a bit more dirt. Some like using an APC pre-treat. Up to you to decide what's best in your conditions.
Although I do have a five-liter jug of Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam, the cost in the USA makes it quite expensive per application so I've opted to use it for specialty cases in a spray bottle. I've been using 3D Super Pre-Soak in my foam cannon at about three ounces per quart. I have definitely noticed the difference when I used it prior to my typical ONR rinseless wash; the water was much less dirty in the end and as a result, there should be less risk of scratching.
Would be nice to say how many ml or ounces of each product would be used in the MTM snow cannon to equal a PIR of 5% . Another challenge would put them up against neutral PH shampoo like GSF and the add some Green Star to compared the cost per application and effectiveness. I used 1 ounce of Reset and 1ounce of lift on winter cars in MTM snow cannon get great results.
To get 5% pir in a foam cannon youd need roughly 500ml as most medium flowing pressure washers take 10L to empty a 1L foam cannon. In other words a ton of product is required.
I used this video to calculate my PIR for my setup: ua-cam.com/video/fZ_dyRofcHg/v-deo.html And I use my MJJC Foam Cannon Pro for the Bilt Hamber snow foams, so it might differ compared to my MTM PF22.2. I won't start doing calculations for all my foam cannons lol. In my case, for 5% PIR, I need 345ml of snow foam and 255 ml of water (600 ml total solution, or 20oz) for my setup.
I wonder if it would make a difference if they were sprayed on the panel as a foam. It would probably would be a pain to glean the foam cannon out and go to the next product...
Hi Pan - so if I use the Bilt Hamber auto foam, will it strip any sealant, like c2v3 gtechniq? If so, would I reapply c2v3? Or just use beadmaker? Or both?
You wouldn’t have the use for BH for every weekly wash. If you use it weekly, use it at a lower 2% PIR and it shouldn’t strip ceramic based protections.
Nice. It would be interesting to see if there is a difference if its foamed vs not foamed (like u used). Also it would be interesting to see if a snowfoam cleans better befor or after a pre rinse. Aaanywho awsome video as usual.
@@DKMFan85 no, reason why to put it on by foam is that foam stay on paint and don’t dry as fast (and of course it looks better :)) alsa these higher PH product you can use straight from sprayer and have same outcome
@@Booczech7 The popping bubbles also add some slight agitation to break down dirt and pull away from the paint. I hardly ever spray foam my own car though. I can zip around it in 20 minutes with something like ONR and then use a SiO2 or graphene detail spray as a drying aid and maintenance for my coating. Only need to do a full clean maybe twice per year. People tend to overthink a coated car sometimes.
@@DKMFan85 i tried that, foam vs spray, no visible difference. (Cold weather, possible to sit on paint about 2 minutes) Of course you can use ONR if you like it but it is not perfect as many people try to believe, I would not do it on car with great or near perfect paint, it just not safest method, period… ONR is better for most people (who are not able to do proper technique water wash) if you dont want to pre wash and use qood quality wash mit and shampoo then yes ONR is better because you need just bucket one bottle of product and sponge. Thats how it is I test it, I really want to ONR to succeed because it looks great on paper but in real it is not safest method and I want that for my near pefect paint and treat my costumers cars. :)
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next. Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further. When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
A pH neutral car shampoo was used here. Gsf. It's both a snow foam and bucket shampoo for hand washing. If that's what you meant. If that's not what you meant, I have no idea what you're talking about then.
Unless there's a traditional coating applied, I'd be hesistant to use the 3 alkaline products. I don't see how they wouldn't degrade a wax or sealant. I hope Yvan Lacroix sees this. He claims snowfoans do zero good. Maybe some, but not all. What dilution did you use GSF?
I would not recommend using high pH pre-wash snow foams on regular waxes and sealants. Those don't have the same great chemical resistance that true ceramic coatings have. If you do repeated use of high alkaline shampoos on waxes and sealants, you will eventually break them down and strip them off. Higher pH snow foams are more intended for use on ceramic coated vehicles, or before doing the entire prep, decon and polishing and application of a paint protectant. I used the recommended dilutions for all snow foams. What ever the label says.
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🇺🇸 For people in USA:
Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam: bit.ly/3JB0HKZ
Bilt Hamber Touch-Less: bit.ly/44nTnxn
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Kranzle 1122TST pressure washer: bit.ly/3d5kZeK
Mosmatic gun and wand solution: bit.ly/3ovIcPA
🇨🇦 For people in Canada:
Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam: bit.ly/3JB0HKZ
Bilt Hamber Touch-Less: bit.ly/36oJbe0
CarPro Lift: bit.ly/35ZQfhy
Koch Chemie Gsf: bit.ly/3MZwDL6
MJJC Foam Cannon Pro: amzn.to/3qduFgk
Kranzle 1122TST pressure washer: bit.ly/3d5kZeK
Mosmatic gun and wand solution: bit.ly/3ovIcPA
🇬🇧 For people in the UK:
Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam: bit.ly/3Cj4w6w
Bilt Hamber Touch-Less: bit.ly/3Rg0fVV
CarPro Lift: bit.ly/3cc9PtR
Koch Chemie Gsf: bit.ly/3dL4zhl
MJJC Foam Cannon Pro: bit.ly/3A7Bpk1
Kranzle 1122TST pressure washer: bit.ly/3d5kZeK
Mosmatic gun and wand solution: bit.ly/3ovIcPA
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I wonder how well KCX GSF + greenstar would’ve worked for this test 🤔
Bonjour Pan, est-ce possible de faire cette vidéo en français ?
Merci
La version française était disponible au même moment. Voici: ua-cam.com/video/cNDIy3iUu3M/v-deo.html
@@PanTheOrganizer en effet je n’ai pas fait attention. Merci pan pour les explications très bien détaillée.
Comme quoi le prélavages est très important.
Je trouve quand même bizarre que les prelavage a fort pH n’ont pas été plus efficace que le gsf
This time I will directly order through the links instead of my Amazon account. Things are going good for my detail business. First, I found a chiropractor who designed exercises and stretches before and after detailing a car. At sixty-four years of age, I’m not groaning exiting my bed the next morning. Two, I’m using my 2013 Subaru Outback with 225,000 miles as a model during weekend rideshare driving. I get a least one client if I’m in the suburban areas (few own cars in Chicago). These cars tend to higher end and I require a very good pre-wash. It looks Bilt Hamber has what I’m looking for. Thanks for the video.
Curious if the results would’ve been different if it was the actual foam on there instead of the liquid version.
Same. Love Pan and the channel but a bit weird to test snow foam without foam. Maybe a door each?
I did think that was a little odd that it was just the liquid version like it would be for normal car soap
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
Thats what i was thinking it’s not foam if it’s not snowfoam lol
I would like to see the results from foaming as well.
Would be interesting to see it compared to regular car soap, ONR, and an apc like power clean. Lots of people foam with just car soap, onr would be interesting, and powerclean is often used for the same purpose in rinseless and is cheaper per gallon.
That isn't necessary, I can just tell you. ONR doesn't foam, at all. To use an apc as a foam, you need to get a hand pump foaming sprayer so you don't dilute it down beyond being effective through your pressure washer. I would strongly suggest a nonfoaming pump sprayer for your apc so it can be laid down quickly and not having to pull a trigger 300x. You would want to foam your wheel cleaner, as you dont need full strength most of the time. You would be happier without foaming (significantly diluting) your apc to use as a prerinse. However, you can always add an apc to the soap in your foam cannon to make it more aggressive, without buying a separate product. It works with other brands too, not just koch chemie, but kcx actually suggests this method and gives you directions on the bottle on how much to use.
Furthermore, you really should avoid those cheap, harsh degreasers on your car's finish, unless you're degreasing an engine block. The Family Dollar stores have an even stronger and cheaper degreaser they sell, the name slips my mind. But get yourself a quality apc (not a super strong degreaser) that is meant for use on the exterior of vehicles. It won't be the cheapest available, but will work better and safer.
@@scottmattern482 I think you're concentrating too much on the foaming part. I'm more interested in the dirt breakdown effects. I'm asking for a more generalized "prespray" comparison -- snow foam is just one type of prespray. I know ONR doesn't foam, but it does emulsify and break down dirt, so it could be a contender. I mentioned powerclean because it's suitable for exterior use (aside from glass) and can be diluted and foamed. Powerclean is a quality apc and not cheap or harsh.
@@ryeguy01 my fault, I thought you were asking how to foam them.
I used to work for a company that made commercial and industrial cleaning products. Everything we made that was designed to be used in a foaming device didn't work very well without one. So I too would love to see a comparison where these products are used when foamed, though they should only work better than they did this way, lol
Also, just to clarify, you wouldn't want to use an alkaline snow foam on any kind of traditionally waxed surface, is that correct?
These are meant to be foamed, so that's how they should be tested. One of the purposes of the foam is to allow the product to work longer. So the results could be different.
Unlss you were intending to reapply the wax, I'd say you're correct? Obviously, it depends on the alkalinity of the foam, but most alkaline products will remove most pure waxes, especially if you're also going to be shampooing. Products like Turtlewax Ceramic and Graphene Wax, Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Wax, and Fusso Coat will survive a few washes with alkalines, especially the Fusso Coat! Basically, any ceramic infused waxes are my preferred option for waxing my own car if I'm going to be washing every week.
Correct. Repeated use of high pH snow foams or shampoos on regular waxes or sealants will degrade and eventually strip them off. Ceramic coatings have a much higher chemical resistance so no worries there.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
I have been working long enough with these snow foams and snow foams in general to tell you that the results would be the same as far as which one cleans best.
But you are also free to go ahead and do your own tests at home, on your vehicle and see for yourself by using products you want. Like I used to do before even starting my own channel. No need to wait for a UA-camr to do the tests. ;)
Hey Pan. I was an avid AngelWax snow foam fan. I switched to Koch Gfs and my experience is that it’s not aggressive on the sealant base I lay on my car. I also get good slickness when I do my contact wash. I have come to realize that there is no one way to wash and clean your car. Sometimes you have to change the method and sometimes the products you use. Till the next one.
It's obvious on camera the 1st Bilt Hammer touchless was the clear winner.
I'd be nice to see this test repeated with the products foamed up on different panels, maybe next time.
Don't you mean Autofoam? The 1st test spot is autofoam, 2nd is touchless 😁
@@afonsofreitas3595 Tomato Toma'to 🤷
@@thenotoriousrvh6091 Just mencioning it as they have slightly different PH levels, just that! They're both awesome 😁
@@thenotoriousrvh6091 😂
@@interceptor7905 Hell they're all touchless in a sprayer 🤣🤣
Jon has such a great channel. VERY informative. Pan and jon and epic car show channel are my go to channels for anything detailing.
Yes and he's a great guy too. I interviewed him in this video: ua-cam.com/video/YwLd79AJzGs/v-deo.html
Agreed, love them both!
Thank you Very much! Nice to see my name being mentioned 🙏
@@epicautomotivedetailing love your channel too brother!
As soon as I saw the title and then the BH products I knew Jon put you up to this :) Glad to see his results duplicated by someone in different conditions. I'm a big fan of removing as much dirt in the pre-wash stage as possible.
I just wished he'd uses different products and made his own video because we've seen John do it there was no need to do it again, it really proved nothing more than a commercial for BH products IMHO.
Thanks!
Really Paul? Leave it to the internet to always find a way to complain about things. I used Gsf and Lift in this test, which Jon didn't use. And again, it was to show this to my viewers, which don't necessarily follow Jon, so I thought it was important to share this info with my audience and also show the results in different climates and conditions.
And given from the popularity of the video and the positive comments so far, this video is a success. It's all about sharing knowledge and information from different sources and having fun testing things. It's a thing of passion.
I wish you would appreciate the efforts that go into producing these videos. It's super hard work to produce and edit content.
Also, when other creators use my videos as an inspiration to reproduce something for their audiences, I'm honoured and take it as a sign that I'm doing something right instead of being mad about it. It's normal that great creators inspire other great creators. As long as credit is given where credit is due (as I gave Jon credit in this video), it's all fine by me.
why do this in a liquid state and not foam it... if you're going to test products use it for what it is intended to do.
Exactly... When the foam is diluted is it going to clean as well... I don't think so
It would be very hard to control this test by foaming it on. Anyhow, when foamed it would perform even better, as the bubbles created increase the contact surface and when they burst you're having more surfactants do some scrubbing work for you.
I get your point but adding foaming to this test would simply add confound. Always better to minimize the number of variables. But a good follow up test would be something like BH Touchless foamed vs unfoamed. Or GSF foamed vs unfoamed.
I dunno I used car pro lift as a snow foam and it didn't do shit lol. I'm positive I used the right dilution.
@@akiralee1192 I foam with regular car soap and I see a difference. It softens the dirt better than a fast pre rinse because it sticks to the paint longer
Pan unrelated question but I don’t see any video’s about air tools do you use them? Tools like blow out guns with chemical Container or with out. What one is better? With plastic tip or new metal tip with bearings.. Guns like the Tornador is this a tool we should have? Maybe this could be a video for you if you have not done one.
I don't have an air compressor so I don't use air tools.
Hi Pan, doesn't this do a lot of damage to unpainted plastics, glass coatings and trim because of the very high pH? From working at a dealership, trim often gets badly stained due to extremely low or high pH as far as I am aware.
Thanks for pointing this out. I hope Pan can clear this up.
Yes I had my unpainted plastic grill badly damaged by a detail shop..something with the foam.
I'm guessing you're talking about the black side window plastic trims and black tape door frames including mirrors etc..
I've only seen these stained if the product isn't diluted correctly or its applied to warm or hot cars ..
When i worked at our local Holden dealer we only had that problem once when the yard rat decided to used a spray bottle filled with full strength car wash diluted with interior trim cleaner to spray on a dirty car to loosen the dirt.
Pre wash foam won't hurt your car if you're using it correctly.
@@paulreichelt1259 thnx for your reply. I am still not completely convinced. I have loads of this kind of staining and in most cases due to, what i think, too strong chemicals in car washes.
If used appropriately, there are no worries to be had. Use in the shade, on cool surfaces at the recommended dilutions. These are meant to be used as pre-washes on the entire vehicle, meaning it's ok to use on all surfaces: paint, wheels, glass, tires, plastics, etc. As long as you don't spray in direct sunlight, and don't let them dry on the surface (especially for the higher pH snow foams).
And no they won't harm ceramic coatings, as coatings have a much higher chemical resistance compared to regular waxes/sealants. And you don't need to use the higher pH snow foams for every weekly wash. Once very other month or in the spring (after winter) to remove road salts, traffic film and road grime that mask the coating's performance and characteristics. For regular washes, a pH neutral snow foam is more than enough.
Respect to you for giving Jon credit for this video. I watched his video and it was very useful but I do appreciate seeing your review with snow foam products available in Canada.
I agree, a class act from Pan, on the shout out to Jon.
Thanks!
Thank you I appreciate it! I like to give credit where credit is due. Jon is a friend of mine and great person!
@@PanTheOrganizer Jon and you are fantastic resources for the car care enthusiasts out there, with always interesting and informative content.
Pan I purchased the Bilt Hamber auto foam. I came back from a 1000-mile motorcycle trip here in the USA and needed to wash all those miles of bugs off my bike. I tried the auto foam and foamed the entire bike, especially the rims as you know how dirty they get with all the brake and road dust. I let it dwell for 5 min and then rinsed it off. I was amazed at how clean the wheels and rims were and this was without even hand washing them. I actually did NOT have to wash the rims but of course, did wash the rest of the bike. Did an amazing job. My foam cannon is the MTM PF22. I had done the panel ratio bucket test on 1000ml and it came out a little under 500 ml of product. almost 50% of water to product. I'm wondering if this sounds right or is a 50/50 ratio seems high to you? When I was finished I had 500ml of water/product left in my foam cannon. So obviously I do not need a 1000 ml in my cannon. I'm wondering if I had to much product or was I pretty much in the ball park? Thanks Pan keep up the AWESOME work you do....
Yeah that sounds about right. In my setup, I use 11.7 oz of BH and 8.6 oz of water for a total of 20 oz in the foam cannon. That’s for the 5% PIR
There is a video done by Autocarehq where she makes a convincing argument that using a pump sprayer instead of a foam cannon might make more sense in products such as reset and auto foam, which are not known for their foam as much as their ability to clean. She postulates that the pump sprayer will require less of the product and do just a good a job at actually cleaning the exterior of the car as a foam cannon. I think I’ll give it a try, but I thought that maybe the great Pan the Organizer might just want to try it, as well. Happy Easter.
Yes using a manual pump sprayer/foamer will allow you to have a better control over dilution ratios, that's a given. Common sense. But using a foam cannon is much more efficient and quick. So it's a question of what you really want. But both work super well.
Here in Sweden we usually use a petroleum based degreaser during the winter which removes salt and stains from tar and asphalt. Many people apply the petroleum based degreaser first from the door handles and down and then spray snow foam over the whole care. Wait 5-10 minutes depending on the temperature and then rinse the whole car.
What is the name of the degreaser you use?
Thanks! Yes, now I'm wondering what your thoughts are on pre rinsing vs going straight to foam first. Looking forward to that video!
Brian of Apex did it by foaming and the Bilt Hamber touchless worked quite a bit better than the Auto-foam.
I still pre rinse because i feel the water from the pre rinse allows the foam to penetrate the grime and dirt etc easier, it's helping to begin the emulsification process..
I have honestly tried both on my daily driver and haven't found any real difference between grime and dirt removal but I'd rather pre rinse first to remove the loose stuff rather than have more gunk floating around in the foam potentially getting trapped in the moulding or somewhere it could come out later during the washing process...
Remember the car John did was just dusty or sandy not "winter" dirty ..
You do what you feel is right don't let these guys influence you because there's is no right or wrong way...
You will soon find out next Saturday on my channel. ;) (But yes if your car is heavily caked in mud or heavy dirt, please pre-rinse first. Common sense is crucial here).
@@PanTheOrganizerPan, somewhere I read/viewed that water alone in the pre-rinse from the pressure would actually push the grit, having it scratch! And, as you’ve demoed here, the soap, alone, in fact DOES lift the loose grime.
Best, it was said, to foam and, then, pre-rinse; then doing a regular foam, again, before the contact washing. There, it was up to the quality of the mitts (curved, as one pushes) to slop the foam and dirt ahead…. So, a big, sloppy, really soaked mitt mattered. It all made sense to me!
GREAT, great video. Thank you!
Linda
Pan! Wowowowow! Where are my sunglasses? Hands down, the BH on the left. It just shone underneath. Never heard of it, but now I’m a BELIEVER! I was gonna go with the GSF or Adams’ MegaFoam, purely because of what I’d learned about reducing the dreaded spotting. Not anymore…. Thanks SO, so, so, so very, very much. Linda
(Now, (for those of us not having outdoor spigot water softeners:) I’m curious if there’s a safe bucket additive to possibly soften the water and frothy-up the bubbly soap to, perhaps, help reduce water spots, too?)
First and foremost Pan, again, what transpire the most from your videos is your honesty. This is so appreciated. You have all my respect my dear fellow Montrealer! ;) Regarding snow foams, yes I originally saw Jon's test and it was revealing to say the least. I never used Bilt Hamber products as they seem to be more popular and easily sourced on the other side of the pond, but I use CarPro Lift in winter in a 5:1 ratio, followed by my favorite car shampoo ever the classic blue one from Adam's and this is for me the most effective wash stage for winter that I found. In the summer I use Mega Foam as a pre wash stage and also the classic blue or Reset in the contact wash stage and it's just the most satisfying for my preference. To me, honestly, even if the pre-wash stage did nothing I would still do it because it brings joy to my heart. I just happen to absolutely love blanketing my cars with incredibly thick foam and great smell, it's just part of my regimen and as stupid as it might sound I would do it even if it did nothing. There's just that therapeutic part for me detailing my cars, even if I don't have a magnificent 992 Turbo S which to be honest has been for a couple of years my dream car in Gentian Blue. Anyway, thank you again for your superb work and your incredible honesty and transparency Pan. This absolutely deserves the highest respect.
Thanks for the kind words and for your support! Much appreciated. What car do you drive by the way?
Bilt hamber did a excellent job. Currently I'm useing carpro lift. Will be switching to BH when done. I don't mind paying when u get top notch results. Thanks pan! 🏆👊 🇨🇦
Thanks!
GsF is my go to. I add 3 Oz of Green Star to the foam cannon for that extra bite. Not a fan of Bilt Hamber . Their snow foams are watery. I like a thick foam
Watery with the purpose of gliding the encapsulated dirt to go down.
The Bilt Hamber snow foams were designed to be more runny, and less "foamy". It's on purpose. They do have more cleaning power as shown here. Foam doesn't equal more cleaning power... It's just nice visually. But certainly not the only criteria for selecting a good snow foam.
Can you explain the Bilt Hamber PIR and exactly how much product you used?
ua-cam.com/video/GTQfYGGJjnY/v-deo.html
Too long to explain by text, but there are a bunch of tutorials on how to calculate the PIR for your specific foam cannon and pressure washer setup. Here's the method I used: ua-cam.com/video/fZ_dyRofcHg/v-deo.html
@@PanTheOrganizer Thank you. I appreciate you and what you do. It's doubtful that I will be using BH anytime soon.
👍🏻
All this time I’m watching and commenting on your videos. I’m just realizing I’m not subscribed to your channel. That has been remedied. Liked and subscribed.
Since you subbed, let me officially welcome you to the Pan The Organizer family! What's your favourite video on my channel so far?
I use Bilt Hamber Touchless before every wash......on a dry car so the dry film/dirt absorbs the cleaning chemicals properly and it does a fantastic job, washing after feels pointless. Great product although its more of a wet slushy foam than other products.
Could you lay down strips of foam with the Marolex Foamer and do this test again. Feel like a snow foam needs to foam to really give an indication of cleaning power.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
Interesting test. I suspect the cleaning properties would be enhanced by applying with a snow foam cannon and pressure washer. Even H20 will remove some of the dirt when applied with pressure.
They would work better because of the bubbles applying new cleaner ti the surface. No way to get water to foam though and he did rinse it with the pressure washer.
Correct! It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
Finally! This will be eye opener for lot of people who use foam completly wrong, this is right purpose to use it, like a pre wash! :)
;)
Bilt Hamber has a great cleaning products , Auto Foam is my favourite , powerfull and safe.
Yes they're
Thanks for the Bill-Hammer info.
@@keithlutz7000 Bilt Hamber
@@1stfrompuertorico568 spellcheck got me!
@@keithlutz7000 😄😄👍same thing has happened to me 😄
I've been told never to use alkaline snow foam on ceramic coatings but you say PH neutral is more of a lubricant for contact washes so I'm confused what I should actually clean my ceramic coated car with?
I'm curious if this test can also be applied to waterless washes. I'm a fan of waterless washes, as I tend to use them once a week between more detailed maintenance washes (I live under a flight path for a big airport and a private airport). Can you run a test using different waterless washes? As they all do state that they encapsulate dirt for a safer washing experience.
Hey Pan would you consider making a video on your thoughts on pre washing with an APC.
in place of a snow foam*
You mean pre-rinsing with an APC? I wouldn't recommend that for each regular wash. Only when needed, example before doing a full decon wash to apply a new coating, or working on a super dirty customer vehicle that needs old grime and traffic film removed, etc.
But yes APC pre-rinsing does work.
I see thanks for getting back to me Pam
My pleasure.
I just finished my carpro lift and recently purchase a gallon of GSF. My question is should I rinse the car first or spray the foam first ?
Also, I’m not sure if this is a good idea, use GSF when the car is already full of pollen after being washed 2 or 4 days ago. & don’t have time for a full car wash.
I will have a video on that next Saturday so stay tuned.
Won’t do much with heavy dirt build up on the paint unless you do a contact wash, but it’s always worth it for every wash considering how much lubrication it provides with a thick foam. Once you start using it you will never go back
When washing, better to rinse then foam let sit, then rinse, oam again and agitate?
Or is rinse then foam let sit foe a bit and then agitate okay to do or should you really foam 2x? Using turtle wax slick n slide by the way
You will see in my video Saturday. Stay tuned! :)
For me, the difference between a high pH vs a neutral isn't enough of a difference. As someone with limited time, and resources, I'll probably just stick to a pH neutral foam and then a contact wash. Great testing. Thank you
There are instances where a high pH pre-wash (snow foam) followed by an acidic soap hand wash (bucket wash) can help to remove organic and inorganic contamination that a simple pH neutral soap can't do (traffic film, and mineral deposits are two of those contaminations that a pH neutral soap has a harder time with).
But in general, for weekly washes, a pH neutral soap is all you need. I pull out the alkaline and acidic soaps every other month or so for a deeper clean, and to "revive" ceramic coatings that can get clogged (properties masked) by road film and mineral accumulation.
@ more good tips. Thank you
I use BH Autofoam. it's excellent. snowfoam makes the contact wash so easy and quick. it's uncanny how clean my mitt is. I also use it in a Pump Sprayer and works great. may try the Touchless next time.
Thanks for sharing
Personally i think snow foams are not necessary. I have tried many of them and i've found that they are doing the same job as a really good rinse with a pressure washer. So i rinse first with my pressure washer, then i use ph neutral shampoo in a foam cannon to cover the hole car. I dont rinse it. I use a two bucket method with the same shampoo on my wash mitt while at the same time the car is coved with foam from the foam cannon. This method works for me every time and i only have one shampoo in my arsenal!
What ever makes you happy, as long as the results are there, there are many ways to do things. But for me, pre-wash with a proper snow foam is important, and we showed here with the higher cleaning ones why. ;)
I like using the Koch Chemie GSF since I am always going to do a contact wash afterwards. The closer I can keep all my chemicals to 7 on the scale the better. I will consider the CarPro Snow Foam if ever doing a snow foam without a post contact wash.
I would never just use a pre-wash without following up with a contact wash. Hence why snow foams are referred to as "pre-wash snow foams".
Can alkaline snow foam damage paint? I using public pressure washer once per week and they using alkaline foam. I know it is not best for protection layer but what about paint/clear coat?
It won’t damage paint unless you constantly hammer the paint with it for every wash. Using a high pH soap for weekly washes is not needed. And if you have a wax or regular sealant those shampoos will eventually break them down ans strip that protection off.
Higher pH are good for bugs & grease. To remove road salt I use an acidic foam (VER-TECH Salt Shield)
I guess that means if using sio2 sealants / wax we would have to use the less effective PH neutral snow foams / shampoos?
No. You can use higher pH snow foams on ceramic protection, but just don't use them every week. For regular weekly washes, all that is needed is a pH neutral shampoo and snow foam. Once in a while, like at the beginning of spring, you can use the higher pH snow foams and acid based shampoos for deeper cleaning, grime removal and mineral deposit removal.
See my ultimate spring cleaning guide: ua-cam.com/video/oTaFE_p2OAw/v-deo.htmlsi=uhrksJweoOe9hDl5
Is it true that using a neutral PH foam (for your normal washes) extends the life of your ceramic/graphene coating vs using a higher PH regularly? That’s why I picked GSF over some of the others.
Correct. Using high pH snow foams too often can start to weaken the protection. You would use a higher pH foam or shampoo when you feel the hydrophobics are starting to weaken, or to remove road grim and accumulated traffic film once every other month like in the spring.
Watch my video on a full spring deep cleaning here: ua-cam.com/video/oTaFE_p2OAw/v-deo.html
how safe is bilt hamber touchless or carpro lift on clearcoat. can this cause issues to the clearcoat over time?
Absolutely zero worries. Both are clear coat safe.
Can a pressure container that I use for plants work with foam , or do they sell cans of foam, so I do not need a sprayer like yours.
Snow foams are mainly used for foam cannons with a pressure washer. You could use a pump sprayer, but it would have to be a model capable of foaming chemicals.
Either this model: bit.ly/41MqPug
Or this model: bit.ly/3VfwcAs
You can see what kind of foam it generates in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/7ZkGf-IVs4k/v-deo.html
Another alternative is to buy a foam gun, which attaches to a regular garden hose (if you don't have a pressure washer). Here's my video showing the differences between a foam cannon and foam gun: ua-cam.com/video/rJPk8nR8Ib0/v-deo.html
@@PanTheOrganizer Do they sell cans that spray ?
It seems that the hammer foam was the only one that cleaned without leaving a film behind so I would lean towards that one. It would provide a better perspective if we actually saw what the foam does when applied in a foam state. Nice work Pan, Thanks
I have many videos where I use it. And an upcoming one where you’ll see its cleaning power while foamed.
Pre wash Snow foam should be done before or after spraying with water?
Both methods are accepted, up to you to decide what works best with your conditions and products. Some like to pre-rinse, then foam, then rinse, then contact wash. Others like to foam, rinse, foam, wash.
One of John's opinions that I've really taken to is that there is no need to pre rinse vehicles as it dilutes snow foam, which seems contrary to most other content creators. Could you explain why this is?
I always do it to a dry car 👍🏻
@@jonnybravo3055 it seems like a huge waste of water as well to rinse before applying soap that's supposed to lift up the dirt anyways
Saw that video too, tested on my car last weekend and applying it to a dry car was visibly better, especially on the dirty sills.
I used to rinse, but discovered I get better results applying foam on a DRY car.
Wet car body means more water added to the foam mixture. BH puts PIR instruction. The other thing is you will scratch the paint by just pre wash with water. If you pre foam in dry paint then the chemical will work to encapsulate the dirt and more safe for you to do follow up rinse the encapsulated dirt with water.
Does the higher PH not remove any ceramic or protective coatings?
No they won't harm ceramic coatings, as coatings have a much higher chemical resistance compared to regular waxes/sealants. And you don't need to use the higher pH snow foams for every weekly wash. Once very other month or in the spring (after winter) to remove road salts, traffic film and road grime that mask the coating's performance and characteristics. For regular washes, a pH neutral snow foam is more than enough.
This vehicle was protected by a graphene ceramic coating by the way. ;). As is my own Porsche, and you'll soon see these snow foams used on my own car too. Stay tuned.
Salut Pan , je suis sur la rive sud de Montréal et j’ai besoin de ton opinion. J’ai une protection céramique et j utilise un snowfoam de prélavage durant l été sauf pour cet hiver, j’utiliserais une pompe manuel et un boyau d arrosage à jardin pour faire mon pré lavage. Quel produit je devrait prendre?
Interesting video. Will the higher PH foam tested remove much wax/ sealant?
Id love to know this as well. Or if it is NOT recommended to use a hight (alkali) PH number on waxed or ceramic coatings like a car prepared with Meguiars Spray Hybrid Wax
If used often, yes high alkaline pH (or acid pH) products will eventually break down older waxes and paint sealants, as those don't have the same great chemical resistance that coatings have.
Hi pan I use bilt hamber auto foam. But when the car is really dirty I start with bilt Hamber surfex hd at a low mix and spray the foam straight after then rinse both off.
Awesome scientific analysis. I stopped using snow foams after Ivan La Croixs perspective on using them. I’m convinced now that they truly work! Interesting how different detailers opinions can be. However science is convincing proof. Thanks Pan!
Same here. I think his claim that a pressure washer would do the same thing a snow foam would is clearly proven false here. I'll still be rinseless washing, but the snow foam definitely has its use for heavily soiled vehicles
@@batvon39 ,It appears Ivan La Croixmakes grandiose assertions regarding "rinseless washes, however, anyone who does them soon realizes that it's incomparable to using a pressure washer or the 2 bucket method. Even Matt from Obsessed Garage points this out in several of his analytic videos. I am so please that Pan has finally debunked this misconception.
@@rivakhoffman4825 I got skeptical when I watched a video of Ivan doing a rinseless wash, and when asked if he's not scratching the paint, the response was "the paint is going to get scratched regardless" lol
Question for you - if the main point of the gsf is to provide lubrication - this shouldn’t be washed off before the contact wash, correct? Or should I be snowfoaming once and rinse to get some grime off and then snow foam again for the contact wash?
I feel you can with either or but also depends how dirty the car is
I usually just spray down with the pressure washer, snow foam, allow a few minutes and then contact wash. If the car's really filthy in the winter then would wash off and reapply but I'm not convinced ph neutral snow foams really do much
You could foam, rinse, foam and hand wash.
What snow foam would you recommend in Arizona during the summer months. I would be worried about leaving foam on my car when its 100 F (37 C) for 5 minutes. I would think it would rune my paint or graphine coating.
Don't let snow foam dry on the paint that's for sure. If you are working outside, work in the shade and never during noon hours when the sun is at its brightest and hottest. If you have no choice but to work in direct sunlight, stick with a pH neutral snow foam like the Adam's Mega Foam or Koch Chemie Gsf.
Does it make a difference if just pouring on panel than applying it in a snow foamer (hand foamer) and a snow foamer in a lance gun ?
Another query is which is better to use a hand foamer ( axel 2000 hand foamer ) v lance foamer ( mjjc foamer)
As in a lance snow foamer it gets diluted as using..............?????
Could you do a test which if any difference which is better?👍👍👍👍
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
To answer your other question. Using a foaming pump sprayer gets you better control of the dilution for sure, compared to a foam cannon. But using a foam cannon is quicker and more efficient.
@@PanTheOrganizer thanks for explaining cheers
I used touchless bilt hamber at 5/1 ratio in a mjjc v2 foam lance at full foam adjustment but didn't take much of paintwork (using nilfisk e145 pressure washer)
I dried it after with a car dryer but only seems to have taken maybe only 10% dirt off
What do you do or recommend for cleaning the underside and potential undercoat. In Pennsylvania they use an absurd amount of salt and chemicals even if the winter isn't overly harsh.
ua-cam.com/video/2fOEaNOGTFI/v-deo.html
Clearly the first one was the winner however, it appears as long as you're using a Ph neutral foam that you're still in good shape
I agree. GSF became my favorite a few months ago.
@@keithlutz7000 I've been using Adam's mega foam however I would like to try some koch products
pH neutral snow foams are perfect for weekly and regular washes. Once in a while, especially after winter or when you see the hydrophobics diminish, that's when you would pull out these deeper cleaning snow foams like CarPro Lift and Bilt Hamber.
@@PanTheOrganizer I’m personally and slowly building my arsenal lol this stuff is all on the “to do” list
Pan which is best ceramic metal oxide or graphene coating?
All my favourite products are in my yearly awards video ... Please stop asking the same questions.
I think the Auto Foam was really the winner. When you touched the panel with your finger it was the cleanest.
Yes Bilt Hamber was the best for cleaning.
Would you use the alkaline snow foams in a regular wash frequency? Or more of a once per month routine?
I wouldn't use high pH snow foams for every wash. Perhaps once every other month, or as needed depending on the level of grime and traffic film contamination.
@@PanTheOrganizer Got it. Thanks for the info!
My pleasure Riley. How did you discover my channel by the way?
Welcome to my channel. You discovered one of the biggest car detailing channels on UA-cam as we surpassed 850,000 subscribers and 106 million views! I have been detailing for 25 years and I love to share my knowledge and passion with my viewers.
You found the right channel to help you learn everything about detailing.
@@PanTheOrganizer I found your channel after I bought my Stinger GT late 2021 and became more curious about detailing. Had my car ceramic coated with owner’s pride and then bought some of their products to continue to maintain it!
Hi Pan, can you recommended a mask for detailing? I have worn a respirator but that is a little to much for me.
So what about maintenance washes. Bh alkaline washes for big cleans and after the big clean something ph neutral for maintenance washes?
Correct!
Hopefully you'll see this. The previous owner of my car had it ceramic coated. I'm not sure what kind of coating. Can I use Carpro Lift to help gain back the coating? I'm currently using Auto Fanatic Snow Foam as it PH neutral. Thank you
Hi Austin. It's hard to say, as I don't know what coating was applied, how it was applied, how long ago it was applied, etc. There are many unknowns here hehe.
Watch my spring cleaning maintenance wash to see how I like to restore the hydrophobic properties of ceramic coatings:
Full blown more expensive method: ua-cam.com/video/oTaFE_p2OAw/v-deo.html
Budget friendly method: ua-cam.com/video/GIVDATYIPSc/v-deo.html
If those methods don't work, the coating is most likely gone or on the end of its lifespan, and at that point it would be advisable to do a fresh application. Wash, decon, machine polishing, IPA, and then apply your choice of ceramic coating.
@@PanTheOrganizer thank you Pan! It’s supposed to be an “8 year” coating. It’s doing alright besides on the lower rocker areas! The whole car needs rock chips professionally fixed before I redo the coating!
Do you know what brand it is?
I’d be very interested to see a comparison between prewash with a snow foam vs a pre rinse with rinseless
I made one of pre-rinsing vs pre-treating here: ua-cam.com/video/ukL-3LBOSmU/v-deo.html
You are the man! Ty for all you do for thr community
Thanks Fernando!! What country are you watching from? Cheers from Canada! :)
Southern CA, USA ☀️
Koch Chemie held its own against the higher ph BH. I'd take the GSF anyway.
Another great comparison video, Pan! Just curious if the higher Ph level from these soaps would strip polymer based top coats like P&S Bead Maker or ceramic based top coats significantly faster. (Not actual multiple years ceramic coating)
What is your go to all purpose cleaner what's good for fabric stain removers im new want to know all good stuff
All my favourite products are in my popular yearly awards video here: ua-cam.com/video/LkD22UGujmw/v-deo.html
Wear do you get the touchless Snow foam? My Truck never gets out of the garage in winter summer gets bug juice and railroad dust in the garage as we live 2 houses and a road from the railroad tracks. Is going to get its first wash since repainted & clear coat and simonize ceramic coating profanely over the Paint.
I can attest that the ceramic coating almost cleans itself had a lot of bug juice and was caught out in a bad thunderstorm drove another 75 miles after the thunderstorm and truck was dry, almost 100% clean. I still have dust from trains inside the garage from winter and a little bug juice. I am trying to keep scratches from happening from cleaning!
Links to all the products in the description under the video.
Hi Sir should I rinse it first with water before foaming?
I’ve had good luck with gsf and adding a little Koch green star if the car is really dirty.
I think you should really do this test on a unprotected car. This would point to people who just want have a clean car and no further. I haven’t washed my car in 30k miles and I have bought auto foam specially to see how well it will do. I’ll be doing a rinse and foam and a foam on the other side. There is currently no protection what so ever.
Great video and very informative
Hi Ryan. As this is a detailing channel and most of my viewers have a ceramic coating, this test was most appropriate. Most of my viewers are detailing enthusiasts and would never have unprotected paint or not wssh their car for 30K miles.
But perhaps an idea for a future video. 👍🏻
Would it have cleaned less if sprayed in as a foam and not poured on.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
I’m thinking about trying one of the BH products in my Marolux Axel Foamer. But I’m unsure how to determine the mix ratio since it’s not a traditional foamer. What amount would you recommend I add to 1 gallon of water?
You would need to follow the instructions on the rear label.
Nice work. Why does a higher PH remove more dirt? Like water, I would think the higher the better meaning less acid or removal of dirt. Slightly confused.
Not quite. The higher pH will help soften and break down more traffic film and road grime. That oily film that masks coatings. But sometimes, a more acid pH (like CarPro Descale) is also needed to remove things like mineral deposits (hard water, rain). More on that topic in an upcoming spring cleaning maintenance tutorial. ;)
Great Video Pan, but its when you mix them with water in the foam cannon they do not work as well.
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation and that also applies a fresh new cleaner on the surface, which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
@@PanTheOrganizer Thank you Pan
Pan, would Lift be better for a consistent maintenance washes vs the Bilt Hamber products?
Bilt Hamber cleans more (better), but for regular washes I wouldn't use the 5% PIR, I would use 2%. At that ratio, it's as good as Lift.
can the BH higher Ph be used as a weekly wash?
I wouldn’t recommend that. Unless you use it at a very low 2% PIR perhaps.
Finally a video that answers my question. I have a Canam X3 side by side and I was curious I’d detergents make much of a difference compared to just straight pressure washing. Thanks for the info.
Thanks Kevin. How did you discover my channel by the way?
Welcome to my channel. You discovered one of the biggest car detailing channels on UA-cam as we surpassed 965,000 subscribers and we have over 130 million views! I have been detailing for 26 years and I love to share my knowledge and passion with my viewers.
You found the right channel to help you learn everything about detailing.
@@PanTheOrganizer I think I typed a search asking if foam cannons really work? I was curious if detergents are worth the extra money to clean a SXS. Some companies advertise touch less and make it look awesome in the videos but is what they show a reality. Actual touch is the only success I’ve ever had but that’s challenging when cleaning the surfaces of a side by side
Hey Pan. Curious on your opinion. I have a black M4 thats coated with carpro Cquartz and gliss. The car is not my daily and it typically doesn't see rain or get that dirty. Most of the time it just gets dusty/pollen. Typically I do a normal contact wash with carpro reset but I have often thought if I could get away with a no contact wash by just spraying with snow foam and then washing off and drying with a drying aid. Do you think this could be better by minimizing the contact on the car? What do you typically do when your 911 is just dusty? Thanks for the help and detail tips! 🙂
You will never get 100% cleanliness by a contactless method. You ALWAYS need to finish with a contact wash. The road grime and traffic film need mechanical agitation in order to be fully removed. Pre-washes (snow foams) only help soften that up and lubricate the surface, and clean a bit, BEFORE the contact wash.
I wash my 911 twice weekly. I would never just do a contactless wash. I always finish with a contact wash. And there are ZERO scratches on my car. You will soon see my spring cleaning maintenance wash video so you'll see exactly what I do.
If you use safe washing and drying methods, there should be no worries of scratching the finish.
@@PanTheOrganizer Thanks for the reply! That makes sense that you need some physical agitation to remove everything. Thats good to know you are still using contact washes as well. I've been watching you for a while and have implemented a lot of your wash methods. So far I've kept the car in great shape so I will continue with those! Have a good one!
Does the alkaline snow foam affect any ceramic coating? Or is it safer to stick to ph neutral ones? Thx
See my video on that topic: ua-cam.com/video/6K07y26I7Z4/v-deo.htmlsi=Uf0HIHWgdW5-GjGq
@@PanTheOrganizer thank you very much. You are the best.
We will definitely be waiting for that video of the "2 different schools" of thoughts for pre-rinse or not before snow foam! I wonder if it's the same procedure whether the car is slightly dirty like few weeks or super dirty like few months of no washing. I would imagine if a car hasn't been washed for 5 months or so (I couldn't because of super busy schedules) a power rinse with water would definitely be helpful before snow foaming. At least that's what I did and hydrophobic tendencies are back.
The seemingly more and more apparent conclusion is that Water in and of itself does nothing at all for cleaning, at least compared to good surfactants, encapsulation agents, and a good ole higher(alkaline) or lower(acidic) pH cleaner.
The only thing I can honestly think of for a traditional pre-wash is the pressure would help with cars where there's lots of dirt that can be separated from the rest, but even then you're watering down the surface already for your snow foam and then pushing around a bunch of dirt under high pressure.
I like to use something like ONR in a sprayer to pre-treat any areas with lots and lots of dirt and then let my foam do it's job to clean as much of the rest of it as it can before I ever get a chance to move dry dirt around.
@@muchachogrande2019 yes. that is my thinking too. thank you for that. I wonder though if being watered down surface matters if you have ceramic coating. and if ONR and APCs have a "fading" effect on the ceramic coating in the long run with multiple washes. but all in all, I'm on same boat with you
i was specting the spray bottles to BE use um the teste. And i get curious to see...how ir wiil show result um the dark.... which Will Shine the most because of the Lost dirt. good job PAN.
Interesting. Like others, it would have been interesting to see a 2nd door have the same prewashes applied with a hand foamer to see if it changed the results.
Your voice kept changing back and forth in the video. Did you do some voice-over in editing?
Yes I was doing a voiceover for this video.
Will PH products like Build Hamber affect ceramic coatings and spray sealants?
For ceramic coatings, NO. Unless you use higher pH snow foams every day. Ceramic coatings have a much higher chemical resistance compared to traditional waxes/sealants. So no worries. For regular washes, still use pH neutral snow foam. But for decontamination, removing traffic film and grime, especially after winter or after a few months, using high pH snow foams isn't a problem for coated cars.
Repeated use on regular waxes and sealants will degrade/strip them off. So I wouldn't recommend higher pH snow foams on waxes or spray sealants, unless you plan on reapplying a fresh coat after you're done washing the car.
From my perspective on my iPad, I would have to say Bilt Hamber products worked the best. Until today, I never heard of this brand before, and because I live in pretty much the same environment as you in Montreal, I will seriously consider buying this pre wash foam cannon product. Thanks again Pan. Great job, great video as well. Cheers from Ottawa. 🇨🇦👏
Bilt Hamber Touch-Less (for winter) and Auto-Foam (all the other three seasons) are the two best snow foams I have tested as far as cleaning capabilities are concerned. You still need to follow with a contact wash, but the amount of dirt and grime they remove in the pre-wash is amazing.
More videos to come with those in the near future.
What nozzle is that? Can I get a link plz
It's a 40 degree tip 4.0 orifice that comes with my Mosmatic gun and wand kit. Here: bit.ly/3EmZuVy
What nozzle is on your power washer? I like how big the fan of water is. I would like to have one
It's a 40 degree tip on my Mosmatic gun setup. Link: bit.ly/3EmZuVy
cleaning wise its Bilt Hamber no doubt, lubrication and foam Carpro lift & GSF. in weekend warriors' term what's your recommended ratio of the Bilt Hamber? PIR is just a bit too much for me to understand 😅
Here's the video I followed for PIR simple instructions calculations: ua-cam.com/video/fZ_dyRofcHg/v-deo.html
@@PanTheOrganizer thanks a million
You bet!
I have just waxed my car with the turtle wax hybrid solutions wax, I'm using the bilt hamber touchless foam on it at a 20:1 ratio and so far so good, it doesn't seem to have damaged the wax yet and the cleaning power is absolutely fantastic. I'm also using surfex HD as a pre rinse at 20:1 too
It might be a bit too harsh for continuous use. There is no need for a high pH snow foam for every maintenance weekly wash. Once every month or every other month should be enough. For regular washes, use a pH neutral snow foam.
Also, you don't need to use an APC pre-treatment before every wash, that is overkill and unneeded. If you take good care and regular care of your vehicle, you don't need to use stronger chemicals every week.
@@PanTheOrganizer isnt it best to remove as much dirt as possible before doing a contact wash? I'd rather have to wax my car more rather than have to polish it more
Each person has their method. I prefer using a stronger snow foam as a pre-wash when there's a bit more dirt. Some like using an APC pre-treat. Up to you to decide what's best in your conditions.
My favorites are nanolex professional prewash for heavy dirt and Sonax ActiFoam Energy if I want a ph neutral snow foam.
Although I do have a five-liter jug of Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam, the cost in the USA makes it quite expensive per application so I've opted to use it for specialty cases in a spray bottle. I've been using 3D Super Pre-Soak in my foam cannon at about three ounces per quart. I have definitely noticed the difference when I used it prior to my typical ONR rinseless wash; the water was much less dirty in the end and as a result, there should be less risk of scratching.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Pan
Good test
Try to test Gs with these other its pH 12.5
Or the dedicated pre-wash Vb pH 13.1
Thanks! How did you discover my channel by the way?
@@PanTheOrganizer
Old follower years back
Great channel and content, inspiring
Big thumbs up 👍🏻
Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. Always happy to see long time subscribers still along for the ride. 🙏🏻
Would be nice to say how many ml or ounces of each product would be used in the MTM snow cannon to equal a PIR of 5% . Another challenge would put them up against neutral PH shampoo like GSF and the add some Green Star to compared the cost per application and effectiveness. I used 1 ounce of Reset and 1ounce of lift on winter cars in MTM snow cannon get great results.
To get 5% pir in a foam cannon youd need roughly 500ml as most medium flowing pressure washers take 10L to empty a 1L foam cannon. In other words a ton of product is required.
@@KiranPatel-fk1pg That's what I thought a lot of product.
I used this video to calculate my PIR for my setup: ua-cam.com/video/fZ_dyRofcHg/v-deo.html
And I use my MJJC Foam Cannon Pro for the Bilt Hamber snow foams, so it might differ compared to my MTM PF22.2. I won't start doing calculations for all my foam cannons lol.
In my case, for 5% PIR, I need 345ml of snow foam and 255 ml of water (600 ml total solution, or 20oz) for my setup.
I really didn’t think they did much cleaning but now I know they do, so thanks for testing and sharing.
;)
I wonder if it would make a difference if they were sprayed on the panel as a foam. It would probably would be a pain to glean the foam cannon out and go to the next product...
It's been proven time and time again that Bilt Hamber snow foams are some that have the highest cleaning power.
Hi Pan does the higher alkaline products remove my wax protectant?
Yes if you do repeated use. Waxes aren’t as chemically resistant compared to ceramic coatings.
I use lift but the first one let me think about… i live in the caribbean near to the sea, my enviroment its heavy too… thanks for your time
Hi Pan - so if I use the Bilt Hamber auto foam, will it strip any sealant, like c2v3 gtechniq? If so, would I reapply c2v3? Or just use beadmaker? Or both?
You wouldn’t have the use for BH for every weekly wash. If you use it weekly, use it at a lower 2% PIR and it shouldn’t strip ceramic based protections.
Great video Pan
Thanks Kosta!
Nice. It would be interesting to see if there is a difference if its foamed vs not foamed (like u used).
Also it would be interesting to see if a snowfoam cleans better befor or after a pre rinse.
Aaanywho awsome video as usual.
The idea is to encapsulate the dirt and protect your paint. Just pressure washing dirt across your paint without lubrication is a bad idea.
@@DKMFan85 no, reason why to put it on by foam is that foam stay on paint and don’t dry as fast (and of course it looks better :)) alsa these higher PH product you can use straight from sprayer and have same outcome
@@Booczech7 The popping bubbles also add some slight agitation to break down dirt and pull away from the paint. I hardly ever spray foam my own car though. I can zip around it in 20 minutes with something like ONR and then use a SiO2 or graphene detail spray as a drying aid and maintenance for my coating. Only need to do a full clean maybe twice per year. People tend to overthink a coated car sometimes.
@@DKMFan85 i tried that, foam vs spray, no visible difference. (Cold weather, possible to sit on paint about 2 minutes) Of course you can use ONR if you like it but it is not perfect as many people try to believe, I would not do it on car with great or near perfect paint, it just not safest method, period… ONR is better for most people (who are not able to do proper technique water wash) if you dont want to pre wash and use qood quality wash mit and shampoo then yes ONR is better because you need just bucket one bottle of product and sponge. Thats how it is I test it, I really want to ONR to succeed because it looks great on paper but in real it is not safest method and I want that for my near pefect paint and treat my costumers cars. :)
It would have been near impossible to do this test while foaming each snow foam on the same panel, as you would get overspray from one snow foam to the next.
Also, if the products were foamed on, they would actually have performed even better, so the conclusions would be the same, just amplified further.
When foaming, the bubbles cover more surface area, and when the bubbles burst, they also create light mechanical agitation which further increases the cleaning ability. Also, when foamed, the snow foams cling longer on the paint and keep the paint “wetter” and lubricated for longer, giving more time to the surfactants and other parts of the chemistry to do their job.
It would have been nice if you added a test control of car foam wash.
Great idea! I hope that’ll be on another video!
A pH neutral car shampoo was used here. Gsf. It's both a snow foam and bucket shampoo for hand washing. If that's what you meant.
If that's not what you meant, I have no idea what you're talking about then.
@@PanTheOrganizer That's what I meant. Thanks. Love your channel.
Thanks Phil! How did you discover my channel by the way?
@@PanTheOrganizer Searching on UA-cam how to clean your car.
Unless there's a traditional coating applied, I'd be hesistant to use the 3 alkaline products. I don't see how they wouldn't degrade a wax or sealant. I hope Yvan Lacroix sees this. He claims snowfoans do zero good. Maybe some, but not all. What dilution did you use GSF?
I would not recommend using high pH pre-wash snow foams on regular waxes and sealants. Those don't have the same great chemical resistance that true ceramic coatings have. If you do repeated use of high alkaline shampoos on waxes and sealants, you will eventually break them down and strip them off.
Higher pH snow foams are more intended for use on ceramic coated vehicles, or before doing the entire prep, decon and polishing and application of a paint protectant.
I used the recommended dilutions for all snow foams. What ever the label says.
@@PanTheOrganizer thanks!
My pleasure.