Andrew Scheps on Recording Drums
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2016
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Leading mix engineer Andrew Scheps talks drum recording and processing with Russell Cottier at Monnow Valley Studios.
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I come back to this interview about every 6 months.
He is such a wonderful communicator, and very honest and humble. Thanks for posting!
He reminds me of some of my best college professors. He manages to give you a deeper understanding of all the stuff he talks about and he doesn’t over-complicate anything. Seemingly such a cool guy. Every time I try to apply the stuff he talks about, my mixes are instantly better. The mix bus 100Hz and 10kHz boost was a game changer for a newbie like me.
I'm absolutely in love with this man's philosophy.
I love this guy, hes so simple and smart...
I was sold by the first minute or so. GREAT vibe this guy has. Thanks!!!
Thank you for saying it so well about samples
I love his honesty
Great interview ...thanks .
Andrew is my hero.
"If I can make a record that's more fun to listen to by using samples, then I'm going to use samples." Excellent. If you can give the listener a better experience, do it.
Very well put, it is about the experience. But it is subjective. I have more fun listening to a real drummer with all the possible flaws and unexpected little moments, period.
The people against samples and pitch correction are just the gatekeeping elitists. Literally no one who is just a "listener" gives a shit how a song was made. They just care if it sounds decent or not. I use samples all the time, but sometimes I won't. It depends on the project, but I won't ever say "I'll never use that technique". You're just limiting yourself then.
From a producer standpoint I agree, although you might just as well say that the last 5% you get through samples are again probably not heard by 99% of the people. And if you need more than these 5%, you probably needed to do a better job before hand in recording. Then we come into the regime again of what mibdset you bring into this. Why have naturallx recorded drums in the first place? There are absolutely magnificent sample packs out there, people who can use them tastefully and the micro timing / micro level randomisers give it a human feel. So again - why use natural drums? The answer is, because we care, because we as artists as well as sometimes listeners identify with the craft of making music and creating a worthwhile experience with our bare hands.
From a musician standpoint, I also have a very high standard I hold myself to. I tune my drumkit REALLY well and I strive for not needing any enhancement to get the musical message that I have in my head out to the people. If I can't, I probably should not cover it up but do a better job.
Why not cover it up you ask? Again - we can and it WOULD sound better and make for a better listening experience in that particular case. But I think that the mindset to keep ones art as pure as I can is the one path that will in the long run create more experiences that are worthwhile and fulfilling. The attitude will reflect in my art over time.
@@Syklonus I don’t make music for listeners tho I make music for musicians
@@Syklonus limitation breeds creativity
Every musician, producer, engineer etc. should pay notice! I totally agree with Andrew. It 's my philosophy as well for almost 40 years in the stdio as a musician, producer and engineer!
Be to the point, down to earth. Learn people, learn!!! :) I would have loved to actually see him on the job in this clip!
Absolutely gold ✨
Yes. It is all about what people hear. Not how you do it, what did you use, where did you put the mic... It is about result, final product, that people enjoy or not. Most important, that you enjoy music you're making.
Brilliant! So informative.
Amazing advise. I love how he’s such an experienced engineer and knows most listeners have no idea what is happening mix wise so he experiments! Working fast is so important. Great knowledge here thank u for letting me soak it up and reinforce my using of my mixing toolset 🥂
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching and your feedback :-)
Simple wisdom from a great mind.
I truly believe in Andrew's beliefs and approach.
Everyone who makes music needs to hear this
I love his view on samples and correction. It's not how you get to the final result that matters but what quality the final result is. Anyone who cares enough to ask if you've used samples or other correction after they've listened to a mix, probably won't care too much about the answer. Because, if you use correction right, you would have enhanced the song and not replaced what made it musical in the first place.
Yeah well said. I don't like samples or pitch correction but I do think it's reasonable to use it the way he describes. The only thing is with editing and having the ability to edit/"enhance" with ease, there is a tendency to take away musicality because we're not perfect creatures, and some of the mistakes add beauty. The natural tendency is to want to fix things that don't really need to be fixed or enhanced. There are some obvious "flaws" in some of my favorite recordings but listeners seem to just embrace them. Sounds like Andrew doesn't get carried away though. I'm in a place right now of not wanting to edit takes at all, and using physical restrictions so I don't get carried away. It's normal to try and fix our flaws even when we shouldn't. Of course I'm not talking about horrible takes, littered with blatant mistakes to begin with. Just great takes that are magical but are off a bit in places. Find a way in the arrangement to mask the things you don't like as much, is my current approach. ha
Well put! Totally agree!
If you've ever really paid any attention, samples and "fixing everything" makes ever single song and drummer sound the same. I want to hear the drummer, the room, the kit and the mistakes and the unique timing of the drummer... not time aligned samples.
What's the point of using a drummer then anyway if you're replacing drums with samples and time align everything.
Great interview here. Something that I'll gladly admit that I needed to hear. Especially, his point about 99.9% of people don't care how you made a recording happen. Just get it done right.
Only the elitist hipsters with the analogue gear care. No one else give a shit as long as it sounds good.
Aaaaaaaand this is why I love him, such wise words, get over yourself and just serve the track, would love to record with him, oh the dreams. :)
finally one guy with a clear perspective....
What kind of recording studio is that? Where is the laptop and Ableton controller? Just some weird table with lots of knobs.... :)
Andrew doesn't care about that funny looking desk any longer since he's %100 ITB anyway :)
@@PhiladelphiaDon He still tracks through outboard and the desk though, and that's rather important! Although I'm seriously fond of Scheps' idea that once it's ITB it's not coming out :P
As long as there is a LARC on the desk, it looks brilliant ;-)
Finally someone speaks the truth about samples and vocal tuning! I've had far too many arguments about this with musicians and AS is right, 99.9% of people could give a s***. If people only knew how many vocal takes were done/comped to get the final version of what they hear on the radio/favorite records, etc..haha!!!
Good one.
6:07 -> The End
Wow! As a creative… that is such a freeing statement.
Bruh I have to share this somewhere. A local producer, here in The Midwest, made a post saying “saturation before compression, always.” Odd, but inoffensive comment. But then he followed up with why: “when it comes to drums and cymbals, the transients are way too sharp, and CoMpReSsOrS rEaCt StRaNgElY tO tRaNsIeNtS. I use saturation to blunt the transients so they don’t cause the compressor to react so much.” My friends all agree his mixes sound blunt and lifeless, taking the power away from the exceptional bands he’s recorded, and I’m pretty sure this is why.
1) a compressor is a VCA being controlled by a detection circuit, reacting to transients is literally the whole point. Taking transient information away from the source signal just gives the compressor less to work with. I would never do this unless the sound was simply too attacky, at which point I would probably ask “do we have any better sounding drums we could use???”
2) adding so much harmonic distortion (AKA saturation) that it changes the balance of the transients is the anti-thesis of what guitarists want in the studio. They have spent hours and hours adjusting their distortion settings, you are there to capture not change! If the tone does need thickened, you’d be doing that at the mix phase anyway unless you were actively experimenting in the recording space. As far as drums, if you need that much saturation (first in the signal chain, no less) to make the, sound good, then again GO FIND BETTER SOUNDING CYMBALS. 99 percent of “I don’t like this drum sound” can usually be fixed up front by switching out the drummer’s cymbals.
3) years of presenting clean, high fidelity mixes to local bands I’m in, only to constantly be told that I don’t know what I’m doing, while they put on some local hustler’s track that clearly sounds like “let’s try this plugin… let’s try this one… let’s try this one” with no understanding of what the signal chain is actually accomplishing has driven me to the point of insanity. It’s gaslighting, plain and simple. This guy has a million dollar studio and everyone walks in so impressed by it all, only to find out he has an ass-backwards understanding (or lack thereof) of his own equipment, yet no one involved knows enough to call him on it. Stop the ride, I want to get off.
This interview confirms my suspicion. When I win the gigantic lottery I will hire Andrew to come help me create some amazing beautiful music. 😎
What a guy, what a great attitude, what a great end result.
You do not need to win the "gigantic lottery" to make beautiful music .... make the beautiful music first. In this day and age you have no excuse...
Genius speaks.
Is this vintage u87 in figure8 instead of lavalier mics?
Yes cuz gud
Holy lord! 18 mics on a drum kit! Woah mama this guy ain't fooling around. I don't even own that many mics lol!
I have more in common with this guy than I would have thought. As in, "If it works, do it"....
Depends on how much time you want to spend mixing, too. If you're recoding live, you can get a great sound with a D6 on the bass drum, a 57 on the snare and a LDC/Ribbon in a mid/side configuration just over the drummer's head. You need a well-tuned kit with a lot of resonance as well as beautiful cymbals, and there will be a lot of bleed. If you're peeling track by track, isolation is really important.
dont get the D6. the mid lows are pre cut on a certain frequentie wich limits your options. just chug a d112 in there and cut the lowmids where you need it.. depending on bassdrum size and tuning of the bassdrum and bassguitar. Also the precut eq takes out some of the thud that stays in even after eq ing the signal in the daw
Andrew Scheps is an mind-opener. The things he’s saying are to let go of your boundaries and do what needs to be done for the song. Don’t get me wrong: I wouldn’t use it willy-nilly instead of retakes, but would certainly advise its use to correct something that has the feeling but wavers slightly in pitch and we didn’t get better during retakes. Ok autotune isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but used sparingly works just as well as and is easier and less time-consuming than a dozen retakes for the sake of one word. I’ve done that countless time in the mix and had to lie about how I got his/her vocal to sit by telling them in a jocular manner that I have “magic fingers”. They generally express no further opinion. Whereas Autotune used as a noticeable effect and used to make people who have no talent sound like they have talent is one of the worst and most underhanded ways to exploit money from the everyday listener the entire music world has endured.
anyone know where I can find music from this band?? Can't find it anywhere...
Amen. It is very useful for audio engineers to go through the process of trying to make the kick or snare or poorly recorded guitar
sound really good with the tools other than samples, but at the end of the day, it is just another tool. Same with producing vocalists; As a producer, the more passion you can squeeze out of *that* take the better. But-- great take with a word off/out? Fix it!
Ahhh wisdom....
Andrew Scheps sounds exactly like Adam Scott
but you never see them together....
Excelent. I have no idea who disliked this. Maybe that 1%..
Trump supporters.
@@petebradt You fucking idiot
Do you need some W-40 for the chairs?
No, the squeaks make it sound "vintage" and "analog."
Never got to overheads.
I first read Andrew Schoeps, talking into a Neumann, and wondered ... lol
:-)
Funny how he suggests VERY expensive mics for certain parts of the kit, vs an AKG in the kick. Lol (I bet he's good for mid level mics on a good kit w good drummer in a proper room).
I like need to record with you I have a few guitar tracks bass tracks keyboard tracks and especially raw acoustic drums, I have a bunch of songs to record from grunge to rock to punk to blues to folky, So that's what I'm told
Great chair sound!
Just checked the price of 421's...ouch.
Still if the studio has them wouldn't you ?....I would .
Save yourself the trouble of money and editing and get Sennheiser e604.
I couldn’t care less for the e604’s. They’re okay live, but never in a studio. I’d rather use a 57 over the 604’s.
Then you have to get the drummer to give you enough room to actually put them between the tom and cymbals (and avoid stick hits). Have had really good results from old AT pro25s lately. They're budget kick mics.
So the bottom line is...have a lot of inputs and a lot of expensive microphones with a nice sounding drum kit. GOT IT!
That's just his preference.
I agree.... "So the bottom line is...have a lot of inputs and a lot of expensive microphones with a nice sounding drum kit..... " THEN replace/ enhance the performance with samples anyway.
OK.... His track record speaks for itself. As he said... he is under pressure from such high profile clients so he is almost forced to work that way, but it's totally possible to get great sounds with a handful of reasonably priced mics and a great room. (great song, players, instruments, arrangement etc goes without saying)
ideally... Doesn't mean you can't get great results outside that scenario but good shit sounds better quicker. It's still all about source though. This would be my order of importance regarding components from source to tape:
Quality Player >
Quality Drum Tuning >
Quality Kit >
Quality Mic Placement >
Quality Recording Engineer >
Quality Mix Engineer >
Quality mic's >
Quality Samples >
Quality Room >
Quality Pre's >
Quality Converters
Samples shouldn't be so high in the list but with a good part, played well on a good well tuned kit tracked by a knowledgeable engineer mixed by a good mix engineer will still sound great and addition of some samples to beef up the Kick & Snare you won't notice pre amp/converter/room quality. It only comes after Mic's cause u still need good OH & Room Mics for the samples to sit well with the kit.
I was searching for drums recorded in a barn. How did I end up here? Lol
Nope, the point is KEEP an open mind, have a ton of options, use what you have as best as you can... and for me total of the biggest point is “what is coming out of the speaker is what matters”, NOT all of the technical bs you’re trying to rant against.
So true, lay people couldn't care less about audio quality and play music as background for a pool party for example, they don't listen to music in an acoustically tuned room critically
Andrews voice is clipping?
Cool post! There is something in the vibe lost when layering samples over live drums, on the other hand you get your preferred tone. It's a trade off. Vocals, yeah just tune them and don't even tell the singer..too many takes kills the vibe anyway.
what if you use vibey samples?
love his philosophy here too. 99.9% of listeners neither know nor care..... not that anyone is listening to what i've mixed 😆
8068 Ch 02 Input for the Podcast Mic. Got it.
I'm down! Thanksforsocializing.com
squeaky chair in the studio check!😁
Ages spent in post getting just the right amount of squeaks :D Thanks for watching, hope you didn't mind it too much..
@@RecordProduction did not mind at all made me feel at home in my own studio 😂
Buy a top of the line electronic Drum Set - download expansion packs that model top studio drum sounds.....and forget the whole studio thing.
or just skip the first part and go right to the "...forget the whole studio thing."
what a great bit a total pro like andrew says doesnt matter if its robert plant or justin bieber no one can sing right through perfect just cant do it wel maybe barbara striesand or celine dionne but the average rock pop singer not a chance if you have to correct a few sharps and flats big deal ....fix em and shut up
Russel Cottier: some feedback, take it for whatever it's worth: consider staying quiet when your interviewee is talking, the continuous stream of monosyllabic "mm yeah ok sure ahh" in the middle of their sentences and thoughts is both distracting and unnecessary. It doesn't signal that you're listening, in fact it signals the opposite, and I don't get the sense that people like Andrew need your agreement or acknowledgement on every little detail of what they're saying.
Also, looking down at your notebook when they're talking to you is bad form, and again signals that they don't have your full attention.
For the record, I am nobody of any import, just a student of human interaction.
Did you pay to watch this video? This is a young recording guy interviewing one of the world best producers ... maybe Russel was nervous? These guys make this video information available to us in a good way and u wanna tell "don't look at your notebook" ...
Your quite right - your nobody of import ... you are 1 of these little mum's nerdy boys who sits behind the keyboard/screen, cant think of anything better to do with yr life than criticize other people, u will never be doing something cool like these guys in the video.
Thanks to Mike and Russell for the video, I found it real helpful to watch and learn from.
Can't think of anything better to do with his life other than make some of the best audio gear known to man lol (along with one of the best audio podcasts out there)... But I get both of your points :)
Does anyone really need 16 mics on drums?
Only when not using 20.
His point was that he doesn't want to delay creativity, so having 2 mics on the kick means capturing it in different ways so the drummer can play fast or slow, hard or soft, it will matter less if you have overly mic-ed the kit. He doesn't want to say "oh that's great, but let me move the kick mic if you are going to play it like that". Same for snares with 3 mics, extra OH, 2 rooms, etc.
The point is not whether you need them all, but rather to have the choice of them later on.
Brian Cox has arrived.
What's jablin jables! It is I jablinski.
One that I would trade my Hou$e For :)
So many haters.
This isn't a video about how to get a slamming drum sound in your crappy home wanna be "studio".
This IS a video about how HE gets HIS drum sound.
Hen works on a different level than you - in a world you will probably never experience.
Yes - massive desk - yes - huge expensive mic locker - yes - tons of experience doing that very thing for several decades.
Some people recording at "home studios" are simply afraid to spend money on mics and gear and always seem to speak poorly of those who do have the resources to produce professional audio for rich clients with large budgets.
To compete at the level he works at every day he must have loads of inputs - loads of expensive mics - and loads of experience to go with it.
Put some oil on your damn chair. Jeez. You're meant to be sound engineers and you let a squeaky chair sneak its way into the mix.
I think theres a plugin for that ;-) lol... fixit in post right? ha
facebook.com/davidmaximmicicmusic/videos/1208368149200090/
Jim Siou haha that's amazing, cool and funny!
HA !!
I did a series of concerts once with the jazz pianist; we would get to these beautiful ballads with intimate moments and the fucking chair “squeak squeak”.
Since I was drumming I was pretty much just watching the audience, ans I’d see people roll their eyes, laughing, etc. When I mentioned it he goes”you drum, I’ll do the rest”. Opposite mentality from Andrew
Dude, so much low rumble coming from your mic.
What do you think he should do about it?
I hate auto-tune.
I mean, a hit or two isn't a big deal... but if my snare isn't coming thru, I'd prefer to explore other options than slapping a sample over my track... like dubbing a hand clap or a cowbell or something. A fake snare sample would only be acceptable to me as an absolute last resort.
How about a real drum sample then? :) Think about it. It's only a recorded drum, just like the ones you were recording in the first place. And how real is that? You place mics a certain way, use compression, EQ, reverb etc. It's already fake.
I get it. It often doesn't have the same expressiveness. But on the other hand, it might express the song better overall.
Meh... you're not completely off base... but there are varying degrees of "fake", and there are lines that get crossed. I'm no purist by any stretch. However, crossing the line to samples is a degree past mic placement and processing.
Like I said before, as an artist I'm okay with a mix engineer who wants to put his foot across the line and "enhance" a beat or two with a sample (whether it's my own actual hit that I recorded or if it's a fake hit, makes no difference in this example). But if a mix engineer wants to use sample replacements throughout a track (as they often do these days) then I would probably be insulted, as an artist. I wouldn't accept it.
That's just me. I understand samples have their place. I just think they become a crutch too often... and the real losers are the artists who have to hear a sample instead of their snare and kick drums every time they listen to their own music... all because some douchebag engineer thought it's enhanced "the song".
Last time I produced, I was using the Glyn Johns micing technique (My favorite) and I had our drummer record play me some samples, so it was him, on his kit, not something I bought from Avid or something. I used them in a few places and our drummer was glad I had samples of him, and not some other gomer. He could never tell when I used a sample.
People have to remember. listeners don't give a shit, as long as they like it. All the sounds we make - our vocal technique, guitar technique, piano, etc - that's all for we, the musicians. The songs and performances are for the audience but the details are strictly for the musicians. I've NEVER had a non-guitarist rave about guitar tone. Hell, even singers don't care about the tones the musicians are getting. My tone is for ME, and if a listener likes it, that's great, but I do not care if they like it. 99.9 percent of listeners never even notice.
"People have to remember. listeners don't give a shit"
That's such an abhorrent generalization... very jaded and overly negative... of course there are many listeners who pay attention to cool tones. Selling music listeners short never got anyone anywhere.
Are you out of your mind? Go watch the movie "Before the Music Dies," and get back to me.
If 3/4th of the way you start thinking about dinner, maybe you're not really fit to be a true musician. Music is passion, it's art. It's practice, concentration, pushing yourself constantly to further heights of your craft... not about thinking dinner and losing focus in the studio.
If you can't concentrate on what you're doing, you need to be a better musician
Huh... not Tom hanks at all.
The puzzled pet holly retire because grey externally squeak pro a smoggy rowboat. womanly, ill-fated crown