Classic vs NEW space opera
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Up until the late 1950s one of the most popular types of science fiction was the pulp era space opera. These were often bombastic, galaxy-spanning space adventures that featured impossible science, colossal weapons, interstellar wars and galactic empires in a grandiose style adventure.
As always, thanks for watching!
#spaceopera #sciencefiction #booktube
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MY STUFF
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MY SCI-FI NOVELS
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DELPHINE DESCENDS
After her family is killed and her homeworld occupied, young Kathreen Martin is sent to the distant world of Furoris for re-education. She will live the rest of her life as a serf - to be bought and sold as a commodity of the Imperial Network.
When her only chance of escape is ruined, a chance mistaken identity offers her a new life as the orphaned daughter of a First-Citizen Senator and heiress to a vast fortune.
She vows to claw her way into power to sit among the worlds’ elite. Then, with her own hands, she will reap bloody vengeance on them all.
But to beat them, she must play their game. And she must play it better than them all.
BLACK MILK
Prometheus has the chance to bring his wife back from the dead, but doing so will mean the destruction of Earth.
Spanning time, planets and dimensions, Black Milk draws to a climactic point in a post-apocalyptic future, where humanity, stranded with no planet to call home, fights to survive against a post-human digital entity that pursues them through the depths of space.
Five lives separated by aeons are inextricably linked by Prometheus’s actions:
Ystil.3 is an AI unit sent back in time from the distant future to investigate Prometheus’s discovery...
The mysterious Lydia has devoted her life to finding a planet that the last remaining humans can call home…
Tom Jones (he’s a HUGE fan!) is an AI trapped inside a digital subspace, lost and desperate to find his way back to his beloved in real-time…
Dr Norma Stanwyck is a neuroscientist from 24th Century Earth whose personal choices ripple throughout time...
Prometheus must learn the necessity of death or the entire universe will be swallowed by his grief.
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GOODREADS
You can stalk me on Goodreads to see what I'm currently reading. bit.ly/3rrcByD
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IMAGE USE
The images in my videos are mostly licensed stock photos. However, occasionally I will use images found online. I always seek to properly credit artists and offer a link back to their amazing work but sometimes it's hard to find the original source of the work. If I've used an image you own and I haven't credited you, please feel free to get in touch as I am always more than happy to do so.
You knocked this out of the park. I know it takes a lot of time and effort scripting what you want to say - but this will be a fantastic long tail / evergreen video for SCI-FI fans to forward to other potential readers for years (hopefully decades) to come.
This is quality reference material. Thank you so much.
You’re welcome and thank you for watching. 🙏🙏🙏
This is brilliant work, Darrel... your videos always inspire me to read something new^^
Thanks! 🙏 I’m glad you get inspiration! I love making people’s already impossible reading lists even longer 😇
I was born in 1950 and was subscribing to sci-fi magazines like Amazing Stories and Isaac Asimov’s Science Fiction Magazine by the time I was 10. What a joy to grow up in the Golden Age of Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, and so many others. While I enjoy many of the more recent books I still go back to The Foundation series, The City and the Stars, and The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress from time to time.
I almost never see Olympos or Ilium mentioned. I've always enjoyed those two. I guess they get overshadowed by the Hyperion Cantos, which I do like more, but those are still a couple of great books.
Thx for all the reading suggestions!
You’re welcome. Hope you enjoy them 😄
Thank you Darell. I always learn something new.🤖
Glad you mentioned Simmons Illium. Those 2 books are just incredible and deserve as much praise as the hyperion books.
The books from Banks and Hamilton really got Space Opera to a new level. I loved the Edenist and Adamist cultures in the Nights Dawn trilogy and the Culture had put the idea of a civilization in space to a new level.
Love your vids. Just started reading A Fire Upon the Deep, it's so good. Closest other book to The Culture series I've found yet...
🙏 thanks for the recommendation. I’ll check it out!
@@Sci-FiOdyssey Definitely read the Fire. or any Vernor Vinge for that matter.
If i could live in a sci fi future, id definitely choose Peter F. Hamiltons commonwealth. Its beautiful.
Biological immortality, thousands of planets to explore, aliens, mysterys yet to unravel, and that's all in one section of one galaxy. Everybody is a beautiful superhuman perpetually in their early 20s.
I desperately wish humanity will reach that stage. Unfortunately i think we are all gonna die on this rock. Good thing there's at least fictional universes to experience like the Commonwealth.
Thanks for making this, it was educational and fun. I’ve been enjoying Sun Eater by Ruocchio and The Spiral Wars by Shepherd, which I think both count as space opera. I’m hoping to get to the Culture at some point, I tried Hyperion earlier this year and didn’t finish it.
I greatly enjoy these videos. I always learn so much.
Great video and tattoos.
👍
I am always looking forward to your videos and suggestions. And I am never disappointed! Thank you so much!
Thanks so much for watching and sharing my passion!
Fabulous, touched on most of my current favorite writers and series. Thanks
I think David Brin's Uplift series was the first time I felt like I was revisiting actual space opera after having not seen any for years.
Awesome stuff Darrel, thanks! It's so nice to see someone mention M. John Harrison. He's an author that I think is sadly overlooked. Be well dude!
Thanks!🙏 I’m hoping to do a bit more on him in the future!
Thanks for the overview! It’s interesting to note the timing of scientific discoveries with relation to the publication dates. It wasn’t until the 1920’s, for instance, that Hubble discovered that we were living in one galaxy out of many. Before that, the galaxy and the universe were synonymous.
I’m just starting to read sci-fi (at 62) and chose The Foundation trilogy as my first (though I did read The Andromeda Strain, 2001, and A Wrinkle in Time earlier in life). I’m planning to read Dune and Hyperion next, as they seem to be universally acknowledged as must-read classics. All three of these, from what I can gather, could be classified as space operas. I was surprised you didn’t mention any of them in this video. I’d be interested to know if you think they are space operas, and what features cause you to classify them.
Thanks a lot!
Thanks a lot! Terrific talk about a favourite topic. I am currently rereading the night's dawn trilogy, which I read as they came out.
Don't forget the Polity novels by Neal Asher!😊
I recommend the "spiral wars" series. It's space opera, I'm up to date with the latest book and I still enjoy it.
This book acutally brings up some intelligent questions and ideas every so often for example how different evolutionary traits of different spieces in the galaxy lead to different values and therefore government types. Every species has its own identity and its throughout and fleshed our very well. Why certain spices need to lean towards assassinations while another favors outright warfare and does it on a ceremonial basis.
All the characters are great too! They get fleshed out more in every book you see character development.
A little surprised you didn't mention CJ Cherryh's Alliance/Union novels, but otherwise found this very informative.
I think he's a touch sexist.
Your history videos are most well made and enjoyable - I thank you for making them. _I have so much Sci Fi to catch up on!_
I'm just wondering; surely Foundation and Dune (though I know you've other videos about them) are defined as Space Opera and factor in to this story as hugely influential? Somewhere between classic and modern. I think you were more interested in talking about newer, lesser known works and how they changed convention, but going through the history, it felt like a big omission - maybe Star Wars to, but it's not a book, and it wasn't changing story so much as leaning into older ones, so I can see it not being so relevant for a short comparison video.
Thank you! I know the feeling. My reading list gets exponentially longer. I agree Foundation and Dune certainly are influential in new space opera- hugely so. But for this video I wanted to focus on those books that influenced the change itself and what that change meant. I try to get the main points into each video and keep it (somewhat) succinct.
Saved to my watch list, great reference material.
Hello Darrel, just wanna point out that you haven't mention Arthur C Clarke in this video, not even once 😀😀.
By the way I love your all videos. Your narration style is engaging, unique and smooth. This channel always encouraged me to read more.
Thanks! I’m glad you like my videos! For this video I try to focus more on New Space Opera from the 90s onwards and influences on the change in style. Of course if I was going into classics more there’s no way I could avoid ACC. I never need much of an excuse to talk ACC 😂
Thanks Darrel! Always great to watch your ideas and reviews! I'm getting ready to dive into Greg Egan's Orthogonal trilogy... Hihihi my brain will hurt.
Haha! Good luck dude 🤯
Great video.
Yup, good stuff. I only stumbled across your channel a little while ago but I look forward to each video.
Is that on "old" Apple 27" Thunderbolt display on your desk?
Thanks!! Haha - good eye sir. He doesn’t like to be called “old” though 🤣
I put quotation marks around "old" in an effort to show that I didn't really mean it was old old, a poor choice of words on my behalf. No offence intended.
None taken mate. I have to face facts… he’s no spring chicken anymore 😀
Great content as always. I'm trying to catch up to my Space Opera TBR, I'm going to tackle The Expanse this year. As I'm a slow reader, it'll take a while.
I need to get back on the Expanse train too. Stopped reading because the tv show was so good and close to the books. Now the tv show is over I think the time has come!!!!
@@Sci-FiOdyssey haha, awesome! I have a secret pact with myself that I wouldn't watch adaptations unless I read the books! I've read Leviathan Wakes and it was amazing. Waiting for my copy of Caliban's War at the moment. Love this series, as someone writing a space opera, I admire James S. A. Corey duo!
Do you consider Vernor Vinge's three book series, starting with "A fire upon the deep"' to be space opera?
It is helpful to have these things explained! Very good work!
I recommend the book musketeer space. It's a sci fi retelling of the three musketeers
The Culture novels are the reason science fiction was invented.
Evan Currie has 2 good space opera series, both rooted in military scifi.
Very interesting, as always, thanks! Have you done a video on Utopian sci-fi (if such a genre exists)? If not, I would love to see your take on it
Thank you. No, I haven’t touched utopian fiction too much but it’s an interesting one 🤔
At the risk of sounding Hagalian, I think a bit of both is probably the way to go. Classic space operas, but with a does of realism and shades of grey, without completely abandoning everything the classics did (especially avoiding going full nihilistic relativism like arguing that there is no such things as good and evil).
Huge fan of Peter F Hamilton here, both the Commonwealth books, and the sequel Void books, and the Night's Dawn books.
I would be tempted to mention Aasimov's Foundation. I'd also be tempted to mention Stephen R Donaldson. He wrote The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, which is not space opera at all, but he also wrote the Gap series, which is absolute classic long large-form space opera, with exaggerated heroes and villains and a female victim so attractive every nasty male in the galaxy wants a part of her.
Dune is an whole different thing. On some levels that's also space opera, on others... It is kind of a cautionary tale about not trusting heroes or leaders, about the way we see characters and who is a hero and who is a villain and why. The God-Emperor Leto, was regarded for millennia as a villain, like we regard Hitler, but he wasn't.
Truly quality editing and informative video. A really underrated channel, have you ever heard of a sub genre called “humans are space orcs” story’s?
I haven’t but I’m intrigued!!!
I highly recommend reading Kevin J Andersons Saga of the Seven Suns. Such an amazing story covering many factions and characters all aiming to achieve their own goals with the most satisfying conclusion
Thanks, I’ll check it out 👍
Thank you.
You should talk about Planetary Romance. NO ONE is doing that.
I'm pleased you gave Ken MacLeod a decent shout. He also has a reasonable collection of soap-opera-esque work, although often with a very socialist view.
This video presents one view of the history of S-F……just not mine.
i have tried reading some of the books you talked about, the only ones i enjoyed were the culture books the rest i did not enjoy.
🚀 Fabulous work as always 👏 I adore #SpaceOpera and there were a few early examples here that I need to have a look at 🧐
What do you think of Legends of the Galactic Hero as a space opera
Since he hasn't replied I think it is fantastic space opera, but I'd put it under more of a classic mode than the new, it ventures out into that new space a bit, but at heart it's still in that conservative mold
The Lensmen Series still rocks.
So new Space Opera was Chaucer....but is now Dashiell Hammet meets David Foster Wallace?
Love the tshirt :)
"The Israeli world government"
Talk about a nightmarish dystopian future.
Just out of curiosity, how do you look at the Honor Harrington books by David Weber?
I'm not sure if you're interested in self published writers, but if you are, I really wish you'd check out Evan Currie's Odyssey One series. It's awesome and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. Awesome and informative video!
Hi Darrel, I really enjoy your videos, but I find the "click" audio you put on the Like and Subscribe animations really distracting. It may just be me, but wanted to highlight it. I appreciate the need to encourage such actions, which the animation (with or without audio) certainly does.
I’m glad you enjoy my videos and thanks for the feedback! 🙏
I started reading Consider Phlebas but I found it far too slow, and when things did happen, they were simply not captivating. Maybe I should try again...
Good insights! I’m a bit intimidated by the big series. What one-offs do you recommend?
The "culture series" isn't a series, it's a number of books set in the same universe. You can read any of them individually but they're a bit dense for a starter. Don't be intimidated by the length of a series, just check out the first book and see if you enjoy it, If you do, you'll want more, and carry on. Then, a long series is a feature, not a bug.
It is impossible to get published in "Analog".
Dune?
Olympus and ilium are for me simmons best work. About as good as any Banks' novels. Reynolds' books are amazingly narrow and gothic. You never have the idea of space opera. Hammilton is too new agy.
Amazing vid as always, Darrell. I deeply envy your enciclopedic knowledge of sci-fi.
I’ve been meaning to ask you something: being a gay man, it has always seemed strange to me the almost absolute lack of gay male protagonists in space opera and sci fi in general. There are a lot of queer female characters (specially in recent novels), but almost no male gay characters.
Why do you think this is? And do any of the space operas you have referenced in this video, for instance, have male gay main characters?
It’s very rewarding to me to feel represented in the works of fiction I read (or watch), and at some point you get tired of the hero falling in love with the beautiful young lady of the story…
Thanks!!
Hey Andrés!
I'm a gay man too, and I agree, we don't get many gay characters in sci-fi! Darrel must make us a video about LGBTQ+ characters in sci-fi, I'd even read a bad book if it had an interesting gay character in it lolll
In Frank Herbert's Dune series, there was one mention of LGBTQ+ issues, when the God Emperor explained why homosexual behavior was beneficial to the species. It was a really interesting chapter, but still far from having a gay main character loll. Though for the time it was written, I suppose it was very progressive.
Greg Egan has a really cool approach of gender and sexuality in Schild's Ladder. Humans in the future no longer have genitals! Many have favorite pronouns, but there's no distinction between genders at all. Some humans don't even have bodies, living as information in quantum computers, so for them, sex and gender are just old historical concepts.
@@askani21 Hi! I too would read a bad book if it had an interesting gay character in it. And I remember that chapter in God Emperor!
Thanks🙏although I have to admit my knowledge isn’t that encyclopaedic and more the result of a lot of research. Shhh - don't tell anyone.
Thanks for your interesting question. Tbh I haven’t come across many gay main characters in the sci-fi I’ve read but I know there are more than ever in new sff published today. But you might be right in that a lot of these are female aimed at a female audience. Many of these don't seem to capture what I look for in sci-fi so I haven't read them. I did read A Memory Called Empire which included a gay female storyline (at least I think that's where it was going) but I didn't get on with it so I didn't read the second book.
As a gay man myself, I have to say it’s not something I actively look for in the sff books I read. If I was to guess why there aren’t many then it’s probably because of writers writing with their target audience in mind. Nothing wrong with that imo. As long as the characters interest me I don’t care what sexual orientation the writers make them.
Bit of self promo: I include a gay male main character in my most recent book, Delphine Descends.
Forgot to say, if you're interested, the Forever War by Joe Haldeman includes a gay male character in an interesting part of the story that looks at adjusting to a society that has moved on without you.
@@askani21 "In Frank Herbert's Dune series, there was one mention of LGBTQ+ issues, when the God Emperor explained why homosexual behavior was beneficial to the species." - that WAS an interesting part. Kurt Vonnegut tackles a similar theme in a part of Slaughterhouse Five.
@@Sci-FiOdyssey Thank you so much for your kind (and complete) answer. I will defintely check out Delphine Descends (which I just got on Amazon) and The Forever War has been on my to-read list for, well… forever. I tried a Memory Called Empire but I couldn’t finish it, it just didn’t interest me.
The book that I did like was “Black Leopard, Red Wolf”, by Marlon James. I am currently reading the sequel “Moon Witch, Spider King”. Thanks again and contratulations on your amazing channel!
I am curious, do you consider Frank Herbert’s original Dune books Old Space Opera.? ….and does adding in all of Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson’s books make it “New”?
💫🪐Wieder mehr interessante Bücher auf der Leseliste und so wenig Zeit.🪐💫Viele liebe Grüße aus Deutschland 🖖🏻
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I’m looking for swords and magic (think Star Wars) any good, fairly recent (2010s and later) recs I’ve just read To Sleep in a Sea of Stars and it was…okay. Paolini really does need to polish writing style otherwise I would be showering it with praise- maybe.
Try Naomi noviks Deadly Education series
Penetrating insight into the "Evolution?" of Science Fiction.
I began reading SF at 8, 1963. The Space Race was a major news topic; and JFK, The Brits and many others were eyeing the Moon, in fear of The Soviets setting a missile base, there.
The School and Public Libraries were full of Golden Age SF, and I read about 10 novels a month besides anthologies, plus subscriptions to Galaxy, Astounding (Analog), Worlds of If, Amazing, F & SF off and on for years. Slowing to about half that intake 9th grade, due to wrestling, track, Summer track/jobs. I still had a paperback Heinlein, Clarke, Van Vogt, Asimov, Laumer, etc. in my textbooks during class: At the end of each year my teachers gave them back to me in boxes! I was teased a lot about this..
I noticed a major change in both Magazine and book SF beginning about 1972.
Keith Laumer, who had kept hard SF alive with quite a bit of Philisophical content and humor, had a stroke in 1971, ending his considerable output. Larry Niven and a few others were still producing, though. But, SF slowly became morose pessimism and very hard Left. Most of the magazines failed, Analog maintained a hard SF faction. Asimov's started with some humor and hard SF, then followed the path of low readership after a few years.
That is not to say I found no SF that was interesting, anymore. But, it was mostly depressing and about people, cultures and Civilizations that I considered marginal, at best. The sense of Wonder was gone. Most Classic SF are cautionary tales, and can be quite horrific (1984, The Weapon Shops of Isher, A Plague of Demons, etc.). But, a lot of it also promoted optimism, equal for all Civil Rights, ethics, intelligent national political economy, personal responsibility and raising all boats to higher standards of living.
I mostly gave up on new "SF ?" in the mid 1990s. I still thumb through the now tiny SF sections in bookstores and find something to read in Analog or Asimov's, occasionally. I would certainly be interested in reading anything new you or anyone else would recommend.
I started reading SF a year after you, and I could have written the exact comment you wrote (were I more articulate). When I look at what's called SF these days I can only shake my head. It's a mix of apocalypses with a brave hero struggling on a journey across a wasteland to rescue/meet someone (is there a law that they all have to do this?), a teenager who discovers they're actually a lot fairy/elf/wizard who must become king/save the world, etc. or sword and sorcery. There's very little SF being written and some of the best writers have joined the pessimism club, like Kim Stanley Robinson. His early books were some of the best SF ever written, but then he became obsessed with climate doom and I stopped reading. Some of Neal Stephenson's books are amobg the best I've ever read, in various sub-genres, such as Seveneves, The Diamond Age, Cryptonomicon and Anathem. There's very little new material I've found interesting, so I am going back and looking for items I missed when new, like the Culture series and Alastair Reynolds, there are still treasures to be found.
@Don Johnson Agreed.
Does anyone remember Steven Caldwell and Stewart Cowley or even Steven Eisler?
Those were those art books. Yeah I vaguely remember them, pretty and interesting but not enough of a story as I recall
There was also Stewart Cowley and Paper Tiger Ltd.
Poor Baxter, you passed right through his works
Hmmm I haven't read many Baxter admittedly, but I always considered him more hard sci-fi. Do you have any SB space opera recommendations I can check out?
12:20 - I agree - I am not a great fan of Hamilton.
No love for red rising?
No Polity :(
is dune new or old if at all?
Curious if you’ve read any of the #pulprev works in space opera? It’s a reaction to modern “tradpub” trends, explicitly reviving the classic pulp sensibility.
I haven’t but I’m always grateful for recommendations!
It's pronounced Mac Cloud !! - and I'm not a Macleod, Im a MacBride ! - and not mention of the worst form of the Space Opera the Honor Harrington series Parts of Which I absolutely Despise or Simon R Greens 'Deathstalker'
Umm, I thought trashy space opera was invented by Lucas in Star Wars …
Buck frigging Rogers
So they mirror the fall of civilization
The problem with a lot of sci-fi (particularly space opera) is it's badly written - bordering on unreadable. No problems with Banks or M. John Harrison or Dan Simmons all of whom have a literary style (even if Harrison can be a bit indigestible at times). But you're really getting into some pretty bad prose when you are talking about Peter F. Hamilton, Stephen Baxter and Alastair Reynolds, in particular. The big test for me is - can you read a novel again and not give up on it before the end? I've absolutely no wish to trawl through 3,000+ pages of the Reality Dysfunction trilogy (which was wearing thin on the first read). With Baxter I gave up on the FIRST read of all of his books. I recently tried Reynolds' "Chasm City" series again and it really struck me how the quality dropped off dramatically after the initial book and by "Absolution Gap" I just thought it was trash. Tried a couple of his other titles - gave up before the end. IMO, a lot of writers are influenced heavily by Banks' Culture series and seek to emulate those stories without ever realising that Banks was a damned good writer who understood literary form.
Reynolds has his moments of greatness though. Everything related to the shroud in Revelation Space is beautifully written
@@DestructorN7 Yeah, RS is the best of that series by a considerable margin. My guess is it's because he worked on it the longest. But Absolution Gap was godawful. Although not quite as bad as the only book outside of the Chasm City series of his I read - "Pushing Ice". People have been given prison sentences for better prose. I blame the push by publishers for serialization. Every second sci-fi book these days is "Book N of the X series". When authors are paid by volume quality always suffers. And Reynolds really was at the tip of the spear for this model.
@@deaddropholiday I love seeing a new book advertised as "book 1 of a 12 part series". They've already plotted out the revenue stream, if not the books.
Never defines the term 'opera'
Hmm, just because it's new doesn't make it good. Twenty volume long series of house brick sized tomes just screams to me a lack of editing skills more than anything. I'm very fond of the low maximum word counts of the pulps. Great stand alone classics were written in under 200 pp. Advance the story, don't clutter it up with digressions about the failed love life of the third under footman unless he is the protagonist or antagonist. The rule of Chekov's gun should prevail.
Okay, but is there any space opera that isn't gay?