Thanks for watching! I have the main OverThink video with 5 mercy haters vs 5 mercy players, if you haven’t checked it out, you’ll definitely enjoy it! 🫶🏻 ua-cam.com/video/4GSSHzYzCM8/v-deo.htmlsi=5c1lCSQj2nyaT-hz
Discord could be more balanced in 6v6 because youre only discording 1/6th of their team, but 1/5th is 20% of their team discorded. I think the 5v5 format has caused some issued that were unexpected
It was absolutely for 6v6. There are two tanks that need to be discorded. However, now there isnt another tank that can help them, the tank just gets shot down and the other teammates cant do much about it unless you use suzu to cleanse discord (why???)
@@Pam234Yeah, that’s why Discord needs a lower damage amplification on tanks, like 15% instead of 25%. Still makes it valuable against tanks, but not too much to the point where the tanks just fall over immediately.
Zen orb should be like sombra hack, in terms of not being able to orb same person again instantly. With zen there should be a cooldown if you keep targeting the same enemy. Especially for the sake of tank
Damage boost is not balanced, simple as is. Bad design for the sake of having diverse abilities. There's a reason they removed supercharger, not because it was boring and part of the reworked Orisa. It was an "I win" button in masters and gm lobbies.
Just in case you didn’t know, I have the big “mercy haters vs mercy mains” video on my channel as well :) ua-cam.com/video/4GSSHzYzCM8/v-deo.htmlsi=5c1lCSQj2nyaT-hz
Yeeee the word "unhealthy" shouldn't be mistaken as "annoying". A good player knows how to deal with 'annoying' counter that hinders progress, even if that means not being able to get kill right away, or even the enemy team has better defense, or when the enemy uses their annoying utility abilities (except only moira that doesnt have one 😂), even it means to figure out how not to get killed, and make progress to win the game.
Is this a troll? Your so called annoying heroes got nerfed because of heavily biased GM players. Balance will always be a problem because people can't look outside their little bubble.
@@VioIetteMolotov what you saying is exactly true, some unhealthy skills that some hero has been exactly unhealthy for the game in the long run & that's true it's biased towards higher rank. Plus It's even more prominent on Tanks nowadays. Anyhow I was commenting the video, both dps and healer talking points did not address the differentiation between skills being unhealthy or annoying, using the word unhealthy to strengthen arguments of which does not hold the water. I hope that sums up
@@Arch732 Do I really need to quote you and repeat myself? You literally said "A good player knows how to deal with 'annoying' counter that hinders progress", which is exactly not a thing, as I already said. It doesn't change in higher ranks. People will be biased, people will call anything unhealthy they deem unfun for themselves, because, again, they're heavily biased.
I think the damage boost conversation is a both sides are wrong thing. Let’s take sojourn for example. Soujurn does 195 damage with a fully charged headshot by herself, and even if mercy’s damage boost was at 5% (making it basically useless) sojourn would still be able to one shot with the damage boost. There’s a balance that the dev team has to strike and no character should be able to delete that much health by themselves with no assist. On the flip side I can see the frustration that would be caused by damage boost. The ashe talking point is so confusing to me tho. ashe was always able to 1 shot with mercy pocket which obviously proved to be too strong but even when they nerfed ashe so that she can’t one shot with mercy pocket, ashe still remained one of the strongest hitscans in the entire game and continues to be one of the strongest hitscans with or without mercy. They should really look into fixing mercy because mercy players aren’t exactly enjoying her and dps players aren’t enjoying playing against her
@itsunofficial I get you but also as I said, I don’t think any hero should be able to do 195 damage in one bullet by themselves with a non ultimate ability or weapon fire. Two sides of the same coin
Views of an ex-Mercy main (started playing her when she had mass Rez; top500 peak): 1.She fundamentally is a simple & easier hero with most value coming from decision-making & positioning. 2.Heals are decent but consistent. 3.Damage boost is fair but annoying (ie. Ashe does 150 headshot by herself but 188 currently with dmg boost; yes some thresholds are changed, but at the same time, the dps potential is higher with any other support attacking). 4.Rez is fundamentally broken. Not only is it an ability to forgive mistakes, it does so to a level beyond other abilities. Rez completely undoes the hard work the enemy team did to secure that kill, making it unfun to play against. Also, the line of sight checks & range of rez make it feel even cheaper/less consistent. 5.Her movement is annoying, but needed (and one of the most entertaining parts of her kit.... honestly preferred when superjump required skill to do) 6.Don't have any real opinions of her ult at this time... TLDR: Mercy is a simple hero to use, but her own impact is limited. She's a great hero to learn the game & positioning, but oftentimes, there are better choices. Prioritize your life, and enable your best teammate (+ your other support). At low ranks, you will spend a lot of time healing but pistol kills can make an impact. At high ranks, you will spend most of your time damage boosting a teammate & flying around.
at least when super jump took skill she had to be grounded to pull it off now she can spam it anywhere so much so that flying in valk for safety is overkill or just unimpressive as an ult because shes airborne constantly regardless and with her bullets the size of a barn and flying not being so special ill see more and more mercys using valk just to chase down an enemy dps and the trade off being someone on her side gets killed due to being down a support just because mercy suddenly got bored with playing mercy every other ult and will just come back to rez the result of their own neglect assuming she doesnt get picked off too for being so wildly out of position by that point if it qp fine idk but i hate seeing it in high ranked of all places her base kit even breeds problems for the use of her ult which is garbage to use for offensive purposes even if they do get a pick hell it’s the only time its satisfying to see the enemy mercy rez her one dumb valk kill and pop her own ult to secure her own teams victory in a fight
Hmm.. solid arguments on both sides for the most part, but I feel like the Mercy players were trying to make rez seem harder to pull off than it actually is. I play Mercy at a decent level (low master) but getting a rez is not hard in the slightest, UNLESS you’re going for a risky one, which isn’t something you want to do regularly. Mercy is a fundamentally easy character to play, I agree 100%. Though, that’s not all there is to her. You have a relaxing job and some micromanaging to do here and there, as well as insanely fun mobility. That’s why people pick her over other supports I’d say. Good video, I just wish both sides understood each other a little better.
The main thing I’ve taken out of the mercy haters is that they want to make the game more easier for them basically 😂😂😂. Complaining about mercy’s Rez, lifeweaver grip, bap immortality, kiriko’s zuzu, ana’s nano boost is the reason why they are supports. Giving them the ability to not only increase the team survivability but to also contribute to provide support on defeating their opponents. It seems like they would rather blizzard completely remove it all together and just make them heal. That completely takes away the fun of being a support main. Who wants to just heal all the time? No one. To us supports it feels good to actually contribute to the team instead of just healing. It sounds boring to just heal and provide no other support. The only thing I agree from the mercy haters is that damage boost is unhealthy. It is. Pocketing pharah at times to me feels so dirty, especially if the enemy team is having a difficult time killing her. But there’s literally no way to balance damage boost. The only way how to solve it is by giving mercy a rework and give her a new ability. Which 9/10 would still get negative feedback. And that’s the only way how mercy can be effective for the team cuz mercy’s healing is not that good. Mercy Rez is not unhealthy at all. I almost hardly ever use Rez cuz of how situational it is. Either A.) will I be safe using this Rez? I won’t be sniped by hanzo or widowmaker? I won’t be dived by tracer, genji, sombra or ball? Or B.) Is my team at critical? Should I focus on healing the team or should I trust the other support to keep the team up? Scenarios like this for example is the reason why I almost rarely use Rez. But please continue making these kinds of video. I really enjoy videos like these.
Maybe smaller damage boost (like 15% instead of 25%) and a 15% fire rate and/or reload speed increase while blue beamed would make it easier to balance? If peak damage is too high with a mercy boost, the blue beam can have a power shift, which would really help with the counter balancing by nerfing the characters that mercy is good pocketing on
@@Baconator9k15% percent damage boost would make mercy a troll pick now. If that’s the case then there’s needs to be some compensation. Like increase her healing output then. I don’t agree with increasing the fire rate cuz that would throw them off guard like soujourn and Ashe. And mind u, there are time we have to switch from healing to damage boosting so that in itself would make it difficult for the pocketed to adjust.
@@30ajgoOverwatch 1 we had no choice to do healing majority of the time, but now in overwatch 2 u gotta do more than just healing. Not only to provide damage support for ur team to help secure a kill but there are times where u have to defend urself. Let’s say blizzard rounds up take away supports abilities, how will u be able to protect urself? So not only the dps have to secure more kills and ur tank has to create more space but now they have to go out of their way to protect u.
@@timeless_act I get what you’re saying but you said no one likes to heal all the time but I do. Sure you do a lot more but healing is one of my favorite things to do a support and I wouldn’t have a problem I do it all the time if it’s good.
As a former mercy one trick turned Ana main who's becoming an Illari main, I don't like mercy as a hero and not the people behind the hero for 2 major reasons: 1) mercy is the most passive hero in the game, which is why most people spam shift just to feel like they're doing something. They all even admitted this in the video and agreed on it when they said something along the lines of "mercy can't do anything 'in the moment' (which is most of the time) so she has a lot of time to look around keep track of ult economy" 2) mercy is hard to carry on because she's the only hero in the game that does not deal damage (an entire skillset) and the only carry potential she has is highly dependent on her team's skill as well as the enemy team's skill, which is a terrible hero design in a game like overwatch imo With that being said, idc if I have a mercy on my team (one trick or otherwise). I don't go out of my way to judge a teammate (mercy or otherwise) right off the bat just for playing the hero. The hate on mercy players is rooted in misogyny and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply wrong. Maybe these two mercy haters in the video aren't misogynists themselves (although it doesn't seem like based on how they dismissed misogyny like that), but they still said that they don't like the player behind mercy and not mercy as a character, yet I didn't see the same kind of passion coming from them (nor the community) towards any other one trick players? They even dismissed it when asked about it, which is interesting.
A couple things. While I agree gaming spaces are misogynistic to an upsetting degree, I disagree with the whole “dismissing it” idea. Yea they said they don’t think that’s why it’s mercy players in specific but they also showed understanding of how toxic and misogynistic gaming is towards women and admitted they haven’t experienced because they aren’t a woman and that they aren’t going to try to invalidate their experiences because they are sure it does happen. They were just trying to get back to the discussion and I don’t blame them when recording a live video and a mercy player pulls out the sexism card during a discussion. I think that’s pretty unfair to do because obviously with all the stuttering, it seemed to make them feel like they were being tied into that crowd in a video that will be seen by a lot of people and has the biggest mercy streamer in it with a big following. Even then they still didn’t invalidate and were honestly pretty respectable about it. Also in response to one trick hate, doom one tricks get blasted on twitter, in game etc. I’m even guilty of loading into a game and seeing doom and going “well we will probably lose unless this is the 1/10 chance I get a decent doomfist on my team. Sombra in season 1 got me a lot of toxic messages and got hate on twitter etc for a the whole season. Moira one tricks get a very large amount of hate as well unless you are nova. I’ve also seen the hate sym and torb have gotten for a long time before both got touched. I think the difference is that mercy players are insanely vocal to the point where streamers don’t like talking about mercy on twitter in fear of the “mercy” mafia and it’s not exactly rooted in misogyny it’s that mercy has had such a long list of changes since overwatch 1 and mercy mains have had their hero changes, buggy, movement touched every other patch and that goes back to around/before moth meta was a thing. I think there’s probably more mercy one tricks than any character since she’s very popular. I haven’t had any bad interactions with a mercy player. I actually don’t mind having mercy wether they one trick or not because if you like something then play it. I have maybe 3 hours on mercy since overwatch 1, I don’t enjoy the hero so I haven’t had alot of experience getting hated for playing her. But I will say I’ve seen the same hate if not more (not talking about or equating misogyny I’m talking about just general hate, flaming, etc) that they talked about on my teams/enemy towards people who play moira, sombra, zen, widow, torb and sym. Again I’m not comparing misogyny to flaming, I’m speaking from general dislike/flaming that isn’t using misogynistic language. That’s been my experience. I like mercy players, one trick or not because I’d rather them be good and my hero pool helps alleviate having to heal me so she can enable others and have one less to worry about. It’s just when I go on twitter and see how mercy mains can be versus in game, it’s why I dislike the mercy player base. I’m in a sombra discord and Facebook group and we got so much hate in season 2 and partially season 5 and when our character got nerfed we were like “yea that’s kinda fair.” Again I think mercy has a huge player base and are more vocal due to a lot of factors and I’m sure a good part probably is rooted in sexism because I hated having to worry about my female friends getting hate and shitty jokes because they are speaking in lobby (since I had very introverted kind friends). So I agree a good amount is probably rooted in it but there’s a lot of factors and variables tbh
@@BetaNurse68 I have to preface this by saying that this is one gigantic block of text, I suggest you try to punctuate it more because it was really hard to read. Regardless of that, I see what you're trying to say. Concerning moira, I did not mention her in my comment because she was dismissed in the video and I completely agree with them dismissing the character because there is a lot to be said about her, so I won't go into that. Concerning doom, symmetra, ball, hog, etc. the people that are playing them do not get constantly called "egirl", "boosted", "f-slur", etc. in game for simply playing the hero. Every character in the game gets hate, especially if the person playing it is performing above/below the enemy team's/allied team's performance. But none of them get called slurs for simply playing the hero. Concerning the misogyny part, when I said that the mercy hate is rooted in misogyny, I simply meant that it is a cause, not necessarily the only cause. So I am glad that you came to that conclusion during your writing of that comment.
@@BetaNurse68But if part of the hate is due to sexism, isn’t that a reason to discuss it? Zero people aren’t a bit sexist or a bit racist or a bit whatever. We don’t always realize it which is why it’s important to at least consider it. Not wanting to even discuss it or consider it as a possibility is silly.
@@truckerdave8465Yeah, but there is a time and place to talk about that. Talking about sexism on a topic that is discussing one tricks out of nowhere is not a good time. That is like discussing racism at Cheesecake Factory because most people get the white kind instead of chocolate. Plus I think best to get rid of racism and sexism IS to stop talking about it and focus on the person and not what gender or race they are, but bringing it up when there is no need to is doing more harm than good.
i hear a lot of people talking about how rez is bad for the game cause it forgives a mistake but i'd say as long as one shots are in the game having the ability to counter a one shot with a rez kinda justifies it, having a mercy to bring you back from that random hanzo arrow spammed through a choke is a resource spent, it might not be an ultimate used to save someone but its still a really long cooldown to counter something that can potentially happen 3-4 times a fight. as for damage boost i don't really care what they do with it, i don't play mercy much anymore cause i feel other supports just have a bigger impact i just want her movement back they can take damage boost away all together and give her something else for all i care.
This would throw off the DPS characters because you'll be switching between the fast and slow beam a lot. It would be more of a hindrance than anything else. If the beam only helps on reload time, it could maybe work if it's a big enough boost.
Hot take, people need to stop using the word unhealthy, when they find something annoying in game. Theres a difference between an annoying ability, and one that is actually unhealthy. Rez can be annoying but has very easy counterplay. Be in a position to kill mercy while shes resurrecting a target. Thats why in higher ranks, getting a rez is harder. More people are aware and waiting for mercy to attempt it, so they can burst her down. Oneshots are annoying but also have counterplay. Against widow or hanzo, position better. Hug walls. And move out of los quickly. Staying close to your tank can also prevent them from oneshotting you. Against a Hog, bait out his hook and jump him while its on cooldown. It was especially effective to have a ana on your team against hog to stop him from healing. Immortality field is imo an actually unhealthy ability because it enables both the player and his team. If i go to kill bap, he can throw it on himself, and completely circumvent any agency on my part. He gets a guranteed saftey net from anything I do, because I have to interact with a deployable before i can do anything to him at all. Meaning that in a 1v1 id more likely then not, have to run, because he'll likely kill me before i can destory his deployable and finish him. The only counterplay is to wait for him to use it and then try and kill him, which is still difficult because Bap has a good gun, regen, and a relatively ok mobility option. If he puts Immortality field behind a wall, your forced to wait out its duration which, even if small guarantees that he'll heal up his team, and theres nothing you can do about it. His immortality and Kiris suzu are also insanely easy to use. Just aim it at your feet and your essentially protected from all damage for the next couple seconds. You dont have to have a brain to use their abilities well. I feel like its be better if there abilities didnt work for them, but did save their teammates instead. I definitely prefer dealing with Mercy over Kiri or Bap. Rez only works if you let Mercy utilize it. Otherwise it isnt an issue at all.
Res is the only counter to one shots that isn't proactive tbh. But using immortality cooldowns to avoid the chance of a one shot is niche. Though I can't lie, when I play widow I am pissed that Mercy constantly resses all my kills when I finally get them lol
The points that the mercy haters are making are contradictory to themselves. They think the res is fine and then they say the res is bad. They say it takes no skill, and then they say it takes skill. They say it’s both fine and not fine for low ranks and then accept that mercy is hard to play in high ranks. Which is how it is for every almost every character in the game
Although I do like the points made about affecting damage numbers. That’s a real point to be made whether that’s good or bad for the game because of what the devs do to balance strategies that can be considered too strong, like with Ashe.
Fr- I also just don’t like debates like these in general, as arguments & counter points can vary from person to person. Yes, the big ones will most likely stay the same- but different people have different reasons as to why they like or dislike a certain aspect of one’s kit. No hate to the creator of the video! I love her channel & her fun videos, I’d like to be apart of them. These ones in general, especially about hating a certain character or not hating them is just not for me ig.
@@helheimpanda Every hero takes some form of skill. That’s why there are some people who can climb with Mercy only to Top 500 & others who can’t. Of course skill can transfer over, so even if you’re a Top 500 Lucio main you COULD play Mercy- but you wouldn’t know her tech or movement nearly as much as a Mercy whose been through all that would. In which case, if you do a worse job than an enemy Mercy who does play her & you die more often because of it- then you’re putting your team at a disadvantage just because you have fundamentals down of the game but not complete knowledge of the character you’re playing. Am I saying she’s the hardest & takes the most skill? No. Absolutely not. There’s a plethora of other hero’s that take more skill. But she still exhibits a form of skill that most find boring/uninteresting/uneventful or not impactful compared to others.
The thing is They kept saying that rez is hard in comparison to bap or kiri but the thing is mercy has way to much movement on top of that Yes she has to stop to rez but most mercy’s use cover and run away with a small hit box and one of the highest movement based kits Bap is very diveable especially with more than 1 person with 1 forcing burst and 1 breaking imort because after that he has to escape Kiris Suzu it’s self is strong but at least it’s a skill based skill you have to listen to the audio ques to activate an ability that only has a less than a second to use
the reason I hate rez is because, during a chaotic and fast paced fight, you can't just sit in one spot and never invest resources for ten seconds. But if you don't do that, everything invested to get that kill is just wasted because mercy pressed E.
Masters Mercy main (atm), and support player 2500+hrs. Good points here and there from both sides, relatively decent discussions. Here's my opinion; Mercy is an easy character to *pick up* and get decent value out of, but has a high skill ceiling as positioning, ult tracking (mainly for dodging and valk management), several different techs (though they have become significantly easier with Mercy's mobility rework), and micromanagement can be infinitely improved upon and bring you to a next level as a Mercy player. Mercy is not hard to get initial value on, usually regardless of the player so long as they're not brand new to support or the game itself with no relative FPS experience, but obviously that does not mean it she is easy to excel at. They make rez sound like it is so much more difficult to utilize than it actually is. As was stated, from Bronze - Plat (honestly I'd even be willing to say low-mid diamond in most scenarios) you can go for all the whacky and risky rezzes and usually successfully pull them off. Hell, even in low Masters, you'd be surprised..... But let's keep it between Bronze and low Diamond for now-- That's well over half the player base, as most players average between gold and diamond in Overwatch 2 (Gold was previously the overall average rank in Overwatch 1). Players struggle to deal with Mercy pulling off these rezzes in the majority of ranks (and just Mercy in general), where the majority of the player base resides. To put it into perspective a little bit more, my friends and I have this friend, in Overwatch 1 she was
The whole argument of “not every can pull off *insert part of kit*” or “it requires skill so it’s ok is the worst logic ever. Mobas, competitive fps etc don’t balance around “oh difficulty to play means something is allowed to be unbalanced or too strong”. That’s terrible logic to apply here. In dbd the nurse has been the strongest killer since the games inception and even through the nerfs. People use to argue “oh she’s difficult to play so its ok that she is the only killer to ignore the games entire design and mechanics”. It’s a bad argument in all honesty.
I think that comparison is somewhat bad. Most of the abilities in Ow are things that have counterplay. Even if unfun. If your getting headshot by a skilled player, you need to find better ways to position yourself. If mercy is getting rez and that annoys you, watch her, wait for rez and kill her when she's reviving her target. The issue with the nurse is you as a survivor can barely interact with her, because she breaks the rules of the game itself. A good nurse will take out a whole lobby because the counterplay against her is almost non-existent since she can just go through any obstacle that'd separate you from her.
@@BlazeWolf9511yea the nurse was just an example towards going against gameplay mechanics and what not. Like the abilities they compared Rez too are all utility designed to prevent death where as mercy is designed to rewrite it so if you pocket someone they are harder to kill and when you do say kill them, she can rewrite that even if it’s only 5 times a match that’s still game changing and the other abilities you want to force out but mercy Rez you have to try and go in and prevent it depending on how likely it is which to me is not good for the game so to say but I’m leaning more on the argument of “this takes skill so it’s fair” which a lot of mobas and other games kinda realized should not be how balance works. Smite for example and other games that tried to use the “this character isn’t good at low ranks so it’s fine” type of argument
@@BlazeWolf9511but to your argument let’s say it’s defense Rialto and a pocketed Ashe has high ground and you get a very needed kill that would break a hold or choke, mercy can always just rez safe with los of the soul and behind the corner due to the distance you need to cover. The risk isn’t just on mercy it’s on not overextending and hoping the enemy doesn’t have resources to guarantee a rez. When one ability is that strong when you are winning a fight and it forces more resources from you to deal with on top of not being a “prevent death” but rather a “rewrite death” ability. That’s when it becomes an issue. At higher ranks they play natural cover, corners etc, low ranks riskier Rezes are more frequent. Immortality field cant exactly predict two dps bursting a squishy/dps using natural cover nor can life grip and even when they do, it either takes the teammate out of the frontline/fight like life grip or buys enough time. Are those abilities all dumb, yes. But one ability even if you get like 5 per 10 minutes, that’s an extra person you have to kill again.
bruh...your logic is the worst. why are you comparing a game with little to no ways of fighting back against your enemy, to a game where both teams have MANY ways of countering each other. let's take widow as an example, a great widow will not let you breathe without getting one shot, but if you don't go in her line of sight, or pick heroes that counter her you're fine.
Should change the title to "Mercy mains get angry and make excuses." Damage boost and discord orb are highly unhealthy flat out. The ease of use for both with no cooldown is of course going ti be highly abused. On both ends Zen can heal at the same time and with Mercy's beam already attached to her pocket she can immediately start healing, which as proven by Amateratsu, is more potent in a fight. Rez is an issue here, obviously, if it needs to be compared to another hero's ultimate to even make a case. With Suzu you can still dumb out enough damage to ensure the enemy are at least keeping some damage on then. The unvincibility window is short, while still being highly stupid and easy to use. Big difference here all three of those abilities are super easy to utilize and overcomes a ton of damage that took countless resources and effort to even jsut bypass all three supports basic healing methods. All three of then are really unhealthy. "Mercy is the best support to use to be aware of your surroundings." Bro this says your hero is so lazy and relaxed in gameplay that you have room to do that when other supports have to juggle cooldowns with their triage and try to ping at the same time. A good example is Eskay one of thee best supports around. That woman's gamesense is like 4d chess and she does this on her main LUCIO who has to rely on toggling his auras, maintain mobility, staying aggressive, keeping close to allies, and managing far worst cooldowns on less heals then Mercy. With a clunky weapon while tied to only vertical surfaces. Any support can and should be doing that. That isn't a Mercy specific strength at all it shows more ease of use than anything. And the Mercy mains blame "sexism"?! Excuse me, but men main Mercy too. Love how there's sexual segregation by the Mercys here. This "Fun for me only" mentality is so toxic.
Hi, i’m the bottom right reaper here! First of all i just wanted to say that being a part of this video was a great time and I had a lot of fun. I think the end part came out great and i’m glad that the debate got its own video because it got kind of messy as you can tell. I think the main points i’m seeing in these comments and in twitter replies are that people are upset that misogyny was brought up in general, and there are people from both sides that either do or do not believe in that take arguing about it. First of all, I will partly take responsibility for this, as I shifted the topic away from the main one by asking a different question entirely. (though i felt we had hit a wall and were just repeating ourselves with the other one) Yeah it kinda sucks that we were put on the spot, and it definitely made it tough to respond without saying the wrong thing and becoming the villain of the overwatch community instantly, but i do feel that the topic needed to be addressed at some point because it is a major problem, especially with mercy. As we kind of concluded in the video, there definitely is a significant portion of “mercy haters” that fall into the category of only doing it because they are misogynistic, but it is definitely not everyone, and i wouldn’t say it is even the majority, especially not among people who actually care about the game and want to see it in a positive state. Obviously i am speaking from a point of privilege here as i don’t personally get attacked for being a woman online, but i just don’t believe that it’s fair to draw a conclusion that misogyny -> mercy hate. Other than that topic, I think this debate is rough, because as corny and dumb and loserish as it might sound, mercy hate is on a spectrum. I didn’t really get a chance to say this at all but I just genuinely dislike getting a mercy on my team as a main tank player. It doesn’t provide me any value whatsoever (yeah ik entitlement blah blah) and mercy is such an inconsistent hero because it relies nearly entirely on your team to be able to make plays for you. And even with rez and valk, you just have to hope your team can take advantage of your resources, rather than just being a net positive for everyone all the time on other heroes, ALONG with having your own personal play making ability. I won’t get too much into it, but that is essentially why i hate mercy players. There are just so many of them, mixed with the one-trick nature of the hero, and they make the tank experience (and their own for that matter) even more inconsistent in solo Q than it would be without them. As for balance, I think inconsistent is also the word i would have used looking back on this debate. Sometimes damage boost is completely broken and the pocketed pharah is deleting everyone the whole game, and sometimes they die 21 times in 8 minutes with no kills and get rolled. Same with rez. Sometimes you can get a crazy rez in the middle of a team and it wins you a fight, and other times you look like an idiot and throw completely. And because all of this is wrapped up into a character that has a very low skill floor, and a lower skill ceiling than most of the other characters on the support roster, it becomes extremely unfun and frustrating to play with and against, because there is no consistency or way to feel like you have control over these situations. Its not like zen where I can always press Q when my team gets graved and save them, i have to hope that my mercy can pull x rez off and nobody shoots her, or hope that my sojourn gets a headshot with the damage boost and gets a pick. Its just up to luck at times for everyone involved, which is i think the unhealthiest thing for the game possible. Obviously i don’t want every game to play out the same way every time, the chaos is a massive part of why i love overwatch, and why the game works in the first place. But when a single character fundamentally turns the game into a dice roll it ruins the experience. Thank you, -Void
I dont understand how people are even beginning to compare suzu and rez, suzu is undeniably better but it also requires far more skill?? A suzu has to be aimed, the timing has to be precise and if you genuinely look at the outcome of a successful suzu and a successful rez you'll notice that its still super common for a fight to be lost despite suzu yet a fight can be won entirely due to rez.
You can tell how uncomfortable the two tank mains are when the mercy players bring out the sexism card. Yes, misogyny exists - no, it is not a small problem. But does that really need to be brought up like this? At this point it’s just a tactic to feel like you’re correct about everything while also being a victim. It’s a video game. Talk about the game. Come on.
This was super interesting, although I wish it was a little more structured because they kind of ended up ranting about the same things for a good portion.
Anything in particular you’d like to see for future debates, as far as structure goes? I’m more than happy to hear any ideas you might have, and I’ll do my best to implement any positive changes 🫶🏻
@@ChristalRainemaybe structure it with a buzzer system, because at times they also were talking over eachother at times. It could be a good idea to focus in on the actual player who is speaking instead of the debate team as s a whole as well. Loved the video keep up the great work :)
it would be good if you could steer the conversation back to the main question when it gets of track, and state what conclusions the arguments came to and if everyone agrees whit it@@ChristalRaine
On 1 side I get that it socks when ur dps suck for a game cuz ur pocket feels more useless, but 1 important thing that all mercy mains know and it's the real reason they play her, including me, and that's the fact that guardian angel is by far the most fun movement ability once u get good at it. Slingshoting back and forth dodging attacks and saving ur team is the most fun
Top 500 support main here. I love these conversations but i wish the mercy players didnt jump straight into the "men are sexist so they dont like mercy" mindset. I've got almost 3k hours on mercy and its not very fun holding onto a dps and letting them 1/2 tap everyone on the map/ Rezzing is fun when you can pull some nullshit off with it ngl. I agree that one tricking is bad in comp and should be bannable as its throwing the moment you get countered and refuse to swap. I'd rather try a different character than 1 trick mercy or any other hero into a lobby you dont belong in. Most mercy mains are afraid to admit it but they cant aim and so if they feel dps isnt high enough or that their dps suck they go moria. I normally think its GG if i see a mercy one trick on me team and swap to anna /kiri/bap to make up for basically a 4v5. That isnt to say Mercy is useless but if the enemy team is playing dive and mercy get insta deleted by sombra-tracer-Winton/Dva and refuse to swap its hard to cover for their mistakes. Great video I wish we can get some zen haters vs zen enjoyers or one tricks vs one trick haters next.
I’m not strictly against damage boost but I do agree is sucks for balancing because characters get balanced around having a mercy in the game. So they need a mercy in the game to be at their balanced state, which often isn’t the case. I play support and Im running loads of illiari right now but my pool is illiari ana bap zen kiriko moira and then to a lesser extent I do Lucio and brig but only on situations where they’re needed, but with a mercy on the other team suddenly has a “dps diff” and I can’t outheal the speed of damage coming through and my team isn’t quite on that level to deal with it since I’m in plat. I put out a lot of damage too, usually on par with or above the DPS (I still put out a lot of healing too. I just used to play a lot of private games with masters and diamond players so the pace is different. I hate the way ranked works so I do like 15 games a season if that. Thats why I’m just in plat. I want the consistent gold gun points more than the rank) but support is so hard to out damage a dps gap because you have to shift your focus. Just don’t like a character being “balanced” when a mercy is there because it makes them unbalanced and weak when the mercy is not there
Male Mercy main here. Yeah the sexism part is a big aspect of getting flammed though. I have comms off until someone has an issue (talking shit) and usually it's silence due to them thinking I'm a kawaii e-tart or something. Also I hate the argument of boost being unfair. The goal of being support is to negate the enemy teams progress. Love the vid. Sorry for the long comment and I'm subbed 🤘😁
@@-NoNo. RIGHT!? But from what I've read from the many reddit forums and comments on UA-cam, Mercy players just want to be left alone. I'm that way. I want the bitching to stop because no matter what, people can feel like she's unfair but this game has no hard unfairness. A good player gets rolled sometimes like mid players in my opinion. Oh and fuck being a bot. I kill widows. 😌
People often call me e-girl and that I "pocket my bf" when I play Mercy and because of that I often have to text to them that I am the boy. After that,the whole shit-talk ends
people don't have a problem with mercy they have a problem with people that play mercy, but they don't want to admit that. Therefore these mercy debates are always so pointless.
This is untrue tbh. Mercy is a terribly designed character for multiple reasons: Dmg boost breaks damage threshholds, resulting in multiple nerfs to dps characters when the problem is damage boost Mercy requires minimal skill for the amount of value you get out of the hero Mercy movement is incredibly strong, resulting in a lot of moments where Mercy can feel near unkillable Mercy pocket is extremely boring to play against. Making a target feel as if they are nano'd while using decent positioning makes Mercy impossible to see, resulting in a buffed target while Mercy cannot be punished Resurrect is incredibly unfair due to how the LOS checks work. You should have to maintain LOS of the soul for the entire resurrect duration
@@-NoNo. No other support has a resurrect ability. No other support can stand still, not aim, and not use their brain like Mercy can. There are actual Masters/GM mercy players who will stand still because they know they don't have to do anything and they will still capitalize on their value. It is true that all supports can "pocket", but not with the same dependency that Mercy has due to her mobility which focuses around her teammates. Mercy also does not miss her healshots. She is a consistent 55 hps without any room for error. She cannot be dived as easily as other supports due to her 1.5sec/2.5sec cooldown on GA.
Mercy is an amplifier if the person you pocket is bad they will still be bad but if they are good you will make them unstoppable. Played against a guy who used a trigger bot with wall hacks, the dude himself was ass you could still win a 1v1 but he had a constant mercy pocket making him unkillable. I don't mind the damage boost but the constant healing it's like you're fighting something with overhealth.
I don’t think people are mad at damage boost or rez bc of the ability’s it’s the fact that we make other characters unplayable with nerds instead of nerfing the actual problem and same with rez I doubt ppl would hate it if it was actually balanced and made it so you can rez behind walls
I'm not a mercy player but I always find it hard to believe that merct haters actually want to play the more punishing game their arguments imply would be ideal for overwatch. And while the two in the atgument might not be sexist the fact that mercy is the topic is based on our culture of mysogony. Kiri and bapt are both way more problematic and their immortalitues are both on lower cds than res, which locks mercy into an animation while bap and kiri can more or less do whatever they want while also making someone untouchable.
This was really interesting to listen to. I do think both sides had compelling arguments, but I was slightly upset the misogyny card was played, because while it is a HUGE issue in this community and needs to be addressed, it completely derailed the argument (literally watching the reapers stumble over their words cause the Mercy essentially put them in an argument minefield was painful) and wasn't really applicable here. It really showed the issue with the Mercy playerbase, Mercy isn't a perfectly crafted character, she's a great beginner character but she does have Flaws, and there are many arguments for rez and damage boost being harmful Abilities (though I don't believe the reaper's portrayed those arguments very good) so ignoring these arguments and conflating a majority of this criticism as sexism is just bad faith arguing. If you work under this logic for everything, then no dialogue can ever be had because the criticism can always be conflated as bigotry. I also Disliked the argument that no one receives hate like Mercy's do - this just isn't true, in fact one of the Mercys bring up Genji as an example, which is just absurd to me because for like the first year or 2 of OW1's lifespan, Genji mains were clowned on with the memes about Genji's crying for healing or going in solo, dying and complaining, even I was guilty of rolling my eyes when someone chose Genji, the Reapers also brought up the Baptiste hate which is pretty valid. Other characters have or still do receive hate, the reason why Mercy receives seemingly more hate is because she's had her issues for much longer and they are more impactful on a flow of a game. Finally, the one-trick argument seemed super bad faith and manipulative on the Mercy's end, at one point one of the Mercys either purposely or unintentionally perceive a Reaper's argument that one tricks are bad as him hating people liking to play a character, which is an obviously incorrect interpretation of this argument (which makes me believe this was purposeful). The Mercys also just seem to hand-wave the reaper's criticism of one tricking by saying "Would you rather she play a character she can't play well", no, he would rather you learn more than one character so you can swap. You aren't forced to only learn and play the first character you select in your lifespan in the game. One tricks are inherently bad for the game, simply because the game is based around swapping to counter your enemy, it doesn't matter how skilled you are in your one trick, there will be scenarios where they simply don't work, and your inability to play more than one character costs other players the game. I do want to give the Mercy's their credit though, they had a much stronger mechanical argument, their point about characters using an equal amount of resources to counter an opponent was very well explained. Furthermore, it was very clear that the Reapers had poor understanding of Mercy's playstyle and got rather rude during that part of the argument (specifically when they just parroted "no." "no." "no." While mercy was trying to argue about enjoying the character) and when the Mercy's criticised them for not understanding how to play Mercy, they got super defensive and made it clear she was right. The Reaper's point about forgiving mistakes is also quite flawed, every support has a free mistake forgive, including your supports, just like how the enemy mercy can rez their Winston who made a mistake, YOUR lifeweaver can lifegrip you from danger when you make a bad charge on Rein, you both have supports and therefore both have free mistake forgiveness. Yeah, I really enjoyed watching this, I was arguing at my TV the entire way through 😅 which is a great sign that the debate was engaging. To clarify, I'm a support main myself (specifically Zenyatta and Lifeweaver) and I'm completely with the cause that support mains get way too much hate, but I also can't deny that Mercy players have become super entitled and unenjoyable to speak to (specifically on twitter and discord, in game most mercy mains I interact with are lovely). tl;dr Mercy mains won the mechanics argument by having a better understanding of the character, but lost the social argument by being oddly manipulative and bad faith when arguing.
To be fair, the reapers were the ones that brought that on themselves. They did ask why people hate mercy so much and the mercy players responded with a big contributing factor of mercy hate. I just want to give you props on how thought out and well written this comment is
@@-NoNo.Thank you so much, your comment was actually what spurred me into giving my two sense on the matter. I definitely understand why the Mercy's brought the misogyny aspect up to the Reapers, it's undeniably a massive issue, to the point id argue that up to 20% of the hate Mercy players receive is motivated by sexism (which really shows how far the community has fallen) however personally I never felt that the Mercy's gave the criticism a fair shot. Naturally they are biased, but I think you should always try to keep an open mind
@@oja9483 I’m flattered, also this community has always been like this. It’s not a recent development. I think back to that clip of xqc (one of the biggest streamers ever) openly cussed out a female mercy player and called her a boosted egirl (among many other things) with the rest of the team cheering him on while the mercy player was audibly in tears because of the things he was saying about her. It’s disgusting and he sent that message to thousands of young viewers
I love the fact that they say the sexism thing on Mercy and that people expect a Mercy to be bad or to be a girl. When I've heard so many times people say similar things on other supports, and it's even worse. I literally had games where people throw because the other support or I play a Moira, Lucio, or Zen. When they see these heroes, they expect they are garbage and throwing. And when a player is playing Mercy the majority that I have encountered in NA servers are male. The coincidence of a female playing Mercy during any game of QP, Comp, Arcade and even Custom is rarely seen at least in my games.
Don’t think of it as ‘most are male’, think about how many Mercy mains you encounter that aren’t in voice. Frankly I seriously doubt anyone knowingly encounters that many mercy mains. So many keep their profiles hidden.
Personally I don't blame anyone for one-tricking. That's a psychology problem that OW1 didn't account for, and OW2 *tried* to address that problem, but ultimately didn't do enough. Judging how inconsistent the devs have been about this philosophy, I don't even know if they even want to actually fix this. ;/
As a mercy main with a peak of 3652 (aka masters 3-4ish) and currently masters 4. To address the main issues: 1. Mercy’s movement is her skill expression and her only real self sustain because she can’t heal herself so she has to move around to stay alive since shes commonly focused. 2. Mercy’s dmg boost is her real/main utility. unlike characters like kiri, ana, and bap they can heal AND dps at the same time, mercy’s main point is being able to dmg boost/heal and she can only do ONE at a time while also not being able to do damage herself so dmg boost makes up for it. 3. Mercy rez is situational and needs to be able to move out of LOS or she could never get a rez of seeing as it can already be a struggle. Rez’ing also comes with multiple cons such as not being able to heal/dmg boost, shes stuck in place leaving herself vulnerable, and its long CD along side its rare opportunities in actual fights. Overall, the whole point of supports is to have agency in team fights and have big effects. Ana nade, kiri suzu, bap immortality, etc. Thats the point of a support, to SUPPORT the team through external means and not outright dps. Wherever you stand, you have to admit every role has a broken character, rammatra, orisa, widow/ashe/hanzo, and ana/bap/kiri/ and mercy depending on where you stand. rather than focus and solo out one character, the dev team and community should look at all the characters as a whole.
Everyone saying the Mercy is hate is based on on women playing but I don’t think this is true. Dva is a also representation of the women gaming community and she doesn’t get nearly as much hate as mercy does. Because Dva is not a cornball character she actually needs to make plays, it has nothing to do with about who’s specifically playing .
Feel like the mistake fixing is not the problem . The main problem is having characters surpass their base dmg to the point of breaking the game . Discord , sombra new hack debuff and mercy boost is the problem here . I’ll admit immortality effects do break the flow of death but that depends on how bad or good the healers are while mercy boost & orb don’t take really any skill to it except skill in survival & Decision making . Bottom line mercy hate is unwarranted but boost & discord orb just make it impossible to have a balanced ability without the possibly of one shots .
That is a good point they made about damage boosting/discord abilities and damage breakpoints, but I think if they get rid of damage boost, then discord also needs to go. For my elo, zen discord is a much bigger problem than Mercy. I also agree that rez is very unfun to play against, especially on certain sniper maps. Circuit Royale feels like you pretty much have to go mercy/sniper to win, especially if the other team is also doing that. It's like dps doom from ow1; it's not fun to play against or with for anyone but the person playing the hero. They need to give her other abilities to replace the oppressive ones, though.
I’m a little late, but I agreed with the reaper duo the most when they brought up the fact that there are other heroes you can play that do what Mercy does, but they can do it better (time is @ 10:20). The Mercy’s just deflected the next comment or incoming thought by saying “playstyle choice”. If I was one of those reapers I would’ve shut down that argument with “and you guys probably still choose mercy because you either can’t aim or don’t want to choose a better character that has to aim”. Mercy is extremely easy to play. I went unranked to high masters just playing mercy to test the waters. Hell, even on my main account when I play mostly Ana/Bap, but wanna be relaxed/chill/lazy I’ll auto lock Mercy. Even if another mercy main and her duo ask me to swap (before the game even starts) I tell them “No, I wanna relax this game and play someone easy”. These people on the reaper characters were being far too kind in this video lol. They didn’t wanna tell the hard truth how it is. 😅 Bringing in the sexism card too was such a low blow and completely derailed the whole topic of the video. Either should’ve been CUT OUT of the video or been made into a separate video as a separate topic.
Comment Add in: (I am also a female gamer). I clicked off the video as soon as she “wrapped it back around to sexism” before the 18:00 mark. Listening to them talk about that + Valorant just made listening to them an intolerable experience. Completely just went off topic. You can tell how awkward the reapers felt bc this is 9/10 the excuse Mercy one tricks fall back on when they’re visibly losing an argument.
Opinion of a veteran gamer. I've been gaming a long arse time. Gaming mechanics, in general, have many consistent technical and principle familiarities. OW is not complex to figure out tactically. - DPS scores the goals (Gets the Kills) - Tanks control the midfield (Dominates the space of play) - Support controls the defence (Reduces player death rate while initiating the first stages of offensive play. ) Note: While many will argue against this point of support initiating offensive play, the simple truth is your support sees more of play than any other role, has the best positional sense, and should dictate the lines of play. Simply put. Go where your support goes, because any team that extends too far beyond its its support, is a player likely to have higher rates of death, and an old arse unwritten pvp principle number is: "A dead player deals no damage." Rarely does this happen tho as DPS and Tanks tend to initiate themselves as the decision makers. On Mercy. Her skillsets excel as a purely defensive lynchpin more than any other hero, while the other technical support offers more utilitarian skills. Mercy's abilities, from healing behind walls, movement in skies, and revives, are primarily defensive and her dmg boost is the only offensive base skill she has and is not beneficial unless the Tank is on form, dictating the area in play so that the boost can be supplied to offensive pushes. Valkryie Ult in the hands of a good mercy is excellent for final pushes against entrenched last line group defences. Long story short. If Mercy offers little value compared to other supports, then there is no reason to complain about the value Mercy does bring. I.E Revives, Healing and Boosts.
@@fernando5230 And then the conversation diverted into an useless "male vs female" argument for no reason. Wouldn't have happened with 4 girls or 4 guys discussion
as an ex-mercy main, i agree that mercy one-tricks who refuse to learn secondary/tertiary supports are really toxic but i'd argue you could say that about any one-trick. however, while mercy requires skill and game sense to play effectively, the skill floor to be decent at her is way lower than other supports. for example, other supports are able to consistently dps and heal when it's more effective for mercy to right click blue beam and zip around or stay out of sight. she's the supp i play when i'm on my last braincell after work or to learn new maps. also, the guy discrediting misogyny being an issue and then being like "idc if you're black, asian, green" lost me entirely with that nonsense. stay in your lane and don't mention racism, especially if you have to equate bipoc with something that doesn't exist. that shit is literally dehumanizing and diminishes our experiences.
i'd rother play with a really good moria and lucio player then have me being every mercy player's punching bag whenever something goes wrong. one tricking mercy kills the game imo
Sojourn was nerfed because of damage boost and now nobody plays Sojourn any more 😂 Mercy rez should be an ult not an ability. Mercy movement should be brought back to the fun speedy mercy movement. And damage boost should have a cooldown like moira healing. Mercy rez is not hard. If your teammates play corners you can just hide behind a wall and get EVERY rez.
The last argument could have been summed up saved 6 minutes and avoided going off topic if they had just said “that Mercy isn’t an all purpose hero like say Kiriko. Even if they can’t play Kiriko for max potential, her all purpose kit provides more value than max potential Mercy in the same situation. Mercy can’t fit into every single comp that an Ana or Kiriko can, regardless of mastery of said hero.”
(´･ᴗ･ ` ) honestly just a simple solid 15% discord on tanks 25% everyone else 20% dmg boost then ignore sym, mei, reaper, sombra and tank players will be happy💖
Pretty much. It's an Attackers (DPS) vs Defenders (Support) issue. Attackers do not like to play against a Defence that can actually compete and stop them. They want weakened enemies and easy kills.
@@TwistedwithPower yeah, like they are all against mercy, and Ana, and Baptiste, and Kiriko, until they are the ones getting benefitted. Then it's fine. Like the one guy even said "I'm fine till we are losing, then I look for the problem" and to me that just says "as soon as I meet the first sign of adversity I'm finding someone to blame and it's mercy, or me, and it ain't me. So the mercy must be the problem"
One of the Mercys made a great point. Mercy can't always go for a res because it's not always safe to. Bap, Kiri, usually don't need to worry about whether or not it's safe enough for lamp, suzu, or pull. It's a quick one button instant ability that can be done from afar
This people are the most biased people can we have a little less people that biased like sexism should not be a talking point about how your character is harder
The only problem i have with mercy is she makes pharah unkillable along with a couple others while also making heros like echo and pharah need to be built worse at base because they benefit so much from mercy, im an echo main and i barely get pocketed by mercy, idk what it is but ive climbed to masters and peeked gm once since i started playing echo back in ow1 when she was realsed and i always hear that mercy like pocketing me but it happens like once every 5to 10 games maybe, so its not worth it for me to be nerfed overall for the chance at getting a mercy that knows just hard pocketing me is the best route to winning for them. But i had an idea for mercy and maybe even all healing in ow, and thats to make shield hp effected less by mercys heals or just heals in general, and then the devs now have a new tool to control who gets heals. Imagine how much easier balancing orisa and pharah would be, give orisa shield hp so shes abit more self sufficient but now double pocketing her is less effective then double pocketing say rein. Or pharah with a 50/50 split on hp and shield hp, is now actually not worth pocketing but pharah now has self sustain and now we can maybe balance mercy abit better as well. Which i also think this could be a cool idea for dmg boost but give the player receiving the dmg boost agency over shooting it by making them change mercies beam when they shoot and now the player controls when they get dmg boost and now you can nerf it so its maybe 10% and when the dmg amp applies it nerfs the healing in half if not more so the player now cant shoot while being lifelined on heals, and they also wont have a massive dmg boost on one shot abilities but this ofc would help fast firing heros like soldier but again if theyre shooting they arent gaining much heals, but this one is abit iffy and maybe needs some tweaks to fit in better, but the first idea with the shield hp would be a great addition i think, and could be applied to all heals and a variety of different heros to better balance healing in the game and if heals are more managed, then maybe supports can focus more on dmg and utlity like they should and then support might be more fun for lower ranks which will solve this problem where supports need to be giga buffed dps just for low rank players to enjoy it. Because rn supports in lower ranks play like heal bots because their dps and tanks make to many mistakes for them to actually play the game but if there were more dps that didnt benefit from heals yet had more self sustain, it would encurage teams to not rely so heavily on their supports. Paladins has something similar where caut makes heals not very effective late game and most heros can build self sustain into their kits but ofc this is abit excesive as heals go from op to non existant in that game but support isnt nearly as hated over there because theres alot less pressure on the class to heal its teams.
@@ruthortega6192 yep just kill mercy, wish we all thought of that 7 or so years ago when pharmercy first started causing people troubles 😂 shes totally not the most hot button topic that even top 500 agree is broken and unbalanced for 5v5, she was bad enough in 6v6 but now I see even top 500 players just throw their hands up when facing her and with one shots being nerfed, now you cant even pick widow into her and just 1 shot them unless they get close and in masters every pharah knows that effective range now so the odds of killing either fast enough over an over again without help from your team is much much more unlikely then killing anything else in the game and not all of us can consistently hit heads as hanzo so can you please politely explain how one reliably puts down a mercy now that widows range is garbage? Also the pharah is usually easier to kill in my experience then the mercy so your advice is kinda flawed as well, since at least the pharah has a bigger hitbox and moves much more predictably while mercies in my lobbies are moving like actual fighter jets pulling off crazy u-turns with a smaller hitbox and she heals herself as she heals others so she heals herself just as much as she heals pharah so while that was an optimal choice in ow1, in ow2 after mercies changes I wouldn't say that's the most optimal choice since I typically beat pharmercy as echo by sticking some crazy mid air combo and blowing her up faster then the mercy can heal her but it's still not easy at all, especially if the enemy has a hitscan or something suppressing me while my supports went moira lucio or something 😂
@@ruthortega6192 plus this isnt just about pharmercy, its about healing in general, idk how my idea could possibly offend anyone, as it benefits everyone as supports wont be required to heal bot in lower ranks, which is undeniably why support never gets queued for, it's not verity like the devs think since dps may have a larger pool of heros, less of those heros are viable then support, every support is almost always viable while typically theres only a hand full of viable dps so adding more supports will never solve the problem of lower ranks hating the playstyle of support since it's literally heal bot simulator, and then it benefits dps as theyll have more agency over their own healing rather then having those moments where you're to far away from med packs at 1 hp while your supports straight up ignore you, and then this will also allow for more verity amongst supports since half their kit wont need to be dedicated to healing, now we can more so focus on the utility and dmg side of supports but please poke holes in my idea, constructive criticism is always great, as long as its constructive lol And as an echo main I'm fully aware this will nerf those games where I also pop off due to a mercy pocket as few and far between as they can be, I do know its not fun for my enemies when you give me a mercy pocket, I just absolutely squash teams single handedly when I get that mercy pocket 😂
@@jasonmension3979 I am a support main in lower ranks and while there are some games I do end up having to heal bot (lower ranks don't know how to avoid damage), it doesn't happen often as I try not to follow stupid. I prefer Mercy, but do swap off to Moira, Ana, Bap and Brig depending on what's happening in the game. In lower ranks, I find it difficult to find a dps that is worth hard pocketing. Most of the time pharah and echo only get me killed while missing every shot they fire. I've also been headshot plenty of times without a Mercy pocket involved so I don't know what DPS is complaining about. I guess that is just the difference in gameplay between the ranks. As far as rarely getting a Mercy pocket, they don't know you...they don't know how you play...If you want a consistent Mercy pocket, befriend a Mercy main and queue with them. Pocketing an Echo or Pharah isn't exactly easy as we are not mind readers and don't know what your plan is so most of the time it's just not worth the risk. As far as supports that straight up ignore you, a good support will prioritize their life over yours. If we can't heal you without exposing ourselves or we're currently trying to get away from the enemy, we aren't going to heal you. If a support doesn't have healing, then they're just another DPS so is you're idea to completely eliminate the role of support?
@@ruthortega6192 exactly we agree, you dont wanna feel pressured to heal echos and pharahs and I dont want mercies pocketing me for heals but if her primary reason for existing is dmg boosting then she would provide alot of value still to a team without needing to just heal so mercy will still be great for a team but she wouldn't be making dps immortal in your spawn killing you and taking offangles you cant pressure them from. She would still be able to heal and dps boost her teammates nearby and that's why heros like mcree and them would have more actual hp still so you can keep them safe in the positions they take, this just would most likely be targeted at the heros that have crazy movement and get heals so they become impossible to reliably kill because if you cant nuke them they just heal up instantly and these heros are meant to not be hit often so having to kill one without letting them have a second break is abit rough.
For the first argument saying that people should get punished for their mistakes. It’s just really funny they are saying that when they are on Reaper. Reaper, Mei, Tracer, Zaria, and to an extent even Ram, Queen, Hog, Torb and Sym all have things where if they mess up then they can get out of there! So I feel like it’s not crazy that a SUPPORT has something to get their teammates out of a situation. Not to mention for most supports these get out of jail free stuff only works on teammates, so why are the people who are receiving this blessing also the ones who are complaining? Quite literally if a Reaper dives in, fails to get a kill, and then wraiths out people think it’s fine. But if a Reaper dives in, fails to get the kill, but then have a Lifeweaver pull them out, then it’s too much for the game? The same thing goes for rez, Mercy has to GO IN to pull it off and leave herself vulnerable, Kiriko needs to tp in and suzu which leaves her vulnerable, Bap needs to get either a good angle or close enough to throw immortality which then leaves him more vulnerable. So where is any of this bad? The only one who can possibly consistently stay safe with their get out of jail free ability is LW and Bap, but then after they pull that off too much- guess who’s getting targeted for the rest of the game!
I think damage boost is only an issue on a few select hero's and those could be resolved by capping the max (for single damage boost), my beef is that tank can be rezzed to full health with the same animation time. Either rez at lower health or increase rez timer for tanks. I'd also be open to adjusting rez so that hp upon rez is proportional to animation duration. This would also give them the option to do faster rez for characters that died behind cover and can just be healed
All this explains is that people are exhausting and disagreeing doesnt do anything. Explaining doesnt work with people who are biased, just carrying on with you life
bruh if you don't like immortalities, rez, dmg amps, etc then don't play overwatch?? go play call of duty or cs or smth.. These things have been in the game for ages and they're not going away lol it's just a very natural part of the game's more moba-like features damn. Also i can't understand how so many overwatch players think that they are entitled to definining other people's experience of the game by thinking they have to switch. "This game requires switching characters" said who? these dudes tryna make a whole government on how to play a game. When I'm in ranked I know the only thing i can control is MY gameplay, so if i want to win a game and i see that i have to switch to give my team a fighting chance i will, but i never expect anyone to do so, that's their business not mine. Which is why i find it ridiculous that ppl keep track of counters during matches and go on chat to tell someone to switch as if we're here to service them? I don't expect a tank or dps to switch when they are being hard countered and feeding, just like i don't expect my other support to switch to help counter something, i may want it and hope for it but i am not entitled to it. Maybe they can't play anything else, or maybe they're a cracked streamer who can play most characters better than you but is on a hammond marathon or mood. You literally don't know and either way your whining isn't going to change anything but get morale low. You get my point? Not. Your. Business. All you can expect someone to do in a game is what they queued up for: playing, and if it is competitive, trying to win, period. And these selfish ass players make their wants and opinions out to be universal truths that they then base demands and complaints off of, please... the entitlementtt. This is why ppl barely speak in rlly high ranks unless they're stacking, they played long enough to learn to mind their own business lmao
nothing inherently wrong with mercy it’s just sexism? cmon man they were talking about how majority of supports will watch ult economy and it’s easy to do that while sitting back blue beaming an Ashe
The second sexism or misogyny is brought up I'm checking out of the conversation. I want to have a discussion about the health of a hero in the game. They bring up the treatment of women in gaming and that's an entirely different discussion that's not signed up for and it's just an easy fall back excuse on the argument at hand in regards to mercy once they run out of counterpoints that will silence their opposition. It's so frustrating.
Nah these (probably) dps mains got it worng. They said a few years ago, Bap was the one hated. Yeah, BUT Mercy was hated even BEFORE BAP EXCISTED. Also these people don't want supports, they want "healers", because what they've mentioned are all team supporting abilities. 🙄🙄 So according to them, we should get rid of every supporting ability and just keep their healing 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
It seems like the reapers mainly have an issue with supports in general having immortality-like abilities and not JUST Mercy. They just want heal bots and that is NOT what being a support is about!
If the whole issue with damage boost is that it creates one shots that wouldn't have existed if she wasn't in the game, why not just make her damage boost have a cap, say, 175 damage in one shot, instead of trying to balance every damage number on every hero that Mercy pockets. So if X hero would've done 180 damage in one shot without being boosted, the +25% could be either removed or lowered to 10-15%. Now for rez, I, personally, would make it so it does require LOS for the duration of the cast, but give Mercy a little more movement speed, so she can at least try to dodge enemy damage, and make the valid rez sphere smaller. I believe that would make the stupid "middle of the enemy team" rezzes less prevalent in lower ranks, and would make a risky rez more of a team effort at higher ranks. And, finally, I would make her healing so that, if someone receives constant damage for more than 2 seconds, you can't heal them back up unless they don't take damage for 0.5-1 second. It IS dumb that a Winston literally cannot kill someone with a Mercy pocket, and I also think it could make Pharmercys just a little less dangerous across the board.
Yeah but you can't lie that part of the reason that people hate Mercy players is because it's a character which is overwhwlmingly played by women (and lgbt people seemingly lol, but that's another topic). People don't just call Mercy players briandead or idiots because of the hero, but because of who the person playing the hero is. Reaper is an extremely simple and easy character to play, but since your typical Reaper player are edgy guys, the stigma is not the same
@@randomsheep1165 Yeah, but that's a tiresome point. Let's talk about the character and not to a demographic. I want to know what people think on the technical point not the social aspect. But since the parties were of different gender they couldn't resist divert the point.
@jbejam2308 they did talk about the character related issues regarding Mercy. However two female players are obviously going to mention the fact that players that are often mainly played by women do receive more stigma, because of the people who play it. It's a bit naïve to have a discussion on why there's such a divisive view on Mercy in the community without mentioning such an obvious point. Edit: And gender isn't even the only factor. Male Mercy mains on voice channel (I have experienced this) are often referred to as f4gs or other homophobic insults. The hatred lots of people have for Mercy is not even because of her, but the fact that they're triggerred by the people playing the character
Personnally was very dissapointed mui totally shifted the discussion from why mercy is unhealthy to a sexism and support issue in general and possibly taking it at heart level like she was being attacked or something i personnally didn't side with the mercy side of things and any outsider would just be confused on this discussion, as the talking points were unrelated to the topics at hands, they mostly discuss other topics at hand and derail the situation, i do hope you make another one and one that doesn't derail, as one player simply wasn't on the headspace or wasn't ready for this discussion. Im just very glad it didn't got ugly and was ammended so cheerios.
personally very disappointed that women have to experience sexism for playing a specific character or role. it might not be an important conversation for YOU, but most of the hate mercy players receive is because of sexism and not simply bc they think shes overpowered. despite the fact that the 5% dmg boost nerf didn't really affect any of her usual synergies, she is now being referred to as the worst support in the game by EVERYONE. how could such a small change take her from overpowered to useless? bc she wasnt broken to begin with. ppl arent and were never mad that mercy was "too strong" they just hate women.
I think the conversation shifted because of the questions that the dps players asked. They asked the mercy players “why do you think people hate mercy” and the mercy players properly responded. And the talk of other supports was warranted and necessary for the overall discussion of “why does mercy get so much hate when other supports are better, do more damage, and have easier get out of jail free cards”. The answer to that question is at least in part due to what the mercy players discussed. I’m not even a woman and I get called homophobic slurs just for picking her and comming in the voice chat, I can only imagine what it’s like for women. It became a discussion of biases found within the overwatch community and I think that’s valid because most mercy hate is personal bias and not rooted in cohesive thoughts.
skill issue on there side 😭 supports need those abilities. you can't balance something or change something completely like rez because people are just bad at the game and don't know how to shut down a mercy res just get better there's so much cc that can literally just shut down a 30 second cooldown that can most of the time literally kill that mercy and now they're losing a lost fight even more because she tried to bring back that teammate
I’m new to Overwatch so idk how much my opinion would matter and maybe it’s ADHD or something but I feel like Mercy is just too hard for me. There’s so much going on on the screen I just can’t keep up 😭 Edit: I also kinda feel like if u agree there’s misogyny in gaming why is it so hard to admit that most people hate on Mercy because of misogyny? Like there are valid reasons to not like the character that have nothing to do with bigotry but come on…
All characters required game sense. But Mercy doesn't require any mechanical skill, something that at least on PC you need to train constantly to be competitive; hence why people think she is easy to play (which true). There is no character easier to play than Mercy and their mains are at the bottom of the barrel in skill. I think Mercy mains deserve all the criticism they are receiving.
Wtf? This is supposed to be a discussion about Mercy balance, and that person is unironically crying, "but muh wamenz its sexism!"? Ffs. Mercy mafia stfu. I like and play Mercy, but every time I hear the weapons-grade copium coming from the mafia, I wish that blizz would come in and nerf Mercy into oblivion just to get it over with.
‘All these other heroes do the exact same thing but better’ Ok. So what’s your issue with Mercy then? Just admit the issue is because she’s thought of as someone that women play and we can all move on.
The fact that y’all can’t comprehend that nobody cares lol, “oh the hero isn’t fun for other people boo hoo” that’s an opinion, and cope dude nothings gonna change
@@therainbowcat5342 Dude. They said they don't like mercy and instead of them just understanding mercy isn't fun for them. They start saying that they didn't play her correctly
Thanks for watching! I have the main OverThink video with 5 mercy haters vs 5 mercy players, if you haven’t checked it out, you’ll definitely enjoy it! 🫶🏻 ua-cam.com/video/4GSSHzYzCM8/v-deo.htmlsi=5c1lCSQj2nyaT-hz
Discord could be more balanced in 6v6 because youre only discording 1/6th of their team, but 1/5th is 20% of their team discorded. I think the 5v5 format has caused some issued that were unexpected
It was absolutely for 6v6. There are two tanks that need to be discorded. However, now there isnt another tank that can help them, the tank just gets shot down and the other teammates cant do much about it unless you use suzu to cleanse discord (why???)
It's more like 1/4th bc tanks have such a large amount of their team hp
@@Pam234Yeah, that’s why Discord needs a lower damage amplification on tanks, like 15% instead of 25%. Still makes it valuable against tanks, but not too much to the point where the tanks just fall over immediately.
Zen orb should be like sombra hack, in terms of not being able to orb same person again instantly. With zen there should be a cooldown if you keep targeting the same enemy. Especially for the sake of tank
Damage boost is not balanced, simple as is. Bad design for the sake of having diverse abilities. There's a reason they removed supercharger, not because it was boring and part of the reworked Orisa. It was an "I win" button in masters and gm lobbies.
Please keep this series going! Love to a part 2 with more Mercy enthusiasts vs non Mercy players. Great video!
Just in case you didn’t know, I have the big “mercy haters vs mercy mains” video on my channel as well :) ua-cam.com/video/4GSSHzYzCM8/v-deo.htmlsi=5c1lCSQj2nyaT-hz
@@ChristalRaine cool! ill definitely give it a watch
Yeeee the word "unhealthy" shouldn't be mistaken as "annoying".
A good player knows how to deal with 'annoying' counter that hinders progress, even if that means not being able to get kill right away, or even the enemy team has better defense, or when the enemy uses their annoying utility abilities (except only moira that doesnt have one 😂), even it means to figure out how not to get killed, and make progress to win the game.
Is this a troll? Your so called annoying heroes got nerfed because of heavily biased GM players. Balance will always be a problem because people can't look outside their little bubble.
@@VioIetteMolotov what you saying is exactly true, some unhealthy skills that some hero has been exactly unhealthy for the game in the long run & that's true it's biased towards higher rank. Plus It's even more prominent on Tanks nowadays. Anyhow I was commenting the video, both dps and healer talking points did not address the differentiation between skills being unhealthy or annoying, using the word unhealthy to strengthen arguments of which does not hold the water. I hope that sums up
@@Arch732 Do I really need to quote you and repeat myself? You literally said "A good player knows how to deal with 'annoying' counter that hinders progress", which is exactly not a thing, as I already said.
It doesn't change in higher ranks. People will be biased, people will call anything unhealthy they deem unfun for themselves, because, again, they're heavily biased.
I think the damage boost conversation is a both sides are wrong thing. Let’s take sojourn for example. Soujurn does 195 damage with a fully charged headshot by herself, and even if mercy’s damage boost was at 5% (making it basically useless) sojourn would still be able to one shot with the damage boost. There’s a balance that the dev team has to strike and no character should be able to delete that much health by themselves with no assist. On the flip side I can see the frustration that would be caused by damage boost. The ashe talking point is so confusing to me tho. ashe was always able to 1 shot with mercy pocket which obviously proved to be too strong but even when they nerfed ashe so that she can’t one shot with mercy pocket, ashe still remained one of the strongest hitscans in the entire game and continues to be one of the strongest hitscans with or without mercy. They should really look into fixing mercy because mercy players aren’t exactly enjoying her and dps players aren’t enjoying playing against her
Yes! Hot take but Season 1-2 Mercy was fine. She only seems broken because the faults of 5v5. Nerfing her will just make her weak.
@itsunofficial I get you but also as I said, I don’t think any hero should be able to do 195 damage in one bullet by themselves with a non ultimate ability or weapon fire. Two sides of the same coin
Views of an ex-Mercy main (started playing her when she had mass Rez; top500 peak):
1.She fundamentally is a simple & easier hero with most value coming from decision-making & positioning.
2.Heals are decent but consistent.
3.Damage boost is fair but annoying (ie. Ashe does 150 headshot by herself but 188 currently with dmg boost; yes some thresholds are changed, but at the same time, the dps potential is higher with any other support attacking).
4.Rez is fundamentally broken. Not only is it an ability to forgive mistakes, it does so to a level beyond other abilities. Rez completely undoes the hard work the enemy team did to secure that kill, making it unfun to play against. Also, the line of sight checks & range of rez make it feel even cheaper/less consistent.
5.Her movement is annoying, but needed (and one of the most entertaining parts of her kit.... honestly preferred when superjump required skill to do)
6.Don't have any real opinions of her ult at this time...
TLDR: Mercy is a simple hero to use, but her own impact is limited. She's a great hero to learn the game & positioning, but oftentimes, there are better choices. Prioritize your life, and enable your best teammate (+ your other support). At low ranks, you will spend a lot of time healing but pistol kills can make an impact. At high ranks, you will spend most of your time damage boosting a teammate & flying around.
at least when super jump took skill she had to be grounded to pull it off now she can spam it anywhere so much so that flying in valk for safety is overkill or just unimpressive as an ult because shes airborne constantly regardless and with her bullets the size of a barn and flying not being so special ill see more and more mercys using valk just to chase down an enemy dps and the trade off being someone on her side gets killed due to being down a support just because mercy suddenly got bored with playing mercy every other ult and will just come back to rez the result of their own neglect assuming she doesnt get picked off too for being so wildly out of position by that point if it qp fine idk but i hate seeing it in high ranked of all places her base kit even breeds problems for the use of her ult which is garbage to use for offensive purposes even if they do get a pick hell it’s the only time its satisfying to see the enemy mercy rez her one dumb valk kill and pop her own ult to secure her own teams victory in a fight
Hmm.. solid arguments on both sides for the most part, but I feel like the Mercy players were trying to make rez seem harder to pull off than it actually is. I play Mercy at a decent level (low master) but getting a rez is not hard in the slightest, UNLESS you’re going for a risky one, which isn’t something you want to do regularly. Mercy is a fundamentally easy character to play, I agree 100%. Though, that’s not all there is to her. You have a relaxing job and some micromanaging to do here and there, as well as insanely fun mobility. That’s why people pick her over other supports I’d say. Good video, I just wish both sides understood each other a little better.
Yeah i agree but its different in every situation ig
Yeah mercy rez is one of the easiest abilities in the game unless you are throwing trying to rez tank in the middle of the enemy team.
@sonderbain5869 res is the easiest ability meanwhile zen with discord and harmony orb🥸
Easy to play, yes, but very hard to master (as evidence being the hardest by far to hit unranked to GM).
@@KineticSymphony^^ this
The main thing I’ve taken out of the mercy haters is that they want to make the game more easier for them basically 😂😂😂. Complaining about mercy’s Rez, lifeweaver grip, bap immortality, kiriko’s zuzu, ana’s nano boost is the reason why they are supports. Giving them the ability to not only increase the team survivability but to also contribute to provide support on defeating their opponents. It seems like they would rather blizzard completely remove it all together and just make them heal. That completely takes away the fun of being a support main. Who wants to just heal all the time? No one. To us supports it feels good to actually contribute to the team instead of just healing. It sounds boring to just heal and provide no other support. The only thing I agree from the mercy haters is that damage boost is unhealthy. It is. Pocketing pharah at times to me feels so dirty, especially if the enemy team is having a difficult time killing her. But there’s literally no way to balance damage boost. The only way how to solve it is by giving mercy a rework and give her a new ability. Which 9/10 would still get negative feedback. And that’s the only way how mercy can be effective for the team cuz mercy’s healing is not that good. Mercy Rez is not unhealthy at all. I almost hardly ever use Rez cuz of how situational it is. Either A.) will I be safe using this Rez? I won’t be sniped by hanzo or widowmaker? I won’t be dived by tracer, genji, sombra or ball? Or B.) Is my team at critical? Should I focus on healing the team or should I trust the other support to keep the team up? Scenarios like this for example is the reason why I almost rarely use Rez. But please continue making these kinds of video. I really enjoy videos like these.
Maybe smaller damage boost (like 15% instead of 25%) and a 15% fire rate and/or reload speed increase while blue beamed would make it easier to balance? If peak damage is too high with a mercy boost, the blue beam can have a power shift, which would really help with the counter balancing by nerfing the characters that mercy is good pocketing on
I like to heal all the time… if the healing is any good of course.
@@Baconator9k15% percent damage boost would make mercy a troll pick now. If that’s the case then there’s needs to be some compensation. Like increase her healing output then. I don’t agree with increasing the fire rate cuz that would throw them off guard like soujourn and Ashe. And mind u, there are time we have to switch from healing to damage boosting so that in itself would make it difficult for the pocketed to adjust.
@@30ajgoOverwatch 1 we had no choice to do healing majority of the time, but now in overwatch 2 u gotta do more than just healing. Not only to provide damage support for ur team to help secure a kill but there are times where u have to defend urself. Let’s say blizzard rounds up take away supports abilities, how will u be able to protect urself? So not only the dps have to secure more kills and ur tank has to create more space but now they have to go out of their way to protect u.
@@timeless_act I get what you’re saying but you said no one likes to heal all the time but I do. Sure you do a lot more but healing is one of my favorite things to do a support and I wouldn’t have a problem I do it all the time if it’s good.
As a former mercy one trick turned Ana main who's becoming an Illari main, I don't like mercy as a hero and not the people behind the hero for 2 major reasons:
1) mercy is the most passive hero in the game, which is why most people spam shift just to feel like they're doing something. They all even admitted this in the video and agreed on it when they said something along the lines of "mercy can't do anything 'in the moment' (which is most of the time) so she has a lot of time to look around keep track of ult economy"
2) mercy is hard to carry on because she's the only hero in the game that does not deal damage (an entire skillset) and the only carry potential she has is highly dependent on her team's skill as well as the enemy team's skill, which is a terrible hero design in a game like overwatch imo
With that being said, idc if I have a mercy on my team (one trick or otherwise). I don't go out of my way to judge a teammate (mercy or otherwise) right off the bat just for playing the hero. The hate on mercy players is rooted in misogyny and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply wrong. Maybe these two mercy haters in the video aren't misogynists themselves (although it doesn't seem like based on how they dismissed misogyny like that), but they still said that they don't like the player behind mercy and not mercy as a character, yet I didn't see the same kind of passion coming from them (nor the community) towards any other one trick players? They even dismissed it when asked about it, which is interesting.
A couple things. While I agree gaming spaces are misogynistic to an upsetting degree, I disagree with the whole “dismissing it” idea. Yea they said they don’t think that’s why it’s mercy players in specific but they also showed understanding of how toxic and misogynistic gaming is towards women and admitted they haven’t experienced because they aren’t a woman and that they aren’t going to try to invalidate their experiences because they are sure it does happen. They were just trying to get back to the discussion and I don’t blame them when recording a live video and a mercy player pulls out the sexism card during a discussion. I think that’s pretty unfair to do because obviously with all the stuttering, it seemed to make them feel like they were being tied into that crowd in a video that will be seen by a lot of people and has the biggest mercy streamer in it with a big following. Even then they still didn’t invalidate and were honestly pretty respectable about it. Also in response to one trick hate, doom one tricks get blasted on twitter, in game etc. I’m even guilty of loading into a game and seeing doom and going “well we will probably lose unless this is the 1/10 chance I get a decent doomfist on my team. Sombra in season 1 got me a lot of toxic messages and got hate on twitter etc for a the whole season. Moira one tricks get a very large amount of hate as well unless you are nova. I’ve also seen the hate sym and torb have gotten for a long time before both got touched. I think the difference is that mercy players are insanely vocal to the point where streamers don’t like talking about mercy on twitter in fear of the “mercy” mafia and it’s not exactly rooted in misogyny it’s that mercy has had such a long list of changes since overwatch 1 and mercy mains have had their hero changes, buggy, movement touched every other patch and that goes back to around/before moth meta was a thing. I think there’s probably more mercy one tricks than any character since she’s very popular. I haven’t had any bad interactions with a mercy player. I actually don’t mind having mercy wether they one trick or not because if you like something then play it. I have maybe 3 hours on mercy since overwatch 1, I don’t enjoy the hero so I haven’t had alot of experience getting hated for playing her. But I will say I’ve seen the same hate if not more (not talking about or equating misogyny I’m talking about just general hate, flaming, etc) that they talked about on my teams/enemy towards people who play moira, sombra, zen, widow, torb and sym. Again I’m not comparing misogyny to flaming, I’m speaking from general dislike/flaming that isn’t using misogynistic language. That’s been my experience. I like mercy players, one trick or not because I’d rather them be good and my hero pool helps alleviate having to heal me so she can enable others and have one less to worry about. It’s just when I go on twitter and see how mercy mains can be versus in game, it’s why I dislike the mercy player base. I’m in a sombra discord and Facebook group and we got so much hate in season 2 and partially season 5 and when our character got nerfed we were like “yea that’s kinda fair.” Again I think mercy has a huge player base and are more vocal due to a lot of factors and I’m sure a good part probably is rooted in sexism because I hated having to worry about my female friends getting hate and shitty jokes because they are speaking in lobby (since I had very introverted kind friends). So I agree a good amount is probably rooted in it but there’s a lot of factors and variables tbh
@@BetaNurse68 I have to preface this by saying that this is one gigantic block of text, I suggest you try to punctuate it more because it was really hard to read. Regardless of that, I see what you're trying to say.
Concerning moira, I did not mention her in my comment because she was dismissed in the video and I completely agree with them dismissing the character because there is a lot to be said about her, so I won't go into that. Concerning doom, symmetra, ball, hog, etc. the people that are playing them do not get constantly called "egirl", "boosted", "f-slur", etc. in game for simply playing the hero. Every character in the game gets hate, especially if the person playing it is performing above/below the enemy team's/allied team's performance. But none of them get called slurs for simply playing the hero.
Concerning the misogyny part, when I said that the mercy hate is rooted in misogyny, I simply meant that it is a cause, not necessarily the only cause. So I am glad that you came to that conclusion during your writing of that comment.
@@BetaNurse68Big facts, couldn’t have said it better myself.
@@BetaNurse68But if part of the hate is due to sexism, isn’t that a reason to discuss it? Zero people aren’t a bit sexist or a bit racist or a bit whatever. We don’t always realize it which is why it’s important to at least consider it. Not wanting to even discuss it or consider it as a possibility is silly.
@@truckerdave8465Yeah, but there is a time and place to talk about that. Talking about sexism on a topic that is discussing one tricks out of nowhere is not a good time. That is like discussing racism at Cheesecake Factory because most people get the white kind instead of chocolate. Plus I think best to get rid of racism and sexism IS to stop talking about it and focus on the person and not what gender or race they are, but bringing it up when there is no need to is doing more harm than good.
i hear a lot of people talking about how rez is bad for the game cause it forgives a mistake but i'd say as long as one shots are in the game having the ability to counter a one shot with a rez kinda justifies it, having a mercy to bring you back from that random hanzo arrow spammed through a choke is a resource spent, it might not be an ultimate used to save someone but its still a really long cooldown to counter something that can potentially happen 3-4 times a fight. as for damage boost i don't really care what they do with it, i don't play mercy much anymore cause i feel other supports just have a bigger impact i just want her movement back they can take damage boost away all together and give her something else for all i care.
What if blue beam increase attack/reload speed (like a mini Kiriko ult) instead of damage
This would throw off the DPS characters because you'll be switching between the fast and slow beam a lot. It would be more of a hindrance than anything else. If the beam only helps on reload time, it could maybe work if it's a big enough boost.
These reapers are crazy, u have to look on way different things on Lucio as on mercy as they allways say lol
Hot take, people need to stop using the word unhealthy, when they find something annoying in game. Theres a difference between an annoying ability, and one that is actually unhealthy. Rez can be annoying but has very easy counterplay. Be in a position to kill mercy while shes resurrecting a target. Thats why in higher ranks, getting a rez is harder. More people are aware and waiting for mercy to attempt it, so they can burst her down.
Oneshots are annoying but also have counterplay. Against widow or hanzo, position better. Hug walls. And move out of los quickly. Staying close to your tank can also prevent them from oneshotting you. Against a Hog, bait out his hook and jump him while its on cooldown. It was especially effective to have a ana on your team against hog to stop him from healing.
Immortality field is imo an actually unhealthy ability because it enables both the player and his team. If i go to kill bap, he can throw it on himself, and completely circumvent any agency on my part. He gets a guranteed saftey net from anything I do, because I have to interact with a deployable before i can do anything to him at all. Meaning that in a 1v1 id more likely then not, have to run, because he'll likely kill me before i can destory his deployable and finish him. The only counterplay is to wait for him to use it and then try and kill him, which is still difficult because Bap has a good gun, regen, and a relatively ok mobility option. If he puts Immortality field behind a wall, your forced to wait out its duration which, even if small guarantees that he'll heal up his team, and theres nothing you can do about it.
His immortality and Kiris suzu are also insanely easy to use. Just aim it at your feet and your essentially protected from all damage for the next couple seconds. You dont have to have a brain to use their abilities well. I feel like its be better if there abilities didnt work for them, but did save their teammates instead.
I definitely prefer dealing with Mercy over Kiri or Bap. Rez only works if you let Mercy utilize it. Otherwise it isnt an issue at all.
Res is the only counter to one shots that isn't proactive tbh. But using immortality cooldowns to avoid the chance of a one shot is niche. Though I can't lie, when I play widow I am pissed that Mercy constantly resses all my kills when I finally get them lol
@@commentbot9510 That's why you shoot the Mercy. Consider where you killed your target cuz the idea is rezzes leaves her vulnerable. 2 for 1 special.
The points that the mercy haters are making are contradictory to themselves. They think the res is fine and then they say the res is bad. They say it takes no skill, and then they say it takes skill. They say it’s both fine and not fine for low ranks and then accept that mercy is hard to play in high ranks. Which is how it is for every almost every character in the game
Although I do like the points made about affecting damage numbers. That’s a real point to be made whether that’s good or bad for the game because of what the devs do to balance strategies that can be considered too strong, like with Ashe.
@@Baconator9kAgree about the contradictions.
Fr- I also just don’t like debates like these in general, as arguments & counter points can vary from person to person. Yes, the big ones will most likely stay the same- but different people have different reasons as to why they like or dislike a certain aspect of one’s kit.
No hate to the creator of the video! I love her channel & her fun videos, I’d like to be apart of them. These ones in general, especially about hating a certain character or not hating them is just not for me ig.
If anyone thinks mercy takes skill, they never played characters that actually require skill lmao.
@@helheimpanda Every hero takes some form of skill. That’s why there are some people who can climb with Mercy only to Top 500 & others who can’t. Of course skill can transfer over, so even if you’re a Top 500 Lucio main you COULD play Mercy- but you wouldn’t know her tech or movement nearly as much as a Mercy whose been through all that would. In which case, if you do a worse job than an enemy Mercy who does play her & you die more often because of it- then you’re putting your team at a disadvantage just because you have fundamentals down of the game but not complete knowledge of the character you’re playing.
Am I saying she’s the hardest & takes the most skill? No. Absolutely not. There’s a plethora of other hero’s that take more skill. But she still exhibits a form of skill that most find boring/uninteresting/uneventful or not impactful compared to others.
The thing is
They kept saying that rez is hard in comparison to bap or kiri but the thing is mercy has way to much movement on top of that
Yes she has to stop to rez but most mercy’s use cover and run away with a small hit box and one of the highest movement based kits
Bap is very diveable especially with more than 1 person with 1 forcing burst and 1 breaking imort because after that he has to escape
Kiris Suzu it’s self is strong but at least it’s a skill based skill you have to listen to the audio ques to activate an ability that only has a less than a second to use
Please dear God put me into this conversation. I would have a ball here and would easily call the biases.
They had such a calm discussion
the reason I hate rez is because, during a chaotic and fast paced fight, you can't just sit in one spot and never invest resources for ten seconds. But if you don't do that, everything invested to get that kill is just wasted because mercy pressed E.
So mercy mains just played the I am a women card
Masters Mercy main (atm), and support player 2500+hrs. Good points here and there from both sides, relatively decent discussions. Here's my opinion; Mercy is an easy character to *pick up* and get decent value out of, but has a high skill ceiling as positioning, ult tracking (mainly for dodging and valk management), several different techs (though they have become significantly easier with Mercy's mobility rework), and micromanagement can be infinitely improved upon and bring you to a next level as a Mercy player. Mercy is not hard to get initial value on, usually regardless of the player so long as they're not brand new to support or the game itself with no relative FPS experience, but obviously that does not mean it she is easy to excel at.
They make rez sound like it is so much more difficult to utilize than it actually is. As was stated, from Bronze - Plat (honestly I'd even be willing to say low-mid diamond in most scenarios) you can go for all the whacky and risky rezzes and usually successfully pull them off. Hell, even in low Masters, you'd be surprised..... But let's keep it between Bronze and low Diamond for now-- That's well over half the player base, as most players average between gold and diamond in Overwatch 2 (Gold was previously the overall average rank in Overwatch 1). Players struggle to deal with Mercy pulling off these rezzes in the majority of ranks (and just Mercy in general), where the majority of the player base resides.
To put it into perspective a little bit more, my friends and I have this friend, in Overwatch 1 she was
I like the idea that damage boost only makes things one-shot if you're in ultimate, but then theyd probably have to lower the time you can be in valk.
I've used lamp on my tank's corpse for mercy to resurrect. That shouldn't be a thing. It is not fair to the enemy team
The whole argument of “not every can pull off *insert part of kit*” or “it requires skill so it’s ok is the worst logic ever. Mobas, competitive fps etc don’t balance around “oh difficulty to play means something is allowed to be unbalanced or too strong”. That’s terrible logic to apply here. In dbd the nurse has been the strongest killer since the games inception and even through the nerfs. People use to argue “oh she’s difficult to play so its ok that she is the only killer to ignore the games entire design and mechanics”. It’s a bad argument in all honesty.
I think that comparison is somewhat bad. Most of the abilities in Ow are things that have counterplay. Even if unfun. If your getting headshot by a skilled player, you need to find better ways to position yourself. If mercy is getting rez and that annoys you, watch her, wait for rez and kill her when she's reviving her target.
The issue with the nurse is you as a survivor can barely interact with her, because she breaks the rules of the game itself. A good nurse will take out a whole lobby because the counterplay against her is almost non-existent since she can just go through any obstacle that'd separate you from her.
@@BlazeWolf9511yea the nurse was just an example towards going against gameplay mechanics and what not. Like the abilities they compared Rez too are all utility designed to prevent death where as mercy is designed to rewrite it so if you pocket someone they are harder to kill and when you do say kill them, she can rewrite that even if it’s only 5 times a match that’s still game changing and the other abilities you want to force out but mercy Rez you have to try and go in and prevent it depending on how likely it is which to me is not good for the game so to say but I’m leaning more on the argument of “this takes skill so it’s fair” which a lot of mobas and other games kinda realized should not be how balance works. Smite for example and other games that tried to use the “this character isn’t good at low ranks so it’s fine” type of argument
@@BlazeWolf9511but to your argument let’s say it’s defense Rialto and a pocketed Ashe has high ground and you get a very needed kill that would break a hold or choke, mercy can always just rez safe with los of the soul and behind the corner due to the distance you need to cover. The risk isn’t just on mercy it’s on not overextending and hoping the enemy doesn’t have resources to guarantee a rez. When one ability is that strong when you are winning a fight and it forces more resources from you to deal with on top of not being a “prevent death” but rather a “rewrite death” ability. That’s when it becomes an issue. At higher ranks they play natural cover, corners etc, low ranks riskier Rezes are more frequent. Immortality field cant exactly predict two dps bursting a squishy/dps using natural cover nor can life grip and even when they do, it either takes the teammate out of the frontline/fight like life grip or buys enough time. Are those abilities all dumb, yes. But one ability even if you get like 5 per 10 minutes, that’s an extra person you have to kill again.
bruh...your logic is the worst. why are you comparing a game with little to no ways of fighting back against your enemy, to a game where both teams have MANY ways of countering each other. let's take widow as an example, a great widow will not let you breathe without getting one shot, but if you don't go in her line of sight, or pick heroes that counter her you're fine.
Should change the title to "Mercy mains get angry and make excuses."
Damage boost and discord orb are highly unhealthy flat out. The ease of use for both with no cooldown is of course going ti be highly abused. On both ends Zen can heal at the same time and with Mercy's beam already attached to her pocket she can immediately start healing, which as proven by Amateratsu, is more potent in a fight.
Rez is an issue here, obviously, if it needs to be compared to another hero's ultimate to even make a case. With Suzu you can still dumb out enough damage to ensure the enemy are at least keeping some damage on then. The unvincibility window is short, while still being highly stupid and easy to use. Big difference here all three of those abilities are super easy to utilize and overcomes a ton of damage that took countless resources and effort to even jsut bypass all three supports basic healing methods. All three of then are really unhealthy.
"Mercy is the best support to use to be aware of your surroundings." Bro this says your hero is so lazy and relaxed in gameplay that you have room to do that when other supports have to juggle cooldowns with their triage and try to ping at the same time. A good example is Eskay one of thee best supports around. That woman's gamesense is like 4d chess and she does this on her main LUCIO who has to rely on toggling his auras, maintain mobility, staying aggressive, keeping close to allies, and managing far worst cooldowns on less heals then Mercy. With a clunky weapon while tied to only vertical surfaces. Any support can and should be doing that. That isn't a Mercy specific strength at all it shows more ease of use than anything.
And the Mercy mains blame "sexism"?! Excuse me, but men main Mercy too. Love how there's sexual segregation by the Mercys here. This "Fun for me only" mentality is so toxic.
Hi, i’m the bottom right reaper here! First of all i just wanted to say that being a part of this video was a great time and I had a lot of fun. I think the end part came out great and i’m glad that the debate got its own video because it got kind of messy as you can tell. I think the main points i’m seeing in these comments and in twitter replies are that people are upset that misogyny was brought up in general, and there are people from both sides that either do or do not believe in that take arguing about it.
First of all, I will partly take responsibility for this, as I shifted the topic away from the main one by asking a different question entirely. (though i felt we had hit a wall and were just repeating ourselves with the other one) Yeah it kinda sucks that we were put on the spot, and it definitely made it tough to respond without saying the wrong thing and becoming the villain of the overwatch community instantly, but i do feel that the topic needed to be addressed at some point because it is a major problem, especially with mercy.
As we kind of concluded in the video, there definitely is a significant portion of “mercy haters” that fall into the category of only doing it because they are misogynistic, but it is definitely not everyone, and i wouldn’t say it is even the majority, especially not among people who actually care about the game and want to see it in a positive state. Obviously i am speaking from a point of privilege here as i don’t personally get attacked for being a woman online, but i just don’t believe that it’s fair to draw a conclusion that misogyny -> mercy hate.
Other than that topic, I think this debate is rough, because as corny and dumb and loserish as it might sound, mercy hate is on a spectrum. I didn’t really get a chance to say this at all but I just genuinely dislike getting a mercy on my team as a main tank player. It doesn’t provide me any value whatsoever (yeah ik entitlement blah blah) and mercy is such an inconsistent hero because it relies nearly entirely on your team to be able to make plays for you. And even with rez and valk, you just have to hope your team can take advantage of your resources, rather than just being a net positive for everyone all the time on other heroes, ALONG with having your own personal play making ability. I won’t get too much into it, but that is essentially why i hate mercy players. There are just so many of them, mixed with the one-trick nature of the hero, and they make the tank experience (and their own for that matter) even more inconsistent in solo Q than it would be without them.
As for balance, I think inconsistent is also the word i would have used looking back on this debate. Sometimes damage boost is completely broken and the pocketed pharah is deleting everyone the whole game, and sometimes they die 21 times in 8 minutes with no kills and get rolled. Same with rez. Sometimes you can get a crazy rez in the middle of a team and it wins you a fight, and other times you look like an idiot and throw completely. And because all of this is wrapped up into a character that has a very low skill floor, and a lower skill ceiling than most of the other characters on the support roster, it becomes extremely unfun and frustrating to play with and against, because there is no consistency or way to feel like you have control over these situations. Its not like zen where I can always press Q when my team gets graved and save them, i have to hope that my mercy can pull x rez off and nobody shoots her, or hope that my sojourn gets a headshot with the damage boost and gets a pick. Its just up to luck at times for everyone involved, which is i think the unhealthiest thing for the game possible. Obviously i don’t want every game to play out the same way every time, the chaos is a massive part of why i love overwatch, and why the game works in the first place. But when a single character fundamentally turns the game into a dice roll it ruins the experience.
Thank you,
-Void
I dont understand how people are even beginning to compare suzu and rez, suzu is undeniably better but it also requires far more skill?? A suzu has to be aimed, the timing has to be precise and if you genuinely look at the outcome of a successful suzu and a successful rez you'll notice that its still super common for a fight to be lost despite suzu yet a fight can be won entirely due to rez.
Also as a genji main ( one trick they call it ) we get hella hate actually and i have been told by a lot of supports they ignore me cause I play genji
You can tell how uncomfortable the two tank mains are when the mercy players bring out the sexism card. Yes, misogyny exists - no, it is not a small problem.
But does that really need to be brought up like this? At this point it’s just a tactic to feel like you’re correct about everything while also being a victim.
It’s a video game. Talk about the game. Come on.
This was super interesting, although I wish it was a little more structured because they kind of ended up ranting about the same things for a good portion.
Anything in particular you’d like to see for future debates, as far as structure goes? I’m more than happy to hear any ideas you might have, and I’ll do my best to implement any positive changes 🫶🏻
@@ChristalRainemaybe structure it with a buzzer system, because at times they also were talking over eachother at times. It could be a good idea to focus in on the actual player who is speaking instead of the debate team as s a whole as well. Loved the video keep up the great work :)
it would be good if you could steer the conversation back to the main question when it gets of track, and state what conclusions the arguments came to and if everyone agrees whit it@@ChristalRaine
I like how a big part of their argument was literally doing the same thing, but literally every single other character has to do
On 1 side I get that it socks when ur dps suck for a game cuz ur pocket feels more useless, but 1 important thing that all mercy mains know and it's the real reason they play her, including me, and that's the fact that guardian angel is by far the most fun movement ability once u get good at it. Slingshoting back and forth dodging attacks and saving ur team is the most fun
Top 500 support main here. I love these conversations but i wish the mercy players didnt jump straight into the "men are sexist so they dont like mercy" mindset. I've got almost 3k hours on mercy and its not very fun holding onto a dps and letting them 1/2 tap everyone on the map/ Rezzing is fun when you can pull some nullshit off with it ngl. I agree that one tricking is bad in comp and should be bannable as its throwing the moment you get countered and refuse to swap. I'd rather try a different character than 1 trick mercy or any other hero into a lobby you dont belong in. Most mercy mains are afraid to admit it but they cant aim and so if they feel dps isnt high enough or that their dps suck they go moria. I normally think its GG if i see a mercy one trick on me team and swap to anna /kiri/bap to make up for basically a 4v5. That isnt to say Mercy is useless but if the enemy team is playing dive and mercy get insta deleted by sombra-tracer-Winton/Dva and refuse to swap its hard to cover for their mistakes. Great video I wish we can get some zen haters vs zen enjoyers or one tricks vs one trick haters next.
I really love how the Mario 64 Bowser song plays when people are debating in these videos. It's a perfect fit!
I’m not strictly against damage boost but I do agree is sucks for balancing because characters get balanced around having a mercy in the game. So they need a mercy in the game to be at their balanced state, which often isn’t the case.
I play support and Im running loads of illiari right now but my pool is illiari ana bap zen kiriko moira and then to a lesser extent I do Lucio and brig but only on situations where they’re needed, but with a mercy on the other team suddenly has a “dps diff” and I can’t outheal the speed of damage coming through and my team isn’t quite on that level to deal with it since I’m in plat. I put out a lot of damage too, usually on par with or above the DPS (I still put out a lot of healing too. I just used to play a lot of private games with masters and diamond players so the pace is different. I hate the way ranked works so I do like 15 games a season if that. Thats why I’m just in plat. I want the consistent gold gun points more than the rank) but support is so hard to out damage a dps gap because you have to shift your focus.
Just don’t like a character being “balanced” when a mercy is there because it makes them unbalanced and weak when the mercy is not there
Yes more mercy content for me to binge watch :3
Male Mercy main here. Yeah the sexism part is a big aspect of getting flammed though. I have comms off until someone has an issue (talking shit) and usually it's silence due to them thinking I'm a kawaii e-tart or something. Also I hate the argument of boost being unfair. The goal of being support is to negate the enemy teams progress. Love the vid. Sorry for the long comment and I'm subbed 🤘😁
Same dude, nobody ever wants to talk about it and they call mercy players sensitive… for me it’s typically being called homophobic slurs.
@@-NoNo. RIGHT!? But from what I've read from the many reddit forums and comments on UA-cam, Mercy players just want to be left alone. I'm that way. I want the bitching to stop because no matter what, people can feel like she's unfair but this game has no hard unfairness. A good player gets rolled sometimes like mid players in my opinion. Oh and fuck being a bot. I kill widows. 😌
People often call me e-girl and that I "pocket my bf" when I play Mercy and because of that I often have to text to them that I am the boy. After that,the whole shit-talk ends
@@lakisoo lmfao! I love this! 🤘😂
people don't have a problem with mercy they have a problem with people that play mercy, but they don't want to admit that. Therefore these mercy debates are always so pointless.
This is untrue tbh. Mercy is a terribly designed character for multiple reasons:
Dmg boost breaks damage threshholds, resulting in multiple nerfs to dps characters when the problem is damage boost
Mercy requires minimal skill for the amount of value you get out of the hero
Mercy movement is incredibly strong, resulting in a lot of moments where Mercy can feel near unkillable
Mercy pocket is extremely boring to play against.
Making a target feel as if they are nano'd while using decent positioning makes Mercy impossible to see, resulting in a buffed target while Mercy cannot be punished
Resurrect is incredibly unfair due to how the LOS checks work. You should have to maintain LOS of the soul for the entire resurrect duration
Yes these people are sexist and misogynistic XD (obvious joke)
@@adomicz by this logic you should nerf most other supports to the ground too
@-NoNo. There not that op compared to mercy
@@-NoNo. No other support has a resurrect ability. No other support can stand still, not aim, and not use their brain like Mercy can. There are actual Masters/GM mercy players who will stand still because they know they don't have to do anything and they will still capitalize on their value.
It is true that all supports can "pocket", but not with the same dependency that Mercy has due to her mobility which focuses around her teammates.
Mercy also does not miss her healshots. She is a consistent 55 hps without any room for error.
She cannot be dived as easily as other supports due to her 1.5sec/2.5sec cooldown on GA.
Mercy is an amplifier if the person you pocket is bad they will still be bad but if they are good you will make them unstoppable. Played against a guy who used a trigger bot with wall hacks, the dude himself was ass you could still win a 1v1 but he had a constant mercy pocket making him unkillable.
I don't mind the damage boost but the constant healing it's like you're fighting something with overhealth.
@14:40 I feel like the reapers are giving that “bombastic side eye” on discord
cringed so hard at this statement here 9:17 rez is not hard. all you need is common sense
I don’t think people are mad at damage boost or rez bc of the ability’s it’s the fact that we make other characters unplayable with nerds instead of nerfing the actual problem and same with rez I doubt ppl would hate it if it was actually balanced and made it so you can rez behind walls
I'm not a mercy player but I always find it hard to believe that merct haters actually want to play the more punishing game their arguments imply would be ideal for overwatch. And while the two in the atgument might not be sexist the fact that mercy is the topic is based on our culture of mysogony. Kiri and bapt are both way more problematic and their immortalitues are both on lower cds than res, which locks mercy into an animation while bap and kiri can more or less do whatever they want while also making someone untouchable.
This was really interesting to listen to. I do think both sides had compelling arguments, but I was slightly upset the misogyny card was played, because while it is a HUGE issue in this community and needs to be addressed, it completely derailed the argument (literally watching the reapers stumble over their words cause the Mercy essentially put them in an argument minefield was painful) and wasn't really applicable here.
It really showed the issue with the Mercy playerbase, Mercy isn't a perfectly crafted character, she's a great beginner character but she does have Flaws, and there are many arguments for rez and damage boost being harmful Abilities (though I don't believe the reaper's portrayed those arguments very good) so ignoring these arguments and conflating a majority of this criticism as sexism is just bad faith arguing. If you work under this logic for everything, then no dialogue can ever be had because the criticism can always be conflated as bigotry. I also Disliked the argument that no one receives hate like Mercy's do - this just isn't true, in fact one of the Mercys bring up Genji as an example, which is just absurd to me because for like the first year or 2 of OW1's lifespan, Genji mains were clowned on with the memes about Genji's crying for healing or going in solo, dying and complaining, even I was guilty of rolling my eyes when someone chose Genji, the Reapers also brought up the Baptiste hate which is pretty valid. Other characters have or still do receive hate, the reason why Mercy receives seemingly more hate is because she's had her issues for much longer and they are more impactful on a flow of a game. Finally, the one-trick argument seemed super bad faith and manipulative on the Mercy's end, at one point one of the Mercys either purposely or unintentionally perceive a Reaper's argument that one tricks are bad as him hating people liking to play a character, which is an obviously incorrect interpretation of this argument (which makes me believe this was purposeful). The Mercys also just seem to hand-wave the reaper's criticism of one tricking by saying "Would you rather she play a character she can't play well", no, he would rather you learn more than one character so you can swap. You aren't forced to only learn and play the first character you select in your lifespan in the game. One tricks are inherently bad for the game, simply because the game is based around swapping to counter your enemy, it doesn't matter how skilled you are in your one trick, there will be scenarios where they simply don't work, and your inability to play more than one character costs other players the game.
I do want to give the Mercy's their credit though, they had a much stronger mechanical argument, their point about characters using an equal amount of resources to counter an opponent was very well explained. Furthermore, it was very clear that the Reapers had poor understanding of Mercy's playstyle and got rather rude during that part of the argument (specifically when they just parroted "no." "no." "no." While mercy was trying to argue about enjoying the character) and when the Mercy's criticised them for not understanding how to play Mercy, they got super defensive and made it clear she was right. The Reaper's point about forgiving mistakes is also quite flawed, every support has a free mistake forgive, including your supports, just like how the enemy mercy can rez their Winston who made a mistake, YOUR lifeweaver can lifegrip you from danger when you make a bad charge on Rein, you both have supports and therefore both have free mistake forgiveness.
Yeah, I really enjoyed watching this, I was arguing at my TV the entire way through 😅 which is a great sign that the debate was engaging. To clarify, I'm a support main myself (specifically Zenyatta and Lifeweaver) and I'm completely with the cause that support mains get way too much hate, but I also can't deny that Mercy players have become super entitled and unenjoyable to speak to (specifically on twitter and discord, in game most mercy mains I interact with are lovely). tl;dr Mercy mains won the mechanics argument by having a better understanding of the character, but lost the social argument by being oddly manipulative and bad faith when arguing.
To be fair, the reapers were the ones that brought that on themselves. They did ask why people hate mercy so much and the mercy players responded with a big contributing factor of mercy hate. I just want to give you props on how thought out and well written this comment is
@@-NoNo.Thank you so much, your comment was actually what spurred me into giving my two sense on the matter. I definitely understand why the Mercy's brought the misogyny aspect up to the Reapers, it's undeniably a massive issue, to the point id argue that up to 20% of the hate Mercy players receive is motivated by sexism (which really shows how far the community has fallen) however personally I never felt that the Mercy's gave the criticism a fair shot. Naturally they are biased, but I think you should always try to keep an open mind
@@oja9483 I’m flattered, also this community has always been like this. It’s not a recent development. I think back to that clip of xqc (one of the biggest streamers ever) openly cussed out a female mercy player and called her a boosted egirl (among many other things) with the rest of the team cheering him on while the mercy player was audibly in tears because of the things he was saying about her. It’s disgusting and he sent that message to thousands of young viewers
Yeah, I agree. If the sexism argument wasn't brought up it would have been a better discussion overall.
@@-NoNo. I used to dislike him for no real reason. Now you gave me one... poor girl :'(((
I love the fact that they say the sexism thing on Mercy and that people expect a Mercy to be bad or to be a girl. When I've heard so many times people say similar things on other supports, and it's even worse. I literally had games where people throw because the other support or I play a Moira, Lucio, or Zen. When they see these heroes, they expect they are garbage and throwing. And when a player is playing Mercy the majority that I have encountered in NA servers are male. The coincidence of a female playing Mercy during any game of QP, Comp, Arcade and even Custom is rarely seen at least in my games.
Well as female mercy main i can tell you that most of us dont like using mic for lot of valid reasons
Don’t think of it as ‘most are male’, think about how many Mercy mains you encounter that aren’t in voice.
Frankly I seriously doubt anyone knowingly encounters that many mercy mains. So many keep their profiles hidden.
@@truckerdave8465exactly
Personally I don't blame anyone for one-tricking. That's a psychology problem that OW1 didn't account for, and OW2 *tried* to address that problem, but ultimately didn't do enough.
Judging how inconsistent the devs have been about this philosophy, I don't even know if they even want to actually fix this. ;/
Can you also Include some male Mercy mains? We also exist lol (no offense, just a suggestion/wish)
Y’all gotta sign up!! Would be happy to have some male mercy mains in a future episode. But I get mostly women at the moment who sign up.
@@ChristalRaine ah alright :) ty
As a mercy main with a peak of 3652 (aka masters 3-4ish) and currently masters 4. To address the main issues:
1. Mercy’s movement is her skill expression and her only real self sustain because she can’t heal herself so she has to move around to stay alive since shes commonly focused.
2. Mercy’s dmg boost is her real/main utility. unlike characters like kiri, ana, and bap they can heal AND dps at the same time, mercy’s main point is being able to dmg boost/heal and she can only do ONE at a time while also not being able to do damage herself so dmg boost makes up for it.
3. Mercy rez is situational and needs to be able to move out of LOS or she could never get a rez of seeing as it can already be a struggle. Rez’ing also comes with multiple cons such as not being able to heal/dmg boost, shes stuck in place leaving herself vulnerable, and its long CD along side its rare opportunities in actual fights.
Overall, the whole point of supports is to have agency in team fights and have big effects. Ana nade, kiri suzu, bap immortality, etc. Thats the point of a support, to SUPPORT the team through external means and not outright dps. Wherever you stand, you have to admit every role has a broken character, rammatra, orisa, widow/ashe/hanzo, and ana/bap/kiri/ and mercy depending on where you stand. rather than focus and solo out one character, the dev team and community should look at all the characters as a whole.
Everyone saying the Mercy is hate is based on on women playing but I don’t think this is true. Dva is a also representation of the women gaming community and she doesn’t get nearly as much hate as mercy does. Because Dva is not a cornball character she actually needs to make plays, it has nothing to do with about who’s specifically playing .
Feel like the mistake fixing is not the problem . The main problem is having characters surpass their base dmg to the point of breaking the game . Discord , sombra new hack debuff and mercy boost is the problem here . I’ll admit immortality effects do break the flow of death but that depends on how bad or good the healers are while mercy boost & orb don’t take really any skill to it except skill in survival & Decision making . Bottom line mercy hate is unwarranted but boost & discord orb just make it impossible to have a balanced ability without the possibly of one shots .
That is a good point they made about damage boosting/discord abilities and damage breakpoints, but I think if they get rid of damage boost, then discord also needs to go. For my elo, zen discord is a much bigger problem than Mercy. I also agree that rez is very unfun to play against, especially on certain sniper maps. Circuit Royale feels like you pretty much have to go mercy/sniper to win, especially if the other team is also doing that. It's like dps doom from ow1; it's not fun to play against or with for anyone but the person playing the hero. They need to give her other abilities to replace the oppressive ones, though.
These be the same men that get upset when a mercy don’t pocket them 😭
I’m a little late, but I agreed with the reaper duo the most when they brought up the fact that there are other heroes you can play that do what Mercy does, but they can do it better (time is @ 10:20). The Mercy’s just deflected the next comment or incoming thought by saying “playstyle choice”.
If I was one of those reapers I would’ve shut down that argument with “and you guys probably still choose mercy because you either can’t aim or don’t want to choose a better character that has to aim”.
Mercy is extremely easy to play. I went unranked to high masters just playing mercy to test the waters. Hell, even on my main account when I play mostly Ana/Bap, but wanna be relaxed/chill/lazy I’ll auto lock Mercy. Even if another mercy main and her duo ask me to swap (before the game even starts) I tell them “No, I wanna relax this game and play someone easy”. These people on the reaper characters were being far too kind in this video lol. They didn’t wanna tell the hard truth how it is. 😅
Bringing in the sexism card too was such a low blow and completely derailed the whole topic of the video. Either should’ve been CUT OUT of the video or been made into a separate video as a separate topic.
Comment Add in: (I am also a female gamer). I clicked off the video as soon as she “wrapped it back around to sexism” before the 18:00 mark. Listening to them talk about that + Valorant just made listening to them an intolerable experience. Completely just went off topic. You can tell how awkward the reapers felt bc this is 9/10 the excuse Mercy one tricks fall back on when they’re visibly losing an argument.
Opinion of a veteran gamer. I've been gaming a long arse time. Gaming mechanics, in general, have many consistent technical and principle familiarities.
OW is not complex to figure out tactically.
- DPS scores the goals (Gets the Kills)
- Tanks control the midfield (Dominates the space of play)
- Support controls the defence (Reduces player death rate while initiating the first stages of offensive play. )
Note: While many will argue against this point of support initiating offensive play, the simple truth is your support sees more of play than any other role, has the best positional sense, and should dictate the lines of play. Simply put. Go where your support goes, because any team that extends too far beyond its its support, is a player likely to have higher rates of death, and an old arse unwritten pvp principle number is: "A dead player deals no damage."
Rarely does this happen tho as DPS and Tanks tend to initiate themselves as the decision makers.
On Mercy. Her skillsets excel as a purely defensive lynchpin more than any other hero, while the other technical support offers more utilitarian skills. Mercy's abilities, from healing behind walls, movement in skies, and revives, are primarily defensive and her dmg boost is the only offensive base skill she has and is not beneficial unless the Tank is on form, dictating the area in play so that the boost can be supplied to offensive pushes.
Valkryie Ult in the hands of a good mercy is excellent for final pushes against entrenched last line group defences.
Long story short. If Mercy offers little value compared to other supports, then there is no reason to complain about the value Mercy does bring. I.E Revives, Healing and Boosts.
Ok, but can we have more variety and bring some male mercy mains?
Like is mercy the equivalent of Barbie in OW or what's the deal?
what..?
thr majority of mercy players are girls, so its not a surprise to see two girls representing mercy in this video
@@fernando5230 And then the conversation diverted into an useless "male vs female" argument for no reason. Wouldn't have happened with 4 girls or 4 guys discussion
I feel like all these people confuse the word "unhealthy" with "annoying"
as an ex-mercy main, i agree that mercy one-tricks who refuse to learn secondary/tertiary supports are really toxic but i'd argue you could say that about any one-trick. however, while mercy requires skill and game sense to play effectively, the skill floor to be decent at her is way lower than other supports. for example, other supports are able to consistently dps and heal when it's more effective for mercy to right click blue beam and zip around or stay out of sight. she's the supp i play when i'm on my last braincell after work or to learn new maps. also, the guy discrediting misogyny being an issue and then being like "idc if you're black, asian, green" lost me entirely with that nonsense. stay in your lane and don't mention racism, especially if you have to equate bipoc with something that doesn't exist. that shit is literally dehumanizing and diminishes our experiences.
i'd rother play with a really good moria and lucio player then have me being every mercy player's punching bag whenever something goes wrong.
one tricking mercy kills the game imo
Sojourn was nerfed because of damage boost and now nobody plays Sojourn any more 😂
Mercy rez should be an ult not an ability. Mercy movement should be brought back to the fun speedy mercy movement. And damage boost should have a cooldown like moira healing.
Mercy rez is not hard. If your teammates play corners you can just hide behind a wall and get EVERY rez.
The last argument could have been summed up saved 6 minutes and avoided going off topic if they had just said “that Mercy isn’t an all purpose hero like say Kiriko. Even if they can’t play Kiriko for max potential, her all purpose kit provides more value than max potential Mercy in the same situation. Mercy can’t fit into every single comp that an Ana or Kiriko can, regardless of mastery of said hero.”
(´･ᴗ･ ` ) honestly just a simple solid 15% discord on tanks 25% everyone else 20% dmg boost then ignore sym, mei, reaper, sombra and tank players will be happy💖
I feel like the dps players here just don't like support heros in general, besides Lucio brig.
Pretty much. It's an Attackers (DPS) vs Defenders (Support) issue.
Attackers do not like to play against a Defence that can actually compete and stop them. They want weakened enemies and easy kills.
@@TwistedwithPower yeah, like they are all against mercy, and Ana, and Baptiste, and Kiriko, until they are the ones getting benefitted. Then it's fine. Like the one guy even said "I'm fine till we are losing, then I look for the problem" and to me that just says "as soon as I meet the first sign of adversity I'm finding someone to blame and it's mercy, or me, and it ain't me. So the mercy must be the problem"
One of the Mercys made a great point. Mercy can't always go for a res because it's not always safe to. Bap, Kiri, usually don't need to worry about whether or not it's safe enough for lamp, suzu, or pull. It's a quick one button instant ability that can be done from afar
This people are the most biased people can we have a little less people that biased like sexism should not be a talking point about how your character is harder
Because the majority of the player base is sexist
I should do a Roadhog version of this since a lot of people hate him too😭
The only problem i have with mercy is she makes pharah unkillable along with a couple others while also making heros like echo and pharah need to be built worse at base because they benefit so much from mercy, im an echo main and i barely get pocketed by mercy, idk what it is but ive climbed to masters and peeked gm once since i started playing echo back in ow1 when she was realsed and i always hear that mercy like pocketing me but it happens like once every 5to 10 games maybe, so its not worth it for me to be nerfed overall for the chance at getting a mercy that knows just hard pocketing me is the best route to winning for them.
But i had an idea for mercy and maybe even all healing in ow, and thats to make shield hp effected less by mercys heals or just heals in general, and then the devs now have a new tool to control who gets heals.
Imagine how much easier balancing orisa and pharah would be, give orisa shield hp so shes abit more self sufficient but now double pocketing her is less effective then double pocketing say rein. Or pharah with a 50/50 split on hp and shield hp, is now actually not worth pocketing but pharah now has self sustain and now we can maybe balance mercy abit better as well.
Which i also think this could be a cool idea for dmg boost but give the player receiving the dmg boost agency over shooting it by making them change mercies beam when they shoot and now the player controls when they get dmg boost and now you can nerf it so its maybe 10% and when the dmg amp applies it nerfs the healing in half if not more so the player now cant shoot while being lifelined on heals, and they also wont have a massive dmg boost on one shot abilities but this ofc would help fast firing heros like soldier but again if theyre shooting they arent gaining much heals, but this one is abit iffy and maybe needs some tweaks to fit in better, but the first idea with the shield hp would be a great addition i think, and could be applied to all heals and a variety of different heros to better balance healing in the game and if heals are more managed, then maybe supports can focus more on dmg and utlity like they should and then support might be more fun for lower ranks which will solve this problem where supports need to be giga buffed dps just for low rank players to enjoy it. Because rn supports in lower ranks play like heal bots because their dps and tanks make to many mistakes for them to actually play the game but if there were more dps that didnt benefit from heals yet had more self sustain, it would encurage teams to not rely so heavily on their supports.
Paladins has something similar where caut makes heals not very effective late game and most heros can build self sustain into their kits but ofc this is abit excesive as heals go from op to non existant in that game but support isnt nearly as hated over there because theres alot less pressure on the class to heal its teams.
Or just kill the mercy first
@@ruthortega6192 yep just kill mercy, wish we all thought of that 7 or so years ago when pharmercy first started causing people troubles 😂 shes totally not the most hot button topic that even top 500 agree is broken and unbalanced for 5v5, she was bad enough in 6v6 but now I see even top 500 players just throw their hands up when facing her and with one shots being nerfed, now you cant even pick widow into her and just 1 shot them unless they get close and in masters every pharah knows that effective range now so the odds of killing either fast enough over an over again without help from your team is much much more unlikely then killing anything else in the game and not all of us can consistently hit heads as hanzo so can you please politely explain how one reliably puts down a mercy now that widows range is garbage?
Also the pharah is usually easier to kill in my experience then the mercy so your advice is kinda flawed as well, since at least the pharah has a bigger hitbox and moves much more predictably while mercies in my lobbies are moving like actual fighter jets pulling off crazy u-turns with a smaller hitbox and she heals herself as she heals others so she heals herself just as much as she heals pharah so while that was an optimal choice in ow1, in ow2 after mercies changes I wouldn't say that's the most optimal choice since I typically beat pharmercy as echo by sticking some crazy mid air combo and blowing her up faster then the mercy can heal her but it's still not easy at all, especially if the enemy has a hitscan or something suppressing me while my supports went moira lucio or something 😂
@@ruthortega6192 plus this isnt just about pharmercy, its about healing in general, idk how my idea could possibly offend anyone, as it benefits everyone as supports wont be required to heal bot in lower ranks, which is undeniably why support never gets queued for, it's not verity like the devs think since dps may have a larger pool of heros, less of those heros are viable then support, every support is almost always viable while typically theres only a hand full of viable dps so adding more supports will never solve the problem of lower ranks hating the playstyle of support since it's literally heal bot simulator, and then it benefits dps as theyll have more agency over their own healing rather then having those moments where you're to far away from med packs at 1 hp while your supports straight up ignore you, and then this will also allow for more verity amongst supports since half their kit wont need to be dedicated to healing, now we can more so focus on the utility and dmg side of supports but please poke holes in my idea, constructive criticism is always great, as long as its constructive lol
And as an echo main I'm fully aware this will nerf those games where I also pop off due to a mercy pocket as few and far between as they can be, I do know its not fun for my enemies when you give me a mercy pocket, I just absolutely squash teams single handedly when I get that mercy pocket 😂
@@jasonmension3979 I am a support main in lower ranks and while there are some games I do end up having to heal bot (lower ranks don't know how to avoid damage), it doesn't happen often as I try not to follow stupid. I prefer Mercy, but do swap off to Moira, Ana, Bap and Brig depending on what's happening in the game. In lower ranks, I find it difficult to find a dps that is worth hard pocketing. Most of the time pharah and echo only get me killed while missing every shot they fire. I've also been headshot plenty of times without a Mercy pocket involved so I don't know what DPS is complaining about. I guess that is just the difference in gameplay between the ranks. As far as rarely getting a Mercy pocket, they don't know you...they don't know how you play...If you want a consistent Mercy pocket, befriend a Mercy main and queue with them. Pocketing an Echo or Pharah isn't exactly easy as we are not mind readers and don't know what your plan is so most of the time it's just not worth the risk. As far as supports that straight up ignore you, a good support will prioritize their life over yours. If we can't heal you without exposing ourselves or we're currently trying to get away from the enemy, we aren't going to heal you. If a support doesn't have healing, then they're just another DPS so is you're idea to completely eliminate the role of support?
@@ruthortega6192 exactly we agree, you dont wanna feel pressured to heal echos and pharahs and I dont want mercies pocketing me for heals but if her primary reason for existing is dmg boosting then she would provide alot of value still to a team without needing to just heal so mercy will still be great for a team but she wouldn't be making dps immortal in your spawn killing you and taking offangles you cant pressure them from.
She would still be able to heal and dps boost her teammates nearby and that's why heros like mcree and them would have more actual hp still so you can keep them safe in the positions they take, this just would most likely be targeted at the heros that have crazy movement and get heals so they become impossible to reliably kill because if you cant nuke them they just heal up instantly and these heros are meant to not be hit often so having to kill one without letting them have a second break is abit rough.
For the first argument saying that people should get punished for their mistakes. It’s just really funny they are saying that when they are on Reaper.
Reaper, Mei, Tracer, Zaria, and to an extent even Ram, Queen, Hog, Torb and Sym all have things where if they mess up then they can get out of there! So I feel like it’s not crazy that a SUPPORT has something to get their teammates out of a situation. Not to mention for most supports these get out of jail free stuff only works on teammates, so why are the people who are receiving this blessing also the ones who are complaining?
Quite literally if a Reaper dives in, fails to get a kill, and then wraiths out people think it’s fine. But if a Reaper dives in, fails to get the kill, but then have a Lifeweaver pull them out, then it’s too much for the game? The same thing goes for rez, Mercy has to GO IN to pull it off and leave herself vulnerable, Kiriko needs to tp in and suzu which leaves her vulnerable, Bap needs to get either a good angle or close enough to throw immortality which then leaves him more vulnerable. So where is any of this bad? The only one who can possibly consistently stay safe with their get out of jail free ability is LW and Bap, but then after they pull that off too much- guess who’s getting targeted for the rest of the game!
I asked the contestants to play Reaper just to symbolize the Mercy Hater Side. I believe they’re both Tank players.
@@ChristalRaineI guessed that but I also edited my reply if you want to re-read it, I left stuff out that I wanted to say. Sorry about that
I think damage boost is only an issue on a few select hero's and those could be resolved by capping the max (for single damage boost), my beef is that tank can be rezzed to full health with the same animation time. Either rez at lower health or increase rez timer for tanks. I'd also be open to adjusting rez so that hp upon rez is proportional to animation duration. This would also give them the option to do faster rez for characters that died behind cover and can just be healed
All this explains is that people are exhausting and disagreeing doesnt do anything. Explaining doesnt work with people who are biased, just carrying on with you life
basically tf2 medic but braindead
bruh if you don't like immortalities, rez, dmg amps, etc then don't play overwatch?? go play call of duty or cs or smth.. These things have been in the game for ages and they're not going away lol it's just a very natural part of the game's more moba-like features damn. Also i can't understand how so many overwatch players think that they are entitled to definining other people's experience of the game by thinking they have to switch. "This game requires switching characters" said who? these dudes tryna make a whole government on how to play a game. When I'm in ranked I know the only thing i can control is MY gameplay, so if i want to win a game and i see that i have to switch to give my team a fighting chance i will, but i never expect anyone to do so, that's their business not mine. Which is why i find it ridiculous that ppl keep track of counters during matches and go on chat to tell someone to switch as if we're here to service them? I don't expect a tank or dps to switch when they are being hard countered and feeding, just like i don't expect my other support to switch to help counter something, i may want it and hope for it but i am not entitled to it. Maybe they can't play anything else, or maybe they're a cracked streamer who can play most characters better than you but is on a hammond marathon or mood. You literally don't know and either way your whining isn't going to change anything but get morale low. You get my point? Not. Your. Business. All you can expect someone to do in a game is what they queued up for: playing, and if it is competitive, trying to win, period. And these selfish ass players make their wants and opinions out to be universal truths that they then base demands and complaints off of, please... the entitlementtt. This is why ppl barely speak in rlly high ranks unless they're stacking, they played long enough to learn to mind their own business lmao
nothing inherently wrong with mercy it’s just sexism? cmon man they were talking about how majority of supports will watch ult economy and it’s easy to do that while sitting back blue beaming an Ashe
It's literally sexism are you dumb
This entire episode was both very informative and a huge waste of time, how is that possible?
Why do you wanna play mercy? Because I want to be a pretty pretty princess with wings. And yes I do tricks. Ahhh 😛
Uh oh
I’m sorry saying sexism makes your opinion invalid that’s like slandering a black character in a game and people say you slander because you’re racist
The second sexism or misogyny is brought up I'm checking out of the conversation. I want to have a discussion about the health of a hero in the game. They bring up the treatment of women in gaming and that's an entirely different discussion that's not signed up for and it's just an easy fall back excuse on the argument at hand in regards to mercy once they run out of counterpoints that will silence their opposition. It's so frustrating.
Nah these (probably) dps mains got it worng. They said a few years ago, Bap was the one hated. Yeah, BUT Mercy was hated even BEFORE BAP EXCISTED.
Also these people don't want supports, they want "healers", because what they've mentioned are all team supporting abilities. 🙄🙄 So according to them, we should get rid of every supporting ability and just keep their healing 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Those reapers only want heal bots in the game
you have to be illiterate or willfully ignorant
just stop buffing the dps for no reason then y’all won’t have a problem with mercy ✋🏽🙄 now give me my 1.5 GA cooldown back now
It seems like the reapers mainly have an issue with supports in general having immortality-like abilities and not JUST Mercy. They just want heal bots and that is NOT what being a support is about!
If the whole issue with damage boost is that it creates one shots that wouldn't have existed if she wasn't in the game, why not just make her damage boost have a cap, say, 175 damage in one shot, instead of trying to balance every damage number on every hero that Mercy pockets. So if X hero would've done 180 damage in one shot without being boosted, the +25% could be either removed or lowered to 10-15%. Now for rez, I, personally, would make it so it does require LOS for the duration of the cast, but give Mercy a little more movement speed, so she can at least try to dodge enemy damage, and make the valid rez sphere smaller. I believe that would make the stupid "middle of the enemy team" rezzes less prevalent in lower ranks, and would make a risky rez more of a team effort at higher ranks. And, finally, I would make her healing so that, if someone receives constant damage for more than 2 seconds, you can't heal them back up unless they don't take damage for 0.5-1 second. It IS dumb that a Winston literally cannot kill someone with a Mercy pocket, and I also think it could make Pharmercys just a little less dangerous across the board.
Ok seriously. Next time, both parties should be the same gender. It started to spoil when they argue about their gender. Is tiresome.
Yeah but you can't lie that part of the reason that people hate Mercy players is because it's a character which is overwhwlmingly played by women (and lgbt people seemingly lol, but that's another topic). People don't just call Mercy players briandead or idiots because of the hero, but because of who the person playing the hero is.
Reaper is an extremely simple and easy character to play, but since your typical Reaper player are edgy guys, the stigma is not the same
its because reaper mafia doesnt exist, so no one hates them@@randomsheep1165
@@randomsheep1165 Yeah, but that's a tiresome point. Let's talk about the character and not to a demographic.
I want to know what people think on the technical point not the social aspect. But since the parties were of different gender they couldn't resist divert the point.
@jbejam2308 they did talk about the character related issues regarding Mercy. However two female players are obviously going to mention the fact that players that are often mainly played by women do receive more stigma, because of the people who play it. It's a bit naïve to have a discussion on why there's such a divisive view on Mercy in the community without mentioning such an obvious point.
Edit:
And gender isn't even the only factor. Male Mercy mains on voice channel (I have experienced this) are often referred to as f4gs or other homophobic insults. The hatred lots of people have for Mercy is not even because of her, but the fact that they're triggerred by the people playing the character
Wish i was in that Discussion ^^
Personnally was very dissapointed mui totally shifted the discussion from why mercy is unhealthy to a sexism and support issue in general and possibly taking it at heart level like she was being attacked or something i personnally didn't side with the mercy side of things and any outsider would just be confused on this discussion, as the talking points were unrelated to the topics at hands, they mostly discuss other topics at hand and derail the situation, i do hope you make another one and one that doesn't derail, as one player simply wasn't on the headspace or wasn't ready for this discussion. Im just very glad it didn't got ugly and was ammended so cheerios.
personally very disappointed that women have to experience sexism for playing a specific character or role. it might not be an important conversation for YOU, but most of the hate mercy players receive is because of sexism and not simply bc they think shes overpowered. despite the fact that the 5% dmg boost nerf didn't really affect any of her usual synergies, she is now being referred to as the worst support in the game by EVERYONE. how could such a small change take her from overpowered to useless? bc she wasnt broken to begin with. ppl arent and were never mad that mercy was "too strong" they just hate women.
@@mespie So basically every kind of criticism against mercy is just sexism? That's basically what you're saying
I think the conversation shifted because of the questions that the dps players asked. They asked the mercy players “why do you think people hate mercy” and the mercy players properly responded. And the talk of other supports was warranted and necessary for the overall discussion of “why does mercy get so much hate when other supports are better, do more damage, and have easier get out of jail free cards”. The answer to that question is at least in part due to what the mercy players discussed. I’m not even a woman and I get called homophobic slurs just for picking her and comming in the voice chat, I can only imagine what it’s like for women. It became a discussion of biases found within the overwatch community and I think that’s valid because most mercy hate is personal bias and not rooted in cohesive thoughts.
@@Lukinhas752 they never said anything like that
@@Lukinhas752that’s not at all what they said. It’s not even close and you would know that if you actually listened to what they had to say
if mercy has no value why do they want all her abilites nerfed ?
skill issue on there side 😭 supports need those abilities. you can't balance something or change something completely like rez because people are just bad at the game and don't know how to shut down a mercy res just get better there's so much cc that can literally just shut down a 30 second cooldown that can most of the time literally kill that mercy and now they're losing a lost fight even more because she tried to bring back that teammate
Old Orisa was super fun, people who dont say that are wrong and didnt understand the Beauty of a good orisa
(was top50 Orisa EU)
Being good at a boring hero doesn't make the hero fun
@@HOSShadow Hitting perfect Pulls to confirm kills/get big pulls of the Map was really fun ;)
I’m new to Overwatch so idk how much my opinion would matter and maybe it’s ADHD or something but I feel like Mercy is just too hard for me. There’s so much going on on the screen I just can’t keep up 😭
Edit: I also kinda feel like if u agree there’s misogyny in gaming why is it so hard to admit that most people hate on Mercy because of misogyny? Like there are valid reasons to not like the character that have nothing to do with bigotry but come on…
All characters required game sense. But Mercy doesn't require any mechanical skill, something that at least on PC you need to train constantly to be competitive; hence why people think she is easy to play (which true).
There is no character easier to play than Mercy and their mains are at the bottom of the barrel in skill. I think Mercy mains deserve all the criticism they are receiving.
Literally shut up
Why is it always Mercy’s fault? Mercy is usually always the scapegoat when it comes to team comps and diffs.
Wtf? This is supposed to be a discussion about Mercy balance, and that person is unironically crying, "but muh wamenz its sexism!"? Ffs. Mercy mafia stfu. I like and play Mercy, but every time I hear the weapons-grade copium coming from the mafia, I wish that blizz would come in and nerf Mercy into oblivion just to get it over with.
Damn this is a passionate comment
‘All these other heroes do the exact same thing but better’
Ok. So what’s your issue with Mercy then? Just admit the issue is because she’s thought of as someone that women play and we can all move on.
Lmfao what
ability based game.. cries about abilities being used. UA-cam video summarized.
❤
The fact that those mercy mains can't comprehend that their hero isn't fun for most ppl is insane
The fact that y’all can’t comprehend that nobody cares lol, “oh the hero isn’t fun for other people boo hoo” that’s an opinion, and cope dude nothings gonna change
@@therainbowcat5342 Dude. They said they don't like mercy and instead of them just understanding mercy isn't fun for them. They start saying that they didn't play her correctly
nah the guy with the stutter is odd, bringing up race LOLLL and mentioning like colours in the rainbow weirdooo
whole lotta yapping on the mercy hater side 🗣️‼️
Idc about the stinky men who hate mercy players. The men on this debate are dumb lol
The mercy’s ate that 😂❤
No. They didnt.
One thing I will say about the switching is that sometimes it's a bad idea because she's the main healer. If Zen stays Zen healing will fall off.