30 years in trade 15 years, my own garage, total nightmare dealing with customers even stuff you have nothing to do with marks and shawdow dents in cars etc and always looking stuff for nothing felt like the chicken regularly
My warranty for competition engines says........"30 seconds or 30 yards, which ever comes first, and only if I have installed the unit", because almost all engine failures are due to incorrect installation and plumbing.
The issue with your competitors is that they need to keep any issues quiet to ensure they get work. Honesty today is virtually unique. You are spot on showing "warts and all". We are not stupid as customers.
Great discussion all of us in the repair industry have to deal with customers who what something for nothing,You have to stand up to them with well written return policy’s
There is something addictive about your channel. Maybe it is the combination of repairing motors and the interaction between Issac and Lee. Can't wait for it every second day.
My other half used to work for a major electrical retailer and someone bought a TV from them then put in a claim with ebay because it did not come with an aerial and ebay refunded their money, totally ridiculous.
Perhaps the customer doesn’t want to bring the item back, because they have already fitted the part and their pals at the pub are experts about all things and are advising them to get a full refund...blah, blah, blah.
I hope you have it in print that any technical problems can only be dealt with on return of the engine for your attention. My experience of running a small business is that people often pick fault without any of the necessary knowledge of what has actually gone wrong(if anything), and it's always amazed me how many folk think they can just have things without paying for them. I think they must think we're idiots. You do your best, treat them with the utmost respect, and then they sh-t on you at the drop of a hat...go figure...
Agree. Such persons tend to adhere to the "Law of Logical Argument" - which is defined as: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talling about.
Well if a person can't show part's or receipt, then there was no transaction, if after they provide the proof and you still don't fix it there are procedure, thanks for sharing, all the best
Two observations on different tracks: 1. Explain immediately to the customer that the Law (ie what we the people, have agreed is the way it works) is that repairer MUST be given the opportunity to rectify as the 1st step. 2. To dispel the notion that Barum have a lot of warranties, state how many valid claims you have had vs how many jobs go through the business.
I see your point with the chicken example but in practice the big supermarket would refund without return. Mostly because they don't want rotten goods in the shop and want your continuing business. One £5 chicken in an annual spend of several thousand is 'chicken feed'. You're right though - anything solid the retailer would expect it back before exchange or refund.
Even if something you did caused a problem. Two things really, one you have to have the opportunity to fix it as you say, but you need to know what happened in order to avoid it happening again. And even that supposes its a real problem, or one or your creation. Might even be defective parts as you mentioned. One of the problems legitamate businesses have, is that there are also a lot of rogues out there, that kind of squirrels the pitch for everyone. I had a friend in the motor trade and some of the stories he could tell would make your hair curl.
To many Karen's. They are everywhere. Friend had a piza shop. People would get a pizza and bring it back after they had eaten three quarters of it. Like that every where.
I can't believe some petty ar$eole called out your honesty coz you didn't post a video on the day you mentioned!, like your sitting around nothing better to do? Clearly no idea of running a engine building business and we are lucky to get the vids on the regular, no complaints from me, carry on as you do chaps
We had a Ford Probe years ago. We took it to a repair shop chain for a tie rod end if memory serves. When we got it back the steering wheel was off center, so they pulled the steering wheel off straightened it up, this screwed up the clock spring. They expected me to bring the car back when they clearly didn't know what they were doing for another round. It can be difficult to trust the garage that didn't know what they were doing in the first place. Hope you can see it from the customers point of view. BTW that chain is out of business. Every coin has two sides.
I've never seen you use a paint pen on fasteners when you finish torque them, could this be one way to determine if a customer has opened an engine and then filed a warranty claim after they mess something up? An engine dyno would be really handy for your shop, a decent extra offering so that you can run the engines in under a small load. An oil or water brake would probably be enough, don't even fit sensors to calculate the power.
This would verify if injectors are acting up. I've always worried when they take away bits and are expected to know how to properly re-assemble an engine. Then, when something goes wrong (pulling threads because they didn't confirm the hole was clean) and assume the engineering shop is at fault. I recall the idiot who removed a wet bolt from the crank-to-flywheel and had a moan about how it poured oil. Well, no wonder! Some people truly shouldn't be allowed to pump petrol ;-)
Maybe your bill of works or invoice should include the wording that defines the legal aspect of retail law about having to be given the opportunity to put the failed job right before going down the refund route. Might be worth marking components prior to assembly, in my book the word customer translates to pain in the back, so you have bad customers and great clients
Cheers Lee/Isaac. You could future proof the Business by being able to run the Petrol and Diesel Engines up, it validates your work and confirms Temperature and Oil Pressure. What the customers do after that is their problem. I’ve never seen the point in Building up Engines and not seeing them run.
Virtually impossible with today's electronics..... you would basically need the car in the workshop to get it to run.... and that's not what they do.... if you only did a few different types of engines it might be possible, but with every job being a different engine it's impossible
Had a dodgey chicken, from a supermarket once I rang them and they said to dispose of the chicken and bring in just the wrapper, they don't actually want a rotten chicken in the shop.
Purchased a new monitor for the Grandson arrived with a screen that was showing damaged Free return of course but no refund yet as they need to see the damage before they issue a refund Probably two weeks before any money will be refunded
I discovered many years ago that the behaviour you are describing was becoming more common........as a consequence we no longer do any work for Kawasaki or their European subsidiaries.!
re warranty - do you make sure all the rings are in ? one shop i did some bits and pieces for - mechanic was working on several engines gets them all assembled - boss comes along why are there a set of rings (1 top 1 inter and oil scraper) on the bench? ooops.
I think some "punters" know what game theyre gunna play even before they have sent you the engine at the start........the professional rogue cuatomer just wanting money off
Any business of sort that has been around for a long time materials can make or brake you and yes it's a mine field. The most annoying thing is when a company has a good reliable product, but feel they need to reinvent the wheel. Good to see you have the usual Karen's, like the rest of us business owners. Loads of these walking land mines out there.
Maby it turns out you sold him a turkey!. Do not refund if you can't physically inspect your work then you can't refund unless it's something obvious that can be shown in photos because what needs to be kept in mind is returning engines is still expensive but I should assume you would pay the postage if at fault. Just a mine field sometimes you need to dig in.
I commented that the Subaru was an unfixable money pit in the first video where he excitedly announced he was " having it" It is , 1 year later , an unfixable money pit . Apparently 😢
I don't believe u actually torqued down the cam cap bolts to a specific torque. You were chatting away tightening them down by hand to what u think is specific tightness. 🤔🤔
Surely if you have any mechanical knowledge you would see that he has nipped them up and then will be torquing them later. Typical keyboard mechanics’s think they know it all W⚓️s !!
We don’t get to see every process and every nut being tightened on these UA-cam clips. We are seeing the highlights of an engine being built, just as we don’t get to the guys eating their lunch, or making a cup of tea during their breaks, or them unlocking the factory door every morning.
to be fair most of the "come back vids" have been on the same three or four persistent ones that were either very odd faults, attempted scams by the client or very stupid and unreasonable customers,
i work in a small garage up in Scotland and it is always a hit or a miss with modern crap that has been rebuilt that it works or not case in point is a nissan extrail that i fitted a rebuilt turbo 2 and it has failed but the company that built the turbo wont accept liabilty for it when the failure is obviouse its them not all companies are like that i am not saying they are but modern junk is not refurb matterial 1 unless u now what u are doing and 2 its not past the point of no redemtion and athe biggest majority of big companes cant fix jack shit as they dont now how 2
The 'negative elements' discussed within this You Tube channel serve as click bait which in turn helps to fuel the mysterious and somewhat hungry 'You Tube algorithm'.
Pretty hard to justify "warranty" issues given there are so many exturnal variables and or engines/parts/components are being raced and or used beyond OEM specifications.
And what about incompetent tuners? The ones who don't understand why they have to keep adding fuel to compensate for a dodgy PCV. I'd insist all the ancillary bits were new. Don't bother complaining if the bores are glazed from overfueling.
The cylinder head guy, from here on in I would ignore him, you’ve asked for the head back in writing so that’s it, till I see the head I would ignore him.
just keep being honest, we know u are going to have comebacks and complaints, thats the Keren world we live in today. id beat he just wants his money back on the heads to spend it somewhere else because there isn't anything wrong with the heads. sending them back is the second step after telling u guys there is a problem.
Did I just see Isaac wearing Trainers in an Engine workshop where everyone should have STEEL TOE CAPS. Come on Boys, let's not loose any toes and you know, Insurance will not pay out for accidents with wrong footwear. Just a bad habit as well. Foot inspection NEXT VIDEO, please.
Rant mode on. Here is something you probably haven't thought of. You talk about the very few warranty claims (admire your honesty), but and it's a big but, you video the same engines over a good few weeks. Companies that farm the engineering side out dont take as long as you guys to build an engine., I would be surprised from your videos if you complete 2 engines per month (they appear for weeks with no apparent progress). Then you get comebacks so it appears as though it is a high %. Hopefully that's not the case but that's the impression I get and if I get it others will too. To be honest I unsubscribed from the channel as it's boring, going over the same thing week in week out (it keeps appearing in my feed so i watch the odd one).There are other channels that show jobs from start to finish in more detail, maybe focus in quality of vids and not qty (look at grace engine developments as an example). You always talk about ordering bits in for the cossies and you get loads in, why don't you have the various parts in stock if they are popular for you to rebuild, it doesn't make sense.
"You always talk about ordering bits in for the cossies and you get loads in, why don't you have the various parts in stock if they are popular for you to rebuild, it doesn't make sense.' Which parts should they hold in stock? How many of each? Holding parts in stock is a costly overhead, unless you are rotating your stock of parts every month.
Luckily for you, you unsubbed so you could have probably saved yourself the effort of ranting. The guy said its a very small percentage that get warranty claims, just take his word for it and go and watch something else.
@@jaytc2003 yea i read it, you said it appears that way, i said the guy that owns the shop says otherwise. Would probably take his word for it seeing he owns the place and is pretty open and transparent.
Your comment relating to holding stock has been virtually eliminated by the 'bean counters' - as 'they' will tell you that holding stock costs money. My local Ford dealer - holds virtually no spare parts stock for a car that is circa 4 years old. All spare parts orders are souced directly from the 'central' Ford spare parts warehouse - if the parts are still available.
If a customer moves heaven and earth not to return a “faulty” part then you can bet your bottom dollar that they are taking the piss
they're probably too busy claiming for "lost" mobile phones...
Listen boy's, it's the honesty that alot off us appreciate for a change, keep doing what your doing
It's the age old debate; which came first the Chicken or the Complaint.
30 years in trade 15 years, my own garage, total nightmare dealing with customers even stuff you have nothing to do with marks and shawdow dents in cars etc and always looking stuff for nothing felt like the chicken regularly
Lee……”Shall we start with a negative ?”
(John goes up in a puff of smoke next door) 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
One of my old bosses had a sign up and it said no receipt tail light warranty. When your tail lights disappear out of my sight warranty is over.
My warranty for competition engines says........"30 seconds or 30 yards, which ever comes first, and only if I have installed the unit", because almost all engine failures are due to incorrect installation and plumbing.
6 feet or 6 seconds
@@davyhill23 It would seem then that I give an extended warranty, maybe I should charge extra for that...!
The issue with your competitors is that they need to keep any issues quiet to ensure they get work. Honesty today is virtually unique. You are spot on showing "warts and all". We are not stupid as customers.
Love the chicken analogy 🤣
No doubt, they'd have devoured the entire chicken, then want money back, deciding it might have been slightly more tender.
Any things possible nowadays 😂
ua-cam.com/users/shorts4ZVPdBmXEn4?si=3gKdzsOoyO4t_B5M
Great discussion all of us in the repair industry have to deal with customers who what something for nothing,You have to stand up to them with well written return policy’s
There is something addictive about your channel. Maybe it is the combination of repairing motors and the interaction between Issac and Lee. Can't wait for it every second day.
When the guy sent the blocked exhaust back, you were completely baffled
It's called real life. Things don't always go right. I love how you, snowball engineering and welderfaber show when things go wrong
Just put it in your terms and conditions. Wiffling endlessly on..dull..
My other half used to work for a major electrical retailer and someone bought a TV from them then put in a claim with ebay because it did not come with an aerial and ebay refunded their money, totally ridiculous.
Perhaps the customer doesn’t want to bring the item back, because they have already fitted the part and their pals at the pub are experts about all things and are advising them to get a full refund...blah, blah, blah.
Especially after a few pints makes an expert.
@@jamesplotkin4674 Agree, there is a exponential relationship between degree of expertise and pints consumed.
I hope you have it in print that any technical problems can only be dealt with on return of the engine for your attention. My experience of running a small business is that people often pick fault without any of the necessary knowledge of what has actually gone wrong(if anything), and it's always amazed me how many folk think they can just have things without paying for them. I think they must think we're idiots. You do your best, treat them with the utmost respect, and then they sh-t on you at the drop of a hat...go figure...
Agree. Such persons tend to adhere to the "Law of Logical Argument" - which is defined as: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talling about.
Well if a person can't show part's or receipt, then there was no transaction, if after they provide the proof and you still don't fix it there are procedure, thanks for sharing, all the best
Two observations on different tracks:
1. Explain immediately to the customer that the Law (ie what we the people, have agreed is the way it works) is that repairer MUST be given the opportunity to rectify as the 1st step.
2. To dispel the notion that Barum have a lot of warranties, state how many valid claims you have had vs how many jobs go through the business.
You know what's going to happen now.
Your start getting part cooked chickens turning up with a warranty claim 🤣🤣 have a good weekend.
I see your point with the chicken example but in practice the big supermarket would refund without return. Mostly because they don't want rotten goods in the shop and want your continuing business.
One £5 chicken in an annual spend of several thousand is 'chicken feed'.
You're right though - anything solid the retailer would expect it back before exchange or refund.
Have a rebound as Barum Chickens😂 Great video.
Some people can't help trying it on
Rolling and UNMUTED😂😂😂
I wouldn’t expect a engine builder to refund me or help to resolve a problem until they had the item returned for inspection
World famous in Barnstaple 🤣
Is your 'right to rectify policy" given to the customer in writing as is the customer asked to sign that they have read it?
Even if something you did caused a problem. Two things really, one you have to have the opportunity to fix it as you say, but you need to know what happened in order to avoid it happening again. And even that supposes its a real problem, or one or your creation. Might even be defective parts as you mentioned. One of the problems legitamate businesses have, is that there are also a lot of rogues out there, that kind of squirrels the pitch for everyone. I had a friend in the motor trade and some of the stories he could tell would make your hair curl.
was that the cams torqued down,or just guessed the torque?
I did once have to return a bag of sprouts as they were contaminated with diesel and the store manager didn't even have the decency to speak to us
To many Karen's. They are everywhere. Friend had a piza shop. People would get a pizza and bring it back after they had eaten three quarters of it. Like that every where.
I can't believe some petty ar$eole called out your honesty coz you didn't post a video on the day you mentioned!, like your sitting around nothing better to do? Clearly no idea of running a engine building business and we are lucky to get the vids on the regular, no complaints from me, carry on as you do chaps
We had a Ford Probe years ago. We took it to a repair shop chain for a tie rod end if memory serves. When we got it back the steering wheel was off center, so they pulled the steering wheel off straightened it up, this screwed up the clock spring. They expected me to bring the car back when they clearly didn't know what they were doing for another round. It can be difficult to trust the garage that didn't know what they were doing in the first place. Hope you can see it from the customers point of view. BTW that chain is out of business. Every coin has two sides.
I've never seen you use a paint pen on fasteners when you finish torque them, could this be one way to determine if a customer has opened an engine and then filed a warranty claim after they mess something up? An engine dyno would be really handy for your shop, a decent extra offering so that you can run the engines in under a small load. An oil or water brake would probably be enough, don't even fit sensors to calculate the power.
This would verify if injectors are acting up. I've always worried when they take away bits and are expected to know how to properly re-assemble an engine. Then, when something goes wrong (pulling threads because they didn't confirm the hole was clean) and assume the engineering shop is at fault. I recall the idiot who removed a wet bolt from the crank-to-flywheel and had a moan about how it poured oil. Well, no wonder! Some people truly shouldn't be allowed to pump petrol ;-)
Maybe your bill of works or invoice should include the wording that defines the legal aspect of retail law about having to be given the opportunity to put the failed job right before going down the refund route.
Might be worth marking components prior to assembly, in my book the word customer translates to pain in the back, so you have bad customers and great clients
Cheers Lee/Isaac. You could future proof the Business by being able to run the Petrol and Diesel Engines up, it validates your work and confirms Temperature and Oil Pressure. What the customers do after that is their problem. I’ve never seen the point in Building up Engines and not seeing them run.
Virtually impossible with today's electronics..... you would basically need the car in the workshop to get it to run.... and that's not what they do.... if you only did a few different types of engines it might be possible, but with every job being a different engine it's impossible
Worked with someone who ordered a meal, ate three quarters of it and then complained to get it taken off the bill….
When is the T shirt coming out. Barum Engines. We want our chicken back.
Had a dodgey chicken, from a supermarket once I rang them and they said to dispose of the chicken and bring in just the wrapper, they don't actually want a rotten chicken in the shop.
Purchased a new monitor for the Grandson arrived with a screen that was showing damaged Free return of course but no refund yet as they need to see the damage before they issue a refund Probably two weeks before any money will be refunded
Sees EJ, smells coolant immediately.
I discovered many years ago that the behaviour you are describing was becoming more common........as a consequence we no longer do any work for Kawasaki or their European subsidiaries.!
Do you guys Magnaflux steel cylinder heads and blocks before you machine them?.
Magnox duplex
I say this with love... its dawned on me today that they remind of the TV series Creature Comforts... again I am a fan.. not trolling.. :)
More like Wallace and Gromit.
re warranty - do you make sure all the rings are in ? one shop i did some bits and pieces for - mechanic was working on several engines gets them all assembled - boss comes along why are there a set of rings (1 top 1 inter and oil scraper) on the bench? ooops.
i think you need to start making discrete identifier marks on the heads and engines you work on and recording them
I think some "punters" know what game theyre gunna play even before they have sent you the engine at the start........the professional rogue cuatomer just wanting money off
Any business of sort that has been around for a long time materials can make or brake you and yes it's a mine field. The most annoying thing is when a company has a good reliable product, but feel they need to reinvent the wheel. Good to see you have the usual Karen's, like the rest of us business owners. Loads of these walking land mines out there.
It's a bit hard to pull your motor out to return it.I do all my mechanics so I can't blame ha-C k jobs from pretend engineers if I stuff up👍👍👍
Maby it turns out you sold him a turkey!. Do not refund if you can't physically inspect your work then you can't refund unless it's something obvious that can be shown in photos because what needs to be kept in mind is returning engines is still expensive but I should assume you would pay the postage if at fault. Just a mine field sometimes you need to dig in.
Speaking of Subarus, did you ever get yours fixed, Isaac?
I commented that the Subaru was an unfixable money pit in the first video where he excitedly announced he was " having it"
It is , 1 year later , an unfixable money pit .
Apparently 😢
Ì@@AndrewNeilBaird😮😮
I don't believe u actually torqued down the cam cap bolts to a specific torque. You were chatting away tightening them down by hand to what u think is specific tightness. 🤔🤔
elbow torque wrench
Surely if you have any mechanical knowledge you would see that he has nipped them up and then will be torquing them later. Typical keyboard mechanics’s think they know it all W⚓️s !!
You don’t understand how you tube works
We don’t get to see every process and every nut being tightened on these UA-cam clips. We are seeing the highlights of an engine being built, just as we don’t get to the guys eating their lunch, or making a cup of tea during their breaks, or them unlocking the factory door every morning.
@@ChrisWillner-t1fThat was my understanding as well. Pretty standard to snug up in one operation and then torque as a separate operation.
to be fair most of the "come back vids" have been on the same three or four persistent ones that were either very odd faults, attempted scams by the client or very stupid and unreasonable customers,
I gave up one this one. 7 minutes and nothing has been done or really said. Same ole same ole.
Time of the month, dear? Get a fresh rag and move on.
@@jamesplotkin4674 Be 67 next week. All those years been a man. They keep repeating the same shit over and over. I'm tired of it.
i work in a small garage up in Scotland and it is always a hit or a miss with modern crap that has been rebuilt that it works or not case in point is a nissan extrail that i fitted a rebuilt turbo 2 and it has failed but the company that built the turbo wont accept liabilty for it when the failure is obviouse its them not all companies are like that i am not saying they are but modern junk is not refurb matterial 1 unless u now what u are doing and 2 its not past the point of no redemtion and athe biggest majority of big companes cant fix jack shit as they dont now how 2
The 'negative elements' discussed within this You Tube channel serve as click bait which in turn helps to fuel the mysterious and somewhat hungry 'You Tube algorithm'.
Show some figures of returns against non returns. I bet you are getting returns of less than 2%?
Pretty hard to justify "warranty" issues given there are so many exturnal variables and or engines/parts/components are being raced and or used beyond OEM specifications.
And what about incompetent tuners? The ones who don't understand why they have to keep adding fuel to compensate for a dodgy PCV. I'd insist all the ancillary bits were new. Don't bother complaining if the bores are glazed from overfueling.
The cylinder head guy, from here on in I would ignore him, you’ve asked for the head back in writing so that’s it, till I see the head I would ignore him.
The dog and the chicken you boys our like the chicken and customer is the dog
👍
Given the paper trail you have now, this is provable harassment
just keep being honest, we know u are going to have comebacks and complaints, thats the Keren world we live in today. id beat he just wants his money back on the heads to spend it somewhere else because there isn't anything wrong with the heads. sending them back is the second step after telling u guys there is a problem.
Follow me everywhere 😂 Brilliant
Not st austell… 😢
Did I just see Isaac wearing Trainers in an Engine workshop where everyone should have STEEL TOE CAPS. Come on Boys, let's not loose any toes and you know, Insurance will not pay out for accidents with wrong footwear. Just a bad habit as well. Foot inspection NEXT VIDEO, please.
You can get steel capped trainers.
Rant mode on.
Here is something you probably haven't thought of.
You talk about the very few warranty claims (admire your honesty), but and it's a big but, you video the same engines over a good few weeks. Companies that farm the engineering side out dont take as long as you guys to build an engine., I would be surprised from your videos if you complete 2 engines per month (they appear for weeks with no apparent progress). Then you get comebacks so it appears as though it is a high %. Hopefully that's not the case but that's the impression I get and if I get it others will too. To be honest I unsubscribed from the channel as it's boring, going over the same thing week in week out (it keeps appearing in my feed so i watch the odd one).There are other channels that show jobs from start to finish in more detail, maybe focus in quality of vids and not qty (look at grace engine developments as an example).
You always talk about ordering bits in for the cossies and you get loads in, why don't you have the various parts in stock if they are popular for you to rebuild, it doesn't make sense.
"You always talk about ordering bits in for the cossies and you get loads in, why don't you have the various parts in stock if they are popular for you to rebuild, it doesn't make sense.'
Which parts should they hold in stock? How many of each? Holding parts in stock is a costly overhead, unless you are rotating your stock of parts every month.
Luckily for you, you unsubbed so you could have probably saved yourself the effort of ranting.
The guy said its a very small percentage that get warranty claims, just take his word for it and go and watch something else.
@@MrChris106gtiyes small % yet the videos give the impression of about two engines per month going out (read my original post again ) .
@@jaytc2003 yea i read it, you said it appears that way, i said the guy that owns the shop says otherwise. Would probably take his word for it seeing he owns the place and is pretty open and transparent.
Your comment relating to holding stock has been virtually eliminated by the 'bean counters' - as 'they' will tell you that holding stock costs money. My local Ford dealer - holds virtually no spare parts stock for a car that is circa 4 years old. All spare parts orders are souced directly from the 'central' Ford spare parts warehouse - if the parts are still available.
Give myregards to St auzzle, at the bottom of the town opposite travel lodge is nines cafe, corking breakfast in there. Have a good weekend.