@@ziyadtarek910 well yeah but the lions can make a ladder, also- if one pokemon levels the universe, that one will be the only one to survive. They might level the universe, but consider: 1 billion is a lot. No way a single pokemon can take on 1 billion lions, not even Arceus, Giratina or Ultra Necrozma
@@Seven_DB Is it not obvious? Fither puts the utmost levels of research in all of his videos, only to be matched by the likes of Harvard students and your high school English teacher explaining how the door being red is related to the state of 3rd world countries.
Demi-Fiend would win because Joker isn’t here, which means Morgana is on act freely. Morgana would be too stupid to use common sense and cast Salvation EVER. Easy.
To be fair, potter wouldn’t have any effect on the battle at all. Do I need to remind you that Demifiend fought and killed gods and devils with his *bare hands* ? What’s Ren gonna do? Bleed on him?
@@akashicays they’re very mysterious. For all we know, they could be Born in flames, blessed by Igor. And Igor’s family crest is probably a demon of death.
Fun fact: In Strikers, Salvation is buffed to not only be a Mediarahan + Amrita Shower, but the move also - I fucking kid you not - acts as a FULL PARTY samarecarm. If you use Strikers Morgana, a single Morgana can bring 999 other Morganas back to life in a single move.
An uncharged Gaea Rage in DDS does over Morgana’s max HP so if Demifiend has at least 30 agility before equiping Masakado he could use his max speed to move first and clap every Morgana’s cheeks in one fell swoop.
I like to imaging ryugi is rooting for the Demi-fiend because of how annoying morgana is. And everyone is sitting there thinking “why is he rooting for the other team?”
If the press turn system is in effect Morganas get a huge advantage in turns, unless he hasn't played smt before and wastes all his turns hitting the invincible guy.
@@kaiserwave5977 But it's Almighty, so it's probably Almighty/Gun, instead of Almighty/Magic. We can come together and agree that Freikugal becoming stronger the Magic stay is dumb, right? Let's have a balanced hierarchical type system like in Demikids and Digimon: Cyber Sleuth, 'aight?
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 But that's just a stat-based attack. It doesn't change the fact it isn't Physical or Gun/Almighty, while all other elements have the Magickal sec. type.
A couple cracked circumstances in which the Demi-fiend can win to consider: 1. Makarakarn: In the games this effect lasts one turn, so it's obv not permanent or even prolonged. It also reflects a single spell per cast, but imagine DF parrying Garuladyne spells a la Daigo Umehara, or even just reflecting the barrage back into the horde of Morgs. 2. Demi-fiend insults Morgana once and demoralizes him into running away, again 3. pspsps into spray bottle combo
Demi-Fiend 100% wins. It's considered a joke move but you forgot about Wild Dance. Demi-Fiend could use it at the beginning of the fight to immediately make most all of the Morgana's really stupid, therefore they would have zero chance to coordinate any of the complex tactics that would create their win condition. Ann watching would make them even less likely to do so.
Ok so gun attacks probably would not hurt demi-fiend in the context of nocturne (not IV). It would probably be classified as a physical attack because raidou and dante both have an attack that uses a gun and both of their gun moves are classified as physical attacks
Not only that, Morgana's max HP in royal (with Diego) is 492. The Demi-Fiend can easily deal that with a single attack. Especially with charge, or if we go by DDS rules; a single gaea rage does 3000-30 000 damage. If he can target everyone at once, he wins. Unless he misses even one. Which he might; considering Morgana's high agility and buffs/debuffs.
Morgana would be able to do damage to Demifiend with his slingshot, here's why. Raidou and Dante use guns, but there is not a gun element in nocturne. In DDS there are two new elements, being gun and earth. Since they were not in nocturne, he is not immune to those elements. The slingshot is considered to be a gun. We can conclude that he is vulnerable to the slingshot, and the Morganas may have a chance to win as a result.
@@dewo277e9 Is it the DDS version or not? In nocturne it is not actually that good. It can also miss. Also he takes a bit to charge it up. It should not be a turn based battle.
@@mishiim I'm saying they sounded really new to voice acting. I'm not a voice actor so what would I know. But to me it sounded forced and awkward. I stopped watching cuz of that. If other like it cool. I like the concept just not that and the cardboard people.
We can take all gameplay knowledge we have: DemiFiend does not null gun. Everyone has turns, everything can affect turns as usual. If we want to get REALLY gameplay-ish, there are horde battles in SMT IV- IV Apocalypse, that would make the Morgana horde pretty weak because of the 3 turn restriction... there's just too much stuff going on
It seems like the question boils down to in-universe power vs. in-game power. Using the latter, the Morganas have a real chance. Going by the former, Demi-Fiend punched out a multiverse and then went on to throw hands with a Lucifer who should be the fourth strongest thing around (behind The Great Axiom, Stephen, and YHWH), at least with how he's depicted in Nocturne (I'm aware certain games downscale Lucifer, but in Nocturne, he's clearly a big deal, clearly above the other chief angels (Michael, Metatron), demons (Beelzebub, Satan), and even entities like Kagatsuchi. So by in-story power, I'm pretty sure he can't even feel Morgana.
Demi fiend would easily win. But I'd like to imagine that if he's really that weak to guns, I'd find it funny that one way he could be killed is being pelted by Morgana's slingshot
I dont know how much damage that slingshot do but he needs to pul it 18k damage and 1 attack to pulm him down considering demi fiend in DDS 1 has 18k health bar and broken agility
@Declan McKenna if a unison of cats transform into minivans and then in run someone over in perfect synchronization(otherwise they hit each other) and thus killing them isnt considered a showtime attack, than showtime attacks do not exist in that universe.
I feel like I we’re gonna say that Morgana’s skills like salvation affect all the living morganas then demifiends skills like gaea rage should also affect all the living morganas. So I really think it comes down to who goes first
Haven’t played an SMT game but if we played by Persona rules, then it entirely depends on if he has dodge electric because then Demi-Fiend might get one more a hundred times before a Morgana dodges lol. Also I just realized this and I think it’s fitting that Ryuji and Morgana are weak to each other’s respective elements lol.
The weakness dynamics in Persona games are pretty neat. In P5 the only one i didnt really get was Makoto and Haru? Ann and Yusuke makes sense, as does Morgana and Ryuji, potentially Joker and Akechi assuming its Arsene VS Robin Hood P3 probably had it best since they werent just opposing elements (Fire V Ice, Elec V Wind etc), I dunno. It was just nice having Junpei (fire) be weak to Yukari (Wind), Akihiko (Elec) weak to Mitsuru (Ice) and so on.
And if you dont know, In smt the amount of actions your party gets in a turn is based off of the number of members. If morgana acts first by Smt rules then he practically wins by default. 1000 Actions vs 1... UNLESS THEY HIT AN ELEMENT THAT HE REFLECTS. Then they lose all of their actions. So morgana, PLAY SMART.
@@theluminousone5883 I doubt Morgana would go first though since at lvl99 his agility is at most...80? 90? Whereas Hitoshura doesnt have such a level cap and can max out his stats Assuming hes in NG+, he gets 2 press turns instead of 1. Under the assumption he either crits with physical skills or uses bolt storm, thats 4 half press turns. Those extra turns being used for either makarakarn or tetrakarn? Wind break cant bypass those, and Hitoshura doing 2 attacks bypasses Morganas innate endure too :/ This is...an annoyingly fun topic to think about
@@theluminousone5883 the problem is that morgana does not have any attacks that can hurt the demi-fiend, so either the simps army loses all thousand turns with the first move or spends a thousand turns buffing their defense so as not to die in the first hit
Bold of you to assume that the battle takes place in the Metaverse. Yes, it would be incredibly unfair to have the fight take place in the real world, but since he's an actual demon (as opposed to a human or shadow) I'm not sure that the Demi-fiend can even enter the Metaverse and besides.....is he really going to play fair? Like any mainline SMT protagonist, he's a stone cold MFer who only survived to see the end of his game by ruthlessly exploiting the weaknesses of his enemies and killing two former friends. I think it's more likely that he'll kick down the door to LeBlanc and punch 1000 housecat Morganas into a fine red paste one by one while Sojiro and the Phantom Thieves look on in horror, powerless to stop him. Also if he's got his demons, Demi-fiend can just wipe them all out with Beelzebub's Death Flies, easy win GG.
Fither: “I’m not a powerscaler” Also Fither: “The femboy literally just bodied the guy who bodied smt god. Submission is inevitable.” All jokes aside you’re actually not bad at powerscaling. (Especially after Nahobino rolled up cuz holy shit)
The Demi-fiend appearance in Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner is what sells it for me. Specifically, that version of Gaea Rage shows what the skill would look like in a different game (I do realize it wasn't great in Nocturne). DDS has an HP cap for the party of 999, and Gaea Rage hits everything for a couple thousand damage. I feel like the same pattern would happen in this fight - the Demi-fiend plays around for a bit, decides the Wind Break and debuff spam is BS, and then just Gaea Rage's and wipes out the lot of them. Any survive, he just does it again, or picks them off with Freikugel.
I swear, every time Demifiend comes up in this sort of discussion people forget that his actual vanilla level cap is 255, and because of the difference in levels and smt-verse damage formula a level 99 character would barely scratch a level 255 one
Even assuming Demi-Fiend has the Masakados Magatama equipped, Mrogana has a damage source available - as seen in DDS, Gun damage can still damage through Masakados, because SMT3 doesn't have gun. If we assume Demifiend is capped at 999 HP (a fair assumption, since you're mentioning his 255 level cap, something that doesn't apply in his DDS bonus boss, even though he has more HP there), there are 1000 Morganas. So even if each bullet only deals 1 damage due to the sheer level difference, they have a guranteed kill. If we use Demifiend's DDS HP pool, we have 18,000 HP to deal with. All of Morgana's guns have exactly 5 rounds, so assuming he doesn't have a magazine upgrade from Gun Customization, each Morgana can fire for 5 damage. This is slightly optimistic, but even Morgana's leas accurate gun has 90 accuracy, so I think it's fair to say that 1000 Morganas could deal between 4000-5000 damage with nothing but gun spam. This isn't quite enough, but if we give Morgana the best possible gear he can (Demifiend is already packing Masakados), we can increase his odds. If we let Morgana use his ultimate gun, Sudarshana EX, his bullets have the High Dizzy trait - from having played a lot of P5R, I know that if you inflict an ailment in the middle of spamming bullets, _and_ the ailment can be technical'd, you can do so starting from the next shot. Gun element _can_ cause technical damage off of Dizzy. Again assuming Morgana has the best gear possible, Joker will have Maxed the Phantom Thieves Technical Rank, guranteeing a knockdown on a technical. Now, an All Out Attack would normally deal an appreciable amount of damage even to a boss, but Demifiend is level 255 - but on the flip-side, there are 1000 Morganas, so their all out attack would have more power packed into it than a normal one. 250 times more powerful, if I'm running my maths right. I don't know how to reliably calculate the odds of this knockdown occuring (90% bullet his, high dizzy procs, another bullet hits), or how much damage an All Out Attack would do. But with enough luck, I think the Morgana Hoarde could turn it around. A perfect victory for a trickster!
@@Tommyvang187 Yes, but that's because their guns are physical element. A game with gun element spells, like DDS or Persona 5, would be able to damage him with guns, mechanically. You could also give the Mona hive 99 copies of each of the following items: Psycho Bomb, Godly Magatama, Psy Wheel, Atom Match, Kagutsuhi Orb, and Blast Magatama. Persona 5 also has the Psy and Nuke elements, which don't exist in SMT3, and thus would be able to damage the Demifiend no matter his equipped magatama. Plus, this avoids the level 255 issue entirely - attack items in P5 deal fixed amounts of damage, and with 1000 turns to act, the Mona have has enough time to do enough damage to end the fight.
@@mads_in_zerosorry for being late but Demi fiend stomps bad, ng+ Demi fiend has 2 turns and with the amount of Morgannas Demi fiend is pretty much guaranteed to get 1 crit per gaea rage, even if Morgan a dodges or endures Demi fiend can use gaea rage 4 times. Also considering Morganna is level 99 and Demi fiend is 255 he would probably go first.
Also remember when Demi Fiend was a boss and Gun could hurt him there too. I think with two cases, it's safe to say that it is canonical that he gets hurt by guns.
I think if you're taking skills 100% literally you have to make this fight turn based for the context to make sense. DF has one turn to kill every Morgana before he gets hit literally 1000 times in a row and dies. He would need an aoe attack that knocks all of them down at once, since they all share the same weakness. If he has that he can win, otherwise hes getting clapped.
Yes (+ extra press turn of DF). If both know each other weaknesses, it's a "depends on who goes first". If they don't know each other weaknesses, Morgana has better chances of winning (no more press turn advantages unless DF somehow gets Morgana's weakness by sheer luck).
Demi-Fiend gets 2 turns with the NG+ Mission. Not that it matters because Morgana still has endure, so if he doesn’t hit weakness and doesn’t bring them to 1 HP in one turn, he’s done… Plus, the Morgana have Dodge Elec to cover their weakness.
Gaea rage against 1000. Unblockable instant kill and unavoidable . If he gets one crit the Morgan as are all dead. Even if he doesn’t he still has another action. Morg can’t win.
I'm personally wondering how "innate" Maruki's strongest power level is, since he spent a month with his Palace artificially attached to (and drawing power from) the Depths of Mementos. Before 12/24 when the PT subconsciously allowed Maruki to take Yaldy's place in control over Mementos, his "Actualization" power was only single-target amnesia (Rumi) or hypnosis (Sumi). I read some wiki trivia that Adam Kadmon is only huge since it's inside Maruki's own Palace (so it'd be normal-sized everywhere else). Should his power-level be capped at what only he himself can do (awaken to Azathoth and Adam Kadmon, limited Actualization), or what controlling all of Mementos allows him to do (all the ludicrous dead-resurrecting, personality-altering, reality-rewriting bullsh*t he can make happen).
Dante's Ebony and Ivory count as phys skills in Nocturne, so does Raidou's revolver But still, he can be damaged by gun in Apocalypse I think I see the problem here
Yeah, but we need to choose one form and apply it. If we have Demifiend at his prime in SMT 3, it's NG+ with 2 press turns allowing two actions. If the Morgana army can heal the entire army with 1 salvation, then Gaea's Rage affects all the Morgana's. Also the power to summon demons is a natural power of the Demifiend, so if we go with all of his powers, then would we allow Demifiend to start the fight like normal with his demon party pre-summoned? Or are we assuming Demifiend has his entire stock of demons dead and no revival items? But if we say he has his demon summoning power, then he can turn over the number issue easily and really screwing over the Morgana's.
@@PK_Scratch Yeah, that's the main issue, we don't know what he gets However, best case scenario, the Demi Fiend beats Morgana's ass without question Wost case scenario, the Demi Fiend has about a 20% chance to win So in my mind, since there are scenarios where Morgana loses without doubt and the Demi Fiend stands at least a small chance in all scenarios, this is the Demi Fiend's win
I always imagine that a power stuggle between a Persona and an SMT Protag would just end in a stalemate. Like, all their attack would just end up being shot back or just absorbed. I picture them trying to duel it out for like an hour and then just being like "fuck it, it's not worth it." and they just leave.
My opinion hasn't changed. If demi-fiend has the ability to kill every morgana in one hit, demi-fiend wins, but if demi-fiend can't one hit kill, he's done without some super powerful demons on his side
I think passive innate skills like Chakra Walk/Mana Refill would give Demifiend a big advantage, he can outlast their SP by just walking, but that is if he's allowed to walk between battle and batte, if not then yeah, 1k Morgana is too much power
@@researchinbreeder But thinkabout it, if we're going strictly by game logic then the biggest battle Demi Fiend could fight is a 1 v 7, and then move to the next one. Still I don't think he could move around between battles, but if he could, that's a big advantage
I could absolutely kill an infinite amount of Morganas, and I don't even know how to clench my hand into a fist and extemd my arm to throw a soft punch. I'm that fat and weak. But my hatred for Moregano is more deep and fiery than the pits of Gehenna, and that hatred will make it impossible for me to lose. Aoi Asahina is still S-tier waifu material, even though she has the same voice as my fictional enemy.
And Tera skills, so the logic present seems to be the Masakados magatama nulls all elements in Nocturne...and only those elements. So earth/psy/nuke/gun would theoretically hurt him.
Considering game mechanics, the Demi-fiend wins for sure. We could disregard party sizes to let all 1000 Morganas be on the field at once, but the Press Turn system has caps for the amount of turn icons you can have. So unless the Morganas have abilities that grant extra moves, they'd only have 7-8 full icons to work with before it goes back to the Demi-fiend no matter how many there were on the field. And even if we disregarded the turn icon limit, the Demi-fiend's Gaea Rage still has a critical rate of 30% and an evasion rate of 3%. So after using it once he'd take out roughly 970 of the Morganas and get ensured criticals which would give him a half-turn to spare. Then he just does it again on the remaining 30 and bewm. Done. The only way the Morganas could win would be if you threw out the Press Turn system altogether, removed the caps on everything and made them go first. But for SMT and Persona characters that just won't do at all lol
17:02 Actually....Showtimes can happen if one of the party members involved with it are "in the backlines." So it is possible. Problem is can't have multiple considering only 1 Ann and 1000 Morganas.
Tbh, didn't watch the entire video at this point, but Demi-fiend with the Masakodo's magatama could literally not do anything and win by the factor that he can't get hit by anything the Morganas could do. I should also note that any of the Digital Devil Saga gang could also solo the hoard of morganas. Edit: After watching the video, I do think you are correct that the Demo fiend is vulnerable to shit not in nocturne, which is also shown in DDS he is vulnerable to earth. However, if we are including other game bullshit, then we should also include the bullshit that the DDS fight has. Near unlimited crits, almost never misses, almost always hits statuses, has a 9999 damage attack he can use at will. I do think that the DDS fight is a pretty one to one to how an actual fight would go as he is actively changed for the DDS system, only having 2 demons at a time instead of 3 among other things, and he still kicked their asses into oblivion. Imo, the fight is basically impossible as the Demi fiend will eventually use his full powers and nuke the shit out of the morganas.
Gaea Rage is a physical type Allmighty attack that hits all enemies and can be boosted with Focus which is affected by pierce. Do it quickly and repeatedly, Demi-fiend has a solid win condition
@@axelzxsh1107 oh dang really. Must be something to do with lore but I'm not sure if it's fair to count it unless it's a game mechanic.we need to choose one or the other and apply it to both Morgan and demi fiend.
Just some thoughts I had on the matter: 1a. We can allow the demi-fiend being vulnerable to gunfire, but Morgana has some wacky slingshot. If you go by Digital Devil Saga, where the characters are rocking a full arsenal of some high class weapons, including magic ones, they still could barely scratch this guy. The best bullet they had was the Magatama shot, which is some weird magical anti-demon round, and the damage on that (with a sniper rifle) is around 1% is his max hp. Also, the DDs crew has seemingly infinite ammo (because they are soldiers, I guess), while the Phantom Thieves have limited capacity per encounter at best, so this strategy is only so good for so long. 1b. If you also want to look at it, P3 makes Aigis' guns and Yukari's bow pierce damage, which is repelled by tetrakarm. The SMT4A thing was likely an homage to the Magatama not including gun damage at the time. 2. While the Phantom Thieves did take down Yaldaboth, it was more of the MC's doing with Wild Card shenanigans that scored the win, because when they tried rushing the guy, he simply deleted them at will. They had to turn his powers off just so they could actually go to the finishing blow. Admittedly, the Demi-fiend hasn't killed a being like Lucifer, but he did kill several gods in their own right during SMT3 (the patron gods of the different reasons, as well as the Kagutsuchi, a creation elemental, and embodiment of the "great will"). And depending on your situation, he either went toe-to-toe with Raidou Kuzunoha, or Dante, which is a ludicrous achievement in its own right. There were also the fights with the Four Horsemen, Metatron, Beelzebub, the Trumpeter - this guy's hit list is a whose who of Heaven and Hell's finest. And then there was that wrestling match with Thor! 3. If we do consider combat mechanics, then this can go one of a few ways: - If we consider this a proper 1 V 1000 match, with all participants present, then Demi-Fiend has a clean shot with most of his almighty arsenal. Gaea Rage, Deadly Fury, Magma Axis - this guy has more than enough ways to ruin someone's day easily. And even if all the Morgana's ran revives, if 500 die, and the other 500 are reviving, then that's 1000 turns wasted. - If we think of this as a gauntlet run of Demi-fiend against a number of squads of Morganas, then they probably stand no chance. In such small amounts, he would probably eat them alive. - If we consider this like the actual tournament of power, where range is an issue, then Demi-Fiend is still basically running against multiple Morgana squads, since the further away ones can only do so much. If that was the case, then AOE attacks would not only hit the squads, but also do collateral damage to the further out ones too, because this guy really doesn't seem like the type to give a damn. 4. I know this is more of a subjective thing, but Digital Devil Saga's fight with him had a squad of soldiers, with demonic powers, at the PEAK of their efficiency and tactics, and they only equated to an inconvenient NORMAL BATTLE for this guy (admittedly an endgame one, but still). And in SMT4A, he was literally level 125. Additionally, depending on the situation, he did rock Samerecarm and/or Mediarahan. I would buy this, since the rest of his setup seems geared toward a physical build, so a healing spell to dump the MP into would make sense (and recall that he has 2 less skill than normal in SMT4A). If is a thing, then there is no hope. I guess I side with Demi-Fiend in most cases because he just seems to be in such a maddening tier above people like most of the Persona characters, that I can't imagine many of them having what it took to put this guy down. A guy that Satan believed could easily be made strong enough to actually body God.
I think guns won't work because in nocturne, gun is physically damage EX: E&I or in DDS he's only really hurt by all mighty, but yeah I also think it is a what are the conditions of the fight
the showtime thing with ann is definitely applicable. in p5r party members who arent directly in combat can still participate in showtimes as long as their partner is in battle
I'm of the opinion that the Demifiend wins regardless of if you're talking gameplay or not. If you don't bring in things like debuffs or weaknesses, Demifiend still has a physical nullification of all things except certain spells. And if you want to talk _with_ gameplay mechanics... well why not just make demifiend level 255. I'm pretty sure at that point not being immune to gun at that point means nothing and he'll probably move first, use his turns for a buff and AOE the morganas to death. If you want to argue that with maximum vitality the morganas do at minimum 1 damage it will literally take all 1000 morganas at least hitting him to win.
If he managed to mute them all with javelin rain then he probably has a 99 percent chance to win OR giving him a 3 support Demons with prayer and debilitate and all kajas then he’ll definitely win
When you started to mention how the Morganas could revive each other, I was just imagining it like Demifiend trying to swat a bunch of flies but more keep popping up.
I still stand by my point that the power of the simp will carry even one Morgana to destroy even YHWH, the Demifiend, and all of the other demon summoners. Yeah, I kinda changed my mind about the Demifiend unironically after the replies. Kinda dumb of me to underestimate the power of what 1000 of them could do. Also, thanks Fither for showcasing my shitposty comment.
Si usamos el sistema de stats de SMT 4 para que el Demi fiend sea vulnerable a armas el tiene nivel 125 y con 125 De defensa , 161 de agilidad y 125 de suerte cuando Morgana Royal no puede pasar de los 99 stats . Y el Demi fiend en su juegos puede llegar a nivel 255 así que si pudiéramos el límite en 300 de stats el Demi fiend tendría el triple de stats que Morgana no podría darle ni con su arma o sus garus
I think that power levels are still too different between mainline SMT and the newer Persona entries. If we had a better way to scale their actual power levels and not just their abilities, I think that despite the 1000 Morganas being able to ignore Demi-Fiend's wind null they might still not harm him enough-same goes for gun. I'm taking the side of Demi-Fiend not nulling gun because he also doesn't null earth attacks in DDS, but I don't think that even a thousand pebbles would hurt him considerably. If we'd be talking just gameplay-wise, the Morganas win unless Demi-Fiend kills them quickly (he should still be faster than them so he could wipe them before any sukunda spells are cast). If we were talking about actual power, I'd be more inclined to say Demi-Fiend wins because he is pretty freaking strong.
I would love for you to talk about how overpowered maruki is. Especially since according to Morgana “maruki is on A whole another level compared to yaldobaoth “
He's basically Alien X at the end of Royal and that's before he even awakens or fuses with Adam kadmon, who's even stronger. "He could blink and we'd be gone."
@@drasticplastic1218 especially considering The possibility of him being superior to yaldobaoth. Who was able to not only defeat Lavenza, but suppress her memory and split her half and Seal away Igor and claimed the velvet room for his own . Basically saying “ screw you Philemon” and Philemon didn’t do nothing probably because he couldn’t do anything him. And maruki also revived people soooo maruki solos nyx ? Lol
If the Morganas were going up against the Demifiend from DDS1, then Demifiend could theoretically win every single time. Gaea Rage in that game does 9999 damage and I'm pretty sure can't be dodged by normal means. The only way the Morganas would win is if they were to go first or if they all had an accessory that gave them endure. I'm pretty sure turn order is determined solely by the agility stat in most megaten games (or at least the ones relevant here), but it gets a little fuzzy when you realize that the maxed stats you can obtain are different in every game. In Nocturne Demifiend's stats cap at 40, while in P5 stats cap at 99. Now let's assume that Demifiend has maxed stats. Would the Morganas go first because they have 64 agility compared to Demifiend's 40, or would the Demfiend go first because his agility is maxed out? This gets worse when you consider that when Demifiend shows up in SMT4A he has 161 agility out of 200 (technically it caps at 400, but the soft cap is 200 so lets go with that). So would you calculate they're agility by the raw numbers or by how close it is to the cap? So in short who ever goes first most likely wins. Also something I just remembered while typing this is the fact that when alone Demifiend has 2 press turns. So that means he can Gaea Rage twice or mediarahan and Gaea Rage in the same turn (this also nullifies any endure accessories that the Morgana's could have). Anyways great video. i always enjoy the silly power scaling videos and hope you do more in the future.
@@fluxthemagician7928 Are we talking about Demifiend’s stats in Nocturne? Because I know the level cap in that game is around 200 but I don’t think any of the individual stats can go above 40. Obviously if Demifiend was a secret boss in P5 he would have more than 40 agility, but he isn’t. Perhaps if someone modded him into the game we can test this, but then we have the problem of converting his stats to P5.
Okay, here's an idea Adachi vs 100 cabbage farms within the TV world. He accidentally falls into the TV while asleep during a produce ad and needs to escape by destroying (or eating?) all the cabbage on the farms before an even stronger fog rolls in within a week and kills him. Would he get too exhausted and give up? Also his Persona can eat cabbage too maybe I unno lol
@@DmmyV Guy who made the Demon Summoning Program in SMT 1. Sorta advanced to a higher plane of existence at some point, so he can travel to alternate universes and stuff.
Kinda except Morgans does have the power to even slightly damage crazy entities like demi-fiend and remember, demi fiend has limited HP and MP pool to use moves from, Imagine getting hit by 10 sukundas, you can't hit shit, imagine that times 10, then that times 10 again, morgans can do that, Every turn demi-fiend takes 10 more morgans can Masukunda and 1 does wind break and the rest can hit Garudyne
Ren: Grab your popcorns. *Grabs a bucket* Kasumi: Hmmm... This should be interesting. Futaba: I knew Monga and his horb is gonna do something dumb welp. *Also grab bucket of popcorn* deadass dumbasses Yusuke: Hmmm *Grabs the painting bored and paints* Interesting. Goro: *Grabs the plate of pancakes* This should be fun and stupid. Haru: Oh dear... Makoto: Oh for fuck sakes... *Facepalms* Ryuji and Ann: Go MORGANA!! Egor: Hmmmm... Let's see Demi Human can face the persona user... Caroline: Oh an idiot fighting a demi god boy Justine: Hmm... Indeed. SMT 1 Protag: *Grabs soda can* SMT 2 Protag: *Grabs a beer* Flynn: *Watches* This gonna be interesting. SMT 4 Protag: *Eats the popcorn* Meanwhile with the personas Arsène: Your user is stupid.. Zorro: My user is dumber.. Indeed he is. Going against a unstoppable force that cannot be defeated. Johanna: Sometimes people can be dumber... Milady: Oh my my this youngman has raw power in him. Mhm~ Goemon: His sesne of power is unique. I see the moron cat can face this dangerous art. Carmen: Oh~ Lala~ His power is so domanial~ And tasty. These dumb cats never learn do that~? I routing for the boy with markings. Captain Kidd: Arrr..... The laddie has.... Intering Treasure of heart of power. How ye face a boy with with such quite power. Robin Hood: I bet you 10,000 yen for the Demi Human. Loki: I bet 50,000 on the dumb cat. Necronomicon: The boy has powers that cannot control. But I like him. I also route for him also. Izanagi: This is gonna be dumb to watch. Orpheus: Indeed... *Plays my harp* Tatsuya Suou: HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! THIS IS SO DUMB!!!! Seimen Kongou: I am surrounded by idiots...
Demi-fiend is just fighting a horde of Morganas, turns around, and the last thought that goes through his head is "Is that a minivan..?"
Morgana can't drive when in vehicle mode. So it'll be more like the Demi-Field will drive one road kill the others.
@@wanderin_stud499 Another Morgana can drive.
Or the Morgana's can drive themselves
@@karstb8830
nothing sounds funnier than the demi-fiend driving one of the morganas and turning a fight into a demolition derby.
@@dewo277e9 This.
The virgin “1 billion lions vs all Pokémon” vs the chad “1000 Morganas vs the Demifiend”
Wasn't "1Billion Lions vs The Sun"?
@@StormDracoX it was both
yeah, because the first one isn't even a question. 1 billion lions versus 1000 pokémon means the lions clap them, easily.
@@Lars_Hermsen you know some pokemon can easily level continents right? Hell one of em can level a universe
@@ziyadtarek910 well yeah but the lions can make a ladder, also- if one pokemon levels the universe, that one will be the only one to survive. They might level the universe, but consider: 1 billion is a lot. No way a single pokemon can take on 1 billion lions, not even Arceus, Giratina or Ultra Necrozma
if all the morganas go "oooooh" really, really loudly, I think the resulting massive soundwaves could hurt the demifiend.
Oooh, we can do this x1000
demifiend dont have reapel almight so yes
The better question is…1000 Teddies vs the Fanbases sanity. That’s the true ultimate battle.
It's a slaughter
1000 teddies vs 40000 Benadryl's
i would survive
I have the gen z handicap. I think I can take on a few dozen teddies
You fool, I actually LIKE Teddie. I'll win with no problem at all.
Fither: "I'm not a power scaler"
Also Fither: *makes the everything tier list, scaling the power of the strongest beings such as Truth-suke*
Tbf none of his tier lists or vs matches were exactly well researched or correct
@@Seven_DB Is it not obvious? Fither puts the utmost levels of research in all of his videos, only to be matched by the likes of Harvard students and your high school English teacher explaining how the door being red is related to the state of 3rd world countries.
Rainbow Iwai is my favorite SMT character.
@@Seven_DB Clearly you didn't watch the video at all.
@@Seven_DB I agree
I'm just imagining 1000 "Looking cool Joker" and it makes me die inside
almight atack
Nice pfp
It almost scary how good he is
And then in the middle of the crowd there’s just 1 “ONE MOAR GOD REJECTED!!”
Demi-Fiend would win because Joker isn’t here, which means Morgana is on act freely.
Morgana would be too stupid to use common sense and cast Salvation EVER.
Easy.
To be fair, potter wouldn’t have any effect on the battle at all.
Do I need to remind you that Demifiend fought and killed gods and devils with his *bare hands* ? What’s Ren gonna do? Bleed on him?
@@VanceAsagi and also *cough* digital devil saga
You fucking think joker can handle Gaia's rage?? Demifiends weakest yet strongest attack??
He’s not saying Joker would make a difference. He’s saying that without Joker, Morgana is limited to his stupid ass A.I
Morgana without Joker: uses Dirahan on a full HP party member
"The Morganas are highly motivated"
You could even say they're the storm that is approaching
Perhaps you could also say that they are provoking, provoking black clouds in isolation
@@orionblok1240 If you're so inclined, you may even say he is reclaimer of his name
@@akashicays they’re very mysterious. For all we know, they could be Born in flames, blessed by Igor. And Igor’s family crest is probably a demon of death.
And we all do know that he is forsaken.
perhaps a pheonix ash in velvet divine.
Fun fact: In Strikers, Salvation is buffed to not only be a Mediarahan + Amrita Shower, but the move also - I fucking kid you not - acts as a FULL PARTY samarecarm. If you use Strikers Morgana, a single Morgana can bring 999 other Morganas back to life in a single move.
Oh, that's dumb... that's really dumb...
Gaea Rage is an instant kill unavoidable AOE skill. It wouldn't kill if Morgana had enduring soul. No? Well that's 1000 dead Morganas then. GG.
Oh Hell No
this makes sense in strikers because of how easily you can die
@@VanceAsagiConditional.
An uncharged Gaea Rage in DDS does over Morgana’s max HP so if Demifiend has at least 30 agility before equiping Masakado he could use his max speed to move first and clap every Morgana’s cheeks in one fell swoop.
Morgana has endure though and the 1000 Morgana's only need 1 Morgana heal all of them.
@@blueajw9942 then just do it again 🙂
@@blueajw9942 endure only works once
@@blueajw9942 he too have endure
@@airbornezombie7655 Demifiend only has one turn, one chance to win before swam him and win. He doesn't have another chance.
I just imagine Dante raidou and the rest of the phantom thiefs are just eating popcorn and sitting in the corner while this is happening
Dante is shrugging and going “What the hell is this?”
I like to imaging ryugi is rooting for the Demi-fiend because of how annoying morgana is. And everyone is sitting there thinking “why is he rooting for the other team?”
@@supreme_king_obama1158 Ryugi and Dante are just waving Demi-Fiend banners.
@@lunardruid6097 basically, and ann is the only one actually cheering on morgana, just because the scenario says so.
Raidou would probably be on Demi-fiend's team given the alliance.
If the press turn system is in effect Morganas get a huge advantage in turns, unless he hasn't played smt before and wastes all his turns hitting the invincible guy.
Morgana never played smt
@@Skimmy404 Yeah, Morgana has 100% never played SMT
It's almost scary how good he is though...
Demi-fiend repels or absorbs anything and 1000 turns are gone
@@kwadarth
wind break or they could just do a drive by...
Really, every theoretical vs battle should have a win condition mentioned for both characters so good job for talking about it
Every balanced enough versus battle rather.
Seriously, if you can't conceivably think of a way for either character to win, its not a worthwhile debate
And this is the exact reason death battle sucks.
@@supreme_king_obama1158 There are a looooot of reasons Death Battle sucks.
@@goldenspiral6008 yeah, but this is one of the main ones IMO
Fither: "Gun skills don't exist in SMT 3"
Dante holding Ebony and Ivory: "Am I a joke to you?"
Raido: "..."
But they aren't of the gun element is what he's trying to say.
Freikugel is called Riot gun in Japanese
@@kaiserwave5977 But it's Almighty, so it's probably Almighty/Gun, instead of Almighty/Magic.
We can come together and agree that Freikugal becoming stronger the Magic stay is dumb, right?
Let's have a balanced hierarchical type system like in Demikids and Digimon: Cyber Sleuth, 'aight?
@@harrietr.5073 Freikugel in Nocturne is Strength-based Almighty
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 But that's just a stat-based attack. It doesn't change the fact it isn't Physical or Gun/Almighty, while all other elements have the Magickal sec. type.
A couple cracked circumstances in which the Demi-fiend can win to consider:
1. Makarakarn: In the games this effect lasts one turn, so it's obv not permanent or even prolonged. It also reflects a single spell per cast, but imagine DF parrying Garuladyne spells a la Daigo Umehara, or even just reflecting the barrage back into the horde of Morgs.
2. Demi-fiend insults Morgana once and demoralizes him into running away, again
3. pspsps into spray bottle combo
Demi-Fiend 100% wins. It's considered a joke move but you forgot about Wild Dance. Demi-Fiend could use it at the beginning of the fight to immediately make most all of the Morgana's really stupid, therefore they would have zero chance to coordinate any of the complex tactics that would create their win condition. Ann watching would make them even less likely to do so.
The rest of Morganas can use salvation to cure panic
@@grigoriiprimushko8687 I cackled when I read this🤣
@@grigoriiprimushko8687 Yeah, but it would affect all of them
@@phantomnite the wild dance effect? If so the poster said most so all it takes is 1 morgana to not get affected
If a single Morgana resists it though...
The idea of the 1000 Morgana shooting the Demi-Fiend into a bloody pulp with the slingshot is too cursed for me to handle
Incredible pfp (complimenting a pfp how original of me)
Morgana annoys blue magatama man to death. ez clap
Morgodna
Ok so gun attacks probably would not hurt demi-fiend in the context of nocturne (not IV). It would probably be classified as a physical attack because raidou and dante both have an attack that uses a gun and both of their gun moves are classified as physical attacks
Not only that, Morgana's max HP in royal (with Diego) is 492.
The Demi-Fiend can easily deal that with a single attack.
Especially with charge, or if we go by DDS rules; a single gaea rage does 3000-30 000 damage.
If he can target everyone at once, he wins. Unless he misses even one.
Which he might; considering Morgana's high agility and buffs/debuffs.
@@potatistatis6709 don't forget Morgana has endure
Morgana doesn't even use a gun. He uses a stringshot.
@@kellyjohana516 still counts as gun damage by the game, though
Morgana would be able to do damage to Demifiend with his slingshot, here's why. Raidou and Dante use guns, but there is not a gun element in nocturne. In DDS there are two new elements, being gun and earth. Since they were not in nocturne, he is not immune to those elements. The slingshot is considered to be a gun. We can conclude that he is vulnerable to the slingshot, and the Morganas may have a chance to win as a result.
Each Morgana could have a slingshot that causes paralysis or freeze & take out Demi-fiend with 1000 all-out attacks
the demi-fiend is like "it doesn't count I'm immune"
@@dewo277e9 but he is not immune to guns. The chance to inflict ailments also does not change the attack for gun to ice or something like that.
@@spongbobsquarepants3922
Gaea Rage
@@dewo277e9 Is it the DDS version or not? In nocturne it is not actually that good. It can also miss. Also he takes a bit to charge it up. It should not be a turn based battle.
@@dewo277e9 Morgana has Endure and can have 999HP and 99 Defense thanks to Jazz Club. 1 lucky survivor = Morgana Victory
“My Epithet is…BARRIER!!!”
-Jo Barrier
Stamina:⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Brains: ⭐️⭐️
Creativity:⭐️
Ay Epithet Erased, hope we get a season 2
I watched 3 episodes then cringed out of the room. Wiggling jpgs and voice actors trying really hard. Character designs were really cute though
@@cronuslite6358 what were they not supposed to have voice actors??
@@mishiim I'm saying they sounded really new to voice acting. I'm not a voice actor so what would I know. But to me it sounded forced and awkward. I stopped watching cuz of that. If other like it cool. I like the concept just not that and the cardboard people.
@Super Saint I saw that, very excited
We can take all gameplay knowledge we have: DemiFiend does not null gun. Everyone has turns, everything can affect turns as usual. If we want to get REALLY gameplay-ish, there are horde battles in SMT IV- IV Apocalypse, that would make the Morgana horde pretty weak because of the 3 turn restriction... there's just too much stuff going on
It seems like the question boils down to in-universe power vs. in-game power. Using the latter, the Morganas have a real chance. Going by the former, Demi-Fiend punched out a multiverse and then went on to throw hands with a Lucifer who should be the fourth strongest thing around (behind The Great Axiom, Stephen, and YHWH), at least with how he's depicted in Nocturne (I'm aware certain games downscale Lucifer, but in Nocturne, he's clearly a big deal, clearly above the other chief angels (Michael, Metatron), demons (Beelzebub, Satan), and even entities like Kagatsuchi. So by in-story power, I'm pretty sure he can't even feel Morgana.
But Morgana has the in-universe power of annoying, so he would clap Demi-Fiend even easier.
Late reply but Satan is actually much stronger than Lucifer. As stated in SMT IV Apocalypse, Lucifer is just an aspect of Satan
Demifiend when he sees 30 billion spongebobs pull up to the vortex world 0_0
DDS Gaia rage makes me think he can fight any number of morganas ez af
Morgana has endure
Demi fiend can use it many times and he too have endure also he had 2 turn
@@blueajw9942 Gaea Rage can crit, and there's 1000 chances to crit and get another press turn
Demi fiend would easily win. But I'd like to imagine that if he's really that weak to guns, I'd find it funny that one way he could be killed is being pelted by Morgana's slingshot
All the morganas turn into minivans and just fucking run him over in unison until he dies lol.
@@nicholaskarras2759 I'd also like to think he's weak to vehicular assault.
I dont know how much damage that slingshot do but he needs to pul it 18k damage and 1 attack to pulm him down considering demi fiend in DDS 1 has 18k health bar and broken agility
@Declan McKenna if a unison of cats transform into minivans and then in run someone over in perfect synchronization(otherwise they hit each other) and thus killing them isnt considered a showtime attack, than showtime attacks do not exist in that universe.
@@n-extrafries-surprise I mean he bet hell rider so who knows
17:30 to be fair the 999 extra Morganas seems pretty external
I feel like I we’re gonna say that Morgana’s skills like salvation affect all the living morganas then demifiends skills like gaea rage should also affect all the living morganas. So I really think it comes down to who goes first
Demi-Fiend uses Gaia Rage ->
*Game lags so hard it crashes as 1000 Morganas scream in pain*
@@darklordliam Morgana has endure so they would survive
@@blueajw9942 you forget DEMI-FIEND HAS 2 TURN HAHAHAHA
@@fluxthemagician7928 he could still miss tho, and since theres a thousand targets, thats pretty possible
@@fluxthemagician7928 Plus crits
Haven’t played an SMT game but if we played by Persona rules, then it entirely depends on if he has dodge electric because then Demi-Fiend might get one more a hundred times before a Morgana dodges lol.
Also I just realized this and I think it’s fitting that Ryuji and Morgana are weak to each other’s respective elements lol.
The weakness dynamics in Persona games are pretty neat. In P5 the only one i didnt really get was Makoto and Haru? Ann and Yusuke makes sense, as does Morgana and Ryuji, potentially Joker and Akechi assuming its Arsene VS Robin Hood
P3 probably had it best since they werent just opposing elements (Fire V Ice, Elec V Wind etc), I dunno. It was just nice having Junpei (fire) be weak to Yukari (Wind), Akihiko (Elec) weak to Mitsuru (Ice) and so on.
And if you dont know, In smt the amount of actions your party gets in a turn is based off of the number of members.
If morgana acts first by Smt rules then he practically wins by default.
1000 Actions vs 1...
UNLESS THEY HIT AN ELEMENT THAT HE REFLECTS. Then they lose all of their actions.
So morgana, PLAY SMART.
@@theluminousone5883 I doubt Morgana would go first though since at lvl99 his agility is at most...80? 90? Whereas Hitoshura doesnt have such a level cap and can max out his stats
Assuming hes in NG+, he gets 2 press turns instead of 1. Under the assumption he either crits with physical skills or uses bolt storm, thats 4 half press turns. Those extra turns being used for either makarakarn or tetrakarn? Wind break cant bypass those, and Hitoshura doing 2 attacks bypasses Morganas innate endure too :/
This is...an annoyingly fun topic to think about
@@theluminousone5883
the problem is that morgana does not have any attacks that can hurt the demi-fiend, so either the simps army loses all thousand turns with the first move or spends a thousand turns buffing their defense so as not to die in the first hit
@@dewo277e9 wind break and the sling shot probably will work
Bold of you to assume that the battle takes place in the Metaverse. Yes, it would be incredibly unfair to have the fight take place in the real world, but since he's an actual demon (as opposed to a human or shadow) I'm not sure that the Demi-fiend can even enter the Metaverse and besides.....is he really going to play fair? Like any mainline SMT protagonist, he's a stone cold MFer who only survived to see the end of his game by ruthlessly exploiting the weaknesses of his enemies and killing two former friends. I think it's more likely that he'll kick down the door to LeBlanc and punch 1000 housecat Morganas into a fine red paste one by one while Sojiro and the Phantom Thieves look on in horror, powerless to stop him.
Also if he's got his demons, Demi-fiend can just wipe them all out with Beelzebub's Death Flies, easy win GG.
Fither: “I’m not a powerscaler”
Also Fither: “The femboy literally just bodied the guy who bodied smt god. Submission is inevitable.”
All jokes aside you’re actually not bad at powerscaling. (Especially after Nahobino rolled up cuz holy shit)
17:02 In P5R only one combatant needs to be in the active party so I think morgana could theoretically do like 800 showtimes.
This really is the battle I didn’t know I wanted
The Demi-fiend appearance in Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner is what sells it for me. Specifically, that version of Gaea Rage shows what the skill would look like in a different game (I do realize it wasn't great in Nocturne). DDS has an HP cap for the party of 999, and Gaea Rage hits everything for a couple thousand damage. I feel like the same pattern would happen in this fight - the Demi-fiend plays around for a bit, decides the Wind Break and debuff spam is BS, and then just Gaea Rage's and wipes out the lot of them. Any survive, he just does it again, or picks them off with Freikugel.
But he is being swarmed. Can he really do anything with 50 morganas on top of him? Also the morganas can use their slingshot to hurt him as well.
I swear, every time Demifiend comes up in this sort of discussion people forget that his actual vanilla level cap is 255, and because of the difference in levels and smt-verse damage formula a level 99 character would barely scratch a level 255 one
10 damage might be a different destructive capacity in persona 5 than it is in smtn
Even assuming Demi-Fiend has the Masakados Magatama equipped, Mrogana has a damage source available - as seen in DDS, Gun damage can still damage through Masakados, because SMT3 doesn't have gun.
If we assume Demifiend is capped at 999 HP (a fair assumption, since you're mentioning his 255 level cap, something that doesn't apply in his DDS bonus boss, even though he has more HP there), there are 1000 Morganas. So even if each bullet only deals 1 damage due to the sheer level difference, they have a guranteed kill.
If we use Demifiend's DDS HP pool, we have 18,000 HP to deal with. All of Morgana's guns have exactly 5 rounds, so assuming he doesn't have a magazine upgrade from Gun Customization, each Morgana can fire for 5 damage. This is slightly optimistic, but even Morgana's leas accurate gun has 90 accuracy, so I think it's fair to say that 1000 Morganas could deal between 4000-5000 damage with nothing but gun spam.
This isn't quite enough, but if we give Morgana the best possible gear he can (Demifiend is already packing Masakados), we can increase his odds.
If we let Morgana use his ultimate gun, Sudarshana EX, his bullets have the High Dizzy trait - from having played a lot of P5R, I know that if you inflict an ailment in the middle of spamming bullets, _and_ the ailment can be technical'd, you can do so starting from the next shot. Gun element _can_ cause technical damage off of Dizzy.
Again assuming Morgana has the best gear possible, Joker will have Maxed the Phantom Thieves Technical Rank, guranteeing a knockdown on a technical. Now, an All Out Attack would normally deal an appreciable amount of damage even to a boss, but Demifiend is level 255 - but on the flip-side, there are 1000 Morganas, so their all out attack would have more power packed into it than a normal one. 250 times more powerful, if I'm running my maths right.
I don't know how to reliably calculate the odds of this knockdown occuring (90% bullet his, high dizzy procs, another bullet hits), or how much damage an All Out Attack would do. But with enough luck, I think the Morgana Hoarde could turn it around. A perfect victory for a trickster!
@@mads_in_zero I mean, technically SMT 3 has gun lol, Dante using ebony and ivory, and Raidou uses his gun against Demi, they will do nothing.
@@Tommyvang187 Yes, but that's because their guns are physical element.
A game with gun element spells, like DDS or Persona 5, would be able to damage him with guns, mechanically.
You could also give the Mona hive 99 copies of each of the following items: Psycho Bomb, Godly Magatama, Psy Wheel, Atom Match, Kagutsuhi Orb, and Blast Magatama.
Persona 5 also has the Psy and Nuke elements, which don't exist in SMT3, and thus would be able to damage the Demifiend no matter his equipped magatama. Plus, this avoids the level 255 issue entirely - attack items in P5 deal fixed amounts of damage, and with 1000 turns to act, the Mona have has enough time to do enough damage to end the fight.
@@mads_in_zerosorry for being late but Demi fiend stomps bad, ng+ Demi fiend has 2 turns and with the amount of Morgannas Demi fiend is pretty much guaranteed to get 1 crit per gaea rage, even if Morgan a dodges or endures Demi fiend can use gaea rage 4 times. Also considering Morganna is level 99 and Demi fiend is 255 he would probably go first.
Also remember when Demi Fiend was a boss and Gun could hurt him there too. I think with two cases, it's safe to say that it is canonical that he gets hurt by guns.
One Gaea rage GG
@@fluxthemagician7928 Morgana has endure
two gaea rage
@@blueajw9942 Demifiend gets two press turns in NG+
@@Bropower125Games one Dodge + endure = Win. Plus, Jazz club or incense means 99 Defense and Magic and 999HP for Morgana.
When I saw the notification, I was expecting a 30 second shitpost, not an 18 minute one
it would be really cool if the new Persona game had an secret boss from mainline smt like demi-friend or seraph
i would love to see something like that be dlc like the challenge fights in royal, whereas the past protagonist fights should be basegame
Every single fucking Morgana just fucking magdumping on this man
I think if you're taking skills 100% literally you have to make this fight turn based for the context to make sense.
DF has one turn to kill every Morgana before he gets hit literally 1000 times in a row and dies. He would need an aoe attack that knocks all of them down at once, since they all share the same weakness. If he has that he can win, otherwise hes getting clapped.
All it takes is 1 morgana to dodge
Yes (+ extra press turn of DF).
If both know each other weaknesses, it's a "depends on who goes first".
If they don't know each other weaknesses, Morgana has better chances of winning (no more press turn advantages unless DF somehow gets Morgana's weakness by sheer luck).
Demi-Fiend gets 2 turns with the NG+ Mission. Not that it matters because Morgana still has endure, so if he doesn’t hit weakness and doesn’t bring them to 1 HP in one turn, he’s done… Plus, the Morgana have Dodge Elec to cover their weakness.
Gaea rage against 1000. Unblockable instant kill and unavoidable . If he gets one crit the Morgan as are all dead. Even if he doesn’t he still has another action. Morg can’t win.
I'm personally wondering how "innate" Maruki's strongest power level is, since he spent a month with his Palace artificially attached to (and drawing power from) the Depths of Mementos. Before 12/24 when the PT subconsciously allowed Maruki to take Yaldy's place in control over Mementos, his "Actualization" power was only single-target amnesia (Rumi) or hypnosis (Sumi). I read some wiki trivia that Adam Kadmon is only huge since it's inside Maruki's own Palace (so it'd be normal-sized everywhere else). Should his power-level be capped at what only he himself can do (awaken to Azathoth and Adam Kadmon, limited Actualization), or what controlling all of Mementos allows him to do (all the ludicrous dead-resurrecting, personality-altering, reality-rewriting bullsh*t he can make happen).
Forgot to mention the Mona-copter and Ann just being in the bleachers is an automatic Heat-Riser
Dante's Ebony and Ivory count as phys skills in Nocturne, so does Raidou's revolver
But still, he can be damaged by gun in Apocalypse
I think I see the problem here
Yeah, but we need to choose one form and apply it. If we have Demifiend at his prime in SMT 3, it's NG+ with 2 press turns allowing two actions. If the Morgana army can heal the entire army with 1 salvation, then Gaea's Rage affects all the Morgana's.
Also the power to summon demons is a natural power of the Demifiend, so if we go with all of his powers, then would we allow Demifiend to start the fight like normal with his demon party pre-summoned? Or are we assuming Demifiend has his entire stock of demons dead and no revival items?
But if we say he has his demon summoning power, then he can turn over the number issue easily and really screwing over the Morgana's.
Oh man, SMT featured Dante from the devil may cry series and knuckles?
@@PK_Scratch Yeah, that's the main issue, we don't know what he gets
However, best case scenario, the Demi Fiend beats Morgana's ass without question
Wost case scenario, the Demi Fiend has about a 20% chance to win
So in my mind, since there are scenarios where Morgana loses without doubt and the Demi Fiend stands at least a small chance in all scenarios, this is the Demi Fiend's win
Demi-Fiend : "Let me sleep please ! I'm a man, half-human !"
Morgana : Ok.
But couldn't demifiend just chill while 1000 morgana makes a huge breeze for him with garudyne/zandyne since he has masakados?
Wind break
You missed the entire part where Morgana has Wind Break
@@edermachado2844 GAEA Rage GG
I always imagine that a power stuggle between a Persona and an SMT Protag would just end in a stalemate. Like, all their attack would just end up being shot back or just absorbed. I picture them trying to duel it out for like an hour and then just being like "fuck it, it's not worth it." and they just leave.
My opinion hasn't changed. If demi-fiend has the ability to kill every morgana in one hit, demi-fiend wins, but if demi-fiend can't one hit kill, he's done without some super powerful demons on his side
If 1 morgana dodges it can use salvation
If he has Gaea Rage from DDS, that's a wrap.
@@ClvrBstrd Morgana has endure
@@blueajw9942 Just do it again
@@ClvrBstrd the Morgana's would get their turns in which case Demi fiend loses. He wouldn't be able to do it again.
I think passive innate skills like Chakra Walk/Mana Refill would give Demifiend a big advantage, he can outlast their SP by just walking, but that is if he's allowed to walk between battle and batte, if not then yeah, 1k Morgana is too much power
It's a single large battle, not 1000 1v1s
Well 2 gaea rage clap everyone
@@researchinbreeder But thinkabout it, if we're going strictly by game logic then the biggest battle Demi Fiend could fight is a 1 v 7, and then move to the next one.
Still I don't think he could move around between battles, but if he could, that's a big advantage
DemiFiend is immune to sleep? Dang Morgana’s greatest super power has been negated…
Maruki vs Dio Over Heaven would be an awesome battle, even if I know that Maruki stomps I want to see your opinion on this one.
I could absolutely kill an infinite amount of Morganas, and I don't even know how to clench my hand into a fist and extemd my arm to throw a soft punch. I'm that fat and weak. But my hatred for Moregano is more deep and fiery than the pits of Gehenna, and that hatred will make it impossible for me to lose. Aoi Asahina is still S-tier waifu material, even though she has the same voice as my fictional enemy.
Hina has the same VA as Morgana?
Morgana would kick your ass dude.
Also in his DDS fight, Demi-Fiend can only be hit by almighty/gun skills so there's something else
Morgana also has wind break
@@blueajw9942 GAEA RAGE GG
And Tera skills, so the logic present seems to be the Masakados magatama nulls all elements in Nocturne...and only those elements. So earth/psy/nuke/gun would theoretically hurt him.
Considering game mechanics, the Demi-fiend wins for sure.
We could disregard party sizes to let all 1000 Morganas be on the field at once, but the Press Turn system has caps for the amount of turn icons you can have. So unless the Morganas have abilities that grant extra moves, they'd only have 7-8 full icons to work with before it goes back to the Demi-fiend no matter how many there were on the field.
And even if we disregarded the turn icon limit, the Demi-fiend's Gaea Rage still has a critical rate of 30% and an evasion rate of 3%. So after using it once he'd take out roughly 970 of the Morganas and get ensured criticals which would give him a half-turn to spare. Then he just does it again on the remaining 30 and bewm. Done.
The only way the Morganas could win would be if you threw out the Press Turn system altogether, removed the caps on everything and made them go first. But for SMT and Persona characters that just won't do at all lol
17:02 Actually....Showtimes can happen if one of the party members involved with it are "in the backlines." So it is possible. Problem is can't have multiple considering only 1 Ann and 1000 Morganas.
Tbh, didn't watch the entire video at this point, but Demi-fiend with the Masakodo's magatama could literally not do anything and win by the factor that he can't get hit by anything the Morganas could do. I should also note that any of the Digital Devil Saga gang could also solo the hoard of morganas.
Edit: After watching the video, I do think you are correct that the Demo fiend is vulnerable to shit not in nocturne, which is also shown in DDS he is vulnerable to earth. However, if we are including other game bullshit, then we should also include the bullshit that the DDS fight has. Near unlimited crits, almost never misses, almost always hits statuses, has a 9999 damage attack he can use at will. I do think that the DDS fight is a pretty one to one to how an actual fight would go as he is actively changed for the DDS system, only having 2 demons at a time instead of 3 among other things, and he still kicked their asses into oblivion. Imo, the fight is basically impossible as the Demi fiend will eventually use his full powers and nuke the shit out of the morganas.
There’s wind break so morgana can get past
@@PlanScare wind break can pass makarakan? if it can then gg
@@leixalkvinay2729 It’s not an attack skill so it will
To answer this question we must know range of Gaea Rage - if it covers really big area it can take all Morganas in one strike
It wouldn't kill them as Morgana has endure.
@@blueajw9942 and Demifiend has 2 turns
Gaea Rage is a physical type Allmighty attack that hits all enemies and can be boosted with Focus which is affected by pierce. Do it quickly and repeatedly, Demi-fiend has a solid win condition
Demi-fiend has Gaea Rage
There is no hope he just wins
Morgana has endure
Two Gaea Rages
@@blueajw9942 two Gaea rage for Two turn
@@blueajw9942 Demi-fiend completed the Burial Chamber if you went by DDS1 and he will have 2 turns if you don't count his demons.
Next one: Makoto Yuki vs 1000 Mitsurus.
Why would you put Makoto through having to wait for them to miss Marin Karin?
@@xavierjohnson2321 Well, at least Yuki can sleep for a little, since he's always yawing, while fighting
You forgot that Demi-Fiend is able to use items because SMT protagonist, he can also just shapeshift reality so he can say, haha no
Facts
Wait he can shape-shifting reality? Haven't played nocturne but isn't that only something you do at the end of the game using kagutsuchi.
@@GradMeat well, i looked at wikipedia and it says that Demi-Fiend can shape-shift reality
@@axelzxsh1107 oh dang really. Must be something to do with lore but I'm not sure if it's fair to count it unless it's a game mechanic.we need to choose one or the other and apply it to both Morgan and demi fiend.
@@GradMeat maybe is that earthquake thing he learns
Just some thoughts I had on the matter:
1a. We can allow the demi-fiend being vulnerable to gunfire, but Morgana has some wacky slingshot. If you go by Digital Devil Saga, where the characters are rocking a full arsenal of some high class weapons, including magic ones, they still could barely scratch this guy. The best bullet they had was the Magatama shot, which is some weird magical anti-demon round, and the damage on that (with a sniper rifle) is around 1% is his max hp. Also, the DDs crew has seemingly infinite ammo (because they are soldiers, I guess), while the Phantom Thieves have limited capacity per encounter at best, so this strategy is only so good for so long.
1b. If you also want to look at it, P3 makes Aigis' guns and Yukari's bow pierce damage, which is repelled by tetrakarm. The SMT4A thing was likely an homage to the Magatama not including gun damage at the time.
2. While the Phantom Thieves did take down Yaldaboth, it was more of the MC's doing with Wild Card shenanigans that scored the win, because when they tried rushing the guy, he simply deleted them at will. They had to turn his powers off just so they could actually go to the finishing blow. Admittedly, the Demi-fiend hasn't killed a being like Lucifer, but he did kill several gods in their own right during SMT3 (the patron gods of the different reasons, as well as the Kagutsuchi, a creation elemental, and embodiment of the "great will"). And depending on your situation, he either went toe-to-toe with Raidou Kuzunoha, or Dante, which is a ludicrous achievement in its own right. There were also the fights with the Four Horsemen, Metatron, Beelzebub, the Trumpeter - this guy's hit list is a whose who of Heaven and Hell's finest. And then there was that wrestling match with Thor!
3. If we do consider combat mechanics, then this can go one of a few ways:
- If we consider this a proper 1 V 1000 match, with all participants present, then Demi-Fiend has a clean shot with most of his almighty arsenal. Gaea Rage, Deadly Fury, Magma Axis - this guy has more than enough ways to ruin someone's day easily. And even if all the Morgana's ran revives, if 500 die, and the other 500 are reviving, then that's 1000 turns wasted.
- If we think of this as a gauntlet run of Demi-fiend against a number of squads of Morganas, then they probably stand no chance. In such small amounts, he would probably eat them alive.
- If we consider this like the actual tournament of power, where range is an issue, then Demi-Fiend is still basically running against multiple Morgana squads, since the further away ones can only do so much. If that was the case, then AOE attacks would not only hit the squads, but also do collateral damage to the further out ones too, because this guy really doesn't seem like the type to give a damn.
4. I know this is more of a subjective thing, but Digital Devil Saga's fight with him had a squad of soldiers, with demonic powers, at the PEAK of their efficiency and tactics, and they only equated to an inconvenient NORMAL BATTLE for this guy (admittedly an endgame one, but still). And in SMT4A, he was literally level 125. Additionally, depending on the situation, he did rock Samerecarm and/or Mediarahan. I would buy this, since the rest of his setup seems geared toward a physical build, so a healing spell to dump the MP into would make sense (and recall that he has 2 less skill than normal in SMT4A).
If is a thing, then there is no hope.
I guess I side with Demi-Fiend in most cases because he just seems to be in such a maddening tier above people like most of the Persona characters, that I can't imagine many of them having what it took to put this guy down. A guy that Satan believed could easily be made strong enough to actually body God.
In SMT4A he wasn't even NEAR his actual level cap actually.
@@InquisitorSinCross I totally forgot that Noctourne has a hidden cap of 255. He was barely at 50% of his true power XD
I think guns won't work because in nocturne, gun is physically damage EX: E&I or in DDS he's only really hurt by all mighty, but yeah I also think it is a what are the conditions of the fight
Actually, demi can be hit by guns, earth, and almighty
Yup but Gaea Rage and GG
@@fluxthemagician7928 Morgana has endure
@@blueajw9942 demi fiend has 2 turn
I think I prefer Fither Battle over Death Battle now
Death Battle is just straight up bad. It's just entertaining, but when it comes to power scaling arguments they are bottom tier.
“These Morganas can just revive and heal forever”
*laughs in Gaea Rage*
Even that is bound to miss on at least a good bunch of them
> Gaega Rage
> 1000 morgana uses endure
> one morgana uses windbreak
>999 morgana use garudyne
Are they fighting in a single encounter or a gauntlet? Single encounter, Demi uses Gaea Rage, ez clap. Gauntlet, Morganas eventually wear him down
the showtime thing with ann is definitely applicable. in p5r party members who arent directly in combat can still participate in showtimes as long as their partner is in battle
This is the content I’ve been waiting for
I'm of the opinion that the Demifiend wins regardless of if you're talking gameplay or not.
If you don't bring in things like debuffs or weaknesses, Demifiend still has a physical nullification of all things except certain spells.
And if you want to talk _with_ gameplay mechanics... well why not just make demifiend level 255. I'm pretty sure at that point not being immune to gun at that point means nothing and he'll probably move first, use his turns for a buff and AOE the morganas to death. If you want to argue that with maximum vitality the morganas do at minimum 1 damage it will literally take all 1000 morganas at least hitting him to win.
The avatar of human hope versus the guy who beat up god and trashed heaven. Fair fight.
If he managed to mute them all with javelin rain then he probably has a 99 percent chance to win OR giving him a 3 support Demons with prayer and debilitate and all kajas then he’ll definitely win
When you started to mention how the Morganas could revive each other, I was just imagining it like Demifiend trying to swat a bunch of flies but more keep popping up.
I still stand by my point that the power of the simp will carry even one Morgana to destroy even YHWH, the Demifiend, and all of the other demon summoners. Yeah, I kinda changed my mind about the Demifiend unironically after the replies. Kinda dumb of me to underestimate the power of what 1000 of them could do. Also, thanks Fither for showcasing my shitposty comment.
With the press turns it should only take two Gaea Rage's from Demi-fiend, assuming 1 of the 1000 morganas gets hit by a crit
I usually find vs videos really boring but this was a pretty damn fun idea
sure, the morganas may be able to revive each other, but repel phys and wind makes demi-fiend invincible to the morganas
If we give demifiend his SMT5 abilities he wipes with no difficulty, one gaea rage and it's over for morgana.
1000 Ryujis vs 1000 Junpeis vs 1000 Yosukes
Vs Walter
If every morgana activates simp mode at the same time and hears Ann cheering for them then only the fandom's sanity could annihilate morgana
Si usamos el sistema de stats de SMT 4 para que el Demi fiend sea vulnerable a armas el tiene nivel 125 y con 125 De defensa , 161 de agilidad y 125 de suerte cuando Morgana Royal no puede pasar de los 99 stats . Y el Demi fiend en su juegos puede llegar a nivel 255 así que si pudiéramos el límite en 300 de stats el Demi fiend tendría el triple de stats que Morgana no podría darle ni con su arma o sus garus
I think that power levels are still too different between mainline SMT and the newer Persona entries.
If we had a better way to scale their actual power levels and not just their abilities, I think that despite the 1000 Morganas being able to ignore Demi-Fiend's wind null they might still not harm him enough-same goes for gun.
I'm taking the side of Demi-Fiend not nulling gun because he also doesn't null earth attacks in DDS, but I don't think that even a thousand pebbles would hurt him considerably.
If we'd be talking just gameplay-wise, the Morganas win unless Demi-Fiend kills them quickly (he should still be faster than them so he could wipe them before any sukunda spells are cast).
If we were talking about actual power, I'd be more inclined to say Demi-Fiend wins because he is pretty freaking strong.
As most humans, demifiend is weak to the Glock.
Demi-fiend: How? How is this possible?
The thousand Morganas: You can't see it? There is no power greater than a simp cheered on by his lover.
What kind of every Pokemon versus 1000 Lions shit is this?
It’s the type where the 1000 could reasonably win
@@beeghevey4 O.K., that's fair.
11:33 raidou’s boogie-woogie🥶
I would love for you to talk about how overpowered maruki is. Especially since according to Morgana “maruki is on A whole another level compared to yaldobaoth “
The one thing holding back Maruki was himself - he really didn't want to kill you. If he was actually unchained ... yikes.
He's basically Alien X at the end of Royal and that's before he even awakens or fuses with Adam kadmon, who's even stronger.
"He could blink and we'd be gone."
@@drasticplastic1218 especially considering The possibility of him being superior to yaldobaoth. Who was able to not only defeat Lavenza, but suppress her memory and split her half and Seal away Igor and claimed the velvet room for his own . Basically saying “ screw you Philemon” and Philemon didn’t do nothing probably because he couldn’t do anything him.
And maruki also revived people soooo
maruki solos nyx ? Lol
I just imagine a demi fiend with attack all and it's like there's no difference between 1 morgana and a billion.
If the Morganas were going up against the Demifiend from DDS1, then Demifiend could theoretically win every single time. Gaea Rage in that game does 9999 damage and I'm pretty sure can't be dodged by normal means. The only way the Morganas would win is if they were to go first or if they all had an accessory that gave them endure. I'm pretty sure turn order is determined solely by the agility stat in most megaten games (or at least the ones relevant here), but it gets a little fuzzy when you realize that the maxed stats you can obtain are different in every game. In Nocturne Demifiend's stats cap at 40, while in P5 stats cap at 99. Now let's assume that Demifiend has maxed stats. Would the Morganas go first because they have 64 agility compared to Demifiend's 40, or would the Demfiend go first because his agility is maxed out? This gets worse when you consider that when Demifiend shows up in SMT4A he has 161 agility out of 200 (technically it caps at 400, but the soft cap is 200 so lets go with that). So would you calculate they're agility by the raw numbers or by how close it is to the cap? So in short who ever goes first most likely wins.
Also something I just remembered while typing this is the fact that when alone Demifiend has 2 press turns. So that means he can Gaea Rage twice or mediarahan and Gaea Rage in the same turn (this also nullifies any endure accessories that the Morgana's could have).
Anyways great video. i always enjoy the silly power scaling videos and hope you do more in the future.
Yup even his level cap is 255 i don't think his max agility will be 40 ima say around 150-200?
@@fluxthemagician7928 Are we talking about Demifiend’s stats in Nocturne? Because I know the level cap in that game is around 200 but I don’t think any of the individual stats can go above 40. Obviously if Demifiend was a secret boss in P5 he would have more than 40 agility, but he isn’t. Perhaps if someone modded him into the game we can test this, but then we have the problem of converting his stats to P5.
@@connorclarke6974 nocturne came 2003 i don't think that they care too much with the stat (ps2 problem) but still can put cap level 255
@@fluxthemagician7928 But I care. :)
@@connorclarke6974 then his stat already 150-200
Okay, here's an idea
Adachi vs 100 cabbage farms within the TV world. He accidentally falls into the TV while asleep during a produce ad and needs to escape by destroying (or eating?) all the cabbage on the farms before an even stronger fog rolls in within a week and kills him. Would he get too exhausted and give up?
Also his Persona can eat cabbage too maybe I unno lol
Demi Fiend has to go the sleep with that matchup.
1 Full Overlord Abel
Vs
100 Ghost Navares.
Abel solos nanashi and his friends at the same time 😭
@@jackour8167 But Buffs tho. And smirk.
@@Jack-lo5me doesn't change anything
Ok, how about 10 Demi Fiends that are in control of 100 Morganas each vs. Stephen?
Who is stephen?
@@DmmyV Guy who made the Demon Summoning Program in SMT 1. Sorta advanced to a higher plane of existence at some point, so he can travel to alternate universes and stuff.
Stephen would get a decent warm up. Not great, but decent.
So who's going to program the simulation fight for this? I would legit pay money to see this.
I just wanted to add that Morgana has the ability to turn into a helicopter, as well.
this is the goku vs spongebob of the smt/persona world
Kinda except Morgans does have the power to even slightly damage crazy entities like demi-fiend and remember, demi fiend has limited HP and MP pool to use moves from, Imagine getting hit by 10 sukundas, you can't hit shit, imagine that times 10, then that times 10 again, morgans can do that, Every turn demi-fiend takes 10 more morgans can Masukunda and 1 does wind break and the rest can hit Garudyne
Doesn't Dante use guns in one of his skills? If so then we could simply check what element that deals, I would assume physical.
Shin Megami Tensei 3 : Strikers, where every enemy is Morgana at different levels
Demifiend wins obviously jeez guys he cool
Demifiend vs 1000 cars
@@DmmyV If its an ae86 maybe
Ren: Grab your popcorns. *Grabs a bucket*
Kasumi: Hmmm... This should be interesting.
Futaba: I knew Monga and his horb is gonna do something dumb welp. *Also grab bucket of popcorn* deadass dumbasses
Yusuke: Hmmm *Grabs the painting bored and paints* Interesting.
Goro: *Grabs the plate of pancakes* This should be fun and stupid.
Haru: Oh dear...
Makoto: Oh for fuck sakes... *Facepalms*
Ryuji and Ann: Go MORGANA!!
Egor: Hmmmm... Let's see Demi Human can face the persona user...
Caroline: Oh an idiot fighting a demi god boy
Justine: Hmm... Indeed.
SMT 1 Protag: *Grabs soda can*
SMT 2 Protag: *Grabs a beer*
Flynn: *Watches* This gonna be interesting.
SMT 4 Protag: *Eats the popcorn*
Meanwhile with the personas
Arsène: Your user is stupid..
Zorro: My user is dumber.. Indeed he is. Going against a unstoppable force that cannot be defeated.
Johanna: Sometimes people can be dumber...
Milady: Oh my my this youngman has raw power in him. Mhm~
Goemon: His sesne of power is unique. I see the moron cat can face this dangerous art.
Carmen: Oh~ Lala~ His power is so domanial~ And tasty. These dumb cats never learn do that~? I routing for the boy with markings.
Captain Kidd: Arrr..... The laddie has.... Intering Treasure of heart of power. How ye face a boy with with such quite power.
Robin Hood: I bet you 10,000 yen for the Demi Human.
Loki: I bet 50,000 on the dumb cat.
Necronomicon: The boy has powers that cannot control. But I like him. I also route for him also.
Izanagi: This is gonna be dumb to watch.
Orpheus: Indeed... *Plays my harp*
Tatsuya Suou: HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! THIS IS SO DUMB!!!!
Seimen Kongou: I am surrounded by idiots...
Morgana:most of my attacks are wind
Demi fiend with null wind:No
Morgana with wind break:No