The Brilliance of Doom Eternal's Weak Point System
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- #doom #doometernal
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Its not really a bad thing but when 20 things shooting at you constantly and you are trying to keep moving to avoid taking damage and there's a cacoboy that shoots 3 blueballs in burst, you are dead.
That's what frustrating!
You are surrounded by heavy enemies and you are prioritizing them and suddenly an arachnotron fucks you over from behind your back.
Its moments where you have to be precise to destroy those weakpoints that's what frustrating!
Its very hard to keep your calm and fight things when this occurs and you die.
Mayo listens to aespa? 👀
"Weak point system" nah shoot it till it dies screw weak system i just wanna keep firing and dodging.
Doom Enternals weakpoint system shows that the arsenal itself is to bloatet so the game has to force you to use specific weapons instead of making every weapon useful outside of specifically created circumstances even though the weapons itself are all very similar in function, even regarding the weapon mods of the guns.
Can a full auto shotgun break weak I wanted to learn
You shoot the weak points to kill the enemies faster.
I shoot the weak points for the "DING!" sound.
We are not the same
You shoot demons in the head to get the headshot achievement.
I shoot demons in the head for the "POP!" sound.
We are not the same.
Bet you love the sound of that "PING" when a M1 Garand goes empty 😊
@@noobguy9973"You love the Garand Ping sound because it's satisfying, I love it because it means my enemy is empty on clip, we are not the same." - a bolt action enjoyer
I know you tried to do a funny here, but i think this is a good example of the whole "extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation" thing, one person has the extrinsic motivation of making the enemy weaker by shooting the weakpoints, and the other has the intrinsic motivation of hearing a cool sound by shooting the weakpoints, and this is just another example to me of the fact that games not only can, but SHOULD have both types of motivation for their players to strive for if they want to make an engaging combat system, and this can be applied to even such a simple thing as shooting an enemy in the right place with the right weapon, and i honestly wouldn't even notice this if not for this comment heh.
No I hate eternal because of low ammo amounts and the emphasis on jumping and stuff
You forgot the most CRUCIAL part of the weakpoints design!
they make a DING sound when you shoot them. How could anyone hate that??
The headshot-pop sound is really nice too.
You shoot a grenade into a Caco's mouth because you need health. I shoot a grenade into a Caco's mouth because the animation is funny. We're not the same.
i shoot a caco point blank with a rocket launcher on ultra nightmare difficulty so we both die together, permanently. We are even more not the same.
@@sum8601well played
🗿🗿🗿
i find the Zombies unreasonably hard because they have NO specific weakpoints you could target.
I know literally unplayable😭
Yes they do, it is called the head
Precision headshot or sticky. Not technically weak point but they do the trick
In 2016 one of the advice it gives you is "if it has a head it has a weak point"
Their weak point is all of their body with any amount of force
This feels like 2020 again with all this Eternal content and I love it
Fr fr 😭
wait i just noticed this video is 7 hours ago lmao thats crazy
Yeah the DOOM hype train is at full steam again. I love it hahaha
Simpler times 🥹 (back when for a brief moment Mick was still working with ID on doom before eventually, the ost diabolical ..)
SSG and ballista combo is every living beings weak point
I think PB-Rocket deals more damage
@@Fedor_Kisliakov SSG/Ballista is faster
@@Fedor_Kisliakov and PB-SSG for short range.
big facking gun 9000 is the holy messiah for the weak point haters
Wait until SSG-punch-SSG shows up.
Weak point haters when they learn that FPS games had headshots before doom eternal and thus forces them to Aim their gun: 🤯🤯🤬😡💀
on jod
@@Arva_ xddd
I love weak points and weaknesses, I don't like how Eternal handles it.
@@night1952 ok... Why?
@@necrosteel5013 because it turns encounters into checklists, if you don't use the specific weapon to do the specific thing you're playing poorly and will die because enemies are too tough to kill without exploiting their weaknesses.
New Doom game announced
Mayo- awakens from a coffin somewhere decrepit as fuck
FINALLY YYYYY I can breathe again
Just like doomslayer
"I live, again!"
*not for long*
I mean, he’s been making plenty of videos and streaming and such since he stopped making so much Doom content… it might have not been your personal cup of tea but it’s not like he hasn’t been doing stuff he’s passionate about…
@@HS-mn6jc nobody cares about anything he makes except Doom and God of War. You really believe people are coming in droves to see what he thinks about selaco
The cacodemon gulp animation and sound effect is the greatest thing in the game
The destructible demons system also adds a cathartic element to weakpoints. Visual feedback for your decisions in combat is not only good design, but also dumps just enough serotonin into your system that you continue to seak out the weak points, all of which make fighting easier. Mayo, I think your sekiro video was all wrong, but these doom breakdowns are the kind of analysis that a game as complex as doom deserves.
Also, it adds an organic healthbar to the enemies without the need of a legit healthbar
@@YEY0806 no, it does not. the damage you deal to an enemy while breaking a weakpoint is the base damage of a weapon, meaning it's not a fixed value that you can base any calculation off of. Weakpoints are ofc a cool system, but entirely divorced from health management
@@7enima682 I meant the destructible system
@@YEY0806in fact, i do sometimes have moron moments and skim over the things i read and miss crucial context and reply without thinking. sorry for that!
@@7enima682 it's alright, we all do have those moments
My favorite thing about the weakpoint system is that literally any heavy impact damage can take it out and nearly every weapon either does heavy impact or has a heavy impact option.
And you don't even NEED to take them out, it's just a faster alternative. Imo weakpoint system is great design and helps the player figure out what they like using.
Or in more than a few cases, it doesn’t matter. Like I view revenants as a kill now so I’ll blood punch other things
Seeing how 2016 came out nearly ten years ago makes me feel so old. I can't wait for Dark Ages!
I'm just happy that I finally don't have to focus purely on enemies' heads as their universal weak point in pretty much every FPS ever. Finally some good fucking varierty
You don't see anybody complaining about headshots in other games. Even though it's very similar. It's much quicker and more ammo efficient, like aiming for weak points in Doom. I've never once heard anyone complaining that "Call of Duty forces me to aim for the head" before.
People would rather make up excuses rather than simply outright say the game isn't for them.
@@danielgeronimo5538 That's a nice way of saying "They can't camp"
@@vespenegas261That doesn't have any correlation to the mind and original commenters points but okay
@@danielgeronimo5538 I was replying to you. They still can't camp.
Doom Eternal is full of "I didn't know that" moments. For casual gamers who dutifully follow the tutorials, it's only natural for them to do as they're told.
I agree that the tutorial really led to a lot of these opinions. It's actually jarring when you see people say things like, you can only kill Hell Knights using the chaingun.
the so called free thinkers when a red light comes up on the traffic light
I feel like it was made this way to stop people from just running through with ssg + gauss like in 2016. Some people still bitch about it but the majority of players discovered a ton of weapon combos they wouldn't have thought to try if they didn't each have an advantage
Ultrakill wants to know your location
It's the funny and sad thing about catering to the lowest common denominator. They always have two types of criticism: a game has to work just like another mass common denominator game 99% of the time. The 2nd critic is something taught in tutorial isnt meant to be a starting point/option but the only valid gameplay.
U ou love how people figured out there where weak points only in eternal when, idk, shoot a cacodemon’s eye with the gauss canon in 2016 and it blows up instantly, and the fact that in 2016 one loading screen tip is “if the enemy doesn’t have a weak point, shoot it’s head for additional damage”
Caco has had enough of this
It’s an improved and more interesting version of headshots. For me, if there’s no bonus for precision in an FPS, then the combat feels bullet-spongey.
One of the most common complaints I've heard recently about Eternal is that it's too fast. I couldn't help but recollect the time before 2016 was released when everyone was complaining that it looked too slow.
You can’t make people happy. But what I love is that I play eternal mostly on ultra violence, my little brother (10) is able to play it on the easiest difficulty and the game really does slow down a lot for him
Doom Eternal being 'too fast' is subjective but I do feel like the way the game was designed is pretty rough for controller players. I've played it on console and PC and it's just a very different game on console than PC.
I'm glad that they made a game putting M&K first! But it might be worth looking at some of the criticisms of the game from the POV of someone playing on console
To be fair, the marketing people at ID do tend to play the games a bit slower, and on controller too, probably for the sake of making the footage as legible as possible. Even Eternal looked slower in the trailers than it actually is.
OG doom kid here, it's a hard game even on easy mode. It's a good game, but my reflexes and patience aren't at teen level anymore. I like doom 3 the most personally.
in pretty sure that's the reason my dad refuses to even try the game and he got me into doom when I watched him play 2016
Your video autoplayed while i was chopping veggies, so please don't consider me a part of your target discussion. I can only speak to my experience with Eternal, not as to whether it's good or bad.
I played a ton of Doom 1 and 2 when i was a child. My dad was dating a rich woman, and he'd bring me over to her place and we'd stay there all weekend. She let me check out her PC, which had the classic Dooms.
When I bought Eternal, I did so mostly out of nostalgia. I was hoping to enjoy a more classic experience of run and gun with all the modern Doom visuals and music. I got annoyed at how ammo was always low, and the game seemed to want me to play a certain way. I guess you could say the weaknesses aspect.
I was remembering this impression when your video was playing. And i noticed how every second or two you'd toggle a new gun to take advantages of weaknesses. A perfectly valid way to play. You're well rewarded for doing so.
But I didnt want to play that way. I wanted to play this game like a kore current version of the old dooms. I did try. But the game dosen't reward this play. You run out of ammo fast, there's not enough armor and health pick ups to support it, etc.
I will say that towards the end of the game i was getting used to the game. It flowed a lot better for me, and if I went for a second run maybe I'd have enjoyed it more with this skill under my belt.
I wonder if the impressions your video are reacting to are from people like me. People that wanted to play one way, and felt forced to play a different way. Folks that didn't commit to a 2nd run with improved skills, and were just left with that intial impression.
And I get that. You could always lower it to easy and struggle far less with health and armor. But yeah there's a flow to learn, like there is in most games. Like, there are people who came into Doom 2016 and tried to play it as a cover shooter because all they knew was basic Halo or Gears of War. They got destroyed, until they played by Doom 2016's rules which was aggressive combat and no hiding. You can either try to get into it, or say you don't like that the game won't let you play how you want.
I'm glad the flow worked better for you as you gave it more time even though it wasn't what you were expecting. From the looks of it, you'll like the next one a lot more.
Very cool that this video autoplayed for you and you enjoyed it.
Also weakpoint system allows ID to send powerfull demons after the player early in the game. In doom 2016 mancubus,revenant,cacodemon all of them came at the middle of the game. In eternal being able to break weak point even the field when you encounter those monster in the 2nd or 3rd level,allowing ID to send more variety of demons in the 1st level and not only imp and possessed soldier.
Also I remember at the launch of the game,nobody really knew all those cool weapon combo and even the depth of the falter mechanics so breaking those arachnotron turret and mancubus canon were a good way to neuter the long range threat,allowing you to focus on the pressure unit,those snake and hellknight for example.
It's a cool and kinda unique feature,I don't understand why some people people don't like it.
I can honestly understand the “the game limits my freedom” for some enemies. LOOKING AT YOU STONE GARGOYLES. But the weakpoint system itself is amazing because there were some methods he forgot to mention. Such as grenades, and rocket launcher. Also just targeting these weakspots with any weapon allows for it to be destroyed it just takes longer
@@CapmSHAM The subject of ennemies forcing a tactic is an open debate for the DLC especially part 2. But not for the base game.
Because a lot of people come from different backgrounds. Be it arcady call of duty-esque games that dont really require you to learn while playing, you just auto-pilot run stop and shoot; or they are the representation of a casual player, who spends most of his free time watching netflix and hanging out with girls. I am mmmaybe a little bit biased here but thats how I see the situation.
good point i never really thought of this but just because of the weak point system they were able to up the ante from the get go and get more creative in enemy design as soon as possible. ID is the from software of shooter devs
@@renedan7247 I don't really think it differs much from shooting men in the head and using explosives to take out tanks. I don't recall anyone complaining about the weak points in 2016 either.
i'm surprised people didn't like the Weak Point System.. it's incredibly fun to target each demon with a specific weapon in a specific area. Devs innovate and People want stale, familiar gameplay.
i think the vast majority of people who complained about eternal were just not able to deal with the games speed and refused to turn difficulty down🤷
Nah, most people like it. It's just those who don't tend to be endlessly vocal and obnoxious about it.
People's lack of willingness to learn new mechanics is exactly why the game industry is in such a terrible space right now. Also the way people just share similar opinions in the echo chamber that is social media and youtube sometimes without even playing the game or giving it a fair shot. Doom Eternal is one of the better designed games in a very long time. Once you learn the game it's so satisfying and fun. Like what was stated in the video there is many ways to play. From what I've read it sounds like ID software might be finally folding under pressure with the dark ages and that is so unfortunate to me because I think they really were pushing the shooter genre to the next level with doom eternal.
When people say they think Doom Eternal is a bad game, or even if they say they think it's worse than 2016, I know that I can't relate to or put any weight on their taste in shooters. Like, DE is full-stop the best FPS I've ever played. Maybe I only think that because I'm a boomer, but I don't think that anyone plays DE at a decent skill level and thinks it's not fun. I think most of the complaints come from people who don't want to play a really difficult shooter that holds them accountable for their decisions, and they don't understand that they'd rather play something simpler, so they end up thinking the game is bad.
Yogiri victims
This game is insanely good, I've sunk a few hours in lately and felt the amazement back again
100%
Doom Eternal and Wolfenstein (The New Order and Colossus) are my favorite shooters. Coincidence? I don't think so 😂
Guys, I finished my first ever playthrough on ultraviolence and I never knew the last pip on the chainsaw recharged. I literally played the whole game without that. There were enough resources to go around lmao
You can also just completely ignore the weak point system and still kill stuff, it just exists as an option for player.
I always found it more fun to toss a frag grenade into the cacodemon's mouth because the trajectory made it harder to do. I also tended not to use the ice bomb because I don't really care for weapons like it in shooters. You absolutely can succeed by doing pretty much anything you want with the game as long as you use the options you like effectively. Even on nightmare
Brawler skills
The weak point system is such a cool thing in the game and makes target prioritization much easier. For example, the cacodemon is a menace early on, not targeting him will most likely get you killed, the arachnatron's turret is a pain to deal with as it shots in rapid burst, knowing your enemies and weapons is essential in the arenas, as you progress, harder it gets. Saying that the weak point system force you to play in only one way is pretty much bad understanding of the enemies you're fighting and weapons at your disposal.
We are so back
The satisfying “Ping” of breaking a weak point will never be topped ..
Bascially the play-as-you-want abundance philosophy thats dominated gaming from the mid 7th gen up to now has plateaued.
To engage the player they have to reintroduce the classic philosophy of steering people to improvising around limitations
The user experience in this game is one of a kinda - as a UX Designer myself - I felt represent when I saw all the elements coming together to convey an UX core principle that is "don't make me think" or in this case: don't make me think too much.
My girlfriend which isn't an FPS gamer by any means managed to find her way into the game by pay attention to the hints "chainsaw for ammo" "fire for armor" "weak points" etc. I can't imagine the time spent into this game to develop all these concepts into something so smooth like this. Indeed, as you state on the video title, it's brilliant.
Congrats for another great video, mate. Cheers
I think the weak point system was the best addition to Eternal. It fixed or improved several issues in 2016 like the lack of benefits to precise aiming, the lack of response from enemies when they take damage, the lack of strategic variety etc. Really amazing how a single mechanic can make such a difference.
Not many things that are as enjoyiable in Eternal as emptying all 12 barrels of the chaingun into something. Cacos, Pain elementals, Barons - whatever.
I think people who didn't like eternal combat were probably the majority of 2016 fans, where in that game there is no weak point
The argument always boils down to "I can't play Eternal the exact same way I played Doom 2016"
Which is a valid *subjective* reason to not like the game! The problem comes when people try to turn that into an *objective* statement of "the game forces you to kill demons in only one way", which is not valid, because it's factually wrong.
Makes me wonder what they'll think of Doom: Dark Ages as its doesn't seem the play the same as either Doom 2016 or eternal.
Well the funny part is that they can. The game just isn’t designed for that because it expects the player to actually be competent at shooters instead of just being a LMB/RT simulator, so they get punished for it unless they’re on an easier difficulty.
Matter of fact, that was pretty much every 2016 enemy. You just shoot at demons with no feedback until they go into glory kill state. The only moment-to-moment gameplay choice to be made is whether to glory kill if you need health or I-frames.
All the demons can be approached and handled in the exact same way and there’s no point choosing different weapons most of the time. Unless you’re low on ammo, the safest bet is to just always use whatever does the most damage.
That’s exactly what it’s like playing Eternal without engaging with the weak point, falter, and demon weakness systems. Just point and shoot. It’s fun but at the same time it’s boring.
But the thing is, at least in the main game.....you actually can. No weakpoint is mandatory to destroy ever. The only difference is, in Eternal you'll chainsaw much more if you stick to the same ammo type, but if you want to, the game doesn't stop you. There's a run of a guy beating the game with just the combat shotgun as his main weapon, on UN. Sure he chainsaws a lot, but he pulls it off
Well there are a few different types of weak points. For the Cacodemon, Maykr Drone, and Blood Maykr, attacking the weak point actually kills them or sends them into a glory kill state. With most other enemies, attacking the weak points staggers them and reduces the threat they pose as you deal with other stuff. There's generally no need to target the weak points if you're going to kill them immediately afterwards, but if you're going to leave that Arachnotron alive for a while, it's a lot better for it to not have that turret blasting you. It's about managing the risk enemies pose.
It's also not an entirely new concept. The Fallout games let you cripple an enemy's limb, and even Dead Space let you slice a dangerous appendage off a necromorph.
My issue was the first arachnotron tutorial didn't properly embed the idea of using the sticky bomb in my head- so I got stuck in a pattern of trying to just shoot weakpoints with the shotgun and assault rifle which of course doesn't really work. Once the sticky bomb idea clicked it was great...
I really hope TDA will also have a deep and engaging combat system. Not only would it be another Doom game I will have 1.6k plus hours of gameplay, we will hear you talk about Doom gameplay strategies and game design again.
I don't know if targeting metal weakpoints like the Revenant's shoulder cannons and the Mancubus' Arm cannons inflicts extra-damage but I hope it did so that high-level players would still be incentivized into destroying them. In TAG2, the addition of the Sentinel Hammer incentivized weakpoint targeting because you gain a hammer charge.
I guess these people play shooters without aiming for the heads
"Why can't I kill a tank with my M4? I want to play the game how I want!"
"Something, Something, Ultrakill" - Underthemayo
??? Just because his ultrakill opinions are trash doesn’t undermine the rest of his content on doom
I think the reason why people (myself included) don't like the combat system of 2016 and Eternal, and keep complaining about it, is because they like the classic fps combat formula,
with a set of separate weapons (melee, pistol, shotgun etc), no moba-like special abilities, no glory kills, just hit enemies till they die, no setting them on fire to get extra shit, monsters just drop ammo for the gun they carry. We're retrogrades, we like what was imprinted into our little kids' brains as the 90s kids.
Had to double check to make sure it wasn't 2020 again.
Well, butter me backwards and call me a biscuit. Good, classic feeling video, Mayo!
"Doom Eternal fans aren't toxic!"
Doom Eternal fans: 01:40
Oh yeah that's so toxic lol. Overreact much?
@@underthemayo
My guy you are literally calling people who don't agree with you crazy. Tell me how that is not toxic. Go ahead, I'm listening.
It's definitely a big misunderstanding for sure.
I feels like the weak point tutorials actually did a somewhat of poor job explaining to the new comers in which they felt like X weapon is the ONLY way to destroy the Y weak spot and then the new comers feels forced and obligated to do those tricks through out the entire game just cus the tutorials says it's the most effective rather than they come up with their own strategies and they might even forget that later weapons will also be effective.which you've just explained
Like maybe if those tutorials didn't really exists and had those very same people figure things out on their own that they can actually destroy the enemies weak points and exploit enemies weakness even if it means they'll have to deal with trail and error,Maybe they'll enjoy it more and don't feel forced ??..But i guess again like you said,It'll be very hard for them
but hell if i figured out on my own that i can put a Caco on the glory kill state with a nade without a tutorial pop up telling, I'd be super surprised and even feel proud that i found something pretty cool on my own ya know ?...Maybe people need to be more creative.
If there are few moments where i actually felt a tiny bit forced is when i am fighting the marauders,It's not that they are hard or anything,they are quite easy once you figured out the tactic
It's the fact that i specifically have to do that said tactic to effectively take them down when i was wishing i could just temporarily destroy their shields with my plasma gun which you can't or i just want to one shot him and be on my way which again you can't but i think that's just a me problem.
now imagine if this game was faster and there was no ammo , and possibly a coin gun
I often end up accidentally breaking parts rather than intentionally.
Im one of the weak point system haters. I love the idea and the options it opens. The problem for me is that when i play a game, i usually dont look up online how much damage each weapon in my arsenal does and memorize the health pool of enemies. When im shown a sticky bomb sets a caco up in glory mode, thats what i continue to do. Once i get the rocket launcher i try to shoot the caco in the mouth, make a direct hit and.... No glory kill mode. Every time I watch one of these videos i learn more things i had no idea about. The game never once told me, and definitely never encouraged me to try them out. "You can kill 3 caco's in one charged ballista shot!" Thats great, but to pull it off i need to know that those 3 will spawn. I need to know where to path them to line them up. I need to know which enemies to eliminate beforehand to be able to safely line up that shot. In the heat of a battle am I going to be able to do that? What incentive did I have to try? Making the wrong move in this game is more punishing than most and I like that but there needs to be more information relayed to me as a player before i try things out that could cost me.
If enemies had a health bar that had a glory kill window in it i think this would really help with people trying things out mid combat. As a player i would be seeing "ok on this enemy this weapon does this much damage" and naturally internalizing those statistics. Eventually I could see any enemy in the game and immediately think of multiple weapon combos to put it in glory kill mode, or kill outright. As the game stands I need to memorize enemies and specific weapon combos. If that enemy was shot by another enemy so his health pool was lower? Too bad I just lost out on my glory kill window and had no way of knowing. If I also dont have that weapon combo memorized that it SHOULD put that enemy in glory kill mode I will now process that as a combo I should NEVER use because last time i did it failed.
Yes health bars would be ugly. But as an example i think it works well here.
You need the game to tell you to experiment with your arsenal and hold your hand to tell you "hey, there are 3 enemies lined up in close formation, maybe try using the INSTA KILL WEAPON that turns your entire screens width into a blade" ?
you dont need to memorise damage for anything in this game. I dont play this way, and most people dont either. You do get a feel for things if you play, but for the most part you absolutely dont have to worry about it at all. Shoot until glory kill and shoot until dead works very fine on nightmare.
Also, the idea that you need to memorise damage done to demons in order to not overshoot the glory kill state straight up isn't true.
Aside for fodder demons, all other demons get automatically put into glory kill unless you hit them with something that is vastly overkill. You can visually see how weak an enemy is. An arachnotron is literally blown to pieces and is almost unrecognisable because their brain is shot to pieces? MAYBE consider hitting them with the shotgun and not a 3 round rocket burst.
All in all, enemies will end up in glory kill states often enough just out of accident 90% of the times. And triggering the state on purpose really isn't that difficult with consecutive fire weapons. when i need a glory kill right this second, i always assault rifle/plasma rifle chip a fodders health down. sometimes tap-fireing the weaker ones to be sure. I rarely have to because again, if you dont blatantly ignore the literal health state of the demons you know fairly reliably what they can take without knowing exact damage numbers, but it works in a pinch
You act like DE is some hyper precise game where the exact damage meta of every weapon needs to be learned and memorised against the entire enemy health pool table.
This game cuts you so much slack even on nightmare that, if you use half of the arsenal somewhat as intended, there is always a glory kill somewhere in the mix. same with ammo and armor
"something something Ultrakill" 💀
I find destroying weak points completely unnecessary, it might be good at the start but as you get more advanced it'll become almost completely obsolete
It’s kinda weird
At the beginning the weak points is the easiest way to kill strong enemies
But at the end of a casual play through you have so many more “powerful” options that weak points aren’t necessary to target
BUT when you start playing super optimally, You’ll find yourself targeting weakpoints again because well, it’s optimal.
Which, later on, you won't really need to utilize them seeing as you've got a lot of things to kill demons later on.
omg hi m1
Weak point aren’t necessary to agree later on yes
Is it a good idea to cripple an enemy from afar and not focusing on him at full strength when you have more dangerous adversaries ? Yes
As I said not necessary but a good idea to keep (I say that but forget to lot of the time use it)
@@HorizonDR I'm sorry but who are you? Lol
On my first playthrough I didn't use the weakpoint system at all. I beat it on Ultra Violence on a controller.
This isn't an argument against weak points. It's just pointing out that they're not entirely necessary to break to beat the game like some seem to think.
My first ever playthrough was pathetic, as I didn't use grenades and other new utilities as much as I should've. But the more you play, the more you progress - and the skill level you're able to achieve with time is deeply satisfying.
It reminds me alot of sekiro's prosthetic tools, where all have uses and too many people see them as one dimensional, choosing not to experiment with them to make interesting combos or when applicable in a boss fight, when in reality the variety is insane and very well done.
Demon of Hatred was a real prophetic check. If you use a certain whistle, you can stun-lock the boss for almost all of it's final phase, and the fire umbrella let you tank nearly all of it's attacks and unleash devastating counters.
@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer It's a fun fight if you don't use them though, despite the heavily decreased effectiveness.
My only complaint is that I feel like the Cacodemon eating bombs doesn't always work.
There have been *COUNTLESS* times I shoot a Sticky Bomb at a Cacodemon that isn't attacking at its oral region, and it doesn't eat it. That causes it to munch me for massive damage.
I honestly don't always go for the weak point, really because of the fact that there's other demons trying to kill me. If I have a chance to, most likely than not, I will go for the weak points. I have fun utilizing the weak points, but they aren't a necessity as long as I'm able to kill them. Plus, that ding is super satisfying to hear.
@@King_Randomgrandpa I find it strange to think there are people who think targetting and breaking an enemy weakpoints isn't a fun thing to do.
@underthemayo Indeed, Young One. There's many different reasons that it is fun to do so. For example, what makes it fun for me to do so is that you weaken something that is pure evil. We have, in fact, this mechanic in other gun games. It's just called head shots, which is another weak point in Doom.
As someone who always kinda felt the things you're arguing against, here's my perspective. To me, the simpler the rules, the more fun I have. Simpler rules that come to life through variety of situations and combinations of agents that all abide by these rules. A lot of Eternal's mechanics feel... arbitrary I guess? The game wants me to learn and master a lot of rules that feel like they're put there specifically as levers to control what the player is, if not forced, then at least encouraged to do, instead of emerging naturally from the "natural" interaction of the most basic rules. Why do certain weapons inexplicably do more damage to the weak points than others, for example? Because they made them work that way in the name of balance, forcibly. And that seems to apply to a lot of effects in the game. I was one of those people who has never used grenades in my first playthrough, because the idea that grenades are for some reason good for staggering never even entered my consideration. (I probably saw it somewhere and discarded it). Eternal feels like a game which has basic mechanics, and then countless layers of hardcoded exceptions and specific interactions put in. It is fun to learn for some, but not for me. I guess I prefer my oldschool FPS games to have really, REALLY primitive rules, but really extensive variety of complex situations that still work off of these very primitive rules. Like, I want how everything in the game works to be governed ONLY by the most surface level, baseline properties, such as how things move, how much damage things do, etc. I want the mechanics and rules to be as simple as possible, and the levels to be where the variety and complexity comes from - be it enemy combinations, complex geometry, resource scrounging and starvation, etc. Doom Eternal is overloaded with more complex mechanics that are just not engaging to me, and no part of me wants to extend the effort to learn the intricacies of exactly how the developers made these things work, because it feels so arbitrary.
Beyond this, I honestly have other problems with the nuDoom formula, such as infinite small enemies being your resource stations (because I love the satisfaction of slowly and gradually clearing out a battle arena, when every small enemy is a step towards that, but in Eternal they just come back to serve you more resources), and in general the idea of infinitely renewable resources, using canned kill animations, having abilities with cooldowns, half a dozen different upgrade currencies, heck, I don't even like the dash because I prefer having to maneuver between enemies and projectiles using normal movement instead, etc. etc. I like the platforming, though, because compared to the other stuff it's basic and raw.
Honestly, I get where the biggest fans of Doom Eternal are coming from, but nothing is universally appealing to everyone, and even to every FPS player. Simply understanding what Doom Eternal wants will not make it guaranteed fun for everybody that likes oldschool shooters. It was very funny when you were asking the questions believing that there was only one obvious answer, and seeing how I genuinely had the opposite opinion. I do not find it fun to shoot off enemy weapons. That chain of actions that you described did not sound fun to me. And yes, I do think that, among other things, I would enjoy this game more if weak points simply did not exist. The one thing I disagree with is that Doom Eternal makes people good at FPS games in general. I think Doom Eternal mostly makes people good at Doom Eternal, because the universal habits that it teaches other challenging FPS games also teach, but a lot of what you have to master for Eternal applies only to it.
It totally made me and other people better at FPS games. I know from experience and from conversations others. I've played fps games all my life, and going back to them after eternal I was better at quick decision making, multi tasking, aerial precision, threat prioritization, use of weapon variety, and identification of weapon utility. Dislike the game all you want but the statement that eternal only makes you good at eternal is simply false.
May I ask what's the name of the background music?
It almost sounds like it's Mirror's Edge Catalyst but I'm not sure.
And great & informative video btw, I've learned a bunch from your Doom-vids!
It's kinda funny how I hated Eternal at launch but then discovered your videos which suddenly turned me into a somewhat good player. Now I enjoy it on Ultra Voilence and it's so much fun just playing around with the different play-styles you can do.
At least one song is from The Ascent OST. That whole OST is great
half of the people who hate this game got clapped by the first marauder
Idk man, literally every criticism debunking video from you has a section of "you dont just dislike [criticism], youre just using it as an extension of your biases against the game" and Im saying it as someone who has no problem with weakpoints or care if a game wants me to play a certain way
Discovering different methods to kill enemies in Doom Eternal is one of my favorite parts about the game. I remember the first time I dropped a cyber mancubus into GK state with a meat meathook SSG into blood punch combo. I did it by complete accident, but it ended up becoming a key part of my arsenal.
I love targeting their weak points.
I'll be honest, I remember being one of those players who hated the Marauder on my first playthrough, believing that he didn't have enough weak points. But I loved the campaign overall, so I kept replaying it, which inevitably meant learning how to deal with that enemy type.
Nowadays I'm actually kinda excited whenever a Marauder shows up on the battlefield, I understand his vulnerabilities a lot better.
The background music you used is from The Ascent, amazing game
as someone who picked up DOOM Eternal just a few days ago for my first FPS game, just landing a shot on the week point is satisfying in itself
I know right?
The one thing i didnt like was how they turned the chainsaw into a reload button instead of an actual weapon, even nerfing it from working on larger demons.
10:47 I almost choked with that hot dog xd
I like the weak point system. It's the broader falter system that busts my balls.
Me personally i hope Dark Ages gives us more ammo capacity back, it's the only gripe i have with eternal, the over reliance on chainsaw to get ammo back. Some might prefer the constant weapon switching i personally prefer the way classics and 2016 did it.
I was one of the people who didn't enjoy the game. I dunno why exactly but have many theories. More on that later.
What surprised me is one of my favorite people who covered doom 2016 on UA-cam, Clockner, did not enjoy Doom Eternal at all. Granted they did not play the game for very long, I think one completion, and then checked out.
I hope they see this video and try to chnage their mind
Because now I think I enjoy DE. After 200 hours I finally start to enjoy the combat loop. I'm still not good, ssg balsita rl is my main combo and I don't really know how to use the other stuff in combos properly.
I think the simplicity of doom 2016 and fairly open arenas allow for much easier movement and less hard situations where people can freely experiment mid fight without needing to think too much. If one is used to all the button mashing required in doom eternal then it might be easier for one to enjoy DE but most people are like me and don't have the necessary skill to be able to stop thinking and go in the flow state.
This is also where doom 2016 suffers for the casual player. At nightmare the hardest levels are 1 and 2, because the access to guns is limited. And by the time players have access to the gauss cannon in lev 5, it is much much easier to progress. By the time you have played the game 3 or 4 times you can easily memorise spawns and by then the fun is in trying to speedrun a level (not literally, but trying to get through as quickly as possible). This is basically mastery of the game at the highest level. It is achievable and fun for a lot of people.
Idk if this holds true for DE because I just have recently been able to reliably do what I'm thinking in my mind. Apart from the general annoyances, the Ghost mob or getting stuck on walls, the most annoying part is fodder enemies. They get in the way so often especially in tight spaces.
All this to say I don't think people are just hating on DE for the sake of hating, perhaps they are just frustrated from being able to enter the flowstate very easily in doom 2016 and unable to do so in DE.
Glad you enjoy the game. Yeah some people hate it seemingly out of sheer desire to. And believe me, clockner doesn't give a fuck what I or anyone else thinks on this subject lol. He complained the arachnotron turret was OP.
The Ascent soundtrack fits really nice with this video
I tend to pull it out when I get serious about shit lol
Doom eternal is a brilliant game overall.
Weak point system was designed very well.
Using grenades frag/ice in different situations, chainsaw/flame belch for ammo and glory killing for health made the basic principles of the game very hard to be honest.
Techniques and memorizing what to do in any particular scenario without being obsessed was difficult.
Those who are very good at quake and doom 2016 still had to spend enough time to understand the game mechanics. Many casuals never dared to re attempt the game after facing their first arachnotron. So many people missed out on eternal just cuz ov this reason.
Quick switching, staying in the air, advanced mods and their 50 plus combinations and many other things has made half the population miss out on it just cuz you cant complete it in one go on normal difficulty without dying.
In short the initial learning curve was quite steep but once you get the hang of the mechanics the game becomes more rewarding too.
I just hope Dark ages is not criticized by eternal champs because they have spent more than a 1000 hrs mastering its techniques and the dark ages looks nothing like eternal. Stand your ground and fight kinda fps, less vertical movement too.
Me spamming the ssg hook + ballista/pb + blood punch combo on EVERY SINGLE heavy/super heavy encounter:
The against argument is basically the same as saying what's the point in headshots in games because they force a certain playstyle. Or what's the point in elemental attacks and weaknesses. These are just ways to design limits so the game can be more dynamic.
The underlying fact is that the weapons in DOOM Eternal are much more different from each other compared to other FPS's and have roles. The DOOM Eternal rocket launcher isn't just a hard hitting explosive gun. The air burst debuff is awesome. The chain gun isn't just a rapid fire spin up dps machine. Even the shot gun isn't just a basic weapon that most FPS would have made irrelevant later.
Most of my problems with Doom Eternal stem from the fact that consoles don’t have many options in terms of hot keys, so weapon switching strategies feel really impractical. Since opening the weapon wheel only slows down the action rather than pause it, I find myself being forced to play much more defensively than I would otherwise. And while I have no problem trying to go for weak points, it’s a hassle to switch to a better weak point breaking weapon.
Answering to your questions after finishing the game on Ultra Violence:
Yes, that's boring and really not fun for me.
Something is terribly wrong with your dopamine receptors. RIP.
I think the weak point system, along with the increased mobility from dashing, yeethooking, and ballista jumping allowed the devs to really crank up the lethality of the enemies while giving the player very clear-cut ways of neutralizing them. I’m hoping they approach Dark Ages with the same mentality; I want the difficulty to be punishing, while giving us the tools that, once mastered, make you pretty much unkillable. The insane power fantasy of Eternal was one you actually had to earn on Nightmare and Ultra-Nightmare, which is why the game really shines on those difficulty modes
I feel like anyone who complained about weak points hasn't played a shooter-style video game since before the original Goldeneye on N64. All shooting games have "weak points" aka headshots or other body parts. Halo had them (the unarmored back part of the Hunters) and I don't think I need to mention call of duty since headshots are basically a weak point that can be targeted there too. Just contrarian people trying to ruin an excellent game imo
Combat in doom eternal is like a making a work of art, once you learn your tools you are able to play around them and find alternative and more efficient ways to do certain things. The weak point system indirectly incentivizes this by making players use their brain more in high pressure situations. The Marauder is the biggest example of this in my opinion and i know you have a video on this guy too and my reasoning is largely the same. When you first meet him, you are pushed to use your heavy attacks on him while he is vulnerable but once you learn the game you learn how to keep him stunned down for longer with the grenades and can use weapon combos that can kill him in one cycle. The super shotgun eventually doesn't even become a necessity. I've also found that it is possible to kill him using sticky bombs on the floor with a reasonable amount of time for those who are less skilled at the game.
I think the overuse of tutorials in Doom Eternal didn’t help with player creativity when it comes to killing demons. I understand the purpose of the tutorials, but I think after a certain point, they are unnecessary. You can have a few in the first level to communicate to the player that the weak point system exists for all demons, but then to have it show up before every single encounter with a new demon really kills the joy of learning a new game, let alone getting creative with killing demons.
I know the argument of, “just turn the tutorials off then” will come, but I don’t think they’re all so bad, just poorly implemented. Giving the player a base understanding of the games’ systems is what a tutorial should do, not teach you how to kill every single enemy/boss encounter when it comes up.
The only problem I have with the weak point is that they give that prompt right before you engage the demons.
Me personally, would rather have to figure it out which would make the initial encounter that more scary and entertaining. Maybe give you a hint in the loading screen after it destroys you.
"On higher difficulties I cannot only use the super shotgun for every encounter therefore I do not like the game."
While obviously not in these exact words, this is usually the argument I see. Someone has a favorite weapon they want to use all the time and is disappointed that they have to interact with the whole game instead of chill out and relax. And to be fair, people were able to chill out far more with Doom 2016, so I believe a lot of people who dislike Doom Eternal were looking for more of the same. But I also think that a lot of these people refuse to attempt to engage with what Doom Eternal is. Because if you start to actually engage with the game (which mind you is kind of difficult), there is so much to enjoy.
First time i played Doom eternal I bounced off it super hard. And yeah the weak point system, low ammo forcing weapon swapping and glaring "arena" like those monkey bars just triggered my "the dev is trying to push an experience, and not a game". And the funny thing is that I actually LOVE arena shooters with a focus on mobility and I absolutely WANT to switch weapons all the time like the weapon wheel is a fidget spinner. But feeling that "nudge" towards my typical play-style was just like a kid that just got up to clean his room and his dad yells "Go clean your room". Now I wont do it!
Luckily i gave it another shot after my gut reaction died down and yeah, the game was a perfect fit. Fast paced, mobile, aggressive and as technical / brute force as you make it.
I've been saying for a long time that a lot of people who criticize being 'forced' to play a certain way in Eternal were just saying that out of childish oppositional defiance than any actual feeling about the game itself. Your comment really illustrates that point
@@superharsh6786 I'd say it's less oppositional defiance and more of an allergic reaction. Devs are so happy go lucky with skinner box mechanics and gaslighting that the playerbase became super sensitive to anything that smells like a psyop. Mostly I'd say it's a trust thing.
I'm that guy who still plays Quake III Arena 25 years later. If you want to win, among other things you have to switch weapons, but you don't switch weapons because the guy in front of you is a certain color and the weapons you have correspond to their color or whatever. You switch weapons because the guy is at a certain angle and distance compared to you, moves with certain velocity relative to you, has a certain weapon in his hands (so he'll try to force the encounter a certain way with his movement), there may or may not be walls and items around you, and you're holding a certain weapon already so you have to decide if the delay from weapon switch is worth it if it means you can get a cleaner shot, or maybe it's better to move into a better range, or maybe it's better to risk it, or maybe you disengage entirely... Switching weapons in Quake is fun because it's an actually involved tactical process, it's not reactive or spammy like it is in DE
Sorry mate that just sounds like oppositional defiance, saying Doom Eternal smells like a psyop for having an intended gameplay loop is loony af
@@superharsh6786 Dude, expecting dishonesty from game devs is the only reasonable move.
For example, there is a common trick they use where your hp is bottom heavy, as in the last 10 hp is actually about as potent as the first 50 hp, in essence the gaslighting you to into feeling that you barely made it. Or a game literally de-spawning pickups because you are cautious and they want to keep "the tension up".
And that's just the benign examples. Then you have the MMO grind thread-mills of useless, un-fun content that is just there to keep you from burning through the content too fast, so you keep paying them fees. And the strategy game lacking quality of life functions because each "race" needs an APM tax, because the more time is spent perfecting execution, the less time the player has to make a meta-breaking play. Oh and everything needs to be fast in a rts, because it's not about the players having fun, it's about the viewers and sponsorship. And it only gets dirtier from there with loot boxes, day 1 dlc-s etc.
Yeah, sorry, not sorry for assuming every psychological nudge in the game has something except my fun in mind. Except that Doom eternal only wanted me to have fun, and for it to look wickied sick while having fun.
Typically what I've heard is a complaint about the tentacles & the slime that slows down your movement.🤔
The only weakpoints I focus for after like half way through the ganes are mancubus and cacodemons. I genuinely cant believe anyone would complain about weakpoints, it make early game easier, and they become trivial late game and usually you end up destroying them without even focusing on
Well said! Each death teaches me to approach the encounter in a different way. I love the combat loop and it takes such a simple concept and makes it so deep and fun.
I think most modern players avoid difficulty that required them to strategize & be creative and more about observing enemy patterns and attack accordingly.
No finer pleasure than the crisp way Mayo pronounces Cacodemon 👌🏻
The weakpoint system is Awesome!
The best-feeling combos I think are the ones which employ weakpoints.
Here are my 2 favorites:
Mancubus: Sticky at the weakpoint->rocket->SSG
The sticky destroys a cannon and leaves the other at 1% health->the rocket destroys the other cannon-> meathook ssg in for the kill
Micro Missiles Primary Charger activation on cacos: sticky in the mouth->meathook+ssg->heavy cannon
The sticky puts it in a glory kill state and immobilizes it, meathook+ssg damages, and 1-2 heavy cannon shots kill.
I don't know if DA tops this.
I've literally never heard anyone say the weak point system is bad wtf.
You are so lucky. It was everywhere. And still gets brought up by people making the weirdest justifications.
I like the weak point system, but in the 2016 remake, most enemies had one weak point: their head. I was *very* disappointed this was removed for Eternal,. It was always super satisfying to be in the middle of an intense firefight and blow the head off of a revenant or hell knight with a perfectly timed double shotgun or gauss blast.
for me its not so much that weakpoints force you to do something but rather that they are a bit one-note. the reward you receive for destroying weak points is much greater than the skill required to do it, so much so there's no reason NOT to destroy weak points, unless you want to intentionally handicap yourself and keep arachntrons, mancubuses and cacos a threat throughout the game (which i did personally as they are more fun to fight as is than to cheaply disable/kill them).
i would have preferred more weak points that are less debilitating for the monsters, so there's some thinking involved with when to destroy weakpoint and when not to
also yes ultrakill's style meter did wonders to get the vast majority of its players in the fun zone contrary to someone's opinion, good on you for bringing that up at the end
The only slight complaint I can understand is that some have said they wish the tutorial prompts did not immediately tell you what the weak points are and instead the way you found the most efficient way to kill certain demons was just done during gameplay and your own experimentation. I could see a really cool organic moment when they shoot the sticky grenade at the turret and they realize "Oh wow you can do that? That's sick! I should try other mods on other enemies". However, I am not a game designer so I understand sometimes they just want players to be aware of systems and them most efficient possible is through a separate little tutorial moment.
Now before anyone responds with "well then you should have disabled the tutorials". Why would anyone do that on their first playthrough? Come on now lol. Especially if you go into this game blind and you do not know what to expect from it, or if you are a new Doom player altogether. Other than that though I completely agree with this video.
> Now before anyone responds with "well then you should have disabled the tutorials". Why would anyone do that on their first playthrough?
Why would you complain about 'em then? Pick your side already.
Seriously, just have a tutorial that says "Hey, enemies have weakpoints, here's ONE example. Figure out the rest yourself! Also, it's not ALWAYS the best, there's always other tactics". That will send a message straight. Instead, the way the tutorials present them paints them as these extremely essential mechanics with no other context, so of course people follow the tutorials and then complain! You didn't teach them how to think for themselves and use weakpoints to their advantage, you taught them how to do what they're told (especially with all the forced Cacofeeding at the start of the game).
A new player will follow tutorials because they don't know how the game works. They don't know how the game works because they're not the ones who designed and programmed it. Games, like all software, are ARBITRARY in their design, ways to win and lose are all made-up by the designer. A player won't simply ask a question of "but what if I don't?", because there's an infinite amount of ways to do it wrong and not so many ways to do it right, so they'll stick to what they know is right unless you actually give them confidence.
DOOM Eternal's "fun zone" design is intended to guide players towards fun, yet it only ended up doing the opposite for so many people. That's because it assumes fun lies in execution and not strategy. Even if the strategy exists and is totally really deep, even if it's thanks to these mechanics, they do major work distract from it. Mayo talks about all these high-level strategies, but that's not how people are going to play the game, it's not the impression of the game that the tutorials and early levels paint. The impression they paint is that you have to do what you're told, and doing what you're told is not the real "fun zone", coming up with what you're going to do is
In any other game, enemies have weakpoints and require certain strategies to over come and no one complains. It's the same thing in Doom but somehow very divisive.
Making the Kakodemon eat a grenade is hilarious as f. And the sound of swallowing is a cherry on a top. One time my daughter saw me playing and she was laughing at that giant stupid red idiot. The asked me to do some more and I loaded the checkpoint.
I loved the weakpoint system in Eternal - it's one of the reasons that I like Eternal so much more than 2016. Alongside seeing the damage you do over time to enemy models, the weakpoint system makes me feel like I'm actually having some kind of effect on the enemy, instead of just shooting a target until it dies. If you were to shoot at a car, you can effect its performance by maybe taking out a tire; if a person's knee was to be injured, they'd be less mobile or not as effective in a fight. It's that extra degree of control and decision making that lets me turn the tables on the enemy, another decision that's included in fast-paced gameplay that makes me feel not only powerful, but smart.
There are folks that hate shooting the weak points!? I loved the various weak points it helps make a situation fun and also make you feel like you’re an overwhelming force as you destroy everything!
Totally agree that Doom Eternal taught me how to be a better FPS player. It taught me how to swap between all the tools at my disposal to properly engage the current threat. It taught me that killing more things faster is more rewarding than trying to kill everything with the same weapon.
I really hope that Doom: The Dark Ages keeps expanding on the concepts that Doom Eternal established, but also manages to feel fresh and new in its own right.
My problem with Eternal is the need to switch weapons and mods so quickly, I simply don't have the reflexes to keep switching while repositioning or evading enemy fire!🙄
@@mmaldonadojr you don't really need to be switching constantly like that. All you need is a general sense of weapon variety. I recently did a video on that actually.
As a new eternal player im not playing much cos i dont want the first play experience to end. Original doom in the 90s was my 1st game when i was 10
The new doom games feel like bioshock infinit but faster. There was glory kills in infinit and it came out 3 years before doom 2016
The vigor combos also puts enemies in Bioshock in various states. All the more reason why that two weapon limit was so atrocious