PSA AK-101 Accuracy (Precision) Test
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Testing the precision of the Palmetto State Armory AK-101 at 100 yards using a variety of rounds.
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
1:41 - 69 gr. Sierra Tipped Match King
2:54 - 69 gr. Barnes Match Burner
3:37 - 75 gr. Hornady Superformance Match
4:32 - 77 gr. Sierra Tipped Match King
5:30 - Target review
9:12 - 75. gr Hornady Superformance Match retest
10:42 - Retest target review
11:57 - Discussion
17:18 - Conclusion
Links
All my PSA AK-101 videos: • PSA AK-101 - Спорт
Excellent presentation and discussion of findings as always!
Thank you!
I'm sharing all your videos you deserve more subscribers
Thank you!
As to be expected another excellent video! First, sorry you receive silly comments about people shooting sub MOA with Tula at 1000 meters. Second, I think your test was well done - I don't really see a way it could be done any better and you gave the rifle a fair chance.
With that said, I would like to see a future follow up test with other ammo to see if there's a particular load these rifles prefer or if the lack of precision is simply inherent of your rifle. I will be testing the same rifle (Although fixed stock) with some 55 grain loads at 50 yards soon and will see if my results are similar. Thanks and take care.
Thank you, glad you liked the video! The silly comments I get on precision are usually pretty amusing. The Tula comment I brought up was probably the most extreme one, but a lot of the "somewhat" more believable comments do make it hard to differentiate between someone who has an actual good idea for something I can try or fix compared to basically fuddlore.
I'd be interested to know how the 55 gr. does in your rifle. I'll be doing the same next time I take this rifle out as some other commenters suggested the same, as well as some other changes which I'll see if they make any difference.
2:59 satisfying sounds of the load. Nicely done too.
Great video bro.
According to Soviet standard everything that above 15cm on 100 meters is no go, most AK74s can do 10cm when new.
Thank you for test, you saved me money on bad purchase.
Yes thank you for the video
Great. Video.
Love the in depth accuracy testing. Curious to see how it performs with standard ammunition. Personally have an AK-102 from palmetto and haven’t grouped it yet. I’ll be doing some accuracy testing as well in the near future.
Have the same handguard problem on my example. I think it’s due to the retainer cut not being far enough back (have to do measurements) my handguard will flex up and down with light pressure leading me to think it’s not the size of the retainer but just not enough pressure being put on the HG to keep it in place.
I know you didn’t rest on the handguard but I’m still curious if the fitment might have had an impact on harmonics.
It could be. That's a good idea, I'll try testing it w/o the handguard to see if it fares differently.
As always, great presentation. Disappointing results from the PSA, was hoping for a little better groupings.
Thanks! I was hoping for quite a bit better groups too, groups >4 MOA in particular tend to bother me.
@@Feldmutze Super interesting. 3.27 MOA with decent ammo from an USA-made AK doesn't sound shocking. Just surprised PSA isn't held to higher standards for AKs, even their lowest-end AR would get returned (or should) if it grouped over 3".
Great video man. I can’t say I expected better accuracy out of it. I’d be interested just to see the wear after a couple thousand. I know Rob has a few through his 102 supressed and likes it
Rob is a paid schill for PSA products and his statements should be taken with massive amounts of salt.
@@ThePlatinumsquirrel is he really? I’ve seen some positive and negative things about PSA from him but where did you get your facts about it? I’m genuinely curious if there’s evidence as most people hold him in high regard.
@@SlaterRecreational all of his rifles are sent to him for free, he is part of a dealer program where he is paid for his reviews for their guns as he invoices for them. The only people he will shit on are those that don't pay. Standard stuff in this industry. It's how you get people like GT saying they'd rather have a PSA then an FN.
This is just experience from the firearms industry. Very few guntubers don't do this, it's how they make a career out of their content when youtube won't monetize.
@@ThePlatinumsquirrel why isn’t Rob posting more videos then? You think he’d be rolling in the PSA content but he isn’t. With that logic, every single positive torture test he’s done was paid for by the company? I dislike PSA but you’re pulling things out from no where.
@@SlaterRecreationalthe fact of the matter is anyone who gives a somewhat positive review of psa aks is a shill to a surprising number of ak guys, they do this to justify the fact they paid far to much for an import.
Good video. In my Engineering opinion, the reason why some a k's Struggle with accuracy is because of the front sight block. It is offset from the barrel and interferes with barrel harmonics. I removed the front site block from mine and had much better accuracy. However, if you do this, you will require a combo gaspport or have to go without iron sights.
Sorry to hear about this experience. Would be interested to see this test repeated with the WBP 5.56. It seems to be one of the best 5.56 options on the market right now
I heard wbp is in the middle when it comes to 556 ak , something with the firing pin not able to withstand high round count before replacing
Great video...I so want PSA's to be more solid rifles but I've sold all of mine except my AK 105 and that had to be sent back as the groups opened up to over 6 MOA after about 600 rounds. As for 556 AKs and accuracy, my Beryl isn't the normal example because of the low twist rate but it loves 55 grain. Hornady Frontier 223 Hollow Point Match has no problem shooting 1.5 MOA and under 5 round groups with just an Eotech and 3x magnifier. AAC 55 grain 556 can do 2 MOA groups fairly consistently. My Zastava M90 shot 1.75 MOA on its best day with Fiocchi 223 match.
Anecdotally speaking, the group sizes on my M70 became less erratic after stoning the brake down so it sat tighter on the front sight post (ie no play)
I’ve been accuracy testing my FB Radom Beryl (5.56) for the last few months and it averages between 2-3 MOA with most ammunition. These being mostly M193, M855 and a few 69 and 75 grain weights. The 69 and 75 didn’t outperform the 55 and 62 grain loads so I haven’t tested them further. 3 shot groups for those were about 1.75-2 MOA.
The M193 and M855 will group 5 shots in 2 1/8”- 2 1/2” on the high end. Pretty regularly. Flyers do occur, however and the one shot sometimes opens the groups up. Which is typically around 3 1/8”- 3 1/2”. 3 shot groups can be quite small, with most ranging to 1 1/2”- 2” at 100 yards. I managed to put 4 shots in a 7/8” group last Saturday(but the fifth shot opened up to 4 3/4”).
The ammunition used were GGG M193(the most accurate thus far), Winchester M193(very inconsistent, possibly a bad batch), Winchester M855(which shot very well), and the loads for the 69 and 75 I honestly can’t recall as they were a friends. 1,030 rounds through the rifle and no malfunctions of any kind. Love the rifle, would highly recommend if someone wants a duty grade 5.56 AK.
You're not going to get good groups with 69, 75 grain with a slow 1:9 twist barrel.
@@rox3725 correct, hence why I didn’t bother to do more testing. All things considered, they didn’t do horrible, however. Just not worth the price for this barrel.
With my PSAK74 I've noticed a wide shot dispersion. I think it's just how PSA does their barrels.
The fliers on aks are probably due to the tight pressure points from handguard and gas tube clamping on the already whipy barrel. And the handguard and gas tube are tight but loose enough to change how they whip the barrel every now and then. If I had to guess at least
That's a good point, I could very well see that being the case. For a while I thought it might be some slight difference in how the first round is chambered by hand vs. the action cycling itself (though since the flyer isn't always the first shot it shouldn't be that), but the pressure points like you mentioned would make a lot more sense.
So a freefloat hand guard would noticeably help with accuracy? I am considering putting an occam defense hand guard on my 101, but wasn't experienced enough to know if switching for a freefloat to improve accuracy was a myth or not
@@isaacrhodes4617 potentially, the AK barrel whips a lot relative to other rifles. Sometimes adding support (non free floating) to a barrel can actually improve accuracy as it will cut down the whip. But the AK barrel has very specific pressure points. Meaning it's not really being braced, just interrupted.
Tldr: maybe a free-float handguard could help accuracy, at least cutting down on random fliers hopefully. If nothing else, a free floated barrel won't give you POI shifts when bracing your handguard differently
@@BansheeVi thank you for the insight man!
My experience with my SLR106FR, which I’m pretty sure is what PSA cloned is generally in the 3” range plus or minus a bit. I’ve never fed it match ammunition, but m855 and m193 have produced that for me. The PSA is definitely exhibiting accuracy issues. I remember when we emailed a bit about 5.45 gun accuracy the muzzle device was a factor. Maybe that is a possibility again? Otherwise I’d imagine perhaps something is pressed on too tightly or too loosely on the barrel or the barrel in the trunnion? It’s hard to say.
I was thinking it could be the muzzle device again which is why I kept the original PSA brake on for the first batch of tests and only switched to the AR-M1 at the end. It could potentially be that PSA's own brake is inducing some dispersion itself though, I haven't tested shooting this with just a bare muzzle yet but I'm thinking of doing that myself to see if it does any different.
I wonder if this could have anything to do with PSA not using swell necks on their rifles? All of that flex on the trunnion.
Curious what it would do with some 55gr?
About AK accuracy my WASR 10-63 does about 4-6 inch groups with tulammo, golden tiger, and red army standard at 100M but after the barrel heats up the group shifts 3-4 inches to the right.
I did try some PSA Sabre ammo shot the same out of it and haven't had any problems yet and I did turn a groundhog inside out while it was in a soybean field.
55 gr. would be worth an attempt. I don't have any match/precision 55 gr. loadings but next time I take this AK-101 out I'll just do an informal test with some PPU 55 gr. and M193 that I have, and if it ends up shooting any better I might make a follow-up video or post a pinned comment here.
you should watch ammo tests on some of that stuff, red army standard and tula are pretty inconsistent with their velocities. Good chance your rifle is more accurate than the ammo is allowing. Barnaul is the best import stuff but it's hard to find now, haven't tried any of PSA's x39 or seen tests on it yet.
I'm going to have to scope mine up now and see my groupings. It's done well on steel with irons only for me, it rings them consistently but they are 8 inch plates. When I test I try to be as fair as possible and let things cool as if zeroing. Try 55gr I have had great experience with it with irons.
I'd be interested to know how yours groups! I received a few other comments recommending 55 gr. as well, so I'm planning to test that next time I take this out.
I would try that without muzzle brake... I had a case with cheap muzzle brake and bear creek upper 6.5 grendel more than 8 inches. I was so pissed, months later without brake and Hornady black match ammo shooting sub moa to 1.5 moa several groups...
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try some groups with just the bare muzzle to see if it fares differently.
Check the muzzle crown. I had a Saiga that did the same thing. Had a gunsmith recrown. And big difference. We both thought the crown didn’t look terrible. But it sure made a difference.
I checked the crown but it's in perfect condition. The whole barrel looks good actually too, so I'm thinking it might be something with the trunnion.
Unfortunate results but not surprising given the qc history of psa.
Have you narrowed down what you think the issue is? Like whether or not it's a problem with the front sight, barrel, or an issue with the trunion?
It's definitely not the front sight since I was using a scope, but I'm not sure if the issue is something with the barrel itself or the trunnion, though I'm leaning more towards it being an issue with the trunnion given the very poor riveting PSA did on here.
I wonder if a better trigger would help at all.
Good video.
Thanks! A better trigger would help to an extent but even with a normal trigger in here I was still able to fire each shot consistently, at least from my end. I think there's an issue with the barrel or front trunnion on this currently, though I'll do more testing to see if I can isolate anything.
@@Feldmutze
Thank you.
I’ll be watching.
Seems like their accuracy varies rifle to rifle. Two friends of mine each have a psa 101, at around 50 yards, one shoots consistent 2 to 4ish moa depending on the ammo, other friend’s rifle shoots 2 to 6ish regardless of what ammo is used. I think his already sending it back to see if they can barrel swap it and fix the other issues his had with it (extractor issues and broken gas tube lever)
That's quite a big difference in dispersion, thanks for sharing those results! It's good to know how other rifles are doing.
@@Feldmutzehappy to contribute. I don’t know if it’s relevant but I have a wbp 556 parts kit build, its accuracy is 2.3 moa to 3.6 moa. If I remember right I was using X-tac pmc 55 grain at 25 yards and 50ish. Also 2.8 to 5 moa with some old wolf gold 55 grain at the same range at 50 yards (I know that was the wolf but still might be helpful to someone)
Edit: sorry trying to remember this all from the beginning of the year so might be mixed up a bit.
Please, always state shot count for groups. Hornady ran tests, 10 shot groups are on average 30% bigger than 5 shot groups. 4 moa turns into 5.2, 6 moa - 7.8 moa...
Search for "hornady podcast ep.50" and ep.52. Highly recommend it! Lots of statistics on their extensive tests. For example 5 shot groups can be 40-50% bigger or smaller than average, 10 shot groups +/- 30-40%, 20 shot groups +/- 20-25%.
@@tiortedrootsky alright, I remember the groupings for both were 5 rounds for each
Great video! Thank you , super job .This was confirmed by my tests from other AK .
It's phenomenal and I can't explain it, but in my tests, the cartridges from the Barnaul factory showed the best result! In a steel sleeve !
rifle Vepr 223 rem (Molot Russia) 16" barrel
9" twist . Cartridges Hornadi 52 gr , Saco 55 gr and Sierra 62 gr , all of them showed extremely poor results .
All the bullets flew badly 👎
Showed the best result , cheap ( before the ban ) Barnaul! and much better !
About the same thing happened with Saiga 7.62"39!
I'm in shock, I can 't explain it .
It would be interesting to try Barnaul 223 rem 62 gr from your AK-101 .
Thanks for watching and sharing those results! That's surprising that Barnaul shot so well. I would like to test Barnaul from this AK-101 as well but unfortunately I shot the rest of my Barnaul .223 quite a while ago and it has become extremely difficult to find here in the US now.
@@Feldmutze Unfortunately, it's the same story in Germany! Ban on weapons and ammunition from the Russian Federation .
I know the PSA AAC makes 5.56 nato 77g in a steel sleeve! Maybe it's to love their AK-101💘
@kirillrassine4504 I've been thinking of trying some of their AAC ammo to group it, though it probably won't do well in this rifle. I think there's just something wrong with this rifle's trunnion most likely. I shot some more groups with it yesterday using 55 gr. like some other commenters suggested, as well as some other tests, and still ended up with every group being between 4.7 - 6 MOA, even worse than a lot of the groups I did in this video.
@@Feldmutze AKs is not a sniper weapon, but 5-6 MOA, this is already abnormal !
In the Sovet Army in the Manuals, ithat should not exceed 15 centimeters per 100 meters , if there was more AK , it was recognized as not working . That's about 5 MOA!
And this is an AKM 7.62"39 with an old corrosive cartridge.
It 's a pity that it happened like this ! Perhaps the PSA will take it for repair or replacement?
@@kirillrassine4504 PSA has a good warranty so I should be able to have this rebarreled. But, for the time being I'm going to stick with the rifle as it's working reliably and I'm moreso interested in how the rifle wears as I shoot it over time. I've heard a lot of claims that the PSA AKs have long-term reliability issues (but also some claims that they might've fixed that now) that I'm curious about verifying for myself. If/when this rifle starts having reliability issues I'll send it in to PSA and, depending on how major the fixes are at that time, I might re-test precision upon it's return.
Is that the ''AK-9'' handguard? how much did you get it for?
Yes, I'm using an AK-9 handguard. I picked it up for $180 from RussianSurplus.
@@Feldmutze i was really hoping thats not where that thing came from and you found an american clone for cheap lol
Why's that? I've had good luck buying parts with RussianSurplus thus far and the AK-9 handguard seems fairly comparable priced to everywhere else I checked, albeit still expensive.
@average7.62enjoyer why would anyone want a clone when you can get the real deal? Besides price of course, but you get what you pay for
@@jasonkerbs806 you get what you pay for isn't really true for AK stuff, bakelite mags are functionally the same or worse than modern polymer mags but they're legitimately 10x the price.
3-4 moa from my 101 depending on the ammo.
How was the scope mounted
ADM scope mount on a Midwest Industries side mount
my psa ak74 was accurate when i got it 2 years ago, about 2000 rounds later its throwing rounds all over so i sent it back (they said there was an issue with the front trunnion rivet causing the accuracy issues) and currently it can do under 2 moa with 5.45 7n6 ammo from 1979, thing feels like a laser now, im wondering if there is some real bad QC issue with your rifle in its current state, its obviously not you if you put 10 holes on top of each other with that hk
I'm currently leaning towards it probably being a QC issue with this rifle too, but some other commenters had some good ideas for additional testing so I'll test a few more things to see if that changes anything.
Made up story. PSA dominates chumps like you
PSA shill seething
@@Feldmutze whomst? i wont even reccommend their AKs to people because of my situation, they fixed it but who knows when it will need fixed again
@average7.62enjoyer Not you, sorry for the confusion. There was another guy that spammed every comment with a response about how PSA is the best thing ever but he apparently deleted his comments now lol.
*Edit: Turns out he didn't delete the comment, it just only shows if you sort by "Newest" instead of the default "Top comments".
I would check the crown
I did an inspection of the crown and the whole barrel and I didn't see any issues.
Damn. Mine doesn’t throw like that at all. With PMC 855 it’s making fist sized groups at 100. Which is perfectly acceptable for my needs and the fact that it’s an AK.
You should get a gun rest and remove as much human error as you can.
Interesting. Yeah if this shot fist-sized groups that would be quite a respectable group imo, especially for an AK.
I've tried gun rests before, they tend to mess with the harmonics and I've found I consistently shoot better groups from prone compared to off a bench.
That thing sucks....5moa for 556?....my wasr10 shoots 3 to 4in at 100yrds w a red dot and I thought that was horrible...I should be happy I guess
I'm a supporter of PSA but for 556 AK would rather have a a Beryl. PSA does some concerning things with AK building and has been slow to learn or listen
U 🤡 beryl is 🗑️. Only thing questionable is what ur mom did when she was young. She a 💦💦💦 guzzler
Looks like PSA still doesnt know how to rivet a trunnion correctly. Not that AKs are particularly accurate, but those fliers bother me.
God that's BIG BAD 😂
Psa is just steel case ammo only
Lol that steel case is Also junk. Oal is all over the place and the fps spread is worse than tula
I wish PSA would stop with the names. None of their rifles i have seen have been actual 100 series and their rifles wont even take parts from the 100 series they are akms made to look like 100 series. I assume this about their 101 cause i know for a fact their 103 is not an actual 103. Its false advertisement and should be treated as such
This one has more similarities to an actual 100-series albeit with a 4.5mm side-folding pin rather than the correct 5.5mm. It has the correct 90° gas block and 24mm muzzle threads too.
PSA used to make another AK-101 exactly like you're describing though thar is really more an AKM in 5.56, which they've aptly since renamed to "AK-101AKM"
@@Feldmutze good to know and about time. No one wants to buy a 100 series just to find out its a repackaged akm they should have never done that
Soooooo 100 meter range toy
Bro that’s really bad… I’d report that to PsA. Zastava m90s shoot better than that
bro im getting better groups with the $600 pioneer arms 5.56 ak, i think something is fucky with his rifle
@@average7.62enjoyer yup. PSA has such a good opportunity but they consistently destroy their customer base. If they keep doing what they’re doing eventually they’ll crash and burn. Another company doing the same thing with slightly higher cost and better qc could destroy them
Theres something wrong with that rifle my guy. I have two home built AKs in 556 i made. Even with SS109 and my home relaods with ramshot tac im gettin 2.9 inch groups at 100 and with 55 grain in my 1/9 twist I'm getting 2.2 inch groups. ... PSA just sucks ! Awesome videos man ! Keep up the good work