I couldn‘t agree more. I am using the Wing for several different types of music. Brass Bands, BigBands, Choirs, Unplugged concerts, RockBands, Church services - and I love this board. It is so flexible, has such a great sound, huge number of great sounding effects and plugins. Think it is the best console you get for your money in this price class.
Possibly.. I think if you have a lot of experience with other consoles, the workflow for the Wing will feel off. It definitely takes a little bit of a mindset shift!
This is also my experience. The Wing needs a certain time of mindshift. The major topic is the separation of inputs (sources) and channels. This gives you lot of flexibility but is also hard to understand when you come from a more „traditional“ console where input (source) is linked to the channel. Second, Behringer had definitely quality issues with some of their consoles and the touch screens. This might also be a reason for a high number of complaints. And third: With all this complexity and flexibility of the console there is no manual from Behringer available. And parts of the console are definitely NOT self-explaining. This leads also to questions and issues.
Great, thanks for your video. I recently got a Wing and I found the routing flow tricky to get my head around. Its definitely a 'mindset'. Sort of turning off your traditional routing flow instincts and cleaning the slate and seeing it in a new unit of time. Old habits die hard.
Yeah, I think you’re exactly right! For people who’ve been in the mixing game for a long time it probably feels foreign.. but in my own experience I’ve never used anything better!
Hey Zach! Great video. We use one of the four Mains for our livestream mix. It is easy to set individual proportional levels for each channel. For example, we usually add 3db for piano and drums in the livestream mix because they are lower in the PA due to stage volume while dropping vocals 2db. It is a trial and error approach. I usually record the rehearsal on the Wing Live card and save a snapshot of the mix for each song. After the rehearsal I can play the session back with the PA muted and solo the livestream main to check the mix there. Instead of moving faders I change the send value to the livestream main for each channel. Maybe this will work for you. Blessings and thanks again for posting this.
Yeah.. I realized that approach only recently on our WING. We don't have another volunteer to JUST do Livestream audio - but the mix for stream DEFINITELY needs to be different than House mix.. Even compressors need to be different to a degree. The best thing about the WING is that there are several ways to set up another MATRIX mix (a second livestream mix set different is just another 'matrix mix'). You can even use the 'TRIM' settings on each channel to get better levels to your DAW without changing the main GAIN (Trim) for the input. I came from a Soundcraft VS3000 (which is overkill for most churches) which was AWESOME on many levels - came over to the WING and this captures some of the best qualities of the Soundcraft and newer digital console design. Couldn't be happier with it.
Btw. a few other points I just thought of: 1) I really dig your video and audio quality in this video! 🤩Thanks for putting in the work. It goes a long way in making your video accessible 😊 2) Concerning reason #3 you gave: after having mixed on the wing for a few months now, I actually feel the opposite way. I’m not as fast on the wing as I was on the X32, I gues partly because the touch screen doesn’t always respond to lighter touch. Wanting to be quick, I’ve found myself having to push a touch display button THREE times instead of just once, whereas with the physical buttons on the X32 I felt like I was lightning fast. :D 3) Custom button section: I got some ideas from Ascension Worship (e.g. encoders for reverb decay times, buttons for quickly accessing FX settings and FX bus SoF). What I DON’T like is that unlinke the X32, the Wing doesn’t continuously show me what decay time I’m currently on! I have to touch the encoder for it to show me that. Makes no sense IMO. 4) That weird section next to the main display: still don’t use it. It does nothing for me that’s more intuitive or faster than the main display. Instead, I wish I could simply get an encoder for panning, because I sometimes adjust that on vocals from song to song. Honestly, the channel strip on the X32 is something I still miss. 5) Another downside: fader speed. Sometimes I have to go back and forth between layers quickly and the motors can’t always keep up. It really bothers me when hardware is slower than I am because it’s one extra thing to pay attention to. This goes for the "fastest" setting the Wing has to offer. Even the X32 faders are faster. The M32 is super snappy, just how it should be. 6) Final gripe: custom colors. Why, why, why are there like 15 different kinds of blue, and almost nothing else? All the colors on the X32 were easily distinguishable. On the Wing, my team and I found ourselves strategically planning out how many clearly identifiable color groups we could realistically use. SMH. Also, I preferred the colored displays on the X32, even though the small colored LEDs in the Wing are alright.
I thought the 12 faders on bank 1 would be cumbersome, but so far it hasn't been an issue. I'm sure extra motorized faders would add a decent amount to the price. One thing I just figured out about the channel strip area on the top right is that the meter is post fader, so now I use it to compare pre and post levels for a selected channel. It's pretty cool, but doesn't justify that console real estate. I would like to see more on screen in versus out levels like the X32/M32 has. We also use the house console to mix our stream. I have busses that mirror our DCAs and are fed post fader. I can then add bus compression and some nice emulated EQ to the stream mix - I actually use the bus compressed vocal steram bus to feed our front fill speakers. Mixing stream in the house is far from ideal but it has worked pretty well so far - we are moving to a separate stream mix console so we can make the house mix more accessible to volunteers - currently there are only two of us who are not intimidated by the house and stream mix combo. The biggest complaint I have is more about Music Tribe than the Wing - they messed up their message board area so badly that folks moved away into a Facebook group, which I hate. I would love to be able to post on the Behringer message boards and be confident that folks on the dev team would see some of my suggestions.
Yeah love that stream/house mix setup! We're currently testing out a stream mix setup with the WING. I'm liking the results so far, but there are still some elements that I need to dial in. And yeah, I'm in a couple FB groups for the WING and at least there's a good bit of info you can find in those groups.
12 verses 16 fader layout - From a block of channel layout it makes sense for 12 Faders. Now you can match blocks of faders more critically by group. The 2 larger groups would be vocals and drums. Fully micing drums in a single block of 12 verses 16 lines up more common usage. How often does one use more than 12 individual mics? With that taken care of, one can now drop the remaining sources into the last 2 layers (blocks). This method shrinks the board size view, if you will. This is is similar in how we use to train team members on large analog consoles usage, back in the day. Make the board seam smaller.
Nice video Zach! Very much agree that the upper & mid/right quadrant of the mixer is wasted space. As with most modern digital consoles they were trying to be the best of both LIVE and DAW worlds. But even with that.. that UPPER right panel just seems to be a restatement of things elsewhere.. and I'd MUCH rather look at the bigger touch screen than that little one up there. Still trying to look for a video that show THAT area of the WING being utilized REAL WELL.
One thing that I would find myself not using is the talkback section. That is, if I plan on thinking about using Wing as an audio interface. I would find myself using DSP processing with EQ and compression when going out from one track in the DAW and then print the processed signal back into the DAW before I export the tracks into a single audio file.
I’ve just recently started using the WING for our livestream mix. Fine tuning that and might work on a video once I feel like I have something worth sharing 👊🏼👊🏼
I just bought a new Wing so I can learn how to use a digital mixing station. I am very new to digital mixing as I was working on an analog mixer before my church bought a Behringer X32. (a story for another time). I am preparing to teach myself how to use and navigate myself around this board. So far I love it, being a newbie of newbies. I truly appreciate all the videos that you guys put out because they are a great help. Thank you so much.
This is quite a jumping-off point to dive into digital mixing, lol. The WING doesn't work quite the same as pretty much any other digital mixer on the market. The workflow, routing, and general approach to sources/channels/outputs is not reflective of any other mixer I know of. So if you do have to mix on a different board at some point, be aware you'll have a bit of a re-learning curve there. That said, I don't think you've chosen a bad starting point, just an unusual one. This seems like a great board and a great investment for any church. And, for me at least, I have WAY more fun with digital mixing than with analog!
Yeah, I know for me I don't want to mix on anything else other than the WING now 🤷♂️ Sounds like a great idea to grab one for personal use and then have it for any other gigs 🤔
We have a x33 and are looking to upgrade due to needing additional channels. I like the wing but notice it has only 48 channels, probaley need to buy another stage box. Thoughts?
Yeah I thought the same thing at first! But it actually a 48 STEREO channel board. So each of those channels can be stereo. So if you run a lot of things stereo that will save you space. Vs on the x32 if you want to run stereo you have to use two separate channels for left and right
You would definitely need to add more Stage boxes. The great thing is that the board allows for 3 AES50 connections. Not sure how daisy chaining off the Stage boxes would work with this board, curious to find out. They say that with all of the IO’s of the Wing it’s pretty close to 400. I would love to see this in action.
Haven't used the StudioLive boards in a minute! Only have experience with the older line.. but I'll tell you after the WING, I wouldn't want to go back!
10:19 I don’t see how that could be the case. When you’re playing something back from your DAW, since there’s no analog to digital conversion or any other kind of processing happening, how would the console affect the sound? As far as I know, it really shouldn’t - since a digital console fundamentally sounds transparent (just like a DAW will). It’s not like it applies some kind of "character" to every individual signal that it handles. I’ve mixed on a Wing only once so far, but my church just got one and I spent the entire day setting it up, planning how to use the busses available (16 stereo busses are awesome, but when youre used to mixing in a DAW, they get used up REAL fast :D) and so on. Like you, I don’t see myself using the two sections to the right of the touch screen. I know Behringer touted that section as something that would allow two people to work on the board simultaneously... but in what universe does that ever happen? Not the one that I live in anyway.
Yeah I see what you mean about the board not effecting the sound. Though, I could be wrong, but I think it has something to do with the Preamps giving more clarity to the audio signal being sent to the PA. The preamps from the WING are definitely better than the preamps in the X32
@@ZachBrownMedia @Zach Brown Ok, so just for claritiy’s sake: if we’re talking about preamps, that would have to be mic preamps (which are technically better in the Wing - not sure I could tell the difference tho). The outputs of the Wing might in fact be better... 🤔Haven’t done any testing or looked up tests from other people. But generally both the X23’s as well as Wing’s outputs should have a linear frequency response in the audible range. Anything else would be pretty weird. It’s possible that the X32/S32/... outputs have more distortion, but like I said, I haven’t seen any measurements. I have noticed though that the X32, even with the master muted, produces more noise than my church’s old analog mixer did. That’s unfortunate, but not a huge deal. What kind of stagebox are you guys running btw? And do you use the Wing’s physical outputs for normal operation? I actually think your explanation might be on point :D With a volunteer team, I can see how a mix might devolve over time so that it’s helpful to start from scratch. I like to do that at least once a year for that very reason. =)
The fact that a church can afford this kind of equipment when there are starving people in the world (indeed, in your country/state/city) is really worrying.
I think the same judgment could be made toward anyone who owns an iPhone or a $100 pair of shoes. This is also a fraction of what the church gives towards mission/outreach/etc.. so without knowing anything else about the church I don't think it's fair to make such a judgment with so little information.
@@ZachBrownMedia "I think the same judgment could be made toward anyone who owns an iPhone or a $100 pair of shoes." No it couldn't. Generally, people aren't asking other people for money to buy their goods. "This is also a fraction of what the church gives towards mission/outreach/etc" It may be, but wouldn't it be better to give it all? "so without knowing anything else about the church I don't think it's fair to make such a judgment with so little information" You're parading your expensive, studio-grade audio equipment on UA-cam. So, yes, yes I can. I've wandered around America and seen the churches (especially in in CA) where beautiful, pristine "houses of charity" are little more than vulgar displays of wealth... In the heart of communities in crisis, no less 🤦♂ You need to have a massive rethink, my friend.
This board for what it does, is one of the least expensive items in a sound system. 6k for a pair of self powered QSC tops with 10’s alone. Some mega churches have a dozen of these speakers.
What our Volunteers think about the WING -> ua-cam.com/video/Rcz3Ju11WjA/v-deo.html
I couldn‘t agree more. I am using the Wing for several different types of music. Brass Bands, BigBands, Choirs, Unplugged concerts, RockBands, Church services - and I love this board. It is so flexible, has such a great sound, huge number of great sounding effects and plugins. Think it is the best console you get for your money in this price class.
You’re definitely putting it through it’s paces! For sure a top pick in its price range.
I think these guys who complain they are just looking for viewers and attention
Possibly.. I think if you have a lot of experience with other consoles, the workflow for the Wing will feel off. It definitely takes a little bit of a mindset shift!
This is also my experience. The Wing needs a certain time of mindshift. The major topic is the separation of inputs (sources) and channels. This gives you lot of flexibility but is also hard to understand when you come from a more „traditional“ console where input (source) is linked to the channel.
Second, Behringer had definitely quality issues with some of their consoles and the touch screens. This might also be a reason for a high number of complaints.
And third: With all this complexity and flexibility of the console there is no manual from Behringer available. And parts of the console are definitely NOT self-explaining. This leads also to questions and issues.
Great, thanks for your video. I recently got a Wing and I found the routing flow tricky to get my head around. Its definitely a 'mindset'. Sort of turning off your traditional routing flow instincts and cleaning the slate and seeing it in a new unit of time. Old habits die hard.
Yeah, I think you’re exactly right! For people who’ve been in the mixing game for a long time it probably feels foreign.. but in my own experience I’ve never used anything better!
Hey Zach! Great video. We use one of the four Mains for our livestream mix. It is easy to set individual proportional levels for each channel. For example, we usually add 3db for piano and drums in the livestream mix because they are lower in the PA due to stage volume while dropping vocals 2db. It is a trial and error approach. I usually record the rehearsal on the Wing Live card and save a snapshot of the mix for each song. After the rehearsal I can play the session back with the PA muted and solo the livestream main to check the mix there. Instead of moving faders I change the send value to the livestream main for each channel. Maybe this will work for you. Blessings and thanks again for posting this.
Thanks! Yeah that's a great workflow! If I end up working on a live stream mix through the Wing, I'll definitely be doing something similar!
Yeah.. I realized that approach only recently on our WING. We don't have another volunteer to JUST do Livestream audio - but the mix for stream DEFINITELY needs to be different than House mix.. Even compressors need to be different to a degree. The best thing about the WING is that there are several ways to set up another MATRIX mix (a second livestream mix set different is just another 'matrix mix'). You can even use the 'TRIM' settings on each channel to get better levels to your DAW without changing the main GAIN (Trim) for the input. I came from a Soundcraft VS3000 (which is overkill for most churches) which was AWESOME on many levels - came over to the WING and this captures some of the best qualities of the Soundcraft and newer digital console design. Couldn't be happier with it.
Btw. a few other points I just thought of:
1) I really dig your video and audio quality in this video! 🤩Thanks for putting in the work. It goes a long way in making your video accessible 😊
2) Concerning reason #3 you gave: after having mixed on the wing for a few months now, I actually feel the opposite way. I’m not as fast on the wing as I was on the X32, I gues partly because the touch screen doesn’t always respond to lighter touch. Wanting to be quick, I’ve found myself having to push a touch display button THREE times instead of just once, whereas with the physical buttons on the X32 I felt like I was lightning fast. :D
3) Custom button section: I got some ideas from Ascension Worship (e.g. encoders for reverb decay times, buttons for quickly accessing FX settings and FX bus SoF). What I DON’T like is that unlinke the X32, the Wing doesn’t continuously show me what decay time I’m currently on! I have to touch the encoder for it to show me that. Makes no sense IMO.
4) That weird section next to the main display: still don’t use it. It does nothing for me that’s more intuitive or faster than the main display. Instead, I wish I could simply get an encoder for panning, because I sometimes adjust that on vocals from song to song. Honestly, the channel strip on the X32 is something I still miss.
5) Another downside: fader speed. Sometimes I have to go back and forth between layers quickly and the motors can’t always keep up. It really bothers me when hardware is slower than I am because it’s one extra thing to pay attention to. This goes for the "fastest" setting the Wing has to offer. Even the X32 faders are faster. The M32 is super snappy, just how it should be.
6) Final gripe: custom colors. Why, why, why are there like 15 different kinds of blue, and almost nothing else? All the colors on the X32 were easily distinguishable. On the Wing, my team and I found ourselves strategically planning out how many clearly identifiable color groups we could realistically use. SMH. Also, I preferred the colored displays on the X32, even though the small colored LEDs in the Wing are alright.
Appreciate it Rick! And yeah I definitely get what you mean, and totally agree on the 3, 4, 5, 6 here. The colors could easily be better haha!
I thought the 12 faders on bank 1 would be cumbersome, but so far it hasn't been an issue. I'm sure extra motorized faders would add a decent amount to the price. One thing I just figured out about the channel strip area on the top right is that the meter is post fader, so now I use it to compare pre and post levels for a selected channel. It's pretty cool, but doesn't justify that console real estate. I would like to see more on screen in versus out levels like the X32/M32 has. We also use the house console to mix our stream. I have busses that mirror our DCAs and are fed post fader. I can then add bus compression and some nice emulated EQ to the stream mix - I actually use the bus compressed vocal steram bus to feed our front fill speakers. Mixing stream in the house is far from ideal but it has worked pretty well so far - we are moving to a separate stream mix console so we can make the house mix more accessible to volunteers - currently there are only two of us who are not intimidated by the house and stream mix combo. The biggest complaint I have is more about Music Tribe than the Wing - they messed up their message board area so badly that folks moved away into a Facebook group, which I hate. I would love to be able to post on the Behringer message boards and be confident that folks on the dev team would see some of my suggestions.
Yeah love that stream/house mix setup! We're currently testing out a stream mix setup with the WING. I'm liking the results so far, but there are still some elements that I need to dial in. And yeah, I'm in a couple FB groups for the WING and at least there's a good bit of info you can find in those groups.
12 verses 16 fader layout - From a block of channel layout it makes sense for 12 Faders. Now you can match blocks of faders more critically by group. The 2 larger groups would be vocals and drums. Fully micing drums in a single block of 12 verses 16 lines up more common usage.
How often does one use more than 12 individual mics?
With that taken care of, one can now drop the remaining sources into the last 2 layers (blocks).
This method shrinks the board size view, if you will. This is is similar in how we use to train team members on large analog consoles usage, back in the day.
Make the board seam smaller.
Solid way to approach it!
Nice video Zach! Very much agree that the upper & mid/right quadrant of the mixer is wasted space. As with most modern digital consoles they were trying to be the best of both LIVE and DAW worlds. But even with that.. that UPPER right panel just seems to be a restatement of things elsewhere.. and I'd MUCH rather look at the bigger touch screen than that little one up there. Still trying to look for a video that show THAT area of the WING being utilized REAL WELL.
Yeah let me know when you find that video! 😂
Solid Review!!
Thanks 👊🏼
One thing that I would find myself not using is the talkback section. That is, if I plan on thinking about using Wing as an audio interface. I would find myself using DSP processing with EQ and compression when going out from one track in the DAW and then print the processed signal back into the DAW before I export the tracks into a single audio file.
Yeah, glad they included the talkback for live mixing scenarios though 🙌🏼
@@ZachBrownMedia That's one of the use case I do not care for. To me that would be a waste of space.
Earned a sub.+like! Thank you!
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
i'm interested in seeing the Wing vs x32 for a live stream mix.
I’ve just recently started using the WING for our livestream mix. Fine tuning that and might work on a video once I feel like I have something worth sharing 👊🏼👊🏼
I just bought a new Wing so I can learn how to use a digital mixing station. I am very new to digital mixing as I was working on an analog mixer before my church bought a Behringer X32. (a story for another time). I am preparing to teach myself how to use and navigate myself around this board. So far I love it, being a newbie of newbies. I truly appreciate all the videos that you guys put out because they are a great help. Thank you so much.
This is quite a jumping-off point to dive into digital mixing, lol. The WING doesn't work quite the same as pretty much any other digital mixer on the market. The workflow, routing, and general approach to sources/channels/outputs is not reflective of any other mixer I know of. So if you do have to mix on a different board at some point, be aware you'll have a bit of a re-learning curve there.
That said, I don't think you've chosen a bad starting point, just an unusual one. This seems like a great board and a great investment for any church. And, for me at least, I have WAY more fun with digital mixing than with analog!
Appreciate the feedback Alvin! Enjoy the WING.
Yeah, I know for me I don't want to mix on anything else other than the WING now 🤷♂️ Sounds like a great idea to grab one for personal use and then have it for any other gigs 🤔
Thanks!
👊🏼👊🏼
Did you make a video about using the wing for livestream
Not directly, but I recently did a live stream where I demonstrated our LS Mix through the WING: ua-cam.com/users/livek8mNgGfXkZo
We have a x33 and are looking to upgrade due to needing additional channels. I like the wing but notice it has only 48 channels, probaley need to buy another stage box. Thoughts?
Yeah I thought the same thing at first! But it actually a 48 STEREO channel board. So each of those channels can be stereo. So if you run a lot of things stereo that will save you space.
Vs on the x32 if you want to run stereo you have to use two separate channels for left and right
You would definitely need to add more Stage boxes. The great thing is that the board allows for 3 AES50 connections. Not sure how daisy chaining off the Stage boxes would work with this board, curious to find out. They say that with all of the IO’s of the Wing it’s pretty close to 400.
I would love to see this in action.
Very well done! You are a great communicator! Keep up the good work!
Appreciate it, Ben! Thanks for the kind words
Solid real world review!
Appreciate it 🙌🏼
48 channels x 4...that is why. With full customization it is not a limitation or complaint at all for me.
Can you do a comparison to the studiolive 32 or 64s
Haven't used the StudioLive boards in a minute! Only have experience with the older line.. but I'll tell you after the WING, I wouldn't want to go back!
Have you done any pro recordings with it?
What do you mean pro? I’ve only used it at my church
does the wing have precision limiter?
Yes! We use it on our Live-Stream Mix
10:19 I don’t see how that could be the case. When you’re playing something back from your DAW, since there’s no analog to digital conversion or any other kind of processing happening, how would the console affect the sound? As far as I know, it really shouldn’t - since a digital console fundamentally sounds transparent (just like a DAW will). It’s not like it applies some kind of "character" to every individual signal that it handles.
I’ve mixed on a Wing only once so far, but my church just got one and I spent the entire day setting it up, planning how to use the busses available (16 stereo busses are awesome, but when youre used to mixing in a DAW, they get used up REAL fast :D) and so on. Like you, I don’t see myself using the two sections to the right of the touch screen. I know Behringer touted that section as something that would allow two people to work on the board simultaneously... but in what universe does that ever happen? Not the one that I live in anyway.
Yeah I see what you mean about the board not effecting the sound. Though, I could be wrong, but I think it has something to do with the Preamps giving more clarity to the audio signal being sent to the PA. The preamps from the WING are definitely better than the preamps in the X32
@@ZachBrownMedia @Zach Brown Ok, so just for claritiy’s sake: if we’re talking about preamps, that would have to be mic preamps (which are technically better in the Wing - not sure I could tell the difference tho). The outputs of the Wing might in fact be better... 🤔Haven’t done any testing or looked up tests from other people. But generally both the X23’s as well as Wing’s outputs should have a linear frequency response in the audible range. Anything else would be pretty weird. It’s possible that the X32/S32/... outputs have more distortion, but like I said, I haven’t seen any measurements. I have noticed though that the X32, even with the master muted, produces more noise than my church’s old analog mixer did. That’s unfortunate, but not a huge deal. What kind of stagebox are you guys running btw? And do you use the Wing’s physical outputs for normal operation?
I actually think your explanation might be on point :D With a volunteer team, I can see how a mix might devolve over time so that it’s helpful to start from scratch. I like to do that at least once a year for that very reason. =)
X 32 great place to start. ….but watch dave rat tear it and Midas m32 apart two different machines….can’t speak to wing
Dave rat?
The fact that a church can afford this kind of equipment when there are starving people in the world (indeed, in your country/state/city) is really worrying.
I think the same judgment could be made toward anyone who owns an iPhone or a $100 pair of shoes. This is also a fraction of what the church gives towards mission/outreach/etc.. so without knowing anything else about the church I don't think it's fair to make such a judgment with so little information.
@@ZachBrownMedia
"I think the same judgment could be made toward anyone who owns an iPhone or a $100 pair of shoes."
No it couldn't. Generally, people aren't asking other people for money to buy their goods.
"This is also a fraction of what the church gives towards mission/outreach/etc"
It may be, but wouldn't it be better to give it all?
"so without knowing anything else about the church I don't think it's fair to make such a judgment with so little information"
You're parading your expensive, studio-grade audio equipment on UA-cam. So, yes, yes I can. I've wandered around America and seen the churches (especially in in CA) where beautiful, pristine "houses of charity" are little more than vulgar displays of wealth... In the heart of communities in crisis, no less 🤦♂
You need to have a massive rethink, my friend.
This board for what it does, is one of the least expensive items in a sound system. 6k for a pair of self powered QSC
tops with 10’s alone. Some mega churches have a dozen of these speakers.