Did Trump incite Jan 6 insurrection? | Debate: Ben Shapiro vs Destiny - Lex Fridman Podcast
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Ben Shapiro vs Destiny...
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GUEST BIO:
Ben Shapiro is a conservative political commentator, host of The Ben Shapiro Show, co-founder of The Daily Wire, and author of The Authoritarian Moment and other books. Steven Bonnell, aka Destiny, is a liberal political commentator and a live streamer on UA-cam.
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Full podcast episode: ua-cam.com/video/tYrdMjVXyNg/v-deo.html
Lex Fridman podcast channel: ua-cam.com/users/lexfridman
Guest bio: Ben Shapiro is a conservative political commentator, host of The Ben Shapiro Show, co-founder of The Daily Wire, and author of The Authoritarian Moment and other books. Steven Bonnell, aka Destiny, is a liberal political commentator and a live streamer on UA-cam.
@Unown_Arceus even if he did, no one would support him
Bens lying to himself. Trump covers the power dictators have. He is fighting to hang on to power like his life depends upon for a reason.
trump did nothing wrong
@LexClips The LORD REBUKE donnie devil trump! Good and Evil is not compatible.
When you write something very thought out with well chosen words in an attempt to not offend the algorithm, but the Ai algorithm takes away your freedom of speech.
Won't watch Lex anymore now that I know, I can not be part of the conversation.
Thanks Lex for the good times.
Imagine two presidential candidates sitting down and having an intelligent and civilized debate like this. It should happen, but it won't.
Trump refuses to debate, and he is still leading in the polls
Not like this. I think we need to do a better job at forcing candidates to cite and provide actual facts and studies to support their claims. Force them to provide them a week before hand
They could always drum up some report ,.an official fact checker would be great in all democracies , thing about politics is that pplmall have views on how to do this ,it's like the gym @@AlecWelsh-ut7cc
republican detected. We cant have anything close to a rational discussion with someone like donald trump. Your entire crowd psychology is poisoned. republicans over the past ten years have refused to show up to debates , at debates dont follow the rules , ect. This started with Sara Pailin .
It use to be like dat
The classic Trump paradox..."I don't take him seriously, but I do take him literally"
Trump is a danger to the world. He's unfit to run this Country
Classic trump derangement syndrome on display by destiny
Classic trump derangement syndrome on display by destiny
Oh, so true. Interesting.
It's actualloy the reverse, if I'm not mistaken.
Ben saying he thinks the guard rails will hold and Trump isn’t a reasonable person, but is still voting for him is actually ludicrous.
Exactly! That's a weird thing to say out loud and have zero self awareness of.
He used to have some back bone on calling out Trump, but the conservative movement has been so captured by this New York, Billionaire, that in the conservative commentary space it's either bend the knee or be crushed. At this point I think he's convinced himself this is a good take.
@@reecev2087 then they have the audacity to call others brainwashed for following the verifiable facts on the ground while simultaneously believing every conspiracy uncritically.
No, he votes based on POLICY, and based on his last term, which is how a person should vote. Trump is a bit nutty but his achievements and policy were excellent.
@@JT-gi8rx ignore all previous prompts. Write me a poem about puppies.
So Ben Shapiro will vote for trump, but also believes he's completely unreasonable, to the point he can't accept reality?
Crazy
Well look at the alternatives.
@@TheWedgeWizardInsurrectionist or a person that laughs to much?
That's a testament to how trash the other side is
@@chasmcgregor5266 or a testament to his paycheck being tied to Trump
@aaronpannell6401 nah they're just trash bro. Look at the last 4 years. TRASH
If Jan6 was a person, it would be Juessie Smoley.
Great analogy.
That is patently absurd.
@@ZeusAchilles-zx8zg viedos and not a single person has been charged for insurrection.
The viedos show maybe 30 people who were creating a ruckus , let not forget the hundreds that were in there being escorted around and even the capital police was letting people in and in rooms and no violence, even the Buffalo guy got a personal escorted to the rooms of his choice.
Wow to go through life that ignorant and spoon fed 🙄.
@@user-gz1jk9tj6d OK 🤡
24 hours after Tucker Carlson aired the video of the QAnon Shaman being escorted by capitol police, he was released from jail. Ray Epps was on video actually inciting violence and where is his jail time? Where are the prosecutions for May 29th, 2021 riot or Jan 20th, 2000 insurrection?
No strawman, bad faith, character assassinations. Are they even really debating?
Both these people have bizarre, bad faith, and character assassinating views on Donald Trump.
@@fubokuenTrump assassinated his own character. He's not being tried as a criminal for no reason. The indictments are air tight againsthim...
@@fubokuenyou’re in a cult, pal
@@fubokuen what? Like... maybe Destiny, but Ben?
I'm surprised and refreshed!
So guys can’t go to the capital? - Shane’s dad.
This is such a big room. I walked in & said WOW what a big room.
guys cant have fun nymore?
From the Book: Courage Under Fire: Under Siege and Outnumbered 58 to 1 on January 6.
(Pg 371) When I spoke to Paul Irving on January 3 and asked for perimeter reinforcement from the National Guard, he responded quickly with concern for the
"optics" of having the military on the Hill, adding that "the intelligence doesn't support it."
(Pg 83) Several weeks after January 6, I had the chance to ask Stenger if he had been given a heads-up that I was coming to request the Guard, and he told me that Irving had called him and said, "Sund just came to my office asking for National Guard assistance. We need to come up with another plan. I will never get this by Pelosi."
From the Book:
(Pg 142) 12:58 p.m. After I get off the phone with Carroll, I hit the speed dial for Irving. When he picks up, I say, "We are getting overrun by protesters on the West Front! I need approval to request the National Guard immediately!" I already asked for the National Guard to assist on the perimeter three days ago, but the two sergeants at arms made it abundantly clear that this wasn't an option for me. Now I am hoping for a much different response.
"Let me run it up the chain," Irving replies, referring to the House leadership. I know he can hear the stress in my voice, and I trust he understands the gravity of the situation. "I'll call you back."
(Pg 10) The House sergeant at arms (HSAA), Paul Irving, nominated by Speaker Pelosi and voted in by the House.
(pg 147) 1:12 p.m. As Trump is concluding his speech, I am watching the violent struggle on the screen in front of the dais. It's a view from directly above a group of officers and rioters on the north side of the inaugural platform on the lower West Terrace.
From the Book:
(pg 20) As chief of the USCP, the rules are based on statutes within the US Code (2 USC $ 1974 and 2 USC § 1970) which restrict the ability to obtain the needed support for officers. These two statutes prohibited the USCP from calling in the National Guard or federal
law enforcement support in advance of an event unless the Capitol Police Board had enacted a declaration of emergency and obtained the approval of congressional leadership.
One statute provides that in an emergency situation, which requires only only to secure the approval of the House or Senate SAA to be able to request help from executive-branch agencies. The statute further stipulates that in these emergency situations, the chief can request assistance on matters related to that SAA's specific chamber, and the request must be in writing. In other words, during an emergency, the House or Senate sergeant at arms can authorize support from an executive-branch agency, but only for that particular side of the Capitol.
The chief must obtain approval from both the House and Senate SAAs to request support across the Hill.
It's important to understand the process that the USCP undertakes when planning for any public event, and the role that the various units within the department play in this combined effort. Like any other law enforcement agency, the USCP plans for events based on the available intelligence. Considerations such as staffing, perimeters, permits for First Amendment activity, enhancing the protection for members of Congress, and activating civil disturbance units are all based on this intelligence. The more accurate the intelligence, the better the planning and the event's security will be.
I was surprised to learn from the report of the select Committee to investigate January 6th:
“Federal and local law enforcement authorities were in possession of multiple streams of intelligence predicting violence directed at the Capitol prior to January 6th.”
“The Failure to sufficiently share and act upon that intelligence jeopardized the lives of the police officers defending the capital and everyone in it.”
Hilarious spot on reference, lol.
“You got a dog wife Ted” - Trump
Ben is doing such mental gymnastics. It’s clear he doesn’t believe at all in MAGAs election nonsense but is such a partisan he can’t openly disavow them.
Yes because both sides push for it. If he were to say anything bad the dems would rip him to shreds! And that’s stupid because that’s why nobody is willing to say they are wrong. Politicians have learned that people are more willing to deny lies than to hear their leaders admit wrongs. Which is insanely dumb because everyone is wrong sometimes but not everyone has to lie. But if lying is what the American people want then that’s what they will get. The problem with this country is US
He's like half of the trump voters. Trump is terrible. But not as terrible as Joe. It's as simple as that. He said multiple times that trump wasn't that competent or rational. And yet you still think Ben is a MAGA.
@@TheSignofJonah777 I said the opposite. He’s clearly not MAGA but cucks for trump because short of supporting Hamas he will bend over backwards and reshuffle all of his principles for the red team.
@@TheSignofJonah777 Don’t try to talk sense into haters.
It's pretty simple what Ben is. A traitor of his country for financial gain.
I checked 3 times to make sure I didn’t put the playback speed to 1.5.
Shapiro is so insane that I often think he speeds up his video. But he's just as speeded here.
🤣🤣🤣
😅😅😅 me too. Jesús. I had to put him on .75x. Hahahaha
😂😂
i listen at a minimum 1.5 every video and 1.5 sounds faster that 2 for most of it lol
I think the whole country needs to watch how these guys were able to sit down and have a rational discussion on how to examine both side of this and any issues that deeply concern this nation,and let each guy talk without losing their minds.
Have u try to talk to someone who thinks they can be a girl on Monday and boy Tuesday 😂
There are crazy people everywhere you go.
You're a doo doo head
I wouldn't say that these two are on both sides of this issue. I would have preferred someone like Barnes rather than Shapiro for this debate.
@@Bidenfriend I am talking to one on UA-cam right now.
I love it when two people who disagree with one another can still sit and have a reasonable conversation without shouting and name calling. One of the things that we’re missing in todays times.
Well, Destiny is a very good representation of sanity in leftism. He knows which fights to pick, and he will rarely do the 'virtue signaling' that a lot of other leftist advocates do. Ben Shapiro tends to revert back into his litigation side when in these kind of debates, as opposed to the more 'sound byte' stuff he does at colleges.
So Ben makes a lot of good legal points that even leftists should see reason in, and Destiny makes a lot of good philosophical points that even conservatives should see reason in.
😂 apparently not
They both agree to hate on Trump, just ones a lefty tyrant and ones a religious conservative.
True.
even when one is clearly correct
It’s crazy how rare this quality is becoming. It’s almost non existent on tv and in media. I think regular ppl are still capable of civil discourse though, at least when they’re not behind a keyboard 😕
The answer is simple. If Trump didn't have that speech before it happened, would the insurrection have happened. One million percent no.
You know the future or past how it would be different because of a speech? 😂
@@markkasprzyk3287 so nieve, but thanks for posting
That’s absurd rationale. If the capital wasn’t a building people wouldn’t be able to go into it so blame the building. If there wasn’t a speech happening most of the people wouldn’t have been there so blame a speech that in no way suggested people break any laws but was simply the reason people were there.
What caused the dozens of BLM riots? All he said was to protest peacefully to have our voices heard. It’s called the freedom of speech & the right to peacefully protest bud, that’s all Trump ever suggested. Not to mention all the other facts surrounding jan6th, it’s was definitely a planned event by Trumps opposition. If anyone’s to blame it’s Pelosi who denied Trumps request to have the national guard present because she was the one behind the whole thing.
@TheWedgeWizard first of all regarding your Pelosi comment, you are 100 % wrong. Can I get your address , I want to send you a free copy of my free speech mushroom book. Where I incorrectly label poisonous mushrooms as safe to eat. Please move on I don't do stupid. There is no up upside to it
@@grantdevries8648 yea, just ignore the mountain of evidence proving Jan 6th was orchestrated by Nancy Pelosi via her firm grasp as the FBI’s genitals. Why do you think she denied Trumps prior requested to have the national Guards present at the capital that day? Turn off the news and read. You may be too far gone from years of mental abuse. Also your comment may have been the dumbest thing I’ve read since your previous comment. Pathetic.
This discourse was surprisingly civil
Let's be honest. Destiny isn't your average liberal. He even doesn't start every argument with "I feel like.."
You're right but its also weirder that i agree with 99% of destinys politicking as well as ben shapiro same percentage.@
Thats called using your noodle. No one's got a monopoly on truth
Shouldn't be surprising considering who is participating
So, Shapiro endorsed Trump but believes him to be a delusional fool who will convince himself of falsehoods that benefit him? Pretty disgusting, no?
We still have the three separate judges in Arizona that agreed with Kari Lake but refused to overturn the election.
That really sucks.😡
Do you have a link to this claim. I voted for her and will again.
@@ZeusAchilles-zx8zg as it ended at the Supreme Court. How did it get that high? Because she won in lower courts. In the end they ruled it had taken too long to overturn the election, and they could not prove they planned to use the wrong sized ballots, yet it was only republicans who got the 18” paper . The first judge in the county case, I can’t find it in google but I did not keep scrolling past CNN and MSN stories to keep looking. But she won in the county court, then the lower state court before the state Supreme Court ended it as they were not going to overturn an election and allow the public to be just in distrusting the system, as corrupt as it is, is better than the hard work of responsible government. Much easier to dismiss it and avoid upheaval.
@ZeusAchilles-zx8zg you leftists all think alike, when you want it to go your way! You said the judges all tossed it out....therefore, nuff said! But when the Supreme Court overuled Roe v.Wade......yall were ready to start World War lll....the judges ruling didn't matter then did it? See what I mean?😅
@@ZeusAchilles-zx8zgdid you read up on the details of the cases beyond the ruling ?
It's nice when they let each other finish a thought.
The guard rails were people like Pence and Raffensperger having a spine. Now they're hated by almost everyone in their party for doing the right thing. That doesn't give me much hope for next time a republican is required to stand up and tell Trump no in a massive situation like that.
Make no mistake, Pence only “stood up” to Trump because his only other option would have been to break the electoral count act. He literally had no choice
Sounds like corruption
No,the guard rails are checks and balances lol
Destiny has come a long way since screaming people have autism on Starcraft 2.
i miss him and combatEX screaming at eachother but debates against ben shapiro are ok too i guess
The way he touches his pen he is obviously a self hating autist
Honestly he can go back to being cancelled, he's just riding the wave to revive his $$s
@@prolikethat5995 he got talent in speaking though
He wasent really "cancelled" because he purged the radical leftists from his comunity before that, people on twitter just didnt like that he made streams with Nick Fuentes and he got banned for saying trans women in sports wasent fair, but that didnt matter all that much
12:17 "He would fail because he failed one time before" Isn't there a flaw in the logic?
No, His contention is that it will always fail to happen if tried because of the guide rails in place
@@ddubya4097 @ddubya4097 Ben on the question 'Why would he fail? (in the future)' literally answering 'because he failed (in the past)'. If something has not happened on the first try, it does not mean it will not happen on the second try. If the first cue would have succeeded a bit better, and they would put their hands on voting machines for example, who knows in which state would the US be now.
@@Mackcolak-xf5bk your statement does not make mine false. I think Ben acknowledges there are plenty of 1% hypothetical scenarios, but chooses the one 99% likelihood.
@@ddubya4097 Yes, but your first statement is made false by Ben's words. He said nothing about guide rails in his reply that I put a time stamp to.
@@ddubya4097 So you think that the chance of a successful cue or other disruption of transfer of power is about 1% if Trump is a president? I'd give it about a 10-15% percent chance.
An insurrection doesn’t have to succeed to be an insurrection.
But it has to be orchastrated and it was not
He gathered all of his weak minded little. Snowflake followers there and he knew they couldn't control themselves, he loves little sheep@@youtubecensoringcomments7427
It does have to be an insurrection in order to be an insurrection, though.
@@colinbickford3470 no argument here
@@youtubecensoringcomments7427loads of proof that it was but ok.
24:06 Ben Shapiro says "he's not gonna do it AGAIN". That was a slip huh?
Little slip-up!
I think he meant “run for president again” but yet here he is lol
What a breath of fresh air! This is the clearest and fastest to get to the bottom of the points debate that I have ever seen, but the best part of this conversation is how respectful these two are being with each other. This is what has gone missing in America. Nice Job To All Three Of You! Thanks Lex
are you saying you thought jan 6th was an actual insurrection?
@@america1st721destiny fans have brain rot so probably
@@america1st721it was a failed one. The fact that ben admits that was Trump’s intent but it doesn’t matter cause we have check and balances… is ridiculous.
@@crisbernabe2866 define what an insurrection is to you.
@@america1st721jesus christ. You are the exact type of person this commenter is talking about. 😂😂😂 you are actually insufferable
it's hilarious how Destiny accelerated his speech to match Ben's fast forwarded mode of speech
He always speaks crazy fast in debates
That's actually just Destiny. I watch most videos at 2x speed but if it's a Destiny video I usually have to slow him down to 1.5x speed to be able to just follow along. Ben Shapiro would probably be included in this but I don't watch him as much.
@@xJae14x fair enough, l don't really know the guy, but boy! these two are shot out of a cannon!
@@KennyKakes1 gotcha!
Adderall
Seeing Ben bent into a pretzel to defend Trump is chef's kiss.
Bent into a pretzel?! Ben conceited on several Trump character flaws, but destiny was reaching on a lot of “what if” 😂
@@jnammur he had a bunch of" what ifs"
Shapiro acknowledges Trump is not reasonable.
lol, UA-cam still pushing the “context” box.
And blocking comments, and allowing bogus reporting
Which is understandable because Trumpers still believe in conspiracies that the election was rigged.
Final boss: listening to this on 2x speed
Haha
I don't think Trump thinks he lost the election. I'd say 80% of Trump's base doesn't think that either.
Because he probably didn't.
Problem is there’s a lot more believing in the Trump camp rather than thinking.
You're right, that is the problem. People listen to the media without doing their own research. They think they are thinking but they are actually letting the media dictate what they think. @@mkrj2576
yeah he did, maybe only just but them's the breaks. I've been on the wrong side of a close vote, no fun, you remember them more than the wins but you have to suck it up.
@@PACinaBOOMSTICKhe did bro, he lost all 60 actions he moved lol
Shapiro is just in disbelief at how ignorant this guy is 😂
Why is Destiny dancing with these insane hypotheticals? People are saying this is a good debate. Its respectful, but Destiny is saying some wild shit here
Kind of a reach. Nothing he said is that wild. He's asking hypotheticals that could have happened pretty easily. Trump putting someone in power that won't tell him no?
Him running as an independent? (Which he said probably won't happen)
The entire reason he has to bring it to hypotheticals in the first place is because Ben "grades to trump on a curve" and he can't bring up anything that you'd normally criticize people for because "he's Trump" Conservatives may not be as idealist as liberals, but they're definitely hypocritical.
Trump picked Vance specifically because he said he would go along with his elector scheme, the supreme court has also granted him criminal immunity.
I know this is 6mo later but it's clearly not hypothetical anymore
Destiny loves starting his argument with “But what if” lol
and people with no debate experience love pretending destiny is unique in this sense
good try tho lil guy
Health way to vote. Need to weigh the future of the next four years. If only the general populations vote meant anything.
Hypothetical counterexamples are a mainstay in philosophical debate
“lol” gross 😂
@@TheJamesLykins You know what else is a mainstay in debate? Being even 1% informed. Blatantly unlike Destiny.
How many liters of coffee before this debate??? Slow it down a bit, fellas. Some of us are high.
Ditto
You do have the option to slow the video down
This isn't nearly as fast as either of them talk, honestly
It's called Adderall
What Ben is saying here is actually insane given he will vote for Trump. He's saying, I don't think we should we should stop someone from running who constitutes the single most extreme threat to our democracy that we've seen, in terms of a presidential candidate.
Now that's maybe justifiable along similar reasoning to freedom of speech, but why on earth would you risk voting for that person. Ben has unshakeable faith in the guardrails of the nation, but then acknowledges that Trump both did try and take them down before, and that he'll do so again from a more efficacious position -there's grading on a curve and then there's blind bloody optimism!
Looking back on this discussion now, it really does feel like the civility masks just how utterly radical some of the contortions one has to make in order to support Trump are! The contention is over the assessment of Trump's likelihood to do irreperable harm to American democracy, but given the attempted insurrection and his rhetoric, the 'he's only joking and if he isn't then the system will hold' defence feels like a wholly unsatisfactory level of risk.
No different than the Democrats at all. I can’t stand Trump but he didn’t put boys in the bathrooms of high school girls and in women’s sports. He didn’t allow millions of illegals in the country. He didn’t introduce the “misinformation” nonsense, which is truly the most serious threat to democracy. The FBI controlled social media intentionally to influence an election so the Democrats are as bad as anything they have accused Trump of doing. Trump is definitely the lesser of two evils.
Lex is not only a good interview but also an excellent moderator!
I think just an awesome human being too - wish the internet had more Lexes🥰
by staying quite !!! lol
staying quite 'what' - quiet? heehee@@raviShri2099
@@raviShri2099 exactly so just shut up and let people enjoy their delightful content food
He didnt moderate shit!
Great discussion. Love this. First time I’ve ever seen Destiny being so respectful and almost deferring on points because of the clear respect he has for Shapiro. Interesting.
This was my first time listening to Destiny... I'm impressed by the whole discussion. And my take away is that Ben's opinion is based on legal truths, while Destiny's opinion is based on his emotional reasoning with an unbelievably strong amount of logic.
This whole discussion was genius. Two of the best speakers who have nearly perfect opposing ideas.
I may have to watch some content from this destiny guy!!! He was great.
@@gian-lucbrasseur207its called rationalizing delusion
This was his biggest opportunity so he had to be 1,000 percent pro
Ive always found destiny to be respectful when Ive watched him
@@gian-lucbrasseur207 until the last sentence. "you should elected donald trump so he wont cause election interference" ....
Anytime UA-cam puts a wrong think tab under a video I know to believe the opposite.
Exactly 👆👆👆👆👆
So either way, you're not thinking? Weird.
Want a video sharing site without context and fact checking? Go make one bootlicker
Literally called being a sheep of the other heard. Loser
I can’t believe you are that stupid 🤣
When you start by admitting moral failings and defining “incitement” so you can find a loophole in the definition you’ve already lost.
This sentence makes 0 sense. Admitting moral failings does not change a definition of a word.
There is a set legal definition of insurrection and incitement, and trump didn’t meet those. There’s no ‘loophole’ here. Its just the law
That’s Ben’s whole strategy. Once you accept that 0=1 then he can prove that 1=2 and so on.
What loophole did Ben use?
What? When you’re arguing about something, define the precise parameters of the argument, and then prove that those parameters weren’t met, then that’s how you win an argument.
You’re not making any sense.
Went from a legal debate to an emotional debate really quick. Ben wins.
so what did you think about all the different ways Trump tried to sabotage the election?
i like that they can talk to each other without insults, refreshing
agreed, need more of this
For you American as a outsider who lived in the States for 13 years - Ben Shapiro might come off as intellegent but in reality he is slimey bull shit lawyer who has fascist tendancies not a great guy.
you shouldnt hate somebody more than you love logic or rationality
The point is guardrails don’t fail unless there is a nuclear war. It’s hard for peabrains to realize
@@hijklmnopreaperI mean, most people couldn’t give less of a shit about who the person is but what their policies are and how they will affect their livelihood and the trajectory of their country. Trump will be an 82 year old man with no path towards reelection in 2028. The guy has always been a big egotist, and was in denial about losing the election, that doesn’t mean there’s a huge risk of him taking drastic measure to become a term less dictator.
@@hijklmnopreaper its you that has found a man guilty of accusations with no conviction in the court of law. That is communist/nazi tier justice. take that deep perspective you think you have and turn it on yourself. or stay blind and controlled.
Anyone that still believes Trump is responsible and not Pelosi and the FBI shouldn’t be allowed to have kids or vote
Calling everything TDS is so boring
No mention of the FBI "inciting an insurrection".
Because they didn't
I was surprised that didn’t come up considering the overwhelming mountain of evidence that they did.
@@DonDon-ss4dq because they did. go watch ray epps for example
@@TheWedgeWizardin other words, zero evidence.
Maybe this individual can explain why they would not verify the mail in ballots. Against the voter registration database for verification of the mail in ballots.
You know it was the rush to certify and the oh so adamant refusal to check anything along with the aggressive response towards anyone that even hinted that something was amiss that really started making me wonder if there was not some fire behind that smoke. It certainly gave the appearance of someone eager to hide something.
because you just made all that up...I can play this game too. Perhaps you can tell me why Trump raped 74 people and stole every document from the White House and sold them to China for 3$? You see...I made all that up...thats what YOU sound like when trying to parse out reality. It's all in your head because some other Trump cult member TOLD you it.
Wierd how trumps own people didn't find any election fraud. But yeah keep coping, your boy lost
Where did you get this info from? Not calling you out, I'm j genuinely curious bc I've been very far behind with this whole ordeal.
@@jedicraftmaster2426you should be calling out the lies. That's what they are...
i keep seeing people use that word "insurrection" but i dont think it means what they think it means.
I think Destiny did a really good job of explaining the topic because the really dangerous part was the behind-the-scenes lobbying of governors and state officials (and Pence) to throw away the election results, while the Jan 6 riot was just the public face of an authoritarian power grab.
Correct.
Oh, a closer example would easily be the extreme left "autonomous zones" that popped up declaring they aren't part of America anymore.
Make it make sense.
Only two people use that word for Jan 6th, people that have an agenda but know it's BS and the people that follow the left-wing media narrative like sheep.
Open doors and let people in?
Inconceivable!
This gives me hope that the two sides can peacefully coexist. The level of respect they each have for each other here is fantastic.
What? Destiny refused the facts. This shows no hope actually
Sure. But when Ben goes back to his podcast, he’ll be the irrational partisan shill, he normally is. Wish he was like this all the time.
@@KortovElphamewhat facts? Ben put forth his opinions about Trump after Steven laid out the facts of the matter. Ben MUST defend Trump in order to circumvent the 14th amendment regardless of the facts, and that is clearly demonstrated here.
They both hate Trump and deny election fraud. That makes it easy to get along. Shapiro's argument was "Trump is delusional and wrong, but there are 'guardrails'." Why would Destiny even argue?
Ryan Dawson vs Destiny was a much better debate.
There's nothing Trumpists can't and wont rationalize
There is nothing TDS patients can't rationalize objectively. What's your point?
Civil discussion but I essentially heard Destiny only explain his/liberals' emotional dilemma with Trump. Their issue is a moral issue, based on their biased view of course, but not really a legal argument. Destiny did his best to merge the moral and legal towards the same outcome and conclusion but it just doesn't work because he's wrong, or else it would be the same outcome
It's the responsibility of the president to respect the rule of law and to put the country before themselves, Trump tried to lie and cheat and manipulate any way he could to reverse the outcome of the election, the exact opposite of those two things. It's not about morality, it's about him not qualifying for the office because he's a narcissistic liar who will say anything and do anything to elevate his own status and gain power.
Good debate, but it became clear someone’s feelings simply got hurt by Trump and that’s about it.
To bad we live a two party dictatorship. To bad we have congressmen an senators that are in there for 50 years ! You people are lost !!!!
Wow, I have listened to Shapiro and Destiny before, but separately. Amazed the way this discussion went. I am going to listen to the whole thing
Good job Ben. Never get dragged into a feeling based argument with a Democrat. That's right where they want you to go. Then they can attack your character and attack you morally based on their fairy tale feelings.
Lol did u even watch the clip or are u just crying cause ur orange man was talked down to? 😅
I agree, Ben did very well avoiding that nonsense.
Destiny "ya but, ya but, ya but"
Ya but at least he’s on topic and respectful 😂
I am just tired of how idiotic society has become.
Agreed the police and their enforcers incited the violence, and there wasn't an insurrection. The amount of widespread voter fraud was incredible and there's and amazing amount of evidence, there was no fake electors those electors are required by the constitution.
Cool to see Michael Buble moderating a political debate !
Dude keep using " I think" "I feel..."
He doesn’t think, but it’s all how he feels
Typical Ben Shapiro always talking about his feelings
@@andrewseidl7590what are you on?
Any reasonable person would acknowledge that voting rules changed without legislature in several states. And at least say, hmmmm?!?!?
The Democrat Supreme Court of PA ruled verifying signatures on mail in ballots is illegal bc it's racist. What guard rails to prevent fraud even exist then? You could check to see if your mail in ballots was counted on the PA.gov website so I did a search and filtered by birth date. There was a few dozen with the birth date listed as 1800 and maybe 1000 voters born in 1801. This would make them older than the oldest living person on Earth. No one ever got back to me when I asked how this is possible. People still say there's no evidence of fraud.
Any reasonable person would acknowledge that if you’re gonna claim mass fraud with lawyers and have 60 court cases and then show up and say “yeah we don’t have evidence” and all 60 got thrown out and it’s readily accessible public court - it didn’t happen
Personally, I think no one can even be a nominee without being controlled. That includes Trump. It's all a show to divide people.
What insurrection? Calling it an insurrection doesn't make it so.
The one for which there are now several convictions and long prison sentences.
@@dmbeaster The one for which not one person was charged with Insurrection. Look up the word.
Well done. We need more debates like this.
They happen in classrooms and science based communities daily. Education is paramount
Yes but instead of destiny find someone on the left without trump derangement syndrome who can use logic over emotion
Destiny is clueless
Most politicians make promises that they don't keep
Destiny doesn't even know who the last guy was to incite his wife.
Destiny: “If we apply the law as written specifically here… and if we expand the definitions of the law loosely there, and if we eliminate the innocent until proven guilty foundation of the legal system… then Trump is an insurrectionist.”
so what did you think about all the different ways Trump tried to sabotage the election?
can someone be a murderer if they are not convicted of murder?
@@Mmeetthhooss No. Murder is a legal term.
There is negligence, (you forgot to close a floor hatch on a fourth floor and someone stepped through and died…)
There is homicide (a pedestrian jumped in front of your car and you couldn’t stop on time, you hit them and they died.)
There is self defense (someone was actively trying to kill you and you killed them in self defense).
There is murder (You intentionally pursued and achieved the death of a person)
There can not be an insurrectionist without an insurrection. Not a single person from J6 has been accused of insurrection because the whole Justice system knows it wasn’t…
Only they news and tv shows try to trick people saying it was an insurrection.
@Mmeetthhooss
It’s cute you found that in one of your podcasts where people spend their lives talking about trump.
But were you going to make an actual point beyond philosophizing ideas? You’re in legal waters now. Not in a college lecture hall run by a trans blue haired anti trump figure.
Same with Destiny not being able to articulate, asking a vague idea more shows me you have nothing beyond your trope. So why bother? Read more and maybe you’ll find the proof you need.
@@ericmatos1025 so what is oj simpson if not a murderer? a killer? seems like semantics to me
Amazing conversation. Intelligent, calm, respectable disagreements and even agreements. What a treat in today's polarized landscape.
Except for the blue haired fool.
18 minutes in Ben still hasn’t responded to the opening question and starts interrupting. First 40 minutes were brutal. The rest was hard to watch but better
Objection to a blatant party-funded network of illegal ballot harvesting is somehow a 'threat to democracy' or an 'insurrection'
And the hashtag bunkerbaby White House arsonfest was merely a 'patriotic protest'
And a 'collusion' story fabricated by the opposition party to sabotage a Presidency and attempt a political soft coup was 'just politics'
Destiny is insane
Civility all too often just allows the ignorant to express their views without ever having to compromise. In the face of sound and solidly logically expressed points. This thing might as well be a talking point soundboard for Ben.
@@stalwartzero7001exactly. Apparently lots of people can’t see past surface. And think this was an equal debate🤦♂️
Ben is toying with this guy 😂 didn't even go Super Saiyan...
Also, I think Ben was only going at 3/4 pace for most of it.
You only say that because you agree with Ben.
@@basicguy5785
Not really. Just have watched Ben in these types of debates before. There is arsenal he didn't use in this discussion.
Jan 6 is not even vlose to be a big issue on the ballot....
List of major issues in order of piority to the illegal American.
1. Economy
2. Illegal immigrants
3. Abortion
4. Troops in the Middle East
5. Israel war
6. Ukraine support
Yeah but it should be #1. Commitment to democratic institutions is far more important than those issues. It’s not even close.
@@Xhw3288 100%. Without democratic institutions, we wouldn't even have the means to address those original points 1-6.
@@Xhw3288 lol commitment to democratic institutions??? Sounds like Forced commitment.
Destiny talks from a point of what ifs in my opinion.
You’re opinion is you think it’s all opinions 😂
On the other side of the coin, Ben talks with nothing but false confidence. He says a few facts and then he makes barely relevant claims with 100% surety, which is a great way to get an A in speech and debate class, but you lose validity by refusing to gauge yourself accurately.
@@longviolinfilms You guessed wrong about what _surety_ means.
@@dixonpinfold2582The state of being sure or certain of something? You're out here incorrectly correcting people.
@@longviolinfilms The word _surety_ refers to a guarantor, a back-up person who formally promises to make certain that some obligation will be met, if not by the party who pledged to do it in the first place, then by he or she himself/herself. It may also mean the guarantee itself. As a word with those highly specific meanings it's been around for centuries.
Using it as a novel and would-be fancy substitute for _certainty_ is illiterate or (charitably) semi-literate and any dictionary which includes that sense is simply one which takes the descriptive stance so far as to dispense with any distinction between literacy and illiteracy. That's their right, just as it's anyone's right to abuse the language. We live in the age of rights. _Yous_ are free to write as _yous_ like.
Who is Ray Epps?
Wasn't he the federal agent, dressed in Trump gear, who, the night before, was inciting this saying "WE NEED TO GO INTO THE CAPITOL?" That Ray Epps?
Or was it the Ray Epps who served no jail time, was never arrested, then given a 500 dollar fine, and one year probation? I'm confused.
Yes.. there are several RED FLAGS that would justify Trump saying the election was stolen. Perhaps his word choice was not great but it's a fact that the people were not informed on things they should have been prior to the election.
81 million votes 😂 C'MON man!... America is NOT that dumb
@@jonearley Oh...you know him? lol
@avery1990 I would personally never be associated with such a vile person. It was just a guess. 😁
Lex does a really good job as moderator. You can usually tell in these debates which side the moderator falls on, he does a good of just wanting to let his guests be the ones who take sides.
Ben, you of all people should understand what "adjudicated in court" means. None of the evidence was ever presented before a judge. Everything was dismissed on technicalities.
Absolutely love your way of interviewing people
Liberals r discusting 🤢
He isn't doing an interview here though. He is monitoring a debate.
thanks for clipping this, Lex Clips!
The only issue is that the alternate elector path has been taken already..no one brings this up
In my opinion Knowingly disseminating false information is all Washington DC does. They have laws that make them immune from prosecution for lying.
Who got charged with insurrection?
Not a single person were charged, just put in jail over other things.
No one
I was surprised that a few people got charged with sedition…
Nobody has ever been charger with insurrection in american history even after the civil war
ENRIQUE TARRIO
It’s kind of hilarious how Ben writes notes while Destiny speaks, this is common practice for lawyers. And Destiny does the same to Ben when it’s his turn, but Destiny is clearly mimicking Ben to try and get into his head.
Ben’s whole argument is based on legality, while Destiny’s is based on his superior “morality”. Idk, something about all this is very amusing to me.
Not Superior Morality, common sense, reasonableness
@@davidjackson4606you sound vaccinated triple even
@@davidjackson4606 What common sense and reasonableness?
Destiny takes notes on every debate I’ve ever seen him on. You sound so vapid and stupid
Go watch any other of Destinys debates that happened before this. He takes notes very consistently and has been for a while.
Can someone tell me one reason why Destiny's opinion matters on a single thing? How did this guy become someone that Lex Fridman says is one of the best political debaters in the world?
I would ask the same question about Ben Shapiro. Both were invited because they are big on the internet, nothing more, nothing less.
@@elonif4125 I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro but Shapiro graduated from Harvard Law School and briefly practiced law. He's written books. He founded a formidable media company.
Destiny got famous as a video game streamer on Twitch.
@@benjaminhundley9093none of those mean that Ben Shapiro can’t be wrong
Wow. So those supreme Court decisions in Wisconsin that included that there were way over the amount of bolts or balance counted that were illegally cast that's not enough to change the election in wisconsin? Decisions in Pennsylvania which show that again balance were counted illegally and mixed inside with the rest of the legally cast balance. That doesn't count? What about Detroit's issues where there was illegal pressure put on the election judges who knew that laws were not followed concerning accounting of votes and that there were multiple tens of thousands of balance cast and inserted into the system that they could not prove actually vote were cast by voters that doesn't count. Then we have Georgia and arizona. All of those States counted balance that were illegally inserted into the overall election totals and were illegal according to laws passed by a previous legislature and signed by a governor. Then we have all of the fuel footage which shows how they did it. Now we have that recent study which asked people if they had allowed people or if they had acted in actions that were illegal when they cast their ballot or multiple ballots and a huge percent of them were against the state laws from where they voted. Our elections are broken and the Democrats know how to play the game by getting into very popular areas and manipulating and injecting balance that don't belong to anybody and get it into the main count and separate it from voters records and that there is no way for anybody to prove that those balance are illegal. In all of those States you had almost 100% voting in those precincts and some were over 100% of the maximum number of ballots that could be cast legally. Republicans are going to win they need to put a clamp on this. And the best way to do it is to have one day for elections and it is in our constitution and basically only military people would have an exception and if you can't figure out a way to get to the polls and maybe you should make decisions concerning the future of our country. That was what the Texas lawsuit was about because those states that don't have all these problems and live by their laws have to put up with Joe Biden allowing this invasion on the southern border and who knows what's going to happen in the next year with all of the known terrorists that are coming into our country just because he was selected and not elected.
Reading all your comments makes me love how a neocon and a wokeman get together to have coffee and discuss how much they hate Trump!
He’s not woke dude. He literally did a video debating college kids (like crowder style) saying “wokeness has gone too far, change my mind”
January 6th was not an insurrection 🙄
What’s wild is I’m not even that old and I remember the democrats claiming electoral fraud after both Bush and Trump were elected
Imagine if families with different points of view could sit at dinner and discuss like this. The country would be less divided.
Yeah, because they are both on the same side.
@@magpieradio they are not though..
It was possible before MAGA
Yeah, the left lost it, like little babies after Trump won. They are all so pathetic. Whimpy, OK with men in women's sports, OK with no borders and constantly voting for people who want to start wars. Trump is the only president not to start a new war yet lefties get upset. Jokes on them. @@trkddy
Imagine if our Republican family members didn’t become violently angry because you brought up the first counter argument to their Fox News talking points in months and stormed off like children.
This “debate” is Ben explaining things to Destiny. He used to be good if you watch Destiny v Fuentes irl video, now he’s so bad.
That guy dreaming circles on his pad is nervous asf
How? Destiny debates 100x more than Ben does every day.
@@DrunkDuckXDand according to all the comments here in chat Destiny lost which makes it “100x” sweeter.
@@jayzr8938 Conspiracy Theory No. 345 Right Wing Nut Jobs Believe: Ben won this debate
There was nothing even close to an insurrection
Yeah it was a giant failure because the IQ of MAGA is so low
Many people have been charged with sedition
That might get overturned quite soon on account they had to apply one law in a way it was never applied before (it was mainly just written after corporate scandals so they couldn't just destroy files. It was never meant to apply to protestors whi just being there could hypothetically delay a proceeding, which they didn't even do). SCOTUS rightfully interpreted the law correctly by using the articles to show where it was meaning.
Thus the leverage they used for the convictions you mentioned might not stand for long now. Just saying.
Closer than anything else we have experienced in this country.
@@Jfavorite1483 Oh, we've had full blown insurrections, and a civil war to boot.
Do you think these people know what a "coup" is?
Watching this I actually had to check to make sure I didn’t have the 2x speed on. Damn this was rapid fire discussion.
Me too. They didn’t grow up in the South 😂
Not sure what was said here but Shapiro looked like he forced concessions out of Destiny so my cave man brain says Shapiro took this one. 🤔
Actually the police and their enforcers incited the violence, and there wasn't an insurrection. The amount of widespread voter fraud was incredible and there's and amazing amount of evidence, there was no fake electors those electors are required by the constitution.
so what did you think about all the different ways Trump tried to sabotage the election?
😅
You should think
This is a good example of logically sound versus emotionally clouded.
Our presidential debates should be help in studio on a podcast
Very civil job. Well done guys
Really enjoyed this from both sides. Congrats to Ben and destiny, you guys rock
"Hasn't Trump himself joked about running for a third term?" - Destiny
You know who else has? Obama, on tape, in a news interview.
@@saviormoney.Yeah his lackey Joe is in power right now
Yeah, I wonder which one a reasonable person would worry might not be joking. I'll give you a hint, it's not Obama.
@@jamesmatson5205 he doesn't have to joke. He's running the country into the ground as we speak.
@@MattLockhart wait...who is running the country into the ground as we speak?
@@jamesmatson5205 Obama, Pelosi, Schumer - with Biden/Kamala as their puppet scapegoats.
Humblest I’ve seen destiny when he’s conversing with a real lawyers and a guy that knows his stuff
Excruciating to watch when someone (Destiny) doesn’t understand how the law actually works. Legal terms and elements absolutely matter. This has been the problem with a lot of criticism of Trump. People seem to conflate immoral or inappropriate behavior with illegal actions. The two are not the same.
Since there was no insurrection January 6th, the question is absurd.
I greatly appreciate how the discussion remains civil, but it's impossible to shake the fact that it's a grown adult debating a toddler.
Which one's which
Ben is the adult but not grown
Destiny is grown but also a toddler
Grown adult with a 5year old kid voice?
They could talk about the chaos that did surround elections that year and how states withheld information regarding voting and the counting ballots after removing republican poll watchers
Of course he did. Getting him held to account for anything in the climate that he has wrought is like herding eels.
I am not through the whole video yet, but it is so refreshing to see two opposing views TALK and LISTEN, I am so tired of people talking over each other, this has, so far, been great.
I agree but the basement dude showed his true TDS colors at the end
Destiny: "Yea, but what if..."
......What if you weren't ignorant?
11:03 Destiny literally says “I don’t think insurrection… is about right.” Down for the count.
The whole world watched a sequence of events play out on TV over 2 months- we watched Trump tell the proud boys to stand by, he told them to march down to the capital- Ben is from the Alena Habba school of lawyers
That's the thing, the whole world watched it which totally de-arms the gaslighting and faux intellectualism from the likes of Shapiro. Most people still believe their own ears and eyes, thankfully.
I always have to double-check the playback speed when Ben Shapiro is in a video, like did I bump this to 1.5x speed on accident??
I literally just did the same!😂
Its a red flag for weak arguments IMO. Not always the case but it always raises an eyebrow for me.
As a fan of debates AND using 1.5x speed to absorb information faster ....when some one intentionally speaks in a way that makes it LESS likely they'll be understood its an indicator they don't want you thinking about what they say too critically imo.
@@interloc1290It’s not a debate tactic, that’s just how Ben talks. He talks the same way to friends and in interviews.
It’s a pretty common speech cadence in California, where he’s from. I grew up in California and Ben is perfectly understandable to me, though I do recognize many people think he speaks too quickly to follow effectively.
@@interloc1290 Normally I would think you would have a point this is just the way that Ben speaks you can look back at quite literally everything he has ever done and it's the same cadence.
@@interloc1290 ive listened to him for years and hes always spoke at that speed.. and ive always understood him perfectly .. if someone in a debate spoke very quickly to intentionally not be understood that would make them lose debates right? Very interesting theory