I think the way Star Trek is being written by showrunners for Discovery and Picard fits better with the Mirror Universe than Prime. I'm all for the more grounded approach, but for some Star Trek fans they can't get wrap their heads around some of the more grey-area decisions and behavior being written for Prime Trek universe characters and events.
I mean neither version of the Terran Empire ever made any sense. Because neither version of the empire would survive its infancy. MAYBE the one from Enterprise but even thats a looooong stretch.
@@thiagodeandrade7081 Depends on which lore you go by most of the time the Sith Lords were the rulers but the Empire had a massive administration, military, etc that ran on less psychotic rules. So the a-holes in charge could kill each other all they wanted, but the bureaucracy kept the empire going. Much like even how the US has two parties that "kill" each other all the time but the IRS, Army, etc just keep gong despite the changes at the top.
This is why the Mirror Universe didn’t develop faster. All the future tech they acquired should have given them a massive technological boost. But instead of studying that tech, the people that found the Defiant and other future technology had to hold on to it because of all the betrayal and backstabbing.
Ohhh....the evil "Badgie," whatever the evil Delta is on Star Trek Lower Decks....and now the most evil ones were from the slaughtered crew in the Terran Empire, showing that Burnham is the Matha Frickin Ma Ma's superhero! Can you feel the BURN?!
So she names Landry, Bryce, and literally says “all the rest.” So… the writers didn’t have any more named characters? Tilly, Owo, and Detmer are in the room, Stamets and Culber are accounted for elsewhere. So yeah. The writers didn’t have enough names characters on the show, so they just didn’t bother. DIS can be really frustrating sometimes.
And this is why I hate the terran empire, too much murder for trek imo, but I do like the uniforms in this series & the aesthetics of the ships inside & out
i like the terran empire for two reasons, the first reason being that we are shown so much of a image of humanity as peaceful explorers who just want to discover what is out in the galaxy while this is showing us what would happen if humanity decided to go the opposite route. the other reason is this is the star trek equivalent of the imperium of man from a series i enjoy called warhammer 40k
But I wonder if it makes sense from First Contact on. A world where the Roman Empire never fell (was it ever Christianized, by the way? The Terra seria seem to be little in way of ideology other than power, in which they are different from Medieval Europe or the Roman Empire, under Paganism or Christianity), but it ends up anyway with Cochrane (and all the extras) in Montana meeting the Vulcans?
Just telling you what you want to hear and we know how that ended not to mention she had the tantalas device she could have found the traitors herself not to mention the emperor new detmer was a co conspirator
I think that's kinda the point. Without a common enemy the Terrans will back stab each other and rather than having a common mission for everyone to achieve like with the Federation/Starfleet, the Tarans will turn on each to achieve their individual goals.
@@willie417 fair point. But Vikings did raids due their lack of resources. I'm sure if they didn't invent their signature raiding vessels they'd be fighting each other.
Fall of Rome...everyone was killing anyone suspected of 'acting against the Empire'. Got really bad...anyone with a lick of skill in Politics became a target... Emperors, once powerful, became powerless figure-heads...
People are asking for a series of the Terran Empire. It would never work. There would be such a high turn over of characters it would be ridiculous. Only one or two actors would last the whole season.
this is where the prime universe never makes sense to me they all kill each other in all the prime uni ep at one point so why havent they all killed each other to that point I mean its just logic in all the star trek series doesnt make sense
It's...fiction. LOL Why...do I imagine you in a cave having some kind of mental breakdown? I'm so done with people obsessed with their own pseudologic. Go to sleep.
It’s deeply silly in every series. Have you forgotten Nana Visitor vamping in that skin tight suit as Mirror Kira? yeah I know she wasn’t an imperial. At least the disco aesthetics are good.
No, it's emperor. She's introduced in season one as "Her most imperial majesty, mother of the fatherland, overlord of Vulcan, dominous of Qo'noS, Regina Andor, [...] the *Emperor* Philippa Georgiou Augustus Iaponious Centaurius"
This was so annoying. I really wanted Burnham to destroy all of em. Screw that empire. Wipe em all out. I especially wanted to see her make good on her promise to kill "killy" for torturing her. Her mirror counterpart annoys me cuz u know how she rlly is. So her mirror version is super annoying. Like ur not tough. Know your place tilly. And then burnham really gets brainwashed in 2 ticks. Phillipa shoulda been killed as well. Ive always hated the terran empire. Their universe genuinely disgusts me and i was so glad to hear that its being eradicated in the future.
late, but Prime Michael was raised by Vulcans. i think expecting her to express in a more muted way makes sense. we see in Disco that her tears and crying weren't something she was encouraged to do as a child on Vulcan and Sarek expected emotional control/repression. I also wouldn't be surprised if Michael still followed Surakian thought in some regards. This is mirror Michael though, and Terrans probably don't take to crying well. we can see here in Sonequa's expression that it hurts Michael a lot to kill Detmer
@@Lord_Sunday Well, enjoy yourself. Trek can be measured by what you can show to a 10 year old kid, and maybe he / her learns something from it. There´s exactly nothing a child could take away from this, and i would not let them watch it either, if i were a responsible grown up. But hey, its Trek as any other, right ?
@@kawafahra in TOS, TNG and DS9 there was talk of genocide, racism, r*** scenes and characters tortured. Honestly not a lot of Trek is appropriate for kids.
Funny thing is I would watch a show like this set only in the mirror universe. Normal Discovery straight poops on Roddenberry's legacy of hope and human improvement, showing us if we got our crap in order what we could possibly achieve. To be honest the worst offender is Star Trek: Picard, seeing the Federation be a shell of its former self. Yeah you could find some bad Admirals from time to time in TNG etc but the foundation of Federation's beliefs were eroded away in it just so they could find a excuse to have some Admiral use profanity towards Picard. But I digress, the mirror universe is a perfect place for all that violence and CGI ship fights, plus Spock had a cool goatee in it. Yeah you wont ever get any thought provoking bottle episodes like TNG's Drumhead but at least they could stop screwing up the history and lore of the franchise and still get to be a Star Wars clone since its in a universe that doesn't end up being he one that the long term fans love.
whats the point in this? all the previous shows use of the mirror universe have characters from our universe going over. we get to see them try to navigate the mirror universe. we know the history of it, been explored and explained. this just seems like they've ran out of ideas
You clearly haven't been watching the series, otherwise you'd know which character has "swapped over", despite appearances. I love how most DISCO detractors literally have watched less than an episode
Season 3 has gone down rapidly fast. It's just become teenage girls in space, and don't get me started on 'The Center of Universe' Burnham. It seems even when she has been demoted she still has a hold on those above her in rank, even the 31st century Admiral. It's just become the stage show of complete and utter forced political correctness for the sake of it.
@@willrose5424 It's insulting to you, but it is showing representation to a segment of society that's as normal as Heterosexuals. I appreciate seeing my community being represented as more then cheesy stereotypes.
@@Washuluver87 to be fair I get cringe when I see heterosexual couples kissing on tv and I'm straight. You do not need to have people making out every three scenes to establish that they're in a relationship
No matter what people say about discovery, u have to admit they did a great job of recreating the terran empire
I think the way Star Trek is being written by showrunners for Discovery and Picard fits better with the Mirror Universe than Prime. I'm all for the more grounded approach, but for some Star Trek fans they can't get wrap their heads around some of the more grey-area decisions and behavior being written for Prime Trek universe characters and events.
No. We most certainly do not have to admit that.
@@faded9581 Yes we do, sorry.
@@Tullaryx But they'll ignore the grey area decisions by Sisko or Janeway.
I mean neither version of the Terran Empire ever made any sense. Because neither version of the empire would survive its infancy. MAYBE the one from Enterprise but even thats a looooong stretch.
I love the "Did you get them all?" *stabs Detmer, Surprised Pikachu face* "Now I have"
Yeah that was priceless
Well except for Culber and Nielsen and I think Ariem.
Giggles
You know you're a crappy liar when the Emperor doesn't even need a double agent to know you're a traitor ( Detmer).
It's like the Sith Empire how the hell did you get anything accomplished when everyone's trying to kill everybody
The sith Empire unlike the Terrans didn't kill for the sake of promotion, unless you were a member of the Sith Order, well most of the time.
But what about the Rule of Two, and the apprentice killing the master (like Palapitine did).
@@thiagodeandrade7081 Depends on which lore you go by most of the time the Sith Lords were the rulers but the Empire had a massive administration, military, etc that ran on less psychotic rules. So the a-holes in charge could kill each other all they wanted, but the bureaucracy kept the empire going. Much like even how the US has two parties that "kill" each other all the time but the IRS, Army, etc just keep gong despite the changes at the top.
That's why they need to keep and expansionist policy-- to get other species as slaves.
@@RecklessFables Also, the Sith Empire preceded the Rule of Two by nearly 2000 years.
Man, i want more if THIS Terran Empire.
More killing than the Sopranos.
There isn't going to be anyone left after season one.
@Marcel A. Wouldnt be much happening cause the crew would be trying to kill each other for like 3 episodes.
Me too
they killed just about everyone almost. They should make the Terran empire a series. With Yeoh as the main character.
Pretty much only left Owo and Killy alive.
Nah yeoh is getting the section 31 show
Game of thrones but in space
With 90% of the cast being killed off each season? Sounds like fun.
It would basically be a soprano version of Star Trek
One thing about the terrain empire. You definitely can get rid of an enemy.
They did Landry so dirty in this show. How do you manage to die three separate times?
When the writers hate you .
@Marcel A. You mean prime Landry was much more sweet you could see that she was not a bad girl like mirror Landry
At least she didn't get strangled like she did on BSG.
I was thinking the same 😂 😂
She is the new Sean Bean, needs a role like Sharpe to stay alive.
They all acted their butts off on this episode.
I would love a terrain empire spin off
I Miss Empress Georgeu already can't wait for the Spin off.
Yeah I wonder where & when she went? I hope she reached the 1 that aligned between the Prime & Mirrouniverse. So she'll be fine.
2:42 - 2:52 RIP Commander Landry, again!!
@Atelophobia Rheka Sharma is the female Sean Bean: Her character dies in every sci-fi show she's in...
@@LGranthamsHeir Deserved it on BSG for blowing Calley out the launch tube.
@@roguelead72 Indeed. The look on Tyrol's face when he realized that it was her, she was never going to leave that room alive.
She's just like Jon Snow, dies many times
@@slavicvasenin6685 You mean Ned Stark (Sean Bean), don't you?
Mirror Universe in Star Trek is a like a bad joke. A living hell of endless betrayal and short lived friendships. How can they even survive like that?
Not only that but a huge loss of culture as well as knowledge and experience each individual provided.
This is why the Mirror Universe didn’t develop faster. All the future tech they acquired should have given them a massive technological boost. But instead of studying that tech, the people that found the Defiant and other future technology had to hold on to it because of all the betrayal and backstabbing.
I think we need a series that is just THIS side of the looking glass!
The table...it's a screen, but when metal strikes it, it sounds like stone...like a granite countertop. Subtle brilliance by the sound team.
If you're part of a conspiracy and you give up your co- conspirators, why would Anyone Trust You?
That's why when Burnham said "now it's done" I expected the Emperor to say "after you also kill yourself" ;)
Ohhh....the evil "Badgie," whatever the evil Delta is on Star Trek Lower Decks....and now the most evil ones were from the slaughtered crew in the Terran Empire, showing that Burnham is the Matha Frickin Ma Ma's superhero! Can you feel the BURN?!
I wonder if Mirror Badgey is close to this, or the opposite.
Love the facial expressions. Michelle Yeoh and SMG are great with that.
"SMG"?
@@robgyanisu312 lol Sonequa Martin-Green. Her name is long.
@@robgyanisu312 Sob Machine Gun
edit: not trying to make fun her name, just her role as burnham
There must be no shortage of leather in the empire, alot of people wearing it.
Enough alien races to get it from 😉
So she names Landry, Bryce, and literally says “all the rest.” So… the writers didn’t have any more named characters? Tilly, Owo, and Detmer are in the room, Stamets and Culber are accounted for elsewhere. So yeah. The writers didn’t have enough names characters on the show, so they just didn’t bother. DIS can be really frustrating sometimes.
Machiavellianism is such as useful personality trait.
Useful, not enjoyable.
@@iona2225 it is too bad one had to be a dick to succeed in a corrupt world.
@@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164 Indeed.
@@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164 More like a corrupt universe.
@@donpula6349 most successful people in any career path had to step on some toes to get higher up. I question is are you OK with that or not?
Now this is cool stuff!!!!
how couldn't captain killy know how many traitors were on her ship when she has a tantalus device in her quarter's
And this is why I hate the terran empire, too much murder for trek imo, but I do like the uniforms in this series & the aesthetics of the ships inside & out
i like the terran empire for two reasons, the first reason being that we are shown so much of a image of humanity as peaceful explorers who just want to discover what is out in the galaxy while this is showing us what would happen if humanity decided to go the opposite route. the other reason is this is the star trek equivalent of the imperium of man from a series i enjoy called warhammer 40k
You realize the whole point of the terran empire is to be a earth where the roman empire never fell
But I wonder if it makes sense from First Contact on. A world where the Roman Empire never fell (was it ever Christianized, by the way? The Terra seria seem to be little in way of ideology other than power, in which they are different from Medieval Europe or the Roman Empire, under Paganism or Christianity), but it ends up anyway with Cochrane (and all the extras) in Montana meeting the Vulcans?
Love the shade of lipstick
What an ineffective Empire...
Just telling you what you want to hear and we know how that ended not to mention she had the tantalas device she could have found the traitors herself not to mention the emperor new detmer was a co conspirator
how did they ever mange to achieve anything? I mean like if they're killing everyone, like how could the survive make any advancements
I think that's kinda the point. Without a common enemy the Terrans will back stab each other and rather than having a common mission for everyone to achieve like with the Federation/Starfleet, the Tarans will turn on each to achieve their individual goals.
@@mdxque8393 🤔 Vikings, they stop fight/raiding each others and hit the seas
@@willie417 fair point. But Vikings did raids due their lack of resources. I'm sure if they didn't invent their signature raiding vessels they'd be fighting each other.
Fall of Rome...everyone was killing anyone suspected of 'acting against the Empire'.
Got really bad...anyone with a lick of skill in Politics became a target...
Emperors, once powerful, became powerless figure-heads...
I liked the Terrain empire costumes. Especially the female skin tight black uniform
I would crawl over broken glass to hear detmer fart through a walkie talkie……
📸 🤨
I wish we didn't know who the emperor was..it was a good mystery
People are asking for a series of the Terran Empire. It would never work. There would be such a high turn over of characters it would be ridiculous. Only one or two actors would last the whole season.
This is the other side of the neoliberal coin.
you have grown soft in the prime universe my queen you let Burnham live
i was more interested to see Empress Sato
this is where the prime universe never makes sense to me they all kill each other in all the prime uni ep at one point so why havent they all killed each other to that point I mean its just logic in all the star trek series doesnt make sense
It's...fiction. LOL Why...do I imagine you in a cave having some kind of mental breakdown? I'm so done with people obsessed with their own pseudologic. Go to sleep.
Spheretext
Great way to spoil the episode in the title.
The Terran Empire in STD is laughable. But this is what you get when a show is written by kids.
It’s deeply silly in every series. Have you forgotten Nana Visitor vamping in that skin tight suit as Mirror Kira? yeah I know she wasn’t an imperial. At least the disco aesthetics are good.
" Empress ", not " Emperor "
No, it's emperor. She's introduced in season one as "Her most imperial majesty, mother of the fatherland, overlord of Vulcan, dominous of Qo'noS, Regina Andor, [...] the *Emperor* Philippa Georgiou Augustus Iaponious Centaurius"
Well.....that sucks.
This was so annoying. I really wanted Burnham to destroy all of em. Screw that empire. Wipe em all out. I especially wanted to see her make good on her promise to kill "killy" for torturing her. Her mirror counterpart annoys me cuz u know how she rlly is. So her mirror version is super annoying. Like ur not tough. Know your place tilly. And then burnham really gets brainwashed in 2 ticks. Phillipa shoulda been killed as well. Ive always hated the terran empire. Their universe genuinely disgusts me and i was so glad to hear that its being eradicated in the future.
You are disgusting
Anybody have a big crush on evil Burnham? 😆 What does that say about me?
Eh, Detmer was too shady anyway
Will there actually be a bloody episode when Michael is crying like a baby. It’s getting tedious.
@Johnny Irenchi exactly. Janeway would eat her for breakfast and tell her to man up.
late, but Prime Michael was raised by Vulcans. i think expecting her to express in a more muted way makes sense. we see in Disco that her tears and crying weren't something she was encouraged to do as a child on Vulcan and Sarek expected emotional control/repression. I also wouldn't be surprised if Michael still followed Surakian thought in some regards.
This is mirror Michael though, and Terrans probably don't take to crying well. we can see here in Sonequa's expression that it hurts Michael a lot to kill Detmer
this is not star trek. it's space amazons.
And i suppose in the pale Moonlight is not Star Trek either !!
@@ericpelote998 your'e seriously comparing this episode to the best episode of DS9?
Really? I didn’t realise you get to cherry pick what is and isn’t Star Trek. Discovery is just as ‘trek’ as any other show.
@@Lord_Sunday Well, enjoy yourself. Trek can be measured by what you can show to a 10 year old kid, and maybe he / her learns something from it.
There´s exactly nothing a child could take away from this, and i would not let them watch it either, if i were a responsible grown up.
But hey, its Trek as any other, right ?
@@kawafahra in TOS, TNG and DS9 there was talk of genocide, racism, r*** scenes and characters tortured. Honestly not a lot of Trek is appropriate for kids.
The acting for Burnham is absolutely horrible, i hate this show so much
Funny thing is I would watch a show like this set only in the mirror universe. Normal Discovery straight poops on Roddenberry's legacy of hope and human improvement, showing us if we got our crap in order what we could possibly achieve. To be honest the worst offender is Star Trek: Picard, seeing the Federation be a shell of its former self. Yeah you could find some bad Admirals from time to time in TNG etc but the foundation of Federation's beliefs were eroded away in it just so they could find a excuse to have some Admiral use profanity towards Picard. But I digress, the mirror universe is a perfect place for all that violence and CGI ship fights, plus Spock had a cool goatee in it. Yeah you wont ever get any thought provoking bottle episodes like TNG's Drumhead but at least they could stop screwing up the history and lore of the franchise and still get to be a Star Wars clone since its in a universe that doesn't end up being he one that the long term fans love.
Except no one died. Click bait title.
??? Yes they did
whats the point in this? all the previous shows use of the mirror universe have characters from our universe going over. we get to see them try to navigate the mirror universe. we know the history of it, been explored and explained. this just seems like they've ran out of ideas
You clearly haven't been watching the series, otherwise you'd know which character has "swapped over", despite appearances. I love how most DISCO detractors literally have watched less than an episode
Incorrect. Enterprise had a two-part story set entirely in the Mirror Universe.
So, this two parter in Discovery is continuing that tradition.
Season 3 has gone down rapidly fast. It's just become teenage girls in space, and don't get me started on 'The Center of Universe' Burnham. It seems even when she has been demoted she still has a hold on those above her in rank, even the 31st century Admiral.
It's just become the stage show of complete and utter forced political correctness for the sake of it.
You aren't wrong.
So the reason why The empire fell is that is ruled by women. lol :)
I like Discovery but the producer is testing my patience with those gay guys kissing. Unacceptable CBS!
Tell me on the doll where two men kissing hurt you.
@@Washuluver87 it's insulting and unnecessary. It will never be accepted!
@@willrose5424 It's insulting to you, but it is showing representation to a segment of society that's as normal as Heterosexuals. I appreciate seeing my community being represented as more then cheesy stereotypes.
@@Washuluver87 to be fair I get cringe when I see heterosexual couples kissing on tv and I'm straight. You do not need to have people making out every three scenes to establish that they're in a relationship
Me too