Really looking forward to the follow up video on these motors. Always looking for more power! KO motor so sexy hopefully it lives up to its price tag and looks!
you hit the nail on the head about heat transfer and most of the time it has a lot to do with quality of materials. because these motors are not vented due to being waterproof forces all the heat to dissipate through convection and because the motor has minimal radiant fins its not allowing speed to counter demand. a motor need to layer its alloys that are non corrosive yet designed to make heat travel to case. number of windings and gauge of windings and material of windings greatly determines power speed efficiency and even longevity of life. motors that have a larger circumference tend to be more torque because these motors can negate the rolling resistance more wider motors tend to be more advantageous in speed if it were me i think i would round the spindle with an impeller made to blower into heat pipe that coils in case kind of like a radiator CPU cooler
Hi, read several times (web…) that the QS is presently limited to 8kw, if the controllers were set to deliver 10kw for both motors that might be the reason of the lack of torque at higher rpm on the QS Pls keep posting great content, highly appreciated😉
Yes it does say that but the stock motor says it’s limited to the same thing and we’ve pulled 20kW+ with no issues. It’s a matter of getting the tune sorted but we are not sure yet if the controller has the advanced functionality needed to straighten things out and pull more power. Thanks for the support!
Glad you liked it! I don't have any readings for you specifically but I'll give you a solid method for reading things that are on a higher technical level than what you could typically find. During our years in college we were on an electric formula team, where we had to design formula style EVs from the ground up. Although these were student led projects that cars were no joke. I believe some even hold 0-60 world records and are faster to 60mph than an F1 Car. This general organization is reffered to as FSAE - Formula Society of Automotive Engineers. Luckily, many of the students publish their findings for the sections of the car they worked on. You can google something to the effect of "FSAE High Voltage Battery" and find countless thesis papers and capstone projects with some highly technical information. You can also search using key words like motor, suspension, etc.
I like some of your points but there are many ways a motor can be changed to reduce heat, torque and speed. I rewind my motors to STAR BIFILER configuration to reduce heat and increase efficiency. This drops amp draw by 3 times but only reduces rpm by 1.5 times. Look up bifilar winding
kv on the SR and QS are differents that's why the torque curve is different. The QS is probably lower kv and give more torque per amp due to the winding config
We have the QS and the stock motor so we actually have both :) the meaning was to help inform people about general motor info and upgraded motors available for the SurRon. Testing will follow as mentioned.
Thanks for the video I just upgraded battery and controller and now I know why people say the only thing that’s bottlenecking the sur Ron is the motor.
Good stuff man, looking forward to more testing and comparison of the different motors. Also... ya'll need a bigger white board of knowledge 🤣 Love picture time!
The stock SR motor is a magnet on rotor design. I believe the KO motor is IPM (internal permanent magnet). Is the QS motor IPM? If so this is why you are seeing the drop off and difference in characteristics.
The QS is similar to the SurRon but is SPM rather than the bolted/glued style that the SurRon is. Also different than the IPM of the KO as you mentioned.
Many aftermarket parts for to go fast on the Sur Ron but no one make a proper brakes for the Sur Ron there just mtb brakes the pads are way to thin wear down to fast . Is there anyone that making brake calipers and thicker pads ?
Thanks EMB! It's a shame that KO released the original MX which was a complete market miss and the tunes have had significant issues as well. Lost my confidence, not to mention Christopher and Benjamin have the emotional intelligence of adolescents.
Yeah I have hope that they’ll get it sorted but the constant back and fourth with customers on Facebook and what not could be skipped. I understand the feeling of wanting to defend things people say about your company but gotta draw the line somewhere.
Pretty upset with this, as someone who purchased the controller. The tunes are sorted now, but it was not as fun on rides with the on/off throttle behavior, lack of regeneration, and the LAG...
@@jayjay6782 The issues with the tunes were all with the stock motor, because they did testing with their motor only. I still have issues with my throttle hanging, but it is nothing compared to what it used to be.
Searching for sur ron qs motors yields lots of apparent model numbers. Care to share these from the ones that fit? Cheers on the disorganized video. Sounded like most of the college lectures I enjoyed.
Yeah not a whole lot of thought on this one, had a lot on my mind and we hadn’t posted in over a month - apologies. The model is the 165 but I didn’t mention it because they don’t post it on their site for some reason. As mentioned, we will do a whole video on it!
@@emotobros Hmm strange ... over 280A it overshoots . So 431A you are the frst on QS 165 if it is true. Post a Logging . Would be interresting for many nerds here
You’re saying no one has gone over 280 phase amps? That’s pretty low…just shoot me an email and I’ll send the logs of the QS vs the Stock motor. I think technically it hit 428 or something, close enough :)
Now that we have better motor and controlor the really limiting factor are the battery and how much it can give ! But with all this power I'm concerned about range and battery life !
Yep! That’s a huge problem along with the wiring that go from the battery to the controller and then to the motor. It’s barely rated for stock power. Throw 6x stock power at it and you start to see a lot of heat related failures even if your battery can handle it. As you mention, the range detriment is significant as well.
@@jimlahey5354 oh you want to go there! well ok i still do engineering and a day job of rocket propulsion research and development and like to tinker with my tesla im only a hobbyist in motors but i had to take several courses in motors and electronics. suggesting im on drugs why? because you dont like my avatar? why are you being a triggered snowflake?
The BAC4000 has a peak current output of 28.8kW but there is far more too the equation than just what the controller is capable of. I haven’t even seen anyone with any controller getting the KO to pull more than 20kW or so.
@@KMKZ-oq6tb easy there bud. I only go by what I was told when i installed my upgraded battery on the 4000 by ebmx. I obviously wanted to max it out and they told me above. I obviously don’t build flux capacitors like you - I just ride them.
Honestly there's a way to solve the problem with the overheating and that's liquid cooling you can make your own a small little tiny pump that runs on 12 volts or whatever amount of volts and a clear hose wrapped around the motor secure it to it however you think is the best way and circulate that coolant through it should absorb the heat really good small tubing is the key because you can put more liquid to the motor fat tubing is going to have only so much of the tubing touching the motor carrying the heat away with the liquid small tubing is the key quarter inch or smaller you can probably just use regular old water and you could probably figure out a way to do this with no problem I know I could if I had an actual bike but I'm homeless and I need one and I can't get one cuz I'm homeless you see the cycle
To liquid cool a motor, the motor itself needs cooling passages in the metal housing. Improved airflow is the easiest solution for sure. It has been done before by one of our sponsored riders and works well, but it's quite the undertaking!
Hi there! This is KEMIMOTO, one of the top 5 sellers in the auto & motor accessories field.We looked through your UA-cam channel and realized that you make contents on Sur Ron. The videos are so awesome! Now we’re looking for some professional UA-camrs to review some of our products. Would you have interest in working together? Could you please provide your contact info so that we could send you more specifics? Looking forward to hearing from you!🙌
That was the goal! Not meant to be super guided or anything. Sometimes we like to just sit down and talk without much planned. Appreciate the support 🤘🏽
@@emotobros I thought it was easy to hear you guys and was a good just chat about motor options etc. Would be cool to see a more detailed video later on once more usable data is collected etc but great to see you guys talk about the options
Really looking forward to the follow up video on these motors. Always looking for more power! KO motor so sexy hopefully it lives up to its price tag and looks!
you hit the nail on the head about heat transfer and most of the time it has a lot to do with quality of materials.
because these motors are not vented due to being waterproof forces all the heat to dissipate through convection and because the motor has minimal radiant fins its not allowing speed to counter demand.
a motor need to layer its alloys that are non corrosive yet designed to make heat travel to case.
number of windings and gauge of windings and material of windings greatly determines power speed efficiency and even longevity of life.
motors that have a larger circumference tend to be more torque because these motors can negate the rolling resistance more
wider motors tend to be more advantageous in speed
if it were me i think i would round the spindle with an impeller made to blower into heat pipe that coils in case kind of like a radiator CPU cooler
Hi, read several times (web…) that the QS is presently limited to 8kw, if the controllers were set to deliver 10kw for both motors that might be the reason of the lack of torque at higher rpm on the QS
Pls keep posting great content, highly appreciated😉
Yes it does say that but the stock motor says it’s limited to the same thing and we’ve pulled 20kW+ with no issues. It’s a matter of getting the tune sorted but we are not sure yet if the controller has the advanced functionality needed to straighten things out and pull more power. Thanks for the support!
Hey guys, really loved the technical breakdowns. Any recommended reading for electric vehicles or surrons specifically?
Glad you liked it! I don't have any readings for you specifically but I'll give you a solid method for reading things that are on a higher technical level than what you could typically find.
During our years in college we were on an electric formula team, where we had to design formula style EVs from the ground up. Although these were student led projects that cars were no joke. I believe some even hold 0-60 world records and are faster to 60mph than an F1 Car. This general organization is reffered to as FSAE - Formula Society of Automotive Engineers.
Luckily, many of the students publish their findings for the sections of the car they worked on. You can google something to the effect of "FSAE High Voltage Battery" and find countless thesis papers and capstone projects with some highly technical information. You can also search using key words like motor, suspension, etc.
You guys never cease to amaze me
Our biggest fan ❤️
Great job as always.
I like some of your points but there are many ways a motor can be changed to reduce heat, torque and speed. I rewind my motors to STAR BIFILER configuration to reduce heat and increase efficiency. This drops amp draw by 3 times but only reduces rpm by 1.5 times. Look up bifilar winding
60 Mph for how long and how was the heat ? Thanks If it can reach 55 MPH, I can register it as a moped where I live...
kv on the SR and QS are differents that's why the torque curve is different. The QS is probably lower kv and give more torque per amp due to the winding config
We have the QS and the stock motor so we actually have both :) the meaning was to help inform people about general motor info and upgraded motors available for the SurRon. Testing will follow as mentioned.
Definitely seems that way, it’s just odd that the QS spins as fast if not faster at the same voltage and power.
Thanks for the video I just upgraded battery and controller and now I know why people say the only thing that’s bottlenecking the sur Ron is the motor.
Good stuff man, looking forward to more testing and comparison of the different motors.
Also... ya'll need a bigger white board of knowledge 🤣 Love picture time!
Thinking of upgrading to a 24”x24”. We’ll see if it’s in the budget 😅
The stock SR motor is a magnet on rotor design. I believe the KO motor is IPM (internal permanent magnet). Is the QS motor IPM? If so this is why you are seeing the drop off and difference in characteristics.
The QS is similar to the SurRon but is SPM rather than the bolted/glued style that the SurRon is. Also different than the IPM of the KO as you mentioned.
Many aftermarket parts for to go fast on the Sur Ron but no one make a proper brakes for the Sur Ron there just mtb brakes the pads are way to thin wear down to fast .
Is there anyone that making brake calipers and thicker pads ?
Thanks EMB!
It's a shame that KO released the original MX which was a complete market miss and the tunes have had significant issues as well. Lost my confidence, not to mention Christopher and Benjamin have the emotional intelligence of adolescents.
Yeah I have hope that they’ll get it sorted but the constant back and fourth with customers on Facebook and what not could be skipped. I understand the feeling of wanting to defend things people say about your company but gotta draw the line somewhere.
Yeah I don't like how they gave us an incomplete product. Forced the consumer to do the RnD and are making us pay for it
@@mre741 thoguht they were replacing the MX orders with RS for free? or did I hear that wrong?
Pretty upset with this, as someone who purchased the controller. The tunes are sorted now, but it was not as fun on rides with the on/off throttle behavior, lack of regeneration, and the LAG...
@@jayjay6782 The issues with the tunes were all with the stock motor, because they did testing with their motor only. I still have issues with my throttle hanging, but it is nothing compared to what it used to be.
Could you help me tune my QS 165 with the Nuc24f controller??
Can't say that I've ever used a Nuc24f. What issues are you running into?
Nice just ordered a 2022 lbx
Me aswell. Coming on Monday 😀
@@Ah85661 nice man I've got a hub drive bike hut I still can't wait mine won't be delivered up till the after the 30th but it should fly by
What ibx?
@@slaughteroce3355 surron L B X
Searching for sur ron qs motors yields lots of apparent model numbers. Care to share these from the ones that fit? Cheers on the disorganized video. Sounded like most of the college lectures I enjoyed.
Yeah not a whole lot of thought on this one, had a lot on my mind and we hadn’t posted in over a month - apologies. The model is the 165 but I didn’t mention it because they don’t post it on their site for some reason. As mentioned, we will do a whole video on it!
Electro and Co has the motor
🙊
So better cooling for sur ron Motor would be a nice upgrade :) i only ever run 9.5kw 60v no heat issues im in Australia.
How many phase amps at 20s till jet from the qs ?
If you’re asking what the max phase amperage rating of the motor is I believe that is 600. Had no issues maxing out a 4000 testing it.
@@emotobros Hmm strange ... over 280A it overshoots . So 431A you are the frst on QS 165 if it is true. Post a Logging . Would be interresting for many nerds here
You’re saying no one has gone over 280 phase amps? That’s pretty low…just shoot me an email and I’ll send the logs of the QS vs the Stock motor. I think technically it hit 428 or something, close enough :)
@@emotobros ok do it tomorrow 👍 ... on paper he can 500a in real not really 🤣 but till now i only spend 5h on the setup
Now that we have better motor and controlor the really limiting factor are the battery and how much it can give ! But with all this power I'm concerned about range and battery life !
Yep! That’s a huge problem along with the wiring that go from the battery to the controller and then to the motor. It’s barely rated for stock power. Throw 6x stock power at it and you start to see a lot of heat related failures even if your battery can handle it.
As you mention, the range detriment is significant as well.
It would be interesting to know the winding resistance for two motors with the same KV rating.
depends on length gauge and material but if it was 2 of same motors the resistance is constant among all
maybe you mean field weakening?
@@kevinalmeida7159 lay off the drugs bro
@@jimlahey5354 oh you want to go there! well ok i still do engineering and a day job of rocket propulsion research and development and like to tinker with my tesla im only a hobbyist in motors but i had to take several courses in motors and electronics.
suggesting im on drugs why? because you dont like my avatar? why are you being a triggered snowflake?
Can the BAC4000 handle anywhere near the 35kW that the KO claims it can handle?
I have ebmx bac 4000 w 60v ebmx battery - tops out at 12kw tune. Any more power u need bac8000
The BAC4000 has a peak current output of 28.8kW but there is far more too the equation than just what the controller is capable of. I haven’t even seen anyone with any controller getting the KO to pull more than 20kW or so.
@@KMKZ-oq6tb easy there bud. I only go by what I was told when i installed my upgraded battery on the 4000 by ebmx. I obviously wanted to max it out and they told me above. I obviously don’t build flux capacitors like you - I just ride them.
Honestly there's a way to solve the problem with the overheating and that's liquid cooling you can make your own a small little tiny pump that runs on 12 volts or whatever amount of volts and a clear hose wrapped around the motor secure it to it however you think is the best way and circulate that coolant through it should absorb the heat really good small tubing is the key because you can put more liquid to the motor fat tubing is going to have only so much of the tubing touching the motor carrying the heat away with the liquid small tubing is the key quarter inch or smaller you can probably just use regular old water and you could probably figure out a way to do this with no problem I know I could if I had an actual bike but I'm homeless and I need one and I can't get one cuz I'm homeless you see the cycle
To liquid cool a motor, the motor itself needs cooling passages in the metal housing. Improved airflow is the easiest solution for sure.
It has been done before by one of our sponsored riders and works well, but it's quite the undertaking!
Hi there! This is KEMIMOTO, one of the top 5 sellers in the auto & motor accessories field.We looked through your UA-cam channel and realized that you make contents on Sur Ron. The videos are so awesome! Now we’re looking for some professional UA-camrs to review some of our products. Would you have interest in working together? Could you please provide your contact info so that we could send you more specifics? Looking forward to hearing from you!🙌
Way better content than progressive e them boys talk shit
This feels a bit impromptus, I think you need a white board, and an outline for this talk.
The fan was also very loud, or whatever that was, fyi.
That was the goal! Not meant to be super guided or anything. Sometimes we like to just sit down and talk without much planned. Appreciate the support 🤘🏽
@@emotobros I thought it was easy to hear you guys and was a good just chat about motor options etc. Would be cool to see a more detailed video later on once more usable data is collected etc but great to see you guys talk about the options
I think you guys need a dyno 😉
We are most definitely on the same page 🤝🏽
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