CAN YOU SEE THE HORSEHEAD NEBULA IN A TELESCOPE?
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- I went to a relatively dark sky site, Bortle 3, SQM 21, and used a 10" Dobsonian and a 12" Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope under clear skies to see if I could see the difficult to see Horsehead Nebula, IC 434, in a telescope. The short answer is yes, you can see it, but the long answer is explained in this video. I will explain what you need to do in order to see the Horsehead Nebula in a telescope.
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I just started astronomy this past December, with a 10 inch Dobsonian, and a 102mm refractor for a grab and go. Thank you for these videos, i subscribed, and am enjoying your content! Im working my way through the Messier list, as my first major astronomy goal. My 10 inch Dob is more than enough right now, but my future dteam telescope is a 12" SC! You having both shows me what is possible! Thank you again! Clear skies!
Thank you. Your comments made my day today.
Oh, boy. Dark, cold nights! How I remember glorious observations through my Meade 10”. 🔭
Yes, one of the draw backs of looking at glorious Orion is those cold winter nights.
The Horse Head has converted some visual astronomers to astrophotography. But for the rest of us, visual and photography are both exciting❤
Herschell's telescope was a speculum mirror, the reflectivity was not that great. Had they had modern reflective coatings they might have seen it, but they also didnt have HB filters. I have seen it pretty well in large 18-28" scopes, you can see the shape pretty well, but yeah, it is a tough target, and the glare of alnitak can make it difficult, so it is best to have a narrower field, which many of the big scopes can inherently have. 32 and 40mm plossls have their use here, rather than the 31 terminagler or 35 and 41 panoptics.
Larger exit pupils are needed to get a good view. Being limited to 3.2mm with your 32mm in the 12", barely seeing a notch sounds about right. Had you tried the 32mm in the dob it would have been better than the 24mm, but this is where 10s and 12s are not really big enough, as to see the shape clearly requires the same large exit pupil at a higher magnification. The first time i could clearly see the shape was in an 18" from 20 years ago dark skies at 6000' elevation, mt laguna ca
Love your enthusiasm Tsula especially on the Orion Nebula.
Thanks, Martin.
Yay! You did it! Ed Ting showed how the Horsehead is so difficult because it’s black on black.
I'm going to keep looking at it this winter to try to see it in my 10" Dobsonian and I hope get a better look at it.
@@msroper5287 Thank you for all your excellent advice. I have followed it exactly and made a follow up video about the Horsehead with my 10" Dobsonian. Wearing that damn patch was very difficult and I couldn't make it for three hours but I wore it all the way up to the point of looking at NGC 2024 with my non-dominant eye which was very obvioys even without a filter and then looked at IC434 again after locating it with my non-dominant eye and then on to HH with my dominant eye and you will have to wait until I publish the new video next week to find out what happened next. Stay tuned!
Tsula, you are a gem. Enjoy those skies. Here in Florida, my bortle is 6-7. Closest dark area is 2-2.5 hours away and you need to reserve a space at least a month ahead. warm here but way too much light.
Tim: Thank you so much. I am taking advantage of the dark skies as much as I can because it's only a matter of time before my place in Montana is Bortle 4 due to intense development going on. The cold has not deterred people from moving to MT. I go back and forth from MT to CA and in CA I also have to drive two hours to get to dark skies, a Bortle 3 and there are many challenges going there but at least it's dark.
im always so impressed with your charisma, and candid approach to astronomy. Thank you for taking the time to share with us your adventures. Would you mind doing a video on your sketch work? I would also love to see a video on the female astronomers which have clearly been a point of inspiration for you.
Thank you so much. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give it a shot.
Nice to see you here again! I remember how great it was when I first saw Orion Nebula in my 6" Newtonian back 25 years ago. I would always collimate it as perfectly as possible every session. The whole thing glowing and Trapezium was so sharp and clear. That view really thrilled and inspired me to see more.
Thanks! I too remember vividly the first time I saw Orion in a 6" telescope and nearly fainted.
Pill identity Orion nebula 03 filter and a 12"dob, beautiful !!!
There is nothing like looking at Orion Nebula in a large telescope!
Glad you were able to see it. I've tried many times before but I've only seen it once. I used a 10" Newt, no filters but I was at a fairly dark observing site. Took a while staring into the eyepiece and using averted vision but I was able to just make out the nebulosity and a dark partition. Never saw it again afterwards but after seeing your video I might give it another try. Clear skies!
Thanks. I'm going to try again to see it better next time there is no moon and the transparency is good to see if I can see it better.
As usual, a great effort on your part in what looked like very cold weather, Tusla. But hooray for clear skies! I wouldn't even attempt this with my little 6" Dob, but I was fortunate enough to be able to image the Horsehead and Flame nebulae for the very first time in the beginning of February. That was exciting for me. So very sorry to hear about the nearby town getting built up -- and lit up. It's really getting tougher and tougher to find very dark skies without going to the middle of nowhere.
Thanks, Greg. Good job on the Horsehead. It's sad to see the dark skies vanishing but I will always make an effort to find dark skies even if it is in the middle of nowhere.
Love your videos. Nice to see people enjoying visual astronomy!
Thank you! I'm glad there are other visual astronomers still out there.
Very nice. I hope to some time be able to go to a dark site and visually explore :D
Thank you. It's definitely worth it to make the effort to get out to a dark sky site.
Love the video and your excitement. thanks for dragging out your big gear in cold weather.
Thanks, Craig. I got them out just before a big storm moved through. So, I'm glad I took the time and enjoyed the clear skies with my big scopes because since then it's been nothing but shoveling.
I appreciate your efforts here and your honesty about what's realistic to expect to see. Just stumbled on your channel a couple days ago. I'm really enjoying your content.
Thank you!
That looks like cold weather indeed! (I wear gloves with the fingertips cut out) - I can't see anything visually with Ha and OIII filters (works wonderfully in monochrome imaging) - thank you (from southern Australia)
It gets so cold here sometimes that I cannot explose any skin or I might get frostbite. I use hand warmers inside my gloves and that helps. Ms. Roper says I didn't dark adapt long enough and next winter when I try again to dark adapt for several hours! I can't think about winter right now but when Orion comes back I'm going to try again with more dark adaptation.
Another great video Tsula! Interesting comparison between 10" and 12" scopes. I like the fact that (while I'm here, I'll absorb some M42 greatness) I do the same, always have to take it in if I have all my gear set-up. Also don't dis-credit your sketches, I personally think they are very good! Always gives me a great perspective of what the object "actually" looks like. Clear skies...
Thanks, Nate. That's very kind of you to say about my sketches and yes, one simply cannot pass up an opportunity to look at M42!
Love the 10”-12” comparison. I am fascinated by the differences between aperture, focal length and scope design and the impact on the image of each.
This target is a tough one. Thanks for braving the cold to produce another great video.
Chris
Thanks, Chris. I am curious about the impact of focal length also and wonder why William Herschel made his telescopes so long. I will need to do some more research on this.
@@tsulasbigadventures Grinding (or casting) a parabolic mirror (which is what you need for a short focal length) is hard unless you do it with computers - which is what, I'm pretty sure, is done nowadays, not only for optical equipment but also musical instruments (explaining their significant cheapness as compared to decades ago). You can rub two glass blanks against one another, with some grit between them, and easily produce a spherical mirror (of F/8 or more) but hand correction is required for anything shorter, and that's not easy when you're dealing with something weighing hundreds or thousands of pounds. You have to give it to the engineers who built Mt. Palomar.
@@waltergold3457 I see. Well, George Ellery who built the Palomar Observatory was a graduate of MIT and founded Caltech. So, I guess he was a pretty smart guy. I love looking at gigantic old telescopes at observatories. It's amazing to me that they could make those huge instruments back then. I would love to go to the Herschel Museum one day but the telescope they have is merely a replica of one of William Herschel's telescopes.
@@tsulasbigadventures The Palomar mirror was honeycombed - otherwise it would've been too massive to aim accurately - and transported to the observatory by railroad. And about old observatories - the Yerkes one in Chicago, home of the world's largest refracting telescope, was funded by Charles Yerkes, a disreputable character who's the subject of three Theodore Dreiser novels and who learned to love astronomy in prison (I've read THE FINANCIER, which I think is exceeded only by Dreiser's splendid (and obsessively detailed) SISTER CARRIE, the original "star is born" story - read that one if you haven't and would like to take a time-machine back to 1880s Manhattan).
PS: I lost you with the Irish Rovers' COME IN - can I win you back with their BONNIE DUNDEE, whose lyrics I know by heart and whose performance culminates with a virtuoso instrumental interlude? The music of the song, centuries old, is perhaps the most famous written by a woman - a lady aristocrat of Scotland - apart from Christina Macpherson (the greatest one-hit wonder in musical history) and her WALTZING MATILDA.
ua-cam.com/video/q7rieQhx8wY/v-deo.html (Irish Rovers, BONNIE DUNDEE)
@@waltergold3457 Better, much better! I knew Yerkes was disreputable but I didn't know he went to prison. I will have to read Dreiser's book about him. I think I read American Tragedy a long time ago.
You will do better with a 40mm than a 32mm, or even better with a 2" filter on a 55/56mm plossl when using an SCT. The 32mm on the dob would be better than the 24 as well. It gets smaller but ic434 gets brighter. Maybe even try a 40mm
Great. Video Tsula ! Can you do a video on how too best see VENUS through a telescope? It sure tests your magnification and your aberations Clear Skys Eric
Eric: Thank you! I'm looking at Venus right now out the window but it's -16F (-26.7C) and I cannot bring myself to go outside. I can try to make such a video. Last year I was able to see Venus in a quarter phase, if I recall correctly, just with binoculars. It's a tough planet to see well but I will see what I can do.
I like the way you say “Ploo-toe” by the way❤
I like the Dark Skies beanie :-)
Thanks. I got it from the Dark Skies Assocation.
The first time I saw the horsehead was in an 18" scope with an Hb filter
Hi Tsula,
thanks for the wonderful video. : )
What Bortle-Scale do you have on your spotting point?
I live in a Bortle 4 Area...and I need very clear nights, to observe DSO.
But one thing is great here...at Midnight the Village switches off the Streetlamps.
CS
Thank you! I used Xasteria to find out the Bortle for my house and it says the same thing if I look up my location on the lightpollutionmap.info. They both say Bortle 3. I think the SQM is more accurate and I think 21 is correct since the scale only goes from 17 to 22.
I wish the lights would be turned off at Midnight here. That would be fantastic. If I point my telescope west toward the nearby town I cannot see a thing. I tried to look at something in Cassiopeia the other night and I saw nothing at all. The town is a Bortle 5.
@@tsulasbigadventures Yes. If you think on Wilhem Herschel or Charles Messier, they lived in 17th/18th century. No Electricity, only fires, candels and oil lamps. I guess, that they had at this time Bortle1 or 2 at home!!! What a dream!!! ; )))
Even with small telescopes and binos you could find a lot of DSOs.
Imagine you could travel back in time, with a 8" Dobson and spend a night with them with stargazing....AMAZING!!!!
CS and Bortle 1 for all
😉
@@bingobongo8309 Yeah! That would be really cool to go star gazing with William Herschel!
@@tsulasbigadventures I remember a scene from the excellent HBO series ROME in which, the night before a battle, the otherwise supremely arrogant Mark Antony, lying on the ground with a friend and gazing at the sky, wonders humbly: "The stars - what are they?"
I tried to observe the Horsehead with a Celestron 11" SCT and various filters over 2 winters. Never saw it at all. Then I stuck a Hyperstar on it and with a 10-second exposure there it was clear as day. I never looked through an eyepiece since - which is a shame as I have binoviewers and therefore 2 of just about every eyepiece available.
I would rather see it than look at a picture of it.
@@msroper5287 Ms Roper, thank you for all these suggestions. Right now by the time it gets dark, Orion is too low. So, I will have to try out your suggestions next winter. I am so jealous you got to observe at the Lick Observatory. They will only allow visitors to tour the observatory now. I toured it years ago in the 90s but now you need a ticket in advance and it's far more light polluted now than it was in the 90s due to development in Morgan Hill. Thanks again.
Great video! What O III filter ate you using?
Thank you. My OIII Filter is made by Orion. Since making this video I have purchased some additional filters and been testing them out.
@@msroper5287 Thank you very much. I read most of your blog post about the Horsehead project. It was very interesting and very informative. I went out and bought a Lumicon H-beta filter based on your advice and in my upcoming video, I first used an UHC filter and then an H-beta. Next week you can find out the results. And I probably should have credited you with leading the way for me with your excellent advice which I have followed precisely. I could NOT wear that patch for three hours. Other than that I followed your advice and I hope you don't mind but I did mention you and your HH project in the upcoming video. Stay tuned!
Much better chance with a UHC than an OIII since ic434 is a hydrogen nebula and UHC passes OIII and Hb. An Hb filter is much better
I watched your test of the Orion Mak yesterday and I saw that you said that M51 can be seen with the naked eye in your B3 sky and I was like really??? I got to try to observe it with my 50x12 Nikon binoculars under my Bortle 8-9 sky and damn, I was looking straight to it for minutes near zenith and damn, not a smudge!!! :'( Light pollution sucks...
Andre: M51 is hard as hell to see naked eye maybe not as hard as M33 but difficult. I was actually trying to look at M51 the night I made this video and I think I saw a faint smudge. Maybe I was imagining but it seemed like I could see it. If I put my binoculars on it and then look where I know it should be that helps. But yes, it would be incredibly difficult to see in a Bortle 8-9. It breaks my heart to see the dark skies here vanishing. No one in the town seems to have ever heard of light pollution. Sad.
Andre: I have been thinking about this some more. Are you sure I said M51 and not M31? M51 is hard. M31 is relatively easy in a dark sky site. Whatever it was it must not have been in the western part of the sky because I can't see a thing in that direction. I am going to go back and look at that video again. Now I'm curious.
@@tsulasbigadventures found it, yep you said its a naked eye object from bortle 3, I was amazed by that info! ua-cam.com/video/zzcAurE3Wc8/v-deo.html
I imaged it from my crappy sky... came out better than I expected... still learnign how to get a better image out of my new net 6" f4...
@@AndreH3d Bad light pollution can be overcome with filters and extensive processing but nothing you can do to improve your visual experience except make a special trip to a dark sky site.
No disrespect but I traded in all my old rigs for an Equinox2,I have lovely pictures of horse hed un processed form just a 7 minute stack. you would even get awesome saveable memories with a dslr STRAPPED TO YOUR RIGS
That's not the point of this video. The point is to attempt to get a live view of it. You can get pictures of the Horsehead incredibly easily with even a smartphone camera and a tripod. But that's not you actually looking at it and seeing it with your own eyes
I tried from my backyard in the city with my 200mm dob.
😂 Oh well, at least i tried.
Could you at least see NGC 2024 or IC434? It's hard to see dark nebulae period but nearly impossible with even a hint of light pollution.
@@tsulasbigadventures I am a beginner, so I have to look them up.
I bought my telescope in December.
Until now I looked at Jupiter, the Moon of course, Uranus, Saturn, M31, Pleiades, Double cluster NGC 869 and NGC 884, and the Orion Nebula. Oh, and lots of clouds.
So, still much to discover.
@@Richard-bq3ni Oh, OK. Well, good for you for even trying such a difficult object. The Double Cluster-- so beautiful. So many great things to look at. Well, you are off to a great start. Clear skies!
What kind of camera do you use for your dobsonian?
I only use my Sony Mirrorless camera for any kind of planetary imaging or even astrophotography. I have put my Sony A6600 on the Dobsonian to get some video of the planets and the moon. One time I tried to film Cor Caroli but it moves quickly out of the frame on a Dobsonian.
What about the California nebula?
I've seen it before using a filter. Have you seen it?
No, but I hope I do one day
@@klttrll Use a filter and use low magnification because it's very big.
I'll also gotten beautiful views of Neptune !!!
Nice. Neptune will be at opposition on September 19, 2023
@@tsulasbigadventures I am looking forward to seeing Neptune in September !!!
@@michaeloppenheimer2582 And check out Saturn at opposition on August 26!.
I will certainly check out saturn on august twenty sixth, We are also preparing for next year's total solarly eclipse here, Certainly looking forward to the next observing season.
And I will be checking out Neptune.
Clear skies everyone.