Regarding your posts, I agree with just about everything you said, though I still see little difference between Carcass' medical gore and Cannibal Corpse's blood and guts. I think that's where the subjectivity comes in.
One of my favorite bands! Some people think it makes me less of a skinhead for being a fan of hardcore crust, but I don't give a fuck! Keep the faith, and smash divisions! Anti-Fa! (///)
you do have to remember the time period that they were playing in. grindcore had barely started to gain ground, and they were foundational in developing crust punk. but hey, you have your opinions, and we have ours.
(continuing) - that(Carcass) makes grindcore "free for all". You get substyles like goregrind, pornogrind, shitgrind, etc. Anything that is taboo or extreme will do; - some folks realize that rotting corpses are not that far from "Satan Satan kill kill kill", which is the primary lyric content of death metal. That's how deathgrind is born and from there it's all downhill. Even the bands that start like oldschool grindcore end up sounding like death metal - Nasum being the best example of that.
sid has nothing to do with crust, but "disgrace to the corpse of sid" is the name of one of Sore Throat's albums, and they are one great crust/grindcore band whose band members were from doom, e.n.t. and other crust legendary bands. myspace com / sorethroatpunk i wrote like this because you can't put url's on comments ;)
Right; that's the only point I was trying to make. I think terms can be truly applied to certain bands, but in a lot of cases, they're just subjective. It's odd that you mentioned Terrorizer because I was going to use them specifically, but ran out of room.
Doom were never a death metal band, I know a couple of the lads who played for em Brian and Jimmy, they were hardcore punks and they formed the band to run alongside Napalm Death, Extreme Noise terror and Filthkick at the time in fact Micky the drummer of ND used to drum for Doom.
In my opinion: - there was old-school (mostly British) proto-grindcore: Doom, Extreme Noise Terror, Electro Hippies, early Napalm Death (first two albums); basically a sped-up metallized hardcore with harsh political lyrics; - at the same time there are (mostly American) metal bands that go towards more extreme sound - Possessed, Death, Obituary, etc. - then Carcass comes along. They change the grindcore lyric subject from politics to rotting corpses (to be continued in the next comment)
(continuing) It's good that we have some bands that are still willing to work within the traditional oldschool grindcore format while exploring the fringes - Cause for Effect and Pig Destroyer come to mind. But overall, the two John Zorn jazz-grind projects - Naked City and (early) PainKiller are the BEST GRIND EVER!!!
Well, "Cause for Effect" call themselves fusiongrind, but they do have jazzy influence. Search for "Naked City", though, this is Zorn's pinnacle - for example, watch?v=dMGr1l9vRfA on this site
I understand what you mean and generally agree, but the only problem with your assessment is that Carcass is the exception to everything you just laid out. They were always considered grindcore (at least the first three albums), something I still don't quite grasp. I remember trading tapes and demos and getting the fliers in the mail and found that the two terms were, indeed, used interchangeably.
I was into death metal when Carcass was releasing its good stuff and there was no term "deathgrind." You're trying to revise history, but I was there at the time. Since you're so knowledgeable on this, however, please define death metal and grindcore. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I suppose they were grind because of their political slant, but I've never been able to tell the difference between death and grind; to me, they were interchangeable. I was told that Carcass was grind, but they were pure death metal to me. I think it's stupid to call Doom crust just because they used black and white imagery on their album covers. By the same definition, Discharge could be considered crust as well. I just think that Doom is a poor man's Napalm Death.
dou you even know what is "disgrace to the corpse of sid"? ... check out the band Sore Throat, read some lyrics and listen and you'll see what does it have to do with crust....
By that I mean average and incapable of setting themselves apart in their own genre. I guess they were built up to such a level before I heard them that they couldn't help but disappoint.
Say whatever you like, but all I hear is Discharge. Take into account the simple lyrics and sole use of black and white images and you have a Discharge copy, the same as Dischange, Disclose, Disrupt, and whatever else. In Anthrax' Attack of the Killer B's album, they summed it up thus: "Discharge is as hard as it gets, boys and girls." Even most death metal can't top the big D for sheer musical violence, though the Exploited came close at times.
I never liked Atheist or Death much; I like the simpler approach better: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse with a mosh part somewhere in it. I do, however, like Sadus and I guess they're technical. DiGeorgio is my favorite metal bassist with his six string fretless.
Most of the bands you listed are Technical bands and well personally i like Entombed,Decide,Pestilence and Carcass of course but they are all Death Metal in one way or another and one just can't say DOOM is shit, Sure DOOM sound like Discharge but and you can't blame DOOM for that,because Discharge have influenced Countless number of bands and well just wanted to say DOOM isn't watered down,I guess you fail to notice how good DOOM are but that's your problem or opinion or whatever.
I don't think I'd ever call the Exploited technical. I think they're almost too simple, especially the early stuff. You were talking shit about me not being able to tell the difference between grind and death, but then you called Carcass death metal. They're considered, almost exclusively, grind, aren't they? In doing so, you proved my first point; there's almost no difference between the two except for more political lyrics, but even that's not always the case.
When you use the term technical, I conjure up Death (later albums), Atheist, Sadus, Immolation, etc. Doom's primarily influence was Discharge, being the first, or one of the first, "D-Beat" copycats. It's fine to take a band as an influence, but to copy them outright is paramount to plagiarism. I love early Pitchshifter, but do I want to make the exact same kind of music? Hell no.
Well if that's what you think then well i can;t do anything about it, i personally think some of the Dis bands out there make Discharge's sound to their own sound but i don't mean all of them and exploited? never liked them and just because the lyrics and sounds are so complicated and hard to understand that does not make a band good, sometimes even the simplest of sound and lyrics can top all that technical and complex stuffs.
their own genre was pretty new when they were around. The other bands are clones of them, not the other way around. Crust probably just isn't your thing.
There's really little difference between early grind and death metal and I can cite specific examples of such, but the terms are really just subjective. This is raw, eh? It's so so at best, and is really just a Discharge rip off, as is all that generic D-beat shit. It pales by comparison to Carcass, Entombed, Discharge, Deicide, early Pitchshifter (Desensitized in particular), Grave, or Pestilence (Consuming Impulse).
I've heard so much about this band and as it turns out, they suck. It's a watered down version of punk/grind/crust whatever it's called this weak. I mean, week. What a disappointment.
Regarding your posts, I agree with just about everything you said, though I still see little difference between Carcass' medical gore and Cannibal Corpse's blood and guts. I think that's where the subjectivity comes in.
One of my favorite bands! Some people think it makes me less of a skinhead for being a fan of hardcore crust, but I don't give a fuck!
Keep the faith, and smash divisions!
Anti-Fa! (///)
you do have to remember the time period that they were playing in. grindcore had barely started to gain ground, and they were foundational in developing crust punk. but hey, you have your opinions, and we have ours.
doom kicks ass.we usto play them on our pirate radio station in los angeles..
(continuing)
- that(Carcass) makes grindcore "free for all". You get substyles like goregrind, pornogrind, shitgrind, etc. Anything that is taboo or extreme will do;
- some folks realize that rotting corpses are not that far from "Satan Satan kill kill kill", which is the primary lyric content of death metal. That's how deathgrind is born and from there it's all downhill. Even the bands that start like oldschool grindcore end up sounding like death metal - Nasum being the best example of that.
and for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I was at this gig. Balsall Heath Birmingham? Forget name of pub after 18 years lol
sid has nothing to do with crust, but "disgrace to the corpse of sid" is the name of one of Sore Throat's albums, and they are one great crust/grindcore band whose band members were from doom, e.n.t. and other crust legendary bands.
myspace com / sorethroatpunk
i wrote like this because you can't put url's on comments ;)
I was there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awesome!!
Right; that's the only point I was trying to make. I think terms can be truly applied to certain bands, but in a lot of cases, they're just subjective.
It's odd that you mentioned Terrorizer because I was going to use them specifically, but ran out of room.
Does your wisdom now fail you? Can't you rise to the challenge?
they'll be at All Tomorrow's Parties New York this year.
great!!!
Doom were never a death metal band, I know a couple of the lads who played for em Brian and Jimmy, they were hardcore punks and they formed the band to run alongside Napalm Death, Extreme Noise terror and Filthkick at the time in fact Micky the drummer of ND used to drum for Doom.
Good 'ol Doom ! Crust masters !
Great old member
In my opinion:
- there was old-school (mostly British) proto-grindcore: Doom, Extreme Noise Terror, Electro Hippies, early Napalm Death (first two albums); basically a sped-up metallized hardcore with harsh political lyrics;
- at the same time there are (mostly American) metal bands that go towards more extreme sound - Possessed, Death, Obituary, etc.
- then Carcass comes along. They change the grindcore lyric subject from politics to rotting corpses (to be continued in the next comment)
Doom, thank you to made good crust. War crimes/Inhuman being is awesome!
(continuing)
It's good that we have some bands that are still willing to work within the traditional oldschool grindcore format while exploring the fringes - Cause for Effect and Pig Destroyer come to mind.
But overall, the two John Zorn jazz-grind projects - Naked City and (early) PainKiller are the BEST GRIND EVER!!!
Well, "Cause for Effect" call themselves fusiongrind, but they do have jazzy influence.
Search for "Naked City", though, this is Zorn's pinnacle - for example, watch?v=dMGr1l9vRfA on this site
J0N!!!!!!!!!!
perfect!
haha, I even had some young punks on my back that wanted to beat me up because they thought I'm a nazi :D
wow nice! :D
Interesting 3 piece line up! (no Bri??) Is this before they split for a while?
I understand what you mean and generally agree, but the only problem with your assessment is that Carcass is the exception to everything you just laid out. They were always considered grindcore (at least the first three albums), something I still don't quite grasp.
I remember trading tapes and demos and getting the fliers in the mail and found that the two terms were, indeed, used interchangeably.
I was into death metal when Carcass was releasing its good stuff and there was no term "deathgrind." You're trying to revise history, but I was there at the time.
Since you're so knowledgeable on this, however, please define death metal and grindcore. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
@wolfservant5 Very close mate, loved Doom big style. Still do in fact. ;-)
Was this filmed at Phil and Toni's birthday party in Kesgrave?
It is very subtle, and honestly, I don't care much for both.
I suppose they were grind because of their political slant, but I've never been able to tell the difference between death and grind; to me, they were interchangeable. I was told that Carcass was grind, but they were pure death metal to me. I think it's stupid to call Doom crust just because they used black and white imagery on their album covers. By the same definition, Discharge could be considered crust as well. I just think that Doom is a poor man's Napalm Death.
dou you even know what is "disgrace to the corpse of sid"? ... check out the band Sore Throat, read some lyrics and listen and you'll see what does it have to do with crust....
By that I mean average and incapable of setting themselves apart in their own genre. I guess they were built up to such a level before I heard them that they couldn't help but disappoint.
Say whatever you like, but all I hear is Discharge. Take into account the simple lyrics and sole use of black and white images and you have a Discharge copy, the same as Dischange, Disclose, Disrupt, and whatever else.
In Anthrax' Attack of the Killer B's album, they summed it up thus: "Discharge is as hard as it gets, boys and girls."
Even most death metal can't top the big D for sheer musical violence, though the Exploited came close at times.
I've heard some of it; odd stuff, but nice for a change of pace. How about OLD?
I never liked Atheist or Death much; I like the simpler approach better: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse with a mosh part somewhere in it. I do, however, like Sadus and I guess they're technical. DiGeorgio is my favorite metal bassist with his six string fretless.
@krippin25 where can i get info about this cuz i wanna go.
@clockwolf how close?
Most of the bands you listed are Technical bands and well personally i like Entombed,Decide,Pestilence and Carcass of course but they are all Death Metal in one way or another and one just can't say DOOM is shit, Sure DOOM sound like Discharge but and you can't blame DOOM for that,because Discharge have influenced Countless number of bands and well just wanted to say DOOM isn't watered down,I guess you fail to notice how good DOOM are but that's your problem or opinion or whatever.
this is not death metal .. Doom are probably one of the most underrated british political punk bands since the Sex pistols....
I don't think I'd ever call the Exploited technical. I think they're almost too simple, especially the early stuff.
You were talking shit about me not being able to tell the difference between grind and death, but then you called Carcass death metal. They're considered, almost exclusively, grind, aren't they? In doing so, you proved my first point; there's almost no difference between the two except for more political lyrics, but even that's not always the case.
where is Bri?? and why is Jon on guitar?
When you use the term technical, I conjure up Death (later albums), Atheist, Sadus, Immolation, etc.
Doom's primarily influence was Discharge, being the first, or one of the first, "D-Beat" copycats. It's fine to take a band as an influence, but to copy them outright is paramount to plagiarism.
I love early Pitchshifter, but do I want to make the exact same kind of music? Hell no.
no man not death metal its old school hardcore punk
death meatal?
Well if that's what you think then well i can;t do anything about it, i personally think some of the Dis bands out there make Discharge's sound to their own sound but i don't mean all of them and exploited? never liked them and just because the lyrics and sounds are so complicated and hard to understand that does not make a band good, sometimes even the simplest of sound and lyrics can top all that technical and complex stuffs.
Disgrace to the corpse of sid! ;)
haha 'watered down'? okay there
@wolfservant5
doom is just punk they sounds like disorder and discharge and others
their own genre was pretty new when they were around. The other bands are clones of them, not the other way around. Crust probably just isn't your thing.
There's really little difference between early grind and death metal and I can cite specific examples of such, but the terms are really just subjective. This is raw, eh? It's so so at best, and is really just a Discharge rip off, as is all that generic D-beat shit. It pales by comparison to Carcass, Entombed, Discharge, Deicide, early Pitchshifter (Desensitized in particular), Grave, or Pestilence (Consuming Impulse).
They're okay, but I still think they're kind of a Discharge rip-off.
For me, the best crust band is still Misery.
shit
but crust is the worst shit !!
I've heard so much about this band and as it turns out, they suck. It's a watered down version of punk/grind/crust whatever it's called this weak. I mean, week. What a disappointment.