2015 Maps of Meaning 10: Culture & Anomaly / Part 1 (Jordan Peterson)
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- University of Toronto PSY434
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March 18, 2015
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Your legacy is in these accessible lectures sir. Thank you and please somehow keep these gems for generations to come.
This is one of my favourite lectures in this series. As a married man whose life has suffered hardship of late -- the loss of a parent and of a job -- I find his observations deeply insightful, even empowering.
You're trolling, right? Have you ever been laid off with a family to support? I don't recommend it.
@@songofsam I agree this lecture says a lot.
It's been 5 years since your comment. I hope things are better for you now, fellow lobster
How do you deal with losing a parent?
I’m sorry if you recently lost a parent. It’s a profound loss, and there is no “getting over it.” But the meaning of the loss can change over time. I’ve found, for myself, that small, personal, modest rituals - lighting a candle, for example - helps me stay engaged with their “presence” in some sense. I’ve also come to understand that they remain alive inside me, in my inner voice, my dreams. They are a part of me. And as long as I’m alive, so are they.
i lost a lot of people and job ended up alone it makes you very strong ,you have to be your own best friend , you really have to get to know yourself ,not be to hard on yourself .and grow up big time the buck stops with you . use to be a people pleaser, been bullied ,screwed over .had depression panic anxiety been in hospital with it . had enough chaos to last ten lifetimes. so love being on my own . peace is everything to me . ,,love JP and the dharma , Buddhism , really helped me !
Buddhism offered me a framework to find meaning in life without the Christian baggage of guilt.
I later found Christ again through Thomas Merton, a Trappist monk who connected with Buddhism, & taught contemplation.
Thank You for sharing your story, I can relate. I have to look into buddishm.
Can I just say, that some of the insights Jordan has regarding certain topics or ideas, are just incredibly useful (and mindblowing) for the individual to capitalize upon.
Now, I have never read Nietzsche nor Jung as these are a fair bit above my level, but I am under the impression (by how Jordan speaks of them) that some of their work is astoundingly deep as well as important and will be everlastingly so.
00:33:00 problem of corruption
00:43:00 absolute standards, making the world better or worse
00:48:00 dealing with death/catastrophe and spreading support
00:52:00 relationships, truth/honesty
*00:55:00 "to tell the truth you must tie someone to you so they can't run away" -Hume
01:00:00 value hierarchy, relationships
01:03:00 sexual energy, purity/contamination
01:04:00 "If you truly want to punish someone, you punish them for their virtues" - nietzsche
01:11:00 "morality is cowardice" - nietzsche
01:25:00 choice horizon and anxiety, limitations
Whatever the video is about but first of all... I salute to all these students taking his heavy - intellectual - stimulating lessons for 1.5 hrs straight..... that must need an intense amount of focus on each of his words while simultaneously processing the complicated references he makes although ending with simple solutions and then referencing all of that back to the psychological perspective of the subject he's talking about to understand it better.... hell of a work, Lotttt of patience and impressive grasping power is needed. I wish I could attend one of his lectures, absolutely fascinated and admire him a lot. He's been a greater help for me in many situations. i pray you recover sooner than later Prof. Jordan Peterson. 🙏
This so far has been my favorite session of this series of Maps of Meanings!
This is the man they want to sack? What a bunch of hosers eh?..
Ogre he does have a serious coke addiction 😂
I fall asleep to these lectures. (Try to). But one of these vids(forget which one) you hear a door open. Well it sounded like my bedroom door opening. It was 3 am. I freaked out. Rolled over to get my gun and was searching. FREAKED ME THE FUCK OUT. Wooooo
gun? american? only ask cuz I live in Canada, no guns, but thats scary!! he is good to fall asleep too, I agree! No OFFENSE Dr Peterson, but I have been listening to you while sleeping, cleaning, driving, working for like 6 years now? lol, I even dream about him... I won't say what some dreams are like. meow lol haha
@@Fefe559
Same! He is awesome to sleep with.
52:00 to the end : It's one of JP's best segments
This lacture is very intresting and i know my last 41 years and how changes came in me thanks
Hello from Central Asia ❤🇹🇯
He’s so amazing.
Such a clear thinker.
Anybody also thinking “I want to use my money wisely and buy him a hair makeover.” (Clean your room, etc.)
Have you seen him recently? He's looking sharp.
Fight the good fight!
Gon get through this hopefully after the 2017 Personality lectures
"don't take things personally"'
They are guarding my life jordan. Impressive isnt it.
They know i have been injected. They are concerned if i due, whete the body goes and to anarchise ourside, then in. It would be show over fir everyone involved in any slsndrt etc.
Thus i am only greatful.
They are discoplined, smart, kind, hoghly moral operators. Truth is the highest aspiration.
Thry are nonesrlf judgemental. She wont
Pneumoconiosis
The Dada's were the artist expression at the time, calling out and rejecting the nazi regimes objectives. I learned about the dadas in high school 1990. One doesn't hear if this is even covered in hearsay on today's schooling in the arts.
Jordan Peterson Great man
This guy needs a REAL Nobel prize , but a NOBEL PRizes is Bs now , like an Olympic gold medal or a super bowl win , but fans KNOW what the man is worth
Well. Maybe a women's gold medal (trans athletes and all).
Yeah as a non capitalist
But a deep sociology lover
I love this mann
Wish we had such great proffesors in indian colleges
I am an engineering grad
Who now has interest in biology sociology psychology etc because of Jordan Peterson
Professor Peterson, I have a question regarding children and the Dominance Hierarchy. You spoke earlier about children that are extra violent, and how if they haven't been socialized by 4 years old then it was dooms day for them.
Here is the situation, I have a almost 5 year old son who has a friend of the same age. The friend is constantly hurting my son on purpose. I.E. Slamming his fingers in doors, hitting him etc. Keep in mind this is when my son is at the friends house and not his own house. The other night we were at the friends house and my son came crying to me. He had told me that his friend had hit him. My son wrestles and boxes (i dont let him spar in boxing as i dont want to give him brain damage) at a gym 3 days a week and is more than capable of defending himself from these attacks. I told my son he needs to stick up for himself. My sons response was "I don't want to. I'm a nice boy!" So 10 minutes later the same thing happened again. I took him into the bathroom and told him "next time this happens you need to stick up for yourself and let him know you are capable of defending yourself." I told him if he does this i would buy him a surprise. Sure enough a while later the friend hit my son in my presence. My son turned and looked at me for approval. I gave him the thumbs up and my son used one of his wrestling moves on the boy. took him to the floor and hit him in the back a few times. He got up and ran to me crying thinking he was going to get in trouble. I whispered to him "Tomorrow we will go to the store and you can pick out a toy." He was then Happy.
My question is. Is condoning my son and even rewarding my son for that behavior healthy? Or should i just allow him to be "a nice boy"
Thank you in advance for any tips
jeff illi lmfao thats funny stuff. i think u did the right thing for his mental health in the future but whadoikno..
Have you considerd the posibility that your friends son might be a sociopath in the making? I'm not joking here
You kid is being abused and trained into that role in friendships in the future.
I'm no psychologist but you teach your kids to stand up for themselves period. Have you ever noticed that the most capable avoid fighting. I never felt the need to act in such ways. I dont know why these guys would pick fights. I knew a guy that would get in a fight like every other day he did this for shit twenty years o suppose and he is dead so I guess he stopped.
So how have your son and the friend turned out 3 years later?
I don't believe it is by mistake he's giving the camera the middle finger throughout this. I hear you Dr Peterson. Loud and clear
really enjoying this one. Esp the whole discussion of the psychological aspects of the left and people who get involved in the leftist activism. I myself went through that during my more radical days in university.
52:51 - 1:06:56
52:51 why get married, really?
53:56 truth is what's most needed to solve problems arising in relationship and to maintain it
55:03 jung's idea of marriage: a shackle to your partner, so neither can run away when telling the truth, because the truth hurts, and the truth is you're both monsters
55:40 be motivated not by virtuous idealism, but by terror and humility to find the truth; not because you're a 'good' person, but because you don't want to suffer. To be motivated, articulate your perfectly ideal and horrible future
56:29 help find the truth, even if it's with your partner articulating some annoying complaint about you, because it might be valid
58:15 biological and practical advantages to marriage: cover each other's flaws with each other's strengths
1:02:04 jung's idea of finding what you vitally need where you fear the most, integrated into your relationship + example of neglecting shadow and inability to integrate unsophisticated strength into civilized personality
Spittin' trufs in this one.
Try untangling that !
24.27.
Thorsday’s Peterson shines
Wow!
@JordanBPeterson: Great Father part 2 is not working. Could you please fix that? Thank you
I absolutely love the Germans from 1940's Germany.
Not because of what their leader did,I completely disagree with what the Jews went through.
However there are not many leaders like 'him'.i just think,what were you thinking...
AI, go away, come again another day
Women hitting the wall at the age of 35.
I always was wondering whether it's an urban myth created by bitter men or it has some roots in social science.
By the way there are many youtube channels allocated to this matter but the best 2 are manosphere podcast and Taylor the fiend.
To nitpick heartlessly, Orwell was not an "aristocrat by birth." Hardly even "bourgeois". Better to say he was a public schoolboy who got by through the advantages of that station, not through reliance on any family assets.
+Jordan B Peterson, your lectures have been better for me than any pursuits of counseling I have ever found. I had no clue that existential obsessions that churn in me could be addressed academically rather than as nerurotic mental suffering. Or at least I feel this way now. Maybe both are required. What university do you teach at? You are an alchemist.
He was descended from aristocracy but his parents were upper british middle class and his mother used family connections to get him into public school and he continued in that vein by going to Eaton. I'd say bourgeois.
53:48 Marriage
I'm glad that this came up by Chapter 10 , because so far i've derived great benefit from JBP. but i think i must be the exception to his thinking on monogamy and marriage i'm in my mid forties i have a back story, i met and fell in love four years ago i was in love once before as a young person the obsticles became impossible and the relationship ended, i lived alone as a single person for 12 years before i met somone i felt deeply about again, She got married three years ago to her long time partner they have two children. I just wanted to say we're still together. If i had a choice i wouldnt want it to be any other way. i read alot, i have the time i stumbled across these lectures and they seem to be traveling in a similar direction as me, but on this topic Jordan seems to have got caught up in catagorical thinking, maybe he needs that Hourosic update he puts across so well. Poly people exist, there is great difficulty in coming out why should that be? is it a case of monogamous people being cowardly? in not accepting the possibility that one other significant other may not have all your looking for in another.
anecdotal stories are meaningless dude. My dad smoked his whole life and never got cancer. so what? means nothing.
@@nicholaskrancher2693 about right.
Dude. You are missing out and even if the other guy knows the two/three of you are messing with yourselves and eachother in psychologically problematic ways. I wouldn't be surprised if since your post you've noticed a dragon had been clamped on your heel this whole time for over a decade.
If you haven't noticed yet then double check, you're in something here, if you haven't gotten out yet, that you need to get out of.
@@williamturner6192 Still here couldn't be happier. No complaints whatsoever. Clearly anecdotal but life isn't repeatable in that way wouldn't you agree?
I'm guessing two women or more and one man? Someone isn't getting their needs met. That's the resounding conclusion from those that went public with their poly.
I can sense the butthurt from the students in this lecture. Woe unto my generation and younger of frivolity, loyalty is so rare and somehow frowned upon. Grow up.
I think you are over analyzing things considering that you cannot see the crowd to help gauge their reaction. Don't turn into the people you hate
1:00:00 falling in love
If aliens come visit earth and decide to fit in as being people among us, what do they need to know in advance so that they can operate smoothly and successfully in a short period of time?
They should talk to the missionaries.
They'll know how to blend in or they will have a perfectly effective excuse if they join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
I wonder if his daughter ever heard and understood his views on marriage or maybe she just disagrees.
The Spanish Civil War was between the 1st and 2nd World War ( 36-39 ) Franco took the power and Spain and Portugal were dominated by dictators : Franco and Salazar !
ua-cam.com/video/Bj6HgQBNiZE/v-deo.html - If you mess with the system, then system will mess with you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascading_failure
Jordan we love you! but stop drinking so much high fructose corn syrup! it will rot that brain of yours!
I think he drinks the aspartame version of it.
He drinks Diet Coke, so parkinson's here we come. The Aspartame version is even worse in some ways.
Nope. Review the literature.
I think he only eats steaks, of differing types. Hopefully organically raised, “humane” beef.
Anyone else getting an ad every 5 minutes?
Part one
Do you think people are confused about relationships "simply" because of the birth control pill? Are emotions not a kind of guidepost to potentially inform or stifle action? I wonder if you're employing emotions as a kind of hard and fast rule for discerning "truth" when it comes to relationships. People can certainly fall in love with the wrong people, if they don't perpetually do so, so to rely on the "naivety" of that sincere and compelling feeling to argue for an exclusivity that almost none of the animal world shows seems wrong. I think people are confused about relationships because each person is dynamic and constantly changing and informing their views over time. By the time you get into a general acceptance of behavior you're often too old to bother caring to engage in "aberrant" ways any way. Mind you, I'm not arguing particularly against what the pill added to the mix, but before we had access to it, it seems we've been engaging in the confusion of relationships since about the time we started recording our history.
Your opinion is fucktarded budy and you should avoid dating someone you care for untill you get this worked out. I suggest you start reading friend or you are going to be a bitter man.
Let me tell you how to manage a relationship buddy. Worry about yourself, no yourself and your belief system have a purpose you find meaningful. Completley put yourself together to at least a solid base line first. Then be honest and sincere. Chances are she will not shit test ya mich if you act in a way as if your deserving of the women and this causes her to feel like the lucky one. Never care more for her than you do yourself always walk away when you are not being treated right . Never argue with a women period. Become a master of her body and spend time working her up and make her wait. I personally have great relations with women because I enjoy everything for what it is and if it is time to let go I do it maturely and honestly I have not had a problem in ten years. Because I know what I want and I tell them and we agree to be complementary to each other until that's not the case. I dont live with women anymore I do not see my lady everyday I limit everything I make access a treat. I like it because i control my space and she can leave if she does not like it. The fundamental truth tell the truth no matter what. This is absolutely true. You know the women in my life know they can be honest also. I'm not mad at them at all. How can I be man. Women are great they will show you your inequities so stay your temper and look internally. I love marriage in a spiritual manner but I dont beleive I will ever subjugate myself to the state again and I have had this conversation and met some resistance but in the end I have her trust that my word in my mind is who I am as a person.
O yea date ugly chicks it's easier hahahahah jk there all dying to meet a masculine man who can make them feel secure and who will listen and pick up social ques as to fulfill her needs as completely as possible. Nothing is perfect but you communicate and use the idea of moderation in a very conservative way.
"Yeah Yeah, but but, Bush lied, Kids died. Fox News." THere you go, the critizism.
I think you misstep when you refer to people in open relationships as "delusional." I think this extends to your perception of "friends with benefits." As someone who engages in them both, my experience has been one of honesty and trust first, but also conducting those experiences "under" my relationship or in a way that services my partner's needs first. I'm interested in what you've pursued research wise as to advocacy for open relationships. Every statement you made up to the point where you consider someone like me delusional I was nodding along with and don't understand why you wouldn't extend your reasoning and explanation onto couples who choose to extend those behaviors, habits, and work further into other levels of feelings or relationships. I also disagree it's about "separating" feelings as it is respecting and reacting to them differently when you're with your partner verses a friend you find attractive.
@Truelove I think I'd prefer to get his take on what I said.
It is sad to see someone who is so on point on some issues (freedom of speech) to be so devious on other. To summarize some - marriage=good; birth control=bad; freedom of choice=bad, divorce=bad; The sacred and the tradition = wonderful. The alternative to not agree with him is of course "Hell". This guy is like preacher on steroids and the worse thing is that he's far too intelligent to be taken lightly. That is why he is able to sell you delusions while condemning delusions. I guess psychology training and practice come in really handy with the selling of his sermons (I mean lectures).
Fuis Cklam moral stances are endemic to the human condition I think that the problem lies in the fact that we are no longer taught things from a moral stance and that means that when someone finally does talk from a moral stance deriving those morals from observation of the human condition we balk. The reason why someone would think that The sacred is worth preserving is fundamentally a position of humbleness as to your totalizing knowledge of existence versus the accumulated knowledge of everybody else who ever lived. Re-examine the derivation of the equation you are criticizing and then reevaluate whether or not you think that is a sermon or a statement of observed fact.
" I think that the problem lies in the fact that we are no longer taught things from a moral stance"
So instilling delusions (in the people of lower intelligence) or cognitive dissonance (in higher intelligence cases) is the way to go regarding to morals? At least he should admit what he really thing of humans - that they are so fragile and stupid, that their life is impossible without their idiotic fantasies. Instead he redefines
the word "truth" to mean something that suits his narrative (as religious people always do - remember Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life). I also understand that his stances come from a good place - as a psychologist he faces suffering on a daily basis and it is paramount for him to combat it. But fighting suffering on the expense of your critical faculties for me is not worth at all.
"The sacred is worth preserving is fundamentally a position of humbleness as to your totalizing knowledge of existence versus the accumulated knowledge of everybody else who ever lived"
What if this "accumulated knowledge" tells you to behead your neighbour man and rape his daughter (like the case of the wondrous religion of peace), or to sacrifice tens of thousands to appease The Sacred (like Aztecs did), or to torture and burn countless other for the grave crime of having original thoughts? But hey, the important thing according to prof Peterson is that overall religion have positive influence on the societies in the long run, too bad that the innumerable crushed by it were standing in the way.
Also you can't just pretend that all religious people will have his general humanitarian attitude and mental capacities and will act like saints. So yes, I still think his speeches are sermons in a subtle way (making them even more effective).
P.S. Happy New Year (to you too prof Peterson if you read this exchange)
Fuis, it seems like u are the typical new-atheist types so i would recommend u sit through the entire course because i know u clearly haven't, anyway the statements u made
"marriage=good; birth control=bad; freedom of choice=bad, divorce=bad"
as general statements these are correct ( except for the freedom of choice one) however there are nuances and jordan does discuss those nuances in his other lectures ( not the birth control one tho just the marriage and divorce one)
" The sacred and the tradition = wonderful"
yes, the tradition is our dead father and we should never let go of him, and the will to revivify him should be our sacred duty.
" The alternative to not agree with him is of course "Hell""
o trust me dude, u are already in hell, u just don't realize it yet. hopefully u will be ale to come out of it with a new life.
"This guy is like preacher on steroids and the worse thing is that he's far too intelligent to be taken lightly. That is why he is able to sell you delusions while condemning delusions"
I want u to specify a delusion that he has preached.
Kilin Dogma, I will try to address your points in order:
1. I wouldn't say I'm typical new atheist in the sense that I'm 3th generation atheist and I lack the fervor of the newly deconverted. I also have a lot of close relatives who are orthodox christians and others who are communists, so the idea of coexistence of different worldviews is not foreign to me. This also helped me realize how close on idealistic level these ideologies are (and how wrong they are too - pretty much as every rigid ideology).
2. Yes, I haven't watched all of prof Peterson's lectures, mostly because I didn't have the time so far and I'll try to correct this as soon as possible.
3. As far as I'm concerned the marriage is one of the most effective ways for crushing of the human spirit. The amount of hypocrisy, deception and self delusion in this institution causes me to experience almost drowning sensation whenever I think about it in more profound way.
4. What if the tradition (our dead father) is abusive and/or stifling? I'd say let it rot, I wouldn't try to "revive" it.
The only thing I consider somewhat sacred is the conscious life (and since so far I'm aware only of humans possessing one - conscious human life) - but this is not an absolute. Everyone through his actions can be excluded from "The sacred".
5. Wouldn't Hell be somewhat obvious. I mean you should die first and find yourself in kind of different world. Unless I died in another world and am now in a poorly manged Hell. Hmmmm....
6. While condemning the ideologies of totalitarianism, authoritarianism and group thinking (delusions) prof Peterson promotes religiosity (another delusion), which is essentially substituting an earthly dictatorship with celestial one.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not rabid anti-religious zealot. In fact I would have no problem with many religions (here I exclude the revolting "religion of peace", which I genuinely despise) if they keep to themselves. The problem is that religion tries to impose itself on everyone (it comes to "save" you). It's like having a pet tiger - it's cute when it's little, but it grows and then it's best to be either in a cage or far from human settlement.
Fuis Cklam "As far as I'm concerned the marriage is one of the most effective ways for crushing of the human spirit. The amount of hypocrisy, deception and self delusion in this institution causes me to experience almost drowning sensation whenever I think about it in more profound way."
Thats really interesting, because i think marriage is essential to avoid exactly those things, i would say marriage is the only place where u can be yourself, where there is no deception. If u are in a relationship where u are incentivised to lie to the other person, i would say thats not a relationship, thats just a ship headed for an iceberg.
"What if the tradition (our dead father) is abusive and/or stifling? I'd say let it rot, I wouldn't try to "revive" it"
i would never say that, because if my father is entirely a rotten mess. i, who is a part of my father, will also be a rotten mess and there will be no point in continuing. Of course i don't believe that because its on the corpse of my dead father that i m able to experience this world, which is relatively peaceful. I i find it extremely ungrateful to even suggest that my father was just tyrannical and not loving. And what example will i set for my kids if i myself believe that my father was tyrannical.
I m a hindu, and i see a potential for the west to move past its fundamentalism, i.e. believing that a man actually walked on water and all that other completely bogus stuff.
"Wouldn't Hell be somewhat obvious. I mean you should die first and find yourself in kind of different world. Unless I died in another world and am now in a poorly manged Hell. Hmmmm...."
i don't believe in an afterlife lol, and neither does Dr. Peterson. I was referring to u being willfully blind, cause thats what happened to osiris, he went to the underworld after he became blind.
" While condemning the ideologies of totalitarianism, authoritarianism and group thinking (delusions) prof Peterson promotes religiosity (another delusion), which is essentially substituting an earthly dictatorship with celestial one."
Religion is the farthest thing from truth. Although i am sure u and i have completely different definitions of religion. And some people (in the west theists and atheists alike)
might call me crazy for that but thats what i actually believe, i think religion is not a manual to understand material reality but to understand behavioural reality.
All that being said i understand why so many people in the west will call themselves atheists.
But religion has a lot and i mean a lot to teach you, thus i would recommend u to listen to Dr. Peterson and put it on a MUST WATCH LIST.
And HAPPY NEW YEAR.
1:08:30-1:09:06 - Can someone explain the piagetian's point to me? I have no background in Psychology