Well my 111 Chief in gloss black checks my boxes, it’s stage 1’d, runs great, has plenty of power and sound, ands it’s metal, no plastic 10k crap bolted all over it Oil change every 5k and that’s about it, 15k brand new Harley priced me way out and the local stealership is slimy
And that's great. Particularly with motorcycles, you have to get what fits you, be it price wise or fitment wise. However, you can't shit on a brand just because you can't afford it. I can't afford a Porche, but I can still appreciate what they do.
But the equal to a chief would be a street. Bob which has a 114 and it's also 15K. So I'm not quite sure how hardly priced you out here because you literally spent the same amount of money and most Harley dealerships will offer you a stage 1 upgrade for free when you buy the bike so that would still be included and the street Bob definitely isn't covered in plastic
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews not Socal, no free lunch here. As far as the street bob, it’s a beautiful bike. Seems as though my comment is taken as Harley bashing- it’s not, the dealer was slimy as was the Indian, just less slimy- 111-114 who cares in my opinion, both are 2 wheeled rocket diesel trucks. Harley kept pushing me to the plastic 35k bikes because I have means and credit- if I did it over, I would have looked a little hard for a lightly abused Dyna from a private seller, but so be it- my Indian though boring and black haha fits my tastes and is simple (relatively) and I can work on it - appreciate your channel
@@BikesBeardsAndBrewschances are he got priced out in fees that are separate from MSRP. For example, I’m deployed right now so when I saw the Street Glide was down to $25,999 MSRP I called my buddy back home and asked what he’s seeing them go for out the door at the local dealerships and he told me he hasn’t heard of one leaving the dealerships for less than 30. And for most people in this current economy, that difference in MSRP and out the door cost prices a lot of people out. Which is why I think it should be a law that vehicle manufacturers in general cannot charge more than 2k over MSRP for a stock vehicle.
As a Harley rider, I am so indebted to Indian motorcycles for pushing Harley to be better! Let's face it, if Harley had their way, we would still be riding 88ci Evos that weigh 900 lbs, 24 degree lean angles, and did 0-60 in.......it will get there. Just be patient. Then Indian came out swinging! Pushed Harley to inovate, get better, be more modern. Then Indian released the sport chief and went back to bed. WTH Indian? Its been a couple years now since you've bothered doing anything. I mean anything! Did you run out of ideas? Run low on finances? Stop caring? Just please don't give up and throw in the towel. We need you!
Absolutely! And I mentioned that in the video competition breeds innovation so I don't want to see Indian go away. I don't want to see them go out of business. I want to see this fight heat up so we're getting the best out of both companies
HD haters forget that there has always been a Davidson family member on the board since it's inception, even during the AMF years before Davidson bought the brand back. Once Indian was disbanded, that was it, none of the original owners stayed on and Polaris bought the name 50 some odd years later. Read your history. Educate yourself.
😂 NM Indian went straight outta business, and is now owned by Polaris. Polaris hasn't even made a reliable 4 wheeler in a decade. You better hope those Indians use better bearings and linkage than the newer Polaris 4 wheelers. They are junk.
No one's forgotten that the big difference is Harley's remained in business and Harley is also always had someone name d Harley or Davidson on their board. Can't say that for Indian Indian has literally gone dormant for 20 to 30 years at a time before someone buys the name and starts it back up. And really the only thing left that is Indian is The name
And let’s not forget the 33 emergency loans totaling 2.3 billion dollars Harley got from the government, the cheap parts from other countries use to build their bikes, plus the outrageous out the door prices the dealers hit you with…. Could go on but I digress….
I bought my Indian FTR and Pursuit to ride the twisties in my area, like the Dragon, Moonshiner 28, the Snake, and other twisty roads with names, that the flatlanders come here to ride on their vacation. I had no idea they were boring. That's news to me. I guess people buy motorcycles for different reasons, but mine was to ride, not to color. I outgrew coloring books a long time ago. I went with the FTR because Harley just couldn't get it together with the Bronx. It was a good decision. Ride safe. Peace.
The ftrs are really cool, although there's not a really huge difference between them and a Honda cbr1000r so it doesn't help Indian who normally carries that whole stereotype of being a Harley rip-off which I do not agree with. But yeah, the FTR really does look like a rip-off. That being said, if that's the ride you like then that should be your bike and no one else's opinion should matter. Hope to see you on the dragon sometime
@BikesBeardsAndBrews LMAO!! Rip off of a CBR1000r? That's funny 🤣. What Harley model does the FTR rip off? And yes, please watch for me on the Dragon. Please move to your right as much as you can so I can pass. Or just use the pulloffs.
@@lostinspace013 There has literally been every major brand in the states since the beginning of time. As far as the dedicated cruiser market, HD is still on top, and not by a little bit. So I don't know what brand you think the states aren't used to.
@@BlinkingKillswitch Harley runs on marketing. It's like Glock pistols. It shoots, is quite reliable and popular, but it was the first "light" polymer pistol and therefore made a name for itself 30 years ago. There are TONS of better guns than the Glock today, but for a lot of people the Glock is still the best. Are there reasonable grounds for this ? NO. But this is the power of marketing. It will take a whole generation for the people for whom Glock was of great quality to simply die. It's a bit like that with Harley too. For the older generation, Harley is the only right cruiser. For the younger one - not really. It's just one of many bikes.
Man I think Indians best attribute besides the fact that they make good bikes is they forced HD to innovate and update their bikes. I laughed out loud at the names! Good video Ben.
I’ll take a turd brown “Indian Runner up Sport, Sport”…..Indian is trying but, yeah they need to not become stagnant. Im a big fan of their touring bikes and the FTR is a blast to ride but, now that HD is stepping up Indian needs to answer.
I wish Victory was still around. I always preferred the looks of them over Harley. Not to mention that Freedom 106 is without a doubt the most beautiful modern V-twin ever put into a motorcycle. I think Indian is knocking it out of the park though with their new bikes. As far as changing up their bikes and suspension there really isn't any need to. They still have the better suspension, brakes, and performance right now. My local two dealerships can't keep the Challengers in stock, and have sold 3 of the Elites before they even hit the showroom floor. You walk into a Harley dealership and there are a lot of 2023 models still on their floors. Can't say that about Indian right now.
I absolutely loved victory and I've said it many times before even in videos. If victory was still around I would be on a victory, not a Harley. That being said, comparing what each manufacturer has on the floor is a little rough without knowing what each manufacturer produces. For example, we do know that there were over a thous and Street glide and road glide cvos made in 2023 but there were only 125 Challenger elites produced in 2023. So of course their sales floors will be emptier.
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews Polaris has never massed produced their special edition motorcycles, going back to the days of Victory. I think it is a smart move on Indians part to not do it. It makes that Elite special edition all that more special. Slim chance of you running into another one out in the wild, while with the CVO you'll run into a handful of them. Just my 2 cents on it.
As soon as I read the title, I knew this was gonna be one of your classic videos. Your bread and butter, the videos. You do so amazingly well, the videos that ruffle and needless amount of feathers for seemingly no reason.
Always appreciate your videos. Indian did a great job when they restyled the motorcycles. They did keep a couple models with the valenced/skirted fenders and the ugly round top bags for th eones who want that. I've owned many H-D's over the years. Indian just announced a bigger PowerPlus engine. I purchased a 2020 Chieftain Elite, then a 2022 Pursuit Limited Premium and then the 2023 Pursuit Elite. I said H-D would have to do something amazing to ever get me to look their way again because I love the ride and power so much on the PowerPlus 108 with the Challenger platform. H-D finally stepped up with the new bikes. New technology, safety features built into most models without paying a lot extra for it and on top of that actually lowered their pricing.
It will be interesting to see what Indian brings about from the looks of it. It won't be till model year 2025 so here's fingers crossed that they step up even more and make Harley step up even more as well
You make some good points, but Harley has priced the middl class rider right out of the market. There's arguments on both sides of the fence. Good stuff, Ben.
@@speaktruth247 Say it louder for the people in the back. I don't see the middle class running around on the Challenger or Pursuit Elites. Or any Indian, for that matter.
You know I've made this argument a few times saying that Harley is pricing out the middle class but then when I actually sit down and put Indian side to side with Harley and you should try this as well. If you're going one for one on their models everything's right around the same price. So to say Harley is pricing out. The middle class is saying Indian is doing the same
@@BlinkingKillswitch Well, it takes a while for the "Kool-Aide drinkers to pay off their 7 year $700.00 per month H-D loans, but fear not, they are slowly but surely coming around.
@@BlinkingKillswitch Harley has the bigger market and has for over 40 years. The biggest difference though is that there are way more younger people on Indians than on Harleys. Also most Indian Dealerships can't keep the Challenger, Chieftain or Super Chief models in stock. They are selling as fast as they get them off the truck.
Search any Indian dealership in New England and I guarantee that's not the case. Hell I can still find the Indian challenger elite on one sales floor in Massachusetts
Your right about the 4K price increase from 2020 to now of the Challengers which are basically the same bike...But one thing to add...The price increases have been from Indian owners R n D of the problems in the electronics and infotainments....Indian had to do alot of fixing which translates into rising MSRP costs Indian charges...
Yeah, but that's not very helpful. You're supposed to sell a functioning bike to begin with, so if you put out something that's defective and then charge me for you to figure out how to fix it, that's pretty shady
I honestly like the way the Indian gas tanks look. I'm not going to complain about that whatsoever. Although that's all in the eye of the beholder so I get it. As for their fairings, they are bigger and chunkier but they are more useful like their Challenger. Those glove boxes can hold a small car. They are so huge
Dude the naming convention is something I hadn't even realized. That's hilarious. Also I'll die on this hill bit the best bike Indian has is their Razor collab, the eFTR Jr. 😂
Great topic. I agree they were putting pressure on HD, but seems to be backing off a bit. They are already talking about next years power stroke or whatever it is they call thier line of motors. Thats not going to help the 24 sales. Most of the metric market does the same thing with bikes. Just keeps pushing out the same bike year after year. Maybe a color change from time to time. They reserve those changes for the top tier. Congrand on 5k!!!
That really is part of the problem with metrics as well and I've made fun of that before, especially with the Honda fury. They just put out one every year and the only difference is it has a different color. Sometimes they don't even change the color for 2 years in a row it was yellow. Hopefully Indian doesn't start going down that road because they do put out good stuff. They just need to get their foot back on the gas
Which is a shame. I do believe they have a good product and let's be honest, the better they sell, the more competition they'll be for Harley and the more Harley will want to push the limits to get better
I think where Indian shines is with their smaller lower-priced bikes. After the death of the Evo Sportster it seems the Indian Scout Rogue 60 is one of the few bikes out there really filling that void. I think I'd much rather have one of those Indian engines than a Revmax engine, even if the prices were the same. As for colors a lot of us black is the preferred color so I'm fine with the colors. I've already started up the ladder with bigger and heavier weight. The grass isn't always greener. I've given up on chasing displacement and the weight that comes with it. Turns out sometimes a ligher bike in a classic displacement is more fun. There's also something to said about the reliability of an engine that's been in production long enough to work out all the bugs. I'm fine with not having the newest engine or a lot of tech, actually I prefer it. I also tend to keep my bikes for a long time so I'm already not looking to trade in over updates.
I agree, it does seem like Indian is aiming more towards the smaller lighter weight market. And I also agree I would take a scout over one of those new sportsters any day I've mentioned in past videos and I think the new sportsters are absolutely hideous looking
I mean I don't fully agree with this statement only because there's only so many different ways. You can make a bike look different and tons of manufacturers have baggers tons of them have fixed fairings ton of them have non-fix fairings some of them have lightweight cruisers I think it's the guts that matter and the guts that make up an Indian are way different than a Harley
@BikesBeardsAndBrews oh no, they definitely wish they were Harley. My local Indian dealership has 4-5 bikes on a good day. Usually, 2-3 on the floor. There are two Harley dealerships in town and both are overflowing with bikes.
Intresting take about color being the big thing. The big draw to me was that the online prices were posted and the dealer advertised 1500 off the MSRP. Harleys website said "contact for details" under price which just means you're not gonna like what they want. End of the day I got an Indian for below msrp as the otd price (including tax and title). Wouldn't call my bike boring, but I don't think I wouldve been bored on a Harley either.
As for prices, it does get rough. Honestly, if you're at a dealership that's doing like monumental markups like that, just get out of there. That's a horrible place to be. I know dealerships around my area have actually been committing to the MSRP price, which means you can just go to the Harley website and see how much you're going to pay and I think that's pretty awesome
my buddy complains about the electronics on the bike because you can not adjust anything like you can on the new HD's/Pan Ami have a customized mode on mine that it never comes out of unless I go to "offroad +".....I think HD has surpassed them in the electronics dept.
I know at least three people and Indians two of them are on ericold and one of them is on the liquid cold and all three of them have had electrical issues and they've had other issues within the engine and it's kind of mind-blowing that and when they do have these issues their bike is out of commission for months at a time. It's kind of insane
Frankly, as far as the cruiser market goes, these last few years have been boring. I don't know what the future holds for HD and Indian, but at this point it doesn't look great. If something crazy does happen within the next few years, this era of HD and Indian will probably be looked back on as the one of the most boring times in their history.
I don't know. I mean I do have my issues with the new Street glide and road glides that came out but overall I think they did a really good job on them and they are moving forward. As for Indian, they normally do a great job. They just seem to have backed off for a while and hopefully they get out of that mindset and get their foot back on the gas
Point on Paint - yes it is true, saw the Fast Johnnie Road Glide and after trying NOT to buy one from April thru October I succumbed in October and picked up a FJ RG ST, Love that STUPID PIG. Also have a Challenger Dark Horse and it is truly awesome. Both bikes are 2023 and it is the year of the American Bagger in my life, I have always ridden BMW, Triumph for the past 10 years… still have a BMW.
Why y’all gotta bring up Polaris owned like if Harley was never sold to AMF or the 33 government bailout or the fact that big companies like black rock own 50%. Let’s not throw stones here. 116 engine was made to combat the 114 on the market. And it did that beautifully. HD finally has ride modes,117 (is it good? Time will tell) and an over sized flat screen TV on it. Idk what regular hard working man can afford the new CVO line but it’s all good. With the sportster gone the scouts will fill that void. Indian doesn’t have push the line just yet but it will.
Go back to any of my older videos. Trust me I drag Harley through the mud just as much if not way more than I do. Indian. That being said, I don't think putting the working man in cvos in the same sentence is fair either because that is their top of the line bike and if you're going to compare that to anything it would be the elite line that Indian has which is priced right about the same as the CVO line. So does that mean Indian has priced out the working man as well? Now if you compare all their bikes, one for one, they are all in similar price range. So a challenger is a similar price range to a road glide a Street glide is a similar place to a chieftain. So are you saying that Indian has priced out the working men as well? As for bringing up Indian changing hands so many times part of the point there is when they change hands. It's after they lay dormant for years on end. I mean let's be honest before Polaris picked up Indian. When was the last time you could buy a new Indian off the floor? It is Indian in name only
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews you can’t get mad at an all American underdog story. lol 1901 American motorcycle company rising from its ashes and reclaiming its rightful place. Kick and cry all you want about ownership. Like I said no Harley or Davison sit at the helm of the company and are back by government bailouts and black rock corporations. “Let’s not mention AMF years” Indian is back. Making HD sweat preparing paperwork for the 34 government bail out. You got me with the comparison of the CVO line to the elite. But in the end HD killed the sportster line. Now the scouts with the gate way. Dormant for years or not. It’s back my man. Iove the 114 road glide. But wanna ask you. What do you think the future holds for both teams?
@@Grim_Underground86 no kicking or screaming nor am I mad that Indian is back, I literally said here that competition breeds innovation. No matter who owns either company I want them to succeed. But if you do want to continue with Harley's history I'd really just say you are deflecting as is anyone else in the comments who mentioned the same. None of you disputed the actual fact of what happened to Indian, you only respond with, 'Well what about Harley'. At the end of the day Harley has never had a 20+ year production gap, Indian has had a few. As for the future, hopefully they both grow and push each other to be better
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews I didn’t say the history is incorrect. The Indian name has endured so much. I’m saying so the fawk what. It’s back with vengeance. True underdogs.
Polaris is no underdog. Money to burn. The HD 117 motor has been around since 2018. The 121 is the new one. A 131 crate motor came out in 2020 and a 135 in 2023. And now HD has introduced a High Output 121. They really stepped up as of late. Indian really needs aftermarket products. You can customize a Harley any way you want. More of anything…power, chrome, pipes, cams, on and on. Customizing a bike to be unique and one of a kind is part of the fun. Indian has nothing much in this regard. I hope they start aggressively tackling this problem.
I will say, I'm glad I got my '17 Chieftain Limited when I did. It is a stand out from the crowd, not saying it's a one off custom, but I love the more retro styling vs the current styling, but I have the smaller front fender. The 111 is a great engine and so far has been great at 92k miles. I have a lot of the same opinions you do minus views on the styling. I don't see any reason to upgrade except for the Challenger or adding a Chief to the stable. And yes, the prices have gotten crazy the last few years, and the paint selection has always been lacking. Right now mine is just a basic Thunder Black, but planning on painting my bike when I hit 100k miles. Glad I'm not the only one who sees all of these points
I feel like the pain has always been kind of lacking a little bit, but they've had some crazy good paint designs and some crazy good styles. Actually I think it was the chieftain elite in 2017. Had like this silver granite sort of paint style. That was absolutely awesome. If it wasn't on that bike I totally would have been on board
Competition is good. I see it as Indian pushed Harley, now Harley is pushing back... and we, the customers, reap the rewards! I bet Indian comes out with something new in the next 2-3 years, which will have increased their profit margin and paid off the R&D to do the last generation of bikes.
Hopefully not because it is their innovation that really helped change Harley and if they take their foot off the gas, there's nothing to push both companies to get better
It would be interesting to see what they would offer though with their last few releases I think it's safe to say it would just be a challenger with knobby tires and a skid plate
I think the relative failure of the FTR wrecked their momentum. Since then, nothing really new... Who thought we could ever say Harley is the most innovative brand? 😂
Yeah, and that’s how they’re going to go out of business again! In my opinion, that’s just what happens when you try to put Harley Davidson out of business by chasing down Bill Harley forgotten Patton for the clutch basket back in the day. And that’s not the only time Indians play dirty. Just my opinion…..
Honestly, it really comes down to how long Polaris stays invested in them and how long Polaris actually wants to put resources towards them. Cuz at the end of the day that is what will make or break Indian and if it breaks Indian expect them to go dormant again for another decade or so before Polaris sells the name off
Some valid points fam! Test rode a few Indians and I must say the challenger is a beast of a bike. I’m scared to hop on a Harley bagger. Might come home with one. 🤦🏽♂️
In my opinion the competition is good for us costumers. But I agree with you we need more change and showing what they did , what I think is they need to make more approcable prices. In Europe the prices are crazy I love HD and Indian also but the difference in prices are 50 % more then in USA. We live in 21 century how is it still so much difference.
Yeah. Not a fan of the Polaris motorcycles. They are only Indian by name sake only. The brand/manufacturer is POLARIS. Sub manufacturer is Indian. So I am not a big fan or a fan at all. They should have kept Victory.
I honestly do like the Challenger although year after year seeing the exact same Challenger really does kind of take some of the shine off it for me and leaves me less and less wanting one. Although this year's Challenger elite is absolutely amazing, I almost pulled the trigger on that I couldn't resist
I have a Harley and I have no interest in buying any kind of Indian. It looks like a Harley but it's not a Harley. Somebody will look at and say hey is that a Harley and you say know it's in Indian, then they look disappointed......
Indian is very lazy with all the smoke colors but also I haven't been impressed with Harleys color schemes lately either. I miss the dyna days where there was alot of 2 tones, different accent colors., And fun emblems. Plus back then everything was chrome and it all just popped.
Let’s not pretend that Harley has been the bringer of new anything until the Pan America. Harley is the king of “bold new colors”. Outside of colors and a small bump in displacement every few years (3-5) most Harley bikes were identical year to year except the price got higher. The size of the engines stayed the same for years before they bumped up. They didn’t bump up the engine size every year. If that was the case the M8 would be the size of a 6.7L Cummings. Dealer network issue…. Bikes have to be bought for infrastructure to grow. Buildings aren’t free and employees don’t work for free. Same for aftermarket. Supply and demand. I like Harley and I like Indian but let’s be real here. Both of these companies are practically doing the same thing. The difference is Harley has been around more consistently longer.
Oh I give Harley a ton of crap too BUT even new colors and a larger ci is more than what Indian has been doing. Not to mention that aside from the PanAm there was the low rider s and St which are now soft tails, the liquid cooled sportsters, the ill fated live wire and now the current road glide and street glide refresh. Were all of these bangers or major? Nope. But the kept a buzz going
Indian (from Polaris) has only been around for 10yrs. The Indian motorcycle division has come a long way. There are many changes on the horizon with Indian Motorcycle. I get some of your points but man, if I guy wants to minimize a change (any change) they will find a way and you have done just that. I like the way you just blow off the electronically controlled rear suspension package on the Pursuit. As far as the names? Well, HD isn’t much better with everything being a “glide” name. Let’s not talk about the “nightster” 😂.
Indian in it's current incarnation has had it's fair share of electrical gremlins so with that being said some, like myself actually look at the electronically controlled suspension as a detriment. As for the harley names, literally pick one of the hundred or so harley videos I have made and you will find plenty of jokes and critiques thrown their way, every video can't be a harley video and Indian can be made fun of as well
Dude you blew this video out of the park. It is right on. However imagine if Indian put a reverse on the tour line up? In my opinion bam they would seriously spank Harley.
To each their own. I personally would never buy a bike with reverse. Hell with reverse and automatics now (Honda) you might just as well buy a car. May I suggest a Fiat? I’m only kidding. Whatever causes more people to get on two wheels the better for us as a motorcycle lobby to protect our rights.
Polaris (sorry, Indian no longer exists) should have just stuck making Victories. All they are doing is making Harley clones. So Harley-light with no dealer network. Nah, no thanks. Let the hate begin…😂
I was going to but then I realized they cover up all the pics I edited into the video already. Maybe learn to spell 'you' before you head into the internet to try to troll other people and lay off the paste eating, it's clearly done damage
Well my 111 Chief in gloss black checks my boxes, it’s stage 1’d, runs great, has plenty of power and sound, ands it’s metal, no plastic 10k crap bolted all over it
Oil change every 5k and that’s about it, 15k brand new
Harley priced me way out and the local stealership is slimy
And that's great. Particularly with motorcycles, you have to get what fits you, be it price wise or fitment wise. However, you can't shit on a brand just because you can't afford it. I can't afford a Porche, but I can still appreciate what they do.
But the equal to a chief would be a street. Bob which has a 114 and it's also 15K. So I'm not quite sure how hardly priced you out here because you literally spent the same amount of money and most Harley dealerships will offer you a stage 1 upgrade for free when you buy the bike so that would still be included and the street Bob definitely isn't covered in plastic
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews not Socal, no free lunch here. As far as the street bob, it’s a beautiful bike. Seems as though my comment is taken as Harley bashing- it’s not, the dealer was slimy as was the Indian, just less slimy- 111-114 who cares in my opinion, both are 2 wheeled rocket diesel trucks. Harley kept pushing me to the plastic 35k bikes because I have means and credit- if I did it over, I would have looked a little hard for a lightly abused Dyna from a private seller, but so be it- my Indian though boring and black haha fits my tastes and is simple (relatively) and I can work on it - appreciate your channel
@@BikesBeardsAndBrewschances are he got priced out in fees that are separate from MSRP. For example, I’m deployed right now so when I saw the Street Glide was down to $25,999 MSRP I called my buddy back home and asked what he’s seeing them go for out the door at the local dealerships and he told me he hasn’t heard of one leaving the dealerships for less than 30. And for most people in this current economy, that difference in MSRP and out the door cost prices a lot of people out. Which is why I think it should be a law that vehicle manufacturers in general cannot charge more than 2k over MSRP for a stock vehicle.
As a Harley rider, I am so indebted to Indian motorcycles for pushing Harley to be better! Let's face it, if Harley had their way, we would still be riding 88ci Evos that weigh 900 lbs, 24 degree lean angles, and did 0-60 in.......it will get there. Just be patient. Then Indian came out swinging! Pushed Harley to inovate, get better, be more modern. Then Indian released the sport chief and went back to bed. WTH Indian? Its been a couple years now since you've bothered doing anything. I mean anything! Did you run out of ideas? Run low on finances? Stop caring? Just please don't give up and throw in the towel. We need you!
Absolutely! And I mentioned that in the video competition breeds innovation so I don't want to see Indian go away. I don't want to see them go out of business. I want to see this fight heat up so we're getting the best out of both companies
Hd fanboys forget hd changed hands 3 times; the original, the bowling ball, then the fanboy rub era. Long live Indian
HD haters forget that there has always been a Davidson family member on the board since it's inception, even during the AMF years before Davidson bought the brand back. Once Indian was disbanded, that was it, none of the original owners stayed on and Polaris bought the name 50 some odd years later. Read your history. Educate yourself.
😂 NM Indian went straight outta business, and is now owned by Polaris. Polaris hasn't even made a reliable 4 wheeler in a decade. You better hope those Indians use better bearings and linkage than the newer Polaris 4 wheelers. They are junk.
No one's forgotten that the big difference is Harley's remained in business and Harley is also always had someone name d Harley or Davidson on their board. Can't say that for Indian Indian has literally gone dormant for 20 to 30 years at a time before someone buys the name and starts it back up. And really the only thing left that is Indian is The name
And let’s not forget the 33 emergency loans totaling 2.3 billion dollars Harley got from the government, the cheap parts from other countries use to build their bikes, plus the outrageous out the door prices the dealers hit you with…. Could go on but I digress….
Who cares about the dang name. Jump on a FTR 1200 for a scream and tell me it’s boring.
Can I just jump on a Honda cb1000r instead? I mean after all it did come first and it is the bike that the FTR is absolutely ripping off
I feel like everyone is boring now. every company is just playing it safe. no one takes chances anymore.
I don't know. I feel like the new Street glide and road glide lineup even though I do have some issues with them is pretty damn sweet
I bought my Indian FTR and Pursuit to ride the twisties in my area, like the Dragon, Moonshiner 28, the Snake, and other twisty roads with names, that the flatlanders come here to ride on their vacation.
I had no idea they were boring. That's news to me. I guess people buy motorcycles for different reasons, but mine was to ride, not to color. I outgrew coloring books a long time ago.
I went with the FTR because Harley just couldn't get it together with the Bronx. It was a good decision.
Ride safe. Peace.
The ftrs are really cool, although there's not a really huge difference between them and a Honda cbr1000r so it doesn't help Indian who normally carries that whole stereotype of being a Harley rip-off which I do not agree with. But yeah, the FTR really does look like a rip-off. That being said, if that's the ride you like then that should be your bike and no one else's opinion should matter. Hope to see you on the dragon sometime
@BikesBeardsAndBrews LMAO!! Rip off of a CBR1000r? That's funny 🤣.
What Harley model does the FTR rip off?
And yes, please watch for me on the Dragon. Please move to your right as much as you can so I can pass. Or just use the pulloffs.
Well… they are NOT. Indian motorcycles in my opinion are more hot right now then HD.
You can have your opinion about Indian doing better than HD, but that's not what the numbers show.
@@BlinkingKillswitch Because people in the states are still used to this brand. But that will change in a few years.
I'm sure that may be true from region to region, but overall at the end of the day Harley is still taking their lunch money from them
@@lostinspace013 There has literally been every major brand in the states since the beginning of time. As far as the dedicated cruiser market, HD is still on top, and not by a little bit. So I don't know what brand you think the states aren't used to.
@@BlinkingKillswitch Harley runs on marketing. It's like Glock pistols. It shoots, is quite reliable and popular, but it was the first "light" polymer pistol and therefore made a name for itself 30 years ago. There are TONS of better guns than the Glock today, but for a lot of people the Glock is still the best. Are there reasonable grounds for this ? NO. But this is the power of marketing. It will take a whole generation for the people for whom Glock was of great quality to simply die. It's a bit like that with Harley too. For the older generation, Harley is the only right cruiser. For the younger one - not really. It's just one of many bikes.
Man I think Indians best attribute besides the fact that they make good bikes is they forced HD to innovate and update their bikes. I laughed out loud at the names! Good video Ben.
I already have my deposit down on an Indian cuck. It is going to be awesome
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews the Cuck, is that the 24 model or the 23 with the used condom package?
I’ll take a turd brown “Indian Runner up Sport, Sport”…..Indian is trying but, yeah they need to not become stagnant. Im a big fan of their touring bikes and the FTR is a blast to ride but, now that HD is stepping up Indian needs to answer.
Oh I totally agree to all of this. One thing I loved about the cheiftain has a ton of room to stretch out
I wish Victory was still around. I always preferred the looks of them over Harley. Not to mention that Freedom 106 is without a doubt the most beautiful modern V-twin ever put into a motorcycle. I think Indian is knocking it out of the park though with their new bikes. As far as changing up their bikes and suspension there really isn't any need to. They still have the better suspension, brakes, and performance right now. My local two dealerships can't keep the Challengers in stock, and have sold 3 of the Elites before they even hit the showroom floor. You walk into a Harley dealership and there are a lot of 2023 models still on their floors. Can't say that about Indian right now.
I absolutely loved victory and I've said it many times before even in videos. If victory was still around I would be on a victory, not a Harley. That being said, comparing what each manufacturer has on the floor is a little rough without knowing what each manufacturer produces. For example, we do know that there were over a thous and Street glide and road glide cvos made in 2023 but there were only 125 Challenger elites produced in 2023. So of course their sales floors will be emptier.
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews Polaris has never massed produced their special edition motorcycles, going back to the days of Victory. I think it is a smart move on Indians part to not do it. It makes that Elite special edition all that more special. Slim chance of you running into another one out in the wild, while with the CVO you'll run into a handful of them. Just my 2 cents on it.
As soon as I read the title, I knew this was gonna be one of your classic videos. Your bread and butter, the videos. You do so amazingly well, the videos that ruffle and needless amount of feathers for seemingly no reason.
Kicking it old school in a fresh pair of Adidas
Always appreciate your videos. Indian did a great job when they restyled the motorcycles. They did keep a couple models with the valenced/skirted fenders and the ugly round top bags for th eones who want that. I've owned many H-D's over the years. Indian just announced a bigger PowerPlus engine. I purchased a 2020 Chieftain Elite, then a 2022 Pursuit Limited Premium and then the 2023 Pursuit Elite. I said H-D would have to do something amazing to ever get me to look their way again because I love the ride and power so much on the PowerPlus 108 with the Challenger platform.
H-D finally stepped up with the new bikes. New technology, safety features built into most models without paying a lot extra for it and on top of that actually lowered their pricing.
It will be interesting to see what Indian brings about from the looks of it. It won't be till model year 2025 so here's fingers crossed that they step up even more and make Harley step up even more as well
@@BikesBeardsAndBrewsYes, sounds like 2025. Also probably going into the Chieftain and Roadmaster. Some air cooled purist won't be happy.
You make some good points, but Harley has priced the middl class rider right out of the market. There's arguments on both sides of the fence. Good stuff, Ben.
Indian is just as expensive as harley now
Everything has priced the middle class out unfortunately
@@speaktruth247 Say it louder for the people in the back. I don't see the middle class running around on the Challenger or Pursuit Elites. Or any Indian, for that matter.
Unless you are looking at a CVO , every other comparable bike I just looked at was comparable prices between the 2. Within $1k or so
You know I've made this argument a few times saying that Harley is pricing out the middle class but then when I actually sit down and put Indian side to side with Harley and you should try this as well. If you're going one for one on their models everything's right around the same price. So to say Harley is pricing out. The middle class is saying Indian is doing the same
Got more bike and bang for my buck….
Over 13,000 miles no issues. Satisfied customer and I’m not bored.
Coolness and hey as long as you like it, that's all that counts. Enjoy!
All HD look the same. Black and Chrome, reminds me of a funeral home.
Hey man, that's awesome and congratulations on both purchases. I hope you're riding the hell out of both of them
It sounds like you haven't looked at a Harley since like 1983 you really should revisit a dealership man that's not the case anymore
What makes you think they aren't selling?
The fact that they're still behind HD.
@@BlinkingKillswitch Well, it takes a while for the "Kool-Aide drinkers to pay off their 7 year $700.00 per month H-D loans, but fear not, they are slowly but surely coming around.
@@BlinkingKillswitch Harley has the bigger market and has for over 40 years. The biggest difference though is that there are way more younger people on Indians than on Harleys. Also most Indian Dealerships can't keep the Challenger, Chieftain or Super Chief models in stock. They are selling as fast as they get them off the truck.
Search any Indian dealership in New England and I guarantee that's not the case. Hell I can still find the Indian challenger elite on one sales floor in Massachusetts
What makes you think they are selling?
Your right about the 4K price increase from 2020 to now of the Challengers which are basically the same bike...But one thing to add...The price increases have been from Indian owners R n D of the problems in the electronics and infotainments....Indian had to do alot of fixing which translates into rising MSRP costs Indian charges...
Yeah, but that's not very helpful. You're supposed to sell a functioning bike to begin with, so if you put out something that's defective and then charge me for you to figure out how to fix it, that's pretty shady
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews Yes it is...Thats why you stick with the tried in true older Bikes that are miniumalistic and you do your own upgrades...
I think if Indian would change there tanks to tear drop tank like Harley and not make the fairing so bulky I think it would be game changer
I honestly like the way the Indian gas tanks look. I'm not going to complain about that whatsoever. Although that's all in the eye of the beholder so I get it. As for their fairings, they are bigger and chunkier but they are more useful like their Challenger. Those glove boxes can hold a small car. They are so huge
Dude the naming convention is something I hadn't even realized. That's hilarious.
Also I'll die on this hill bit the best bike Indian has is their Razor collab, the eFTR Jr. 😂
haha I was looking at those and was highly amused. they would be great for around town
Great topic. I agree they were putting pressure on HD, but seems to be backing off a bit. They are already talking about next years power stroke or whatever it is they call thier line of motors. Thats not going to help the 24 sales. Most of the metric market does the same thing with bikes. Just keeps pushing out the same bike year after year. Maybe a color change from time to time. They reserve those changes for the top tier. Congrand on 5k!!!
That really is part of the problem with metrics as well and I've made fun of that before, especially with the Honda fury. They just put out one every year and the only difference is it has a different color. Sometimes they don't even change the color for 2 years in a row it was yellow. Hopefully Indian doesn't start going down that road because they do put out good stuff. They just need to get their foot back on the gas
Indian doesn't sell much more than what victory did.
Which is a shame. I do believe they have a good product and let's be honest, the better they sell, the more competition they'll be for Harley and the more Harley will want to push the limits to get better
I think where Indian shines is with their smaller lower-priced bikes. After the death of the Evo Sportster it seems the Indian Scout Rogue 60 is one of the few bikes out there really filling that void. I think I'd much rather have one of those Indian engines than a Revmax engine, even if the prices were the same. As for colors a lot of us black is the preferred color so I'm fine with the colors.
I've already started up the ladder with bigger and heavier weight. The grass isn't always greener. I've given up on chasing displacement and the weight that comes with it. Turns out sometimes a ligher bike in a classic displacement is more fun.
There's also something to said about the reliability of an engine that's been in production long enough to work out all the bugs. I'm fine with not having the newest engine or a lot of tech, actually I prefer it. I also tend to keep my bikes for a long time so I'm already not looking to trade in over updates.
I agree, it does seem like Indian is aiming more towards the smaller lighter weight market. And I also agree I would take a scout over one of those new sportsters any day I've mentioned in past videos and I think the new sportsters are absolutely hideous looking
Indian motorcycles moto is; We wish we were Harley Davidson........but we're not 😢
I mean I don't fully agree with this statement only because there's only so many different ways. You can make a bike look different and tons of manufacturers have baggers tons of them have fixed fairings ton of them have non-fix fairings some of them have lightweight cruisers I think it's the guts that matter and the guts that make up an Indian are way different than a Harley
@BikesBeardsAndBrews oh no, they definitely wish they were Harley.
My local Indian dealership has 4-5 bikes on a good day. Usually, 2-3 on the floor. There are two Harley dealerships in town and both are overflowing with bikes.
Intresting take about color being the big thing. The big draw to me was that the online prices were posted and the dealer advertised 1500 off the MSRP. Harleys website said "contact for details" under price which just means you're not gonna like what they want. End of the day I got an Indian for below msrp as the otd price (including tax and title). Wouldn't call my bike boring, but I don't think I wouldve been bored on a Harley either.
As for prices, it does get rough. Honestly, if you're at a dealership that's doing like monumental markups like that, just get out of there. That's a horrible place to be. I know dealerships around my area have actually been committing to the MSRP price, which means you can just go to the Harley website and see how much you're going to pay and I think that's pretty awesome
my buddy complains about the electronics on the bike because you can not adjust anything like you can on the new HD's/Pan Ami have a customized mode on mine that it never comes out of unless I go to "offroad +".....I think HD has surpassed them in the electronics dept.
I know at least three people and Indians two of them are on ericold and one of them is on the liquid cold and all three of them have had electrical issues and they've had other issues within the engine and it's kind of mind-blowing that and when they do have these issues their bike is out of commission for months at a time. It's kind of insane
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews damn.....
Frankly, as far as the cruiser market goes, these last few years have been boring. I don't know what the future holds for HD and Indian, but at this point it doesn't look great. If something crazy does happen within the next few years, this era of HD and Indian will probably be looked back on as the one of the most boring times in their history.
I don't know. I mean I do have my issues with the new Street glide and road glides that came out but overall I think they did a really good job on them and they are moving forward. As for Indian, they normally do a great job. They just seem to have backed off for a while and hopefully they get out of that mindset and get their foot back on the gas
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews I'll agree with that.
Point on Paint - yes it is true, saw the Fast Johnnie Road Glide and after trying NOT to buy one from April thru October I succumbed in October and picked up a FJ RG ST, Love that STUPID PIG. Also have a Challenger Dark Horse and it is truly awesome. Both bikes are 2023 and it is the year of the American Bagger in my life, I have always ridden BMW, Triumph for the past 10 years… still have a BMW.
Congratulations on the 5k Subs
Thanks man, much appreciated
Why y’all gotta bring up Polaris owned like if Harley was never sold to AMF or the 33 government bailout or the fact that big companies like black rock own 50%. Let’s not throw stones here. 116 engine was made to combat the 114 on the market. And it did that beautifully. HD finally has ride modes,117 (is it good? Time will tell) and an over sized flat screen TV on it. Idk what regular hard working man can afford the new CVO line but it’s all good. With the sportster gone the scouts will fill that void. Indian doesn’t have push the line just yet but it will.
Go back to any of my older videos. Trust me I drag Harley through the mud just as much if not way more than I do. Indian. That being said, I don't think putting the working man in cvos in the same sentence is fair either because that is their top of the line bike and if you're going to compare that to anything it would be the elite line that Indian has which is priced right about the same as the CVO line. So does that mean Indian has priced out the working man as well? Now if you compare all their bikes, one for one, they are all in similar price range. So a challenger is a similar price range to a road glide a Street glide is a similar place to a chieftain. So are you saying that Indian has priced out the working men as well? As for bringing up Indian changing hands so many times part of the point there is when they change hands. It's after they lay dormant for years on end. I mean let's be honest before Polaris picked up Indian. When was the last time you could buy a new Indian off the floor? It is Indian in name only
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews you can’t get mad at an all American underdog story. lol 1901 American motorcycle company rising from its ashes and reclaiming its rightful place. Kick and cry all you want about ownership. Like I said no Harley or Davison sit at the helm of the company and are back by government bailouts and black rock corporations. “Let’s not mention AMF years” Indian is back. Making HD sweat preparing paperwork for the 34 government bail out. You got me with the comparison of the CVO line to the elite. But in the end HD killed the sportster line. Now the scouts with the gate way. Dormant for years or not. It’s back my man. Iove the 114 road glide. But wanna ask you. What do you think the future holds for both teams?
@@Grim_Underground86 no kicking or screaming nor am I mad that Indian is back, I literally said here that competition breeds innovation. No matter who owns either company I want them to succeed. But if you do want to continue with Harley's history I'd really just say you are deflecting as is anyone else in the comments who mentioned the same. None of you disputed the actual fact of what happened to Indian, you only respond with, 'Well what about Harley'. At the end of the day Harley has never had a 20+ year production gap, Indian has had a few. As for the future, hopefully they both grow and push each other to be better
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews I didn’t say the history is incorrect. The Indian name has endured so much. I’m saying so the fawk what. It’s back with vengeance. True underdogs.
Polaris is no underdog. Money to burn. The HD 117 motor has been around since 2018. The 121 is the new one. A 131 crate motor came out in 2020 and a 135 in 2023. And now HD has introduced a High Output 121. They really stepped up as of late. Indian really needs aftermarket products. You can customize a Harley any way you want. More of anything…power, chrome, pipes, cams, on and on. Customizing a bike to be unique and one of a kind is part of the fun. Indian has nothing much in this regard. I hope they start aggressively tackling this problem.
I will say, I'm glad I got my '17 Chieftain Limited when I did. It is a stand out from the crowd, not saying it's a one off custom, but I love the more retro styling vs the current styling, but I have the smaller front fender. The 111 is a great engine and so far has been great at 92k miles. I have a lot of the same opinions you do minus views on the styling. I don't see any reason to upgrade except for the Challenger or adding a Chief to the stable. And yes, the prices have gotten crazy the last few years, and the paint selection has always been lacking. Right now mine is just a basic Thunder Black, but planning on painting my bike when I hit 100k miles.
Glad I'm not the only one who sees all of these points
I feel like the pain has always been kind of lacking a little bit, but they've had some crazy good paint designs and some crazy good styles. Actually I think it was the chieftain elite in 2017. Had like this silver granite sort of paint style. That was absolutely awesome. If it wasn't on that bike I totally would have been on board
Competition is good. I see it as Indian pushed Harley, now Harley is pushing back... and we, the customers, reap the rewards! I bet Indian comes out with something new in the next 2-3 years, which will have increased their profit margin and paid off the R&D to do the last generation of bikes.
Hell yeah! Let the race begin!
All valid points... Maybe they are going with the if it aint broke don't change it..
Hopefully not because it is their innovation that really helped change Harley and if they take their foot off the gas, there's nothing to push both companies to get better
Everything that was said in this video and add a jerk circle. (Harley)
Uhhhhh yes??
I subbed Bro, just on the opening speech alone😂
“That one girl…”
HA! Thanks for the sub and thanks for watching!
Wondering when they are going to go for an Adventure bike. That would be cool
It would be interesting to see what they would offer though with their last few releases I think it's safe to say it would just be a challenger with knobby tires and a skid plate
I think the relative failure of the FTR wrecked their momentum. Since then, nothing really new... Who thought we could ever say Harley is the most innovative brand? 😂
Yeah, and that’s how they’re going to go out of business again! In my opinion, that’s just what happens when you try to put Harley Davidson out of business by chasing down Bill Harley forgotten Patton for the clutch basket back in the day. And that’s not the only time Indians play dirty. Just my opinion…..
Honestly, it really comes down to how long Polaris stays invested in them and how long Polaris actually wants to put resources towards them. Cuz at the end of the day that is what will make or break Indian and if it breaks Indian expect them to go dormant again for another decade or so before Polaris sells the name off
Some valid points fam! Test rode a few Indians and I must say the challenger is a beast of a bike. I’m scared to hop on a Harley bagger. Might come home with one. 🤦🏽♂️
HarleyRoadGlide Jr Coming soon!
In my opinion the competition is good for us costumers. But I agree with you we need more change and showing what they did , what I think is they need to make more approcable prices. In Europe the prices are crazy I love HD and Indian also but the difference in prices are 50 % more then in USA. We live in 21 century how is it still so much difference.
Preach my dude!
Sounds like you talking about harley for second
Nah, HD is at least trying. Something, anything. Indian has been resting. Maybe they have something big in the works who knows.
@JG-ho9uz hey that one guy that don't know I'm yanking Bens chain
@@TheBlueBikeDoyle Hey, the one guy that doesn’t realize all context is lost on the internet and not everyone knows your relationship with Ben.
@@BlinkingKillswitch must be your 1st time here it's all good
@@TheBlueBikeDoyle It's not, I just don't keep up with your relationships with UA-camrs.
Yeah. Not a fan of the Polaris motorcycles. They are only Indian by name sake only. The brand/manufacturer is POLARIS. Sub manufacturer is Indian. So I am not a big fan or a fan at all. They should have kept Victory.
I honestly do like the Challenger although year after year seeing the exact same Challenger really does kind of take some of the shine off it for me and leaves me less and less wanting one. Although this year's Challenger elite is absolutely amazing, I almost pulled the trigger on that I couldn't resist
So what do you think of Ducati which is owned by VW. Or Moto Guzzi which is owned by a scooter company Piaggio 😮😮
I have a Harley and I have no interest in buying any kind of Indian. It looks like a Harley but it's not a Harley. Somebody will look at and say hey is that a Harley and you say know it's in Indian, then they look disappointed......
They definitely have their similarities, but in fairness there's only so much you can do with a bike to make it look different than other bikes
I always thought they went simple in the colors because people were getting custom paint
I mean they do have some nice colors but they never really try to push it unless it's the slite or jack daniels line now a days
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews ~ I’m following. You made sense to me. I just thought they weren’t simple because so many were asking for custom.
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews ~ kinda like mini Cooper does 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣 that poor “one girl!!”
teach her to be boring
Great share fam
thank you sir and thanks for watching!
Indian is very lazy with all the smoke colors but also I haven't been impressed with Harleys color schemes lately either. I miss the dyna days where there was alot of 2 tones, different accent colors., And fun emblems. Plus back then everything was chrome and it all just popped.
I honestly hate dealing with chrome so I'm way more a black it out guy though some of the darker chromes harley has been using are pretty sick
Too funny though on the names 🤣
right?!?!
Let’s not pretend that Harley has been the bringer of new anything until the Pan America. Harley is the king of “bold new colors”. Outside of colors and a small bump in displacement every few years (3-5) most Harley bikes were identical year to year except the price got higher.
The size of the engines stayed the same for years before they bumped up. They didn’t bump up the engine size every year. If that was the case the M8 would be the size of a 6.7L Cummings.
Dealer network issue…. Bikes have to be bought for infrastructure to grow. Buildings aren’t free and employees don’t work for free. Same for aftermarket. Supply and demand.
I like Harley and I like Indian but let’s be real here. Both of these companies are practically doing the same thing. The difference is Harley has been around more consistently longer.
Oh I give Harley a ton of crap too BUT even new colors and a larger ci is more than what Indian has been doing. Not to mention that aside from the PanAm there was the low rider s and St which are now soft tails, the liquid cooled sportsters, the ill fated live wire and now the current road glide and street glide refresh. Were all of these bangers or major? Nope. But the kept a buzz going
Indian (from Polaris) has only been around for 10yrs. The Indian motorcycle division has come a long way. There are many changes on the horizon with Indian Motorcycle.
I get some of your points but man, if I guy wants to minimize a change (any change) they will find a way and you have done just that. I like the way you just blow off the electronically controlled rear suspension package on the Pursuit. As far as the names? Well, HD isn’t much better with everything being a “glide” name. Let’s not talk about the “nightster” 😂.
Indian in it's current incarnation has had it's fair share of electrical gremlins so with that being said some, like myself actually look at the electronically controlled suspension as a detriment. As for the harley names, literally pick one of the hundred or so harley videos I have made and you will find plenty of jokes and critiques thrown their way, every video can't be a harley video and Indian can be made fun of as well
Let’s Go!!! 💪🏾
We Went!
I love my 2015 girls bike. I get way more commments on that bike than I do my HD.
But wait, what's the girls bike?!
Dude you blew this video out of the park.
It is right on. However imagine if Indian put a reverse on the tour line up?
In my opinion bam they would seriously spank Harley.
if there was a reverse I'd honestly make fun of it more, that seems to be the ultimate sign of an old man bike
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews totally disagree. It’s comfort and convenience. Especially on a tour bike loaded with gear and a spouse.
To each their own. I personally would never buy a bike with reverse. Hell with reverse and automatics now (Honda) you might just as well buy a car. May I suggest a Fiat? I’m only kidding. Whatever causes more people to get on two wheels the better for us as a motorcycle lobby to protect our rights.
👋🇺🇸😎👍🥃🫡🍺🫡
💯🍻🤣🍻🍻💯🔥🍌
Revolution Max Liquid Cooled is the future!
Hopefully they invest in it and make it happen!
Polaris (sorry, Indian no longer exists) should have just stuck making Victories. All they are doing is making Harley clones. So Harley-light with no dealer network. Nah, no thanks.
Let the hate begin…😂
haha shots fired!
Indian motorcycles are the most exciting thing to Me
Hey, if that's what gets you going and keeps you riding that is great
Maybe if u edit in pics this video wouldn't be so "boring"
I was going to but then I realized they cover up all the pics I edited into the video already. Maybe learn to spell 'you' before you head into the internet to try to troll other people and lay off the paste eating, it's clearly done damage
@@BikesBeardsAndBrews kek
😎👍👍
💯💯💯🍻💯💯💯
🔥🔥🔥
🍻🍻🍻
Hater! 😂
Don't mind me. I'll just be over here eating my hater tots
💯👍
💯🔥💯🔥