One way that you can mount the studs without welding is to drill and tap the studs on the tank side and then drill holes in the tank and use cap head Screws to connect them using copper washers to seal the Junction.
Sounds like a good idea but since all the electronics sit under the tank i would never dare to make any holes in the tank, Just in case a leak was to happen.
@Anthony Williams Copper washers are commonly used in automotive applications typically on the oil drain plug. They are however a one time use item as they become work hardened from being clamped by the fastener. Another example of a crush able metal seal is the small washer that come on spark plugs, Which are designed to extend high heat vibration and pressure.
When I first found this video I wasn't sure it really needed 25 minutes to explain something so straightforward. But every minute was worth it and I was grateful for plenty of information (and pitfalls) that I wouldn't have been aware of otherwise. Very clear and probably a model YT video. Thanks.
If there is any way to display the videos from oldest to newest [or at least to number them in the title] it would be a lot easier to view them in order. For instance the ultrasonic cleaner playlist presents a ‘follow-up’ video in first place, and the actual first in series in about the middle position. Bitching completed. This is a very interesting playlist, thanks for making it.
Sir I must congratulate you on the presentation of this video. I have gone through hundreds of Terabytes of videos and not one comes close to yours in every aspect. Well done and thank you. Respect from a retired Engineer in South Africa .
Awesome job. This is how DIY movies on YT should look like. Not only it shows "how to" but also shows mistakes and troubles along the way and how to solve them.
I totally agree with you! This is the first video I've seen from this person, and I'm sold. He makes it so much more authentic, and accessible. It's no fun watching some DIY video and it's made by a senior level Engineer alumni from MIT, class of 1997, with 25 yrs experience, perfect CAD mock ups, seriously over complicated wiring solutions, usage of $50k dollar tools (plural, because just ONE humble brag won't do!) and just such a daunting project that you doubt yourself and wind up wanting to quit before you've even started! Those types make me feel unqualified to change a light bulb without supervision! This guy is amazing tbh
I have deep respect and sympathy for people that build stuff themselves. I know from my own experience there usually are many, many problems, but you persevered and got a solution that works great for you. Well done, and also an awesome video!
@@ejrupp9555 even in nature, nothings completely correct and is in constant correction... Please correct me if I'm wrong.... Hahaha... DeWalt power tool type #, for example are usually above 100. I e. Type 101 means over 100 prototype before production... So he did quite well....
@@kenclarke4906 IMO, there is no, one perfect thing ... the only things that gets close are evil & fantasy. The remedy to improve good enough is worse in unforeseen ways. I had a Religion teacher in HS with your name. Good enough is by definition ... good enough.
A mechanic friend of mine cleaned some rusty heads for me at his house. He just put them in a metal bucket with water and baking soda. Then hooked ground to bucket and positive to a piece of scrap metal . He was using a 10 amp battery charger. It cleaned the rust great out of those heads. They had been laying outside for 10 years. I was very impressed. Thanks for all the great info. I want to make a 55 gl. drum into 1 for cleaning blocks.
Thanks for making this video! Some issues i have with it are the 2 devices you called voltage stabilizers - those are bipolar transistors. The epoxy you used - the manufacturers use special high temperature high hardness homogenous mix that seems to hold the transducers even after getting over 200 deg C. The transducers are actually piezoelectric resonators and the driver boards attempt to resonate them at their own frequency. Using one driver board for 2 transducers reduces the vibration amplitude. The transformers use a special type of wire to fall in line with the skin effect at this kind of frequencies so be mindful when rewinding them. The transducers run on 1.5 up to 3 KV so be very careful with their wiring. I work with transducers for ultrasonic welding at 15, 18 and 20 KhZ with up to 3KW of power each. Be mindful when taking them out of circuit when hot and attempting to touch them when they cool off - due to the piezo effect and the plates being compressed by a large diameter bolt which contracts and expands with heat the plates can and will generate a substantial charge on the middle electrode if not in circuit. Disassembling them will also generate that type of charge as well as assembling them. The piezo electric material that the plates are made of usually contains lead and titanium but the lead is quite toxic so wear a respirator if you notice a broken plate in any of the transducers. As you found out - every board and the vat should be grounded. The polarity of the transducers is important because their outside electrode must be grounded to the vat and supply ground.
@@BranchusCreations search for this: epoxy resin glue,AB glue can be used in the stainless steel and the ultrasonic transducer paste The site is erasing the comments in which i post links.
I once opened my drier machine to do some "preventive" maintenance by drilling holes near the drier motor which of course i accidentally hit the motor and messed up the coil, i search and search but couldn't find the exact motor and not knowing much about DC and AC motor i was tempted to just a new a drier but i couldn't accept defeat so i studied as much as i can about DC and AC till i was able to source one out and install it on my drier after 1 1/2 year lol yes it took that long coz i was putting it off and due and of course the pandemic lol. Log story short i can relate on DIY stuff its good if it works and if not man it stings... And its always hard coz its ur first rodeo but ones u get ur skills up everything will fall into place. Im actually looking to build a UC and happy i stumbled on your video. hope to see some updates! and more power!
Arrived here by accident.I am very happy to of found you. An Aussie giving accurate sensible build advice is a gem in the sea of misinformation that is the internet.I am off to peruse your back catalog. Thank you so much for the great information you have provided us with.
Great article on building an ultrasonic cleaner. Some suggestions : *) Positioning of the transducers under the pan. The two commercial units and your own show the transducers spaced equidistance and positioned relatively close to the edge of the bottom of the water tray. This will work but creates a really inefficient transfer of acoustic energy into the tray and water. The curved edge of the tray is the stiffest part of the tray. So its hard to impart vibrations into the pan. The centre of the pan is the most flexible part of the pan and this is where the transducers should be mounted. To maximise the amount of pan bottom-panel movement , you need to mount the transducers closer to the centre of the pan. You also need to keep in mind that the transducers are now acting as a broadside array (in both the X and Y directions of the pan area) and that the spacing between the transducers will affect the (spatial) phasing of them (and hence the amount of overall power). To keep the transducers working in unison (spatially) you need to space them at integers of the wavelength they operate at. The propagation velocity for water is 1450 m/s and for the steel pan , somewhere around 3000m/s ( from memory , so please confirm this before using it) Since your mounting to the metal pan, then say your transducers are running at 30kHz then 1 wavelength will be C/F = 3000/30E3 = 0.10 m (driver centre to centre). So ideally you would need to keep the transducers spaced around 100mm. Any way you have the idea , you need to plug in the operating frequency for your devices, and look up the correct propagation frequency for the metal. You could measure the propagation time across transducers to work out spatial phasing and ideal transducer distance by exciting one transducer (only) and measuring from a second adjacent transducer , but treating it as a "pickup microphone". *) Polarisation of Transducers It is not impossible that the output transformers feeding the transducers may have different winding directions depending on suppliers of the transformers. It is wise to check , with a scope the actual drive signal polarity to make sure all drivers are running in phase. *) Tuning of the driver frequency for maximum power output. The transducer design you are working with is known as a Tonpilz transducer ( means musical mushroom in German). The conical aluminium mounting base is a 1/4 wave acoustic shorting stub. This all means that the transducers are resonant devices meant to transfer max energy at the resonant frequency of the transducer. I suggest, you tune each of the drive and transducers, one at a time, mounted to the pan and pan full of water. Tune for maximum power transfer to the water. What I do is to float a sheet of aluminium foil on TOP of the water, and count the number of seconds to achieve pinholes. That gives you a pretty easy way of calculating a time integrated method for real acoustic power measurement. There will probably be a trimpot on each of the driver boards that will allow you to tweak the driver resonant frequency. *) You need to use welded lugs to secure the transducer to the pan underside Epoxy will work , but you lose energy ( the stuff is too compliant) and you are getting heat failure of the epoxy Consider using spot welding to mount the mounting studs to the bottom of the pan for maximum power transfer. If you cant afford a spot welder, using a heavy duty truck 12V battery that can crank 400 to 600Amps. Use a starting solenoid to interrupt the battery, use welding leads or car battery jumper leads ( around 1/2 inch thick copper wire) and then use a monostable multivibrator to adjust how many milliseconds to power the starter solenoid that feeds the spot weld contact points. Use a couple of spark plugs with the centre ground leads snapped off , for your point contacts. *) Transducer overheating Consider using a high temperature epoxy (electric motor coil epoxy) to glue small heat sinks to the bottom of the transducer backs , so the fans can do their job better, and place the heatsink blades in the same direction as the air flow. Heatsinks and glue mass will alter the Q and the resonance frequency of the transducers , so take this into account. If your transducers are overheating, one possibility is that they are not transferring all of their acoustic energy into the pan and water. As a consequence, some of the electrical energy is converted to heat in the transducer. Use this knowledge to help you tune your device for max power transfer into the water. *) Power transistor ratings Your output transistors are FeiHong FHA13009A (or similar brand) rated at 400V 100W 12A 4MHz +150℃@(Tj) in a TO-3PN flat pack (PNP power transistor). Consider uprating these , use Mouser selection search to find a suitable VCE, power, current and temperature rating. To widen your search allow for other mounting considerations such as TO3 can and use a heatsink placed in the fan air flow, and use fly leads to connect the trannies to the PCB. I found 2N6609 (TO3 can ) with 16A , 150W , 200 c (Tj) but a VCE of 140V ( you will need to measure the max VCE of you drivers to see if this is high enough. ) You should measure the operating temperature of the existing trannies to see if its overheating the mode of failure or over voltage transients.For the former, you can solve using bolt on heatsink and for the latter , use a GMOV varistor across the C & E to clamp any bad transients (you will need a high speed scope to see glitches. A low speed scope may not be able to see them, and the scope leads may also be a source of damping, so beware ) Good article - well done Hope this helps George
It's refreshing to to hear "the rest of the story" Having done my fair share of custom equipment this shows the process nicely. I for one would have found someone to weld the screwed attachment points on the tray but hey that's me. The glue seems to work once the kinks in the method are Ironed out kudos for your persistence it paid off
well done my friend. I am an avid tinkerer, engineer, builder and often have desired getting an ultrasonic cleaner. you have taught me a great deal - thank you
I spent many years servicing L&R industrial cleaners and watch cleaning machines. Transducer polarity really doesn't matter as long as they are al wired the same. Any transducers in the system wired differently from the others will produce a waveform that is 180º out of phase and cancel its equivalent energy from the system.
That is like wiring up a pair of speakers. If you wire one speaker, say using a red wire for positive & a black for negative, & on the second you use the black wire for positive & the red for negative, you have created an out of phase condition. With the balance control set in the center, you will not have any real bass. Turning the balance all of the way to either full left or to full right will bring the bass response back to life. With the balance set in the center, one speaker is essentially moving outward on bass notes & the other is moving inward. I used to call this the Star Trek "Matter verses Anti-Matter" effect.
I watched this video because I want to convert my automotive pats washer to an ultrasonic cleaner, but after seeing the quality of the components I thinks it’s better not to burn down my garage 😂 thanks for explaining the pros and cons, most people want to portray themselves as experts and won’t devulge the problems in the process, but you learn more from failures than triumphs
I must say that it is refreshing to see someone who is not totally locked into selling a particular Brand. I think you did an excellent job of explaining what it was that you were doing, without using tech terms, and keeping everything on a level for an average person to be able to understand. Looking forward to your next video.
When I repaired industrial electronics, we had a dedicated circuit board cleaning station. We had a dishwasher and a modified refrigerator with a hot air circulation system to dry them in, about 100 F to prevent melting things. Cascade was our soap of choice.
@@ronjenkins6674 naa.. they didn't take out the sulfur till the 00's so cascade was much more effective back in the day. I knew a guy that ran an internet cafe in the late 90's. He use to use a similar technique on keyboards.
@@acidreign0911 I'd use bleach on my keyboards if I ran an Internet cafe, LOL This stuff was industrial electronics mostly used in making cardboard or tires. That stuff was nasty, sometimes the only thing wrong was the crud was shorting something (or a whole lot of somethings) important out.
I used to work in an electronic parts cleaning company here in California USA and I have used and operated a huge cleaning machine with two ultrasonic tanks, about 40 gallons each, more or less. One is for the detergent mixture, which is automatically mixed by the computerized machine and the other has plain DI water only for rinsing. We used D.I. water (distilled industrial water), which is a very pure type of water for both tanks. I have retired 6 years ago from that work and glad to watch your video about ultrasonic cleaners and how to build one.
Had to watch 10 other demonstrations of carb cleaning on YT before I finally came across one that actually explained what the heck was going on, and what I need to look for when making a purchase. Thanks!
I don't know anything about cleaning electronic boards, but I've used Pine-sol for. Carburetors, and throttle bodies for years. Thanks for a great video. God bless.
Just a small hint. The lugs with the threads which should be welded on the tub, to which the transducers have to be glued, have a purpose. The thickness of the glue needs to be a certain thickness to optimize the energy transferee from the transducer to the tub. Otherwise the energy stays in the transducer an gets converted to heat. The waste product of the energy converging world. If one cannot weld there are mettle stripes of different thickness which can be bought and uses to make the glue the right thickness.
yeah that is true, but in reality glue has no business being anywhere near the transducers and the tub. Glues are organic and do not have the high density to properly transfer the phonons from the transducer to the tub. Welding is necessary otherwise you are robbing yourself on efficiency, and probably shortening the lifespan of your transducers. I was using these things way back in 1997 in combination with a Malvern Zeta sizer and a Malvern Mastersizer for particulare anaysis in the functional foods industry. Laser particle analysis, Mie theory, Fourier transform the whole shebang.
@@psycronizer Umm... all ultrasonic cleaners use a combination of a welded lug and a high temp adhesive (the proper kind comes in sheets and must stay refrigerated before use), but epoxy can be used. when used together, the energy is transferred through the lug and the epoxy keeps the transducer from unscrewing from the tub.
That's super interesting them heating up because of energy transfer, or lack thereof. So I guess that's like what happens when a radio transmitter's antenna isn't tuned properly, which also fries the drivers. Ya learn something new every day!
@@psycronizer I don't know what that's good for but I intend on learning. I have heard of a Laser Particular analyzer and sizer's but lack the wisdom for the other. Yet I am learning.
@@psycronizer alternatively you could weld saddles around the transducers with rubber wedges pushing the transducer firmly against the bottom of your tank …
Some notes from working in electronics industri for the last 25 years, most places clean the PCB's with either just isopropyl alcohol or cleaning solution as you mentioned, normally we will bake out the boards at no higher than 45 degrees celcius (typically 45minutes will do the job),higher temperatures can create vapers being able to expand in the boards and in worst case delaminate the pcb, when rinsing with isopropyl alcohol you will remove the thin layer of conformal coating, this will open op the boards for moisture and other not so great things on the board, therefor you should re-coate the boards with an thin conformal coating like the 3M Nove 1700 Electronic Grade Coating, this will keep the board properly sealed, these types of coating are removed with isopropyl alcohol if you need to rework on the boards, this was just my 2 cents :) the solders on the PCB for the drivers are properly done based on IPC Calss 1 requirements :) this is the lowest quality one can go.
This video provided me with tons of valuable info on DIY ultrasonic cleaners. Its nice to know someone who also is good a TIG welding ( as its called in the states). I wonder if the transformers were of the wrong values ( wattage wise) since they were overheating. A typical Chinese thing to undersize components to keep production costs down.
Also a note not mentioned elsewhere in this section; The mounting of the circuit assemblies benefit greatly by having their boards mounted on edge, with heatsinks all pointing up, such that air current in enhanced. In this way, they run cooler!
The Chinese are practicing zen. Minimalist Copper in the transformers, i.e. only what is needed without a margin . If you can drop your input voltage 10% you can extend its life …
I also made my own ultrasonic cleaner a few years back. I used a large old fryer. (Basket and heat is included that way) Instead of the glue, i drilled a hole, found a big bolt that fitted the transducers and then glued them in. It hasn't leaked so far. I think my drivers are simular to yours, I did get confused about the KHz. Some are 28Khz, others are 40Khz and I could not find a good reason for that at the time. So I used both and mixed them. It works well. Fluid is an important factor. I'm definitely going to try that aluminum foil test.
UA-cam did not like me posting a link to aliexpress to a 500w 28Khz/40Khz board with big heatsink, fan, display and control board with options for adjusting time, power, activating/deactivating frequency sweep and start/stop button. I was suggesting this board as it would help cut down on the overheating problems thanks to the extra 100w headroom while giving more control over the ultrasonic cleaner. Great video BTW, helped me get a clearer picture of what I would be in store for if I were to build myself one for my computer repair shop. * edit * Look for the link in the replies to this message.
Well done! I'm sensing a pattern with those drivers... I hope you find some good quality ones. If I were to make one I'd try drilling and tapping.a hole in the mounting pegs and securing them with a screw, washer, and loctite from inside the tub, sealing that with an o-ring or something because my welding is nowhere near good enough to tackle this either. The vibration from the cones must be pretty wild, I can see why it would eventually break a brittle epoxy bond.
Thank you for your video. As a being retired automation engineer of a cement factory, I was also responsible of chemical labrotory equipment. Fixing ultrasonic transducer were not easy. I tried many glue but at last I welded tree nuts near by the transducer and squeze transducer withsteel plates. these ultrasonic cleaners are working about 20 hours in a day. So after a time there were cracks at the steel container and liquid (diluated citric acid) drops down. This was also easy to replace the container.
Bruce, I have a suggestion for you. The studs that come with the transducer heads can also be silver brazed in place. A small propane torch can generate more than enough heat for that purpose. If you carefully apply heat to the stud a little at a time it is as easy as soldering. Granted the temperature is much higher than soldering but you will see the flux melt and flow when the temperature is high enough then the silver will flow just like solder does.
Thanks, I've had many other people make the same suggestion. I actually have all the solver brazing equipment now and will be doing some tests for me next follow up video.
@@BranchusCreations Hey Bruce, since the tubs are thin they will warp pretty easily if too much heat is applied. First, use something like a scotch bright pad or the like and Isopropyl alcohol to clean the area you are going to braze too. Then wrap the stud in something like baling wire to hold it upright and in place with the threaded tip up and the flat against the tub. This will keep your hands clear of the heat and ensure the thing stays put. Then make a ring of the brazing wire to wrap around the unthreaded end of the stud. Next, apply a small dab of borax/flux to the spot. Remember the silver brazing metal is going to follow wherever the flux goes so start with a small dab maybe 5mm dia. or just a bit bigger than the diameter of the stud. Now place the ring tight around the stud and sit both in the borax/flux. Then heat the stud until the borax/flux melts and then until the ring melts and flows under the stud. There should be more than enough heat transferred through the stud to heat the tub. At that point you will see if the braze has stuck to the stud and the tub, it will resemble a good solder joint. Only Much hotter! ;-) Don't try and feed the brazing wire as you would solder as the torch will melt it quickly and you run the risk of pushing the stud out of place. I hope this helps.
That's brilliant, I know because I was going to say the same thing. But glad I read through and found your statement so I didn't say "why don't you just silver soldier it?...My date stamp would show my comment posted after yours and could have missled people to think that I copied your homework.... I mean , how would I know?
THE BEST EXPLANATIION on UA-cam. Thanks!!! You should also maybe consider letting the fans run for about 10 minutes after you shut it off, just to cool the components.
Great video! For attaching those studs, Harris Staybrite 8 is a high strength/low melting point solder used in the hvac industry that is quite easy to use. It melts at 550F and can be applied with an inexpensive map gas or propane torch if they are the “swirl” type (gets more air mixed in for higher temps).
@Carl Mayo with the correct flux, yes. Surfaces need to be very clean and heat controlled carefully to not burn out the flux. Stainless is very easy to overheat, since it is such a bad conductor of heat, so go light on the heat and give it time to come up to temperature. Harris does make a special stainless steel liquid soldering flux that is probably better for more critical or difficult to clean assemblies, but I believe the normal stay clean flux should work if the surfaces are cleaned thoroughly. Stay silv 45 or 56 brazing filler is also an alternative that can be done with a swirl tip mapp torch, but those rods are very expensive. The stay brite 8 would probably work just fine as long as you get a good clean bond.
refreshing to see a video where the guy thinks thrice before he acts or speaks and is up front with all the cockups - great video and fine achievement.
Silver soldering works great with stainless plus its pretty easy, can be done with a map gas torch and can also be used to braze together dissimilar metals, a really good tool in any makes box
Should hold up to heat cycles a helluva lot better than epoxy too... I wonder if I'd try drilling a hole thru than pan to help make a mechanical bond so you're not just relying on the silver solder just sticking to the stainless...like when using uv activated adhesives, they hold better if there's something for the material to wrap around and grab onto rather than just relying on it sticking to smooth flat surfaces. ...if that makes any sense
@@invictusbp1prop143 roughing up the stainless steel, properly cleaning it, along with using flux should be sufficient with proper silver soldering techniques. Besides why install a potential leak
Most enjoyable and well presented, thank you for this episode. While watching I was smiling broadly seeing you go through all the problems I had myself having built a simmilar cleaner several years ago. Eventually the transducers all fall off no matter what glue you use, even the welded bungs crack the bowl eventually. I tend to take this in my stride and glue everything back to keep it working. As you can emagine, I have used just about every wonder, super duper, mega glue on the market, but...
You rock dude!!! Thank you so much for the content. Outstanding production and presentation. I enjoy the sound, tone, and cadence of your speech. It’s not your accent but yeah, that’s super cool too 🫡So many people just watch and don’t say thank you…I’m saying thank you 😊
Protip on the whole welding thing: In a situation like this you don't actually need much skill to do it right. Just centerpunch the spot where the threaded bolt thingy is gonna be (so you have it marked from both sides). Then place it down right there and maybe hold it in place with some aluminium tape (or any other heat resistant tape). Then simply weld right on the spot from the other side (probably works best with a TIG welder, but MIG should work as well). You WILL blow a hole into your thin sheet metal, yes, but since the bolt is right there anyways that's actually what you want. It'll weld right through and onto the bolt. Done.
Thanks for the advice! If you get a moment, please check out my follow up video where I play around with some welding and silver soldering. ua-cam.com/video/ByhGEFwCxoY/v-deo.html
This is an absolutely top notch YT video. It's informative and the presentation is tremendous, which usually indicates that much thought and work went into the production. I could infer that you don't have English-speaking friends in Europe from you comments on aluminum/aluminium pronunciation. I recently bought an ultrasonic cleaner to resuscitate at least one of many nonfunctioning printers collecting dust here. You have given much food for thought. Thanks.
That Ultrasonic Vibrations (friction= physical erosion. + friction=heat + heat=expansion of glue = less surface area of mating parts all that together means adhesive will not last long term) above all else will separate the transducers. So a physical coupling to the tank is necessary especially if you use it often. Also to my understanding if the tank is on A bed of springs will increase effectiveness of resonance in the water. And if that is achieves I believe there will be less heat around transducers as well.. But I know little.
Thank you for the video; it was challenging with all the parts issues; they probably were all bad transformers, to begin with. On the surface, ultrasonic cleaners seem like a simple technology. Despite this, there are many different issues to consider. After serving 22 years in the military as a medical maintenance technician, I am grateful to have had the experience of working on all the different equipment. Maintaining medical equipment such as x-ray machines, anesthesia machines, EKG machines, and ultrasonic cleaners, ranging from large bathtub-size units to small desktop units used in dental offices. I miss getting extra parts quickly, lol. I had a good laugh at the "vibrating bucket at home movie clip" in your video. Besides tach welding, medical manufacturers also use flexible non-conductive epoxy on the bottom half of the transducer. In addition to absorbing some shock and strain, the flexibility provides increased strength to the welded bolts. Continuously running the unit has its wear and tear. There is a slight difference in the formula used in medical grade units. Nevertheless, they are more concerned about the temperature and the unit's ability to maintain a certain water level during the cycle. Sonic energy, water level, improper temperature, and degassing are the most common problems. We used a synthetic soil test that mimicked blood and tissue found on surgical instruments to test them. Additionally, this system ensures that all zones within the tank function together. Many of the large units I worked on in surgical operating locations were made by Steris Healthcare. In the past, I remember their dual frequency transducer working at 132KHz, which is more than triple the standard 40KHz frequency transducer. I remember always fixing that brand. All equipment like these gets recycled at some point, and you can purchase them used/refurbished from medical supply stores. My garage always has one for car parts.
If you have a scrap tray to practice on, try doing a plug weld, it's much easier to manage heat in a plug weld and this is an ideal case for it. Drill a hole about half the diameter of the slug in the tray, then place the slug against the bottom of the tray, covering the hole, and weld from the top of the tray to fuse the rim of the hole to the top of the plug. Keep the welding gun toward the center of the hole to keep from blowing out the bottom of the tray, and work in short bursts, around 0.75-1 seconds, overlapping the end of the last burst and the start of the next slightly to maximize the chances it stays watertight. Should get that nice and firmly affixed without too much fuss.
Some places would call that a rosette weld. I would just use a cap screw and weld around it from the top side. Your idea is much neater and also strong.
Very interesting. I finally understand what transducers are and how this works. Also good to have a vote of confidence for Vevor, a Chinese brand. So many dud brands on Amazon these days. Researching a good brand is exhausting. Tip 1: I use a dog hair blower for blowing out water from everything. This helps with less staining, and faster drying. Cost is about $100 on Amazon. A pet shop price is $400. The hair dryer is more heat, medium fan. A heat gun is all heat and no fan. A dog blower is low heat and very strong fan. I have all 3. Each has its function. You can use the dog dryer like compressed can of air and a mini air compressor. Blow out leaves, keyboard, ceiling cobwebs, water from washed bottles, etc. It does not dry faster, it literally blows the water off the surface. Tip 2: Do not put your hand into the machine while it is running. Shock is not the issue. The bones in your hand will be damaged by the sonic vibrations. As any DIYer knows, the hands are the most used tools you have, so preserve them, baby them, and never subject them to damage or rough use. A lot of guys are very macho about it, having stronger hands than us women, but sooner or later, arthritis will creep in, bone damage, tissue damage, fungal damage. Baby your hands. Question: Can I put a greasy car part or smoke damaged (from house fire) jewelry in a glass bottle with Mineral Spirits or Acetone or Gasoline/Diesel, tighten the leak proof lid, and immerse in an ultrasonic bath? The gasoline is in the jar along with the car part or bicycle chain, and the whole closed jar is inside the ultrasonic basket filled with water. This way, the water does not contaminate item, no distilled water use, no cleaner. Diesel will remove dirt faster than soap and water. I saw this done on UA-cam but worried about safety issues and flammability. Anyone know if this is safe?
Sometimes we re-invent the wheel, and learning what not too do becomes the point of your endeavor!!!....I really thought a square wheel would work!!!....lol...Nope!!...The lines between Working smart, vs. Working hard, become blurred!!!...And I learned alot from your hard work!!🤏👍🙏...🤯😁Thanks,
The speed of sound in steel is about 5100 m/s, at 41000Hz, this would be a wavelength of 124.39mm. Did you try various transducer positions to make sure they would not be cancelling one another?
How coherent are they source to source? How crystalline is the medium? How uniform is the container ... it is constrained? It becomes a fairly linear wave front at some small distance from the source ... that is why they don't clean well near the bottom. It could have a situation you envision ... though it would be pretty hard to pull it off even if you tried. You perhaps are thinking about optimizing the location ... which would decrease the weak spot near the bottom ... the optimized difference would be small ... not really worth considering it would be something like comparing 10^6 to 10^8. With a coherent single source through multiple slits, it's a bit easier to get to where you are interested ... sorta like a dbl slit with 2 rows of 4 instead. But the medium is nothing like air and the container is nothing like an atmosphere or a big pond. The container also couples well across sources although nothing like a coherent source. The closer you are to stadium light, you see all the individual lights ... the further away you are the more you just just see it as one light. Same with a set of multiple speakers. How close do you have to get to a TV to see the different colors?
I will never make an ultrasonic cleaner, indeed I don't really have any use for one, so I watched your video out of general interest. I think it is excellent, with explanations, problems and solutions presented very clearly. Then I read some of the comments and was very pleased to see so much extra helpful information, advice and suggestions. I surmise that people who use ultrasonic cleaners are a great group and I presume that all their small possessions are very clean indeed.
This is interesting! I'm always irritated that youtube doesn't recommend better stuff, but not today! As far as degassing the water, if you elevate the water temperature, that will help de-gas it. If you always make the water hot, it probably removes some need to de-gas. Carbon dioxide is more soluble in cold water.
I was considering to build an ultrasonic cleaner on my own … Hmmm, you know what: I think I will not. Thank you so much for taking us with you on this adventure, it was very informative. Cheers!
Great video...I think your issues might be caused by the piezo cells being out of phase...it's like a speaker box with multiple speakers out of phase...they destroy each other and also over work each other. . You may need to get a frequency scope or some similar mechanical method of figuring out the phase....maybe the sound it gives off may be an indicator. I also think you should be able to screw in those studs instead of glue...it would greatly increase the efficiency of the unit...one comment I tend to agree with is that not getting that vibration out can over heat the system. I will try your project God's willing and make the adjustments 5hat I think will help... thank you for the inspiration.
Fifty years ago I was servicing ultrasonic cleaners in hospital sterilising departments. They were big suckers with 12 transducers and of course back then big high voltage valve driver circuits. The transducers were bolted to the base of the tanks with epoxy resin glue to bond to the base also. As for sticking your finger in the water, that is how I used to do a quick check of the cavitation after replacing a transducer. However, several checks as you adjusted the output tuning caused a very swollen finger. A belt from the anode of the final triode running at 27kHz was many times worse however.
When I first started looking at LRC power circuits (which frankly is way outside my comfort zone) I learned that they can easily get into runaway current conditions - that there is no guaranteed way to limit the current in the resonant circuit for a given load condition... so... fun times!
Excellent! And I agree, a $1200 Crest performs just as well as a $120 random brand from ebay. No reason at all to go with a Crest, at least if the intended use is cleaning logic boards.
Moral of the story if you find a good deal on an ultrasonic cleaner just buy it ready to use! I use ultrasonic cleaning for small carburetor parts and find it's very effective. Nice job with the video sir! -Glen
Good, clear well made video. However, after learning from your mistakes, head to a local welding specialist, and have the brackets welding on. I am pretty sure, epoxy will always crack with high power ultrasonic waves. Micro crack, then failure.
Would be an interesting and rather cheap experiment to do a series of the aluminium foil tests with a cascade of foils hung from above, that way you could make a 3d map of cavitation intensity. I'd guess the positioning of the transducers is crucial, combined with various driving frequencies you get interference patterns with unwanted hot spots and dead zones. Though I'm almost sure you can't precisely (if at all) set the frequency of each driver, so this could easily turn out to be a futile attempt to synchronize them in the first place. Still, it would be interesting to see if any pattern emerges in the current configuration.
NICE!! I bought a 1 gallon cleaner that timer goes up to 1 hour. But there are many times I reset it while its running and it runs for 2 hours continuously. Been doing it for years. It has a built in heater and a cooling fan. However, The harbor freight cleaner only runs for a few minutes at a time and will go into over heat mode if run for a few cycles without a break. This shows that not all drivers are 100% duty cycle. So be careful here. Mine is apparently 100% and has no overheat indicator, but the harbor freight one I saw does have an overheat lockout and a light lights up. So for less than 10 minutes of cleaning before it activates, I could never use that one. Love the project and I might try to build one someday because I have the same problem you do. Sometimes I can do half the item and rotate 90 deg and do the other half, but sometimes it just wont fit.
This is one of the most enjoyable videoed I have ever watched on UA-cam. Five stars!! Also, your transparency about the errors was refreshing and helpful. Blessings to you!!
Great info and cool to see your custom build. Crest makes some tall and skinny cleaners great for big PCB's but they're extremely expensive. Something used or custom seems like a great option. BTW, you mentioned some components that can be damaged in an ultrasonic cleaner. Add MEMS oscillators to that list.
HA! that sounded too much like words of experience. Good going, on recommending USED. I have a $975 SharperTEK freq sweeping / heated / degassing unit with 3/4" ball valve drain. I need their unit that is $1,000 more to fit the PS4 / XBox One boards and longer macbook boards. I can't imagine what would make someone let go of a good larger unit. Maybe making our own IS a good option, afterall? These things - NEW, high dollar brand - CAN pay for themselves in the simplest of shops within the first couple of months.
At my work, we're allowed to use the US cleaners for delicate boards, but not allowed to turn on the oscillator. These delicate boards contain tiny common mode chokes with tiny toroids and tiny enameled copper wire. Which, in the past, have fractured the wire due to the US cleaning action 🙁. And the other delicate PCBs are the processor boards, which contain an IC (plastic SMD SOIC) that has a crystal inside it. They can break or be dislodged by vibration 🙁
@@ianmontgomery7534 we don't think we've had any problems doing so. MLCCs are used pretty much on every PCB! If we must do as you say, we may as well never use the US cleaners!
I'll certainly give you an "A" for diligence! It sucks that the components gave so much trouble. And thank you for not having any stupid music in the background!
According to Rossman you only get those holes in aluminium foil if there are standing waves, not when there is random cavitation. So the whole reason to buy the expensive cleaners with frequency sweeping is to avoid the standing waves and the damage they can cause. Supposedly. I have yet to find a cleaner with sweep at even close to my price range.
I guess it all depends what you're cleaning. I've cleaned literally hundreds of motherboards/logic boards, and I've never encountered any ultrasonic-related damage.
@@BranchusCreations Yea, I don't hesitate to use it for most things. But when you are trying to fix something there is only 1 or 2 left in the world of I get paranoid.
Thanks for your interesting video I have been fixing all kinds of stuff for over 60 years and I learned new stuff. I admire you tenacity and problem solving skills.
I never knew you could use an ultrasonic to clean circuit boards, I use one for jewellery work and they’re notorious for loosening small stones in their settings and even shattering certain types of gemstones. Emeralds are a good example as they nearly always have fractures within the stone which will cause it to disintegrate. I’m surprised that all those delicate components don’t behave the same way!
Typically for more delicate items, higher frequencies work better. You can maintain the same watt density while reducing effective power per cavitation bubble. This has 2 benefits in that's it's less likely to cause damage and it's more likely to create cavitations that will clean rather than deform. It's like using a brush with thick vs thin bristles while using the same force. You can still use 40KHz, but higher frequencies do tend to work better.
They do behave the same way. There are a myriad of components you should NOT ultrasonically clean, e.g. crystals and MEMS devices, because they can be degraded or outright pulverised if they happen to resonate on some harmonic of the ultrasonic cleaning energy. If he did this in a production setting he'd be in for a jolly old spate of field failures.
Some gemstones have sympathetic frequencies. Imagine the old trope of the opera singer and the wine glass. Sadly to find out the frequencies depend on the type of stone, it's cut, size and clarity. So in short can be a hit or miss and experimentation and experience goes into knowing what works.
Wow. What an interesting video! I don't even plan on using an ultrasonic cleaner but still was on the edge of my seat the entire video ;) Thank you sir!
Wiring the transducers must be done properly. The center lug is isolated from the shield shell/cone, while the other side is not. Thus the need to ground the tub itself. Before wiring, I always check 1) to see if one if the lugs shorts to the shield/cone, and 2) if the positive of negative wire from the driver connects to ground. If you wire incorrectly, the transducer will not operate, and worse, you've shorted out the driver output.
Great video, very informative, I'm thinking about building my own cleaner but after watching your video I think buying one is the best option as I'm not electrical trained . Thanks for sharing 👍 best regards Frank
man , those driver circuits are garbage . i also got one and it blew up a couple of times , sometimes only after a few minutes working .replaced parts and it blew again after few runs . there is no point to fix those , as the frequency output is unstable . i'm currently working on my own driver circuit .
WARNING DO NOT IMMERSE ELECTRONIC ITEMS UNLESS YOU CHECK whether the components are suitable for immersion. A lot of capacitors and other items are not sealed and if you check the manufacturers site it will tell you. Generally SMD are okay but thru hole need to be checked. Unless you use a low temp oven you need to immerse in IPA and blow the board off or leave it sit for at least a week in a warm area as moisture can be trapped under chips and when powered you might let the magic smoke out it can be very expensive to put it back again.
Another problem is that ultrasonic cleaning destroys MEMS components. If you have SMD oscillators or sensors on a PCB you should probably verify that they are not MEMS devices first.
Thx. Very interesting. I have an ultrasonic for vinyl records. I understand the bubbles have to be very small to get in the record grooves. I don't think mine are small enough.
Well that was an adventure and a half! Super interesting though. I have noticed with power components bought from China or almost anywhere these days, uses either nearly no heatsink compound, or those thermal rubber isolators. I replaced 1000's of those in radio equipment as part of my career. Mica is the best and only way IMHO. Good job on that!
Great minds think alike. I built my own ultrasonic cleaner by repurposing a small commercial fryer. It uses the same pan and lid, but the sheet metal is substantially thicker. I threw away the heater and used a diesel engine warmer adhesive patch instead. I also designed my own digital heat controller, which includes a timer, for it. You made a few mistakes in your build. First, you either improperly mixed or didn't allow for sufficient curing of the epoxy. More importantly you used the wrong epoxy. JB Weld cures into a very hard, strong, temperature tolerant, but very brittle layer that will be pulverized by the vibration over time. Epoxy has to be mixed vigorously, and contrary to what you hear, it requires a long curing time (several days) minimum. It also needs a LOT of mixing in the smallest cup you can get away with, preferably a small cough syrup cup. Too large of a cup will make it harder to incorporate the epoxy components completely and evenly. Epoxy likes to be mixed deep rather than wide so it can continually fold in on itself like cake batter. Mix about 3/4 of the cup full for a good mixing depth. I borrowed a few plastic Twizzler sticks from my local Starbucks and chucked one into my drill and stirred it at full blast for two minutes. The color should change after a good mixing. Second, your application of the epoxy wasn't properly applied. You glued the studs and then glued and screwed on the transducers. If you're not going to weld or braze it on, epoxying it separately won't work. Instead, screw the studs on the transducer so it's flush with the top of the horn. Abrade both the contact area and the horn itself and clean both surfaces with acetone. Add a thin layer of epoxy to both mating surfaces and press the horn firmly on the mating surface until you get a nice bead of glue around the horn. Add some weight to the horns to give it the best chance of adhering. I noticed you feared squeezing out too much glue. This was a mistake since a thick layer of epoxy reduces the cavitation and takes longer to cure. This may explain the electrical issues, for the same reasons you don't run them dry. Alternatively, stainless steel can be easily brazed. Make sure you buy silver solder and a good liquid flux intended for stainless steel. You can use a torch to braze the stud in place. After cleaning up and abrading the surface and adding the epoxy, screw it tightly to maximize contact.
@@JohnVallevikGreen I'm not sure, but if I were to guess, epoxy is rather viscous making it more difficult for the waves to penetrate. If it does have an effect, it would take quite a bit of time in which the epoxy has already started to set. I'm also not sure about paint, but I guess it would work as it's less viscous. I would air on caution as paint often contains volatile solvents.
@@JohnVallevikGreen That applies to epoxy pours where you don't want visible holes or cavities in the molded part. For epoxy used as an adhesive, you need to mix it fast.
You don't need to be a pro TIG welder to put those transducers on the stainless. Just buy some silver solder and a propane torch and some proper flux. That stuff sticks to most metals and provides an extremely strong bond.
❤ you are extremely clear in yor presentation and speak in a measured tone, that aids understanding. Thanks for sharing your mistakes, as it give us an alternative avenue along which to proceed
I have been wanting to build myself one for a while now, I have a stainless steel tank already which was originally designed to be a tank in which a fuel bladder would go into for like a drag racing car, just haven't gotten that far yet, right now I'm just about done building a rock crusher so maybe after this. This reminds me though, back in the early 80s we used to install these pucks in the bottom of new boats since I worked at a yacht dealership back then and the idea was supposed to be that no barnacles or other saltwater marine life would adhere to the surface, ha ha. Needless to say that's the only year that I remember installing them. What we used to install them though and I still use it a lot today is Marine Tex a two part putty that I have fixed everything with even cracks in engine blocks and cylinder heads. Great job on your project by the way.
I use a VWR Scientific 1290 timer and temp controlled hot water bath. In it there is concentrated CLR, ammonia and distilled water. I agitate the water with a filtration pump loop. My ultrasonic cleaner is made in Michigan by SharperTEK. It's got frequency sweeping, degassing, heat up to 70C. I use Branson EC / distilled water. Again I installed a pump / filter loop. I then soak boards in 50/50 mix of Tetrachloroethylene / N-Hexane. This also has pump and filter loop. Then onto reflow oven at about 150C for 10 minutes. Back in the day we used freon vapor machines. Liquid freon sat in the bottom of the tank. It boiled because room temp. The vapors would rise, hit your board, condense onto your board and fall back down as a liquid. It's not too dissimilar to propane. It did a perfect job. My process usually does better at cleaning but nowhere near as reliable at leaving NO residue. You can always find something to nitpick over if you search under microscope...under chips and such. It has repaired a few problem boards outright, all on it's own.
This video is brilliant! Very informative and even shows your failures (mostly not your problem) how to repair and very clear instructions! Absolutely 1000/10 video here!
3 years or so after buying my ‘ultrasonic’ cleaner…. I have now realised I am not alone in having transducers fall off. Mine landed on my circuitry below and luckily just stopped working without me being giving a ‘home made defib’ jolt. Worked 2.5 times out of the box. Initial results were a revelation. Third’s a charm… is it feck… anyhoo after hearing the rattles once unplugged I disassembled whilst taking loads of photos (probably way too few) and removed the broken(the resin had fractured in the transducer) item and then re boxed it (as delivered) and put it on the shelf. I was a bit shocked at the ‘glue’ being used to secure these key items and directly above the electricktrickery components.. ordered two new transducers and they were placed on the shelf where I keep my spares. Both the box with the cleaner in it and the transducers have not moved a millimetre since. Now maybe, I can attempt a repair. Hate electrically got zapped as a toddler sat on me potty… extension cable sockets are a deadly trap for a young boy who is ‘downloading’ his last meal… plus a front loading washing machine on the spin cycle at the other end. Changing batteries in a torch gets me sweating.! A Great video and very well explained I am now ‘subscribed’…
Back in the late 80’s I used what was termed a “scintillator’ to clean the lab stuff that we used. Still talk about how great they were at getting stuff clean- work in finance now and sadly lost my connection with science, but love these beautifully explained vids that make me yearn for my lost days. Anyway , keep up the great work!
One way that you can mount the studs without welding is to drill and tap the studs on the tank side and then drill holes in the tank and use cap head Screws to connect them using copper washers to seal the Junction.
If you get a chance, I'd recommend checking out the follow up video of this project: ua-cam.com/video/ByhGEFwCxoY/v-deo.html
I was thinking something like that but couldn't find the copper washer in my head.if that works with all the vibration, you are very cunning sir 😆😂😹😹😹
Sounds like a good idea but since all the electronics sit under the tank i would never dare to make any holes in the tank, Just in case a leak was to happen.
@Anthony Williams Copper washers are commonly used in automotive applications typically on the oil drain plug. They are however a one time use item as they become work hardened from being clamped by the fastener. Another example of a crush able metal seal is the small washer that come on spark plugs, Which are designed to extend high heat vibration and pressure.
@theagemon I see your point however if I were to copy this build I would likely try to build a separate/protective enclosure for the electronics.
When I first found this video I wasn't sure it really needed 25 minutes to explain something so straightforward. But every minute was worth it and I was grateful for plenty of information (and pitfalls) that I wouldn't have been aware of otherwise. Very clear and probably a model YT video. Thanks.
+1
My favorite quote of the day... "... maybe it was because it was built like garbage." I felt that one in my soul.
Cool video, subscribed.
If there is any way to display the videos from oldest to newest [or at least to number them in the title] it would be a lot easier to view them in order. For instance the ultrasonic cleaner playlist presents a ‘follow-up’ video in first place, and the actual first in series in about the middle position. Bitching completed. This is a very interesting playlist, thanks for making it.
Sir I must congratulate you on the presentation of this video.
I have gone through hundreds of Terabytes of videos and not one comes close to yours in every aspect.
Well done and thank you.
Respect from a retired Engineer in South Africa .
Awesome job. This is how DIY movies on YT should look like. Not only it shows "how to" but also shows mistakes and troubles along the way and how to solve them.
I totally agree with you! This is the first video I've seen from this person, and I'm sold. He makes it so much more authentic, and accessible. It's no fun watching some DIY video and it's made by a senior level Engineer alumni from MIT, class of 1997, with 25 yrs experience, perfect CAD mock ups, seriously over complicated wiring solutions, usage of $50k dollar tools (plural, because just ONE humble brag won't do!) and just such a daunting project that you doubt yourself and wind up wanting to quit before you've even started! Those types make me feel unqualified to change a light bulb without supervision! This guy is amazing tbh
I have deep respect and sympathy for people that build stuff themselves. I know from my own experience there usually are many, many problems, but you persevered and got a solution that works great for you. Well done, and also an awesome video!
Most problems can be researched out on the drawing table.. Most.. It's the last ones, that is the interesting part to play with. Like chess.
Version 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc is how it is done ... even some space telescopes don't always get it right on the first try.
yeah he HAS a solution (in his bath)
@@ejrupp9555 even in nature, nothings completely correct and is in constant correction... Please correct me if I'm wrong.... Hahaha...
DeWalt power tool type #, for example are usually above 100. I e. Type 101 means over 100 prototype before production... So he did quite well....
@@kenclarke4906 IMO, there is no, one perfect thing ... the only things that gets close are evil & fantasy. The remedy to improve good enough is worse in unforeseen ways.
I had a Religion teacher in HS with your name.
Good enough is by definition ... good enough.
A mechanic friend of mine cleaned some rusty heads for me at his house. He just put them in a metal bucket with water and baking soda. Then hooked ground to bucket and positive to a piece of scrap metal . He was using a 10 amp battery charger. It cleaned the rust great out of those heads. They had been laying outside for 10 years. I was very impressed. Thanks for all the great info. I want to make a 55 gl. drum into 1 for cleaning blocks.
Thanks for making this video! Some issues i have with it are the 2 devices you called voltage stabilizers - those are bipolar transistors. The epoxy you used - the manufacturers use special high temperature high hardness homogenous mix that seems to hold the transducers even after getting over 200 deg C. The transducers are actually piezoelectric resonators and the driver boards attempt to resonate them at their own frequency. Using one driver board for 2 transducers reduces the vibration amplitude. The transformers use a special type of wire to fall in line with the skin effect at this kind of frequencies so be mindful when rewinding them. The transducers run on 1.5 up to 3 KV so be very careful with their wiring. I work with transducers for ultrasonic welding at 15, 18 and 20 KhZ with up to 3KW of power each. Be mindful when taking them out of circuit when hot and attempting to touch them when they cool off - due to the piezo effect and the plates being compressed by a large diameter bolt which contracts and expands with heat the plates can and will generate a substantial charge on the middle electrode if not in circuit. Disassembling them will also generate that type of charge as well as assembling them. The piezo electric material that the plates are made of usually contains lead and titanium but the lead is quite toxic so wear a respirator if you notice a broken plate in any of the transducers. As you found out - every board and the vat should be grounded. The polarity of the transducers is important because their outside electrode must be grounded to the vat and supply ground.
Can you recommend a suitable epoxy?
@@BranchusCreations yes, i have to check what we used at work first. Maybe next week when i go back there.
Holy crap Eviltech! That was cool. Many thanks for the details!
@@hudzgh You are welcome! Glad i could help!
@@BranchusCreations search for this: epoxy resin glue,AB glue can be used in the stainless steel and the ultrasonic transducer paste
The site is erasing the comments in which i post links.
I once opened my drier machine to do some "preventive" maintenance by drilling holes near the drier motor which of course i accidentally hit the motor and messed up the coil, i search and search but couldn't find the exact motor and not knowing much about DC and AC motor i was tempted to just a new a drier but i couldn't accept defeat so i studied as much as i can about DC and AC till i was able to source one out and install it on my drier after 1 1/2 year lol yes it took that long coz i was putting it off and due and of course the pandemic lol. Log story short i can relate on DIY stuff its good if it works and if not man it stings... And its always hard coz its ur first rodeo but ones u get ur skills up everything will fall into place. Im actually looking to build a UC and happy i stumbled on your video. hope to see some updates! and more power!
Possibly the best speaker of English on youtube. I have no interest in the subject but love the presentation.
Thank you!
Arrived here by accident.I am very happy to of found you. An Aussie giving accurate sensible build advice is a gem in the sea of misinformation that is the internet.I am off to peruse your back catalog. Thank you so much for the great information you have provided us with.
Thank you!
I second that.
I want a built in ultrasound cleaner in my kitchen sink
You're not gonna believe this....
this comment 🎉😂❤
Genius
Great article on building an ultrasonic cleaner.
Some suggestions :
*) Positioning of the transducers under the pan.
The two commercial units and your own show the transducers spaced equidistance and positioned relatively close to the edge of the bottom of the water tray. This will work but creates a really inefficient transfer of acoustic energy into the tray and water. The curved edge of the tray is the stiffest part of the tray. So its hard to impart vibrations into the pan. The centre of the pan is the most flexible part of the pan and this is where the transducers should be mounted.
To maximise the amount of pan bottom-panel movement , you need to mount the transducers closer to the centre of the pan.
You also need to keep in mind that the transducers are now acting as a broadside array (in both the X and Y directions of the pan area) and that the spacing between the transducers will affect the (spatial) phasing of them (and hence the amount of overall power). To keep the transducers working in unison (spatially) you need to space them at integers of the wavelength they operate at. The propagation velocity for water is 1450 m/s and for the steel pan , somewhere around 3000m/s ( from memory , so please confirm this before using it) Since your mounting to the metal pan, then say your transducers are running at 30kHz then 1 wavelength will be C/F = 3000/30E3 = 0.10 m (driver centre to centre). So ideally you would need to keep the transducers spaced around 100mm. Any way you have the idea , you need to plug in the operating frequency for your devices, and look up the correct propagation frequency for the metal.
You could measure the propagation time across transducers to work out spatial phasing and ideal transducer distance by exciting one transducer (only) and measuring from a second adjacent transducer , but treating it as a "pickup microphone".
*) Polarisation of Transducers
It is not impossible that the output transformers feeding the transducers may have different winding directions depending on suppliers of the transformers. It is wise to check , with a scope the actual drive signal polarity to make sure all drivers are running in phase.
*) Tuning of the driver frequency for maximum power output.
The transducer design you are working with is known as a Tonpilz transducer ( means musical mushroom in German). The conical aluminium mounting base is a 1/4 wave acoustic shorting stub. This all means that the transducers are resonant devices meant to transfer max energy at the resonant frequency of the transducer. I suggest, you tune each of the drive and transducers, one at a time, mounted to the pan and pan full of water. Tune for maximum power transfer to the water. What I do is to float a sheet of aluminium foil on TOP of the water, and count the number of seconds to achieve pinholes. That gives you a pretty easy way of calculating a time integrated method for real acoustic power measurement. There will probably be a trimpot on each of the driver boards that will allow you to tweak the driver resonant frequency.
*) You need to use welded lugs to secure the transducer to the pan underside
Epoxy will work , but you lose energy ( the stuff is too compliant) and you are getting heat failure of the epoxy
Consider using spot welding to mount the mounting studs to the bottom of the pan for maximum power transfer. If you cant afford a spot welder, using a heavy duty truck 12V battery that can crank 400 to 600Amps. Use a starting solenoid to interrupt the battery, use welding leads or car battery jumper leads ( around 1/2 inch thick copper wire) and then use a monostable multivibrator to adjust how many milliseconds to power the starter solenoid that feeds the spot weld contact points. Use a couple of spark plugs with the centre ground leads snapped off , for your point contacts.
*) Transducer overheating
Consider using a high temperature epoxy (electric motor coil epoxy) to glue small heat sinks to the bottom of the transducer backs , so the fans can do their job better, and place the heatsink blades in the same direction as the air flow.
Heatsinks and glue mass will alter the Q and the resonance frequency of the transducers , so take this into account.
If your transducers are overheating, one possibility is that they are not transferring all of their acoustic energy into the pan and water.
As a consequence, some of the electrical energy is converted to heat in the transducer. Use this knowledge to help you tune your device for max power transfer into the water.
*) Power transistor ratings
Your output transistors are FeiHong FHA13009A (or similar brand) rated at 400V 100W 12A 4MHz +150℃@(Tj) in a TO-3PN flat pack
(PNP power transistor).
Consider uprating these , use Mouser selection search to find a suitable VCE, power, current and temperature rating. To widen your search allow for other mounting considerations such as TO3 can and use a heatsink placed in the fan air flow, and use fly leads to connect the trannies to the PCB.
I found 2N6609 (TO3 can ) with 16A , 150W , 200 c (Tj) but a VCE of 140V ( you will need to measure the max VCE of you drivers to see if this is high enough. )
You should measure the operating temperature of the existing trannies to see if its overheating the mode of failure or over voltage transients.For the former, you can solve using bolt on heatsink and for the latter , use a GMOV varistor across the C & E to clamp any bad transients (you will need a high speed scope to see glitches. A low speed scope may not be able to see them, and the scope leads may also be a source of damping, so beware )
Good article - well done
Hope this helps
George
What an amazingly detailed post! Thank you kindly for taking the time to share/write something so helpful and educational for everyone, bravo 🤝
It's refreshing to to hear "the rest of the story" Having done my fair share of custom equipment this shows the process nicely. I for one would have found someone to weld the screwed attachment points on the tray but hey that's me. The glue seems to work once the kinks in the method are Ironed out kudos for your persistence it paid off
well done my friend. I am an avid tinkerer, engineer, builder and often have desired getting an ultrasonic cleaner. you have taught me a great deal - thank you
I spent many years servicing L&R industrial cleaners and watch cleaning machines. Transducer polarity really doesn't matter as long as they are al wired the same. Any transducers in the system wired differently from the others will produce a waveform that is 180º out of phase and cancel its equivalent energy from the system.
That's great to know, thank you!
That is like wiring up a pair of speakers. If you wire one speaker, say using a red wire for positive & a black for negative, & on the second you use the black wire for positive & the red for negative, you have created an out of phase condition. With the balance control set in the center, you will not have any real bass. Turning the balance all of the way to either full left or to full right will bring the bass response back to life. With the balance set in the center, one speaker is essentially moving outward on bass notes & the other is moving inward. I used to call this the Star Trek "Matter verses Anti-Matter" effect.
What is the nominal impedance of an ultrasonic transducer?
I watched this video because I want to convert my automotive pats washer to an ultrasonic cleaner, but after seeing the quality of the components I thinks it’s better not to burn down my garage 😂 thanks for explaining the pros and cons, most people want to portray themselves as experts and won’t devulge the problems in the process, but you learn more from failures than triumphs
I must say that it is refreshing to see someone who is not totally locked into selling a particular Brand. I think you did an excellent job of explaining what it was that you were doing, without using tech terms, and keeping everything on a level for an average person to be able to understand. Looking forward to your next video.
im so glad that i found your channel, thank you for providing useful and informative content.
When I repaired industrial electronics, we had a dedicated circuit board cleaning station. We had a dishwasher and a modified refrigerator with a hot air circulation system to dry them in, about 100 F to prevent melting things. Cascade was our soap of choice.
before or after they took out the sulfur?
@@acidreign0911 This was the late 80's so I would guess after.
@@ronjenkins6674 naa.. they didn't take out the sulfur till the 00's so cascade was much more effective back in the day. I knew a guy that ran an internet cafe in the late 90's. He use to use a similar technique on keyboards.
@@acidreign0911 I'd use bleach on my keyboards if I ran an Internet cafe, LOL This stuff was industrial electronics mostly used in making cardboard or tires. That stuff was nasty, sometimes the only thing wrong was the crud was shorting something (or a whole lot of somethings) important out.
I used to work in an electronic parts cleaning company here in California USA and I have used and operated a huge cleaning machine with two ultrasonic tanks, about 40 gallons each, more or less. One is for the detergent mixture, which is automatically mixed by the computerized machine and the other has plain DI water only for rinsing. We used D.I. water (distilled industrial water), which is a very pure type of water for both tanks. I have retired 6 years ago from that work and glad to watch your video about ultrasonic cleaners and how to build one.
“DI” stands for “deionized”.
TIG welding the threaded studs is the way to go. I wonder if you could drill and tap the studs and run screws with sealing "o" rings through the pan.
I'd try the drill/tap/screw/o-ring solution.
I think I'd just try hard soldering them even though I do have a TIG welder.
You could well have saved a load of people a ton of time with this video given everything you have learned; well done and thank you.
Had to watch 10 other demonstrations of carb cleaning on YT before I finally came across one that actually explained what the heck was going on, and what I need to look for when making a purchase. Thanks!
Good to see another use for those catering dishes. My wife has a few that she dyes wool in.
I don't know anything about cleaning electronic boards, but I've used Pine-sol for. Carburetors, and throttle bodies for years. Thanks for a great video. God bless.
Just a small hint. The lugs with the threads which should be welded on the tub, to which the transducers have to be glued, have a purpose.
The thickness of the glue needs to be a certain thickness to optimize the energy transferee from the transducer to the tub. Otherwise the energy stays in the transducer an gets converted to heat. The waste product of the energy converging world.
If one cannot weld there are mettle stripes of different thickness which can be bought and uses to make the glue the right thickness.
yeah that is true, but in reality glue has no business being anywhere near the transducers and the tub. Glues are organic and do not have the high density to properly transfer the phonons from the transducer to the tub. Welding is necessary otherwise you are robbing yourself on efficiency, and probably shortening the lifespan of your transducers. I was using these things way back in 1997 in combination with a Malvern Zeta sizer and a Malvern Mastersizer for particulare anaysis in the functional foods industry. Laser particle analysis, Mie theory, Fourier transform the whole shebang.
@@psycronizer Umm... all ultrasonic cleaners use a combination of a welded lug and a high temp adhesive (the proper kind comes in sheets and must stay refrigerated before use), but epoxy can be used. when used together, the energy is transferred through the lug and the epoxy keeps the transducer from unscrewing from the tub.
That's super interesting them heating up because of energy transfer, or lack thereof. So I guess that's like what happens when a radio transmitter's antenna isn't tuned properly, which also fries the drivers. Ya learn something new every day!
@@psycronizer I don't know what that's good for but I intend on learning. I have heard of a Laser Particular analyzer and sizer's but lack the wisdom for the other. Yet I am learning.
@@psycronizer alternatively you could weld saddles around the transducers with rubber wedges pushing the transducer firmly against the bottom of your tank …
Some notes from working in electronics industri for the last 25 years, most places clean the PCB's with either just isopropyl alcohol or cleaning solution as you mentioned, normally we will bake out the boards at no higher than 45 degrees celcius (typically 45minutes will do the job),higher temperatures can create vapers being able to expand in the boards and in worst case delaminate the pcb, when rinsing with isopropyl alcohol you will remove the thin layer of conformal coating, this will open op the boards for moisture and other not so great things on the board, therefor you should re-coate the boards with an thin conformal coating like the 3M Nove 1700 Electronic Grade Coating, this will keep the board properly sealed, these types of coating are removed with isopropyl alcohol if you need to rework on the boards, this was just my 2 cents :)
the solders on the PCB for the drivers are properly done based on IPC Calss 1 requirements :) this is the lowest quality one can go.
This video provided me with tons of valuable info on DIY ultrasonic cleaners. Its nice to know someone who also is good a TIG welding ( as its called in the states). I wonder if the transformers were of the wrong values ( wattage wise) since they were overheating. A typical Chinese thing to undersize components to keep production costs down.
Also a note not mentioned elsewhere in this section; The mounting of the circuit assemblies benefit greatly by having their boards mounted on edge, with heatsinks all pointing up, such that air current in enhanced. In this way, they run cooler!
The Chinese are practicing zen. Minimalist Copper in the transformers, i.e. only what is needed without a margin . If you can drop your input voltage 10% you can extend its life …
I also made my own ultrasonic cleaner a few years back. I used a large old fryer. (Basket and heat is included that way) Instead of the glue, i drilled a hole, found a big bolt that fitted the transducers and then glued them in. It hasn't leaked so far. I think my drivers are simular to yours, I did get confused about the KHz. Some are 28Khz, others are 40Khz and I could not find a good reason for that at the time. So I used both and mixed them. It works well. Fluid is an important factor. I'm definitely going to try that aluminum foil test.
To be fair, those boards in the kits probably were soldered by kids.
I like to support kids
Yea child labour
@@ahmadfullheart-yc1vn The best kind
UA-cam did not like me posting a link to aliexpress to a 500w 28Khz/40Khz board with big heatsink, fan, display and control board with options for adjusting time, power, activating/deactivating frequency sweep and start/stop button. I was suggesting this board as it would help cut down on the overheating problems thanks to the extra 100w headroom while giving more control over the ultrasonic cleaner. Great video BTW, helped me get a clearer picture of what I would be in store for if I were to build myself one for my computer repair shop. * edit * Look for the link in the replies to this message.
UA-cam gets a little funny with links, but I certainly didn't remove your post. Maybe try again as a reply to this message?
@@BranchusCreations hmm attempt #5: bit *replace_this_with_a_period_and_remove_the_spaces* ly *replace_this_with_a_forward_slash_and_remove_the_spaces* 500W_ultrasound_generator
seems this post is finally staying up, hopefully it is not too confusing how to reconstruct the link.
Well done!
I'm sensing a pattern with those drivers... I hope you find some good quality ones.
If I were to make one I'd try drilling and tapping.a hole in the mounting pegs and securing them with a screw, washer, and loctite from inside the tub, sealing that with an o-ring or something because my welding is nowhere near good enough to tackle this either.
The vibration from the cones must be pretty wild, I can see why it would eventually break a brittle epoxy bond.
This quality of presentation reminds me of Tech Ingredients. Very good stuff, thanks for the great video!
Thank you for your video. As a being retired automation engineer of a cement factory, I was also responsible of chemical labrotory equipment. Fixing ultrasonic transducer were not easy. I tried many glue but at last I welded tree nuts near by the transducer and squeze transducer withsteel plates. these ultrasonic cleaners are working about 20 hours in a day. So after a time there were cracks at the steel container and liquid (diluated citric acid) drops down. This was also easy to replace the container.
Bruce, I have a suggestion for you. The studs that come with the transducer heads can also be silver brazed in place. A small propane torch can generate more than enough heat for that purpose. If you carefully apply heat to the stud a little at a time it is as easy as soldering. Granted the temperature is much higher than soldering but you will see the flux melt and flow when the temperature is high enough then the silver will flow just like solder does.
Thanks, I've had many other people make the same suggestion. I actually have all the solver brazing equipment now and will be doing some tests for me next follow up video.
@@BranchusCreations Hey Bruce, since the tubs are thin they will warp pretty easily if too much heat is applied. First, use something like a scotch bright pad or the like and Isopropyl alcohol to clean the area you are going to braze too. Then wrap the stud in something like baling wire to hold it upright and in place with the threaded tip up and the flat against the tub. This will keep your hands clear of the heat and ensure the thing stays put. Then make a ring of the brazing wire to wrap around the unthreaded end of the stud. Next, apply a small dab of borax/flux to the spot. Remember the silver brazing metal is going to follow wherever the flux goes so start with a small dab maybe 5mm dia. or just a bit bigger than the diameter of the stud. Now place the ring tight around the stud and sit both in the borax/flux. Then heat the stud until the borax/flux melts and then until the ring melts and flows under the stud. There should be more than enough heat transferred through the stud to heat the tub. At that point you will see if the braze has stuck to the stud and the tub, it will resemble a good solder joint. Only Much hotter! ;-) Don't try and feed the brazing wire as you would solder as the torch will melt it quickly and you run the risk of pushing the stud out of place. I hope this helps.
@@Cyruscosmo o
That's brilliant, I know because I was going to say the same thing. But glad I read through and found your statement so I didn't say "why don't you just silver soldier it?...My date stamp would show my comment posted after yours and could have missled people to think that I copied your homework.... I mean , how would I know?
THE BEST EXPLANATIION on UA-cam. Thanks!!! You should also maybe consider letting the fans run for about 10 minutes after you shut it off, just to cool the components.
Great video! For attaching those studs, Harris Staybrite 8 is a high strength/low melting point solder used in the hvac industry that is quite easy to use. It melts at 550F and can be applied with an inexpensive map gas or propane torch if they are the “swirl” type (gets more air mixed in for higher temps).
But will it solder to stainless?
@Carl Mayo with the correct flux, yes. Surfaces need to be very clean and heat controlled carefully to not burn out the flux. Stainless is very easy to overheat, since it is such a bad conductor of heat, so go light on the heat and give it time to come up to temperature. Harris does make a special stainless steel liquid soldering flux that is probably better for more critical or difficult to clean assemblies, but I believe the normal stay clean flux should work if the surfaces are cleaned thoroughly. Stay silv 45 or 56 brazing filler is also an alternative that can be done with a swirl tip mapp torch, but those rods are very expensive. The stay brite 8 would probably work just fine as long as you get a good clean bond.
@@carlmayo7650 Yes, Staybrite 8 can be used for stainless - it’s has to be used with a liquid acid flux.
refreshing to see a video where the guy thinks thrice before he acts or speaks and is up front with all the cockups - great video and fine achievement.
Silver soldering works great with stainless plus its pretty easy, can be done with a map gas torch and can also be used to braze together dissimilar metals, a really good tool in any makes box
That's what I was thinking.
Yup; cheap, easy to learn, and much stronger than epoxy.
Should hold up to heat cycles a helluva lot better than epoxy too... I wonder if I'd try drilling a hole thru than pan to help make a mechanical bond so you're not just relying on the silver solder just sticking to the stainless...like when using uv activated adhesives, they hold better if there's something for the material to wrap around and grab onto rather than just relying on it sticking to smooth flat surfaces. ...if that makes any sense
@@invictusbp1prop143 roughing up the stainless steel, properly cleaning it, along with using flux should be sufficient with proper silver soldering techniques. Besides why install a potential leak
I loved the way you slipped that comment in a 19.44... dead pan comedy.. also extremely important information. 👏
Most enjoyable and well presented, thank you for this episode. While watching I was smiling broadly seeing you go through all the problems I had myself having built a simmilar cleaner several years ago. Eventually the transducers all fall off no matter what glue you use, even the welded bungs crack the bowl eventually. I tend to take this in my stride and glue everything back to keep it working. As you can emagine, I have used just about every wonder, super duper, mega glue on the market, but...
You rock dude!!! Thank you so much for the content. Outstanding production and presentation. I enjoy the sound, tone, and cadence of your speech. It’s not your accent but yeah, that’s super cool too 🫡So many people just watch and don’t say thank you…I’m saying thank you 😊
Thank you!
Protip on the whole welding thing:
In a situation like this you don't actually need much skill to do it right. Just centerpunch the spot where the threaded bolt thingy is gonna be (so you have it marked from both sides). Then place it down right there and maybe hold it in place with some aluminium tape (or any other heat resistant tape). Then simply weld right on the spot from the other side (probably works best with a TIG welder, but MIG should work as well). You WILL blow a hole into your thin sheet metal, yes, but since the bolt is right there anyways that's actually what you want. It'll weld right through and onto the bolt. Done.
Thanks for the advice! If you get a moment, please check out my follow up video where I play around with some welding and silver soldering. ua-cam.com/video/ByhGEFwCxoY/v-deo.html
This is an absolutely top notch YT video. It's informative and the presentation is tremendous, which usually indicates that much thought and work went into the production.
I could infer that you don't have English-speaking friends in Europe from you comments on aluminum/aluminium pronunciation.
I recently bought an ultrasonic cleaner to resuscitate at least one of many nonfunctioning printers collecting dust here. You have given much food for thought. Thanks.
That Ultrasonic Vibrations (friction= physical erosion. + friction=heat + heat=expansion of glue = less surface area of mating parts all that together means adhesive will not last long term) above all else will separate the transducers. So a physical coupling to the tank is necessary especially if you use it often.
Also to my understanding if the tank is on A bed of springs will increase effectiveness of resonance in the water. And if that is achieves I believe there will be less heat around transducers as well..
But I know little.
Thank you for the video; it was challenging with all the parts issues; they probably were all bad transformers, to begin with. On the surface, ultrasonic cleaners seem like a simple technology. Despite this, there are many different issues to consider. After serving 22 years in the military as a medical maintenance technician, I am grateful to have had the experience of working on all the different equipment. Maintaining medical equipment such as x-ray machines, anesthesia machines, EKG machines, and ultrasonic cleaners, ranging from large bathtub-size units to small desktop units used in dental offices. I miss getting extra parts quickly, lol. I had a good laugh at the "vibrating bucket at home movie clip" in your video.
Besides tach welding, medical manufacturers also use flexible non-conductive epoxy on the bottom half of the transducer. In addition to absorbing some shock and strain, the flexibility provides increased strength to the welded bolts. Continuously running the unit has its wear and tear. There is a slight difference in the formula used in medical grade units. Nevertheless, they are more concerned about the temperature and the unit's ability to maintain a certain water level during the cycle. Sonic energy, water level, improper temperature, and degassing are the most common problems. We used a synthetic soil test that mimicked blood and tissue found on surgical instruments to test them.
Additionally, this system ensures that all zones within the tank function together. Many of the large units I worked on in surgical operating locations were made by Steris Healthcare. In the past, I remember their dual frequency transducer working at 132KHz, which is more than triple the standard 40KHz frequency transducer. I remember always fixing that brand. All equipment like these gets recycled at some point, and you can purchase them used/refurbished from medical supply stores. My garage always has one for car parts.
If you have a scrap tray to practice on, try doing a plug weld, it's much easier to manage heat in a plug weld and this is an ideal case for it. Drill a hole about half the diameter of the slug in the tray, then place the slug against the bottom of the tray, covering the hole, and weld from the top of the tray to fuse the rim of the hole to the top of the plug. Keep the welding gun toward the center of the hole to keep from blowing out the bottom of the tray, and work in short bursts, around 0.75-1 seconds, overlapping the end of the last burst and the start of the next slightly to maximize the chances it stays watertight. Should get that nice and firmly affixed without too much fuss.
Some places would call that a rosette weld. I would just use a cap screw and weld around it from the top side. Your idea is much neater and also strong.
Very interesting. I finally understand what transducers are and how this works. Also good to have a vote of confidence for Vevor, a Chinese brand. So many dud brands on Amazon these days. Researching a good brand is exhausting.
Tip 1: I use a dog hair blower for blowing out water from everything. This helps with less staining, and faster drying. Cost is about $100 on Amazon. A pet shop price is $400. The hair dryer is more heat, medium fan. A heat gun is all heat and no fan. A dog blower is low heat and very strong fan. I have all 3. Each has its function. You can use the dog dryer like compressed can of air and a mini air compressor. Blow out leaves, keyboard, ceiling cobwebs, water from washed bottles, etc. It does not dry faster, it literally blows the water off the surface.
Tip 2: Do not put your hand into the machine while it is running. Shock is not the issue. The bones in your hand will be damaged by the sonic vibrations. As any DIYer knows, the hands are the most used tools you have, so preserve them, baby them, and never subject them to damage or rough use. A lot of guys are very macho about it, having stronger hands than us women, but sooner or later, arthritis will creep in, bone damage, tissue damage, fungal damage. Baby your hands.
Question: Can I put a greasy car part or smoke damaged (from house fire) jewelry in a glass bottle with Mineral Spirits or Acetone or Gasoline/Diesel, tighten the leak proof lid, and immerse in an ultrasonic bath? The gasoline is in the jar along with the car part or bicycle chain, and the whole closed jar is inside the ultrasonic basket filled with water. This way, the water does not contaminate item, no distilled water use, no cleaner. Diesel will remove dirt faster than soap and water. I saw this done on UA-cam but worried about safety issues and flammability. Anyone know if this is safe?
Sometimes we re-invent the wheel, and learning what not too do becomes the point of your endeavor!!!....I really thought a square wheel would work!!!....lol...Nope!!...The lines between Working smart, vs. Working hard, become blurred!!!...And I learned alot from your hard work!!🤏👍🙏...🤯😁Thanks,
The speed of sound in steel is about 5100 m/s, at 41000Hz, this would be a wavelength of 124.39mm. Did you try various transducer positions to make sure they would not be cancelling one another?
A brilliant observation easy to overlook
How coherent are they source to source? How crystalline is the medium? How uniform is the container ... it is constrained? It becomes a fairly linear wave front at some small distance from the source ... that is why they don't clean well near the bottom. It could have a situation you envision ... though it would be pretty hard to pull it off even if you tried. You perhaps are thinking about optimizing the location ... which would decrease the weak spot near the bottom ... the optimized difference would be small ... not really worth considering it would be something like comparing 10^6 to 10^8. With a coherent single source through multiple slits, it's a bit easier to get to where you are interested ... sorta like a dbl slit with 2 rows of 4 instead. But the medium is nothing like air and the container is nothing like an atmosphere or a big pond. The container also couples well across sources although nothing like a coherent source.
The closer you are to stadium light, you see all the individual lights ... the further away you are the more you just just see it as one light. Same with a set of multiple speakers. How close do you have to get to a TV to see the different colors?
I will never make an ultrasonic cleaner, indeed I don't really have any use for one, so I watched your video out of general interest. I think it is excellent, with explanations, problems and solutions presented very clearly. Then I read some of the comments and was very pleased to see so much extra helpful information, advice and suggestions. I surmise that people who use ultrasonic cleaners are a great group and I presume that all their small possessions are very clean indeed.
This is interesting!
I'm always irritated that youtube doesn't recommend better stuff, but not today!
As far as degassing the water, if you elevate the water temperature, that will help de-gas it. If you always make the water hot, it probably removes some need to de-gas.
Carbon dioxide is more soluble in cold water.
I was considering to build an ultrasonic cleaner on my own … Hmmm, you know what: I think I will not. Thank you so much for taking us with you on this adventure, it was very informative. Cheers!
Great video...I think your issues might be caused by the piezo cells being out of phase...it's like a speaker box with multiple speakers out of phase...they destroy each other and also over work each other. . You may need to get a frequency scope or some similar mechanical method of figuring out the phase....maybe the sound it gives off may be an indicator. I also think you should be able to screw in those studs instead of glue...it would greatly increase the efficiency of the unit...one comment I tend to agree with is that not getting that vibration out can over heat the system. I will try your project God's willing and make the adjustments 5hat I think will help... thank you for the inspiration.
Fifty years ago I was servicing ultrasonic cleaners in hospital sterilising departments. They were big suckers with 12 transducers and of course back then big high voltage valve driver circuits. The transducers were bolted to the base of the tanks with epoxy resin glue to bond to the base also. As for sticking your finger in the water, that is how I used to do a quick check of the cavitation after replacing a transducer. However, several checks as you adjusted the output tuning caused a very swollen finger. A belt from the anode of the final triode running at 27kHz was many times worse however.
When I first started looking at LRC power circuits (which frankly is way outside my comfort zone) I learned that they can easily get into runaway current conditions - that there is no guaranteed way to limit the current in the resonant circuit for a given load condition... so... fun times!
Fuse is probably the only one
First time viewer....thanks for a clear, concise, honest telling of the saga.
Excellent! And I agree, a $1200 Crest performs just as well as a $120 random brand from ebay. No reason at all to go with a Crest, at least if the intended use is cleaning logic boards.
Moral of the story if you find a good deal on an ultrasonic cleaner just buy it ready to use! I use ultrasonic cleaning for small carburetor parts and find it's very effective. Nice job with the video sir! -Glen
Good, clear well made video. However, after learning from your mistakes, head to a local welding specialist, and have the brackets welding on. I am pretty sure, epoxy will always crack with high power ultrasonic waves. Micro crack, then failure.
I appreciated your intonation and rythm during your superb video. It was like assisting to a lesson with a good professor. Thank you !
Would be an interesting and rather cheap experiment to do a series of the aluminium foil tests with a cascade of foils hung from above, that way you could make a 3d map of cavitation intensity. I'd guess the positioning of the transducers is crucial, combined with various driving frequencies you get interference patterns with unwanted hot spots and dead zones. Though I'm almost sure you can't precisely (if at all) set the frequency of each driver, so this could easily turn out to be a futile attempt to synchronize them in the first place. Still, it would be interesting to see if any pattern emerges in the current configuration.
Having been the Company Designer for Kerry Ultrasonics you did quite well - most people have no idea!
Thank you!
Absolutely amazing video! Super detailed, yet not boring at all. Quite the opposite - I want more stories from Bruce the DIY-ier!
NICE!! I bought a 1 gallon cleaner that timer goes up to 1 hour. But there are many times I reset it while its running and it runs for 2 hours continuously. Been doing it for years. It has a built in heater and a cooling fan. However, The harbor freight cleaner only runs for a few minutes at a time and will go into over heat mode if run for a few cycles without a break. This shows that not all drivers are 100% duty cycle. So be careful here. Mine is apparently 100% and has no overheat indicator, but the harbor freight one I saw does have an overheat lockout and a light lights up. So for less than 10 minutes of cleaning before it activates, I could never use that one.
Love the project and I might try to build one someday because I have the same problem you do. Sometimes I can do half the item and rotate 90 deg and do the other half, but sometimes it just wont fit.
Super helpful to many, I'm sure!
Only niggle, epoxy doesn't 'dry', it cures. 😁
Your talking about denture cream not epoxy LOL How do you think grandma and the aunts kept them in their mouth with all that talking and gossip.
This is one of the most enjoyable videoed I have ever watched on UA-cam. Five stars!! Also, your transparency about the errors was refreshing and helpful. Blessings to you!!
Thank you!
Great info and cool to see your custom build. Crest makes some tall and skinny cleaners great for big PCB's but they're extremely expensive. Something used or custom seems like a great option. BTW, you mentioned some components that can be damaged in an ultrasonic cleaner. Add MEMS oscillators to that list.
HA! that sounded too much like words of experience. Good going, on recommending USED. I have a $975 SharperTEK freq sweeping / heated / degassing unit with 3/4" ball valve drain. I need their unit that is $1,000 more to fit the PS4 / XBox One boards and longer macbook boards. I can't imagine what would make someone let go of a good larger unit. Maybe making our own IS a good option, afterall? These things - NEW, high dollar brand - CAN pay for themselves in the simplest of shops within the first couple of months.
At my work, we're allowed to use the US cleaners for delicate boards, but not allowed to turn on the oscillator.
These delicate boards contain tiny common mode chokes with tiny toroids and tiny enameled copper wire. Which, in the past, have fractured the wire due to the US cleaning action 🙁.
And the other delicate PCBs are the processor boards, which contain an IC (plastic SMD SOIC) that has a crystal inside it. They can break or be dislodged by vibration 🙁
Don't put PCBs in to an ultrasonic bath if they have MLCC capacitors on the pcb. You risk breaking the layers of the dialectric.
@@the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda any board that MLCC should not be cleaned in an ultrasonic bath. Just soak them in a suitable cleaner rinse and dry.
@@ianmontgomery7534 we don't think we've had any problems doing so. MLCCs are used pretty much on every PCB! If we must do as you say, we may as well never use the US cleaners!
I'll certainly give you an "A" for diligence! It sucks that the components gave so much trouble.
And thank you for not having any stupid music in the background!
Fantastic content! Very clear explanation of process and it's always more helpful when the creator is willing to discuss mistakes made. 👍
I didn't know you channel but I find it very interesting...and you english is so perfect and you voice so calm for learn it !
According to Rossman you only get those holes in aluminium foil if there are standing waves, not when there is random cavitation. So the whole reason to buy the expensive cleaners with frequency sweeping is to avoid the standing waves and the damage they can cause. Supposedly. I have yet to find a cleaner with sweep at even close to my price range.
I guess it all depends what you're cleaning. I've cleaned literally hundreds of motherboards/logic boards, and I've never encountered any ultrasonic-related damage.
@@BranchusCreations Yea, I don't hesitate to use it for most things. But when you are trying to fix something there is only 1 or 2 left in the world of I get paranoid.
Thanks for your interesting video I have been fixing all kinds of stuff for over 60 years and I learned new stuff. I admire you tenacity and problem solving skills.
I never knew you could use an ultrasonic to clean circuit boards, I use one for jewellery work and they’re notorious for loosening small stones in their settings and even shattering certain types of gemstones. Emeralds are a good example as they nearly always have fractures within the stone which will cause it to disintegrate. I’m surprised that all those delicate components don’t behave the same way!
Typically for more delicate items, higher frequencies work better. You can maintain the same watt density while reducing effective power per cavitation bubble. This has 2 benefits in that's it's less likely to cause damage and it's more likely to create cavitations that will clean rather than deform. It's like using a brush with thick vs thin bristles while using the same force. You can still use 40KHz, but higher frequencies do tend to work better.
They do behave the same way.
There are a myriad of components you should NOT ultrasonically clean, e.g. crystals and MEMS devices, because they can be degraded or outright pulverised if they happen to resonate on some harmonic of the ultrasonic cleaning energy.
If he did this in a production setting he'd be in for a jolly old spate of field failures.
Some gemstones have sympathetic frequencies. Imagine the old trope of the opera singer and the wine glass. Sadly to find out the frequencies depend on the type of stone, it's cut, size and clarity. So in short can be a hit or miss and experimentation and experience goes into knowing what works.
Wow. What an interesting video!
I don't even plan on using an ultrasonic cleaner but still was on the edge of my seat the entire video ;)
Thank you sir!
Wiring the transducers must be done properly. The center lug is isolated from the shield shell/cone, while the other side is not. Thus the need to ground the tub itself. Before wiring, I always check 1) to see if one if the lugs shorts to the shield/cone, and 2) if the positive of negative wire from the driver connects to ground. If you wire incorrectly, the transducer will not operate, and worse, you've shorted out the driver output.
or overheat a transformer :o)
Great video, very informative, I'm thinking about building my own cleaner but after watching your video I think buying one is the best option as I'm not electrical trained .
Thanks for sharing 👍 best regards Frank
man , those driver circuits are garbage . i also got one and it blew up a couple of times , sometimes only after a few minutes working .replaced parts and it blew again after few runs . there is no point to fix those , as the frequency output is unstable . i'm currently working on my own driver circuit .
You could try putting in an aquarium heater, they have thermostats inside
That's my plan!
WARNING DO NOT IMMERSE ELECTRONIC ITEMS UNLESS YOU CHECK whether the components are suitable for immersion.
A lot of capacitors and other items are not sealed and if you check the manufacturers site it will tell you.
Generally SMD are okay but thru hole need to be checked.
Unless you use a low temp oven you need to immerse in IPA and blow the board off or leave it sit for at least a week in a warm area as moisture can be trapped under chips and when powered you might let the magic smoke out it can be very expensive to put it back again.
Another problem is that ultrasonic cleaning destroys MEMS components. If you have SMD oscillators or sensors on a PCB you should probably verify that they are not MEMS devices first.
Thx. Very interesting. I have an ultrasonic for vinyl records. I understand the bubbles have to be very small to get in the record grooves. I don't think mine are small enough.
Well that was an adventure and a half! Super interesting though. I have noticed with power components bought from China or almost anywhere these days, uses either nearly no heatsink compound, or those thermal rubber isolators. I replaced 1000's of those in radio equipment as part of my career. Mica is the best and only way IMHO. Good job on that!
Best build video I have seen in a long time. Thank you for sharing your experience, including the mistakes and problems.
Great minds think alike. I built my own ultrasonic cleaner by repurposing a small commercial fryer. It uses the same pan and lid, but the sheet metal is substantially thicker. I threw away the heater and used a diesel engine warmer adhesive patch instead. I also designed my own digital heat controller, which includes a timer, for it. You made a few mistakes in your build.
First, you either improperly mixed or didn't allow for sufficient curing of the epoxy. More importantly you used the wrong epoxy. JB Weld cures into a very hard, strong, temperature tolerant, but very brittle layer that will be pulverized by the vibration over time. Epoxy has to be mixed vigorously, and contrary to what you hear, it requires a long curing time (several days) minimum. It also needs a LOT of mixing in the smallest cup you can get away with, preferably a small cough syrup cup. Too large of a cup will make it harder to incorporate the epoxy components completely and evenly. Epoxy likes to be mixed deep rather than wide so it can continually fold in on itself like cake batter. Mix about 3/4 of the cup full for a good mixing depth. I borrowed a few plastic Twizzler sticks from my local Starbucks and chucked one into my drill and stirred it at full blast for two minutes. The color should change after a good mixing.
Second, your application of the epoxy wasn't properly applied. You glued the studs and then glued and screwed on the transducers. If you're not going to weld or braze it on, epoxying it separately won't work. Instead, screw the studs on the transducer so it's flush with the top of the horn. Abrade both the contact area and the horn itself and clean both surfaces with acetone. Add a thin layer of epoxy to both mating surfaces and press the horn firmly on the mating surface until you get a nice bead of glue around the horn. Add some weight to the horns to give it the best chance of adhering. I noticed you feared squeezing out too much glue. This was a mistake since a thick layer of epoxy reduces the cavitation and takes longer to cure. This may explain the electrical issues, for the same reasons you don't run them dry.
Alternatively, stainless steel can be easily brazed. Make sure you buy silver solder and a good liquid flux intended for stainless steel. You can use a torch to braze the stud in place. After cleaning up and abrading the surface and adding the epoxy, screw it tightly to maximize contact.
Which epoxy would you recommend?
Can ultrasound be used to facilitate mixing epoxy or paint?
@@JohnVallevikGreen I'm not sure, but if I were to guess, epoxy is rather viscous making it more difficult for the waves to penetrate. If it does have an effect, it would take quite a bit of time in which the epoxy has already started to set. I'm also not sure about paint, but I guess it would work as it's less viscous. I would air on caution as paint often contains volatile solvents.
With epoxy I thought to stir mix manually and then vibrate it to thoroughly mix and shake loose imbedded bubbles
@@JohnVallevikGreen That applies to epoxy pours where you don't want visible holes or cavities in the molded part. For epoxy used as an adhesive, you need to mix it fast.
I saw your video from the strat till the end. You are fantastic. Thank you for your time.
You don't need to be a pro TIG welder to put those transducers on the stainless. Just buy some silver solder and a propane torch and some proper flux. That stuff sticks to most metals and provides an extremely strong bond.
I wasn't expecting to watch all of that, but I was hooked pretty quick.. very informative and delivery brilliantly 👏
Bruce Wayne?
Shhh, Alfred
@@Weezulguylol
❤ you are extremely clear in yor presentation and speak in a measured tone, that aids understanding. Thanks for sharing your mistakes, as it give us an alternative avenue along which to proceed
Replace your immersion heater with an immersion sous vide cooker, you can adjust the temperature and it circulates the water.
I have been wanting to build myself one for a while now, I have a stainless steel tank already which was originally designed to be a tank in which a fuel bladder would go into for like a drag racing car, just haven't gotten that far yet, right now I'm just about done building a rock crusher so maybe after this.
This reminds me though, back in the early 80s we used to install these pucks in the bottom of new boats since I worked at a yacht dealership back then and the idea was supposed to be that no barnacles or other saltwater marine life would adhere to the surface, ha ha. Needless to say that's the only year that I remember installing them.
What we used to install them though and I still use it a lot today is Marine Tex a two part putty that I have fixed everything with even cracks in engine blocks and cylinder heads. Great job on your project by the way.
I use a VWR Scientific 1290 timer and temp controlled hot water bath. In it there is concentrated CLR, ammonia and distilled water. I agitate the water with a filtration pump loop. My ultrasonic cleaner is made in Michigan by SharperTEK. It's got frequency sweeping, degassing, heat up to 70C. I use Branson EC / distilled water. Again I installed a pump / filter loop. I then soak boards in 50/50 mix of Tetrachloroethylene / N-Hexane. This also has pump and filter loop. Then onto reflow oven at about 150C for 10 minutes. Back in the day we used freon vapor machines. Liquid freon sat in the bottom of the tank. It boiled because room temp. The vapors would rise, hit your board, condense onto your board and fall back down as a liquid. It's not too dissimilar to propane. It did a perfect job. My process usually does better at cleaning but nowhere near as reliable at leaving NO residue. You can always find something to nitpick over if you search under microscope...under chips and such. It has repaired a few problem boards outright, all on it's own.
Sounds cool!
Much better than a 5-minute-crafts video! You actually explain everything!!
This video is brilliant! Very informative and even shows your failures (mostly not your problem) how to repair and very clear instructions! Absolutely 1000/10 video here!
Thank you very much!
3 years or so after buying my ‘ultrasonic’ cleaner…. I have now realised I am not alone in having transducers fall off. Mine landed on my circuitry below and luckily just stopped working without me being giving a ‘home made defib’ jolt. Worked 2.5 times out of the box. Initial results were a revelation. Third’s a charm… is it feck… anyhoo after hearing the rattles once unplugged I disassembled whilst taking loads of photos (probably way too few) and removed the broken(the resin had fractured in the transducer) item and then re boxed it (as delivered) and put it on the shelf. I was a bit shocked at the ‘glue’ being used to secure these key items and directly above the electricktrickery components.. ordered two new transducers and they were placed on the shelf where I keep my spares. Both the box with the cleaner in it and the transducers have not moved a millimetre since.
Now maybe, I can attempt a repair. Hate electrically got zapped as a toddler sat on me potty… extension cable sockets are a deadly trap for a young boy who is ‘downloading’ his last meal… plus a front loading washing machine on the spin cycle at the other end.
Changing batteries in a torch gets me sweating.! A
Great video and very well explained I am now ‘subscribed’…
Back in the late 80’s I used what was termed a “scintillator’ to clean the lab stuff that we used. Still talk about how great they were at getting stuff clean- work in finance now and sadly lost my connection with science, but love these beautifully explained vids that make me yearn for my lost days. Anyway , keep up the great work!
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Excellent video. The way u explain everything is top notch. Well done.
Very interesting! I use ultrasonic cleaning for almost all my projects and it is a lifesaver.