Awesome gun Dan! Kudos to the developers of this gun, it's a beauty and was probably insanely difficult to dial in correctly. I would like to geek out on the speargun physics, but I don't mean to lecture anyone
Spot on. It's many things improving roller performance compared to a conventional gun. Longer propulsion distance, prestretch (preload), less recoil etc. Smooth acceleration, i.e. acceleration of the shaft over a longer period of time would probably be the biggest factor.
Is less recoil coming from the bands retracting towards the handle and not away from it like on a conventional? Because the shaft will still generate recoil being pushed away from the gun.
@isaacheimbach1089 Maybe you mean the same but "equally" is probably less of a correct term than what Aegan above proposed which is that that shaft gets loaded up over a longer distance. So, even if for argument's sake we say a 2 banded classic gun would have the same power input it would happen over a shorter distance and hence recoil would be felt more and possibly unsettle the shaft more. Also, as was eluded too by another commenter, the fact the bands move opposite than the shaft and opposite classic setups is very much why there's less recoil in a "pulley roller". Another factor is the very high handle placement which aligns recoil better than most guns except some Euro pipe guns. And yep, that handle and cutout at the rear was an Abellan feature and used by Orca with his blessing as I understand. As for it taking time to dial it in, that's likely very true. The Orcas do seemed tuned well. The makers seem like standup people and great spearos so deserve their success.
Hey Daniel. We are a company that manufactures wooden invert roller spearguns and what you say about the recoil is 100% true. A lot of manufacturers falsely advertise about zero recoil which is totally wrong. In fact the recoil is a little less than half of what it would be if this exact speargun had the same rubber bands set up on top as a conventional speargun and the reason is what you mentioned later in the video. You get a 1:2 transmission ratio between the bands and the shaft. That halves the acceleration of the spear shaft which means half the acceleration of the speargun on the opposite direction too, which is the recoil we feel. I say that the recoil is a little less than half because the rubber bands are on the bottom and are moving on the opposite direction of the shaft which reduces the recoil a little more. Also the fact that the you have a transmission ratio of 1:2 doesn't actually mean that the shaft will get double the speed. Because the power of the rubber bands is exactly the same. What actually happens is you have half the acceleration of the conventional set up but the shaft accelerates for a bigger duration because you use almost the whole length of the speargun to propel the shaft which ends up giving you more speed on the shaft, if the speargun is set up correctly. But it definitely is not double the speed. Cheers from Greece!
Hey Adrian, i think, you misunderstood what he is saying. He is not telling speed is the double of conventional guns, but on the setup itself, the shaft will move with two times the speed with which the bands will contract. That follows from the geometrycal boundary conditions. When pulley bound to bands moves x, the rope pulling the pulley needs to move 2x, this is a geometrical boundary so no discussion here. If you want to calculate the recoil power you consider the boundary conditions + momentum balance and setup the energy equation of the speargun as a system. If you want to be very precise, you consider the friction coefficients of every roller in the system + of the dyneema.
@@AndrianBLUE exactly and out of that follows, that the shaft moves double the distance as the bands do in certain time interval, which means double th speed :) Btw would you share your website link ? I would like to take a look at your invert rollers.
Quality stuff Dan! Would love to see a comparison between the guns you have and different reviews from what you’ve found over the years what works best for what situation.
Great video and great description! I especially like your wrap up at the end where you explain that this would not be an all around speargun. I’m looking forward to more Mediterranean videos. Especially in Italy and Greece. 👍👍👍
That is a slick looking gun - would be rad to see how this roller setup compares to other roller and non-roller setups in a similar fashion like Rob Allen's Max Spear Velocity test series.
That video series is great! It won't have a very different performance than standard rollers as far as acceleration/velocity goes, but the total kg load would be higher than in a monoroller since it basically has 1,5 bands (3 bands/2) instead of 1 that the monoroller has. Combined with a bit lower friction and better shaft release from the wishbone, it would shoot better. But probably not better than a double roller.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 I think I agree though part of me also think the roller crowd has underestimated losses in the bands going over the rollers. I think a lot of them think they have great powerful guns, but in reality they have less recoil which leads to better precision (great) and more power going into the shaft instead of the hand. But it's been proven that a perfectly fitted custom ergo grip on a classic gun will tame recoil from even very high powered classic guns. So, a classic gun with a custom handle - despite the shorter effective band pull - is still a very strong contender.
@@AntiVaganza Absolutely, I remember a spearboard member's tests on this with setups like 2x14,5mm at 3.8 stretch. Which also increases band pull. It really depends on the setup. For example a 7mm invert might be somewhat slow and not worth for its loading effort compared to even a light single roller, but with a lighter shaft it could work great. Then there are other types of guns like fusion, which kind of combines the two. Roller definitely have an issue with their muzzles though, shaft's tail is slightly lifted and at long shots they do lose some accuracy.
Daniel you, according my opinion and language level (I live in Russia) gives good explanation and very understandable language for non native speaker, I am quiet about native speaker, and your opinion about this speargun nice, I don`t know will other buy or not orca, but anyway good job, hold on this way, thank you very much!!!
Inverts (polispasts) having higher shaft speed is a myth. They have the same as rollers and in fact have less initial shaft speed that traditional guns. Smooth acceleration (and a couple other things, like higher kg load, pretension/preload, and longer propulsion distance) is what gives rollers and polispasts much more power. They basically develop more force + they lose their stored energy slower (i.e. they sustain it better). Ergo they travel farther away, but the shaft speed is pretty much the same - it is just sustained for longer. This has been measured with tools (in the channel of Spearfish gr I reckon. Title is "traditional vs roller speargun" or something similar). Theoretically, if the bands contracted slower it would mean they have to pull a 2x heavier shaft. But they don't, the shaft is the same as it would be in a classical three-band. What happens is that the bands go through 2x the dyneema length through the pulleys, at the same speed. The bands don't contract slower, they just contract for half (-50%) of the distance they would in a standard roller or a full invert without pulleys. It's distance covered, not speed, that changes compared to a non-pulley speargun. Basically what a couple other spearos said in the comments. Hope everything is understandable :) english is my second language EDIT: Anyone wanting to check shaft velocity himself can go to the calculator created by Spiller, J. (2021) in his scientific study. Measures velocity, penetration, recoil and other things.
My friend... In your first paragraph you say something that has no logic at all... You say that invert roller spearguns have same or less speed but the shaft travels further because it sustains the energy for longer.... You do not understand physics at all.... From the moment the shaft has stopped being pushed from the rubber bands or the dyneema line it starts decelerating. It doesn't matter in what way it accelerated. Only 3 things matter. Exit speed, drag resistance, weight. Since drag resistance and weight are the same (we are talking about the same shaft) the only variable that will affect how long the shaft will go is the exit speed. Nothing else. So the only way the shaft can travel further is if it has higher exit speed. Simple physics. Also you say that invert rollers are more powerful because of a bunch of reasons but with same or lower shaft speed.. Wrong. The kinetic energy of the shaft is what matters. The formula is K.E=1/2*m*v^2. So from what you can see the only 2 variables that affect the shaft's kinetic energy is it's mass and it's speed. So for the shaft to have more kinetic energy (which means more penetration) it has to have higher speed, since its mass is not changing... You clearly don't understand the physics behind a moveable pulley system.... The bands contract at half the speed that the shaft is moving. This is a fact. That is what the moveable pulley system does... The moveable pulley moves half the distance that the shaft will move during the contraction of the bands. So since the shaft moves double the distance the pulley does in the same amount of time this means that the shaft moves with double the speed in comparison to the pulley which means with the bands since the bands pull the pulley directly. This is not up for discussion... Please study the physics first and then try to give information about the subject.
@@AndrianBLUE The issue here is that I too used to think that inverts have higher speed which would explain their better shots, but when measured, it turned out they don't. What they have is mainly smoother acceleration. There are no other vids besides Bekas' testing this, Rob Allen already tested rollers (found the same thing as Bekas: no higher speed, just smoother acceleration) and he's about to test inverts too. Guess we'll see if his results are similar to Bekas. A roller and an invert have about the same max shaft speed with a classic gun. You are free to conduct your own tests and show otherwise. Physics doesn't disagree with this either since you can increase acceleration without increasing speed (or mass). Maybe it's you who doesn't understand physics? Because there's no other explanation, currently all tests have shown no higher speed than classic guns. With this piece of proof we can deduct that the theory of rollers and inverts having higher speed is a myth, and any physics law used to explain this is simply misused since physics can't be wrong - the only one who can be wrong is one making a claim that does not agree with empirical testing. Anecdotally it makes sense too. A double roller will have about the same performance as a three-banded invert, when the two guns having the same shaft mass and the same kg load on the shaft (let's say 60 or 70). If inverts had double shaft speed then inverts would shoot MUCH farther with the same kg load and shaft mass. But they don't. And there's no pulley in rollers "doubling their speed" and yet a 2x14mm roller shoots astronomically better than a simple 2x14mm gun. As for band contraction, I think we disagree on semantics and not on the subject. The material of the bands and the weight does not change so their contraction speed does not change but the speed at which they cover distance does. Different phrasing, same thing. It's basically half that of a normal roller, so if that's doubled in the shaft, then the max speed remains the same as in a roller or in a classic gun. Even in the scenario where the shaft speed is doubled, the max speed remains the same as in a roller or classic, lol. Good luck proving it's double than roller shaft speed (and basically quadruple than that of rollers and classic guns). You're free to ask Bekas about this and then conduct your own tests. I'll be coming back to this comment when mr Allen publishes his results on inverts.
I forgot to add: This isn't a conversation about whether invert or roller shaft speed is doubled compared to classic guns. Tests have already been conducted about this and the theory that they do have double speed was falsified. This is how the scientific method works, if your theory does not agree with reality then the problem lies with your theory, not reality. We are merely theorizing about why this happens - greater power with similar maximum speed. As for physics, f=ma would account for the force of the shaft at a given moment. If you combine all moments (let's say per second) you'll find the force of the roller and invert gun being higher due to smoother deceleration. In other words, they shed less (a) and this in turn allows them to shed less kinetic energy, and maintain it better. Net force per second (N/s) applied on the shaft is higher in rollers and inverts, including because of preload. Net force charges the object with KE (you can read this exact sentence in Britannica). KE=f^2. Rollers and inverts are charged (i.e. force is applied to their shafts) over a longer period of time and lose energy slower. Ergo they achieve better shots because the spear can maintain it's speed better. I did a quick search and there are studies out on this. Look up Worthington, J. (2017) to see how much the load (N) is increased in rollers compared to classic guns. Then check out Spiller, J. (2021) to see how muzzle velocity of rollers is 33 m/s (39.9 m/s with a booster), same measurement as Bekas and Rob Allen found (and lower than a classic gun). So we already know that 130cm double rollers who shoot at 7m have about as much muzzle velocity as a classic gun with a similar force load (N) and shaft mass. You can also see how he measured a roller+booster with 304J of spear energy and a three-banded invert with 312J of spear energy at 39.9 m/s and 40.4 m/s muzzle velocities respectively, with a 7mm shaft. The penetration was also the same (38 and 39 cm). Even with an overpowered invert, there's no double speed. This is official physics research, so please educate yourself before getting all upset on youtube comments. Nonetheless, dive safe :)
Also: I tried the speargun calculator from Spiller (2021), thought I'd mention the results. A 2x16mm roller comes up as having the same muzzle velocity as a 4x16mm invert (1 doubled main pair + 2 additional pairs). Both guns have 1kg mass (a conventional tube gun), 1m loading length with 1.25m 8mm shafts. Muzzle velocity is 32 m/s and 32.3 m/s respectively, and remains almost equal (equally decreasing) up to 8 meters. The invert has 18% higher recoil, but I assume less friction (which is not calculated). Give it a try, you'll like it. EDIT: Managed to get the invert to shoot faster than the roller, at 1m/s and 1cm extra penetration (consistently from muzzle to 8m). 2kg mass, 1.2m loading length, 1.45m shaft length 8mm, 338J (roller) and 360J (invert) on the shaft. Roller is 2x16mm, invert has the more common 1x19mm (not doubled) + 2x18mm. All bands at 310% stretch and the 19mm at 320-330%.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 My friend I did not say anywhere that an invert roller speargun has double the speed of a classic speargun.... You did not understand what I said at all. What I said is that the shaft on the speargun moves at double the speed in respect to the speed that it's rubber bands are moving... Not double the speed than the spear shaft of a classic speargun... What I also said was that from the moment the shaft leaves the speargun, it doesn't matter how it was shot. It just matter what it's speed is. The higher the speed the higher the momentum and kinetic energy it has. We have not done any tests to scientifically measure speeds yet, and we do not easily accept what results others publish because we do not know how correctly their experiments have been done. But nowhere did I say anything about the speed of the invert roller being double in respect to a classic speargun...
Its very technically well made invert roller gun I ever seen it Salvimar hero had also similar design back years ago in terms of recoil.I wonder the range of this beauty ?
I’m considering starting spearfishing, so there’s no experience behind my question. I really like the no-recoil (no discernible), the quickness of the shaft, all make sense. As did the golf clubs comment, but i couldn’t consider a “set” of spearguns in reality. If you had one gun to buy for coastal spearfishing, what small selection of guns would you consider, then settle on which one?
at the rate these spear guns are being developed I foresee underwater scopes, IR scopes and magazines. I'm a bit paranoid so I prefer to reload quickly. You never know.... our friend Mr Shark might just see me as a snack.
Looks like a nice gun. Have you had the chance to test out the Aimrite guns? Only reason I ask is they are Australian made. All about supporting a local product.
I haven’t used any Aimrite products for about 10 years. I didn’t have great experiences with the guns I used but they do look like they have undergone a lot of development in recent years. I guess Spain is more local to me now than Australia.
Dan, I have to commend you on your honesty. In this thread alone, you have been brutally honest about both Riffe and Aimrite. @@DanielMann . I mean, yes you are shill for this gun, haha, but it's easy to do when the product is solid and has actually incorporated what has been learned design and tuning wise the last 10 years instead of, well not doing that;). I have never shot an Orca but I have shot Abellans and if potential spearos educate themselves a bit, meaning away from the catalogues and brands' webpages, they'll notice some traits that makes for good guns. And Orca ticks the boxes. (Also standing blessed on the shoulders of a known giant is a great starting point).
Epic speargun! I think I will buy one myself, it looks and sounds unreal! Can you please tell me is your speargun with white and matte finish, I love how it looks!
Totally agree. I think the price point is way over the top when you think about the components. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful speargun, but like anything, a price point is set to what some are willing to pay. Although I could buy one, I wouldn't as I don't think it is worth the money. Other guns out there for half that price that do the same job.
Yes they are quite expensive but all made in Spain from a small family business. The conventional two band guns are around a similar price to a Riffe euro. Components are one thing but the labour involved and cost of making moulds for each speargun is huge. I’ve made my own carbon fibre guns before and they take a long time to make.
@@__fraser Hi, not sure but looks like my answer is under review or something, just look for "spearguns in the uk" its the one with spearfishing in its name
Nah, on guns like these, the reel sits on a U-shaped bracket. Imagine the U lying down with the open end towards the muzzle - the bands slide in there to hook onto their attachment points. Back in the day, some builders didn't have this bracket and would either end the bands in front of the reel losing a lot of band pull length or you'd have to pull the bands over the reel which was possibly cumbersome.
Beautiful looking gun, but, I have to say I do love a good handmade teak speargun. There's something about the craftsmanship. Yes they are heavy out of the water, but makes little difference in the water. I think your mate Tim is also partial to a wooden gun.
I’ve made over 100 timber guns since 2005. Eventually I ended up making fully composite spearguns. Mainly due to the design limitations of timber and the maintenance. All of Tim’s Riffe euros were water logged when I met him. They would get so heavy at the end of the day and bone dry after drying out. I finished them with clear epoxy and the gun performed way better. I do like the look of timber but I’m a practical man and less maintenance the better!
@@DanielMann I understand the maintenance fact, but how is wood design limiting, especially with CNC machines and stuff? Also, while nicely designed, Orca seems limited because there is no place to mount conventional kicker band that in most cases changes things for better, especially with thicker shafts. My friend will test it soon and compare it to some Croatian and Slovenian guns so feel free to contact if you are curious about results. Best wishes
@@jurejurinovic7246 Hello Jure, sorry for our intrusion, I just wanted to answer that if it is possible to add a conventional band at the top, it is not installed on this model since due to its size and type of prey it is very capable of making catches more complicated, in sizes superiors such as V-125 or Diablo 140 model, are added without any problem, we will show it shortly. Thanks for the appreciation, we always take spearos' suggestions to keep improving.
Jure, the timber has to be of a certain thickness for strength. With carbon fibre you can make intricate parts very small without worrying about strength.
@@DanielMann I have a Pathos roller and love that also. Just find the shooting line gets tangled on the end sometimes. Happened once with quite a nice fish in front of me, but probably my poor shooting line choice (user error). Perhaps a carbon / timber mix is good, I was wondering what the newish Rob Allen ones are like.
Very nice Speargun I wish I gift like that Speargun to me 😅 Hello watching from Boracay Philippines me too I was spearfishing Day & night Dive spearfishing
Hey @DanielMann ! awesome video as always ! im looking for my first spear gun do you have any recommendations? I will hunt mostly in Croatia (adriatic sea). what do you thing about Salvimar Hero Roller Sling Speargun 105cm ?
Absolutely love my V125 so far!! Thinking I will go to 16mm bands from the 14s though for more punch as my “reason” for having it is chasing large pelagics. Thoughts?
Inverts/polispasts can take a pretty big load, especially carbon ones. A typical setup used in Greece is 1x19mm main pair + 2x16 (or 2x17,5mm) with 7,5-8mm shafts.
There are plenty of aluminium invert/polispasts with three or even four pairs of bands for a few hundred €s in the market. Roller systems are great because they don't require exotic materials to work well and with minimal recoil.
@@islemarhab8536 MVD guns come already set up as rollers or inverts. Converting any conventional Mares or Pathos or Meandros or Salvimar etc to roller/invert also comes much cheaper. Even a fiberglass roller/invert from Bleutec would cost less.
Everybody get crazy about rollers, ivert rollers, 120cm invert as a first gun? If we're talking about Mediterranean, do you really need such powerful gun to shoot sargo 500g? Do you really need a gun that shoot in a distance of 6m? or better to improve your ambrush/aguatto technic and fish will come closer? I had personally roller, tried it for a year and after I switched to conventional C4 Mr Carbon. Way way less pain loading it, amazing precise and enough power to shot almost anything in Greece. (Ofc we don't talking here about 50kg tuna etc). Do you feel recoil from the gun? - as Jobs said 'you just hold it wrong'. the most funniest thing, every spearfishing forum has tons of huge rollers guns on sale, but a very few conventionals.
Rollers have a larger learning curve and they're trendy so many will buy a couple but never use them. I'm Greek and many here use rollers and inverts. However we use shorter guns (85-95cm) for aspetto. The firepower doesn't exceed 5m usually. That's ideal for 750gr-1kg sargo as well as goldblotch groupers, barracuda and other fish, while keeping the gun very maneuverable.
Hehe, that's a nice way to say they are going to very pricey;). Often is when a website says "contact us for a quote". I like them but I would like them more if they didn't play hide and seek. Abellan and Alemmani has their prices out in the open. You could add options as drop down menus and make it clear anything else is subject to an email discussion.
@@DanielMann If you lived on the Azores and would look for a blue water gun for tuna and wahoo, but also something you could use as a backup on every other shore dive, and a gun for travel, would you get a 115V, 125V or 140V? What would be a reason to choose a 140V?
The conventional Orca evo 120 works out pretty much the same price as a Riffe euro in Australia with a reel etc. Each to their own, if it works for you stick with it 💪
@@DanielMann fear of change and those missed fish lol, I use a 8mm spear with a mori slip tip 2 16mm and 1 14mm for kings and it shoots in same place, love it. Got a 22kg cobia in my home town of wollongong last week, never seen one before. Place is alive at the moment. Love your work.
Thanks for showing how a roller gun is loaded. Sometimes I watch UA-cam videos and can’t tell if a roller gun is loaded or not (as someone who only ever used traditional one/two rubbers on top of spear style gun). It still seems complicated with more potential failure points, is the shooting line well separated from the bands or can it get tangled?
Just convert an Abellan to the gun you want. Their build is similar and Abellans would have even less recoil, and the conversion is infinitely cheaper.
..improving your skillz have more effect then buying fancy expensive tools. for most people out there a different gun is not going to make a difference..
Both yes and no, I think. I consider myself an OK spearo but I have always chased gun performance because not everyone gets to live near the ocean or have the freedom to travel often. So, why not get the best tool in your hand for when you do actually hit the water? Also, there are a lot of shit guns out there. Some from "great names". If you ever spent time in a pool with them and you see them spray shots all over and have little penetration you will soon learn the value of distrusting old brands. And nah, don't say it's about locking your elbow or wrist. There are simply guns out there that comes badly tuned from the factories and sometimes with triggers so bad you can't shoot them consistently. In those cases, I am sure a better gun makes a difference. So, if you want to treat yourself to a gun that shoots provenly well it can never harm.
Hey brother what size shaft for a 115cm future reference. Also i got my first gun coming in to practicrle here in michigan with the great lakes. But hitting up small inner lakes for rn. I grabbed a seac 75 sling sting. What size shaft size should i use? Whats the street knowledge on shaft size bro Haha?
Hi Daniel, greetings from Türkiye. Good luck with your new gun :) Can you share the diameters of rubbers? And If this setup has 2 rubbers with 6.50 shaft, would it still be effective for distance and also penetration
Hasan bey eğer berrak suda ageson ağırlıklı avlanmıyorsanız invert rollerin pek esprisi kalmıyor. Bu zıpkın da yanlış hatırlamıyorsam 8mm sis kullanılıyor çünkü 1.cok güç var. 6.5 mm gibi ince şişler bu güce dayanamaz vibration yaparlar. Bu da isabeti ve hızı etkiler. Kalın şiş hem mesafe hem de penetrasyon açısından uygundur. Benim av stilim bu tüfek için uygun mesela ageson ağırlıklı avlaniyorum berrak sularda. Daniel in dediği gibi bu iş golf oynamak gibi farklı durumlar için farklı sopalar lazım. Bu iş de öyle, 2 lastikle invert kullanmanın manası yok onun yerine çift lastik klasik zıpkınlardan kullanın hem daha pratik.
@@DanielMann hi Daniel, no this speargun setup is owerpowed for 6.5mm shafts. When we shoot, shaft would be vibrating and it effects accuracy, velocity and penetration.
@@virginjesus69 selamlar Karadeniz ve Marmara avcisiyim 100luk tüfek 6.50 2x14mm kullanıyorum gayet memnunum Bazı zamanlar Ege akdenizde dalış fırsatı bulunca gerçekten menzil ve delicilik hiç yeterli gelmiyor Ama bu sorunumu sanırım invert ile değil yine 115lik çift lastik ile çözeceğim
I reached out very early to Orca when I first saw their guns and it was a bit irking but was told Abellan gave his blessings, so it should all be cool. And I think the Orca guys may already have taken that platform a bit further.
Wow this video popped up on my feed right as I started wondering what i should get for my very first speargun! Would you recommend roller guns for those who have difficulty loading other speargun models? (I had chest pain+difficulty loading a Rob Allen tuna gun even though my 3mm wet suit had a chest pad on it 😖)
Hey Jade, I’d say go for thinner bands than a roller. Normal rollers can be quite difficult to load. Twin 14mm bands should be easier to load on the Rob Allen and provide plenty of punch.
I don't know what kind of fish you are hunting, but a speargun with two 14 mm bands and a slightly thinner spear, like the RA Snapper or Mahi, would be easier to load than a Tuna and would be great for hunting many species. You can also get spears with a resting tab midway on the shaft which can make loading even easier. Rollers are great but expensive and not necessarily easier to load. They also have more parts that can break. I'm sure the Orca 115v is an awesome speargun, but it looks like a "ship of the line" of rollers with block and pulley systems and lots of ropes :) If the lines gets tangled or one breaks it looks like it could be complicated to fix compared to a normal speargun or even a standard roller speargun. That said I do use rollers myself (Rob Allen Timberline 90 and 110) and I love them. They shoot like a dream. Another thing I personally like about the Rob Allen spearguns is that they do not use a reverse trigger mechanism. This means that a 90 cm RA will be a bit longer than 90 cm speargun from other brands, but it also means that the loading tabs on the spear is a but further from your chest making it easier to load. If you are really struggling listen to this Noob Spearo podcast where Rochele Davey is talking about loading spearguns (starting around 42m 40s).
I'd say get a fusion speargun, without pulleys. This is called a fusion 1 or fusion 2 and is less complicated than an invert roller. They have a band on top and load very easily but are also much more powerful than a traditional 2-band speargun. For a setup I'd suggest an aluminium 90-100cm gun (reverse mechanism is best), with a 7mm shaft (25+cm overhang for easier aim), harder to get bent upon rock impact too. For bands go for a 1x16mm for the main pair (the main bottom band which connects to the top smaller band) and a 14mm second bottom band. Should load very easily. For pretension/preload I'd say go for 140-150%. Any spearshop that knows how to set up rollers would know how to set up this. And they are very easy to understand intuitively. EDIT: Whatever gun you get, get bands with a small internal hole.
i would agree with everything you said about this spear gun .But. the down side is there no place on the gun to mount a laser optic sight. Sorry just being honest....peace out
May our One True Creator Rabbuna Allah Almighty the One and only True Eternal Living God called " The Father " in the bible protect and bless you with a lot of fish. Ameen
Thank you sir for showing your nice speargun.
Awesome gun Dan!
Kudos to the developers of this gun, it's a beauty and was probably insanely difficult to dial in correctly.
I would like to geek out on the speargun physics, but I don't mean to lecture anyone
Spot on. It's many things improving roller performance compared to a conventional gun. Longer propulsion distance, prestretch (preload), less recoil etc. Smooth acceleration, i.e. acceleration of the shaft over a longer period of time would probably be the biggest factor.
@isaacheimbach1089 What do you mean with insanely difficult to dial in correctly.?
Is less recoil coming from the bands retracting towards the handle and not away from it like on a conventional? Because the shaft will still generate recoil being pushed away from the gun.
@@1V2N1V2 less recoil comes from the shaft being accelerated more equally along the barrel
@isaacheimbach1089 Maybe you mean the same but "equally" is probably less of a correct term than what Aegan above proposed which is that that shaft gets loaded up over a longer distance. So, even if for argument's sake we say a 2 banded classic gun would have the same power input it would happen over a shorter distance and hence recoil would be felt more and possibly unsettle the shaft more. Also, as was eluded too by another commenter, the fact the bands move opposite than the shaft and opposite classic setups is very much why there's less recoil in a "pulley roller". Another factor is the very high handle placement which aligns recoil better than most guns except some Euro pipe guns. And yep, that handle and cutout at the rear was an Abellan feature and used by Orca with his blessing as I understand.
As for it taking time to dial it in, that's likely very true. The Orcas do seemed tuned well. The makers seem like standup people and great spearos so deserve their success.
Amazing description of the gun. It's really interesting seeing how to load the gun easier than I thought
Hey Daniel.
We are a company that manufactures wooden invert roller spearguns and what you say about the recoil is 100% true. A lot of manufacturers falsely advertise about zero recoil which is totally wrong. In fact the recoil is a little less than half of what it would be if this exact speargun had the same rubber bands set up on top as a conventional speargun and the reason is what you mentioned later in the video. You get a 1:2 transmission ratio between the bands and the shaft. That halves the acceleration of the spear shaft which means half the acceleration of the speargun on the opposite direction too, which is the recoil we feel. I say that the recoil is a little less than half because the rubber bands are on the bottom and are moving on the opposite direction of the shaft which reduces the recoil a little more.
Also the fact that the you have a transmission ratio of 1:2 doesn't actually mean that the shaft will get double the speed. Because the power of the rubber bands is exactly the same. What actually happens is you have half the acceleration of the conventional set up but the shaft accelerates for a bigger duration because you use almost the whole length of the speargun to propel the shaft which ends up giving you more speed on the shaft, if the speargun is set up correctly. But it definitely is not double the speed.
Cheers from Greece!
Hey Adrian, i think, you misunderstood what he is saying. He is not telling speed is the double of conventional guns, but on the setup itself, the shaft will move with two times the speed with which the bands will contract. That follows from the geometrycal boundary conditions. When pulley bound to bands moves x, the rope pulling the pulley needs to move 2x, this is a geometrical boundary so no discussion here.
If you want to calculate the recoil power you consider the boundary conditions + momentum balance and setup the energy equation of the speargun as a system. If you want to be very precise, you consider the friction coefficients of every roller in the system + of the dyneema.
@@tunculuc Hi! Yeah that is what 1:2 transmission ratio means. That the shaft moves double the distance that the bands move.
@@AndrianBLUE exactly and out of that follows, that the shaft moves double the distance as the bands do in certain time interval, which means double th speed :)
Btw would you share your website link ? I would like to take a look at your invert rollers.
@@tunculuc Check our about page for the link because links are probably forbidden on the comments.
Thank you Adrian! Very helpful 🙌
Quality stuff Dan! Would love to see a comparison between the guns you have and different reviews from what you’ve found over the years what works best for what situation.
Great video and great description! I especially like your wrap up at the end where you explain that this would not be an all around speargun. I’m looking forward to more Mediterranean videos. Especially in Italy and Greece. 👍👍👍
Thank you sir for sharing a new model roller type speargun.
I love my OceanAmmo "Viperine" 100, teak construction, mid handle for those rock holes, and more than enough range & power with the double bands.
👍🥇🐠
OMG that Dentex shot was sick...i love it
Thank you!
This is beautiful gun!
That speargun beat at the beginning is lit
Thank you!
@@DanielMann Saher the song with us pls. Second the beat of that intro
This vid is - smooth - as - butter! 😄
Nice piece of kit
Hola amigo yo pesco igual con un roller inverter *SilvaSpearguns* y aqui usamos el mismo fusil para casi todas las modalidades de pesca saludos 🇨🇺
That is a slick looking gun - would be rad to see how this roller setup compares to other roller and non-roller setups in a similar fashion like Rob Allen's Max Spear Velocity test series.
Will have to check that series out, never seen those videos!
That video series is great! It won't have a very different performance than standard rollers as far as acceleration/velocity goes, but the total kg load would be higher than in a monoroller since it basically has 1,5 bands (3 bands/2) instead of 1 that the monoroller has. Combined with a bit lower friction and better shaft release from the wishbone, it would shoot better. But probably not better than a double roller.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 I think I agree though part of me also think the roller crowd has underestimated losses in the bands going over the rollers. I think a lot of them think they have great powerful guns, but in reality they have less recoil which leads to better precision (great) and more power going into the shaft instead of the hand. But it's been proven that a perfectly fitted custom ergo grip on a classic gun will tame recoil from even very high powered classic guns. So, a classic gun with a custom handle - despite the shorter effective band pull - is still a very strong contender.
@@AntiVaganza Absolutely, I remember a spearboard member's tests on this with setups like 2x14,5mm at 3.8 stretch. Which also increases band pull. It really depends on the setup. For example a 7mm invert might be somewhat slow and not worth for its loading effort compared to even a light single roller, but with a lighter shaft it could work great. Then there are other types of guns like fusion, which kind of combines the two. Roller definitely have an issue with their muzzles though, shaft's tail is slightly lifted and at long shots they do lose some accuracy.
Short and sweet video. That's a very impressive speargun can't wait to see all the new adventures with it.
Cheers James!
Received mine a week ago…beautiful speargun, I love it!
And you are the one who introduced me to it😂
My friend also put the circular around the top, with 8mm 150cm spear, and it is absolute cannon now.
What do they cost
Around 1600€
Anche il canova r1 è fantastico, by cetma
Daniel you, according my opinion and language level (I live in Russia) gives good explanation and very understandable language for non native speaker, I am quiet about native speaker, and your opinion about this speargun nice, I don`t know will other buy or not orca, but anyway good job, hold on this way, thank you very much!!!
Thank you very much, I am glad you can understand me!
Inverts (polispasts) having higher shaft speed is a myth. They have the same as rollers and in fact have less initial shaft speed that traditional guns. Smooth acceleration (and a couple other things, like higher kg load, pretension/preload, and longer propulsion distance) is what gives rollers and polispasts much more power. They basically develop more force + they lose their stored energy slower (i.e. they sustain it better). Ergo they travel farther away, but the shaft speed is pretty much the same - it is just sustained for longer.
This has been measured with tools (in the channel of Spearfish gr I reckon. Title is "traditional vs roller speargun" or something similar).
Theoretically, if the bands contracted slower it would mean they have to pull a 2x heavier shaft. But they don't, the shaft is the same as it would be in a classical three-band. What happens is that the bands go through 2x the dyneema length through the pulleys, at the same speed. The bands don't contract slower, they just contract for half (-50%) of the distance they would in a standard roller or a full invert without pulleys. It's distance covered, not speed, that changes compared to a non-pulley speargun. Basically what a couple other spearos said in the comments.
Hope everything is understandable :) english is my second language
EDIT: Anyone wanting to check shaft velocity himself can go to the calculator created by Spiller, J. (2021) in his scientific study. Measures velocity, penetration, recoil and other things.
My friend...
In your first paragraph you say something that has no logic at all... You say that invert roller spearguns have same or less speed but the shaft travels further because it sustains the energy for longer.... You do not understand physics at all.... From the moment the shaft has stopped being pushed from the rubber bands or the dyneema line it starts decelerating. It doesn't matter in what way it accelerated. Only 3 things matter. Exit speed, drag resistance, weight. Since drag resistance and weight are the same (we are talking about the same shaft) the only variable that will affect how long the shaft will go is the exit speed. Nothing else. So the only way the shaft can travel further is if it has higher exit speed. Simple physics.
Also you say that invert rollers are more powerful because of a bunch of reasons but with same or lower shaft speed.. Wrong. The kinetic energy of the shaft is what matters. The formula is
K.E=1/2*m*v^2.
So from what you can see the only 2 variables that affect the shaft's kinetic energy is it's mass and it's speed. So for the shaft to have more kinetic energy (which means more penetration) it has to have higher speed, since its mass is not changing...
You clearly don't understand the physics behind a moveable pulley system.... The bands contract at half the speed that the shaft is moving. This is a fact. That is what the moveable pulley system does... The moveable pulley moves half the distance that the shaft will move during the contraction of the bands. So since the shaft moves double the distance the pulley does in the same amount of time this means that the shaft moves with double the speed in comparison to the pulley which means with the bands since the bands pull the pulley directly. This is not up for discussion...
Please study the physics first and then try to give information about the subject.
@@AndrianBLUE The issue here is that I too used to think that inverts have higher speed which would explain their better shots, but when measured, it turned out they don't. What they have is mainly smoother acceleration. There are no other vids besides Bekas' testing this, Rob Allen already tested rollers (found the same thing as Bekas: no higher speed, just smoother acceleration) and he's about to test inverts too. Guess we'll see if his results are similar to Bekas.
A roller and an invert have about the same max shaft speed with a classic gun. You are free to conduct your own tests and show otherwise. Physics doesn't disagree with this either since you can increase acceleration without increasing speed (or mass). Maybe it's you who doesn't understand physics? Because there's no other explanation, currently all tests have shown no higher speed than classic guns. With this piece of proof we can deduct that the theory of rollers and inverts having higher speed is a myth, and any physics law used to explain this is simply misused since physics can't be wrong - the only one who can be wrong is one making a claim that does not agree with empirical testing.
Anecdotally it makes sense too. A double roller will have about the same performance as a three-banded invert, when the two guns having the same shaft mass and the same kg load on the shaft (let's say 60 or 70). If inverts had double shaft speed then inverts would shoot MUCH farther with the same kg load and shaft mass. But they don't. And there's no pulley in rollers "doubling their speed" and yet a 2x14mm roller shoots astronomically better than a simple 2x14mm gun.
As for band contraction, I think we disagree on semantics and not on the subject. The material of the bands and the weight does not change so their contraction speed does not change but the speed at which they cover distance does. Different phrasing, same thing.
It's basically half that of a normal roller, so if that's doubled in the shaft, then the max speed remains the same as in a roller or in a classic gun. Even in the scenario where the shaft speed is doubled, the max speed remains the same as in a roller or classic, lol. Good luck proving it's double than roller shaft speed (and basically quadruple than that of rollers and classic guns).
You're free to ask Bekas about this and then conduct your own tests. I'll be coming back to this comment when mr Allen publishes his results on inverts.
I forgot to add: This isn't a conversation about whether invert or roller shaft speed is doubled compared to classic guns. Tests have already been conducted about this and the theory that they do have double speed was falsified. This is how the scientific method works, if your theory does not agree with reality then the problem lies with your theory, not reality.
We are merely theorizing about why this happens - greater power with similar maximum speed.
As for physics, f=ma would account for the force of the shaft at a given moment. If you combine all moments (let's say per second) you'll find the force of the roller and invert gun being higher due to smoother deceleration. In other words, they shed less (a) and this in turn allows them to shed less kinetic energy, and maintain it better. Net force per second (N/s) applied on the shaft is higher in rollers and inverts, including because of preload. Net force charges the object with KE (you can read this exact sentence in Britannica). KE=f^2. Rollers and inverts are charged (i.e. force is applied to their shafts) over a longer period of time and lose energy slower. Ergo they achieve better shots because the spear can maintain it's speed better.
I did a quick search and there are studies out on this. Look up Worthington, J. (2017) to see how much the load (N) is increased in rollers compared to classic guns. Then check out Spiller, J. (2021) to see how muzzle velocity of rollers is 33 m/s (39.9 m/s with a booster), same measurement as Bekas and Rob Allen found (and lower than a classic gun). So we already know that 130cm double rollers who shoot at 7m have about as much muzzle velocity as a classic gun with a similar force load (N) and shaft mass. You can also see how he measured a roller+booster with 304J of spear energy and a three-banded invert with 312J of spear energy at 39.9 m/s and 40.4 m/s muzzle velocities respectively, with a 7mm shaft. The penetration was also the same (38 and 39 cm).
Even with an overpowered invert, there's no double speed. This is official physics research, so please educate yourself before getting all upset on youtube comments.
Nonetheless, dive safe :)
Also: I tried the speargun calculator from Spiller (2021), thought I'd mention the results. A 2x16mm roller comes up as having the same muzzle velocity as a 4x16mm invert (1 doubled main pair + 2 additional pairs). Both guns have 1kg mass (a conventional tube gun), 1m loading length with 1.25m 8mm shafts. Muzzle velocity is 32 m/s and 32.3 m/s respectively, and remains almost equal (equally decreasing) up to 8 meters. The invert has 18% higher recoil, but I assume less friction (which is not calculated).
Give it a try, you'll like it.
EDIT: Managed to get the invert to shoot faster than the roller, at 1m/s and 1cm extra penetration (consistently from muzzle to 8m). 2kg mass, 1.2m loading length, 1.45m shaft length 8mm, 338J (roller) and 360J (invert) on the shaft.
Roller is 2x16mm, invert has the more common 1x19mm (not doubled) + 2x18mm. All bands at 310% stretch and the 19mm at 320-330%.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 My friend I did not say anywhere that an invert roller speargun has double the speed of a classic speargun.... You did not understand what I said at all. What I said is that the shaft on the speargun moves at double the speed in respect to the speed that it's rubber bands are moving... Not double the speed than the spear shaft of a classic speargun... What I also said was that from the moment the shaft leaves the speargun, it doesn't matter how it was shot. It just matter what it's speed is. The higher the speed the higher the momentum and kinetic energy it has.
We have not done any tests to scientifically measure speeds yet, and we do not easily accept what results others publish because we do not know how correctly their experiments have been done.
But nowhere did I say anything about the speed of the invert roller being double in respect to a classic speargun...
great footage , can't wait to see what u got from giacomo
Thank you so much. Am looking for this brand spear gun
Its very technically well made invert roller gun I ever seen it Salvimar hero had also similar design back years ago in terms of recoil.I wonder the range of this beauty ?
I’m considering starting spearfishing, so there’s no experience behind my question. I really like the no-recoil (no discernible), the quickness of the shaft, all make sense. As did the golf clubs comment, but i couldn’t consider a “set” of spearguns in reality. If you had one gun to buy for coastal spearfishing, what small selection of guns would you consider, then settle on which one?
Depends what your coast looks like but a 90-100 is a really versatile gun for all sorts of diving.
at the rate these spear guns are being developed I foresee underwater scopes, IR scopes and magazines. I'm a bit paranoid so I prefer to reload quickly. You never know.... our friend Mr Shark might just see me as a snack.
Great review 👍
Cheers Chris - fingers crossed we'll get to dive this summer with Mike!
Great review
Great video Daniel 👌
On your Evo 100 with 7.5 shaft you should try 14,5 small id bands instead of the 16mm ( default setup) at 350/360 % 🤫😉
Καλησπέρα φίλε μου, μπράβο σας τι λάστιχα έχει ,
very nice gun.
My name is Daniel Mann, and this is my last speargun 🤣🤣
Hope you had a good night bro, gun looks sick 😎
Great night, so so morning.
Looks like a nice gun. Have you had the chance to test out the Aimrite guns? Only reason I ask is they are Australian made. All about supporting a local product.
I haven’t used any Aimrite products for about 10 years. I didn’t have great experiences with the guns I used but they do look like they have undergone a lot of development in recent years. I guess Spain is more local to me now than Australia.
Dan, I have to commend you on your honesty. In this thread alone, you have been brutally honest about both Riffe and Aimrite. @@DanielMann . I mean, yes you are shill for this gun, haha, but it's easy to do when the product is solid and has actually incorporated what has been learned design and tuning wise the last 10 years instead of, well not doing that;).
I have never shot an Orca but I have shot Abellans and if potential spearos educate themselves a bit, meaning away from the catalogues and brands' webpages, they'll notice some traits that makes for good guns. And Orca ticks the boxes. (Also standing blessed on the shoulders of a known giant is a great starting point).
Ottimo prodotto complimenti per l'acquisto.
Hi Daniel, could you please review Greek made Neptunus invert roller spearguns if you have a chance?
I'm not sure I'll ever own one of those but they do look great.
Epic speargun!
I think I will buy one myself, it looks and sounds unreal!
Can you please tell me is your speargun with white and matte finish, I love how it looks!
Would you go for the V.125 or V.140 for bluefin tuna in the Atlantic?
Smaller version of this gun on the UK website sits @ £1650...bit on expensive side when you would have to actually buy it..
Totally agree. I think the price point is way over the top when you think about the components. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful speargun, but like anything, a price point is set to what some are willing to pay. Although I could buy one, I wouldn't as I don't think it is worth the money. Other guns out there for half that price that do the same job.
Yes they are quite expensive but all made in Spain from a small family business. The conventional two band guns are around a similar price to a Riffe euro. Components are one thing but the labour involved and cost of making moulds for each speargun is huge. I’ve made my own carbon fibre guns before and they take a long time to make.
@CloseCall can I ask which website you saw it on in the UK?
@@SpanishSpearo Agreed. Bleutec carbon rollers and inverts are half the price or even less.
@@__fraser Hi, not sure but looks like my answer is under review or something, just look for "spearguns in the uk" its the one with spearfishing in its name
I own a orca evo 120 and I would like to know what is the best config I can use for Mediterranean with this gun ? Thanks in advance
I can feel the envy building up inside me 😁
Looks great
The reel seems to be covering where the bands lock into? Like to see more
Nah, on guns like these, the reel sits on a U-shaped bracket. Imagine the U lying down with the open end towards the muzzle - the bands slide in there to hook onto their attachment points. Back in the day, some builders didn't have this bracket and would either end the bands in front of the reel losing a lot of band pull length or you'd have to pull the bands over the reel which was possibly cumbersome.
Beautiful looking gun, but, I have to say I do love a good handmade teak speargun. There's something about the craftsmanship. Yes they are heavy out of the water, but makes little difference in the water. I think your mate Tim is also partial to a wooden gun.
I’ve made over 100 timber guns since 2005. Eventually I ended up making fully composite spearguns. Mainly due to the design limitations of timber and the maintenance. All of Tim’s Riffe euros were water logged when I met him. They would get so heavy at the end of the day and bone dry after drying out. I finished them with clear epoxy and the gun performed way better. I do like the look of timber but I’m a practical man and less maintenance the better!
@@DanielMann I understand the maintenance fact, but how is wood design limiting, especially with CNC machines and stuff?
Also, while nicely designed, Orca seems limited because there is no place to mount conventional kicker band that in most cases changes things for better, especially with thicker shafts.
My friend will test it soon and compare it to some Croatian and Slovenian guns so feel free to contact if you are curious about results.
Best wishes
@@jurejurinovic7246 Hello Jure, sorry for our intrusion, I just wanted to answer that if it is possible to add a conventional band at the top, it is not installed on this model since due to its size and type of prey it is very capable of making catches more complicated, in sizes superiors such as V-125 or Diablo 140 model, are added without any problem, we will show it shortly. Thanks for the appreciation, we always take spearos' suggestions to keep improving.
Jure, the timber has to be of a certain thickness for strength. With carbon fibre you can make intricate parts very small without worrying about strength.
@@DanielMann I have a Pathos roller and love that also. Just find the shooting line gets tangled on the end sometimes. Happened once with quite a nice fish in front of me, but probably my poor shooting line choice (user error). Perhaps a carbon / timber mix is good, I was wondering what the newish Rob Allen ones are like.
What a Gangster Gun/vid bra
Very nice Speargun I wish I gift like that Speargun to me 😅 Hello watching from Boracay Philippines me too I was spearfishing Day & night Dive spearfishing
Hey @DanielMann ! awesome video as always ! im looking for my first spear gun do you have any recommendations? I will hunt mostly in Croatia (adriatic sea). what do you thing about Salvimar Hero Roller Sling Speargun 105cm ?
Carbon Rollers 😍😍
Absolutely love my V125 so far!! Thinking I will go to 16mm bands from the 14s though for more punch as my “reason” for having it is chasing large pelagics. Thoughts?
No reason not to!
Inverts/polispasts can take a pretty big load, especially carbon ones. A typical setup used in Greece is 1x19mm main pair + 2x16 (or 2x17,5mm) with 7,5-8mm shafts.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 awesome! Thanks for the advice!
@@ImpactZoneSpearfishing No problem mate
Happy hunting and dive safe :)
Use circular 14mm like I do, adds great speed to the shaft!
i think me too but cant afford😂😂😂
There are plenty of aluminium invert/polispasts with three or even four pairs of bands for a few hundred €s in the market.
Roller systems are great because they don't require exotic materials to work well and with minimal recoil.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 like ?
@@islemarhab8536 MVD guns come already set up as rollers or inverts.
Converting any conventional Mares or Pathos or Meandros or Salvimar etc to roller/invert also comes much cheaper. Even a fiberglass roller/invert from Bleutec would cost less.
Everybody get crazy about rollers, ivert rollers, 120cm invert as a first gun?
If we're talking about Mediterranean, do you really need such powerful gun to shoot sargo 500g?
Do you really need a gun that shoot in a distance of 6m? or better to improve your ambrush/aguatto technic and fish will come closer?
I had personally roller, tried it for a year and after I switched to conventional C4 Mr Carbon. Way way less pain loading it, amazing precise and enough power to shot almost anything in Greece. (Ofc we don't talking here about 50kg tuna etc).
Do you feel recoil from the gun? - as Jobs said 'you just hold it wrong'.
the most funniest thing, every spearfishing forum has tons of huge rollers guns on sale, but a very few conventionals.
Rollers have a larger learning curve and they're trendy so many will buy a couple but never use them.
I'm Greek and many here use rollers and inverts. However we use shorter guns (85-95cm) for aspetto. The firepower doesn't exceed 5m usually. That's ideal for 750gr-1kg sargo as well as goldblotch groupers, barracuda and other fish, while keeping the gun very maneuverable.
Hey Dan i hope alls well!! PITA trying to find one for sale!!! R they that pricey that they only make them upon special request?
They are made to order yes and some people have different requirements so it’s hard to price everything on the website.
Hehe, that's a nice way to say they are going to very pricey;). Often is when a website says "contact us for a quote".
I like them but I would like them more if they didn't play hide and seek. Abellan and Alemmani has their prices out in the open. You could add options as drop down menus and make it clear anything else is subject to an email discussion.
Congratulations! Enjoy it, what a marvel.
Wow nice
Wow bro ❤
Merch! Merch! I need Merch! Got any shirts coming in?
Off touring Europe for the next two months, perhaps after that!
Oh mannnn! I want one!.... But I don't need one...... But I want one!!
When is the video on the diablo 140 V coming? :D
I don't have one but it's pretty similar just longer and fatter at the rear.
@@DanielMann If you lived on the Azores and would look for a blue water gun for tuna and wahoo, but also something you could use as a backup on every other shore dive, and a gun for travel, would you get a 115V, 125V or 140V? What would be a reason to choose a 140V?
Sad thing is it's not available every where!
Looks awesome, think I'll stick with my 120 euro riffe though.
The conventional Orca evo 120 works out pretty much the same price as a Riffe euro in Australia with a reel etc. Each to their own, if it works for you stick with it 💪
@@DanielMann fear of change and those missed fish lol, I use a 8mm spear with a mori slip tip 2 16mm and 1 14mm for kings and it shoots in same place, love it. Got a 22kg cobia in my home town of wollongong last week, never seen one before. Place is alive at the moment. Love your work.
Thanks for showing how a roller gun is loaded. Sometimes I watch UA-cam videos and can’t tell if a roller gun is loaded or not (as someone who only ever used traditional one/two rubbers on top of spear style gun). It still seems complicated with more potential failure points, is the shooting line well separated from the bands or can it get tangled?
Definitely more failure points of course but I’ve not experienced any issues. The shooting line is well away and works great with the reel.
Brother that gun is laser fast. I would love to have one but I have absolutely no need for a gun like that
I went and got some abellans recently and have instant regret I didn’t get some orca guns instead 😢
Abellans is not like it used to be, it changed when the company was brought by a new owner
Just convert an Abellan to the gun you want. Their build is similar and Abellans would have even less recoil, and the conversion is infinitely cheaper.
Use my Abellan Denton since 2009 , solid piece and no worries 😊
@@fadizakzouk2084 who is the new owner
Wow that is a sexy gun for sure! Thanks for sharing, always enjoying your adventures Mate! 🔱Be safe, God Speed!
Could u tell some about the pathos sniper r if u ve tried itit before ?
I am using it on here in crete
I’ve not tried it sorry but most pathos stuff is high quality.
..improving your skillz have more effect then buying fancy expensive tools. for most people out there a different gun is not going to make a difference..
Both yes and no, I think. I consider myself an OK spearo but I have always chased gun performance because not everyone gets to live near the ocean or have the freedom to travel often. So, why not get the best tool in your hand for when you do actually hit the water?
Also, there are a lot of shit guns out there. Some from "great names". If you ever spent time in a pool with them and you see them spray shots all over and have little penetration you will soon learn the value of distrusting old brands. And nah, don't say it's about locking your elbow or wrist. There are simply guns out there that comes badly tuned from the factories and sometimes with triggers so bad you can't shoot them consistently. In those cases, I am sure a better gun makes a difference.
So, if you want to treat yourself to a gun that shoots provenly well it can never harm.
Does he sell in the US?
All over the world.
Hey brother what size shaft for a 115cm future reference. Also i got my first gun coming in to practicrle here in michigan with the great lakes. But hitting up small inner lakes for rn. I grabbed a seac 75 sling sting. What size shaft size should i use? Whats the street knowledge on shaft size bro Haha?
It really depends on what you like for the overhang and the style of gun. For my 75cm pipe gun I'm using a 120cm shaft.
@DanielMann thank you bro
The price broke my heart
So much worthy
How much is it in U.S. dollars ? Looking for a new gun I wanna use something different then what everyone else is using in hawaii
Not sure, you’d have to send them an email 👌
Hi Daniel, greetings from Türkiye.
Good luck with your new gun :)
Can you share the diameters of rubbers?
And If this setup has 2 rubbers with 6.50 shaft, would it still be effective for distance and also penetration
They are 16mm. I’m not sure as I’ve never tried the 6.5mm but I’m sure it would move very fast.
Hasan bey eğer berrak suda ageson ağırlıklı avlanmıyorsanız invert rollerin pek esprisi kalmıyor. Bu zıpkın da yanlış hatırlamıyorsam 8mm sis kullanılıyor çünkü 1.cok güç var. 6.5 mm gibi ince şişler bu güce dayanamaz vibration yaparlar. Bu da isabeti ve hızı etkiler. Kalın şiş hem mesafe hem de penetrasyon açısından uygundur. Benim av stilim bu tüfek için uygun mesela ageson ağırlıklı avlaniyorum berrak sularda. Daniel in dediği gibi bu iş golf oynamak gibi farklı durumlar için farklı sopalar lazım. Bu iş de öyle, 2 lastikle invert kullanmanın manası yok onun yerine çift lastik klasik zıpkınlardan kullanın hem daha pratik.
@@DanielMann hi Daniel, no this speargun setup is owerpowed for 6.5mm shafts. When we shoot, shaft would be vibrating and it effects accuracy, velocity and penetration.
@@virginjesus69 selamlar Karadeniz ve Marmara avcisiyim
100luk tüfek 6.50 2x14mm kullanıyorum gayet memnunum
Bazı zamanlar Ege akdenizde dalış fırsatı bulunca gerçekten menzil ve delicilik hiç yeterli gelmiyor
Ama bu sorunumu sanırım invert ile değil yine 115lik çift lastik ile çözeceğim
@@HasanYMete evet en basit cozum o. Ama ben de invert sisteme gecmek istiyorum çünkü gerçekten gerçekten füze gibi. Ve tepme yok gibi bir şey
Where can you purchase this gun?
@@MakaniWhite link in description
@@DanielMann thanks
Good day sir,,do you have another you tube channel? someone replied on my comment on one of your videos and it's your profile in that channel.
what a new one... 👍🌹
Is it matte or glossy? Pls
Can be either
Looks very much like a Roller Denton (Abellan Sub) made of carbon.
Very similar, also great spearguns.
I reached out very early to Orca when I first saw their guns and it was a bit irking but was told Abellan gave his blessings, so it should all be cool. And I think the Orca guys may already have taken that platform a bit further.
Wow this video popped up on my feed right as I started wondering what i should get for my very first speargun!
Would you recommend roller guns for those who have difficulty loading other speargun models? (I had chest pain+difficulty loading a Rob Allen tuna gun even though my 3mm wet suit had a chest pad on it 😖)
Hey Jade, I’d say go for thinner bands than a roller. Normal rollers can be quite difficult to load. Twin 14mm bands should be easier to load on the Rob Allen and provide plenty of punch.
I don't know what kind of fish you are hunting, but a speargun with two 14 mm bands and a slightly thinner spear, like the RA Snapper or Mahi, would be easier to load than a Tuna and would be great for hunting many species. You can also get spears with a resting tab midway on the shaft which can make loading even easier.
Rollers are great but expensive and not necessarily easier to load. They also have more parts that can break. I'm sure the Orca 115v is an awesome speargun, but it looks like a "ship of the line" of rollers with block and pulley systems and lots of ropes :) If the lines gets tangled or one breaks it looks like it could be complicated to fix compared to a normal speargun or even a standard roller speargun.
That said I do use rollers myself (Rob Allen Timberline 90 and 110) and I love them. They shoot like a dream. Another thing I personally like about the Rob Allen spearguns is that they do not use a reverse trigger mechanism. This means that a 90 cm RA will be a bit longer than 90 cm speargun from other brands, but it also means that the loading tabs on the spear is a but further from your chest making it easier to load.
If you are really struggling listen to this Noob Spearo podcast where Rochele Davey is talking about loading spearguns (starting around 42m 40s).
Oh and if you still have access to the RA Tuna it wouldn't cost a lot to try putting 14 mm bands and a 7 mm spear on it :)
I'd say get a fusion speargun, without pulleys. This is called a fusion 1 or fusion 2 and is less complicated than an invert roller. They have a band on top and load very easily but are also much more powerful than a traditional 2-band speargun.
For a setup I'd suggest an aluminium 90-100cm gun (reverse mechanism is best), with a 7mm shaft (25+cm overhang for easier aim), harder to get bent upon rock impact too.
For bands go for a 1x16mm for the main pair (the main bottom band which connects to the top smaller band) and a 14mm second bottom band. Should load very easily. For pretension/preload I'd say go for 140-150%.
Any spearshop that knows how to set up rollers would know how to set up this. And they are very easy to understand intuitively.
EDIT: Whatever gun you get, get bands with a small internal hole.
@@KristianGrSl Yeah 2x14mm with a small internal hole at 320-330% stretch would work fine. They would have some recoil though.
Daniel, is there a safety?
Yes, when it’s unloaded.
This gun is a Mediterranean spearfisherman's wet dream ..
3 woods make an Ok putter.
How much are these
You'd have to send an email as they are all custom setup for each person.
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1750 is price... heavy...
Speargun porn music at intro.
First 👌🏼
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i would agree with everything you said about this spear gun .But. the down side is there no place on the gun to mount a laser optic sight. Sorry just being honest....peace out
Right common how much let my eyes water? How much? In £….
forget about those tiny little fish in the Mediterranean you should to Florida and catch some real fish
Shot plenty of ‘real’ fish in Australia, love the challenge of the Mediterranean!
May our One True Creator Rabbuna Allah Almighty the One and only True Eternal Living God called " The Father " in the bible protect and bless you with a lot of fish. Ameen
Those poor european fish. Breaks my heart to see the last Dentex go down.
Why?
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