To answer a common question: It doesn't charge on your slide on charger. I don't believe there's a way for it to work on every brand that way, and they're trying to make it so you can buy X brand and not have to buy a kit. Just the cheaper bare tool each time and for the most part ignore proprietary things. Theoretically someone could eventually just start a tool collection only ever buying bare tools. But choosing A cheap slide on charger it could fast charge on I think would be a good idea.
Anybody looking for a great charger to go with it look up the "pinepower" by pine64, they also make a killer type c powered soldering iron you can power with the pinepower too ;)
They aren't that bad HP had their cartridges die by date even if they were not used imagine if you had to toss a fully working battery packs because it was on a shelf for a bit.
I don't see that happening. It would cause too much trouble with existing batteries and tools in the field. This one company isn't going to cut into their margins by enough to warrant that.
@@F0XD1E On this generation. Next season "And to satisfy the demands of customers we're changing to a new platform of 25v tools" With serialization that would make HP and Apple jealous.
@@F0XD1E Most companies already have the hardware in there, and in cases of products like DeWalt's Flexvolt Advantage, Ryobi HP, Milwaukee Fuel, Makita LXT and XGT, they have implemented battery detection at various levels.
Oh they definitely will. Hell, GE started putting RFID chips on their refrigerator filters just so you don't go and buy a knockoff that's 3x less. Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita and so on, all make a LOT of money because of their battery platforms. You buy an expensive DeWalt battery and your more inclined to stay with DeWalt tools. If you bought a universal battery? You could buy any tool and that's just unacceptable for tool brands.
Apple did it with their charging cables so I don't see why they wouldn't do a small update to the communication between tool and battery so that it checks if it's an authentic battery.
I have to say, the USB C charger is a huge selling point. I like to leave a spare impact driver in my truck and being able to charge and maintain the battery without the big charger is amazinf
Absolutely this. Got a rim on my Highlander that likes to drop air pressure when the weather swings cold to warm or warm to cold. Keeping my little Ryobi inflator with a battery I can just charge off the vehicle would cut down on some clutter for me.
I'm not entirely sure about that for heavy professional use, for example running an angle grinder and a hammer drill on site, we'd be constantly draining batteries, so having to wait an hour for a new one to charge would be unusable
Imagine a world where you don't need to wait 8 years for your color of tool brand to make a track saw, or the type of nailer you need, or your band wont make high performance batteries because they want to push you to their higher price line, or they start downgrading tools to place it better in their brand price ladder. Let's say your brand's mid torque impact is too long to fit where you commonly need it, instead of waiting years for a new generation you just go out and buy something a little shorter, maybe even at a better price. This is the beginning steps of something like that, and that's a world i want my children to grow up in lol :P
One of my biggest pet peeves is vendor lock-in. Batteries for power tools, ebikes etc., ink and toner cartridges for printers, pods for coffee makers, you name it. Yeah, I want to live in a world where you buy the best tool for the job (within your means) without having to worry if your existing batteries will work with it. Like - if you have only DeWalt tools, but DeWalt's version of the tool you need is worse than similar priced offerings from Makita, Bosch, Ryobi and Milwaukee, why should you have to buy the crappy DeWalt tool?
What would be even cooler is if the battery was open source, nobody want's tooling specs or anything to reproduce it as that's their IP and costs a lot of money and absolutely protect your investment. Just take note how any right to repair friendly company's operate and model themselves are such. I feel like this is a big step in the right direction, but not the end goal that we truly need as consumers. If we can't repair this product then you truly don't own it and you're still buying e-waste in the end. This will cut down on a lot of e-waste but will still be e-waste it's self which is a sad concept that we still live in.
PD spec 3.1 for the 240W, type C is just a physical port and doesn't mean anything. It's the controller chip that the port is wired to that matters, so being type C doesn't mean anything other then it takes a type C cable until you know what chip is behind that port.
@@F0XD1E when you consider how much a fast charger from (insert your tool brand here) costs and how limited in functionality is, I guess the high power USB-C charger might give it a run for its money
@@pimpstick2 There are minor suggested changes to type-C cables and receptacles to support the higher voltage of EPR (essentially a couple of pins being shortened to allow detection of a sudden cable removal to reduce the chance of arcing, given the higher voltage) but that's honestly nitpicking. USB-C is great.
Drug dealer mentally is spot on. I have a garage full of Ryobi because I got a kit 20 years ago and never could bring my self to switch to another brand because of all the batteries I already have.😂
@@jeramystephens74 Personally I am more of a corded tool guy but the only cordless tool I use is a Ryobi drill from 20 years ago that works perfectly fine for drilling holes in wood.
It's crazy how far behind the US is in so many things compared to the EU. We're busy arguing about bathrooms and wokeism while the EU is actually protecting it's people and environment.
Sounds good, I hope it works out. They usually just ask the industry come up with a solution and then only make it legally binding after it's been widely adopted. Transition period will always be an issue but a great idea long term.
Interesting! Now I'm invested in DeWalt flexVolt but their chainsaws are nothing good. 60ish volt battery makes sense for high power tools. For smaller tools it is a welcome change to have a 20ish volt universal battery across-the-board.
14:10 there's definitely no throttling. Throttling requires linear mosfets, which are big, expensive, and make a lot of heat. Their mosfets are either fully on or fully off. 11:34 this test shows that the CEENR has higher resistance than the Bosch or Dewalt, despite having lower resistance cells. They've clearly using cheap mosfets with high resistance. If it's losing 1V extra at 37A, that means it has an extra 27mOhm of resistance, which is quite bad. Looks like they're using 4 mosfets and 2 shunts at 12:01 (shame about the focus). Makita LXT packs can do stand-alone cutoff just like these packs, but they have a high-end mosfet of only 0.45mOhm and a pair of shunts with 0.25mOhm resistance. Those packs can handle 110A before the pack cuts out from hitting 12.5V - so 1,250 Watts. M18 12Ah also have high-powered mosfets and I've taken them up to 160A and 2,500 Watts. Powerstack 5Ah also has cutoff mosfets and can easily go over 630 Watts. So this is just showing that you get what you pay for. Cheap batteries = cheap parts and the associated compromises.
I for one would pay the same as a name brand battery for a high quality universal one. I’m just tired of being trapped in brand X only to find out that brand Y makes a better tool or one that brand X doesn’t.
Im fully okay with this not liking VTEC impacts or saws if it works on impact drivers, drills, heat guns, or any variety of more "standard" power tool. Some things are built for the best, but not everything has to be. Charging with USB C is the dream and to not need a $100 add on kit to do so is sweet.
@@jonathanshaw8868 I have a Ryobi shop vac that very much wants the biggest battery I can throw at it. It's the most power hungry cordless tool I own. I'm curious about the Milwaukee counterpart you have.
@@TheBrokenLife I have a Milwaukee shop vac the 6 gallon one. It drains batteries like crazy! I'm lucky to get 10 minutes on a charge with an XC5.0. Even the 6.0 High Output struggles with it. Performance drops very fast you will only get full suction for maybe two minutes before it slows down. Strangely the best performance I have gotten from it us using an adapter and a Dewalt XR 8.0 pack.
@@VacMaster1991 That sounds pretty bad... Mine is a 2 gallon (I think?). I use a 9aH high performance Ryobi battery in mine and the total run time is around 45 minutes. Performance is very good except for maybe the last 5 minutes or so. That said, I can run a chainsaw or weedeater longer on the same battery. That vacuum is hungry. Despite that, I quite like my vac. It's really nice dust with. 😂
@@TheBrokenLife I just have the little 2 gallon m18, on 6.0 batteries you only get 15 ish minutes, your really using it as sparingly as possible. But it works good for in field activities
Batteries are so inflated and we see this through kit prices, sales, and what harbor freight sells their 12.0s for. Not long ago home depot had 3 12.0s for $400 and even more recently they had a 12.0 + two 3.0s for $200. Home depot also had a sale on their 60v tools that came with a 'free' 9.0 battery. They would never take a loss on their sales so all of this tells us that their regular prices could simply sit lower. I've already been running adapters for ~10 years though so I'm not sold on these as a completely new concept. I think they need to round those corners and potentially wrap in rubber for durability. Another big thing would be to make the adapters work for charging the batteries on name brand chargers because a hour+40 mins on a 4.0 is not feasible in the field. Overall, I like the direction they're going with this. Thanks for the video sir.
you got to get bunches of battery packs then but lugging those is a pain in arse. in freaking hot sunny days, the pack will heat up faster and reduce the time usage quite considerably. My 4.0Ah battery that should've last 40-45min went off just less than 30min on a hot day.
I LOVE any company trying to solve problems / provide solutions to people! Bonus points if you're also making it difficult for predatory companies at the same time.
The EU managed to put the USB-C on the iPhone. I can only hope among other regulations they come up with one for interchangeable batteries between tool brands. I buy mostly Parkside tools, because the batteries are cheap. And the price of the battery is the biggest obstacle to overcome for me as I am not a professional user by any means. I use tools at home, around the car and bike and to make the occasional low budget and low quality UA-cam video. So batteries sitting about doing nothing is not a good investment for me. So a Parkside 8Ah battery that works on a Milwaukee I would very much like. That said I am not a fan of the 3D printed adaptors. So go on EU take them on! P.S. It must be said that you have made another exceptional! Thank you!
There is a risk that Parkside batteries are not as good as they seem. It would be cool to see some of the performance parkside tools tested first by TTC, then batteries themselves vs name brands. I'm just talking about performance of batteries not longevity cuz it's another story and that seems to not be a problem. Parkside seems to use cheap chinese cells inside so that would explain the cost of the battery at the shell. Even their 21700 4ah pack is most likely made out of cheep chinese 21700 cells.
@@bleyz3557 For sure Parkside batteries are nowhere near as good as say a Makita, DeWalt, Bosch. However if I could choose wether to spend more on a battery or tool I would spend on a tool. Simply because I look at the battery as a consumable so I would like a reliable tool and a cheap battery. This is by the way the view of someone who does not use these tools professionally as said in my previous comment. Of course not too cheap a battery but if it can do 95% of what a battery twice the price can do I will be more than satisfied.
The biggest batteries I have are 4ah but I have many brands of tools, I just cant bring myself to pay the big battery price. But with something like this I could justify the cost if I could use it across multiple tools. I would even be willing to get a jumbo belt battery from them like the backpack battery haha
instead of them pricing them reasonably they probably pull the 14.4v ryobi and add a proprietary communication protocol thats encrypted most tools out there just need a 3.3v signal on the temperature pin to work, but a few require a data stream like all bosch ebike batteries that hasnt been hacked yet
Not to mention, there’s a channel on here (can’t remember the name at the moment) that’s already intercepted the data stream from m18 batteries and the charger. And was able to dump the protocol.
They kind of do, but not fully. First off a lot of tools need the temp sensor to operate, of which most battery adapters just spoof it via a static resistance and that lets the tool work. However the danger there is the tool doesn't know the actual temperature of the battery if you just put in a static median value. Secondly a lot of higher-perf. tools have some add'l "communication" with the battery--e.g. Milwaukee RedLink, Ryobi HP, etc. which is not needed to run the tool but sometimes is needed for peak performance. These are typically "simple" protocols but would have to be reverse engineered, etc. and wouldn't be within the realm of a basic adapter. So not really handshaking but a few perhaps minor caveats to using anything "universal" via simple adapters.
@@rolandm9750it's too bad we can't just have quality adapters instead of the sea of counterfeits online etc. Thats where we really are going to see those digital handshakes pay off, is against counterfeit, potentially dangerous batteries.
Oh, neat, yesterday I saw this at Dean's channel and they looked cool but was waiting for a more in-depth view, thanks! I just hope it is not just like the xkcd "Standards" comic. And I'm afraid this won't make makers lower their prices but instead adding more security features, fuses or stuff to detect whether the battery is original or not and not draw enough power when a knock-off is detected.
Looks great. They should fix the lights always on drain and if the price is right it could be a game changer. I don't mind if the charging is on the slow side since I'm not a professional.
Batteries are becoming so expensive that it inspired me to learn about battery chemistry and electronics repair so I could Re-cell and repair M12 batteries for myself and coworkers. Why spend about $200 on batteries when I could put that money into a cheap spot welder, a nice soldering iron and like 20 high quality Samsung cells? The tools are buy once cry once and now I can repair my own stuff for a fraction of the price of instead of shelling out $60 for like $9 of lithium cells in a red flavoured plastic shell.
Probably worth it for some, but for the vast majority of professionals, new batteries are cheap enough, and last long enough, to just buy new ones when needed
@@gregorsamsa1364 Your still throwing out a 90% good pack. That is the marketing scam that blows holes right through any global warming BS and is a complete waste of money. Money is money whether your a pro or not and if your a pro that means your wasting more money because you go through more packs. Don't even try to tell me you or other pros make so much money you can just burn it up like that. I'm sure you all freak out over high costs like the rest of us, have you been to the grocery store lately? I get your point, wasting time trying to fix them is not really worth the effort since they made is very difficult.
The USB charging is a great idea. Being able to charge them on the way to a jobsite in a truck, or charge off generic cell phone portable chargers are not the most efficient ways to charge, but most definitely would be useful.
This is the most valuable video I've watched in a while. 👍 I mean a lot of times at work it's cheaper to buy a kit with a tool, charger and 2 batteries, than a single battery.
@@TorqueTestChannel to be clear though this is only with an adapter on or on a tool? If it just sits in 'powerbank' mode will we be okay to leave it for weeks and not worry?
@@TorqueTestChannel - was this drain true for all adapters, or just certain ones? My hunch is that the adapters might have some special electronics in them for some tool brands, but maybe not for others, and the power being drawn is running that bit of electronics. Just a hunch that could be completely wrong.
This newcomer has got the right idea. They already have a good product, with the potential to be an amazing product, if they iron a few things out and consider the feedback from their customers. Down the line, they could easily up the charging wattage to 65 or 100 watts; technically, they could go up to 240, but that would be harder to accomplish. I approve, let us pull a few more amps from those spicy cells though please!
Kudos on a magnificent video. Unbiased, candid, with specs, facts and figures. Props to Ceenr PDNation for trying to break the industry vendor lock in.
Looks like a good idea for diy'ers but for me I love the 15-20min charge time on my Makita 18v 4ah batteries ... By the time I run one down the other is fully charged. If only the blooming batteries didn't cost an arm and a leg.
With an appropriate charger it should charge just as fast. In the video he was using a laptop charger for some weird reason. Only thing that sucks about rapid charge is it severely degrades the batteries overtime.
I recently picked up the Craftsman CMCD721B Brushless hammerdrill (USA Made) and man I've been impressed with it. It's a beast. I've been quite surprised and impressed with all my Craftsman powertools. Really like em.
For a couple of projects I've just bought a $10 battery adapter online so I can use my rigid batteries with cordless harbor freight tools. Seems to work fine although the voltage is slightly different.
Yeah I don't see the point of buying into this, it's just trying to sucker you into buying more batteries. An adapter for your existing branded batteries to work on whatever new tool from another brand you're looking at is the way to go.
Companies have already been making the adapters for years. I have a craftsman leaf blower and weed-eater, all of my tools are dewalt. I bought an adapter because the 2amh battery that came with the blower are trash. It was $20-25 on Amazon and they have them for every platform.
Same here. I run a DeWalt 10Ah on my Craftsman leaf blower. Huge difference. I also noticed the bigger batteries help balance the weed whackers better.
Sure you, can get certain DeWalt to other brand adapters, but you have to keep finding adapter if you get a random tool from another company. But this is like a "universal" battery. One 5AH battery is $50 bucks. That's almost $50 less than say a Milwaukee battery. So for $100 bucks you could get two batteries with two tool adapters. Then say you get one random tool, for $20 you get an adapter. Also they could keep adding more brand adapters even like HF brands Bauer and Hercules or higher end ones like FES TOOLS. No need for battery specific chargers either. Once they work out the kinks, this ideal of a universal battery could change things for the consumers
I love this idea. Hope it’s successful everywhere . I had a 12v combo set . Not brilliant but handy. Batteries died, could I find a new battery pack? Heck no! It’s been discontinued so would need to buy a new combo set, or? I bought adapters for the Black and Decker 14v batteries and fitted those. What a hassle! It was only because the little set has proven to be handy to have in the back of the van that I bothered. I’ve used B&D professionally for years now on site, my theft rate has dropped to virtually zero yet the tools have done all I’ve asked over the years. The combo set now works on the B&D batteries better than ever. But if universal batteries were available it would save so much trouble and so much e-waste. Especially when you quite often find your favourite tool on sale ,with battery, for less than the cost of a new battery. Promo’s like that are great for us but just generates even more e-waste.
You're talking about the same consumers that allow channels like "Just Rolled In" to thrive. Not a good idea to have your product potentially breaking a customers hundred dollar tool.
As somebody that has inherited drills or got them i thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. This is gonna be so much easier and cheaper long run
Maybe a switch or button on the battery where you can put it into Hi/Low. I imagine Hi will reduce the life of the battery as well, but for tougher jobs might be nice. Something like that starts to make the battery 'complicated' for some, but might attract others who want to be able to extend the life of the battery vs maxing it out all the time.
Awesome! I really like the PD nation idea. As an initial roll out it seems really good. I believe they will have it working great even at high current demands in no time at all. It's not easy developing all that. I have considered it to some level myself in the past. I wish them the best with this! Excellent testing TTC!
Looks like they've skimped on the cutoff mosfets, unfortunately. From the load test we see the CEENR losing an extra 1V compared to Bosch/Dewalt - that means it's got an extra 27mOhm of resistance. LXT 5 & 6Ah, M18 12Ah, Powerstack 5Ah, and then all Ridgid/AEG and Ryobi have cutoff mosfets, and they can all easily do more than 50A. You can see a blurry boardshot at 12:01. Looks like it goes B- > 2x shunts > 4x mosfets > P-. There's also a really big inductor, capacitors, and another pair of mosfets, which I guess is a buck/boost circuit for the USB-PD.
This is pretty awesome! I’m guessing this 4ah is a proof of concept to see if it’d sell and will probably be making a larger pack in the near future. It’s a promising system!
I am standardized on deWalt 20v, I buy an adapter for each tool to make life simpler usually for Ryobi or 18v deWalt. $20 per adapter makes it a no go for me. The batteries would have to be cheaper or more capacity for me to switch. There doesn't appear to be an advantage unless I was starting from scratch on batteries.
I used to work at Walmart, out in the auto department, and one day my manager decided we needed a leaf blower and a spare battery, so he sent me up to the store to grab some stuff off the shelf. Hart leafblower was listed at around $100 on the shelf. Spare, high-capacity battery was listed at $200. Because a high-capacity 40V is literally 4 of the 20V batteries shoved together in one case.
It's a great ideaThis would definitely help convince me to try different brands of tools / use a brand that excels in one area but doesn't represent well in others.
Worth mentioning that in the low-end drill comparison chart (6:03), only *some* of those models are advertised as brushless motors. If that's not important to you, you can get the Craftsman CMCD700C1 instead for significantly cheaper. Not that I'd recommend that.
Update having received my order today: Batteries are still using P42A's, soldering job looks good, conformal coating or paint or whatever is kinda "meh" but otherwise good execution. Opened up one of the adapters, (Milwaukee in this case) and found good soldering work, however instead of using a thermocouple passthrough to the tool, they are using static resistors in the adaptor to "trick" the tool into operating without thermal rollback functionality. Not an ideal solution, if I'm being honest. If different brands use different thermal sensors, why not do software-scaling in your adapters? And if they all use the same rated NTC thermocouple, why not pass that to the tool? So far my only complaint. Adaptors can definitely handle the current these battery packs can push by my evaluation.
Seems like a really great option for pro-hos and weekend warriors right out the gate. Makes it so you can pick up some used tools for cheap, then not have to worry about getting battery setups for everything you find. Not sure about how much I'd trust it in a professional setting, but with a bit of tuning these batteries could be a real game changer.
Sadly you can't find these batteries anywhere. Sold out. I'm sure stocks will come back up. HOWEVER I'm sure manufacturers will make it so only their tool works with their battery.
@@TorqueTestChannelI hate that you're probably right about that! We can also go the route of taking the verification chips out and attaching them to the universal battery like people do with k cups or printer cartridges. Though depending on how it's implemented this could be easier said than done.
My old C3 style Craftsman impact & drill (2K era) are jealous of all your newfangled fancy batteries. I'll just keep what has never failed me. But honestly they work so well that there's no reason to replace them.
The charging solution is really half baked in my opinion. I feel like this really wouldn't work for many people, having to plug the battery in is a bit fiddly compared to just popping it on a charger. If they come out with their own charger and keep the usb c port (that way you can use either of them) then it can still be considered not locked-down while having the convenience of a standard tool battery charger.
How is plugging a type c cable into something more fiddly then trying to get it into the rails of a big bulky charger? It just sounds like "Old man yells at cloud about how he fears change" kinda thing. Type C is so universal that there is no need to make big bulky wastes of plastic and space.
@@pimpstick2big clunky plastic rails with big clunky contacts have a purpose when you wear big clunky gloves and are in a potentially dusty environment that could easily clog up a usb c port
@@pimpstick2 I find that plugging in my phone takes much more dexterity compared to charging my makita batteries. To plug in my phone I have to fiddle a bit with a tiny connector, while to charge a makita battery I essentially just throw it on the charger with a kinda-right orientation and the rails line everything up. as nicfab1 said, there's a reason chargers are designed like that, and the abuse things in a workshop need to withstand is much greater than the abuse things in consumer environments need to withstand. I absolutely love usb c, don't get me wrong, it's just not the correct choice for the job IMO.
@@nicfab1The regular chargers also can clog with dust. Either way I have compressed air piped everywhere including up to and in the kitchen and out in the driveway. I can just connect a blow gun and blow out the port. Not a big deal. I lose the tool chargers all the time but I have millions of type C chargers and can get more for $1.
Been doing this for years with battery adapters from Amazon. I use dewalt 20v batteries on all brands of cordless 18/20v tools. Works great when you're scouring yard sales
I’ve seen ads for this lately, but I thought they were just fake garbage like Temu type stuff. This is genius. If they can get it perfected, this would be be pretty dang cool. Too bad I already have about 12 dewalt batteries, 8 kobalt batteries, 5 Metabo batteries, 6 Milwaukee batteries, 10 Ryobi batteries, 4 Worx batteries 😡
One of the reasons I went with Kobalt back in 2016, was the (now discontinued) $19.99, 1.5Ah battery, even though I never bought one, and never got one in a kit. Even at $29, the 2.0Ah is still a good/great value.
Then it's not really "universal". Adapters have been widely available for 3 years, but they don't come with batteries. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
Yes, though most adapters adapt one battery from one brand with another never meant to be together. And sparks, melting, weird stuff can result from that depending on the pairing under heavy load. This is a battery and board made to work with all of those brands, and adapter hats to clip into them. Though, some of those hiccups linger it seems, but we feel they are mostly self imposed safety ones.
@@TorqueTestChannel I consider it an incremental improvement, not a revolutionary one that will change the industry in a meaningful way. I fear if the tool manufacturers don't get together and come to an agreement on 1 interface, the government will force it. That never turns out well for anyone.
@@cilli5866 They don't care. Remember the horrible curly fluorescent light bulbs they foisted on us, the fake recycling and electric cars? That's the kind of stupidity we can expect. If the tool manufacturers don't agree on a universal battery format pretty soon, the government will surely do it, and we won't like the result.
Nice to see someone ran with this idea. I have two generic adapters to run my older Dewalt drill and my Dyson hand vac off my M18 batteries. So the idea has some merit.
I agree with you its annoying how tool brands get ya first ones free then its a arm and a leg hit the nail right on the head these batteries these days are highway robbery i swear 17:00 @Torque Test Channel
No way to charge on every brands charger, so better they dont pick one brand otherwise you're back to where you've started with proprietary stuff. USB-C is the opposite of proprietary which makes sense. Edit: Wow, USB-C these days can spit out some serious watts is seems!
@@TorqueTestChannel fair. Hopefully, they can work some kinks out with the board and let the molecells out as you suggested, while also at the same time allowing up to 100w charging (many modern flagship cellphones can take 80-100w charging) to help speed things along. Its a great idea, and I hope it goes far. I just feel it still has some kinks to iron out.
PDNATION could go a step above and make their cells replaceable so if one dies you can swap it out and be more environmentally friendly. Totally doable, upfront cost would just be slightly more expensive for the consumer.
I don't really need a universal battery. I need a high quality adapter that I don't have to worry will burst into flames, so I can use my many existing batteries on other brands. The current adapters are sketchy.
i can see this being good for a diy person, someone that has collected different older tools over the years with the batteries dying on them, this would be really useful that they can still use the tools without spending lots on buying new battries for different brands. and being a diy person, you dont need the max the tool can provide, usually you just need it to work to complete the job as doing work for themselves.
Universal should also include charging with whatever brand charger you have. Put the brand adapter on and charge the PDNation on a Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc charger.
I think it is more realistic for them to add charging via USB PD which would in theory cap out at 240 Watts. If they tried to add compatibility to all chargers they would need an unnecessarily complex battery management system as every brand uses different types of battery management systems in their tools.
This is pretty cool. I'm a weirdo with cordless tools from more than a half-dozen brands. I'm not loyal nor am I above using an adapter when the batteries I have for each brand are drained and there's perfectly good ones, in a variety of colors, sitting on my shelf waiting to be used. I don't need more batteries, but I might buy one or two just because!
What would be really cool is if it was not only bi-directional but if you could charge and discharge them at the same time, IE have a corded setup able to give it extra juice/charge and be able to go cordless whenever you wanted.
You guys make the difference when it comes to the power tool industry. That being said this battery could be a game changer if enough of them make it out there and those running the company stick to the values of universal usage. Being often I've wanted a single tool from a brand that isn't dewalt(workuse) or ryobi(for outdoor)
This is awesome! Now we are just missing these batteries sold as a DIY kit and in different sizes so we can build and customize the batteries ourselves
Looking good. Hopefully the actual units they ship are going to be like this as well and they don't pull a stunt with higher quality pre-production models and then lower the quality over time
Sounds like a wonderful world where we can choose cross brand tools that are more suited to your needs. One question would be the longevity and charge cycles they can endure. My Nikon camera batteries work fine after multiple camera generations and charges. But off brand ones fail to charge fully after 6 months to a year. My original Makita batteries from a kit I bought about 15 years ago still charge and work like the day I got them. Hopefully the PDNation and other universal batteries can maintain the amazing charge cycles and durability of the OEM ones.
Returning back to this now that my order is shipping this week: I believe the limitation in 650W is not because of the cells; I believe it's because of the MOSFET's used to push all the power through; many brands direct-connect the pack through to the power taps rather than gate them through mosfets; even with DirectFET's you need heat dissipation when you start bumping up the current, and they've chosen a rather conservative limit of ~40A. I believe the reason for this is because of the native heat-dissipation capability of the battery pack itself; there isn't exactly a lot of heat-sink ablity within that plastic-encapsulated package, and bringing any heat-sink out off the mosfets is going to be a crush-point for the power handling components of the PCB; which is better? more beans, but the first drop shorts the battery out crushing the heatsink through the mosfets, or limit the current to prevent it from blowing up?
Actually a nice innovation. Not that it's particularly new, but this is probably the first 'aftermarket' battery that actually competes with the standard batteries of the main brands. Crazy!
Love that there is is a new battery our there. Nice to have a new option. Like that now that I am not stuck with Ryobi battery now! Thank you for the video! Have a great weekend!
Imagine if someone standardized a high amp output cord style for the electric generators that have become very popular. Similar to the one you Frankensteined for dewalt or the Makita one, but instead of using 4 tool batteries you can just use the 1024Wh EcoFlow or Anker battery with an adapter to fit your tool brand. Plug back in to ac to charge at 1500-1800 watts and in an hour and a half have a fully charged battery that can also power other ac devices and charge your phone with.
I have believed for a long time we've needed real 3rd party competition for tool batteries. Glad to see a serious option that beats out buying knockoffs off ebay or amazon
My new favorite tool channel! Great job on ALL your videos as a whole!!! But about the Ceenr PDNation Universal Battery.... You can't order them for some reason.
2:55 I also love the Makita 19Z. I don't care if it drives a 3/8 lag bolt 2 seconds slower than the Milwaukee. It's smooth as silk and the trigger is absolutely perfect.
@@ulle500 Electricians seem to really like Makita for that reason. As usual, different trades have different needs, and what brand is best for one trade isn't necessarily best for another.
id love to see a test of different socket wrenches, measuring backdrag force, backlash distance, and max torque till failure. it would take some new equipment but i think it would yield some very helpful results.
Great Vid! I'm sick of being held hostage to the brand battery price points so every now and again I'll try a knock off just to test the water --that's why I'm super interested in this series that you are doing. I've found no joy until recently I'm trying a couple of "TENMOER" 18v jobs that claim 9 Ah (which is total BS) but the upside is that they do seem to perform sorta' like a 5 Ah brand bat with some strange hiccups. Haven't had 'em long enough to see how long they last but I've run them hard (mostly on angle grinders) since Jan and they still charge and run the tools decently. When one of 'em dies I'll chop it open and see what's under the hood. Dunno' if you are looking for brands to try but these are better than any other knock off's/reasonably priced batts I've tried (they are chineseeum batts so the name of them has probably changed as of this writing lol). With the ones you just tested, I do like the idea of just needing a USB C charger cable, but I usually use the brand chargers just because of their speed (and I have a bunch of them). Great stuff nonetheless and thanks for sharing!!
I've got the "made in USA" Craftsman top end hammer drill and 3/8 impact. Good to know that there is most likely large amounts of power to be gained by going with this battery and I could keep it for future brand changes.
These are available now, and looking at them, it's 80 bucks for a 4.0 with an adapter, which is okay, but you can get two 5.0 Ah replacement batteries (I buy DeWalt) for the same price. And it probably doesn't have the same amp limits that the universal has. So, given DeWalt's prices, this seems like a pretty good option. I can still find an application for this, however. One, I am a firefighter and being able to use my DW tools in the wilderness without having to bring along a separate charger (other than the one I already have for my cell phone) would be nice. And Two, there are a couple tools of other brands that DW doesn't have, for instance, Craftsman has a battery powered soldering iron.
If I'm not mistaken milwaukee and dewalt tools cut out if a certain voltage threshold is reached to protect against over discharging the batteries...???
That should be the behavior for all brands when their tool and their battery are used together. When mixing brands together that might not be the case.
I'm happy to see this. I would actually PAY MORE for a high quality battery system that "breaks the chains" of having to stick with a particular tool brand.
I just need to stop 2 minutes in for a second and state. The future of these batteries, exists in charging and output capacity. To me as a contractor this might suit drills, possibly a multi tool. My standard is milwaukee rapid charging, supercharging is the dream and the future for equipment.
I know rechargeable batteries need some kind of board to regulate the power safely, but I wonder if they can shrink the board down and make it the secondary board and put the main board on the adapters. That way they can tune the adapters for each brand. So you can get the most out of each tool and battery. It might cheapen the battery but make the adapters more expensive though.
To answer a common question: It doesn't charge on your slide on charger. I don't believe there's a way for it to work on every brand that way, and they're trying to make it so you can buy X brand and not have to buy a kit. Just the cheaper bare tool each time and for the most part ignore proprietary things. Theoretically someone could eventually just start a tool collection only ever buying bare tools.
But choosing A cheap slide on charger it could fast charge on I think would be a good idea.
Literally was in the comments about to ask if it would charge on XYZ charging systems. Thank you for addressing it in the comments.
Awesome 👌 they need a fast charger
Anybody looking for a great charger to go with it look up the "pinepower" by pine64, they also make a killer type c powered soldering iron you can power with the pinepower too ;)
Thanks! I figured this. Can you check to see if the DeWalt adapter works on Bauer or Hercules? I hear some aftermarket ones are intercompatible.
@@funkmon Good question. It does not fit/work on Herc or Bauer
Batteries are the printer ink of power tool manufacturers
Oh geeze, they're going to put DRM in drills now, aren't they.
@@robertdascoli949came here to say this. Retreating from the razor and blades model would be abandoning the one thing they learned in business school
Soon the tools will require Wifi to use them
They aren't that bad HP had their cartridges die by date even if they were not used imagine if you had to toss a fully working battery packs because it was on a shelf for a bit.
@@B0BBYGAMER I swear that already happens with milwaukee batteries.
Shoutout tool companies installing a lil’ special port and chip on their specific batteries in about a year and a half
I don't see that happening. It would cause too much trouble with existing batteries and tools in the field. This one company isn't going to cut into their margins by enough to warrant that.
@@F0XD1E On this generation.
Next season "And to satisfy the demands of customers we're changing to a new platform of 25v tools"
With serialization that would make HP and Apple jealous.
@@F0XD1E Most companies already have the hardware in there, and in cases of products like DeWalt's Flexvolt Advantage, Ryobi HP, Milwaukee Fuel, Makita LXT and XGT, they have implemented battery detection at various levels.
Oh they definitely will.
Hell, GE started putting RFID chips on their refrigerator filters just so you don't go and buy a knockoff that's 3x less.
Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita and so on, all make a LOT of money because of their battery platforms. You buy an expensive DeWalt battery and your more inclined to stay with DeWalt tools.
If you bought a universal battery? You could buy any tool and that's just unacceptable for tool brands.
Apple did it with their charging cables so I don't see why they wouldn't do a small update to the communication between tool and battery so that it checks if it's an authentic battery.
I have to say, the USB C charger is a huge selling point. I like to leave a spare impact driver in my truck and being able to charge and maintain the battery without the big charger is amazinf
Absolutely this. Got a rim on my Highlander that likes to drop air pressure when the weather swings cold to warm or warm to cold. Keeping my little Ryobi inflator with a battery I can just charge off the vehicle would cut down on some clutter for me.
DeWalt has a USB C charger and power bank. Charge the battery via USB C, or charge your laptop from the battery as a power bank.
I'm not entirely sure about that for heavy professional use, for example running an angle grinder and a hammer drill on site, we'd be constantly draining batteries, so having to wait an hour for a new one to charge would be unusable
Amazinf as guck.
@@practicalfrost5192😂😂😂
Imagine a world where you don't need to wait 8 years for your color of tool brand to make a track saw, or the type of nailer you need, or your band wont make high performance batteries because they want to push you to their higher price line, or they start downgrading tools to place it better in their brand price ladder. Let's say your brand's mid torque impact is too long to fit where you commonly need it, instead of waiting years for a new generation you just go out and buy something a little shorter, maybe even at a better price. This is the beginning steps of something like that, and that's a world i want my children to grow up in lol :P
Does Ursula von der Leyen have a way to see this? I am sure she is a fan and can help with this in the EU!
One of my biggest pet peeves is vendor lock-in. Batteries for power tools, ebikes etc., ink and toner cartridges for printers, pods for coffee makers, you name it.
Yeah, I want to live in a world where you buy the best tool for the job (within your means) without having to worry if your existing batteries will work with it. Like - if you have only DeWalt tools, but DeWalt's version of the tool you need is worse than similar priced offerings from Makita, Bosch, Ryobi and Milwaukee, why should you have to buy the crappy DeWalt tool?
But then everything wouldn’t be color coordinated!
What would be even cooler is if the battery was open source, nobody want's tooling specs or anything to reproduce it as that's their IP and costs a lot of money and absolutely protect your investment. Just take note how any right to repair friendly company's operate and model themselves are such. I feel like this is a big step in the right direction, but not the end goal that we truly need as consumers. If we can't repair this product then you truly don't own it and you're still buying e-waste in the end. This will cut down on a lot of e-waste but will still be e-waste it's self which is a sad concept that we still live in.
@@fizzyl At least they chose black. What color does black not go with?
USB-C (in the right revision) does support up to 240W power delivery. 48V at 5A
Dam son
The chargers and cables that can deliver that kind of power are pretty expensive though.
PD spec 3.1 for the 240W, type C is just a physical port and doesn't mean anything. It's the controller chip that the port is wired to that matters, so being type C doesn't mean anything other then it takes a type C cable until you know what chip is behind that port.
@@F0XD1E when you consider how much a fast charger from (insert your tool brand here) costs and how limited in functionality is, I guess the high power USB-C charger might give it a run for its money
@@pimpstick2 There are minor suggested changes to type-C cables and receptacles to support the higher voltage of EPR (essentially a couple of pins being shortened to allow detection of a sudden cable removal to reduce the chance of arcing, given the higher voltage) but that's honestly nitpicking. USB-C is great.
Drug dealer mentally is spot on. I have a garage full of Ryobi because I got a kit 20 years ago and never could bring my self to switch to another brand because of all the batteries I already have.😂
That is the best thing with Ryobi. You can put new batteries in the old tools.
@@swa5026 Ryobi - keeping mediocre, underwhelming tools running for 40 years 🤘🏻
But for us, occasional, light use, home gamers it's still a win. 😁
@@jeramystephens74 Personally I am more of a corded tool guy but the only cordless tool I use is a Ryobi drill from 20 years ago that works perfectly fine for drilling holes in wood.
@@Count_Smackula don't get me wrong. I'm not going to throw it away, but their impact wrenches are very lacking in the power department.
i recently learned the EU is actually drafting new laws to force a universal powertool battery connection. same as they did with usb-c for phones...
It's crazy how far behind the US is in so many things compared to the EU. We're busy arguing about bathrooms and wokeism while the EU is actually protecting it's people and environment.
You really think they are behind accidentally? @@CRneu
@@CRneu And the Eu doesn't even have to complain about wokeism and bathrooms, because they have that WHILE protecting the people and the environment.
Sounds good, I hope it works out. They usually just ask the industry come up with a solution and then only make it legally binding after it's been widely adopted. Transition period will always be an issue but a great idea long term.
Interesting! Now I'm invested in DeWalt flexVolt but their chainsaws are nothing good. 60ish volt battery makes sense for high power tools. For smaller tools it is a welcome change to have a 20ish volt universal battery across-the-board.
14:10 there's definitely no throttling. Throttling requires linear mosfets, which are big, expensive, and make a lot of heat. Their mosfets are either fully on or fully off. 11:34 this test shows that the CEENR has higher resistance than the Bosch or Dewalt, despite having lower resistance cells. They've clearly using cheap mosfets with high resistance. If it's losing 1V extra at 37A, that means it has an extra 27mOhm of resistance, which is quite bad. Looks like they're using 4 mosfets and 2 shunts at 12:01 (shame about the focus).
Makita LXT packs can do stand-alone cutoff just like these packs, but they have a high-end mosfet of only 0.45mOhm and a pair of shunts with 0.25mOhm resistance. Those packs can handle 110A before the pack cuts out from hitting 12.5V - so 1,250 Watts. M18 12Ah also have high-powered mosfets and I've taken them up to 160A and 2,500 Watts. Powerstack 5Ah also has cutoff mosfets and can easily go over 630 Watts. So this is just showing that you get what you pay for. Cheap batteries = cheap parts and the associated compromises.
That does make a lot of sense. Thanks!
Thanks for chiming in!
I for one would pay the same as a name brand battery for a high quality universal one. I’m just tired of being trapped in brand X only to find out that brand Y makes a better tool or one that brand X doesn’t.
Im fully okay with this not liking VTEC impacts or saws if it works on impact drivers, drills, heat guns, or any variety of more "standard" power tool. Some things are built for the best, but not everything has to be. Charging with USB C is the dream and to not need a $100 add on kit to do so is sweet.
I was thinking the same thing, my milwaukee lights or vacuums don't need high output batteries to work.
@@jonathanshaw8868 I have a Ryobi shop vac that very much wants the biggest battery I can throw at it. It's the most power hungry cordless tool I own. I'm curious about the Milwaukee counterpart you have.
@@TheBrokenLife I have a Milwaukee shop vac the 6 gallon one. It drains batteries like crazy! I'm lucky to get 10 minutes on a charge with an XC5.0. Even the 6.0 High Output struggles with it. Performance drops very fast you will only get full suction for maybe two minutes before it slows down. Strangely the best performance I have gotten from it us using an adapter and a Dewalt XR 8.0 pack.
@@VacMaster1991 That sounds pretty bad... Mine is a 2 gallon (I think?). I use a 9aH high performance Ryobi battery in mine and the total run time is around 45 minutes. Performance is very good except for maybe the last 5 minutes or so. That said, I can run a chainsaw or weedeater longer on the same battery. That vacuum is hungry. Despite that, I quite like my vac. It's really nice dust with. 😂
@@TheBrokenLife I just have the little 2 gallon m18, on 6.0 batteries you only get 15 ish minutes, your really using it as sparingly as possible. But it works good for in field activities
Batteries are so inflated and we see this through kit prices, sales, and what harbor freight sells their 12.0s for. Not long ago home depot had 3 12.0s for $400 and even more recently they had a 12.0 + two 3.0s for $200. Home depot also had a sale on their 60v tools that came with a 'free' 9.0 battery. They would never take a loss on their sales so all of this tells us that their regular prices could simply sit lower. I've already been running adapters for ~10 years though so I'm not sold on these as a completely new concept. I think they need to round those corners and potentially wrap in rubber for durability. Another big thing would be to make the adapters work for charging the batteries on name brand chargers because a hour+40 mins on a 4.0 is not feasible in the field. Overall, I like the direction they're going with this. Thanks for the video sir.
you got to get bunches of battery packs then but lugging those is a pain in arse. in freaking hot sunny days, the pack will heat up faster and reduce the time usage quite considerably. My 4.0Ah battery that should've last 40-45min went off just less than 30min on a hot day.
I LOVE any company trying to solve problems / provide solutions to people! Bonus points if you're also making it difficult for predatory companies at the same time.
The EU managed to put the USB-C on the iPhone. I can only hope among other regulations they come up with one for interchangeable batteries between tool brands. I buy mostly Parkside tools, because the batteries are cheap. And the price of the battery is the biggest obstacle to overcome for me as I am not a professional user by any means. I use tools at home, around the car and bike and to make the occasional low budget and low quality UA-cam video. So batteries sitting about doing nothing is not a good investment for me. So a Parkside 8Ah battery that works on a Milwaukee I would very much like. That said I am not a fan of the 3D printed adaptors. So go on EU take them on!
P.S. It must be said that you have made another exceptional! Thank you!
There is a risk that Parkside batteries are not as good as they seem. It would be cool to see some of the performance parkside tools tested first by TTC, then batteries themselves vs name brands. I'm just talking about performance of batteries not longevity cuz it's another story and that seems to not be a problem. Parkside seems to use cheap chinese cells inside so that would explain the cost of the battery at the shell. Even their 21700 4ah pack is most likely made out of cheep chinese 21700 cells.
@@bleyz3557 For sure Parkside batteries are nowhere near as good as say a Makita, DeWalt, Bosch. However if I could choose wether to spend more on a battery or tool I would spend on a tool. Simply because I look at the battery as a consumable so I would like a reliable tool and a cheap battery. This is by the way the view of someone who does not use these tools professionally as said in my previous comment. Of course not too cheap a battery but if it can do 95% of what a battery twice the price can do I will be more than satisfied.
Stuff the e u
From 2025 eu states (law) that all powertools from every brand should use the same battery.
I like theire thinking but its bad in reality.
@@fulf That was an April fools joke.
For a second I thought this was April fools. But now that I'm seeing it I'd love to get a 6-8ah from this brand and a Milwaukee adapter.
The Milwaukee adapter is there, but I agree - 8Ah or bust!
The biggest batteries I have are 4ah but I have many brands of tools, I just cant bring myself to pay the big battery price. But with something like this I could justify the cost if I could use it across multiple tools. I would even be willing to get a jumbo belt battery from them like the backpack battery haha
instead of them pricing them reasonably they probably pull the 14.4v ryobi and add a proprietary communication protocol thats encrypted
most tools out there just need a 3.3v signal on the temperature pin to work, but a few require a data stream like all bosch ebike batteries that hasnt been hacked yet
Insane we live in a world where batteries are encrypted...
@@kmsdaily” *safety* ” - Bosch
Not to mention, there’s a channel on here (can’t remember the name at the moment) that’s already intercepted the data stream from m18 batteries and the charger. And was able to dump the protocol.
@@mrb3888 - you are thinking of Tool Scientist.
@@kmsdailyapple has been doing this with their batteries for years
This is just going to cause tool manufactures to add a handshake to the battery, I am kinda surprised it has not happened yet.
it'll be bad as i made my own battery packs now..sighh
They kind of do, but not fully. First off a lot of tools need the temp sensor to operate, of which most battery adapters just spoof it via a static resistance and that lets the tool work. However the danger there is the tool doesn't know the actual temperature of the battery if you just put in a static median value. Secondly a lot of higher-perf. tools have some add'l "communication" with the battery--e.g. Milwaukee RedLink, Ryobi HP, etc. which is not needed to run the tool but sometimes is needed for peak performance. These are typically "simple" protocols but would have to be reverse engineered, etc. and wouldn't be within the realm of a basic adapter.
So not really handshaking but a few perhaps minor caveats to using anything "universal" via simple adapters.
@@rolandm9750it's too bad we can't just have quality adapters instead of the sea of counterfeits online etc.
Thats where we really are going to see those digital handshakes pay off, is against counterfeit, potentially dangerous batteries.
Which in turn will cause someone smarter than me to create a way of overriding or matching the handshake. We can adapt too.
Anything they add will be defeated short of adding a literal TPM with a silicon etched key into the goddamn drill lmao
Oh, neat, yesterday I saw this at Dean's channel and they looked cool but was waiting for a more in-depth view, thanks! I just hope it is not just like the xkcd "Standards" comic. And I'm afraid this won't make makers lower their prices but instead adding more security features, fuses or stuff to detect whether the battery is original or not and not draw enough power when a knock-off is detected.
Looks great. They should fix the lights always on drain and if the price is right it could be a game changer. I don't mind if the charging is on the slow side since I'm not a professional.
Batteries are becoming so expensive that it inspired me to learn about battery chemistry and electronics repair so I could Re-cell and repair M12 batteries for myself and coworkers. Why spend about $200 on batteries when I could put that money into a cheap spot welder, a nice soldering iron and like 20 high quality Samsung cells? The tools are buy once cry once and now I can repair my own stuff for a fraction of the price of instead of shelling out $60 for like $9 of lithium cells in a red flavoured plastic shell.
do not solder lithium cells as you may start a fire that is really damn hard to put out. get a welder, it'll be so much safer
Know any UA-cam videos that show you how do this?
You think like I do but they should make the packs serviceable so the average guy doesn't have to throw out the whole pack because of one bad cell.
Probably worth it for some, but for the vast majority of professionals, new batteries are cheap enough, and last long enough, to just buy new ones when needed
@@gregorsamsa1364 Your still throwing out a 90% good pack. That is the marketing scam that blows holes right through any global warming BS and is a complete waste of money. Money is money whether your a pro or not and if your a pro that means your wasting more money because you go through more packs. Don't even try to tell me you or other pros make so much money you can just burn it up like that. I'm sure you all freak out over high costs like the rest of us, have you been to the grocery store lately? I get your point, wasting time trying to fix them is not really worth the effort since they made is very difficult.
The USB charging is a great idea. Being able to charge them on the way to a jobsite in a truck, or charge off generic cell phone portable chargers are not the most efficient ways to charge, but most definitely would be useful.
This is the most valuable video I've watched in a while. 👍
I mean a lot of times at work it's cheaper to buy a kit with a tool, charger and 2 batteries, than a single battery.
This is awesome. I REALLY do hope this takes off and sends the message that needs to be sent to the manufacturers of tools.
The lights staying on and draining the battery in a few days is an absolute dealbreaker.
Should take about 18-24 days. But I fully agree it's stupid
@@TorqueTestChannel to be clear though this is only with an adapter on or on a tool? If it just sits in 'powerbank' mode will we be okay to leave it for weeks and not worry?
@@gloriousapplebees Correct, in power bank mode you could leave it for 6-10 months like most batteries.
@@TorqueTestChannel Gotcha, still silly but that's easy enough to work around... as long as you remember LOL
Thanks for all your work!
@@TorqueTestChannel - was this drain true for all adapters, or just certain ones?
My hunch is that the adapters might have some special electronics in them for some tool brands, but maybe not for others, and the power being drawn is running that bit of electronics. Just a hunch that could be completely wrong.
This newcomer has got the right idea. They already have a good product, with the potential to be an amazing product, if they iron a few things out and consider the feedback from their customers. Down the line, they could easily up the charging wattage to 65 or 100 watts; technically, they could go up to 240, but that would be harder to accomplish. I approve, let us pull a few more amps from those spicy cells though please!
i like to buy used tools from goodwills and stuff, this is a HUGE thing for me, i can stop worrying about the cost of a missing battery
Kudos on a magnificent video. Unbiased, candid, with specs, facts and figures. Props to Ceenr PDNation for trying to break the industry vendor lock in.
Looks like a good idea for diy'ers but for me I love the 15-20min charge time on my Makita 18v 4ah batteries ... By the time I run one down the other is fully charged.
If only the blooming batteries didn't cost an arm and a leg.
With an appropriate charger it should charge just as fast. In the video he was using a laptop charger for some weird reason. Only thing that sucks about rapid charge is it severely degrades the batteries overtime.
I recently picked up the Craftsman CMCD721B Brushless hammerdrill (USA Made) and man I've been impressed with it. It's a beast. I've been quite surprised and impressed with all my Craftsman powertools. Really like em.
For a couple of projects I've just bought a $10 battery adapter online so I can use my rigid batteries with cordless harbor freight tools. Seems to work fine although the voltage is slightly different.
Yeah I don't see the point of buying into this, it's just trying to sucker you into buying more batteries.
An adapter for your existing branded batteries to work on whatever new tool from another brand you're looking at is the way to go.
I absolutely love how you threw in the craftsman drill stats as bonus content for this video. I love getting even more than I thought I was 💙
Companies have already been making the adapters for years. I have a craftsman leaf blower and weed-eater, all of my tools are dewalt. I bought an adapter because the 2amh battery that came with the blower are trash. It was $20-25 on Amazon and they have them for every platform.
Same here. I run a DeWalt 10Ah on my Craftsman leaf blower. Huge difference. I also noticed the bigger batteries help balance the weed whackers better.
Sure you, can get certain DeWalt to other brand adapters, but you have to keep finding adapter if you get a random tool from another company.
But this is like a "universal" battery. One 5AH battery is $50 bucks. That's almost $50 less than say a Milwaukee battery. So for $100 bucks you could get two batteries with two tool adapters.
Then say you get one random tool, for $20 you get an adapter.
Also they could keep adding more brand adapters even like HF brands Bauer and Hercules or higher end ones like FES TOOLS. No need for battery specific chargers either.
Once they work out the kinks, this ideal of a universal battery could change things for the consumers
I love this idea. Hope it’s successful everywhere . I had a 12v combo set . Not brilliant but handy. Batteries died, could I find a new battery pack? Heck no! It’s been discontinued so would need to buy a new combo set, or? I bought adapters for the Black and Decker 14v batteries and fitted those. What a hassle! It was only because the little set has proven to be handy to have in the back of the van that I bothered. I’ve used B&D professionally for years now on site, my theft rate has dropped to virtually zero yet the tools have done all I’ve asked over the years.
The combo set now works on the B&D batteries better than ever. But if universal batteries were available it would save so much trouble and so much e-waste. Especially when you quite often find your favourite tool on sale ,with battery, for less than the cost of a new battery. Promo’s like that are great for us but just generates even more e-waste.
I remember DMing yall this. So glad to see a video on it.
Very cool and useful video! As the owner of many, many DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, and HF tools… this really hit home
PD nation should add a turbo switch which allows full draw with the caveat that some tools might break
We'd tape the button down! haha
You're talking about the same consumers that allow channels like "Just Rolled In" to thrive. Not a good idea to have your product potentially breaking a customers hundred dollar tool.
As somebody that has inherited drills or got them i thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. This is gonna be so much easier and cheaper long run
Maybe a switch or button on the battery where you can put it into Hi/Low. I imagine Hi will reduce the life of the battery as well, but for tougher jobs might be nice. Something like that starts to make the battery 'complicated' for some, but might attract others who want to be able to extend the life of the battery vs maxing it out all the time.
Awesome! I really like the PD nation idea. As an initial roll out it seems really good. I believe they will have it working great even at high current demands in no time at all. It's not easy developing all that. I have considered it to some level myself in the past. I wish them the best with this! Excellent testing TTC!
Looks like they've skimped on the cutoff mosfets, unfortunately. From the load test we see the CEENR losing an extra 1V compared to Bosch/Dewalt - that means it's got an extra 27mOhm of resistance. LXT 5 & 6Ah, M18 12Ah, Powerstack 5Ah, and then all Ridgid/AEG and Ryobi have cutoff mosfets, and they can all easily do more than 50A.
You can see a blurry boardshot at 12:01. Looks like it goes B- > 2x shunts > 4x mosfets > P-. There's also a really big inductor, capacitors, and another pair of mosfets, which I guess is a buck/boost circuit for the USB-PD.
0:22 Nice, a company that cannot even get the spelling of "battery" correct. It instills confidence.
This is pretty awesome! I’m guessing this 4ah is a proof of concept to see if it’d sell and will probably be making a larger pack in the near future. It’s a promising system!
I am standardized on deWalt 20v, I buy an adapter for each tool to make life simpler usually for Ryobi or 18v deWalt. $20 per adapter makes it a no go for me. The batteries would have to be cheaper or more capacity for me to switch. There doesn't appear to be an advantage unless I was starting from scratch on batteries.
I used to work at Walmart, out in the auto department, and one day my manager decided we needed a leaf blower and a spare battery, so he sent me up to the store to grab some stuff off the shelf. Hart leafblower was listed at around $100 on the shelf. Spare, high-capacity battery was listed at $200. Because a high-capacity 40V is literally 4 of the 20V batteries shoved together in one case.
It's a great ideaThis would definitely help convince me to try different brands of tools / use a brand that excels in one area but doesn't represent well in others.
Worth mentioning that in the low-end drill comparison chart (6:03), only *some* of those models are advertised as brushless motors. If that's not important to you, you can get the Craftsman CMCD700C1 instead for significantly cheaper. Not that I'd recommend that.
The problem with this is that I can already just buy $15 adapters for all of my tool batteries to adapt them to my other tools.
Update having received my order today: Batteries are still using P42A's, soldering job looks good, conformal coating or paint or whatever is kinda "meh" but otherwise good execution.
Opened up one of the adapters, (Milwaukee in this case) and found good soldering work, however instead of using a thermocouple passthrough to the tool, they are using static resistors in the adaptor to "trick" the tool into operating without thermal rollback functionality. Not an ideal solution, if I'm being honest. If different brands use different thermal sensors, why not do software-scaling in your adapters? And if they all use the same rated NTC thermocouple, why not pass that to the tool? So far my only complaint. Adaptors can definitely handle the current these battery packs can push by my evaluation.
Test the Klein Tools impact driver and impact wrenches! would be cool to see how they stack up!
they're just middle of the road DeWalt's
@@wim0104 Still would like to see Torque Test Channel talk about them and review it with some thoughts! big Klein fan here so would make me happy!
Seems like a really great option for pro-hos and weekend warriors right out the gate. Makes it so you can pick up some used tools for cheap, then not have to worry about getting battery setups for everything you find. Not sure about how much I'd trust it in a professional setting, but with a bit of tuning these batteries could be a real game changer.
Sadly you can't find these batteries anywhere. Sold out. I'm sure stocks will come back up.
HOWEVER I'm sure manufacturers will make it so only their tool works with their battery.
They're technically not on sale yet. We bought one early directly from Ceenr by emailing them asking to
Northern tool just released their klutch brand drills and impacts. Time for a review. Very reasonably priced
This could potentially change everything and keep the big guys honest.
In before chips in batteries to handshake with the tool to even turn on
@@TorqueTestChannelI hate that you're probably right about that! We can also go the route of taking the verification chips out and attaching them to the universal battery like people do with k cups or printer cartridges. Though depending on how it's implemented this could be easier said than done.
@@TorqueTestChannel+inb4 tool companies claim that's for "consumer safety" lol
My old C3 style Craftsman impact & drill (2K era) are jealous of all your newfangled fancy batteries.
I'll just keep what has never failed me. But honestly they work so well that there's no reason to replace them.
The charging solution is really half baked in my opinion. I feel like this really wouldn't work for many people, having to plug the battery in is a bit fiddly compared to just popping it on a charger. If they come out with their own charger and keep the usb c port (that way you can use either of them) then it can still be considered not locked-down while having the convenience of a standard tool battery charger.
Smart, i like it
How is plugging a type c cable into something more fiddly then trying to get it into the rails of a big bulky charger? It just sounds like "Old man yells at cloud about how he fears change" kinda thing. Type C is so universal that there is no need to make big bulky wastes of plastic and space.
@@pimpstick2big clunky plastic rails with big clunky contacts have a purpose when you wear big clunky gloves and are in a potentially dusty environment that could easily clog up a usb c port
@@pimpstick2 I find that plugging in my phone takes much more dexterity compared to charging my makita batteries. To plug in my phone I have to fiddle a bit with a tiny connector, while to charge a makita battery I essentially just throw it on the charger with a kinda-right orientation and the rails line everything up. as nicfab1 said, there's a reason chargers are designed like that, and the abuse things in a workshop need to withstand is much greater than the abuse things in consumer environments need to withstand. I absolutely love usb c, don't get me wrong, it's just not the correct choice for the job IMO.
@@nicfab1The regular chargers also can clog with dust. Either way I have compressed air piped everywhere including up to and in the kitchen and out in the driveway. I can just connect a blow gun and blow out the port. Not a big deal. I lose the tool chargers all the time but I have millions of type C chargers and can get more for $1.
Been doing this for years with battery adapters from Amazon. I use dewalt 20v batteries on all brands of cordless 18/20v tools. Works great when you're scouring yard sales
I’ve seen ads for this lately, but I thought they were just fake garbage like Temu type stuff. This is genius. If they can get it perfected, this would be be pretty dang cool. Too bad I already have about 12 dewalt batteries, 8 kobalt batteries, 5 Metabo batteries, 6 Milwaukee batteries, 10 Ryobi batteries, 4 Worx batteries 😡
Damn, you're going to turn into us if you're not careful!
One of the reasons I went with Kobalt back in 2016, was the (now discontinued) $19.99, 1.5Ah battery, even though I never bought one, and never got one in a kit. Even at $29, the 2.0Ah is still a good/great value.
In simple terms, it is a battery with adapters for tools from various brands
Then it's not really "universal". Adapters have been widely available for 3 years, but they don't come with batteries. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
Yes, though most adapters adapt one battery from one brand with another never meant to be together. And sparks, melting, weird stuff can result from that depending on the pairing under heavy load. This is a battery and board made to work with all of those brands, and adapter hats to clip into them. Though, some of those hiccups linger it seems, but we feel they are mostly self imposed safety ones.
@@TorqueTestChannel I consider it an incremental improvement, not a revolutionary one that will change the industry in a meaningful way. I fear if the tool manufacturers don't get together and come to an agreement on 1 interface, the government will force it. That never turns out well for anyone.
@@Bob_Adkins why would the government care enough to intervene?
@@cilli5866 They don't care. Remember the horrible curly fluorescent light bulbs they foisted on us, the fake recycling and electric cars? That's the kind of stupidity we can expect. If the tool manufacturers don't agree on a universal battery format pretty soon, the government will surely do it, and we won't like the result.
Nice to see someone ran with this idea. I have two generic adapters to run my older Dewalt drill and my Dyson hand vac off my M18 batteries. So the idea has some merit.
Really, no ryobi? Some of us have to work with our means here
Ryobi’s batteries are pretty cheap and often on sale. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t feel an adapter was worth it.
They have one now
I agree with you its annoying how tool brands get ya first ones free then its a arm and a leg hit the nail right on the head these batteries these days are highway robbery i swear 17:00 @Torque Test Channel
so, the PDNation can not charge on the charger of say a Dewalt with the dewalt adapter? I NEEDS to charge from the USB charging port?
No way to charge on every brands charger, so better they dont pick one brand otherwise you're back to where you've started with proprietary stuff. USB-C is the opposite of proprietary which makes sense. Edit: Wow, USB-C these days can spit out some serious watts is seems!
@@TorqueTestChannel fair. Hopefully, they can work some kinks out with the board and let the molecells out as you suggested, while also at the same time allowing up to 100w charging (many modern flagship cellphones can take 80-100w charging) to help speed things along. Its a great idea, and I hope it goes far. I just feel it still has some kinks to iron out.
@@TorqueTestChannel USB PD max charge is 240w.
PDNATION could go a step above and make their cells replaceable so if one dies you can swap it out and be more environmentally friendly. Totally doable, upfront cost would just be slightly more expensive for the consumer.
I don't really need a universal battery. I need a high quality adapter that I don't have to worry will burst into flames, so I can use my many existing batteries on other brands. The current adapters are sketchy.
This guy's we find take the heat: www.etsy.com/shop/3DPrintedAdapters
i can see this being good for a diy person, someone that has collected different older tools over the years with the batteries dying on them, this would be really useful that they can still use the tools without spending lots on buying new battries for different brands. and being a diy person, you dont need the max the tool can provide, usually you just need it to work to complete the job as doing work for themselves.
Universal should also include charging with whatever brand charger you have. Put the brand adapter on and charge the PDNation on a Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc charger.
Not sure that's physically possible. Each charger wants, checks for separate things
I think it is more realistic for them to add charging via USB PD which would in theory cap out at 240 Watts. If they tried to add compatibility to all chargers they would need an unnecessarily complex battery management system as every brand uses different types of battery management systems in their tools.
@@TorqueTestChannel I think some people don’t understand the mechanics of tools. To them, it is just magic.
This is pretty cool. I'm a weirdo with cordless tools from more than a half-dozen brands. I'm not loyal nor am I above using an adapter when the batteries I have for each brand are drained and there's perfectly good ones, in a variety of colors, sitting on my shelf waiting to be used.
I don't need more batteries, but I might buy one or two just because!
Is the usb-c port bi-directional? Can it be used to charge other devices?
Yes, both USB-A and USB-C can be used at the same time to charge out. Totaling 2.2A from both or about 2A from 1
What would be really cool is if it was not only bi-directional but if you could charge and discharge them at the same time, IE have a corded setup able to give it extra juice/charge and be able to go cordless whenever you wanted.
You guys make the difference when it comes to the power tool industry. That being said this battery could be a game changer if enough of them make it out there and those running the company stick to the values of universal usage. Being often I've wanted a single tool from a brand that isn't dewalt(workuse) or ryobi(for outdoor)
First
This is awesome! Now we are just missing these batteries sold as a DIY kit and in different sizes so we can build and customize the batteries ourselves
Fantastic! The only thing I don't like about it is the sharp corners. Easy fix with some table corner protectors though.
Looking good. Hopefully the actual units they ship are going to be like this as well and they don't pull a stunt with higher quality pre-production models and then lower the quality over time
Sounds like a wonderful world where we can choose cross brand tools that are more suited to your needs. One question would be the longevity and charge cycles they can endure. My Nikon camera batteries work fine after multiple camera generations and charges. But off brand ones fail to charge fully after 6 months to a year. My original Makita batteries from a kit I bought about 15 years ago still charge and work like the day I got them. Hopefully the PDNation and other universal batteries can maintain the amazing charge cycles and durability of the OEM ones.
i love this. i already used one tool brand of batteries on all of my 18-20v tools with adapters, and my 12v stuff being the exception. love to see it!
Your channel is invaluable - arms your viewers with great information. Tabulated tool ranking is great. Thank you.
Returning back to this now that my order is shipping this week: I believe the limitation in 650W is not because of the cells; I believe it's because of the MOSFET's used to push all the power through; many brands direct-connect the pack through to the power taps rather than gate them through mosfets; even with DirectFET's you need heat dissipation when you start bumping up the current, and they've chosen a rather conservative limit of ~40A. I believe the reason for this is because of the native heat-dissipation capability of the battery pack itself; there isn't exactly a lot of heat-sink ablity within that plastic-encapsulated package, and bringing any heat-sink out off the mosfets is going to be a crush-point for the power handling components of the PCB; which is better? more beans, but the first drop shorts the battery out crushing the heatsink through the mosfets, or limit the current to prevent it from blowing up?
Just bought a Metabo finishing nailer and was hoping to see Metabo on the list. too bad.
Nice to see my favorite Craftsman drill getting some recognition.
impressed to see all the measuring devices you've added since last i tuned in
The equipment this channel has, dude, the tools you have are just a whole lot! I bet the testing tools cost much more than $50k
Actually a nice innovation. Not that it's particularly new, but this is probably the first 'aftermarket' battery that actually competes with the standard batteries of the main brands. Crazy!
Love that there is is a new battery our there. Nice to have a new option. Like that now that I am not stuck with Ryobi battery now! Thank you for the video! Have a great weekend!
Imagine if someone standardized a high amp output cord style for the electric generators that have become very popular. Similar to the one you Frankensteined for dewalt or the Makita one, but instead of using 4 tool batteries you can just use the 1024Wh EcoFlow or Anker battery with an adapter to fit your tool brand. Plug back in to ac to charge at 1500-1800 watts and in an hour and a half have a fully charged battery that can also power other ac devices and charge your phone with.
I have believed for a long time we've needed real 3rd party competition for tool batteries. Glad to see a serious option that beats out buying knockoffs off ebay or amazon
Could you please test one of the new einhell cordless impacts, since these tools are broadly available in Europe
My new favorite tool channel! Great job on ALL your videos as a whole!!! But about the Ceenr PDNation Universal Battery.... You can't order them for some reason.
2:55 I also love the Makita 19Z. I don't care if it drives a 3/8 lag bolt 2 seconds slower than the Milwaukee.
It's smooth as silk and the trigger is absolutely perfect.
I feel like while makita usually isn't the fastest or most powerful, the ergonomics are better
@@ulle500 Electricians seem to really like Makita for that reason. As usual, different trades have different needs, and what brand is best for one trade isn't necessarily best for another.
id love to see a test of different socket wrenches, measuring backdrag force, backlash distance, and max torque till failure. it would take some new equipment but i think it would yield some very helpful results.
Great Vid! I'm sick of being held hostage to the brand battery price points so every now and again I'll try a knock off just to test the water --that's why I'm super interested in this series that you are doing. I've found no joy until recently I'm trying a couple of "TENMOER" 18v jobs that claim 9 Ah (which is total BS) but the upside is that they do seem to perform sorta' like a 5 Ah brand bat with some strange hiccups. Haven't had 'em long enough to see how long they last but I've run them hard (mostly on angle grinders) since Jan and they still charge and run the tools decently. When one of 'em dies I'll chop it open and see what's under the hood. Dunno' if you are looking for brands to try but these are better than any other knock off's/reasonably priced batts I've tried (they are chineseeum batts so the name of them has probably changed as of this writing lol). With the ones you just tested, I do like the idea of just needing a USB C charger cable, but I usually use the brand chargers just because of their speed (and I have a bunch of them). Great stuff nonetheless and thanks for sharing!!
I've got the "made in USA" Craftsman top end hammer drill and 3/8 impact. Good to know that there is most likely large amounts of power to be gained by going with this battery and I could keep it for future brand changes.
The Craftsman 4ah put out more power and Lowes just had them on sale for $39/ea.
Good for low draw tools. The big tools draw way more amps, so the bms cutoff will turn off your battery to save it.
Genuinely informative! Great episode from a reliable channel.
These are available now, and looking at them, it's 80 bucks for a 4.0 with an adapter, which is okay, but you can get two 5.0 Ah replacement batteries (I buy DeWalt) for the same price. And it probably doesn't have the same amp limits that the universal has. So, given DeWalt's prices, this seems like a pretty good option.
I can still find an application for this, however. One, I am a firefighter and being able to use my DW tools in the wilderness without having to bring along a separate charger (other than the one I already have for my cell phone) would be nice. And Two, there are a couple tools of other brands that DW doesn't have, for instance, Craftsman has a battery powered soldering iron.
That's the design, nice and square like in 80's I approve of that. Beautiful!!!
If I'm not mistaken milwaukee and dewalt tools cut out if a certain voltage threshold is reached to protect against over discharging the batteries...???
That should be the behavior for all brands when their tool and their battery are used together. When mixing brands together that might not be the case.
I'm happy to see this.
I would actually PAY MORE for a high quality battery system that "breaks the chains" of having to stick with a particular tool brand.
I just need to stop 2 minutes in for a second and state.
The future of these batteries, exists in charging and output capacity.
To me as a contractor this might suit drills, possibly a multi tool.
My standard is milwaukee rapid charging, supercharging is the dream and the future for equipment.
Might be time to update the Bauer drill in the charts. They now have the brushless 2191CR-B for $40.
I'm really hoping this brand takes off.
I know rechargeable batteries need some kind of board to regulate the power safely, but I wonder if they can shrink the board down and make it the secondary board and put the main board on the adapters. That way they can tune the adapters for each brand. So you can get the most out of each tool and battery. It might cheapen the battery but make the adapters more expensive though.