What's the hardest thing you have found so far with your idle tuning progress? 🦸♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy102 ☝Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/offery102 0:00 - Introduction 0:55 - What IS The Perfect Idle? 2:10 - What Do You Need In Place? 5:50 - Quick Haltech ESP Software Tour For Clarity 17:10 - Your Tune Needs To Be On Point! 19:30 - Idle Ignition Control 26:50 - Preventing Stalling Upon Stopping 31:05 - Tuning Process 37:40 - PID Control 42:25 - Questions
For running a bypass type IAC valve on ITB's, I understand the throttles can't be fully closed, why not keep blade adjustment it in it's original position and add additional air as needed through an IACV? How are factory non-MAF ITB's tuned to start every time?
I just installed MegaSquirter 2 PnP on my 95 Mustang with a 427. This video popped up right on time since I'm tuning the idle now. PID doesn't seem so scary and overly technical now. My question is about throttle bodies that have an air bypass adjustment screw for the IAC solenoid... What's the best way to set this screw without negatively affecting how much air the IAC has to use for control the idle? I don't want to turn the screw all the way in and close off all bypassing air and i don't want to fully unscrew it and allow air to bypass the IAC even when the IAC is at zero, resulting in a uncontrolled high idle. Thanks HPA team🏆💪
Start with it closed see what the idle control valve does. Use a wide band afr to see what it idles at, then I assume that you would use that little actuation adjustment to fine tune your closed angle to the ecm to get them in sinc, so say throttle closing angle is 1% then back that fine screw till it’s 1% open. Still super rich then open it to 1.5% and continue process till your ecm and throttle plate opening and closing % are in sinc. If it’s drive by wire the ecm and throttle plate need to know where each other are so your requested torque and, load compensation tables are able to work correctly
Post start fuel corrections - table for coolant temp vs post start time (seconds) Add more fuel at hotter coolant temps that drops off over time (enough time to keep everything happy until WB turns on has worked for me)
Lol. Reminds me of my FGX G6ET Had a flash tune done by a "reputable " tuner, injectors, 100 cell cat. The thing forever had a big stumble on first start up which went away after being warm. I had to put a new alternator (power steer pump drenched it, thanks Ford). To do this you need to pull off the air in pipe to the turbo, and the air out to intercooler, pull the radiator out etc, just to get the f**cker out. Anyways, put new plugs in at the same time. Turns out the number 3 plug was finger tight, and every second coil pack retainer bolt was loose. After fixing them, tightening the turbo ducting pipes, (no more leaks), the stumble was gone, and it felt like it had another 15kw. (Seat dyno) The fuel economy even dipped down to 8.5L/100km on a long drive (which it had NEVER EVER done in my time of owning it!) The best work is done by yourself I swear!
So I acquired an autronic sm4 a decade ago , the swap was for a mazda 323 gtr , being in North America, Canada , support for the software was non existent , tuners were not , to my knowledge very impressed, although I've seen some truly awsome builds using this ecu , have you ever tuned a car with an autronic sm4 stand alone ecu?
We do cover cold start, not sure if there is anything on YT off the top of my head but search on the HPA site here and you'll find a few lessons for sure. Remember it doesn't have to be the same ECU you have to give you solid knowledge on the process that still applies to you and your setup - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/?
This is the full lesson, if it stopped part way though that is a device or connection issue. We also have paid course material over at www.hpqcademy.com covering other topics 😎 - Taz
I just want someone to break down a few terms in the Holley EFI that aren't covered well in their respective publications. Like what does P term and D term actually mean and do under the idle spark control section of the idle tab. As well as basically every other parameter present under the idle tab of the Terminator X software lol.
We are still a little way off Holley content, we do have a unit here waiting and it is going to happen but I don't have anything for you right now sorry! Have you checked the Holley forums though? I did a quick search on those terms and it looks like there is some info on it from the community for you which might be good enough rather than needing a course or something 😎 - Taz. forums.holley.com/
A common algorithm for control loops is called "PID" control, which is short for "Proportional, Integral, Derivative". When you see terms like "P" and "D", those mean "Proportional" and "Derivative" (the "Integral" term is often unused). Those words have meanings in calculus, though it's not at all necessary to know calculus to tune a PID loop. For PID control, the strength of the correction is always based on the "error", which is the difference between the target value and the measured value (e.g. if your idle speed is 960 RPM and the target is 900 RPM, then the error is -60 RPM). The P term will apply a correction that is proportional to the error: for example, maybe you'd set it up so that it applies an extra 5 degrees of timing advance for every 100 RPM it drops, and -5 degrees for every 100 RPM it's up by. Proportional corrections can be thought of like a spring, since the force from a spring is proportional to the amount it's stretched/compressed. A larger P term means greater "stiffness". The D term will apply a correction based on how fast the error (i.e. the RPM) is changing, so you can set it up to advance timing if the RPM is dropping too quickly, or decrease timing if the RPM is rising too quickly. You can think of D as "damping", because that's exactly what a damper/shock does: it creates a force based on how fast it's being extended/retracted. It's useful for preventing the RPM from overshooting or oscillating around the target RPM. The integral term applies a correction based on the average error over time, which can be useful because the P term alone will never actually bring the error to zero. A light amount of integral control will correct for that lingering bit of error, but too much can actually cause oscillations. Usually, it's best to first set all the PID terms to zero, then tune the P term, then D, then I if needed. You can tune P by turning on accessories like headlights and climate controls to load the engine a little, and add enough P to prevent the idle from "sagging" too much. Then you can start adding in D if needed, though I don't think it's often useful for idle ignition tuning unless it's used as a bandaid for the AFRs leaning out when the RPM is falling.
@@agerrgerra1361 the Holley stuff has a pretty rudimentary idle spark control setup. Just has a box to enable the feature and a P term and D term value. No table per say. The default was 50 on the P term and 40 on the D term.
Hi. I have a bmw m20 e30 that I've got PID idle control. Wondering what your thoughts are on that it idles perfect when cold at 1200, perfect when hot (850), but during the warm up (coolant temp between say 40- 80degC) it gets some oscillations +/-150 I've tried various changes to the PID numbers and the warm up enrichment without too much change. Do you think adding ignition advance control is likely to help?
@@sexyfacenation my plans was to make a custom dual plenum with dual tbs. The TB Im going to use doesnt have iac . So Id have to come up with some external solution in that case. The car is a hobbyist car only driven during the summer. But I guess it would be easier to inculde an iac..
Yes, *but...* As in: Yes, but only in a narrow range of situations. Idle tuning your intended setup would be identical to ITB's: with the engine at running temperature, adjust the throttle stop so it's open enough for the engine to idle at the intended speed, then use the ECU's spark scatter control (I think he called it "idle-up") for closed-loop idle control. But, also like ITBs, you'll still have to nurse the engine a bit on cold starts, or other certain situations.
![Idle Tuning HP Tuners - GM/HP Tuners | Practical Demonstration [GOLD LESSON]](/img/n.gif)
What's the hardest thing you have found so far with your idle tuning progress?
🦸♂ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy102
☝Kickstart your EFI Tuning knowledge. Get 50% OFF your first online course: hpcdmy.co/offery102
0:00 - Introduction
0:55 - What IS The Perfect Idle?
2:10 - What Do You Need In Place?
5:50 - Quick Haltech ESP Software Tour For Clarity
17:10 - Your Tune Needs To Be On Point!
19:30 - Idle Ignition Control
26:50 - Preventing Stalling Upon Stopping
31:05 - Tuning Process
37:40 - PID Control
42:25 - Questions
Thank you, these webinars are a golden resource ❤️🙏
Glad you like them, cheers Mike! - Taz.
indeed.
I’m struggling hard to get my warm idle working. Thank you so much for this!
Ty so much for these in depth webinars!
For running a bypass type IAC valve on ITB's, I understand the throttles can't be fully closed, why not keep blade adjustment it in it's original position and add additional air as needed through an IACV? How are factory non-MAF ITB's tuned to start every time?
Bloody awesome video! Thank you for uploading these gems, they really help me to wrap my brain around the concepts.
Happy to help!
I just installed MegaSquirter 2 PnP on my 95 Mustang with a 427. This video popped up right on time since I'm tuning the idle now. PID doesn't seem so scary and overly technical now. My question is about throttle bodies that have an air bypass adjustment screw for the IAC solenoid... What's the best way to set this screw without negatively affecting how much air the IAC has to use for control the idle? I don't want to turn the screw all the way in and close off all bypassing air and i don't want to fully unscrew it and allow air to bypass the IAC even when the IAC is at zero, resulting in a uncontrolled high idle. Thanks HPA team🏆💪
Start with it closed see what the idle control valve does. Use a wide band afr to see what it idles at, then I assume that you would use that little actuation adjustment to fine tune your closed angle to the ecm to get them in sinc, so say throttle closing angle is 1% then back that fine screw till it’s 1% open. Still super rich then open it to 1.5% and continue process till your ecm and throttle plate opening and closing % are in sinc. If it’s drive by wire the ecm and throttle plate need to know where each other are so your requested torque and, load compensation tables are able to work correctly
Is there a video for warm starts? How do you compensate for the heat soak when you want to start the car after an hour or so?
Post start fuel corrections - table for coolant temp vs post start time (seconds)
Add more fuel at hotter coolant temps that drops off over time (enough time to keep everything happy until WB turns on has worked for me)
One of the least sexy parts of tuning but one of the most important
It's one of those things, once you DON'T have it, you realise how great and important it is! 😅 - Taz.
Lol.
Reminds me of my FGX G6ET
Had a flash tune done by a "reputable " tuner, injectors, 100 cell cat.
The thing forever had a big stumble on first start up which went away after being warm.
I had to put a new alternator (power steer pump drenched it, thanks Ford). To do this you need to pull off the air in pipe to the turbo, and the air out to intercooler, pull the radiator out etc, just to get the f**cker out.
Anyways, put new plugs in at the same time. Turns out the number 3 plug was finger tight, and every second coil pack retainer bolt was loose.
After fixing them, tightening the turbo ducting pipes, (no more leaks), the stumble was gone, and it felt like it had another 15kw. (Seat dyno)
The fuel economy even dipped down to 8.5L/100km on a long drive (which it had NEVER EVER done in my time of owning it!)
The best work is done by yourself I swear!
So I acquired an autronic sm4 a decade ago , the swap was for a mazda 323 gtr , being in North America, Canada , support for the software was non existent , tuners were not , to my knowledge very impressed, although I've seen some truly awsome builds using this ecu , have you ever tuned a car with an autronic sm4 stand alone ecu?
Great info mate.
Could you do a detailed video on doing cold start tunes from scratch.
We do cover cold start, not sure if there is anything on YT off the top of my head but search on the HPA site here and you'll find a few lessons for sure. Remember it doesn't have to be the same ECU you have to give you solid knowledge on the process that still applies to you and your setup - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/?
At idle when I blip the throttle, it dips below my target by about 70 rpm. Why does that happen?
Hello, How do I get to watch the remainder of the video? Thank You, James
This is the full lesson, if it stopped part way though that is a device or connection issue. We also have paid course material over at www.hpqcademy.com covering other topics 😎 - Taz
I just want someone to break down a few terms in the Holley EFI that aren't covered well in their respective publications. Like what does P term and D term actually mean and do under the idle spark control section of the idle tab. As well as basically every other parameter present under the idle tab of the Terminator X software lol.
We are still a little way off Holley content, we do have a unit here waiting and it is going to happen but I don't have anything for you right now sorry!
Have you checked the Holley forums though? I did a quick search on those terms and it looks like there is some info on it from the community for you which might be good enough rather than needing a course or something 😎 - Taz.
forums.holley.com/
@@hpa101 I have not yet, but I will go give that a shot! Thank you.
A common algorithm for control loops is called "PID" control, which is short for "Proportional, Integral, Derivative". When you see terms like "P" and "D", those mean "Proportional" and "Derivative" (the "Integral" term is often unused). Those words have meanings in calculus, though it's not at all necessary to know calculus to tune a PID loop.
For PID control, the strength of the correction is always based on the "error", which is the difference between the target value and the measured value (e.g. if your idle speed is 960 RPM and the target is 900 RPM, then the error is -60 RPM).
The P term will apply a correction that is proportional to the error: for example, maybe you'd set it up so that it applies an extra 5 degrees of timing advance for every 100 RPM it drops, and -5 degrees for every 100 RPM it's up by. Proportional corrections can be thought of like a spring, since the force from a spring is proportional to the amount it's stretched/compressed. A larger P term means greater "stiffness".
The D term will apply a correction based on how fast the error (i.e. the RPM) is changing, so you can set it up to advance timing if the RPM is dropping too quickly, or decrease timing if the RPM is rising too quickly. You can think of D as "damping", because that's exactly what a damper/shock does: it creates a force based on how fast it's being extended/retracted. It's useful for preventing the RPM from overshooting or oscillating around the target RPM.
The integral term applies a correction based on the average error over time, which can be useful because the P term alone will never actually bring the error to zero. A light amount of integral control will correct for that lingering bit of error, but too much can actually cause oscillations.
Usually, it's best to first set all the PID terms to zero, then tune the P term, then D, then I if needed. You can tune P by turning on accessories like headlights and climate controls to load the engine a little, and add enough P to prevent the idle from "sagging" too much. Then you can start adding in D if needed, though I don't think it's often useful for idle ignition tuning unless it's used as a bandaid for the AFRs leaning out when the RPM is falling.
@@agerrgerra1361 the Holley stuff has a pretty rudimentary idle spark control setup. Just has a box to enable the feature and a P term and D term value. No table per say. The default was 50 on the P term and 40 on the D term.
@@agerrgerra1361 Thanks, that's the clearest explanition I've heard on PID. Better than the accelerator/brake example.
Hi. I have a bmw m20 e30 that I've got PID idle control. Wondering what your thoughts are on that it idles perfect when cold at 1200, perfect when hot (850), but during the warm up (coolant temp between say 40- 80degC) it gets some oscillations +/-150 I've tried various changes to the PID numbers and the warm up enrichment without too much change. Do you think adding ignition advance control is likely to help?
timing is crucial at idle, specially cold; try the same original settings with a bit more advance and see the results
Turn the volume up, please.
PID Stuff at 37:50 was helpful.
Is there any way without a dbw to delete the air control valve?
You can use ignition timing
Is it possible to get decent idle without air bypass valve on an automatic street car with manual throttlebody?
Probably not. Why not use a bypass valve?
@@sexyfacenation my plans was to make a custom dual plenum with dual tbs. The TB Im going to use doesnt have iac . So Id have to come up with some external solution in that case.
The car is a hobbyist car only driven during the summer.
But I guess it would be easier to inculde an iac..
@@magnusdanielsson2749 best plan is use dbw. Do that!
Yes, *but...*
As in: Yes, but only in a narrow range of situations. Idle tuning your intended setup would be identical to ITB's: with the engine at running temperature, adjust the throttle stop so it's open enough for the engine to idle at the intended speed, then use the ECU's spark scatter control (I think he called it "idle-up") for closed-loop idle control.
But, also like ITBs, you'll still have to nurse the engine a bit on cold starts, or other certain situations.
Ohhh lol the word era means error, i get it, sheesh! Was confused about these automotive eras.
Does it say 'era' in the subtitles? Throw me the timestamp and I'll touch them up, usually we already have them on point. Sorry about that! - Taz.
i’m