Unveiling Medieval Secrets: Dan Snow's Exclusive Talk with Jason Kingsley
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2023
- Jason Kingsley, the modern knight, talks to Dan Snow in this podcast about how we look at history. We discus how our modern perspective impacts on how we understand history.
#historyfacts #historyhit #medieval
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What a great conversation!! Thank you!
I love Jason's background decorations and chair cover: it sets the mood. As if he is actually living back in medieval times.
That's because he IS living in Medieaval times. :)
Fantastic chat. Thank you!
One take-away I have from watching this is that it's coming from a modern point of view, in that the discussion seems to be discounting any view of an afterlife, or that this life isn't all there is. These two men appear to be non-religious, but through my studies I believe most "western" people, until relatively recently, that they have been talking about, did have a view of an afterlife or a greater purpose, whether Christianity or not. And I think it needs to be addressed because it colors the conversation if you think that people were largely running around with high mortality rates etc. and a view that this is all we have. It's a different mindset or motivation or point of view to think that this is not all there is and that there is more to your existence with a God or an afterlife. I think that changes motivations and intentions hugely.
It recontextualizes quite literally everything. While the presence of atheism in the Middle Ages is often underestimated, the modern materialist paradigm was certainly not the dominant one in the period.
That's a good point. Medieval Europe was PROFOUNDLY religious. So their worldview might be very different from ours. In ways we might never truly understand
Really interesting video, Jason. Thanks both.
Cheers Matt.
a really good discussion. Thank you.
I was infantry during the late unpleasantness in Iraq (B Co. 1/502 during OIF07-09). Our experience was that 1%-2% of combat arms units are true killers, and about 8%-10% are both competent and courageous and also get done the job of killing the enemy. The remaining ~90% follow and emulate the courageous men & the true killers (whether those guys are hierarchical commanders or not). Along with adequate training, that's how successful tactical combat usually plays out.
Thanks, really interesting info. My guess is that proportion has been roughly consistent throughout history, hence the ancients talking about 'heroes' as special, i.e. the 1 to 2% killers.
@@ModernKnight I share this idea as well. I think there were times where ordinary men did out-kill those elite heroes, and those times were probably when his brother in arms was wounded in battle and he needed to save them. Or their family is on the next hill over and if he loses the fight, he knows they die. But those times were probably quite rare, and most men were fighting god knows who for his lords, lords, lords close allies lord from Somewhere-over-there-istan for some rubbish field or an old mill, because it was tax time or he needed a few coins. So motivation to kill was probably quite lacking for most men, most of the time.
True. Leadership counts for everything when the rest of the people are followers. There aren't many who can say they have got what it takes, and of those, they don't exactly brag about it, and in fact remain discreet. Things were no different in Hannibal's day. Even though he had elite troops, they all still looked to him for strength, and courage, and also the battle plan they would use. So not much changes over time in terms of war leadership, although today it is mostly done in offices.
This is interesting, and I found that part of the discussion fascinating. Like others have mentioned here, I had the thought that the small group of killers might not necessarily be psychopaths, but might also be the few that were extremely motivated, by belief in their cause, promise of reward, or like a King's bodyguard for example, who would not only be loyal, but well trained, equipped and confident, and chosen for their strength etc. Especially in a context where the majority of the army were drafted from a civillian population to make the numbers up. But finding a psycho or two and putting them at the front, facing the right direction wouldn't hurt.
@@ironpirate8 - In fact quite the opposite. A psycho is mentally deranged, and they have a habit of pulling the trigger haphazardly, and even on themselves. Nope, a trained mercenary must be strong enough mentally to be calm and sensible, and not a psycho. It's a professional job and a responsibility for everyone.
Every time I listen to this discussion I encounter something new to think about. In this case, the reasons men volunteered to serve in the military. Trying to view it from their perspective rather than our Modern views. Something that allows better understanding and more learning.
I love listening to these podcasts while I'm painting! I have a history / Museum studies degree but my emphasis was on East Asia so I love learning more about topics I didn't focus on in school.
One of the best podcasts I have enjoyed for a long time. If you guys could carve out time for another one, it would be amazing! Thank you both 🙂
Great questions, Jason. Exactly the kind of stuff on my mind since I was a kid. Not about big events written down, but about the day-to-day mindset of people throughout history/response to traumas that we can only guess at but have to imagine would be the same even if not captured in history/written down.
I was watching another video about re-enacting history and the person being interviewed said this -
"If you tell me something I remember it. If you show me something, I know it. But if I do something, then I understand."
This is why I like your content - you do stuff so you and we can understand.
That's an interesting idea about the heroes of yore simply being psychopaths more willing to kill than everyone else, though I doubt it was as simple as that. Such traits would certainly have helped in warfare, but the example of Freydis in the Saga of the Greenlanders (a textbook psychopath) shows that to an honor culture, psychopathic traits could also have been seen as very dishonorable (like Freydis breaking her agreements and killing defenseless women). Heroism seems to have been tied to honor, which only overlapped with psychopathy when it came to willingness to kill and take risks.
This was great - thank you both. I hope we get to see you co-host something in the future.
I found your content about a year ago and I have found myself rewatching all of your content and I love the method you have for teaching history. You can see your passions in it. Seeing Dan in a video of yours is awesome
Fascinating listening. How lovely to listen to people I admire discussing their passion. Would happily listen to more! I got involved in community archaeology a few years ago, as my way to try and comprehend the every day in the past.
Historiography is a fascinating subject - the study of how "when" we are shapes how we view and tell other points of history.
Fabulous podcast…you two are so inspiring to listen to
One of the main reasons for the slow adoption of gunpowder weapons was cost. Initially the gunpowder was imported from China. It took a while for Europeans to figure out what the ingredients were. Even then it also took some time to start to be able to procure those ingredients in quantities that reduced their cost. I don't have ready access to the book right now but I read that the hardest ingredient for them to discover was saltpeter and how to find it in large quantities. Then it was discovered that one type of saltpeter, ammonia nitrate, could be made by adding urine to compost inside of a pit lined with smooth stones. The urine would evaporate and the ammonia would condense on the stones while the nitrogen waste created by the bacteria breaking down the compost would combine with it forming ammonia nitrate crystals (of course they didn't know the exact process of how it worked but that it did). Once there was a steady, cheap supply of one of the three ingredients to gunpowder it reduced the cost by over 1000% and that's when it began to take over the battlefield.
Concerning the experience of battle. My father, and all my uncles (11 total) fought either in WWII or Korea. Two of them, I know, participated in amphibious landings in the Pacific Theatre. But growing up, not one of them ever told stories about their experiences in battle. The only stories that got told around the holiday tables were the amusing ones, like sneaking into the mess tent to acquire canned fruit for the still. I think this tendency contributes greatly to our lack of understanding of the experience of battle.
I believe its pretty hard to accurately remember those moments. Its a massacre and a lot of stuff happening, it should feel like some sort of a dream after years of peaceful life. You really just live in that moment, constantly a new moment and you do not have a time to think or remember what happened a second ago or so... Probably people only remember bits of that action. Thats why the slow moments are so memorable to them.
@@S3l3ct1ve I've read a lot of soldiers memoirs, they do remember the bad stuff, but generally are not happy discussing it with people who have not experienced it themselves. Happy to discuss it with others who who have experienced the same or similar, because they understand the experience.
I greatly appreciate your series this particular overview to me is among the best. I am urban and never took anything for granted so have always been awed by what others take for granted, like a hot shower. As I am interested in military history and know I cannot imagine the experience of an American soldier in the Pacific or Vietnam. I also firmly believe that both in WW2 and the American Civil War a number of higher officers suffered from emotional exhaustion.I believe that up into the 19th century a 25% mortality rate through illness, accident, famine and war for any family was pretty regular. I also think it very important that every one knows that homo sapian has always been at least as smart and capable as we are now. Thank you sharing your interests and capabilities.
PTSD wise, I'm sure it happened, but also societies like ancient Greece etc were often very brutal. People would have been used to seeing animals slaughtered, criminals executed etc.
They also often had systems to deal with those behaviours. Physical fighting rings to let the aggression out, the Jewish armies were known for their cleansing ceremonies, a large majority of native American peoples also had similar rituals for before and after battle to psychologically separate a person from the events of battle. Professional armies tended to train men well in how to kill, how to deal with killing, and many armies had a culture of internal support and after war, when men retired they had a system surrounding them so they weren't suddenly alone and civilian again.
Medieval armies might have been the worst. Little training, little motivation, no obvious cultures of supporting retired warriors, short periods of war followed by long periods of working as a civilian, the church and your family being the best support you could get, and that church help might be limited by politics or your finances, meaning you can only get a small bit of help and then are forced to work to eat.
Also they were as good at "othering" as we are. Those guys from the next valley could easily be seen as sub-human. I think it was hard to get neighbouring tribes to unite against "foreign invaders" because the neighbouring tribe seemed just as foreign.
There are some people think that people in the medieval period were dirty and had no sense of life post-Socrates. I loved how, in a video of his, Jason Kingsley debunked that misconception! With that aside, I just gotta say this.
As the ol' saying goes. ''Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'' Though we are, in one way or another, more advanced, we are equally as capable of REPEATING history as those of old. That is why it is so SO important to either take a history class or STUDY history!
History does not repeat but it does rhyme
There have been just as many clean people in dirty times, as dirty people in clean times. Some start clean, but habitually become more dirty. Some learn how to become clean.
Junkies can get clean or dirty. Peasants are never only dirty or clean. People today are cleaner than ever, with more dirty homeless beggars on the streets than 1000 years ago.
@@lifeschoolGood points there mate!
Depends on who is writing the history books, though...
I’ve been really enjoying these podcasts - the enthusiasm is infectious
This was such a pleasure. Thank you for letting us listen to your conversation!
This is deep and emotional thinking, i have to watch this again and again😮
Thanks Jason for another great podcast ❤
That was a fun exchange, thanks guys! Hope to see/hear more like this. Greetings from Australia.
Two of my favourite history people on the same show , can't ask for much more !
My 2 favourite historians. I can listen all month
What a lovely conversation! Hope to see you two talk more in the future. good topics and interesting takes were brought up.
My Grandfather was a Lieutenant of Horse Drawn Machine Guns for British Expeditionary Forces (He was a Scottish heritage South African), setup on a hill somewhere between the front line and Paris in WW1, German Artillery wiped out his entire team and him left manning a couple machine guns for quite a number of hours on his own missing fingers and a gaping shrapnel wound in his lower back until support arrived. He took close on two years in hospital to recover and always used a walking stick after but never complained. He lived on to 91, passed away when I was around 10. They don't build them like they used to.
@@martinan22lol he lost his companions, his risked his life, went through horrible injury and PTSD from shelling, and stayed at his post regardless to defend a city that was not his own and on top of never boasted or complained and you mock him from a keyboard? Your words come from a place of ignorance and cowardice, bravo keyboard warrior.
An inspiring, if frightfully sad and terrifying story. I might argue that they _do_ still make them like that: we see and hear stories of inspiring heroism from all over the world, both in warfare and in everyday life. Just as we also hear terrible, sad, and disheartening stories of woe and wanton cruelty -- it's all part of the human experience. I don't think that people have fundamentally changed, though our circumstances have. It's possible that your grandfather never felt like he _could_ complain; whether from social pressure, upbringing, or a personal conviction. Maybe that worked for him (or maybe he suffered in silence, we don't know), but for many, many people, we have found that being open with and about our feelings is helpful to healing -- especially with strong feelings like grief, survivor's guilt, and fear.
I don't know, it's something to think about.
@@Chasmodius thank you for the insightful thoughts
Thank you for sharing a piece of your life and past. What a great man you had to look up to.
Love this discussion! And the mentioning about a fly behind the visor.
One thing is, we do still have people who live with chronic pain, and in the disabled community the relationship with death is a lot different. There's also many people living with trauma. We know how to treat pain and psychological issues, but much of it is still untreated. CPTSD probably doesn't get diagnosed that often, I've understood it's a fairly new concept, but must have been even more common in the past than it is today. ADHD in our middle aged generation is largely underdiagnosed, especially for women. Just to mention one thing - we are constantly learning more.
For me having heard and read people talk about their experiences with things like chronic pain has also made me understand the past better.
I love learning about history and love Modern History even more. Thank you and much appreciation for your amazing videos, history lessons, and beautiful photos of your mighty steeds. Always eager and look forward to new videos. Stay safe and blessed. Cheers!❤
I was one of those who roasted Dan over his WW1 comments on his HHTV show recently. He made it sound like WW1 was a cake walk compared to other wars. Like giving the army free time and lots of romance would help. Even free range cows get turned into sausages; from the evil of machine guns, gas attacks, mine-layed bombs, trench foot, no sleep, no appetite, and haphazard attempts to cross no mans land and capture the enemy. Dan said if the leaders were dead, the rest could come back at night. True, but how many survived being mortared and gunned down by snipers. And what happens if the leaders don't die, but the men do? WW1 was the first publicity and media war, and as such, it affected a lot more people than any other war before it. So to hear Dan saying it wasn't so bad compared to a few years before, is like saying Frost bite and snipers is better than scurvy and muskets. Men died in the meat grinder, and Dan just wasn't reverent enough with his views of "not so bad." Every war is miserable, even the recent political war Dan mentions. There is no "not so bad" in war. He doesn't need a psychologist, but instead to actually interact with his audience with comments. I'm sure he would find us "not so bad" as WW1.
Anyway, point 2. To say in 1000 years time that nobody will remember that prat Boris Johnson is wishful thinking after too many wines. We already know everyone who ever had a record of their existence, going back to the beginning of records, thanks to Ancestry and Geni, and find my past etc. I traced my family tree all the way back to 210ad. We know everyone. The only difference in 1000 years will be; that we know 1000 more years worth of names; and that we would have discovered and catalogued even more info about the names that we already knew from before.
I'm a futurist philosopher, btw, there are very few of us about, and even fewer job vacancies.
I could only wish to have two friends with knowledge and understanding of the issues and facts you spoke about, would love to just sit and have deep conversations like that and to make my mind wonder. Loved this guys. 👌
I used to play Runescape when I was young, and I loved the fact that it was medieval themed.
I found this discussion a great learning experience. I am female so don't often think of war. However my older brother was military for 30 years and we had many interesting discussions about many topics. This reminds me of those talks. Thank you to you both.
In regards to why press gangs were needed, it is worth remembering that the people being press ganged were NOT the folks who were spending their lives following the rear end of an oxen. Those sorts of farmers' boys were "landsmen" and while if they volunteered the Navy might be willing to make an attempt to turn them into sailors, what the Navy really needed was the able seamen that had spent their lives in maritime occupations and already knew their way around a ship. The British Isles had no shortage of sailors who already knew what it was like to go out and about and see the world. The problem was that it was much safer, less strenuous, and probably more profitable on average to do so as a merchant mariner rather than in the Navy.
Merchant mariners faced dangers from pirates etc and were often heavily armed and engaged in "Get my brown pants" situations..
@@ren-uz2mz I never said that it was without danger, but it was still safer and had on average better compensation and less harsh discipline than the Royal Navy.
An hour goes by fast! I feel like this conversation could have lasted a full day and my attention would not have wavered at all.
I read your comment and had to check back to see that this had in fact been a one hour video.. I was convinced it had been a massively intersting 20 minutes that felt too short!
Here is a token of my appreciation to the content you put out, good sir! Be it pre-recorded or podcast. Cheers from Texas!
Goodness me, that's generous, thanks!
Wasn't it easier to molest kids back in Medieval Times?
need more podcasts give us podcasts !! awesome content congrats
I can get you lads hot water for a bath the medieval way in seconds, literally!
Time for some experimenting, give the hot rock technique a try!
Let's bring back the Edwardian days please!
Excellent-I am totally on board with this-I always wonder about ppl `s individual experiences. am currently writing about someone in the Crimean War-& can absolutely endorse Jason & Dan`s comments, having read private journals-ppl DID suffer shock, & all the range of emotions, & I have written evidence for this. I would also offer this as an "Industrial War" in many senses.
ppl didn`t necessarily talk about it, understand it or even recognise it tho- & "rationalised it". Lord George Paget`s writing is interesting-he survived the Charge of the Light Brigade-his description is fascinating. Some writers commented on the "blood lust" of the Brigade as they reached the Russian guns-hardly surprising, given the circumstances.... you would hardly be calm & composed after that ride....
also you "have" to rationalise to an extent, or you would completely lose it & go nuts-this is evident in some of the diaries...tho, as Jason says-ppl were "used" to seeing blood, butchery, dead animals, & dead ppl. None of the diaries, however stray much into actual descriptions-they almost always stop short. As do all the paintings & photos of the period.
Great conversation, thanks!
Our pleasure!
I am really enjoying these podcast interviews, I certainly hope you will continue to do more in the future.
When I was a kid I always dreamt of magical glasses, so when I put them on I could see the past of the location I'm at. Goind down the road to the town and with a push on a button seeing what it looked like here 70 million, 3000 or 500 years ago
Such an insightful conversation. I could listen to you guys all day!
I love Dan Snow and his channel. Very enjoyable listen!
Great podcast!
As for some of the history of space exploration, I can recommend the book Dr Space Junk vs the Universe: Archaeology and the Future. It was written by space archeologist Alice Gorman. I didn't know space archeology was already a thing until I read this book, and I found it brilliantly interesting!
Fascinating exchange of ideas. Particularly regarding warfare.
A possible exception to the unwillingness to fight would be when one's home/home territory is at stake.
im 30 years old ive been in chronic pain since i was 17 years old it is hell and suffering but im glad i got kind people in my lofe
A friend if mine had a wasp get in his motorcycle helmet. It crawled up in front of his face. He almost dumped his bike in the panic.
A very good podcast, I listened with great interest, even more so because we come from the same cultural background, but from two slightly different worlds. Until 1795, our political history was more or less similar (well, we missed the religious wars of the 16th century), and then everything that happened in our country was a fight for independence. This seriously changes our perspective and makes your conversation even more interesting for me. But one more thing that is worth remembering - it is difficult to understand the way of thinking of our ancestors without taking into account the eschatological perspective. You, in post-Christian Europe, are increasingly distant and more alien to those people for whom life did not end with death and their earthly fate was controlled by God in whom they believed. If we do not remember this all the time, everything that is said about people in the political and social history of Europe will always be very incomplete.
11:00 Apparently small communal bath houses with a simple hot water system were quite common in medieval eastern Europe, even in remote and poor places.
Interesting discussion. Thank you both.
How's it going with Mr. Dibbs, Ghost, Warlord and Napoleon the mule, Jason?
They're all well and happy
Can this become a series with you two? Brilliant.
That was good.
This is great. Thank you
More like this please.
Nice to have the “this is what happened” type history but also great to see knowledgeable, interested people talk through the speculation.
Thank you for your work. Could you advise any books about Grand Duchy of Lithuania. I'm from Belarus and we have nothing there. Sad story.
On the subject of historical PTSD, I recall watching a documentary about 15 years ago in which they speculated that some of the purification rituals that the Hebrew men would undergo after battles and before they were allowed to return to their communities were actually an effort to treat their trauma before they were let loose on their unsuspecting families and friends. That's a single example, but it has always stuck with me.
That's interesting because while the guys were talking about it, it occured to me how much religion may have provided some respite for warriors who had been effected by conflict in that way. In the west I could see the Catholic confession practic or even retiring to become a monk might be a way that men with PTSD as we know it today might seek support.
@@Huscarle09 Like Brother Cadfael, who after returning from the crusade became a monk and grew medicinal herbs 😃
Really insightful conversation! Videos like yours remind us that people have always been people and thourally human in a way thats so much more tangible than old books and pictures drawn in a manuscript from years and years ago
I've found a good night's sleep really gets rid of the shocking sights and sounds from the memory. The problem with industrial war is that one sometimes has few opportunities. Hence the increase in 'battle fatigue', sometimes for years.
I could have listened to this all day
Wonderful interview 😄
I know I am late here, but I love old books of remedies. One of my top remedies is for the Master of the House, who has a cold , to stand in a basin and have his maid pour cold water over him by 3 jugs. I crack up laughing any time I think of it. From the 17 hundreds lol. Edit I just think "revenge" :)
Loving these!
I know Dan snow. Hes on history/military channel here in us
The BBC are truly expert when it comes to speaking and never saying.
Excellent stuff, thought provoking, non dusty and real 👍🏿 thank you
The Gettysburg multi loaded rifle was probably not because they didn’t want to kill Johnny Reb but because they forgot that they hadn’t discharged their pieces before loading again.
I like the title of this video. No attempt to summarise the topics of conversation. Anything these two talk about will be worth listening to.
Your discussion of James the 2nd reminded me of the old poem For Want of a Nail. How many times in history (or just ordinary life) might a great shift been made by some seemingly insignificant factor that went unseen and unrecorded? Hmmmm. . . what is the history of mediaeval horse shoeing anyway?
great talk!
we can see the "psychopath dynamic" very well in the miniseries "shaka zulu". actually you'd both enjoy revisiting it, and the history of its production! i think itd be interesting to compare that with the new "shogun series" coming out. both well documented historical english encounters with essentially unknown civilizations. thanks!
You learn to live with chronic pains Dan. You have no other choice. I feel something is missing on the few occasions my shoulder and elbow and knees and hips do not hurt, I feel something missing. My pains are from Viking Fighting Reenactment.
Njal's Saga has an example of PTSD, I am considering researching and writing an article about PTSD in the Sagas and early histories.
Strong collab!
"In 500 years no one will remember … Boris Johnson … Donald Trump … Vladimir Putin … President Xi"
On the contrary. I think in 500 years they very much will be remembered. They're every bit as important to world history as figures like Henry VIII or Catherine of Aragon or Ivan the Terrible or Atahualpa. People who are heads of state or heads of government get remembered.
I am sure that PTSD always existed, but not the awareness of it. People didn't precisely commit suicide either, perhaps a few, but they managed to "survive" as estranged human beings. I can say all this because my father was precisely that: a PTSD man from the Spanish civil War who ended up becoming a psychopath, much like many men In Spain that I also knew; in fact, everybody had PTSD ! and you had no choice but to follow the standards of your society as best as you could in those fascist conditions - or being imprisoned and killed. I saw how people both highly intelligent and not so, were swallowed up by ignorance, in ignorance and fascist ideals or fears! worth exploring
To add to the bit towards the end, warfare in the past (or in various other occasions) certainly seems not entirely about efficiency, the industrialization or perhaps even the rationalization of it. A deep examination of case studies of various periods where you see push back (whether good or not) against things like gun weapons, professionalization, crossbows, medicine, etc. may reveal more to us about the mentality of historical people, traditions, world views, etc.
42:46 "Can we just not kill each other?" Lindybeige did a video discussing exactly that. About 90% of soldiers deliberately miss the enemy...
I think your hypothesis about there only being a few psychopaths truly engaging in warfare incrementally moving away from the slaughter and more into a "command" role is absolutely correct. I'd like to extend that hypothesis by indicating the next step in that evolution; the modern politician. Notice how those making the decision to go to war seldom pay the price for it?
Not only in ancient history, but also in recent history there are people today who have witnessed changes in the ways that individuals/communities have carried themselves. Personality-wise, among other things. 'different energy' is also a different perspective.
I wonder if people who enjoy modern fantasy-media are 'detached' from things that other people, who weren't/aren't detached from those 'things', wouldn't find entertaining or interesting (fantasy). Such as the adventure of LOTR is an adventure and not a chore.
"Don't slay the dragon, befriend the dragon."
The more we change the more we stay the same. We're humans we can do nothing else.
If my reading of historical fiction is correct, those Greek psychopaths were called "Killers of men"
If you have time for reading historical fiction, I recommend Christian Cameron. He covers quite a lot of Greek history in 3 series, and also a couple of periods of medieval history. As a re-enactor, he includes lots of tit bits about ordinary life.
His latest books under his nom-de-plume of Miles Cameron are basically a retelling of the Bronze Age collapse, with added magic and real gods.
"The heroic archetype is the psychopath." Hmmm.
In better writen historical fiction, some authors do explore the effects of the aftermath of battle, what survivors experience, and the effects of various unsavory aspects of pre-modern life.
As to pain management, there were some methods. One hears about opiates in ancient Greek and Roman contexts. It seems likely that they may have been available to the wealthy and well connected (at least to those who weren't convinced that suffering was good for the soul). The aspirin compounds available in willow bark were known to some. Alcohol was common to all appearances. There were likely other remedies that we don't hear about today. However, most of what is mentioned above would also have mind altering effects, which might make a person prefer the pain in order to get work done...
Lindybeige have a video about PTSD through history, he reads some account from ancient Greece
I want to believe that the average person doesn't really want to hurt or kill others, and might be inclined to "fake it" when battle commences (and we have evidence that this does happen), but at the same time I know too well how susceptible we humans are to 'mob mentality' and dehumanizing the "other." We are social creatures, and we look to our friends and comrades to inform how we should feel and react to situations -- in the case of a medieval or ancient battle, when faced with an armored foe wearing the other side's colors, I can all too well imagine wanting to protect my friends and/or follow what I perceive to be their lead (when they might be following mine!) to try to kill this creature of danger that has approached me aggressively. It might not even occur to me that they are another human person like me until afterwards.
...
Also, on PTSD in the ancient world: I always wondered (and I'm sure the idea was planted in me by a professor or teacher once upon a time) whether the myth of Hercules that includes his madness and killing of his family wasn't representative of the kind of mental trauma that happens to warriors -- the same kind of sad story that still plays out today?
MOAR PLZ!
"Should I have included Current Thing?" 4:22 Really Dan?
I think the decline in child mortality (very recent) must have made a huge difference to people's lives and so had a big impact on the cultures that experienced it. But I haven't seen it discussed.
Some of the soldiers who enlisted in WW1 probably did believe it would be over quickly.
Personal theory (only one subscriber to it); Socrates (well known as a good soldier) reads like (in Plato's presentation) someone with PTSD.
Those in 500 years - maybe amazed by how financialised (money dominated) our lives are.
Really a fun conversation. Though it would've been even greater if social economics was part of the topics.
For example, would peasant levies really care to do stuff with no pay and meager food? They'd have everything to lose, even their farm tool modified flail or pitchforks, while the nobilities wearing heavy armor wouldnt care too much about the hits from an untrained peasant.
Levies won't even get the loot I recall, so if I'm drafted there I'll be constantly looking for opportunities to do absolutely nothing and just hide in corners, and try to get as much from the baggage train as possible
Interesting arguments and nice to listen do. Please make a follow-up.
I do disagree that a sense of “fairness” was the reason for the delay in the adoption of firearms. I think it was more a logistical and early tech flaws challenge that caused it. And even if there was a moral objection to firearms, I would argue that “chivalry” was just a pretend argument. One knight amongst 10 peasant levy, is basically a gamer using an "exploit” on top of living the “pay to win” strategy. Then comes the free for all firearms game update and that chivalry type starts wining about not winning that hard anymore.
Sure, it is not all black and white with the nobility of the medieval ages, but please consider that the technological advancements basically removed gradually the ability to create an exclusive warrior class and eroded the monopoly on violence, which is unfortunately the only way to convince that upper class who has the monopoly to make space for political participation i.e. democracy. What worries me way more is that the contemporary technological advancements more and more again centralize the monopoly of violence and is now chipping away on democratic ideas. I don’t think that people really understand the intertwined relationship between the individual rights and freedoms and the ability to exert pressure up to violence to ensure it is retained. Well… I’m trailing off topic.
People will remember who Charles V was, but no artist of today will be any more famous than (major composer of the time) Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina is now.
The reason why they still had to force people into e.g the Navi was probably families. The families were dependent on their members and as a healthy jung adult leaving the family would probably be hard on them.
Woaaaahhhh!!!
The two best historians!
This is awesome! Can't thank you enough Modern History!!