Why Is Downtown Los Angeles So Small?
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
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Black Lives Matter.
my grandma grew up in LA in the 20s and 30s. She always talked about having a farm and horses, and I never understood why she described LA as sounding so rural. Apparently back then it was!
Before the invention of AC that was the situation for most of the sun belt
My God
Nice
Quick question off topic if you can ask your grandma does she remember any of the iconic downtown LA buildings getting built ?
@@alex818k i dont want to be rude or anything towards the persons grandma but if she was a teen in the 20’s lets think about how old she would be i dont think shes alive anymore
For a weird case study, look at Vancouver's metro area. It also had a history like LA, where many surrounding suburbs started as major hubs in their own right back in the day (including the former capital city of New Westminster) before "growing into" each other. The difference between Vancouver and LA is the downtown. Vancouver's is highly densified and has a large residential population. And a lot of that can be attributed to the lack of freeways within city limits and focus on public transit. The suburbs, meanwhile, continue to boast their own downtowns, which connect to downtown Vancouver via transit in a hub-and-spoke format. And each suburb is an independent city, with its own mayor and council, just like the LA area. It kinda makes you wonder what LA could've been like, had a few things turned out differently.
that’s why I’m moving to BC lol screw LA
I assume you're talking about Canada's Vancouver
Edit:
Can everyone stop giving me shit. Jeez.
City Beautiful is from USA and he didn't say which Vancouver. Maybe Vancouver, Washington is a friendly city with nice public infrastructure and non car centric areas.
Vancouver, BC, Canada is nice place to. Got relatives there.
@@TrickiVicBB71I always assume it's Vancouver BC unless the commenter specifically specifies it is "Vancouver" in Washington, USA.
Same for London, I automatically assume it's in the UK, not "London" in Ontario, Canada.
*Edited as I was way too aggressive 😂
@@TrickiVicBB71 Yes... There's no way we're talking about the Portland suburb.
This is a great comparison! Vancouver was also once a streetcar town.
Like you said, the key thing was blocking urban freeways. That's what pushed Vancouver to build residential towers Downtown, to stave of decline of the CBD in favour of suburban ones served by highways. I also think Downtown Vancouver had the gift of access to water, Stanley Park, and the North Shore mountains (Vancouver's main suburbs are more to the southeast). That's made it a really nice place to live.
I always wondered why LA didn't have many skyscrapers and why real estate was so expensive, this was a MAJOR piece of information that LITERALLY no one talks about.
The skyline has always looked empty
So earthquakes combined with the notion that LA and SB county are all on farmland
SD on the other hand is starting to look more like the "New York of Southern California"
Tons of new construction in DTSD and as an IE native, SD seems to be constructing urban development that focuses less on single occupancy vehicles and more on public transit. Their PRONTO app covers all forms of public transit and it was easy to use as a first timer this past summer!
Just my experience after watching this video
@@Splycr591 San Diego's downtown is bigger than LA's but like LA, lots of jobs are in the suburbs. Many of the growing biotech firms are based in North County since it's closer to UC San Diego.
@@PASH3227 and also SD have height restriction for building but not due to earthquake, but airport
@@PASH3227 yep, that was a big disappointment of my years in San Diego. They’re building a biotech hub in DTSD, but for now it’s sorrento or bust.
Even though transit in LA is considered to be terrible, about 50% of workers get to downtown LA by transit. With new transit lines getting built there (such as the purple line subway and the regional connector), it should allow the downtown to grow and become a more important hub for the region, rather than just one node among others
This number can really go up if the land use policies around existing stations can change and allow for them to become very dense walkable communities. The L-Line's stops are dominated by low density and park and rides. But if this was converted to high density mixed use, there would be several thousand more people who could take the transit into DTLA.
Nope … to much vagrancy & danger…not many work DTLA …
@@donaldawillis11 lol why do you think that area is dangerous? Because no one lives or works there, so there are no eyes on the street. Once it gets busier, it'll also get safer, the same way Manhattan is very safe because it is very busy
That's because in most American cities, Subway Lines and even Bus Lines Intersect in the Downtown area. But American Transit is terrible because most people want to travel from suburb to suburb. Which makes using Transit unethical.
@@Pyxlean how is it unethical to use transit
Los Angeles also has minimum parking requirements which limits the height of the buildings based on the amount of parking they could provide.
The damage by parking requirements is more severe when the space is more valuable as that means the opportunity costs were higher.
Not for long! Hopefully Gavin signs AB2097
DTLA 2040 Plan also removes height limits in the entire neighborhood. They will be nicer in the future!
LA simply needs to stop building for cars and build for people! There should be no parking, more buildings and public transportation.
big true, so many times i've had to include new parking in the middle of a redesign for something completely unrelated.
@@thebabbler8867 Agreed, but it's the chicken or the egg scenario with respect to public transit access first or density first.
4:27 didn't expect to see old footage of my home city Cork, Ireland here!
Back when we had trams. There's plans to build a new light rail but it's many years away.
No offense calling it "dirty"! They all were back then.
Same, I just spotted the corner building on bridge street and was like “wait a minute….”
I remember in the 1980's and early 1990's when downtown Los Angeles was incredibly unimpressive for a city of its size.
This was back when the downtown only had about 4 prominent skyscrapers. This was before the US Bank Tower or the Staples Center was built.
Same. First Interstate Tower was the only real standout.
Los Angeles never had much of a downtown area because the city annexed other neighboring cities and towns with established downtown cores over much of its history which held back the development of its own downtown core.
@@r.pres.4121 those other neighborhoods are distinct from each other. LA did not annex those cities as they were already part of LA
um, the us bank tower was built in 1987-89.
Yup. Staples didn't come until 99 and the Ritz next door didn't come until 2006
One thing you don’t mention is that two of LA’s signature industries-aerospace and Hollywood-were not ones that were given to being headquartered in a downtown. In these industries, corporate management tends to get located close to where the work is being performed. In the the case of aerospace, that was near the factories in Long Beach, the South Bay or the Valley. For the movie studios, management stayed in Hollywood or the Westside. The other signature industry, oil, did have headquarters in Downtown LA high rises (UNOCAL, ARCO), though I’m not sure that those headquarters are still there.
LA doesn't have a finance business consulting or fashion industry like NYC - hence its not downtown centric.
@@ahmedzakikhan7639 Every large American city tends to have a financial district of skyscrapers, even places like Kansas City and Cleveland. I can't for a minute believe LA doesn't have enough banking industry to support a larger downtown than it has.
@@michaelstratton5223 it has but small - hence small downtown NYC is a beast in business
Lol comparing Kansas City to LA, okay...if that's the standard.
@@ahmedzakikhan7639 The size differences of Kansas City and LA were exactly why I compared the two. Despite KC being remarkably smaller, the two cities have about the same amount of banking skyscapers, which is what I find weird. I would think LA could have a much bigger financial district than Kansas City, but it oddly doesn't.
@@michaelstratton5223 that's the point. The finance hub in California is San Francisco, not LA. Most banks and investment companies move to SF - which is why LA downtown is probably small than that of SF.
I think number of offices in LA is a fraction of Manhattan.
There was also a big push towards preserving historic buildings in downtown LA starting somewhere around the 1980's. Without that, some of the more charming buildings in desirable areas like the downtown library, the Bradbury Building, etc. would have been demolished. That part's fine with me. IMO the largest problem in downtown LA is there's more space for cars than people.
As a downtown resident, there is absolutely no space for cars. You aren’t even guaranteed a park space when you rent an apartment and even then it’s expensive and sometimes tandem
@@genzillennial the problem with downtown LA is you can't live there without a car. There are suburbs in Chicago that you could get by without owning a car! The key for high density living is no cars!
@@adas1988 um, what? have you ever been to LA? If you're living in downtown LA, you definitely do not need a car to get around, at least not within downtown itself.
@@amvin234 then why does the guy above me complain about no parking spaces? 😂😂😂 Do you live there?
@@adas1988 I'm not saying there aren't parking spaces in downtown, but if you think that you can't live in downtown without a car, then I suspect you haven't been there. If anything owning a car in downtown is a hindrance. There are metro stations all over, unlike the rest of the city. The parking is mostly for those living outside of downtown and visiting to work/play.
Just wanted to correct one your stats. Downtown LA was estimated in 2019 to actually have 85,000 residents, which gives it a population density around 14.5 thousand people per square mile, which, while still pretty paltry, is more in line with the rest of Central LA. In addition, in 2000 only 28,000 people lived in downtown, which just shows the tremendous growth that’s been occurring recently. That being said there is still a lot that needs to be done to encourage more density and walkability in the neighborhood and the city as a whole
Yeah, he's using the LA Times neighborhood mapping numbers which were an estimate from 2008 and that was near the beginning of growth downtown. Many tens of thousands have moved downtown since then. This video would have made more sense 15 years ago.
Koreatown and East Hollywood are denser than DTLA and it'll take lots of growth in Downtown to catch up.
Actually he is right I’m a rent paying resident in a nice studio loft. There’s a population estimates of 40,000-60,000 homeless mental health humans here. So ya there’s 90,000 people in this condensed space and the homeless population is growing everyday. So ya I feel sick.
dtla has been adding residents at a pretty briskly pace over the last 15 years. Using the data cited in comments above, that’s 50,000 new resident in the last 14 years. and it continues to grow
How many of those are homeless in skid row?
It’s always crazy to me how so many of the most population-dense neighborhoods in California are in and around Los Angeles. It’s a weird mix of parking lots and freeways but also lots of two and three story apartments
Basically, it was originally intended to be all single-family homes, but they reached the limit of what single-family homes could provide in terms of housing capacity.
Los angeles is known for paid parking
I used to work in downtown LA. Now retired. I haven’t been there for years and I live just 10 minutes away north of downtown. For shopping, eating out or just walking around, we prefer to hang out in the safe and clean City of Glendale.
If LA had a Chicago-like skyline against the San Gabriel mountains, Pacific ocean, and LA basin, it would look truly spectacular.
I grew up east of LA, and even as recently as the 70s there was tons of orchards, vineyards, and strawberry fields out there. It was intermingled within the cities. You might have a lemon orchard wedged in between a McDonalds and a bank. By the 90s it was almost all gone, but LA metro area was still pretty agrarian within living memory.
Makes me think of the lemon grove in Arrested Development.
@@michaelstratton5223 Never watched the show, but if the writers were familiar with LA in those days, I'm sure it would have been an influence.
@@LividImp Well one character buys a lemon grove property, he got it for super cheap but the realtor kind of duped him because it's been grandfathered into remaining as a military training range. So he gets to enjoy lemon trees with the occasional tank and artillery rolling through. The whole show is basically a caricature of everything that's wrong with southern California.
@@michaelstratton5223 I don't know man, I've lived here 50 years and that's not the California I know. We've got more empty desert than you can shake a stick at, no way you'd sacrifice good farmland for a military range. The only thing that out-values farmland is housing and the accompanying commerce. Except for the desert, land here is highly valued and pretty well managed overall. And for as much as people think of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, California is a farmers state. They have a ridiculous amount of political power here. Just not in the coastal cities.
Despite LA have a very infinitesimal skyline, I still love it by how interesting it looks. On March 25th, 2022, I went in the downtown area and went up in the Wilshire Grand Center, and I was absolutely flabbergasted of how beautiful the view was.
I love how the US Bank Tower is the centrepiece of the skyline with the mountains in the background
Im so glad to see im not the only one who likes dtla 😂
Yup, LA is actually a really beautiful city, but you need a good rain to clear out the pollution in order to truly appreciate it.
@@carlesc5497 same. I love LA so much, I'm from Chicago, I prefer Chicago more but both are 2 of my favorite US cities. I wanna go back soon.
@@allamasadi7970 yeah, it's recognizable. I wish the Skyslide never closed. But the Wilshire Grand Center observatory was so fun. I adored everything about it and I will never forget my experience
As a former resident of downtown LA and someone who works in this field, I think there are a couple missed points that should have been made.
First, I think you missed one of the most significant reasons as to why LA grew out and not up, which is geography. Downtown LA is not bound by geography like nearly every other major American city. Manhattan is an island, downtown Chicago has the lake and the rivers on either side, San Francisco is on a peninsula. Los Angeles had no such restraints, which made development out rather than up much more economical. It's only now, that the metropolitan area has reached its practical limits in terms of sprawl, that the city has begun to increase density around downtown.
Second, DTLA is in the midst of a massive housing boom, with multiple skyscrapers going up at any given time. Almost all of those new towers are housing. Entire new neighborhoods have gone up over the last 10-15 years, notably the high-end South Park area near the Staples Center and the Arts District. Also, I'm not sure where you got your statistic that DTLA is home to 35,000 people. The current estimate is that it is home to approximately 83,000 people, more than double your number. That number has significantly increased over the last few years and continues to do so. In fact, DTLA is the single fastest-growing community in the entirely of Los Angeles, with a population expected to more than double in the next few years. The DTLA 2040 community plan estimates added capacity for another 175,000 new residents by 2040. Try to find anywhere in the US planning for that much additional housing in such a small area over the next 18 years.
Sources
downtownla.com/business/dtla-by-the-numbers/residential-growth
la.urbanize.city/post/la-city-planning-commission-signs-dtla-2040
Chicago isn't geographically bound like you claim. The rivers do have some of an effect but the city's downtown and urban center in general ended up growing past them. The only direction Chicago couldn't expand is eastward north of Indiana, due to Lake Michigan. However, its greater urban center (areas that are directly connected without breaks in urban development) wraps around the lake. Everywhere south, west and north of Chicago is just flat land. And yet, Chicago still built up density.
There's more factors than just geography involved. Development trends, local industry needs and government divisions can play a big part in how a city develops as well.
Worked in Downtown in the 1990's. It was a ghost town after 6pm down there. Now, there are tons of people and condo high rises everywhere. You are right, though, Downtown feels like every other block has a residential tower being built on it.
The actual reasons are addressed in the video. Like the height restrictions stunted it's vertical growth. When the restrictions were lifted, businesses had already moved on other areas
In the end, it’s location. Downtown is far from the beach and if you live in LA, you want to be as close as you can to the water.
@@tonyinsf Not really. I live downtown and have no desire to live or be by the beach. I chose a dense walkable environment, close to work, play, cultural amenities and so on. I can get to the beach anytime.
I am from Michigan and Missouri and from my childhood to now have always had a love and fascination with skylines. To this day, I think that Chicago has the nicest skyline of any city in America.
Houston is impressive
@@spacecity7136 you’re funny 😄
@@spacecity7136 Houston’s skyline is impressive. Ppl fail to realize that Houston’s skyscrapers are scattered all around the city. Houston literally has major skyscrapers outside its downtown. It’s the 4th largest (formerly the 3rd) largest skyline in America. There isn’t a city in America with a building over 900 ft outside its downtown.
I agree Dennis. I see the Chicago Skyline 🏙️ from my rooftop in South Loop everyday 😎
From Chicago here and I love my city skyline one of the best in the country but I like NYC skyline better
As a young(ish) Angeleno I can assure you that there’s loads of us who are pushing to densify the LA area. Like you say, there’s some plans in the works but they’re slow.
I’m hopeful that the recent change by the State of California to no longer have SFH zoning will help speed this up a bit.
That would definitely make LA a much better city and a lot more livable too. And Public transit is very much needed here with how awful the traffic is.
There is an incredible opportunity for this sort of development. If you look a long existing transit lines the surrounding neighborhoods are usually low density, there might be a few apartment buildings, but there will be a surprisingly high number of parking lots. These are transit lines that could handle a large volume of people, but the neighborhoods around them are just not designed for it. However, they could be completely redeveloped. Allowing several thousand more people to have easy access to the station (door to door, less than a 500 meter walk).
Its sort of strange that there are lines like the L-Line which have stations which are surrounded by SFH. There are not enough people in the neighborhood to make it useful, and there are not enough destinations in the neighborhood to make it someplace people want to go to.
@@itzpro5951 😆 How many decades have they been saying that we need public transit improvements? The reality of it is that what would be necessary costs only a jillion dollars and over half of the population expects these infrastructure things to pay for themselves somehow. Nobody wants their standard of living to decline but they expect things around them to just improve by changing nothing.
@@BigBadJerryRogers this has been said only recently now actually. For many decades we've been car brained. We take this example from other international cities from Tokyo to Barcelona. American cities are bad as they are because of the lack of public transit and its especially bad in LA especially with the amount of traffic it suffers. The city can absolutely benefit from prioritizing public transit especially with its size. LA used to have the largest and best tram network in the world before the highways. You see the issue? Because you sure didn't get it at first.
@@itzpro5951 I don't know what you consider to be recently because I have lived here since 1997 and they were saying the exact same thing then, so I am sure that was the case before I arrived here. And again, the cost of what would be required would be astronomical. I'm sure Joe Manchin would love to just dole out a trillion dollars just for LA infrastructure right about now. Oh and when the Republicans get more control again? 😆 Yeah you can bet they will definitely be falling over themselves to get adequate funding for that pronto, Mitch McConnell loves spending money to help the people of this country. 🤣
LA’s downtown is quite large. You touch on it at the very end - Wilshire Blvd. Reyner Banham, in LOS ANGELES: THE ARCHITECTURE OF FOUR ECOLOGIES (1971) describes it as as “linear downtown,” and as a resident of LA for 30 years, that makes sense. The 20+ miles of Wilshire, with scattered 30 story buildings on each side, march to the ocean. (LA is not quite alone in this: Venice’s Grand Canal forms a similar linear structure.)
Yes, compared to San Diego its h u g e. Both cities are being destryed by "N e w U r b a n s m" pol1cies though.
I'm surprised that many haven't pointed this out, but the real business district in early Los Angeles was along Wilshire Boulevard. It's still one of the most dense parts of Los Angeles, especially the Korea town and Westlake sections
Great video! I love that you don’t fill these videos with irrelevant stock footage like many other channels do.
This video completely glossed over the Adaptive Reuse Ordnance of 1999. An overlooked feature of DTLA is the Historic Core. Unlike a lot of cities, downtown still has a very large collection of early 20th century buildings that sat empty for years and years (except for the retail areas that all kinds of retail from clothing to fake Louis Vuitton bags). Any other city would bulldoze such buildings. What the Ordinance did was allow those empty buildings to be converted into lofts, apartments, and condos. DTLA has around 80k people in it. 35k is just plain wrong.
You proved nothing.
It wrecked filming in Downtown though. The 90's and up to about 2010, was magical for filming in Downtown. After that, all the lofts came into being and too many residents and filming plummeted, along with digital tech, and runaway production to foreign countries and other easier-to-film states like New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana
LA's physical size for downtown seems in line with the overall city. It's true the skyline is smaller than you'd expect but I attributed it to earthquakes and tremors and the associated dangers. Besides being the administrative center of cities I've always thought the efforts put into the downtown business district was overstated. Very few people tend to live there compared to the inner city and suburbs. and downtown seems to attract a seedier element, especially after dark.
Small skyline syndrome
I love this channel so much! It actually answers random questions I've always had. 😅
Fantastic video, great analysis.
Why is Downtown Los Angeles so small? It is a more complex answer than even yours. Los Angeles didn’t adhere to the centralized city model and strong urban planning ethic that many other cities followed, especially prewar. The rich in Los Angeles won’t first turn to getting a high rise condo like in Manhattan, they are likely to get a mountainside house in the Santa Monica mountains. Why pay for a condo on a tower when you can get a much bigger property that you can easily drive to and from? If I was rich, I’d buy land I’d actually own rather than some theoretical airspace in a building.
Bro u know that rich ppl aren’t the only one that can afford to live in a condo tho right?😂
Not all wealthy people want to own a large tract of land with a mansion on it that they have to spend money on maintenance also home owners insurance is much more as well. In a luxury high rise condo you can cut your maintenance and insurance costs and still live in luxurious comfort.
I always wondered the same about Downtown
@@Chrisbx17 Why would you pay for a condo when you can own land? And it’s nice to have your car outside your house. The lifestyle was just more appealing than being holed up in a tower.
@@DL-zo6od u do realize that ppl like different things right? Some ppl don’t want the hassle of having to upkeep ur house and rather have an apartment where the landlord is responsible for that. Also a lot of condos come with they own parking garage
Why didn't Los Angeles built its own Empire State Building in the 1930s? Because it was the time of the Great Depression, and money for big construction projects was tight. Even ESB took twenty years to completely rent out its office space! (For a while it was nicknamed "the Empty State Building"...)
Thank you for this! I've always wondered about LA and why it looks so small.
I simply love your videos. Thanks a lot.
I think a similar phenomena happens here in Orlando, FL, but the reasons I think are building heights limits and soil instability, but also the urban sprawl and the relative higher importance of the theme parks over the downtown itself. Orlando Metro Area is the size of Beijing!
Orlando has a height limit because of the Executive Airport that is 2 miles to the east of Downtown.
Downtown Los Angeles is definitely growing. Just opened a restaurant there last year on 7th & grand. It’s incredible seeing all the new apartment buildings and construction going up around us and how quickly they get occupied
Main issue is homeless. Your lefty politicians will never fix it.
Wonderful video! Greetings from Bakersfield! I was always curious why this was.
Gotta keep that land value up with scarcity
They say we're running out of space but that's not true. We got plenty, but don't use it right.
@@austinhernandez2716 What people mean is there is little desirable space. Sure, there is plenty of space if you want an undesirable area.
@@austinhernandez2716 living space and actual space are not the same thing.
The expansion of cities is functionally limited by natural borders (rivers, mountain ranges, deserts, etc) but also artificial borders (highways, nearby towns, distance from centers of commerce, etc).
In terms of this space, we ARE running out because it's being occupied by car-centric single family homes, preventing dense housing and increasing the price of homes within city limits.
On top of this, moving is expensive. People are functionally limited to their local area when selecting housing.
I found it funny when he talked about how mostly rich people came to Los Angeles to build their single-family homes and mansions and how a lot of people wanted to get rich off real estate. That really explains why we're in the situation we are in today. The artificial squeeze on housing is not a recent thing as I thought, it's just the culmination of 100 years of urban planning by real estate interests in the area.
@@sor3999 Yeah to those rich real estate interests, they had a vested interest in increasing real estate values rather than actually housing people. Might even explain why people are suspicious of developers (although we really do need more of it). We shouldn't have a housing issue considering how much land we have but that's what we ended up with.
I love LA content! Especially when it provides great insight into its urban fabric. Good stuff!
That backstory about the urban development of Los Angeles reminds me a bit of Germany and Italy.
Germany and Italy were both decentralized regions without a single national government that could focus development on one primary economic center until the late 19th century.
Berlin, Hamburg, Rome, and Milan are pretty big cities now, but they are really nothing special compared to major American cities or London, Paris, Moscow, or Istanbul. Milan and Frankfurt have a few scyscrapers, but they are also pretty modest sized.
@@urlauburlaub2222 That last point about London is so true.
Berlin used to be third biggest city in the world in the 1920s. It had over 4 million people. The real problem is that it was split in two, lost half its population, and even nowadays, after two decades of rapid growth, it still only has 3.8 million people.
Also skyscrapers just aren’t a thing in Europe. Until 10 years ago, Frankfurt was the European city with the most skyscrapers.
Awesome video!
super interesting, great video!
Philadelphia, Chicago, New York City were huge population centers with well over one million people at the turn of the century in 1900, L.A. at that time had only 102,000 residents. Those cities had good head starts.
Up until even as recently as 10 years ago, downtown L.A. was primarily a commercial area. It had dilapidated apartment buildings littered about, but the Sky Scrapers were virtually all commercial. In the past L.A. was built out, rather than up. A big part of that had to do with earthquake codes, and for good reason. Now you are seeing downtown L.A. being built up, with virtually all the new high rises (not necessarily Sky Scrapers), being condos, apartments, etc.. In another 20-30 years downtown L.A. will have much more high rise housing (and will no longer be considered a "small" downtown), but not necessarily sky scraper height like in Manhattan or Chicago. Because of the earthquake threat, you will never see those kind of crazy sky scrapers in L.A..
I doubt that will ever happen…. Even now…. All the new apt buildings are 4 or 5 over 1’s. It’s rare to see anything besides an office tower/hotel get any higher than that. And even then those are always in DTLA.
@@StillJustD You are wildly out of date. DTLA has just seen the completion this year of a 64-story residential tower called “The Beaudry,” located right next to Cesar Pelli’s 777 tower. Another 60-story residential tower by Onni Group began construction at 1000 S. Hill St. in January of this year. 820 Olive St. is 50 floors of residential. The Metropolis development includes multiple residential towers; Tower D there has 56 floors. The Grand by Gehry, across the street from his famous Disney Music Center, has 44 floors. There are dozens more. Residential towers are sprouting up in South Park, the Arts District, Chinatown, K-Town, and Westlake.
To the west, the recent renovation of the Century Plaza Hotel in Century City was coupled with the addition of the twin 46-story New Century Plaza residential towers right behind it, both of which have surpassed Minoru Yamasaki’s original Century Plaza twin office towers by two whole floors and almost nine meters in height, making them the tallest buildings in the Century City skyline.
You see, Los Angeles *did* grow out instead of up… until it couldn’t anymore. The Los Angeles Basin, Orange County, the San Fernando and San Gabriel valleys, they’re all fully built out now. There is no more room from the ocean to the mountains for cheap development on flat land. There is now nowhere for Los Angeles to grow except up.
Mark my words: by the end of this century, Los Angeles will look like Tokyo with palm trees.
@@jordanwutkee2548 i literally live in LA. All of those buildings were in the works for YEARS. And the grand. Was I. The works before that new Korean owned hotel got built. It’s not going to happen. Oh and the grand is a mixed use office retail and residential tower. We aren’t about to having anything like those 1/2 floor of retail only residential towers like in DC, ATL, or NYC. Anytime soon in LA.
NOPE. The earthquake codes thing is FAKE. It was because of CARS and TYRE companies in cahoots with OIL companies that ran California, especially LA, and they wanted to sell more cars and make more roads is why it ended up like this, they truly sold the idea of the house with the picket fence and a couple cars etc
@@StillJustD I've been shitting all morning
Great video! Learned something new about LA in the early days
I have family 👪 in the Rancho Cordova and on this trip we spent more time in LA. Yes, Google maps was on over drive this time for sure. I know this is off subject, but I wanted to talk about one of the positives: the Getty Center. Easy to set up online, the parking set up, and the whole set up. It looks like an observatory on the hill, nice museum, and the overall selection of history. A great experience. We even met a couple of celebrities.
I don't understand the obsession so many ppl have with building height as a mark of success or interest for a city. Sure it might seem impressive how they're built, but at the same time, I think most ppl would agree classical old, walkable cities that have much lower skylines are generally more enjoyable and feel like nicer cities overall. Nobody talks about Paris or Rome and says, you know what, it's cool n all but would be a lot nicer if there were modern skyscrapers instead of these classical low and midrise buildings. Heck, even Tokyo is mostly low and midrise with very few towers yet is super impressive and busy because it has its own look and feel.
This channel never met a steel-and-glass giant box it didn't like.
Growing up in Philly, now living in L.A. for the past 17 years, The reason Chicago and Philly both have high density city centers is not just the buildings but also because of housing, as in row houses (in L.A. they call this townhouses) but the East Coast is more compacted due to the type of houses that were built decades ago. Philly is also limited to the Delaware river to the east, so it only has 3 sides so build on. L.A. has the mountains to the north, so it's limited there as well...
Hello from LA!
I love videos about LA
Great video!
LA has more than one "downtown" as far as dense population areas are concerned. To the west of downtown a few miles is Koreatown, as of 2008 numbers (which I ASSUME is higher now) it has ~124K people in 2.7 sq miles. So a pop density of ~46K. It's a very walkable area, and as a resident, I can actually function without a car. We live in LA so we still have one car, but that's one car for an adult married couple (something that seems odd to our Angeleno friends).
I live in Barcelona. The central district is the Eixample and it has a density os 92,000 people per sq mi. It is divided into 6 neighborhoods and the one l live in has a density of 124,000 per sq mi (it's the smallest one and only 0.31 sq mi) and it's only the second densed neighborhoodas the densest one has a density of ~150,000 per sq mi (just a bit bigger than mine at ~0.34 sq mi).
There are no towers/skyscraper (only a handful exist in the whole city) and it does not feel crowded in any way.
Palms and East Hollywood are also denser than Downtown and keep adding more and more housing.
Thank you for mentioning this, too many people seem to forget the densest part of LA is directly west of Downtown.
The Wilshire area, including Pico Union and Koreatown are very much still central Los Angeles; and can reasonably be considered an extension of downtown.
@@AL5520 I'm not sure what the obsession with skyscrapers validating how "urban" a city is. But it's weird. Most European cities are incredibly dense and urban and until recently, had hardly any super tall buildings. But, in America, if you aren't having a pissing contest with New York then you aren't a "real city" it's dumb.
@@humzahj. They're dense and well served by transit but no one in LA would put Koreatown and Downtown in the same neighborhood.
I lived in the City of Angels (Glendale/North Hollywood/Brentwood) from '62 through the '80's. This video is truly fascinating and informative. I wish that the city had kept the wonderful trolley system. I live in Toronto, and we still have our streetcars. 🥰
Toronto's streetcars and tree lined streets really give the city a nice charm.
Toronto needs more ornate buildings. Too much glass gives it a flaky feel.
Excellent video 👍👍👏👏
Wow! I didn’t expect to see Cork City (Ireland) at 4:28. Nice!
I live in the LA area all my life and I always tell people who visit LA is to avoid Downtown if possible. Most of the famous LA landmarks are miles away from downtown. When someone said they live in LA, they most like live 30 min to 45 min away from downtown
On the other hand, it's really hard to travel anywhere in Greater LA without a car :p and in many suburban towns, there is very little except for homes, local swimming centers, parks, and shopping malls and libraries...
@@Urlocallordandsavior
Correct. I live in Orange County area now and it is nothing like LA County. For one you dont pay for every place to park like in downtown. We have plazas, shopping outlets and nice roads that are fixed with no potholes. In Downtown, we pay for every parking, homeless every corner, potholes on every street, tags on every wall. The only reason people go to downtown is to work or go to a sporting event. Living in downtown is the dumbest option you can have unless you dont have a car. And not having a car in LA and in California in general are stupid.
@@epicwolf Sure. The Asian communities with their food are pretty cool and unique though. And I guess there's tons of places where you can find music here (though I haven't gone to any music venue yet).
Downtown LA has historic buildings, museums and great restaurants. You are telling people to miss a great spot from LA.
Then you're not from LA..The county is NOT the City...Alhambra, Glendale, Whittier, El Monte, Covina, Compton etc..etc.. is NOT LA.
I wonder if at least part of the story has to do with the LA River and the geographical placement of downtown LA itself. Most cities are built around navigable rivers or oceans, and the city naturally densifies around these desirable water features. But the LA River has not really served that purpose for the city over the years (and had almost been erased in the past by the US Army Corps of Engineers), and the ocean/ports are not very close to downtown LA. So there was less reason to continue to densify downtown as a result
I grew up in downtown LA bc my mom worked in DTLA. I lived in an 18 story high rise building with all of the lux comforts of a 5 star hotel (pool, hot tub, waterfall, gym, sauna, etc.) We never had to deal with traffic or commuting. When I lived downtown there wasn't anything to do and I was usually the only kid. My commute to school was long bc I went to school on the west side of town. Now downtown has LA Live, Staples Center (I am not calling it that new name), Whole Foods, shopping, other high rise apartment buildings, and restaurants. Even with all of these new developments there's STILL nothing to do! Unless you are downtown for a Lakers game, concert, or other event it's really not a place to stay and hang out. It's so dirty. It's not pedestrian friendly, and there's a lot of homeless. One of the highlights I loved about DTLA was shopping for brand names at super cheap discount prices in the Cooper Building and The Alley.
Very interesting. Thank You
i moved to downtown when i moved to la around 4 years ago and have been here ever since. i love it and honestly wouldn’t consider moving to many other areas in la. the juxtaposition between brutalist and art deco architecture is beautiful and it’s cool to see all the albeit slow, development.
also i don’t drive
How do you make a living?
Loving the homeless people there
@@bansheeofinisheerin project manager for ad agency, WFH
Downtown LA is 1/3 tall buildings, 1/3 warehouses, and 1/3 skid row. That’s why the density is really low. It’s not the typical downtown like in other cities
Omg I’ve been a fan of yours for awhile and I was shocked that you gave Syracuse a little shoutout 😂😂😂 you should do a video on downtown Syracuse and it’s metropolitan area!
Great video! Thank you for the historical background and your nuanced and detailed explanation why LA has a small downtown, and also how it came to be the spread out interconnected mass that it is today. But doesn't your explanation reduce to the same one word answer given in the first part of your video: sprawl?
DTLA is not the super center of the city like other traditional cities downtowns are. You can dine, party, and hang out in downtown but you also have Hollywood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Manhattan Beach, Old Town Pasadena, Culver City, etc. to spend your time and money in. Other downtown's don't have to worry about numerous other areas to compete with
I honestly think DTLA being located inland is it’s downfall. If the urban center were located next to the beach, DTLA would be massive as everyone would want to live in a swanky condo next to the beach.
Great point. As it is, all the people with money live on the Westside. If DTLA were where Santa Monica is, it would have every reason and opportunity to look like Chicago or a Seattle. But oh well, I like LA's look, it's got its own character. Too many wannabe Manhattans out there anyway.
The reason for downtown being inland was when the Spanish were building the foundation of LA, the threat of raids by sea was problematic and rather build an expensive fort, the Spanish thought that by moving inland the settlement would not to keep up the expensive security upkeep.
@@alistairlee7604 That is a narrative that has been peddled over and over. It doesn’t hold up. San Francisco and San Diego are coastal cities with downtowns near the water. Both had populations take off earlier or at the same time as LA. LA was just a tiny farming backwater but happened to have its population explode for no other reasons than the fact that the LA basin had tons of cheap, flat farmland in the fair-weathered Southern California region that real estate companies bought and mass produced ugly, cheap single family housing in.
The narration is so much better now, keep up the good work, your content is great 👌
This is one of my Favorite UA-cam channels, and seeing a reference to my hometown (syracuse) featured in the video made me so excited, Great Video!
My hometown and still live here lol nvr usually see Syracuse mentioned
LA has more than 1 business district other than downtown. If you include Koreatown/Mid-Wilshire, the Miracle Mile, Century City, Westwood and Warner Center (which are all within LA city limits) LA's downtown would be formidable.
Still not for a city of its size. Sydney has a cbd larger than LA but also suburb "downtowns", multiple of which boast 500+ feet tall skyscrapers (north Sydney, st leonards, Chatswood, Parramatta, Rhodes, Macquarie park and Burwood with more suburbs to come) all with a population of less than 6 million in the metro.
Most big cities have multiple business districts. Atlanta, for example, has three districts, each with their own unique skylines.
@@YourCreepyUncle. Atlanta metro pop over 6 millions. Buildings over 150 metres, 18. Sydney metro pop, over 5 million but it has 46 150+ tall buildings and the number is rising each year.
@@YourCreepyUncle. Altanta also has extremely low densities between those downtowns. LA has densities that regularly go above 14,000/sq mile, at times even reaching above 50,000/sq mile, and the LA area as a whole has over 900 hi-rises.
Most American cities also don’t have multiple downtowns. Maybe a few office parks. But generally downtown is it.
Yeah, North Americans and Australians tend to only view downtown when measuring a city, but they don’t realize that there’s more to a city than just its downtown. LA has lots of missing middle housing, so there won’t be as many tall towers-that being said there are still a lot of tall buildings in LA that aren’t in downtown.
I didn't know Los Angeles had a downtown
How. Tall towers = downtown.
r/whoosh
Huh?
idc if it was just an example but im actually so happy u used lexington ky in ur video at all
Great video.
LA sounds like a huge town more than a huge city
Every City I've lived in or have visited, I am always curious about their Skyscraper's. Although you should not measure a City by that , I always do. Being originally from Philadelphia, now considered the 6th Largest City which was surpassed by Phoenix a few years ago. I still like to see what other Cities are like. Especially one's I've never been too. New York is up the Street from Philly. And I've lived in Baltimore/DC area for eight years. Been to Atlanta a few times, and Miami as whiles living in Florida. After a while a City just became a City to me😒. Finally back in 2017 my Cousin moved to LA. At this I was living in Denver (which is a growing City) Went to visit them in LA. To my surprise, with people on every corner, and Traffic everywhere I was extremely surprised at the Skyline of LA. I'd thought it would have been bigger. When I first went to Chicago, I said "Damn these Skyscraper's are Huge!" 😄 but I didn't get the same fascination in LA although the City in the evening is beautiful.
The picture of the 2 people in the rowboat in the pool are Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks. The house was called Pickfair. The house has been mostly torn down and rebuilt, but the swimming pool is still there. It was (is) the first swimming pool in Beverly Hills.
I’d love for you to do a video on Atlanta. The beltline could be a great rails to trails video, and Atlanta certainly has a unique skyline with downtown and midtown acting as two urban cores that are opposite in many ways. Not to mention Atlanta has a famous tree ordinance. I could put you in contact with my urban policy professor at Georgia tech.
Atlanta has the 3rd largest skyline in America.
@@thebabbler8867 No it doesn’t it’s miami in 3rd then houston in 4th then la is 5th
Hats off to your BART T-Shirt celebrating its 50th anniversary tomorrow.
I've been to Downtown Los Angeles once several years ago. I lived in Seattle then, and to me Downtown Seattle had a more vibrant downtown back then. The riots, protests, and covid ruined Downtown Seattle, but it will eventually come back. Seattle is way smaller population wise compared to Los Angeles, but I was so disappointed the first time I finally saw Downtown LA. If it wasn't the second most populated city in the country, I wouldn't have been. Now when I went to New York City, I was blown away! And yes to those talking about Downtown Vancouver; it's 100% more vibrant than Downtown Los Angeles.
Don't forget Drugs, Seattle has a lot of homeless, pretty much like New York, except these ones are just addicts
I was in downtown Seattle a year ago after the protests and it seemed fine and vibrant to me, just as every other US city declared 'destroyed' during the BLM riots that actually just suffered from some minor vandalism and not much else.
For a long time Downtown LA was a 9 to 5 district, after offices closed for the day it would empty out, in the last 10 years there has been a major push to build residential buildings but still DTLA is far from being vibrant. Traditionally people in LA hang out in West Hollywood, Hollywood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills , Glendale, Pasadena and Korea town!
Seattle resident here, downtown Seattle has no remnants of the “riots” and is just as vibrant as ever. People all over, and you wouldn’t even realize that it was once locked down as the businesses are doing great.
@@TylerSolvestri Seattle is supposedly number three population wise in the United States.
You should do a video on the Inland Empire (Riverside-San Bernadino-Ontario Metro Area) the history of the citrus industry, boom-and-bust cycles, and suburban sprawl versus urbanism would make for a very interesting video
You really knocked it out of the park with this one, man. Bravo
A few years ago, I decided to go to LA, for the first time, for a vacation and I didn't know much about the city so I booked a room at an upscale hotel in downtown LA. It was a big mistake because downtown is full of homeless people sleeping in parks and sidewalks and there was no police patrolling the area and it was very dark at night as many street lights are not turned on. Public transportation was almost non-existent and there were no eateries opened at night. There are some landmarks but no tourist attractions downtown. Westside is the place to be.
Santa Monica, Pasadena, Pacific Palisades, Malibu, Hollywood Hills are very nice. Downtown just seems abandoned, over hyped, dirty.
The streetlights are off because the bums cut into them to get at the electrical wires, so they can run their hotplates, heaters, phone chargers, etc. Which usually ended up starting fires and causing power outages for the normal people who live nearby. So the City, instead of getting rid of the bums, just shuts the power to the street lights. Heaven forbid we should disturb our precious bums.
I found downtown LA to be okey when I went there a couple of years ago (late 2021). While I agree that the west side of LA is far better, eating breakfeast at Grand Central Market, going to the small bars just a couple of streets south of S. Hill Street was okey, as well as hanging out in Little Tokyo. But yeah, it's not great. And there are metro connections to the south and the west, althought when I went there the service was way, way too infrequent. As a European from a captial city, I'm used to trains comming once every two minut or so, not 2 times an hour.
LA isn’t a business hub like New York. Its specialty is entertainment. Office buildings aren’t needed in LA.
That’s nonsense. LA’s metro’s economy is third in the world after Toyko and New York. It’s incredibly powerful in terms of economy. That’s not due to entertainment. The real answer is that LA still has space. There’s no need to be 1000 feet in the sky when you can build an office on ground floor without the need for an elevator.
Thank you for answering my question as I go down my weekly rabbithole adventure. This week, it is city skylines and cities with subway /light rail systems.
Good Information 👌👌👌🌹🌹🌹
Anyone who thinks DTLA is small has never spent any time there.
My hometown of San Jose is basically just a mini LA with the exact same problems, except the height restrictions will never go down because of the airport right next door to downtown lol. At least we have San Francisco nearby if we ever want to see 'The big, dense city'
I'm so looking forward to your video on the parking bill!
I live in DTLA and love it! You can get anywhere in the city within 20 minutes if theres no traffic. Plus a great metro system and some of the best food in the city
I always thought big cities have multiple city centres or a large central area consisting of multiple very central places. As for my home town Berlin I wouldnt be able to say what is the city centre there. Everything inside the S-Bahn ring is somewhat central.
I always wondered about this and thought it was just because it was on a fault line, but even downtown San Fran has a larger downtown, so thanks for making this video and answering my question
Facinating! All the subleties you mention that set tLA apart ring so true, but I would not have thought of those factors. Keep it up!
I lived in LA and rarely went downtown. At one time I worked right outside the downtown loop, and did have a coworker who lived inside the loop in a high rise, but didn't like it since downtown was dead nights and weekends, so you had to go elsewhere to do anything.
Thank you for this video. I’ve been watching you since before the pandemic and your stuff is alway high quality with actually good research-backed opinions as opposed to most new-“haven’t studied urbanism”-urbanists channels. I’ve noticed a sharp rise in those kinds of channels that-while they do address legitimate points-criticize poor urban planning with very little research, analysis, or thought. I really appreciated your Houston “”No Zoning”” video especially because of the evidence-backed contradictions to the neo-urbanist dogmatic/reactionary opinions about actual urbanism
That's because, contrary to many others, he's actually qualified to talk about these issues. Many of those "neo-urbanist" channels as you called it just revolve around the idea of putting bike lanes everywhere.
*Earthquakes* are a major concern that has had a major impact on the proliferation of skyscrapers in LA
San Francisco has significantly more skyscrapers and was devastated by the 1906 earthquake. More to do with geography I think.
@@anthonysnyder1152 San Francisco is a tiny little piece of rock, it's had no other option but to build up. LA is a MUCH LARGER area.
Counterpoint: Tokyo
I look up the LA planning dept every once in awhile and fortunately a lot of the huge parking lots in downtown and adjacent neighborhoods are being developed into apartment and condo buildings; however they're usually only between 5 and 12 floors of non-parking use. If the city would encourage interesting visual designs, that would make high rise residential buildings more attractive because they would have more daytime view than smog over a monotonous city grid as far as the eye can see. The mountain views are really only to the north and east of the skyscraper cluster. The greater downtown area has so many parking lots and wasted lots that it's ripe for experimental mixed use projects.
What I'd most like to see there and elsewhere are sprawling or clusters of large buildings that resemble hilltop villages as in Europe, the underbellies harboring the parking and other spaces not really part of the casual walking and outdoor dining experiences. They could then likewise provide the traditional walking village amenities of small and medium shops and restaurants, bodegas, and so on. The biggest issue in my opinion would be keeping the shop rents reasonable enough to enable local business to thrive and compete, not just provide more outlets for chains.
Downtown LA has another major issue, however: it's an alluvial plain directly atop some faults capable of earthquakes magnitude 6-7, possibly higher. It simply can't safely be built up as densely as other city cores. That said, it could certainly be much denser than it is presently and incorporate more plazas.
Wow! So interesting!
Skyscrapers don’t make or break a city. Dubai is a prime example. Dubai in my opinion not in the top 100 cities to visit in the world. It has the tallest skyscraper currently in the world.
How about a video on house you would do a Haussmann style redesign of Los Angeles?
As an Angeleno, I appreciate the case study.
I had the opportunity to take an assignment in LA during the pandemic, and i was staying in dtla. Forr me was fine, it reminded me Manhattan: the crazy, busy, dirty and chaotic new york, so i was home lol. I couldn’t adapt to more slow paced areas. Anyways LA is kind of weird; an unique city, it has like many downtowns all over LA. Cant wait to go back 🤗🤗🤗🤗
I actually like that LA did not go the route of NYC or Chicago, and no offense to either, both are beautiful and great to live in or visit....but LA seems to be in a perpetual state of shape shifting, and it lends itself to the geography sorrounding it to try new things like homes up on hills and down in the coast and valleys.
The traffic can and is a nightmare, but the expanding Metro system is actually very effective if you live/work in the areas it services.
I love how vast it feels and how, for the most part, big towering skyscrapers do not block out that California sun. It's why so many amazing sunset pictures flood social media on any given day.
I think the new DTLA boom will see a ton of new skyscrapers, but I love that the city as a whole is not another Manhattan or typical CBD.
Another "uniqueness" of LA is that it's not a single city, it's made up of 88 individual city-level governments, so they all kind of competing against each other for businesses and tax dollars, thereby preventing any centralization of business activities like in a "typical" city. Interestingly, even with dispersion, there's a natural "core", in that this area is where one can reach the most job opportunities throughout the region, hence the miniature LA downtown.
You're talking about LA County. The City of Los Angeles is the largest and most populated city in the county. This is not a unique situation.
@@knut I mean from the context of the video, as he also talks about other independent cities like Long Beach and Riverside.
@@tonysoviet3692 That's not a unique feature at all when most major cities in the world are like that. If you want unique look at Tokyo or Chongqing. Tokyo by this measurement doesn't even exist because it's a metropolis (not to be confused by its metro area) that is formed by many small cities. Chongqing on the other hand is the most populous city proper in the world when it stretches out so far you can compare it to a small country with multiple urban centers within the borders.
@@knut He means LA, Riverside and Orange counties. Irvine has so many tech companies now it has it's own world around it with it's own suburbs. Costa Mesa and so on.
@@knut LA has cities inside cities.
I lived in the city of Van Nuys, but it was still within Los Angeles.
If you look at wikipedia it will say it is "A neighborhood of LA", but street address, mail and government documents all would say Van Nuys, not LA in the city part of the address
I live in Dallas and our downtown area is actually pretty small too
You should make a video about the line in Saudi Arabia, great video btw
LA’s sprawling layout is what happens when a city is built around freeways and travel by car, rather than around walkability and public transit
Phoenix (my hometown) and Houston are other notable examples
I sometimes wonder what LA would be like if it had developed in a more compact, vertical manner like NYC, Chicago or SF
LA doesn't sprawl as much as its reputation would suggest though. It's entirely filled in, and that has been the case since the 80's. It gets a bad reputation because of the "car culture" stereotype that surrounds it. LA's density while not super high like NYC or SF, is the most uniform in the country.
@@michlo3393
Yes but it doesn’t have an easily walkable downtown, and getting anywhere with efficiency requires use of a car (though the traffic-filled freeways make that difficult)
@@michlo3393
Sounds like Metro is expanding and improving at least, which should help
@@coyotelong4349 Downtown LA is pretty great as far as being walkable. The real problem with LA's walkability is it's sheer size. For example, Koreatown and Santa Monica are both extremely walkable neighborhoods, but, you couldn't easily walk from one to the other. Individual neighborhoods in LA vary, but most within the city limits are indeed walkable, it's just that they tend to all be sort of isolated. If that makes any sense. So yeah, while Downtown is walkable, walking from downtown to another neighborhood isn't all that fun. Whereas in Manhattan I could walk from I don't know, Greenwich Village to Battery Park and it would be seamless. Downtown LA to Echo Park would be a trek, even though they aren't that far apart.
@@michlo3393
Right, I gotcha. So each neighborhood is walkable by itself, but walking from neighborhood to neighborhood is a chore
Number of skyscrapers is not a good measure for the built density. For an example most European cities do not have skyscrapers at all, but they have consistent building heights throughout a large area. This allows those cities to have a higher built densities than most North American cities with skyscrapers. In my opinion, floor area ratio (FAR) is a better measurement for built density.
LA's density tends to reflect that of European cities more than any other American city in the sense that it is fairly consistent throughout it's entire metro area. New York for example, thins out the further out you go, same for Chicago. Their densities on a graph would resemble a mountain. Los Angeles would look like a plateau. LA has the most densly populated metro in the country as a result.
Yes., I also wish the video would discuss in terms FAR. However, even on a FAR basis, Los Angeles is surprisingly poorly developed. While watching the video I just did the mental trick of switching his skyscraper talk to FAR.
@@michlo3393 That's interesting to know
Been to LA once. For outsiders it does give first time visitors that the cities surrounding Los Angeles itself are indeed suburbs(bed towns) of Los Angeles. But I don't think it is weird not having much skyscrapers. NYC served as a first place where tremendous number of immigrants settled with not much choices which kind of housing they would prefer. Yes, LA also had a lot of immigrants but not as much over such a short period and it includes a lot of Asians too, who could have lived middle class in their home country but chose to migrate for less stress.
I think a lot of people who come to LA only enter the city from LAX or the San Bernardino Mountains if they’re driving. If they want to see the city, they need to take the 101 South freeway towards Hollywood, from around Universal Studios, all the way downtown it’s completely urban.
DTLA act as a "centre" only by name. But most Angelenos don't have to go there for their commercial needs and those who go are mainly for work. Even many of those visiting LA usually pass through Downtown but seldom visit. And those who do are the ones booked in hotels within the area.