Ep 3: Dolby ATMOS Home Theater speaker placement done right! Home Theater setup | Home Theater Gurus
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- 👉✅How to properly lay out Dolby Atmos for your Home Theater. See the newer Atmos videos as well for updated placement info.
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Seriously......great video man. Thanks
Thanks!
By far the easiest way to work out 45 degree angles. Used it today and the process worked brilliantly. Thanks a lot!
Thanks so much for this video. My Atmos setup was all wrong and after watching this video i have removed all my height speakers and redoing it all the way you suggested. The work to do the rewiring and speaker mounting is going to take above a week. The only problem i am facing is the shape of the room where the front is 7' 3" and the back side is 8' 10". The size of the room is 15' wide and 16' length. The 8' 10" area is 10ft length and 7' 3" area is 6'. After measurements seated 5' from the wall I have managed to get all atmos speakers in the 8' 10" area. I hope i am making no mistake with all 6 height speakers are angled towards me and are 60degrees away from each other. Once again thank you for a much needed video.
How does it sound now
Your videos are fantastic!
Lots of great info here. Thank you!
Loving these videos! Head is blown at moment, loads to take in and back to drawing board for me lol
This is great! I'll use this when I add my ceiling speakers.
Wow awesome video. A video that explains the placement in a simple way.
I'm in the process of installing Atmos speakers at home so this video came in really handy. Thanks!
Outstanding information and format thank you a zillion times
Thanks Dave! See the newer atmos videos like ep 49.
Loving these videos, head blown away with details! Back to drawing board for me lol
Thanks Evil. Be sure and check out the newer one on ATmos mistakes.
thank you on your video I used your advice and my 6 Atmos speakers sound amazing good advice.
Thanks for your time !
Thank you so much.. This was the exact type of information I needed.. Liked and Subbed.
Thanks Paul!
Good information. I got lucky placing my 4 height speakers before watching any instructional videos. I assume using the common sense approach would work just as good. I also have directional tweeters.
I have all klipsh for my 5.2 and my 2 atmos cieling speakers are sonance. They sound really good. Like you said if you can match do it but it's not necessary
First off, let me say you have helped me out a lot, your videos are awesome. I have a quick question and I am still confused where to place my speakers. I have 4 Bower and Wilkins CCM7.4 in-ceiling speakers and I am confused where to place them. My room is 13' x 23' x 6.9' and I have a 7.2 set up at the moment, all at 60 degree angles as you suggested, thanks, it sounds awesome. My main listening seat (row 1, I have two rows) is 13 feet back reclined from the screen and from the head reclined position to the ceiling is 4.4. So my question, where do I position the 4 speakers? I have watched your video on atmos placement, but I am still confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was going to go with the klipsch in-ceiling speakers, but I understand I would still be off axis. So I bought these because I understand they are at the correct 45 degree angle needed. Thank for any response and Happy New Year to you and your family.
I totally agree with NOT using in-ceiling speakers for overhead atmos if you want good quality. I found that out the hard way. I also recently added mounts to my atmos speakers which allowed me to angle them in the seating direction. Made a HUGE difference.
I do like in ceiling speakers but only if they have enough baffle angle to get the mlp on axis. That usually isn't cheap. But as you said it's a huge difference being on axis vs off axis.
Awesome videos.. How far apart should b
My top front left be from my top front right.. And same with top rear left to top rear right?
What about accounting for doors and windows when considering speaker placement ? Thinking on a practical level. But you give good sound advice. Nice one.
You do what you can with what you have to work with. Make as few compromises as possible. Of course sometimes compromises must be made
great info !
Thanks JJ!
First of all, bravo on how deep you go into this. I’m setting up a 5.1.2 system. What I want to learn is, how far apart should your Dolby speakers be. How far apart should your left and right speakers be? Should your front l/r speakers be facing the wall directly or be angled towards the main sitting position?
Can i ask where you ended up placing your height speakers. I’m looking to also setup a 5.1.2 system. I thinking of placing them directly on top (90 degrees from listening position).
I’m trying to lay out a 5.1.4 system and could use some guidance lol. Thanks so much for your time with all the vids. I’ll be using all in-walls for LRC & surrounds ( Klipsch 5502) & 4 Klipsch 5650 in ceiling’s
How would I compensate for an angled ceiling on one side? My room is 17’ wide and with the current recommendations the right front & rear would be placed on the 57* angled part of the ceiling. That’s screws a lot of stuff up.
Would it be best to just keep all the ceilings on the flat part even if it’s off center of the MLP? Wish I could upload a pic to explain better .
Thank you for this video since I know how to place my Atmos speakers, the distance and the configuration, because of this video. They are actually book shelves (Polk Audio tsi 100) which I will be using as in-ceiling speakers. Since my amplifier (Marantz) lets me only have front height and top middle configuration, I will be using this one, literally placing the front height approx at 50 degree, in case some day in an upgrade my Marantz let me configure top front and top middle. Any way my concern is that because of my room configuration my front right and front left speakers are also literally also at the top. They are not in the ceiling but 5 cm from the ceilings at the most. I will use audessey configuring but wanted to have your thoughts if this would work with my other 4 atmos speakers in ceiling as front height and top middle and specially if it would "crash" with my front heights ? Thank you !!!!!!
Quick question - if due to placement issues, we can only keep the front left and right around 50 degrees apart (instead of the optimal 60 degrees), do we still follow this for front height placement (even though we could go 60 degrees apart for the heights)? and I assume the top middle will be inline with whatever we do for the front height right?
Fantastic video. I need to bring in my Atmos speakers as they are in line with my mains. My room is big at 8.5m x 5.5 and I can not hear them at all. The only time I hear them is during test tones. Also too is that my mains position is governed by my 240.1 screen. This video has made me come to terms with what I have been thinking all along. Dolby need to be a little more specific when releasing images to the public by giving us some numbers to go on. After watching this video I have come to the conclusion that speaker placement is mathematical.
Yeah Dolby has some good info and some very conflicting bad information. Make sure and check out the much newer ep on Top Atmos Mistakes. It has some newer placement suggestions.
Thank you so much for these videos. Thanks to your help I was able to easily place my atmos speakers 55 degrees from the MLP. Maybe I missed it, but do you discuss toe in during any videos? My atmos speakers are Kef T101 and with the supplied bracket don’t have any tilt. However they’ve got a very wide dispersion. I know toe in is always best, but do you think the difference would be noticeable enough to warrant putting more holes in my ceiling and find a bracket that hopefully works with my speakers? They’re meant to sit flat on the wall so they disperse really well.
Love this, thanks. In each of your videos your examples are "one row seating". I have two rows and will be installing 4 flush mounted ceiling speakers for my Atmos, on a 7' ceiling. Would you mind chiming in on how I would place them?
Thanks Alec. I would cater to the MLP and don't let an overflow row impact your main row. Check out the newest atmos video on Atmos mistakes. I have some updated info on there.
I want to do 7.2.4, but I need to buy a new receiver first (next year when the new ones come out), the other issue is my room is an odd shape, the way I'd like to work it means the MLP gets the best effect, but one of the secondaries will get really dicked over by this setup. Oh well, as close as I can get it in this room.
This is great information.
Q: what if you have a second row? Is evert
Thing still set up based on the primary listening position? Or the second row changes the height channels?
This video helped me to decide on the placement of my Atmos speakers. I am upgrading from 5.1.1 to 5.1.2. My sofa is backed with a rear wall with rear surrounds just a few cms away. The placement of Atmos speakers should be Top Middle or Top front? Based on my understanding from the videos, I guess it should be at 20-30 degrees from MLP? Please suggest? Thanks
Im working on 10ft wide & 13.4ft depth. Ears about 3.5ft from the ceiling. So ceiling atmos will be 3.5ft in front of me & behind.
Im doing the 1/4 & 3/4 rule for how far in they should be which for 10ft wide its 10ft/4 which equals 2.5ft. So from the left wall its 2.5ft & the right wall its 2.5ft inward. Makes a 5ft gap between L/R atmos channel & the front to rear its a 7ft which Makes it narrower than the mains and perfect central on the LP for the atmos.
Hey man, great video !
I run a 7.2 setup and want to upgrade to atmos (4 ch) but for various reasons I can't have bookshelves hanging from the ceiling at your recommended angles (55/55). My question is this : would you rather have aimed bookshelves at 45°/45° placement (this I can do) or down-firing in-ceiling speakers at 55°/55° for atmos ? Which would give the best sensation of having something overhead ? Thanks a lot, and once again, love your videos !
I've a 5.1.2 capable receiver.. Should I put the height speakers midway between the front speakers and surround speaker but high on the walls angled down? Or do I place them on the wall above the TV, (either side of the TV) angled down at the listening position?
If my distance from head to ceiling speaker is 46" and not an exact 4ft, do I multiply .7x46" or go with 4ft?
So while my room is square 18x17x11; I have a somewhat unique ceiling. The ceiling is flat then goes to a slope on one side. The other side is partially flat then has a steep angle built into the corner. I have 3 pair of 8” speakers that I want to use for a 7.1.6 system but I’m stuck with the positions. Please help!!
If I want to place my 4 ceiling speakers at 45 degrees from my ears is it as simple as measuring vertical distance from ear to ceiling and matching the horizontal point to that measurement?
I have a 5.1.2 set-up and used your formula (thank you) to get my atmos 55 degrees from the MLP. Would this be considered Top Front or Top Middle? I was going to go 60 to 65 degrees but they would be too close to my surrounds and wanted to keep them separated.
If I have a 7.1.2 right now and my .2 are front heights on the front wall above my mains, and I wanted to go to a .4 configuration by adding additional either one ceiling or in ceiling speakers, where would I mount the additional pair? Would they go slightly behind the main seating position, above the main seating position, or in front of the main seating position?
My Arcam AVR30 has 7 built-in amps for the base layer. I have another Arcam four channel amp for my four Atmos speakers in my 7.1.4 system. I also have a spare Arcam 2 channel amp that I want to use to go to 7.1.6. The AVR has pre-outs for Middle Heights. It says in the manual "Top Fronts" and not 'Front Heights". Does this mean I should be putting the front two Atmos speakers on the front wall instead of the 45 degree angle on the side wall where they are now? Thank you for your help.
should they be angled toward the MLP or flat? I am sure mine don't have the dispersion pattern recommended.
Hello I already have 2 atmos speaker top middle on ceiling in line with L and R front about 60cm in front of the listening position which makes 71 degrees angle . I want to put front height speaker do they have to be right above the LR speaker? a little narrow space between them would made any harm?
I recently moved to a new home with 12’ cathedral ceilings. I already own Svs prime elevations , where would be the best placement for them, on the walls on the side where the ceiling starts (8’) and 8’ at the front above the mains or mounting to ceiling per Dolby Atmos specs ? If mounting on ceiling not sure with ceiling and angle of speakers how to aim towards MLP. If I mount above front mains and on sides of MLP as heights , I feel I’d cover more formats too (Atmos ,DTS-X, Auro ). If you could please advise on best position to mount elevations ….thank you
I've been told by experts (many times), that the best way to do Atmos, is by having in-ceiling speakers with a kind of back box, that seals the back of the speaker above the ceiling. I currently have two 'on-ceiling' speakers to test this theory out, (which is amazing!) before having four in-ceiling ones installed. I haven't yet seen a good reason for not doing that!
Define.... Expert. Are you asking speaker designers or dealers? An enclosure controls/tunes the bottom end of the response. If you're crossing to a sub above that point you're fine with no box. As we cross to subs, in ceilings can easily be placed infinite baffle and crossed to sub with no issues and are designed to be used this way. There is no benifit other than noise pollution to other rooms above the ceiling. Having an enclosure is not going to improve your atmos in this case.
Check out the episode on winisd as it's shown how a box controls the driver response and bottom end.
I have 7.1.4 with bookshelf speakers on brackets at about 40°hanging from the ceiling 5 feet out from the front wall.
No matter what I do they sound better and fuller as height speakers than top speakers. I know you're telling me in this video that they should be top speakers but when I do that the sound is much thinner and leaner than when they are set as height speakers.
Do top speakers get less information than height speakers? It seems like it.
so I use JBL Studio 130's as my front stereo pair. JBL Studio 120C centre speaker, JBL Control 1 pro's as front heights. Misson bipole surround speakers as surrounds. Should I then be using JBL Studio 130's as my front heights and surround speakers?
what is the best angle and distance for TML speakers on 5.1.2 setup, 65 or 100, i got mine about 79 -80 cm forward from MLP (65degrees ) i dont have complain but i dont know what might be the experience and sound at 100 degrees..what you think?
Hi!
What if I would make a 7.2.4 predisposition but I can start only with a 5.1.2 layout and I have no space to put the side surrounds at 110°?
Have I to put the 2 atmos in a different position than in a 7.2.4 layout?
Thank you very much!
Great video! What are your thoughts on top speaker placement for two rows of seating? Do you think 4 speakers can get the job done or is 6 necessary? Would the measurement point be the middle of both rows or still the MLP in the first row?
I want to know this too. I have a 19x14x7’ room going to a 5.1.4. Trying to find how the .4 should be placed.
I also want to know where the mlp should be how it effects 2 rows
Thank you for all of your hard work - I'm chewing your videos one-by-one.
I have 5.1 and will be installing a 5.1.4. My back is against the rear wall, so my rear surround speakers are not far behind my listening position.
I therefor plan to install a top middle, 90 degree (right above listening position) and front height, distance away x 1.73
I was a bit confused on how a top front 30 degree will be much closer to the listening position, than a front height 30 degree will be in my case.
You're welcome!
As for the top front and front height they do share the same space for most of their tolerances as the tolerances overlap.
@@hometheatergurus I have made a drawing, maybe you can verify my questions?
filebin.net/svfeg9okq44yynmv/dali_piano_hifi_setup.pdf?t=rbsbno2j
I dont understand the front height 30 degree calculation, it seems to be 20 degree in my head.
top front with 30 degrees is much closer than the front height.
@@hometheatergurus could you verify your calculation for top front, I think they are wrong. I see a 20 degree placement, and not the stated/recommended 30 degree. Thanks mate.
@@jangudiksen in the video I show you the actual dolby placement tolerances for all spots we discuss. The height tolerance is 30 to 45 degrees and it does overlap the tops tolerance.
Question. What program did you use to make that diagram? It's pretty slick.
Is there a program I can just plug in my room dimensions and it will give me seating and speaker placement recommendations for difference setups (5.2.4, 7.2.4 etc)? Likewise with seating vs. screen size.
Not that I know of at least not that accessible to the public. Ep 1 and 3 will walk you through all of that.
My processor has a setting with for 4 FH + RH or 4TF + TR not sure what the difference is?
I have a 7.2.4 setup with 4 total atmos speakers.
Hi, a question about atmos enabled speakers, I red somewhere: Just make sure you set the AV receiver to Atmos upfiring speakers, and a crossover point of 150Hz or higher if it gives you that option. It's best to limit low-frequency info going to those speakers to help reduce localization.
Whats your your upinion on de crossover setup? 'Till I get height speakers I have to go with the enabled ones.
Greetz from The Netherlands
As you get lower in frequency the frequencies become modal and can't be aimed and reflected back to you so even though they're aimed you'll hear lower frequencies from their actual position. That's why they tell you to cross them so high. With actual ceiling speakers we don't do that.
My room is small and I’m only 10’6” from the screen. My ceiling is 11’ high room is 13 deep and 10’6” wide. One of the back corners is angled so I’ll have to put my surrounds on the wall in front of me. Should I mount the atmos on poles down a few feet from the ceiling?
Also should I do top front or top middle?
Hello if my receiver is 5.1.2. where do i put the Atmos speakers.?
At a 45 angle or right above me?
I'm totally confused as to which calculations I should use for my room. My room is 12wide x 11 long. Tv is on the 12 ft wall. I have 7.2. I want to add 2 atmos speakers. I have no idea where to put them. My head is about 7' away from center channel. And about 5' away from ceiling. 8' ceilings. Can you help
So if I am understanding you correctly for a 7.x.4 setup. My center seat is 4'6" from the ceiling. So I think go 4' 6" forward and back for atmos and space them inline-ish with my LR speakers. Which I will probably bring them in more than that and i want the speakers pointing at me 45 degrees. Behind my seats the ceiling is not even so I would have my rear right atmos speaker close in towards the center than the left.
The width is limited by .7 x the width of the system which is basically the surrounds. So they'll likely be closer together than being in line with your mains. But other than that yep. However as seen in ep 6 you actually need more than 45 degrees to be on axis the mlp once you go 45 forward and back and then seperate them.
Would you always choose .4 over .2? If like me I'm against the back wall (30 cm apart). I would get 90 degress to my top mid, and 30 degrees to my top front. Would you go with .4?
Love your channel, great content!
Thanks! And absolutely I'd do a 5.1.4 in that situation.
@@hometheatergurus Thank heavens I chanced upon your brilliant video. I have a similar dilemma. Couch almost against the back wall, and your calculations are leading me to a Top Middle + Front Heights combo. Is this a common or acceptable arrangement?
In a 5.1.2 system, should the atmos speakers be right over the couch, or is it better to go with 55 degrees from the listening position towards the front and the sides?
What would I do if I cannot put my surround rear channels just above ear level? They will be in the ceiling with my front and rear atmos. 5.2.4
Very informative video! I'd like to see a comparison between the available options though. For example, if placing speakers in the ceiling is not an option, which is the best alternative? Using atmos up-firing speakers or down-firing from the walls? In the last case, are 2 front heights better that 2 side heights?
Thanks!
Some of that is subjective like which is better bounce vs direct although I've never heard one person come back from ceida or hear a properly setup ceiling setup and like bounce better. If I had no other option I'd use modules and reflective atmos but only if I had no other option.
As for side heights Dolby doesn't actually have a location for side heights. See episode 3 for placement options. Now I'm not saying you can't deviate from Dolby's placement options but it's always best to only make compromises if you have to. Episode 3 will actually help you decide what configuration to use based on the room.
Now if I couldn't use ceiling speakers I'd look at heights or even misplaced side wall before I'd do reflective.
@@hometheatergurus By episode 3, you mean this video :) I watched it!
@@Petrakeas haha. Yeah. I had another comment on 3.1 and got you guys mixed up. :)
@@hometheatergurus That was me as well ! Just found the channel and I'm watching the videos in a row!
@@Petrakeas ahh... So I'm not losing my mind.. :)
I own Onkyo up firing speakers. i installed then very near the ceiling in the middle of the room facing up, firing to the ceiling bouncing audio to the listener.i was highly criticized . but this way i have a very effective dolby atmos sound. Can you try and show that this is a correct way . As i hate people that criticize without trying .
I had a question as you were talking about the spread of sound from different types of speakers. I have 2 pairs of Definitive Technology GEMS that I wanted to use as ceiling Atmos (5.2.4). With their bi-polar layout I am not sure if I should mount horizontally or vertically? I also had the thought of replacing them with 4 Definitive Technology ProCenter 800 or 1000. Thoughts?
I would use direct firing if you can. If not position them so the opposing drivers shoot towards side walls.
@@hometheatergurus What about, as an option, using 2 center channel speakers for ceiling mounted Atmos heights? I think they would look better as they are designed to be mounted horizontal anyways? I run all Definitive Technology Mythos speakers now and could add (2) ProCenter 1000 to use as ceiling mount. What are your thoughts?
I will correct you regarding the in-ceiling speakers for Atmos - there are speakers that can be focused on that degree you need to have maximum effect - GoldenEar HTR-7000 - please check them out and give them a try. And I am talking from direct experience since we sell GoldenEar :)
Did you watch the entire episode? There are several and I do mention they are a good option but aren't cheap and a swivel tweeter alone won't cut it. I even have an episode where I recommend some that have 45 degrees of angle and Test the response off axis.
As for the Golden ear you mentioned from a quick search it looks to have 30 degrees of angle so it wouldn't be ideal and place the seats 20 degrees or so off axis if you used a 45 degree forward and back placement.
so are heights better then in ceiling for dolby atmos? My roof is already made 18 L 12.5 W and 8 Feet high and i sit about 8 Feet away from the center speaker with the tv directly above it. The left and right towers are 9 Feet from each other measured from the middle (hard to get 8 Feet but i could always move my MLP back one feet. I have a 65" Oled 4k LG C9. Any recommendations for heights i can use for atmos? i was looking at the Polk omw3 but those are on ceiling and no adjustability. Thanks
Owm3 are the most versatile speakers I've seen. Tons of mounting options. They also have 1/4" thread on the back for any speaker mount to work. You can use them almost anywhere. From my experience with a 2 atmos speaker setup, top middle is better than front high. Except in very small rooms or where you sit close enough to the front high that it's almost above you. If you have speakers above you, the vertical pan of sound feels more natural and you get the effect that dolby is marketing. With front high speakers, it's less noticeable. It creates a huge sound stage up front which is cool, but without speakers above you, that vertical pan just feels like it's got a gap.
I have been trying to justify four in ceiling speakers for a 5.1.4 setup, but my couch is against the back wall. 5.1.2 seems to be the way to go. I haven't seen too many diagrams that utilize a top middle channel, nor receivers that would allow for a top front with top middle but no top rear. Wouldn't it be better to use top rear and move the couch out as much as possible?
Don't waste your time and effort you are required to be seated in the middle of the 4 atmos speakers.
The required angles will force the rear atmos speakers on the wall with little to no seperation with the base layer speakers.
You'll understand why it's of extreme importance to sit at least 4 feet away in order to accomdate for 4 atmos speakers in the ceiling.
If you still going to refuse information without giving it a due care or to actually try to move 4 feet from walls. Do not and I repeat do not bother responding or pursuing this hobby any further.
Now then I'm here to help you. I hope you Don't take this the wrong way.
I'm going through your back catalog of videos after watching your video on subwoofer phase alignment. I noticed these initial speaker placement videos all assume a single couch. What do you do with two rows of seating?
You still have your sweet spot which you will measure from.
Either make the sweet spot in the row that you sit or split the middle and work with the same formula.
Can you do a 5.2.2 setup with Top Fronts instead of Top Middles?
Yes, but I wouldn't bother with Front High in a 5.2.2... go for top middle if you can.
Can you recommend a good smaller lighter height speaker? Have to hang from 8ft drop ceiling with some bracing. I have in ceiling and would like to switch. I run Arendal S line beds would like something close in tonal match. Thanks
The RSL 34E is hard to beat for the price.
I use the PSB Alpha P5 (the P3 works great too!) They are pretty light, play deep so you can easily cross them at 80hz and even have the screw insert on the back for easy mounting.
From my ceiling to the acoustic center of my speaker on bracket is 7 inches as opposed to your 1 foot. You multiplied the one foot X .7 to get to your modified degree's. How do I calculate the 7 inches?
Ahh, 7” x.7 haha.. sorry made me laugh. You’d take 7” off the dif between ceiling and ears. Then let’s say you have 4’5” left. It’s close enough to 4.5 ft.. so 4.5 x .7
PLEASE HELP. 😩 My room is a rectangular shape (dedicated room) 12x17 but my theater seats (4 seats) are against back wall, not touching wall but only 1 foot away from wall. I would LOVE to put 4 atmos in- ceiling speakers but don’t have room to put 2 atmos speakers behind me. Is it ok to place them directly above me and 2 more in front of me?
Thank You in advance
Any reason they can't be moved up? To get the mains at the proper width in that size room you'll need to sit around 10 from them.
If you can't and just wanna get atmos right, I'd do top middle and top front. Many avrs won't allow top middle and top front so do top middle and front height. Just make sure the avr positions are properly labeled so object placement is correct.
Home Theater Gurus
Thank you for the reply. When you say top middle, do you mean a single in ceiling right above MLP?
Also, please answer this question too as I just thought of it. How far away do in ceiling speakers need to be from side walls? (If i were to do proper 4 atmos speakers)
Thank you brother
@@ourlittlecakery9177 top middle are the two above the seating area. Episode 3 will help you place them. As for the 2nd question It will also explain how far apart to spread them.
I am very confused (the commercials breaking in dont help). Ok, for my Atmos for an 18 foot long room and a 9.1.6 system I should put the Atmos speakers front about 3 feet from the screen, the middle speaker over my head, and the rear 5 feet behind the MLP?
Hey Robert. This is an older video. See the newer videos on Atmos especially ep 49.
Great placement video. I'm going to review my placement but I think it is pretty close.
Question- should I hang my Klipsch RP140SA from the ceiling? I have a dedicated Media Room 22 wide 19 long, 9 ft flat ceiling. A Marantz 8012, all Klipsch in a 7.2.4, at this time I have the atmos 140's on top of the front and surround channels. My though is I could get better atmos performance by hanging them from the ceiling pointing at equal distance to the king listening position.
Your thoughts?
Atmos modules usually have the frequency response tweaked so I'm not sure how they'd perform mounted on the ceiling. They also have different dispersion goals. That said if you can get them mounted and angled and toed so they're on axis they may perform quite well.
If I have a 5.x.2 setup (top middle Atmos speakers), can I add rear heights? Or is front heights recommended?
Whatever fits the room best. If the top middle is slightly forward of 90 degrees which is common with 5.1.2 I'd do rear heights. That would help fill in the lack of rears in the bed layer too. I'd try to keep them around 30 degrees in height though, in other words toward the lower side of the recommendation as you don't have rears.
@@hometheatergurus I think rear heights would work best. Would this now be considered 5.x.4 or 7.x.2?
@@2Timothy2.15 5.1.4.
Sure it'll work great. Between it and a 7.1.2 it's a toss up to which is better. Sometimes rooms are open in the back and in a setup like that I'd rather rear heights in a 5.1.4 with rear heights to a 5.1.4 with top front and top rear.
Definitive technology makes these really neat looking bipolar surround speakers that I’ve been thinking about purchasing, but watching your videos has made me doubt everything about them. If I did purchase them, I’d have no idea where to place them anymore considering what you’ve said About the angle placement since these speakers are pyramid shaped. Where would you recommend speakers like these to be placed?
Bipoles are fine and approved by Dolby for the bed layer surrounds and rears. Dipoles aren't as their drivers are out of phase. But anyways placement is the same as direct. You want to sit on axis which places you right between the lobes of the two outer facing drivers.
Home Theater Gurus thanks for your swift response!
@@henryalcocer5127 you're welcome!
How the heck do you secure bookshelf speakers to the ceiling? Do you simply purchase a speaker weight appropriate bracket and drill screws into the speaker cabinet? How do you handle issues like a curved back of a speaker for example? Seems a little tough to do.
Look for bookshelves with threaded inserts. Triad is one such brand. If you don't have that yeah it can be difficult and could void the warranty depending on the method you choose.
Speakers with threaded inserts are the easiest. I love my PSB Alpha P5 (P3 has them too). May try also outdoor speakers. Plenty of options like that
Hello friend to calculate 30/35° do you multiply by .7 or by 0.7? Do you measure the distance from your head to the ceiling and multiply by 0.7?
Greetings guru
Hey Antonio. You can use either as mathematically it's the same. See the newer video on atmos as this one is old. ua-cam.com/video/s4A_frIGG7k/v-deo.html
Did you skip over 5.2.4 I have everything set but where do my rears go do they go to the side do they go to the back.
That's in ep 1.
Really having a problem finding speakers with threaded inserts that I can mount hanging from the ceiling for a 5.1.4 system. I like the flexibility to "aim" this style setup. In ceiling is not an option. there are a variety of surface mount (outdoor application, not sure of quality of sound having never heard them except in commercial applications where they are usually cranked and sound bad. Looking in the $600 per pair range. Plenty of choices in this price range, the problem is finding threaded inserts for a strong connection. Don't like the idea of drilling into speakers. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you for your time and effort in producing these videos.
Shoot me an email at
Elitehomecinema.sales@gmail.com
Here’s what’s confusing re ceiling placement. Just considering the top fronts placement, Dolby’s side view establishes the distance X from the MLP’s head to the ceiling and that same distance X is used for the forward distance given the 45º angle rule. Fine. So then you look at the Dolby top view and see that first speaker at X distance directly forward of the MLP has become the left and right top fronts and they have a distance between them with a suggestion being .5 to .7x the room width. They are now forward of and flanking the MLP. How far forward are they now? What happened to the 45º rule? Obviously that first side-view speaker location wasn’t used b/c it would’ve been dead ahead of the MLP. However, that first 45º “speaker” split into two and then slid left and right to new locations. Are the original 45º and X distance rules still in-force? Nowhere have I seen this clarified.
So front height can be done. Beats overhead because I cannot do overheads. Gonna have to be on the front "wall" though. "Wall" because I use Atmos/DTS for fun at my pc desk, adding speakers on the poles (probably taller ones) I use for the front L/R is grand.
Hey James, Yes front Height can be done but realize the video here is quite old and this is a video geared to placement options. See the newer atmos videos which are more "performance" based and will help ensure you hear what the mixer intended.
Have you tried front height and rear height versus top front and top rear height? Which would your preference be? Is the difference big?
Its all based on placement. So it really depends on how the speakers can be laid out. If they're forced lower toward the bed layer end of the tolerances I'll use heights.
So are you saying that if I'm only setting up a 5.1.2 system, I should set my atmos as top middle? I recently watched another video of yours and I understood that the atmos should be top front if only have two speakers. I have a very small room and don't have room for four speakers in the ceiling.
You can do either. With top middle it opens up the option for front height.
@@hometheatergurus I have set it up as top front with focal Domes. Sounds pretty good but a little underwhelming as I was expecting the alien in A Quiet Place Part 2 to sound like it’s crawling on top of me, as described it should sound like by others. Also the Dolby Atmos demo on Xbox doesn’t really sound like the plane is on top of me. I need to do some more tweaking, me thinks. Getting more speakers isn’t really an option as the wife would lose her mind as I take over our living room with more speakers.
@@mustangfred2006 did you find the best placement and what was it?
At my house i would love to do a 5.2 atmos system, but i have no way to mount my rear surrounds at the same height as the front. Would an angled adjustable ceiling speaker work. Please help
I assume you mean a 5.1.2. With a 5 channel bed layer there are no rear surrounds only surrounds. Rear surrounds are added in a 7 channel bed layer. Surrounds should be directly to the sides of the seating area but can be slightly back 10 to 20 degrees. See episode 1 for layout of the bed layer. Now if those too must be higher than recommend you can still do it but I'd keep them as low as possible and understand you're losing seperation between the bed layer and tops which will degrade the over all sound. But that doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable.
Thank you sir.
I’ll probably stick with a surround sound, since the only option i have are ceiling speakers for the surrounds. The front and the center speaker i can do in wall. But since the atmos and surround would be in ceiling i’m not sure the atmos investment would be worth it in my situation.
@@leeabin1280 no it wouldn't be worth it. Save the money. Sometimes you just can't make it work especially in open floor plans.
Yes that is the issue with open concept homes.
You’re a god. Unfortunately, per the wifey, I have to use in wall speakers for the whole thing. Ugh. At least I have a reference to aim for, the best I can.
Haha.. I don't know about that but thanks.
And yeah sometimes we have to do what we have to do and live with compromises. Especially when it keeps the peace in the house!
Hi, my ceiling height is just over 7 feet…. Can i still fit atmos ceiling speakers?
Yes, there's a video on atmos with low ceilings.
Why is the calculation different from 5.1.4 vs 7.1.4?. I have a 5.1.4 and cant install rear heights 6.9' behind me doing the math. 7.1.4 method as far as mounting on ceiling would work great. I just don't understand the dramatic difference between the 2 just because im only using side surrounds in my 5.1.4. I have my Polk OMW'3 currently mounted on the front wall and rear wall which is 6' behind MLP and have the option of mounting on the ceiling .
You don't have to use rear heights. It's just a location option that is a good idea when you don't have rears because they can be installed between where top rear and rears would be to help pull objects behind you some.
Choose what fits your space best.
I laughed way too hard at the :20 mark!
I can only do 7.1 or 5.1.2. I tried 7.1 and found it wasn't a big upgrade from 5.1. So I'd like to go 5.1.2 instead. I'm assuming the "Top Middle Overhead" speakers are best? I already have some 30 degree angled ceiling speakers to use. I have 9ft ceilings so I'm figuring about an 83 degree angle which would place the speakers .75 feet in front of my MLP?
Personally I'd recommend just going straight to a 4 atmos speaker setup instead. I did the whole 5.1.2 and I thought it was neat but kept hearing how I was missing another half of the whole atmos experience by only doing 2. Needless to say later on I ended up getting the other two for a 5.2.4 setup. I actually bought 4 new speakers at that and ended up needing a new receiver (the newer model of what I previously had) obviously.
Thr sound was really different, it felt more complete and the whole sound environment really envelopes you further. Having only the 2 atmos speakers is like having the sound bubble open while 4 feels as though it completes that bubble.
Anyway, if you're doing only the 5.1.2, you would need to place the speakers ahead of your rather than in the middle or behind you.
@@thelonestranger777 Thanks for the reply. I can't really justify buying a whole new AVR/Processor just to make it .4 instead of .2.
However, do you think going from 5.1 to 5.1.2 is a worthwhile upgrade? I already own the ceiling speakers.
@@menash41 well if you already own the speakers I don't see why not. It does add a little something to the sound. It's just not as filling as having the .4 is all.
If you're going to install them, then at least install them with the notion that you'll upgrade later down the line. As in be mindful where you place them. That way, you won't have to do much work the next time you change your configuration.
thelonestranger777 so do recommend I place them in the front position rather than the middle?
@@menash41 Yes, that would be my recommendation. See what other people say though. Can't go solely off one person after all. Welcome to atmos man
Still confused. If doing. A 7.1.4 system not using ceiling speakers but wall speakers mounted right where the ceiling meets. Can I use the ear to baffle X .7 measurement ?
Hey Dave, this is an old video. See the new Atmos videos. Just click videos on the channel page and you'll see them in order. One even has an overhead diagram with suggested placement and a quick formula.
@@hometheatergurus your the best. Love your videos.
@@davegibbon6082 thanks Dave!
Can I email you and you tell me how my setup is right or wrong by showing you pictures? I want to add rear height but not sure if my placement will be wrong I’m just going with what’s ergonomic
Hey Rahz, See the description for my email info. I do offer consulting over zoom.
9.4.2 setup?
Isn’t Atmos object based? So as long as you are in the general area you will be alright?
Yes it's object based but that in no way has anything to do with speaker placement. Speaker placement has to be right or the object placement isn't correct and you may cause audible drop outs in panning. If for some reason you can't get proper placement do the best you can but for optimal performance placement is
important. The Video is based on Dolby guidelines and recommendations so nothing in the video is personal opinion based but straight from Dolby.
Put it this way. Anytime someone isn't blown away by atmos or doesn't think it's a big upgrade you can bet there are placement and or other issues like being off axis or seperation between the bed layer and tops were ignored etc.
@@hometheatergurus Here’s what’s confusing re ceiling placement. The side view establishes the distance X from the MLP’s head to the ceiling and that same distance X is used for the how far forward distance given the 45º angle rule. So then you move to the top view and see only a center line, the MLP and that one speaker X distance directly forward of the MLP. Then a side-to-side line is drawn through the one centered speaker at X and then it becomes two speakers that slide left and right of the center line to some equi-distance between them, say 0.5-0.7x room width. A that point the original 45º MLP/ceiling angle rule is blown and the corresponding distance X is also blown.
So when the original single centered speaker top view becomes two speakers slid to the left and right shouldn’t they be sliding along an arc with a radius of X thus preserving the 45º rule vs. along the side-to-side straight line which violates both rules? What am I missing..?
I’m adding top front ceiling speakers for Atmos at the 45 degree position. My mains are 8 ft apart. So I’m planning on placing the top front ceiling speakers 6 ft apart. Does this make sense?
Make sure you watch the video all the way through. The width isn't based on the mains as most are led to believe. If you stayed in line with the mains a room with a 7 foot ceiling compared to one with a 12' ceiling would have them placed at vastly different degrees apart. It's covered in the video.
Home Theater Gurus
Thanks. I know. I’ve watched the video about 57 times. lol. I’m just trying to confirm my measurements before I make holes in my ceiling.
My side surrounds are quite wide and are not equidistant. So I can’t really go off of the bed layer. I watched Anthony Grimani’s video and he puts them narrower like you. I just wanted to know how much.
My mains are 8ft apart equidistant. My side surrounds are 22 feet apart but not equidistant.
@@menash41 lol... So you're the guy watching my video.. 😂
So in that case.. How tall is the ceiling and how wide is the seating area?
Home Theater Gurus
Lol that’s me. Ceiling is 9ft. Couch seating is about 7 feet wide.
Why would in ceiling speakers not be good for Atmos?
They're not all bad. I cover here with an audible demonstration.
ua-cam.com/video/oXsmmRMcWLk/v-deo.html
From personal experience, I wouldn't bother with Front High position speakers. Unless you have a 10' ceiling or higher, I don't think there's enough separation from the LCR to add much experience to movies. In a smaller room, with Front High AND Rear High, it can sound pretty good. I think, if possible, you should always try to get speakers in Top Front, Top Middle or Top Rear positions as this gives more separation from LCR and makes the overhead pan of sound feel more natural and balanced. And if you're going to bother with atmos/dts-x setups, go for 4 height speakers, in any arrangement OR 2 height speakers in Top Middle (directly overhead vertically). Everything less is kinda gimmicky for the money it costs. My $0.02
The angles overlap with top front so you can have up to 45 degrees which is the sweat spot for top front. The separation would be exactly the same. We explain you'd use this when you can't fit rear anything so if you wanted 4 atmos many AVRs will not allow top center and top front. It doesn't mean there's any less separation from the bed layer.
@@hometheatergurus I get that. I'm just saying I've tried it and I don't think it's worth the effort and money. It doesn't add anything to the experience of movies (unless it's a very small room). I think anywhere in/on the ceiling, and within the Top positions, sounds better than High positions. For example, if you've got a 5.2 or 7.2 system, adding 2 atmos speakers to Front High isn't worth it. If you can't put speakers in/on the ceiling directly above you (Top Middle) I don't think Atmos is worth it. Obviously 4 atmos channels is better than 2. In any arrangement.
I find your videos valuable so much so that I am making changes to my HT based on your videos. Currently working on making changes to my atmos speaker locations but you lost me during the last part of your video. In the beginning you talk about the distance to ceiling from seated head position of 6 feet that was reduced to 5 feet due to hinged speaker baffle distance & then further reduced due to the 90 degree span between front & back atmos speakers to 55 degrees. So you ended up with a distance of 3.5 feet. So I get all that but in the last part of the video where you are trying to determine how wide the atmos speakers need to be you are starting back at the 5 feet distance. I was hoping you would have continued from the 3.5 feet already arrived at in the earlier part of the video. Did I miss something?
Was thinking the same
I was thinking the same. He lost me in the end.
Another question that I have been having a hard time getting answered, with dedicated subs, is it worth getting high quality bookshelf speakers for front left and right over tower speakers? Or are tower speakers a better option all around? Space is not an issue therefore I’m looking to get the best sound quality. What is your opinion?
This will be a future episode but towers have compromises. Often the woofers handle more than half of the vocals and sometimes they're blocked by reclining feet and shouldn't be used for surrounds and rears either because of this. Some argue they can cross lower with towers but then I refer you to exhibit A.... Episode 7! If the subs are setup right they'll always sound better crossed as high as you can before they're localized.
To put it simply if I had x amount of dollars to spend on mains I'd get better bookshelves vs the same money into a tower.
Now for living rooms sometimes one may want a tower for aesthetics and thats perfectly fine but I'd just make sure no drivers handling vocals are blocked. You want a crossover point below 1k to the woofers if possible.
I better stop writing as I'm giving away episodes.. :)
Understood! Heading on to episode 7!
You want speakers to point at a 35 degree angle to listener except for center channel
Which way to the gun show?
Can someone help me if I understood this correct? So basically measure the distance from the your head to the ceiling. For example say it's 10ft, then mark 10ft forward and that gives 45 degree angle. Next is to find out how far apart the ceiling speakers need to be. For that calculate 0.7 times the width of the surround speakers. the resulting value is how far maximum the distance between two ceiling speakers can be. Hope it's right!
Here are the steps and calculations that I took to place top middle speakers correctly on the ceiling.
1. Subtract the degree of the angle from 90 degrees. For instance, 90-65=25 degrees.
2. Enter 25 on the calculator and press the tan button on the iPhone calculator and you get 0.4663 as a decimal. 25tan=0.4663.
3. Multiply 6 feet by 0.4663 and you get a rounded 2.8 feet. 6x0.4663=2.8 feet rounded up. 6 feet is the distance from your head to the ceiling.
As a result, place your top middle speakers 2.8 feet on the ceiling in front of your main listening position. In other words, the speakers should be placed above your knees when sitting.
Correct, to find the 45 degree point it's the distance from the ears to the ceiling forward although I now advise you go a tad closer and stay around 35-40 forward. For width do not use the .7 rule, go about 35 degree each way. See the newer Dolby Atmos mistakes video.