Going to be honest I never hated Jared Letos modernized crime boss Joker and shit now after watching this I like him even more. This movie has effectively created the worst Joker of all time to the point that any future versions will automatically look better by default.
For me the flick did have some good ideas that could have worked but they couldn't make them gell together with the script. I couldn't buy that Arthur would just give up being the Joker because some guards shoved a stick up his ass once. I just don't buy that no way a dude with a life time of abuse who was angry about being abused would just randomly give up being crazy because he was once again abused. If anything he would have went even more crazy and wanted to kill the guards probably in some suicide kill mission attempt. At the very least he would have killed the lead fat guard no way he wouldn't have killed that dude shit he killed people in 2019 just for making fun of him it made no sense. The other problem was why did the guards even do it yes they were pricks but they went from pricks to psychopaths in 2 seconds just because Arthur called them dumb and fat on TV come on lol. I could see them beating him up that I can buy but 4 grown men literally tearing his clothes off so they can sexually assault him and shove a stick up his ass like WTF? My other problem is how the hell did the cops even know where he was when they caught him? Like really it would have taken them like hours just to dig through the rubble of the explosion to make sure Arthur wasn't already dead lol.
I hate the "It's not our jobs to meet audience expectations" response .. if they want a movie to do well, yes it very much is. It's not our jobs to turn up and watch whatever slop is produced. It's the same with the gaming industry and Ubisoft's response to their losses at the moment
@@_KnuXles well that depends if the artist wanted to make an action adventure film and the audience shows up expecting a comedy that's not the artists fault In the case of Joker though it is because we were led tony the first movie to expect a much different movie then the one we actually got with the terrible sequel
@@anomalyinc3239 but the question then would be why is the audience expecting a comedy? And in the case of Joker 2: It's Jokin' Time, as well as your point about the original, the fact that none of the advertising material alluded to it being a musical and that some of the more interesting parts of the trailer are in Arthur's imagination probably let a lot of people down. I love a film that subverts expectations, but one that respects its audience as it does so. Not just making a bad film and then blaming us
@@_KnuXles I was speaking broadly not necessarily about Joker 2 i just used that as an example and the last part of your comment I wholeheartedly agree with Subvert expectations by all means as long as it doesn't just abandon the damn story and call the audience stupid for not "getting it" in other words EARN the twist
but most people are dumb and miss the point of good movies....as a schizophrenic I found it relatable and accurate on mh. it was never about the Batman joker....he is not a mastermind....
The only reason the first one worked out is because Todd had oversight on the project with people keeping him in check and a small budget, when someone who prefers making artsy films says he hates superhero movies then MAYBE keeping him on a leash would be the best decision to make. (Also along with the fact he didn’t like that people empathized with Arthur, which is why he spent the whole runtime of this movie tearing him down and robbing him of what dignity he had left.)
And Phillips copied a much more talented director but called it an "homage" (though the plots are near identical, the De Niro cameo makes the lift okay!). No such luxury with the sequel.
Joker 2 is a giant troll by Todd Phillips because he didn’t want to make a sequel in the first place. Then WB made a billion dollars and in response gave him free reign to do whatever he wanted. However the joke is on all of us as well and now people think it was a middle finger to fans of the original movie as well for “liking the movie wrong”. It also gets worse every time Todd opens his mouth.
That doesn't make any sense. Why would he nuke his own career to troll fans? I think it's more likely the first movie was a fluke and he's actually just a shit film maker.
@@ViceRidden Todd Philips, the "real" Joker? Just wanna "watch-da-world-burn" maybe? Either way, he should NEVER be trusted with a Big-budget production EVER again.
I hate these kinds of theories so much. Like, Matrix Resurrection wasn't bad, the director was trolling. Not every movie is Freddie Got Fingered, which is also a shitty movie.
Remember in Pulp Fiction when that crime boss got raped and do you remember that same mob boss devising the most extreme torture for the rapists? Imagine raping any version of Joker (outside this neutered version) and it not ending in some Saw style scheme.
Comic book Joker was evil and insane while Arthur's Joker was never a villian he was always a victim. Comic Joker is a predator who makes plans ahead of time if comic Joker had called ths guards names and such he would have knew beforehand they might try something and he would have had a weapon to kill them before hand or he would have already took control of the patients inside the nut house and used them as his army to over power and kill the guards just a few months after he got put in there. Comic Joker is just pure evil and cares about nothing and no one even if he was raped he would have just laughed while it was happening and probably pretended to pass out during in then when he was picked up he would have bitten one of the guards throats out. Or just pretended to pass out then started planning his revenge the moment he got sent back to his cell then used the other inmates to kill all the guards.
How would he do that bro, Arthur fleck is extremely weak, unintelligent, not charismatic at all. He's not the Joker. He just represents the idea of the Joker.
@@titaniumgamer_10 Yes and that's why these Joker flicks are so divisive because Arthur is basically the concept of Joker but not The Joker. So it makes the movies potentially to artsy for DC fans to enjoy.
I agree, Deadpool and Wolverine isn't that good. Not as bad as other marvel films recently, but it felt hallow, but yeah at least they gave what the fans wanted. Or bits of it.
I'd never seen the mainstream media, the talking heads, the "elites" be so afraid and worked up over a movie as the first Joker film. So of course they made the sequel a giant humiliation ritual to denigrate the audience as if to say "you CAN'T actually fight the system, you will never win, this is what happens."
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 the fact they were scared of the first film and HAD to do the second like they did is proof they were not in fact right. They are scared of you, of me, of all of us. And they should be.
Todd Phillips drove the Joker plane into the ground, thinking he was giving us the finger. 🖕 We still have the first movie, and we simply pretend the second never happened. So, Todd gets the finger right back. 🖕
Plus he's likely blacklisted from helming big-budget films now. Hope it was worth it. Watch and enjoy the first movie again, forget about this "Sequel".
The director was so scared and hurt by all of Hollywood calling the first movie a white supremacist love fest, that he had to do whatever he could to make it lame and gay to make up for it.
'One flute over the cuckoo's nest' 'Taxi Diver' 'Deer Hunter' 'Groundhog day' 'Brazil' 'A scanner darkly' No making a point because you're right, just wanted to name a couple stand alone films that are great 👍🏼
For the record, I never once thought the first Joker movie was the real backstory. I figured it was just another one of the many fake pasts the Joker would make up to confound anyone trying to understand him. I feel like people were disappointed by this movie because they thought, and wanted to believe, that Arthur Fleck was him. That *_the frigging Joker_* was a sympathetic, damaged individual. I'm sorry, but that dog was never gonna hunt- that's not at all how the Joker works!
@@TheThreatenedSwan its almost the exact same movie. They even become famous and try to leverage it like in this film. First film is taxi drover and king of comedy. This one is chicago.
No one in joker is French, understands French, or makes a reference to French culture at all. So where in the heck did this French title come from? So out of place.
@@tomsmith5364 yes, in France it is surely a medical term. Google it- in English it has a number of names that are catered to the English language and not the french language. A common cold, in France, is called “le rhume” and though it is a proper term for the common cold, you don’t see English speakers in the US referring to their common cold as “le rhume”. It wouldn’t make sense for someone who isn’t of French culture and has nothing to do with French culture to randomly refer to their common cold as such. They’d simply say “I have a cold”.
Word from insiders is Todd Philips had pretty much 100% creative control on the movie and accepted no requests from corporate to steer the movie's tone more toward the original. He might have an apparent fixation on not wanting there to be a sequel; agreeing to make the movie only if he had final say on everything. Seems people may have prematurely given him based-ness credit in any case..
How likely do you think it is, given that the director is saying this movie was Phoenix's idea, that this whole movie was made just so Phoenix could bang Lady Gaga? I can think of no other reason for this other than the highly likely and reported fact that the director hated his fans with a brimstone-esque burning passion
The 2nd being a piece of shit doesnt ruin the first one imo, ill personally just ignore it and eventually forget it exists, although i will keep in mind what Todd did to us.....
After watching the Fan First Premiere of Joker: Folie Á Deux, my opinions officially went from disappointed upon first viewing to furious. It also soured my opinions on the first film, too. Joker (2019) should have stayed as a one-off film and nothing else.
Unless you love Joker more then Batman even Joker 2019 isn't a masterpiece it's a good film but not amazing. Even Phillips first Joker was never comic Joker he was always just a mentally ill dude who was angry at society that isn't who Joker is or ever was. Phillips was never interested in making a Joker film he always wanted to just make dramas about a mentally ill dude using the characters names to sell the films. It works better with part 1 because it acts as an origin so spending time with him being abused leading to him becoming the Joker is more understandable. With part 2 Phillips wanted to revert the character back to basics again so he could again tell another story about a mentally ill dude. I'm open minded to character adaptations I liked Letos Joker he was the same classic Crime boss Joker just modernized with tattoos. So I can be open minded with adaptations but this was aweful they altered the characters so much to the point this character could just be called BOB the crazy clown and be the same movie heck it would probably be better.
They made an arthouse film for precisely two people: Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix. I wonder if Warner Bros knew that when they gave $200 million to Todd.
Maybe they let AI write this script. I know that's a big thing right now where there's AI authors, there's a whole big thing with nanowrimo right now... It would make sense if it was a i generated film.
This is such a stupid argument. NOTHING ever NEEDS to be made. NOTHING. If Joker 2 was a masterpiece, none of you would've complained. The fact that it exists is not the problem. The fact that it's garbage is.
I thought I would watch a movie where Arthur Fleck would basked in the attention of his publicity stunt and inciduate the upcoming destruction of Gotham city. Arthur fleck is suppose to love being the bad guy because it Is the only proud moment that he has. But Instead I watched Arthur fleck booty cheeks being violated using the joker persona to escape the consequences of his actions because the writers thought joker is getting the more attention and not enough Arthur fleck
i respect your commitment to not watching marvel stuff until it’s good but i think i speak for most everyone when i say we want to hear your thoughts on new marvel stuff too, like agatha. personally i tapped out of agatha after one and a half eps, so i get not wanting to watch this crap. but i still wanna hear my fav creators (like you) talk about the latest shows and movies and state of marvel overall.
2:34 Can we please stop misusing terms? Joker 2019 is not a prequel to Foile A Deux. A prequel is a story that's chronologically set before another story that was written and released earlier. It means the story is going back in time. To give you an example: The Phantom Menace is a prequel to A New Hope, but it is not a prequel to Attack of the Clones, because AOTC was written and released later than TPM. Sorry, but I've seen this (along with the constant misapplying of term "canon" to refer to "continuity") so many times, it's really getting irritating. Prequel is not a synonym for part 1, and canon is not a synonym for continuity.
Looking at the criticisms of this film, the main problem boils down to this film being in conflict with itself as to whether the main character should embrace his role or not which leads to constant retread, back pedaling and inaction. This had to be solved during the writing process of the film, not being the actual movie, no wonder everyone feels like their time was wasted... The first Joker wasn't the pinnacle of story telling, but it was a competent film, why the creator decided he could go all meta with the sequel, when his level of subtlety was like getting hit in the face with a sledgehammer? Did he thought he could bite more than he could chew?
Finally. Didn't care for the original movie myself but I knew you did, so I was itching to see you rip this to pieces. Also the Arnie joke in the beginning got a good laugh out of me.
@@stellviahohenheimI thought it was captivating but I will admit it had horrible pacing and a weird retro filming style, should’ve just made it for modern day. But I can’t deny the second half is incredible entertainment at the least
Glad to see you back, Nomz! Great review! I didn't like Joker (2019), but this makes it look like Casablanca in comparison. I genuinely think it's the major studio film of the year.
I believe at the end of the first film when Arthur is laugh and is asked what's so funny and he replies "you wouldn't get it" he was talking about Joker 2, and he's right. We didn't get it.
According to to an in-text citation on that movies trivia section on tvtropes: "Hostility on the Set: Todd Phillips reportedly wanted to distance himself from DC Studios with this film, openly expressing in interviews that he would not want to make a third Joker movie, and apparently, during production, prioritizing work with Warner Bros. and clashing with DC over decisions with the film, such as rejecting production notes left by the recently-appointed CEO of DC Studios James Gunn, as well as not running test screenings during post-production."
Joker 1 was a pretty good film. If you took out the comicbook stuff like the Waynes and the Joker title it would be a Taxi Driver Lite kind of film imo
It makes perfect sense to me: Joker 1 terrified the powers that be. I believe what happened is that orders came from the top to 'assassinate' Joker 1 because they couldn't risk the masses relating to Arthur. In reality, our elites are waging class warfare on a massive scale, and they don’t want us getting any dangerous ideas.
Hans Moleman said it best. And he was only 31 years old, which really tells us how important it is to represent his reactions correctly. Another 31 years and we wouldn't be able to understand the overwhelming Moleman-ishness (due to the nuclear radiation from the Springfield power plant)
In psychology, "Folie a deux" is the more common term for a shared delusion between two people. So it does make sense! It sounds really pretentious though.
HEY! We got nothing! What’s the matter with you?! We got NOTHING! The guy at Warner bros that pulled this off knew what he was doing, and he left us with nothing but a big fuck you..
I've said it once in the comments on your post and I'll say it again here: Joker worked great as a one and done movie and if they really wanted to continue the story they actually should've made a fitting follow up and not the superhero equivalent of The Last Jedi but and I can't believe I'm saying it: Even The Last Jedi at least tried, in the loosest sense of the word, to be a proper follow up of The Force Awakens and, from a meta standpoint, at least served as the eye opener for the internet that George Lucas truly WAS the one to do his own creation justice and that the hatred was just a fabrication of the internet. So it at least had that going for it. Joker 2 on the other hand does not.
Arthur isn’t the Joker? Fine, then Joker Folie a deux is just Arthur on prison drugs. It’s nothing beautiful, clever, or genius. It’s just some random guy on drugs imagining shit. Sorry Todd, but there is no hidden genius behind this one and there won’t be anyone looking back on it in a few years giving it the praise it deserves. I have an idea for a great Joker movie. A fourth wall breaking film where Arthur figures out his 1st film was well received, then decides to take revenge out on those who profited from his descent into madness. By conjuring up the idea of a sequel and pitching it to the powers that be, Arthur convinced WB to make Joker 2. Arthur/Joker intentionally make Joker 2 a flop pulling one of the biggest 4th wall breaking jokes of all time on Hollywood. All the other villains, Thanos, Mr paradox, the Harkonens, begin to realize just how dangerous the Joker is.
The title is actually quite clever and the film is no way the worst thing ever made. Its well made and well acted, the big problem is is a complete right turn from the first film.
31:09 Why were you ever expecting that? This version of the Joker was never a wish fulfillment, was never a master mind, was never even a sadist or plotted any of his acts. He was, even in the first movie described as clumsy, awkward, inappropriate and insecure. There never was any training or practice of any kind to turn him into a revolutionary. It would have been IMMENSELY out of character if he began doing that in this movie.
@@masscreationbroadcasts I agree with some of what you're saying,it's true he wasn't a mastermind from the first movie They didn't initially intend for a sequel so maybe they just didn't know what to do, I just provide one example of a direction they COULD have gone in But what you are saying doesn't explain why the whole movie seems to be building towards Arthur embracing the Joker and then it goes absolutely nowhere and falls flat on it's face
Superhero movies have been disappointing me with their stories and characters since the 2000's, so I think they could all benefit from fanservice; better to reference things that are either good or bizarre than play it safe by watering everything down to hopefully achieve relatability. If Joker 2 wasn't sabotaged to get out of a contract or made to apologize for audiences supposedly taking the wrong message from the first one, then they probably just did what all superhero movies do and assume that only coming up with their own stuff can succeed. Arthur wasn't meant to be a supervillain, so make him fail at everything and admit he's in over his head and that realism will theoretically improve the movie; his death is even similar to Jeffery Dahmer's and people loved that series.
1:18 The French word "deux" sounds like the English word "duh". "un, deux, troix, ..." It means "two". "Folie à deux" is found in English dictionaries, though. Merriam-Webster Dictionary: « the presence of the same or similar delusional ideas in two persons closely associated with one another»
the movie doesn't suck, it's just not what people wanted to see. This isn''t the DC comic book villain joker. This is what would happen if someone in real life tried to play the joker. This movie is calling out the fans of the joker. This movie is not meant to glorify or glamorize the joker or his crimes. it's supposed to remind us that Arthur Fleck is mentally ill, unstable, and vulnerable. He's not a super villain. He's just a regular person who is in a bad situation and is going to pay for his crimes.
Meta intentions doesn’t change blatant character assassination. Yes, Arthur is mentally ill. No one questioned that. The first film made that clear, and as such we knew we would get a very different Joker than the comic book version. What that doesn’t change is that Arthur embraced the Joker persona by the end of the first movie, his venting of pain was through the Joker, and he felt as his best as the Joker. Yet the second film wants us to just think none of that ever happened or that one bad night would cause him to just give up when he has had nothing but abuse his entire life.
Maybe the child is going to be the Joker this universe's Batman fights. It would explain why they didn't let the Joker completely Joker-out and why they killed him in the end. They would want to save all of that for the Batman film.
I don't know why we couldn't have gotten this movie's version of Mad Love instead. Maybe that wouldn't have been as original of an idea, but it likely would've been a better one than whatever ideas they tried to execute in the actual movie. 🤒
@@TheAutistWhisperer people were welcoming the idea of a sequel so I don't care for this revisionist idea that people didn't want it Although the first Joker worked fine as a standalone As for Gladiator apparently early reviews are really positive which is a surprise but as i said I'll reserve judgment
you know what moive was also a musical that was successful? South Park Bigger, Longer & Uncut. This movie should of been a banger. I dunno if its the premise or the musical but the 1st one I guess was to the point without muscial scenes tho the OST they used was good when did.
Great movie. I just got out of the movie and I think all the negative hoo hah must be Hollywood politics because it was the best movie of the year.... of several years! I loved the music representing feelings and it was a very emotional film. I totally got it. From beginning to end... brilliantly put together. What is with people today? Does anyone remember what a good film is? You won't find it on Netflix, Prime, Hulu or at the movies anymore. This was wonderful. Remember that word... wonderful?
"This movie wasn't a comedy, It's a f**kin tragedy"
EDIT: I made a follow up video - ua-cam.com/video/P8eyXXxZkYw/v-deo.html
It was a comedy, but not a funny one tho. Thank god I wasn't a fan if the first one
@@hurricaneparro2464I liked the first, but I know better than to get attached to franchises these days
It's semi-depressing and disappointing. Thanks Todd, for pulling a Rian Johnson on us.
It should be called *Joker: Filet the Dude*
Todd Philips= Foleux'-A'-Doucheeeaa'
"It'd be funny if it weren’t so pathetic." -The Joker
"Ah what the heck, I'll laugh anyway!"
@@connorharnage6697 "If you don't like the movie, I've got slides"
Going to be honest I never hated Jared Letos modernized crime boss Joker and shit now after watching this I like him even more. This movie has effectively created the worst Joker of all time to the point that any future versions will automatically look better by default.
Folie A Deux is the metaphorical and literal raping of The Joker.
Peak fiction.
Not just the Joker, the audience.
It’s also French for Madness for 2. I used a translation app to figure that out.
For me the flick did have some good ideas that could have worked but they couldn't make them gell together with the script. I couldn't buy that Arthur would just give up being the Joker because some guards shoved a stick up his ass once. I just don't buy that no way a dude with a life time of abuse who was angry about being abused would just randomly give up being crazy because he was once again abused. If anything he would have went even more crazy and wanted to kill the guards probably in some suicide kill mission attempt. At the very least he would have killed the lead fat guard no way he wouldn't have killed that dude shit he killed people in 2019 just for making fun of him it made no sense. The other problem was why did the guards even do it yes they were pricks but they went from pricks to psychopaths in 2 seconds just because Arthur called them dumb and fat on TV come on lol. I could see them beating him up that I can buy but 4 grown men literally tearing his clothes off so they can sexually assault him and shove a stick up his ass like WTF?
My other problem is how the hell did the cops even know where he was when they caught him? Like really it would have taken them like hours just to dig through the rubble of the explosion to make sure Arthur wasn't already dead lol.
is it just me or was the first joker really bad too. it was gritty and well made but overall it was really stupid and overly dramatic
The behind the scenes drama is more interesting than the movie itself
I'm following the whole affair for social observation.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
What exactly happening idk anything really
I hate the "It's not our jobs to meet audience expectations" response .. if they want a movie to do well, yes it very much is. It's not our jobs to turn up and watch whatever slop is produced. It's the same with the gaming industry and Ubisoft's response to their losses at the moment
But also, if you’re movie does this bad that looks bad on you as a Director who would want to work with anyone like this
@@_KnuXles well that depends if the artist wanted to make an action adventure film and the audience shows up expecting a comedy that's not the artists fault
In the case of Joker though it is because we were led tony the first movie to expect a much different movie then the one we actually got with the terrible sequel
@@anomalyinc3239 but the question then would be why is the audience expecting a comedy?
And in the case of Joker 2: It's Jokin' Time, as well as your point about the original, the fact that none of the advertising material alluded to it being a musical and that some of the more interesting parts of the trailer are in Arthur's imagination probably let a lot of people down.
I love a film that subverts expectations, but one that respects its audience as it does so. Not just making a bad film and then blaming us
@@_KnuXles I was speaking broadly not necessarily about Joker 2 i just used that as an example and the last part of your comment I wholeheartedly agree with
Subvert expectations by all means as long as it doesn't just abandon the damn story and call the audience stupid for not "getting it" in other words EARN the twist
but most people are dumb and miss the point of good movies....as a schizophrenic I found it relatable and accurate on mh. it was never about the Batman joker....he is not a mastermind....
The only reason the first one worked out is because Todd had oversight on the project with people keeping him in check and a small budget, when someone who prefers making artsy films says he hates superhero movies then MAYBE keeping him on a leash would be the best decision to make.
(Also along with the fact he didn’t like that people empathized with Arthur, which is why he spent the whole runtime of this movie tearing him down and robbing him of what dignity he had left.)
And he also made him kiss a jewish woman lmao
Shows what kind of creature he is.
Kinda makes me wish they didn’t hire him for the sequel if he doesn’t like the source material or it’s fans
And Phillips copied a much more talented director but called it an "homage" (though the plots are near identical, the De Niro cameo makes the lift okay!). No such luxury with the sequel.
Joker 2 is a giant troll by Todd Phillips because he didn’t want to make a sequel in the first place. Then WB made a billion dollars and in response gave him free reign to do whatever he wanted.
However the joke is on all of us as well and now people think it was a middle finger to fans of the original movie as well for “liking the movie wrong”.
It also gets worse every time Todd opens his mouth.
That doesn't make any sense. Why would he nuke his own career to troll fans? I think it's more likely the first movie was a fluke and he's actually just a shit film maker.
@@ViceRidden Todd Philips, the "real" Joker? Just wanna "watch-da-world-burn" maybe? Either way, he should NEVER be trusted with a Big-budget production EVER again.
I hope he meets the real Joker.
Joker 3 Resurrections
"I still know Kung Fu"
I hate these kinds of theories so much. Like, Matrix Resurrection wasn't bad, the director was trolling. Not every movie is Freddie Got Fingered, which is also a shitty movie.
Remember in Pulp Fiction when that crime boss got raped and do you remember that same mob boss devising the most extreme torture for the rapists? Imagine raping any version of Joker (outside this neutered version) and it not ending in some Saw style scheme.
Yeap but let’s be real The Joker would never get the cheeks took lol but if you’re going to do it he has to get his revenge.
Comic book Joker was evil and insane while Arthur's Joker was never a villian he was always a victim. Comic Joker is a predator who makes plans ahead of time if comic Joker had called ths guards names and such he would have knew beforehand they might try something and he would have had a weapon to kill them before hand or he would have already took control of the patients inside the nut house and used them as his army to over power and kill the guards just a few months after he got put in there. Comic Joker is just pure evil and cares about nothing and no one even if he was raped he would have just laughed while it was happening and probably pretended to pass out during in then when he was picked up he would have bitten one of the guards throats out. Or just pretended to pass out then started planning his revenge the moment he got sent back to his cell then used the other inmates to kill all the guards.
How would he do that bro, Arthur fleck is extremely weak, unintelligent, not charismatic at all. He's not the Joker. He just represents the idea of the Joker.
@@titaniumgamer_10 Yes and that's why these Joker flicks are so divisive because Arthur is basically the concept of Joker but not The Joker. So it makes the movies potentially to artsy for DC fans to enjoy.
This version of Joker is no mastermind. He’s just a crazy guy that killed a few unsuspecting people in the first movie.
My friend went to see it and said someone yelled “What the hell?!” when the movie ended 😂
I think that person may have spoken for all of us!
If WB screws up with Portal movie or Thundercats movie, we're going to have to talk with Warner Bros.
I would not have faith in Warner to deliver on either of them, best case scenario is that the Portal movie ends up being mediocre.
And yes, fuck this film.
The moment I heard the words “musical, Lady Gaga”, I instantly knew it was gonna be crap. Not rocket science.
Lady Gaga is good in this though??
Playing himself
Guy: Wtf are you doing??
Joker 2: I’m kickin’ my ass.
Joker 1 " Who did this to you?"
Joker 2 "A MADMAN YOUR HONOR"
🤣
Wow the movie that united everyone lol
Some of the usual types are defending it, you know the types who defend modern Disney? Those.
Those people don't matter 😤
Joker: Folie A Deux is not a clown, it’s an entire circus.
I agree, Deadpool and Wolverine isn't that good. Not as bad as other marvel films recently, but it felt hallow, but yeah at least they gave what the fans wanted. Or bits of it.
Deadpool 3 making more money than Joker is the reason the MCU will never care about making something great...
@@PieroMinayaRojas Yep
I'd never seen the mainstream media, the talking heads, the "elites" be so afraid and worked up over a movie as the first Joker film.
So of course they made the sequel a giant humiliation ritual to denigrate the audience as if to say "you CAN'T actually fight the system, you will never win, this is what happens."
Well, they were right.
Didn't need to rub our face in it, though.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 the fact they were scared of the first film and HAD to do the second like they did is proof they were not in fact right. They are scared of you, of me, of all of us. And they should be.
Small hats, HUGE problems. Wise men once said
Todd Phillips drove the Joker plane into the ground, thinking he was giving us the finger. 🖕
We still have the first movie, and we simply pretend the second never happened. So, Todd gets the finger right back. 🖕
Plus he's likely blacklisted from helming big-budget films now. Hope it was worth it. Watch and enjoy the first movie again, forget about this "Sequel".
@@Gametester110-qf8vs I agree but it's a bit difficult not to remember the "sequel's" ending. *Facepalm.
It shows that Todd Phillip can’t do sequels, especially Hangover 2 and 3 were pretty much a dumpster fire of a sequel track record.
This sequel should not exist.
The sequel doesn't exist in my mind 😂
GOOD ONES should~
Todd Phillips might have written Joker, but he clearly didn't get it
The director was so scared and hurt by all of Hollywood calling the first movie a white supremacist love fest, that he had to do whatever he could to make it lame and gay to make up for it.
Put a chick in it and make her lame and gay
Can we have one film that isn't ruined by a shitty sequel why
'One flute over the cuckoo's nest'
'Taxi Diver'
'Deer Hunter'
'Groundhog day'
'Brazil'
'A scanner darkly'
No making a point because you're right, just wanted to name a couple stand alone films that are great 👍🏼
Dredd
Fight club (there's a sequel book but just don't)
Pulp fiction
@@MIKE_THE_BRUMMIEOldboy and watchmen also to name more
@@thatoneroyalguard7060 niiice
Oh oh!!! Seasonal "nightmare before Christmas"
This reminds me of Matrix 4. The film was bad "on purpose", because WB wanted more money.... hummm maybe, I'm not sure anymore
I like Matrix 4, better than Spiderman no way home
I haven't been this mad about character assassination since...ever
Joker 2 make Black adam look like decent movie .
C'mon, the movie isn't bad is just the narrative and story and as a sequel doesn’t work
No it didn't for it made you realize just how sh*t both films are.
@@JustTooDamnHonest I don't think Black Adam wasn't so bad
@@norm-bb3bb That is your opinion. But I the end the majority did and overall it was bad especially since we know how much of an egotist Dwayne is.
For the record, I never once thought the first Joker movie was the real backstory. I figured it was just another one of the many fake pasts the Joker would make up to confound anyone trying to understand him.
I feel like people were disappointed by this movie because they thought, and wanted to believe, that Arthur Fleck was him. That *_the frigging Joker_* was a sympathetic, damaged individual.
I'm sorry, but that dog was never gonna hunt- that's not at all how the Joker works!
If you want a better courtroom musical just watch Chicago.
So true
@@TheThreatenedSwan its almost the exact same movie. They even become famous and try to leverage it like in this film. First film is taxi drover and king of comedy. This one is chicago.
WELL DONE!
the rian johnson school of directing. just subvert expectations and that somehow magically means it's good.
No one in joker is French, understands French, or makes a reference to French culture at all. So where in the heck did this French title come from? So out of place.
It’s a real title for a real medical condition. Also known as shared delusions, referencing the shared delusion between joker and harley
@@deeskman1549 well wouldn’t the English term for that medical condition be more suiting for a movie that hasn’t anything to do with French culture?
No even in the actual medical field it’s called Folie a Deux meaning: Madness of two…
@@tomsmith5364 yes, in France it is surely a medical term.
Google it- in English it has a number of names that are catered to the English language and not the french language.
A common cold, in France, is called “le rhume” and though it is a proper term for the common cold, you don’t see English speakers in the US referring to their common cold as “le rhume”. It wouldn’t make sense for someone who isn’t of French culture and has nothing to do with French culture to randomly refer to their common cold as such. They’d simply say “I have a cold”.
Folie a deux means madness of two...it is a term in psychology and law
Joker 2 could’ve been a truly amazing sequel. I really wanted a sequel for the first movie. And even though I got it, they completely missed the mark.
Word from insiders is Todd Philips had pretty much 100% creative control on the movie and accepted no requests from corporate to steer the movie's tone more toward the original. He might have an apparent fixation on not wanting there to be a sequel; agreeing to make the movie only if he had final say on everything.
Seems people may have prematurely given him based-ness credit in any case..
Or someone told him to....change the script.
Can't have white men winning in current day, after all.
How likely do you think it is, given that the director is saying this movie was Phoenix's idea, that this whole movie was made just so Phoenix could bang Lady Gaga? I can think of no other reason for this other than the highly likely and reported fact that the director hated his fans with a brimstone-esque burning passion
Who would want to bang lady Gaga? Seriously 😂😂😂
Joaquin is impotent
The 2nd being a piece of shit doesnt ruin the first one imo, ill personally just ignore it and eventually forget it exists, although i will keep in mind what Todd did to us.....
After watching the Fan First Premiere of Joker: Folie Á Deux, my opinions officially went from disappointed upon first viewing to furious. It also soured my opinions on the first film, too. Joker (2019) should have stayed as a one-off film and nothing else.
Just treat it like Highlander or Megamind, it’ll make it easier.
Unless you love Joker more then Batman even Joker 2019 isn't a masterpiece it's a good film but not amazing. Even Phillips first Joker was never comic Joker he was always just a mentally ill dude who was angry at society that isn't who Joker is or ever was. Phillips was never interested in making a Joker film he always wanted to just make dramas about a mentally ill dude using the characters names to sell the films. It works better with part 1 because it acts as an origin so spending time with him being abused leading to him becoming the Joker is more understandable. With part 2 Phillips wanted to revert the character back to basics again so he could again tell another story about a mentally ill dude. I'm open minded to character adaptations I liked Letos Joker he was the same classic Crime boss Joker just modernized with tattoos. So I can be open minded with adaptations but this was aweful they altered the characters so much to the point this character could just be called BOB the crazy clown and be the same movie heck it would probably be better.
They made an arthouse film for precisely two people: Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix. I wonder if Warner Bros knew that when they gave $200 million to Todd.
its really not an arthouse film, it's just garbo big budget schlock posing at arthouse film
What were we suppose to get out of this movie?
Jizz
Maybe they let AI write this script. I know that's a big thing right now where there's AI authors, there's a whole big thing with nanowrimo right now... It would make sense if it was a i generated film.
Not a fan of the first Joker, but this film shows that not every movie need a sequel, let alone carry a franchise.
Are you retarded
This is such a stupid argument.
NOTHING ever NEEDS to be made. NOTHING.
If Joker 2 was a masterpiece, none of you would've complained. The fact that it exists is not the problem. The fact that it's garbage is.
Say it louder for the people making Black Phone 2....
Agreed joker 1 was average but it should’ve been a one in done
Perfect example of not understanding what the joker and Gotham is
Todd did this movie while on Hangover.
I thought I would watch a movie where Arthur Fleck would basked in the attention of his publicity stunt and inciduate the upcoming destruction of Gotham city. Arthur fleck is suppose to love being the bad guy because it Is the only proud moment that he has. But Instead I watched Arthur fleck booty cheeks being violated using the joker persona to escape the consequences of his actions because the writers thought joker is getting the more attention and not enough Arthur fleck
i respect your commitment to not watching marvel stuff until it’s good but i think i speak for most everyone when i say we want to hear your thoughts on new marvel stuff too, like agatha. personally i tapped out of agatha after one and a half eps, so i get not wanting to watch this crap. but i still wanna hear my fav creators (like you) talk about the latest shows and movies and state of marvel overall.
If there's one surefire way to ruin a good joke, it's to overexplain it.
After I saw this I had the feeling that canceling the Velma cartoon was WB form of an apology 😂
2:34 Can we please stop misusing terms? Joker 2019 is not a prequel to Foile A Deux. A prequel is a story that's chronologically set before another story that was written and released earlier. It means the story is going back in time. To give you an example: The Phantom Menace is a prequel to A New Hope, but it is not a prequel to Attack of the Clones, because AOTC was written and released later than TPM. Sorry, but I've seen this (along with the constant misapplying of term "canon" to refer to "continuity") so many times, it's really getting irritating. Prequel is not a synonym for part 1, and canon is not a synonym for continuity.
Looking at the criticisms of this film, the main problem boils down to this film being in conflict with itself as to whether the main character should embrace his role or not which leads to constant retread, back pedaling and inaction. This had to be solved during the writing process of the film, not being the actual movie, no wonder everyone feels like their time was wasted... The first Joker wasn't the pinnacle of story telling, but it was a competent film, why the creator decided he could go all meta with the sequel, when his level of subtlety was like getting hit in the face with a sledgehammer? Did he thought he could bite more than he could chew?
I used to think Joker was a comedy, but now I realize: It's a tragedy.
Bingo bongo baby
This movie really violated my 20 dollars no elevated chairs and two hours of my time like the guards with Arthur fleck
Finally. Didn't care for the original movie myself but I knew you did, so I was itching to see you rip this to pieces.
Also the Arnie joke in the beginning got a good laugh out of me.
Yeah i don't know what people see in the first movie, if the character wasn't named Joker it's just a very boring movie
@@stellviahohenheimI thought it was captivating but I will admit it had horrible pacing and a weird retro filming style, should’ve just made it for modern day. But I can’t deny the second half is incredible entertainment at the least
@@stellviahohenheimno?
I didn’t even think the first film was all that great,yes it was done very well but it was a miserable experience watching it.
Glad to see you back, Nomz! Great review!
I didn't like Joker (2019), but this makes it look like Casablanca in comparison. I genuinely think it's the major studio film of the year.
I believe at the end of the first film when Arthur is laugh and is asked what's so funny and he replies "you wouldn't get it" he was talking about Joker 2, and he's right. We didn't get it.
According to to an in-text citation on that movies trivia section on tvtropes:
"Hostility on the Set: Todd Phillips reportedly wanted to distance himself from DC Studios with this film, openly expressing in interviews that he would not want to make a third Joker movie, and apparently, during production, prioritizing work with Warner Bros. and clashing with DC over decisions with the film, such as rejecting production notes left by the recently-appointed CEO of DC Studios James Gunn, as well as not running test screenings during post-production."
just incase anyones curious folie a deux is a mental health term for when two people basically do a joint psychosis lol
Joker 1 was a pretty good film. If you took out the comicbook stuff like the Waynes and the Joker title it would be a Taxi Driver Lite kind of film imo
It makes perfect sense to me: Joker 1 terrified the powers that be. I believe what happened is that orders came from the top to 'assassinate' Joker 1 because they couldn't risk the masses relating to Arthur. In reality, our elites are waging class warfare on a massive scale, and they don’t want us getting any dangerous ideas.
You'd lose anyway, and they know it.
Hans Moleman said it best. And he was only 31 years old, which really tells us how important it is to represent his reactions correctly. Another 31 years and we wouldn't be able to understand the overwhelming Moleman-ishness (due to the nuclear radiation from the Springfield power plant)
Making it a musical sounds dumb.
In psychology, "Folie a deux" is the more common term for a shared delusion between two people. So it does make sense!
It sounds really pretentious though.
HEY!
We got nothing! What’s the matter with you?! We got NOTHING! The guy at Warner bros that pulled this off knew what he was doing, and he left us with nothing but a big fuck you..
I've said it once in the comments on your post and I'll say it again here: Joker worked great as a one and done movie and if they really wanted to continue the story they actually should've made a fitting follow up and not the superhero equivalent of The Last Jedi but and I can't believe I'm saying it: Even The Last Jedi at least tried, in the loosest sense of the word, to be a proper follow up of The Force Awakens and, from a meta standpoint, at least served as the eye opener for the internet that George Lucas truly WAS the one to do his own creation justice and that the hatred was just a fabrication of the internet. So it at least had that going for it. Joker 2 on the other hand does not.
the sad part is that imo Joaquin and Gaga are good at acting, the problem is the script
Arthur isn’t the Joker?
Fine, then Joker Folie a deux is just Arthur on prison drugs. It’s nothing beautiful, clever, or genius. It’s just some random guy on drugs imagining shit. Sorry Todd, but there is no hidden genius behind this one and there won’t be anyone looking back on it in a few years giving it the praise it deserves.
I have an idea for a great Joker movie. A fourth wall breaking film where Arthur figures out his 1st film was well received, then decides to take revenge out on those who profited from his descent into madness. By conjuring up the idea of a sequel and pitching it to the powers that be, Arthur convinced WB to make Joker 2. Arthur/Joker intentionally make Joker 2 a flop pulling one of the biggest 4th wall breaking jokes of all time on Hollywood. All the other villains, Thanos, Mr paradox, the Harkonens, begin to realize just how dangerous the Joker is.
This film quite literally hands the crown back to Heath who still has the best depiction of the character
I didn't like Joker 2, but if I could rescue something positive from the film, it'd be Lady Gaga's performance, who sang in most of the scenes.
Joker Folder Adios is the movie for the ages! Especially the part where Joker joked so hard that he was joking all over the place! Truly magnificent!
Ah yes, Americans struggling to pronounce a word that isn’t English
The title is actually quite clever and the film is no way the worst thing ever made. Its well made and well acted, the big problem is is a complete right turn from the first film.
we truly live in a society with this one 😞
This reeks of Todd Phillips own farts. This is the man behind the hangover sequels after all.
He was just a man with delusions of grandeur
The real gift here was the visuals of Arkham..... worth it
I'm not planning on seeing this movie anyway.
Is the Joker 2 the joke Fleck was thinking about in the psychiatrist office? The one she wouldn’t get? Lol
It's a good day when I see you upload
31:09 Why were you ever expecting that? This version of the Joker was never a wish fulfillment, was never a master mind, was never even a sadist or plotted any of his acts. He was, even in the first movie described as clumsy, awkward, inappropriate and insecure. There never was any training or practice of any kind to turn him into a revolutionary. It would have been IMMENSELY out of character if he began doing that in this movie.
@@masscreationbroadcasts I agree with some of what you're saying,it's true he wasn't a mastermind from the first movie
They didn't initially intend for a sequel so maybe they just didn't know what to do, I just provide one example of a direction they COULD have gone in
But what you are saying doesn't explain why the whole movie seems to be building towards Arthur embracing the Joker and then it goes absolutely nowhere and falls flat on it's face
Superhero movies have been disappointing me with their stories and characters since the 2000's, so I think they could all benefit from fanservice; better to reference things that are either good or bizarre than play it safe by watering everything down to hopefully achieve relatability.
If Joker 2 wasn't sabotaged to get out of a contract or made to apologize for audiences supposedly taking the wrong message from the first one, then they probably just did what all superhero movies do and assume that only coming up with their own stuff can succeed. Arthur wasn't meant to be a supervillain, so make him fail at everything and admit he's in over his head and that realism will theoretically improve the movie; his death is even similar to Jeffery Dahmer's and people loved that series.
GO WATCH TRANSFORMERS ONE INSTEAD
1:18 The French word "deux" sounds like the English word "duh".
"un, deux, troix, ..." It means "two".
"Folie à deux" is found in English dictionaries, though.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary: « the presence of the same or similar delusional ideas in two persons closely associated with one another»
"You wouldn't get it."
The real joke was their hubris....is it a comedy or a tragedy
I heard it was the biggest pile of 💩 ever.
@@ganzyjam2602 it was definitely up there
Long time fan. Great video, appreciate the not holding back. Truth has got to be told
"Joker 2: Folly's Adiéu" feels more appropriate.
You have put the biggest smile on my face with this Joker 2 video
the movie doesn't suck, it's just not what people wanted to see. This isn''t the DC comic book villain joker. This is what would happen if someone in real life tried to play the joker. This movie is calling out the fans of the joker. This movie is not meant to glorify or glamorize the joker or his crimes. it's supposed to remind us that Arthur Fleck is mentally ill, unstable, and vulnerable. He's not a super villain. He's just a regular person who is in a bad situation and is going to pay for his crimes.
Meta intentions doesn’t change blatant character assassination. Yes, Arthur is mentally ill. No one questioned that. The first film made that clear, and as such we knew we would get a very different Joker than the comic book version. What that doesn’t change is that Arthur embraced the Joker persona by the end of the first movie, his venting of pain was through the Joker, and he felt as his best as the Joker. Yet the second film wants us to just think none of that ever happened or that one bad night would cause him to just give up when he has had nothing but abuse his entire life.
Todd Phillips' Joker, Art the Clown is coming for you
That overrated dogwater series? 😢😂
Maybe the child is going to be the Joker this universe's Batman fights. It would explain why they didn't let the Joker completely Joker-out and why they killed him in the end. They would want to save all of that for the Batman film.
2024 - The Year in which Nerds / Nerdettes couldn't HAVE SHIT NOT SUCK!
I don't know why we couldn't have gotten this movie's version of Mad Love instead. Maybe that wouldn't have been as original of an idea, but it likely would've been a better one than whatever ideas they tried to execute in the actual movie. 🤒
Same guy who wrote Napoleon is writing Gladiator II, so yeah, it's doomed and I'm glad I passed on Joker 2. It didn't need a sequel.
@@TheAutistWhisperer people were welcoming the idea of a sequel so I don't care for this revisionist idea that people didn't want it
Although the first Joker worked fine as a standalone
As for Gladiator apparently early reviews are really positive which is a surprise but as i said I'll reserve judgment
Why ever have a Gladiator 2? Both Main characters died at the end of the first Gladiator
Joker 2 is more disappointing than the time my dog tried to talk.
"All that for this." 😮💨
you know what moive was also a musical that was successful? South Park Bigger, Longer & Uncut. This movie should of been a banger. I dunno if its the premise or the musical but the 1st one I guess was to the point without muscial scenes tho the OST they used was good when did.
Better keep your director on A leash, or put em down Warner Brothers. 🐕🦺
Apparently he’s not even supposed to be the real Joker !!! I was like “ Huh!?’
I mean the writing quality in the first one was just mid anyway
Taxi Driver 2.0
People are so EASY~
I think they are going to make his son the next joker. It's set up perfect for his son to become joker vs batman
Great movie. I just got out of the movie and I think all the negative hoo hah must be Hollywood politics because it was the best movie of the year.... of several years! I loved the music representing feelings and it was a very emotional film. I totally got it. From beginning to end... brilliantly put together. What is with people today? Does anyone remember what a good film is? You won't find it on Netflix, Prime, Hulu or at the movies anymore. This was wonderful. Remember that word... wonderful?
the music is the fantasy he shares with Lee... the Folie a deux. and i assume she bribed the guards to go to the whole
I knew this was gonna be crap, when I heard Harley Quinn was gonna be in it....