Being 'let go' from a company and not being able to use your own ideas reminds me of a true story of a musician who left his record label and the label tried to sue him when he started writing new songs, because they were too similar to.... his own songs.
The problem is that depending on the dev's contract they may actually have issues with this. The company may own any ideas and intellectual property they come up with. However if the only similarity is a low fantasy extraction game they should be fine. Again, it depends on the contract. My contract makes me forfeit the rights to any IP unless I request for it to actually be mine. It should be noted that I don't work in the gaming industry though so maybe their standard contracts are different.
@@stephen9894 usually work done in the course of employment is the intellectual property of the employer not the employee. So if code written at nexon is copied and used at ironmace it's likely some IP laws might have been breached.
@@stephen9894 when I was doing engineering, everyone at the university hammered in, in the first a t year, that you should fight for ip clauses to be removed from your contract, at least for work done outside of work. I hate these clauses, but work done at work, for work, probably should be owned by the work. Even then, I doubt any of Nixon's copyright was used.
A few years ago I knocked back a job because of wording in the contract regarding anything I created whilst "employed by" the company. I asked them to change the wording and they refused. There's a big difference between something you create in the course of employment and something you create whilst you're employed by a company.
@@j.jbinks9669 "whilst "employed by"" Meaning *anything* while he is employed, potentially meaning also anything he may create during his off hours. At least that is how I understand his comment. Would be cool to see a clarification.
@@j.jbinks9669 No that's not standard. Standard is anything you come up with in the course of your employment. If you're on the clock, at work, using company resources, and collaborating with people within the company, then yes, anything you create is the companies. In fact, in Australia, that's a given and doesn't need to be specified in the contract. The company automatically gets those rights without specifying it in the contract. The specific wording of the clause, to me, indicated that they wanted rights to EVERYTHING you created, even in your own private time with your own private resources. Due to the non-specific wording, technically, it could've meant if I baked a cake at home when employed by them, it's the company's cake. Every time I make a coffee it's the companies coffee. Simply put the terminology was way too general and broad, and they were unwilling to change the clause, so I went "thanks, no thanks." and that was the end of it.
Because he believed very highly in a project that was getting canned and wanted to see it throught but corpo boss was like "Nah-uh bruh" so he did what he did. He got fired cuz of it, so probably he breached contract by doing it.
Nexon being a Korean company since i grew up and am living in Korea, Nexon was well known for ripping off kids and harrasing small developers for a long time. Happy to see these issues getting spotlight in the western world.
In the west their known for being a dogshit company too. Their pretty infamous for making all the p2w games a lot of westerners played as kids in the 2000s era. Great games potentially with unique ideas that are ruined by greed, damn shame.
i thought nexon is a shitty chinese company since they publish a lot of similar mobile games, like to netease and tencent. regardless, them being mega corpo mobile game publisher is enough for you to know that their product turns into shit
Nexon has a history of shutting down a lot of games, so it's not really surprising that they did this to Dark and Darker. That company just keeps digging their own grave.
Rather than "shutting down", it was more like shitty business decisions that kills their games because they want some short term money. Pretty much any new game awaiting global release, as soon as it gets published by Nexon, you already know it's fucked lol
I hate the system of suing someone just to ruin them draining them of resources. There should be serious backlash to false allegations and lawsuits, because it’s disgusting how much this gets misused.
In Australia if you get sued and defend yourself they have to pay your fees and any time you lost from working and then you can counter claim for more for wasting time and causing unnecessary stress. its weird that in other countries you have to pay for your self after defending false claims.
@@MrJackira if you ignore the absolutely horrible levels of corruption and the fact that law can be abused, its a great concept but its often poorly executed within austraulia
@@thejudgeshot7407 i mean not gonna lie, which country has no horrible level of corruption in their government and a frick ton of loopholes for big companies to use which are made by those corrupt politicians?
Well it is, the level of just entitlement and just flat out illegal stuff they are doing is just unreal, The cops didn't even find any stolen code or nothing so they shouldn't been able to put a cease letter. Dark and darker will win this, I bet on it, and if not I'll eat like two bricks of cheese lol
That's a common legal tactic larger companies use, they intentionally start legal battles because they know the smaller company cannot afford it in the same way they can. A lot of corporations do this to get rid of competition.
That's why it should be a thing for dismissals to occur based on the accusation that a company is using the legal system as a bullying tactic, rather than due to legitimate belief in validity of the claim.
There just needs to be a stipulation where if the claim is found to be false the accuser is automatically fined to cover the accused’s legal fees, lost operating costs, _AND_ lost profits. It’s just like in American football, where if the challenge against a call fails the challenging team loses a timeout.
I think critical did a terrible job covering the actual details of this case. there is sadly ALOT of merit to the legal claims Nexon made, and in no reality would this be considered a SLAPP lawsuit. I am unironically based on the current evidence, on the side of Nexon which is pretty fucked up. I think its pretty unlikely mace would be found innocent.
I spent way too much money in Maple Story as a kid on items that would EXPIRE after a month. They'd literally jank out the skins from your inventory and kill your pet unless you bought a life potion. Then they'd introduce skins that didn't expire but they were the price of actual real life clothes. It wasn't unusual to spend 60 buck on a outfit and face makeover.
From what I can tell in Korean, the situation seems to be a bit more... sticky. I don't know how much of the 'narrative' is due to Nexon's influence in Korean media (and online gambling addicts), but Nexon might have a case. I won't go over Nexon's actions, because the video covers it nicely, and their history demonstrates that they're honestly not a very nice company regardless of this situation. The disciplinary firing of the P3 lead developer. Outside of restructuring, firing someone outright is a really big no no under Korean labor laws, and with the labor union involved it becomes a massive headache. So even larger employers like Nexon avoid that route unless they think they have a solid case. Nexon's case is that the previous lead developer of P3 (current dev of Dark and Darker) leaked company IP and attempted to persuade the rest of the P3 team to come and work for him while he still held a company position. A point of contention was that the dev had an approved copy of P3 on a personal server due to the pandemic for remote working and, according to Nexon, retained it even after the end of that policy which got leaked and showcased to future investors for Ironmace. The dev claims he wiped his server, and I think the result of the police raid will determine the validity of that statement. There was also a post by an anonymous P3 developer that accused the lead dev of betrayal and of stealing the ideas of P3 team members who didn't join Ironmace with some pretty specific info, but as with all anonymous posts, its veracity remains unclear. The police raid. There were two raids conducted by the anti-terror/espionage division of the police in January 2022, and on the 7th of this month. The first raid was based on claims of code-stealing and industrial espionage. The "nothing to worry about" seems to be based on the order by the Prosecution Service to the police last December to redo the investigation after being forwarded the case by the police in August, which is what triggered the second raid. The last part is not a very good sign because a) that usually means the prosecution thinks there's a viable case to be made with a bit more evidence, and b) based on the 7 months it took them to get that order out, it's probably going to be a long and bloody fight, which is very unfavorable for Ironmace. Going bankrupt from drawn out legal proceedings is a genuine possibility against an entity like Nexon. And at the end of the day, even if the specific assets and code for Dark and Darker turn out to be independently developed from P3, the lead dev could still be found guilty of violating IP protection laws if he did indeed showcase P3 to outside investors for the explicit purpose of starting an independent venture, which might in turn affect Ironmace's legal standing if it's determined that funding was obtained illegally. Ultimately and legally, the whole thing comes down to whether or not Nexon can prove to the legal system that the lead dev engaged in industrial espionage and/or IP theft. Can the lead dev be accused of stealing, or can he prove that Dark and Darker was something recreated independently from P3 with legal funding sources? I'm not a lawyer or anything. I might have gotten things wrong. Take this post with a grain of salt too. e: I'm not blaming Charlie here folks. The degree of information disparity for non-Korean speaking individuals have been particularly severe for this case. Nexon is largely a Korean company with most of its userbase and development teams located in Korea, so it's no surprise that they release statements in Korean that predominantly gets published in Korean through domestic media. Dark and Darker has garnered pretty good international attention, which explains why they would bother releasing extensive English statements at all. Some seem to think that Ironmace deliberately attempted to mislead western audiences with their English statements, but I hesitate to point fingers like that at this point, due to the low level of information we currently have access to and the fact that it might just be translation woes/human error. All I know for certain is that the whole situation is a damn shame, since it looked like a cool game.
From what I've seen so far in the korean websites, there seem to be things that d&d dev teams never told to the players outside korea. (This is just a speculation from a person who just started to get into this situation, so take this with a grain of salt.)
So nice to see the only comment that is saying the right thing. In Korea, it is already known that when ironmace was an employee at Nexon, they were caught by Nexon and disciplined for trying to spread rumors among Nexon's employees, make them on their side, and steal Nexon's project. We also know that when ironmace tipped off a media outlet, it was revealed that it sent a tip-off to HYBE's e-mail, and that a giant named HYBE was investing and helping ironmace with their background. A company called HYBE also found that members in charge of their game industry worked for Nexon before, finding that Nexon is unusually tough and sensitive than ever. Therefore, we Koreans know that ironmace did something wrong.
Except Nexon didn't even successfully make the game, project p3 was cancelled It'd be like if Nexon tried making a souls game before demon souls, failed, then saw fromsoftware release demon souls and then Nexon tried suing them
Well only companies that dont publish good titles do that, to secure money. There can be a thousand souls like games, but the bandai/from-software ones will be divines and super popular. And they know it, so no need to be in petty drama like nexon.
To this day I still think that Maplestory locking fast travel behind a paid item is so scummy. FAST TRAVEL. Nintendo took some notes and did the same with Skyward Sword via amiibo lol.
Corrections I found in this 1. the employees left after the project was cancelled not fired. 2. the lawsuit is over stolen code, nothing about assets 3. employees working under & for any specific IP that intellectual property belongs to the company. This means you can't just go recreate the same game under a different company. (It's written within the confines of your contract of employment under "Most" game development companies.) 4. even if the things charlie claims in this video about assets are true or false the game is identical to P3. Not defending either side but go do your own research before forming an opinion.
Yes, you are correct. I hate Nexon and I want to go to Korea just to burn their company down. But Ironmace should see this coming miles away, Imagine if this happened to vavle where a few devs left and "made" Half-life 3. Oh and the project wasn't cancelled it was delayed P3 becoming P7
@@vicxentgg4969 I think it's common place to have a distaste for most Korean ran gaming companies. Also, I didn't know that I hope either dark and darker remains playable if it's concluded that there was no crime taken place, Or P7 gets released.
A customs shop I worked for did this type of thing, a lot of former employees including myself brought up ideas that the owner didn’t want to use because “it didn’t fit the work culture”, even as far as saying they wouldn’t work. These were not only ideas on how to run the shop more efficiently but also what other services we could offer and a certain price point. When those employees quit or got fired, he would use those same ideas and take all the credit saying he was the one who thought of them. Fuck RTP Customs in Alpharetta, GA.
@@brenturner1160 Just like darker and darker has rogues and wizards like any other rpg game. Yet they claim it be a clone, it's interchangeable like many things. It depends who is using it and when. The defention of the word rarely matters.
@@BillyBob-xr3tl the reason why they go after dark and darker is the FACT that the game the lead dev worked on, P3, looks pretty much identical to dark and darker, same art style, same gameplay, even same assets in some cases. From what i have heard the theory at the moment is that P3 got sacked by nexxon, so the lead dev, or someone close to him leaked the code for the game, then the lead dev got fired from nexxon and took the leaked P3 code and made D&D with it and allegedly he took P3 stuff and used it to show to Investors so fund his company to get the funds to make the game. So Nexxon is going after the lead dev for stealing / leaking the sourcecode from P3 and for espionage because he stole work from other devs from P3 allegedly. It will be interesting if nexxon can prove it or if ironmace just goes bankrupt before all this shit is over, i hope they do, but with an opponent like nexxon which has pretty much infinite money for this shit it looks dark for ironmace
@TheMossy Possible but how many times have we seen big companies lie to get what they wanted. I've been watching night agent and an agent finds evidence that people in the white house took part in a cover up so they came forward before this agent could and publicly shamed him and made him out to be a terriost/traitor even though he was trying to prevent the corrupt people in power from abusing their power like they did to label a man just doing his job to protect his country as a terrorist. It's hard for me to take anything a big company or politican says at face value. They got to where they are from kicking other people off the ladder to success. They aren't good people they lie and deceive to get what they want.
@@brenturner1160 They were either never called that at all or called both of those interchangeably. 'Doom clone' is a very old term. Weird hill to die on.
The smoking gun... Nexon filed copyrights for P3 last month. So about 2 years after the project was cancelled, and right after Dark and Darker was gaining a lot of popularity.
its likely true but proves nothing on its own, they could argue they copyrighted it once they found out and had proof that Ironmace was using stolen code, assets and IP that belongs to them and that they did it to protect their IP
@@King_Flippy_Nips Just like Ironma e could say they are regretting firing me and canceling my game because they are mad they made more money, similar to dots and blizzard. Blizzard turn down the dota dev because they took his idea and started development on heroes of the storm. So he went to valve. Guess what blizzard flopped on heroes and would 110% go after dota if it was any other company but valve. Because a lawsuit with valve would just end up with everyone losing money and nothing getting done. Nexon is going after Irondale because it's a baby. Stealing candy from a baby. Cowards know no bounds.
@@BillyBob-xr3tl or maybe the dota dev didnt allegedly leak the fkn sourcecode for the game and made an identical twin of the game he got paid by nexxon to make. Yes Nexxon is a shit company and yes D&D is a great game but you cant just leak fkn sourcecode and pretend like you get through with it if the thing you make out of your stolen sourcecode gets traction, especially not if you steal from a shitty, blood sucking company like nexxus. Yes its is shit but honestly it should have been predictable by the lead dev that they WILL go after him if his game has any meaningful success
I feel so bad for the people working a Ironmace, imagine putting your heart and soul into a game and having nearly everyone who played your game say nothing but good thing about it only to have some greedy gaming company not only claim you stole their code and assets but actually have your game removed from the most popular online store for pc games.
I mean steam is a pretty bad store I don't know why most companies bother with it. Like its big but you get scammed either way as user and seller. I'd probably say even the Microsoft store is better, like atleast if you've got an issue they'll help you. With steam you'll buy games, not get them and then they'll say steam doesn't moderate its own sales or something f*cking bs. On top op that steam also obviously never looks into anything and only has the most f*cking r*t*rded bots ever reply the same dumb stuff that clearly tells you they took no time to look what you even said and just told you to kys. Compared to the ms store where I had an issue similar to what I had with steam but instead of having to attempt a refund through PayPal as steam wouldn't refund for something I hadn't gotten. The ms store had actual humans that actually solved all the issues I had within like 30 min.
Massive companies already have enough of a strangle hold on the world as it is. They don't need the crutch of the legal system that allows them to say "Oh, your bank account is smaller than mine? And I don't like you? Guess you're life is over now."
That's why the American system is so fucked up. In many other countries, whoever loses a lawsuit has to cover all expenses of the lawsuit, including the lawyers of the other side.
@@heronekkotheanimer7386 And you read the one below it wrong. That's _also_ how it is in the US. If you lose, you have to pay for the expenses. Problem is, that the smaller companies can't often keep going till they win. You're billed throughout.
i work in the game dev industry, and one of the things we ALWAYS have to sign as a new employee, in even the smallest companies, is a contract saying we wont release anything of our own that would compete with the employer. the wording really is as vague as that. it applies not just during employment, but also after employment with a duration determined by the contract (usually a few years). so even if you didnt actually steal anything, if its competing for the same target market (like by being the same genre for example), it can be considered competition and breaking the contract. they do this for this very reason, they dont want employees stealing ideas for potential competition on the side. my guess is dark and darker devs simply broke this contract.
the idea of a company being able to copyright an idea is absolutely disgusting tbh an idea is not an ip, you cant copyright that or nothing will ever be created again. everything is derivative
Charlie talking about how he knew where the assets came from is so funny. I can’t imagine what goes through a companies head to make outlandish claims that can be spotted by anyone
It comes from greed, or some other deadly sin. Except Sloth. No, really, though. Think about it. When companies/people do this, it's often because they really think they deserve it, or might be able to get away with it.
because it costs money to the person being taken to court by them,it's literally just a petty attack on a company, because someone got out of their grasp and started making something great, but they either don't want that person to have success, or they're entitled to the idea that they caused it (with the time they had them onboard) and so should get compensation.
Not defending naxon at all but recognizing half the assets doesn't really prove anything. Its not a defense. That should be obvious. You're jumping on the coattails of Charlie's statement that at best suggests that half the assets aren't stolen and acting like its a locked in win. Not saying they stole anything but knowing where half the assets originated doesn't prove anything. Smh.
Yeaaaaah I don't even know the full story and I was like "Yup, I played Nexus TK when I was 8 years old back in 1998." I absolutely loved that game when I was a kid but looking back at all the Nexon games I played they were traaaaash. Gonna be interesting to see what shit they've been up to since I last heard of them.
Sounds like a classic case of attempted intimidation. Corporations sometimes try this sort of thing to eliminate competition. But they may also later attempt to make a "deal" with them to get profits off of the game by saying something like: "We won't do any more legal action if we partner".
This reminds me of the contract Walt Disney made his animators and artist sign that basically said anything they created or drew while employed with Disney became Disney property.
The funny thing about this is that if memory serves right, Epic Games will literally have to step in to protect THEIR copyright, and sue Nexon, if Nexon successfully sues Ironmouse. Otherwise, Nexon could become the new rights holder of these assets, since Epic Games didn't protect them within a certain time frame.
bro you never worked in your life. if you live in africa or nigeria yes its like that But you proply have a normal life a literally 0815 standard otto normal human you are And still you cry bout it? Bro if somebody is over your position he deserved it and of course youre not on the same lvl You sign a paper that say you sell your time and your skills in that job for that time for that money. So in that time youre his worker He dosnt have your soul youre just his worker. If you cry about that i dont wanna see you working in my job. You definetly couldnt survive any important job with your attitude.
Thanks for bringing light to Nexon as a company. As someone that used to play their games for years, I've noticed that in the more recent times, something weird's been going on there, resulting in numerous scandals and some of their longtime, community-loved higher-ups having left the company. Nexon is able to fly under the radar because the mainstream western consumer market doesn't know too much about them. Seeing this behavior from them is a new low, so I'm glad you're bringing this to light.
Yeah, it's good to see ol' Charles bringing attention to a company the west doesn't know much about. To this day, the only great game Nexon has is MapleStory but I haven't played that in a few years so IDK if they changed anything in a negative way.
Nexon was a shit company since the very beginning, with tragic policy regarding anything, they never loved their community. Just look at their cashcow Maple Story, highly priced skins that last (at least used to) only 90 days, ridiculous autoban system that could ban your account for leveling too fast simply playing their events, shipping same bugs through multiple versions of maplestory through all the versions and leaving them untouched for years. For example EU Maple was behind few years in updates compared to korean and still would get patch with bugs that they knew about years earlier! For example you would lose your character because some locations could just crash your client, good luck waiting for fix. These are literally only few of many many many wrong things they do or ignore.
Honestly if you play nexon's games for years you'd already think they're a bad company just from the decisions they make on almost every game they have. Putting questionable and unnecessary monetization overtime like one of the recent ones, kurtzpel for example. At first it was such a good game, the game dev is very supportive towards the players but nexon said nope. And just put microtransactions over everything, remove the free stuff and all. The team that actually works for the game couldn't do anything about it and watch their playcount crashing down.
@Nerumi A corporation's only priority is to make the line go up every quarter. That is ALL they care about, and they take an oath to the investors to uphold this. When a game goes corporate, you are nothing but a wallet to them.
Dude it isnt recent, Nexon has been like this FOREVER. They not only butcher every IP they own but dont give a rats ass about consumers, their own IP, or other developers and will only listen when money is involved.
One funny thing I remember from when I use to Play Maplestory was there was a particular map where they kept all the event related NPCs which made it easy for players to access them instead of having to go to multiple places to access the event NPCs you needed. Which sounded good on paper and was good for a short time. They also kept NPC's from past events like the Xmas NPCs. Keep in mind that a lot of people who played this game had really low spec computers including myself at that time. Anyways they kept adding and adding new NPCs to that area so naturally it started to slow people's computers down when they accessed that area. Eventually it got so bad that lots of people couldn't even go there without it being a "slide show". The frames were just that bad. So for months the players kept pestering Nexon to fix it. And I shit you not Nexons solution to this issue was to turn the non current event NPC's Invisible. Which as you can surmise didn't do shit. To this day that is the stupidest and funniest way i've ever seen a company "patch" an issue. They did eventually fix it but that was a ways down the line. As to how people found out the NPC's were invisible some guy on Reddit had made a mod that revealed it.
ive played riders of icarus(its now in the valofe cemetery), they once released a ptw pet that when you convert it to a crystal or something your character becomes OP. Like most health a player had would be around 150k but now it can be over 1M! Only thing they did was to remove it from stores but didnt remove it from peoples' inventories because they didnt wanna give money back. I dont follow the game anymore because its pretty dead but you can see how stupid they are just from this. To bad because i loved that game, it had its issues but the concept is amazing. If it didnt have such a bad company to run it im sure itd be top.
Charloe, the Dark and Darker devs literally WORKED AT NEXON on P3 and the code of that game got leaked when the game was cancelled.. the accusation is that not only does the game look and use many elements P3 did assets names and otherwise, but that they literally took the leaked code too.
Yes, I hate Nexon but doing something like this is just below the belt. They could change the aesthetics or what not but no, literally the exact same game, visually at least.
I have never heard of these companies and games before, but this video alone made me want to buy Dark and Darker when it gets back on Steam. I hope it does.
Back in February when they released its 3rd Playtest, I played it during the end when my friends told me about it, I’ve been addicted to the game. When it finally ended, the amount of withdrawal I am experiencing without this game is insane, never have I ever felt this over a game before, it was so fun and easy to understand, no special mechanics, straight up PvPvE gameplay was so fun, anyone can do good at this game. You don’t need to be a chess master genius or a Head Clicking FPS master, this game was made for anyone and I have been counting day by day waiting for the next playtest which is supposed to come out in April 14, hope to see you there fellow gamer!
Basically nexon = scummy big company that take control of smaller companies mainly gacha games (online gambling games) and make them insanely pay to win. I've never heard of dark and darker either but now I'm tempted to look into it. nexon can suck a fat one
This should be a learning moment for people: Never pitch your own ideas to your boss because you can lose the rights to them sometimes. The IP of an employee on the clock can easily become the IP of the company.
basically like working in Disney. you wouldn't let them know your own independent creative ideas off the job because disney owns the rights of anything people make while employed under Disney. (even if disney doesn't ever do anything with the material) Like a dragon hoards it's gold.
@@donjulio420Capitalism has brought you and continues to bring you exorbitant products. Without it, there are no video games. A legal contract under law pernits this, not the free market, in which superior products succeed and inferior fail, generating content voted on with capital by the public. As long as people buy.
@@ghostlyhousehorrors So what you're saying is, if I work in Disney and make illegal material is it technically Disney's creation? They probably thought of this.
Looks like it's even worse, at least EA had some good and worldwide popular games. All the games Nexon made seem to be a low effort unpopular garbage, and now they're attacking a small company whose first game is more popular than all their trash games ever were combined
When I worked at target we had to sign a contract that stated any blueprint ideas, toys, clothing, etc was property of them. By working there any idea of creativity was sparked because of their products and that we couldn’t create our ideas for sale or else we’d be likely sued. Imagine having an idea and not being able to sell it cause a company thinks it’s theirs… scummy ass world we live in
i didnt even know about this till i went on steam to check when the next playtest was going to be, and all of a sudden i couldnt find Dark And Darker and it was no longer in my wishlist. i was so sad to have found out that a company that started out small would bully a smaller company thats just starting out.
@@Fvcky0uverymuch the bad guy are in the making video games business, they just made one mediocre game for children that got popular, and now they are attempting to use their company to ruin a good game they displayed no interest in making
My tinfoil hat theory is that since they failed to prove there were any stolen assets, Nexon is trying to tie them up in litigation long enough to ressurect and release P3. A company of that size probably only needs 6-12 months to do that - less if they already spun it up back when Dark and Darker boomed last winter
@@Sophice and that's where you're wrong, kiddo. gamers dont care about morality. they want to play the game, and they want to play it now. microtransactions, loot boxes. terrible business practices etc. they still support them, buy the battle pass and then spend more money on skins. they cant help themselves.
Sounds like they’re trying to litigate the small company until they go broke. Happens all the time as attorney fees usually aren’t awarded in courts, and you can’t do much with a company without cash on hand.
I remember reading though my Terms of Employment from a little while back and there was a clause that stated that any ideas or etc you've had during during tenure, become the intellectual property of the company
Thanks Charlie for bringing this 'Big corporate douchebaggery' out the light. I feel like fans and gamers mostly kids and teens don't know how evil these companies truly are. Nexxon is just one of them and they were exposed now but these bullying is happening all the time with other big companies as well
I mean if IronMace actually stole code(and/or assets) that was written at Nexon during work hours for Nexon's P3 project and used it in Dark & Darker they deserve this shit. What if employees got fired/quit from a small indie company and took that code with them to a bigger company who then made a successful game based on that code/those assets would you feel the same way?
Really hoping this turns into another "It Takes Two" scenario where this controversy only ends up blowing up in Nexon's face, and Dark and Darker becomes extremely popular just to spite them.
Except in this case Nexon actually has legal ground to stand on. That situation with It Takes Two was an attempt to scare and bully them into submission, not actually win a legal battle.
Unfortunately many companies have a contract clause that states that any idea you have while working there is their intellectual property. Companies in general are usually anti-employee when they can be.
I remember playing Monster Squad (mobile game by Nexon) when I was like 12 or 13 on my old tablet. Then Nexon shut down their servers in December 2016 for seemingly no reason, two years after the game's release. I never had respect for Nexon since. That game was some of my happiest memories, and I don't think that I've ever had another mobile game since that I liked more since, or one that was more nostalgic. Earlier in 2021, I remembered the game suddenly, and decided I'd go for a nostalgia trip. I had broken my tablet in early 2016 (didn't know the servers were down yet as a result) and I never played the game again on my phone, so I go install it, and boom, what do you know, servers down, have been since 2016. My soul was crushed, and I don't think I've ever felt more utterly heartbroken over a game. Screw Nexon man :(
I'm so happy to see Monster Squad being brought up in a YT comment out of all places, that game was amazing, no game on mobile feels the same with how it's hectic 2d combat flows and how unnecessarily hard the designs went. Sad to see it go down
man I miss that game, and I went searching for it around the same time. the only remnants of that game are a single playlist of old walkthroughs, a few cube openings, and some very nostalgic music.
How jealous and greedy of a company do you have to be to police raid and sue a tiny developer team for "stealing" your game idea, even though you fired the developer behind the OG game in the first place. Hope Dark and Darker devs win this legal battle and get their game back on Steam.
Hey charlie I doubt you'll notice me but I was the one that sent you tons of articles and the information about all of this directly after it was released on their discord. I just wanted to say, thank you so much for covering this. This is incredibly important to me. Much love man
@@WhyUA-camSucks huh??? I sent like 3-5 articles that were in Korean last night to him because everything that was being released last night was all in Korea, no news was being put out about the situation in America yet, because ironmace ONLY disclosed this inoformation about the DMCA in their discord, they didn’t even tweet it. So I was reading everything and up to date on the entire situation 2 hours after it was announced, and I highly doubt critikal used any of the sources I sent, or even cared to look at my message in the first place, because he’s bombarded I’m sure with nonsense DM’s on the daily. I was quite literally reading the Korean “Wikipedia” In real time as it was being updated from new information on the ironmace vs nexon situation, so I had more information at the time than likely 80% of people or more had. But I was mainly just trying to express my gratitude for covering the situation, because it’s very important to me.
@@FienX_don’t worry about explaining yourself to troglodytes on UA-cam, they usually don’t have enough brain cells to rub together to have an opinion worth listening to, and they definitely don’t have enough to understand any body else’s opinions.
@@Instabruh.User.. weird how random nobody accounts get taken over by fake pron scammers but doofus nobody accounts like this dont... they target the wrong people smh
It will be devastating if DaD is shelved forever because of this corporate greed. It’s been such a breath air compared to most of the trash games that get released these days, and the devs at ironmace seemed so genuine and passionate about their game.. We need to game to be a success for so many reasons
from what i have heard the lead dev is getting investigated on because he allegedly leaked the sourcecode from P3 as he got fired or something. DaD is a great game but stealing sourcecode is a fkn no-go, even if you steal from shit companies like Nexxon.
I hope Ironmace countersues them. There's already too much DMCA abuse, it's time these companies started feeling it in their wallet when they make a false DMCA claim.
Ironmace is likely screwed here. They don't really have a case to justify their blatant theft. Go watch Kira's video or look up the screenshots of the P3 game, Ironmace straight up copied their game. The only way they could've done that is if they're an ex-employee. I hate the thought of defending Nexon, but they're almost certainly going to win legal battles over this. If Ironmace were smart they'd rally the community behind them for monetary support, drop the current game entirely and make their own version that doesn't look exactly like Nexon's.
@@BunnyArisu My man, you cannot copyright a genre. They cannot copyright "pvpve dungeon crawler". That is not how the law works. Literally almost every single asset in the game can be found on the unreal store. "Blatant theft" is literally being misused in your post. Blatantly. There is already a multitude of legal precedent when it comes to the copyrighting of a genre. The devs of Nioh weren't sued by FromSoft for making a game with the exact same template to the point where it's literally referred to as "Souls-Like". There is a reason for that. What Nexon is doing is trying to drown the small studio in legal fees by dragging out a pointless legal battle, because they have realized they missed out on a cashcow and don't want ex-employees to be able to cash out on it.
@@benjaminbrown3939 no, he’s partly correct. Even if they prove that the assets are public domain and nothing was stolen, there’s still the legal funds, and Nexon could bleed Iron Mace dry and kill the project that way, by continuously dragging the case on and on.
4:18 Everyone knows the story of the infamous Nexon rock. It's even so notorious that it has it's own subreddit of games it has been featured in. Truly a rock of all time
Dark and Darker was easily one of the best games I've ever seen overall for a beta stage experience. So much fun, and I have high hopes that this situation will not stop Ironmace from completing what will be one of the best PVPVE experiences possible.
Sounds like when PUBG tried to sue fortnite for stealing the game genre. With that logic Nintendo needs to start sueing all 2d platforms any kind from stealing from Mario and of course any and all Metroidvania games. This is so fucking dumb. I hope Nexxon gets counter sued
I work at a Company that made me sign a contract that if i have an idea that's USED in any shape or form by them, it's their idea not mine anymore, so maybe, just maybe it could be something like this, but not for me to defend those guys at Nexon. If they knew from step 1 which game was, what kind of things the game is doing that "it's from my company", and who those people were, they could've dealt with this earlier, it would've been best for both parties all things considered. Hope they can clutch this out!
How to ignore a company on steam: Click on publisher title > On the publisher page > Click the "options" icon next to the "report" flag > Select the ignore option.
Nexon might have been able to kill the game by removing it from the steam store, killing it's momentum. But since Charlie is covering it, now it will have a bigger following than ever before when it finally comes back online.
That's if it comes back, IRONMACE is a Korean company and non competes are nearly mandatory when anyone gets fired over there. So you have the lead developers all having signed non competes with Nexon, who is still working on P3 internally, going on to make Dark and Darker, a direct competitor to P3. Hopefully they can work something out, but it doesn't look good to be honest for IRONMACE if even a fraction of what Nexon is saying it true
Stole their idea? How would they steal an idea on something that has not even been released? They don’t get to claim an idea was stolen on something that wasn’t even created while employed at the company.
A lot of cases are dismissed due to lack of evidence, or similarly settled out of court. I'm not sure they could even get as far as bleeding the smaller dev dry if they have nothing to begin with.
Your ending comments are very much in line with my perspective on the overall concept of patents and trademarking law. If you come up with an idea that your company decides not to pursue, you should have the right to pursue it yourself. And even more so, I believe that if someone comes up with an idea that gets patented, they should have a limited amount of time to implement it into a product or else it becomes a published idea that anyone can use. This was also why we got 3D printers 30+ years later than we should've which is sad because it stifles progress. Unfortunately, that's just not how the law works. Before signing on with my company, I was required to acknowledge any ideas I have that are related to the company's products become the property of the company (Ideas, drawings, builds, even just scribbles on a napkin, etc.). There are exceptions under California state law when it comes to inventions one comes up with outside of work (Assuming inventions are considered ideas, this can also apply to the arts), but almost always, if you come up with an idea, it becomes automatically owned by the company while under their employment assuming they wrote their employment contract correctly, which they usually do.
Oh screw that! Lol You wanna claim my personal projects because they’re somehow similar to something I made for your company, then you’re gonna be taking them from my corpse. And I can mean that literally. I don’t have a shit to give and way _way_ too much buried anger and bitterness.
@@Someonethefunnyone that's the funniest bot of them all! Well there is also that one saying it feels sexually attracted to donuts. Anyways it brings a smile to my face someone uses these pesky bots we all hate this way
nexon is just doing what apple does at a much smaller scale. big companies buy power and bully competitors till they are dead. its just the bigger the company the more power they have to manipulate the masses with their friends in media.
Unfortunately many companies like Nexon have their employees sign contacts stating that any and all "intellectual property" (Ideas included) that are thought of at the workplace belong to the company where it was thought up. Literally its the most B.S. clause in many contracts that people just ignore but it's come back to absolutely ruin some people's lives by having companies swoop in and steal their idea and hard work.
Nexon is like that leader of a middle school rock band who bullied one of the members for a song they wrote, but when he left to publish the song himself and got famous for it, they got toxic and said "You stole OUR idea"
Two ways about it, 1. either the ex-employee submitted and filed the idea/concept, it was not accepted to be implemented(iced/shelved) but accepted to be filed and claimed in their asset library(hence property but to what extent? just idea? codes and model assets?) OR 2. It is the realisation they missed the train here and try to cawk block a competitor from going big on something they should have done. In the case of 2. , they achieved it, they blocked the competitor and it is off steam. The classic "throw monkey wrench into the works" play. It is a pity though, I was looking forward to seeing the next roadmap testing on streaming plays by OJ, Alex and Flippy.
If it is stolen then I support Nexon. Doesn't matter what it is. I could be one line of code and Dark and Darker should still get sued. You cannot just go an steal things from people and companies no matter how small or how big even with Nexon being a shitty a company. Not only that, but those employees would have had to agree to a legal contract while working at Nexon. You cannot go against the fine print. Now if Nexon is in the wrong then I support Dark and Darker, however all of this is she said he said, so no one should be believed, therefore making this drama invalid.
as someone who's played maplestory on and off for years i can confirm that nexon is a grimy company, they don't even pay their sponsored streamers with real money they give them NX (paid in game currency)
Its so funny how even the Maplestory subreddit got a tag (which I believe is being used the most) called "Literally unplayable" which is full with either incompetence with the Nexon team and GMs or how the game is so money-driven that players will just quit
When I realized there payed in game items are temporary. I never looked back. I tried there DFO. But it was a huge waste of time at the end of the day.
I cant be the only one that thinks this take is a bit clouded by bias no? One look at P3 gameplay, the dev having worked on the project, the allegations on the dev leaking, then getting fired to then work at IRONMACE, and then Dark and Darker being the same game conceptually makes me lean towards Nexon having a case here. For example: Lets say I worked on Fortnite. Fortnite was struggling so the company ventured into creating possible concepts to save the game. I worked on the team for the Fortnite battle royale mode called "F1." I then leave Epic for a smaller company and sell them the idea of "a third person shooter battle royale but you build structures and destroy the environment for materials." What's the theme? "cartoony." It doesn't matter if I then get all of the actual assets from the unreal store instead, the concept was taken and Epic can no longer release Fortnite BR without dealing with a nightmare of trouble. There's a reason most, if not all, companies contractually inform you that anything you create/work on when employed by the company is company property. Same case if I was part of the team for GODSLAP and then left to create MEGASLAPPERS to release it using my own artstyle before the first GODSLAP could be officially announced. Meatier would be 100% in the right to sue me for that. And for those saying "Nexon wouldn't have done anything if the game didn't get big" Well, yeah, duh. Why is this such a point of contention? Companies do cost benefit analysis all the time. If Dark and Darker flopped, the cost of the internal investigation, external investigation, hiring people, dealing with legal, creating a court case, etc. wouldn't be worth resecuring the stolen IP. On that note, if your argument contains any of the following: Nexon = greedy Nexon is jealous I like Dark and Darker Contracts are stupid You're a bot Nexon propaganda Or anything similar Then maybe take a step back for a bit, no one is arguing Nexon isn't a company with poor practices. No one is saying Dark and Darker was bad. This is down to if assets/concepts were used, created and/or taken from P3 during employment at Nexon. This would be an insider information breach, not a breach of "I wanted to play Dark and Darker but Nexon be hella stinky frfr." Do I think Nexon would have made P3 good? No. Do I think Nexon is a good company? No. Do I think IRONMACE is as innocent and as much of the victim as everyone says? Probably not. Keep in mind, this was made with all the current information I am aware of at this moment. The best thing to do is to wait until whatever court case happens when everything is laid out on the table before solidifying your opinions. Also, I'm not a laywer, take everything I said with a grain of salt, just my two cents.
I've read that some game studios will tell people not to send them game ideas. Reason being, if that game studio did make a game similar to an idea that someone sent them, then that person could claim the game studio stole their idea and there'd be legal trouble. I don't know if that would hold up in court but it is something that studios think about. Regardless, pretty scummy from Nexon to do this.
I personally don't think that would hold in court. People have to copyright stuff so they hold the right to certain things/ideas, if people just recommend stuff they are willingly giving away ideas others can use. Many games "copy" or "take inspiration" from other games and reuse certain ideas in a similar way and usually do not get sued over it. Many things like the greek Mythos falls under public use since no one can copyright it I think so every media that has greek myth inspiration can't be sued for it. One of my favorite examples since I absolutely hate Genshin Impact is their survey when their game first came out. It showed all the games they took inspiration from and I saw certain attacks/animations from my favorite games like Devil May Cry and Nier Automata being recreated in Genshit. Another example but I don't hate is Splitgate, it is HEAVILY inspired by Halo, it has similar mechanics, weapons and movement and gampleay only difference is it has portals, that didn't get sued for either despite being "Halo with portals". Another example that I hate also comes from Mihoyo (creators of Genshin Impact), they have another game called Honkai Impact and their main character is basically Bayonetta; she has a super similar moveset to Bayonetta and Bayonetta has a moveset I have not seen anywhere else so it looks like they took the idea for Bayonetta and instead of summoning demon limbs for attacks it's big robot limbs Personally I think they should have made her have a basic moveset instead of copying Bayonetta. Mihoyo also uses Judgement cut effects in many attacks for some reason and it's used in bad taste since it ruins the spectacle and scale of the attack Vergil uses in DMC, again they could have just gone for a more basic moveset instead of trying to recreate already cool ideas but significantly worse.. And yes I am a proud Mihoyo hater.
This is not only a games industry issue but a greater media industry issue in general. For example, the KyoAni arsonist's motive was perceived idea theft (this is an extreme example and idk if he actually sent them ideas, but I think it illustrates the kind of lunacy people have with stuff like this).
I hope they aren't able to bleed them dry with legal funds, this is one of my favorite games and I would be so sad if they aren't able to release it because of this, there should be a crowdfund started for the legal fees, because even if they win they will be down so much money it's ridiculous.
I think that regardless of the outcome, Ironmace will rebound with support from their fans. They probably will have to delay release but the internet will probably support them even if they got bled dry.
When you fire your talent, you have to be fully aware that they may make products outside of your company that can compete directly with your products. They can't just take the L I suppose, they have to throw a legal tantrum.
This is very normal in Korea. as a Korean I can say that they will 95% lose the court case. but since this game is pretty huge something might change for this game. There are many smaller game where major company "Nexon" bullied to remove just to get an monopoly. however, nexon wouldn't touch other major development company (most of the time) BTW this isnt for only gaming. this is for ANY STARTUP. Samsung gets involved in these and SKT and other big korean company.
Charlie was so animated doing the sarcastic impression of someone finding assets from p3 as opposed to how he is normally the level of emotion on display was scary.
This is absolutely ridiculous. If we can't even make games based on canceled projects, then there's eventually going to be a time where any canceled project can come up out of tens of thousands that can be used as a weapon for lawsuits.
How it works is that Nexon can certainly hold copyright to creative IP concepts, such as artwork, lore, etc. You can also own the copyright to code, as it is proprietary work. Note, it has to be the exact code that was reproduced or copied, and not just someone reverse engineering how it works and making their own, unique code. Hence why source codes are copyrighted. Even if you cancel the work, you still hold the copyright. You can also do this with specific, tangible elements that you uniquely created. However, what you cannot copyright is broad concepts, game mechanics, etc. You cant just lay claim to a genre. It doesn't work that way. You would have to prove that specific copyrightable elements are either utilized, or are close enough to show they are being copied outside of fair use arguments. You cant just flip the color scheme on character and call it good. You cant have the same exact character mechanics, only with a different skin, as well, as those specific elements were copyrighted. You also cant use the source code. You cant rewrite Harry Potter but with the character names changed. None of this falls under fair use. What you absolute can do is take the broad concepts of a game, create your own version with your own code and your own rules, and run with it. So Nexon does hold rights to the cancelled project, but only as it pertains to the narrow definitions of copyright.
As someone that played Mabinogi for years, this sounds like a normal thing that Nexon does. Not sure if it's Nexon code though because they tend to write barely functional spaghetti code and from the sounds of it, Dark and Darker seems like a coded paradise in comparison
It's important to understand that a cease and desist letter actually doesn't mean anything. The letter is just a letter saying "if you don't stop doing that we're going to do something." It is often also used as a way of harassment against people who look at fancy letterhead and get scared which most people do.
As soon as I heard of Nexon, the name completely went over my head. Then, I hears the name MapleStory and got a bunch of memories flooding back. After that my thought was, "THAT Nexon? Oh. Oh no... this won't be good."
Ironmace are just as dodgy. People are blindly defending them because they like the game but they will just take the money and run if it ever does release
when I saw "Dark and Darker" in the thumbnail, I was worried the devs did something, only to find out it's Nexon being... well. Nexon. Glad to hear more people talking about them though.
@@oOXIED8Oo Yeah. Pepsi did. They claimed to have a copyright on the particular breed of registered potato or something. They eventually withdrew their lawsuit after attempting to get the farmers to "settle."
@@ClockworkGearhead funny thing is they would have lost as they can copyright the process of making them but they can not copyright the potatoes themselves. Copy right laws and trademark laws regarding produce that you actually grow is very interesting and is actually more fair than media copyright and trade mark laws
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena Well, it was something in India in the first place. I'm not even sure the same copyright laws work there. The real reason they dropped it is they were facing really severe backlash on their decision (Also, if I'm not wrong, the farmers weren't actually growing the crop on their own. Neighboring farmers did and the crop happened to migrate. Don't quote me on that, though.) It was just pure greed on Pepsi's part.
bruh the lead dev is getting sued because there is a real chance that he leaked the sourcecode from P3 (which is basicly dark and darker) as he got fired and P3 got sacked. You cant just leak fkn code from your employer, especially not if its a company like nexxon. Dark and Darker looks literally the same as the game he was making when he worked at nexxon, it was obv that they go after him
Just remember, Nexon makes their games P2W if they touch it, remove features they formerly had and it's irritating to deal with how intrusive the cash shop is. I played Elsword before. No longer do. Because RNG for power with IRL money being the only way you can give yourself some insurance, should the item you're working on break. And you do this 5 times every 2-3 years.
Sometimes they didn't even need to go to trial for these things, but they only need to harrass the dark and darker dev with getting their resource run dry from dealing with lawsuit and hiring lawyer until they give up and said it's not worth the trouble. These things called SLAPP suit i believe
@@AjixGameOver because it's not free to become a lawyer, and it takes effort and smarts to be a good lawyer. And you need good lawyers to keep these dumb suits going.
Being 'let go' from a company and not being able to use your own ideas reminds me of a true story of a musician who left his record label and the label tried to sue him when he started writing new songs, because they were too similar to.... his own songs.
Taylor Swift had this happen to her as well. She rerecorded all the songs she couldn't use, so big drama.
The problem is that depending on the dev's contract they may actually have issues with this.
The company may own any ideas and intellectual property they come up with. However if the only similarity is a low fantasy extraction game they should be fine.
Again, it depends on the contract. My contract makes me forfeit the rights to any IP unless I request for it to actually be mine. It should be noted that I don't work in the gaming industry though so maybe their standard contracts are different.
@@stephen9894 usually work done in the course of employment is the intellectual property of the employer not the employee. So if code written at nexon is copied and used at ironmace it's likely some IP laws might have been breached.
@@stephen9894 when I was doing engineering, everyone at the university hammered in, in the first a t year, that you should fight for ip clauses to be removed from your contract, at least for work done outside of work.
I hate these clauses, but work done at work, for work, probably should be owned by the work.
Even then, I doubt any of Nixon's copyright was used.
@@kosakukawajiri5007 Yeah, that whole thing was pretty enlightening. She had the rights to her I.P., just not the recordings.
The first few seconds was like watching a roulette wheel spin and spin and spin before landing on one of hundreds of thousands of bad companies.
charlie commented on my newest video im literally cryin rn !!
charlie commented on my newest video im literally cryin rn !!
Why are there so many bots under this one comment?
@@DavisDeKarper its every comment. honestly wish it had stayed dead, notifications were just bombarded by bots
I feel bad for you man, so many bots.😅
A few years ago I knocked back a job because of wording in the contract regarding anything I created whilst "employed by" the company. I asked them to change the wording and they refused. There's a big difference between something you create in the course of employment and something you create whilst you're employed by a company.
Pretty standard contract in that industry, not sure what you're bitching about
@@j.jbinks9669 "whilst "employed by""
Meaning *anything* while he is employed, potentially meaning also anything he may create during his off hours.
At least that is how I understand his comment. Would be cool to see a clarification.
@@j.jbinks9669 No that's not standard. Standard is anything you come up with in the course of your employment.
If you're on the clock, at work, using company resources, and collaborating with people within the company, then yes, anything you create is the companies.
In fact, in Australia, that's a given and doesn't need to be specified in the contract. The company automatically gets those rights without specifying it in the contract.
The specific wording of the clause, to me, indicated that they wanted rights to EVERYTHING you created, even in your own private time with your own private resources.
Due to the non-specific wording, technically, it could've meant if I baked a cake at home when employed by them, it's the company's cake. Every time I make a coffee it's the companies coffee.
Simply put the terminology was way too general and broad, and they were unwilling to change the clause, so I went "thanks, no thanks." and that was the end of it.
@@j.jbinks9669 bro got ratio'ed 😭😭
@@j.jbinks9669 Even if it was standard that doesn't make something right to do
I can't imagine why that one developer was trying to encourage other co-workers to leave and start their own company. 🙃
Because he believed very highly in a project that was getting canned and wanted to see it throught but corpo boss was like "Nah-uh bruh" so he did what he did.
He got fired cuz of it, so probably he breached contract by doing it.
@@DayOfCasualyou're not big on sarcasm right?
@@DayOfCasual He literally put an upside down frown at the end how can you not realise the sarcasm oh my god
Their trying to start up another DreamWorks company
@@embern3372 it’s really not that deep…
Nexon being a Korean company since i grew up and am living in Korea, Nexon was well known for ripping off kids and harrasing small developers for a long time. Happy to see these issues getting spotlight in the western world.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
I hope they dont cancel dave the diver too
In the west their known for being a dogshit company too. Their pretty infamous for making all the p2w games a lot of westerners played as kids in the 2000s era. Great games potentially with unique ideas that are ruined by greed, damn shame.
Nexon is irrelevant as fuck in the West. It doesn't get much coverage because it doesn't need it.
i thought nexon is a shitty chinese company since they publish a lot of similar mobile games, like to netease and tencent. regardless, them being mega corpo mobile game publisher is enough for you to know that their product turns into shit
Nexon has a history of shutting down a lot of games, so it's not really surprising that they did this to Dark and Darker. That company just keeps digging their own grave.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Rather than "shutting down", it was more like shitty business decisions that kills their games because they want some short term money.
Pretty much any new game awaiting global release, as soon as it gets published by Nexon, you already know it's fucked lol
@@p-__ you should Jump
I miss shattered galaxy
Hopefully Dark can fight this with some help from the community.
I hate the system of suing someone just to ruin them draining them of resources. There should be serious backlash to false allegations and lawsuits, because it’s disgusting how much this gets misused.
Unfortunately this is not the case. Nexon has a case here and will probably win.
@@jamieboer3466And fucking rightfully so.
Read into it more brother, cause Charlie damn sure didn’t lol
@@KoreanSpy1997 oh yea, just sad because the game was kinda fun.
I know. It’s stupid. So much shit is determined by who has more money. Justice itself is determined by who has more money. Disgusting.
In Australia if you get sued and defend yourself they have to pay your fees and any time you lost from working and then you can counter claim for more for wasting time and causing unnecessary stress. its weird that in other countries you have to pay for your self after defending false claims.
Australia confirmed most developed country in the modern world apparently
That sound really amazing wtf
@@MrJackira if you ignore the absolutely horrible levels of corruption and the fact that law can be abused, its a great concept but its often poorly executed within austraulia
@@thejudgeshot7407 does sound too good to be true ultimately, but hey.
@@thejudgeshot7407 i mean not gonna lie, which country has no horrible level of corruption in their government and a frick ton of loopholes for big companies to use which are made by those corrupt politicians?
Charlie saw the claims of asset theft and was like:
"This is unreal"
Lmao
Underrated comment 😂
Best comment 😭😭
Report the bot that claims their content is better, report it for unwanted commercial placement or for misinformation
Well it is, the level of just entitlement and just flat out illegal stuff they are doing is just unreal, The cops didn't even find any stolen code or nothing so they shouldn't been able to put a cease letter.
Dark and darker will win this, I bet on it, and if not I'll eat like two bricks of cheese lol
That's a common legal tactic larger companies use, they intentionally start legal battles because they know the smaller company cannot afford it in the same way they can. A lot of corporations do this to get rid of competition.
That's why it should be a thing for dismissals to occur based on the accusation that a company is using the legal system as a bullying tactic, rather than due to legitimate belief in validity of the claim.
There just needs to be a stipulation where if the claim is found to be false the accuser is automatically fined to cover the accused’s legal fees, lost operating costs, _AND_ lost profits.
It’s just like in American football, where if the challenge against a call fails the challenging team loses a timeout.
@@jtnachos16 å
If you convince the court of this, you can make them pay legal fees. Sargon managed it.
I think critical did a terrible job covering the actual details of this case.
there is sadly ALOT of merit to the legal claims Nexon made, and in no reality would this be considered a SLAPP lawsuit. I am unironically based on the current evidence, on the side of Nexon which is pretty fucked up. I think its pretty unlikely mace would be found innocent.
I spent way too much money in Maple Story as a kid on items that would EXPIRE after a month. They'd literally jank out the skins from your inventory and kill your pet unless you bought a life potion. Then they'd introduce skins that didn't expire but they were the price of actual real life clothes. It wasn't unusual to spend 60 buck on a outfit and face makeover.
Sounds normal now but this was like 2005-2008.
Let's not forget the egregious p2w scheme they turned MS into starting with those stupid meso bags.
I think Josh Stryfe Hayes made a vid “what went wrong with gaming” which named Maple Story as the beginning of predatory monetization.
@@InazumaDash no it doesn't
@@annavictrix Man, never played Maple Story but all this makes me definitely not want to start now
From what I can tell in Korean, the situation seems to be a bit more... sticky. I don't know how much of the 'narrative' is due to Nexon's influence in Korean media (and online gambling addicts), but Nexon might have a case. I won't go over Nexon's actions, because the video covers it nicely, and their history demonstrates that they're honestly not a very nice company regardless of this situation.
The disciplinary firing of the P3 lead developer. Outside of restructuring, firing someone outright is a really big no no under Korean labor laws, and with the labor union involved it becomes a massive headache. So even larger employers like Nexon avoid that route unless they think they have a solid case. Nexon's case is that the previous lead developer of P3 (current dev of Dark and Darker) leaked company IP and attempted to persuade the rest of the P3 team to come and work for him while he still held a company position. A point of contention was that the dev had an approved copy of P3 on a personal server due to the pandemic for remote working and, according to Nexon, retained it even after the end of that policy which got leaked and showcased to future investors for Ironmace. The dev claims he wiped his server, and I think the result of the police raid will determine the validity of that statement. There was also a post by an anonymous P3 developer that accused the lead dev of betrayal and of stealing the ideas of P3 team members who didn't join Ironmace with some pretty specific info, but as with all anonymous posts, its veracity remains unclear.
The police raid. There were two raids conducted by the anti-terror/espionage division of the police in January 2022, and on the 7th of this month. The first raid was based on claims of code-stealing and industrial espionage. The "nothing to worry about" seems to be based on the order by the Prosecution Service to the police last December to redo the investigation after being forwarded the case by the police in August, which is what triggered the second raid. The last part is not a very good sign because a) that usually means the prosecution thinks there's a viable case to be made with a bit more evidence, and b) based on the 7 months it took them to get that order out, it's probably going to be a long and bloody fight, which is very unfavorable for Ironmace.
Going bankrupt from drawn out legal proceedings is a genuine possibility against an entity like Nexon. And at the end of the day, even if the specific assets and code for Dark and Darker turn out to be independently developed from P3, the lead dev could still be found guilty of violating IP protection laws if he did indeed showcase P3 to outside investors for the explicit purpose of starting an independent venture, which might in turn affect Ironmace's legal standing if it's determined that funding was obtained illegally.
Ultimately and legally, the whole thing comes down to whether or not Nexon can prove to the legal system that the lead dev engaged in industrial espionage and/or IP theft. Can the lead dev be accused of stealing, or can he prove that Dark and Darker was something recreated independently from P3 with legal funding sources?
I'm not a lawyer or anything. I might have gotten things wrong. Take this post with a grain of salt too.
e: I'm not blaming Charlie here folks. The degree of information disparity for non-Korean speaking individuals have been particularly severe for this case. Nexon is largely a Korean company with most of its userbase and development teams located in Korea, so it's no surprise that they release statements in Korean that predominantly gets published in Korean through domestic media. Dark and Darker has garnered pretty good international attention, which explains why they would bother releasing extensive English statements at all. Some seem to think that Ironmace deliberately attempted to mislead western audiences with their English statements, but I hesitate to point fingers like that at this point, due to the low level of information we currently have access to and the fact that it might just be translation woes/human error. All I know for certain is that the whole situation is a damn shame, since it looked like a cool game.
Finally a comment that is on point. I was wondering why no one was taking about the reason Ironmace was sued.
@@wonjunchoi5633 ironmace is even deleting korean translated posts on their subreddit as "misinformation" its kinda wild
From what I've seen so far in the korean websites, there seem to be things that d&d dev teams never told to the players outside korea. (This is just a speculation from a person who just started to get into this situation, so take this with a grain of salt.)
So nice to see the only comment that is saying the right thing. In Korea, it is already known that when ironmace was an employee at Nexon, they were caught by Nexon and disciplined for trying to spread rumors among Nexon's employees, make them on their side, and steal Nexon's project.
We also know that when ironmace tipped off a media outlet, it was revealed that it sent a tip-off to HYBE's e-mail, and that a giant named HYBE was investing and helping ironmace with their background. A company called HYBE also found that members in charge of their game industry worked for Nexon before, finding that Nexon is unusually tough and sensitive than ever.
Therefore, we Koreans know that ironmace did something wrong.
This is very thoughtful comment. Too bad gamers love to jump on hate wagon without a thought.
Imagine if FromSoftware/Bandai went after everyone that has made a souls-like game. Feels pretty odd to say you own a genre
Except Nexon didn't even successfully make the game, project p3 was cancelled
It'd be like if Nexon tried making a souls game before demon souls, failed, then saw fromsoftware release demon souls and then Nexon tried suing them
Well only companies that dont publish good titles do that, to secure money. There can be a thousand souls like games, but the bandai/from-software ones will be divines and super popular. And they know it, so no need to be in petty drama like nexon.
That'd be awesome! We'd be getting more original games instead of clones!
Or if valve tried to sue Blizzard for copying tf2
@@scoobydouche9991 same genre = clone i guess
Can you imagine Nexon's version of this? Think of all the things locked behind a paywall.
and how boringly pay to win it'd be lol
To this day I still think that Maplestory locking fast travel behind a paid item is so scummy.
FAST TRAVEL.
Nintendo took some notes and did the same with Skyward Sword via amiibo lol.
They cancelled tagami TCG and Durango Wildlands those are the tow games that good for the mobile platform but only wanted money
O
This was also why the original rumor of the the creator of p3 leaving nexon was his choice because of greed
Corrections I found in this
1. the employees left after the project was cancelled not fired.
2. the lawsuit is over stolen code, nothing about assets
3. employees working under & for any specific IP that intellectual property belongs to the company. This means you can't just go recreate the same game under a different company. (It's written within the confines of your contract of employment under "Most" game development companies.)
4. even if the things charlie claims in this video about assets are true or false the game is identical to P3.
Not defending either side but go do your own research before forming an opinion.
Yes, you are correct. I hate Nexon and I want to go to Korea just to burn their company down. But Ironmace should see this coming miles away, Imagine if this happened to vavle where a few devs left and "made" Half-life 3. Oh and the project wasn't cancelled it was delayed P3 becoming P7
@@vicxentgg4969 I think it's common place to have a distaste for most Korean ran gaming companies. Also, I didn't know that I hope either dark and darker remains playable if it's concluded that there was no crime taken place, Or P7 gets released.
A customs shop I worked for did this type of thing, a lot of former employees including myself brought up ideas that the owner didn’t want to use because “it didn’t fit the work culture”, even as far as saying they wouldn’t work. These were not only ideas on how to run the shop more efficiently but also what other services we could offer and a certain price point. When those employees quit or got fired, he would use those same ideas and take all the credit saying he was the one who thought of them. Fuck RTP Customs in Alpharetta, GA.
Glad you called them out by name.
Nexon is the type of company to throw a fit because their cousin has a cooler balloon animal than them, so they're doing all they can to pop it.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Nice
@@Instabruh.User.. ok bot
Dark and Darker is such an amazing game. Nexon just realized they fucked up and now they want it. Corporate greed knows no bounds.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts
@DiscordUser302butttt you don’t..
The guy had his idea ripped from him because of corporate greed lol.
Worst part is that even if they got it they wouldnt do anything with it, ruin it and throw it to the trash
@Patrick39 stop with these dumbass bots.
Before they were called "fps" they were called "doom clones"
They were called "Doom-likes", not Doom-clones.
@@brenturner1160 Just like darker and darker has rogues and wizards like any other rpg game. Yet they claim it be a clone, it's interchangeable like many things. It depends who is using it and when. The defention of the word rarely matters.
@@BillyBob-xr3tl the reason why they go after dark and darker is the FACT that the game the lead dev worked on, P3, looks pretty much identical to dark and darker, same art style, same gameplay, even same assets in some cases.
From what i have heard the theory at the moment is that P3 got sacked by nexxon, so the lead dev, or someone close to him leaked the code for the game, then the lead dev got fired from nexxon and took the leaked P3 code and made D&D with it and allegedly he took P3 stuff and used it to show to Investors so fund his company to get the funds to make the game. So Nexxon is going after the lead dev for stealing / leaking the sourcecode from P3 and for espionage because he stole work from other devs from P3 allegedly.
It will be interesting if nexxon can prove it or if ironmace just goes bankrupt before all this shit is over, i hope they do, but with an opponent like nexxon which has pretty much infinite money for this shit it looks dark for ironmace
@TheMossy Possible but how many times have we seen big companies lie to get what they wanted. I've been watching night agent and an agent finds evidence that people in the white house took part in a cover up so they came forward before this agent could and publicly shamed him and made him out to be a terriost/traitor even though he was trying to prevent the corrupt people in power from abusing their power like they did to label a man just doing his job to protect his country as a terrorist. It's hard for me to take anything a big company or politican says at face value. They got to where they are from kicking other people off the ladder to success. They aren't good people they lie and deceive to get what they want.
@@brenturner1160 They were either never called that at all or called both of those interchangeably. 'Doom clone' is a very old term. Weird hill to die on.
The smoking gun... Nexon filed copyrights for P3 last month. So about 2 years after the project was cancelled, and right after Dark and Darker was gaining a lot of popularity.
its likely true but proves nothing on its own, they could argue they copyrighted it once they found out and had proof that Ironmace was using stolen code, assets and IP that belongs to them and that they did it to protect their IP
@@King_Flippy_Nips Just like Ironma e could say they are regretting firing me and canceling my game because they are mad they made more money, similar to dots and blizzard. Blizzard turn down the dota dev because they took his idea and started development on heroes of the storm. So he went to valve. Guess what blizzard flopped on heroes and would 110% go after dota if it was any other company but valve. Because a lawsuit with valve would just end up with everyone losing money and nothing getting done. Nexon is going after Irondale because it's a baby. Stealing candy from a baby. Cowards know no bounds.
@@BillyBob-xr3tl or maybe the dota dev didnt allegedly leak the fkn sourcecode for the game and made an identical twin of the game he got paid by nexxon to make. Yes Nexxon is a shit company and yes D&D is a great game but you cant just leak fkn sourcecode and pretend like you get through with it if the thing you make out of your stolen sourcecode gets traction, especially not if you steal from a shitty, blood sucking company like nexxus. Yes its is shit but honestly it should have been predictable by the lead dev that they WILL go after him if his game has any meaningful success
Tell me you know nothing about copyright without telling me you know nothing about copyright.
@@muffinhydra Are you actually going to say what you disagree with, or are you just pretending to be intelligent in UA-cam comments?
I feel so bad for the people working a Ironmace, imagine putting your heart and soul into a game and having nearly everyone who played your game say nothing but good thing about it only to have some greedy gaming company not only claim you stole their code and assets but actually have your game removed from the most popular online store for pc games.
I mean steam is a pretty bad store I don't know why most companies bother with it. Like its big but you get scammed either way as user and seller. I'd probably say even the Microsoft store is better, like atleast if you've got an issue they'll help you. With steam you'll buy games, not get them and then they'll say steam doesn't moderate its own sales or something f*cking bs.
On top op that steam also obviously never looks into anything and only has the most f*cking r*t*rded bots ever reply the same dumb stuff that clearly tells you they took no time to look what you even said and just told you to kys.
Compared to the ms store where I had an issue similar to what I had with steam but instead of having to attempt a refund through PayPal as steam wouldn't refund for something I hadn't gotten. The ms store had actual humans that actually solved all the issues I had within like 30 min.
@Discord User No.
It's a bot, ignore them
Nice huge run-on sentence.
@@bofasofa9399 its a youtube comment not an essay lil bro
Massive companies already have enough of a strangle hold on the world as it is. They don't need the crutch of the legal system that allows them to say "Oh, your bank account is smaller than mine? And I don't like you? Guess you're life is over now."
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts 💨
That's why the American system is so fucked up. In many other countries, whoever loses a lawsuit has to cover all expenses of the lawsuit, including the lawyers of the other side.
@@silphonym what? That’s how it is in the US? I think you need reread your comment
@@theonewhouploadsnothing1704he wrote it right. It is in other countries that the losing party has to pay all expenses. In the US the system sucks.
@@heronekkotheanimer7386 And you read the one below it wrong. That's _also_ how it is in the US. If you lose, you have to pay for the expenses. Problem is, that the smaller companies can't often keep going till they win. You're billed throughout.
i work in the game dev industry, and one of the things we ALWAYS have to sign as a new employee, in even the smallest companies, is a contract saying we wont release anything of our own that would compete with the employer. the wording really is as vague as that. it applies not just during employment, but also after employment with a duration determined by the contract (usually a few years). so even if you didnt actually steal anything, if its competing for the same target market (like by being the same genre for example), it can be considered competition and breaking the contract. they do this for this very reason, they dont want employees stealing ideas for potential competition on the side.
my guess is dark and darker devs simply broke this contract.
the idea of a company being able to copyright an idea is absolutely disgusting tbh an idea is not an ip, you cant copyright that or nothing will ever be created again. everything is derivative
Charlie talking about how he knew where the assets came from is so funny. I can’t imagine what goes through a companies head to make outlandish claims that can be spotted by anyone
It comes from greed, or some other deadly sin. Except Sloth.
No, really, though. Think about it.
When companies/people do this, it's often because they really think they deserve it, or might be able to get away with it.
@@TrueLadyEvilChan Lust also
fun fact: DMCA claims can and already spawn lawsuits against the claimants and there's even a perjury penalty, I just wish more would sue.
because it costs money to the person being taken to court by them,it's literally just a petty attack on a company, because someone got out of their grasp and started making something great, but they either don't want that person to have success, or they're entitled to the idea that they caused it (with the time they had them onboard) and so should get compensation.
Not defending naxon at all but recognizing half the assets doesn't really prove anything. Its not a defense. That should be obvious. You're jumping on the coattails of Charlie's statement that at best suggests that half the assets aren't stolen and acting like its a locked in win. Not saying they stole anything but knowing where half the assets originated doesn't prove anything. Smh.
The first 15 seconds Charlie says Nexon, I'm instantly said "Ah yes, no wonder"
Everyone who plays Nexon's Maplestory also sighs heavily... God dammit, Nexon...
Yeaaaaah I don't even know the full story and I was like "Yup, I played Nexus TK when I was 8 years old back in 1998." I absolutely loved that game when I was a kid but looking back at all the Nexon games I played they were traaaaash. Gonna be interesting to see what shit they've been up to since I last heard of them.
Yeah, Nexxon is such a shit tier company.
Everyone who played Combat Arms said "Ah yes, no wonder"
@@Ziperino holy shit yup. Man I miss Combat Arms
Sounds like a classic case of attempted intimidation. Corporations sometimes try this sort of thing to eliminate competition. But they may also later attempt to make a "deal" with them to get profits off of the game by saying something like: "We won't do any more legal action if we partner".
This reminds me of the contract Walt Disney made his animators and artist sign that basically said anything they created or drew while employed with Disney became Disney property.
Plot twist: nexon just thinks that when you purchase unreal assets, you are the only one allowed to use it.
The funny thing about this is that if memory serves right, Epic Games will literally have to step in to protect THEIR copyright, and sue Nexon, if Nexon successfully sues Ironmouse. Otherwise, Nexon could become the new rights holder of these assets, since Epic Games didn't protect them within a certain time frame.
@@maxgehtdnixan4913 Ironmouse?
@@maxgehtdnixan4913 that would be beautiful, and would be the only thing i’d support Epic on
We all know while you work at a giant corporation they own you, your likeness and any semblance of a soul you have.
@@Instabruh.User.. pour boiling milk on your skull
^Don't give this bot any attention
Ever
If the bot is still there you can report it for misinformation or unwanted commercial advertisements btw
@@oneyearunderUA-cam needs to start banning these dog shit bots, I’m surprised they haven’t because it’s really embarrassing for UA-cam.
bro you never worked in your life.
if you live in africa or nigeria yes its like that
But you proply have a normal life a literally 0815 standard otto normal human you are
And still you cry bout it?
Bro if somebody is over your position he deserved it and of course youre not on the same lvl
You sign a paper that say you sell your time and your skills in that job for that time for that money.
So in that time youre his worker
He dosnt have your soul youre just his worker.
If you cry about that i dont wanna see you working in my job.
You definetly couldnt survive any important job with your attitude.
Glad big youtubers are bringing this to light this is a huge issue because when big companies are attacking small ones you need publicity
I hope dark and darker can recover from this. I love the game so much, and hope it can finally release into early access.
Good news, they won't.
@@KoreanSpy1997 And how is this good news?
@@AnOptimisticNihilist Got what they deserve.
@@KoreanSpy1997 And why is that?
Thanks for bringing light to Nexon as a company. As someone that used to play their games for years, I've noticed that in the more recent times, something weird's been going on there, resulting in numerous scandals and some of their longtime, community-loved higher-ups having left the company. Nexon is able to fly under the radar because the mainstream western consumer market doesn't know too much about them. Seeing this behavior from them is a new low, so I'm glad you're bringing this to light.
Yeah, it's good to see ol' Charles bringing attention to a company the west doesn't know much about. To this day, the only great game Nexon has is MapleStory but I haven't played that in a few years so IDK if they changed anything in a negative way.
Nexon was a shit company since the very beginning, with tragic policy regarding anything, they never loved their community. Just look at their cashcow Maple Story, highly priced skins that last (at least used to) only 90 days, ridiculous autoban system that could ban your account for leveling too fast simply playing their events, shipping same bugs through multiple versions of maplestory through all the versions and leaving them untouched for years. For example EU Maple was behind few years in updates compared to korean and still would get patch with bugs that they knew about years earlier! For example you would lose your character because some locations could just crash your client, good luck waiting for fix. These are literally only few of many many many wrong things they do or ignore.
Honestly if you play nexon's games for years you'd already think they're a bad company just from the decisions they make on almost every game they have. Putting questionable and unnecessary monetization overtime like one of the recent ones, kurtzpel for example. At first it was such a good game, the game dev is very supportive towards the players but nexon said nope. And just put microtransactions over everything, remove the free stuff and all. The team that actually works for the game couldn't do anything about it and watch their playcount crashing down.
@Nerumi A corporation's only priority is to make the line go up every quarter.
That is ALL they care about, and they take an oath to the investors to uphold this.
When a game goes corporate, you are nothing but a wallet to them.
Dude it isnt recent, Nexon has been like this FOREVER. They not only butcher every IP they own but dont give a rats ass about consumers, their own IP, or other developers and will only listen when money is involved.
One funny thing I remember from when I use to Play Maplestory was there was a particular map where they kept all the event related NPCs which made it easy for players to access them instead of having to go to multiple places to access the event NPCs you needed. Which sounded good on paper and was good for a short time. They also kept NPC's from past events like the Xmas NPCs. Keep in mind that a lot of people who played this game had really low spec computers including myself at that time.
Anyways they kept adding and adding new NPCs to that area so naturally it started to slow people's computers down when they accessed that area. Eventually it got so bad that lots of people couldn't even go there without it being a "slide show". The frames were just that bad. So for months the players kept pestering Nexon to fix it. And I shit you not Nexons solution to this issue was to turn the non current event NPC's Invisible. Which as you can surmise didn't do shit. To this day that is the stupidest and funniest way i've ever seen a company "patch" an issue. They did eventually fix it but that was a ways down the line. As to how people found out the NPC's were invisible some guy on Reddit had made a mod that revealed it.
Jesus christ, imagine buying this game that time and the dev keeps false fixing it until now lmfao deserve for them.
@@granzon7396 Ah well. maplestory is a free to play mmorpg
ive played riders of icarus(its now in the valofe cemetery), they once released a ptw pet that when you convert it to a crystal or something your character becomes OP. Like most health a player had would be around 150k but now it can be over 1M! Only thing they did was to remove it from stores but didnt remove it from peoples' inventories because they didnt wanna give money back. I dont follow the game anymore because its pretty dead but you can see how stupid they are just from this.
To bad because i loved that game, it had its issues but the concept is amazing. If it didnt have such a bad company to run it im sure itd be top.
I had always wanted to play maplestory but my normie computers and internet couldn't handle it. 😔
@@smoppet Yeah, I had trouble playing the game on popukated servers as a kid. My singl core processor couldn't handle it.
Charloe, the Dark and Darker devs literally WORKED AT NEXON on P3 and the code of that game got leaked when the game was cancelled.. the accusation is that not only does the game look and use many elements P3 did assets names and otherwise, but that they literally took the leaked code too.
Yes, I hate Nexon but doing something like this is just below the belt. They could change the aesthetics or what not but no, literally the exact same game, visually at least.
I have never heard of these companies and games before, but this video alone made me want to buy Dark and Darker when it gets back on Steam. I hope it does.
Back in February when they released its 3rd Playtest, I played it during the end when my friends told me about it, I’ve been addicted to the game. When it finally ended, the amount of withdrawal I am experiencing without this game is insane, never have I ever felt this over a game before, it was so fun and easy to understand, no special mechanics, straight up PvPvE gameplay was so fun, anyone can do good at this game. You don’t need to be a chess master genius or a Head Clicking FPS master, this game was made for anyone and I have been counting day by day waiting for the next playtest which is supposed to come out in April 14, hope to see you there fellow gamer!
@@bossyman10 we will see if Ironmace stays in buisness for that long but we can only hope
Basically nexon = scummy big company that take control of smaller companies mainly gacha games (online gambling games) and make them insanely pay to win. I've never heard of dark and darker either but now I'm tempted to look into it. nexon can suck a fat one
It’s not going to sadly.
@@nunyabusiness7942 :(
This should be a learning moment for people: Never pitch your own ideas to your boss because you can lose the rights to them sometimes. The IP of an employee on the clock can easily become the IP of the company.
basically like working in Disney. you wouldn't let them know your own independent creative ideas off the job because disney owns the rights of anything people make while employed under Disney. (even if disney doesn't ever do anything with the material)
Like a dragon hoards it's gold.
Sometimes companies will take your idea if you were working with them(even if you NEVER revealed any information about it)
That’s like the entire modus operendi of Capitalism lol
@@donjulio420Capitalism has brought you and continues to bring you exorbitant products. Without it, there are no video games. A legal contract under law pernits this, not the free market, in which superior products succeed and inferior fail, generating content voted on with capital by the public. As long as people buy.
@@ghostlyhousehorrors So what you're saying is, if I work in Disney and make illegal material is it technically Disney's creation?
They probably thought of this.
As someone who was born and raised in Korea, I can say with a high degree of certainty that Nexon is our version of EA.
Looks like it's even worse, at least EA had some good and worldwide popular games. All the games Nexon made seem to be a low effort unpopular garbage, and now they're attacking a small company whose first game is more popular than all their trash games ever were combined
@@deepderp8483 nexon was big in the 2000s but they just fell off
@@deepderp8483 IDK MapleStory is their most popular one for a good reason
@@Hauntaku a very unforgiving gameplay with heavy P2W element?
@@deepderp8483 except DnD was orginally nexons idea and Ironmace stole it, lol
When I worked at target we had to sign a contract that stated any blueprint ideas, toys, clothing, etc was property of them. By working there any idea of creativity was sparked because of their products and that we couldn’t create our ideas for sale or else we’d be likely sued. Imagine having an idea and not being able to sell it cause a company thinks it’s theirs… scummy ass world we live in
i didnt even know about this till i went on steam to check when the next playtest was going to be, and all of a sudden i couldnt find Dark And Darker and it was no longer in my wishlist.
i was so sad to have found out that a company that started out small would bully a smaller company thats just starting out.
"There's a scummy company"
"Dear god"
"They're in the video game market"
'No..."
"But wait, there's more..."
What are they not in.... But they are not the bad guys the bad guys are the ones controlling and attacking them...
@@Fvcky0uverymuch the bad guy are in the making video games business, they just made one mediocre game for children that got popular, and now they are attempting to use their company to ruin a good game they displayed no interest in making
can I keep the bucket?
My sarcasm gland is broken as fck too...
My tinfoil hat theory is that since they failed to prove there were any stolen assets, Nexon is trying to tie them up in litigation long enough to ressurect and release P3. A company of that size probably only needs 6-12 months to do that - less if they already spun it up back when Dark and Darker boomed last winter
even if they did, no one is going to play it knowing this is what they have done
@@Sophice and that's where you're wrong, kiddo.
gamers dont care about morality. they want to play the game, and they want to play it now.
microtransactions, loot boxes. terrible business practices etc. they still support them, buy the battle pass and then spend more money on skins. they cant help themselves.
@@Sophice you have far too much faith in the average gamer lol. They consume whatever overpriced buggy slop gets placed in front of them
@@Sophiceever heard of Activision Blizzard
@@drowningfellow6011 unfortunatly so i play wow and diablo lol
Sounds like they’re trying to litigate the small company until they go broke. Happens all the time as attorney fees usually aren’t awarded in courts, and you can’t do much with a company without cash on hand.
I remember reading though my Terms of Employment from a little while back and there was a clause that stated that any ideas or etc you've had during during tenure, become the intellectual property of the company
Idea cannot be intellectual property
Thanks Charlie for bringing this 'Big corporate douchebaggery' out the light. I feel like fans and gamers mostly kids and teens don't know how evil these companies truly are.
Nexxon is just one of them and they were exposed now but these bullying is happening all the time with other big companies as well
@Dream ⸜⁄ you are gay
@Dream ⸜⁄ Bro you did not just try to make a fake ass verification check with two slashes.
I mean if IronMace actually stole code(and/or assets) that was written at Nexon during work hours for Nexon's P3 project and used it in Dark & Darker they deserve this shit. What if employees got fired/quit from a small indie company and took that code with them to a bigger company who then made a successful game based on that code/those assets would you feel the same way?
@Dream ⸜⁄ nahh not the two dashes for verification mark 😹😹 u neva making it out brotha
@Dream ⸜⁄ we not making it out of the hood with the 2 slashes verification mark💀💀😭
Really hoping this turns into another "It Takes Two" scenario where this controversy only ends up blowing up in Nexon's face, and Dark and Darker becomes extremely popular just to spite them.
What happened to "It Takes Two"?
What? What happened with It Takes Two?
@@Chad-bc9vi It Takes Two developers were sued by Take-Two because of that the game has similar name to the company (at least in their stupid heads).
@@dragoryuu9506 wait really? That's stupid lol
Except in this case Nexon actually has legal ground to stand on. That situation with It Takes Two was an attempt to scare and bully them into submission, not actually win a legal battle.
Unfortunately many companies have a contract clause that states that any idea you have while working there is their intellectual property. Companies in general are usually anti-employee when they can be.
I remember playing Monster Squad (mobile game by Nexon) when I was like 12 or 13 on my old tablet. Then Nexon shut down their servers in December 2016 for seemingly no reason, two years after the game's release. I never had respect for Nexon since. That game was some of my happiest memories, and I don't think that I've ever had another mobile game since that I liked more since, or one that was more nostalgic. Earlier in 2021, I remembered the game suddenly, and decided I'd go for a nostalgia trip. I had broken my tablet in early 2016 (didn't know the servers were down yet as a result) and I never played the game again on my phone, so I go install it, and boom, what do you know, servers down, have been since 2016. My soul was crushed, and I don't think I've ever felt more utterly heartbroken over a game. Screw Nexon man :(
I'm so happy to see Monster Squad being brought up in a YT comment out of all places, that game was amazing, no game on mobile feels the same with how it's hectic 2d combat flows and how unnecessarily hard the designs went. Sad to see it go down
man I miss that game, and I went searching for it around the same time. the only remnants of that game are a single playlist of old walkthroughs, a few cube openings, and some very nostalgic music.
HOLY SHIT THAT WAS NEXON??? AND PEOPLE PLAYED THAT GAME??? Shits crazy
How jealous and greedy of a company do you have to be to police raid and sue a tiny developer team for "stealing" your game idea, even though you fired the developer behind the OG game in the first place. Hope Dark and Darker devs win this legal battle and get their game back on Steam.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
How jealous and greedy?
Just your average company
I mean yeah they stole company files yup, thats pretty bad
@@p-__ is that because you stole Charlie's farts?
@@thechugg4372 they didn't steal any company files what are you talking about?
Hey charlie I doubt you'll notice me but I was the one that sent you tons of articles and the information about all of this directly after it was released on their discord.
I just wanted to say, thank you so much for covering this. This is incredibly important to me. Much love man
who calls message from media controlled discord an information lol
@@WhyUA-camSucks Anybody that knows the definition of "information," probably
@@WhyUA-camSucks huh??? I sent like 3-5 articles that were in Korean last night to him because everything that was being released last night was all in Korea, no news was being put out about the situation in America yet, because ironmace ONLY disclosed this inoformation about the DMCA in their discord, they didn’t even tweet it.
So I was reading everything and up to date on the entire situation 2 hours after it was announced, and I highly doubt critikal used any of the sources I sent, or even cared to look at my message in the first place, because he’s bombarded I’m sure with nonsense DM’s on the daily. I was quite literally reading the Korean “Wikipedia” In real time as it was being updated from new information on the ironmace vs nexon situation, so I had more information at the time than likely 80% of people or more had.
But I was mainly just trying to express my gratitude for covering the situation, because it’s very important to me.
@@FienX_don’t worry about explaining yourself to troglodytes on UA-cam, they usually don’t have enough brain cells to rub together to have an opinion worth listening to, and they definitely don’t have enough to understand any body else’s opinions.
@@Instabruh.User.. weird how random nobody accounts get taken over by fake pron scammers but doofus nobody accounts like this dont... they target the wrong people smh
It will be devastating if DaD is shelved forever because of this corporate greed. It’s been such a breath air compared to most of the trash games that get released these days, and the devs at ironmace seemed so genuine and passionate about their game..
We need to game to be a success for so many reasons
"Dad"
from what i have heard the lead dev is getting investigated on because he allegedly leaked the sourcecode from P3 as he got fired or something. DaD is a great game but stealing sourcecode is a fkn no-go, even if you steal from shit companies like Nexxon.
@@MildlyInterested_ “or something”
I think maybe you should look into it more before making such bold statements
You mean great.
That game is shit, and so are the devs.
imagine if all those farming simulators acted like this
I hope Ironmace countersues them. There's already too much DMCA abuse, it's time these companies started feeling it in their wallet when they make a false DMCA claim.
Ironmace is likely screwed here. They don't really have a case to justify their blatant theft. Go watch Kira's video or look up the screenshots of the P3 game, Ironmace straight up copied their game. The only way they could've done that is if they're an ex-employee.
I hate the thought of defending Nexon, but they're almost certainly going to win legal battles over this. If Ironmace were smart they'd rally the community behind them for monetary support, drop the current game entirely and make their own version that doesn't look exactly like Nexon's.
@@BunnyArisu I guess they own Unreal assets
@@BunnyArisu troll
@@BunnyArisu My man, you cannot copyright a genre. They cannot copyright "pvpve dungeon crawler". That is not how the law works. Literally almost every single asset in the game can be found on the unreal store. "Blatant theft" is literally being misused in your post. Blatantly. There is already a multitude of legal precedent when it comes to the copyrighting of a genre. The devs of Nioh weren't sued by FromSoft for making a game with the exact same template to the point where it's literally referred to as "Souls-Like". There is a reason for that. What Nexon is doing is trying to drown the small studio in legal fees by dragging out a pointless legal battle, because they have realized they missed out on a cashcow and don't want ex-employees to be able to cash out on it.
@@benjaminbrown3939 no, he’s partly correct. Even if they prove that the assets are public domain and nothing was stolen, there’s still the legal funds, and Nexon could bleed Iron Mace dry and kill the project that way, by continuously dragging the case on and on.
4:18 Everyone knows the story of the infamous Nexon rock. It's even so notorious that it has it's own subreddit of games it has been featured in. Truly a rock of all time
@@Instabruh.User.. yeah yeah sure
@@Saver310 Do not reply to it. It makes it harder to get rid of the bot.
Wait wait really?
Nevermind i googled it.
Did I hear a rock and stone?
Dark and Darker was easily one of the best games I've ever seen overall for a beta stage experience. So much fun, and I have high hopes that this situation will not stop Ironmace from completing what will be one of the best PVPVE experiences possible.
Can't wait for the next play test. It's troubling to hear about these problems.
Nexon is pulling a card straight from the Fine Bros playbook, wanting to copyright an idea like they wanted to copyright the React Genre.
shit, you got to it before me 😂
@Discord User No.
Sounds like when PUBG tried to sue fortnite for stealing the game genre. With that logic Nintendo needs to start sueing all 2d platforms any kind from stealing from Mario and of course any and all Metroidvania games. This is so fucking dumb. I hope Nexxon gets counter sued
@@ct2586 don't give Nintendo ideas, they might actually do that
@@ct2586 they would if they could tbf
Charlie is the father, teacher, and news reporter we never knew we needed
I knew bro. Deep down in my heart.
NPC comment
Charlie is Father christ
jesus the bots they’re everywhere
food critic** milk connoisseur***
I work at a Company that made me sign a contract that if i have an idea that's USED in any shape or form by them, it's their idea not mine anymore, so maybe, just maybe it could be something like this, but not for me to defend those guys at Nexon. If they knew from step 1 which game was, what kind of things the game is doing that "it's from my company", and who those people were, they could've dealt with this earlier, it would've been best for both parties all things considered. Hope they can clutch this out!
How to ignore a company on steam: Click on publisher title > On the publisher page > Click the "options" icon next to the "report" flag > Select the ignore option.
Nexon might have been able to kill the game by removing it from the steam store, killing it's momentum. But since Charlie is covering it, now it will have a bigger following than ever before when it finally comes back online.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
That's if it comes back, IRONMACE is a Korean company and non competes are nearly mandatory when anyone gets fired over there. So you have the lead developers all having signed non competes with Nexon, who is still working on P3 internally, going on to make Dark and Darker, a direct competitor to P3. Hopefully they can work something out, but it doesn't look good to be honest for IRONMACE if even a fraction of what Nexon is saying it true
This is almost certainly the death of Dark and Darker. Nexon actually has a case here, even if it's shitty for us.
@Hai Hai they don't tho, no assets were stolen. A baseless accusation like this will get dismissed
@@Zephyr-Queen How could you POSSIBLY know this information?
Us maplestory fans are the least surprised by Nexons actions
Stole their idea? How would they steal an idea on something that has not even been released? They don’t get to claim an idea was stolen on something that wasn’t even created while employed at the company.
A lot of cases are dismissed due to lack of evidence, or similarly settled out of court. I'm not sure they could even get as far as bleeding the smaller dev dry if they have nothing to begin with.
Your ending comments are very much in line with my perspective on the overall concept of patents and trademarking law. If you come up with an idea that your company decides not to pursue, you should have the right to pursue it yourself. And even more so, I believe that if someone comes up with an idea that gets patented, they should have a limited amount of time to implement it into a product or else it becomes a published idea that anyone can use. This was also why we got 3D printers 30+ years later than we should've which is sad because it stifles progress. Unfortunately, that's just not how the law works. Before signing on with my company, I was required to acknowledge any ideas I have that are related to the company's products become the property of the company (Ideas, drawings, builds, even just scribbles on a napkin, etc.). There are exceptions under California state law when it comes to inventions one comes up with outside of work (Assuming inventions are considered ideas, this can also apply to the arts), but almost always, if you come up with an idea, it becomes automatically owned by the company while under their employment assuming they wrote their employment contract correctly, which they usually do.
Oh screw that! Lol
You wanna claim my personal projects because they’re somehow similar to something I made for your company, then you’re gonna be taking them from my corpse.
And I can mean that literally. I don’t have a shit to give and way _way_ too much buried anger and bitterness.
It's insane that we live in a world where you can be lawful evil
I have so much respect for Charlie always sticking up for the little guy
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts
lol
@@p-__ what the fuuuu
@@Someonethefunnyone that's the funniest bot of them all! Well there is also that one saying it feels sexually attracted to donuts. Anyways it brings a smile to my face someone uses these pesky bots we all hate this way
Isnt *he* the little guy?
that employee should had stayed silence about his idea,and just leave the company. toxic gossip its disgusting.
"They stole our assets!"
"From what IP?"
"Well. About that..."
letting nexon know this is just making me want to buy dark and darker even more. hope the game gets reinstated
nexon is just doing what apple does at a much smaller scale. big companies buy power and bully competitors till they are dead. its just the bigger the company the more power they have to manipulate the masses with their friends in media.
It’s not it’s canceled confirmed
@@itsm9818 Wtf yu talking bout on there official discord they talked bout how there gunna fight it.
@@sm3ghe4d22 this guy loved maple stories fr
Unfortunately many companies like Nexon have their employees sign contacts stating that any and all "intellectual property" (Ideas included) that are thought of at the workplace belong to the company where it was thought up. Literally its the most B.S. clause in many contracts that people just ignore but it's come back to absolutely ruin some people's lives by having companies swoop in and steal their idea and hard work.
“Stolen code from a game we never released”
THEN HOW WAS IT STOLEN?!?!
The Krabby Patty formula examples is absolutely golden and on point.
Nexon is like that leader of a middle school rock band who bullied one of the members for a song they wrote, but when he left to publish the song himself and got famous for it, they got toxic and said "You stole OUR idea"
Nobody writing a song that gets them famous in 7th grade
@@nesresnac9178 -🤓🤓🤓 (its an analogy, the point still stands)
@@nesresnac9178 oh arent you just a little ball of sunshine, I'm sure you're a pleasure to be around
@@Alltos it is a bad analogy, cry
@@rhoodolph cope
Nexon also made Combat Arms. The biggest fps game in the world back in 2008. Their fall off is so astonishing it should be studied.
Wow that’s crazy, forgot combat arms existed
combat arms was fun but so p2w it was crazy
I used to play that game all the time
My first PC FPS. It had a lot of potential. I’m a GOA (five star) rank on that game. Agreed.
Two ways about it, 1. either the ex-employee submitted and filed the idea/concept, it was not accepted to be implemented(iced/shelved) but accepted to be filed and claimed in their asset library(hence property but to what extent? just idea? codes and model assets?) OR 2. It is the realisation they missed the train here and try to cawk block a competitor from going big on something they should have done. In the case of 2. , they achieved it, they blocked the competitor and it is off steam. The classic "throw monkey wrench into the works" play. It is a pity though, I was looking forward to seeing the next roadmap testing on streaming plays by OJ, Alex and Flippy.
If it is stolen then I support Nexon. Doesn't matter what it is. I could be one line of code and Dark and Darker should still get sued. You cannot just go an steal things from people and companies no matter how small or how big even with Nexon being a shitty a company. Not only that, but those employees would have had to agree to a legal contract while working at Nexon. You cannot go against the fine print. Now if Nexon is in the wrong then I support Dark and Darker, however all of this is she said he said, so no one should be believed, therefore making this drama invalid.
Maybe Dark and Darker could put up a gofundme, that way fans can donate money to help with the legal funds
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
Kickstarter would be better
as someone who's played maplestory on and off for years i can confirm that nexon is a grimy company, they don't even pay their sponsored streamers with real money they give them NX (paid in game currency)
Its so funny how even the Maplestory subreddit got a tag (which I believe is being used the most) called "Literally unplayable" which is full with either incompetence with the Nexon team and GMs or how the game is so money-driven that players will just quit
@Dream ⸜⁄ even if you are the real one your using the fake checkmark and you dont even have real content if anyone is reading this dont watch it
bruh so its like some guy works as a monkey mascot so they pay him in bannanas
(just a weird comparrison)
When I realized there payed in game items are temporary. I never looked back. I tried there DFO. But it was a huge waste of time at the end of the day.
I cant be the only one that thinks this take is a bit clouded by bias no?
One look at P3 gameplay, the dev having worked on the project, the allegations on the dev leaking, then getting fired to then work at IRONMACE, and then Dark and Darker being the same game conceptually makes me lean towards Nexon having a case here.
For example: Lets say I worked on Fortnite. Fortnite was struggling so the company ventured into creating possible concepts to save the game. I worked on the team for the Fortnite battle royale mode called "F1." I then leave Epic for a smaller company and sell them the idea of "a third person shooter battle royale but you build structures and destroy the environment for materials." What's the theme? "cartoony." It doesn't matter if I then get all of the actual assets from the unreal store instead, the concept was taken and Epic can no longer release Fortnite BR without dealing with a nightmare of trouble. There's a reason most, if not all, companies contractually inform you that anything you create/work on when employed by the company is company property.
Same case if I was part of the team for GODSLAP and then left to create MEGASLAPPERS to release it using my own artstyle before the first GODSLAP could be officially announced. Meatier would be 100% in the right to sue me for that.
And for those saying "Nexon wouldn't have done anything if the game didn't get big"
Well, yeah, duh. Why is this such a point of contention? Companies do cost benefit analysis all the time. If Dark and Darker flopped, the cost of the internal investigation, external investigation, hiring people, dealing with legal, creating a court case, etc. wouldn't be worth resecuring the stolen IP.
On that note, if your argument contains any of the following:
Nexon = greedy
Nexon is jealous
I like Dark and Darker
Contracts are stupid
You're a bot
Nexon propaganda
Or anything similar
Then maybe take a step back for a bit, no one is arguing Nexon isn't a company with poor practices. No one is saying Dark and Darker was bad. This is down to if assets/concepts were used, created and/or taken from P3 during employment at Nexon. This would be an insider information breach, not a breach of "I wanted to play Dark and Darker but Nexon be hella stinky frfr."
Do I think Nexon would have made P3 good? No. Do I think Nexon is a good company? No. Do I think IRONMACE is as innocent and as much of the victim as everyone says? Probably not.
Keep in mind, this was made with all the current information I am aware of at this moment. The best thing to do is to wait until whatever court case happens when everything is laid out on the table before solidifying your opinions. Also, I'm not a laywer, take everything I said with a grain of salt, just my two cents.
I've read that some game studios will tell people not to send them game ideas. Reason being, if that game studio did make a game similar to an idea that someone sent them, then that person could claim the game studio stole their idea and there'd be legal trouble. I don't know if that would hold up in court but it is something that studios think about. Regardless, pretty scummy from Nexon to do this.
I personally don't think that would hold in court. People have to copyright stuff so they hold the right to certain things/ideas, if people just recommend stuff they are willingly giving away ideas others can use. Many games "copy" or "take inspiration" from other games and reuse certain ideas in a similar way and usually do not get sued over it. Many things like the greek Mythos falls under public use since no one can copyright it I think so every media that has greek myth inspiration can't be sued for it.
One of my favorite examples since I absolutely hate Genshin Impact is their survey when their game first came out. It showed all the games they took inspiration from and I saw certain attacks/animations from my favorite games like Devil May Cry and Nier Automata being recreated in Genshit. Another example but I don't hate is Splitgate, it is HEAVILY inspired by Halo, it has similar mechanics, weapons and movement and gampleay only difference is it has portals, that didn't get sued for either despite being "Halo with portals".
Another example that I hate also comes from Mihoyo (creators of Genshin Impact), they have another game called Honkai Impact and their main character is basically Bayonetta; she has a super similar moveset to Bayonetta and Bayonetta has a moveset I have not seen anywhere else so it looks like they took the idea for Bayonetta and instead of summoning demon limbs for attacks it's big robot limbs Personally I think they should have made her have a basic moveset instead of copying Bayonetta. Mihoyo also uses Judgement cut effects in many attacks for some reason and it's used in bad taste since it ruins the spectacle and scale of the attack Vergil uses in DMC, again they could have just gone for a more basic moveset instead of trying to recreate already cool ideas but significantly worse..
And yes I am a proud Mihoyo hater.
This is not only a games industry issue but a greater media industry issue in general. For example, the KyoAni arsonist's motive was perceived idea theft (this is an extreme example and idk if he actually sent them ideas, but I think it illustrates the kind of lunacy people have with stuff like this).
You cannot copyright the idea....
I hope they aren't able to bleed them dry with legal funds, this is one of my favorite games and I would be so sad if they aren't able to release it because of this, there should be a crowdfund started for the legal fees, because even if they win they will be down so much money it's ridiculous.
My farts are better than Charlie’s farts.
I think that regardless of the outcome, Ironmace will rebound with support from their fans.
They probably will have to delay release but the internet will probably support them even if they got bled dry.
@@p-__ can you prove it?
we, or Korea, need a bill designed for malicious lawsuits. This is an example of one
@@binguschingus4071 it's a bot, just report the account and don't reply to it
When you fire your talent, you have to be fully aware that they may make products outside of your company that can compete directly with your products. They can't just take the L I suppose, they have to throw a legal tantrum.
This is very normal in Korea. as a Korean I can say that they will 95% lose the court case. but since this game is pretty huge something might change for this game. There are many smaller game where major company "Nexon" bullied to remove just to get an monopoly.
however, nexon wouldn't touch other major development company (most of the time)
BTW this isnt for only gaming. this is for ANY STARTUP. Samsung gets involved in these and SKT and other big korean company.
When you say "they will 95% lose the court case", do you mean Nexon or Iron Mace?
@@ORION720_ Nexon
Charlie was so animated doing the sarcastic impression of someone finding assets from p3 as opposed to how he is normally the level of emotion on display was scary.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
Nexon still is in my mind over the tiger mount debacle. I remember it well. Can't say I'm surprised they did more.
3:55
even if that WAS the case, you can't say they *stole* it if they *PURCHASED* it from the marketplace!
This is absolutely ridiculous. If we can't even make games based on canceled projects, then there's eventually going to be a time where any canceled project can come up out of tens of thousands that can be used as a weapon for lawsuits.
my farts are better than Charlie’s farts
You can you have to not use the files for that prokect though, make your own
How it works is that Nexon can certainly hold copyright to creative IP concepts, such as artwork, lore, etc. You can also own the copyright to code, as it is proprietary work. Note, it has to be the exact code that was reproduced or copied, and not just someone reverse engineering how it works and making their own, unique code. Hence why source codes are copyrighted. Even if you cancel the work, you still hold the copyright. You can also do this with specific, tangible elements that you uniquely created.
However, what you cannot copyright is broad concepts, game mechanics, etc. You cant just lay claim to a genre. It doesn't work that way. You would have to prove that specific copyrightable elements are either utilized, or are close enough to show they are being copied outside of fair use arguments. You cant just flip the color scheme on character and call it good. You cant have the same exact character mechanics, only with a different skin, as well, as those specific elements were copyrighted. You also cant use the source code. You cant rewrite Harry Potter but with the character names changed. None of this falls under fair use.
What you absolute can do is take the broad concepts of a game, create your own version with your own code and your own rules, and run with it.
So Nexon does hold rights to the cancelled project, but only as it pertains to the narrow definitions of copyright.
@@thechugg4372 bro stop the shilling
@@ninjafrog6966 That's not shilling lmfao that's reality you moron.
As someone that played Mabinogi for years, this sounds like a normal thing that Nexon does. Not sure if it's Nexon code though because they tend to write barely functional spaghetti code and from the sounds of it, Dark and Darker seems like a coded paradise in comparison
**Cries in maplestory memory leaks**
*Cries in Dungeon Fighter Online hacking spree*
@@Mikedot remember the times people used Cheat Engine to hack things into Nexon's games?
as someone that played mabinogi for years too, i havent seen anything because i was too young at the time to notice anything
@@silverrey7379 I remember the mabipake raid of 2013-2014. Gold/item duping, npc killing, black robe glitches... It was a giant dumpster fire.
I'd really appreciate an update on this once everything settles,let's see what happens.
Read for yourself in the discord
It's important to understand that a cease and desist letter actually doesn't mean anything. The letter is just a letter saying "if you don't stop doing that we're going to do something." It is often also used as a way of harassment against people who look at fancy letterhead and get scared which most people do.
As soon as I heard of Nexon, the name completely went over my head. Then, I hears the name MapleStory and got a bunch of memories flooding back. After that my thought was, "THAT Nexon? Oh. Oh no... this won't be good."
Maplestory was such a masterpiece but Nexon loves to ruin it. What a surprise.
Nexon literally killed maple story 2 because micro transactions wasn't strong enough lol despite the game having massive growth in the west
If this week would be turned into a movie, it would be: Sue Everyone the Movie, a box office bomb 💣
Ironmace are just as dodgy. People are blindly defending them because they like the game but they will just take the money and run if it ever does release
when I saw "Dark and Darker" in the thumbnail, I was worried the devs did something, only to find out it's Nexon being... well. Nexon. Glad to hear more people talking about them though.
Reminds me of when Lays tried to sue small farmers for growing potatoes that Lays used in their chips.
Wait is that an actual thing that happened in history? Whaaaat??? Aha
@@oOXIED8Oo Yeah. Pepsi did. They claimed to have a copyright on the particular breed of registered potato or something. They eventually withdrew their lawsuit after attempting to get the farmers to "settle."
Just further proof of American corporation entitlement.
@@ClockworkGearhead funny thing is they would have lost as they can copyright the process of making them but they can not copyright the potatoes themselves. Copy right laws and trademark laws regarding produce that you actually grow is very interesting and is actually more fair than media copyright and trade mark laws
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena Well, it was something in India in the first place. I'm not even sure the same copyright laws work there. The real reason they dropped it is they were facing really severe backlash on their decision
(Also, if I'm not wrong, the farmers weren't actually growing the crop on their own. Neighboring farmers did and the crop happened to migrate. Don't quote me on that, though.)
It was just pure greed on Pepsi's part.
how do these companies not recognize the blowback from the public when starting drama like this??? Is that not taken into consideration???
They figure their IP is so widespread it won't matter. People will but their games regardless of what they do.
imagine if they won in court, and they legally copyrighted an entire genre of video games
bruh the lead dev is getting sued because there is a real chance that he leaked the sourcecode from P3 (which is basicly dark and darker) as he got fired and P3 got sacked. You cant just leak fkn code from your employer, especially not if its a company like nexxon.
Dark and Darker looks literally the same as the game he was making when he worked at nexxon, it was obv that they go after him
rare Charlie L here
@@MildlyInterested_ 'real chance' There's no proof, no slight ideas. It's internal audits, not external, whom is trusted to be honest.
Just remember, Nexon makes their games P2W if they touch it, remove features they formerly had and it's irritating to deal with how intrusive the cash shop is.
I played Elsword before. No longer do. Because RNG for power with IRL money being the only way you can give yourself some insurance, should the item you're working on break. And you do this 5 times every 2-3 years.
Sometimes they didn't even need to go to trial for these things, but they only need to harrass the dark and darker dev with getting their resource run dry from dealing with lawsuit and hiring lawyer until they give up and said it's not worth the trouble. These things called SLAPP suit i believe
That shit should totally be illegal. Why is justice a luxury ? We need Phoenix Wright in real life
@@AjixGameOver it should be, but it ain't
@@AjixGameOver because of capitalism
@@AjixGameOver because it's not free to become a lawyer, and it takes effort and smarts to be a good lawyer. And you need good lawyers to keep these dumb suits going.