Knew it. They did not want to interfere in Isshin's new life away from Soul Society, especially with his young family. That and there were more pressing issues to deal with. That sounds like something Toshiro would do even if he's a rule follower while Rangiku certainly understood without any scruples. Them seeing him as a doctor, a helper of his community, no doubt contributed to them keeping it quiet.
There would have been no need to blow the matter up. Since Isshin was no longer a part of Soul Society, those two did not have to do anything more than acknowledge his presence.
@@dreamhobbiz True. The only one who likely would've caused problems is Soifon, assuming she knew given her intelligence background. And then Yoruichi would be there to tell her to stand down and leave them alone.
@@dreamhobbiz It wouldn't have done any good till later down the road.... The first time they were around Isshin couldn't sense their spiritual pressures.
All we really needed was a panel or two where Toshiro and Rangiku look at Isshin, then look at each other for a moment. It would seem like a strange nothing at the moment to the reader, but looking back, we would notice and think "Oh yeah, they definitely noticed."
I agree. As it doesn't make sense for story-wise to actually let them react to Issin after around 20 years. Even IF they would know, that wouldn't help as he WAS NOT able to use his shinigami powers BACK THEN before him regaining it. Like for an ova yeah sure, but story no
@@Demi-ec2fw ALSO, Ukitake sensed that Ichigo has a close resembled reiatsu to Isshin or Kaien who Byakuya seem to know. If that was the case, this proves that all of them know. But it won't be beneficial for storytelling-wise, only characters which would be a cool thing to see. But it won't benefit the story what they will say: "oh hey guys I'm a human now who used to be your captain. OH WOW captain how could you leave for 20 years = 2 years in soul reaper years"
Isshin was not doing anything wrong, there would have been no need for either Toushiro or Rangiku to interfere with his life. I guess all Isshin asked them to do was to keep his existence a secret for the time being, at least until the war was over.
@@dreamhobbiz what I mean by interfering is them just speaking to him as in "hey Isshin its been a while good to see you after all this time" and leave it at that. But I know Hitsugaya really not that type of person anyway.
@@dreamhobbiz It's a bogus claim considering Rangiku's outgoing talkative personality would never say a word if knowing about Isshin. Also considering that Ichigo's father was Toushiro's ex-commander and Ichigo is also of royalty, Toushiro always feels distracted when Ichigo talks to him so conveniently never calling him captain.
@@MassBoost Spoilers (anime arcs only) Hmm i think it makes sense and that Rangiku would respect that. Yes outwards shes bubbly and talkative but remember how she was leading up to gins death and even after his death. Remember how she noticed hitsugaya training in secret to get stronger. She has the maturity, understanding and sense to leave things unsaid. So i think it makes sense. Also Ichigo knew none of this, so for them to reveal everything like that would really stepping on their former captains toes. I really agree with what was said in this video. edit: actually come to think of it - we barely saw her directly interact with Gin until their past was revealed. So it makes sense that she knows how to give people space.
@@dreamhobbiz At this point in the story Isshin is a deserter, just as Rukia was. They only difference is that he hadn't given up his power to a human he did it to suppress a hollow. The only reason I can think of is because he had a hunch and informed his underlings when he left to meet with masaki and Ryuken Ishida. So I would assume they knew what was up and pled the 5th so to speak, this is all speculation off their actions knowing Ichigo and seeing Isshin.
Kubo already knew he wanted to make isshin soul reaper . In his character data in some chapter in the the first arc . It's says that isshin is now wearing white because he is a doctor but he wanted isshin to have some other job because isshin looks cooler in black .
Yes, kubo's original idea was that Ishin would be a mortician, but his editor suggested that seeing Ishin dressed in presto would make it very obvious that he was a shiningame.
Soul Society seems to be just fine with secrets being kept so long as the status quo is maintained, see Yumichika and his zanpakuto. Matsumoto and Toshiro staying quiet about this actually fits with this, though a small scene with them would have been appreciated, even in a light novel.
I agree with you that Rangiku and Toshiro's decision to let Isshin be is believable and that Kubo should have had them mention that they recognized him. I understand that he wasn't ready to reveal that Isshin was a Shiba (though it was already hinted several times) and that he was the former Captain of Squad 10 (though it was long known that he was a former captain, and process of elimination was narrowing it down). The solution being some vague exchange between Rangiku and Toshiro to the effect of: "Isn't that...?" "Obviously. Let him be." If anything it would have enhanced the mystery behind Isshin's past that Kubo was trying to maintain.
even just seeing him and then a panel of them exchanging a look would have been good enough honestly, their desition would be implied in the fact that they didn't say anything and after the information was given to the reader we could go back to that and be like, yeah they noticed and let him be, that's cool. but since there is nothing it's a little confusing
That's basically it, Kubo didn't know how to get to certain plot points while he indeed planned and hinted a lot of the narrative from the very beginning. Just some basic characters interactions, even without dialogue, would've added so much more depth to the story for those three but also for Unohana and Zaraki. Having her lower her head and closing her eyes whenever he speaks or generally disliking spending more time in his presence than necessary and Zaraki just unable to get his eyes off her. Subtle but awkward interactions for readers to notice that something is off. That would've been so good.
I mean I will stress that it’s doubtful that a by the book soul reaper like Rukia lacked the creative mind to entertain the idea that a soul society noble would willingly live amongst the living. Until that moment she had a very limited world view of the human world and the soul society. She basically behaved very doll like and just did what was expected of her and never questioned things. She’s not the only one, momo, Kira and many others followed the Gotei blindly.
I wouldn't say.. blindly. They were militarized. So they don't question orders. Doesn't mean they don't have their opinions. Hence why it was so easy rukia took to disobeying shinigami law You do have a point about rukias perspective being limited
Your statement contradicts. You say she's a by the book soul reaper but then you are questioning her that she doesn't question things and follow the Gotei blindly? That's how a "by the book" character is 😂
This kinda implies that Toshiro and Rangiku knew that Ichigo is technically Royalty but didn't ever bring it up to him, though you can argue that Isshin was not only branch family but also a defected member so that may not apply very much. But it's wild they knew that about him but didn't really even make have or references about it.
Both of them don’t really seem the type to mention it? Plus, did you see the way Isshin ran his decision? They looked at that and said, ‘nobility? Where?’
I reckon rangiku would of wanted to interact with ishhin but hitsugaya would of recognised isshin would of had his reasons for leaving soul society and didn't want to bring the matter up. Also with isshin leaving the gotei 13 is a serious crime, if they interacted with him in the real world they would of been obligated to bring him in or branded traitors themselves, though a scene with a simple nod towards each other would of sufficed I think.
@@SparzWizard Aizen has hold on Ichigo's origins since he is technically part of his experiment. Of course Aizen would hush hush anybody who will try to look further in Ichigo's history within Soul Society. In short, Aizen only let soul society know what he allows them to know.
A simple panel of Rangiku and Toshiro post visit to Ichigo's home. "You sensed him didn't you captain? Rangiku asks knowing the answer." "Yes, Toshiro responds without emotion." "Wanna........ go and say hi at least? She asks." " a slight smile on his face, remembering yesterday's good times and responds with a little warmth. No, he's made a choice lets let him be happy let him live in peace awhile longer." "Yes, captain Rangiku looks away wistfully."
I think that the best way Kubo could have handled Rangiku and Toshiro would be having a page or two of Isshin interacting and thanking them (and maybe a super brief flashback to a discussion between Rangiku and Toshiro) for not interfering after he had fully revealed himself (somewhere between Aizen's defeat and the start of the TYBW arc would have been a good opportunity). Foreshadowing for both of Ichigo's parent's connections had existed since the early chapters and episodes, (and I may be remembering incorrectly since it has been a WHILE since I watched/read Bleach) but while Isshin had his powers back at the time that Rangiku and Toshiro saw him, the true reveal of him being a shinigami still had yet to actually happen. Panels showing that level of direct recognition that early on would have lessened the true reveal as opposed to amp it up like all the other foreshadowing, so at most they could give short, surprised expressions followed by faint smiles at the time they saw him. I will also say that, regarding Rukia, I can understand and accept the answer, but it is not a very satisfying answer for me. Anyways, good video!
You could argue that it was no longer a secret after Ichigo showed up with Isshin on his shoulder to face Aizen one last time. Rangiku had to have seen him and heard Ichigo refer to him as dad. I just had the sense to believe she actually confirmed after Ichigo and Azien took off to fight by checking to see if it was him.
Well to be honest Squad 10 was closer to Ichigo than any other squad. Remember in most arcs the first one to arrive was always Toshiro and Matsumoto as Ichigos closest friends. Renji did always come but not with Byakuya. Which means the captain coming mostly in the human world was Toshiro. But Toshiro was always mad at Ichigo for not calling him captain so he could say no. But i think it was mostly because of Isshin.
I do wish that there was a scene of reaction and reunion between them and he got to tell them how proud he was of them… and let Matsumoto slap/punch him for up and leaving the way he did even if they understood why.
just a speculation, Isshin, Rangiku and Toshiro privately had a off screen dialogue during the arrancar arc and told them not tell Ichigo his true identity. Also, im sure Rangiku encounters Isshin in Dangai to the real Karakura Town in soul society and told her to buy them some time against Aizen and Ichimaru
There may be a couple of reasons why. 1. Yhwach needed Ichigo alive because he was the only person capable of killing Reio. It may relate to the Quincy 1000 year plan Yhwach had (Staying low for 100's of years developing better tech, waiting for the shinigami to get weaker and, most importantly, waiting for Ichigo Kurosaki to be born) 2. Ichigo's own inner spirit may have interfered. We already know that Old man Zangetsu is VERY different from the real Yhwach. Even though they are the same person, even though they share the same Quincy blood, the old man did everything he could so that the real Yhwach wouldn't kill him. He may have been involved. Or 3. It may be even more complicated than that, because both Karin and Yuzu ARE Quincy and somehow they didn't got affected. So idk, someone def needs to ask kubo sensei this
Maybe is thanks to all of them being hybrids? Even if Masaki lost all of white's reiatsu and most of her powers, I doubt she wouldn't pass a part of the Quincy essence to them, but Isshin would also be giving part of his shinigami power to them. Having at least the "seed" so to speak to nearly all races (maybe even all of them, because we don't know if white reiatsu could count as a remanent of hollow power, giving them both the possibility of fullbring and maybe a light hollowfication.) Knowing this, maybe Ywach was unable to interfere with them because of that? Full on diferent powers might be able to fight the quincy influence, and in fact, not let Ywach real access to them.
@@joaquincortescasas8114 No, Ichigo was "harmed". He didn't see the dead for a little while after that. But, Ichigo's powers can't really be stripped from him. They will always grow back. That's what the Fullbring Arc was really about, and to show the SS had really changed. As to his sister's. Karin obviously has a hollow and probably a Bankai. Yuzu seems to take more after the Quincy in her, or she's just so comfortable with who she is that her hollow is in complete control and calm. I doubt she'd ever get a bankai...unless, that cat thing was her bankai.
Yeah I don't think there is any way Matsumoto and Hitsugaya would not have wanted to talk to Isshin and ask what the hell happened. Considering that only 17 years or so before (Shinigami live for so long that's not going to seem like a huge amount of time to them) from their perspective their captain suddenly disappeared without warning. To find him alive they would certainly have been extremely curious as to what happened to him; if he abandoned soul society, his duties and them and if so why. Also considering the revelation this creates that it was Isshin's son who lead a group of humans (with the help of the shiba clan) to attack soul society to rescue Rukia and result in Aizen revealing his villany they would also have questions for Ichigo about how much he has known all along about soul society and if he was lying to them.
I assume one of them could have been posted in Karakura Town at one point and saw that he was alive and well. They were like “Well…guess he lives here now. Time to move on.”
It bugs me when people say Kubo didn't plan for something, when if people actually paid attention they would have known all the hints Kubo gave. Very little happened without reason, most every happened with the intention of setting another thing up. Reason why Ichigo had to get into the Seireitei the way he did was to set up Ichigo's bloodline. Meet his cousins, and set up that Isshin made the Shiba clan fall from grace. The fact that his mother was attacked by Grand Fisher, rather than Ichigo meant she was either a shinigami or a quincy. As Grand Fisher was A. said to prefer women and B. went for high spiritual pressures. If Grand Fisher was after Ichigo, he would be dead and not his mother. Ichigo's fight with Uryu after Grand Fisher also set this up. Until Isshin was revealed as a Soul Reaper, we didn't know who was the Quincy. It was not until TYBW that we got a direct confirmation. In fact, i thought Isshin was the Quincy as he called Uryu's father when he needed help. Isshin's power was being used to suppress White within Ichigo's soul, so when Ichigo actually hollowfied, Isshin was able to regain his spiritual pressure. This is all i picked up by just... paying attention and putting the pieces together.
Well, nice to see he officially answered it. I always just figured that they both knew but the reason why, especially toshiro was late to Ichigo's room, was that they were with isshin but isshin asked them to keep it quiet.
Had he been captain to anyone else it definitely would’ve been weird they didn’t say anything but it was hitsugaya and Matsumoto and they’re probably the most understanding people that know how to keep a secret. It’s just so them for them to know and not say anything and move on
It makes perfect sense why Rukia didn't know. All the points you made about him changing appearances and not having regular contact with Rukia make sense. But we must also consider the fact that Isshin used to be a high-level captain. Even if he wasn't at full strength, he probably spent a lot of time hiding his identity from every spiritually aware person he came into contact with. All of that, combined with the fact that Isshin acts like a total goof (not the way a captain would act), provides the perfect cover if you ask me. As for Hitsugaya and Rangiku, I can see Rangiku wanting to talk with Isshin badly. But then Hitsugaya tells her to leave him alone. That sounds about right.
Isshin is a goof off but he is definitely a pretty capable captain. He can hide gis reiatsu no problem plus he has Urahara. Like Him and Yoruichi plus tge Vizards aall remained incognito up to that point. Like Ishhin is definitely a more capable Captain than a lot of the Vizard captains.
If you think about it, Shinigami Isshin is much taller, muscular and much more prominent than his gigai version. His gigai version looks lean and slim. So that's why they don't recognized him
We all knew that ichigo's dad was more than what was being led on to be I just didn't know exactly how far it went. But I was pretty sure that he was part of the gotei 13 and when we first seen his uniform after regaining his powers we all knew he was a captain at one time. I think the fact that they left him alone to do his own thing is and was a sign of respect for him. This would be a common thing if you respect someone you will respect their wishes and will.
even kuukaku and ganju knew it, why others not, beside matsumoto not that stupid if we overlook her as a character, moreover hitsugaya type (to me) as a character that prioritize duty first over some reunions, maybe we see something after the war arc ended, and the new arc begins, there is more to isshin power that we as a fan need kubo to explore, like i kinda think that he can be new power threat and his bankai is what we long to see, is it the same as ryujin jakka (they both fire type zanpakuto i think), we still dont know the mystery behind soul king, his body part just got revealed by a few, more of it to come i hope, idk i kinda like him as a character, his resolve on helping and protect people is where ichigo got it from, plus getsuga tensho is originally from him but just fire, i kinda want to see his zanpakuto spirit
Just because there wasn't a scene where Toshiro, Matsumoto and Ishin talked, it doesn't necessarily means that they didn't, it just mean it wasn't important to the story at the moment
As far as I know, in Japanese culture the concept of not bothering the other is very strong so I can understand that Rangiku and Toshiro decided to not talk to Isshin or that that is how Kubo understood that situation but for us, westerners it is very difficult to grasp those Japanese cultural elements. I read the manga before knowing this issue and then I had forgotten about that visit from Toshiro and the others.
Do you want to bet that Isshin asked Rukia to watch over his son? She may not have known about Isshin during the first arc, but she definitely did during the arrancar arc after his powers came back.
As far as Rukia is concerned though, yeah the squad members proudly don't KNOW all the captains, it's likely that they at least know them by sight. How many times do we ever see a captain walking around the seireitei being accosted by members of different squads? I don't recall anyone trying a challenge and password whilst on guard duty. But recall how everyone was so fuzzlewhompused by Ichigo looking like Kaian? Stands to reason his dad would in part as well. So her brain had to choose between "former captain turned human" and "guy i just met looks like someone i knew, must get it from his human father" and Occams razor gives it to her from behind.
So rangiku knew who ichigos father was when they went to his house, but she still thought it was ok to unbutton her shirt and lift up her skirt a little to seduce his son?
Not sure if it came across in the anime, but Isshin would have approved of Rangiku trying that on his son. About the only thing he would have been mad about is that he was not there.
So now the only question regarding Isshin, or rather the family as a whole: what of Kukaku Shiba? She's also a relative of Ichigo and Isshin and was briefly shown during the TYBW arc in the manga when the Fullbringers were being brought into the battle. She's the one that basically eludes to knowing about Ichigo and the possible connection to Kaien he had but absolutely nothing about them is brought up about her ever again outside of those two instances. All these characters that are connected to Ichigo yet nothing ever comes of it.
She realized who Ichigo was the moment she first met him... notice how she treats Ichigo just like Ganju giving them the exact same treatment. Chad, Uryuu, and Orihime were all treated differently as "Guests" but she treated Ichigo as "Family". This is further supported by the fact that she was one of the few (and as far as we know only) people Yoruichi and Kisuke kept in contact with within the Soul Society. Kisuke was the one who helped Ishin leave the Soul Society and start a life in the Human Realm so I am pretty sure they informed Kukaku about Ishin's status from the get-go. Especially since Ishin leaving is the reason the Shiba family is no longer recognized as one of the 5 Great Noble Houses and it became 4. She simply didn't need to bring it up past those two points. She saw Ichigo, who looks just like Kaien, arrive on her doorstep in the presence of Yoruichi, which kinda confirms everything she needs to know about him right then and there. She never brings it up because she was probably told that Ichigo knew nothing and wanted to leave that to Ishin as it was his responsibility.
Maybe it can be an added scene when he comes back after speaking with his father or maybe after the ywach fight and its the dust settles part of it we will see him speak to them and see reactions
I'm not sure whether it's Urahara or Yoruichi or maybe she just knew it somehow, but before sending Ichigo to the Soul Palace to train, Kukaku as far as I remember said that though sending Ichigo will sadden their uncle it's a thing they must do. So it's implied that Kukaku is fully aware of Ichigo family and Isshin's life in the human world
Well I really hate to point this out to everyone but there was a reason why Matsumoto and Toshiro were always on board with helping Ichigo to the fullest. Look back and there were times where upon hearing shit about Ichigo the seemed perplexed or even said I don't believe it. The next Biggest hint was Kukaku Shiba. Without really questioning it decided to help not only from Youroichi's request but because she most likely was shocked to hear Ichigo's name, but for two reasons! Reason one Kurosaki, The name of the Quincy that took her beloved uncle away, and Ichigo was named after the siblings Father Ichiei Shiba. Ichigo looks a lot like Kaien and has the same Shiba demeanor, As you could see when he and Ganju are consistently butting heads lol. I made these conclusins when Ichigo first made his way to the soul society, so many Shinigami made reference to Ichigo being similar to Kaien, and at one point I thought yamamoto made a statement about him being like a previous captain? That last bit might stretch as it has been years since I have revisited those arcs. This story is far more complex than anyone can imagine and the possibility of what could be is so vast, Kubo really has bestowed a gem upon us. Toriyama had done the same with the Dragonball universe there is so much room for fan speculation and birthing of new plot lines!
@@malikasowers6267 yeah it's great isn't it? He has such a way of laying out the details that either raise questions later on or bring immediate speculation. To me the way Ganju and Ichi fought was like me and my cousins and I couldn't help but think they were kindred spirits... go figured 10+ years down the road..... Man I am still in awe of this mans work after all these years.... I sincerely hope that when thousand year blood war stuff is over it isn't done for the franchise, there is still so many questions that need answered!. Like what happens to Yuuichi Shibata? Does Hiorinmaru ever really become complete? So many characters that need more story telling on top of everything!
@@metalord53 And Kukaku also looks like Ichigo. Think about it... Hitsugaya and Matsumoto came to KT, when they hadn't interacted with Ichigo at all. Or they might have, off-panel. Because Ichigo called him "Toshiro" with a great deal of familiarity. When the chapter was released. I, along with other fans, speculated about this. Why would Kubo send Hitsugaya and Matsumoto, especially? Instead of someone like Zaraki, or even Byakuya? But as soon as we got Isshin's backstory, I began to connect the dots. And it was a light bulb moment. 💡 "Oh...so THAT'S why Hitsugaya and Matsumoto came that time". In Bleach, hindsight is 2020. There is a lot of things from the beginning, that were hinted at, and foreshadowed, but didn't come to fruition, until 5-10 years later. Ichigo uses Getsuga Tensho, the same as Isshin. Upon hearing that Ichigo uses the same move as Isshin. And has Zangetsu, which is similar name as their former Captain's, Engetsu. Plus Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien. They had to put two-and-two, together. Although I suspect Urahara told everyone. But we just didn't see it. The thing that always irked me about Bleach fans is. They never connect the dots. They simply accuse Kubo of making things up as he goes along. When the man has proven that he planned most of plot points and character history, from the beginning. The only thing that he may have done on the fly, is that he said that he made Aizen the main antagonist after he killed him. But he always planned on Aizen's role. He was just going to create a different character, to fill that role. From the very beginning, "someone" was sending Hollows after Ichigo. Isshin being a Shinigami, and a Shiba was planned in the early stages. And Matsumoto and Hitsugaya existence is because he was their Captain. And that's why Isshin's haori was folded over his shoulder and you couldn't see what squad he was in. The same way Hisagi is in the 9th squad and has a 69 tattoo, that represents Kensei. And Nanao-cham, looks like Lisa. Kubo planted the seeds for so many plot points, in the early chapters, that didn't pay off until the final arc. Like Ishida's arrow. Ichigo and Ishida teaming up against the Gillian, literally foreshadowed the end fight with Yhwach. Yet people are still making videos and asking questions like this. 👍
@@malikasowers6267 Well it is good content for people that didnt dive all the way in or are new and looking for quick answers. The speculations make it cool too, I like seeing what others think. I dont understand how people can think he is making things up as he goes lol, Kubo is a legend! The amount of subtle foreshadowing that went on is amazing. I have watched the series in its entirety to dat 6plus times and each run through I see more and more, The amount that is so subtle you will miss it the first time is just awe worthy! Everything has a story!!!!
Yeah, at some point I had imagined - then head cannoned - and then forgot it was my own thought, that there was a scene with her saying something like "did you feel..." and Tosh cutting her off with "No and neither did you."
He knew Isshin was gonna be a shinigami but perhaps he didn't know he was gonna be captain or at what squad he would belong. Plus, Urahara revealed to Hiyori the shinigamis can not abandon the squads. So it's plot hole that Soul Society never chased down Urahara, Isshin and the vizards.
Urahara never got chased again because getting exiled to the Human World is part of his punishment by Soul Society For the Vizards, I think Soul Society tried to chase them but at some point they got tired and decided not to pursue them again For Isshin and Yoruichi, I agree with you
@Yellow Spiderman 2 I'm not sure about that when they did the flashback during the vizards arc you never see squad 10's captain and they never address his absence. I always assumed he was there when they were captains at some point but abandoned his post some time later. What makes me believe this is the fact they showed that Urahara was already living in the human world when Isshin who was still a captain at the time showed up during the flashbacks in the thousand year old arc.
Just based off anime logic you have three options for parents 1. they're dead for various reasons usually some sort of sacrifice for the child 2. One is alive and hiding some kind of secret/secret identity that's related to current events in the story 3. Both are most likely alive but not actually the real parents usually some type of Guardian / caretaker also with the child usually not knowing
I don’t agree with this one Simo, the first indication about him knowing Uryu doesn’t necessarily mean that Isshin is a Shinigami. Also, the second thing when Ichigo was in his world, he mentioned the power from his parents, but that was way after Matsumto and Toshrio visited Ichigo’s house so it doesn’t count as evidence. In my opinion it is a plot hole and it would have been avoided with one scene with Toshiro and Matsumoto looking at each other after seeing Isshin.
It would've been nice to see that small interaction to be honest. Do like a quick side view of 3 them making fun or telling stories about Ichigo which would have some good comic relief.
it's good to know Rangiku and Toushiro at least recognized him, but I still wanted some interaction shown at least. Especially seeing how Toushiro and Rangiku were kinda depressed aster the war with Aizen and the Espada. Isshin after all risked his life against Aizen, but then no visit to suddenly ruffle the hair of a depressed Toushorou and say a few words, or at maybe train him a bit with his fire zanpaktou?
Do u guys remember where Ichigo and Byakuya are about to fight on that bridge..Ukitake says is this him and Byakuya denies...they refer to Isshin. I was very interested that time to know why they said something like this.
I always assumed it was due to soul society law. That and Mr Hat and Clogs and Yuroichi helping hide their collective presences. They are, after all, only 3 of the former captains we we ever meet early in story (not counting Aizen and Co who defected during the story). Even the Vizards were rogues who were outside of the soul society's radar later in the series.
Though the biggest factor is whether the Noble houses actually bothers to go look for them outside SS. In a lot of times 13 court guard squads is satisfied with having them banished and will only try to pursue them if they pose an immediate threat.
I get it, it is a plothole patched up later on, but I never wondered about isshin and toshiro+matsumoto, but the latter's first meet with ichigo. it's fairly unbelievable they wouldn't know who he is and then not losing a single thought about it for the whole first arc and debatably arrancar arc. Like, imagine, the son of the former head of one of your four big royal families just casually shows up in soul society to beat shit up? Sometimes, you just gotta be honest about your plotholes. It's okay.
I just figured that they just never had the chance to meet him but knew he was there simply because Ichigo spirit energy probably felt similar to his dad’s enough that they figured it out on their own.
I would think that a captain randomly disappearing from Soul Society would warrant at least a search party, but i don't think there was any. As such I find it more logical that both Matsumoto and Toshiro were notified about what went down in the real world by Urahara. He could have even sent a fake body to Soul Society, to make it look like Isshin was killed by hollows.
I also think Yamamoto knows a lot more than he is telling central 46 about. There is a lot a scene in bleach where it heavily implies, he knows people are lying and just let it go. Yamamoto seem like the type of person to only push thing when central 46 make him push thing forward. I'm not even 100% sure he agreed with Rukia execution more doing it as a duty and a sin he has to bear as the head captain.
I believe Kubo means everything he say’s, the man had Ichibei’s ink blocking out Old man Zangetsou’s real name when he first tries to tell him his name is Ywach in Ichigo’s inner world.
I think it would have been cool to see a brief interaction between Isshin, Toshiro, and Rangiku where they ask if Isshin is doing well in his new life and he asks after them too, maybe even something about how Isshin knows the 10th division is in good hands or a brief congratulations to Toshiro, saying he always believed in him or something.
A simple way Kubo could have shown they knew, but didn’t make it too obvious. In the mist of Isshin and Ichigo normal father and son fights, as the two watch on. Rangiku: So he’s Ichigo’s father? Toshiro: Seems like it. Rangiku: It makes sense. Toshiro: Oh? How so? Rangiku: Well, their personalities I guess. Toshiro: … Let’s go.
I always Wonder why SS didn't make any research about Ichigo Ichigo was a very special being Why nobody search about his last name, why he has hollows powers, her resemble with the Shiba clan and he uses the Getsuga Tenshou
This happenes a few time. I think Kubo either wrote himself into a corner, or did what I recently did, wrote a story arc similar to isshin. Where he's a mystery etc. and then started another arc (soul society arc) and forgot about the first arc. I had to go back and re write my story cause it clashed with another. It's really common for writers. I think Kubo was probably stressed and didn't have time to add a few panels where Tohshiro and Rangiku interacted.
The problem with this argument is that its a crime for a Shinigami to try and start a life in the human world. Toshiro absolutely should have arrested Isshin. You can't tell me he didn't recognize him; he absolutely would. Rangiku wouldn't care because of the difference in rank and relationship, but I can't say the same of Toshiro. He would be honor bound to bring him in. Soul Society might overthrow the ruling by an appeal from Ichigo, but it should have been addressed in the story. You can't say its ok to punish someone like Rukia for committing crimes with humans and not Isshin. ITS A PLOT HOLE.
@Yellow Spiderman 2 in fact through the history of bleach hitsugaya does not care of the crimes when someone near him is involved, not only with momo and gin but also in the fullbring arc when the ss have ichigo as a suspicion of traitor, even outside the canon in the movies he do the same he even isnt related to rukia and doesnt care about it
I doubt Toshiro would have been that big of a stickler for the rules that he would have done it. If that's the case they would have brought Urahara and Yourichi in the moment they saw them. I think as time went on they became more relaxed with the rules considering they allowed some of the vizards to return to soul society and resume their post as captains and vice captains.
I’ve thought about it since they revealed he was in the shiba clan and that Toshiro and rangiku were his vice and 3rd seat. What I have come up with Rukia which is kind of like how she thinks ichigo looks like Kaien. A mere coincidence in her eyes (even though ichigo is technically a shiba) she may have thought that it was a coincidence. Also the Gigai urahara created for him did cause isshin to age in what shinigami would consider in a short amount of time. For his former Allies I think at some point they may have went searching for him. They could’ve reunited with him and may have them to say he was dead. From the small flashback it did seem like both were close to him and may respect him enough to not interfere or reveal his true origin. It’s possible he never wanted his kids to be sucked into his old life. It really did seem he truly loved Misaki which would be more than enough reason for him to save her and leave his old life behind. I mean he gave up his powers to save her. Makes sense to me
What about Ryuken, didn't he wanted to teach Ichigo to become a Quincy? or was he jealous that he couldn't marry Ichigo's mom, and he didn't knew Ichigo had any Quincy powers? or probably Kubo didn't knew about this until later in the story.
I understand why kubo didn’t have a scene showing Toshiro noticing isshin that’s because he was not meant to be identified as the source of Ichigos power. Because his mom had already shown spiritual awareness in identifying grand fishers lure.
In Bleach, hindsight is 2020. When you get to Isshin's backstory, it should click "oh...THAT's why Hitsu and Matsu came to KT at that time" At least it did for me.
No one's disputing that Kubo never planned for Isshin to be a shinigami, but claiming that Toshiro and Rangiku knew he was Ichigo's father is a bogus claim. While there might be some merit to thinking Toshiro might not ever mention it at all, there's no way Rangiku would be quiet of the fact with her outgoing talkative personality. There was never a scene in the manga or anime where Isshin was seen by either Toshiro or Rangiku. Also why do so some feel slightly disrespected when Ichigo talks to certain shinigami so conveniently, Toshiro is one of them, even though he's a son of an ex-captain and royalty?
You mischaracterizes her yes she dies have an outgoing personality but she also a person that understand when to keep things under wrap look at momo for example when she gave aizen letter to her she was meant to head thst in for invagtion but didnt and gave it to momo and told no body about this hell she didnt even look into it another example with orihime when she was comforting her she never told rukia about it . Rangiku known when to keep quiet about things
I really Kubo had just drawn 1 panel of Toshiro, Matsumoto, and Isshin talking together. No words for the readers just the 3 talking in one panel and then it would end up explained chapters later.
Yeah, that is definitely a cop out. It's too important to the story to be left out. He either didn't plan for Isshin to be in the 10th division and changed his mind later or just didn't think about it. Him saying they didn't want to interfere doesn't match their personalities. Matsumoto ran after Gin for like the whole series. They would have definitely talk to him to hear his side.
Thing is tho Matsumoto loves gin and gin went to the bad side Ofc she would spend like the whole series running after him wanting to know why especially after already having left her before when they were younger, compared to having respect for your former captain and respecting his decision to live a quiet peaceful life in the human world not interrupting that shows respect and an understanding that is isshin didn’t want involvement in the shinigami life even after getting his powers back and if you think about it when he did get back involved again it was to protect his family… they are on two different ends of the spectrum
So I think that every major character in gotei 13 knew about isshin bit decided not to talk about it and disclose it because of central 46 as they would do anything to punish isshin and his family with him in the name of him being a traitor to stop the resurrection of shiba family as they hate the four great families as together they overpower the central 46 and cause having 1 single captain level shinigami would be a huge thing since byakuya is the only member from the four great family on that level with the emergence of rukia, youruchi coming back and now isshin they would do anything to keep hold of their powers
Rukia wasnt in the 13 court gaurd when Isshin was a captian and im sure Ken Shiba wasnt going to bring up the fact that one of his family wa a captain and then went missing in the world of the living
I wish we had an episode where toshiro and rangiku would interact with their former captain Isshin, at least a scene between them, would be so touching and sentimental
We all know how gotei 13 members have alot of secrets and obvious relationships with people that only get addressed later. Like Matsumoto and Gins relationship for example We still don't even know the extent
i agree, could have been nice to just have a panel in the manga seeying toshiro and rangiku`s thought about a familiar spiritual pressure being felt and then bruhsing it off saying they shouldnt get involved/ interfere as they decided to do so in the past. could have intrigued the readers/viewers about who they could have been refering to. while some could ahve realised they could ahve been talking about ishin. which then later would have been confirmed.
first example hinting at a relationship at Ryouken and Isshin doesn't specify it's ryouken is the boss. Stating tell him it's a request from Kurosaki could mean anything. Second example saying he had his own powers could easily be interpreted as any powerful soul has the power to be a soul reaper. That's the criteria soul reapers are judged on. Fourth example with Isshin, Matsumoto, and Hitsugaya makes no sense. Their captain suddenly goes missing with no explanation or clues for 20 years after a mission he was sent to the real world and never returned? Something obviously happened to their captain. Even if they don't have enough questions, they would feel remorseful for not being able to stop the outcome. It's ridiculous to hand wave it by saying they knew, but didn't react, acknowledge or say anything about it. Fifth example where you said Matsumoto and Htisugaya decide not to interfere with their captain is because of their insufficient strength so your argument falls flat. Kubo is notorious for having a general idea of what he wants to do, but not having details nailed out. Hence the plot holes. No need to fan boy and cover up mistakes. He's human. He makes mistakes. And the weekly serialization where you never know when you'll get cancelled makes people make even more mistakes.
yea i agree with you not in manga at least in the anime where they gave 100s of fillers that small interaction wouldve been a relief for me as i got too much into bleach that i cared abot the interactions too lol
I doubt anyone discovering his existence in the human world would be a issue at that point considering his son has save the soul society numerous times. The only thing it would do is confirm the suspicions Ukitake and Kuchki had about Ichigo in the beginning.
There is no way that neither Matsumoto nor Toshiro had a single thing that they wanted to say to Isshin. That's just not how relationships work. There must have been at least one sentence that they felt a need to say to eachother. There should have been at least one page where the three acknowledged each-other's existence.
alright so he does it off screen yet showcases the past. That's fine. But you can tell he didn't plan or put too much thought into it, since these are Shinigami and the fact the go to the living world ever so often, they had to have spot him a few times. Showing a present interaction with the three when he got his powers back seems important to his storyline at least.
I read volume one and noticed at the end of chapter 1 itself when the hollow got away he said yelling at Ichigo “I thought when you became a soul reaper you’D save us!?” Vol 1 page 61
Also a side question u know with ganju and kukaku. Did they recognise ichigo to be isshin kid. Not sure since ganju kept trying to fight with ichigo even though he looks like kaien. Ik later on in the tybw they talk about isshin but didn't see any hints before that
I think that they didn't recognize him and just ignore his presence. If Isshin was suppose to be a captain,then his former vices would have at least inner monologue between themselves. Besides, they were occupied with Aizen's rebellion and soon after Quincy (not to mention Fullbringers). In the end, Kubo made a soft retcon.
I agree with the idea that somebody should have mentioned something either either the tooth notice should have said something to each other or one of them should have made a comment to him or even to Ichigo somewhere somebody said something
Knew it. They did not want to interfere in Isshin's new life away from Soul Society, especially with his young family. That and there were more pressing issues to deal with. That sounds like something Toshiro would do even if he's a rule follower while Rangiku certainly understood without any scruples. Them seeing him as a doctor, a helper of his community, no doubt contributed to them keeping it quiet.
There would have been no need to blow the matter up. Since Isshin was no longer a part of Soul Society, those two did not have to do anything more than acknowledge his presence.
@@dreamhobbiz True. The only one who likely would've caused problems is Soifon, assuming she knew given her intelligence background. And then Yoruichi would be there to tell her to stand down and leave them alone.
@@manuelacosta9463 nah. Yoruichi would have to save Soi Fon from Isshin. The man's middle finger will be enough to kill her instantly.
@@dreamhobbiz It wouldn't have done any good till later down the road.... The first time they were around Isshin couldn't sense their spiritual pressures.
Yes!!! It’s respect and pride and to acknowledge these aspects is huge
All we really needed was a panel or two where Toshiro and Rangiku look at Isshin, then look at each other for a moment. It would seem like a strange nothing at the moment to the reader, but looking back, we would notice and think "Oh yeah, they definitely noticed."
I agree. As it doesn't make sense for story-wise to actually let them react to Issin after around 20 years. Even IF they would know, that wouldn't help as he WAS NOT able to use his shinigami powers BACK THEN before him regaining it. Like for an ova yeah sure, but story no
Exactly, cause Rukai and Ukitake said Ichigo looked like Kaien and they didn't tell which became important later
@@Demi-ec2fw ALSO, Ukitake sensed that Ichigo has a close resembled reiatsu to Isshin or Kaien who Byakuya seem to know. If that was the case, this proves that all of them know. But it won't be beneficial for storytelling-wise, only characters which would be a cool thing to see. But it won't benefit the story what they will say: "oh hey guys I'm a human now who used to be your captain. OH WOW captain how could you leave for 20 years = 2 years in soul reaper years"
Maybe a tiny bit of dialogue, as well. "Should we....?" "...No, leave it, for now at least."
@@soul8648 it does make sense story wise, why wouldn't it??
I've always believed that the reason Toshiro and Matsumoto were so quickly to trust Ichigo 100% is because they new who was his father
I agree and I’m glad kubo didn’t say anything he doesn’t need too
When he first say ichigo he knew
They never met in the Soul society arc if I remembered correctly.
And when Ichigo was releasing his Bankai, both of them recognised his reiatsu right away.
Tbh I was sussed when rangiku frequently visits ichigo
Its crazy this is another topic that I never really thought about. It makes sense for Hitsugaya not to interfere with Isshin.
Isshin was not doing anything wrong, there would have been no need for either Toushiro or Rangiku to interfere with his life. I guess all Isshin asked them to do was to keep his existence a secret for the time being, at least until the war was over.
@@dreamhobbiz what I mean by interfering is them just speaking to him as in "hey Isshin its been a while good to see you after all this time" and leave it at that. But I know Hitsugaya really not that type of person anyway.
@@dreamhobbiz It's a bogus claim considering Rangiku's outgoing talkative personality would never say a word if knowing about Isshin. Also considering that Ichigo's father was Toushiro's ex-commander and Ichigo is also of royalty, Toushiro always feels distracted when Ichigo talks to him so conveniently never calling him captain.
@@MassBoost Spoilers (anime arcs only)
Hmm i think it makes sense and that Rangiku would respect that. Yes outwards shes bubbly and talkative but remember how she was leading up to gins death and even after his death. Remember how she noticed hitsugaya training in secret to get stronger. She has the maturity, understanding and sense to leave things unsaid. So i think it makes sense.
Also Ichigo knew none of this, so for them to reveal everything like that would really stepping on their former captains toes. I really agree with what was said in this video.
edit: actually come to think of it - we barely saw her directly interact with Gin until their past was revealed. So it makes sense that she knows how to give people space.
@@dreamhobbiz At this point in the story Isshin is a deserter, just as Rukia was. They only difference is that he hadn't given up his power to a human he did it to suppress a hollow. The only reason I can think of is because he had a hunch and informed his underlings when he left to meet with masaki and Ryuken Ishida. So I would assume they knew what was up and pled the 5th so to speak, this is all speculation off their actions knowing Ichigo and seeing Isshin.
Kubo already knew he wanted to make isshin soul reaper . In his character data in some chapter in the the first arc . It's says that isshin is now wearing white because he is a doctor but he wanted isshin to have some other job because isshin looks cooler in black .
Yes, kubo's original idea was that Ishin would be a mortician, but his editor suggested that seeing Ishin dressed in presto would make it very obvious that he was a shiningame.
Also everytime Ichigo name was dropped to someone significant they'd say (no relation)
I just want them to interact with each other, the doubt, the questionings, the guilt, they had something to talk about
Soul Society seems to be just fine with secrets being kept so long as the status quo is maintained, see Yumichika and his zanpakuto. Matsumoto and Toshiro staying quiet about this actually fits with this, though a small scene with them would have been appreciated, even in a light novel.
The soul king 😂
I agree with you that Rangiku and Toshiro's decision to let Isshin be is believable and that Kubo should have had them mention that they recognized him. I understand that he wasn't ready to reveal that Isshin was a Shiba (though it was already hinted several times) and that he was the former Captain of Squad 10 (though it was long known that he was a former captain, and process of elimination was narrowing it down). The solution being some vague exchange between Rangiku and Toshiro to the effect of: "Isn't that...?" "Obviously. Let him be." If anything it would have enhanced the mystery behind Isshin's past that Kubo was trying to maintain.
I absolutely how in character this dialogue is and that you know immediately who is speaking. 😆
@@RiRyn27 no, more....
R: Should we?
T: No.
even just seeing him and then a panel of them exchanging a look would have been good enough honestly, their desition would be implied in the fact that they didn't say anything and after the information was given to the reader we could go back to that and be like, yeah they noticed and let him be, that's cool. but since there is nothing it's a little confusing
That's basically it, Kubo didn't know how to get to certain plot points while he indeed planned and hinted a lot of the narrative from the very beginning. Just some basic characters interactions, even without dialogue, would've added so much more depth to the story for those three but also for Unohana and Zaraki. Having her lower her head and closing her eyes whenever he speaks or generally disliking spending more time in his presence than necessary and Zaraki just unable to get his eyes off her. Subtle but awkward interactions for readers to notice that something is off. That would've been so good.
He didn't think that far ahead, man ...
I mean I will stress that it’s doubtful that a by the book soul reaper like Rukia lacked the creative mind to entertain the idea that a soul society noble would willingly live amongst the living. Until that moment she had a very limited world view of the human world and the soul society. She basically behaved very doll like and just did what was expected of her and never questioned things. She’s not the only one, momo, Kira and many others followed the Gotei blindly.
I wouldn't say.. blindly. They were militarized. So they don't question orders. Doesn't mean they don't have their opinions. Hence why it was so easy rukia took to disobeying shinigami law
You do have a point about rukias perspective being limited
@@zenraloc fr
Your statement contradicts. You say she's a by the book soul reaper but then you are questioning her that she doesn't question things and follow the Gotei blindly? That's how a "by the book" character is 😂
I mentioned this on the previous video, I did NOT expect Kubo to say "Both of them noticed"... That's insane... I love this
This kinda implies that Toshiro and Rangiku knew that Ichigo is technically Royalty but didn't ever bring it up to him, though you can argue that Isshin was not only branch family but also a defected member so that may not apply very much.
But it's wild they knew that about him but didn't really even make have or references about it.
Both of them don’t really seem the type to mention it? Plus, did you see the way Isshin ran his decision? They looked at that and said, ‘nobility? Where?’
Isshin was the head of the clan, Kaien and his siblings were the ones from a branch.
They knew in the Fullbring Arc Toshiro states that he's glad that Ichigo was the substitute shinigami which was an indirect reference to Isshin
Pretty sure they knew that ichigo honestly wouldn't give a shit even uf he was. He's a kurosaki not a shiba
@@MaxIronsThird No, Isshin was the head of the branch family and Kaien was the head of the main family.
I reckon rangiku would of wanted to interact with ishhin but hitsugaya would of recognised isshin would of had his reasons for leaving soul society and didn't want to bring the matter up. Also with isshin leaving the gotei 13 is a serious crime, if they interacted with him in the real world they would of been obligated to bring him in or branded traitors themselves, though a scene with a simple nod towards each other would of sufficed I think.
Wouldn't the Head Captain and the other captains catch on by now learning of Ichigo's family?
Would have (would've), not would of
@@SparzWizard Aizen has hold on Ichigo's origins since he is technically part of his experiment. Of course Aizen would hush hush anybody who will try to look further in Ichigo's history within Soul Society.
In short, Aizen only let soul society know what he allows them to know.
A simple panel of Rangiku and Toshiro post visit to Ichigo's home.
"You sensed him didn't you captain? Rangiku asks knowing the answer."
"Yes, Toshiro responds without emotion."
"Wanna........ go and say hi at least? She asks."
" a slight smile on his face, remembering yesterday's good times and responds with a little warmth. No, he's made a choice lets let him be happy let him live in peace awhile longer."
"Yes, captain Rangiku looks away wistfully."
I think that the best way Kubo could have handled Rangiku and Toshiro would be having a page or two of Isshin interacting and thanking them (and maybe a super brief flashback to a discussion between Rangiku and Toshiro) for not interfering after he had fully revealed himself (somewhere between Aizen's defeat and the start of the TYBW arc would have been a good opportunity). Foreshadowing for both of Ichigo's parent's connections had existed since the early chapters and episodes, (and I may be remembering incorrectly since it has been a WHILE since I watched/read Bleach) but while Isshin had his powers back at the time that Rangiku and Toshiro saw him, the true reveal of him being a shinigami still had yet to actually happen. Panels showing that level of direct recognition that early on would have lessened the true reveal as opposed to amp it up like all the other foreshadowing, so at most they could give short, surprised expressions followed by faint smiles at the time they saw him. I will also say that, regarding Rukia, I can understand and accept the answer, but it is not a very satisfying answer for me. Anyways, good video!
You could argue that it was no longer a secret after Ichigo showed up with Isshin on his shoulder to face Aizen one last time. Rangiku had to have seen him and heard Ichigo refer to him as dad. I just had the sense to believe she actually confirmed after Ichigo and Azien took off to fight by checking to see if it was him.
Well to be honest Squad 10 was closer to Ichigo than any other squad. Remember in most arcs the first one to arrive was always Toshiro and Matsumoto as Ichigos closest friends. Renji did always come but not with Byakuya. Which means the captain coming mostly in the human world was Toshiro. But Toshiro was always mad at Ichigo for not calling him captain so he could say no. But i think it was mostly because of Isshin.
I do wish that there was a scene of reaction and reunion between them and he got to tell them how proud he was of them… and let Matsumoto slap/punch him for up and leaving the way he did even if they understood why.
What would Isshen had done if he had discovered that Motsumoto attempted to bribe his son into allowing her to sleep over😏
Considering the lech Isshin is, been right beside his son.
Lmao
just a speculation, Isshin, Rangiku and Toshiro privately had a off screen dialogue during the arrancar arc and told them not tell Ichigo his true identity. Also, im sure Rangiku encounters Isshin in Dangai to the real Karakura Town in soul society and told her to buy them some time against Aizen and Ichimaru
I like to think Toshiro hanging out with Karin and Yuzu in the filler episodes is in large part due to his relationship as a disciple of Isshin.
The question I want to see the answer is:
Why Ichigo wasn't harmed from the Auswahlen?
There may be a couple of reasons why.
1. Yhwach needed Ichigo alive because he was the only person capable of killing Reio. It may relate to the Quincy 1000 year plan Yhwach had (Staying low for 100's of years developing better tech, waiting for the shinigami to get weaker and, most importantly, waiting for Ichigo Kurosaki to be born)
2. Ichigo's own inner spirit may have interfered. We already know that Old man Zangetsu is VERY different from the real Yhwach. Even though they are the same person, even though they share the same Quincy blood, the old man did everything he could so that the real Yhwach wouldn't kill him. He may have been involved.
Or 3. It may be even more complicated than that, because both Karin and Yuzu ARE Quincy and somehow they didn't got affected.
So idk, someone def needs to ask kubo sensei this
Maybe is thanks to all of them being hybrids? Even if Masaki lost all of white's reiatsu and most of her powers, I doubt she wouldn't pass a part of the Quincy essence to them, but Isshin would also be giving part of his shinigami power to them. Having at least the "seed" so to speak to nearly all races (maybe even all of them, because we don't know if white reiatsu could count as a remanent of hollow power, giving them both the possibility of fullbring and maybe a light hollowfication.)
Knowing this, maybe Ywach was unable to interfere with them because of that? Full on diferent powers might be able to fight the quincy influence, and in fact, not let Ywach real access to them.
@@joaquincortescasas8114 No, Ichigo was "harmed". He didn't see the dead for a little while after that. But, Ichigo's powers can't really be stripped from him. They will always grow back. That's what the Fullbring Arc was really about, and to show the SS had really changed. As to his sister's. Karin obviously has a hollow and probably a Bankai. Yuzu seems to take more after the Quincy in her, or she's just so comfortable with who she is that her hollow is in complete control and calm. I doubt she'd ever get a bankai...unless, that cat thing was her bankai.
@@talieclandestine9155 karin has a hollow and bankai?
@@haruk2312 purely speculation, but her behavior seems to indicate one.
Yeah I don't think there is any way Matsumoto and Hitsugaya would not have wanted to talk to Isshin and ask what the hell happened. Considering that only 17 years or so before (Shinigami live for so long that's not going to seem like a huge amount of time to them) from their perspective their captain suddenly disappeared without warning. To find him alive they would certainly have been extremely curious as to what happened to him; if he abandoned soul society, his duties and them and if so why.
Also considering the revelation this creates that it was Isshin's son who lead a group of humans (with the help of the shiba clan) to attack soul society to rescue Rukia and result in Aizen revealing his villany they would also have questions for Ichigo about how much he has known all along about soul society and if he was lying to them.
When you put it that way. The shiba’s look like rebels lol
I assume one of them could have been posted in Karakura Town at one point and saw that he was alive and well. They were like “Well…guess he lives here now. Time to move on.”
It bugs me when people say Kubo didn't plan for something, when if people actually paid attention they would have known all the hints Kubo gave. Very little happened without reason, most every happened with the intention of setting another thing up. Reason why Ichigo had to get into the Seireitei the way he did was to set up Ichigo's bloodline. Meet his cousins, and set up that Isshin made the Shiba clan fall from grace. The fact that his mother was attacked by Grand Fisher, rather than Ichigo meant she was either a shinigami or a quincy. As Grand Fisher was A. said to prefer women and B. went for high spiritual pressures. If Grand Fisher was after Ichigo, he would be dead and not his mother. Ichigo's fight with Uryu after Grand Fisher also set this up. Until Isshin was revealed as a Soul Reaper, we didn't know who was the Quincy. It was not until TYBW that we got a direct confirmation. In fact, i thought Isshin was the Quincy as he called Uryu's father when he needed help. Isshin's power was being used to suppress White within Ichigo's soul, so when Ichigo actually hollowfied, Isshin was able to regain his spiritual pressure. This is all i picked up by just... paying attention and putting the pieces together.
Well, nice to see he officially answered it. I always just figured that they both knew but the reason why, especially toshiro was late to Ichigo's room, was that they were with isshin but isshin asked them to keep it quiet.
I mean they probably, even if they didn't want to bring it up, at least stopped to say Hello and let him know they were in his house.
Had he been captain to anyone else it definitely would’ve been weird they didn’t say anything but it was hitsugaya and Matsumoto and they’re probably the most understanding people that know how to keep a secret. It’s just so them for them to know and not say anything and move on
It makes perfect sense why Rukia didn't know. All the points you made about him changing appearances and not having regular contact with Rukia make sense. But we must also consider the fact that Isshin used to be a high-level captain. Even if he wasn't at full strength, he probably spent a lot of time hiding his identity from every spiritually aware person he came into contact with. All of that, combined with the fact that Isshin acts like a total goof (not the way a captain would act), provides the perfect cover if you ask me. As for Hitsugaya and Rangiku, I can see Rangiku wanting to talk with Isshin badly. But then Hitsugaya tells her to leave him alone. That sounds about right.
Isshin is a goof off but he is definitely a pretty capable captain. He can hide gis reiatsu no problem plus he has Urahara.
Like Him and Yoruichi plus tge Vizards aall remained incognito up to that point.
Like Ishhin is definitely a more capable Captain than a lot of the Vizard captains.
If you think about it, Shinigami Isshin is much taller, muscular and much more prominent than his gigai version. His gigai version looks lean and slim. So that's why they don't recognized him
We all knew that ichigo's dad was more than what was being led on to be I just didn't know exactly how far it went. But I was pretty sure that he was part of the gotei 13 and when we first seen his uniform after regaining his powers we all knew he was a captain at one time. I think the fact that they left him alone to do his own thing is and was a sign of respect for him. This would be a common thing if you respect someone you will respect their wishes and will.
even kuukaku and ganju knew it, why others not, beside matsumoto not that stupid if we overlook her as a character, moreover hitsugaya type (to me) as a character that prioritize duty first over some reunions, maybe we see something after the war arc ended, and the new arc begins, there is more to isshin power that we as a fan need kubo to explore, like i kinda think that he can be new power threat and his bankai is what we long to see, is it the same as ryujin jakka (they both fire type zanpakuto i think), we still dont know the mystery behind soul king, his body part just got revealed by a few, more of it to come i hope, idk i kinda like him as a character, his resolve on helping and protect people is where ichigo got it from, plus getsuga tensho is originally from him but just fire, i kinda want to see his zanpakuto spirit
Just because there wasn't a scene where Toshiro, Matsumoto and Ishin talked, it doesn't necessarily means that they didn't, it just mean it wasn't important to the story at the moment
As far as I know, in Japanese culture the concept of not bothering the other is very strong so I can understand that Rangiku and Toshiro decided to not talk to Isshin or that that is how Kubo understood that situation but for us, westerners it is very difficult to grasp those Japanese cultural elements. I read the manga before knowing this issue and then I had forgotten about that visit from Toshiro and the others.
Do you want to bet that Isshin asked Rukia to watch over his son? She may not have known about Isshin during the first arc, but she definitely did during the arrancar arc after his powers came back.
As far as Rukia is concerned though, yeah the squad members proudly don't KNOW all the captains, it's likely that they at least know them by sight. How many times do we ever see a captain walking around the seireitei being accosted by members of different squads? I don't recall anyone trying a challenge and password whilst on guard duty.
But recall how everyone was so fuzzlewhompused by Ichigo looking like Kaian? Stands to reason his dad would in part as well. So her brain had to choose between "former captain turned human" and "guy i just met looks like someone i knew, must get it from his human father" and Occams razor gives it to her from behind.
So rangiku knew who ichigos father was when they went to his house, but she still thought it was ok to unbutton her shirt and lift up her skirt a little to seduce his son?
Not sure if it came across in the anime, but Isshin would have approved of Rangiku trying that on his son. About the only thing he would have been mad about is that he was not there.
It’s rather mild compared to what Isshin did to Rangiku in the division. 😂
@@RiRyn27 what did he do
I mean it's Rangiku.
Of course she thought it was okay.
@FlochBasedKing Ichigo I know that lady so just do it
So now the only question regarding Isshin, or rather the family as a whole: what of Kukaku Shiba? She's also a relative of Ichigo and Isshin and was briefly shown during the TYBW arc in the manga when the Fullbringers were being brought into the battle. She's the one that basically eludes to knowing about Ichigo and the possible connection to Kaien he had but absolutely nothing about them is brought up about her ever again outside of those two instances. All these characters that are connected to Ichigo yet nothing ever comes of it.
She realized who Ichigo was the moment she first met him... notice how she treats Ichigo just like Ganju giving them the exact same treatment. Chad, Uryuu, and Orihime were all treated differently as "Guests" but she treated Ichigo as "Family".
This is further supported by the fact that she was one of the few (and as far as we know only) people Yoruichi and Kisuke kept in contact with within the Soul Society. Kisuke was the one who helped Ishin leave the Soul Society and start a life in the Human Realm so I am pretty sure they informed Kukaku about Ishin's status from the get-go. Especially since Ishin leaving is the reason the Shiba family is no longer recognized as one of the 5 Great Noble Houses and it became 4.
She simply didn't need to bring it up past those two points. She saw Ichigo, who looks just like Kaien, arrive on her doorstep in the presence of Yoruichi, which kinda confirms everything she needs to know about him right then and there. She never brings it up because she was probably told that Ichigo knew nothing and wanted to leave that to Ishin as it was his responsibility.
mhm, i wish we could have got more on that too
Maybe it can be an added scene when he comes back after speaking with his father or maybe after the ywach fight and its the dust settles part of it we will see him speak to them and see reactions
and now in tybw, it is confirmed that she knew they were related beforehand.
I don't remember in what arc but she sends Ichigo in the "tube" and says to ganju that " uncle isn't going to be happy" speaking of isshin.
I would love that scene with them interacting only to have Ichigo interrupt with Karin.
But this is probably why those two had Ichigo's back moving forward... all the time.
Such a great video. Thank you for reconfirming my suspicion. Do you think Urahara or Yoruichi ever told Kukaku about Isshin's choice?
I'm not sure whether it's Urahara or Yoruichi or maybe she just knew it somehow, but before sending Ichigo to the Soul Palace to train, Kukaku as far as I remember said that though sending Ichigo will sadden their uncle it's a thing they must do. So it's implied that Kukaku is fully aware of Ichigo family and Isshin's life in the human world
@@michaelalexander2084 interesting. Looks like I'm going to have to reread the TYBW arc again..
Well I really hate to point this out to everyone but there was a reason why Matsumoto and Toshiro were always on board with helping Ichigo to the fullest. Look back and there were times where upon hearing shit about Ichigo the seemed perplexed or even said I don't believe it. The next Biggest hint was Kukaku Shiba. Without really questioning it decided to help not only from Youroichi's request but because she most likely was shocked to hear Ichigo's name, but for two reasons! Reason one Kurosaki, The name of the Quincy that took her beloved uncle away, and Ichigo was named after the siblings Father Ichiei Shiba. Ichigo looks a lot like Kaien and has the same Shiba demeanor, As you could see when he and Ganju are consistently butting heads lol. I made these conclusins when Ichigo first made his way to the soul society, so many Shinigami made reference to Ichigo being similar to Kaien, and at one point I thought yamamoto made a statement about him being like a previous captain? That last bit might stretch as it has been years since I have revisited those arcs. This story is far more complex than anyone can imagine and the possibility of what could be is so vast, Kubo really has bestowed a gem upon us. Toriyama had done the same with the Dragonball universe there is so much room for fan speculation and birthing of new plot lines!
When Kukaku is drinking she references Isshin saying she doesn't want "THAT uncle, to to get mad at her"
@@malikasowers6267 yeah it's great isn't it? He has such a way of laying out the details that either raise questions later on or bring immediate speculation. To me the way Ganju and Ichi fought was like me and my cousins and I couldn't help but think they were kindred spirits... go figured 10+ years down the road..... Man I am still in awe of this mans work after all these years.... I sincerely hope that when thousand year blood war stuff is over it isn't done for the franchise, there is still so many questions that need answered!. Like what happens to Yuuichi Shibata? Does Hiorinmaru ever really become complete? So many characters that need more story telling on top of everything!
@@metalord53 And Kukaku also looks like Ichigo. Think about it... Hitsugaya and Matsumoto came to KT, when they hadn't interacted with Ichigo at all. Or they might have, off-panel. Because Ichigo called him "Toshiro" with a great deal of familiarity. When the chapter was released. I, along with other fans, speculated about this. Why would Kubo send Hitsugaya and Matsumoto, especially? Instead of someone like Zaraki, or even Byakuya? But as soon as we got Isshin's backstory, I began to connect the dots. And it was a light bulb moment. 💡 "Oh...so THAT'S why Hitsugaya and Matsumoto came that time". In Bleach, hindsight is 2020. There is a lot of things from the beginning, that were hinted at, and foreshadowed, but didn't come to fruition, until 5-10 years later. Ichigo uses Getsuga Tensho, the same as Isshin. Upon hearing that Ichigo uses the same move as Isshin. And has Zangetsu, which is similar name as their former Captain's, Engetsu. Plus Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien. They had to put two-and-two, together. Although I suspect Urahara told everyone. But we just didn't see it. The thing that always irked me about Bleach fans is. They never connect the dots. They simply accuse Kubo of making things up as he goes along. When the man has proven that he planned most of plot points and character history, from the beginning. The only thing that he may have done on the fly, is that he said that he made Aizen the main antagonist after he killed him. But he always planned on Aizen's role. He was just going to create a different character, to fill that role. From the very beginning, "someone" was sending Hollows after Ichigo. Isshin being a Shinigami, and a Shiba was planned in the early stages. And Matsumoto and Hitsugaya existence is because he was their Captain. And that's why Isshin's haori was folded over his shoulder and you couldn't see what squad he was in. The same way Hisagi is in the 9th squad and has a 69 tattoo, that represents Kensei. And Nanao-cham, looks like Lisa. Kubo planted the seeds for so many plot points, in the early chapters, that didn't pay off until the final arc. Like Ishida's arrow. Ichigo and Ishida teaming up against the Gillian, literally foreshadowed the end fight with Yhwach. Yet people are still making videos and asking questions like this. 👍
@@malikasowers6267 Well it is good content for people that didnt dive all the way in or are new and looking for quick answers. The speculations make it cool too, I like seeing what others think. I dont understand how people can think he is making things up as he goes lol, Kubo is a legend! The amount of subtle foreshadowing that went on is amazing. I have watched the series in its entirety to dat 6plus times and each run through I see more and more, The amount that is so subtle you will miss it the first time is just awe worthy! Everything has a story!!!!
Yeah, at some point I had imagined - then head cannoned - and then forgot it was my own thought, that there was a scene with her saying something like "did you feel..." and Tosh cutting her off with "No and neither did you."
He knew Isshin was gonna be a shinigami but perhaps he didn't know he was gonna be captain or at what squad he would belong.
Plus, Urahara revealed to Hiyori the shinigamis can not abandon the squads. So it's plot hole that Soul Society never chased down Urahara, Isshin and the vizards.
Urahara never got chased again because getting exiled to the Human World is part of his punishment by Soul Society
For the Vizards, I think Soul Society tried to chase them but at some point they got tired and decided not to pursue them again
For Isshin and Yoruichi, I agree with you
everyone forget that 7-8 captains were hollified ,kisuke ,tessai and yoruichi left thats most captains
@Yellow Spiderman 2 I'm not sure about that when they did the flashback during the vizards arc you never see squad 10's captain and they never address his absence. I always assumed he was there when they were captains at some point but abandoned his post some time later. What makes me believe this is the fact they showed that Urahara was already living in the human world when Isshin who was still a captain at the time showed up during the flashbacks in the thousand year old arc.
If theres a single panel that had the two of em watch over isshin from a distance, that wouldve been enough tbh.
@Yellow Spiderman 2 yea i mixed the two up lol
Just based off anime logic you have three options for parents
1. they're dead for various reasons usually some sort of sacrifice for the child
2. One is alive and hiding some kind of secret/secret identity that's related to current events in the story
3. Both are most likely alive but not actually the real parents usually some type of Guardian / caretaker also with the child usually not knowing
I don’t agree with this one Simo, the first indication about him knowing Uryu doesn’t necessarily mean that Isshin is a Shinigami. Also, the second thing when Ichigo was in his world, he mentioned the power from his parents, but that was way after Matsumto and Toshrio visited Ichigo’s house so it doesn’t count as evidence. In my opinion it is a plot hole and it would have been avoided with one scene with Toshiro and Matsumoto looking at each other after seeing Isshin.
It would've been nice to see that small interaction to be honest. Do like a quick side view of 3 them making fun or telling stories about Ichigo which would have some good comic relief.
This is so interesting, I had no idea!
Thanks for this man, I've always wanna know this!!!
it's good to know Rangiku and Toushiro at least recognized him, but I still wanted some interaction shown at least. Especially seeing how Toushiro and Rangiku were kinda depressed aster the war with Aizen and the Espada.
Isshin after all risked his life against Aizen, but then no visit to suddenly ruffle the hair of a depressed Toushorou and say a few words, or at maybe train him a bit with his fire zanpaktou?
Great video simo san
I always noticed when they always said that ichigo looked liked and they would cut off the conversation. That he was of the shiba clan.
Do u guys remember where Ichigo and Byakuya are about to fight on that bridge..Ukitake says is this him and Byakuya denies...they refer to Isshin. I was very interested that time to know why they said something like this.
I always assumed it was due to soul society law. That and Mr Hat and Clogs and Yuroichi helping hide their collective presences. They are, after all, only 3 of the former captains we we ever meet early in story (not counting Aizen and Co who defected during the story). Even the Vizards were rogues who were outside of the soul society's radar later in the series.
Though the biggest factor is whether the Noble houses actually bothers to go look for them outside SS.
In a lot of times 13 court guard squads is satisfied with having them banished and will only try to pursue them if they pose an immediate threat.
I get it, it is a plothole patched up later on, but I never wondered about isshin and toshiro+matsumoto, but the latter's first meet with ichigo. it's fairly unbelievable they wouldn't know who he is and then not losing a single thought about it for the whole first arc and debatably arrancar arc. Like, imagine, the son of the former head of one of your four big royal families just casually shows up in soul society to beat shit up? Sometimes, you just gotta be honest about your plotholes. It's okay.
Common sense should tell you they came with Rukia and the others because of Isshin, after you read Isshin's back story. Hindsight is 2020
I just figured that they just never had the chance to meet him but knew he was there simply because Ichigo spirit energy probably felt similar to his dad’s enough that they figured it out on their own.
I would think that a captain randomly disappearing from Soul Society would warrant at least a search party, but i don't think there was any. As such I find it more logical that both Matsumoto and Toshiro were notified about what went down in the real world by Urahara. He could have even sent a fake body to Soul Society, to make it look like Isshin was killed by hollows.
I also think Yamamoto knows a lot more than he is telling central 46 about. There is a lot a scene in bleach where it heavily implies, he knows people are lying and just let it go. Yamamoto seem like the type of person to only push thing when central 46 make him push thing forward. I'm not even 100% sure he agreed with Rukia execution more doing it as a duty and a sin he has to bear as the head captain.
Did ishins family know what actually happened to him is something I'd love to know if so did they know about Ichigo being his son.
@@maciekwucow3989 kukaku knows??
I believe Kubo means everything he say’s, the man had Ichibei’s ink blocking out Old man Zangetsou’s real name when he first tries to tell him his name is Ywach in Ichigo’s inner world.
I think it would have been cool to see a brief interaction between Isshin, Toshiro, and Rangiku where they ask if Isshin is doing well in his new life and he asks after them too, maybe even something about how Isshin knows the 10th division is in good hands or a brief congratulations to Toshiro, saying he always believed in him or something.
A simple way Kubo could have shown they knew, but didn’t make it too obvious.
In the mist of Isshin and Ichigo normal father and son fights, as the two watch on.
Rangiku: So he’s Ichigo’s father?
Toshiro: Seems like it.
Rangiku: It makes sense.
Toshiro: Oh? How so?
Rangiku: Well, their personalities I guess.
Toshiro: … Let’s go.
Great video bro
I always Wonder why SS didn't make any research about Ichigo
Ichigo was a very special being
Why nobody search about his last name, why he has hollows powers, her resemble with the Shiba clan and he uses the Getsuga Tenshou
I always said this is what happened in your comment section and people would debate me But now they know I'm right
It would've been more interesting in the story to drop a lil hint here and there that they knew each other
For me it's less of a plot whole, more of a waist of potential. To this day I think ishinn was drastically underutilized
This happenes a few time. I think Kubo either wrote himself into a corner, or did what I recently did, wrote a story arc similar to isshin. Where he's a mystery etc. and then started another arc (soul society arc) and forgot about the first arc.
I had to go back and re write my story cause it clashed with another. It's really common for writers. I think Kubo was probably stressed and didn't have time to add a few panels where Tohshiro and Rangiku interacted.
The problem with this argument is that its a crime for a Shinigami to try and start a life in the human world. Toshiro absolutely should have arrested Isshin. You can't tell me he didn't recognize him; he absolutely would. Rangiku wouldn't care because of the difference in rank and relationship, but I can't say the same of Toshiro. He would be honor bound to bring him in. Soul Society might overthrow the ruling by an appeal from Ichigo, but it should have been addressed in the story. You can't say its ok to punish someone like Rukia for committing crimes with humans and not Isshin. ITS A PLOT HOLE.
@Yellow Spiderman 2 in fact through the history of bleach hitsugaya does not care of the crimes when someone near him is involved, not only with momo and gin but also in the fullbring arc when the ss have ichigo as a suspicion of traitor, even outside the canon in the movies he do the same he even isnt related to rukia and doesnt care about it
I doubt Toshiro would have been that big of a stickler for the rules that he would have done it. If that's the case they would have brought Urahara and Yourichi in the moment they saw them. I think as time went on they became more relaxed with the rules considering they allowed some of the vizards to return to soul society and resume their post as captains and vice captains.
Just think how different the beginning of Bleach could’ve been if Byakuya knew Ichigo was Isshin son
Maybe we'll get a flashback of them seeing him and him telling them to keep quiet.
I’ve thought about it since they revealed he was in the shiba clan and that Toshiro and rangiku were his vice and 3rd seat. What I have come up with Rukia which is kind of like how she thinks ichigo looks like Kaien. A mere coincidence in her eyes (even though ichigo is technically a shiba) she may have thought that it was a coincidence. Also the Gigai urahara created for him did cause isshin to age in what shinigami would consider in a short amount of time. For his former Allies I think at some point they may have went searching for him. They could’ve reunited with him and may have them to say he was dead. From the small flashback it did seem like both were close to him and may respect him enough to not interfere or reveal his true origin. It’s possible he never wanted his kids to be sucked into his old life. It really did seem he truly loved Misaki which would be more than enough reason for him to save her and leave his old life behind. I mean he gave up his powers to save her. Makes sense to me
What about Ryuken, didn't he wanted to teach Ichigo to become a Quincy? or was he jealous that he couldn't marry Ichigo's mom, and he didn't knew Ichigo had any Quincy powers? or probably Kubo didn't knew about this until later in the story.
This makes sense 👍🏻👍🏻
I understand why kubo didn’t have a scene showing Toshiro noticing isshin that’s because he was not meant to be identified as the source of Ichigos power. Because his mom had already shown spiritual awareness in identifying grand fishers lure.
In Bleach, hindsight is 2020. When you get to Isshin's backstory, it should click "oh...THAT's why Hitsu and Matsu came to KT at that time" At least it did for me.
No one's disputing that Kubo never planned for Isshin to be a shinigami, but claiming that Toshiro and Rangiku knew he was Ichigo's father is a bogus claim. While there might be some merit to thinking Toshiro might not ever mention it at all, there's no way Rangiku would be quiet of the fact with her outgoing talkative personality. There was never a scene in the manga or anime where Isshin was seen by either Toshiro or Rangiku. Also why do so some feel slightly disrespected when Ichigo talks to certain shinigami so conveniently, Toshiro is one of them, even though he's a son of an ex-captain and royalty?
You mischaracterizes her yes she dies have an outgoing personality but she also a person that understand when to keep things under wrap look at momo for example when she gave aizen letter to her she was meant to head thst in for invagtion but didnt and gave it to momo and told no body about this hell she didnt even look into it another example with orihime when she was comforting her she never told rukia about it . Rangiku known when to keep quiet about things
I really Kubo had just drawn 1 panel of Toshiro, Matsumoto, and Isshin talking together. No words for the readers just the 3 talking in one panel and then it would end up explained chapters later.
HAHA! I was thinking the same. And funny enough I went to smoke and I wanted to search for this hehe awesome
Yeah, that is definitely a cop out. It's too important to the story to be left out. He either didn't plan for Isshin to be in the 10th division and changed his mind later or just didn't think about it. Him saying they didn't want to interfere doesn't match their personalities. Matsumoto ran after Gin for like the whole series. They would have definitely talk to him to hear his side.
Thing is tho Matsumoto loves gin and gin went to the bad side Ofc she would spend like the whole series running after him wanting to know why especially after already having left her before when they were younger, compared to having respect for your former captain and respecting his decision to live a quiet peaceful life in the human world not interrupting that shows respect and an understanding that is isshin didn’t want involvement in the shinigami life even after getting his powers back and if you think about it when he did get back involved again it was to protect his family… they are on two different ends of the spectrum
So I think that every major character in gotei 13 knew about isshin bit decided not to talk about it and disclose it because of central 46 as they would do anything to punish isshin and his family with him in the name of him being a traitor to stop the resurrection of shiba family as they hate the four great families as together they overpower the central 46 and cause having 1 single captain level shinigami would be a huge thing since byakuya is the only member from the four great family on that level with the emergence of rukia, youruchi coming back and now isshin they would do anything to keep hold of their powers
Na it’s 100% a plot hole that he went back and just retconned when he was asked about it
Rukia wasnt in the 13 court gaurd when Isshin was a captian and im sure Ken Shiba wasnt going to bring up the fact that one of his family wa a captain and then went missing in the world of the living
i beleive Toshiro and Matsumoto has personally came to Ichigo during arancars arc instead of other captains
I wish we had an episode where toshiro and rangiku would interact with their former captain Isshin, at least a scene between them, would be so touching and sentimental
We all know how gotei 13 members have alot of secrets and obvious relationships with people that only get addressed later. Like Matsumoto and Gins relationship for example
We still don't even know the extent
Didn’t even know he was their captain
i agree, could have been nice to just have a panel in the manga seeying toshiro and rangiku`s thought about a familiar spiritual pressure being felt and then bruhsing it off saying they shouldnt get involved/ interfere as they decided to do so in the past.
could have intrigued the readers/viewers about who they could have been refering to. while some could ahve realised they could ahve been talking about ishin.
which then later would have been confirmed.
The foreshadowing in bleach is one of the best in shounen
why does isshin and ichigo have getsuga tensho and why doesn't yoruichi ever use her zanpakuto
I imagine a missing/rouge caption would be kind of a big deal if they couldn't locate him it's stands to recognize him either
first example hinting at a relationship at Ryouken and Isshin doesn't specify it's ryouken is the boss. Stating tell him it's a request from Kurosaki could mean anything.
Second example saying he had his own powers could easily be interpreted as any powerful soul has the power to be a soul reaper. That's the criteria soul reapers are judged on.
Fourth example with Isshin, Matsumoto, and Hitsugaya makes no sense. Their captain suddenly goes missing with no explanation or clues for 20 years after a mission he was sent to the real world and never returned? Something obviously happened to their captain. Even if they don't have enough questions, they would feel remorseful for not being able to stop the outcome. It's ridiculous to hand wave it by saying they knew, but didn't react, acknowledge or say anything about it.
Fifth example where you said Matsumoto and Htisugaya decide not to interfere with their captain is because of their insufficient strength so your argument falls flat.
Kubo is notorious for having a general idea of what he wants to do, but not having details nailed out. Hence the plot holes. No need to fan boy and cover up mistakes. He's human. He makes mistakes. And the weekly serialization where you never know when you'll get cancelled makes people make even more mistakes.
yea i agree with you not in manga at least in the anime where they gave 100s of fillers that small interaction wouldve been a relief for me as i got too much into bleach that i cared abot the interactions too lol
I doubt anyone discovering his existence in the human world would be a issue at that point considering his son has save the soul society numerous times. The only thing it would do is confirm the suspicions Ukitake and Kuchki had about Ichigo in the beginning.
Should have just made them come when Isshin was away on a trip or something.
There is no way that neither Matsumoto nor Toshiro had a single thing that they wanted to say to Isshin. That's just not how relationships work. There must have been at least one sentence that they felt a need to say to eachother. There should have been at least one page where the three acknowledged each-other's existence.
He could've just admitted that he got lazy in the end and did not want to make a panel of that interaction.
alright so he does it off screen yet showcases the past. That's fine. But you can tell he didn't plan or put too much thought into it, since these are Shinigami and the fact the go to the living world ever so often, they had to have spot him a few times. Showing a present interaction with the three when he got his powers back seems important to his storyline at least.
I read volume one and noticed at the end of chapter 1 itself when the hollow got away he said yelling at Ichigo “I thought when you became a soul reaper you’D save us!?” Vol 1 page 61
Also a side question u know with ganju and kukaku. Did they recognise ichigo to be isshin kid. Not sure since ganju kept trying to fight with ichigo even though he looks like kaien. Ik later on in the tybw they talk about isshin but didn't see any hints before that
I think that they didn't recognize him and just ignore his presence. If Isshin was suppose to be a captain,then his former vices would have at least inner monologue between themselves. Besides, they were occupied with Aizen's rebellion and soon after Quincy (not to mention Fullbringers). In the end, Kubo made a soft retcon.
I agree with the idea that somebody should have mentioned something either either the tooth notice should have said something to each other or one of them should have made a comment to him or even to Ichigo somewhere somebody said something
maybe Kubo just didn't know whether he was gonna make isshin a captain or just a regular soul reaper