***small correction*** Apparently what I saw wasn’t the Glendale skyline - must’ve been something else i.e. tempe, scottsdale not sure exactly. Anyway, my point still stands, downtown phoenix blows! How would you go about fixing it?
Could've been the Biltmore area too. There's some taller office buildings there that could be confused as another downtown depending on where you're looking from. Signed, a guy who just moved to just about as far away from downtown Phoenix as you can be while still being in Phoenix city limits.
@fourth_place Your point doesn't stand AT ALL, actually, unless you think like it is something compelling and magical with the borders of an area so called " downtown ". Downtown Tempe is 15-20 min away from downtown Phoenix. So it's downtown Scottsdale. So it's Paradise Valley. So it's Midtown Phoenix. So it's Desert Ridge. So it's Biltmore. So are 25 world class resorts and golf courses. Nome of which, by the way, are in Austin. Phoenix DOESN'T NEED to focus EXCLUSIVELY on downtown, like others, because it has SO MUCH MORE TO OFFER
Thank you for spotlighting AZ! Glendale does not have a skyline, perhaps you were referring to Uptown Phoenix? There is actually a lot of construction currently going on in Roosevelt Row and several new condo towers have gone up in just the past 2 years with many more on the way. They are filling the gap between Downtown and Uptown which should help make the skyline as a whole more impressive in the near future. Tempe definitely has a much denser and more cohesive skyline since it follows a master plan around Tempe Town Lake. The success of this plan has resulted in many companies leaving Downtown Phoenix for Tempe. Even Phoenix’s tallest building has sat empty for years now after Chase Bank relocated to Tempe. The area around the stadiums is also undergoing a transformation into the “Legends Entertainment District”. The plan includes mandatory billboards/signage for new development which has given the area a “Times Square” vibe. Downtown has a long way to go but it’s heading in the right direction!
Pretty sure that the tallest building is closed due to the fact the soil there is not suitable for a building that large. Source: I live in Phoenix, and that building has been fenced off for years, and a hard hat and PPE is required to enter. Also the newer buildings are digging WAYYY deeper than that building's foundation.
@@NiarahHawthorne interesting i did not know that! i also read that it was filled with asbestos which is why the interiors were demolished. i live in a high-rise nearby and it seems like nothing is going on, kind of sad to see our tallest building just rotting away. i hope the new owners eventually figure out what to do with it.
This is true but it’s all relative. When you actually walk around the core blocks of DTLA you realize there’s actually a lot more there than most people realize, and it’s probably bigger than most downtowns in the US. I live in LA and was just visiting Austin recently, and while Austin has a great and lively downtown, I realized that it’s still smaller and less densely constructed than DTLA. DTLA’s biggest problem is that it is underutilized, so many boarded up and abandoned buildings in its historic core.
Yup, and I lived in DTLA for 2 years. And even though some more buildings have been built since I was there, it is a small area. Like Phoenix, its skyline only looks decent from the east or west and not the north or south.
I visited Phoenix last year and as a hardcore native New Yorker I only got around with walking and public transportation. Not once did I use an Uber during my short stay there (4 days) I went hiking, to the zoo and visited a couple museums by bus/light rail. To be extremely fair I was staying in the heart of downtown near central avenue. Forgot the number of the bus but one brings you all the way south along central Ave by baseline road which is where I walked from to get to south mountain ⛰️ park to do my hiking. I heard they’re extending the light rail south along central Ave which would be dope ! I like their light rail system for a car centric city because it has a unique feature that our nyc subway system doesn’t have and that’s a 1 seat direct rail link from their airport to their city center/downtown and it’s a quick ride ! Took me only about 15 minutes. Our subway system does not directly connect with the terminals at JFK airport and LGA airport is only connected via bus. Grant it it’s a small system but if it’s extended even more I can see hope for PHX in the future transportation wise. You can live there without a car but of course that’s if you work in downtown and live in downtown or extremely near it. They’re also gentrifying the downtown area and areas near it with those luxury high rise apt buildings (same thing going on here in Brooklyn,NY) and they’re expensive. Idk how people do it out there man with the rapidly high cost of living. Also took a bus East to the zoo which also allows access to trails in Pago Pago park where I also did some hiking. Hopefully they can have a light rail line built to service that area directly as well.
As a native, Phoenix has such a small downtown skyline because the city is so massively spread out. Hence, no need for a hugely dense concentration of skyscrapers Phoenix is one of the largest cities by total land area in the country Other large cities with huge land areas also don’t have “impressive” skylines. Atlanta, Jacksonville, etc
@@jdog22c34 If we’re talking about the whole metro area and not just the City of Phoenix, yes, definitely To truly appreciate the scale of the whole Phoenix metro area, or “The Valley” as locals know it, you have to see it from 10,000+ feet
@jdog22c34 Well said! Yeah I've lived in Atlanta, Dallas, LA, etc. All those other cities have boring and small Downtowns too and are improving since Covid wfh boom. DFW I'd say is just as dense as the Phoenix Valley but Atlanta feels super spread out and a lot of suburbs feel rural. Downtown is not active. For some reason these basic as youtube city planners choose Phoenix as the symbol of sprawl and hate on it.
@@MoonShine-o5nDowntown Dallas may not be super active, but neighborhoods around it definitely are. Uptown Dallas is a prime example of that and looks to be larger than Downtown Phoenix currently. A lot of high-rises are being built. If these same high-rises were being built in Phoenix, they would be major skyscrapers.
So you were in Phoenix in January? You should know that most of your photos you are providing on here are 10+ years old. Downtown Phoenix has been going through a huge boom the past 7 years or so. Roosevelt Row is very similar to Rainey St in Austin, full of breweries, bars, boutiques and home to First Friday and a Farmers Market every Saturday. True, we don’t have a 6th st. That is very true. Phoenix didn’t hit its growth spurt until the 1950s during the suburb boom across the country and also the birth of affordable air conditioning which is a huge reason why we were able to grow so fast. A lot of the historic type buildings were destroyed in the 1970s to build bigger high rises. But with that said, where the stadiums are, there are plenty of bars, we even have two Sports Books. Cityscape near the stadiums is full of restaurants, bars, a comedy club and also a bowling alley. There are concert venues, cocktail bars, speakeasies, night clubs, pizza spots and hot dog joints all over. Being that Phoenix’ downtown is some what “small” it is actually pretty spread out but there is tons to do on a regular basis, with festivals going on almost every weekend during our nice months. I am very surprised that the fact you were here in January that it must of not of been very busy when you went out? If it was one of our rainy, cold days in January we tend to stay in,lol. Anyway, we are also going through a huge residential boom, there are literally thousands of units under construction and thousands of units that have completed in the past 10 years. I have no idea how you missed that, there’s like 8 cranes in the sky right now and more projects on the way!!!
Exactly, there is construction everywhere with plenty of new towers to begin construction by the end of this year and even ones that just began. We are even getting a new tallest tower to begin construction in the first quarter of 2025
True that a lot of the photos are old, but DT Phoenix still isn't very active even with all the new construction. It's like a ghost town much of the time even when the weather is nice. Many smaller cities are much more hustle-bustle and have more things to see and do in their central districts. It makes Phoenix look like a small city in comparison.
@@grahamturner2640 Calling them skyscrapers is a joke. They're high-rises. Skyscrapers are usually in excess of 500 feet in height or greater than 40 stories. The closest thing to a skyscraper in all of Arizona is the old Chase tower which is vacant now, LOL.
Phoenix has always had a small downtown..although the downtown "Central Corridor" (Central Avenue) goes as far north as Camelback Rd. Also most of the retail downtown - the Dept stores and specialty shops moved out to places like Park Central and Christown in the 60s - leaving the bank headquarters and gov't offices downtown.
I feel like this guy doesn't have enough experience because it is not like how he described. As a designer who works downtown and been here since 08 its grown.
Yeah, this video is one of the most uninformed and out-of-touch characterizations I've ever seen of any place. And what's with the roughly 20 year old picture of DT Phoenix's skyline? An effort to deceive?
@@MoonShine-o5n There are a lot of new high-rises but what does that matter? Phoenix's DT area is still dead much of the time. The problem is there aren't many notable attractions to draw more people to the central district.
When I visited Phoenix with Dad, we were both puzzled at how America’s largest state capital (by population) had such a lackluster and nondescript downtown. Also, it’s strange how Phoenix has America’s largest suburb (Mesa) that doesn’t really have much of a downtown or a distinctive identity.
@@WizDaPenguin, we visited the State Capitol and learned that Phoenix is the largest capital by population (not including the metro area), followed by Austin, TX; Columbus, OH; Indianapolis, IN; and Denver, CO to round up the top five.
I live in Tempe, near the Downtown area but when the weather is nice I do visit the downtown of Mesa and Phoenix on the light rail - so I consider the downtown concept extended over several areas - Mesa is more Main Street (small town), Tempe is a College Town and Phoenix is more Big City so a bit of everything. By the way, all these areas have new apartments going up so YIMBY across all three areas - huge need for new housing and the fact that much if it is going up around the Light Rail System is great!
at 3:50, look to your right, that's the district built out of the arenas. You simply didn't look the right direction, you're looking toward the railyard and industrial district. Idk how you missed that
PHX resident here, I absolutely agree. It’s the capital of horrendous land usage. Tucson is way cooler. It’s sad to see so much palo verde + saguaro forest (which is exceptionally rare) bulldozed for dystopian hellscape. I’m convinced the developers were heavily inspired by call of duty’s Nuke-town map.
You don't need a tall skyline to have a vibrant downtown that's not a good excuse. Boston's skyline has the same restrictions and it has a very vibrant downtown.
@@kfen8794Boston is a great city! I hope CoP looks at their downtown and implement some the things they are doing. Phoenix doesn’t need super tall skyscrapers for its downtown to be great. They got the right vision going with Roosevelt Row and Central Station later this year. If they can just build a really nice entertainment district it will take their downtown to a new level.
Thank you for this video. Phoenix never invested in their downtown, instead it went for more sprawl and roads. It’s very interesting to see a city doing great economically but it not translate to its downtown. I know Downtown Phoenix has becoming increasingly more dense the last ten years but there’s still so many empty lots. I’m glad you brought up the FAA because I think the city needs to address this issue if it wants to build up. I do love how the airport is so close to downtown Phoenix but I don’t understand why there are height restrictions. San Diego has their downtown close to their airport and they are able to build an impressive skyline. The city has to draw ppl to downtown Phoenix as well by building a true entertainment district and enough retail so that ppl can shop and for clothes and groceries. Currently, there is no entertainment district and the amount of retail is laughable, but there are multiple projects being built that will bring a substantial amount of retail to downtown Phoenix and the city is in the early stages of coming up with an entertainment district. Phoenix seems to be taking a very slow and cautious approach to building up their downtown which has always been Phoenix’s approach to development.
I'm pretty sure SD has height restrictions in the flight path and the downtown area is a bit offset from that. Dunno if you were around for it, but before the Cardinals built jiffy pop stadium out in Glendale, there was a proposal to build one directly in the flight path in Tempe -- as I recall, it was championed by one of the Tempe council members who evidenally hates planes flying over the river and wanted to force a flight path realignment by sticking a stadium in the way... FAA was like: you're planning on building a stadium and having planes fly directly overhead with only 100ish feet of clearance... not a smart idea and we can't move that flight path so... I think they tried to do it again recently with the Coyotes this time and the FAA shot them down because they also tried to throw a highrise condo tower into the plan.
Not true. Visit Vegas in the summer and you'll see people walking up and down the strip even when it's 110 degrees. The strip is both walkable and vehicle-centric with lots of attractions, so it's busy all times of the day, all times of the year.
Small downtown, not having freeways outside of I-17 and a small part of U.S. 60 until 1990... I'm learning a lot about the metro area I moved to last year recently.
Good video but I really do find it hard to take it seriously when you made the glendale mistake so prominently and repeatedly. Glendale has no skyline. You almost certainly saw uptown phoenix.
Understandable. New channel here, and that video was one of my first that required any sort of heavy research tying into what I was seeing with my own eyes. As with anything, more experience will mean more accuracy. I'll admit I'm not wikipedia or anything, but in my more recent videos I pride myself on my accuracy and preciseness, and I hope you find that to be the case as well :)
@fourthplace You’re also incorrect about Phoenix being an “early adopter” of highways lol. A lot of Phoenix highways were built since the 90s really without federal grants. Roadguy Rob has a great video called “Phoenix without freeways” on this. You’ve really got to do better research if you’re going to do explainer videos man.
@@MoonShine-o5nhe just said it's one of his first videos bud. Give him a break. And neither of these points conflict with his overall point which is true. Phoenix is reliant on cars and the suburbs are the places with things to do.
@@theamaeve8175You can't do explainer videos with so many mistakes lol. And this isn't something unique to Phoenix at all. It's super basic to hate on the Phoenix area when it's actually pretty great. It's why people move here. All US metro areas are like this.. Atlanta, Dallas, LA, etc. they have boring Downtowns. Any major metro except NYC, Chicago, Nola, Nashville, Vegas and a few have boring downtowns.
Phoenix has by far the worst downtown I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been to LA’s downtown. It’s dead on nearly every weekend. Sporting events and first fridays bring a bit more foot traffic but otherwise nothing else does. You hit the nail on the head describing the suburbs, Phoenix is, in essence, one big suburb of 5 million people. It is completely designed for people who only desire to live the sprawling, car hungry lifestyle. Tempe is the only place going in the opposite direction and it’s thankfully moving very quickly there.
You probably haven’t been to Roosevelt Row (especially on First Friday) or to any of Downtown Phoenix’s many trendy bars and clubs Give it another shot!
They talk about Roosevelt Row in the video. It’s identified as one of the few nice areas downtown. Given that Phoenix is one of the largest cities in the country, they should be doing much better.
@@benjamincornia7311 Roosevelt Row isn’t the only good area of downtown. The area around the arena and ballpark are nice as well, with Heritage Square, the AZ Science Center, etc. Outside downtown but still within Phoenix there’s also Uptown, with old but gentrified neighborhoods, there’s the Biltmore/North Central area, there’s Arcadia, one of the more well-off parts of Phoenix, there’s the environs of Paradise Valley, etc
@@benjamincornia7311 there’s more than just Roosevelt Row, though The East part of downtown, around the sports venues, the Arizona Science Center and Heritage Square is nice too Outside downtown there are other great parts of Phoenix too, like Midtown, Uptown, Arcadia and North Central
@@coyotelong4349 That is true. There is more, but I still agree with the video and this comment. Go to other major cities of comparable size or even plenty of other smaller cities: Las Vegas, San Antonio, Charlotte, even Salt Lake City, they all do better jobs at giving people a reason to go to the heart of downtown and I don’t get that with Phoenix. Phoenix is a great place to live and I have hope that it continues to grow and improve, but the downtown area needs attention from city officials and developers.
The only thing holding the Valley if the Sun down is the residents of the Valley: - Here in the valley, property value is affected by the views of the mountains, proximity to water, as well as the noise level. Nobody can build above 5 stories without special permits, and it's almost impossible to do residentially because the neighbors sue before construction begins to protect their property values. - I worked at a truss plant in Gilbert. The plant has been there for 30 years near downtown, and the train delivers the lumber. When they started building houses on the other dide of the train tracks, they started to complain about the noise . The law was in favor of the new houses so the whole plant had to move, even though the plant was there and opperating 20+ years before the houses were built.
Downtown Phoenix needs a mall or a small store center. There’s only an Urban outfitters. Glendale and Scottsdale have that. It’s the only reason we go to those places. Same with Chandler.
No it doesn't. It has had one for decades, the Arizona Center. I loved living across the street from it, because it had a full-sized movie theater, but that mall was dead all day, every day. The life of downtown was centered on Roosevelt Row and other places. The mall is a dead space in the area.
Nah.. just more apartments all around downtown and areas north, south of there.. more coffee shops, breweries, hangout spaces like what’s on Roosevelt.
If you come into phoenix from the west on I-10, you get a pretty great skyline view because you see all the buildings along central ave through downtown and not just downtown.
Likely has to mean Midtown Phoenix or maybe Biltmore. Other than those two places and downtown Tempe and downtown Scottsdale, there are no tall buildings anywhere in the metro.
I went to a convention in downtown Phoenix and I was surprised how boring and barren it was in terms of things to do. Many homeless wandering around and restaurants catering to the business people working there but generally culturally barren. I’ve been to all the other cities you mentioned and agree with you that Phoenix could do more. It was frustrating staying at a hotel in downtown Phoenix because I felt trapped in a barren landscape unless I got in my vehicle and drove to Scottsdale or Tempe. At least some of the neighborhoods just north of downtown had some interesting locations here and there, but they were rather scattered.
5:12 Phoenix was not an early adopter to freeways, they built all but two in the 80's and 90's The first free ways were the Black Canyon freeway and interstate 10 which actually just melded into phoenix streets for most of its path before being dug into the ground.
Some cities don't really have impressive skylines, like Washington DC, Tokyo, Osaka, almost all European cities. My city of Pittsburgh has an amazing skyline, but at ground level, it is kinda not really that great. DC, as well as Japanese and European cities do have a better street life, although Pittsburgh is very walkable. Skylines really aren't that important for livability, street level is more important.
I will say that there are some good points in this video, but many of the videos and footage that are used in this are extremely outdated and the Phoenix skyline is growing more than ever. Phoenix is connecting its midtown to its downtown area with two new projects set to break ground by the end of this year helping adjust the city's skyline for the better. Along with those two projects is the new Astra Phoenix tower which will be the cities first official skyscraper (finally). Additionally, a new entertainment district is set to come soon that will replace the convention centers south building and bring two hotel rooms with 1,200 rooms and entertainment in the area. I'd also like to add that Roosevelt row is still growing and there is currently plenty of construction in the area and many new stores. Phoenix isn't Chicago or New York but it is certainly on the right path of living up to its potential.
Phoenix seems to prioritize creating opportunities for its residents like jobs, housing, and land availability over just focusing on building skyscrapers. It's essential to balance growth with ensuring the well-being and prosperity of the community. By focusing on these aspects, the city can sustain its rapid growth while maintaining a high quality of life for its residents.
part of the reason for this is because phoenix really meshes into all the other cities right next to it, it's basically all one big mega-city. hell, they even all share the same road system, with central running up and down phoenix proper and every other north-south road within some 20 miles is named based on direction and distance from central, and that covers, like, 5 different "cities". it's like if you looked at a human arm, and asked, "why doesn't this thing have a mouth? how do humans eat?" you're only confused about it because of a meaningless distinction. The Phoenix Metropolitan Area functions, not as the many nearby cities that it legally is, but as one, large city.
That's a great point. Phoenix seems to prioritize creating opportunities for its residents like jobs, housing, and land availability over just focusing on building skyscrapers. It's essential to balance growth with ensuring the well-being and prosperity of the community. By focusing on these aspects, the city can sustain its rapid growth while maintaining a high quality of life for its residents.
I do not live in Arizona, but I can tell you this based on my personal experience as others here have or would agree... 1. Downtown Phoenix is very small. It has never grown it in its size as much as other major cities have. That includes its building density. 2, The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) put a restriction on building height because of their main east/west flight path passing very close to the south of DTPHX That alone has all but put a halt on the "growth" of its skyline and it shows. It was even worse 30 years ago. 3, The buildings you likely are thinking of are just to the north in Midtown Phoenix along Central Avenue. Can mainly get confusing for those visiting for the first time when looking from the west or east. Some of the blame in having to build more "tall" office buildings is because of those FAA restrictions. 4. Since Phoenix is such a large city and growing quickly in population, it is like Los Angeles where it is very spread out and areas have their own "population centers" Easily comes to mind... Tempe's growing skyline although not impressive, but it has one. Then there is Phoenix's other satellite cities in Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Goodyear, Peoria, Surprise and Glendale. You can even add rapidly growing Buckeye to far west. All these areas have enough people and commercial development where one does not have to go into downtown Phoenix for many of the needs residents have close to them. So that unfortunately impacts DTPHX in that way... you did bring up this reason (suburban sprawl) in your video. Downtown Los Angeles has the same problem. Tempe is not the "new Phoenix". Their downtown area is centered mostly around Arizona State University. It does have in that part of Tempe a number of corporate headquarters to Fortune 500 companies, but it is even smaller concentrated along Tempe Town Lake. The rest of Tempe to the south is more so of lower to middle class income homes mixed with some upper class neighborhoods. But it still is not Phoenix. Overall, downtown Phoenix will not grow unless it gives residents a big reason to move there. And bring MORE big business downtown.
It appears that the city of Phoenix is trying to bring more development downtown by redrawing its central business corridor further south, west and east. Hopefully that will spark development further south of downtown Phoenix. Hopefully the city follows through with their entertainment district plans for downtown Phoenix, which should bring more foot traffic.
@@Truthfully_Marvin The problem with extending downtown SOUTH is that you cannot build large commercial buildings (or skyscrapers) that direction from where the downtown district is now. The FAA will not allow that. They already have a restriction on building height and it would take a change in those restrictions and impacted existing city, county and state laws to scale back or remove those restrictions. I would expect more development north, not south.
It was years ago when I lived in Phoenix, but I remember driving down the interstate freeway that passes by downtown. Driving north to south, on my left was downtown Phoenix, and on my right was a farm. Yes, a farm practically in the center of Phoenix! The other thing I noticed was this city was designed with nothing but endless spawl in mind. About every mile, running north to south, is a major road named in numerical order: 10th Avenue, 11th Avenue, etc. Same thing with major east to west roads. So the result is a bunch of quadrants, and within each quadrant are smaller suburban residential streets. Once I drove out to Southern California for vacation and waaay out of town I would see an occasional dirt road with a number already assigned (e.g. 200th Avenue). Seriously, they were obviously laying down plans for the "city" to spawl *hundreds* of miles into the desert.
I think a reason why Tempe has its own attractive downtown is the fact it's the home of Arizona State University, and as such has a lot of growth in that city like Lansing and Ann Arbor in Michigan. Besides, as you mentioned in the video, due to Sky Harbor Airport being so close to downtown, a lot of high-rise construction is out of the question.
@@jdog22c34 not if you compare the city of phoenix alone to las vegas and every part of suburban clark county that has a las vegas address.... it's practically even at that point
@@jdog22c34 no i'm comparing the population of Phoenix to Las Vegas and all places that have a Las Vegas address... do you know how that works? do you realize that the Las Vegas Strip, and huge areas to the east, west and south are not a part of the city of Las Vegas, but have Las Vegas addresses, right? i'm not including mesa, tempe, henderson or north las vegas.
As someone who moved from Michigan to Arizona 6 years ago, I find Tempe more visibly attractive compared to Phoenix. Even though Tempe Town Lake is man-made, it does remind me of the Detroit River. One thing I wish both cities had were more trees and shaded spots - Arizona summers are insanely hot.
Opening the video with damn near a 20 year old photo of downtown Phoenix is wild lmao. The point of the video absolutely still stands, but a decent amount of progress was made in that time so it’s still pretty misleading even if not completely incorrect.
Growing up in PHX you worked or went to school, at night, you go to Sobsdale to play. On holidays, you head to Chandler or Glendale. The only thing going was the state fair or basketball at the Madhouse on Mcdowell and 19th ave. Today I take the 303, 101, and the 202 to avoid downtown as much as possible.
I live in the suburbs. We have our own fancy little downtown if I ever feel like going out. In fact we hardly ever go to DT Phoenix unless its for a specific event.
Phoenix native here -- if you didn't like it now, you'd have absolutely hated it about 10-15 years ago, it was downright depressing. Now its actually kinda picking up a bit, no explosion of highrises just yet (and honestly thats a bit unlikely ever), but there is a bit of a nightlife developing. Cityscape on Central between Washington and Jefferson is ok -- I've seen quite a few comedy shows and bands at copper blues over the years. Along Monroe you have Seamus McCaffrey's, Cornish Pasty, Valley Bar, Melindas Alley, Huss Brewery... a bit south of there you have Bitter & Twisted, Bar Smith, Crown Public House. You can definitely go bar hopping and have a good time and there are a handful of late-night eateries around as well. The how we got here is a bit more interesting though. I mean the growth rate and cheap land offered little incentive to build up, and freeways were still being built well into the 2000's... the 51 which is now considered old was still being built in the 90's... so getting to downtown from the outlying areas took forever - like getting to say 32nd and Bell from downtown could be a 90-minute drive. With the vastly improved infrastructure, I'm moderately optimistic the downtown area will continue to become a bit more vibrant and that the revitalization projects won't fail the same way they have in the past.
Even though it's surrounded by freeways it's still another 5-10min drive to get there once you are off. To not interfere with the airport flight path, I would expand northwest towards the17/10 intersection. At least to 19th avenue. Incorporate library park, bolin memorial plaza, capitol museum etc. Transportation hubs and parking at the edges, next to freeways to reduce traffic. Incorporate trams, trolleys etc. at those hubs. Last but not least housing, housing, housing. Sorry, palmcroft, del norte and story. Expand ecanto park south incorporating memorial coliseum, fair grounds to intersect with downtown. There is your central park.
I love Tempe, but it's downtown will never rival Phoenix's. All of those tall buildings are being built for ASU students. Could that eventually change? Tempe hopes so. Still, students don't make for a dense downtown alone. Tempe Town Lake is a high-rent office district, but not too tall. A HUGE development called South Pier is being built (over the next decade) on the lake, too. Still, Tempe will never have the tallest nor the most highrises. Furthermore, downtown Phoenix is exploding with new highrise development, including a new tallest for the state right now. On the topic of nightlife, I lived in downtown Phoenix for a decade. I currently live a 15-minute drive away and visit often. I lived a short walk from downtown Tempe for a couple years. Tempe's nightlife is entirely college-oriented. If you're not 22 or younger, you're skipping it. Downtown Phoenix is far more interesting for anyone older. I loved the nightlife there, along Roosevelt Row for example. The problem with Phoenix's nightlife is that it is easy to miss, if you don't know where to look. Tempe's downtown, on the other hand, is geographically tiny, so missing its nightlife is impossible, if you're downtown.
The section at 1:38 is NOT true. And I think it’s a bit ridiculous to say that when you don’t actually live here. Tempe is great but is not more prominent of a city compared to Phoenix, Maybe more dense, but central Phoenix (especially near Roosevelt) is amazing and in my opinion the best area of the metro.
While the Glendale reference was puzzling (before the correction), much of this is accurate. Phoenix and Los Angeles are somewhat similar in this regard. They are hugely spread out, even just within the city limits and not including the suburbs, but with disproportionally small downtowns. There is a lot of construction currently in downtown Phoenix, and since it's largely mid/high-rise - dense - residential, it will be interesting to see the eventual impact.
How are you judging the size of downtown Phoenix? By surface area or the height of the buildings? We don't have skyscrapers because downtown is in the flight path of Sky Harbor Airport. As far as the actual area that consists of downtown Phoenix, not even Phoenicians seem to agree on what is "downtown." Some would say that downtown extends along Central Avenue to Camelback Rd. Some say Phoenix has two downtowns. I say thank God we're not like L.A. or NYC.
I've lived all over the country. Phoenix metro has been the best spot. The hate it receives is mind boggling. Thinking a metro area needs an anchor city downtown is 20th century thinking and fails to understand the metro.
Same! I’ve lived across the country too and decided I wanna settle down here. It’s pretty awesome.. especially love East Valley. It’s very basic to hate on the Phoenix area lol..
I live in Phoenix- and can confirm: the life and rapid growth of Phoenix is nowhere to be found in the center, but rather in the outmost suburbs (although all still connected), like Avondale, Surprise, and Goodyear, where nice new areas are being put up and filled at a rapid pace. I never go downtown, except for maybe a concert, sports game, or legal/business errand.
There is a historical district in downtown Phoenix, you didnt search for it. Both ASU and the University of Arizona have schools and students downtown. Old town Scotsdale is the main entertainment location, then Mill Ave the ASU district. The Phoenix area has several cities over 200,000 with their own entertainment areas such as Gilbert, Chandler, Tempe, Glendale and Scotsdale. As far as downtown Phoenix it has a convention center and first fridays. Perhaps, your bad accessment is from a lack of understanding that at one time there are vast cheap land for developement in the all the surrounding cities of Maricopa county. If you see the vast development in downtown San Diego as an example Phoenix is slowly headed to redefine its downtown area. As a person who moved to Phoenix is 2005 perhaps you have a negative set of glasses and do not see the measures that Phoenix has taken to revise it.
Phoenix is a new city...it does not have the infrastructure that older cities needed (like public transportation, apartments in downtown, markets and stores for downtown residents without cars, etc..) This city grew up in a modern era...I grew up in Dallas...where there was in there was a vibrant downtown scene...but today...the city has faded to look much like Phoenix is...suburban life has taken hold...
Moving into Maricopa county is a trap. Never move here it’s awful expensive and hot. The water is trash and the air is like when you open an oven. It’s designed to keep you indoors and looking for work. We can’t wait to move back towards the East coast.
I think many us cities have disappointing skylines compared to, say, East Asia is because the country is so open and empty that suburban sprawl can still happen, and there isn't much need to build up instead of out. But then again, Canada is even more open and has better skylines, but they value their nature so there's that.
In the 90's, Phoenix tore down every building with character downtown to build almost everything you mentioned . Roosevelt Row used to be a thriving arts district until the corporations bought it out and gentrified it.
Most overrated metro in the nation. Reason: Almost all was built after the 1920s Phoenix was pumped by CA costs/taxes, Rustbelt economy and immigration. I was under impressed when first visiting
Because you're an idiot and you didn't know what to do with your time. We have the most iconic peaks, desert landscape and hikes in the whole country. Good riddance. Don't come back
Honest question, is it really hyped up from people not from here? I grew up here and always felt like it was the lamest city, at least out west. It’s got its pros and all, but u always felt disconnected from the “city” aspect of it.
That would be Austin. Everybody just hates on Phoenix. I don’t get why white people go nuts over Austin lol. It’s just two blocks with crappy bars, fake taco trucks and it’s done.
Phoenix is not a very old city compared to other capitals, and there's still a lot of construction going on, downtown buildings will eventually connect with the ones on uptown (not sure if that's what you confused with Glendale). The light rail keeps expanding and it will connect other cities on the west. Regadring the height, who wants higher buildings that would prevent us from seeing south and camelback mountains, or our beautiful sunsets. There's so much to do in Phoenix and the cities nearby, you just got to know where to go. If anything we try to stay away from downtown, because we don't like density. Also, we don't really dig "wakable" designs, unless is winter, no one in ther sane mind wants to go walk on concrete streets walled-up by tall structures. One thing I do wish downtown would get rid off is its one-way streets, but I guess that's the best option to keep traffic flowing. One thing that does needs to be addressed in downtown (like in LA, San Francisco, Denver, and many other cities) is homeless camps, lately trash and road maintenance are also becomingban issue.
Hey, overall the video is pretty good. I don't disagree that the downtown is small at all. I will say it used to be small and absolutely DEAD but in the last 15 years or so it has greatly improved. The development of ASU downtown has really brought a lot of life to the area. During that time some great music venues and restaurants have popped up in the area that are now staples to the neighborhood. So, if you think it's not great compared to other cities, fair play, but with the context of what it was before it's definitely headed in the right direction. From an urbanist perspective, they built out the light rail and are even doing construction to a new line that will go south from downtown. One thing that i think works against Phoenix is that people in Arizona do not care as much about walkable neighborhoods and high density live/shop/play areas because in the summer at least, Phoenicians typically avoid being outside completely. It's too hot to even walk short distances.
I live here my whole life and this foo really doesn't know what he's talking about.... bars, sports, restaurants, and always something going on downtown... it wouldn't be on the map if I'm lying
With the recent construction restrictions in Phoenix, you may just get your wish. I'm currently visiting the city, and you couldn't be more right. There's a ton of sprawl, and plenty to do whereim at that I don'tneed to visit their downtownat all.
the fact that downtown phoenix is “small” and is still the 5th biggest city is proof that a large skyline isn’t that important when considering size lol
Downtown phx is all central ave 😅😅..I'm from ny and was shocked how small it was. That said phx itself(including every part like Scottsdale, tempe etc) is one of the best except for summer
Nobody rides trains so who cares, Phoenix is a top five city and is spread out so we have lots of mid sized mall and entertainment areas it’s better that way if everything was in down town Phoenix for five million people nobody would get to enjoy anything nobody could park and it would make no sense. Phoenix is spread out and the grid system makes getting anywhere easy. On a low traffic day you can go from down town phx to any of the main five suburbs in 15-25 min at most.
i live here. it's 115 now. no one wants to be outside on bikes or walking. so there's that. ppl live in the burbs. they go on for miles. east valley is nice. booming. yeh you have to have a car. but again - see the temps.
Yeah, he said he was here in January. It's a delight to be outside during that time of the year, I wonder if he would think the same about walking down Mills Ave during this time.
Yep. They advocate for the same walkability in every part of the country. It’s downright dangerous to be walking out in Phoenix or even Dallas summers.. or lets say Minnesota winters.
Here's a comparison: Phoenix metro population: 5 million Charlotte metro population: 2.8 million Phoenix # of buildings over 400 feet tall: 2 Charlotte # of buildings over 400 feet tall: 17 Phoenix tallest building: 483 feet Charlotte tallest building: 871 feet
I mean the answer is simple. Its a retirement region. Theres no need for regional headquarters there because of the late in life transplants. ASU isnt going to sustain much growth by itself and the rest of the region is literally dying.
Urban sprawl it could take up 2 2 hours to get across the city from north to south or from suburbs It is a widespread city not Built vertically Live there for many years
first that pic is at least 8 years old (banner University hospital built 2016 not there) and 18 new buildings have been built since then. second downtown is in skyharbor flight path and limits building heights. third phoenix is newer city and developed very different than older cities.
I dunno, call me crazy but I think other metro areas that only have one "downtown" area are not as good as those that have multiple downtown-like areas (as mentioned in this video about Gilbert , Tempe, Scottsdale, Glendale, Chandler, etc). More choice and diversity is always a good thing.
Your channel is called Fourth Place, yet you’re covering Phoenix… The fifth place city in the US for population 🤔 Jokes aside, I’ve definitely noticed the small size of downtown while I’ve been in Phoenix for college. Literally the only time I go downtown is to watch baseball. When I look at Phoenix from the air (in a plane), I usually can’t tell where downtown is. Phoenix is a very spread-out city.
Yeah, PHX downtown is just business and banks. It has no flare or any character, just bland, concrete and hot. I find it depressing if I even worked in that area.
Well, downtown Phoenix is getting better. 15 years ago, downtown was dead. It's really changed in the past 10 years. Plus, there's more buildings that are planning on breaking ground soon.
Hahaha, Downtown Phoenix is so small and not much to do, yet I spent 30 minutes finding parking on a Friday night because every bar, restaurant, club and venue was packed...in late August where temps are in the high 90s. The reason why you couldn't find much to do is because you don't know where people go. And Austin as a comparison? really?! One major thing missing from the comparison with Austin is the fact they have the Colorado river. Meanwhile, Phoenix has an aqueduct that flows to bring water in from the same river. Water is essential to the growth to any city, and when there is no source, of course growth is going to be limited. As it should be. People shouldn't populate the desert like they did. And the FAA regulation you barely mentioned is not some small thing. We literally can't have skyrises because of our proximity to the airport and the direction planes need to travel in and out of it. Yes, DT Phoenix is small and will never be a major city like Vancouver, LA, Chicago and Austin. Why build monolithic structures up, when we have a lot of natural monoliths that surrounds that have far more to offer then any concrete filled city.
It will be very hard for Phoenix ever to have an impressive downtown since so much of it was built and designed horribly in the first place and public transportation TO downtown is pretty much a joke. With confusing one-way streets designed by sadistic traffic engineers, peek-a-boo parking, and almost nothing free to do or see, there is just no reason to go there unless it is teeth-pullingly necessary. Ironically, the downtown of OLD Phoenix (see the beginning of the movie, Psycho) was actually more impressive, but the buildings were flattened, the charm removed, and useless low-rise and mid-rise office buildings were built. Too late now.
***small correction*** Apparently what I saw wasn’t the Glendale skyline - must’ve been something else i.e. tempe, scottsdale not sure exactly. Anyway, my point still stands, downtown phoenix blows! How would you go about fixing it?
I think what you saw was Midtown Phoenix. Scottsdale doesn’t really have a skyline.
Could've been the Biltmore area too. There's some taller office buildings there that could be confused as another downtown depending on where you're looking from.
Signed, a guy who just moved to just about as far away from downtown Phoenix as you can be while still being in Phoenix city limits.
Phoenix has a downtown and an Uptown with skylines.. not sure why lol.
Probably Midtown. But I think for a video, you should research that beforehand😅
@fourth_place Your point doesn't stand AT ALL, actually, unless you think like it is something compelling and magical with the borders of an area so called " downtown ". Downtown Tempe is 15-20 min away from downtown Phoenix. So it's downtown Scottsdale. So it's Paradise Valley. So it's Midtown Phoenix. So it's Desert Ridge. So it's Biltmore. So are 25 world class resorts and golf courses. Nome of which, by the way, are in Austin. Phoenix DOESN'T NEED to focus EXCLUSIVELY on downtown, like others, because it has SO MUCH MORE TO OFFER
Thank you for spotlighting AZ! Glendale does not have a skyline, perhaps you were referring to Uptown Phoenix? There is actually a lot of construction currently going on in Roosevelt Row and several new condo towers have gone up in just the past 2 years with many more on the way. They are filling the gap between Downtown and Uptown which should help make the skyline as a whole more impressive in the near future. Tempe definitely has a much denser and more cohesive skyline since it follows a master plan around Tempe Town Lake. The success of this plan has resulted in many companies leaving Downtown Phoenix for Tempe. Even Phoenix’s tallest building has sat empty for years now after Chase Bank relocated to Tempe. The area around the stadiums is also undergoing a transformation into the “Legends Entertainment District”. The plan includes mandatory billboards/signage for new development which has given the area a “Times Square” vibe. Downtown has a long way to go but it’s heading in the right direction!
Glendale's skyline is the Westgate area
Until the 90s, the tallest bldg in Downtown Tempe was the flour mill.
Pretty sure that the tallest building is closed due to the fact the soil there is not suitable for a building that large. Source: I live in Phoenix, and that building has been fenced off for years, and a hard hat and PPE is required to enter. Also the newer buildings are digging WAYYY deeper than that building's foundation.
@@flow4629 I didn't disagree that it's a construction zone tho?
@@NiarahHawthorne interesting i did not know that! i also read that it was filled with asbestos which is why the interiors were demolished. i live in a high-rise nearby and it seems like nothing is going on, kind of sad to see our tallest building just rotting away. i hope the new owners eventually figure out what to do with it.
I remember reading once that Phoenix is similar to what Los Angeles was like in the 1980's.
More like Los Angeles in the 50s/60s.
@@s.hocker9222 I wonder what their Beverly Hills equivalent is.
Even downtown LA is pretty small for a city of ~4M people
This is true but it’s all relative. When you actually walk around the core blocks of DTLA you realize there’s actually a lot more there than most people realize, and it’s probably bigger than most downtowns in the US. I live in LA and was just visiting Austin recently, and while Austin has a great and lively downtown, I realized that it’s still smaller and less densely constructed than DTLA. DTLA’s biggest problem is that it is underutilized, so many boarded up and abandoned buildings in its historic core.
@@brandontaraku6081yeah
@@brandontaraku6081and historically no buildings could overpass the City Hall back then.
Yup, and I lived in DTLA for 2 years. And even though some more buildings have been built since I was there, it is a small area. Like Phoenix, its skyline only looks decent from the east or west and not the north or south.
@@NHLCrazy2007 DTLA is so dense
I visited Phoenix last year and as a hardcore native New Yorker I only got around with walking and public transportation. Not once did I use an Uber during my short stay there (4 days) I went hiking, to the zoo and visited a couple museums by bus/light rail. To be extremely fair I was staying in the heart of downtown near central avenue. Forgot the number of the bus but one brings you all the way south along central Ave by baseline road which is where I walked from to get to south mountain ⛰️ park to do my hiking. I heard they’re extending the light rail south along central Ave which would be dope ! I like their light rail system for a car centric city because it has a unique feature that our nyc subway system doesn’t have and that’s a 1 seat direct rail link from their airport to their
city center/downtown and it’s a quick ride ! Took me only about 15 minutes. Our subway system does not directly connect with the terminals at JFK airport and LGA airport is only connected via bus. Grant it it’s a small system but if it’s extended even more I can see hope for PHX in the future transportation wise. You can live there without a car but of course that’s if you work in downtown and live in downtown or extremely near it. They’re also gentrifying the downtown area and areas near it with those luxury high rise apt buildings (same thing going on here in Brooklyn,NY) and they’re expensive. Idk how people do it out there man with the rapidly high cost of living. Also took a bus East to the zoo which also allows access to trails in Pago Pago park where I also did some hiking. Hopefully they can have a light rail line built to service that area directly as well.
As a native, Phoenix has such a small downtown skyline because the city is so massively spread out. Hence, no need for a hugely dense concentration of skyscrapers
Phoenix is one of the largest cities by total land area in the country
Other large cities with huge land areas also don’t have “impressive” skylines. Atlanta, Jacksonville, etc
Oddly enough the Phoenix Metro is one of the most dense metro areas in the country. The density doesn't drop from Phoenix to Queen Creek.
@@jdog22c34 If we’re talking about the whole metro area and not just the City of Phoenix, yes, definitely
To truly appreciate the scale of the whole Phoenix metro area, or “The Valley” as locals know it, you have to see it from 10,000+ feet
@jdog22c34 Well said! Yeah I've lived in Atlanta, Dallas, LA, etc. All those other cities have boring and small Downtowns too and are improving since Covid wfh boom. DFW I'd say is just as dense as the Phoenix Valley but Atlanta feels super spread out and a lot of suburbs feel rural. Downtown is not active.
For some reason these basic as youtube city planners choose Phoenix as the symbol of sprawl and hate on it.
@@MoonShine-o5nDowntown Dallas may not be super active, but neighborhoods around it definitely are. Uptown Dallas is a prime example of that and looks to be larger than Downtown Phoenix currently. A lot of high-rises are being built. If these same high-rises were being built in Phoenix, they would be major skyscrapers.
Also, its biggest growth is around Tempe, the home to Arizona State University.
So you were in Phoenix in January? You should know that most of your photos you are providing on here are 10+ years old. Downtown Phoenix has been going through a huge boom the past 7 years or so. Roosevelt Row is very similar to Rainey St in Austin, full of breweries, bars, boutiques and home to First Friday and a Farmers Market every Saturday. True, we don’t have a 6th st. That is very true. Phoenix didn’t hit its growth spurt until the 1950s during the suburb boom across the country and also the birth of affordable air conditioning which is a huge reason why we were able to grow so fast. A lot of the historic type buildings were destroyed in the 1970s to build bigger high rises. But with that said, where the stadiums are, there are plenty of bars, we even have two Sports Books. Cityscape near the stadiums is full of restaurants, bars, a comedy club and also a bowling alley. There are concert venues, cocktail bars, speakeasies, night clubs, pizza spots and hot dog joints all over. Being that Phoenix’ downtown is some what “small” it is actually pretty spread out but there is tons to do on a regular basis, with festivals going on almost every weekend during our nice months. I am very surprised that the fact you were here in January that it must of not of been very busy when you went out? If it was one of our rainy, cold days in January we tend to stay in,lol. Anyway, we are also going through a huge residential boom, there are literally thousands of units under construction and thousands of units that have completed in the past 10 years. I have no idea how you missed that, there’s like 8 cranes in the sky right now and more projects on the way!!!
Exactly, there is construction everywhere with plenty of new towers to begin construction by the end of this year and even ones that just began. We are even getting a new tallest tower to begin construction in the first quarter of 2025
True that a lot of the photos are old, but DT Phoenix still isn't very active even with all the new construction. It's like a ghost town much of the time even when the weather is nice. Many smaller cities are much more hustle-bustle and have more things to see and do in their central districts. It makes Phoenix look like a small city in comparison.
Yeah…. That wasn’t Glendale. Glendale is strip malls, and a very small Wild West low rise downtown. You probably saw….. Scottsdale??
scottsdale doesn’t have skyscrapers
Maybe Chandler or Mesa?
Tempe is the only other city in the valley with skyscrapers.
he probably saw mid town and got confused
@@grahamturner2640 Calling them skyscrapers is a joke. They're high-rises. Skyscrapers are usually in excess of 500 feet in height or greater than 40 stories. The closest thing to a skyscraper in all of Arizona is the old Chase tower which is vacant now, LOL.
We had a prewar walkable downtown but it was torn down as blight from the 50s-80s
Lmao. Like everywhere else in the U.S.
Exactly. This whole dead downtown thing isn’t unique to Phoenix either.
Phoenix has always had a small downtown..although the downtown "Central Corridor" (Central Avenue) goes as far north as Camelback Rd. Also most of the retail downtown - the Dept stores and specialty shops moved out to places like Park Central and Christown in the 60s - leaving the bank headquarters and gov't offices downtown.
Even though the area along Central between McDowell and Camelback is also known as “Midtown.”
I feel like this guy doesn't have enough experience because it is not like how he described. As a designer who works downtown and been here since 08 its grown.
Yeah, this video is one of the most uninformed and out-of-touch characterizations I've ever seen of any place. And what's with the roughly 20 year old picture of DT Phoenix's skyline? An effort to deceive?
@arivek9428It used to suck a lot more lol. They've built a lot here since even I first saw it in 2016.. even since 2020 they've built so much there.
@@MoonShine-o5n There are a lot of new high-rises but what does that matter? Phoenix's DT area is still dead much of the time. The problem is there aren't many notable attractions to draw more people to the central district.
When I visited Phoenix with Dad, we were both puzzled at how America’s largest state capital (by population) had such a lackluster and nondescript downtown. Also, it’s strange how Phoenix has America’s largest suburb (Mesa) that doesn’t really have much of a downtown or a distinctive identity.
Mesa does have a pretty nice downtown on the light rail but not as busy as Tempe
I doubt it’s the largest by population, did you mean land area?
@@WizDaPenguin, we visited the State Capitol and learned that Phoenix is the largest capital by population (not including the metro area), followed by Austin, TX; Columbus, OH; Indianapolis, IN; and Denver, CO to round up the top five.
Downtown Mesa is a large, walkable area with lots to do. Tons of restaurants and really cool locally owned specialty shops!
@@WizDaPenguin It's the largest state capital in population. Wouldn't know it by the looks of DT. It resembles a much smaller city.
I live in Tempe, near the Downtown area but when the weather is nice I do visit the downtown of Mesa and Phoenix on the light rail - so I consider the downtown concept extended over several areas - Mesa is more Main Street (small town), Tempe is a College Town and Phoenix is more Big City so a bit of everything. By the way, all these areas have new apartments going up so YIMBY across all three areas - huge need for new housing and the fact that much if it is going up around the Light Rail System is great!
at 3:50, look to your right, that's the district built out of the arenas. You simply didn't look the right direction, you're looking toward the railyard and industrial district. Idk how you missed that
PHX resident here, I absolutely agree. It’s the capital of horrendous land usage. Tucson is way cooler. It’s sad to see so much palo verde + saguaro forest (which is exceptionally rare) bulldozed for dystopian hellscape. I’m convinced the developers were heavily inspired by call of duty’s Nuke-town map.
I thought by Arizona law they had to at least relocate any saguaro cactus...
Tucson is a bit of a dump. I'll take the east valley any day.
coooler in temp ya, bru said TUSCON the place in competition with casa grande?
“Tucson is way cooler”😭🤣
Nah, Tempe and Mesa are way cooler than Tucson or Phoenix
I think the location of the airport stunted phx downtown growth. Theres probably a height limit for buildings there.
You don't need a tall skyline to have a vibrant downtown that's not a good excuse. Boston's skyline has the same restrictions and it has a very vibrant downtown.
@@kfen8794Boston is a great city! I hope CoP looks at their downtown and implement some the things they are doing. Phoenix doesn’t need super tall skyscrapers for its downtown to be great. They got the right vision going with Roosevelt Row and Central Station later this year. If they can just build a really nice entertainment district it will take their downtown to a new level.
4:23 there are like 5 new high rises going up at this very moment in this district, I'm genuinely unsure you've even been here.
Maybe the laziest video on phoenix that's been made
Thank you for this video. Phoenix never invested in their downtown, instead it went for more sprawl and roads. It’s very interesting to see a city doing great economically but it not translate to its downtown. I know Downtown Phoenix has becoming increasingly more dense the last ten years but there’s still so many empty lots. I’m glad you brought up the FAA because I think the city needs to address this issue if it wants to build up. I do love how the airport is so close to downtown Phoenix but I don’t understand why there are height restrictions. San Diego has their downtown close to their airport and they are able to build an impressive skyline. The city has to draw ppl to downtown Phoenix as well by building a true entertainment district and enough retail so that ppl can shop and for clothes and groceries. Currently, there is no entertainment district and the amount of retail is laughable, but there are multiple projects being built that will bring a substantial amount of retail to downtown Phoenix and the city is in the early stages of coming up with an entertainment district. Phoenix seems to be taking a very slow and cautious approach to building up their downtown which has always been Phoenix’s approach to development.
I'm pretty sure SD has height restrictions in the flight path and the downtown area is a bit offset from that. Dunno if you were around for it, but before the Cardinals built jiffy pop stadium out in Glendale, there was a proposal to build one directly in the flight path in Tempe -- as I recall, it was championed by one of the Tempe council members who evidenally hates planes flying over the river and wanted to force a flight path realignment by sticking a stadium in the way... FAA was like: you're planning on building a stadium and having planes fly directly overhead with only 100ish feet of clearance... not a smart idea and we can't move that flight path so... I think they tried to do it again recently with the Coyotes this time and the FAA shot them down because they also tried to throw a highrise condo tower into the plan.
4:24 who wants to stroll around a city in +110F heat? When it's that hot in Vegas, tourists are inside air conditioned casinos.
Mesa’s downtown is designed for the heat. All the historic buildings have awnings on them, which provide shade to the sidewalks.
Not true. Visit Vegas in the summer and you'll see people walking up and down the strip even when it's 110 degrees. The strip is both walkable and vehicle-centric with lots of attractions, so it's busy all times of the day, all times of the year.
Small downtown, not having freeways outside of I-17 and a small part of U.S. 60 until 1990... I'm learning a lot about the metro area I moved to last year recently.
Good video but I really do find it hard to take it seriously when you made the glendale mistake so prominently and repeatedly. Glendale has no skyline. You almost certainly saw uptown phoenix.
Understandable. New channel here, and that video was one of my first that required any sort of heavy research tying into what I was seeing with my own eyes. As with anything, more experience will mean more accuracy. I'll admit I'm not wikipedia or anything, but in my more recent videos I pride myself on my accuracy and preciseness, and I hope you find that to be the case as well :)
@fourthplace You’re also incorrect about Phoenix being an “early adopter” of highways lol. A lot of Phoenix highways were built since the 90s really without federal grants. Roadguy Rob has a great video called “Phoenix without freeways” on this. You’ve really got to do better research if you’re going to do explainer videos man.
@@MoonShine-o5nhe just said it's one of his first videos bud. Give him a break. And neither of these points conflict with his overall point which is true. Phoenix is reliant on cars and the suburbs are the places with things to do.
@@theamaeve8175You can't do explainer videos with so many mistakes lol. And this isn't something unique to Phoenix at all. It's super basic to hate on the Phoenix area when it's actually pretty great. It's why people move here.
All US metro areas are like this.. Atlanta, Dallas, LA, etc. they have boring Downtowns. Any major metro except NYC, Chicago, Nola, Nashville, Vegas and a few have boring downtowns.
@@MoonShine-o5n also saying Central Phoenix has no local business when 7th Ave and street in Midtown have so many local businesses
Phoenix has by far the worst downtown I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been to LA’s downtown. It’s dead on nearly every weekend. Sporting events and first fridays bring a bit more foot traffic but otherwise nothing else does.
You hit the nail on the head describing the suburbs, Phoenix is, in essence, one big suburb of 5 million people. It is completely designed for people who only desire to live the sprawling, car hungry lifestyle. Tempe is the only place going in the opposite direction and it’s thankfully moving very quickly there.
You probably haven’t been to Roosevelt Row (especially on First Friday) or to any of Downtown Phoenix’s many trendy bars and clubs
Give it another shot!
They talk about Roosevelt Row in the video. It’s identified as one of the few nice areas downtown. Given that Phoenix is one of the largest cities in the country, they should be doing much better.
@@benjamincornia7311
Roosevelt Row isn’t the only good area of downtown. The area around the arena and ballpark are nice as well, with Heritage Square, the AZ Science Center, etc.
Outside downtown but still within Phoenix there’s also Uptown, with old but gentrified neighborhoods, there’s the Biltmore/North Central area, there’s Arcadia, one of the more well-off parts of Phoenix, there’s the environs of Paradise Valley, etc
@@benjamincornia7311 there’s more than just Roosevelt Row, though
The East part of downtown, around the sports venues, the Arizona Science Center and Heritage Square is nice too
Outside downtown there are other great parts of Phoenix too, like Midtown, Uptown, Arcadia and North Central
@@coyotelong4349 That is true. There is more, but I still agree with the video and this comment. Go to other major cities of comparable size or even plenty of other smaller cities: Las Vegas, San Antonio, Charlotte, even Salt Lake City, they all do better jobs at giving people a reason to go to the heart of downtown and I don’t get that with Phoenix. Phoenix is a great place to live and I have hope that it continues to grow and improve, but the downtown area needs attention from city officials and developers.
The only thing holding the Valley if the Sun down is the residents of the Valley:
- Here in the valley, property value is affected by the views of the mountains, proximity to water, as well as the noise level. Nobody can build above 5 stories without special permits, and it's almost impossible to do residentially because the neighbors sue before construction begins to protect their property values.
- I worked at a truss plant in Gilbert. The plant has been there for 30 years near downtown, and the train delivers the lumber. When they started building houses on the other dide of the train tracks, they started to complain about the noise . The law was in favor of the new houses so the whole plant had to move, even though the plant was there and opperating 20+ years before the houses were built.
Downtown Phoenix needs a mall or a small store center. There’s only an Urban outfitters. Glendale and Scottsdale have that. It’s the only reason we go to those places. Same with Chandler.
No it doesn't. It has had one for decades, the Arizona Center. I loved living across the street from it, because it had a full-sized movie theater, but that mall was dead all day, every day. The life of downtown was centered on Roosevelt Row and other places. The mall is a dead space in the area.
Don't forget park mall
Retail is severely missing in downtown Phoenix but there are two big projects going up that should have retail space.
@@Truthfully_Marvin where are they located?
Nah.. just more apartments all around downtown and areas north, south of there.. more coffee shops, breweries, hangout spaces like what’s on Roosevelt.
If you come into phoenix from the west on I-10, you get a pretty great skyline view because you see all the buildings along central ave through downtown and not just downtown.
Tempe does feel like the new Phoenix I’m 21 and from when I was a kid it was a town but Tempe feels like a city now
It hasn't always been as built up as it is now, but Tempe has been the place to go for the younger crowd since at least the 90s.
Glendale skyline???
Likely has to mean Midtown Phoenix or maybe Biltmore. Other than those two places and downtown Tempe and downtown Scottsdale, there are no tall buildings anywhere in the metro.
I went to a convention in downtown Phoenix and I was surprised how boring and barren it was in terms of things to do. Many homeless wandering around and restaurants catering to the business people working there but generally culturally barren. I’ve been to all the other cities you mentioned and agree with you that Phoenix could do more.
It was frustrating staying at a hotel in downtown Phoenix because I felt trapped in a barren landscape unless I got in my vehicle and drove to Scottsdale or Tempe. At least some of the neighborhoods just north of downtown had some interesting locations here and there, but they were rather scattered.
5:12 Phoenix was not an early adopter to freeways, they built all but two in the 80's and 90's
The first free ways were the Black Canyon freeway and interstate 10 which actually just melded into phoenix streets for most of its path before being dug into the ground.
Some cities don't really have impressive skylines, like Washington DC, Tokyo, Osaka, almost all European cities. My city of Pittsburgh has an amazing skyline, but at ground level, it is kinda not really that great. DC, as well as Japanese and European cities do have a better street life, although Pittsburgh is very walkable. Skylines really aren't that important for livability, street level is more important.
Downtown Phoenix is the jam. Delicious food, great music Venues, and a solid lineup of bars. Probably didn’t get a chance to experience it.
I will say that there are some good points in this video, but many of the videos and footage that are used in this are extremely outdated and the Phoenix skyline is growing more than ever. Phoenix is connecting its midtown to its downtown area with two new projects set to break ground by the end of this year helping adjust the city's skyline for the better. Along with those two projects is the new Astra Phoenix tower which will be the cities first official skyscraper (finally). Additionally, a new entertainment district is set to come soon that will replace the convention centers south building and bring two hotel rooms with 1,200 rooms and entertainment in the area. I'd also like to add that Roosevelt row is still growing and there is currently plenty of construction in the area and many new stores. Phoenix isn't Chicago or New York but it is certainly on the right path of living up to its potential.
I lived in Austin for three years..6th street was the place to go!!! I would attend the Esther’s Follies comedy show every Saturday night!!!
Phoenix seems to prioritize creating opportunities for its residents like jobs, housing, and land availability over just focusing on building skyscrapers. It's essential to balance growth with ensuring the well-being and prosperity of the community. By focusing on these aspects, the city can sustain its rapid growth while maintaining a high quality of life for its residents.
part of the reason for this is because phoenix really meshes into all the other cities right next to it, it's basically all one big mega-city. hell, they even all share the same road system, with central running up and down phoenix proper and every other north-south road within some 20 miles is named based on direction and distance from central, and that covers, like, 5 different "cities".
it's like if you looked at a human arm, and asked, "why doesn't this thing have a mouth? how do humans eat?"
you're only confused about it because of a meaningless distinction. The Phoenix Metropolitan Area functions, not as the many nearby cities that it legally is, but as one, large city.
That's a great point. Phoenix seems to prioritize creating opportunities for its residents like jobs, housing, and land availability over just focusing on building skyscrapers. It's essential to balance growth with ensuring the well-being and prosperity of the community. By focusing on these aspects, the city can sustain its rapid growth while maintaining a high quality of life for its residents.
I do not live in Arizona, but I can tell you this based on my personal experience as others here have or would agree...
1. Downtown Phoenix is very small. It has never grown it in its size as much as other major cities have. That includes its building density.
2, The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) put a restriction on building height because of their main east/west flight path passing very close to the south of DTPHX That alone has all but put a halt on the "growth" of its skyline and it shows. It was even worse 30 years ago.
3, The buildings you likely are thinking of are just to the north in Midtown Phoenix along Central Avenue. Can mainly get confusing for those visiting for the first time when looking from the west or east. Some of the blame in having to build more "tall" office buildings is because of those FAA restrictions.
4. Since Phoenix is such a large city and growing quickly in population, it is like Los Angeles where it is very spread out and areas have their own "population centers" Easily comes to mind... Tempe's growing skyline although not impressive, but it has one. Then there is Phoenix's other satellite cities in Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Goodyear, Peoria, Surprise and Glendale. You can even add rapidly growing Buckeye to far west. All these areas have enough people and commercial development where one does not have to go into downtown Phoenix for many of the needs residents have close to them. So that unfortunately impacts DTPHX in that way... you did bring up this reason (suburban sprawl) in your video. Downtown Los Angeles has the same problem.
Tempe is not the "new Phoenix". Their downtown area is centered mostly around Arizona State University. It does have in that part of Tempe a number of corporate headquarters to Fortune 500 companies, but it is even smaller concentrated along Tempe Town Lake. The rest of Tempe to the south is more so of lower to middle class income homes mixed with some upper class neighborhoods. But it still is not Phoenix.
Overall, downtown Phoenix will not grow unless it gives residents a big reason to move there. And bring MORE big business downtown.
It appears that the city of Phoenix is trying to bring more development downtown by redrawing its central business corridor further south, west and east. Hopefully that will spark development further south of downtown Phoenix. Hopefully the city follows through with their entertainment district plans for downtown Phoenix, which should bring more foot traffic.
@@Truthfully_Marvin The problem with extending downtown SOUTH is that you cannot build large commercial buildings (or skyscrapers) that direction from where the downtown district is now. The FAA will not allow that. They already have a restriction on building height and it would take a change in those restrictions and impacted existing city, county and state laws to scale back or remove those restrictions. I would expect more development north, not south.
It was years ago when I lived in Phoenix, but I remember driving down the interstate freeway that passes by downtown. Driving north to south, on my left was downtown Phoenix, and on my right was a farm. Yes, a farm practically in the center of Phoenix! The other thing I noticed was this city was designed with nothing but endless spawl in mind. About every mile, running north to south, is a major road named in numerical order: 10th Avenue, 11th Avenue, etc. Same thing with major east to west roads. So the result is a bunch of quadrants, and within each quadrant are smaller suburban residential streets. Once I drove out to Southern California for vacation and waaay out of town I would see an occasional dirt road with a number already assigned (e.g. 200th Avenue). Seriously, they were obviously laying down plans for the "city" to spawl *hundreds* of miles into the desert.
I think a reason why Tempe has its own attractive downtown is the fact it's the home of Arizona State University, and as such has a lot of growth in that city like Lansing and Ann Arbor in Michigan. Besides, as you mentioned in the video, due to Sky Harbor Airport being so close to downtown, a lot of high-rise construction is out of the question.
why is downtown las vegas even smaller?
they're of similar population?
Las Vegas is far smaller than Phoenix. Metro area of 2 million vs 5 million. City population of 650k vs 1.7 million.
@@jdog22c34 not if you compare the city of phoenix alone to las vegas and every part of suburban clark county that has a las vegas address.... it's practically even at that point
@@OGStoneVegas You want to compare all of the Vegas metro to just the city of Phoenix? Why?
@@jdog22c34 no i'm comparing the population of Phoenix to Las Vegas and all places that have a Las Vegas address... do you know how that works? do you realize that the Las Vegas Strip, and huge areas to the east, west and south are not a part of the city of Las Vegas, but have Las Vegas addresses, right? i'm not including mesa, tempe, henderson or north las vegas.
@@OGStoneVegas ridiculous. Areas outside Vegas city limits are suburbs. Adding some suburbs to the comparison and not others makes zero sense.
phoenix has two sections of skyscrapers (not including tempe), not sure why
As someone who moved from Michigan to Arizona 6 years ago, I find Tempe more visibly attractive compared to Phoenix. Even though Tempe Town Lake is man-made, it does remind me of the Detroit River. One thing I wish both cities had were more trees and shaded spots - Arizona summers are insanely hot.
Opening the video with damn near a 20 year old photo of downtown Phoenix is wild lmao. The point of the video absolutely still stands, but a decent amount of progress was made in that time so it’s still pretty misleading even if not completely incorrect.
Growing up in PHX you worked or went to school, at night, you go to Sobsdale to play. On holidays, you head to Chandler or Glendale. The only thing going was the state fair or basketball at the Madhouse on Mcdowell and 19th ave. Today I take the 303, 101, and the 202 to avoid downtown as much as possible.
Those pictures in the opening sequence are quite outdated. There’s been at least 20 or so more high rises built in the last 5 years
I live in the suburbs. We have our own fancy little downtown if I ever feel like going out. In fact we hardly ever go to DT Phoenix unless its for a specific event.
Phoenix native here -- if you didn't like it now, you'd have absolutely hated it about 10-15 years ago, it was downright depressing. Now its actually kinda picking up a bit, no explosion of highrises just yet (and honestly thats a bit unlikely ever), but there is a bit of a nightlife developing. Cityscape on Central between Washington and Jefferson is ok -- I've seen quite a few comedy shows and bands at copper blues over the years. Along Monroe you have Seamus McCaffrey's, Cornish Pasty, Valley Bar, Melindas Alley, Huss Brewery... a bit south of there you have Bitter & Twisted, Bar Smith, Crown Public House. You can definitely go bar hopping and have a good time and there are a handful of late-night eateries around as well.
The how we got here is a bit more interesting though. I mean the growth rate and cheap land offered little incentive to build up, and freeways were still being built well into the 2000's... the 51 which is now considered old was still being built in the 90's... so getting to downtown from the outlying areas took forever - like getting to say 32nd and Bell from downtown could be a 90-minute drive. With the vastly improved infrastructure, I'm moderately optimistic the downtown area will continue to become a bit more vibrant and that the revitalization projects won't fail the same way they have in the past.
Even though it's surrounded by freeways it's still another 5-10min drive to get there once you are off. To not interfere with the airport flight path, I would expand northwest towards the17/10 intersection. At least to 19th avenue. Incorporate library park, bolin memorial plaza, capitol museum etc. Transportation hubs and parking at the edges, next to freeways to reduce traffic. Incorporate trams, trolleys etc. at those hubs. Last but not least housing, housing, housing. Sorry, palmcroft, del norte and story. Expand ecanto park south incorporating memorial coliseum, fair grounds to intersect with downtown. There is your central park.
I love Tempe, but it's downtown will never rival Phoenix's. All of those tall buildings are being built for ASU students. Could that eventually change? Tempe hopes so. Still, students don't make for a dense downtown alone. Tempe Town Lake is a high-rent office district, but not too tall. A HUGE development called South Pier is being built (over the next decade) on the lake, too. Still, Tempe will never have the tallest nor the most highrises. Furthermore, downtown Phoenix is exploding with new highrise development, including a new tallest for the state right now.
On the topic of nightlife, I lived in downtown Phoenix for a decade. I currently live a 15-minute drive away and visit often. I lived a short walk from downtown Tempe for a couple years. Tempe's nightlife is entirely college-oriented. If you're not 22 or younger, you're skipping it. Downtown Phoenix is far more interesting for anyone older. I loved the nightlife there, along Roosevelt Row for example. The problem with Phoenix's nightlife is that it is easy to miss, if you don't know where to look. Tempe's downtown, on the other hand, is geographically tiny, so missing its nightlife is impossible, if you're downtown.
that other skyline you saw was uptown phx. as for the 3 "downtown areas", downtown tempe is easily the best. probably because of ASU
The section at 1:38 is NOT true. And I think it’s a bit ridiculous to say that when you don’t actually live here. Tempe is great but is not more prominent of a city compared to Phoenix, Maybe more dense, but central Phoenix (especially near Roosevelt) is amazing and in my opinion the best area of the metro.
Don’t agree that it’s the best part of the metro but it’s good and I don’t see Tempe becoming the main city in the Valley or anything..
Phoenix used to have an Amtrak terminal but is was discontinued around the mid nineties. I heard that it's coming back, soon.
phoenix metro lightrail is awesome. I take it from tempe to games all the time
While the Glendale reference was puzzling (before the correction), much of this is accurate. Phoenix and Los Angeles are somewhat similar in this regard. They are hugely spread out, even just within the city limits and not including the suburbs, but with disproportionally small downtowns. There is a lot of construction currently in downtown Phoenix, and since it's largely mid/high-rise - dense - residential, it will be interesting to see the eventual impact.
How are you judging the size of downtown Phoenix? By surface area or the height of the buildings? We don't have skyscrapers because downtown is in the flight path of Sky Harbor Airport. As far as the actual area that consists of downtown Phoenix, not even Phoenicians seem to agree on what is "downtown." Some would say that downtown extends along Central Avenue to Camelback Rd. Some say Phoenix has two downtowns. I say thank God we're not like L.A. or NYC.
Why does Phoenix need to follow every other major city? Maybe they prefer it that way with low rise sprawl. Just move to NYC or Chicago
the colorado river is not in texas
There is a Colorado River in Texas. It’s just not as large as the one in Arizona.
You never been to Texas huh? There’s more than one Colorado River
It's grown actually.
I've lived all over the country. Phoenix metro has been the best spot. The hate it receives is mind boggling. Thinking a metro area needs an anchor city downtown is 20th century thinking and fails to understand the metro.
Same! I’ve lived across the country too and decided I wanna settle down here. It’s pretty awesome.. especially love East Valley. It’s very basic to hate on the Phoenix area lol..
Pheonix and LA seem very similar. Small downtown with huge urban sprawl.
I live in Phoenix- and can confirm: the life and rapid growth of Phoenix is nowhere to be found in the center, but rather in the outmost suburbs (although all still connected), like Avondale, Surprise, and Goodyear, where nice new areas are being put up and filled at a rapid pace. I never go downtown, except for maybe a concert, sports game, or legal/business errand.
There is a historical district in downtown Phoenix, you didnt search for it. Both ASU and the University of Arizona have schools and students downtown. Old town Scotsdale is the main entertainment location, then Mill Ave the ASU district. The Phoenix area has several cities over 200,000 with their own entertainment areas such as Gilbert, Chandler, Tempe, Glendale and Scotsdale. As far as downtown Phoenix it has a convention center and first fridays. Perhaps, your bad accessment is from a lack of understanding that at one time there are vast cheap land for developement in the all the surrounding cities of Maricopa county. If you see the vast development in downtown San Diego as an example Phoenix is slowly headed to redefine its downtown area. As a person who moved to Phoenix is 2005 perhaps you have a negative set of glasses and do not see the measures that Phoenix has taken to revise it.
Phoenix is a new city...it does not have the infrastructure that older cities needed (like public transportation, apartments in downtown, markets and stores for downtown residents without cars, etc..) This city grew up in a modern era...I grew up in Dallas...where there was in there was a vibrant downtown scene...but today...the city has faded to look much like Phoenix is...suburban life has taken hold...
Moving into Maricopa county is a trap.
Never move here it’s awful expensive and hot. The water is trash and the air is like when you open an oven. It’s designed to keep you indoors and looking for work. We can’t wait to move back towards the East coast.
You’d be more disappointed if you visit downtown LA, especially before 20 years ago.
I live about 10 mins away, I am extremely disappointed on a daily basis lol
Skyharbor is 5 miles from downtown and in the path of airtraffic, thus limiting the height of buildings downtown.
I think many us cities have disappointing skylines compared to, say, East Asia is because the country is so open and empty that suburban sprawl can still happen, and there isn't much need to build up instead of out. But then again, Canada is even more open and has better skylines, but they value their nature so there's that.
I have been to Phoenix several times...there is a park in downtown next to the stadium..it is nice...but that is about it...
In the 90's, Phoenix tore down every building with character downtown to build almost everything you mentioned . Roosevelt Row used to be a thriving arts district until the corporations bought it out and gentrified it.
Most overrated metro in the nation. Reason: Almost all was built after the 1920s
Phoenix was pumped by CA costs/taxes, Rustbelt economy and immigration. I was under impressed when first visiting
Because you're an idiot and you didn't know what to do with your time. We have the most iconic peaks, desert landscape and hikes in the whole country. Good riddance. Don't come back
Honest question, is it really hyped up from people not from here? I grew up here and always felt like it was the lamest city, at least out west. It’s got its pros and all, but u always felt disconnected from the “city” aspect of it.
Overrated? Who the hell is hyping PHX up for you 😂 @@chuexsy672
That would be Austin. Everybody just hates on Phoenix. I don’t get why white people go nuts over Austin lol. It’s just two blocks with crappy bars, fake taco trucks and it’s done.
@@MoonShine-o5nonly white libtards
Phoenix is not a very old city compared to other capitals, and there's still a lot of construction going on, downtown buildings will eventually connect with the ones on uptown (not sure if that's what you confused with Glendale). The light rail keeps expanding and it will connect other cities on the west.
Regadring the height, who wants higher buildings that would prevent us from seeing south and camelback mountains, or our beautiful sunsets. There's so much to do in Phoenix and the cities nearby, you just got to know where to go. If anything we try to stay away from downtown, because we don't like density.
Also, we don't really dig "wakable" designs, unless is winter, no one in ther sane mind wants to go walk on concrete streets walled-up by tall structures. One thing I do wish downtown would get rid off is its one-way streets, but I guess that's the best option to keep traffic flowing.
One thing that does needs to be addressed in downtown (like in LA, San Francisco, Denver, and many other cities) is homeless camps, lately trash and road maintenance are also becomingban issue.
Hey, overall the video is pretty good. I don't disagree that the downtown is small at all. I will say it used to be small and absolutely DEAD but in the last 15 years or so it has greatly improved. The development of ASU downtown has really brought a lot of life to the area. During that time some great music venues and restaurants have popped up in the area that are now staples to the neighborhood. So, if you think it's not great compared to other cities, fair play, but with the context of what it was before it's definitely headed in the right direction.
From an urbanist perspective, they built out the light rail and are even doing construction to a new line that will go south from downtown.
One thing that i think works against Phoenix is that people in Arizona do not care as much about walkable neighborhoods and high density live/shop/play areas because in the summer at least, Phoenicians typically avoid being outside completely. It's too hot to even walk short distances.
I live here my whole life and this foo really doesn't know what he's talking about.... bars, sports, restaurants, and always something going on downtown... it wouldn't be on the map if I'm lying
Yeah but there’s plenty of big cities with tiny downtown areas 😂
Yeah that’s pretty much every major American metro area.. not sure what this guy is on😅
@@MoonShine-o5n he likes using his microscope 🤣
phoenix native here & our downtown will be super sick in like 25 years but holy shit is it lame now 😭
With the recent construction restrictions in Phoenix, you may just get your wish. I'm currently visiting the city, and you couldn't be more right. There's a ton of sprawl, and plenty to do whereim at that I don'tneed to visit their downtownat all.
the fact that downtown phoenix is “small” and is still the 5th biggest city is proof that a large skyline isn’t that important when considering size lol
Downtown phx is all central ave 😅😅..I'm from ny and was shocked how small it was. That said phx itself(including every part like Scottsdale, tempe etc) is one of the best except for summer
Nobody rides trains so who cares, Phoenix is a top five city and is spread out so we have lots of mid sized mall and entertainment areas it’s better that way if everything was in down town Phoenix for five million people nobody would get to enjoy anything nobody could park and it would make no sense. Phoenix is spread out and the grid system makes getting anywhere easy. On a low traffic day you can go from down town phx to any of the main five suburbs in 15-25 min at most.
i live here. it's 115 now. no one wants to be outside on bikes or walking. so there's that.
ppl live in the burbs. they go on for miles. east valley is nice. booming. yeh you have to have a car. but again - see the temps.
Yeah, he said he was here in January. It's a delight to be outside during that time of the year, I wonder if he would think the same about walking down Mills Ave during this time.
Yep. They advocate for the same walkability in every part of the country. It’s downright dangerous to be walking out in Phoenix or even Dallas summers.. or lets say Minnesota winters.
I'm from Scottsdale, I never go the phoenix for anything but an occasional suns game
Phoenix is a monument to mans hubris. Dont take that from a Mike Judge character quote, take it from a Tucson resident.
You left out one important part, how the heat affects everything.
Here's a comparison:
Phoenix metro population: 5 million
Charlotte metro population: 2.8 million
Phoenix # of buildings over 400 feet tall: 2
Charlotte # of buildings over 400 feet tall: 17
Phoenix tallest building: 483 feet
Charlotte tallest building: 871 feet
I mean the answer is simple. Its a retirement region. Theres no need for regional headquarters there because of the late in life transplants.
ASU isnt going to sustain much growth by itself and the rest of the region is literally dying.
Two reasons: Urban Spawl forever and FAA (Sky Harbor is so close preventing tall skylines)
Urban sprawl it could take up 2 2 hours to get across the city from north to south or from suburbs It is a widespread city not Built vertically Live there for many years
first that pic is at least 8 years old (banner University hospital built 2016 not there) and 18 new buildings have been built since then. second downtown is in skyharbor flight path and limits building heights. third phoenix is newer city and developed very different than older cities.
I dunno, call me crazy but I think other metro areas that only have one "downtown" area are not as good as those that have multiple downtown-like areas (as mentioned in this video about Gilbert , Tempe, Scottsdale, Glendale, Chandler, etc). More choice and diversity is always a good thing.
Your channel is called Fourth Place, yet you’re covering Phoenix… The fifth place city in the US for population 🤔
Jokes aside, I’ve definitely noticed the small size of downtown while I’ve been in Phoenix for college. Literally the only time I go downtown is to watch baseball. When I look at Phoenix from the air (in a plane), I usually can’t tell where downtown is. Phoenix is a very spread-out city.
Phoenix is lame, but it’s getting better and growing. I wouldn’t say it’s much but it’s something.
Yeah, PHX downtown is just business and banks. It has no flare or any character, just bland, concrete and hot. I find it depressing if I even worked in that area.
Well, downtown Phoenix is getting better. 15 years ago, downtown was dead. It's really changed in the past 10 years. Plus, there's more buildings that are planning on breaking ground soon.
I first saw it in 2016.. it’s night and day compared to then. Same with Downtown Tempe.
Hahaha, Downtown Phoenix is so small and not much to do, yet I spent 30 minutes finding parking on a Friday night because every bar, restaurant, club and venue was packed...in late August where temps are in the high 90s. The reason why you couldn't find much to do is because you don't know where people go. And Austin as a comparison? really?! One major thing missing from the comparison with Austin is the fact they have the Colorado river. Meanwhile, Phoenix has an aqueduct that flows to bring water in from the same river. Water is essential to the growth to any city, and when there is no source, of course growth is going to be limited. As it should be. People shouldn't populate the desert like they did. And the FAA regulation you barely mentioned is not some small thing. We literally can't have skyrises because of our proximity to the airport and the direction planes need to travel in and out of it. Yes, DT Phoenix is small and will never be a major city like Vancouver, LA, Chicago and Austin. Why build monolithic structures up, when we have a lot of natural monoliths that surrounds that have far more to offer then any concrete filled city.
It will be very hard for Phoenix ever to have an impressive downtown since so much of it was built and designed horribly in the first place and public transportation TO downtown is pretty much a joke. With confusing one-way streets designed by sadistic traffic engineers, peek-a-boo parking, and almost nothing free to do or see, there is just no reason to go there unless it is teeth-pullingly necessary.
Ironically, the downtown of OLD Phoenix (see the beginning of the movie, Psycho) was actually more impressive, but the buildings were flattened, the charm removed, and useless low-rise and mid-rise office buildings were built. Too late now.
Downtown is where people go for work. The entire rest of the valley is for entertainment.
The city is actually melting from all the heat ..it why there is so much urban sprawl.
You should have seen it 10 years ago. 👻 town. It’s still a work in progress.
Ngl i thought downtown pheonix was normal size
This guy doesn't know half of what he's saying
You must mention first Friday when you talk about downtown Phoenix. The speakeasy’s and night life is nice. Not great, definitely not boring.