Infrastructure is the key. The rest of the challenges are being met: energy density improvements from solid state batteries, for example, but infrastructure will be the key. As long as too much of our environment in centered around car dependency, it will slow down the growth of eBikes.
I can't help but feel, the infrastructure (decent surfaces) are already there. The thing holding it all up? Cars. The thing that keeps cars going? Governments. Excellent source of income and a great way to get people unfit and unthinking.
@@velokernow3696 you are dead on and if we don't change the culture and perception to why there are so many more benefits to bicycling than to drive a car, we are dead in the water. People that get kill on bicycles are very unlikely to get recognized as victim but instead they are often who are at fault....sorry for my long comment but this really hits me hard as a full time commuter and bicycle explorer. Thank you for indulging me...
@@Propelbikes It should indeed. That also a contrast I encountered after I moved to Belgium after growing up in The netherlands. Infrastructure for cycling and parking. Belgium is famous for road cycling sport but in means of normal transport it has a pretty long way to go. And yes that's my inner dutch speaking.
Concern over theft significantly limits my ebike use to recreation where it is never left unattended. Until ebike theft is better addressed by manufacturers and police, I will keep my cars and motorcycles and not upgrade my ebike. Thanks for the thoughtful videos.
I think this is the majority perspective currently but it's not discussed enough. I'm optimistic that we will solve this and I have some ideas I plan to share around a practical way to do it.
For starters, all the bike mfgs need do re theft deterrence is look how motorcycle mfgs handle it. Real locks (with no de-facto master key), fork locks, multi-location VIN markings (as with cars) would be a good starting-point. For a bike costing thousands, security package costing a dollar or two in huge quantities should be a no-brainer. Real value multiplier.
I never let mine out of my sight. It’s either locked at my office or locked at home. It’s replaced my car 5/6 days a week. I stop for coffee where it is securely locked with both a D-lock (Abus Granit) and an alarmed folding lock (Abus). I’m waiting for the Hiplok D1000 which is a serious deterrent to thrives with angle grinders. Quotes to insure my bike have been around €750 a year.
This is a sad reality for most desirable bikes. Bosch (for a too large a cost) have implemented a motor lock connected to the removable display. Specialized have also implemented a similar thing using your phone with their new models without extra cost.
@@richardharker2775 yep. I have Nyon display. Have the lock feature but my bike is worth over €10k so I’m not leaving it in plain sight to temp any potential thief.
Just made the switch to e-bike commuting here in Portland, OR. A few comments, mainly centered around bike-use-as-a-utility: Battery-fire, I hope the industry quits allowing junk batteries. A few fires on the light Rail in any major city, and no ebikes will be allowed there; and that kind of kills a lot of transportation options. Whatever you do as a buyer, make sure you bike has Samsung LG, Panasonic or other quality cells and is from a reputable manufacturer. And to mention house safety: In-house charging is quite common as batteries like room-temperature. but this is still a risky proposition to bring charger and battery in the house. When you are finished riding on a hot day, let your battery/bike cool down for 15 minutes after turning it off - just to be safe. Its a bit paranoid, but if you can do that, we'll keep things safer. While waiting for the train, turn it off sooner rather than later. Theft is a big issue too but as price comes down, theft becomes less of an issue. I have a used Ride1Up which is around $1000-$1500. this is substantially less worry free than those super-pricey reise-muller, trek or other "gourmet" ebikes. We need companies like Rad, Ride1Up, Propella, Aventon to take this ebike movement mainstream. My downtown workplace is installing a better bike locker system so hopefully this theft issue will continue to get better. Range is a big one for me too. I can and sometimes do 8 errands in one day and use up my 30-mile battery range, riding all over the place. We desperately need 2-3x range battery technology. Maintenance and weatherproofing: We get rained on a lot here in PDX-town. A better sealed system bike would be nice. Toyota is solving this with more of a moped-like thing, called I-Road. That I think is the end-game for much of the ebike movement. Maintenance: Bikes in general are a futzing nightmare. Every few hundred miles, something needs to be adjusted, tweaked, replaced. When ebiking, this is amplified due to the higher miles you can accumulate in a month. We need better quality suspension, puncture resistant tires, less greasy/dirty chains, and reliable brakes which don't wear out or need farting-around with every few hundred miles. This stuff needs to run all with good tolerances for at least 1000 miles, preferably 2500 miles. Environment: the oil/lube on many chains contains PTFE-like forever chemicals, which naturally contaminate the water system. I switched to "green oil cycle chain lube", and hope you all do too! It seems to be on of the only quality eco-chain-lubes. I don't get paid by them! There is probably more, but ill cut-out now. Happy e-biking!
You couldn't get me to go into Portland metro area, much less ride a bike there for love nor money. I would feel safer walking through the main bazzar in Kabul wearing a t-shirt of the Prophet (Mohammed) eating pork ribs.
The limiting factors I've seen everywhere internationally are always, always storage/theft and infrastructure. AKA, things the market can't really respond to. I'd really like to see LiFePo4 become the standard for vehicular batteries from a safety standpoint. Yes they're slightly bulkier but they're also not constant fire hazards when physically compromised. The trends I do see are more IoT everything that's not needed/helpful (high end bosh displays, apps for everything, etc) instead of focusing on theft deterrence/recovery, and a slight trend towards unnecessary proprietary stuff (cockpit especially).
The new Bosch display is a great theft deterrent due to being uniquely integrated with one motor and the ability to render the motor unusable for theives.
I've counted at least 10 E-bike brands that use the Reention Dorado battery system, so there is already some amount of standardization going on. But a universal standard would be ideal!
The challenge is likely none of them meet the current safety standard in NY. This standard will also likely transfer to the rest of the US. It would be a good opportunity for someone to figure that out.
I have been without a car for 6 years. Up until March of this year, I used a couple of bikes for transport depending upon my needs. I got an electric cargo bike in March and it is the BEST. I have been suggesting to friends that they should do the same but every one of them tell me it is too dangerous (in fairness, they said that before too). I had lunch with a friend yesterday, She has a 20 month old and there is another baby on the way. She and her partner live in the suburbs. Her little guy lost his mind when he saw my bike. He didn't know it was mine - he just saw it locked up and started yelling "BIKE, BIKE, BIKE!". We sat him on the rack on the back and he was so happy even just sitting still with his mum holding onto him. When my bike arrived, I suggested that she get a cargo bike to ride around her neighbourhood, showing her all of the cool add-ons that are available for kids but she is convinced that they are better to drive around in an SUV. We need better bike infrastructure.
Oh, my GSD is the absolute star of school pickup. One time I was dropping something off a a nearby church. The little kids at the daycare came running to the fence beside where I had locked her and were all lined up to ask questions.
@@Propelbikes I am lucky. It feels very light to be without a car. I will never own a car again. I grew up in western Canada and used transit, bikes, taxis, and a skateboard. Once I got the to mountain west, I acquiesced and got a car. I left it parked for months so let it go. I am an avid skier but have adapted to the bus and hitch-hiking. I always have beer and gas money so I am a good passenger.
Glad you mentioned recumbents. Whereas a traditional two-wheel recumbent is considered a niche, harder-to-start-on-a-hill bike, and with limited appeal, recumbent trikes actually represent a fantastic accessibility option for older riders and riders who have a disability. Even the recumbent bike manufacturers have recognized that trikes are where the market is going. The availability of recumbent trikes locally is still terrible in most places, so many people are either not aware they exist or are reluctant to buy them sight unseen. Just as cargo bikes are game changers, trikes are such a different riding experience that they may represent a sleeping giant.
There need to be a standards setting for ebikes, so batteries, parts, etc are high quality, driven by user experience (and not marketing), and fit for use & repair.
@@itsPenguinBoy Yes, interoperability is key. Non standardisation in bike tech is maddening. 50 years ago, most bike fittings like bottom brackets, stems, seat posts etc were standard. It's now all proprietary, hellish expensive, and each variation needs its own specialised tools. I can understand the need to accommodate design differences, but it's got out of hand. With battery tech, chargers and connections should be standardised at a bare minimum.
Electric bike company bikes do a good job with ease of repair, and they’re very modular with everything easy to fix and replace. After having an Apollo Explore electric scooter that was utter hell to replace the tire (it got flats all the time, too), my electric bike company model C is a breath of fresh air in ease of repair.
Diy ebike market has had that covered for ages , the chinese battery supplier will happily tell you how to replace bms or individual fail cell after warranty , or send you a new charger , as for ewheels , just a bit more fiddly but hub motors are robust and fixable with some testing equipment .
I’ve been using ebikes as my main form of transport for over 2 years now. When I started I was the ‘odd one’ in town and got stared at, now there are many and we even have a specialist shop with a good range and support, it is growing fast.
Personally, I would like to see more commuter oriented bike shops with big service departments that sell good quality analogue bikes next to ebikes. A proportion of the market that is shorter distance, less frequent urban utility don’t need an ebike. This brings consumer cost down and can reduce some complications in serving(which also reduces cost). Just a thought.
I agree tbqh. a lot of these shops are limiting their potential addressable market by only focusing on racing bikes. I would even argue that at least in NYC the commuting business is more sustainable and could also finance the sporty side of the business in the current environment.
The big thing is redesign our city streets. Denmark started redesign in 1970. Instead of car friendly, the streets are bicycle friendly. Bicycles take the short route and cars take a much longer route. People are healthier and the cost for health care has dropped a great deal.
Glad to hear all you say. Security is a big one. I'd love to see an optional built in tracker. Perhaps lock points that clamp to ground set bike racks, and an integrated alarm. Fear of theft/damage is such a big deterrent to riding a bike usefully, do you think it's more off putting than safe infrastructure? Glad you're going to the bike show, I'm travelling Germany, nearly booked to go, but decided I'd go to the Netherlands, sit at a roadside cafe and watch all the great bikes go by. I've noticed the older generation ( to which I belong 😁 ) looking totally chic and elegant riding very upright step through ebikes, moving in foursomes like a dressage team, they really know how to make group riding look effortless. I see women riding in long flowing dresses, I tried it at Lake Annecy on my emtb, got it caught up in the brake disc, dragged me to a sudden halt, passers by had to rip me free..😂 Have a great show, love to see some awesome belt drives cargos and urban, I keep damaging my dérailleur during transit. 😁
@Robert Mudry 😕 yes I see what you mean. Perhaps cycling parking needs a floor pan with a big steel lock, and you just take your own heavy duty padlock? At least we wouldn't have to carry a heavy chain everywhere. I've tried to start a bike crèche in our city, for all types of bike, but these things take time and money.
I think you broke some kind of speed record with the number of issues and different topics you got through! I was breathless well before the end. 😆 I’m sure the next instalment in 2024 will be VERY interesting, looking back at everything you’ve raised in this video. Well done. 👊🏽
Bike sharing got me into cycling this year, so that for me is the big trend. The cost for e-bikes is a little high if I just plan to joyride(Bay Wheels is 20 cents a minute with a subscription, but a Muni fare is $2.50, so it becomes cheaper at 13 minutes) but I can usually find a pedal bike, and that works better for me since I'm often walking the bike through difficult traffic areas - it's still faster than walking, but slower than it could be. The bike share, bike parking and other rental micromobility companies are all positioned to lobby cities for infrastructure. It helps ridership and lowers insurance costs to have protected networks, and I've seen some examples of these companies sponsoring intersection changes(Spin, for one, has put out some promotional videos of it). I'm happy to support those companies with some cash since their growth acts as a public good. Battery chemistry is also continuing to be exciting. Sodium ion is on the path to commercialization and I've seen some very optimistic things about it.
In Denmark we have speed limits for this. eBikes kan not be assisted to more than 25 KM/H but bikes that are assisted to faster speed are speedpedelecs and have a licenceno and higher insurance like a moped.
Closing trails? Get rid of throttle bikes. They are dangerous to me on my class 1 bike, and when I am a pedestrian. 30 mph on a “bike path” with walkers is insane! We need clear indication of bike type. If we don’t straighten this out the government will restrict the products.
Looking forward to your overview of the Euro Bike Show. You remain so enthusiastic about the trends in e-bikes in general and your logical approach to the many new changes in technology as the world increases its acceptance of this form of transportation. As you pointed out about the Porsche, etc entries to the field, it will be interesting to see how the stable of Riese Muller, Moustache, Bulls, etc companies hold their place or get eaten up by the big contender’s . Take care and enjoy the Euro Show.
Thanks! It's been a long time in the making, but I think we are pretty much where we want to be with it now. I'm excited to start using it more to capture the biking experience more.
I think the biggest threat to e-biking is really policy. People misunderstanding what constitutes an e-bike versus a moped, motorcycle, and the resultant banning of e-bikes from trails etc.
I’ve been a fan of your channel, company and you for a while now. As I’m starting to get serious about purchasing an e-bike, I like what you and your company stand for. When the time comes, although the cost will be higher, I look forward to getting a high quality bike from your shop. NYC made a lot of changes these past couple of years and I can’t wait to be an e-bike commuter.
I think the fact that we have very strict rules for ebikes here in norway (no throttle over 6km/h, pedal assist up to 25km/h) helps a lot. Trying to get local authorities to differentiate between the different classes of ebike instead of just outright banning all of'em outright seems like it'd be a battle
Absolutely love this. I've been commuting in London for 12 years now. Basically since I moved here. As I'm getting older I need a little help so can see myself purchasing an ebike in at least the next year. Watching this has made me feel really excited to see what's coming 🙂
COVID drew my attention to ebikes. I wanted to get out and ride some great bike trails near my home during lockdown and discovered a great way to get a good workout outdoors. SInce my initial purchase in Jan 2020, I've added ebikes for my wife, other family members as well as inspiring quite a few friends to buy them. There are many areas of concern based upon safety and use regulations (certainly some are needed) but it is the freedom to hop on and go fast and far that keeps me in the saddle riding +/- 200 miles per week for both transportation/recreation and physical fitness purposes. This has been a tremendous benefit to me health wise (I'm 71) and as I see more and more ebikes on the roads and trails, it becomes obvious that without the establishment of stricter operational rules and real enforcement, there will be more and more restrictions of their use. I hate that this is inevitable but common sense and situational awareness seem to be all to rare these days. With so many affordable ebikes flooding the market, things will only get worse and my new found joy of biking outdoors will be gone. As is usual, a few bad actors can ruin it for everyone else.
Whenever I watch those lovely videos of Dutch people cycling to some place on the excellent Dutch bike infrastructure, there always seems to be a moment when a person on a low speed, petrolatum powered Vespa looking scooter passes the cyclist. Dutch bike infrastructure isn't just for cycling, so they have theoretically figured out how to handle higher speed vehicles in bike spaces. I'd love to know more about how that works.
It’s a bit of a contentious topic. When we first visited in 2019 this came up and we learned that there was some legislation to push scooters out of the bike paths, but it seems that is just in Amsterdam. In NYC this is a big challenge we are currently dealing with. Most of the scooters in NYC are unregistered and they are often getting impounded lately. Unfortunately the department of consumer affairs doesn’t seem to be addressing it at the level of sale and I’m not sure if consumers are aware they are purchasing devices that need to be registered.
@@Propelbikes Interesting. I wonder what those advocating for the ban are motivated by. Is it a speed concern? Noise (those little engines seem to punch above their weight in the decibel category?) Emissions? A general "That's not a bicycle!" attitude that is based on gut feeling and doesn't have much data to cite? I'm of the camp that thinks infrastructure should be based on vehicle size and speed. If it fits in a bike lane and cannot go over 25 mph, then the bike lane is where it should be. Mixed use paths should have lower speeds and limits on size. Sidewalks she be reserved for pedestrians and those using mobility aids. My little set of standards fails on a lot of details. I don't particularly want to breathe engine fumes. The 25 mph rule is in conflict with Class 3 bikes. Sometimes I ride on the sidewalk when infrastructure fails me. In fact, some of my local "bike paths" contain sections that are sidewalks with signs permitting bikes. We will probably never find an ideal solution.
@@Propelbikes scooters are only allowed up on bikepaths up to 25 km/h. They are machines limited to that speed and they carry a blue license plate. Scooters that go faster usually go on the normal road and where they do align with bikepath they can only go 30 km/h. A lot of ebikes also easily get up to this speed. Theres so many ebikes in this country. Im not a fan tbh. The speed is too high. I would favor e-bikes only as a supplement to normal biking. Too many 60-70 year old here go way too fast. Accidents are on the rise.
@@strikeformatik Gotta say, a complaint about the 60-70 year olds going too fast is a novelty. I'm used to hearing complaints about the youths, what with their jazz music and avocado toast. 😁 Speed limits in the US are higher just in general. The *reduced* speed for traffic in front of my eight year old's school is 40 mph/64 kmh. We also mandate helmets for minors and encourage them for adults. I average about 12 mph/19kmh when riding my e-bike with my kid on the back, and non-assisted cyclists blow past me all the time. The special license plate requirement is an interesting detail. I'm not typically a supporter of bike licensing schemes, but perhaps that's a reasonable compromise for Class 3 bikes. I don't know. It's something I'll think about.
It’s so great to have this kind of content highlighting the 5% of the bike industry that isn’t stuck in the past or focusing on lightweight components and aerodynamics that don’t matter to 99% of people. Looking forward to sport cycling becoming a tiny little niche relative to what we want.
@@TamarMebonia No it sucks in the UK as well. Secure parking is critical. People won’t buy good quality bikes built to last, made in the most sustainable way if they don’t feel safe leaving it anywhere. But for the time being, get a Brompton or Brompton knock-off would be my recommendation. Reasonably easy to get up the stairs and you don’t have to leave it anywhere. It’s not perfect but it’s what I’d do if living in a city. Otherwise I ride my Dutch bike which I’m relatively ok with leaving outside. Would never leave my Riese & Muller anywhere though. Only ride it on leisure rides where it never leaves my sight. When I was talking about lightweight components, I’m not talking about stuff like that new lightweight Brompton. That’s useful. I’m talking about road bikes and the most expensive components that aren’t built to last and just for ultimate racing performance.
@@TamarMebonia I really recommend the electric Tern bikes. They take up much less room to store and get in lifts while still giving a great ride experience. Expense is a problem though.....
Weight will always matter. Don't believe me? Try pedaling a 100lb bike up a very slight rise without electric power. Next turn the power up to full and lift it into the bed of your pickup truck.
I haven't used a car to commute in 6 or seven years thanks to the ebikes purchased from your Brooklyn shop. Great, informative video. I (like many who have responded ) am concerned about bike theft when meeting friends in the city for dinner or a movie; there are nearly no safe places to park. A non-bike question--what equipment did you use to film while you were speaking while you rode a bicycle?The sound and stability of the video is great. Stay well and best wishes for the future.
I'm back into biking with my ebike. At my age, I thought that part of my life was behind me. Now I can get out there and enjoy the outdoors on my bike again. I think legislators need to understand what this new product means to a growing number of voters.
those moped style "e-bikes" that have a throttle and go 30+ mph are ruining it for everybody else. these companies slap on a set of pedals on these "bikes" knowing damn well nobody actually pedals them. those things are basically motorcycles and idiots ride them on the bike paths at the beach at full speed. then they hit and injure someone and then next thing you know all e-bikes are blamed. it's very sad. many such cases. I personally think all e-bikes should require pedaling and have pedal assist motors only.
That's pretty much how it is here in europe. There is a 15mph speed limit for pedal assist and 6mph limit for throttles. I bet you wouldn't like putting up with such ridiculous limits. Americans could do the same if they wanted to, but I don't think they are that stupid. Maybe I'm wrong.
Although I agree with you on the bad riders ruining it for the rest of us, I could not manage my e-bike without my throttle. It's a heavy bike (Rad Rover 6 Plus), and getting going from a standstill, especially if going up a bit of a hill, can be challenging if you didn't plan ahead and gear down before stopping. That throttle has saved me from dropping my bike on more than one occasion.
My greatest concern is over-powered e-bikes assaulting limited-power bicycle paths. My 250W Shimano STEPS on my Hase Lepus is (to my knowledge) still the accepted norm for E-assist worldwide. We are likely going to see conflicts on a huge level from high wattage e-bikes in speeding, and in misbehavior, on bicycle paths. To me, 250W of E-assist is fine!
In Aus we have laws for public use stating the ebikes have to be assisted to 25kph only. Sadly when I commute to work I am the slowest on mainstream bike routes but at least I can whistle a happy tune whilst riding, uphill too.
Totally agree. Yesterday I got on a friend's recently purchased Chinese cheapo ebike and it was almost frightening how much crazy torque was powered to the hub drive. Even in level #1 it felt dangerous to the uninitiated. I ride a Gazelle with mid drive Bosch
The approach of some EU countries makes a lot of sense to me. 250W / 25kph e-bikes are treated like normal bikes. Anything faster needs a numberplate and cannot go in bike lanes, on towpaths, etc. But they still have advantages vs a moped, no tax, insurance MOT required so the running costs end up way lower.
I used to ride my regular bike for local errands. I have it insured and use a Kryptonite lock for the bike with a cable through the rear wheel. I felt safe enough taking it to the barbers, dry cleaners, Sprouts, Krogers, local shopping centers. Even rode to the nearest express bus center and took it in to Atlanta for work several times. There is a multi-use path very close to me, giving access to pretty much anything I need. However, no bike racks at Target, Publix, Lowes, Home Depot, optometrists, dentist, Chick-filA, Zaxby's, ... It would be a huge win if shop owners with easy bike access simply installed decent bike racks. I've taken my e-bike to a lot of these places and feel pretty safe with shops that have something to lock my e-bike to. But I wouldn't take it anywhere that doesn't at the very least have a bike rack or something suitable. I should probably start writing letters just asking for bike racks. And add my e-bike to my insurance plan. And maybe get a slightly beefier lock. And either lose a lot of weight or get a battery with more range. Or both.
Excellent synopsis. Your comments regarding battery fires is well-taken. Because of theft, I suspect most apartment dwellers store their e-bikes in their homes. A battery fire could be catastrophic. Regulation of batteries is critical.
Yeah that's an interesting point about how theft could actually amplify the threat. In China eBikes are required to be stored and charged outside so many of the products from there weren't designed for this use. 🤞for better bike parking and infrastructure along with better batteries and regulations for them. Better and safer batteries is definitely part of the path forward
@@Propelbikes Of course you would say that about Chinese ebikes as they are your competition. But it's not ebikes that are causing nearly all the fires, which you probably already know. But any opportunity to bash the competition.
Thanks for a great and thoughtful overview of the industry. Linking to the safety issues discussion I’d like to add: Braking of bike trailers. The need for brake systems on trailers that integrate with the bike’s brake. I.e. that brake/s on single- or double-wheel trailers are also activated - e.g. hydraulically or electrically - when braking the bicycle. Loaded bike trailers easily add 50-70 pounds (25-35 kg) to the bike’s combined weight. In one case on UA-cam the rider tells his trailer weigh 100 kg. Two: particularly for vacation purposes the range of ebikes is an issue. I.e., long distance travelling I believe is growing. This includes visiting more remote places where charging possibilities may be few and far between. For added flexibility - daily use vs. going on vacation - manufacturers may build in plug/s and battery combiner electronics for easy attachment of additional batteries, including non-brand specific ones - for 200 mile/300 km range. Lastly, reviews and testing of ebikes would benefit from discussion of a bike’s expected range. I am mindful of the issues related to wind, road and gradient conditions, the rider’s weight, the number of stoppages when riding etc. However, a simple test of the range achieved by the reviewer and the number of Wh consumed per mile/km will benefit prospective customers in choosing ebike’s that suit their needs.
I definitely like the idea, but executing on it is very challenging. New business models often take many years to work out the kinks, but I think their concepts are very smart and attractive to a large base.
I really like the special parking garages for ebikes, because of thefts. A really good ebike designed for longevity can be a significant investment. I hope many cities adopt this idea for bicycle parking.
When you visit Euro Bike, maybe you can find time to check out a German cargobike trend: Freie Latenräder (free cargobikes). There are organisations in 163 different citys (3 are outside of Germany and Austria) at the moment, where you can borrow one of 540 cargobikes for up to 3 days for free. The idea is to establish free cargobikes as a common good, get more people on a cargobike for the first time, give everybody the opportunity to transport stuff, or childern without a car from time to time and let them see what is possible. The concept was invented 10ish years ago im Cologne, Berlin has the most free cargobikes with around 150, Frankfurt's Main-Lastenrad de has 19 and you can just borrow them for up to 2 days, and here in Munich we have 20 cargobikes and 2 bike trailer, with at least 12 more cargobikes coming this year. If that sounds interesting and you want some contacts give us a shout. If you not only going to Frankfurt and find yourself in Bavaria drop by. We who are activ in Freie-Lastenradl de like to tell our stoy.
I don't want to be a downer because I think pedal assist has the potential to make biking for transportation possible for more people, but the other evening I was riding home at a pretty good clip and enjoying the quiet sounds around me when this e bike with really wide (off road?) tires passed my at almost twice my speed. The noise from it's tires flying passed was quite shocking... waaaarrrh. If your going that fast with big fat tires you're on a moped not a bike lol. Hopefully we can tease of out those intricacies in law similar to how they have in parts of Europe. To me, ebikes lose a lot of what I find beautiful in a bicycle... the mechanical simplicity, silently gliding under nothing but human power, financially accessible. But I'm glad for the additional accessibility pedal assist can provide those that benefit from that!
I love the fact that you are utilizing this forum to discuss bicycling and the public in regards to sustainability. You brought many great points regarding the trends, changes and the socioeconomic ad geopolitical aspects of the world and covid and how it has affect how the bicycle industry is going towards, price, distribution, availability and culture...well the culture is something that doesn't get mentioned a lot in my opinion. I used a bicycle , public transportation and car share as my modes to get around with the bicycle been the primary source of mobility...but I find that when I mention that I am a 52 year old male with a college education and no desire to own a car ever again, the looks I get is of disparity, laughter and a regard as to someone who is not a viable economic contributing member of society. My point is that bicycling in the periphery of the US, the southeast, mid west and the rural and less urban areas are not as accepted as the major cities and in some places like here in Tampa, Fl and Florida in general , bicycling it is still associated with economic inequality and less connection with the paradigm of consumerism and wasted. I wish to change that culture but it is so hard to compete with over abundance and even the bicycling industry is constantly injection the ethos of new, shiny, consume , discard and re purchase. I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject. I really enjoy your content and I only wish we would do more to change the culture and perception of bicycling in this country.
I'm curious on Propel's thoughts on non-bike e-mobility, like e-scooters, e-skate and powered mono wheels. When I look at say the Brompton Electric (so beautiful), which has the goal of 'e-transport that fits under your desk' I think that is also achieved, for a similar weight, price and range, by an Electric Unicycle (EUC). A lot of delivery riders choose scooters or EUC's because they can be brought with them when picking up or dropping off, significantly reducing the risk of theft.
I think they all have a place. I do think it depends on the intended use and the infrastructure. To replace car trips, eBikes serve a greater chance, especially when you look at cargo bikes. Many roads aren't able to accommodate these smaller wheels and I personally often don't feel so safe travelling at any decent speed because of it. Sure the experienced rider may be able to navigate, but I don't feel it's for the masses. Maybe shorter distanced, but longer distanced at higher speeds I think you need a 20" Wheel at least.
@@Propelbikes thank you for the reply - I agree on the cargo point for sure, there are long distance EUCs at the 18" size, complete with a seat - but they are beasts that are not as portable, and the price goes north of $4K. Agree on the not for the masses too, at least not yet. Really enjoy your coverage of the not-a-car space, love your videos.
Something I'd like to see more of is bike trailers for e-bikes (more robust, more utilitarian and with e-bike compatible hitching systems). I've got one kid trailer I converted to a flatbed and it's massively more useful than a cargo bike both in that I can haul more and a wider variety of things (kayak!)and in that I'm not stuck with a cargo bike that doesn't fit on standard racks, etc. when I don't want to haul anything.
I've developed arthritis, which has limited my ability to pursue long-distance travel by bike. I'd really like to see a mountain bike or road trike with a nominal range of 200 miles. At that range I could be comfortable tackling remote long-distance bike routes. There are places in the west where recharging every 60 or sometimes even every 100 miles is a shaky proposition.
How do you deal with bike storage, especially cargo types, in New York? It's tough where I live, since not many places have designated bike storage areas, and studded tires+salt don't cooperate with carpet. I basically need to have garage access to avoid bringing it up and down stairs every day.
Very insightful. A lot of moving parts coming together. Doubling the cost of fuel for transport is amplified across the supply chain. Maybe it will be more efficient to have domestic manufacturing and sourcing. Your advocacy and being the responsible ambassador for the use of this vital technology continues to be very encouraging. Keep up the great work.
I wish I would see more commentary and discussion on the issue of whether you want an e-bike that functions esstentially as an electric motorcycle or one that functions as a bicycle with some power assistance. I'm interested in the latter. I'm overweight and had a hip replacement, so I need a steo=through. One of my main objectives in riding an ebike is to improve my fitness and health. I need a bike that's light weight, because I need to be able to carry it up stairs at any time. Right now, I ride a Cannondale Neo Treadwell EQ Remoxte. I ride it all over Manhattan and sometimes take it on the train to NJ or Westchester. It has a low power, low-range hub motor/battery. I'd like to upgrade to a better quality e-bike, but I simply do not know of any better bike that fits my needs. (Better assistance on hill-climbing; Weight must be < 50 lbs.)
This video totally touched my futurist geeky heart. I'm with you. I think E bikes can change the world. I can't wait to see your eurobike video! I wish so bad I could show people what riding an E bike is really like. So many people have this perception that isn't real. They think all E bikes are just mopeds. I try to explain it to them, but, they can't see past their own perception. I think if we could get more people on a demo more people would really jump into this. I'm worried about bad legislation due to the E mopeds and scooters too. I even got into a bit of a debate with a guy who had a gas powered bike. He kept telling me it was just the same as my bike, but clearly it's not. It was really frustrating because his loud motor is going to hurt all of us. thank you for the video.
There needs to be a clear dividing line between e assist bikes and e drive bikes - which are essentially electric scooters/motorcycles. Lumping them together in bans from trails and paths is really stupid.
Great video Chris. I';ve still not taken the e-bike dive but love watching your updates. I have suddenly started seriously thinking about getting a Tern GSD 10. Might need to sell some artwork to fund it tho!
Hey Chris, Just a quick question. Whats your average delivery-time on your bicycles, pre-covid and current. Is it comparable to what it is here (The Netherlands) right now? 4-8 weeks. It used to be roughly 1-3 weeks. Or do you have a big stock of bikes ready to go?
Give us the ability to lock the motor or make it harder for thieves to plug another display to a stolen motor/battery without authorization. The tech is already there just need to implement it. I start seeing theives selling ebike parts on second hand markets alot lately.
@@Propelbikes Yeah I know. Too bad it's not backward compatible with older bosch motor. Should be standard anyway and most stolen motor I see on fb marketplace are Shimano for some reason.
Heya Chris. Super video! Here in Hamilton Ontario we are seeing our local Cycling Without Age programme taking off.We give seniors who have been shut in during Covid-19 a chance to have the wind in their hair and valuable social connection. We use Electric assist Trishaws and both our clients and the volunteer pilots love it!! I think training the pilotshas gotten them over the "electric hump" and now they are getting there oun for personal rides! I think this will happen as more bikeshares go electric too. People will have so much fun but also realise they can DO this!
I'm one of those DIY riders that blurred the lines in my 1st build but I see it like a car engine. I wouldn't buy a car that could only maintain the speed limit on flats. I'd like to see the laws concentrate on how not what people ride. All due respect to Rad, I love that they present a comfortable entry point into e-bikes for the majority of people. The bikes at Propel are a cut above, more what you aspire & graduate to once you've committed to e-bikes.
I agree that a nice entry point is needed. I just bought a Rad; there’s zero chance I would have spent double, or more, on my first e-bike. But there’s definitely a chance I’ll upgrade in the future, if it’s something I end up loving and using all the time.
I'm here in A Coruña, Spain, where a newly-revamped public bicycle network, Bicicoruña, went online in early July of this year, which consists of a supply about 1/3 electric bikes and 2/3 mechanical bikes. About 1.3 million euros from the European Union and a push from the current mayor to build up the bike lanes in the city starting in 2019 has made a very real positive impact in the city with continued expansion in the number of bicycle stations in the city. I'd never ridden an electric bicycle before this summer and these new bikes (both the mechanical and electrical bikes are built in Canada), so it has been a real mind-opener not only for myself but I think also for many people in the city here as well as for people visiting the city from other areas of this region of Galicia, from other regions of Spain, as well as tourists who arrive in the thousands via the large transoceanic cruise ships that doc here weekly, sometimes three or four ships at a time with three bike stations right near the port, each within about 300 meters one from the other. I am jazzed to look into my own electric bicycle now, and really appreciate your detailed analysis of the market now, especially with a bead on the UL-angle for safety. As a longtime cyclist, recumbent trike commuter in the States (Iowa City, Iowa) from 2004-2008, it's great to see the evolution of all things bicycle, not only the technology of the bicycles themselves but the infrastructure and the mindset in general of many places in the world... it's exciting and fun to be in a city where when I park a city bike after a ride, almost invariably there is someone looking inquisitively at the bikes and the station, and I've the opportunity to participate in the educative process of the city's/region's/country's/continent's/world's transformation to being bicycle-friendly. If you speak Spanish and/or Galician, here's a link to the city's bicycle system, Bicicoruña: www.bicicoruna.gal/es
From a sustainability point of view, the way to go is retro-fitting standard bikes. That means local bike shops who take your road bike and convert it with good quality electric kits - perhaps including a battery rental to keep the initial conversion cost down.
I have a $350 ebike that I love but I'm already looking to what I want in my next bike. Even w/Ortho issues, the ebike got me back to being able to pedal.
I came here to reiterate what others have said. The infrastructure has not caught up. It’s a struggle to get the NY DOT to get our infrastructure up to speed. It takes for ever just to get NYC DOT to throw paint on the ground and the unelected Community Boards in NYC can stall these traffic safety improvements. What needs to happen at the NYC city level for us to get Oonee parking spots in NYC? Why hasn’t home grown Oonee been given as much access for public parking as CityBike? 🤨 These are the questions I am asking myself. At least in America and NYC we seem unable to adequately address our transportation needs in a timely fashion.
thx for the content. been a sub since you started. i'm wondering what pedal assist bike you would recommend for door dash/delivery. seeking a belt drive. thx, have fun..
I hope to see a continued increase trend outside the big urban areas for bikes as transportation for the masses (ie. More upright omafiets and cargo bikes). There are fewer non-recreational non-lycra riders in my area, but the numbers are growing slowly. The 2 distinct groups (transportation/recreation) desire very different types of infrastructure and bike styles. Both are good, but sometimes with limited dollars, it’s easy to point to the road riders and ask why isn’t everyone satisfied with a paint line along the side of a busy road.
I agree the price needs to come down. This will happen with scale. It’s just a matter of time. Unfortunately many of the cheap eBikes cut a lot of corners so it’s a false economy from my perspective. Once we have proper safety standards this will start to stabilize and scale appropriately.
Direct to customer sales is good for the manufacturer (or reseller) but when it comes to good advice and after sale service you will never beat the reputable retailer with a point of presence shop. Face to face value is best.
Prior to watching the video: I see great potential in upgrading existing bicycles to ebikes, ride one myself and it's great. I didn't have to spend 3+ grand, get more performance than I would have with an off-the-shelf ebike and if the manufacturer of my motor or battery go bust (unlikely, it's Bafang) then I can replace the parts. Store bought ebikes are way to expensive for what they can do, especially the speed limitation is just a joke and holds back even ebikes that cost 10 grand.... I see some interesting developments in the lower budget market but it's hard to tell how long those companies will last, the risk of having an unrepairable piece of scrap in a few years is pretty high. I'm expecting some bigger players to enter the market but unless someone actually manages to produce high-quality bikes with great guarantee and service at a reasonable price, I don't see them sell loads... and we need to really kick this trend into gear!
I have fallen several times while just standing around with my E bike it's too big and heavy for me I'm 73 and don't have strong legs I want to go to an E trike what do you recommend I want something that looks cool for a guy ( not a bunch of baskets and doilies and flowers all over it) what brand do you recommend I had a Kalkhoff bike before with a Bosch motor and it seemed like it was very high quality.
1 thing I'd like to see now that we have the technology is the ebike motor locks whether its hub or mid drive you need a key, fingerprint or even pairing a pin from your phone to get the bike to move. Definately will help with theft if you cant just cut the lock and ride off. I just got an ebike, Im not allowed to drive (I have epilepsy) an ebike gave me freedom and a job. Uber Eats is so fun on an ebike I can see why so many people do it, but always on my mind is it being stolen while making a delivery when its locked to something sketchy that isnt made to lock a bike to but is all thats around, like a signpost or fence post. I even have an alarm on it but some theives just dont care they will still try, but at least it makes a lot of noise and gets peoples attention.
Chris, you well covered most of the angles and bases in this video with some well-thought opinions. If I may: 2 items: Right to Repair and the quick fade of Haibike in the US/North American Market. Right To Repair: There are a few of us out there that like to maintain and repair our own bikes. After the business Performance Line Bearings in England came on line with kits to renew our motor bearings, I thought why does not Yamaha or Bosch, Brose or Shimano make available the interior components of our motors, such as circuit boards, torque sensors, clutches and gears? That old saying of "Just toss it and buy a new motor because their are now user-servicable parts inside" is beginning to get old. People have the right to repair what they own. On another related front: battery rebuilds. I'd like to see the big, mainstream manufacturers offer the option of rebuilding our batteries, instead of tossing a one time battery that cost near a grand, into the recycling center....... Haibike: It was not long ago that the H-Bike lineup in the US was an incredibly large numbered and quite varied lineup of bikes from trekking style touring bikes, to mtbs in 27 or 29 or fat tire styles and in between. Now, the US distributor has severely cut back the models to a sparse few, with none featuring the latest high powered PWX2 engines from Yamaha. Their advertising has been cut to zero, no more ads bought in Electric Bike Action magazine. Traffic on their facebook page reflects their own input to their page: Little to none, the last input from a poster was months and months ago. Over in Germany, many buyers still wait for their H-Bike to show up after over a year plus of waiting; while their carbon fibered all-mountain bikes were suffering from cracking around various pivot points. The Flyon adventure seems to have not worked as they thought and if I am not mistaken, the entire company was bought out by a holding company. The Haibike of today appears to be a shell of the dynamic, visionary company run by Susanne Puello and her people. I hope I'm wrong as I love my own Full FatSix and hope to keep it for many more years.
I think there will be a bigger divide between cheap e-bikes and the (more quality) ones: Entry-level ones that are sold for cheap, but as one drives them they get bored with the lack of comfort, safety, and general lack of fun, and will upgrade the gear. Lawmakers are going to step in to make sure the roads are going to be adapting to the new reality and enforcing stricter rules to make this a safe transition. Personally hope the big motor brands are going to be more inventive in ways to make the bike lighter (eg why not put gears in them, save up on the gearbox: integration of all technic in one place) and teaming up with frame manufacturers to create the perfect symbiotic bike. Pretty sure there will be lots of new hip investor-driven bikes (like vanMoof) that will try to gain popularity, but afraid (for them) that quality and service will be more important in the long run, in that regard you might be on the better track ;-)
I really appreciate your perspective and and analysis. I consider myself a cycling advocate. Dedicated cycling infrastructure is my main concern fir safety, but it can only improve with increased usage. I live in Eastern Canada and the cold, snowy winters and road salt are challenges. I'm excited at the prospect of increasing cycling usage, electric or not. I see ebikes as giving people options and making bikes an even better option for transportation.
We are waiting for the inevitable government U turn on E-bikes and such like, once the novelty factor wains, the massive TAX gap created when the tipping point is reached when the Populus switches way from hydrocarbons based vehicles. Some countries (UK) have a massive duty on fossil fuels.
i dont think it can be overstated the potential benefits for getting more people on e-bikes would have. an improvement in tech, an improvement in infrastructure, and an improvement in theft protection. i think there would be cascading positive benefits, to not just the rider, but to the world in general.
I used my e scooter more; ebikes were more expensive more heavy; also what were you going to do on rainy or cold days. They seem like only good for the summer and good weather; although in the future I would still want a mid drive ebike than a hub ebike. I have seen ebikes stores were struggling this year with high inflation. Before they were so popular during the pandemic.
I am most concerned about theft and the recent closure of many trails tor bikes. I am a 71 year old widow with lung problems. I bought two NEVO 3 bikes from Propel--one for a guest to ride, one for me. It has put the fun back into bike riding and exercising, and is going a long way in improving health and enjoyment. I just returned from a cross country trip in my motorhome with the bikes. Biggest concern/problem was by far the fear of leaving bikes unattended--even with 3 locks.Had no problems with trail closures once out of California.
Possibly we will see more SAE type rules in the bicycle world and what stays a bicycle and what becomes governed under a different designation. In Phoenix you could drive a golf cart or 4 wheeler on the secondary streets if you had it licensed as a motorcycle. Phoenix also has very wide streets, bike lanes, bike trails. Good ways to use all designations.
Loved the video! Do you have any helmet recommendations? I just got one from the xnito brand and it's not a smart helmet but they say it's very protective
For the U.S. market, and me personally, 100 mile range @ 45 max mph, solid state battery, solid spoke wheels, no more wire spokes, all wheel drive, ( hub motors) or chainless mid drive,( i.e. belt, shaft) Run flat tires, expansion of dedicated bike infrastructure, (i.e. charging, bike lanes that will also accommodate 3 wheelers) That's my short list.
Very interesting. On my latest biketrip through France, I met some people that were biketouring with an electric bike. What I noticed, is that they were carrying way more stuff than what you usually carry when using a non-electric bike. I wonder how they manage with keeping their batteries charged, but I was surprised to see that. I always thought you would be really limiting yourself with the distance you can travel per day, but somehow they manage to do it.
Funny, I just came back from France touring on my ec-cargo bike. I did indeed carry much more than I would normally (even a pair of fold up chairs!!). I didn't need to worry about the weight at all, or the bulk for that matter. I have a twin battery and my range is about 100 miles with that. Charging was no issue at all, simply stay at a campsite and charge for free or a Euro. Wild camping is a bit of an issue though, they are so heavy it's difficult to hide away in the woods.
I figured I would put my two cents in since I started biking again since, o' lets say 1984. I purchased an E-Bike back in february and absolutely love it! Two of my co-workers have since purchased E-Bikes. I guess in my little microcosm, that tells me E-Bike sales are on the rise. The two dampers I see to increase in sales are depressed economies around the world and lack on bike friendly infrastructure, which has been a systemic issue for 75'ish years at this point. Here in Arizona we also have a unique challenge with the heat and conservative governments , which tend to only be bike friendly up to recreation and not extending through to transportation. I am hoping the higher gas prices might swing the pendulum the other way, but the 106F heat is probably going to prevent that. On a side note, anyone that has ridden a motorcycle by cornfields in the summer knows that evaporative cooling can be engineered. My hope is we will get more innovative thinking in our various governments and work toward solutions to bike, pedestrian, and public transportation friendly infrastructure and get us away from our addiction to owning cars.
good chat. the thing I dont like about these big funded startups is just how unnecessarily proprietary they are making things.Everyone wants to build the walled garden and be the next Apple. In the long term, a lot of these products will be totally useless once they are broken and unable to be repaired easily if the company stops supporting or goes under, and this will contribute to the growing e-waste. Idk a lot of the 'cool' brands seem to be so over-designed. Like normal, reliable bikes have existed for years. Just stick a motor on it, you don't have to reinvent the wheel.
What's happened to the Valeo integrated motor and gears? I'm expecting a blend of Pinion-like transmission with Bosch motors, Valeo has shown some interesting prototypes last year, but I didn't hear much since.
Have you thought about doing a video about bicycle touring from campsite to campsite? The challenges involved in that such as charging extra weight of gear that sort of thing?I really enjoy your channel. You are very experienced and entertaining.
Good video Chris. Speaking of Fazua, will your shop carry the R&M Urban line? I know you are a Bosch-only shop but also a leading R&M dealer - so wondered what your plans were with respect to R&M incorporating non-Bosch systems.
Honestly I'm not certain at the moment. I plan to discuss more at with them at Eurobike. The product is really compelling. I'm always nervous with new stuff though
I always enjoy your videos. Informative and goes beyond just the bicycle itself, but the industry as a whole. I notice you don’t really cover bikes from Asia, and I understand that. I’ve been to the biggest Asian country of manufacturing, and safety is the least of their concern! There’s no such thing as an OSHA over there. You die on the job, you just get replaced. But like it or not, their market share of Ebikes is huge because of their price points. All some people look at is price and cheap to get into, then complain on forums about poor quality lol. You get what you pay for. The other end of the price spectrum is a smaller market, I think. In my town, there’s only one bike shop that carries higher end Ebikes, and I believe even they’re made over seas, but to a more specified standard. I would love a high ebike such as an R&M ebike. But I’m not in that income bracket to just out right write a check for one. Maybe if there were more low rate financing options of such a purchase people would step up their ebike game. Just my thoughts as a consumer.
I think that hub motors will gain more credibility as serious rugged contenders - with the big mid-drive brands showing an interest: an all-in-one ‘smart’ hub encompassing drive, gearing and regenerative braking will appear as a sealed unit that needs minimal maintenance and know-how to use.
Good video, thanks. I would like to know if the industry is going into the internal hub gearing more in the future, and also the CVT type gearing more and more? Advantages-disadvantages.
Infrastructure is the key. The rest of the challenges are being met: energy density improvements from solid state batteries, for example, but infrastructure will be the key. As long as too much of our environment in centered around car dependency, it will slow down the growth of eBikes.
I agree. As long as secure bike parking is included in that infrastructure.
I can't help but feel, the infrastructure (decent surfaces) are already there. The thing holding it all up? Cars. The thing that keeps cars going? Governments. Excellent source of income and a great way to get people unfit and unthinking.
@@velokernow3696 you are dead on and if we don't change the culture and perception to why there are so many more benefits to bicycling than to drive a car, we are dead in the water. People that get kill on bicycles are very unlikely to get recognized as victim but instead they are often who are at fault....sorry for my long comment but this really hits me hard as a full time commuter and bicycle explorer. Thank you for indulging me...
@@Propelbikes that is so true! It's not just the bike, it's the stuff I have to carry around, helmet, pannier, saddle etc
@@Propelbikes It should indeed. That also a contrast I encountered after I moved to Belgium after growing up in The netherlands. Infrastructure for cycling and parking. Belgium is famous for road cycling sport but in means of normal transport it has a pretty long way to go. And yes that's my inner dutch speaking.
Concern over theft significantly limits my ebike use to recreation where it is never left unattended. Until ebike theft is better addressed by manufacturers and police, I will keep my cars and motorcycles and not upgrade my ebike. Thanks for the thoughtful videos.
I think this is the majority perspective currently but it's not discussed enough. I'm optimistic that we will solve this and I have some ideas I plan to share around a practical way to do it.
For starters, all the bike mfgs need do re theft deterrence is look how motorcycle mfgs handle it. Real locks (with no de-facto master key), fork locks, multi-location VIN markings (as with cars) would be a good starting-point. For a bike costing thousands, security package costing a dollar or two in huge quantities should be a no-brainer. Real value multiplier.
I never let mine out of my sight. It’s either locked at my office or locked at home. It’s replaced my car 5/6 days a week.
I stop for coffee where it is securely locked with both a D-lock (Abus Granit) and an alarmed folding lock (Abus). I’m waiting for the Hiplok D1000 which is a serious deterrent to thrives with angle grinders.
Quotes to insure my bike have been around €750 a year.
This is a sad reality for most desirable bikes. Bosch (for a too large a cost) have implemented a motor lock connected to the removable display. Specialized have also implemented a similar thing using your phone with their new models without extra cost.
@@richardharker2775 yep. I have Nyon display. Have the lock feature but my bike is worth over €10k so I’m not leaving it in plain sight to temp any potential thief.
Just made the switch to e-bike commuting here in Portland, OR. A few comments, mainly centered around bike-use-as-a-utility: Battery-fire, I hope the industry quits allowing junk batteries. A few fires on the light Rail in any major city, and no ebikes will be allowed there; and that kind of kills a lot of transportation options. Whatever you do as a buyer, make sure you bike has Samsung LG, Panasonic or other quality cells and is from a reputable manufacturer. And to mention house safety: In-house charging is quite common as batteries like room-temperature. but this is still a risky proposition to bring charger and battery in the house. When you are finished riding on a hot day, let your battery/bike cool down for 15 minutes after turning it off - just to be safe. Its a bit paranoid, but if you can do that, we'll keep things safer. While waiting for the train, turn it off sooner rather than later. Theft is a big issue too but as price comes down, theft becomes less of an issue. I have a used Ride1Up which is around $1000-$1500. this is substantially less worry free than those super-pricey reise-muller, trek or other "gourmet" ebikes. We need companies like Rad, Ride1Up, Propella, Aventon to take this ebike movement mainstream. My downtown workplace is installing a better bike locker system so hopefully this theft issue will continue to get better. Range is a big one for me too. I can and sometimes do 8 errands in one day and use up my 30-mile battery range, riding all over the place. We desperately need 2-3x range battery technology. Maintenance and weatherproofing: We get rained on a lot here in PDX-town. A better sealed system bike would be nice. Toyota is solving this with more of a moped-like thing, called I-Road. That I think is the end-game for much of the ebike movement. Maintenance: Bikes in general are a futzing nightmare. Every few hundred miles, something needs to be adjusted, tweaked, replaced. When ebiking, this is amplified due to the higher miles you can accumulate in a month. We need better quality suspension, puncture resistant tires, less greasy/dirty chains, and reliable brakes which don't wear out or need farting-around with every few hundred miles. This stuff needs to run all with good tolerances for at least 1000 miles, preferably 2500 miles. Environment: the oil/lube on many chains contains PTFE-like forever chemicals, which naturally contaminate the water system. I switched to "green oil cycle chain lube", and hope you all do too! It seems to be on of the only quality eco-chain-lubes. I don't get paid by them! There is probably more, but ill cut-out now. Happy e-biking!
You couldn't get me to go into Portland metro area, much less ride a bike there for love nor money.
I would feel safer walking through the main bazzar in Kabul wearing a t-shirt of the Prophet (Mohammed) eating pork ribs.
The limiting factors I've seen everywhere internationally are always, always storage/theft and infrastructure. AKA, things the market can't really respond to. I'd really like to see LiFePo4 become the standard for vehicular batteries from a safety standpoint. Yes they're slightly bulkier but they're also not constant fire hazards when physically compromised.
The trends I do see are more IoT everything that's not needed/helpful (high end bosh displays, apps for everything, etc) instead of focusing on theft deterrence/recovery, and a slight trend towards unnecessary proprietary stuff (cockpit especially).
I think solid state batteries are the future. It’s just going to take time.
The new Bosch display is a great theft deterrent due to being uniquely integrated with one motor and the ability to render the motor unusable for theives.
It is a good measure for sure. We need more of these measures
Agreed completely. I don't want to have to carry 75 pounds worth of locks to secure my cargo e-bike.
Car fires ICE vehicles - 1530 per 100,000 vehicles. EVs fires 25 per 100,000 vehicles. Most EVs use lithium ion batteries
Standardized batteries that can be swapped between brands would be ideal and save a lot of waste.
Bosch kind of does this, but the push for innovation limits the benefits here
@@Propelbikes yeah, i guess there are a lit of challenges that make that difficult to achieve.
I think it will start leveling off a bit which should help
I've counted at least 10 E-bike brands that use the Reention Dorado battery system, so there is already some amount of standardization going on. But a universal standard would be ideal!
The challenge is likely none of them meet the current safety standard in NY. This standard will also likely transfer to the rest of the US. It would be a good opportunity for someone to figure that out.
I have been without a car for 6 years. Up until March of this year, I used a couple of bikes for transport depending upon my needs. I got an electric cargo bike in March and it is the BEST. I have been suggesting to friends that they should do the same but every one of them tell me it is too dangerous (in fairness, they said that before too).
I had lunch with a friend yesterday, She has a 20 month old and there is another baby on the way. She and her partner live in the suburbs. Her little guy lost his mind when he saw my bike. He didn't know it was mine - he just saw it locked up and started yelling "BIKE, BIKE, BIKE!". We sat him on the rack on the back and he was so happy even just sitting still with his mum holding onto him.
When my bike arrived, I suggested that she get a cargo bike to ride around her neighbourhood, showing her all of the cool add-ons that are available for kids but she is convinced that they are better to drive around in an SUV.
We need better bike infrastructure.
Super cool to hear this story! You're clearly a trend setter and we need more people like you. Keep it up!
Oh, my GSD is the absolute star of school pickup. One time I was dropping something off a a nearby church. The little kids at the daycare came running to the fence beside where I had locked her and were all lined up to ask questions.
@@Propelbikes I am lucky. It feels very light to be without a car. I will never own a car again. I grew up in western Canada and used transit, bikes, taxis, and a skateboard. Once I got the to mountain west, I acquiesced and got a car. I left it parked for months so let it go. I am an avid skier but have adapted to the bus and hitch-hiking. I always have beer and gas money so I am a good passenger.
😂 love this!
@@skiergirl4753 I have a passenger seat on my bike, so if you're in Tennessee...
Glad you mentioned recumbents. Whereas a traditional two-wheel recumbent is considered a niche, harder-to-start-on-a-hill bike, and with limited appeal, recumbent trikes actually represent a fantastic accessibility option for older riders and riders who have a disability. Even the recumbent bike manufacturers have recognized that trikes are where the market is going. The availability of recumbent trikes locally is still terrible in most places, so many people are either not aware they exist or are reluctant to buy them sight unseen. Just as cargo bikes are game changers, trikes are such a different riding experience that they may represent a sleeping giant.
There need to be a standards setting for ebikes, so batteries, parts, etc are high quality, driven by user experience (and not marketing), and fit for use & repair.
Yes! More reparability and opportunities to become an "ebike mechanic"
@@itsPenguinBoy Yes, interoperability is key. Non standardisation in bike tech is maddening. 50 years ago, most bike fittings like bottom brackets, stems, seat posts etc were standard. It's now all proprietary, hellish expensive, and each variation needs its own specialised tools. I can understand the need to accommodate design differences, but it's got out of hand. With battery tech, chargers and connections should be standardised at a bare minimum.
Electric bike company bikes do a good job with ease of repair, and they’re very modular with everything easy to fix and replace. After having an Apollo Explore electric scooter that was utter hell to replace the tire (it got flats all the time, too), my electric bike company model C is a breath of fresh air in ease of repair.
Diy ebike market has had that covered for ages , the chinese battery supplier will happily tell you how to replace bms or individual fail cell after warranty , or send you a new charger , as for ewheels , just a bit more fiddly but hub motors are robust and fixable with some testing equipment .
I’ve been using ebikes as my main form of transport for over 2 years now. When I started I was the ‘odd one’ in town and got stared at, now there are many and we even have a specialist shop with a good range and support, it is growing fast.
Personally, I would like to see more commuter oriented bike shops with big service departments that sell good quality analogue bikes next to ebikes. A proportion of the market that is shorter distance, less frequent urban utility don’t need an ebike. This brings consumer cost down and can reduce some complications in serving(which also reduces cost). Just a thought.
I agree tbqh. a lot of these shops are limiting their potential addressable market by only focusing on racing bikes. I would even argue that at least in NYC the commuting business is more sustainable and could also finance the sporty side of the business in the current environment.
There should be Bike parking with good security. It’s scary to leave a locked bike outside
The big thing is redesign our city streets. Denmark started redesign in 1970. Instead of car friendly, the streets are bicycle friendly. Bicycles take the short route and cars take a much longer route. People are healthier and the cost for health care has dropped a great deal.
Glad to hear all you say. Security is a big one. I'd love to see an optional built in tracker. Perhaps lock points that clamp to ground set bike racks, and an integrated alarm. Fear of theft/damage is such a big deterrent to riding a bike usefully, do you think it's more off putting than safe infrastructure? Glad you're going to the bike show, I'm travelling Germany, nearly booked to go, but decided I'd go to the Netherlands, sit at a roadside cafe and watch all the great bikes go by. I've noticed the older generation ( to which I belong 😁 ) looking totally chic and elegant riding very upright step through ebikes, moving in foursomes like a dressage team, they really know how to make group riding look effortless. I see women riding in long flowing dresses, I tried it at Lake Annecy on my emtb, got it caught up in the brake disc, dragged me to a sudden halt, passers by had to rip me free..😂 Have a great show, love to see some awesome belt drives cargos and urban, I keep damaging my dérailleur during transit. 😁
@Robert Mudry 😕 yes I see what you mean. Perhaps cycling parking needs a floor pan with a big steel lock, and you just take your own heavy duty padlock? At least we wouldn't have to carry a heavy chain everywhere. I've tried to start a bike crèche in our city, for all types of bike, but these things take time and money.
Suppose you do have a viable tracker. Who is going to recover the ebike once you've tracked it?
I think you broke some kind of speed record with the number of issues and different topics you got through! I was breathless well before the end. 😆
I’m sure the next instalment in 2024 will be VERY interesting, looking back at everything you’ve raised in this video. Well done. 👊🏽
Bike sharing got me into cycling this year, so that for me is the big trend. The cost for e-bikes is a little high if I just plan to joyride(Bay Wheels is 20 cents a minute with a subscription, but a Muni fare is $2.50, so it becomes cheaper at 13 minutes) but I can usually find a pedal bike, and that works better for me since I'm often walking the bike through difficult traffic areas - it's still faster than walking, but slower than it could be. The bike share, bike parking and other rental micromobility companies are all positioned to lobby cities for infrastructure. It helps ridership and lowers insurance costs to have protected networks, and I've seen some examples of these companies sponsoring intersection changes(Spin, for one, has put out some promotional videos of it). I'm happy to support those companies with some cash since their growth acts as a public good.
Battery chemistry is also continuing to be exciting. Sodium ion is on the path to commercialization and I've seen some very optimistic things about it.
In Denmark we have speed limits for this. eBikes kan not be assisted to more than 25 KM/H but bikes that are assisted to faster speed are speedpedelecs and have a licenceno and higher insurance like a moped.
Closing trails? Get rid of throttle bikes. They are dangerous to me on my class 1 bike, and when I am a pedestrian. 30 mph on a “bike path” with walkers is insane! We need clear indication of bike type. If we don’t straighten this out the government will restrict the products.
Looking forward to your overview of the Euro Bike Show. You remain so enthusiastic about the trends in e-bikes in general and your logical approach to the many new changes in technology as the world increases its acceptance of this form of transportation. As you pointed out about the Porsche, etc entries to the field, it will be interesting to see how the stable of Riese Muller, Moustache, Bulls, etc companies hold their place or get eaten up by the big contender’s . Take care and enjoy the Euro Show.
You’re on-bike self-camera is excellent. I haven’t made the jump to E bikes but if I do it will be because of you.
Thanks! It's been a long time in the making, but I think we are pretty much where we want to be with it now. I'm excited to start using it more to capture the biking experience more.
I think the biggest threat to e-biking is really policy. People misunderstanding what constitutes an e-bike versus a moped, motorcycle, and the resultant banning of e-bikes from trails etc.
It's also the electric motorcycle or dirt bike on the trail masquerading as an e-bike. They are the ones giving the category a negative perception.
I’ve been a fan of your channel, company and you for a while now. As I’m starting to get serious about purchasing an e-bike, I like what you and your company stand for. When the time comes, although the cost will be higher, I look forward to getting a high quality bike from your shop. NYC made a lot of changes these past couple of years and I can’t wait to be an e-bike commuter.
I think the fact that we have very strict rules for ebikes here in norway (no throttle over 6km/h, pedal assist up to 25km/h) helps a lot. Trying to get local authorities to differentiate between the different classes of ebike instead of just outright banning all of'em outright seems like it'd be a battle
Absolutely love this. I've been commuting in London for 12 years now. Basically since I moved here. As I'm getting older I need a little help so can see myself purchasing an ebike in at least the next year. Watching this has made me feel really excited to see what's coming 🙂
COVID drew my attention to ebikes. I wanted to get out and ride some great bike trails near my home during lockdown and discovered a great way to get a good workout outdoors. SInce my initial purchase in Jan 2020, I've added ebikes for my wife, other family members as well as inspiring quite a few friends to buy them.
There are many areas of concern based upon safety and use regulations (certainly some are needed) but it is the freedom to hop on and go fast and far that keeps me in the saddle riding +/- 200 miles per week for both transportation/recreation and physical fitness purposes. This has been a tremendous benefit to me health wise (I'm 71) and as I see more and more ebikes on the roads and trails, it becomes obvious that without the establishment of stricter operational rules and real enforcement, there will be more and more restrictions of their use.
I hate that this is inevitable but common sense and situational awareness seem to be all to rare these days. With so many affordable ebikes flooding the market, things will only get worse and my new found joy of biking outdoors will be gone. As is usual, a few bad actors can ruin it for everyone else.
Whenever I watch those lovely videos of Dutch people cycling to some place on the excellent Dutch bike infrastructure, there always seems to be a moment when a person on a low speed, petrolatum powered Vespa looking scooter passes the cyclist. Dutch bike infrastructure isn't just for cycling, so they have theoretically figured out how to handle higher speed vehicles in bike spaces. I'd love to know more about how that works.
It’s a bit of a contentious topic. When we first visited in 2019 this came up and we learned that there was some legislation to push scooters out of the bike paths, but it seems that is just in Amsterdam.
In NYC this is a big challenge we are currently dealing with. Most of the scooters in NYC are unregistered and they are often getting impounded lately. Unfortunately the department of consumer affairs doesn’t seem to be addressing it at the level of sale and I’m not sure if consumers are aware they are purchasing devices that need to be registered.
@@Propelbikes Interesting. I wonder what those advocating for the ban are motivated by. Is it a speed concern? Noise (those little engines seem to punch above their weight in the decibel category?) Emissions? A general "That's not a bicycle!" attitude that is based on gut feeling and doesn't have much data to cite?
I'm of the camp that thinks infrastructure should be based on vehicle size and speed. If it fits in a bike lane and cannot go over 25 mph, then the bike lane is where it should be. Mixed use paths should have lower speeds and limits on size. Sidewalks she be reserved for pedestrians and those using mobility aids.
My little set of standards fails on a lot of details. I don't particularly want to breathe engine fumes. The 25 mph rule is in conflict with Class 3 bikes. Sometimes I ride on the sidewalk when infrastructure fails me. In fact, some of my local "bike paths" contain sections that are sidewalks with signs permitting bikes. We will probably never find an ideal solution.
@@Propelbikes scooters are only allowed up on bikepaths up to 25 km/h. They are machines limited to that speed and they carry a blue license plate. Scooters that go faster usually go on the normal road and where they do align with bikepath they can only go 30 km/h. A lot of ebikes also easily get up to this speed. Theres so many ebikes in this country. Im not a fan tbh. The speed is too high. I would favor e-bikes only as a supplement to normal biking. Too many 60-70 year old here go way too fast. Accidents are on the rise.
I think thing change as you have the infrastructure. In places without infrastructure or limited infrastructure fast ebikes are much more needed.
@@strikeformatik Gotta say, a complaint about the 60-70 year olds going too fast is a novelty. I'm used to hearing complaints about the youths, what with their jazz music and avocado toast. 😁
Speed limits in the US are higher just in general. The *reduced* speed for traffic in front of my eight year old's school is 40 mph/64 kmh. We also mandate helmets for minors and encourage them for adults. I average about 12 mph/19kmh when riding my e-bike with my kid on the back, and non-assisted cyclists blow past me all the time.
The special license plate requirement is an interesting detail. I'm not typically a supporter of bike licensing schemes, but perhaps that's a reasonable compromise for Class 3 bikes. I don't know. It's something I'll think about.
It’s so great to have this kind of content highlighting the 5% of the bike industry that isn’t stuck in the past or focusing on lightweight components and aerodynamics that don’t matter to 99% of people. Looking forward to sport cycling becoming a tiny little niche relative to what we want.
@@TamarMebonia No it sucks in the UK as well. Secure parking is critical. People won’t buy good quality bikes built to last, made in the most sustainable way if they don’t feel safe leaving it anywhere.
But for the time being, get a Brompton or Brompton knock-off would be my recommendation. Reasonably easy to get up the stairs and you don’t have to leave it anywhere. It’s not perfect but it’s what I’d do if living in a city. Otherwise I ride my Dutch bike which I’m relatively ok with leaving outside. Would never leave my Riese & Muller anywhere though. Only ride it on leisure rides where it never leaves my sight.
When I was talking about lightweight components, I’m not talking about stuff like that new lightweight Brompton. That’s useful. I’m talking about road bikes and the most expensive components that aren’t built to last and just for ultimate racing performance.
@@TamarMebonia I really recommend the electric Tern bikes. They take up much less room to store and get in lifts while still giving a great ride experience. Expense is a problem though.....
Weight will always matter. Don't believe me? Try pedaling a 100lb bike up a very slight rise without electric power. Next turn the power up to full and lift it into the bed of your pickup truck.
I haven't used a car to commute in 6 or seven years thanks to the ebikes purchased from your Brooklyn shop. Great, informative video. I (like many who have responded ) am concerned about bike theft when meeting friends in the city for dinner or a movie; there are nearly no safe places to park.
A non-bike question--what equipment did you use to film while you were speaking while you rode a bicycle?The sound and stability of the video is great. Stay well and best wishes for the future.
I'm back into biking with my ebike. At my age, I thought that part of my life was behind me. Now I can get out there and enjoy the outdoors on my bike again. I think legislators need to understand what this new product means to a growing number of voters.
Your content is always comprehensive and thoughtful. Thank you!
those moped style "e-bikes" that have a throttle and go 30+ mph are ruining it for everybody else. these companies slap on a set of pedals on these "bikes" knowing damn well nobody actually pedals them. those things are basically motorcycles and idiots ride them on the bike paths at the beach at full speed. then they hit and injure someone and then next thing you know all e-bikes are blamed. it's very sad. many such cases. I personally think all e-bikes should require pedaling and have pedal assist motors only.
That's pretty much how it is here in europe. There is a 15mph speed limit for pedal assist and 6mph limit for throttles. I bet you wouldn't like putting up with such ridiculous limits. Americans could do the same if they wanted to, but I don't think they are that stupid. Maybe I'm wrong.
Although I agree with you on the bad riders ruining it for the rest of us, I could not manage my e-bike without my throttle. It's a heavy bike (Rad Rover 6 Plus), and getting going from a standstill, especially if going up a bit of a hill, can be challenging if you didn't plan ahead and gear down before stopping. That throttle has saved me from dropping my bike on more than one occasion.
My greatest concern is over-powered e-bikes assaulting limited-power bicycle paths.
My 250W Shimano STEPS on my Hase Lepus is (to my knowledge) still the accepted norm for E-assist worldwide.
We are likely going to see conflicts on a huge level from high wattage e-bikes in speeding, and in misbehavior, on bicycle paths.
To me, 250W of E-assist is fine!
Its absolutely fine. S pedelecs make no sense were i live. Also they wore the parts out much quicker without having a significant benefit imo.
In Aus we have laws for public use stating the ebikes have to be assisted to 25kph only. Sadly when I commute to work I am the slowest on mainstream bike routes but at least I can whistle a happy tune whilst riding, uphill too.
Totally agree. Yesterday I got on a friend's recently purchased Chinese cheapo ebike and it was almost frightening how much crazy torque was powered to the hub drive. Even in level #1 it felt dangerous to the uninitiated. I ride a Gazelle with mid drive Bosch
Lots of Bicycle Cops if it comes to that. The 750W idiots are already a danger. (Not all of them obviously.)
The approach of some EU countries makes a lot of sense to me. 250W / 25kph e-bikes are treated like normal bikes. Anything faster needs a numberplate and cannot go in bike lanes, on towpaths, etc. But they still have advantages vs a moped, no tax, insurance MOT required so the running costs end up way lower.
Another great video. Asking the questions that need to be asked, hoping to keep integrity in the eBike market. Thank you Chris!
I used to ride my regular bike for local errands. I have it insured and use a Kryptonite lock for the bike with a cable through the rear wheel. I felt safe enough taking it to the barbers, dry cleaners, Sprouts, Krogers, local shopping centers. Even rode to the nearest express bus center and took it in to Atlanta for work several times. There is a multi-use path very close to me, giving access to pretty much anything I need. However, no bike racks at Target, Publix, Lowes, Home Depot, optometrists, dentist, Chick-filA, Zaxby's, ... It would be a huge win if shop owners with easy bike access simply installed decent bike racks. I've taken my e-bike to a lot of these places and feel pretty safe with shops that have something to lock my e-bike to. But I wouldn't take it anywhere that doesn't at the very least have a bike rack or something suitable. I should probably start writing letters just asking for bike racks. And add my e-bike to my insurance plan. And maybe get a slightly beefier lock. And either lose a lot of weight or get a battery with more range. Or both.
Excellent synopsis. Your comments regarding battery fires is well-taken. Because of theft, I suspect most apartment dwellers store their e-bikes in their homes. A battery fire could be catastrophic. Regulation of batteries is critical.
Yeah that's an interesting point about how theft could actually amplify the threat. In China eBikes are required to be stored and charged outside so many of the products from there weren't designed for this use. 🤞for better bike parking and infrastructure along with better batteries and regulations for them. Better and safer batteries is definitely part of the path forward
@@Propelbikes Of course you would say that about Chinese ebikes as they are your competition. But it's not ebikes that are causing nearly all the fires, which you probably already know. But any opportunity to bash the competition.
Thanks for a great and thoughtful overview of the industry. Linking to the safety issues discussion I’d like to add: Braking of bike trailers. The need for brake systems on trailers that integrate with the bike’s brake. I.e. that brake/s on single- or double-wheel trailers are also activated - e.g. hydraulically or electrically - when braking the bicycle. Loaded bike trailers easily add 50-70 pounds (25-35 kg) to the bike’s combined weight. In one case on UA-cam the rider tells his trailer weigh 100 kg.
Two: particularly for vacation purposes the range of ebikes is an issue. I.e., long distance travelling I believe is growing. This includes visiting more remote places where charging possibilities may be few and far between. For added flexibility - daily use vs. going on vacation - manufacturers may build in plug/s and battery combiner electronics for easy attachment of additional batteries, including non-brand specific ones - for 200 mile/300 km range.
Lastly, reviews and testing of ebikes would benefit from discussion of a bike’s expected range. I am mindful of the issues related to wind, road and gradient conditions, the rider’s weight, the number of stoppages when riding etc. However, a simple test of the range achieved by the reviewer and the number of Wh consumed per mile/km will benefit prospective customers in choosing ebike’s that suit their needs.
Would love to see your input on the Vanmoof and the concept of a bike a service rather than owning one!
I definitely like the idea, but executing on it is very challenging. New business models often take many years to work out the kinks, but I think their concepts are very smart and attractive to a large base.
I really like the special parking garages for ebikes, because of thefts. A really good ebike designed for longevity can be a significant investment. I hope many cities adopt this idea for bicycle parking.
When you visit Euro Bike, maybe you can find time to check out a German cargobike trend: Freie Latenräder (free cargobikes).
There are organisations in 163 different citys (3 are outside of Germany and Austria) at the moment, where you can borrow one of 540 cargobikes for up to 3 days for free.
The idea is to establish free cargobikes as a common good, get more people on a cargobike for the first time, give everybody the opportunity to transport stuff, or childern without a car from time to time and let them see what is possible.
The concept was invented 10ish years ago im Cologne, Berlin has the most free cargobikes with around 150, Frankfurt's Main-Lastenrad de has 19 and you can just borrow them for up to 2 days, and here in Munich we have 20 cargobikes and 2 bike trailer, with at least 12 more cargobikes coming this year.
If that sounds interesting and you want some contacts give us a shout. If you not only going to Frankfurt and find yourself in Bavaria drop by. We who are activ in Freie-Lastenradl de like to tell our stoy.
There is alot going on. Your analysis and delivery were excellent. It is an exciting time for bicycling, both standard and electric. Thank you.
I don't want to be a downer because I think pedal assist has the potential to make biking for transportation possible for more people, but the other evening I was riding home at a pretty good clip and enjoying the quiet sounds around me when this e bike with really wide (off road?) tires passed my at almost twice my speed. The noise from it's tires flying passed was quite shocking... waaaarrrh. If your going that fast with big fat tires you're on a moped not a bike lol. Hopefully we can tease of out those intricacies in law similar to how they have in parts of Europe.
To me, ebikes lose a lot of what I find beautiful in a bicycle... the mechanical simplicity, silently gliding under nothing but human power, financially accessible. But I'm glad for the additional accessibility pedal assist can provide those that benefit from that!
You've got a great vibe and level headed way of delivering info. Keep on keeping' on!!
I love the fact that you are utilizing this forum to discuss bicycling and the public in regards to sustainability. You brought many great points regarding the trends, changes and the socioeconomic ad geopolitical aspects of the world and covid and how it has affect how the bicycle industry is going towards, price, distribution, availability and culture...well the culture is something that doesn't get mentioned a lot in my opinion. I used a bicycle , public transportation and car share as my modes to get around with the bicycle been the primary source of mobility...but I find that when I mention that I am a 52 year old male with a college education and no desire to own a car ever again, the looks I get is of disparity, laughter and a regard as to someone who is not a viable economic contributing member of society. My point is that bicycling in the periphery of the US, the southeast, mid west and the rural and less urban areas are not as accepted as the major cities and in some places like here in Tampa, Fl and Florida in general , bicycling it is still associated with economic inequality and less connection with the paradigm of consumerism and wasted. I wish to change that culture but it is so hard to compete with over abundance and even the bicycling industry is constantly injection the ethos of new, shiny, consume , discard and re purchase. I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject. I really enjoy your content and I only wish we would do more to change the culture and perception of bicycling in this country.
I'm curious on Propel's thoughts on non-bike e-mobility, like e-scooters, e-skate and powered mono wheels. When I look at say the Brompton Electric (so beautiful), which has the goal of 'e-transport that fits under your desk' I think that is also achieved, for a similar weight, price and range, by an Electric Unicycle (EUC). A lot of delivery riders choose scooters or EUC's because they can be brought with them when picking up or dropping off, significantly reducing the risk of theft.
I think they all have a place. I do think it depends on the intended use and the infrastructure. To replace car trips, eBikes serve a greater chance, especially when you look at cargo bikes. Many roads aren't able to accommodate these smaller wheels and I personally often don't feel so safe travelling at any decent speed because of it. Sure the experienced rider may be able to navigate, but I don't feel it's for the masses. Maybe shorter distanced, but longer distanced at higher speeds I think you need a 20" Wheel at least.
Theft will be mitigated significantly by better parking options and a better strategy for theft recovery. It's a little complex, but it is possible.
@@Propelbikes thank you for the reply - I agree on the cargo point for sure, there are long distance EUCs at the 18" size, complete with a seat - but they are beasts that are not as portable, and the price goes north of $4K. Agree on the not for the masses too, at least not yet. Really enjoy your coverage of the not-a-car space, love your videos.
You’re very kind! Thanks for the support!
Something I'd like to see more of is bike trailers for e-bikes (more robust, more utilitarian and with e-bike compatible hitching systems). I've got one kid trailer I converted to a flatbed and it's massively more useful than a cargo bike both in that I can haul more and a wider variety of things (kayak!)and in that I'm not stuck with a cargo bike that doesn't fit on standard racks, etc. when I don't want to haul anything.
I've developed arthritis, which has limited my ability to pursue long-distance travel by bike. I'd really like to see a mountain bike or road trike with a nominal range of 200 miles. At that range I could be comfortable tackling remote long-distance bike routes. There are places in the west where recharging every 60 or sometimes even every 100 miles is a shaky proposition.
Such a great resource for information. Thanks Chris, for all you do to bring ebike awareness to us all!
How do you deal with bike storage, especially cargo types, in New York? It's tough where I live, since not many places have designated bike storage areas, and studded tires+salt don't cooperate with carpet. I basically need to have garage access to avoid bringing it up and down stairs every day.
Very insightful. A lot of moving parts coming together. Doubling the cost of fuel for transport is amplified across the supply chain. Maybe it will be more efficient to have domestic manufacturing and sourcing.
Your advocacy and being the responsible ambassador for the use of this vital technology continues to be very encouraging. Keep up the great work.
I wish I would see more commentary and discussion on the issue of whether you want an e-bike that functions esstentially as an electric motorcycle or one that functions as a bicycle with some power assistance. I'm interested in the latter. I'm overweight and had a hip replacement, so I need a steo=through.
One of my main objectives in riding an ebike is to improve my fitness and health. I need a bike that's light weight, because I need to be able to carry it up stairs at any time. Right now, I ride a Cannondale Neo Treadwell EQ Remoxte. I ride it all over Manhattan and sometimes take it on the train to NJ or Westchester. It has a low power, low-range hub motor/battery. I'd like to upgrade to a better quality e-bike, but I simply do not know of any better bike that fits my needs. (Better assistance on hill-climbing; Weight must be < 50 lbs.)
This video totally touched my futurist geeky heart. I'm with you. I think E bikes can change the world. I can't wait to see your eurobike video!
I wish so bad I could show people what riding an E bike is really like. So many people have this perception that isn't real. They think all E bikes are just mopeds. I try to explain it to them, but, they can't see past their own perception.
I think if we could get more people on a demo more people would really jump into this.
I'm worried about bad legislation due to the E mopeds and scooters too. I even got into a bit of a debate with a guy who had a gas powered bike. He kept telling me it was just the same as my bike, but clearly it's not. It was really frustrating because his loud motor is going to hurt all of us.
thank you for the video.
can I touch heart how much lady
There needs to be a clear dividing line between e assist bikes and e drive bikes - which are essentially electric scooters/motorcycles. Lumping them together in bans from trails and paths is really stupid.
Great video Chris. I';ve still not taken the e-bike dive but love watching your updates. I have suddenly started seriously thinking about getting a Tern GSD 10. Might need to sell some artwork to fund it tho!
Hey Chris, Just a quick question.
Whats your average delivery-time on your bicycles, pre-covid and current.
Is it comparable to what it is here (The Netherlands) right now? 4-8 weeks.
It used to be roughly 1-3 weeks.
Or do you have a big stock of bikes ready to go?
I'm from Belgium. I want to buy a Moustache bike. Can't order . All sold out until 2024.....
Give us the ability to lock the motor or make it harder for thieves to plug another display to a stolen motor/battery without authorization. The tech is already there just need to implement it. I start seeing theives selling ebike parts on second hand markets alot lately.
This actually exists with the new Bosch displays
@@Propelbikes Yeah I know. Too bad it's not backward compatible with older bosch motor. Should be standard anyway and most stolen motor I see on fb marketplace are Shimano for some reason.
I love this idea for the bosh bikes.
I found a stem cap on amazon that lets you hide an apple air tag under it. Good start. I would also love to see more alarms built into ebikes.
I've been watching Rad Power Bikes for awhile now. They seem to be making smart moves and a decent company.
I received my Radexpand 5 two weeks ago, I suggest you make the jump cause they are great! Good luck.
Heya Chris. Super video! Here in Hamilton Ontario we are seeing our local Cycling Without Age programme taking off.We give seniors who have been shut in during Covid-19 a chance to have the wind in their hair and valuable social connection. We use Electric assist Trishaws and both our clients and the volunteer pilots love it!! I think training the pilotshas gotten them over the "electric hump" and now they are getting there oun for personal rides! I think this will happen as more bikeshares go electric too. People will have so much fun but also realise they can DO this!
Another fantastic video. Very much enjoyed. Thanks for putting them together and sharing.
I'm one of those DIY riders that blurred the lines in my 1st build but I see it like a car engine. I wouldn't buy a car that could only maintain the speed limit on flats. I'd like to see the laws concentrate on how not what people ride.
All due respect to Rad, I love that they present a comfortable entry point into e-bikes for the majority of people. The bikes at Propel are a cut above, more what you aspire & graduate to once you've committed to e-bikes.
I agree that a nice entry point is needed. I just bought a Rad; there’s zero chance I would have spent double, or more, on my first e-bike. But there’s definitely a chance I’ll upgrade in the future, if it’s something I end up loving and using all the time.
I'm here in A Coruña, Spain, where a newly-revamped public bicycle network, Bicicoruña, went online in early July of this year, which consists of a supply about 1/3 electric bikes and 2/3 mechanical bikes. About 1.3 million euros from the European Union and a push from the current mayor to build up the bike lanes in the city starting in 2019 has made a very real positive impact in the city with continued expansion in the number of bicycle stations in the city. I'd never ridden an electric bicycle before this summer and these new bikes (both the mechanical and electrical bikes are built in Canada), so it has been a real mind-opener not only for myself but I think also for many people in the city here as well as for people visiting the city from other areas of this region of Galicia, from other regions of Spain, as well as tourists who arrive in the thousands via the large transoceanic cruise ships that doc here weekly, sometimes three or four ships at a time with three bike stations right near the port, each within about 300 meters one from the other. I am jazzed to look into my own electric bicycle now, and really appreciate your detailed analysis of the market now, especially with a bead on the UL-angle for safety. As a longtime cyclist, recumbent trike commuter in the States (Iowa City, Iowa) from 2004-2008, it's great to see the evolution of all things bicycle, not only the technology of the bicycles themselves but the infrastructure and the mindset in general of many places in the world... it's exciting and fun to be in a city where when I park a city bike after a ride, almost invariably there is someone looking inquisitively at the bikes and the station, and I've the opportunity to participate in the educative process of the city's/region's/country's/continent's/world's transformation to being bicycle-friendly. If you speak Spanish and/or Galician, here's a link to the city's bicycle system, Bicicoruña: www.bicicoruna.gal/es
From a sustainability point of view, the way to go is retro-fitting standard bikes. That means local bike shops who take your road bike and convert it with good quality electric kits - perhaps including a battery rental to keep the initial conversion cost down.
agree
I have a $350 ebike that I love but I'm already looking to what I want in my next bike. Even w/Ortho issues, the ebike got me back to being able to pedal.
I came here to reiterate what others have said. The infrastructure has not caught up. It’s a struggle to get the NY DOT to get our infrastructure up to speed. It takes for ever just to get NYC DOT to throw paint on the ground and the unelected Community Boards in NYC can stall these traffic safety improvements. What needs to happen at the NYC city level for us to get Oonee parking spots in NYC? Why hasn’t home grown Oonee been given as much access for public parking as CityBike? 🤨 These are the questions I am asking myself. At least in America and NYC we seem unable to adequately address our transportation needs in a timely fashion.
thx for the content. been a sub since you started. i'm wondering what pedal assist bike you would recommend for door dash/delivery. seeking a belt drive. thx, have fun..
I hope to see a continued increase trend outside the big urban areas for bikes as transportation for the masses (ie. More upright omafiets and cargo bikes). There are fewer non-recreational non-lycra riders in my area, but the numbers are growing slowly. The 2 distinct groups (transportation/recreation) desire very different types of infrastructure and bike styles. Both are good, but sometimes with limited dollars, it’s easy to point to the road riders and ask why isn’t everyone satisfied with a paint line along the side of a busy road.
They NEED to get more affordable
Agreed. Won't get better infrastructure until we get more bikes on the road.
Some ebikes cost as much as a car did in the 80s. Down right ridiculous.
With time, the secondary market is going to be more available. Right now its still kind of cutting edge so not a lot out there
So you wanted more affordable cars or cars which are built good? I guess we know the answer.
I agree the price needs to come down. This will happen with scale. It’s just a matter of time. Unfortunately many of the cheap eBikes cut a lot of corners so it’s a false economy from my perspective. Once we have proper safety standards this will start to stabilize and scale appropriately.
Direct to customer sales is good for the manufacturer (or reseller) but when it comes to good advice and after sale service you will never beat the reputable retailer with a point of presence shop. Face to face value is best.
Prior to watching the video:
I see great potential in upgrading existing bicycles to ebikes, ride one myself and it's great. I didn't have to spend 3+ grand, get more performance than I would have with an off-the-shelf ebike and if the manufacturer of my motor or battery go bust (unlikely, it's Bafang) then I can replace the parts. Store bought ebikes are way to expensive for what they can do, especially the speed limitation is just a joke and holds back even ebikes that cost 10 grand.... I see some interesting developments in the lower budget market but it's hard to tell how long those companies will last, the risk of having an unrepairable piece of scrap in a few years is pretty high. I'm expecting some bigger players to enter the market but unless someone actually manages to produce high-quality bikes with great guarantee and service at a reasonable price, I don't see them sell loads... and we need to really kick this trend into gear!
Really great video! Thanks for being so thoughtful and sharing. This is a new area of interest for me and this was really interesting and helpful.
I have fallen several times while just standing around with my E bike it's too big and heavy for me I'm 73 and don't have strong legs I want to go to an E trike what do you recommend I want something that looks cool for a guy ( not a bunch of baskets and doilies and flowers all over it) what brand do you recommend I had a Kalkhoff bike before with a Bosch motor and it seemed like it was very high quality.
Range, comfort and utility. These are the trends.
1 thing I'd like to see now that we have the technology is the ebike motor locks whether its hub or mid drive you need a key, fingerprint or even pairing a pin from your phone to get the bike to move. Definately will help with theft if you cant just cut the lock and ride off. I just got an ebike, Im not allowed to drive (I have epilepsy) an ebike gave me freedom and a job. Uber Eats is so fun on an ebike I can see why so many people do it, but always on my mind is it being stolen while making a delivery when its locked to something sketchy that isnt made to lock a bike to but is all thats around, like a signpost or fence post. I even have an alarm on it but some theives just dont care they will still try, but at least it makes a lot of noise and gets peoples attention.
Chris, you well covered most of the angles and bases in this video with some well-thought opinions. If I may: 2 items: Right to Repair and the quick fade of Haibike in the US/North American Market. Right To Repair: There are a few of us out there that like to maintain and repair our own bikes. After the business Performance Line Bearings in England came on line with kits to renew our motor bearings, I thought why does not Yamaha or Bosch, Brose or Shimano make available the interior components of our motors, such as circuit boards, torque sensors, clutches and gears? That old saying of "Just toss it and buy a new motor because their are now user-servicable parts inside" is beginning to get old. People have the right to repair what they own. On another related front: battery rebuilds. I'd like to see the big, mainstream manufacturers offer the option of rebuilding our batteries, instead of tossing a one time battery that cost near a grand, into the recycling center....... Haibike: It was not long ago that the H-Bike lineup in the US was an incredibly large numbered and quite varied lineup of bikes from trekking style touring bikes, to mtbs in 27 or 29 or fat tire styles and in between. Now, the US distributor has severely cut back the models to a sparse few, with none featuring the latest high powered PWX2 engines from Yamaha. Their advertising has been cut to zero, no more ads bought in Electric Bike Action magazine. Traffic on their facebook page reflects their own input to their page: Little to none, the last input from a poster was months and months ago. Over in Germany, many buyers still wait for their H-Bike to show up after over a year plus of waiting; while their carbon fibered all-mountain bikes were suffering from cracking around various pivot points. The Flyon adventure seems to have not worked as they thought and if I am not mistaken, the entire company was bought out by a holding company. The Haibike of today appears to be a shell of the dynamic, visionary company run by Susanne Puello and her people. I hope I'm wrong as I love my own Full FatSix and hope to keep it for many more years.
Hi Propel, just tumbled across your channel & I love it.
What mic-setup do you use, when riding your bike and talking? The sound is amazing.
I think there will be a bigger divide between cheap e-bikes and the (more quality) ones: Entry-level ones that are sold for cheap, but as one drives them they get bored with the lack of comfort, safety, and general lack of fun, and will upgrade the gear.
Lawmakers are going to step in to make sure the roads are going to be adapting to the new reality and enforcing stricter rules to make this a safe transition.
Personally hope the big motor brands are going to be more inventive in ways to make the bike lighter (eg why not put gears in them, save up on the gearbox: integration of all technic in one place) and teaming up with frame manufacturers to create the perfect symbiotic bike.
Pretty sure there will be lots of new hip investor-driven bikes (like vanMoof) that will try to gain popularity, but afraid (for them) that quality and service will be more important in the long run, in that regard you might be on the better track ;-)
I really appreciate your perspective and and analysis. I consider myself a cycling advocate. Dedicated cycling infrastructure is my main concern fir safety, but it can only improve with increased usage. I live in Eastern Canada and the cold, snowy winters and road salt are challenges. I'm excited at the prospect of increasing cycling usage, electric or not. I see ebikes as giving people options and making bikes an even better option for transportation.
We are waiting for the inevitable government U turn on E-bikes and such like, once the novelty factor wains, the massive TAX gap created when the tipping point is reached when the Populus switches way from hydrocarbons based vehicles. Some countries (UK) have a massive duty on fossil fuels.
i dont think it can be overstated the potential benefits for getting more people on e-bikes would have. an improvement in tech, an improvement in infrastructure, and an improvement in theft protection. i think there would be cascading positive benefits, to not just the rider, but to the world in general.
I used my e scooter more; ebikes were more expensive more heavy; also what were you going to do on rainy or cold days. They seem like only good for the summer and good weather; although in the future I would still want a mid drive ebike than a hub ebike. I have seen ebikes stores were struggling this year with high inflation. Before they were so popular during the pandemic.
I am most concerned about theft and the recent closure of many trails tor bikes. I am a 71 year old widow with lung problems. I bought two NEVO 3 bikes from Propel--one for a guest to ride, one for me. It has put the fun back into bike riding and exercising, and is going a long way in improving health and enjoyment. I just returned from a cross country trip in my motorhome with the bikes. Biggest concern/problem was by far the fear of leaving bikes unattended--even with 3 locks.Had no problems with trail closures once out of California.
Very nice new dimensions explored.. all the best for your eurobike participation
Possibly we will see more SAE type rules in the bicycle world and what stays a bicycle and what becomes governed under a different designation. In Phoenix you could drive a golf cart or 4 wheeler on the secondary streets if you had it licensed as a motorcycle. Phoenix also has very wide streets, bike lanes, bike trails. Good ways to use all designations.
Loved the video! Do you have any helmet recommendations? I just got one from the xnito brand and it's not a smart helmet but they say it's very protective
For the U.S. market, and me personally, 100 mile range @ 45 max mph, solid state battery, solid spoke wheels, no more wire spokes, all wheel drive, ( hub motors) or chainless mid drive,( i.e. belt, shaft)
Run flat tires, expansion of dedicated bike infrastructure,
(i.e. charging, bike lanes that will also accommodate 3 wheelers)
That's my short list.
Very interesting. On my latest biketrip through France, I met some people that were biketouring with an electric bike. What I noticed, is that they were carrying way more stuff than what you usually carry when using a non-electric bike. I wonder how they manage with keeping their batteries charged, but I was surprised to see that. I always thought you would be really limiting yourself with the distance you can travel per day, but somehow they manage to do it.
Middrive ebike has very impressive range.
Funny, I just came back from France touring on my ec-cargo bike. I did indeed carry much more than I would normally (even a pair of fold up chairs!!). I didn't need to worry about the weight at all, or the bulk for that matter. I have a twin battery and my range is about 100 miles with that. Charging was no issue at all, simply stay at a campsite and charge for free or a Euro. Wild camping is a bit of an issue though, they are so heavy it's difficult to hide away in the woods.
I figured I would put my two cents in since I started biking again since, o' lets say 1984. I purchased an E-Bike back in february and absolutely love it! Two of my co-workers have since purchased E-Bikes. I guess in my little microcosm, that tells me E-Bike sales are on the rise. The two dampers I see to increase in sales are depressed economies around the world and lack on bike friendly infrastructure, which has been a systemic issue for 75'ish years at this point. Here in Arizona we also have a unique challenge with the heat and conservative governments , which tend to only be bike friendly up to recreation and not extending through to transportation. I am hoping the higher gas prices might swing the pendulum the other way, but the 106F heat is probably going to prevent that.
On a side note, anyone that has ridden a motorcycle by cornfields in the summer knows that evaporative cooling can be engineered. My hope is we will get more innovative thinking in our various governments and work toward solutions to bike, pedestrian, and public transportation friendly infrastructure and get us away from our addiction to owning cars.
good chat. the thing I dont like about these big funded startups is just how unnecessarily proprietary they are making things.Everyone wants to build the walled garden and be the next Apple. In the long term, a lot of these products will be totally useless once they are broken and unable to be repaired easily if the company stops supporting or goes under, and this will contribute to the growing e-waste. Idk a lot of the 'cool' brands seem to be so over-designed. Like normal, reliable bikes have existed for years. Just stick a motor on it, you don't have to reinvent the wheel.
but ma square wheels...
Indeed.
E-bikes require special bike rack.
Amazing man. love your input. SUBSCRIBED!
What's happened to the Valeo integrated motor and gears? I'm expecting a blend of Pinion-like transmission with Bosch motors, Valeo has shown some interesting prototypes last year, but I didn't hear much since.
Have you thought about doing a video about bicycle touring from campsite to campsite? The challenges involved in that such as charging extra weight of gear that sort of thing?I really enjoy your channel. You are very experienced and entertaining.
Ebikes are just plain cool!
Great overview. Subscribed 🙂👍
Good coverage with analysis!
Good video Chris. Speaking of Fazua, will your shop carry the R&M Urban line? I know you are a Bosch-only shop but also a leading R&M dealer - so wondered what your plans were with respect to R&M incorporating non-Bosch systems.
Honestly I'm not certain at the moment. I plan to discuss more at with them at Eurobike. The product is really compelling. I'm always nervous with new stuff though
🚲nice boy we all love your programs, please keep up this great work alive!!🔌
I always enjoy your videos. Informative and goes beyond just the bicycle itself, but the industry as a whole. I notice you don’t really cover bikes from Asia, and I understand that. I’ve been to the biggest Asian country of manufacturing, and safety is the least of their concern! There’s no such thing as an OSHA over there. You die on the job, you just get replaced. But like it or not, their market share of Ebikes is huge because of their price points. All some people look at is price and cheap to get into, then complain on forums about poor quality lol. You get what you pay for. The other end of the price spectrum is a smaller market, I think. In my town, there’s only one bike shop that carries higher end Ebikes, and I believe even they’re made over seas, but to a more specified standard. I would love a high ebike such as an R&M ebike. But I’m not in that income bracket to just out right write a check for one. Maybe if there were more low rate financing options of such a purchase people would step up their ebike game. Just my thoughts as a consumer.
I think that hub motors will gain more credibility as serious rugged contenders - with the big mid-drive brands showing an interest: an all-in-one ‘smart’ hub encompassing drive, gearing and regenerative braking will appear as a sealed unit that needs minimal maintenance and know-how to use.
Good video, thanks. I would like to know if the industry is going into the internal hub gearing more in the future, and also the CVT type gearing more and more? Advantages-disadvantages.
I like the way you bring awareness to me the consumer...kudos
Thank you for this. Great research for the future.