If you are looking to take your training to the next level then consider one of my online science based training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
I can attest that the plans are 100% worth it. I gained more, at 43 years or age, than I have in my entire life over this last season with Dylan's Plan. Really, really great to have that structure and from watching all of his videos, I know where the plan comes from.
I'm sorry Dylan but I'm afraid I won't be sharing any of these excellent videos with any of my friends because I will be racing against them in a few week's time and I need all the watts over them I can get!! Off to order some aero socks now...
If you care about being faster than you mates, then working hard is probably the lowest priority in the order of things to get. Socks? Requires 0 effort and it’s a permanent gain. Wheelset/aero frame/helmets? Same. All these don’t cost you ANY effort or time, yet gives you an immediate benefit boost. Fitness requires time and effort to build and maintain, while it’s so much easier to just BUY your benefits. So of course it’s way more logical to just focus on optimising your equipment first, and once you’ve squeezed out every last watt from your gear, then you start looking to fitness for those uncertain gains. It’s like my coach said before. It’s ok that we train less than the other competitors given our country’s emphasis on education. We still can win because our wealth allows us to buy our way to the podium, and that’s a win too.
@@slowcyclist4324 that is really a poor sport mentality. At a pro level where you have pressure from sponsors, I can understand but for amateur.. That is why some amateurs cheat, take enhancing drugs where there is only their ego which is at risk. You will be much more proud of overtaking your mates by the efforts that you have made than thanks to the last skinsuit that you have purchased. Otherwise I do not understand why you have started to ride at the beginning
Excellent piece, thank you for this. Especially the forthright analysis of low cost aerodynamic improvements. One thing I learned from Mike Burrow’s book Bicycle Design is that even with wheel covers in place, traditional forks, and even “aerodynamic” forks, are a drag-inducing disaster. The turbulence of the air as it passes through two tubes with a wheel in between is astonishing. This is also why monoplane aircraft are so much faster than biplanes. The solution? A monoblade. An asymmetrical one piece fork, tapered at or greater than 4:1 with a teardrop shape. And yes, front and rear. His Lotus 108 featured this and it was an insanely fast machine. And now I’ll close before I start talking about recumbents …
Absolutely LOVED geeking out with these interviews Dylan - Josh is the perfect guest and your line of questioning was exactly what I wanted to ask - really well done. MORE Pls ! (I'd welcome a quarterly series with Josh?!)
Good stuff Dylan! We should all be aware too that all the advancements in bicycle tech itself, like decreasing TDF bike weight from 9.6 down to 6.8 kg during the 50-year time period from 1972 to now, and making some aerodynamic tweaks to the bikes themselves have amounted to a potential gain of less than 5%...A 5% gain is what we've got for 50 years of engineering/R&D time and tooling investments of $10s of millions. What an example of disproportionate investment for decreasing marginal gains, pathetic return on investment! Just doing a few tweaks to rider positioning and maybe changing our clothing a bit looks a lot more cost-effective.
@@sakomeow First of all, just look at the average TDF stage speeds from 50 years ago to now (I'll assume that 50 years ago, in Eddy's days, there wasn't a serious doping problem. Also, back then, they didn't have training and dietary science that was up to today's level.). Secondly, I've done a few experiments using the Kreuzotter bicycle speed and power calculator. I think that's enough for now, but yes it would be nice to do a bit more rigorous investigation.
@@sakomeow In 1971, Merckx' average speed was 38.08 kph, and in 2021 Pogacar's was 41.17...only 8.1% faster than Merckx, and it'd be wrong to credit all of that 8.1% to the bicycle tech improvements. Really, for the thrill and struggle of the race, it doesn't matter one bit that the equipment has marginally improved, does it? We could just as well say that all riders have to use one single design and base it on the good ol' steel frames of 50 years ago.
I was a racing cyclist from age 15 to 36. I haven't touched my road bike since 2005, switching my focus to horses. It has been so interesting to watch these videos and learn about everything that I was doing wrong. Thank you Dyllan and Josh for such interesting information. The internet and youtube have made it so much easier to learn anything you want to learn about.
man, that "climbing vs aero gradient depends on the power" is so important. Ever since manufacturers started talking about that 6% line, my question has always been "yeah, but at what power and w/kg". Obviously aero is going to matter a lot more for a rider at 400W and 6w/kg. But I'm at 270 and 4.2, when all my local climbs are 6% or more, and it's a no-brainer.
I haven't been able to turn a pedal in 5 months due surgery and injuries. I'll need to start riding in a vacuum, just to be able to get my bike moving forward. :)
I believe that a key to getting aero is to get a bicycle with standard stem and handlebars, because it's body position that counts, as you stated, and that trumps the aero savings of proprietary stem/handlebar combinations that cannot be tweaked.
You are right and one has to realize, the proprietary things in most cases have nothing to with getting the customer faster, but with corporate greed, and locking in the user to an ecosystem.
Proprietary stuff is mostly bullshit and to lock in the customer like the other dude said. If you’re not a pro it’s not going to make the difference between winning and losing anyway
Dylan, what I would love to see is a video on how to train to ride in an aero position for longer. What kind of stretch exercises, strength exercises and on the bike drills I could apply so that I could actually hold my aero tuck for a long time. I feel as when I’m fresh I can usually hold an aero position for a while, but as I get fatigued my triceps start burning, shoulder gets tense and It becomes hard to hold the tuck. Thanks for the awesome video as always
For what it’s worth, it’s a function of three elements: (1) time in the position; (2) bike fit; and (3) flexibility. There’s a lot to discuss about all three but in my experience inadequate hamstring flexibility is commonly an issue. And it’s one you can solve relatively easily with proper attention. As a test, you should be able to raise your foot a couple inches vertically from a pedal (in socks) in the noon (top) position when in your aero position. Most riders can’t move it vertically at all meaning they are dragging their top foot through vertical twice each revolution. A big marginal loss in power. But all three factors interact dynamically so it requires trial and error to develop a relatively sustainable aero position. Just my two cents.
It's not rocket science. Spend an increasing amount of time in the aero position on your training rides. If certain muscles get fatigued then train those muscles off the bike.
If aero sock help but UCI limits sock height why not wear a full length tight with texture similar to a sock at the calf? THANK YOU for the What Should Recreational Riders do question at 19 minutes. I seldom ride at the speeds Josh talks about but over 100 miles a few changes are huge.
I can listen to Josh Porter for days. LOVED both videos and I think is an awesome addition to your already great video style. You also ask the right questions which is the most important part of an interview, obviously. Thanks Dylan!
love the format, it's great to see those gains against each others. would love to see some comments on races and what could be apply to change the output. Great one Dylan
I was on to all this 15 years ago as Vroomen and White started Cervelo ... more that 50% of my multiple successes, including National Championships were just because I kept my tight fitting jersey zipped up amongst other such items and that kept me saving power over much younger, stronger riders which left me more matches to burn in the closing stages :-)
Coming from a car and motorcyle racing background I've really started loving cycling because of the really small margins. I've had a lot of fun taking all of the mechanical and engineering knowledge I've learned from those disciplines over the years and applying it all to cycling and seeing what sticks. Currently experimenting with vortex generators and some winglets on the front half of the bike with the goal of redirecting air away from the rider position.
This sounds interesting. And considering how voxtex generators are used in F1 cars, you could do pretty magical things with road bikes if regulations are not too strict.
@@MikkoRantalainen But sadly, the regulations ARE quite draconian from the world governing body over most of cycling (the infamous UCI). 😡 They seem to ban/restrict even the most benign appearing non-structural (and even some of the actual structural) aero 'add-ons', as well as tube length to section width/shape ratios, seat tube angles, wheelbases, rider positioning, etc. ☹
Wauw ... will never laugh at my son when he insist having aero socks. I will in fact buy them for him! Great interviews - you are well prepared and good at letting the guest take his time to get to the point, sometimes with a great anecdote included as well. Keep it up. It could be fantastic if you interviewed some of the key stakeholders in the US gravel scene to get POVs on how gravel will develop - in US and globally. Will the same happen to the gravel scene as it did with road racing when UCI wanted control? What about UCI now throwing 1-2 gravel races in the schedule and want ownership of gravel world championship? There is so much to debate for the good of the grass roots in gravel.
@@gumzster It's not that surprising that aero socks would actually have big effect because your legs are the only part that's going faster than the whole bike. If regulations allowed it, I wouldn't be too surprised if we'll see some sock like things that are pulled over your shoes and socks to get rid of all the seams and crevices in your shoes and ankles.
This is the first video of yours that I've seen. I enjoyed the inrerview, and I really love how knowledgeable Josh Poertner is. I look foward to seeing more of your content.
Triathlete here and for us aero is everything. On a road bike not so much because the biggest gains is in your position and you can only do so much on a road bike but that being said a helmet, assuming it works with you position can save a lot of drag but clothing is probably the biggest benefit. Aero road bikes are the least bang for your buck. The rider is the real drag. Not the bike.
Doing bike related research on YT, I came across the savings made by going to midsole clipless shoes and shorter crank length. Just a few MM’s was huge!!!
This was an excellent series. Well done. Keep doing the interview format. Would love it if you got Dr. Herman Pontzer on to talk about Constrained Energy Expenditure theory. It is fascinating and important information for us cyclists.
I bought a Diverge in 2019 purely for the geromomitry. I have 2 wheelsets, one for road,one for gravel. I have, after 35 years, given up my mtb and not looked back. I still ride some of my mtb routes on gravel wheels and complete sportives on the road wheels. Love it.
Great series. Thank you! The discussion on weight reminds me of a story a friend told me. He was, in his younger days, into cycling and bikes etc and was dreamily eying the latest, lightest (a nice easy metric for manufactures etc to focus on) bike. A conversation with the bike shop owner went to and fro about weight saving, price etc before the guy suggested, rather bluntly, that he might be better off running round the block a few times and losing some weight! I have become less interested in weight since wrapping myself in 25kg of DF velomobile for my daily commute. Previously, my best time for the 22km to work was about 45 mins on a bottom of the range Cruzbike recumbent (approx. 35 degree seat angle). That was a full gas effort. Best time on the DF - 36 mins, not eyes-popping-out effort as it gets too scary to be doing 60kmph on bad road surfaces etc. I am 53 and in no great shape. Could lose 5-7 kg! Aero is king! Now to find some low friction chain tubes… gains…
Nice one. Looking forward to the time when we have solar paint to add some additional horse power to the human power. The downside of a velomobile is probably safety in situations where normal cars commute, as it so small and can easily be overlooked and probably not very safe in case of collisions in general. With great speed comes great responsibility unfortunately.
Horse racing. Jockeys. They wear silks of a nature so baggy they are essentially drogue parachutes. Go to Dubai or the Coolmore stud in Ireland with your game and get the jockeys representing the huge racing cartels using your input. At racing speeds the savings will be significant I'd suggest. This is one of the few sports where they've not yet embraced aerodynamic gain. You heard it here first.
Dream interview: talk training, work/life balance, and the realities of being a businessman with Pete Stetina! Absolutely loved this series, man, please keep it up : )
Such a great series of videos! Stephen Seiler would be such a great guest!! I could see it being a really engaging conversation and i've seen him interviewed on other youtube channels, so he definitely makes himself available. He's such a dynamic thinker about performance and a really cool mind in general. Thanks for the great content!
I am more than old enough to be a "masters cyclist". Every jersey of mine is tight....for this very reason; i.e., minimizing wind resistance. And position; going from the tops to the drops adds 1 mph to my modest speed. Just like that. So much you can do to be more aerodynamic and to improve your "engine", without spending a dime.
Hi Dylan, love the series, could you make a video on Lab testing, V02 max, lactate threshold and maybe even wind tunnel tests and when in the season to do them, how to accurately use the data, how to prepare for them and increase reliability across tests, track improvements etc.
Anecdotal, but I started on a vintage Fuji with modern wheels and drivetrain but cheap tires. Standard athletic clothing, whatever helmet I had, etc. Went to an aero bike, aero wheels, mid tier tires, fitted clothing and a quality but not specifically aero helmet, learned a bit about position, etc: dropped time on a relatively flat course from 54min to 46. In order of the things that "felt" most important I would say position, clothing, tires, wheels, bike, helmet.
I recently bought a '06 trek 1500 wsd, IDC if it's womens the colors amazing and it fits surprisingly well for me being 6'2. I ride about 6 miles everyday to and from work and on my ride home it's usually very late at night, where there isn't much traffic, giving me the option for a time trial. When I first got the bike I was doing about 20 minutes racing back. Ive known aerodynamics for a long time but I finally thought I'd start trying the positions, being my first road bike from xc/hybrid bikes I tried it, and raced a sub 15 minute run hitting 35 and avg of 20. After I set that new pb I've been using aero tucks and stuff a lot more even on casual rides. And bare in mind I got that bike for a deal of $200 and ride flats, a shirt, shorts and backpack, the difference it's gonna make when I upgrade to cycling kit...
Good stuff, I had already planned on making some aero upgrades for next summer, so this is helpful. Wheels deeper than 38mm, aero bars and aero helmet, aero jersey's is all I wear. Bikes are expensive, so I never understood dirty bikes. I always say a clean chain is a fast chain.
Keep these up Dylan! I love your deep peer reviewed dives into fitness and equipment gains but the interviews are a great change up. Keeping the content fresh is paramount to keeping the viewer entertained and informed. I'd love to hear a video talking about common pains cyclist experience on longer rides, and ways to alleviate them.
About aero bar vs round bar: in real world its not 25-30Watt saved but about 2-4W because in real ride there is rider behind the bar. 25-30W is a difference when we measure bike without rider.
I would like to have heard more from Josh on the difference the aero bike might make as opposed to a brand's standard light bike. E.g. the Giant TCR vs the Giant propel, or the Cervello R5 vs S5. Also whether trying a hybrid approach - like the Tarmac - is best, or whether Speciallzed would have done better sticking with the Venge. But very helpful discussion; thanks.
The reason why that isn't an important topic is because it just doesn't matter much at all. Not compared to all the other things they talked about. It is only important in selling bikes, and since most cycling media is glorified advertising, it gets way too much attention.
Having owned/own both TCR & Propel TCR loves to climb and comes into its own here, Propel flies out the saddle instantly, accelerates very quickly and easier to maintain a higher speed over a greater distance however, ride comparison on same routes there is not a great deal of difference over time or average speed pretty much on a par…
Well this interview series has been awesome & I will say that your interview style has been exceptional for somebody who normally features themselves (and their alter ego) in podcasts. So often I've seen other podcasters try this and wind up listening to that podcaster spend an hour primarily talking while the guest just sits there, smiles, and nods. So, pretty good start. Dan Bigham. 'What would you do to make a gravel bike & rider faster?'
Tucking in might save you watts but when I ride in a more tucked in position my poweroutput drops which outways the watts saved from the position. I'm much stronger when sitting up with locked elbows, how can increase power output while tucked in?
Some of these gains are small but remember that they are small for a long time. A lot of these race are 100 to 200 miles so 10 watts for 10 to 15 hours is quite a distance traveled or energy saved depending on how you look at it . Thanks Dylan.
It would have been nice to hear him talk about the aero advantage/ disadvantage of rim brakes/fewer spokes etc versus disc brakes - more spokes, larger and more brake gear in the air flow.
This was dope Dylan. Thank u for this. I learned a lot, and I am one of those who were like "...aero socks?" I am now a believer. I'm also gonna just check my clothing to see where I can make some changes.
A clear issue is handlebar width. For example, most of the women's professional peloton should be riding much narrower handlebars. This also holds to a lesser extent for the men's professional peloton, with clear exceptions like Dan Bigham and Jan-Willem van Schip and I believe that Victor Campenaerts has convinced some of his teammates this year to narrow down. Note that on the track, most endurance riders are now using 35cm bars or less, and sprinters are on 33cm or less (despite their huge shoulders).
This was good stuff. What the average cyclist should take away from all of this information is that you don't have to go crazy spending a lot of money on the lightest stuff because it's not going to have that much of an effect. Aero position, clean drive train, snug kit, these are the things that cost nothing to very little but can make the most drastic differences.
Rock Bar cycling sells a case with weight that is narrow enough to have minimal drag. Having tried it, weight does matter until body gets stronger and adapts to the weight. That is why aero has a big advantage over weight. The more aero you are, the less effort you have to do relative to being less aero. Also, wind drag increases exponentially as speed increases. Weight drag does not change effort as speed increases unless going downhill.
very interesting, especially around the aero socks, at the beginning. I am a big biker, not so relatively speaking weight is not an issue, but all good stuff, look forward to your next bunch of videos, keep up the good work :)
So, I have got my new Orbea Ordue here, started testing it, but because of slow production in the world I miss the wheels from aero coach, the Veloflex Record tyres , my new skin suit from Nopinz, my aero socks and a clean and waxed chain. How many watts am I missing at around 45km/h ;-). I am so eager to find out. Any good estimates? Aerocoach says 10w for disc wheel and 100mm front from their other deep section set, at least 10w for the tyres, 2 for the chain? The suit claims 7, and the socks I see now from regular sock might be as much as 5 ;-).
The water bottle thing, wow! But I don’t find many down tube/seat tube options for that? I’ll consider putting a bottle behind the seat & moving from a seat pack to a streamline bento box thing. Wonder if that ends up being a win?
It would be great if all these aero gain measures would be taken and discussed at more realistic speeds of 25-35 km/h. Moreover, they should be also put in the context of riding solo vs. riding in a bunch, as the power outputs (and the overall drag) at those respective speeds is clearly not the same.
Great series! I have a question for the aero gloves. Many of them have similar fabric on the back like the aero socks or sleeves of aero jerseys, striped in the same direction as the fingers. For me it doesn't make sense. The stripes should be perpendicular to the wind direction, like on the socks, shouldn't they? You wear aero gloves when you want to be aero, so your position will be also as aero as possible. You will be either on TT bars, on drops or on the hoods with forearm parallel to the ground. In all aerodynamic positions your hands and the stripes are parallel to the wind. Will that really help anything?
Hi Dylan. I'd be interested to find out more about nutrition, I'm sure that there are at least marginal gains to be had by eating and drinking the right things at the right time, and just like tyre pressure I'm sure we've all been brought up with old school ideas and stories about what pros used to do when there must be a lot of modern science in this area that could really make a difference. What to eat before training, what to eat on the ride, recovery, and should there be any differences during competition? Also for different types of races, how would you fuel before a time trial or hill climb, compared with a short club race, or a century etc.
I have my first full ironman in 2 weeks, I literally bought aero socks and then aero gloves as I watched this. Already have an aero trisuit (huub aenomi) and an aero helmet (hjc).
I was struck by what JP had to say about weight and first pedal stroke. In Arizona bike shops typically only let you try out a bike in the parking lot behind the shop. That explains why, when I first tried out a seriously light bike, it felt much more amazing than it did later when riding it on the open road.
Really like the interview format! Feels more natural, sometimes the data loading format is heavy for us people who use the right side of the brain, lol.
If you are looking to take your training to the next level then consider one of my online science based training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
good guest and good stuff dylan, keep up the fine work 💪🏻
I can attest that the plans are 100% worth it. I gained more, at 43 years or age, than I have in my entire life over this last season with Dylan's Plan. Really, really great to have that structure and from watching all of his videos, I know where the plan comes from.
@@therealterrydean q😊
I'm sorry Dylan but I'm afraid I won't be sharing any of these excellent videos with any of my friends because I will be racing against them in a few week's time and I need all the watts over them I can get!! Off to order some aero socks now...
aero socks indeed!!!
Lol I’m the same way.
If you care about being faster than you mates, then working hard is probably the lowest priority in the order of things to get.
Socks? Requires 0 effort and it’s a permanent gain. Wheelset/aero frame/helmets? Same. All these don’t cost you ANY effort or time, yet gives you an immediate benefit boost.
Fitness requires time and effort to build and maintain, while it’s so much easier to just BUY your benefits. So of course it’s way more logical to just focus on optimising your equipment first, and once you’ve squeezed out every last watt from your gear, then you start looking to fitness for those uncertain gains.
It’s like my coach said before. It’s ok that we train less than the other competitors given our country’s emphasis on education. We still can win because our wealth allows us to buy our way to the podium, and that’s a win too.
@@slowcyclist4324 that is really a poor sport mentality. At a pro level where you have pressure from sponsors, I can understand but for amateur.. That is why some amateurs cheat, take enhancing drugs where there is only their ego which is at risk. You will be much more proud of overtaking your mates by the efforts that you have made than thanks to the last skinsuit that you have purchased. Otherwise I do not understand why you have started to ride at the beginning
Lmao 🤣 🤣 bastard! 😋🤨😠
I'm going to wear 10 pairs of aero socks, that should save me at least 50 W.
Watching this on my CAAD9 on the trainer wearing mismatched socks. Thanks Dylan, I feel inspired.
Haha, me too!
Excellent piece, thank you for this. Especially the forthright analysis of low cost aerodynamic improvements.
One thing I learned from Mike Burrow’s book Bicycle Design is that even with wheel covers in place, traditional forks, and even “aerodynamic” forks, are a drag-inducing disaster.
The turbulence of the air as it passes through two tubes with a wheel in between is astonishing.
This is also why monoplane aircraft are so much faster than biplanes.
The solution?
A monoblade. An asymmetrical one piece fork, tapered at or greater than 4:1 with a teardrop shape.
And yes, front and rear.
His Lotus 108 featured this and it was an insanely fast machine.
And now I’ll close before I start talking about recumbents …
This series of topics with Josh Porter was super informative and entertaining! Thanks a lot Dylan and Josh. Learned a lot.
Absolutely LOVED geeking out with these interviews Dylan - Josh is the perfect guest and your line of questioning was exactly what I wanted to ask - really well done. MORE Pls ! (I'd welcome a quarterly series with Josh?!)
I second that.
Yup!
Right on point!
Best description Ive ever heard of how ‘tripping the air’ reduces drag. Thanks. 👏👏
3:28 talking about golf ball dimples. Myth Busters put a layer of clay with dimples on a car. 14% more aero. Why I love my Zipp wheels.
This series put me on to the marginal gains podcast and I've now binged almost every episode
Good stuff Dylan! We should all be aware too that all the advancements in bicycle tech itself, like decreasing TDF bike weight from 9.6 down to 6.8 kg during the 50-year time period from 1972 to now, and making some aerodynamic tweaks to the bikes themselves have amounted to a potential gain of less than 5%...A 5% gain is what we've got for 50 years of engineering/R&D time and tooling investments of $10s of millions. What an example of disproportionate investment for decreasing marginal gains, pathetic return on investment! Just doing a few tweaks to rider positioning and maybe changing our clothing a bit looks a lot more cost-effective.
source?
@@sakomeow First of all, just look at the average TDF stage speeds from 50 years ago to now (I'll assume that 50 years ago, in Eddy's days, there wasn't a serious doping problem. Also, back then, they didn't have training and dietary science that was up to today's level.). Secondly, I've done a few experiments using the Kreuzotter bicycle speed and power calculator. I think that's enough for now, but yes it would be nice to do a bit more rigorous investigation.
@@sakomeow In 1971, Merckx' average speed was 38.08 kph, and in 2021 Pogacar's was 41.17...only 8.1% faster than Merckx, and it'd be wrong to credit all of that 8.1% to the bicycle tech improvements. Really, for the thrill and struggle of the race, it doesn't matter one bit that the equipment has marginally improved, does it? We could just as well say that all riders have to use one single design and base it on the good ol' steel frames of 50 years ago.
I was a racing cyclist from age 15 to 36. I haven't touched my road bike since 2005, switching my focus to horses. It has been so interesting to watch these videos and learn about everything that I was doing wrong. Thank you Dyllan and Josh for such interesting information. The internet and youtube have made it so much easier to learn anything you want to learn about.
A clean horse goes faster?
man, that "climbing vs aero gradient depends on the power" is so important. Ever since manufacturers started talking about that 6% line, my question has always been "yeah, but at what power and w/kg". Obviously aero is going to matter a lot more for a rider at 400W and 6w/kg. But I'm at 270 and 4.2, when all my local climbs are 6% or more, and it's a no-brainer.
Goes to show when doing a MTB race old school tight cycling jersey & Lycra shorts are the best option even though the trend in MTB clothing is baggy.
I haven't been able to turn a pedal in 5 months due surgery and injuries. I'll need to start riding in a vacuum, just to be able to get my bike moving forward. :)
I believe that a key to getting aero is to get a bicycle with standard stem and handlebars, because it's body position that counts, as you stated, and that trumps the aero savings of proprietary stem/handlebar combinations that cannot be tweaked.
You are right and one has to realize, the proprietary things in most cases have nothing to with getting the customer faster, but with corporate greed, and locking in the user to an ecosystem.
Proprietary stuff is mostly bullshit and to lock in the customer like the other dude said. If you’re not a pro it’s not going to make the difference between winning and losing anyway
Could you make a video on specifically XC MTB training.
Wow, excellent guest! Very well spoken and obviously knows his stuff.
Dylan, what I would love to see is a video on how to train to ride in an aero position for longer.
What kind of stretch exercises, strength exercises and on the bike drills I could apply so that I could actually hold my aero tuck for a long time.
I feel as when I’m fresh I can usually hold an aero position for a while, but as I get fatigued my triceps start burning, shoulder gets tense and It becomes hard to hold the tuck.
Thanks for the awesome video as always
That would be really interesting 👏
This would be very interesting, I feel like my power is lacking in deeper positions and I quickly revert to hoods + locked elbows :P
Second!
For what it’s worth, it’s a function of three elements: (1) time in the position; (2) bike fit; and (3) flexibility. There’s a lot to discuss about all three but in my experience inadequate hamstring flexibility is commonly an issue. And it’s one you can solve relatively easily with proper attention. As a test, you should be able to raise your foot a couple inches vertically from a pedal (in socks) in the noon (top) position when in your aero position. Most riders can’t move it vertically at all meaning they are dragging their top foot through vertical twice each revolution. A big marginal loss in power. But all three factors interact dynamically so it requires trial and error to develop a relatively sustainable aero position. Just my two cents.
It's not rocket science. Spend an increasing amount of time in the aero position on your training rides. If certain muscles get fatigued then train those muscles off the bike.
Brilliant interview,far superior and more satisfying than the “GCN does science” fluff.
About on the same level of wanketeering!
If aero sock help but UCI limits sock height why not wear a full length tight with texture similar to a sock at the calf? THANK YOU for the What Should Recreational Riders do question at 19 minutes. I seldom ride at the speeds Josh talks about but over 100 miles a few changes are huge.
I can listen to Josh Porter for days. LOVED both videos and I think is an awesome addition to your already great video style.
You also ask the right questions which is the most important part of an interview, obviously. Thanks Dylan!
I can't listen to Josh. Literally I can't hear anything he says, so soft of a speaker
@@CowneloAlvaroid Too bad! You're missing out on a lot of good info.
@@8rk 🤡
@@CowneloAlvaroidTry listening without that make up!
@Gurk E why so triggered and angry 🤡?? Lmao you're so emotional, mb its your time of the month?
love the format, it's great to see those gains against each others. would love to see some comments on races and what could be apply to change the output. Great one Dylan
all 3 interviews answered a lot of speculation I have acquired over the past several years...great series!
I was on to all this 15 years ago as Vroomen and White started Cervelo ... more that 50% of my multiple successes, including National Championships were just because I kept my tight fitting jersey zipped up amongst other such items and that kept me saving power over much younger, stronger riders which left me more matches to burn in the closing stages :-)
Love the interview format. Perhaps you can get ex racers to talk about their older fitness plans that may still be around.
Dude you are so much more natural just talking live with someone! Definitely would love to see more of that! Thanks as always...
Yeah he was a bit of a robot before but I like both Dylan’s. Great to be mixing it up a bit.
Years and years of knowledge and tinkering my Josh Poertner.
Curious mind. Observant eyes
Coming from a car and motorcyle racing background I've really started loving cycling because of the really small margins. I've had a lot of fun taking all of the mechanical and engineering knowledge I've learned from those disciplines over the years and applying it all to cycling and seeing what sticks. Currently experimenting with vortex generators and some winglets on the front half of the bike with the goal of redirecting air away from the rider position.
This sounds interesting. And considering how voxtex generators are used in F1 cars, you could do pretty magical things with road bikes if regulations are not too strict.
@@MikkoRantalainen But sadly, the regulations ARE quite draconian from the world governing body over most of cycling (the infamous UCI). 😡
They seem to ban/restrict even the most benign appearing non-structural (and even some of the actual structural) aero 'add-ons', as well as tube length to section width/shape ratios, seat tube angles, wheelbases, rider positioning, etc. ☹
Wauw ... will never laugh at my son when he insist having aero socks. I will in fact buy them for him! Great interviews - you are well prepared and good at letting the guest take his time to get to the point, sometimes with a great anecdote included as well. Keep it up. It could be fantastic if you interviewed some of the key stakeholders in the US gravel scene to get POVs on how gravel will develop - in US and globally. Will the same happen to the gravel scene as it did with road racing when UCI wanted control? What about UCI now throwing 1-2 gravel races in the schedule and want ownership of gravel world championship? There is so much to debate for the good of the grass roots in gravel.
@@gumzster It's not that surprising that aero socks would actually have big effect because your legs are the only part that's going faster than the whole bike. If regulations allowed it, I wouldn't be too surprised if we'll see some sock like things that are pulled over your shoes and socks to get rid of all the seams and crevices in your shoes and ankles.
I followed some of this advice and I gained so much WATTS my back keeps rolling uphill without me even pedalling. Amazing stuff.
This is the first video of yours that I've seen. I enjoyed the inrerview, and I really love how knowledgeable Josh Poertner is. I look foward to seeing more of your content.
Weight barely mattering until 7-8% is crazy! Definitely a lesson learned.
I was expecting to hear it at 3-4%
Triathlete here and for us aero is everything. On a road bike not so much because the biggest gains is in your position and you can only do so much on a road bike but that being said a helmet, assuming it works with you position can save a lot of drag but clothing is probably the biggest benefit. Aero road bikes are the least bang for your buck. The rider is the real drag. Not the bike.
Doing bike related research on YT, I came across the savings made by going to midsole clipless shoes and shorter crank length. Just a few MM’s was huge!!!
This whole series has been excellent and you are actually quite good at interviewing guest.
This was an excellent series. Well done. Keep doing the interview format. Would love it if you got Dr. Herman Pontzer on to talk about Constrained Energy Expenditure theory. It is fascinating and important information for us cyclists.
I bought a Diverge in 2019 purely for the geromomitry. I have 2 wheelsets, one for road,one for gravel. I have, after 35 years, given up my mtb and not looked back. I still ride some of my mtb routes on gravel wheels and complete sportives on the road wheels. Love it.
I love it when Dylan gets his geek on. Great video. It's amazing how many WT pros don't take this seriously.
Great series. Thank you! The discussion on weight reminds me of a story a friend told me. He was, in his younger days, into cycling and bikes etc and was dreamily eying the latest, lightest (a nice easy metric for manufactures etc to focus on) bike. A conversation with the bike shop owner went to and fro about weight saving, price etc before the guy suggested, rather bluntly, that he might be better off running round the block a few times and losing some weight!
I have become less interested in weight since wrapping myself in 25kg of DF velomobile for my daily commute. Previously, my best time for the 22km to work was about 45 mins on a bottom of the range Cruzbike recumbent (approx. 35 degree seat angle). That was a full gas effort. Best time on the DF - 36 mins, not eyes-popping-out effort as it gets too scary to be doing 60kmph on bad road surfaces etc. I am 53 and in no great shape. Could lose 5-7 kg! Aero is king! Now to find some low friction chain tubes… gains…
Nice one. Looking forward to the time when we have solar paint to add some additional horse power to the human power. The downside of a velomobile is probably safety in situations where normal cars commute, as it so small and can easily be overlooked and probably not very safe in case of collisions in general. With great speed comes great responsibility unfortunately.
Fascinating. Can't believe I'm going from here to ebay to look for aero socks. I'll never roll my eyes again. Thanks.
Best guest on the channel. Great synergy of content.
Horse racing. Jockeys. They wear silks of a nature so baggy they are essentially drogue parachutes. Go to Dubai or the Coolmore stud in Ireland with your game and get the jockeys representing the huge racing cartels using your input. At racing speeds the savings will be significant I'd suggest. This is one of the few sports where they've not yet embraced aerodynamic gain. You heard it here first.
Dream interview: talk training, work/life balance, and the realities of being a businessman with Pete Stetina! Absolutely loved this series, man, please keep it up : )
Such a great series of videos! Stephen Seiler would be such a great guest!! I could see it being a really engaging conversation and i've seen him interviewed on other youtube channels, so he definitely makes himself available. He's such a dynamic thinker about performance and a really cool mind in general. Thanks for the great content!
I am more than old enough to be a "masters cyclist". Every jersey of mine is tight....for this very reason; i.e., minimizing wind resistance. And position; going from the tops to the drops adds 1 mph to my modest speed. Just like that. So much you can do to be more aerodynamic and to improve your "engine", without spending a dime.
I’ve learned tons from this series. I hope you do more like this Dylan, and a shout out to Josh for being so clear and forthright.
Hi Dylan, love the series, could you make a video on Lab testing, V02 max, lactate threshold and maybe even wind tunnel tests and when in the season to do them, how to accurately use the data, how to prepare for them and increase reliability across tests, track improvements etc.
Awesome! Like I tell several of my Quantico MTB club mates, when it comes to how small/tight of a jersey you should have, "If it zips, it fits!" :)
Dylan, this is the best video in your channel! I’ve watched it at least 4 times
Anecdotal, but I started on a vintage Fuji with modern wheels and drivetrain but cheap tires. Standard athletic clothing, whatever helmet I had, etc. Went to an aero bike, aero wheels, mid tier tires, fitted clothing and a quality but not specifically aero helmet, learned a bit about position, etc: dropped time on a relatively flat course from 54min to 46.
In order of the things that "felt" most important I would say position, clothing, tires, wheels, bike, helmet.
Good stuff Dylan. Just started using Josh’s chain wax! It’s amazing how much cleaner everything stays.
Abus Gamechanger helmet, Michelin Latex Tubes and Turned-in shifters did the magic for me. I swear by them for speed gains.
I recently bought a '06 trek 1500 wsd, IDC if it's womens the colors amazing and it fits surprisingly well for me being 6'2. I ride about 6 miles everyday to and from work and on my ride home it's usually very late at night, where there isn't much traffic, giving me the option for a time trial. When I first got the bike I was doing about 20 minutes racing back. Ive known aerodynamics for a long time but I finally thought I'd start trying the positions, being my first road bike from xc/hybrid bikes I tried it, and raced a sub 15 minute run hitting 35 and avg of 20. After I set that new pb I've been using aero tucks and stuff a lot more even on casual rides. And bare in mind I got that bike for a deal of $200 and ride flats, a shirt, shorts and backpack, the difference it's gonna make when I upgrade to cycling kit...
Good stuff, I had already planned on making some aero upgrades for next summer, so this is helpful. Wheels deeper than 38mm, aero bars and aero helmet, aero jersey's is all I wear. Bikes are expensive, so I never understood dirty bikes. I always say a clean chain is a fast chain.
Keep these up Dylan! I love your deep peer reviewed dives into fitness and equipment gains but the interviews are a great change up. Keeping the content fresh is paramount to keeping the viewer entertained and informed. I'd love to hear a video talking about common pains cyclist experience on longer rides, and ways to alleviate them.
Mega informacja❤Dzieki bardzo za to ze to relacjonujesz, milo sie Ciebie slucha👏✌️
About aero bar vs round bar: in real world its not 25-30Watt saved but about 2-4W because in real ride there is rider behind the bar. 25-30W is a difference when we measure bike without rider.
Thanks for that
I think you should try get Hambini for aerodynamic, Peak Torque for drive train efficiency and perhaps Luescher Teknik for frame efficiency.
LOVE (!!!!) the interview style videos! The ones with Dr.Seiler were amazing as well. Keep em coming Dylan and thx for everything!
I would like to have heard more from Josh on the difference the aero bike might make as opposed to a brand's standard light bike. E.g. the Giant TCR vs the Giant propel, or the Cervello R5 vs S5. Also whether trying a hybrid approach - like the Tarmac - is best, or whether Speciallzed would have done better sticking with the Venge. But very helpful discussion; thanks.
The reason why that isn't an important topic is because it just doesn't matter much at all. Not compared to all the other things they talked about. It is only important in selling bikes, and since most cycling media is glorified advertising, it gets way too much attention.
An upright bike is already flawed. For aerodynamics and speed you need a recumbent bike.
Yes, good example, would love to hear the difference on two such bikes. 👍
Having owned/own both TCR & Propel TCR loves to climb and comes into its own here, Propel flies out the saddle instantly, accelerates very quickly and easier to maintain a higher speed over a greater distance however, ride comparison on same routes there is not a great deal of difference over time or average speed pretty much on a par…
@@difflocktwo Not so sure about that. Riders body is not very aero. Now, with a faring……..
Well this interview series has been awesome & I will say that your interview style has been exceptional for somebody who normally features themselves (and their alter ego) in podcasts. So often I've seen other podcasters try this and wind up listening to that podcaster spend an hour primarily talking while the guest just sits there, smiles, and nods. So, pretty good start. Dan Bigham. 'What would you do to make a gravel bike & rider faster?'
Loved this series (although my aero will always be determined by the large protuberant mass below my chest and above my waist)!!! Keep them coming.
Just make sure you develop some dimples on it.
Tucking in might save you watts but when I ride in a more tucked in position my poweroutput drops which outways the watts saved from the position. I'm much stronger when sitting up with locked elbows, how can increase power output while tucked in?
Really great video and guest. He never dodges a question the way he dodges the wind.
Some of these gains are small but remember that they are small for a long time. A lot of these race are 100 to 200 miles so 10 watts for 10 to 15 hours is quite a distance traveled or energy saved depending on how you look at it . Thanks Dylan.
I enjoyed this series Dylan. Good questions, knowledgeable guest. Well done. 👍
I liked the interview series. I'd love to see what you and Jeff from NorCal cycling could discuss about race strategy.
It would have been nice to hear him talk about the aero advantage/ disadvantage of rim brakes/fewer spokes etc versus disc brakes - more spokes, larger and more brake gear in the air flow.
Disc brakes are significantly more aero due mostly to the rim shape.
This was dope Dylan. Thank u for this. I learned a lot, and I am one of those who were like "...aero socks?" I am now a believer. I'm also gonna just check my clothing to see where I can make some changes.
According to Hambini the dimples only apply to objects that move at hundreds or thousands of miles per hour. So it does not help on things like rims.
It's for small objects that are also rotating. This doesn't apply to bicycles or the rider.
This channel so much better than GCN and other commercial counterparts
Get Lael Wilcox on if you can! Any ultra endurance content like the tour divide is always welcome!
Great stuff! Love the techy technical information. Keep it up and I look forward to future videos!
A clear issue is handlebar width. For example, most of the women's professional peloton should be riding much narrower handlebars. This also holds to a lesser extent for the men's professional peloton, with clear exceptions like Dan Bigham and Jan-Willem van Schip and I believe that Victor Campenaerts has convinced some of his teammates this year to narrow down. Note that on the track, most endurance riders are now using 35cm bars or less, and sprinters are on 33cm or less (despite their huge shoulders).
This was good stuff. What the average cyclist should take away from all of this information is that you don't have to go crazy spending a lot of money on the lightest stuff because it's not going to have that much of an effect. Aero position, clean drive train, snug kit, these are the things that cost nothing to very little but can make the most drastic differences.
This is one hell of good quality interview and information sharing. Chapeau mate 💪💪💪
Whats the net effect of aerodynamically overheating the head vs better cooling and less aero in comparison ?
Rock Bar cycling sells a case with weight that is narrow enough to have minimal drag. Having tried it, weight does matter until body gets stronger and adapts to the weight. That is why aero has a big advantage over weight. The more aero you are, the less effort you have to do relative to being less aero. Also, wind drag increases exponentially as speed increases. Weight drag does not change effort as speed increases unless going downhill.
very interesting, especially around the aero socks, at the beginning. I am a big biker, not so relatively speaking weight is not an issue, but all good stuff, look forward to your next bunch of videos, keep up the good work :)
So, I have got my new Orbea Ordue here, started testing it, but because of slow production in the world I miss the wheels from aero coach, the Veloflex Record tyres , my new skin suit from Nopinz, my aero socks and a clean and waxed chain. How many watts am I missing at around 45km/h ;-). I am so eager to find out. Any good estimates? Aerocoach says 10w for disc wheel and 100mm front from their other deep section set, at least 10w for the tyres, 2 for the chain? The suit claims 7, and the socks I see now from regular sock might be as much as 5 ;-).
More useful content - kid you just can't stop doing the good. Thanks
This has been a great series DJ! 🍻
The water bottle thing, wow! But I don’t find many down tube/seat tube options for that? I’ll consider putting a bottle behind the seat & moving from a seat pack to a streamline bento box thing. Wonder if that ends up being a win?
It would be cool to see you interview your teammates from Jukebox. Adam, Phil, Ruby, Alexey and Xander.
Great interview. Thanks Dylan and Josh.
It would be great if all these aero gain measures would be taken and discussed at more realistic speeds of 25-35 km/h. Moreover, they should be also put in the context of riding solo vs. riding in a bunch, as the power outputs (and the overall drag) at those respective speeds is clearly not the same.
I really enjoyed that. Especially as I don’t have the big bucks left after buying wheels.
An interview with Adam Hansen would be interesting !
This whole series has been awesome! Got me on to the marginal gains podcast too.
Loved listening to Josh!
Great series!
I have a question for the aero gloves. Many of them have similar fabric on the back like the aero socks or sleeves of aero jerseys, striped in the same direction as the fingers. For me it doesn't make sense. The stripes should be perpendicular to the wind direction, like on the socks, shouldn't they? You wear aero gloves when you want to be aero, so your position will be also as aero as possible. You will be either on TT bars, on drops or on the hoods with forearm parallel to the ground. In all aerodynamic positions your hands and the stripes are parallel to the wind. Will that really help anything?
Super interesting Dylan. Really, really enjoyed everything about this 👍
Great series of vids. I will never look at my skinny calves in the same way again. And gave up calf raises years ago.
Hi Dylan. I'd be interested to find out more about nutrition, I'm sure that there are at least marginal gains to be had by eating and drinking the right things at the right time, and just like tyre pressure I'm sure we've all been brought up with old school ideas and stories about what pros used to do when there must be a lot of modern science in this area that could really make a difference. What to eat before training, what to eat on the ride, recovery, and should there be any differences during competition? Also for different types of races, how would you fuel before a time trial or hill climb, compared with a short club race, or a century etc.
That position of yours on the bike (when on the road) looks fast! 🙌 Such a big fan of Josh! Thanks for this series!
I have my first full ironman in 2 weeks, I literally bought aero socks and then aero gloves as I watched this. Already have an aero trisuit (huub aenomi) and an aero helmet (hjc).
Yt keeps bringing me here and I keep watching
I was struck by what JP had to say about weight and first pedal stroke. In Arizona bike shops typically only let you try out a bike in the parking lot behind the shop. That explains why, when I first tried out a seriously light bike, it felt much more amazing than it did later when riding it on the open road.
Really like the interview format! Feels more natural, sometimes the data loading format is heavy for us people who use the right side of the brain, lol.