The flux I would consider essential. I use silver solder frequently with stainless items, and the flux makes the solder flow and stick much better than without.
Now that is dedication, I simply wanted to trouble shoot a possible dud transducer, started with your first video and was instantly grateful for your efforts. Both these videos were brilliant and went through some of the practical solutions I was about to attempt. Genuinely impressed with your scientific and engineering rigor. I'll be watching your videos in the future. Much respect.
A good idea when brazing a stud like this onto thin sheet is to put a thick backing plate against the back side of the sheet. It'll soak up any excess heat and help stop any warping.
If you ever read this... I am new and experimenting as well, and i recently got told about resistance soldering. Seems to me, that method would work even better than silver soldering in this case! I am discovering that for me, TOOLS really is my hobby haha♡ be well :)
Great work, lots of discovery there, really interesting for me (my company makes transducers). I couldn’t see if you prepared the tank surface. You increase the adhesive strength a lot if you sandblast or roughen the surfaces. This gives the adhesive a larger area and surface features to key into. Pulling the transducers when the one surface can flex with result in a weaker bond, more like a peel test. Every transducer has its own frequency, not always exactly the same but close. Because they are so narrow-band, you could be closer to the resonance on some transducers than others, it will work harder and get hotter if it’s closer to resonance. As for the polarity, it does not matter, transducers are insensitive to polarity but if you put 2 near each other it would be preferable to match polarity so that they drive the same way. If you parallel two transducers they definitely need their polarity matched. Also, the front and back metal blocks of the transducer are connected to one of the wires so you may get “live” voltages on the tank. Hopefully the electronics has its output electrically isolated so this won’t be an issue. How well the output is isolated is the real question, is it safe? I seriously doubt they have safety approval ratings on the electronics and considering the high voltages involved, this can become dangerous.
Another important thing to realize about the wiring, if you’ve screwed the transducers to the metal tank, they make good electrical contact and so all transducer negatives are connected together. Might save on some wiring if you want to use the tanks as the single negative connection. I don’t recommend this though, but realize that the tank is electrically live. If you connect one transducer the wrong way, … big short.
As many have mentioned, flux will make it much easier to flow the solder and get a reliable bond. If it is soft solder, the plumbing torch is a bit overkill and will make heat management a bit tricky for the thin wall tank. One of those pocket butane torch lighters would work perfectly. Stainless heat soaks very easily due to very low thermal conductivity, so less heat than you think and a bit of patience is best to let it come up to temperature without creating hot spots. If it starts to glow, it is definitely way too hot for soft solder. The small pencil flame of a butane torch lighter would help make it easier to focus the heat primarily on the stud and just flick the flame off to the tank just enough to bring up the temperature to where the flux starts cleaning. Getting solder flowing on the stud will help conduct heat into the tank and flow it to the tank without too much heat deformation from too much direct heat. Just before glowing is about good brazing temperature for a Harris stay silv brazing filler if you are doing it that way.
Ultra-sonic cleaning improves almost everything I use it for. Even in plating processes, it causes the build to be more diverse and compacted. You can also add a sonic horn and other techniques to the ultra-sonic without causing harmful effects to each process. I was going to name all of the functions it improves, but there are just too many. Whether its medical equipment, automotive, industrial cleaning, high-tech production parts, surface polishing, and plating, etc........ Wiring , welding, width of wall thickness are all super important. Most of the liquids used in the US, are wetting agents to help wet the solution to an altered state of slipperiness. This makes the dislodging of the smallest particles very easy.
Very helpful testing! I was convinced that brazing would be good and I was sure that welding would fare better than silver solder. It's a good thing you did this testing. Thank you.
Actually, that comes down to the degree of heating, and the heating+cooling cycle. Because welding heats up the metal a bit more localized, and far hotter, to regain maximum strength in the area, the steel actually needs to be re-annealed. Annealing is the process of heating the steel up enough to cause crystal-reordering (usually just heating it until "ruby red" is plenty); then cooling it SLOWLY, to avoid "quench hardening" as it cools. In this case, placing a piece of kao-wool inside the pan; then heating the stud with the propane torch until it just started to glow; finally placing a second piece of the insulation over the stud & lave overnight, would be a relatively low cost+complexity way to improve the weld-strength (assuming, ofc, that he was using stainless fill wire & didn't corrupt the steel by using normal, mild-steel fill-wire to weld a stainless stud to his stainless tank)
You could also try friction welding - put the screw in a mill or drill press. High RPM & lots of pressure. The heat generated is very localised. I've used it for welding studs in place (not on a cleaner though)
I've not seen a reasonably priced u/s cleaner that has cooling fans .. and I've had a few blow up on me ! So I think you have built a better machine than the off-the-shelf units. I may now rebuild on of my old dead "shells" using your specifications. Many thanks
Hi Bruce, I think the transducer falls from fatigue not from overload, so testing strength by applying a load is probably irrelevant. After seeing the first video I assumed maybe the bond had a small gap between them, it could cause: 1. The vibration of the transducer makes the trapped air compress and contract at a very high speed which causes micro fracture in the adhesive -> causes the transducer to fall 2. The adhesive that has been half failed causes the transducer to hit the tray repeatedly -> causes the transducer to heated up Keep it up! I'll be waiting for your next follow up video
I would add: 3. Shear stress in the glue layer due to the different temperatures and expansion of the transducers and tank. Squashing the glue thin would make this worse. As an aside I'm wondering about putting a couple of transducers under my sink bench to help with the dinner dishes!
Transducers operate on a solid state piezo-electric principle - Electrical Mechanical. Your gas grill pop ignitor generates an electrical current when a spring loaded rod hits the piezo material. An ultrasonic transducer operates in a reverse fashion. Applying an electric current at a specific frequency will cause the piezo material (the black discs in the stack) to expand and contract with the frequency of the electrical input. The transducer stack is tightly sandwiched together to a cap and cone metal components with a bolt. This is done to efficiently transfer the expansion/contraction mechanical energy to the entire transducer assembly. The conical metal part that is bonded to the tank is tuned to the frequency of the driver (40Khz or 25Khz) via its shape and size. The transducers must be able to transmit this mechanical energy through the tank wall and into the solution. There, the energy induced into the solution causes miniature low-pressure cavitation bubbles to form. The expansion and collapse of these miniature bubbles provide the mechanical action needed to clean the parts. The transducers MUST be intimately bonded to the tank wall. This bond must be strong enough to handle the vibration and/or solution heat. Many cheap ultrasonic cleaners now use an epoxy adhesive to bond the transducer to the tank wall. More industrial cleaners have the cone portion completely brazed (i.e. like silver solder) to the tank bottom. In fact, Branson Ultrasonics developed that brazed connection decades ago which caused them to recognized them as a leader in ultrasonic design and longevity. Now, with the advent of better adhesives, its possible to have a fairly decent durability with just an adhesive connection. Anyway, Bruce did a great job and I love the honest trial and error content.
Enjoyed this. The information you learned from troubleshooting the problems alone is worth its weight in gold. It does leave me wondering though if a tanks thickness makes any difference in cleaning efficiency. I am guessing it shouldn't but I also see that most the commercial tanks are pretty thin as well. Thanks for this.
I love how your wiring diagram is the equivelent of "just plug the things into the things, don't think about it" I don't think it's really a project that needs a wiring diagram
TIG welding (FUSE) or even silicone bronze filler is probably the best way to mount the transducers. If you are going to use silver solder make sure that you use silver solder flux!
@@enzofitzhume7320 same here . But as it's Mentioned here 👇for similar purpose - ua-cam.com/video/N-OPQ_s0G5c/v-deo.html I have seen other video with same "Nail wealding " title where I have seen tiny Nail like structure to the Surface of spot wealding object so that nail might have some purpose of being soldering martial between two object that seems logical to me . But not sure if this is the case for this name !
I wanted to make my own generator. And make full spool of wire as my coils and and such. But got so many almost free generators. . And time has ran out. War is this year. So things like this. I wanted to achieve. . I will give you coupons to vevor. Or just google vevor coupons. Before free shipping gone. Soon. I did see a guy tie a sander to side of bucket of zep cleaner. With a torch for heat. . ?? Lol but not over heat. Lol
Great follow up video! Soldering really seems to be a good alternative to welding. Though it'd be interesting so see their strenght compared over time under actual load. Because I do know that stainless steel welds have a tendency to easily crack under constant stress/vibration and soldering might have similar problems. I personally think drilling a hole and just straight up bolting the thing on would work just fine as well. You can get it watertight by just using a copper washer between screwhead and tank. If the screw is glued in it won't loosen from the vibrations either and screw connections are generally more resistant to stress and vibration compared to stainless steel welds. I'm certain the only reason the screw method isn't done commercially is because of the "unclean look" and the fact that a smooth container with no screw heads at the bottom is easier to clean.
I'm not so sure. Ultrasonic cleaning works by producing small bubbles through cavitation. These bubbles need nucleation sites to form. So ideally you would have a completely smooth tank and the nucleation sites are supplied by the part you've dropped in to clean. I'm not at all certain what creating a lot of rough surfaces *and* expecting them to stand up to damage for the entire lifetime of the tank would do. It's certainly not a sure bet.
@@paulie-g You do have a point! Tho I am in no way familiar enough with ultrasonic cleaners to actually make a valid rock solid statement here to determine if this would actually impact cleaning performance or harm the material over prolonged use. What I do know is that there are cavitation bubbles forming on ship propellers and those do infact eat up the material over time. So I guess it is infact something to consider.
@@Spark244 Cavitation is a big thing in engineering, but at least with ships you are budgeting for constant damage and replacement as everything marine rusts at astonishing rates. I just suspect that here you would be concentrating the problem in a very few places while leaching power. I don't think anyone will know for sure unless someone tests it because this isn't something that's easily modeled. The point being, it's likely the commercial products use smooth tanks for good reason.
Great video Bruce. I'd like to see you build a dining table sized tank with about 100 transducers (give or take) so you can clean about 18 (6 x 3) Mac II logic boards at once! Also, people should not get upset with you not providing diagrams of your work. After all, it's your build and you can choose if you want to share or not.
I’m surprised you said flux for the silver solder was recommended, but not required. Your advice about using generous amounts of flux in electronics soldering has made my simple excursions into electronics soldering far easier than before I took your advice to heart. If you can elaborate on it sometime that would be appreciated. Thanks for the tutorials!
Very informative video, I like it. I know your idea for the tank was easy & really a good starting place. You should look into Hammer forming your own tank. This will allow you to get the exact size you are looking for.
Sheet metal spot welder would do this also, like the kind a body shop would use to replace panels that looks like a large pinch clamp, one side on the bottom of the pan the other side on the bottom of the bolt, get it lined up and hit the foot pedal and instant bolt attachment. Silver soldering seems like the best alternative, just use flux and a little less heat to prevent distortion.
A bolt welding available to amateurs is friction welding: Clamp the bolt in a drill press' chuck and run it on the surface you want it to weld to until the contact surfaces get red hot, then stop the drill and keep pressure until cold. It goes without saying that you best try this on a sample piece first, to establish the best parameters. It still probably weakens the base material more than the silver solder method. You never mentioned this, but I think it is obvious that using the drivers with the epoxy cracked greatly reduces the sonic transducivity of the joint. I see the advantage of the bolts mostly in helping with installation of the tranducers, after that, the adhesive should really do the whole job.
UA-cam - would you like to watch a guy make a ultrasonic cleaner Me - sure why not Not a single shred of interest in making one but watched the whole thing. Very well put together video
Yeah, I can't help but feel that UA-cam has me marked as a quality tester or something. I consistently am shown random videos with sub-1000 views. I think to gauge whether to show other weird nerds like me.
@@EricLS This video, like the original, will probably reach few hundred thousand views, or even more, just give it a month or two. 🤣 In the mean time enjoy the channel, I found it because I had trouble fixing an ultrasonic cleaner, that I finally gave up on, and TIG welded (thanks to the hint in the comments of Branchus Creations' videos). The channel has actually been a really fun watch, especially if you like older computer hardware, mainly Macs. Also it's good to find new channels while they are a bit obscure, this one will inevitably blow up at some point, it's just too good not to.
I wonder how effective spot welding would be, for the bolt to the tank? Significantly more heat applied to a significantly smaller area. Less bowing of the tank, but you most likely would need to tack a couple of times to get enough of a secure bond. Often used to weld lipo batteries together into battery packs securely.
Those bolts supplied look like they were intended for a stud welder. Kinda like spot welding but meant to weld studs to things that a regular bolt would be impractical to use. Look up a stud welder.
Brilliant Bruce, well done. Thoroughly enjoyed your video and glad you now have a 'product' that suits your needs. I'm almost certain somebody would want to buy one😁
Just started watching this channel to learn how to repair a rare peavey guitar amp. The amp model is quite state of the art for being as old as it is but suffered from a factory flaw. When manufacturing they used a battery to hold memory and they bust and leak acid on the board eating all kinds of stuff up. I'm being told by the guy who sells a mod to fix a non leaked units that my amp is toast and that he's basically never been able to bring one back to life. But I going to attempt it anyways.
I have seen videos on DIY spot welder from old microwave oven transformer. I wonder if such could be reimagined to use for your studs. Also noted that the welded driver that tore the pan when you pulled it off, was the one you mentioned you'd burned a hole and patched same, when initially doing the weld. Probably weakened the pan at that time, otherwise it may have bent same as with the silver soldered join. Great video BTW. I've thought about making one myself, but don't have as much need as I am focused more on building electronic prototypes from scratch. 👍🤙
Acrylic structural adhesive may suit your needs if do build again. The most popular brand of thread locker has a line these types of adhesives I have used in manufacturing. Bonded metals typically have 6k psi tinsel strength. I don't know what the vibration will do to it but I am about to find out. These cleaners fail quickly for me. I purchased 4 since you made this video. I need one that doesn't break. It'll be fun to build one even if it costs more than a new cheap one. Thanks for inspiration.
If you could find a suitable tray, a tall, thin cleaner would be useful for pcbs, like a toaster. you could attach the transducers to the sides instead of the bottom. this might reduce the liquid volume and hence the power requirements.
Did you think about "Spot welding" it, with just electricity and a microwave transformer? I know it is creating a new machine in between but it is easy, economic and you can use it to weld battery packs in the future. I hope you get to create a great product. Thank you for being so thoughtful and detailed with your project!
I dont think it works, since the stud isn't a thin sheet of steel you can pointweld to another sheet, with two pointy copper elektrodes. Even if you're able to make a couple welds, they wouldn't be strong enough
Hi Bruce, what "I think" might be a problem with epoxy is that it needs air to cure. With two non breathable surfaces the epoxy in between could posssibly not cure properly, or take a really, really long time, leaving only the epoxy in direct contact with air to cure normally. A thick layer in between might help. Maybe a thin layer is always a problem ? I don't know for sure. I would be interested to see more epoxy tests to prove or disprove this (like project farm). Good luck with your projects.
Actually All Epoxy I have used does not need air. 2 parts mixed together react with each other. Epoxy does not "dry" it cures. The chemical reaction makes a new material which hopefully sticks to the material you are bonding. Or there is a rough surface suitable to create a mechanical bond. 80 Grit sandpaper would be appropriate for the application here.
when brazing, the stainless steel has time to anneal, therefor it has become softer stainless steel then it was new, hence causing it allmost imposible to tear or crack, a good point indeed, the ultrasonic vibrations when in use will workharden it but that takes forever with the water dampening it. Whe welding, the heat is short and intence, depending on the type of stainless, the short heatcycle even can harden the stainless steel localy, giving the steel a higher change to crack on load and even from the ultrasonic vibrations.
9:50 I didn't know that what I was looking for will be in your follow up video . Kind off about ungluing the transducer but with bolt and glue it will be impossible to separate I think .
Very nice series with a lot of information. I also do have a vevor one and clean mainly moto parts such as carburettors and cylinder heads (if they fit - normally not). Therefore I was always playing to build one myself. Which frequency would you suggest to clean such parts? You mentioned in the first video that lower frequencies would be better for such things. I am also wondering if it would be better to have more transducer in place for such cleaning operations.
Good video again but was surprised your circuit diagram didn’t show any earthing after your comments regarding the need for earthing. Those of us with medical equipment backgrounds are very into earthing and leakage currents. 😊
The UA-camr "Project Farm" tests a lot of "stuff" WITH measurements. Talks fast, but well worth a look... This is a great project!!! Arduino is awesome ..
I am trying to build my own ultrasonic cleaning, along very similar lines. However there are a few difference I would like to get your (and your viewers) advice on. 1) My cleaner is to be mounted to the wall (It is also a stainless steel kitchen sink). What is the best way to minimize the ultrasonic losses from this connection. If I use continuous metal - then this will transmit the sound from where I want it, to where I don't. If I use some rubber or silicone at the boundary this will absorb the sound which will reduce the efficiency and will generate heat. If I have an air gap, then I still need some way of holding the sink up, while creating a place that water can spill! 2) I would like to try to combine a vacuum chamber with an ultrasonic cleaner. Both are good ways of degassing epoxy or silicone rubber before putting them in a mold. Any advice on how to do the two together. A vacuum chamber needs to be strong. This means much thicker stainless steel and means any welds could be weak points. Thicker steel requires more power, Any advice on mitigating this. 3) Any advice on the drainage? I have been thinking that detachable drainage might be the way to go. That removes one source of energy loss. 4) Is it possible to combine 1-3 in one build?
Thank you for this. I had assumed it was the transformer (inductor) on the board that was causing my problems (noise fades after several 10's seconds, just buzzes rather than "sonicing"). Not only can I not find out how to determine what L a given inductor is supposed to be, I don't know how to measure that, what that failure mode might look like nor how to order a replacement... or upgraded item... so I'd more or less given up. I hadn't considered the transducer could fail - it's such a simple physical device... In terms of bolts, I've been looking into spot welding and come to the conclusion that it would work fine but that it's a ton of work. Then I was thinking about bolting through the tub... and ... leaks... What I am keen to try doing is taking a chunk of steel bar , drilling and tapping holes through it, attaching the transducers to that and then gluing that to the bottom of the tank and using bolts to reach around to the top with clips to hold it snug against the tank bottom.
As far as measuring the inductance of the transducers, I'd first try an LCR meter. Not sure if the transducers are in the range of any given LCR meter, but that would be my first try.
So much of this just highlights how using the cheapest parts available on reseller sites like Aliexpress is a recipe for hours of frustration. Using known good parts from known good sources might be significantly more expensive, but it's worth it to avoid all the troubleshooting.
You could try a plug weld (drill a hole, align the bolt on outside, weld a large bead on the inside over the hole and the material). That should let you get a decent weld without blowing through the thin stainless. You'll be welding onto the thickness of the bolt.
what a lovely video! thank you for this, but also want to ask something extra. as still feel somewhat unanswered or unknown question. which is nothing to do with your stuff in the video here. but since you have just become our collective industry expert in the field, it seems like you are now the right person to ask it to; my question is in regards to tank configurations / dimensions and effectiveness.... see when we are shopping around for ultrasonic cleaners the big question always is what size to get. and it seems like the optimum size is nearly always long in 1 dimension. then either narrow and taller. or wider and then more shallow. this is either because we want to save on desk space / the device footprint. since these things are pretty bulky. or it is instead because we do not want to have to fill up and use too much liquid into the tank. not to have the water level higher than necessary for convenience it filling it up or moving it. or for a given chosen tank volume and hence purchase price. however the vast majority of ultrasonic tanks being sold appear to be long in 1 dimension. and then approx the same in both the width and height. which is generally less ideal for the typical shape of pcbs. which are of course flat rectangles. and we don't want to angle our pcbs diagonally because that is then a huge volumetric waste of cleaning liquid. so my question is clearly to try to find out why the ultrasonic manufacturers do that. because the reason is not known. but it could be for one of several reasons. and this then informs both our purchasing choices. and also the tank design for a self built device. it could be (for example) that these are being sold mostly for general purpose parts cleaning. with pcbs being a minority usage. then those tank dimensions would make more sense for other random parts which are normally not flat pcbs. car engine parts for example. or it could be because the ultrasonic waves need a certain volume of water to be more effective. wheras a too shallow depth of water would cause the waves to reflect back down from the water surface. and just not work as well for the shallow water scenario or conversely it could be because the 'deep and narrow' configuration is too narrow, for example for a single row of standard sized transducers. again to work most effectively. without problems with the waves being reflected back off the side walls or it could be because deep and narrow stainless food trays are not common. or more expensive and difficult to manufacture or get good cheap supply of? wheras shallow food trays also dont offer the same band for buck perhaps when they can sell for more dollars a higher volumetric capacity unit with the same number of transducers and parts cost in it etc. in other words market forces and customers comparing units by volume capacity class... and then always the more regular shaped tubs wins with the lower bom cost to manufacture i suppose there could be other reasons too. but you get the picture. clearly it would be helpful to uncover some answers here. to be better informed and not end up with making the wrong decision. whilst also not being lumbered with a machine that is more bulky and takes up too much more space than is actually necessary. would be pretty helpful anyhow thanks for this follow up video. learned a lot from it. very grateful & well done for being so clear about all of it. very good troubleshooting and test methodology. kind regards
You may have done this and/or already suggested but just in case, before epoxying surfaces should be scuffed up with course grit paper, rougher the better.
I honestly don't know why so many people are in an unreasonable love with JBWeld. It is okay-ish for a lot but - like WD40 - not really great at anything. It is - in all honesty - just an epoxy with metal powder stirred in. Can be good, can be bad.
Hello I have better suggestion for you to test this idea of Manny transducers cancelling each other which mainly caused by phase difference between many drivers .... For testing try this.... Make differential transformer by winding 3 different coil on same torroid and connect two coils with two Drivers in opposite polarity ( depend on winding directions ) with current limiting resistor and connect 3 coil to led with resistor or any measuring device so if both have same phase ( if powered simultaneously ) it should cancel each other otherwise if phase isn't the same than led connected with 3rd coil will glow because un cancelled wave induce current in the 3rd coil so it will help to check the phase difference of board but for transduser , you could use other transduser as receiver and check if signal amplitude increase whenever you add transmitter transduser in parallel or not ! All this test can be done with low power for better control .
Very interesting. Apropos the attachment of the transducers to the tank. Considering the tank manufacturers actually just use an adhesive to attach the their transducers, can I suggest you talk to an industrial adhesive manufacturer, like Loctite or Scotch, explain your problem and allow them to suggest a suitable adhesive and preparation regime? I always feel it's best to ask the experts, they've usually done it before? Additionally, spot welding the studs would work well also?
I think the cause of aluminum foil perforation is using 40 kHz transducers. Perhaps you could use 100 kHz or 132 kHz transducers for your next cleaner to reduce the damage. I imagine that some capacitors on the motherboards wouldn't like to be "penetration tested"
If I was going to tackle this project I'd drill through the tank, drop in a few stainless steel blind-hole nutserts to suit and use some allthread to mount the transducers. No welding needed... But you'd need the nut insert tool. A dab of silicone at the joints should keep it watertight.
thank you for the infomation. im a car builder and i want a way to build a tot tank that i can out axles housings in to get the super clean and with help of another video and yours i think i have come up with the plan. now i have to get it on paper.
Thanks for this Ultrasound cleaner series. I have had a very similar fight for a long period of time. My transducers also fell off one by one, and I also didn't weld or solder the threaded rods to the tank. I will now silver solder them. I also fried the generator a couple of times. One question: You diagnosed the defective transducers by their working temperature. Now that you KNOW which ones fail, are you able to maybe measure their impedance or resistance to see if they also differ in these values depending on if they are defective or not?
Does the shape and overall dimensions of the tub factor into the transducer placement - outside of just the number of them needed for the total volume of water?
I can't answer this with complete certainty, but the placement of the transducers is about trying to evenly distribute the sound around the whole tank. A bit like trying to place small speakers in a room so that you can clearly hear a sound no matter where you stand in that room.
i know very little about ultrasonic cleaners and even less about transducers but i do quite a bit of welding my perferd method is gas welding also know as oxy acetylene welding a regular oxy acet torch is what i weld most anything together with unless its really thick and i got a big machine that does heliarc or smaw but most of my welding these days is done with a harris torch with a standard mixer and whatever size tip. its alot cheaper than using tig and i have welded the crazyist things known to mankind such as welding a cast iron pipe fitting to a stainless banjo fitting i once welded a motorcycle carburetor float post. stainless will require a flux to unless you want to use mild steel filler then not necessary. cast aluminum is the biggest pain in the ass to weld cus of all the contaminants in the cast a tig would be best for this but is still a serious pain to weld ive welded whole vehicles this way and the only 2 accepted ways of welding aircraft frames is gas welding and tig welding so if you got a few dollars to spare on a torch and tanks you could probably get a set up goin for less than 400 usd but i dont know what the availability is like down under either. but like you found out silver soldering / brazing is over kill for something like this in the good ole days most body shops brazed vehicles together and it will hold even to the point of ripping 18 ga steel the bond will be unfazed im surprised you didnt use a pid for the water temp in the beginning with the analog timer if i build one it would use a timer like that just for reliability sake that and i dont know much about electronics
First thing I thought of when I watched your original video - buy a manufactured ultrasonic that meets your wattage needs and modify to suit. Far less headache and probably wouldn't have cost much if any more.
You could drill a minuscule hole and add a point of solder to breach the hole and hold the bolt in position from the inside, then solder the outside without it moving
7:04 yes it's right choice because .... I have seen USC manufacturer UA-camr answering someone's comment about glue , and it was indeed araldite with temperature rating of 120C M
Now if you can program into the Arduino some pwm flex you will have a really awesome diy project that competes with pro-grade. Sweep and degassing would be nice too.😊
When you said you had no means of turning the mechanical timer off once you started it, you never tried just turning the knob back counter clockwise? Literally every mechanical timer I've ever encountered either at home or hotels for heat lamps can be overridden in this manner. That said, the Arduino method along with your other control is a nice addition.
I think the main reason the drilling and bolting isn't used is because at any kind of medium to large production scale the production cost matters a lot more than in a one off project. Welding is just cheaper at scale.
An automotive gasket sealent can withstand extremely high temperatures in the 1000s depending on the quality. In addition, it has a little more flex but is a very strong adhesive. This flex could help prevent the separation of the adhesive. As a contractor I've experimented with a wide variety of adhesives. Automotive gasket sealant had unique properties that makes them different from many adhesives. You can even use it to seal holes in freezer sids walls because it does not freeze in freezing temperatures and maintains it's adhesive properties.
I investigated silastic sealants early on, but unfortunately the flex reduces the efficiency of the transducer. The adhesive needs to be rigid as it plays a big part in transferring the waves through to the tank.
Very Good video Sir... I have a 3liter cleaner, but I will going to need a bigger one.. I am thinking on using it's parts(circuit board, transduser,display), adding some more transduser and circuit board on a bigger tank. Is it possible?
My transducer seems not to have a real polarity as the signal is feed from the transformer and a coupling capacitor so no real connection with the live. I just make sure the parallel set is paired with the the same polarity scheme. Not to the driver itself. Still on the way to build a box but I think will build two boxes apart, one for the driver and another for the pair. Simple ultrasonic cleaner anyway with just one pair of transducers also silver brazed. Will also add a timer from Aliexpress which allows programming on off periods and a fan. If you have oscilloscope you can tune the oscillation frequency to the driver by changing which output one of the transformers is in use and maximizes the voltage output wave (changing the inductance changes the resonance frequency). These chinese drivers have a short which can be changed in between the different pins of the transformer thus changing the inductance of the output circuit.
Hi, do the transducers work when secured only with the solder but without the epoxy? Or are both the Silver solder and the epoxy necessary for the sound waves to be transmitted?
Hello Bruce. If you decide to build a larger USC, why not build one large enough to lay an entire Power Mac 9500 inside it? You'd probably be able to put anything you wanted into a tub that size.
I wish I would have seen this video before trying to fix my ultrasonic cleaner. I bought one off of a web site and didn't realize one of the two transducers had detached. I just reattached it with JB Weld and tried it out with the tinfoil test. Only 1 side made holes so it looks like the transducer is dead. Would there be any issue running the cleaner with just one transducer, other than it taking longer to clean?
It might be a good idea to passivate the area of the tank that was discolored on the inside. Acid is I believe how you do that. Pickling gel or something like will passivate the surface so you don't end up with rust.
I just revived a 30K usc and it doesn’t seem to like having the heater and transducers on at the same time. Also, do you think depth of water/fluid has an impact on the efficiency of the cleaning?
If I run this ultrasonic with little or no water in it, the cleaner uses way more power and the drivers generate more heat. It's definitely not good to do. I know of someone else who regularly tried running his cleaner with the tank less than half full, and it killed the cleaner. It's important to have the tank filled to the recommended amount.
Great build and discovery! Suggestion: Don't epoxy the transducer to the surface of the tank, instead use some threadlocker to attach it to the bolt. This way you can replace a transducer if needed by unscrewing it.
Every aspect of DIY is thought over meticulously after confronting the problem. The description alas is fantastic
The flux I would consider essential. I use silver solder frequently with stainless items, and the flux makes the solder flow and stick much better than without.
and also its just a simple thing. not exactly breaking the bank on flux... Not a corner worth cutting. 👍
Amazing patience with trial and error. Thank you 🙏
Now that is dedication, I simply wanted to trouble shoot a possible dud transducer, started with your first video and was instantly grateful for your efforts. Both these videos were brilliant and went through some of the practical solutions I was about to attempt. Genuinely impressed with your scientific and engineering rigor. I'll be watching your videos in the future. Much respect.
A good idea when brazing a stud like this onto thin sheet is to put a thick backing plate against the back side of the sheet.
It'll soak up any excess heat and help stop any warping.
very methodical workmanship and straight talking - keep it up mate
That solder test was hecka punckrock!♡ luv it
If you ever read this... I am new and experimenting as well, and i recently got told about resistance soldering. Seems to me, that method would work even better than silver soldering in this case!
I am discovering that for me, TOOLS really is my hobby haha♡ be well :)
Great work, lots of discovery there, really interesting for me (my company makes transducers). I couldn’t see if you prepared the tank surface. You increase the adhesive strength a lot if you sandblast or roughen the surfaces. This gives the adhesive a larger area and surface features to key into.
Pulling the transducers when the one surface can flex with result in a weaker bond, more like a peel test.
Every transducer has its own frequency, not always exactly the same but close. Because they are so narrow-band, you could be closer to the resonance on some transducers than others, it will work harder and get hotter if it’s closer to resonance.
As for the polarity, it does not matter, transducers are insensitive to polarity but if you put 2 near each other it would be preferable to match polarity so that they drive the same way. If you parallel two transducers they definitely need their polarity matched. Also, the front and back metal blocks of the transducer are connected to one of the wires so you may get “live” voltages on the tank. Hopefully the electronics has its output electrically isolated so this won’t be an issue. How well the output is isolated is the real question, is it safe? I seriously doubt they have safety approval ratings on the electronics and considering the high voltages involved, this can become dangerous.
Another important thing to realize about the wiring, if you’ve screwed the transducers to the metal tank, they make good electrical contact and so all transducer negatives are connected together. Might save on some wiring if you want to use the tanks as the single negative connection. I don’t recommend this though, but realize that the tank is electrically live. If you connect one transducer the wrong way, … big short.
That was just 10/10 YouTubing. Amazing stuff. Thanks man
As many have mentioned, flux will make it much easier to flow the solder and get a reliable bond. If it is soft solder, the plumbing torch is a bit overkill and will make heat management a bit tricky for the thin wall tank. One of those pocket butane torch lighters would work perfectly. Stainless heat soaks very easily due to very low thermal conductivity, so less heat than you think and a bit of patience is best to let it come up to temperature without creating hot spots. If it starts to glow, it is definitely way too hot for soft solder. The small pencil flame of a butane torch lighter would help make it easier to focus the heat primarily on the stud and just flick the flame off to the tank just enough to bring up the temperature to where the flux starts cleaning. Getting solder flowing on the stud will help conduct heat into the tank and flow it to the tank without too much heat deformation from too much direct heat. Just before glowing is about good brazing temperature for a Harris stay silv brazing filler if you are doing it that way.
Props to the seller, lots of AliExpress sellers have basically zero support.
Thanks so much for the follow up ^_^ really appreciate you sharing what you've learnt with everyone. Good to know you solved overheating problems
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I like that t-shirt. English for Spanish speakers.😂
Greetings from Spain
Thanks for this follow-up video! I'm definitely going to build my own knowing how to fix the issues you had earlier.
Ultra-sonic cleaning improves almost everything I use it for. Even in plating processes, it causes the build to be more diverse and compacted. You can also add a sonic horn and other techniques to the ultra-sonic without causing harmful effects to each process. I was going to name all of the functions it improves, but there are just too many. Whether its medical equipment, automotive, industrial cleaning, high-tech production parts, surface polishing, and plating, etc........ Wiring , welding, width of wall thickness are all super important. Most of the liquids used in the US, are wetting agents to help wet the solution to an altered state of slipperiness. This makes the dislodging of the smallest particles very easy.
Very helpful testing! I was convinced that brazing would be good and I was sure that welding would fare better than silver solder. It's a good thing you did this testing. Thank you.
Actually, that comes down to the degree of heating, and the heating+cooling cycle.
Because welding heats up the metal a bit more localized, and far hotter, to regain maximum strength in the area, the steel actually needs to be re-annealed.
Annealing is the process of heating the steel up enough to cause crystal-reordering (usually just heating it until "ruby red" is plenty); then cooling it SLOWLY, to avoid "quench hardening" as it cools.
In this case, placing a piece of kao-wool inside the pan; then heating the stud with the propane torch until it just started to glow; finally placing a second piece of the insulation over the stud & lave overnight, would be a relatively low cost+complexity way to improve the weld-strength (assuming, ofc, that he was using stainless fill wire & didn't corrupt the steel by using normal, mild-steel fill-wire to weld a stainless stud to his stainless tank)
You could also try friction welding - put the screw in a mill or drill press. High RPM & lots of pressure. The heat generated is very localised. I've used it for welding studs in place (not on a cleaner though)
Another GREAT video!
Omg i LOVE this soo much!
Thank you for making these videos!
I've not seen a reasonably priced u/s cleaner that has cooling fans .. and I've had a few blow up on me ! So I think you have built a better machine than the off-the-shelf units. I may now rebuild on of my old dead "shells" using your specifications. Many thanks
Bruce always fun and always informative, if I ever build my own tank I will know what to do thanks to your journey of discovery!
Hi Bruce, I think the transducer falls from fatigue not from overload, so testing strength by applying a load is probably irrelevant. After seeing the first video I assumed maybe the bond had a small gap between them, it could cause:
1. The vibration of the transducer makes the trapped air compress and contract at a very high speed which causes micro fracture in the adhesive -> causes the transducer to fall
2. The adhesive that has been half failed causes the transducer to hit the tray repeatedly -> causes the transducer to heated up
Keep it up! I'll be waiting for your next follow up video
I would add: 3. Shear stress in the glue layer due to the different temperatures and expansion of the transducers and tank. Squashing the glue thin would make this worse.
As an aside I'm wondering about putting a couple of transducers under my sink bench to help with the dinner dishes!
Transducers operate on a solid state piezo-electric principle - Electrical Mechanical. Your gas grill pop ignitor generates an electrical current when a spring loaded rod hits the piezo material. An ultrasonic transducer operates in a reverse fashion. Applying an electric current at a specific frequency will cause the piezo material (the black discs in the stack) to expand and contract with the frequency of the electrical input. The transducer stack is tightly sandwiched together to a cap and cone metal components with a bolt. This is done to efficiently transfer the expansion/contraction mechanical energy to the entire transducer assembly.
The conical metal part that is bonded to the tank is tuned to the frequency of the driver (40Khz or 25Khz) via its shape and size. The transducers must be able to transmit this mechanical energy through the tank wall and into the solution. There, the energy induced into the solution causes miniature low-pressure cavitation bubbles to form. The expansion and collapse of these miniature bubbles provide the mechanical action needed to clean the parts. The transducers MUST be intimately bonded to the tank wall. This bond must be strong enough to handle the vibration and/or solution heat.
Many cheap ultrasonic cleaners now use an epoxy adhesive to bond the transducer to the tank wall. More industrial cleaners have the cone portion completely brazed (i.e. like silver solder) to the tank bottom. In fact, Branson Ultrasonics developed that brazed connection decades ago which caused them to recognized them as a leader in ultrasonic design and longevity. Now, with the advent of better adhesives, its possible to have a fairly decent durability with just an adhesive connection.
Anyway, Bruce did a great job and I love the honest trial and error content.
@@ljsmith99 can you advise upon a specific adhesive? thanks!
Enjoyed this. The information you learned from troubleshooting the problems alone is worth its weight in gold. It does leave me wondering though if a tanks thickness makes any difference in cleaning efficiency. I am guessing it shouldn't but I also see that most the commercial tanks are pretty thin as well. Thanks for this.
Very useful series. Thanks for all your trouble.
I love how your wiring diagram is the equivelent of "just plug the things into the things, don't think about it"
I don't think it's really a project that needs a wiring diagram
Agree, If you needed this diagram, you probably should be getting assistance from someone who knows more than you.
Fantastic! A must watch video! Thanks again for sharing!
TIG welding (FUSE) or even silicone bronze filler is probably the best way to mount the transducers. If you are going to use silver solder make sure that you use silver solder flux!
... and what is Nail wealding ?
@@omsingharjit Never heard of nail welding. Are thinking of spot welding? This might work for Bruce's project.
@@enzofitzhume7320 same here .
But as it's Mentioned here 👇for similar purpose -
ua-cam.com/video/N-OPQ_s0G5c/v-deo.html
I have seen other video with same "Nail wealding " title where I have seen tiny Nail like structure to the Surface of spot wealding object so that nail might have some purpose of being soldering martial between two object that seems logical to me . But not sure if this is the case for this name !
I wanted to make my own generator. And make full spool of wire as my coils and and such. But got so many almost free generators. . And time has ran out. War is this year. So things like this. I wanted to achieve. . I will give you coupons to vevor. Or just google vevor coupons. Before free shipping gone. Soon. I did see a guy tie a sander to side of bucket of zep cleaner. With a torch for heat. . ?? Lol but not over heat. Lol
@@enzofitzhume7320 not bothering with the other guy, but he might be referring to stud welders, like those used in auto body to pull dents.
Thank you. Now that the bugs are worked out, it's time to watch the video series, make a parts list and let the fun begin.
Great follow up video! Soldering really seems to be a good alternative to welding. Though it'd be interesting so see their strenght compared over time under actual load. Because I do know that stainless steel welds have a tendency to easily crack under constant stress/vibration and soldering might have similar problems. I personally think drilling a hole and just straight up bolting the thing on would work just fine as well. You can get it watertight by just using a copper washer between screwhead and tank. If the screw is glued in it won't loosen from the vibrations either and screw connections are generally more resistant to stress and vibration compared to stainless steel welds. I'm certain the only reason the screw method isn't done commercially is because of the "unclean look" and the fact that a smooth container with no screw heads at the bottom is easier to clean.
Or you could just buy a cheep welder, watch some YT, realise you don't need the weld to look like stacked dimes to be good, and fucking weld it.
I'm not so sure. Ultrasonic cleaning works by producing small bubbles through cavitation. These bubbles need nucleation sites to form. So ideally you would have a completely smooth tank and the nucleation sites are supplied by the part you've dropped in to clean. I'm not at all certain what creating a lot of rough surfaces *and* expecting them to stand up to damage for the entire lifetime of the tank would do. It's certainly not a sure bet.
@@paulie-g You do have a point! Tho I am in no way familiar enough with ultrasonic cleaners to actually make a valid rock solid statement here to determine if this would actually impact cleaning performance or harm the material over prolonged use. What I do know is that there are cavitation bubbles forming on ship propellers and those do infact eat up the material over time. So I guess it is infact something to consider.
@@Spark244 Cavitation is a big thing in engineering, but at least with ships you are budgeting for constant damage and replacement as everything marine rusts at astonishing rates. I just suspect that here you would be concentrating the problem in a very few places while leaching power. I don't think anyone will know for sure unless someone tests it because this isn't something that's easily modeled. The point being, it's likely the commercial products use smooth tanks for good reason.
Great Job Bruce Good Follow Up
Great video Bruce. I'd like to see you build a dining table sized tank with about 100 transducers (give or take) so you can clean about 18 (6 x 3) Mac II logic boards at once!
Also, people should not get upset with you not providing diagrams of your work. After all, it's your build and you can choose if you want to share or not.
Nice content, Bruce👍
I’m surprised you said flux for the silver solder was recommended, but not required. Your advice about using generous amounts of flux in electronics soldering has made my simple excursions into electronics soldering far easier than before I took your advice to heart. If you can elaborate on it sometime that would be appreciated. Thanks for the tutorials!
I thought the silver solder had flux in it, but it doesn't. So yes, use flux!
Very informative video, I like it. I know your idea for the tank was easy & really a good starting place. You should look into Hammer forming your own tank. This will allow you to get the exact size you are looking for.
Great work, thanks!
Thanks for doing the work Bruce, this is a great diy resource!
Sheet metal spot welder would do this also, like the kind a body shop would use to replace panels that looks like a large pinch clamp, one side on the bottom of the pan the other side on the bottom of the bolt, get it lined up and hit the foot pedal and instant bolt attachment. Silver soldering seems like the best alternative, just use flux and a little less heat to prevent distortion.
anddddd they can be built very easily with an old M.O.T. (Microwave Oven Transformer).
Super helpful video!
A bolt welding available to amateurs is friction welding: Clamp the bolt in a drill press' chuck and run it on the surface you want it to weld to until the contact surfaces get red hot, then stop the drill and keep pressure until cold. It goes without saying that you best try this on a sample piece first, to establish the best parameters.
It still probably weakens the base material more than the silver solder method.
You never mentioned this, but I think it is obvious that using the drivers with the epoxy cracked greatly reduces the sonic transducivity of the joint. I see the advantage of the bolts mostly in helping with installation of the tranducers, after that, the adhesive should really do the whole job.
If you want to do more flux core wire welding on thick materials in the future, you can swap out the bulky mig tip for a flux tip.
UA-cam - would you like to watch a guy make a ultrasonic cleaner
Me - sure why not
Not a single shred of interest in making one but watched the whole thing. Very well put together video
Yeah, I can't help but feel that UA-cam has me marked as a quality tester or something. I consistently am shown random videos with sub-1000 views. I think to gauge whether to show other weird nerds like me.
@@EricLS This video, like the original, will probably reach few hundred thousand views, or even more, just give it a month or two. 🤣 In the mean time enjoy the channel, I found it because I had trouble fixing an ultrasonic cleaner, that I finally gave up on, and TIG welded (thanks to the hint in the comments of Branchus Creations' videos). The channel has actually been a really fun watch, especially if you like older computer hardware, mainly Macs. Also it's good to find new channels while they are a bit obscure, this one will inevitably blow up at some point, it's just too good not to.
Thank you!
I wonder how effective spot welding would be, for the bolt to the tank? Significantly more heat applied to a significantly smaller area. Less bowing of the tank, but you most likely would need to tack a couple of times to get enough of a secure bond. Often used to weld lipo batteries together into battery packs securely.
Those bolts supplied look like they were intended for a stud welder. Kinda like spot welding but meant to weld studs to things that a regular bolt would be impractical to use. Look up a stud welder.
Brilliant Bruce, well done. Thoroughly enjoyed your video and glad you now have a 'product' that suits your needs. I'm almost certain somebody would want to buy one😁
Just started watching this channel to learn how to repair a rare peavey guitar amp. The amp model is quite state of the art for being as old as it is but suffered from a factory flaw. When manufacturing they used a battery to hold memory and they bust and leak acid on the board eating all kinds of stuff up. I'm being told by the guy who sells a mod to fix a non leaked units that my amp is toast and that he's basically never been able to bring one back to life. But I going to attempt it anyways.
Fantastic build and an amazing work there! Very well done! 5*
I have seen videos on DIY spot welder from old microwave oven transformer. I wonder if such could be reimagined to use for your studs. Also noted that the welded driver that tore the pan when you pulled it off, was the one you mentioned you'd burned a hole and patched same, when initially doing the weld. Probably weakened the pan at that time, otherwise it may have bent same as with the silver soldered join. Great video BTW. I've thought about making one myself, but don't have as much need as I am focused more on building electronic prototypes from scratch. 👍🤙
Acrylic structural adhesive may suit your needs if do build again. The most popular brand of thread locker has a line these types of adhesives I have used in manufacturing. Bonded metals typically have 6k psi tinsel strength. I don't know what the vibration will do to it but I am about to find out. These cleaners fail quickly for me. I purchased 4 since you made this video. I need one that doesn't break. It'll be fun to build one even if it costs more than a new cheap one. Thanks for inspiration.
If you could find a suitable tray, a tall, thin cleaner would be useful for pcbs, like a toaster. you could attach the transducers to the sides instead of the bottom. this might reduce the liquid volume and hence the power requirements.
Use a capacitor discharge stud welder they are specifically designed for those studs
Dang! Well done Bruce
Did you think about "Spot welding" it, with just electricity and a microwave transformer? I know it is creating a new machine in between but it is easy, economic and you can use it to weld battery packs in the future. I hope you get to create a great product. Thank you for being so thoughtful and detailed with your project!
I dont think it works, since the stud isn't a thin sheet of steel you can pointweld to another sheet, with two pointy copper elektrodes. Even if you're able to make a couple welds, they wouldn't be strong enough
Hi Bruce, what "I think" might be a problem with epoxy is that it needs air to cure.
With two non breathable surfaces the epoxy in between could posssibly not cure properly, or take a really, really long time, leaving only the epoxy in direct contact with air to cure normally. A thick layer in between might help. Maybe a thin layer is always a problem ?
I don't know for sure.
I would be interested to see more epoxy tests to prove or disprove this (like project farm).
Good luck with your projects.
Actually All Epoxy I have used does not need air. 2 parts mixed together react with each other. Epoxy does not "dry" it cures. The chemical reaction makes a new material which hopefully sticks to the material you are bonding. Or there is a rough surface suitable to create a mechanical bond. 80 Grit sandpaper would be appropriate for the application here.
when brazing, the stainless steel has time to anneal, therefor it has become softer stainless steel then it was new, hence causing it allmost imposible to tear or crack, a good point indeed, the ultrasonic vibrations when in use will workharden it but that takes forever with the water dampening it.
Whe welding, the heat is short and intence, depending on the type of stainless, the short heatcycle even can harden the stainless steel localy, giving the steel a higher change to crack on load and even from the ultrasonic vibrations.
This are great videos. Thank you.
9:50 I didn't know that what I was looking for will be in your follow up video .
Kind off about ungluing the transducer but with bolt and glue it will be impossible to separate I think .
Very nice series with a lot of information. I also do have a vevor one and clean mainly moto parts such as carburettors and cylinder heads (if they fit - normally not). Therefore I was always playing to build one myself. Which frequency would you suggest to clean such parts? You mentioned in the first video that lower frequencies would be better for such things.
I am also wondering if it would be better to have more transducer in place for such cleaning operations.
Good video again but was surprised your circuit diagram didn’t show any earthing after your comments regarding the need for earthing. Those of us with medical equipment backgrounds are very into earthing and leakage currents. 😊
The UA-camr "Project Farm" tests a lot of "stuff" WITH measurements.
Talks fast, but well worth a look...
This is a great project!!! Arduino is awesome ..
I am trying to build my own ultrasonic cleaning, along very similar lines. However there are a few difference I would like to get your (and your viewers) advice on.
1) My cleaner is to be mounted to the wall (It is also a stainless steel kitchen sink). What is the best way to minimize the ultrasonic losses from this connection. If I use continuous metal - then this will transmit the sound from where I want it, to where I don't. If I use some rubber or silicone at the boundary this will absorb the sound which will reduce the efficiency and will generate heat. If I have an air gap, then I still need some way of holding the sink up, while creating a place that water can spill!
2) I would like to try to combine a vacuum chamber with an ultrasonic cleaner. Both are good ways of degassing epoxy or silicone rubber before putting them in a mold. Any advice on how to do the two together.
A vacuum chamber needs to be strong. This means much thicker stainless steel and means any welds could be weak points. Thicker steel requires more power, Any advice on mitigating this.
3) Any advice on the drainage? I have been thinking that detachable drainage might be the way to go. That removes one source of energy loss.
4) Is it possible to combine 1-3 in one build?
Thank you for this.
I had assumed it was the transformer (inductor) on the board that was causing my problems (noise fades after several 10's seconds, just buzzes rather than "sonicing"). Not only can I not find out how to determine what L a given inductor is supposed to be, I don't know how to measure that, what that failure mode might look like nor how to order a replacement... or upgraded item...
so I'd more or less given up.
I hadn't considered the transducer could fail - it's such a simple physical device...
In terms of bolts, I've been looking into spot welding and come to the conclusion that it would work fine but that it's a ton of work. Then I was thinking about bolting through the tub... and ... leaks...
What I am keen to try doing is taking a chunk of steel bar , drilling and tapping holes through it, attaching the transducers to that and then gluing that to the bottom of the tank and using bolts to reach around to the top with clips to hold it snug against the tank bottom.
As far as measuring the inductance of the transducers, I'd first try an LCR meter. Not sure if the transducers are in the range of any given LCR meter, but that would be my first try.
5:08 can you explain this specific wealding for same purpose I seen on marketing video that it's nail wealding ..!
So what is nail wealding ?
So much of this just highlights how using the cheapest parts available on reseller sites like Aliexpress is a recipe for hours of frustration. Using known good parts from known good sources might be significantly more expensive, but it's worth it to avoid all the troubleshooting.
For lower thermals, make sure they use low Rds-on driver FETs.
You could try a plug weld (drill a hole, align the bolt on outside, weld a large bead on the inside over the hole and the material). That should let you get a decent weld without blowing through the thin stainless. You'll be welding onto the thickness of the bolt.
Plug welding would work if you used stainless wire or filler rod. Assuming he transducer threaded lug is stainless or it will rust!
what a lovely video! thank you for this,
but also want to ask something extra. as still feel somewhat unanswered or unknown question. which is nothing to do with your stuff in the video here. but since you have just become our collective industry expert in the field, it seems like you are now the right person to ask it to;
my question is in regards to tank configurations / dimensions and effectiveness.... see when we are shopping around for ultrasonic cleaners the big question always is what size to get. and it seems like the optimum size is nearly always long in 1 dimension. then either narrow and taller. or wider and then more shallow. this is either because we want to save on desk space / the device footprint. since these things are pretty bulky. or it is instead because we do not want to have to fill up and use too much liquid into the tank. not to have the water level higher than necessary for convenience it filling it up or moving it. or for a given chosen tank volume and hence purchase price.
however the vast majority of ultrasonic tanks being sold appear to be long in 1 dimension. and then approx the same in both the width and height. which is generally less ideal for the typical shape of pcbs. which are of course flat rectangles. and we don't want to angle our pcbs diagonally because that is then a huge volumetric waste of cleaning liquid.
so my question is clearly to try to find out why the ultrasonic manufacturers do that. because the reason is not known. but it could be for one of several reasons. and this then informs both our purchasing choices. and also the tank design for a self built device.
it could be (for example) that these are being sold mostly for general purpose parts cleaning. with pcbs being a minority usage. then those tank dimensions would make more sense for other random parts which are normally not flat pcbs. car engine parts for example.
or it could be because the ultrasonic waves need a certain volume of water to be more effective. wheras a too shallow depth of water would cause the waves to reflect back down from the water surface. and just not work as well for the shallow water scenario
or conversely it could be because the 'deep and narrow' configuration is too narrow, for example for a single row of standard sized transducers. again to work most effectively. without problems with the waves being reflected back off the side walls
or it could be because deep and narrow stainless food trays are not common. or more expensive and difficult to manufacture or get good cheap supply of? wheras shallow food trays also dont offer the same band for buck perhaps when they can sell for more dollars a higher volumetric capacity unit with the same number of transducers and parts cost in it etc. in other words market forces and customers comparing units by volume capacity class... and then always the more regular shaped tubs wins with the lower bom cost to manufacture
i suppose there could be other reasons too. but you get the picture. clearly it would be helpful to uncover some answers here. to be better informed and not end up with making the wrong decision. whilst also not being lumbered with a machine that is more bulky and takes up too much more space than is actually necessary. would be pretty helpful
anyhow thanks for this follow up video. learned a lot from it. very grateful & well done for being so clear about all of it. very good troubleshooting and test methodology. kind regards
You may have done this and/or already suggested but just in case, before epoxying surfaces should be scuffed up with course grit paper, rougher the better.
I honestly don't know why so many people are in an unreasonable love with JBWeld. It is okay-ish for a lot but - like WD40 - not really great at anything.
It is - in all honesty - just an epoxy with metal powder stirred in. Can be good, can be bad.
Hello I have better suggestion for you to test this idea of Manny transducers cancelling each other which mainly caused by phase difference between many drivers ....
For testing try this....
Make differential transformer by winding 3 different coil on same torroid and connect two coils with two Drivers in opposite polarity ( depend on winding directions ) with current limiting resistor and connect 3 coil to led with resistor or any measuring device so if both have same phase ( if powered simultaneously ) it should cancel each other otherwise if phase isn't the same than led connected with 3rd coil will glow because un cancelled wave induce current in the 3rd coil so it will help to check the phase difference of board but for transduser , you could use other transduser as receiver and check if signal amplitude increase whenever you add transmitter transduser in parallel or not ! All this test can be done with low power for better control .
Very interesting. Apropos the attachment of the transducers to the tank. Considering the tank manufacturers actually just use an adhesive to attach the their transducers, can I suggest you talk to an industrial adhesive manufacturer, like Loctite or Scotch, explain your problem and allow them to suggest a suitable adhesive and preparation regime? I always feel it's best to ask the experts, they've usually done it before? Additionally, spot welding the studs would work well also?
I think the cause of aluminum foil perforation is using 40 kHz transducers. Perhaps you could use 100 kHz or 132 kHz transducers for your next cleaner to reduce the damage. I imagine that some capacitors on the motherboards wouldn't like to be "penetration tested"
If I was going to tackle this project I'd drill through the tank, drop in a few stainless steel blind-hole nutserts to suit and use some allthread to mount the transducers.
No welding needed... But you'd need the nut insert tool.
A dab of silicone at the joints should keep it watertight.
Wow, you can now go into business as an industrial scale denture cleaning service!
You'll be rich!! 👍😃
thank you for the infomation. im a car builder and i want a way to build a tot tank that i can out axles housings in to get the super clean and with help of another video and yours i think i have come up with the plan. now i have to get it on paper.
These are great videos. The transducers are already threaded. Why not bolt them onto the pan???
Thanks for this Ultrasound cleaner series. I have had a very similar fight for a long period of time. My transducers also fell off one by one, and I also didn't weld or solder the threaded rods to the tank. I will now silver solder them. I also fried the generator a couple of times.
One question: You diagnosed the defective transducers by their working temperature. Now that you KNOW which ones fail, are you able to maybe measure their impedance or resistance to see if they also differ in these values depending on if they are defective or not?
Nice job you done there 👍🇮🇪💚🙏🏻
Does the shape and overall dimensions of the tub factor into the transducer placement - outside of just the number of them needed for the total volume of water?
I can't answer this with complete certainty, but the placement of the transducers is about trying to evenly distribute the sound around the whole tank. A bit like trying to place small speakers in a room so that you can clearly hear a sound no matter where you stand in that room.
i know very little about ultrasonic cleaners and even less about transducers but i do quite a bit of welding my perferd method is gas welding also know as oxy acetylene welding a regular oxy acet torch is what i weld most anything together with unless its really thick and i got a big machine that does heliarc or smaw but most of my welding these days is done with a harris torch with a standard mixer and whatever size tip. its alot cheaper than using tig and i have welded the crazyist things known to mankind such as welding a cast iron pipe fitting to a stainless banjo fitting i once welded a motorcycle carburetor float post. stainless will require a flux to unless you want to use mild steel filler then not necessary. cast aluminum is the biggest pain in the ass to weld cus of all the contaminants in the cast a tig would be best for this but is still a serious pain to weld ive welded whole vehicles this way and the only 2 accepted ways of welding aircraft frames is gas welding and tig welding so if you got a few dollars to spare on a torch and tanks you could probably get a set up goin for less than 400 usd but i dont know what the availability is like down under either. but like you found out silver soldering / brazing is over kill for something like this in the good ole days most body shops brazed vehicles together and it will hold even to the point of ripping 18 ga steel the bond will be unfazed im surprised you didnt use a pid for the water temp in the beginning with the analog timer if i build one it would use a timer like that just for reliability sake that and i dont know much about electronics
Great video. One thing I didn't see you address is the epoxy cure times. As epoxy full cure time can be up to a week long.
IS there a Gastronome that is really deeper but not that wide.... just ot clean large motherboard vertically, with teh transducers mounted sideways ?
Probably, but I haven't been able to find one.
First thing I thought of when I watched your original video - buy a manufactured ultrasonic that meets your wattage needs and modify to suit. Far less headache and probably wouldn't have cost much if any more.
You could drill a minuscule hole and add a point of solder to breach the hole and hold the bolt in position from the inside, then solder the outside without it moving
7:04 yes it's right choice because ....
I have seen USC manufacturer UA-camr answering someone's comment about glue , and it was indeed araldite with temperature rating of 120C M
Now if you can program into the Arduino some pwm flex you will have a really awesome diy project that competes with pro-grade. Sweep and degassing would be nice too.😊
Brilliant!
When you said you had no means of turning the mechanical timer off once you started it, you never tried just turning the knob back counter clockwise? Literally every mechanical timer I've ever encountered either at home or hotels for heat lamps can be overridden in this manner.
That said, the Arduino method along with your other control is a nice addition.
Yes, every mechanical timer I've ever encountered too - except this one. 😂
I think the main reason the drilling and bolting isn't used is because at any kind of medium to large production scale the production cost matters a lot more than in a one off project. Welding is just cheaper at scale.
what about using silicone as a sealant, and using a through hole bolt to mount the transducer?
If you get a chance to check out my latest ultrasonic build, I cover that stuff in more detail.
@@BranchusCreations ill look into that, thanks!
Hi! Which kind of software did you use for the animations shown in this video? Thank you!
I'm a Mac user and I used Apple's Motion software for the animations. I use Final Cut Pro X for editing it all together.
An automotive gasket sealent can withstand extremely high temperatures in the 1000s depending on the quality. In addition, it has a little more flex but is a very strong adhesive. This flex could help prevent the separation of the adhesive. As a contractor I've experimented with a wide variety of adhesives. Automotive gasket sealant had unique properties that makes them different from many adhesives. You can even use it to seal holes in freezer sids walls because it does not freeze in freezing temperatures and maintains it's adhesive properties.
I investigated silastic sealants early on, but unfortunately the flex reduces the efficiency of the transducer. The adhesive needs to be rigid as it plays a big part in transferring the waves through to the tank.
@@BranchusCreations oh, my bad
Anyone know why can't one put a bolt through the steel tank and secure the transducer that way (sealing it with epoxy), without need to weld?
Very Good video Sir...
I have a 3liter cleaner, but I will going to need a bigger one..
I am thinking on using it's parts(circuit board, transduser,display), adding some more transduser and circuit board on a bigger tank. Is it possible?
My transducer seems not to have a real polarity as the signal is feed from the transformer and a coupling capacitor so no real connection with the live. I just make sure the parallel set is paired with the the same polarity scheme. Not to the driver itself. Still on the way to build a box but I think will build two boxes apart, one for the driver and another for the pair. Simple ultrasonic cleaner anyway with just one pair of transducers also silver brazed. Will also add a timer from Aliexpress which allows programming on off periods and a fan. If you have oscilloscope you can tune the oscillation frequency to the driver by changing which output one of the transformers is in use and maximizes the voltage output wave (changing the inductance changes the resonance frequency). These chinese drivers have a short which can be changed in between the different pins of the transformer thus changing the inductance of the output circuit.
Hi, do the transducers work when secured only with the solder but without the epoxy? Or are both the Silver solder and the epoxy necessary for the sound waves to be transmitted?
Great video! One observation: why print a plastic box when a couple of bits of wood will work just as well? Planet, life, .... you know.
Hello Bruce. If you decide to build a larger USC, why not build one large enough to lay an entire Power Mac 9500 inside it? You'd probably be able to put anything you wanted into a tub that size.
I have a harebrained idea in the pipeline...
I wish I would have seen this video before trying to fix my ultrasonic cleaner. I bought one off of a web site and didn't realize one of the two transducers had detached. I just reattached it with JB Weld and tried it out with the tinfoil test. Only 1 side made holes so it looks like the transducer is dead. Would there be any issue running the cleaner with just one transducer, other than it taking longer to clean?
It might be a good idea to passivate the area of the tank that was discolored on the inside. Acid is I believe how you do that. Pickling gel or something like will passivate the surface so you don't end up with rust.
Citric acid is ideal for passivating stainless, and is safe to use.
I just revived a 30K usc and it doesn’t seem to like having the heater and transducers on at the same time. Also, do you think depth of water/fluid has an impact on the efficiency of the cleaning?
If I run this ultrasonic with little or no water in it, the cleaner uses way more power and the drivers generate more heat. It's definitely not good to do. I know of someone else who regularly tried running his cleaner with the tank less than half full, and it killed the cleaner. It's important to have the tank filled to the recommended amount.
Great build and discovery! Suggestion: Don't epoxy the transducer to the surface of the tank, instead use some threadlocker to attach it to the bolt. This way you can replace a transducer if needed by unscrewing it.