Secret Communication Of The Peloton | Race Radios Explained
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- Alex went behind the scenes with EF Education-EasyPost directeur sportif Tom Southam at the Tour Down Under in Adelaide to find out about how pro cycling teams use race radios. From the basics of how they’re set up to going inside the team car, here’s everything you need to know about race radios in cycling!
Sorry that the audio is a bit crackly at times - we only realised when we got back from Australia! You’ll have to imagine you’re listening over race radio!! 😂
00:00 Intro
01:20 The basics
02:58 Communication between riders
04:35 Rider radio set-up
08:02 How many radios do teams have?
09:06 Cost, battery life & range
11:42 How do radio messages stay private?
12:46 Inside the team car
15:29 Summary
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What other insights into pro cycling would you like to see? Let us know in the comments below! 👇
Team Bus's tours jus like like the old day 🤔🙏
The equipment of the motorbikes. For example how many bottles, do they have gels? Etc.
Ask a mechanic if there is a specific checklist for all torc settings. In other words, how do they make absolutely sure all bike are fully ready to go every day, including sprares. Cheers.
I worked Air Traffic Control for years, and we use radios constantly. Here’s a little more depth to some of the topics they spoke about:
•The radio in the car reaches farther because it is pushing its radio waves at with much more power (watts) than the small radio the riders are carrying.
•The reason there isn’t a specific answer about how far they reach, is because radio waves are crazy. They are affected by tons of factors, and the most important factor in this application is whether or not the antennas from one radio to the other can “see” each other. If there is a mountain or a lot of trees in the way, they likely won’t be able to hear each other even if they are 500 meters apart. If they are in the UAE desert, they likely reach 5-25 kilometers.
•Teams can’t hear each other’s radios because there are “security keys” that enable the radio wave to be sent in a manner that only a radio with the same security key can decipher.
Are the teams using uhf?
@@johnsmithers284 Hytera digital radios (DMR - digital mobile radio). DMR uses 70cm band, ie. UHF like you said.
Power in amperes?? Nope, the power is measured in watts. Mobile radios can have from 25W to 80W (depending on model/brand and whether is is a dual band or mono band radio), but most of them have 50W as standard for 2m band (VHF) and 40-45W (a bit less) for 70cm band (UHF). In a desert I would say that the radio wave will travel much further than 25km.
DMR is based on digital repeater network, but here I guess they would use the radios to communicate in direct mode, and not via a repeater tower (repeaters are usually mounted on high mountains or buildings).
@@TomSP9TL good catch, I misspoke. Edited the original message.
@@TomSP9TL ah okay that would make sense that it's dmr. No license then
Tom Southam is great in all the media that he partakes in, always insightful and interesting.
I've wanted to say this for ages, and can't hold back any more. GCN Tech is outdoing GCN proper!
😉😏
I unsubscribed the main GCN show 2 years ago.
@@carlk1183 I did recently
😳😎
GCN Tech is my favorite cycling show and channel on UA-cam by far. But I still do appreciate the regular GCN stuff.
Tom was such a easy guy to listen to , it would be good to hear from him again on other background stuff that happens in teams , in fact it would be good to hear more background stuff from lots of teams
What should we get Tom back for? 👀
My son and I did a charity ride one summer, and we bought a pair of headsets to use with some FRS radios I’ve had since forever. I was able to give him directions without having to pull up alongside and get his attention, and he was able to tell me when we needed to stop and take a break. The radios Alex and Tom are talking about here are certainly better (read: more powerful) than what we were using, but but it sounds like how we used them wasn’t too different.
Those are Hytera digital radios, usually used by professionals and in commercial businesses/organisations. They can be used by licensed radio amateurs, but Hyteras are pretty expensive. But good and solid radios.
That sounds like a lot of fun! Did the communication improve your cycling? 👀
Tom's my old training partner. Great guy and rode for many years with him. Always full of information and puts it across very well.
Great to see more content coming out from your TDU trip, Alex. The TDU format of being based in the one city for all of race week really lends itself to explore some of this behind-the-scenes detail.
Glad you're enjoying it! Is there anything else you'd like to see us cover?
More behind-the-scenes
@@gcntech!
My spouse got into HAM radio because I like to ride in random locations without cell service! I have carried the radio on occasion along the remote parts of the California coastline, and Utah. I feel safer knowing we can make contact if there is a mishap along the route. HAM operators also help with our local bike club sponsored centuries and gravel adventure rides. (ex. Bovine Classic, Wildflower Century, Central Coast Double Century) Even though radio communication is old technology, it's still in the race!
73 to your spouse!
As a cyclist and ham radio/scanner head, I really enjoyed this story. Nice job Alex!
Cheers Ben
Sounds like we hit the sweet spot! Did you learn anything new? 👀
What an asset Tom must be to the team. Such a calm manner which oozes confidence, the polar opposite of Marc Madiot!
Would you like Tom on a radio during your weekend rides? 😂
this was a great video Adam, I love the behind the scenes logistics kind of stuff. More videos like this.
Radios that use VHF frequencies instead of UHF would definitely work better in this circumstancd. In addition, a unit with a better antenna and more power output would be beneficial. The Hytera PD362i shown in the video uses 400-470Mhz frequencies and max 3 watts. On the plus side, it does have digital built into it. It would seem beneficial for this support guy to maybe switch to a Hytera PD482i or another radio that supports VHF.
True true :)
nope , its hytera pdf365 with 3w of power on high mode
This was fantastically in depth! Loved it
Cheers! Have you seen our 'Revolution' series on GCN+ where we have an in-depth look at the history of tech innovations 👉 gcn.eu/rev1
It’s astonishing that things haven’t matriculated from other sports or wireless usage - remote mute capability, locking plugs, mesh systems to prevent or reduce drop-out at distances .
BUT - what a fun glimpse at race tech behind the scenes - thanks for doing this!
Great to hear that you loved this sort of content! Maybe this is the only area of cycling that doesn't constantly evolve. Would you like us to delve deeper into the behind the scenes tech? ⚙️
@@gcntech absolutely! I remember seeing a video a few years back (?) touring one or more team bud with the mechanic - stuff like that is terrific! My inner production nerd (past life) would also enjoy things like a dive on the tech used to cover world tour events and the like, too
Also team mechanics trucks would be cool to see again and how they set the bikes up etc.
Good idea! We will hopefully be doing some more of these this season
Great video!!! Really intetesting info.
Really cool idea of a clip! Keep it up guys!
Absolutely loving how much footage of the Tour stages in Denmark is in this video!
Good inside stuff,Alex!
This was great! I’ve often wondered how the radios worked. 👏
Thanks! For more about the history of cycling tech, you could check out our 'Revolution' series on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/rev1
Thanks Tom & Alex. Really enjoyed this. Do you think they should make teams radios public like they did in the Ladies TDF and in F1?
It could be an interesting idea!
Super interesting and surprisingly unoptimised in the days of marginal gains. Two things I wondered: Does having the earpiece in not decrease the awareness while riding in the bunch? And aren‘t there units you can connect to your DI2 and push the top button on the hoods to talk?
Not sure about the di2 function but I can imagine something like that might be being developed!
That was great last weekend you guys did they a long long talk on training with S this one with radios these are good balance points to the hijinks you guys engage in on some of your Quasi tests
Great insight to this commonly unknown area for us fans!! I wonder would many other teams let you look at their setup?
We love getting behind the scenes access with the teams and thanks to Tom for giving us a run down! Would you like to see more from other teams? 👀
Great stuff! ITV used to do little clips about background stuff until a few years ago. There’s loads of stuff that you never find out about. How do they get team specific leaders’ jerseys sorted so quick? Does every team take a yellow bike for their lead rider to TDF? How far in advance do the barriers go up for the KOM, sprint and start/finish? Is there a UCI official way to count down with your hand for the start of a time trial? Who picks up all the riders’ rubbish after a stage? Why has Ollie stopped his Adam Buxton references? I’ve got loads more…
Enjoyed this video. I did have thoughts on what the radios do, but interested to know about reception distance and terrain influence.
Also the fact that some riders are a lot clearer than others, not just a general lack of radio quality. Not surprised that Owain Doull is very clear, he is Welsh afterall.😉
I love behind the scenes
We need more behind the scenes video of races
I wonder if these will be replaced by cellular radios (like phones) in the near future. There seems to be expanding coverage in rural areas and the push to talk function already exists.
I see a potential of race radios being used as audio guides for the riders and giving interesting facts about the places they pass on the way. Would love that if I was racing! Or maybe why not for passing the time by playing a couple of rounds of "I spy" with the whole team on very long flat stages!😉
Hahaha that's true, there are certainly a few sprint stages when they could probably do with some entertainment 😂
That was cool!
wonder if in the day and age of 4G/5G mobile networks, it wouldn't offer better quality to use something like discord/teamspeak for this. That would also allow for later delivery of messages in case the connection is unavaible at some point which is not possible with traditional radios. Would also eliminate the troubles around radio frequencies, licenses, speaking to specific riders instead of the whole bunch etc.
Nope. The use of radios is much more reliable and faster to press PTT rathers than using an app on a phone, which may crash, you may lack of GSM or Internet connection.
@@TomSP9TL Well, they are specifically saying that they have connection issues with the radios as well in a lot cases. Obviously I wouldn't recommend using just a phone with a random app but a custom developed (maybe android based) device which is optimized for this usecase, just like the radios they currently have.
The Movistar team documentary on Netflix is worth a watch to see how the radios are utilised. “The least expected day” binge tv right there.
I love that they watch GCN+ coverage of their own races
I've been curious about team radios for years.
Now I have a whole new set of questions!
I would love see a story on how teams deal with prologues and team time trials. Does every rider get a follow car? What happens if you have back-to-back riders? What if the TT is one way and not around? If extra cars are brought in - what happens to them between a PL and TTs? Things like that.
Tom Southam is ❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks for this, id been wondering about licensing etc.
The handheld the EF riders habe looks like a Hytera pd365, which costs about £150, 3w output with acompromised antenna. The radios in the car are probably around £500, 50w and will use a full size half-wave antenna which will make a huge difference to range.
Theoretically other teams will be able to listen in, as it is illegal to encrypt your signal, however if they are using digital radio its not just a matter of turning a dial.
I wonder how that works between the teams? Is there a wide range of frequencies used by these radios? Channels? Does each team agree to use a distinct frequency to avoid talking over other teams' communications? I was thinking about attending the Tour De France as a spectator next year. It would actually be pretty cool to bring a radio capable of listening to the team communications. If they're not encrypted, it would be possible, right?
Cool I'm in to radio. You would have a greater range of communication with vhf rather than uhf. 4m band is brilliant, it used to be used by fire services because the wavelength would bounce down tunnels. Basically, the higher the frequency the shorter the range and the more line of sight needed. Peace ✌️
Also, in hilly locations, a communication through a repeater set up on the highest point would greatly improve reception. Repeaters are key to distance communication on the vhf and uhf bands
But they use DMR radios. Thus 70cm band, since DMR is originally based on digital repeater network. The mobile Hyteras would have 2m and 70cm but not the HTs.
@@TomSP9TL True public/open bands. Couldn't see any sign of a repeater system being used though. It seems to be a mobile base communicating with the riders. With that setup on dmr they will lose signal very easily, even with the error correction that digital provides.
I'm wondering what echolink type services are available?
@@petersteadman841 once I've heard that there might be a repeater on a helicopter, but it would need many slots, or many repeaters so thay so many teams could use it. Unless they would use a trunking service.
@@TomSP9TL a helicopter would be ideal. Unsure of the license laws with dmr and aircraft though. The camera chopper will be ideal it's always above the peloton.
Super 👍
I pretty much would love to have some of that GCN burger. 🍔🤣
Great insight! Do the teams prefer digital or analog mode? DMR sounds clean with no static but very warbly and muffled, analog sounds excellent close by but static can be annoying further away.
If they used FM/analog, everyone could hear each other's strategic etc. So they use (encrypted I guess) DMR.
@@TomSP9TL They've been using radios for years or decades, well before digital modes were common, so they've always been able to hear each other. I wonder if it's actually a concern for them.
@@veryboringname. maybe nowadays it is a concern. Everyone wants to keep their tactics or other vital information a secret.
Can we see this when they are in the European tour cars to see the full set up? Reckon that would be super interesting!
Great idea! What other behind the scenes footage would you like when the world tour is in full bloom? 🤔
Is the Motorola unit the one given by the tour?
I'm surprised! I thought by now, race radios would've been much more advanced!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it 🙌 How do you think they should be advancing?
@@gcntech Nice try. I'll patent my ideas and get rich!🤣
I didn’t know Alex went to the Tour Down Under. He should have said
will the radio going to be integrated into the bike at some point and the riders use wireless earbuds? I’d imagine how not comfortable it is wearing the unit on your back, riding in hot weather, and sweating hard..
I believe the small rider radios have much less power for transmitting, than the big radio in the car. As for receiving the small radios will work pretty good, considering the small antenna. This is why the riders can hear but they may not be able to transmit back to the car.
Oh the irony of Alex's mic and audio being squelchy and they're stood next to each other! 🤣
What brand is the headset?
Wonder if there is any benefit to intercepting other teams' comms, are there any instances of it happening and if so how does a DS reduce the chances of it being abused?
Are there any current pros who rebuild their radio like Adam Hansen?
To some extent it is not about the kit but how you use it. So you might as well use dependable tech. Fun could be had with an integrated system that returned live telemetry from the bike with audio and a bar mounted push to talk button. Array microphones in the helmet with noise reduction and no wires would be part of such a high tech setup. But it all works fine as is.
What do the hand held radio 5:17 weigh? How much weight does it add to the rider? How many watts are you losing for the weight added? I’d like to see a comparison between carrying nothing and carrying everything you need in a race.
Hytera PD362i, up to 12hrs of work time.
@@TomSP9TL pd365
@@tomloa245 they just look similar
Why don‘t they use GSM? Quality would be better and the devices smaller/lighter.
Is the nsetwork coverage not good enough?
It's not about the quality, but reliability, ease of use, and much faster to press the PTT on the mic. GSM/Internet connection may not be reliable. This is why ALL rescue/uniform services use radios for fast communication.
@@TomSP9TL
Valid points, thank you. But...
1. Quality vs. reliability:
If quality is beneeth a certain threshold, you have a reliability issue. That's what he was mentioning and triggered my question.
2. Userspecific demands and challenges
Rescue/uniform services have in some regards different demands/challenges in termes of reliability, due to the indispensable functionality in any terrain ("off-gsm network areas" etc.) which is explicitly not the case in ROAD cycling with TODAY'S GSM network coverage. Would be interesting to hear an input from someone, who is familiar with the topic in the context of road-cycling.
3. Technology vs. application/implemetation of the technology
GSM Communication Technology does not describe (or limit IN THIS CASE) the application of the communication itself, but rather describe the communication transmission technology. An implementation of a "button-triggered/"radio-like" communication is possible novadays without any problem for GSM communication, with an appropriate software, without going in to details here.
Finally it should not be underestimated that even in highly developed areas (for example pro-sports) new technologies are often neglected especially in "contextual areas" (such as organisation, regulations monitoring etc.) for nostalgic/traditional reasons or due to a lack of competitive pressure - "as long as it works and every body uses the same, why changing it" - up until the day some one uses it and wins. Automated distance measurement in Professional Ironman Triathlon, to have a fair and transparent monitoring for penalties, which has for very long not been implemented, even thoug the technologiy exists, is just one example.
@@User85306 based on my experience I would noty trust mobile devices, too many software aspects that may fail, of course not that it happens all the time, but it just may fail in that 1% of the time. I've been to some parts of our local low mountains, and high as well, and network coverage was not 100%.
Maybe they just started using radio based technology and just didn't bother trying other new technologies?
This clip does not cover all tech details that we would like to know :)
Who’s the chap doing the slow motion bike throw at the line @ 10:00
Why haven’t they gone to a ROIP platform yet?
Something like Zello?
I can’t imagine many places the pros are racing won’t have signal these days.
I wish they would broadcast team radios during race coverage on TV, like they do in f1.
I tried to reach Tom on his number but it didn't work. Could you edit in a correction?
When was the FIRST time radios were used in racing?
Ironic that Alex’s mic was cutting out or was that for effect?
EF is the bees knees!
For the mountain stages deploy a drone as a satellite relay station.
Is there a common language spoken over the radio that all riders understand?
Yes! It's GO! GO! GO!
Ironically, Alex is having problems with his mic while talking about sound quality.
imagine DS screaming in their ears when they miss breakaway🤣🤣 and some words flying
Have there been instances when a team’s radio has been intentionally jammed, or hacked so others can listen in / communicate? I would imagine on a world tour that some of the info being communicated could be strategically important enough that someone might attempt it, although illegal.
I’ve always thought it’s extra weight that is unnecessary. It’s bizarre that you try and strip every G taken off the bike and then they go and add that.
I reckon racng woud be a whole lot more interesting if there were no radios, and no power meters.
Definitely better than a guy with a chalkboard up the road!
very poor range , im a amator i have the pd365 , about 700 m , but now im using the poc radio with 4g , unlimited range
I Still dont get nobody have helmet with radio fitted in...
great potential for crushing in a crash! too costly!
teaching people mic and radio etiquette is never easy, cant be easy during a bike race either
The mix of stress and racing can create issues with mic use! Would you like to see the GCN team having a go at using radios? 🤔
Weight weenies would be crying… 😂
Do you have to wear them, or can you choose not to, to save some weight?
I believe its a requirement for all riders, mostly so they can receive instructions and information from their team DS's
I’ve always wondered why they don’t build the radios into the back of the helmet somehow, less cables and less nasty injuries to riders backs when they fall on them in their current position.
Not so secret now is it???????
Though it’s cool tech, race radios should be banned from road racing. The safety argument is borderline and in pro races there is plenty of safety coverage. The whole “team car directing the race” approach takes away the unpredictability and dynamism of the race and basically removes the decision making from riders. It makes racing boring. Let the flaming begin. 🤷🏼♂️
Race radios are the number one thing that ruined professional cycling. Professional racers used to have to have a brain of strategy during the race. Now all they have to do is listen to the director in the car
I wanted to say THAT, but you frekin beat me to it. I hate you!
@@savagepro9060 it was exciting back in the day when someone could get off the front and finish minutes ahead of the pack. The saying was always out of sight and out of mind. That’s how the great champions were made. Now people have everything down to the second then down to the watt coming from the computers in the cars behind them. It’s just not exciting to me anymore. . Oh, I wish for the days of Eddy Merckx and Benard Hinault again
@@AceRamone actually I've LOST the passion for cycling, and just as you state, the Bernard Hinault era did it for me. I was just born when Eddy Merckx was rolling
how do they not accidentally use the same channel
The DS is probably lucky that he hears only 50% of what the riders say! UCI should ban these things once and for all. Too many times a DS is watching on a video screen and yelling tactics to his riders rather than having the riders actually paying attention to WTF is going on. Bring back the "fog of war"...the safety issue of these things is a joke...how many times have post-race interviews revealed the rider had no idea about whatever hazard(s) were on the course?