What You Need to Know Before Buying The Polk R200!
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Is this a new? I wonder if they changed this since it was first released. I just looked at my old measurements and I don't see that obvious 1khz bump. Also, mine have good deep bass extension. I compared them back to back with the Encore B6 bookshelf and these played lower. Weird how different our findings are. I might remeasure them later. I still have them. I'll send to your in our group chat.
AFAIK nothing has changed. These were BNIB when I received them but broken in just because.
That's a good point, my findings too. Did something change?
When I owned them, there was in fact too much bass and REW showed that as well. Treble was in all cases not peaking, more the opposite. For reference, used them in a large room and well away from walls.
I had a hard time positioning them correct to not 'overflow' the mids by bass. However, I've been reading such mixed experiences that I wonder if the batches, electronics, etc, changed somewhere in between.
@ErinsAudioCorner If you are curious, I have a pair of R200s that I bought a year ago. I am located in Talladega county AL, so I would be willing to let you measure my pair.
I was just commenting that my experience was different as well. Too much bass and rolled off around 10k. I still pulled down around 1k and 6k but only cause I prefer that...I didn't have any peaks other than in the bass area. But I bought a pair of R700 recently and I'm having low bass issues with them while others tell me it's their strong point.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I don’t know about these days, but I had some talks from decades ago and I could tell you for a fact that back then they were playing games, changing the designs all the time but I don’t think it’s the same company now
I have the R500s. I really enjoy them, bass is good for 5 1/4 inch woofers. You do have to toe them in if you want more detail and keep them out from the wall if you want to tighten up the bass. They are more forgiving of poor recordings than my Emotiva T2+ that recently arrived.
I have a demo pair of R200 that I bought from the hifi- store half a year ago and I have compared them with the same power amplifiers (SMSL AO200, Audiophonics HPA-S25ONC) to my Elac DBR62 and DB52 2.0 speakers. The DB5.2 is bright, as Erin's measurements showed, and the DBR62 has a mid-bass boost and a slightly wider soundstage. I liked the R200 the most, followed by the DBR62. I listened to all of them in a softly acousted bedroom (4m X 4m X 3m) so that they were 1.5 m from the rear wall and 2 m from the side walls. To me, the R200 sounded the most balanced of those speakers (5-10 degrees out the listening axis without grills). The DBR62 had a clear mid-upper bass boost, where I occasionally heard a strange resonance sound. The DB52 2.0 had a rather thin bass and clearly brighter sound than the others.
I have these speakers; they’re pretty great for my use case and environment, but of course it’s also because I am using a dedicated subwoofer and room EQ setup, which pretty much alleviates a lot of the issues mentioned. Don’t really plan on selling these speakers anytime soon, but this video has been insightful!
Good to hear that feedback. Thanks for sharing.
The way Erin describes and explains what he hears makes it clear what the pros and cons are for these speakers. Erin is such a fantastic teacher. He makes complex topics understandable for the masses. His knowledge and understanding of audio is way beyond 99% of reviewers.
Thanks! Your gifts are on their way! 😂😂😂
So true, LOVE Erin’s work. One of my absolute favorites on YT…BOOM
Great review Erin! I got R200 and kef q150 and I was leaning toward kef, thinking something wasn't really up there for R200. Now I understand what that was 😁 I still enjoy R200, it's a very good speaker for me and I will try to equalize it. Thank you!
I really need some help picking out a sub and a dac/amp solution for these speakers
Thank you for reviewing these.
I had higher expectations.
You've talked me off the edge on a few few products. Thanks for your reviews. I need stuff like this to murder my crippling FOMO.
Great information , looking forward of R700 Measurements and your review
Maybe!
I'd love to see that as well! Mainly because I own a pair.
Polk claims that pinnacle ring radiator tweeter have better off axis response and can achieve wide sweet spot ho w did you feel about their own statement in reality
something seems amiss for sure. I initially got interested in the Reserve line because of napilopez's posting of his quasi-anechoic spin and it was flat throughout the mids. Lots of bass too. Can't explain the difference in bass either (this is a fairly sizable speaker) so for it to be light in bass is odd as well. I still think this is a good speaker (heard it and it didn't sound off to me when I heard it, but I didn't spend that much time with it). I wouldn't be surprised if there was a running change but that sucks for the consumer who are taking the reviews on faith that the product they bought is the same as the one reviewed
Thanks for this great review Erin. I wonder if the tower versions have these issues too. I've been wanting to sell my Quincy and 580s to buy a pair of R700.
I'm in a similar place. Looking for some "end game" speakers in the $2K to $4K max range. Was seriously considering the R700, especially when they are on discount, but now, not so sure. Might be looking to something a bit further up the food chain, Wharfedale Linton, to JBL L100 perhaps. I'd like to see Erin do some tests of Dynaudio and Dali floor standers, along the new KLH Model 7. While I sit in the "sweet spot", I don't want that sweet spot to be too narrow.
@@rosswarren436onestly the 580 is very good. Just highpass some subs. Polk would probably be a big step back. If you can find a used pair of JBL 4349 I would do that. The drivers on that are next level good. All you would ever need. I would take them over many many speakers costing more. I own the 4367… so lost of bias lol. But have owned Revel 228be, focal, thiel, B&W,Klispch, etc and JBL will be my last “band”. Only new horns from here on out for me.
This was posted literally right after I bought it lol
Well, let us know what you think about them once you have had some time with em.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I like them a lot in near field for my desk setup. Coming from Klipsch bookshelves the bass is pretty good to my ears. I never had high expectations of amazing bass on bookshelf speakers so I use a small subwoofer to fill in the low-mid bass range. I wonder if you could recommend a bookshelf speaker for under $1k/pair with much better bass. Perhaps ELAC Uni-Fi Reference UBR62?
I listen to electronic music and I usually use the beginning of "produk 29" by Aphex Twin and some parts of "Friendship Through Clear Plastic Walls" by Dan Terminus to test bass.
Relax they're really good! I listen to the R200 than my dynaudio focus 140.
This is why I like my listening room small. My audio system isn't pushed much to energize the room and it sound great.
When I had the R200 and R700, I didnt like them. I even liked the Diamond 12.2 and 12.4 more and some people called me crazy for that. The R200 and R700 had a glare and brightness at the top end, but it doesnt sound airy at all. Its a very irritating type of sound, like a fly buzzing next to your ear. A very 'dead and stiff' sound, if you will. Soundstage was also narrow, narrower than most speakers I had. Must be that RR tweeter dropping off real quick. Sold both after 4 - 5 months, I was lucky to get them sold fast as white was a colour many were looking for. Didnt lose much at all. Then I went for the Focal Chora and Aria, which was a totally different story............
What’s the story on the Focal Chora?
@@TD05SSLegacy for me personally, one of the best speakers out there for the price and more. Nothing comes close to the transparency, detail retrieval, dynamics and air on these speakers and I love a wide directivity speaker. The Chora 816 has been klippeled by Amir and it has a rather neutral on axis response but a flared off axis response peaking at 8khz making it bright in the PIR. If you got your sidewalls, floor and ceiling treated even with a thin absorber seeing that the offending frequency is high up the spectrum, you are all good. Amir loved it in his subjective listening test, if that matters.
@@AbsoluteFidelity Yes, floor standers do more. I have Chora 806 bookshelves. They are bright but not sibilant. Really need to be paired with warm amp. Sub and 80hrz crossover helps them have a midrange at all. Decent solution but fatiguing compared to Elac and Heco bookshelf models I have.
@@TD05SSLegacy the 806s most probably have a flared off axis response too but can be remedied with treatment. I have the 806 and 826 and the 806s are more dynamic than any standmounts I have owned. Fatiguing is a subject that differ from person to person, one might get fatigue from a 1-3khz bump, another might experience it with a 6-10khz bump. I personally do not get any fatigue with the Choras. Many owners of the 816 and 826 complain of not having enough bass, not Amir when he pumped 800 watts into the 816. These speakers are power hungry, even the 806s. Pump current into them, they will sound real different. The difference between my SMSL DA9 and Crown XLS2502 driving them is huge. But I do have dual SB1000s so bass isnt problem for me. I cross the 806 over at 90hz in my room.
I bought these on sale in Canada for $750 which is like $560 US. I drive them with a M.F. 3.5 amp and they sound great. Are they perfect? Of course not. What $500 speaker is considering the quality of crossover components used. They're still a good value and I couldn't be happier with them. At the end of the day, how do they sound in your room and do you enjoy them? I appreciate what Erin and Danny at GR do providing measurements, but measurements aren't the end all in my speaker purchase decision.
🤷♂️
heyy sorry to bother you, I really stuck between Evo 4.2 and R200, which is better in terms of sound quality alone? thankss
My R200 speakers have excellent deep bass in my system... Eversolo DMP-A6 streamer via USB to Denefrips Pontus II Dac to Musical Fidelity M6Si Integrated Amp in a medium sized room. No need for Sub!
at what volume do you listen in db(a)?
Movies and Music at the same level?
Varied from mid 70’s to lower 90’s in room. I push speakers at times to see what they’re capabilities are.
Mixed media.
I wander will the r200ae version with the upgraded air core inductors and all film capacitors suffer from the same distortion's? Ive seen andrew Robinson compare both and they measure identical but he doesnt do as indepth testing as you. Would be cool to see a follow-up chiming in on the anniversary edition!
Thanks so much for this, was doubting to get these as an extra pair, but now I’m sure I better check something else out:-)
$1800 it should have its own powered amp to power it.
Only 200 watts 🤦🏻♂️
These measure much better than $7000 dynaudio !! WOW! I don't know anyone who would waste money on a badly measuring speaker that sells for $7000. They are not super precise either.
I can't imagine downplaying $700 speakers and praising $7000 speakers for measuring worse. That would be so disingenuous. Gosh, i hope you don't make a video praising the badly measuring dynaudio while damning the polk.
😂 yes! Hahahaha
The narrowing dispersion above 10kHz is not really unique to ring radiator tweeters. It's common for tweeters on a flat baffle or in a shallow waveguide as well (compare to DI of Wharfedale Diamond 12.1, Elac B6.2, Emotiva B1+). Most of these designs have an on-axis lift above 10kHz to compensate.
Did you happen to have both speakers in the pair to test? I'm wondering if there is a chance the woofer is malfunctioning in this sample since the midrange issues didn't show up in Napier Lopez's measurements or yours of the R100. It's also odd that the F3 you measures for the R100 is lower. As it stands, it seems like the R100 is the better implementation in these series with a lower crossover frequency to a smaller midwoofer. Of course, you should use a subwoofer with either of them.
You’re not wrong, entirely. However, RR tweeters, compared to dome tweeters, “beam” more tightly. If you look at raw driver response from ScanSpeak you’ll see this holds true.
www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-soft-dome-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-d3004/6020-00-tweeter-textile-dome/
www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/scanspeak-illuminator-r3004/6020-00-1-tweeter-small-ring-radiator/
I didn’t test both but I listened as a stereo pair. The issues I heard weren’t side biased which indicates both have the issue.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the links, and I see what you're saying on those raw driver responses. Wouldn't you say the DI of the final implementation in the speaker is more important though? From that angle, the Reserve series is pretty similar to the "classic" dispersion from a 2-way with a 1in dome without a significant waveguide. I'm betting the midrange stuff is way more audibly problematic than the >10kHz stuff.
Don't you think it's odd the R200 showed no real increase in bass extension or sensitivity vs the smaller R100? Maybe they are just pushing that 6.5" woofer too high. I can't really comment on audible issues on my end since I don't have any of the Reserve speakers with the 6.5" driver.
I can only speak of my very limited experience with these speakers. A friend of mine owns some and I have heard them for several hours, being able to swap them out on the same system with some Atlantic Technology speakers and compare. The Polks were nice but not, in my opinion, high-end. The Atlantic Technology speakers were noticeably more pleasant and lifelike.
What is the right crossover frequenz for the r200? I use a rel t7i subwoofer. 80 hz or higher?
I owned the R200 for over a year. I only listened to them at reasonable volumes in a small room, but I thought they were really nice. Subjectively my opinion aligned with napilopez in his ASR thread. I thought they were superior to other speakers I tried in a similar price range (ELAC Debut Reference DBR-62, ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52, Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, KEF LS50, Quad S2, Wharfedale Evo 4.1, and a few others). I replaced them with the CSS Audio Criton 1-TD, but it was pretty close in my opinion.
I need to try those critons.
I'm not as well versed into the science like you are, but I gotta respectfully disagree with the subjective portion of your review. These r200 have plenty of bass. I've had to pull them way out from the wall or they are too much. To me they play like a baby floorstander. I had them side by side on the amp with a switcher with the kef q950 and they were digging deeper than the big kefs. I like to listen pretty loud and they have certainly kept up.
Over the last year or so I've auditioned the svs ultra, elac dbr and unifi ref, kef q350, q950, and r3, and polk l200 and older polk 703 lsim. The r200 for under a $1000 is a really phenomenal value and a speaker i kept going back to. I'm a bass guy, and found them to be one of the few bookshelf speakers I can go without a sub and be fine. The only ones i found to out right best them are the kef r3's, as they should at 3x's the price and the duscountinued 703 lsim. All the rest i including the higher tier polk l200, did some things well, but overall i kept coming back to the r200. All of these were used with a marantz model 30 integrated amplifier.
Good review and i respect what you do for the hobby, just giving me feedback of them.
If you looked at the rest of the comments, you’ll see people agree with you and then people agree with me. Not sure what is driving the real difference. Maybe you had yours closer to a wall than I do. Or maybe there’s something different about the version that some of us used. Who knows. Luckily I have the data to publish and people can draw their own conclusions. That’s the tricky thing about subjective, you just don’t know all the variables. But if you know how to apply the data, then you can come up with a good idea of what will work for you, and what will not.
I appreciate your feedback.
What do you like about the Polk Lsim703 over the R200? Thanks in advance.
Same. Bought q350, elac unifi 2.0, r200, kept the r200, bass like a floorstander.
@Trent Walker its a world's better speaker. More open, better midrange, bass and treble. Like Erin said, the ring radiator tweeter does better on axis. I ended up finding a pair of lsim 707's. Once I got those I no longer have the upgrade itch. For 2 channel music listening you legitimately can skip a sub. Plenty of clean airy bass. You can get similar results with the 703 and a sub though. The only thing is, I wish they were a bit more stylish. To me they aren't ugly, but definitely not good looking. For a bookshelf, the 703 are fairly large as well.
@Greg Matula did you like the unfi ref? I enjoyed them very much. I just liked the r200 more.
Just got a pair and I also feel there's a distinct lack of bass. Thing is these are my first pair of "hifi" speakers and I'm pairing them with a Aiyima T9 Pro so I don't have much to go by (other than my roommate's Q150). Was yours also manufactured in December of 2022?
I can't say because I shipped the speakers back to the dealer who loaned them to me.
I've been using the R200 for a few days and I also notice the bass is quite shy. If I crank up the bass on the receiver they are capable of producing low frequencies but it's still quite recessed. When the signal is neutral the bass isn't very strong and there's not much air coming from the port. The mid range and higher frequencies are loud and pronounced and dominate the sound even when using a subwoofer. They are quite comfortable to listen to with most music but if music has been mastered with too much treble it sounds a bit too bright. It's not quite what I was expecting based on all the reviews and recordings on UA-cam and the size of the cabinet. Mine were manufactured November 2023.
I did hear the boost above 10k and wondered why some reviews said it was treble deficient. I point them forward 10 degrees or so, it takes care of that bump. I don't hear a 1k issue at normal volumes. I do notice the vertical phase issue, you can tell it's not 4th order x-over. The bass on the other hand is plentiful, not the tightest bass but full, on stands and two or three feet out. Kef Q350 had tighter bass but not as abundant. My infinity intermezzo also has tighter bass, and probably measures lower but the Polk has more bass output.
@@happydogg312 Same here. I tried to utilize the golden ratio in my computer room. The front baffle is 4 ft from the front wall and a 12" sub is right between the Polks.
Another revealing review, thanks for this Erin, it speaks volumes. Pun intended!
😂😂
Which amplifier(s) did you insert inside the loop with these guys???
I spent a few hours at a friend who had them. The impedance that we measured was around 3.5 ohms. The manufacturer claims the sensitivity to be 86dB at 2.83V at 1 metre distance. Moreover, when I spoke to Polk representative at an audio show, he told me that the speakers sound best with 70 to 80 Watts of amplification. I have been in this business long enough to know that when a salesperson says 70 Watts, we are half galaxy away from Audio Note type boxes that dance with 5 Watts of triode signal. We we connected these guys to an old Coda CSi integrated amp (definitely an overkill), sound was excellent. In sum, count on needing a decent class A/B solid state amp for these guys.
I like Erin's comments, but I don't know what to say on this. All web reviews say great things on reserve series, but he really killed these speakers. I plan to buy R600 but now, I don't know what to do. Klipsch 8000 mk2 is also a great speaker by internet community, but he also shit on them.
Besides that, when I hear him talk about polk XT60 review then R600 is expensive crap and XT60 is a better choice. WTF?
Is there any floorstander that he really like? Or all his speaker reviews are little bit on negative side and he is always looking for a needle in a haystack 🙂 ?
Thank you for another excellent review, Erin! The 1kHz bump is an interesting 'feature' i didnt hear or see in my measurements, but, we know who wins in a battle of Klippel vs quadi-anechoic measurements =]
I personally found the brightness in the highs were pretty much completely manageable with minimal toe-in, since the ring radiator has such a quick HF fall-off, with the consequence of the sweetspot being a little constrained.
Even with your data and impressions, I do still think these are a great value though. I'm actually in the market for some new bookshelves and was thinking sbout these again, so your review is timely. My question is: is there anything else in the $700ish price range that's obviously better? Not being rhetorical; genuinely curious. Especially as someone who prefers something a bit wider in the 2-8khz region than the big waveguide speakers.
You might wanna look at the pinned comment. Others are agreeing with what your review showed, but then others agree with mine. Someone is saying that Polk have released different versions of these. I’m wondering if you got one of those other versions.
As for comparisons, I’ll have to think about that for a little bit. I’ve reviewed so many that it’s hard for me to recall at this point in time.
@@ErinsAudioCornerhaha that person just said they made up the thing about the batches so 🤷♂️
@@napilopez heck, who knows. He commented the same thing in a separate post.
There’s a pretty long thread over on a SR about someone’s issues with the speaker, though. Agreed, and then someone else replied below, that Polk’s has offered to send them replacement woofers because they thought there may be something wrong with them. So I’m not sure. I can’t argue with anybody else’s experience. I can only report on mine. Luckily I have data and you also have yours so it seems like we can draw correlations from that.
@@ErinsAudioCorner it's the nice thing about having decent measurements from multiple sources. I *have* definitely seen clear changes in performance from batch to batch with other speakers. Or occasional build quality issues (your test of the R3's "shadow flare" comes to mind!) So I certainly wouldn't rule out differences from pair to pair.
Having a narrow axis is just stupid...who sits in 1 place to listen to music? I move around, do other things so the music should fll the room. If I want to ear ALL the freq ranges, just use gud dam headphones!
Hello! I wanted to upgrade my system from polk es20 to r200 or the wharfedale evo 4.2s.The es 20 has a great listening angle, sometimes I listen it near my desk but the high frequencies are quite good.
I heard about this problem both r200 and the evos that the listening window is too narrow.At the r200 the tweeter is too direct, and at the evos the ribbon are too flat and the angle is also poor. Can you confirm these? I would like something better bookshelves for my pm7005 stereo amp, sounded like diamond 11.2 but more durable-more power load capacity.
What is your best speaker in a similar reasonable price range?
I have a pair of R200 and dynaudio focus 140.
To my ears , the r200 are much lovelier and enjoyable and more relaxing to listen to.
Wow! Audio is so weird! Is it that subjective? How can a speaker with all these awards get a bad review from a very good speaker measurement person. I compare audio to weather. Sometimes the ambient temperature dosent tell the whole picture. I have the R200 in my garage system, and I really like them for that. 👍🏻
I heard the special edition or anniversary edition, whatever it is, of these speakers and I found it to be a little bit better. Wonder how they measure and what they truly did with the more expensive unit
Just higher quality crossover parts and wood veneer that I’m aware of. Higher quality crossover parts can definitely make a difference 👍🏻
Response linearity graph is wrong on your site in the R200 page: it is the same as previous (impedance) graph.
Sir which one is best polk ES20 or reserve R200 according to low mids and high.
Which is best for those who are music lover
The linearity response graph of the R200 is missing from your website.
Another great video ty erin
Thanks for watching!
First ... nice to see the relocation of the inset image.
Previously, it obscured vital graph components in the impedance measurements.
Edit;
I just finished, nice, concisely presented data and extrapolated observations.
Solid work.
Yes, you are right. I am trying to keep a better eye on that kind of stuff.
you're killin it.
Great review. I wish there were more YT reviewers who were as thorough and circumspect as you, Erin. A whole bunch of reviewers lost a lot of credibility for me when they all put out rave reviews on the same day when this series was released. Having said that, it would be really helpful if you could provide some context for your evaluation. What speaker of this size and price range have you found performs and sounds better? Is there something of similar size but cheaper that you’d say performs as well?
I’ll keep that in mind for future reviews. 👍
Sometimes I might not have a better suggestion at the time. Too many speakers. Not enough time. 😂
Given how many speakers you’ve reviewed and how credible you are, it’s saying something if you can’t right now think of anything better or as good for the price. So it would provide helpful context if you just said that. We’re all interested in where you think a speaker sits in the market, as far as you know right now.@@ErinsAudioCorner
@@williambracken9339 the real issue is that it’s hard for me to recall all the things I’ve reviewed. I need to keep a spreadsheet with prices just for this reason.
The great thing about Erin’s video reviews is the knowledge gained in how to use the speaker.
I’m glad they help. 🙂
@@ErinsAudioCorner Keep up the good work man. Eagerly waiting for your KEF R Meta series reviews to drop. Most informative review channel specifically for speakers. Awesome.
Bummed to hear this. I have R700’s and love them. Is there a better value recommendation in the $500-$1000ish range? I was considering a used R3 for $800 or the CSS 1TD-X. I need it to play fairly loud as my seating position is around 13ft away.
You got great speakers dont let the youfomo hit you. Trust your ears
I just picked up a pair of R200’s for $338 on eBay. This the only bad review I’ve seen on this really good speaker. No bass? You have to be kidding! Glare? BS! I hate speakers with a 1khz bump. I don’t hear that at all. Maybe his set weren’t broken in or something. I’m driving them with a 55 watt per channel Luxman integrated amp and they sound very good. Strange review.
Measurements are not even bad. There is a small resonance. Directivity is not the best but that is also a benefit. You can tweak the sound to your liking just by positioning the speakers. Narrow dispersion in the higher frequencies means they will sound less bright pointed outward. If you want bright point them at your ears.
My R700's hit hard bro. Ditched a so so Denon 6700 for a new Sony AVR and my R700's are singing!
ES20's sound alot better than the reserves overall. You wont get a headache for sure
Instant sub if you do Polk R700 :) it will be a good workout as well 😅
This is a very interesting review. It is a complete outlier compared to all the other reviews even in other countries speaking different languages! Maybe Erin got a bad batch?
I had the exact same experience with the vocal glare and artificial treble. Didn't enjoy it at all, but really tried based on the overwhelmingly positive, glowing reviews that never mentioned anything like what I was hearing. Mentioned my experience on the forums and was basically told the issue was my ears not the speakers.
Thanks for sharing!
Superb !!!! No BS review / data. I'm biting the bullet and putting a deposit on Warfdale 12.4 or SVS Prime towers for HT
Erin, Thanks for your review of this loud speaker. I'm glad I didn't have the $ to buy these when I thought I wanted them. All the best to you.
Glad I could help!
Hmm, sounds like they imitate a Floridian school book, huh?
😄
Too much “if” for the price. And, again, another bright speaker. I’m curious for Dynaudio Evoke Bookshelf. Seems to be a great speaker
I have them, I don't consider them bright. If anything, I've found them to be pretty neutral and take well to EQ.
so basically these speakers are NOT meant to be used as mains just surround sound duty period?
Looking for your review on Polk Elight Signature Series Speaker.....
just got klipsch mclaren fives, love the app and all the connection options/built in amp.
and the bass thumps, still going to pair with rsl speedwoofer 10s mkii or two of them
Please review Elac debut reference DBR62
Higher Love... I believe that is a cow bell perhaps held in a hand. It's not a triangle 😊
Thanks for another outstanding review Erin. If I can’t hear much above 10kHz (age, hearing loss, etc…), what’s your opinion about a frequency response as you’ve described it affecting the areas of the frequency spectrum I can hear? Is that a thing?
It is about time, I did pass on them.😮
Great video, very informative. I'm looking forward to your Martin Logan reviews!
How can 200Hz be mid-range if upper bass is from 100hz to 400Hz? Plenty of speakers have the famous upper-bass boost around 200Hz. Perhaps we shoul call that a 'low mid-range boost' from now on? 😉😉😉
Lower midrange, upper midbass. At least I told you the specific frequency. 🤷♂️😂
Please do a Sonus Faber Lumina II. Not very popular in the US but might be some of the best 1000 dollar speakers.
If I can find a pair on loan I will.
Enlightening review, thanks Erin. Have feeling an R200 mk2 will be in the works as a result of this review.
Sound United sent this speaker to most of the larger UA-cam channels and included bonus money for the reviews. Had the reviewers paid their own $ the enthusiasm would have likely been much less.
Do you have facts of this?
@@charlesking678 from a reviewer that received the bonus
@@seanb3303 IIRC Joe N Tell was one of the reviewers that released a video upon the Reserve series being introduced. I remember the others were Steve Guttenberg, cheapaudioman, Zero Fidelity, and New Record Day. Are you implying Joe took money from Sound United in exchange for a positive review?
I also do measurements and mine are measuring significantly different than the one Erin has. See the pinned comment.
Also, I fully disclose my relationships with companies in my videos.
Erin has also reviewed the Polk R100 prior, which uses the same tweeter and it measured differently. It seems like something is going on.
@@joentell yes you are very good at disclosing relationships
@Erin try the track “Doing It
Right” by Daft Punk to test for Bass. Thanks for your reviews
Whole album is good. That’s one of my go-to’s. 😉
I own these, I think they are excellent and I've tried many other pairs up to $1,200 to arrive at these. I use them in a near field set up in a small office. The speakers actually sit to my sides pointed directly at my ears from 4' away. Unusual but it works well. Downside is the narrow sweet spot but who cares, I'm already sitting in it! They actually have a substantial low end in this small room and the bass is definitely not one note. I would describe their sound as dense and detailed and are tons of fun with electronica/pop. I can confirm the narrow directivity of the tweeter, I wouldn't use these in a home theater or powered by a receiver (Focal Chora series much better for HT). The bass gets really flabby with these unless you have a clean amp (I like the Audiolab 6000a with the R200's). They are decent at low volumes but come alive with just a bit of volume. I have never even come close to using this speakers full power.
I think the review comes across pretty negative (maybe without meaning to). But they are probably worth an audition if you are shopping for stereo speakers in this price range and own a clean amp.
My problem is that I have not found an upgrade path yet even tripling the budget that would beat these on all fronts in my near field set up. Any ideas?
Good, slightly more expensive alternatives could be Heco Celan Revolution 3, XTZ 99.25, Focal Aria 906, Kef R-3 or some of the cheapest Revel models.
You use these behemoths as desk speakers?! That is awesome!
Erin glad to see you back doing these reviews, thank you for the great educational information!
Could you please review the KEF R3 META not the reference but the cheaper one!
Soon!! 😎
Ngl your videos are really soothing to watch and listen to
What does F3 and F10 mean?
F3 is the point in the bass response where the speaker's output has rolled off by 3DB. F10 is the -10 db point.
^ yep. Just keep in mind that the values are relative to the average sensitivity (which I calculate from 300Hz to 3kHz).
Hello,
Thanks for the very informative video. I’d like to request a review of the Axiom Audio M5hp bookshelf please!
Thanks. If you happen to have a pair available to loan me I’d be happy to. I’d reached out to Axiom a couple years ago and didn’t get a reply.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I don’t unfortunately. I really want these speakers for my home theater, since the offer an on wall and in room variety, which is perfect for my application. The one review I’ve seen wasn’t the best outcome for Axiom. If you ever feel inclined to reach back out to them, they may respond back this time?
They run a pretty substantial Black Friday sale, I’m waiting until then.
Hey, I don't think you've ever measured surround dipole speakers, have you? Those would be interesting to see in detail since they're often overlooked.
I believe the closest I've come to testing a design like that is Linkwitz's LX Mini.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I'm having trouble setting up my surrounds in my studio, I like to have the LCR far behind the screen, but my surrounds are much closer, so they don't integrate very well.
It seems those dipole surrounds would be less "directional" so I tried finding information about them and there's pretty much nothing out there with actual measurements, so maybe this type of speaker would be interesting (and educational) to review.
Is there any tutorial on how to read the graphs displayed in this video?
Here you go:
ua-cam.com/play/PLnIxFR_ey0b37Ex4KV2mBz-kYB7QLffR1.html
Random question,would it be worth it to klippel test a speaker that a manufacturer has already tested with their own klippel nfs, and has already published their own data?
You’re thinking Ascend Audio?
If so, I reached out to Dave a couple weeks ago.
I would generally say it’s not necessary. But I do provide other tests that no one else does and those tests are helpful when hunting down audible issues.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Yes Ascend is who I was thinking of,it seems that a lot of people refute,or don't accept, his data on ASR and other forums. I have have his LX bookshelves for my LCR and I enjoy them. I did an in home demo and picked them over KEF R3's,Philharmonic BMR's and CSS Criton 1TDX's
0:45 - I see new Martin Logan Motions in the background. Review coming soon?
Yep.
Knew it. I just got the F10s (smallest floor stander). I'm interested to hear your review.
Another great video.
Excellent review
I know it is apples and oranges, but I assume the "beaming" of the ring tweeter and how sharp it falls off starting at 16KHz would be the same on the R700 floor stander. Good video and informative after all the over-the-top UA-cam reviews we have seen. One YT reviewer thought the R700 gave him maybe 90% of the $10K/pair Wharfedale Elysian 4. Makes me think, well, maybe not quite so fast. For $750 though, the R200 might be "reasonable". I would worry that the R700, using the same driver as a midrange might be output limited too due to the distortion you noticed. The R700 had been on my short list, but now I might be looking at something from Dynaudio, Dali, Wharfedale, KLH, or even Zu. Thanks. Knowledge is power.
I have the r700, and while I don't have measuremnts, they do go pretty damn loud and clear. Also with those the crossovers are at 350hz and 2700hz, so the mid isnt dealing with any low bass.
R700 has different midrange driver
thank you
Welcome!
this is sooo intersting. The only thorough data driven review we see on these speakers says their meh, yet all the subjective reviewers all simultaneously heaped praise. Some reviewers even had these in the running for speakers of the year awards. I never trust any review without thorough measurements at this point, and those trade show reviews are laughable.
That's how they sound to you, but the big problem with people reviewing speakers is simply the fact that all they are doing is letting us know what only their ears picked up on. The reason why this isn't really worth much to most other people is simply because we all hear things differently, and that's not including the fact that we have different systems with different requirements of a speaker and we also have different rooms.
Every speaker has its flaws, but speaker reviews are even more of a waste of time than any other component in the audio system.
Measurements are even worse simply because they encourage people to draw conclusions before they even listen to something.
To give you an example as to how absurd that is, just look a very good tube amplifiers which allow many speakers to sound fantastic. Those very same tube amplifiers do not measure well. Measurements are hugely inconsistent with their ability to predict performance.
We are doing ourselves a disservice to exclude any speaker without hearing it first. And we are doing ourselves even more of a disservice if we buy a speaker we have never heard before, no matter what UA-cam experts conclude.
Do you own these speakers?
(Side note: I always listen before I look at measurements)
There are a few speakers that exhibit such a sloped bass response, KEF included. They complement a natural "boost" in bass response due to room effects. Maybe these are geared towards use in small rooms, or closer to walls than usual. The 50 Hz Fb defines basically how low these speakers will go by themselves.
No its just looser manufacturer toleranses in the voice coil gap lowering sensitivity and weaker magnet. This makes the bass driver cheaper to manufacture. Tolerances and assembly cost go way up with small clearances. If they really wanted to sacrifice the bass they atleast could have made the sensitivity higher by making the driver lighter and narrowing the voice coil gap for allround better performance. Erin's review shows every cost cutting measure theres is, and its brutally honest sometimes. Thats why his reviews are so freaking awesome.
@@impuls60 We seem to be talking about two different things. I'm referring to design choices. You're referring to manufacturing choices. I'm suggesting that Polk, like some other speaker companies, KEF included, probably chose to have their speaker exhibit such a sloping bass response at low frequencies. Hell, I've done the same for a pair of speakers that I designed and built, and it had nothing to do with what choices were made to make the woofer cheaper.
Rooms may be smaller in the UK, so they may gear their speakers towards their demographic.
I wish this video never exist
Well, it does. What’s your email address? I’ll email you the link. 😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner lol this is only decent speaker which I get in my country(India) under msrp.
Rest all are double the price than msrp.
@@ErinsAudioCorner i can’t unsee the video now, I stopped the plans to buy these pairs, so my speaker hunt resumes.
These are the kind of reviews we need on UA-cam, not BS reviews.
Great info as per usual but my experience with this model Polk was a little different. I found the woofer can be a bit too much, placement off the wall took awhile for me to get perfect. I was getting strong bass down to 53hz and this is where I crossed my sub at. I had to drop down almost 3db at 970-1khz, and almost 2db around 6k to rid of some sibilance. I also was getting a big drop off at 10khz instead of the 16khz you mentioned.. no matter where I placed the speakers when I was testing my in room FR. I'm pretty deaf over 12k so anything after that doesn't effect me anyway. I also felt the R200 sounded best at loud volumes (85-90db at 3meters) To me these suckers rock out. I've compared the R200 to a few different speakers in home and I even have the Linton's that you liked, which I really like as well but will say I preferred the R200/subs for everyday listening. I have the R700's also and I've come across a couple issues I need to pan out with them as well. When I first got them I felt they had no bass, sounded very uneven, drop off under 130hz. I even wrote to Polk a few times about this. After running them for a month and switching to using the top binding posts my FR sweep shows better bass but still not linear like it should. Polk things I have woofer issues and wants me to pull them out off the crossover and test them out..always something. So yeah this is an interesting video to me but leaves me with more questions than answers when I compare my experience with the R200 bass to yours.
The R700 are too big for me to ship anywhere but would love for you to get a hold of these to see what's really going on with them
So, there are others in the comments here who share your experience and others who share mine. One has said there was a “batch change” which explains the difference these two “groups” are hearing. I can’t verify this myself but I find it an interesting notion and it may very well be true.
@@ErinsAudioCorner it would explain the differences but I've never heard of a company doing this. Kinda uncool if it's true though in my opinion.
@@NosEL34 Companies change sources/methods/parts etc. Think about the recent supply chain issues for everything including toilet paper! Heck I've been in meetings where if we didn't change the cost structure of somehting, we'd all be fired! As an example, look at the DAC changes Denon made a bit ago to there mid-range receivers likely due to a fire at a chip plant.
@@JohnSmith-qi6co that is all very true
I found this issue with the r700. Bad fatigue. Will return for lintons.
If you do wind up ordering those, please consider using my link below. It earns me a small commission, but doesn’t cost you anything extra. It would be really appreciated.
howl.me/ckfhw91LaKD
Sounds like you're not a fan of ring radiator tweeters in general?
Oh, I certainly am. Used them in many of my own builds.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Can you describe the reasons you used them given the downsides you explained here, please?
@@Audio_Simon in some cases I wanted a narrower HF pattern to limit HF reflections and increase imaging accuracy.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the explanation! I guess it can make sense in a near field?
@@Audio_Simon it can. Though, I’m not sure of a reason why it would be preferred as a studio monitor for nearfield unless (maybe) you are very close to a sidewall.
That resonance at 1k corresponds to an impedance spike of nearly 18 ohms ... That would indicate a problem in the crossover. Typical Polk. If you get up real close to each driver with a microphone (like an inch or so) and get curves for the individual drivers I'd bet you find the low pass filter is nearly resonant at 1khz.
Many two-way speakers have a similar impedance spike at or near the x-over region between woofer and tweeter. I'm betting it's a vent resonance. Easy to determine if that's the case by close-miking the vent.
@@Grommet2007
Usually it's about the shunt capacitor in the low pass filter being too big... or the series capacitor in the high pass being too small.
A lot of "designers" don't realize that the only difference between a low pass (or high pass) filter and a series resonant circuit is part values.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Still, such a peaked impedance at or near the x-over frequency is a characteristic of many two-way loudspeaker designs. IMO it's not indicative of "a problem in the x-over". It's a normal characteristic of them.
@@Grommet2007
A small peak in impedance at the crossover point is normal, maybe 1 or 2 ohms... not 16. Also that peak in output is not a characteristic of 2 way crossovers, it is a characteristic of bad design. Whoever designed that crossover used the shunt capacitor in the low pass filter to leverage the crossover point. Now it's resonating and peaking the output.
AND so you know ... Mine never do that.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 I just sim'd a bog-standard Lr 4th order 2kHz x-over in XSim using calculated values for the components and assumed 8 ohm impedance for the drivers, and the peak in the impedance curve reached... 16 ohms @ 2kHz. In any case, I've seen MANY two-way systems that show a similar large peak in impedance at the x-over point, including one or two that I've designed myself. IMO it's a characteristic of the design, not a flaw. Doesn't mean anything response-wise anyway, as modern amps are voltage sources and couldn't care less about the impedance, unless it drops below the minimum rated value for the amp.
I do agree that it is possible that the peak around 1kHz could be bad design, but as to what could fix it depends on what's causing the peak. If it's being caused by the direct output from the driver, then it can be tackled in the x-over (a parallel cap and resistor across the series inductor could notch it out, or by adjusting the shunt cap and resistor - typically for these designs the LP filter is used to both filter high frequencies and deal with the baffle step). If however it's being caused by the vent, dealing with it might be a bit more difficult :-).
Glad I bypassed this when it was being praised.
It's really good. I have dynaudio focus 140 but I find the polk r200 lovelier to listen to.
Bypassed this? Do you mean that you own and enjoy the R200?
@@seanb1321 bypassed buying it
This is where your typical UA-cam "audiophile" reviewer falls flat. They simply do not know how to properly analyze the speaker. They listen to it then give you lip service fluffed with all the typical adjectives. Don't EVER trust any reviewer who doesn't offer technical analysis.
Don’t you see that (almost) all reviewers fall flat!? On the technical side, the ASR forums don’t go in depth. How good are measurements if you don’t interpret them correctly ? I say this because the « science » crowd is praising the Polk R200 and R700 a lot. After this video I am questioning everything. Erin did an incredible job highlighting the faults of the R200. I can’t think of a single reviewer that would do the same thing.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q you use quotations in the "science" folks like it's something trivial like reviewing an audio product with subjective experience. If not science, then what? Voodoo?
@@DescartesRenegade I target ASR. They pretend like they know everything and can judge a speaker with just a few measurements and charts. It’s just so bogus and unscientific.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q wtf are you talking about? What makes sound? Pressure waves. What makes the pressure waves? The driver movement. What moves the driver? The electrical signals. These electrical signals are measurable. So, whatever it is you think you hear, it should be measurable. Sound doesn't just come into existence out of nothing. ASR measures these electrical signals. It's physics.
@@DescartesRenegade They measure yes. But the reviews are just like 2 or 3 sentences and the conclusions are vague.
Brooooo.... so do they slap? Are these enclosures ported? These will work on a Taramps Smart 5k right? Looking for some subs to slap super hard
If you want slap I suggest Bose cubes. They’re dope!
@@ErinsAudioCorner great! I’ll hook them up to the Taramps!!!
You placing the speakers on a turntable so we can see them fully and better judge size is something nobody else does and it's of great value. Thanks!
I acquired the Polk R100s last week during the Crutchfield sale.
They're in what I would assume to be the most ideal listening environment of my house, a carpeted, medium sized, rectangular, furnished room.
While I was pleasantly surprised at how well my little class D amp powers them, they too sound like what you describe of their bigger brothers. I found myself fiddling with the Wiim 9 band eq during some songs to figure out what I was or wasn't hearing.
In regards to bass response, I prefer that these little speakers don't even try instead of failing in an attempt to reach the lows when compared to my Klipsch RP600s. The low frequencies don't seem to cause any problems with the Polks
I found that running these speakers through the high pass filter of my subwoofer didn't provide any noticeable benefit as it almost sounds to be already built in to the speakers.
Overall, I'm satisfied with the Polks but it's only been a week and I find myself wanting to listen to my other speakers.
Thanks for that feedback.
As always a good review. So many people have called these amazing I a had a gut feeling they were not.
They’re not terrible, really. As long as volume is kept in a reasonable range and a subwoofer is used I think they’re a good speaker overall. Basically, use them within reasonable limits for a typical bookshelf speaker.
Well... Now I feel really lost. Is this a quality control issue? Are you right and all the ecstatic reviewers wrong? Is this limited to R200 and not the R100? I was ready to pull the trigger on these. I think I'll end up buying Q350s...
I’m definitely right about the speakers I reviewed. I can’t vouch for anyone else unless they have data to back up their claims.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I'm pretty sure you're right, Erin. That's why is so painful to realize that R200 is not the be-all and end-all speaker under $1k. Lol! I'm a Q300 owner trying to upgrade without mistakes (being in Brazil, everything is more difficult, and you don't necessarily have the chance to make mistakes.). Q350s seem a step to the side. R3s are just to expensive. So here I am! Haha.
I bought both q350 and r200 at the same time to compare. I liked both. The q350 was warmer for sure, accentuates male vocals, more energy around 250hz I would say. Q350s mid-bass driver seemed lighter with more detail. Q350s treble seemed to roll off above 10khz. R200 sounded more neutral except for the boost above 10khz. R200 had a deeper bass response not requiring a sub in a smaller room. q350 had a vertical advantage over the r200, with r200 you need your ears to be between the woofer and the tweeter to keep from having cancellation issues. I kept the r200 but enjoyed the flavor of the Q350 also.
@@gregmatula9749 Thank you so much Greg for the answer! Reading your experience it seems the quality difference between both speakers is not like night and day. I really like my q300, so I might end up buying the q350. I like how forgiving the concentric design is in relation to the position of the listener. And any EQ difference can be mitigated by room correction systems. Thank you again for taking the time to help!
everybody "loves" Erin until he reviews the very expensive speaker they just bought and then its 😡🔥😭
so funny to watch and read the meltdowns
Lot of truth here.
Great stuff! Doesn’t the amp you use color speaker response? I’ve heard speakers should be matched to amps, anything to that? Might make an interesting video to see how they affect measurements.
No way. The only way an amp would color the response is if it were a bad amp, or the user pushed the amp behind clipping.
May I ask which amps you tried with the Polks?