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Is Pleasure All That Matters: Nozick and the Experience Machine
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2020
- It almost seems like common sense that we should avoid pain and seek pleasure in life. I mean, who wouldn't rather eat some delicious food as opposed to stepping on legos? But if we take this to the extreme, as shown in Robert Nozicks experience machine thought experiment, we start to show hesitation, why is that?
In this video, I retell the experience machine thought experiment and explore an explanation as to why a life of just pleasure and no pain (hedonism) might be problematic. My argument centers around the importance of pain as an enhancement of pleasure, and I make a specific reference to the Daoist symbol of yin yang.
Song: Lo-Fi Beats To Philosophize to by D p S C
As far as I can tell, when folks say that you need the bad to appreciate the good, they’re either lacking in imagination or displaying symptoms of darwinian Stockholm syndrome. As a utilitarian, I find the idea that suffering is necessary to be a fairly toxic idea, in fact, I see it used to justify the existence of horrors that no one should ever defend, like cancer. Other examples include the toxic positivity of so called “post traumatic growth” (NO ONE should ever have to go through PTSD in any form) and defences of bullying on the grounds of “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” or whatever.
That quote is often attributed to Neitzche whom also once said that he wants the world to “become more full of suffering than it has ever been.” A sentiment also echoed by John the Savage from Brave New World when he defended the right to grow old and impotent, and to experience crippling anxieties and agonies in an oft quoted yet (in my hedonistic view) deeply sickening speech.
As for the machine itself, it’s easy to say no when it’s just a thought experiment, but I reckon that more would be tempted if it were real and we had it on good authority that such a pleasure inducer really *would* do what it’s advertised to do. I certainly would, in fact my honest response when I first heard of the machine was “where do I sign up?” My greatest wish is that humanity really does invent such a machine and finally bring an end to the darwinian order of misery and suffering
sadness and suffering is one of the essentials of life, obviously you shouldn’t go out and seek it as it’ll come to you in many different ways when you least expect it but learning that life is like a wave of ups and downs is one of the keys to cope with sadness and bounce back, instead of trying to change the wave of ups and downs in life which is impossible, learn to ride it. Let me ask you this, if you never saw nighttime would you actually know what daytime is? same with hot and cold, dry and wet, awake and asleep, they all need their polar opposite in contrast, how can you ever be truly happy if you don’t know what it’s like to be truly sad? understanding that suffering is needed in life isn’t the self destructive idea you think it is, it’s a way to cope with the inevitable periods of suffering you will face in your life. Rely on yourself to make your happiness and rely on the outer forces of the world out of your control to make your sadness. Sometimes when you’re down what you need isn’t to seek happiness what you need is to just feel ok. Happiness isn’t something to be pursued, chased, hunted, tamed it’s something to be welcomed. Believing that sadness isn’t okay and that you need to be happy all your life is one of the quickest ways for you to stay in your suffering for longer, we learn the most about ourselves through our suffering, don’t suppress it or block it out because you’ll become numb. To quote a famous movie “we rip out so much of ourselves to cure ourselves of things faster that by the time we turn 30 we have less to offer each time we start with someone new, but to feel nothing as to feel anything, what a waste”
awful take holy shit. you need to feel negativity to understand the good. if you only have good then good will feel mundane and boring simple as that
great opinion by both of you. And I understand both of the pov.
Honestly what a video, I was only going to watch the beginning to understand what an experience machine was for my exam today but I ended up watching the whole thing. Keep up the good work amazing animations, script, and music
I don't know if I missed something, I understood the virtual experience is as good as anything real, so, for the experience to be really pleasurable, it should include the feeling of a possibility of failure and every other thing that having a good full filling experience should include, if it doesn't, it is not real pleasure it would just be a sum of pleasurable sensations.
Like a gambler who constantly wins big? That reminds me of the Matrix quote where they tried to make pleasure machines for the human batteries but their minds kept rejecting it as not real and they would wake up, so they had to form the crappier second matrix (our world)
came from reddit, this video is really good. Good luck
Thanks very much friend, glad my outreach strategy is working lol
I think it's just the general desire for authenticity that keeps some people from wanting to be wired into the machine.
Came from reddit. Great Video. Both the animation and your explanation are very good.
Thanks Oscar!
a lot of people came from reddit, i came from discord oh and your videos are every interesting, i love them
Eyyyy nice to have you! What server?
spork not fork
Came from Reddit, loved it
Amazing video...keep up the good work
Thanks friend
Really good video, love the animation and music. I think pleasure wouldn't be what it is without the ability to feel pain, it'd just be the default mode of existence, I think it'd give more way towards boredom. Just as a workout gives you pleasure after going through some physical pain and challenge. And the famous experiment where an individual is closed in a room with nothing but a button that shocks him, presses on it even if he knows he's going to feel pain, and multiple times! Well I think it'd be something like that state if we were hooked up in a neverending pleasure machine
What's the famous experiment called?
@@slavicbendzy1759 Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind from the Science Journal
totally agree
im from my class after my professor asked us to submit an assignment about this nozicks machine. this heck is being a pain in the ass as I have 3+ assignments pending from the previous 3 weeks. #humbe #gned
tell your professor youd like less assignments if u were in the experience machine
i love me some Kant slander
Damn this video is good. Im from reddit too
Thank you very much SageMan! Appreciate your support!
That was a smooth sub request! But I had already clicked the button.
Thanks friend, I appreciate it!
I think humans care far too much about how others perceive us for the machine to be a good way out. We don’t just want experiences, we want to be validated by our peers for those experiences. The experience machine is a lonely place.
The pleasure machine could just simulate such people or has something akin to multi-player since it's a virtual reality
@@miguelatkinson no. it would not be perfect if it was multiplayer. what if the other persons perfect world was that they were an emperor and everyone else a slave?
By which means it does not only have positive experiences in the experience machine, you could choose to design a experience that can't be distinguish that has difficulties in the progress of your success, or in extreme, you can even choose to experience failures. That are also phenomenologically indistinguishable from actual experiences. Therefore I think your view is very weak and didn't know it's fully meaning.
U bet!
Kant says not to objectify