The Most Fascinating (and AWFUL) Class in an FPS

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
  • The Spy from Team Fortress 2 has one of the most unique playstyles I've seen in a multiplayer shooter. But he's also kinda... bad? Watch my video.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 826

  • @PretzelYT
    @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +583

    I sincerely apologize for my Spy gameplay in this video. I hope you all can forgive me for missing as many backstabs as I did.
    EDIT: This video seems to be doing pretty well, hello all you new people!
    I should probably start off by saying I'm NOT a UA-camr dedicated to TF2. Though I am a big fan of the game, so it's likely I'll make another video on it down the line. In fact, MY NEXT VIDEO is on TF2. It features me going around some of TF2's maps and talking about why I think they're so special. I hope you all like that one, should be coming out this week, mayyybbeeee early next week.

    • @tommygun4552
      @tommygun4552 2 роки тому +16

      Butterknife or Failstabs are unavoidable, any Spy good or bad will experience them a lot, not every situation would grant you instant kill, anyways you've pointed out some things I have also thought about spy, and the video is done well, I respect that

    • @wha_
      @wha_ 2 роки тому +1

      it's ok ;D

    • @margerald1
      @margerald1 2 роки тому +2

      git gud lol

    • @wha_
      @wha_ 2 роки тому +4

      @@margerald1 >:( that's bulling :trollface:

    • @popcultureprogrammer2171
      @popcultureprogrammer2171 2 роки тому +2

      as a spy main (3500 hours) I suck too, but this video does remind me that I was this bad once. Honestly, if you played any better, people would start to think you were a weeb 😂
      but for real though, the gameplay wasn't too bad and is to be expected for a new spy. Good video

  • @pigy459
    @pigy459 2 роки тому +456

    When playing spy if your opponent has enough time to think “is that a spy?” Then you have been out in the open too long

    • @normalhuman4951
      @normalhuman4951 2 роки тому +27

      Fr i only decloack when im sure Nobody sees me and have found my Prey

    • @royalhydra9790
      @royalhydra9790 2 роки тому +4

      This is why I abuse the cloak and dagger to nab a quick kill and then dive for cover

    • @lisatroiani6119
      @lisatroiani6119 Рік тому +5

      if you’re in a situation like that, it might be a good time to use Acting™️ to make the enemy team not know you’re there. - a y.e.r. spy

    • @This-is-not-K
      @This-is-not-K Рік тому

      @@lisatroiani6119your eternal win?

    • @lisatroiani6119
      @lisatroiani6119 Рік тому +2

      @@This-is-not-K oops, didn’t catch that, thanks for pointing it out lol

  • @Drozos
    @Drozos 2 роки тому +618

    spy is my favourite class, and i think the most important tip is timing.
    you should act when the enemy is distracted, because obviously if someone isn’t doing anything they’ll check their back often and be suspicious. but if they’re in a fight and looking at something very important, thats when you should act. even the best players likely wont just turn around randomly when they’re in an intense fight.
    good video btw

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +107

      Thank you.
      While I did talk about how highly skilled players are pretty good at spy checking, they can't have spies on their mind 100% of the time. That's a good point. Everyone makes mistakes. In that way, I guess the Spy can be effective at higher skill levels. Maybe just not as effective as they were at lower levels where players get distracted by everything lol

    • @emberz3778
      @emberz3778 2 роки тому +19

      @@PretzelYT Yeah I am sad you didn't mention that.
      You yourself even abused this in 8:54 where you backstabbed a distracted pyro.
      And the Cloak n Dagger is made to support that style of picking off an engaged team.
      Spy still can be really good as a pick class of preventing the medic from triggering uber (also surprised this wasn't as emphasised since medic can win games), but yeah even on higher levels, communication can still dampen spy's plan to a certain degree.
      Also yeah, if you want to go for chain stabs... well the big earner exists XD
      And that the other items can really help spy.

    • @aidelai4098
      @aidelai4098 2 роки тому +20

      @@PretzelYT as a Heavy main even in active combat you can still hear the decloak sound even if it's surrounded by other noises you CAN still hear it if you're good enough but that just leaves you with two choices 1. Ignore the spy and die to a backstab or
      2. Kill the spy and get killed by his teammates
      You have to really get good at spy checking if you wanna play Heavy for an extensive amount of time

    • @skurge7685
      @skurge7685 2 роки тому +4

      As a heavy main, while we’re laying down covering fire and pushing are the times we are most vulnerable, we just think about what’s forward.

    • @murkiz7213
      @murkiz7213 2 роки тому

      yes, and after some time you dont even think about when to strike like you dont think when to stab

  • @guybrush20X6
    @guybrush20X6 2 роки тому +959

    I heard somewhere that Spy is shockingly effective at the highest levels of non-highlander play because no-one is expecting anyone to play Spy at that level but with the caveat that you only get to make ONE play as Spy before everyone cottons on and that's time your team is missing a second Scout or Soldier. High risk but it could be the game winning play.

    • @Kaiserboo1871
      @Kaiserboo1871 2 роки тому +111

      That’s when you target the medic.
      It’s the perfect ambush. Spy kills the medic and dies, then the spies teammates launch an Uber offensive and wipe the enemy team.

    • @windhelmguard5295
      @windhelmguard5295 2 роки тому +54

      most effective thing spy can do in high level play is to inform their team mates.
      use the cloak and dagger and just tell your team what's going on as a lot of classes don't even need to be fought when you just know where they are.
      tell your team where the enemy sniper is and they're unlikely to get head shot.
      tell your team where the sentry is and your scouts won't run into them.
      tell your team when the engineer is leaving his sentry alone so they can uber push at the right moment.
      only medic and spy can see enemy health, so relay that info to your team mates, imagine the power of a sniper when he knows whether or not a body shot will kill.
      you see the enemy scout taking a flank route? don't try to fight him, just tell your team where he's coming from.
      tell them when you see enemy heavy spin his minigun down.

    • @technoturnovers7072
      @technoturnovers7072 2 роки тому +52

      In highlander, the spy isn't really able to make his own picks; instead, he acts as an *actual scout* at the start of the round, checking out people's loadouts and calling when the demoman should set off his stickytrap or when the team should push or whatever, and he makes his own picks in coordination with his team once a push has everyone distracted and not watching their backs.

    • @windhelmguard5295
      @windhelmguard5295 2 роки тому +14

      @@technoturnovers7072 exactly. Even if the only damage spy does is to put a zapper on a sentry at the right time, not even by destroying it but by just disabling it when his team pushes, spy with communication is busted.

    • @angrydragonslayer
      @angrydragonslayer 2 роки тому +8

      @@windhelmguard5295 i remember seeing a single revolver shot deciding the first team fight
      Guy shot the medic and did ~20 damage which made him pop and focus backwards.... Right before his pocket solly got HS'd

  • @davidjones8047
    @davidjones8047 2 роки тому +1723

    I feel like with most classes, there’s a pretty linear curve between skill of the enemy and how difficult it is to play against them. But with spy it’s basically a vertical line. Once the enemy player is above a certain threshold of skill, you’re pretty much screwed

    • @realdragon
      @realdragon 2 роки тому +148

      Most of my spy gemplay it's getting 1 kill and dying instantly (sometimes I can't even get kills). It really depends how good is enemy team because they can make your life living hell. Despite spy being my most played class I'm really weak compared to other classes

    • @georgecantu856
      @georgecantu856 2 роки тому +48

      If the player is too good to kill with a backstab, play gun spy with your team. Revolver does like 30+damage close to mid range

    • @Lynxdeer
      @Lynxdeer 2 роки тому +12

      unless you can trickstab well

    • @DrHappy-hk4hl
      @DrHappy-hk4hl 2 роки тому +68

      @@Lynxdeer Good players don't fall for them very often

    • @malif1279
      @malif1279 2 роки тому +71

      Top level highlander spy players are quite interesting to watch though, sometimes there's matches where the spy manages to get a load of important picks somehow without dying instantly after & it's always hype to see

  • @mrhappycoolable
    @mrhappycoolable 2 роки тому +300

    also valve added spawn wallhacks - you can now see your team mates (and enemy spies) through walls as you spawn
    -team mates behind your spawn/not moving/in weird spots
    -team mates that spontaneously appear (enemy spies that were invisible, then drop their invisibility)
    -team mates that have your name (disguised as you)
    -or multiple team mates with the same name (at least one of them is a spy)
    you can track through walls and immediately know where they are when you spawn
    I wish this massive detriment to spy was removed

    • @matheusmartinhogalvani1716
      @matheusmartinhogalvani1716 2 роки тому +44

      not exatly removed, but removing the wallhack near the spawn and making it last 1 second or something like that just to you know where your team is, a newbie do not always know where the fight is happening

    • @1x1boop28
      @1x1boop28 2 роки тому +2

      Just disguise as a teammate and they can't see you and if they do they think you are something else

    • @ekyanso4253
      @ekyanso4253 2 роки тому +15

      Let's remove an important tool to get your bearings after respawning so the spy will get his ass handed to him ten seconds later than usual

    • @samoli11
      @samoli11 2 роки тому +57

      @@ekyanso4253 We went 10 years without spawn wallhacks before this bro. I think we'll survive.

    • @mrhappycoolable
      @mrhappycoolable 2 роки тому +13

      @@1x1boop28 you can't be disguised as team mates at all times. The spawn wallhacks have infinite range, so you can spawn and scan the whole map to find any disguised spies

  • @DelphanGruss
    @DelphanGruss 2 роки тому +51

    Been playing Spy since release, and it's been such a ridiculous change from the early days.
    Early-day Spy could literally decloak behind enemies whose necks he was breathing down and not be noticed - I've got old videos doing just that. These days if you decloak in the same post-code as an enemy who isn't actively shooting, you're stuffed.
    And that's a big part of it honestly; old spy used to be able to pick off enemies returning to the front lines - but these days he thrives mostly in furious firefights where he's pouncing on actively distracted enemies before vanishing.

  • @k4n4st4
    @k4n4st4 2 роки тому +627

    I think giving the spy more acting tools like reload animations or scoping with a sniper disguise would make him much fun.
    I mean it would still be a bad class but those little moments of dopamine you mentioned when you actually fool someone would be much more common and the class itself would be more enjoyable over all imo

    • @no-yi4zf
      @no-yi4zf 2 роки тому +108

      You actually can fake a reload as Spy
      Shoot your revolver once, make sure your disguise is holding anything that can reload, reload your revolver and that's it.
      It's a pretty useful tool to fool enemies.

    • @realdragon
      @realdragon 2 роки тому +31

      @@no-yi4zf You don't need to shoot, you can just press reloading button

    • @korayven9255
      @korayven9255 2 роки тому +77

      First, they should fix all of the existing visual issues with Spy's disguises: missing/bugged weapons, missing/bugged cosmetics, missing feet, missing _entire heads._

    • @evdestroy4121
      @evdestroy4121 2 роки тому +9

      He does have reloading animations, press R

    • @k4n4st4
      @k4n4st4 2 роки тому +11

      @@evdestroy4121 yeah but those are broken and non intentional. Plus only work one time, so the demo for example would reload just one pipe with an animation that cuts mid-way. It still can trick people but a proper and more convincing animation mechanic would be that much more fun.

  • @uncledeath2246
    @uncledeath2246 2 роки тому +184

    This is an issue not always talked about in most competitive (or even pve games):
    Skill floors grow over time. The barrier of entry to playing with the average player increases as the community grows.
    It's one thing playing Quake with people who also just picked up the game on release last century; it's another deal to try and get into a server full of people who played 20 years or more at this point.
    The same applies to TF2. Over time and as the community grew, nearly everyone barring new players has got much better at the game. From knowing technical details about mechanics to ingraining automatisms about turning your back every half a second into your brain or learning there's no counterplay to randomly shooting all allies, Spy has way fewer chances against the average player now than he did back in 2007.
    The bad part about this is that it doesn't only alienate people who don't main spy, it also bleeds over into preventing new people from getting into the game. If you don't have a leveled playing field to learn and develop, and you dont set your mind to torture yourself overcoming the horrible grind of playing against people magnitudes better than you, you just wont play.
    There's no easy solution to this, unfortunately. Bots can only help out so much, and you can't always find pub games full of Fernando.Gonzales2007's to learn the basics or practice. And I don't think the devs would know either if they tried helping out...

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +23

      Beautifully said.
      I wonder if the bot crisis has affected new players. Because more experienced players, they were either never playing on casual servers or just moved to community servers once it got too bad there. But newer players won't know to check community servers. So they'll just launch into casual and get stomped on by bots.

    • @man-made-man
      @man-made-man 2 роки тому +3

      2fort and casual exist

    • @celestialowl8865
      @celestialowl8865 2 роки тому +2

      See it's sorta weird to me because in my eyes the experience today isn't so different from when I joined a million years ago. I remember younger me getting absolutely stomped even back when the game was fresh and new by people with experience in other games, and working through the pain of dying almost instantly always until I was a significantly better player. This part of the experience has always been part of tf2 to me, and something I've both warned and excitedly told friends new to the game about. If struggling to be good as you approach the skill ceiling is something that turns you off tf2, I don't really know how you ever could have gotten into tf2 in the first place, even back then.

  • @golasbrandes
    @golasbrandes 2 роки тому +132

    the best use for spy in comp is to gather information for his team. backstabs are reserved for the most important classes, like medic, demo and sniper, because in a comp environment a backstab will mostly end with the spy dying

    • @masterofthecontinuum
      @masterofthecontinuum 2 роки тому +21

      This is why I think having spy watches give enemies an outline your team can see would improve him a lot. Imagine if while invisible, all nearby enemies had the "friendly intel carrier" outline, even showing their color coded health level to your teammates. Spy would be an amazing asset and allow him to do one of his jobs even better.

    • @puwo9607
      @puwo9607 Рік тому

      @@masterofthecontinuum I think this will just make cheaters more free but also make false votekicks even more common

  • @masterofthecontinuum
    @masterofthecontinuum 2 роки тому +57

    Spy should be able to reveal enemies for his team when he's near them, allowing him to feed his team information on enemy movements more easily.

    • @riffmond
      @riffmond 2 роки тому +18

      this is actually a super underrated idea i want to make a plugin that does this

    • @psykomancer4420
      @psykomancer4420 2 роки тому +1

      Yo my guy you're onto something.

    • @albertoiii1205
      @albertoiii1205 2 роки тому +4

      Genuinely a good idea. It wouldnt be super overpowered since it achieves the same thing as team voice chat announcements but also makes it so the enemy team is more likely to focus on your team's assault than to look for you in their midst.

    • @hayond656
      @hayond656 Рік тому +3

      Woah an actually cool Idea that makes spy an actual spy?? I want this in the game

    • @o-dreng8778
      @o-dreng8778 10 місяців тому +1

      The solemn soy,?

  • @ammazer1229
    @ammazer1229 2 роки тому +20

    In Highlander one of spy's best uses is a spy. Telling your team what the enemy team is doing. Knowing that the enemy is starting a push or retreating is very useful.

  • @inyourcloset1814
    @inyourcloset1814 2 роки тому +89

    I feel like allowing disguised spies to taunt could really increase the belivability of the disguises of the class, at least for a little while.

    • @Appletank8
      @Appletank8 2 роки тому +2

      imagine pretending to be a friendly while doing a kill taunt.

    • @inyourcloset1814
      @inyourcloset1814 2 роки тому +13

      @@Appletank8 LOL, like doing the pootis pow on a "teamate" (enemy) but then they suddenly die.

    • @NoSkill_fr
      @NoSkill_fr Рік тому +2

      Yeah and maybe disguising as building like imagine your low health and a dispenser and u go to it only to be backstabbed

  • @PinkTopHat
    @PinkTopHat 2 роки тому +37

    As a spy main... Kinda, I'm bad, I really get when spy shines, my problem is actually finding those moments myself. You really need to get into peoples brains and think "What is that heavy focused on right now and would he be thinking about turning around?" My best advice is pay extremem attention to noise sources, a shooting heavy can't hear spies decloack very well.

  • @ThatBeePerson
    @ThatBeePerson 2 роки тому +26

    I think the fact I was able to get enough footage in 2 games to be able to sync my deaths to the song "mr blue sky" and STILL have leftover footage I couldn't fit into the video really shows just how damn hard spy is

  • @sokolov49
    @sokolov49 2 роки тому +58

    Comparing the 2007 TF2 to 2022 TF2, there is too many wide areas on latest maps compared to Dustbowl for example, a Spy could easily just go behind the advancing team and blend in because the map's pretty narrow and that many of the players just played casually.

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +16

      That's interesting, I usually consider maps like 2fort and Dustbowl to be harder as spy. There's less room to walk around people and you bump into them a lot more.
      But it also does kinda funnel them into smaller spaces, so everyone blends together a little bit more.
      Thanks for your perspective, haven't really thought of it that way before.

    • @_mono_01
      @_mono_01 2 місяці тому

      interesting, from my experience spy sucks on chokey maps (i.e. dustbowl)

    • @sokolov49
      @sokolov49 2 місяці тому +1

      @@_mono_01 because the average skill level of a tf2 player is different today compared to when it just released

  • @terryking7434
    @terryking7434 2 роки тому +224

    I wouldnt have him any other way. If spy was on equal footing to the other classes you'd be a paranoid wreck. Issue is you playing him how intended, disguise & backstab rather than the obnoxious dead ringer & kunai combo

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +51

      Yeah, maybe I should have talked about the other playstyles. Though I was mostly interested in how he was designed from the get-go, rather than looking at how his weapons change his playstyle.
      Good point though.

    • @Liger_Soba
      @Liger_Soba 2 роки тому +25

      The one spy I fear the most is a confident Stock revolver gun spy with the dead ringer. I’ve played the class that way and I’ve done more well that I’d like to admit, top scoring and maybe even top fragging occasionally. But when fighting them it’s as if they have no weaknesses, able to kill pyros as if they’re just another average class, faking their deaths to get speed or to get out of sticky situations, and almost never backing down from a fight only to 3-4 tap you faster then you could process your health going down. The one way they go down the most too is pocketed people, especially vac medica. But even then they could just play spy as intended and somehow backstab you in someway. That’s my true fear when facing against the class 👀💦

    • @yeahyeah4433
      @yeahyeah4433 2 роки тому +13

      Its not obnoxious though, its like saying using Default sticky and Iron bomber is "Obnoxious" (Pre hitbox change I guess), it isn't, its the best loadout to deal with the community now, everyone knows Spy now, the disguise menu is pretty obsolete (Its still really useful but not for its intended purposes) and everyone knows how to chase down invis spies now. Now please don't get me wrong, you can still dominate with Invis and default knife, but the Kunai Ringer adds a very quick and fast paces playstyle and works perfectly for trickstabbing if you've put the hours in to get good at it, because it rewards you chaining kills, the Ringer can be obnoxious but tbh its so easy to counter now, I play Soldier and Demo a lot and its so easy to avoid getting stabbed by them and knowing where their going and if they ringered. He's a weak class and people still complain about a combo that is only broken if you're actually a really good spy. Ofc u can sit and wait for ringer to charge every single time, that is obnoxious I agree, thats a scum move imo.

    • @malif1279
      @malif1279 2 роки тому +2

      Facts, even though he is the weakest class in the game that doesn't mean he's a bad class, far from it

    • @aSmallGreenDot
      @aSmallGreenDot 2 роки тому +1

      @@Liger_Soba yeah that's my favourite way to play spy, revolver or sometimes amby, and use the dead ringer as often as I can and I hardly die. I'm not super effective though.

  • @clothandleather2838
    @clothandleather2838 2 роки тому +1

    iv'e found that disguiseing as a teamate and using the deadringer is the best way to start a match to then get behind and disguise as an enemy

  • @Napert
    @Napert 2 роки тому +10

    me vs spies: wtf how did he get behind me? fucking teleport hackers
    me as spy: wtf how does everybody know where i am at all times when i'm invisible? fucking wallhackers

  • @noxer5589
    @noxer5589 2 роки тому +21

    i think spy would really benefit from being able to mimic class activities like revving as heavy, scoping as sniper and (maybe hauling fake buildings as engineer and connecting a fake medi beam? idk)

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +9

      I had thought about that. Could be a cool addition, but I'm not sure how it would affect the balance of the game.

    • @therealevilmudbug
      @therealevilmudbug 2 роки тому +6

      Eh, fake medi beam would be too obvious

  • @tommygun4552
    @tommygun4552 2 роки тому +123

    The thing I am frustrated about Spy is that the class is extremely weak that if you are extremely good at playing spy you could've done better in any other classes, for example a Spy in a same skill level as a Scout would lose to the Scout, due to his extremely high mobility and high damage output, A Spy in a same skill level as a Soldier would lose to the Soldier because Soldier has larger health, deals tons of explosive damage, and they are most of the time airborne due to rocket jumping making them harder to kill, there are so many ways that a Spy on the same skill level as any other class would lose
    Nice video, you earned a sub

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +24

      That's a good point. The Spy truly revolves around their target having a lapse in judgement at just the right time where they can backstab them. Which is easier to do when you're playing against people with a variety of skill levels. But if you play in an environment where the skill floor is generally higher, players will make those mistakes less often.
      Thanks! 🕵️

    • @realdragon
      @realdragon 2 роки тому

      I'm better pyro than spy even tho I have more hours as spy, fairly good timing allows you to easily reflect rockets which makes pyro vs soldier encounters much easier. But I still didn't learn how to rocket surf, I struggle with simple trickstabs

    • @lessar2721
      @lessar2721 2 роки тому +19

      Spys role isnt to 1v1 people he is there to support his team. Like picking important targets that could turn the game. Its just that when the game isn't a close match spy doesnt do much.

    • @rafi_cat2851
      @rafi_cat2851 2 роки тому +10

      He's role is to be stealthy. not suppose to be a offense class like scout. of course a spy is going to die to a 1v1 since spy shines at being stealthy and killing targets when they are least expecting it

    • @lennybjorowitz4256
      @lennybjorowitz4256 2 роки тому +3

      i (in my opinion) think spy is disserving of a buff of some caliber ie make him slightly faster not scout fast but fast enough to outrun meds and most classes. disguises would still slow you down to that classes speed. but it would be nice to be able to toggle the disguise's speed ie your heavy but pressing a button would speed you up to your normal speed. this would help you in closing the distance between you and say a engineer that you have been following for 2 minutes trying to get close enough to stab him.

  • @someweeb6897
    @someweeb6897 2 роки тому +6

    Spy is both the most addicting and most painful class you can play in TF2. One day you're trickstabbing people like it's your average Tuesday, the next you can't even decloak for even a second because the enemy team has eyes in the back of their heads.

  • @ekyanso4253
    @ekyanso4253 2 роки тому +12

    This video made me appreciate the concept of the Spy class a lot more. It's basically a stealth game but done correctly since you're not playing against AI.
    Now I'd have an easier time respecting spy mains if half of them werent smug weebs with trickstab rage compilations on UA-cam.

  • @h410-pr0
    @h410-pr0 2 роки тому +6

    spy would be better if there was more encouragement to play as intended, by using disguises and cloaking, rather than the meta of abusing the crappy hitboxes. some things that I think could improve the class could be:
    1) fixing the hitboxes to be tilted to the side to match the direction that the actual models face
    2) the ability to use animations like scoping in with sniper and using taunts while disguised by default to further convince players that he isn't a spy
    3) a revolver that sacrifices all damage for the ability to shoot your disguise's weapon while disguised to further convince players that he isn't a spy
    4) a watch that makes him have no collision with players and/or become invincible for a short time to counter spy checking, but removes cloak completely and stops him from attacking during this time
    5) a watch that uncloaks faster, but lasts a lot shorter, cloaking takes longer and/or is louder, and decreases melee swing speed, sacrificing chain stabs for the ability to take out one target easier
    but since valve doesn't care about tf2 that much I doubt they'd change anything so idk

    • @10cheesburgers
      @10cheesburgers 2 роки тому +2

      Here is the thing about the tilted hit boxes.... If you get stabbed in the back to the left slightly, its going to look like a full on face stab. Every single time. It's tied to the viewport for a reason.

  • @Slavtron
    @Slavtron 2 роки тому +3

    I never see spies changing weapons while in a disguise to make them more believable and they always disguise as scouts and they always go behind enemies

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому

      That's something I always try to do as Spy. I feel like its not taught very well (if at all) that you can change your disguise's weapon. It's extremely obvious if you're a Demo running towards the front line holding your bottle.

    • @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927
      @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 2 роки тому

      And abuse crappy hit boxes

  • @Tritonofclansakai2
    @Tritonofclansakai2 5 місяців тому +1

    "you look for teammates looking at the backsides of your team"🤨

  • @thatslegit
    @thatslegit 2 роки тому +3

    That's why i adopted the "gun spy" playstyle, when you do crip damage they start treating you like a force of nature scout and leave the area, thats when you can start stabbin' same idea applys to demo, you expect them to have a boundary so they spam stickys but you never expect the same demo charging at you and taking your head

  • @angrydragonslayer
    @angrydragonslayer 2 роки тому +8

    All i can really say is this: play as if being seen means you die
    You should know every ammo spot on almost every map you play as an engie, use that. If you're still uncomfortable about your cloak, i suggest going letranger/c&d to extend your ability to stay in the "prevent detection" layer as this layer is your most express advantage followed by "prevent lock".
    DR and trickstabs are both in the next inward layers, decoy and destroy respectively. These are both low-reliability options and should be avoided unless you are highly skilled or fighting inexperienced opponents.
    After locked (detected as a spy), the spy is at a massive disadvantage at all stages of the onion and should seek to disengage or damage the enemy if disengaging is impossible.

    • @angrydragonslayer
      @angrydragonslayer 2 роки тому

      I almost forgot, this is applying the integrated survivability onion to spy gameplay.
      You are about as vulnerable as a tank in a field filled with people who all got javelins so it makes sense.

  • @nalidhardstyle8551
    @nalidhardstyle8551 2 роки тому +6

    I think spy being kinda bad really adds to them though. If spy is bad, less of them will exist. If less exist, enemies will be less prepared to deal with them. Less prepared enemies = easier backstabs. Simple by being bad, your actually increasing the chance you get away with being a spy, as people aren't normally expecting bad things

  • @ToxicSalad420
    @ToxicSalad420 2 роки тому +6

    No one has ever so accurately described my spy experience as a whole.

  • @oleja9185
    @oleja9185 Рік тому +2

    If you noob as spy or unlucky with him, do not tell everyone spy is awfull. Maybe you just need practice.

  • @blacklight683
    @blacklight683 2 роки тому +24

    Great class,bad balance.
    and it's weird cuz the smallest buff can make spy go from under powered to over powered its just like trying to get warm water in the shower it's impossible

    • @ghostface5559
      @ghostface5559 2 роки тому

      horrible class, most of his disguises are useless except like 1 or 2 and his revovler sucks for no reason.

    • @blacklight683
      @blacklight683 2 роки тому +3

      @@ghostface5559 get gud :)

    • @Evil_Pixl
      @Evil_Pixl Рік тому

      @@ghostface5559good point on the classes. You should only use 3 classes. Medic, scout, spy, those classes are the fastest moving disguised anything else is a disadvantage

    • @SamuelTrademarked
      @SamuelTrademarked Рік тому

      @@Evil_Pixl don't disguise as scout, you'll get found out instantly

    • @Evil_Pixl
      @Evil_Pixl Рік тому

      @@SamuelTrademarked it’s more obvious but it also has a smaller hit box. Not the best disguise

  • @evdestroy4121
    @evdestroy4121 2 роки тому +23

    I feel like you just don't have enough experience with the class. The key is to join the enemy team in firefights with your disguise. When they're distracted with the enemy team, then you stab them while they're not able to Spy check. I personally use the Your Eternal Reward, which helps stealth tremendously since you instantly disguise on backstab and it makes no sound or ragdoll, but other knives are good for different situations as well. Uncloak behind walls or obstacles or while there's a lot of noise in order to hide your cloak sound. Make sure to use your revolver, and don't forget there are other invis watches that can be used in different ways to trick the team (The Deadringer is especially useful when the enemy team is being very aggressive and it's hard to get behind them). Your revolver is also incredibly powerful, with good aim you can deal a lot of damage with only it. It's especially useful for picking low players off since you can see how much health enemy players have, and it can also be really good for getting kills from the front lines with your team if the enemy team is proving hard to get past. Also, be sure to use a variety of disguises instead of just one. I see too many Spies who just disguise as one class for an entire round, and it becomes painfully obvious who is the Spy when they're always the same class.

  • @Grampssssss
    @Grampssssss 2 роки тому +1

    7:26 you’re edging us you sick bastard

  • @clamidia7729
    @clamidia7729 2 роки тому +1

    In Highlander spy thrives in perfecting his timing and basically acts as a pick class in the exact role he gets one important kill then dies. But sometimes he kinda pops off and gets like 2 or 3 people and or gets away. It takes a lot of luck in casual but if you can find a rithem and act as sparaticaly as you can, you can go crazy

  • @redstonewarrior0152
    @redstonewarrior0152 2 роки тому +1

    Give casual servers a chance of enabling friendly fire. That will shake things up

  • @_the_spy_8867
    @_the_spy_8867 2 роки тому +20

    To make Spy better, Valve should make him able to mimic reload of his disguised weapon(even with full ammo), mimic Charging up mini gun like Heavy can do, mimic Snipers scoping and mimic taunts during disguise(that would be mind blowing).
    But what is good in Spies abilities is only his gadgets, I think in TF2 there's no that much gadgets for a double agent.
    So that would be awesome if there's will be more gadgets, such as:
    *Mimic Gun:*
    +) Doesn't undisguised then shooting
    +) Able to shoot fake bullets, projectiles(rockets, arrows and etc...). PLUS, if your disguise holding melee weapon and you shoot with that gun, your disguise will show what you're trying to hit someone with that melee.
    +) Capacity increased by 20%
    +) Has a scope;
    if scoped, your Sniper disguise will also scope
    -) Does _NO DAMAGE_
    -) Uses a Revolver Slot
    Or maybe *Mark of the Outsider*
    !)Direct easter egg to a Dishonored
    ±) Replaces Invis Watches
    +) Giving Spy an ability to Teleport on short distance in any direction.
    +) Has 3 charges, every charge is available per 5 seconds after last teleportation, charges can be regained only by metal(pick medium metal box to gain one full charge)
    +) No decloak sound
    -) After using any teleport(Engineer tele, Mark of the Outsider), player is _Marked-for-Death_ for 5 seconds
    -) Then you got a hit and want to teleport, after teleportation, you'll be slowed down by 20% for 6 seconds(basic slowing effect after getting hit by Sandman's ball)
    Strange one, I know, it needs more fixes I think, but it's just a concept so there's no way Devs ever add this.
    Next one is: *Tueur* (on french - killer)
    +) Decloak sound decreased by 80%
    +) Spy steps sound decreased by 50% (then moving while sitting{slink}, has 0 sound)
    +) Screams of pain is reduced by 30%(idk if it can help)
    -) Cloak duration -20%
    -) Then you get hit while cloaked, your cloak duration will drain faster by 5%
    -) Less health from Healing sources by 35%
    Next is *Phantom:*
    +) +20% Movement Speed while cloaked
    +) +50% Base health if equipped
    +) +25% Cloak duration
    -) The Spy's silhouette, if bumped by an enemy or damaged while invisible, will last 30% longer than with a normal watch.
    -) Every 5 seconds, Spy's silhouette will show up for 1,5 seconds.
    -) Any sapper can be destroyed in one hit(With Jag is 2 hits)
    If you want more concepts of gadgets or weapons, just say so or even send here your own ideas

    • @man-made-man
      @man-made-man 2 роки тому +2

      *Fugitive's Stopwatch:*
      +) Faster cloak recharge rate while moving uncloaked*
      +) Cloak doesn't drain while moving cloaked
      +) +20% damage resistance while cloaked
      -) -50% cloak time
      -) +66% cloak drain rate
      -) +0.5s blink time
      -) 0.8s delay before cloaking
      -) Ammo kits and dispensers do not refill the Spy's cloak meter
      -) Cloak meter must be fully charged to use
      *Depends on the Spy's current move speed like Cloak and Dagger

    • @AlbinoAxolotl1993
      @AlbinoAxolotl1993 2 роки тому +1

      I got a absurd one. Items that adds a "Spyja" subclass. Such as an weapon that replaces his revolver with a set of shuriken or a dart gun. Along with a throwing knife. It disables the cloak, but using mouse 2 when you have it out can throw it, letting you do a short range backstab. It works like the Huntsman where you hold m2 to aim it (m1 lowers it) and release to throw the knife. Can only be refilled at a resupply or picked up from said stabbed body.

  • @razorhollow4936
    @razorhollow4936 2 роки тому +1

    When it comes to the bad part, look up "Spy is the weakest class in TF2"
    Its a great Video

  • @badideagenerator2315
    @badideagenerator2315 2 роки тому +1

    I think spy could do with more gadgets at his disposal.
    These could include:
    • poison/hallucinogens which can contaminate health kits
    • decoys of himself and his teammates
    • a timed explosive as an unlockable for the sapper slot
    • a cloakwatch which negates his revolver's spread instead of granting him invisibility
    • a suppressed handgun for his revolver slot.

  • @TRGavin
    @TRGavin 2 роки тому +2

    **forgets to replace the hl2 ragdoll sounds with tf2 ragdoll sounds** 0:04

  • @bobbybingo4506
    @bobbybingo4506 2 роки тому +1

    I remember one time I was turtling as an engineer with some friends on 2fort and I was with one of them in the Intel and I asked him to upgrade my building for me and he said "I can't I'm in the sewers." That's when I realized "wait if he's in the sewers, WHO IS THIS?!" a spy had disguised as my friend and was walking around with me for like 10 minutes without me knowing.

  • @gulfgiggleanimations4472
    @gulfgiggleanimations4472 2 роки тому +1

    Spy is the class that has to deal with randomness the most. It’s such a delicate game of cat and mouse and any little bit of random spam, sudden unpredictable movement, or person simply turing the corner at the wrong time can just send you straight back to the respawn cabinet. Some situations are just completely unwinnable, the worst is pybros that ruthlessly hunt spies.

  • @ComedicLetter
    @ComedicLetter 2 роки тому +2

    Arguably, the greatest tool in a spy’s arsenal, and also his greatest weakness, is the microphone.
    A good spy with a cooperative team can call for a push to distract the enemy as he moves in to shiv some poor German doctor’s kidneys. But once spotted, a team can be alerted when there’s some Frenchman looking to cause a little mischief.
    Also, barely related side note:
    if you’re “chilling” as engineer, either you aren’t paranoid like me, or you’re engineering defensively. Nothing wrong with that, that’s how he’s supposed to be played.
    But you haven’t truly engineered until you’ve done “frontier engineering” (said frontier being “oh no, this is the enemy’s spawn area”). Admittedly, not my finest moments...

  • @Charlieweddle
    @Charlieweddle 2 роки тому +6

    As a guy that's played platinum division spy in UGC for a few years and has put in more hours than I care to admit into the game, Spy is absolutely the weakest class, but there are some things people forget.
    One: The Revolver exists, and is way better than people realize. With it, you can somewhat reliably three tap Scout, Engineers, Snipers, Spies and, with damage ramp up, Medics, Pyros and Demomen.
    Two: You need to coordinate with your team in a comp setting. You have a unique circumstance where you can see uber charge on the enemy team, where they're setting up, how they're positioned, sentry locations. You should be on coms almost as much as your medic.
    Three: It's true disguises kind of suck, but the odd one or two can fool even good players. Something like a soldier disguise can make people turn off their brain due to the movement reduction and the fact a roaming soldier can be almost anywhere reasonably.
    Four: Spy is typically a Hail Mary pick class in the sense that you're supposed to kill the Medic, Sniper or Demo, full stop mission objective. Dying is part of it typically unless you get lucky or run something like Kunai. Now you can argue Sniper does that job but better via quickscopes, but I think that has to do more with Sniper being too oppressive over Spy being too weak.
    Lastly: Pyros can be a problem, but a problem has solutions. If he's sticking near the combo, you can take out snipers and teleporters. It's all about always being a huge pain in the ass for the team to deal with and poking them where they're not working together. You're not going to get kills like your demo or heavy, but you will be able to help make the job way easier for them by getting a key pick right before/during a push.
    Honestly, when it comes to changes, I think the biggest quality of life change would be for the revolver's spread to be slightly tightened, and some button to let you move at spy speed while disguised as a heavier class, in order to increase disguise options. Maybe a readjustment to Ambassador to where stock Revolver doesn't outshine it at every distance save like one, otherwise, I can't think of a way to tweak him without him becoming a nightmare for new players.

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +1

      Thank you for your perspective, I appreciate hearing from someone who's played a lot in that environment. It's just so vastly different from the 12v12 format, I can barely imagine what it's like playing Highlander or 6v6

    • @colagamers2649
      @colagamers2649 2 роки тому +1

      Wait, I play tf2c, that is EXACTLY an option (normal spy speed)

  • @tsunderemerc2963
    @tsunderemerc2963 2 роки тому +4

    I always found Spy fascinating because his class can be affected even more by your opponent's skill than your own (or more so than other classes). That's why I never liked playing him, because he never felt like he could get consistent results. You either had babies that lack situational awareness (like me) or veterans than can often see through your tricks, or just remember to randomly shoot teammates and ruin your play. He's almost on a cooldown, you get one or two kills, then move off him entirely until your enemy thinks the Spy has changed class before striking again. And he doesn't really get any form of subclass or alternate methods, not even gun spy since most of his revolvers kind of suck....but why, say, get Ambassador headshots when you can just play Sniper? A stealth class isn't a bad idea, it just needed more work.

  • @susinspector9613
    @susinspector9613 2 роки тому +1

    As a spy main i can confirm most of this.
    But one thing that is very important is that it is not always about the kills but more about the objective.
    Let me explain…
    If you are playing payload and your team is fighting the enemy trying to defend, its your job to make it hard for the enemy to get to your team.
    Your team is fighting for example 8v9 (cuz ur spy) but if you terrorize the enemy spawn you can distract them from coming to the frontline and that makes it easier for your team. YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO KILL THEM TO DO THAT!!!
    you can just exist nearby and maybe show yourself ones every while.
    It is better to distract 4 enemies trying to spycheck for a total of 3 minutes than it is to kill someone and them respawning in 10 seconds.

  • @kritz2605
    @kritz2605 2 роки тому +2

    The issue with Spy is that you are reliant on what the enemy team is doing. Spy has to play mind games with the enemy in order to succeed.
    You have to constantly ask yourself questions:
    Would the class I’m disguised as stand here?
    How aware of me are the enemy?
    Am I being too predictable? Is the enemy too unpredictable?
    All of this on top of the questions all the other classes ask themselves, like who’s the most important to kill? Or where’s their tele?

  • @Justanotherpyromain
    @Justanotherpyromain 2 роки тому +2

    “Presumably functioning brains” I love that line

  • @nicolasdanyi467
    @nicolasdanyi467 2 роки тому +1

    First of all I agree with a lot of those things that you mentioned. But as a spy main I think that playing spy is one of if not the HARDEST class to play in tf2. Spy is a very weak class if we think about the fact that it can be killed really easily by ALL of the othet classes…BUT by playing and failing many times you start to gain game sense..you start to understand the movement of the players,you get better at avoiding to bump into enemies,I would even consider saying that u can win a whole round to your teamnates by destroying a sentry nest etc etc… and (for me) it feels so rewarding to make people mad with good kunai dead ringer combo :) oh and after mastering trickstabs you become almost invincible and thats thats the part when I get a dopamine rush through my brain,which is the only thing that keeps me off from leaving this game.

  • @cyrniki
    @cyrniki 2 роки тому +1

    although i dont play spy competitively, i do play medic competitively in both formats! spy is truly a lovely class, in comp, hes meant to serve as your insight to the enemy team, he is constantly comming where their sniper is, their combo, are they about to push, etc. coordinating a sap with your spy as you're about to push in is so exhilarating, along with your spy getting that sexy pick because their medic didnt spycheck right before they use uber, thats the most beautiful part of spy. using good opportunities to go in for stabs is super important, along with knowing when to switch over to your gun too!
    tldr i love comp spy. theyre silly and i like listening to them talk

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +1

      I remember thinking about that at some point while I was writing this, how Spy is useful for just getting information. Wish I would have talked about that more, it's a pretty useful aspect of his class at higher skill levels.

    • @cyrniki
      @cyrniki 2 роки тому

      @@PretzelYT its all good!!! thank you for your response, and honestly. if you ever wanna make an update to this video, go ham and ask some comp players for help!! maybe even some interviews would be cool! :D

  • @uneditedcontent4864
    @uneditedcontent4864 2 роки тому +2

    As a spy main I can confirm this class is stressful as hell and you aren't playing it wrong.

  • @HJHWolf
    @HJHWolf 2 роки тому +3

    Even if Valve put friendly fire in game, jarate and milk are ready for spies. Players would simply prepare more jarate and milk against spies.

  • @skurge7685
    @skurge7685 2 роки тому

    This guy is CRIMINALLY undersubbed. For a dude with only 400 subs, your bids are high quality as hell. Keep it up my guy.

  • @riku2193
    @riku2193 2 роки тому +2

    spys don't usually disguise as scout anyways because you are slower so everyone knows by looking at you are not a scout. A slow scout is a spy.

    • @matheusmartinhogalvani1716
      @matheusmartinhogalvani1716 2 роки тому

      it depends, scout has a lower body so make it easier to hide, some box that would let the spy or other classes heads open to a shot it would not for a scout disguise, and the scout disguise does not slow you down, so sometimes it is worth using it, but defnitely not to try to trick someone

    • @riku2193
      @riku2193 2 роки тому

      @@matheusmartinhogalvani1716 yea I know it can be used if you want to try to avoid head shots from sniper, but cloaking is usually better at that

    • @DannyCheezits
      @DannyCheezits 5 місяців тому

      @@matheusmartinhogalvani1716 scout disguises are for when you are just trying to rush someone down, no one ever believes them though

  • @RambunKtious
    @RambunKtious 2 роки тому

    just found your channel and its a hidden gem on youtube, i see people with 100k subs that dont have as good editing as you, thank you for good content

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому

      Thanks!!! I'm proud with how far my editing skills have come but I also have a long way to go.

  • @enraikow6109
    @enraikow6109 2 роки тому +3

    This is a very roundabout way of making me play amongus again

  • @skelenize
    @skelenize 2 роки тому +2

    there’s also cl_interp which buffs spy for the low low price of losing all respect

    • @GSCreat0r
      @GSCreat0r 2 роки тому

      somewhat not really, i learned how to face stab using that trick but i get it way more consistent using a lower value as i would use normally

  • @Clatgineer
    @Clatgineer 2 роки тому

    For some reason the default spy decloak noise doesn't have a cut off so you can quite literally be heard from a mile away

  • @Whaddif_
    @Whaddif_ 2 роки тому +1

    I will never forget literally walking behind a full payload as a disguised spy bc i was fake changing my weapons as if I was an enemy spamming my scroll wheel, best feeling ever

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому

      Hahaha I do that to. I spam scroll sometimes, so I try to emulate that as Spy. I don't think anyone ever believes it though 😢

    • @Whaddif_
      @Whaddif_ 2 роки тому

      @@PretzelYT yeah they’ve gotten too smart 😂 gotta use all the tricks, scroll spam, bunny hop & keep turning around to act like ur running away. Only all 3 and then maybe a chance! great vid btw 👍🏼

  • @wrongtime9097
    @wrongtime9097 2 роки тому +3

    The best way to play Spy effectively is to make losing scenarios for the enemy.
    It doesn't matter if the enemy knows you're a Spy when hunting you down means dying to your teammates anyway.

  • @Ry8ot
    @Ry8ot 2 роки тому +1

    didn't mention the revolver once

  • @Vexonia_Music
    @Vexonia_Music 2 роки тому +1

    I'm gonna be real, one of the main reasons I don't play Spy is because to me, playing Spy feels anxiety inducing, like the tension that at any moment you could be found out and have to escape.

  • @arsonexc
    @arsonexc 2 роки тому +1

    While watching this video, I had thought of a few concepts to make spy's disguises more convincing out of the oscar winning acting. Because when a spy is found out they're either forced to fight or flee, this gives them the chance to commit to the disguise. (not a genius at balancing stats but atleast some of these concepts would appeal to people.)
    Disguise Revolver
    +15% cloak from ammo packs and dispensers
    +20% Damage resistance while disguised
    +Revolver can fire 1 shot without breaking disguise, additionally will play the firing animation and sound of disguised weapon. Doesnt work on projectile based weapons. Melee weapon disguises will play the swing animation.
    -20% damage penalty
    -20% fire rate
    Invincibility Watch
    2 modes, middle mouse to alternate
    = Cloak mode
    basically the invis watch but the duration is halved (medium ammo boxes fully replenish)
    = Invincibility mode
    +You do not go invisible but damage reduction is increased to 75% (no indicators for the enemy) for 2-3 seconds depending on cloak. (Pyro wont get fire queue and no sound like the spycicle melting)
    -Uncloaking speed duration is increased by 1 second
    (Basically a weapon that forces people to put more than 2 seconds to spy check and promotes actually fooling the enemy)

  • @OmegaRC59
    @OmegaRC59 2 роки тому +6

    A lot of these issues can be solved by getting good at the revolver and not second guessing it as a reliable midranged weapon and a great backup tool. You only need 1 shot's worth of a time advantage to win against most classes except the very high health ones (and Spy is terrible at dealing with soldiers either through stabs or gunshots, so any good spy will avoid them in open areas where they're unpredictable). And Pyros literally can't do anything about a spy that's shooting people well out of their range. There's a reason the loading tips tell you to use the revolver for Pyros or other hard to deal with players, after all.
    They made the conscious decision to give Spy a capable gun rather than the tranquilizer gun, which in my mind makes me think they wanted to give him the ability to be a decent help in a gunfight. Not as damaging as the other classes but far more reliable at dealing low to medium amounts of damage at further, safer ranges. That gets you a lot more kills than you would expect
    Tl;dr revolver good

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +3

      Great point. I'm always focused on going for the FLASHY backstab, but it's easy to forget about the revolver. I did include at least one clip of me using it, but it's something I do forget about a lot.

    • @OmegaRC59
      @OmegaRC59 2 роки тому +1

      @@PretzelYT Yeah. Because I rely on it a lot I end up running pure stock almost all of the time, the l'etranger's damage penalty makes it harder to deal with anything other than light classes. But after 10,000 stock revolver kills and in many different loadouts, it's just so reliable once you learn how to aim it, and it's hilarious how often you can kill someone with less than 42 across the map in a couple of lucky shots.
      And like I said, there's really nothing a Pyro can do about a spy using it. You're faster than the pyro if he's using his weapons, and if he pulls out the powerjack he'll potentially enter the 3-shotting threshold that normally you're outside of in order to avoid the flamethrower. Much easier than hoping he falls to a trickstab and that you also don't die to afterburn afterwards. And if they're using the shotgun, you're already well outside of meatshot range, so these just kind of naturally compliment the weapon and the class. Plus you feel like a cowboy the whole time which is a big plus

  • @dusty987
    @dusty987 2 роки тому +1

    To all Spy mains: You have a Revovler...
    USE IT!

    • @AliceLoverdrive
      @AliceLoverdrive 2 роки тому +1

      Even better, you have an Ambassador. Use it!

  • @juliusechipare2932
    @juliusechipare2932 2 роки тому +1

    As spy, my favorite part is acting. My favorites are a scout asking for help with a sentry ahead or being a friendly hoovy. Does it waste time, yeah, but the reactions are priceless.

  • @DASmallWorlds
    @DASmallWorlds 2 роки тому

    Wasn't expecting to see my mug at 5:49 (medic)! Good video!

  • @niutuiui9741
    @niutuiui9741 2 роки тому +1

    When I play spy all the heavies get spy-dey senses and spray me down

  • @flytrapYTP
    @flytrapYTP 2 роки тому +1

    I keep thinking about how different the Spy would be if friendly fire was a thing in normal TF2. Or if they gave the Spy more options to make his disguises more convincing. Or if they bumped his health to 150.

  • @GingeCrimson
    @GingeCrimson 2 роки тому

    As a spy main, I just kinda like wait for the enemy team to focus on something else and then sneakily backstab, or even USE MY REVOLVER.

  • @toastedmarsh6185
    @toastedmarsh6185 2 роки тому +1

    I would like to see the sapper slot be reworked to a gadget slot. Sometimes the engie of the enemy team isnt the main threat or exist leaving you with a dead item. Having gadgets would let spy play into spy movie tropes and prepare the tools to take out the most important target

  • @Cake-rj8sv
    @Cake-rj8sv 2 роки тому

    Spy is so powerful that he could make enemy team shiver when they realize spy exist on your team.

  • @himynamewaz7507
    @himynamewaz7507 2 роки тому +1

    I really enjoyed this video. And how you explain your pov on spy. From an engineer’s perspective. Can’t wait for more of this

  • @Justario
    @Justario 2 роки тому +2

    Hey there! As a comp spy player myself, comp spy vs casual spy is a super different experience. In comp, spy's support role comes far more into play since you can communicate with teammates to call out enemy rotations, positions, etc. With proper coordination, spy can be super terrifying, getting super important kills. However, on his own in a comp setting, if you try to make plays like you do in a casual server, you will typically get punished for it. Spy is much more of a sit back and play the backlines class in comp, who can be a disruptor when used correctly. I will say in casual, the chaos makes it far easier for massive chainstabs and cool flashy plays though.
    Edit: He is still by far the weakest class regardless of setting, but in terms of "buffing" him, honestly for pubs removing spawn wallhacks would be HUGE. Otherwise, I think he is fine as is.

    • @FIVEBASKET
      @FIVEBASKET 2 роки тому

      Oh

    • @Justario
      @Justario 2 роки тому

      @@FIVEBASKET Got any questions? More than willing to answer any.

    • @catastrophist5010
      @catastrophist5010 2 роки тому

      how do you utilize the dead ringer? for example, you pop it, run straight to the enemy backline, what would you do if they dont believe your disguise and since dead ringer take like 5 years to charge, how can you escape the sistuation?

    • @Justario
      @Justario 2 роки тому +1

      @@catastrophist5010 From my own experience, I use the dead ringer in 2 main ways: Situation one: On a KOTH map, I use it to get behind enemy lines, I do not care if I get killed, I just want to get behind them. If you die afterwards, sometimes it just can't be helped. Situation 2: I use it as I am about to die, if I have ~40 health, ill use it to escape to a pack / out of the fight. IMO, better to use the DR as an escape tool rather than a speed boost to get behind enemies. I would also say use the L'Etranger to build up boost quicker + Big Earner for max efficency.

  • @zenlis1291
    @zenlis1291 2 роки тому

    I am a spy mains worst nightmare. i'm paranoid all the time, i move like a person who has just learned how to use WASD(hold down W while randomly clicking A or D), i'm pretty much unkillable when on stairs, i always look behind me, i play engineer in a very stupid way where i place my sentries to cover other teammate's sentries just in case of a spy that back stabs someone, and the better i get with the Pomson, the less cloak the spies have. And i WILL NOT talk about the spy massacre of 22...

  • @RdTrler
    @RdTrler 2 роки тому +1

    There's a number of things that the mere paranoia about Spies causes, and while they're mostly rare and fringe case scenarios, they do crop up. Chief among them is making people play classes that are less suited for the map. If you can inspire a vendetta from an enemy who goes Pyro when they were previously blowing your team's Sentries up, that's a win. If all you do is harass Snipers at their battlements, even if you aren't killing them they might recruit half their team to forget the objective and throw the game.

  • @TheShadow7771
    @TheShadow7771 2 роки тому +6

    Always loved Spy as a concept.

  • @exdeefacemusic
    @exdeefacemusic 2 роки тому

    i was in a casual game as blu on stage 2 of gold rush. there were two engineers with sentries and dispensers, one of them had an unusual hat and the other just had a regular one. the cart was somewhere near the tunnel entrance, and the rest of the players were fighting over there. i had the cloak and dagger equipped, so i found a safe spot and waited. shortly after, a pyro comes out of spawn and joines them - spraying flames around the nest. still with the cloak and dagger, i sat and waited. the pyro didn't leave, so the three were huddled in the corner. for some reason, i was compelled to stay and see if i could take out the nest.
    now i get the idea, the three of these players were working together as a team, as as a result they're stronger than the sum of their parts. but i stood there for a over two minutes, where none of us were engaged in the real action that was happening around the cart.
    i couldn't help but wonder if they were even having any fun, because i wasn't. i couldn't really blame them for playing this way, because anything less would've probably given me an opportunity to get a backstab. the real issue is that there are spies in the game that force these behaviours out of people that aren't really fun. i hate playing against heavies that constantly CONSTANTLY turn around, or snipers that seem to have their volume at despicable levels and hear my decloak from far distances or over gunfire and explosions. but being instantly killed just for having your attention fixed on something isn't fun either, and this is the alternative.
    as much as i enjoy playing spy, he's mechanics are not fun to play against.

  • @literallyvergil1686
    @literallyvergil1686 2 роки тому

    As a spy main I fully agree with this, spys problem is just that he hasn't really caught up to the current landscape of the game, in 2007-2014 was powerful due to being so unique most players didnt fully understand such a complex class but now all his tricks and gimmiques were found out and most people find spy as more of an annoyance rather than stress inducing paranoia, ive lately find myself switching off of spy alot especially in uncletopia servers because playing him against competent players is just not fun and I switch to demo or soldier and actually do well, great videos

  • @FortressFrenzy
    @FortressFrenzy 10 місяців тому

    10:27
    bignus on their phone : do you ever download music illegally
    moo'j : yes

  • @MusicMemes2009
    @MusicMemes2009 2 роки тому +9

    Until you noticed the spy knows how to use a *G U N*

    • @TheCommenterSam
      @TheCommenterSam 2 роки тому

      Especially if the gun in question is the Ambassador, L’Étranger or crit-boosted Diamondback.

    • @TheCommenterSam
      @TheCommenterSam 2 роки тому +1

      @Aquarium Gravel Revolver does have the advantage to finish off low HP enemies, especially since Spy have the ability to read the enemy’s HP by pointing at them. You can combine that with Diamondback’s guaranteed crits stored as it deals 102 damage per shot, finishing off an injured Sniper, for example.
      Only go for backstab if the enemy is unaware and is at high HP, and / or if you’re good at trickstabbing and stairstabbing.

  • @Beckwourth
    @Beckwourth 2 роки тому +3

    8:22
    Ehh.. let's dial that back a bit TF2 players don't have brains.. it's just a braincell they have but no functioning brain.

  • @pikusek2550
    @pikusek2550 2 роки тому +2

    Hey, great flow in the video, i loved the smooth transitions i think this is great. It got me thinking of my time playing TTT on gmod the og among us, where i would just see people being suspicious and then killing them but since i got no actual evidence i was taken as an traitor myself. Damn all the spy thoughts in your head makin you think like him

    • @PretzelYT
      @PretzelYT  2 роки тому +1

      I played a lot of gmod back in the day, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time in TTT servers. But I know what you mean, tensions run HIGH in gamemodes like that and you suspect everyone.

  • @kortcobane
    @kortcobane 2 роки тому +1

    Me with 4k hours on spy: yes very interesting

  • @lostlogic6911
    @lostlogic6911 2 місяці тому

    I have a new weapons Idea for the Spy. He is able to make decoys of himself in a server, (about 3 should be enough) that will run around distrating enemies while the Spy go for a backstab. The decoy will act like mindless AI but can't be hit and will puff up into smoke once done. The decoys has the same collision as a regular spy, and can't pass through dispensers.
    Negative buff is he can't disguise ( unless he has an eternal reward) and slow charging time on his disguise kit.
    Imagine the Chaos when the small server suddenly gets filled by more players than usual.

  • @miss-sagemoon
    @miss-sagemoon 2 роки тому +1

    to quote Funke, anything spy can do sniper does better. If you want to play a pick class and get key kills, play sniper. If you want to get into the enemies head and make them question whether or not there is still a spy, play spy.

  • @hobojoe9880
    @hobojoe9880 2 роки тому

    One trick you can do if you know an enemy is paranoid is to use the cloak and dagger and use voice lines around them. If they don't react, then you can just decloak and kill them. If they do react, then they'll be distracted and not help their team, and you can go somewhere else.

  • @coltonfields2952
    @coltonfields2952 2 роки тому

    I play highlander as Pyro and most of the spies kills come from when im busy dealing with spam or he drops in cloaked from somewhere i wasnt expecting, and the spy usually dies right after. Spies in highlander really need a distraction for them to get a kill on a member of the combo, like right after a uber, most times he kind of functions as a camera calling out stuff to the rest of the team.

  • @5ailor
    @5ailor 2 роки тому +4

    It's pretty clear many ppl haven't played against ppl who have 10k hours on spy
    These guys r insane, using ambassador to headshot u and spycicle and deadringers to get away from even pyros

    • @Evil_Pixl
      @Evil_Pixl Рік тому +1

      Yeah it’s pretty obvious with these comments. People don’t realize that spy takes a lot more time to get good at. If you have 200 hours as pyro you’re pretty close to the top of the skill ceiling where as spy is thousands of hours

  • @danielsurvivor1372
    @danielsurvivor1372 2 роки тому +2

    Tf2 Community: Spy is bad class.
    Tf2 Devs: Ok here are the toys to make him atleast somewhat on par with others: Kunai which gives him enough hp to maybe escape his 1 stab and die problem, Dead Ringer same issue being solved by Kunai but worse, Ambassador fixing issues with razorback, Sniper being op in general and Spy being weak as, his stock primary is the only primary that can't two shot light classes like Scout(max ramp up Revolver does 60 dmg...) Diamondback same as Ambassador, meant to give Spy ability to two shot light classes but on rate occasions you lived after your first stab or sapping (only issue with Diamondback is getting crits from teleporters which is easy to farm).
    Tf2 Community: NOUUUUUU THOSE ARE TOXIC/OP UNLOCKS, NERF EM!1!1!1
    Tf2 devs: Ok, *nerfs nearly all weapons I mentioned*
    Tf2 Community: Why is Spy OP? We should maybe buff him? :D
    Tf2 Devs: ...
    So yeah Spy being weak is Tf2 Community fault, they wine about totally fair, balanced unlocks that were never banned in 6s, only Diamondback was banned but only in Highlander and because it's easy to farm crits from teleporters, NOT from "102 damage of crits with no fall off"
    So literally rebuff all Spies unlocks, add slightly mote dmg ramp up to Revolver and have fun. The whole point of spy is being infuriating, like Engy, so why not Spy?

    • @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927
      @joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 2 роки тому

      Just nerf diamondback, it makes amby useless right now

    • @danielsurvivor1372
      @danielsurvivor1372 2 роки тому +1

      @@joeyjonquantaviusjr9927 Amby is useless even without Diamondback, some Spy main showed that Stock outdps Amby in almost all ranges and when Amby does outdmg Stock it's very slightly.

  • @SamyakGupta-e5q
    @SamyakGupta-e5q 6 місяців тому

    Once herd from a spy main
    "Playing spy isnt only about getting back stab, you play psychological warfare with your chosen victim"

  • @Lucanoptek
    @Lucanoptek 2 роки тому

    Maybe being disguised could grant a sizeable damage resistance, that way you take more hits meant to spy check and pretend they don't affect you

  • @Noobgalaxies
    @Noobgalaxies 2 роки тому +1

    How I feel Spy should be be balanced(besides getting rid of the awful spawn outline):
    Imo the reason Spy is so difficult is because his main method of getting value is through backstabs and almost nothing else. Even sapping is reliant on backstabs because you have to kill the engie and sometimes his guards for successful sapping. Compared to the more versatile and significantly easier ways other classes get value, this feels like a very tall order for a light class. A bigger issue that comes from this is that the overreliance on backstabs makes Spies easy to spot as they act in ways only a Spy going for a backstab would, making fooling the enemy that much harder. On the other hand, trying to fool the enemies makes it much longer to get a decisive pick. This is also why spies should remember to use their gun; the revolver may have low damage output but when aimed well it is actually quite powerful. It outranges the flamethrower and meatshot range, and combined with Spy's passive to see enemy hp, you can pick off low hp targets with 2 shots from your gun.
    Which is why, inspired by another class-based team shooter that balanced a stealth character fairly well(Sombra from Overwatch), my suggestions are
    1. Make his gun more accurate, either by decreasing the spread or lowering the accuracy timer. The accuracy falloff on the gun is insane for how little damage it does per shot. I don't mind the low damage considering Spy's not meant to be played like a cowboy but at least make it feel reliable as a cleanup weapon instead of applying the same accuracy logic as an smg and a rapid-fire pistol. It just feels so unfair when I know I had a target dead to rights but I fail with them having 4 hp left because I decided to fire 1 second after the last shot instead of 1.25 seconds
    On second thought, maybe buff the damage, too. Or add a strong revolver whose downside is making the knife worse. The order of things is usually "backstab --> shoot --> escape" or "shoot single target --> escape". I think engaging a multi-kill plan by shooting first or just shooting should be a rare but viable strategy since it's the "backstab" part where the plan usually falls apart
    2. Improve his disengagement
    Sombra from Overwatch has an engagement tool(invis) and a disengagement tool(translocator). When in a pinch, these abilities can be used vice versa, although it's not ideal besides the translocator --> ult play
    Since I imagine giving Spy a translocator would completely break the game, my suggestion is to buff him to make his invis-watch a more versatile engagement and disengagement tool by
    2a. Give Spy 25 more hp to allow him to survive encounters
    2b. Make afterburn last even shorter when cloaked so he won't be a dead man walking the moment he's on fire
    As a pyro, I almost missed a Spy today after I set him on fire. He outmaneuvered me in an unexpected way and our scout managed to catch his sillhouette and I finished him off with fire. If the afterburn lasted just a little shorter he would've gotten away with it

  • @jjgwhizper
    @jjgwhizper 2 роки тому

    I think a good trick with Spy is to method act, try to walk where a class would be heading to. I've found the best classes to do this for are Pyro and Sniper, Pyro for the frontline picks like Heavy, Demo, and Soldier, and Sniper to pick Medics, Engis, and Snipers. It also helps that both classes have heavy Spy paranoia (Sniper out of fear, Pyro out of obligation), so if you're "keeping an eye out" for "the other team's Spies" you're much less likely to get Spy checked, because your actions and movement will be in line with that of a normal player on their team. Disguises are entirely theatrics and playing the roles you're given is the most reliable way to find stabs, I've found.

  • @_Tzer
    @_Tzer 2 роки тому +1

    a decent idea is disguising as your own engineer that way you could lay off heat from your own

  • @VGamingJunkieVT
    @VGamingJunkieVT 2 роки тому

    An effective Spy doesn't just go backstabbing, they wait until their team is distracting the enemy. You don't have the luxury of checking your back, when the enemy's pelting you.

  • @nerdcuddles7731
    @nerdcuddles7731 2 роки тому

    Spy should be able to do more while disquised and snoop into the enemy teams chat

  • @rasperryguy1197
    @rasperryguy1197 2 роки тому

    I think a good way to make spy better, would be giving him a speed boost when invisible so he is slightly slower than scout and when he is disguised as scout, to be as fast as him, too. Btw when disguised as scout try crouching midair to simulate a double jump, really sells it.

  • @pastatheh7041
    @pastatheh7041 2 роки тому +1

    3:54 i'm not even a veteran (like, i joined tf2 for first time like 3-4 years ago and i have only 600 or less hours) but that part of the video just literally describes me.

  • @MothOnWall
    @MothOnWall 2 роки тому +1

    There's a lot more to playing as the Spy. If you have a team looking for you out of paranoia, then you're doing your job. Your objective is to keep them focused on you rather than their intended target or whatever they're defending. The moment they stop, you punish them for it with backstabbing, sapping, or even using your gun. The trick though is to not get greedy or overconfident when you don't need to be.