Do Liverpool's new midfielders actually fit?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
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Liverpool have gone early in the transfer market this summer with two marquee signings in Alexis Mac Allister and Dominik Szoboszlai. Both midfielders freshen up a midfield that struggled last season, with Jurgen Klopp's main aim to strengthen in that area.
But the ex-Brighton and RB Leipzig players offer a different playing style to the usual 4-3-3 Klopp would operate, so how can they co-exist at Anfield? Jon Mackenzie takes a look at both players and asks if they actually fit in Klopp's system.
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#liverpool #premierleague #transfers
Mac Allister’s best role is more of an 8 than a 10. Mac allister literally doesn’t lose the ball and his tackling stats are insane. He’s honestly going to be so good for liverpool
And Szoboszlai's best role seems to be more of a 10 than an 8, but I somehow don't mind their numbers being swapped, although I'm usually obsessed with numbers :)
I agree. His ball retention is probably what I'm looking forward to the most from him. Idk why people are acting like he'll definitely play as an attacking kid for us
@@prodigy84bgthe right 8 for pool essentially
Plays as a right 10 and right mid and szobo is perfect For that.
50th percentile for midfielders is insane?
I think hes a mix of thiago and gini, perfectly what we need
Not sure i agree with your take on trent and his inverting, especially considering the example and touch map was in his very first game with the change of system against top of the table arsenal. He ability and awareness to turn certainly improved as the season went on.
I think this role will get the best out of him as he is also a very good front foot defender, interceptions and ball recoveries have always been a strong point of his even at RB
Yeah I didn't get that at all, yes he isn't world class when facing his own goal, but he's competent, and the other advantages of having him in this position far outweigh any disadvantages imo
It's a weird take definitely
Common L by this John character
He said Trent had played rb his whole life which is just a flat out lie. Played cm/cam throughout the youth setup
They’ve been persistent on this Trent thing even on their own podcast. He’s 24 years old and has time to fit into their midfield. They’re doubting the kid lol
It's also possible for Salah to cut inside from wide positions. Szoboszlai can fill in the gaps at wider positions just like Hendo did, to stretch out the defensive line and make space for Salah to either take a shot or carry the ball into the D and make an assist.
You should be a football analyst
The right side combinations with Salah Szo and Trent will be amazing but lack of control and turnovers will be interesting
the video literally mentioned how that is an imperfect solution as turnovers can rip straight through the midfield when the CM’s are out wide
@@distill1there's 5 players defending at the back already it's not the 433
Henderson would drift wide and do a first time cross into the defender or out into touch. Or we'd lose the ball and he wouldn't track runners back.
I don't think trent was particularly bad as a double pivot towards the end of the season. As he started playing that hybrid role regularly ,the flaws were gradually ironed out & he looked increasingly comfortable in possession. But one thing I concede is, his play while facing our own goal isn't up to an elite standard yet, but I think he's up there mentally to work upon it & improve. What's beyond dispute though is, once that turnover to facing the opposition goal happens, trent's qualities are best exhibited. He can dictate play like an orchestrator & control the rhythm of the game. This preseason Jurgen & ljinders will have to figure out how to maximize trent's impact in games. It'll have to be more nuanced than, what Southgate did with trent for England. He's too good a player not to be regularly involved in build up play. To be honest ,despite us having 2 really good new signings, the player I'm most interested about is trent, as he has a much higher ceiling than what we've hitherto seen. I don't think anyone including trent actually knows how high that ceiling can be pushed. We have a gem in trent, whom Jurgen can mould into 1 of the best players in the world in a multitude of ways. On the philosophical side, will Jurgen delve into a more Guardiola like complete game control style, from his gegenpressing counterattacking approach will be interesting to watch. The industrious midfield of hendo,fab & gini which facilitated us to outright dominate oppositions physically has now dissipated. We've a different breed of midfielders in the group now whose best attributes aren't gegenpressing, not to discard them as bad pressers or liabilities off the ball. But whether we transform them into trademark klopp midfielders or change our playing style into one that's more conducive to them is what we'll see this season.
excellent points. this is what should really be talked about, building around trent or not. is klopp going to continue with his gegenpressing football which has proven effective but wears down his midfielders tremendously in the long term *OR* will he rest on his his laurels and give TAA more responsibility in buildup in order to maximise his potential while getting the best out of our new midfielders’ creativity?
@@liezincwe haven’t geggenpressed full time in years. For the 2021/22 season, we were 2nd in the prem in possession, only behind city. Right around the time Tiago came in, we became primarily a possession-based team.
We still have that geggen gear - especially when Bobby, Curtis jones and hendo are on the pitch. But we don’t rely on it the way we used to.
Excellent post.
@@SKa-tt9nm true true. i was just wondering if klopp would be enticed into gegenpressing full time again as during its heyday we still dominated possession albeit in a different way with just constantly winning the ball back. a huge part of modern football is control though so it does make sense to keep on the trajectory we’ve been on in terms of how we play and not just go back to our 2018-2020 selves.
Trent is a wonderful player. But I think having him centrally was a bandaid because we couldn't move the ball through the middle with the players we had last season. Right now klopp would have an interesting problem. Which is better between having Trent centrally and a midfielder who can progress the ball in the same area (Mac/Thiago when fit) or have Trent out wide and also the midfielders. I know what sounds harder to deal with as an opponent.
Personally I'd disagree on a couple of points you'd made about Trent inverting - firstly, he got better at the pivot role as time went on, and became more regularly able to turn his man, break pressing lines, and find space. Secondly, he's not played as a fullback all his life - relatively famously he started out in midfield and then got pulled back.
when has trent gotten better turning with his back to goal under pressure🙄a pivot is also the last line of cover for the defence.trent is poor defensively,doesnt track back and combined with maccalister and sszoboslai who are also poor defensively strong mids will walk through them
@@shawn-ln4cr trent isn't particularly poor defensively, it's just not his job. He got better at it over the course of the last 10 games of last season - I know because I watched them - and the advantage of having two pivots is that multiple people can cover that last line - the defensive aspect is more Fabinho's job and Trent's is to help with passing out and finding balls into the front three, which he's very good at.
Also, some stats in this video should show you that Mac Allister and Szobozlai are pretty good defensively, in particular when pressing, which was our point of failure last season. Overall it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.
@@shawn-ln4crMacAllister has played CDM successfully, true about Szobo tho I guess
@@jackwhite8204someone with sense
@@shawn-ln4cr Trent was bossing a lot of the defensive stats in that last 10 game run since the new system, and he does absolutely track back in that new system. He also doesnt push as far forward either since hes like a deep midfielder not a fullback bombing to the touchline
I wish we go back to 4-3-3 if it's possible. I mean there was something special about that system it used to be intense for full 90 minutes...big teams would struggle against us.... It was just perfect... we all missed it last season.
Can use EUROPA for that heherhehehrr
@@Keysersoze786Liverpool are winners, they’ll treat Europa seriously
@@bobb9677 they probably will win it
I would rather we have bad preseason with these matches.
To make them identify bad areas of the squad, and you know, probably force owner to make new signings 😏
You think Klopp n his teambhave no clue before buying a player? Thats incredibly naive, also, Liverpool dont actually play amymore friendlies than other teams
Jon fully embraced the goblins ROOOONEY
Hail to the King of Goblins
I'm excited to see how they go. Pressing and possession wise they will be able to slot in nicely, especially MacAlister.
Mac Allister isn't an active presser. Szoboszlai is
@@infamouscfc793ith all due and respect to Brighton. He will be asked to do things with Liverpool he hasn’t done before . And pressing is one of those things.
Great video as always Tifo, but i would argue that Diaz could be suited to the wide receiver role you mention. He's comfortable moving wide and very good at dribbling past players in tight spaces, that might negate the issue on the left hand side at least
Yeah more hybrid approach - biggest difference with Diaz vs Mané is Diaz is far more comfortable out wide. He provides width and Mac stays central. Szoboszlai has played a lot wide right so Salah stays central. With Gakpo he sits deeper which fills some of the gap for the counter press. Nunez stays higher and gives an option for early balls into the box. Trent keeps inverting because of how valuable his passing was at the end of the season.
Wide receiver role?? This isn't AMERICAN FOOTBALL??
@@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13if Diaz is the wide receiver who’s the quarterback
this is such a poor example of Trent inverting
Why would you use the Arsenal game as an example when he really only committed to the position change after being down 2 nil
It's also really silly to use one poor example of Trent playing a back pass (which happens from say players like Fabinho all the time) when he had many many many other examples of him turning and beating the man and playing through the lines and even times when it resulted in an opportunity
"Liverpool having an inverted fullback, but aren't really enjoying those benefits you get from that" - they won what 8 from their last 10?? 2nd most points of any team in 2023??
Salah rarely dropped in while playing the box midfield and his goal scoring numbers soared since it's implementation as well.
I'm not sure the personnel on right and left sides aren't directly equivalent. I think we could be looking at more of an asymmetrical build-up pattern.
On the right-hand side: Salah is not a natural width-provider, but Szoboszlai is (he received the ball deep and wide for Leipzig regularly and helped to progress it)
On the left-hand side: Diaz is pretty good at holding the width + his 1-on-1 abilities are excellent, but Mac Allister naturally occupies more central zones.
On another note: it's hard to overstate how much of a talent TAA is and how pivotal his passing can be (his creativity is generational and few players in world football can match it). For this reason, you'd probably be willing to sacrifice quite a bit to accommodate him in a role that maximises his ability. You build a team around your brightest talents, and it's hard to argue how transformative Trent Alexander Arnold is.
Lol. Tifo made a Sensible Transfers video about Liverpool and Liverpool bought the exact players and now they make a video about if these transfers will fit in. Lol
Szoboszlai played RM most of the season so him going to the width is one of his strengths. He has TAA like right foot who can cross extremely well.
he can also play the "henderson" role exactly the same, just younger with more energy. MacAllister plays similar to Wijnaldum, so there's no issue at all if they will fit or not
I agree that the analysis here in this video is rather stiff, to say the least. There is more elasticity in this team than the analyst is giving credit for. For better analysis of LFC particularly, look at Josh Williams work.
Can see Darwin thriving this season with creative midfielder behind him
I don’t see how different support will help him. He always got loads chances his finishing is just non-league standard.
which creative mid.maccalister🙄
12 months ago Liverpool fans "could see" him outscoring Haaland.
@@shawn-ln4crDid you forget Szoboslai?
@@brun4775he had a handful of bad misses but he has also shown very good finishing, it just doesn’t fit your narrative. he will be better with more support next season.
Totally disagree with this, Trent can play the pivot just look at his numbers against Leeds and other teams you can’t just base it on the Arsenal game which was the first time he played in that role. Trent provides the extra defensive legs for Fabinho so playing Fabinho as a sole 6 does not work in a midfield 3, maybe having McAllister and Fab together works better.
If you look at Scott mctominay's number against leeds, you'd think he's as good as Gerrard
@@dhirajbhat4021 maybe he is
@@dhirajbhat4021 Trent is a generational talent so let’s not compare the two, he possesses skills of a world class midfielder. If you look at his numbers beyond the Arsenal game you can see how good he was. Mctominay stats wouldn’t show that, the Leeds game for him would be an outlier.
I am not sold on TAA inverting consistently. As far as the whole team, I think they’re going to overwhelm the opposition quite well but playing with essentially 2 no.10’s and 2 attacking fullbacks is a glass cannon set up. Score lines are about to look like a fifa match.
that’s why a left sided centre back has been a key target this summer. robertson cannot play further up the pitch anymore otherwise we’re defensively exposed. but his best contributions come from doing so. therefore we need a true cb operating in the left defensive half space because their natural inclination is to stay back while in possession. and in this system all the defenders have to contribute in the build up play. robbo, as good as he is, cannot string together passes that will break the first line of pressure like a Colwill or an Inacio. Will be interesting to see what klopp decides to do. I’d prefer if there was implementation of both systems at different times against opposition that foils one or the other
Mac Allister isn't as attacking as people think,he's an 8 that keeps possession
@liezinc what he is talking about is a systematic glass Canon that exposes us in the wide areas. Idk if this is gonna be a problem.
Most counterattack will happen starting in the wide areas and then through the middle. Konate and Robbo are capable of dealing with this.
If we were to set up I'd keep VVD and place another CB right next to him. Just play a back 3 instead of a back 4.
@@Yoyo-sy5kl so you’re saying start trent in midfield?
I can see Szoboszlai providing width on the right like you've said, to allow Salah to be more central. But on the left side i wouldnt hate seeing Diaz staying wide and keeping Mac Allister more central
Bang on, Diaz is much more of a wide receiver than an inside forward anyway. Keeping Salah central and likely our most advanced player (esp if Gakpo is starting over Nunez) and configuring the 8s and wingers as you've suggested is the best way to play to everyone's strengths IMO
In 3-2-2-3 set-up, when CMs moves into wide-midfielders or the "Mezzala" roles, leaving the center of open, that's what Gakpo thrives in. He drops deep to link up play and progress play via smart touches/passes and with his close control and dribbling. The wide CM at the opposite side can also move into the center of the pitch to fill the void - like when Szoboszlai moves to the right sideline, Mac Allister will move to the center. This posts the worry for Darwin Nunez who doesn't fit that set up at all. He will most likely find his minutes coming in at the left inside-forward position, but he will always be behind Diaz in the pecking order. Darwin doesn't have the touch or the control to thrive in the false 9 role. If he plays in CF, he will be out and out off-the-shoulder striker, and Salah and Diaz has to do more of the the dropping back.
All in all - it's good to have different options and playing styles. Just have to make sure they don't go into an identity crisis.
Problem in recent years is teams have figured out Liverpool style and ways to counter (sit deep, no space to run into, let Liverpool have the ball because you can't counterpress when you have the ball, close down the creative wingbacks)
Think Thiago get a hard time for his pressing, he can be pretty effective. There were times last season where he was the only LFC midfielder making any successful tackles.
He looked like he was the only one who cared 😢
He hardly played, he`s finished, too old and injury prone.
2021-2022 season quadruple chasing season Thiago pressed well and did a fair amount of the dog work.
@@markant9534 I think for one more season if you can manage him similarly to the way Pep has managed Gundogan then he could be very useful. Still a top player when he's on the pitch.
Glad someone else appreciates this. So many just write him off as a luxury player because he's silky in possession but he actually puts in a real shift, flying into tackles and winning them cleanly more often than not. Might be part of the reason he picks up so many injuries - always leaves everything on the pitch
Nice video but I have 1 point to add!
We signed thiago because teams would sit back. And so he is there to unlock the defence; like you said.
But that didn’t work as well.
Our 2 new signings can shoot well from outside the box. So instead of always looking to unlock defence that sits back. We have signings who you must close down, otherwise they can score from outside the box
Thiago hasn't worked because we haven't had the midfield to buy him the space and time he needs to do his thing. He's been an artillery piece in a tank battle. Hopefully we haven't broken him by making him play a role he's not built for and he can start showing his talents with a bit of youth and energy around him.
@@DjDolHaus86 In the PL he simply won't get the time and space that he needs to do his thing. Unless he is willing and able to adapt his game to better fit the PL, he is at best effectively a 'luxury player', and at worst he could actually be seen to be a liability at times, especially given that he and the rest of the midfield have been providing the defence with next to zero protection.
@@jaysmith2858 he was bought for that purpose, we needed an elite passer to break down the defensive line once the press had forced the opposition back into their back third. We haven't had the midfield press to force teams into that compact defence since we signed him so he's had to be played in a role he's no good for.
There are a couple of major issues that gets overlooked in the inverted role for Trent formation or the 3-2-4-1 formation:
1- Konate is very exposed in defensive transitions. Especially considering he has VVD he needs to cover for as well.
2- Last season's Fabinho makes them very vulnerable through the middle. Effectively Liverpool will only have Konate and Alisson able to perform their roles proprely in transitions.
I dont see why Klopp cant simply play his standard 433 with Trent in place of Henderson. They will lose Henderson intensity and pressing but gain Trent's creativity and passing. They can compensate for it by getting a defensive minded rb like Pavard or Fresneda.
I really like Szoboszlai but they wouldve been better off focusing on getting a defensive mid like Tchouaméni. Now that its not possible due to a lack of funds, Id go for Tyler Adams as a stop gap and a replacement for Milner.
except TAA hasn't played as a fullback his whole life, cmon tifo....
Pushing TAA into midfield surprised precisely no Liverpool fans as they knew that he had played mf in the academy and was only played at rb to get him into the first team.
@@ajw9533 Tifo are usually great but this is such an obvious knowledge thing and they fluffed it hahaha
made me rise an eyebrow as i thought this was commonly know if you follow LFC. Tifo Should have someone that can verify easily on hand or just know about it from the previous videos they made on TAA. This was sloppy by the script writer.
lmao I paused the video at that point to see if someone pointed out that error. Tbf he's a Leeds suppporter and can't be expected to know every Premier League's player position history.... but that said he mainly talks about 3 players, so could have looked up their player data.
Jon is far too busy polishing his head and yelling about goblins to bother learning even basics about the team he’s covering (and that he so clearly despises). Even when these basics underpin his entire trash hypothesis.
4:45 Trent trained as a wide midfielder before being reshaped into a RB to fit him into the first teams down the line
Most of those cons are addressed by signing a LCB and giving Trent and the wingers more time to adjust to the system.
Salah is a great back to goal receiver - best in the team by far, not sure where this idea that he isn’t comes from.
After the change in system, in possession, Henderson did not stay as wide as Curtis Jones did. Salah was wide right, Jones was wide left, Robertson inside.
So we didn’t play with two wide central midfielders.
I think you got the shape wrong in your analysis.
I don’t think we will play only one way. These signings provide flexibility in how we can play.
That’s it.
As a Liverpool fan I think this was the point of both signings, versatility, teams have worked out how to exploit us which also coincided with injuries to key players and a blatant drop off from others. To be able to approach different games in different ways will be crucial this season, the league has so much depth, so many good players and managers that you have to have options. Even pep modified as the season went on, we have to be able to have that kind of flexibility… obviously it’s easier with the insane squad that city have but these are good steps forward.
This season is going to be mad in terms of competition at all levels from what I can see.
First game of the season i thought we just looked sluggish but it was actually more likely a lack of pressing due to the new formation and system. Hopefully the new look midfield will mean Liverpool getting their high intensity pressing game back
I love how he outright states - "TAA has played fullback his whole life" - when that couldn't be further front he truth. He was a midfielder until he was 18/19 Y.O.
This is one of the clearest most understandable in depth videos i've seen on Tifo since i started watching a couple years ago. Well done all!
Salah doesn’t like his back to goal? Trent drops too deep? Does this guy even watch Liverpool
Really interesting and informative video! I'm not convinced that 3-box-3 is necessarily the best option for Liverpool given our squad. Maybe adding two attacking 8s/10s as playmakers (instead of a deep lying playmaker like Thiago) could help us break down low blocks with a 4-3-3. But this seems riskier for defensive cover. Will be interesting to see which formation Klopp goes with. In my opinion he should be given the opportunity to try a few approaches, even if it leads to difficult patches of form in the coming season.
In my opinion I think the plan has always been to go back to the 4-3-3 system. The only reason Trent got inverted towards the end of last year was because we were completely undergunned in midfield (Fabinho was running on borrowed legs, Hendo and Milly couldn't sustain the intensity and Thiago is a luxury player who needs others to buy hims the space and time) and it was negatively affecting all other aspects of our play. I still think that Trent should be transformed into a midfielder and we should look to buy a more defensively rounded right back though
Agree mate, I actually think Trent will be mixing his position up within games (either sitting in as a cm, or being available out wide as we know him to be) in order to keep us unpredictable to play against
The solution is simple
Sign Inacio as LCB
and we can play 3-4-3 flat , with Arnold and Robbo dropping down to make a 5-3-2 when we need defensive cover.
Trent is neither a CDM/pivot or RB
He was a wide midfielder,RM to be precise
I think what you inadvertently showed when discussing how TAA’s move inside forced the other midfielders wide was also why Gakpo cemented his role in the lineup as a false 9 - that central space that opens is where he needs to drop into to then to link play to onrushing Salah or Diaz. So I suspect depending how Klopp sets up, which is really about how to maximise TAA, will have a knock-on effect on the question of Gakpo or Nunez getting that starting berth up front.
Perhaps also worth noting that Salah really rates Henderson (and latterly Elliot) making decoy runs down the inside right channel to draw a defender so he can cut inside and shoot. How that might be affected if they are pulled deeper and wider will be interesting to keep an eye on too.
Big fan of Szoboszlai and interested to see how it goes for Liverpool next season. On paper, after buying Macallister and having so many issues to fix, it did seem like a strange move but can't go too far wrong with buying quality players, whether they fit or not.
He slots in perfectly as a hendo replacement at RCM
@@porkchop8920 if he was an RCM then yes, I am sure he would slot in as the perfect replacement.
Tell that to Chelsea
He didn't play full back his whole life. Trent was actually a central midfielder in the youth team and was converted to RB in the first team. Klopp has always done this with young players.
I disagree on basically everything LMAO. Salah scored a bunch of goals in this new system and Arnold controlled most games incredibly well, even receiving the ball with his back to the opposing goal because his first pass is crisp af. Dude unlocked a new level of playmaking. Also, the Szoboszlai/Salah situation is not static. They can and should interchange positions, one inside the other wide. It would create a ridiculous amount of confusion, and Arnold would benefit from that.
Maybe the only aspect I agree on that is Robertson. He still is great but he has to run a lot and he is not exactly great when it comes to long balls on his back, but that's it. This system is good and will be far better with Mac Allister and Szoboszlai.
its exactly the wide midfield they are suited to and are playmakers from there, Mac allister did it for argentina and Szoboszlai for Leipzig. then you can have Gakpo droping deep and salah and Diaz inverting more forward for an Arnold pass
Last year with mane gone, diaz injured, nunez hot and cold, teams could target Salah more. With szoboszlai & and mcalister adding dynamism in midfiled, and the younger forwards maturing, salah could get more space.
Yeah I think I’m going to go with Klopp and Co’s opinion of whether or not the players they signed fit the system they are creating…….it’s almost like we shouldn’t just assume LFC is going to play exactly like they always do when they have signed players like Nunez - a true number 9 that we haven’t had in years, Szobosai, a CAM, who we haven’t had in years and Mac Alister, another offensively talented midfielder, again someone we haven’t had in years and TAA playing midfielder and an inverted fullback - something that is very new…..
The sensible transfers video stated how both of these people would work.
Now this is a video asking whether they would work.
Seems a bit weird.
Szoboszlai actually works better in the left advance midfielder roaming in the half space like how he did for Hungary.
Your videos are great. I am relatively new to the world of football but I love it and you have explained the systems so well for someone who hasn’t been around the game all that long. Your video has helped me with my FM tactics 😊. Articulate, well spoken, easy to understand. Great videos, highly recommend.
Thanks for this video Tifo, love listening to John and what he has to say.
That being said I have some issues I would like to raise:
- I might have misunderstood this, but I feel like there is an implication that Thiago playing in midfield was part of the reason for Liverpool's counterpress deteriorating and the team getting worse. I strongly disagree with this notion. When Thiago joined in 20/21 Liverpool had a poor season (still finished 3rd), but that was mostly due to the insane injury crisis of CBs and the pandemic situation. The next season, in 21/22, Liverpool with Thiago in midfield were just 3 goals away from winning it all. This season the team's fitness levels were completely in the gutter across the board, confidence levels were bad, individual performances from many not at the usual standards and the tactics were bad aswell frankly (apart from the last games). So not a Thiago specific problem.
- I am not sure that the Arsenal game is the best one to evaluate Trent's new role and the system as a whole, since it was the very first time it was implemented.
- I agree that Salah shouldn't be holding the width and receiving the ball out wide on the half-way line. He is Liverpool's most dangerous player and this is a total waste of his skills and stifles his goalscoring abilities. But it is important to note, that this is a thing that Salah was instructed to do this season long before the switch to 3-2-2-3 in possession. He also had to do it in the 4-3-3 variant that was played before that. And while he struggled to find the goal in that earlier formation and Henderson was actually the one making a lot of runs into the box instead of Salah, with the 3-2-2-3 switch Salah's scoring increased a lot.
- You say that playing Szoboszlai out wide when progressing the ball would be a wast of his talents and I agree, but I would rather waste his talents a bit, than Trent's and certainly rather than Salah's.
Aso regarding the whole created in the middle through Szobszlai going wide, you didn't mention that Gakpo as a false 9 dropping deep would fill that up somewhat.
- I really think you underselling the pros and overselling the cons in your comparison list! Even though the last games of the season, where liverpool switched system were a quite easy run of games, it really needs to be said how much better they were than before the switch. Liverpool had lost and drawn games against easier and more average opposition, but with the switch they went 10 games unbeaten,winnning 8 of them. The players also looked far more confident and happy to actually play than they had for large parts of the season.
So an additional pro is, that the team was much better as a collective and actually happy to play.
Moving Trent centrally didn't just increase his passing option, it also got him on the ball a lot more. He had 6 out of 10 games with more than 100 touches of the ball and a further 2 with 90 and 91. While he had only 2 assists to his name before the system switch, he made at 7 in 10 after that!
The new system also puts him in a great position for him to use one his underrated qualities witch is anticipation for the counterpress. Trent is really good at anticipating and hoovering up loose balls in midfield ahead of him and that's what he did.
A further pro, as mentioned before, is that Mo Salah became dangerous again. 7 goals (5 nonpen) and 6 assists in 10 games with system switch, when he managed 12 goals and 6 assists in the 28 games before that. That is 1.1 nonpen Goals + Assists per game vs 0.64 nonpen Goals + Assists per game.
Yet another pro of the switch is how it takes pressure of VVD. VVD isn't quite the player he used to be. That Pickford injury took something away from him. Playing with 2 other CBs next to him has rejuvenated VVD. He can rely on others to do more of the hard running and conserve his strength. The system also allows him more time and space on the ball to make use of his excellent passing like his iconic long balls to Salah.
Another point worth mentioning is the resurgence of Curtis Jones in the new system. Now Jones was a player unjustly maligned by many before this, but with opportunities he got in the last 10 games of the season in the new system, he was really allowed to show what a class player he is. He was one of the best LFC players in that period and hands-down their best midfielder (actual midfielders, not Trent inverted fullback).
There is also no reason to think that Mac Allister wouldn't also shine performing in this role.
So as we can see, the list of pros is quite a bit longer.
- I disagree somewhat with the Trent is not a pivot "con" point. As you rightly said, he isn't a regular pivot midfielder, but rather an inverted fullback. But is that bad? Is that a con? I have already pointed out the massive pros of him inverting in possession and you of course have highlighted some aswell. So what is the con here exactly? Fabinho was struggling massivley before the switch, with covering the whole middle on his own. Having Trent next to him did wonders for his performances.
Robertson is indeed not an outside CB, or any CB for that matter. But that is not a formational issue. That is a squad composition issue. Liverpool need a left-sided starting level CB. The transfer window is open. They need to buy one.
I've already addressed the width point with regards to CMs and wingers. Limit Szoboszlai in possession, rather than Salah or Trent. Salah was already limited before the switch. The switch massively unlocked both Salah and Trent.
So we've taken away some cons and added quite a few pros and now the situation looks a lot more positive all of a sudden. The pros now outweigh the cons and not the other way around.
Weird take on Trents inverted role. Despite the team winning 9 games in a row with it.
I think trent is getting better and better at the double pivot strategy and he is playing it with England, also you missed that the gap in the middle doesn't happen much because Gakpo drops as an Attacking mid to receive the ball and play it to wingers or even run through the middle with it.
I don’t think Klopp is going to play the 3-2-2-3. The reason we resorted to that was because our midfielders had nearly 0 output last season. Szoboszlai had nearly the same amount of G&A as our entire midfield. Our only creative midfielder, Thiago was living in the hospital and doesn’t look to be changing his home any time soon. I feel like Klopp will go back to the 433 but with more energetic, athletic and creative the counter press will work this time. Sure, I see Trent going in the midfield occasionally but if you’re talking about a full 90 mins, no way only the fifa fans will think that
There is 1 huge thing you are missing, and I mean MASSIVE!. We don't play with a striker but a false 9 (even in the new system). They are more of a 10 dropping deep which means the wingers can come inside closer to goal and the midfielders can push out wide without leaving a huge gaping gap in the middle since the false 9 will be there. It basically becomes a 3-2-3-2.
So the new system works fine, it is only new and was improved very rapidly in a short space of time as players adapted and with a full preseason under their belt, this new formation will be scary!
Szoboszlai will do a great job playing the wide mid role (basically the role Hendo was playing in the new system) which means Salah can play that right forward role. Not sure on Mac Allister though, he's better as an 8 which might mean a slight tweak where he stays central and the LW stays wider. Who knows, Klopp's cooking and we'll find our soon enough xD
I think there are three problems: 1) Trent in the central buildup, 2) Salah, instead of Trent, in the wide buildup, and 3) Robbo staying back, not playing his strengths.
Diaz is pretty solid in the wide position, so Jones or Mac Allister are not implicitly needed there. Mac Allister can carry the ball and play as number 6. He should be able to drop deep on the left side of the DM (Fabinho, Bajcetic, new signing). If Trent occupies right wing and Diaz left wing, they will have a box midfield formation with the DM and Mac Allister as double 6, and Szoboszlai as 8/10 and Gakpo as false 9. Salah is left to roam freely.
If Trent is still used as a deep playmaker in the central right position, I think Mac Allister will still take place as an option on the left hand side, so the buildup formation can be more like a 3331, with Szoboszlai as number 10, and Darwin or Gakpo as 9/false 9. If defensive unit of 5 players is maintained, this allows some situational freedom. Robbo can push up as to act as a LW, Mac Allister can act as LW/LAM, and Trent RW/RAM, within 3241.
Just to add, the latter 3331 shape is essentially the Cruyff 343 diamond, in which both CMs, Trent and Mac Allister, can readily attack the half space when needed. Both of the players are very dangerous in these areas.
Really enjoying the video so far (around 5 minutes in) but wanted to point something out about Trent . It was an off -hand comment and I'm aware its not particularly important but just thought I'd say, Trent hasn't always played at RB as you say, to my knowledge he played in midfield a lot (if not primarily) as he was coming through the Liverpool academy. I could be wrong but pretty sure his main positions through his time at the academy were CM and as a wide RM, with RB being a less familiar position to him when he started playing it more regularly and for the first team:)
I think Trent inverting was done out of not having any other options and needing to make a change. I think with the new signings they are going to go a slightly different direction. I think klopp has seen how much relying on the press has tired his players out as well as how city’s style of dominating games in possession and passing is going to cause him to shift to more of a technical style which was already in progress just didn’t have the personnel for it last year especially with injuries
The comments clearly indicate people actually watch football not just highlights
They still need a RB that's capable of starting if they wanna use TAA in different ways. I think they were making progress towards a multitude of deals until the Saudi's came in for Thiago, Hendo, and now Fabinho. Still good that Mac and Szobo came in, but what was a gradual retooling might now turn into a full rebuild in the midfield and defense.
Interesting. I do think they’ll stay in the 3-box-3 to start with given how good they looked in it post-Arsenal last year and how much of a boost it was to Trent’s playmaking and confidence. But I also think Klopp will be ready to revert to the traditional 4-3-3 as soon as he sees any issues with it, likely for the very reasons sketched out by the Goblin King here.
Just a small comment. You said Trent was a Fullback all his life and therefore is use to the ball infront of him but he only really became a fullback when he was like 17 before that he was always a midfielder/attacking midfielder.
Klopp is trying to create formational options. It's not a case of deciding on 4-3-3 or 3-box-3 and rigidly sticking to it - it will be about giving the team the flexibility to adapt to a particular opponent or situation within the game. Bit of a strange video.
Very interesting video !!
I haven't seen much on the weaknesses of the new football meta, the box mid !!
Been waiting for this video
I don’t feel thiago is responsible for the decline in counter pressing, how can he be when he barely plays. no it’s more not replacing gini and revitalising the midfield sooner with fresh legs and competition
I don’t see a huge issue with the 3223. Szobo does excellent as a free roaming RCM who does well on the width. Diaz is a great back to goal winger and can occupy the wide space on the left, leaving Mac in the LCM half space in the middle.
I think this analysis is on point, apart from the whole point that he’s missing Gakpo’s false nine positioning.
Which changes the midfield issues in counterpressing.
With gakpo playing the false nine he can help cover the middle of the pitch if the no8s need to go wide. Cant see darwin doing the same. Will be interesting to see what klopp does.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that Arsenal game you're using to push your narrative was the first time he played this position. The video you showed was probably one of his first touches in that role. Didn't he end up getting like 3 or 4 MOTMs after this game in the same position. Perhaps he improved in subsequent matches?
So - quite a bit here to push back against.
Firstly, Henderson pushing wide in possession was very common in previous seasons - this provided Trent the freedom to drift inside, provide rotation with Salah, and often Henderson would be the right-side cover for Trent when he went forward.
There's a difference between pressing and counter-pressing. Pressing when the team is in possession and you're set up in your conventional lines of defense is different from pressing when you've just turned over possession which is counter-pressing. Counter-pressing is more dangerous because it allows you to risk more possession with more attacks knowing you will win the ball back. From that more attacks can be launched. Transition is the most important and it's transition that fell off last season.
Szlobolslai will not go in as a starter. He is new to the PL and it is very rare for players to come straight in from other leagues and immediately make an impact. He will take a season and a half to work his way up to being a starter and that's without setbacks.
I see the m/f being a Thiago(fit)/Macallister - Fabinho - Henderson. Continuity. The biggest adjustments will be how they bring back the counter-press but keep some cover around Fabinho and the back two. That's the role Macallister is likely to play.
Henderson too but he will already have to cover Trent. Szloboslai can't really help there.
"Szoboszlai will not go in as a starter"
This aged poorly.
@@Shrukia Didn't it. To be fair - quite a bit happened since then - Henderson and Fabinho leaving - although it now seems like Henderson was moving to the bench anyway. Was going off the way Klopp integrated the likes of Fabinho, Keita and Thiago into the side over a period of time
Great video Tifo! Love the explaination
Most of the problem last season obviously midfielder problem .injury and aging player means less creativity or attacking output when Thiago and Ox not around and Less Agrresiveness becauee milner and henderson pass thier peak . I thought the same thing when first watch the game with new system that robertson the one need to sacrifise but it can be good with new signing because is not a permanet 3rd CB but much more hybrid role of CB and LM . He do push up do overlapping when have the chance . I do disagree if you Salah is not good when dropping wide but it's actually more liked unlock his playmaking ability more which is underrated ( basically once became the top assister in epl ) He do play more wider this season even before the new system and do well with nunez as CF or Lw .
You can tell a lot of work was put into this video. Really appreciate the content.
Players adapt to how managers want them to play. So a question of whether they fit does not depend as much on the heat map but rather on the individual qualitites that they possess
Not bad analysis. Robbo isn’t ideal but not a weakness, replacements are rare theres gvardial and colwill and we can’t make either happen and I’ve seen small LB playing LCB walker, shaw. We will improve there but the midfield was priority. I think the two additions are amazing signings on paper. You say they’re wasted in a wide mid position but they can do the tight technical passes and create and they won’t be pigeon holed there when a winger stays wide they’ll run into the box. Plus when you have Salah, Gakpo, Nunez, Jota, Diaz we don’t need everyone in the box very hard to score through 10 men. Also we haven’t completely moved past counter pressing but the team and tactics evolve every year klopp has made a point of it there will be another tweak. But yeah solid unbiased analysis with research almost as rare as a robbo replacement
Both Szob and Mac are very competent wide players as well as centre midfielders, so it would be a very effective use of their talents either way. We could see liverpool using hybrids of both systems between different matches or within the same match. It depends who plays at 9, if it's Gakpo then playing the old 4-3-3 will work nicely because he's got similar linking abilities to Firmino, but if Jota or Nunez are playing 9, then the Trent in Midfield and wider centre midfielders would work better to get the ball up the pitch more directly. Mac and Szob also have fantastic delivery from wide positions, bang onto the head of Nunez or Jota.
your analysis of salah not enjoying back to goal build-up is outdated and frankly disrespectful, last two season I can highlight countless occasions where a goal came from salah doing that let alone the chances created from those situations
The fabinho development makes one wonder if mac will replace him in the deeper pivot alongside trent. With sobo being the main attacking threat from midfield
I completely disagree about Trents inability to receive the ball and playing through the lines
I think you're wrong about Trent in the pivot and lack of ability facing his own goal/tendency to play backwards under pressure, I think much of your analysis can be explained by HIS lack of confidence in Henderson ahead of him to receive and retain possession into feet under pressure and a general fear of transition when they loose the ball in the middle 3rd that's cultivated throughout the Liverpool squad as last seasons biggest deficiency. Since this is a quality that has also vanished from Fabinho's game too (while being a prominent quality in previous seasons).
To explain the profile of the new midfielders, Liverpool are also very asymmetrical which I don't think you really understand - Salah is very inside forward but Diaz is very right midfield, when Diaz wasn't fit and Jota or Nunez played wide Jones had to provide the width but with Diaz and when he was back you saw Curtis much more central and making a lot more deep back post runs while Henderson was always holding the width and making the overlapping run outside of salah.
1. Trent hasn't played full back his entire life, 2. His progressive play from the double pivot was excellent - the stats say so, 3. Salah doesn't have to drop that deep as the 2 advanced mids fill that space
You could make an argument for both systems tbh. In a 433, the full backs provide the width and the central midfielders are instructed to hang back and provide cover defensively. This suits Mac Allister in my opinion because he’s way better in the first and second phase. On the other hand, Szoboszlai would be shackled in this system as he’s most effective in the final third.
Solution? I’d suggest Robbo provide the width on the left as usual. On the other side, I’d have Szoboszlai alongside Salah. I think It would be easier for those two to combine and rotate because they’re both good playmakers and provide goal threat. This way, Trent still gets to hang back (Shorter distance needed to cover defensively and still gets to quarterback to some degree)
Civil conversation is most welcome
Robertson can definitely play in a back 3: he's performed well for Scotland in that role, allowing Keiran Tierney to function as a more advanced LWB.
Did this dude even do some research as a bare minimum for this vid? Our whole turn around last season is when Trent played the inverted RB a.k.a the double pivot CM (deep lying play maker) next to our DM. Also Trent rarely went that far to provide crosses. He usually plays between the half spaces if he does chose to go forward. Also Robbo doesn't run the lines we got Diaz for that. Robbo goes forward but usually cuts inside when he's past the midline. Hopefully the rest of the vid is better.
An inverted RB and a double pivot CM are NOT the same thing. The idea that you play inside from a RB position makes you a CM is false
Tbh the turnaround came about cause you had no pressure on you and you got some lucky points at the end remember the jota nonnred card? The Darwin pen dive? It still wasn't a convincing runnanyway
@@Keysersoze786 Haha nice joke! Luck don't let you go unbeaten for 11 games.
@@dundalis False! He basically plays the double pivot on offense. Even if you say yeah what about defense? Still he wasn't dropping back to RB besides set pieces. Konate was the RB/RCB.
@@Keysersoze786no pressure? We weren’t out of the running for top 4 until matchday 37.
Could the “lucky” run of 11 matches had something to do with finally being healthy and our underlying stats pointing to LFC being the 3rd best team in the prem??
Robbos average heat map and average position in game suggests he isn't part of a back 3, I think we need to stop with this idea Trents inverted, His average positon off ball has barely altered, he's still going into those half spaces up top in posession, not sitting in the pivot. All that's really being asked is as you allude to, he picks up the ball more centrally, then progresses it and goes back out right. Once we pass their half way line this really is no different from when hendo would sit in the right back space for him. He isn't playing an inverted fullback role as it was typically know as. I certainly wouldn't see what he does as similar to Lahm at Bayern
You’re saying the inverted full back role doesn’t suit Trent but he went on a 7 game assist spree after shifting to this formation.
That pros and cons literally makes no sense of course trent isn’t going to be an amazing double pivot when he’s played ten games there Robbo isn’t going to play lcb the wingers have been very productive and also it’s literally in front of u Liverpool won 11 out of like 12 games at the end of the season in this new system so the pro is Liverpool win a lot more games control the game more if they get that lcb sorted and dm it’s near enough perfect
If they can make it work as an inverted RB it’ll be scary. Playing in that odd half space in the midfield will keep the opposition off balance
I think they can play in a 4-2-2-2 with Szoboszlai moving in to the right wing.
It is maybe going against klopp's style but it suits the players better and keeping the width from the wingbacks.
Maybe it is a idea for the future without salah but for the defencive structure it is better
@JonMackenzie, you make great points. However, I feel maybe the data here has been slightly skewed to fit the narrative.
Arsenal game was the first time Trent was playing as a pivot, and he was quite naturally drifting to the right half space because that's what he has been doing all his life. But as he played more games, he started staying in more central areas, atleast in the eye test. It would be great to have actual data on that.
i do worry about how isolated salah is out wide when he recieves the ball in the buildup but having szobo in the middle with much more technical ability than henderson will be key. Still some kinks to iron out with the box midfield but Klopp's got a full preseason and i dont think he has any intention of reverting to the 433
I have to heavily criticise the fact you’ve gone through the whole video mentioning defence, midfield and attack talking about pretty much everything without mentioning Cody Gakpo. Anything you think that could be a weakness in midfield I can guarantee he will make up for. Even though he is essentially the new false 9, his ability to drop deep into central midfield can actually give the other 3 midfielders and Trent more options, Szoboslai often moving in front of Gakpo is something I’m anticipating to happen a lot. There will be a lot of play between those 2 players specifically, in my opinion. I really do think that was an oversight John!
I bet they will play both systems, with gakpo playing deeper when cms go wide, and Darwin playing when cm are narrow
we’ve no reason to doubt klopp, idk how it’ll work yet but he’ll find a way he’ll have a plan
you forgot the false 9 role, when either of the 8's move to the wing you will have the false 9 occupy the role of a mid fielder in order to maintain numeric advantage in the middle. i love you analysis but i do not agree with some.
Liverpool isnt going to play the same ⚽️ this year . Szobo , Diaz , Jota Will do the press , Salah Will wait for the Long pass or the defensive error with Mac and TAA switching roles as play makers. They could use Gakpo , Jota , Salah
Diaz , Mac , Szobo
Diaz could play behind the second foward as a mid wing as i seen him do in Porto and his play werent as predictable.
Gakpo Will have more chances to explode and Will open Jota. Szobo Will be the new key player . I wanted Sandro Tonali as a DMF for liverpool , if Mac doesnt combine with the front 3 liverpool Will strugle .
i love that there is a longer list of cons than pros for the new system but somehow that system produced a late season resurgence: 7 wins, 2 draws, 0 losses. how do we explain that then?
The main thing that killed liverpools season was the amount of players injured for the first 5 months , any team but man City would of struggled with the situation as their squad depth is ridiculous.
Finally the first to mention to go back to the 4.3.3. It’s makes total sense, As Both Mac Alister & Szoboszlai are very Mobile in the 8 & 10 positions!!
Trent was a Midfielder before being changed to Right Back so surely he is still comfortable playing in that 6 role to collect the ball and pass it instead of him going deep in defence just to collect the ball and pass it
Don’t think you understand liverpools triangle structure in the new formation. Salah was the one receiving from the wide areas, and he’s actually very strong at holding it up back to goal of u actually watch games. Then szoboszlai and Trent and arrive and create a 3 triangle for interplay.
I think Liverpool’s next evolution is the 3412, with VVD in the middle of the back three, a new ball playing left sided center back and Konate or Matip on the right side. On the left of the pivot will be Mac Allister, and a new dm/Fabinho will be on the right. Left wing back will be Robertson or Luis Diaz and right wing back will be Trent, except he won’t really play like a traditional right wing back. Instead, he’ll invert next to the new dm and macallister will push forward as they transition into the final third. Szobo will play as the cam. Nunez or Gakpo will play as the left sided forward and Salah will be the right sided forward.
If Liverpool hasn’t already scored from a long ball over the top. The structure in the final third would be a 3241 with Trent and the new dm shielding the back three while Trent gets to showcase his passing prowess.
Brilliant video, amazing analysis!
It's possible for both wingers to cut inside and the sticker drop assuming the 10 position so the midfielders could drift wide and still having central pressure
Liverpool need to switch to 3-5-2 quite frankly. With:
*VVD, Konate, Matip & Gomez competing for places in the Back 3.
*Fabinio in the DM Position.
*Thiago, Szoboszlai & MacAllister competing for places in the other Midfield Slots.
*Robinson or Tsimikas at LWB + Trent at RWB
*Salah, Diaz, Nunez & Gakpo competing for places in the Front 2.
That would suit Liverpool's current squad of players, even if additional signings are needed.
Any system where Trent has space is the one to use. Whenever we’re looking to get a goal it’s most likely going to come from Trent or Salah. If Trent isn’t on the pitch we may aswell give up you can’t say that for the others and if he’s playing well we’re 99/100 times going to win the game