There is a poverty of Banks summaries on the internet. I need more people to make more movies to let people know about the most consistently awesome SF series
there is a scarcity due to the fact it's not as great as you perceive it to be, you have a very subjective and biased opinion, which hinders you to realize the truth about the actual value of these SF books
@@AtticusDenzil You know what else is scarce? Geniuses, Polymaths, truly ethical and honest people, efficiency, truth, great food etc, and yet there is an abundance of the mediocre...just like -your-self.
@@MuantanamoMobile Vote for me in 2024 and I'll make those scarcities go away. The world will be abundant with geniuses, polymaths, food, ethical, and self aware human beings.
I swear, your videos and Quinn's ideas have reignited my passion for readin sci-fi, my life is eally empty but I can't describe how much these stories and worlds mean to me and how happy I am to discover new ones through your videos, thank you for sharing your passion so much!
There aren't a whole lot of UA-cam videos on the culture so this is really appreciated. I love to hear more about this. I'll definitely be referencing this video on some of my comments on Isaac Arthur's videos.
Good video, if my memory serves me correct one reason why the Idiran’s lost was the Culture was a space based race thus the Idiran’s could never hope to occupy the culture. As the Idiran's expanded as they chased after the culture, the occupation of more and more planets stretched their military capacity to breaking point. The Idiran’s also initially received minimal support from a far superior race, which resembled the Idiran race. When against all odds the culture destroyed one of their space craft, they withdrew from the war. I am not certain if it was in this novel, but the culture also destroyed one of their own mega structures which could not be moved, which indicated to all the culture were serious.
That was Consider Phlebas I think. The first in the series. The Culture was ceding territory while building up their military might. They evacuated a massive orbital ring then destroyed it so that the Idirans couldn't use it.
I don't remember the name of the species, but it was more that the Culture was destroying too many of their ships that they pulled out of the war...though the implication in the book was that they weren't that onboard with the Idirans to begin with. Vavatch, which Bora visits in the book, is the orbital destroyed, though from my understanding it wasn't really a Culture orbital in the traditional sense, but one that was more of an 'international city/clearing house' under the Culture's protection. They blew it up because they didn't want the Idirans to occupy it.
What I like about the numbers aspect that you mentioned at the beginning (an appendix in the book) is that it goes to show that for as soft the sci-fi in the Culture novels could be, Banks grasped the immensity of the galaxy. _Yes_ to the likes of Bora and the Free Company and the Culture agents, the Idiran war was a massive affair. In the grand scheme of both the size of the galaxy and time, it was comparatively small. It's what hooked me on the series, as it acknowledges how big a space-faring civilisation really would be.
Consider Phlebas was the first Culture book I read, in 2013. Maybe its finally time I can re-read this book again, because I don't remember all of these details of the Culture-Idiran war. Was this information all revealed within Consider Phlebas, or was it gathered from mentions throughout the Culture series? And wow, some of these war decisions are relatable to current events.
There is a detailed post - war report at the end of the book with plenty of details like casualties, orbitals, planets and suns destroyed... There could also be some info in " Look to Windward" too..
I too would like to know how much of this came from Banks stories and how much was extrapolation and invention. In any case I quite enjoyed the video and "future history".
The Consider Phlebas appendices contain a lot of detailed information on the war and the reasons for it. I actually really appreciated that Banks didn’t bog down the story itself with exposition but made the information available to the reader.
@@Sci-FiOdyssey Thanks. Ya know, I am guilty of only briefly skimming appendices after reading a book. Which is probably why some of your details surprised me. And admittedly, the grand themes of the Culture was lost on me during that first book. Another reason to re-read Phlebus after finishing the series, since the details of the appendices would be of greater interest now. Thanks again, for your videos. This is twice now, that your videos have prompted a re-read (Hyperion) for me.
Oddly, I would like more videos like this detailing the big picture with minor and major spoilers as I like to get a full picture even after I completed the book. Too many videos are "spoiler free" for pre-viewers and not enough for post viewers.
A quibble, however. The Culture was and remained somewhat ambivalent about the need for war, but it was inevitable given the religious nature of the Idirans. Sooner or later they would have had designs on regions of the Culture and acted on them. The Culture could not have avoided a war with the Idirans.
There's a chilling scene at the end of the book which is one of my favourite chapters of any book just because of how visceral it is, think it was Banks trying to show just how little chance the Idirans stood, it is not the soldiers who decided this war it was liberalism applied to warfare
@@treacherousjslither6920 it's from the end of consider phlebas as far as I can remember but I'm starting to question my sanity because I can't find it online anywhere, that might just be because it's inconsequential to the plot of the main characters though, I'll have to dig the book out and find the chapter. I remember there is a chapter where a secret Idiran base is assaulted by a single culture drone initially disguised as an Idiran made out of nanites, and I don't think anyone on the base survives
@@jackjones7062 I think that scene happens in Look To Windward. I have the book i'll check. Yes the last chapter Closure before the epilogue. A Culture shape-shifting nanite swarm in the form of a chelgrian female infiltrates their base and brutally murks the two key elements in the Masaq assassination attempt. It somehow knew what their greatest fears were and executed them in that fashion. The Culture can be quite terrifying when they put their minds (heh) to it. Like the kind of stuff that Grey Area gets up to in Excession. Scary.
Great Channel. I'm lucky to have found you! Please make more content on the culture, I am sure we will see a movie for this series soon! It is becoming vastly popular after Elon's reference for it and grok large language model.
Yeah the Homadan were thought to be too advanced/ powerful for anyone to mess with I remember one of the Culture agents believing this. But not true I guess ..
Initially, the Homomda were indeed superior to the Culture, but the Culture has always had a major advantage over many other civilisations - the Minds. The machines can replicate and advance themselves at a rate that no biological being is capable of doing which is what happened during the war as the Minds started upgrading themselves and the whole war fleet at such a rate that they rapidly overtook the more advanced Homomda. On a much smaller scale, we will see happening on Earth soon when the AI matches our own intelligence first and then rapidly leaves us far behind.
An interesting summary, but a key point about the religious beliefs was that AI must be subservient to Idirans. Whereas in the culture AIs "the minds" were full citizens of the culture. This really reflects the times we are in now, as many worry about AIs and what it means for us. Also one of the main reasons the Idirans lost the war was that their ships/weapons could not be given full AI control. So they were slower to react than the culture minds. This is a lesser point than as you say 'the reason for the culture's existence'. I enjoyed your summary.
I can't believe this is the first time I'm putting it together but that one game of Azad in Player of Games is literally the tabletop version of the Idiran war
no, the Azad empire was an actual civilization that used a game to determine one's position within their society. their society was pretty cruel. think the roman empire.
Close actually. The reason why Gurgeh won the final game was that he naturally fell into the culture method of fighting a war that prevailed against the Idirans.
@@lordblazer It's also a critique of meritocracy when the starting conditions are so different. If you had tutors and all your free time available to learn this game you could advance but you needed a lot for that. The best of the classes that had that time and money would rise but if you exceptional but socially lower it was hard, the woman who was good but couldn't play her hardest because it would cause too many waves and the men/apex would have her killed. The poorer couldn't even ante in because they didn't have the time or money. Ian M Banks writing always had that extra depth. He really though about the set ups. They're less paper thin than so much of scifi.
You neglected to mention an event near the end of the Idiran war, one that haunted Culture for centuries: the battle of twin novae. After Idirans sued for cease-fire, Culture refused, demanding unconditional surrender. in the following hostilities Idirans induced the suns of two inhabited systems to go nova, killing many billions. Culture forever blamed themselves for that. The commemoration of the event, on the occasion of the light of those novae reaching Masaq' orbital, is the introductory event to "Look to Windward", a kind of "other bookend" novel to "Consider Phlebas", which took place at the height of Idiran war. The latter novel describes a tragic fiasco by Contact, who provoked a cataclysmic civil war on Chel, and also committed something unthinkable, a hinted at retaliation for the attempt to murder Masaq' Mind, under the motto "You don't fuch with Culture!"
@@paulklee5790 It was very uncharacteristic of Culture, and some of us fans (there was a lively on-line community at the time, still on UseNet) believed it showed Banks' doubts in viability of his creation.
@@Tao_Tology He did, and the Culture always had a kind of "dark side", but from _LtW_ that dark side is increasingly visible. Of course, it never approaches, even remotely, the level of travesty displayed by _our_ civilization, but still...
I read Consider Phlebas and I can't say I got as much depth as this describes XD Are there other books or content that explains the lore of the war better? Or did I just not piece clues together while reading Phlebas?
Pausing for a moment.. May I ask if this vid spoils Look to Windward? I am gonna read that next after Excession, but don't wanna spoil myself thru this vid although it looks interesting.
Im on book 8. If I watch this, will I have to hunt you down for not giving a spoiler alert? Perosteck, I need your service, maybe. Ok, finished the series. Now I can watch all the pertaining videos.
Oy, I resent the Y-Wing, this is not about Star Wars! 😉Anyway, this would make a much better sci-fi movie series than SW... Thank you for the coprehensive look at the conflict.
Weren't the affronters a less tech advanced warlike societry than the Culture ? They're the species that stole some Culture warships and went after the vastly superior Alien artifact in the book Excession right ?
Yes but they were kind of tricked into doing it by the Interesting Times Gang. A bunch of Culture Minds that wanted the Affront gone and tried to get them to start a war with the Culture as a means of execution.
Not so. The plot of the book occurs with the war in the background. The plot follows Bora, neither Idiran nor Culture, as he pretty much just tries to stay alive as a mercenary. It does not focus primarily on the war itself. This video gives no spoilers to the storyline of the book beyond the fact that the Idirans eventually lose.
It's more the protagonist - Horza - whose pissed off about AI. He's shown to be a bit of a hypocrite given the fact his race - the Changers - were artificially created for war.
@@treacherousjslither6920 And do you agree with horza? Banks makes a pretty good case for the AI minds, not that they'd be suitable in our society right now but that machine intelligence can have liberating impact under the anarcho communist setting of the culture.
@@kaspermcleish5255 I disagree with Horza. The Culture Minds are doing a fine job. I understand his reasoning though. Organics simply can't compete. Fear of obsolescence.
@@kaspermcleish5255 Also I think the Minds would be great for our society. They could figure out how to run things better than we can. The only problem would be getting us all to listen to them and to do as they suggest. Many people would take the route of Horza.
I wonder just how vast their numbers of minds , biological beings , ships planets were then ? The number of biological and non biological beings on each orbital was vast.
The Culture could no more avoid the war with the Iridians than the West can avoid the war with Islam. The parallels are not coincidental as Banks was exploring this very conundrum with this novel.
There is a poverty of Banks summaries on the internet. I need more people to make more movies to let people know about the most consistently awesome SF series
there is a scarcity due to the fact it's not as great as you perceive it to be, you have a very subjective and biased opinion, which hinders you to realize the truth about the actual value of these SF books
@@AtticusDenzil You know what else is scarce? Geniuses, Polymaths, truly ethical and honest people, efficiency, truth, great food etc, and yet there is an abundance of the mediocre...just like -your-self.
@@MuantanamoMobile Vote for me in 2024 and I'll make those scarcities go away. The world will be abundant with geniuses, polymaths, food, ethical, and self aware human beings.
@@AtticusDenzil You've added fuck all to the debate except some wierd hater vibes. What's wrong with the culture series in your eyes?
I swear, your videos and Quinn's ideas have reignited my passion for readin sci-fi, my life is eally empty but I can't describe how much these stories and worlds mean to me and how happy I am to discover new ones through your videos, thank you for sharing your passion so much!
Same for me.
I’ve enjoyed both as well!
There aren't a whole lot of UA-cam videos on the culture so this is really appreciated. I love to hear more about this. I'll definitely be referencing this video on some of my comments on Isaac Arthur's videos.
Good video, if my memory serves me correct one reason why the Idiran’s lost was the Culture was a space based race thus the Idiran’s could never hope to occupy the culture. As the Idiran's expanded as they chased after the culture, the occupation of more and more planets stretched their military capacity to breaking point. The Idiran’s also initially received minimal support from a far superior race, which resembled the Idiran race. When against all odds the culture destroyed one of their space craft, they withdrew from the war. I am not certain if it was in this novel, but the culture also destroyed one of their own mega structures which could not be moved, which indicated to all the culture were serious.
That was Consider Phlebas I think. The first in the series. The Culture was ceding territory while building up their military might. They evacuated a massive orbital ring then destroyed it so that the Idirans couldn't use it.
I don't remember the name of the species, but it was more that the Culture was destroying too many of their ships that they pulled out of the war...though the implication in the book was that they weren't that onboard with the Idirans to begin with.
Vavatch, which Bora visits in the book, is the orbital destroyed, though from my understanding it wasn't really a Culture orbital in the traditional sense, but one that was more of an 'international city/clearing house' under the Culture's protection. They blew it up because they didn't want the Idirans to occupy it.
What I like about the numbers aspect that you mentioned at the beginning (an appendix in the book) is that it goes to show that for as soft the sci-fi in the Culture novels could be, Banks grasped the immensity of the galaxy. _Yes_ to the likes of Bora and the Free Company and the Culture agents, the Idiran war was a massive affair. In the grand scheme of both the size of the galaxy and time, it was comparatively small. It's what hooked me on the series, as it acknowledges how big a space-faring civilisation really would be.
I love these Culture lore videos, please keep making them!
Consider Phlebas was the first Culture book I read, in 2013. Maybe its finally time I can re-read this book again, because I don't remember all of these details of the Culture-Idiran war. Was this information all revealed within Consider Phlebas, or was it gathered from mentions throughout the Culture series?
And wow, some of these war decisions are relatable to current events.
There is a detailed post - war report at the end of the book with plenty of details like casualties, orbitals, planets and suns destroyed...
There could also be some info in " Look to Windward" too..
I too would like to know how much of this came from Banks stories and how much was extrapolation and invention. In any case I quite enjoyed the video and "future history".
@@holydissolution85 Thank You
The Consider Phlebas appendices contain a lot of detailed information on the war and the reasons for it. I actually really appreciated that Banks didn’t bog down the story itself with exposition but made the information available to the reader.
@@Sci-FiOdyssey Thanks. Ya know, I am guilty of only briefly skimming appendices after reading a book. Which is probably why some of your details surprised me.
And admittedly, the grand themes of the Culture was lost on me during that first book. Another reason to re-read Phlebus after finishing the series, since the details of the appendices would be of greater interest now.
Thanks again, for your videos. This is twice now, that your videos have prompted a re-read (Hyperion) for me.
Please continue to explain The Culture.
Oddly, I would like more videos like this detailing the big picture with minor and major spoilers as I like to get a full picture even after I completed the book. Too many videos are "spoiler free" for pre-viewers and not enough for post viewers.
A quibble, however. The Culture was and remained somewhat ambivalent about the need for war, but it was inevitable given the religious nature of the Idirans. Sooner or later they would have had designs on regions of the Culture and acted on them. The Culture could not have avoided a war with the Idirans.
There's a chilling scene at the end of the book which is one of my favourite chapters of any book just because of how visceral it is, think it was Banks trying to show just how little chance the Idirans stood, it is not the soldiers who decided this war it was liberalism applied to warfare
What happens in this scene? Which book does this take place in?
@@treacherousjslither6920 it's from the end of consider phlebas as far as I can remember but I'm starting to question my sanity because I can't find it online anywhere, that might just be because it's inconsequential to the plot of the main characters though, I'll have to dig the book out and find the chapter. I remember there is a chapter where a secret Idiran base is assaulted by a single culture drone initially disguised as an Idiran made out of nanites, and I don't think anyone on the base survives
@@jackjones7062 I think that scene happens in Look To Windward. I have the book i'll check. Yes the last chapter Closure before the epilogue. A Culture shape-shifting nanite swarm in the form of a chelgrian female infiltrates their base and brutally murks the two key elements in the Masaq assassination attempt. It somehow knew what their greatest fears were and executed them in that fashion. The Culture can be quite terrifying when they put their minds (heh) to it. Like the kind of stuff that Grey Area gets up to in Excession. Scary.
@@treacherousjslither6920 Aaah it's been a long time since I read either of them I'm getting them confused oops, I'll have to read them again
Brilliant work here Darrel!
Great Channel. I'm lucky to have found you! Please make more content on the culture, I am sure we will see a movie for this series soon! It is becoming vastly popular after Elon's reference for it and grok large language model.
Yeah the Homadan were thought to be too advanced/ powerful for anyone to mess with I remember one of the Culture agents believing this. But not true I guess ..
Initially, the Homomda were indeed superior to the Culture, but the Culture has always had a major advantage over many other civilisations - the Minds. The machines can replicate and advance themselves at a rate that no biological being is capable of doing which is what happened during the war as the Minds started upgrading themselves and the whole war fleet at such a rate that they rapidly overtook the more advanced Homomda. On a much smaller scale, we will see happening on Earth soon when the AI matches our own intelligence first and then rapidly leaves us far behind.
An interesting summary, but a key point about the religious beliefs was that AI must be subservient to Idirans. Whereas in the culture AIs "the minds" were full citizens of the culture. This really reflects the times we are in now, as many worry about AIs and what it means for us. Also one of the main reasons the Idirans lost the war was that their ships/weapons could not be given full AI control. So they were slower to react than the culture minds. This is a lesser point than as you say 'the reason for the culture's existence'. I enjoyed your summary.
Quick question - is this original content, or am I just listening to someone reading out the appendix from Consider Phlebas?
I can't believe this is the first time I'm putting it together but that one game of Azad in Player of Games is literally the tabletop version of the Idiran war
Not really. Azad represents the empire. It does not represent a military conflict.
@@krisbarr5663 "that one game of" Meaning a specific game of Azad that was played in the novel not the game it's self
no, the Azad empire was an actual civilization that used a game to determine one's position within their society. their society was pretty cruel. think the roman empire.
Close actually. The reason why Gurgeh won the final game was that he naturally fell into the culture method of fighting a war that prevailed against the Idirans.
@@lordblazer It's also a critique of meritocracy when the starting conditions are so different. If you had tutors and all your free time available to learn this game you could advance but you needed a lot for that. The best of the classes that had that time and money would rise but if you exceptional but socially lower it was hard, the woman who was good but couldn't play her hardest because it would cause too many waves and the men/apex would have her killed. The poorer couldn't even ante in because they didn't have the time or money. Ian M Banks writing always had that extra depth. He really though about the set ups. They're less paper thin than so much of scifi.
I want to read Banks again...
I want to start reading Banks!
Audio books are on youtube
Nice illustrations.
You neglected to mention an event near the end of the Idiran war, one that haunted Culture for centuries: the battle of twin novae. After Idirans sued for cease-fire, Culture refused, demanding unconditional surrender. in the following hostilities Idirans induced the suns of two inhabited systems to go nova, killing many billions. Culture forever blamed themselves for that. The commemoration of the event, on the occasion of the light of those novae reaching Masaq' orbital, is the introductory event to "Look to Windward", a kind of "other bookend" novel to "Consider Phlebas", which took place at the height of Idiran war. The latter novel describes a tragic fiasco by Contact, who provoked a cataclysmic civil war on Chel, and also committed something unthinkable, a hinted at retaliation for the attempt to murder Masaq' Mind, under the motto "You don't fuch with Culture!"
They had it coming….
@@paulklee5790 It was very uncharacteristic of Culture, and some of us fans (there was a lively on-line community at the time, still on UseNet) believed it showed Banks' doubts in viability of his creation.
@@bazoo513Banks absolutely believed in the 'viability' of the Culture.
What a truly odd take.
@@Tao_Tology He did, and the Culture always had a kind of "dark side", but from _LtW_ that dark side is increasingly visible. Of course, it never approaches, even remotely, the level of travesty displayed by _our_ civilization, but still...
@@bazoo513
"He did"
Congratulations on acknowledging that Banks absolutely believed in the viability of the Culture.
Never mind the bloody Roman Empire … I spend an unconscionable amount 😊of my down-mode time thinking about the Culture/Idiran conflict…
What do you think about it?
I read Consider Phlebas and I can't say I got as much depth as this describes XD
Are there other books or content that explains the lore of the war better? Or did I just not piece clues together while reading Phlebas?
The main storyline mentions some of this, but much of this information is held in an appendix at the back of the book.
This is not a sumnary by the creator of the video. He is simply reading the summary at tge end of Consider Phlebeas.
Pausing for a moment.. May I ask if this vid spoils Look to Windward? I am gonna read that next after Excession, but don't wanna spoil myself thru this vid although it looks interesting.
It doesn’t. All this info is in the Consider Phlebas appendix.
Im on book 8. If I watch this, will I have to hunt you down for not giving a spoiler alert? Perosteck, I need your service, maybe. Ok, finished the series. Now I can watch all the pertaining videos.
Oy, I resent the Y-Wing, this is not about Star Wars! 😉Anyway, this would make a much better sci-fi movie series than SW... Thank you for the coprehensive look at the conflict.
🤣
Banks said his brief was to ‘out Star Wars Star Wars’
Weren't the affronters a less tech advanced warlike societry than the Culture ? They're the species that stole some Culture warships and went after the vastly superior Alien artifact in the book Excession right ?
Yes but they were kind of tricked into doing it by the Interesting Times Gang. A bunch of Culture Minds that wanted the Affront gone and tried to get them to start a war with the Culture as a means of execution.
I would lsike to see what a Mind would say if it had to pilot a Y wing 7:25
Interesting. I don't remember most of that, but looking forward to reading it again. A y-wing?
I didn’t even make the y wing connection 🤦♂️
the word Jihad sure gets thrown around, means stife, you know as in Ad astra per aspera = to the stars, through jihad.
Have you considered narrating history documentaries? You're basically repeating the plot as outlined within the book.
Not so. The plot of the book occurs with the war in the background. The plot follows Bora, neither Idiran nor Culture, as he pretty much just tries to stay alive as a mercenary. It does not focus primarily on the war itself. This video gives no spoilers to the storyline of the book beyond the fact that the Idirans eventually lose.
I thought it was that the Idirans hated and thought Ai was blasphemous
Meat against machine
It's more the protagonist - Horza - whose pissed off about AI. He's shown to be a bit of a hypocrite given the fact his race - the Changers - were artificially created for war.
@@kaspermcleish5255He just doesn't want ai to run the show.
@@treacherousjslither6920 And do you agree with horza? Banks makes a pretty good case for the AI minds, not that they'd be suitable in our society right now but that machine intelligence can have liberating impact under the anarcho communist setting of the culture.
@@kaspermcleish5255 I disagree with Horza. The Culture Minds are doing a fine job. I understand his reasoning though. Organics simply can't compete. Fear of obsolescence.
@@kaspermcleish5255 Also I think the Minds would be great for our society. They could figure out how to run things better than we can. The only problem would be getting us all to listen to them and to do as they suggest. Many people would take the route of Horza.
Let’s hope Disney never hears of The Culture……
Lets hope hollywood in general never hears about the culture or revelation space.
how many orbitals got destroyed again ^^'
14,334
I wonder just how vast their numbers of minds , biological beings , ships planets were then ? The number of biological and non biological beings on each orbital was vast.
How many casualties then ? At least trillions?
@@frankmontez6853 851.4 billion including machines
@@huyclare8665 heathen machines !! “ Thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of human mind “
Bro you are just reading the wiki page
The Culture could no more avoid the war with the Iridians than the West can avoid the war with Islam. The parallels are not coincidental as Banks was exploring this very conundrum with this novel.
Or the west and abrahamic religion in general. Same god.