This is wonderful. Between learning craftworlds and playing Tau, I've gotten really good at losing and looking for all the positives I can get. I always look for the moral victories and look to improve weaknesses.
On setting achievable goals: In games I was 100% sure I was going to lose, doing this actually helped me find Bagger Vance-style paths to victory or a fighting chance. Playing my somewhat silly Tempestus list against Chaos Knights, and got to a point where I figured I was probably screwed and decided, hey, I'm gonna try this charge. It's possible, the sargeant's got a power sword, why not? Two wounds later and that Armiger/War Dog is dead, the tide has turned, and had I not been willing to try something bold I would have lost guaranteed. Obviously that doesn't always happen, and rarely does, but there's a weird freedom in knowing you are probably boned from the get go. Viewed the right way, instead of despair it can be a chance to see just what some of your units can do in situations you wouldn't dare put them in usually.
I loved to play only to play, it was a night of escape for me. I haven’t played since 5ed and that was blood angels, I only played janky lists. And now I’m thinking about getting back in playing elder and I am very grateful to have found your channel and to get in a mindset because my local group is more geared towards competitive play.
There's a third possibility to when you lose: it just wasn't your night. I had those, nights were i literally couldn't roll a 2+ to save my life, other nights i rolled 5 6s on a 6+ save, it happens.
I'm a very casual player and found your points very entertaining and enlightening. It made me reconsider the reasons why I lost my last game (which was against my cousin against whom I have never won yet).
The last time I played in a tournament (Tau had come out the previous year-ish, which makes me feel as though I am dust) one of my takeaways, for those who might hesitate to ask the person that just destroyed you for advice, is that most players that are there to play competitively are there for the challenge. Helping other players improve means that the next tourney will be more fun for them. From my own experience in other competitive tabletop gaming is that it’s not particularly fun to roll over everyone in the room (those people do exist, but are definitely a minority). It’s in the competitive players’ best interest to help their local play group get better! Plus, if you lost at speed, use that time to ask questions! I’ve even had opponents at smaller and more casual tournaments offer to play another game for practice if the first one was really short (assuming the organizers don’t care). Also “Forged in the fires of lost causes” has got to be one of the most 40k phrases I’ve ever heard. 😂
I absolutely love videos like this. Strangely, I sometimes have this problem playing Magic the Gathering, but not at all in Warhammer. It frustrates me though that the people who need this advice the most really don't want to hear it most of the time.
There is this tournament player I know and I would play him just so he could keep practice. I don't play tournys, I knew he would beat me but he is such a cool person, I just wanted to hang out and watch a great player. I set goals for myself, survive till turn 3 or kill that one unit or outscore him on at least one turn. Some of these I did, some I didn't. I played much better against other people after a few weeks of that.
Mate I watched most of your videos, you're without a doubt the best channel on 40k strategy, even though I don't share your optimism when discussing a few CWE strategies. Being someone who does play to win, yet being in a place in which I only play CWE and solely go against way better players than me with newer codices (lately SM, Sororitas, Drukhari and TS) I'm feeling this video lol. I did become a way better player for it though, and learned to plan in unexpected things in order to get some points out, which is somewhat nice in a situation in which I'm probably 1-9 in the last 10 games. And I resorted to shining spears and walkers...heavily.
Woah, thank you- that is a serious compliment. And I do hear you on the CWE optimism- it drives me nuts too when I listen to a podcaster discuss some unit or strategy with glowing confidence that has not worked at all in my own games.
I’m just getting back in (as I’ve mentioned before), but I used to win tournaments as a teenager. And you’re dead on here, lots of play, lots of asking questions, no excuses.
Thanks for the video! Interestingly I find it much harder to enjoy losing when playing my Craftworlders than when playing with my Imperial Guard! I guess with the guard life is cheap, whereas with the Eldar it's the opposite!
In 2020 when I started playing 40k, i had regular matches with a friend. I was playing craftworlds and he played black templars. Out of more than 10 games I never won, my best result was a draw, once. And to this day the number of victories I scored with my CWE are so few that stay on one hand. So apparently i can't play my main faction, I started drukhari and it is exactly the opposite situation. Despite many errors, with drukhari I can still pull a win. Knowing this, when I have a game planned if i want to win I don't play CWE, while if i want to try a new CWE strategy I expect to lose.
12 minutes in CE talks about the guy that won't answer questions fearing a leg up next time. I totally know a guy like that. He will never answer questions, stares intently at EVERY move you make, even when checking range before movement. He is so hard to deal with because I have asked the same questions CE brought up: what would you have done in my position or what were you afraid I'd do? EVERY single time he just shakes his head, winces, and says, "I..... I don't know". One time I asked, 'hey this unit messes me up, how does that thing work that your doing?' Stares right into my soul as if I asked a spirit it's true name, whines, shakes his head and looks away, "I.... I don't know". He asks if I want to play, I flat out tell him I do not enjoying playing with him. He rarely gets games these days. Kind of sad but this dude hits the table with straight murderous intent in his eyes and will laugh right in your face when you admit you made a mistake or you decide to concede. He thinks he's being friendly but I have watched him play other people and that body language is really weird when you see it from another angle.
"Stares right into my soul as if I asked a spirit it's true name, whines, shakes his head and looks away, "I.... I don't know". " !!!! I quite literally laughed out loud at this.
This was amazing. I’m not even a 40k player (I play AoS), but if I were on Warhammer Weekly the week this came out, it would def be my Pick of the Week
i would say when it comes to competitive plays you can always do is make a small goal while still being competitive like "im gonna have my lynchguards hold this dreaddnout as long as possible till i get the rest of my heavy hitters in or take objective". just make a mini game out of it
I would LOVE to see some videos on how to prevent getting salty/being a bad sport/or getting tilted. These are things I struggle with against my friends and I hate getting grumpy and potentially ruining both of our games. :(
I totally became a passive aggressive b@tch one game. I was literally angry at this dude for saying he was going to bring one faction and then bringing a completely different faction. I wasn't trying to meta-game him but i was trying to make sure I stood a chance against him, you keeping it fun and challenging for both of us. Well as soon as I saw the models, I knew I was boned. During his turn, top of 1, I literally started reading a comic book. He said, make 5 saves, neg 1. I grabbed 5 dice, dropped them on the table and didn't even look. That continued for a bit, then I looked at all the failed saves and removed models. He passed to my turn and I was across the room watching another game. He called out to me, 'your turn'. Looked at the table, looked at him, "I quit.", and I went outside for a smoke. That dude was so angry. I caught some heat from other players for that stunt, even the store owner was like, WTF, bro? True story, I regret nothing.
I say always try to win, because A) it's good experience and B) it's a dice game and crazy things happen. You could get some clutch rolls and pull off the upset! But you have to have realistic expectations and be able to handle a loss when it happens. Even the best armies lose something like 4 out of 10 games, so it's going to happen.
I know this guy he was new. He played various people and this one guy in particular had no sense of sportsmanlike conduct and kind of talked sh@t during the game. I felt bad for this dude and we started playing every week. It was fun for me, because I didn't have to take the game serious, I got to try out different units and techniques but I did wreck him every time until this one game. He beat me. We played again. He beat me. I told him take this list, change nothing, go find that guy and smash him. I saw my new friend the next week and his revenge was complete, he had won, and taken down the rude player.
I believe that one should not play games if one doesn't know how to lose with dignity. One thing I don't agree with is that "you can beat any army with your faction". Some people are just copying tournament winning lists while being good players, and if your codex is not at least A tier, you don't stand a chance, even if you are a brilliant commander, unless your opponent makes huge mistakes (which he won't, because he's a good player, so he will have a few slip ups here and there, but nothing huge to break even). That's why when I use a strong army (I have 3) and I know I will be playing against a weaker codex, I will just play something decent/strong, but leave THE cheese on the shelf. Unless he's a power gamer (which I don't shame IF they don't bully new players, I like the challenge, when we both have very strong lists), then I go all out, and it's usually a bloody good battle. The only time I'd hate losing is when it's against someone socially inept. When he's laughing/boasting/ridiculing your actions OR fucking cheaters. I've been fortunate enough to lose to people with manners, we'd just laugh at bad dice luck, maybe discuss what went wrong in the battle and move on to have another fun game. After years of playing, if I know the person, we usually exchange our lists before the battle (on the internet, before we even meet) and ask if that list is ok, and if they want to go balls to the walls with strong combos, or just chill with more silly units they never use, but love the models.
Noooooo... Do you have lots of disposable meat shields to screen your armoured brutality? Are you hiding everything out of line of sight in deployment? It will get better! And your codex must be coming very soon.
@@WBConcilio it’s all good. We played a small 25PL game, battlefield was small and not much cover. Im still learning, I was playing a friend and we had fun. But I just didn’t have the fire power. It was brutal. 😁
I was wondering as a relatively new Craftworlds player of 1 year I was wonder would it be a good idea to tape your battles to watch later and find mistakes as long as your opponent is okay with it?
Wow. Huh. I have never heard of anyone doing that, but it certainly works in the world of sport. If you have the dedication to sit through watching your own game again it might be helpful, especially if you have it on while painting. My only hesitation about this is that if you have three hours free to work on improving your Warhammer game, the time would probably be better spent playing another game if you can schedule one.
A much simpler (and way more efficient ) idea is to just take a few pictures of the board throughout the game. You wouldn't need many (and you can take them on your opponents turn when you're not doing much so it wouldn't slow the game down much, unlike filming), just enough to remind you of how the game actually went. That should be enough to assess the game and what mistakes you might have made with hindsight. A lot of 40k game time is just moving minis and rolling dice (which you don't need to review later on) so recording and then re-watching the whole thing is probably a lot of wasted time and effort.
They do well for me too- even in tournament play I expect to win the majority of my games. This is not a generalization about the faction- it's advice about a narrow subset of circumstances that can apply to players running a variety of different armies.
I started the hobby in March of 2021 with Tau, so naturally I don't care about losing. I just wanna roll tons of dice and make pew pew noises. I also don't have that weird uncle that talks about conspiracy theories, so maybe that's part of it?
i ok with winning, but id rather have fun... if the other player isnt having fun then i cant...... i will only too happily throw a game so we a having a screaming good time...... narrative is the best in my books
I am excited to see the post-codex Hemlock! But as things stand, it just doesn't have the fire output or durability in my opinion to make it optimal in competitive play, even with the points reduction. I love it for casual games though, especially with the Mind War combo
@@WBConcilio Agreed, plus whenever I have to run a hefty points sink model I can't help but compare it to the Yncarne. Especially if the leaks to him are true I would rather just make room for him than a hemlock. But I have to say it does look pretty slick.
nothing personal , if you go to a GT or large tournament and didn't get at least a 2W-3L ratio I would say 4 possibilities : 1) the dice gods hated you , and this does happen 2) your list isn't an all comers list and a skewed list , skewed list usually get stomped on 3) you don't know how to play your list , the most common 4) you don't know how to play the game tactics wise Have you notice 3 of the 4 are "you" Sadly you have to put in the effort to become "good". Top players just don't show up and it's handed to them look at Imperial Guard players : 8th edition rules , BS 4 the normal and no GT wins . Yet competitive BUT GW shoehorning that all IG will be Cadians ( endless troops from an exploded plant from 13th black crusade ) I guess it's hard to sell 30 year old models that looked like US/ NATO troops from 1980's . look at Knights players : 8th edition rules , BS 3 that changes to BS 4 fast or lower fast , 1 GT win with Forge world chassis look at Tau ? they only want to play gun lines and say kroot are useless ( but kroot basically IG guardsmen that can jump ) Tau players are lost on basic tactics ( screen out ) look at Craft-worlds have 1 GT win but used Harlequin Patrol ( I guess it's hard to sell 35 year old models ) Tau and Eldar both getting new ( 9th edition rules ) and will have lots of Reaver Class Titan level weapons 6 +d3 ( Tau every unit it seems will ) by GW leaks Safe bet things will not change much for them unless they change style of play
I mean, I agree with you. Saying that there is very occasionally a very particular match up that it might not be possible to win- or even a particular list piloted by an expert that a player cannot beat with the second oldest codex in the game is not the same as saying anyone should expect to lost most of their games. I am only addressing a narrow subset of matches here.
@@WBConcilio I had trouble playing against with dark eldar and orc buggie spam . The 1st 2 games against them I was almost tabled , Them 90+ and me in the 30- in victory points I learned quick by taking on the chin and learning . I had to play different . My tactics sucked VS them . Now a 60ish points game each side and a coin toss on who wins Necron points drop ? their going to be a beast I totally agree with what you said , smile , ask questions and LEARN . Also take an experienced player to watch game , it helps a lot to talk afterwards . The best way to win is to prevent them from scoring primaries rather than you focusing on scoring , Secondaries ? almost impossible to stop a OP army . Will you win over all in a tournament ? nope but you can get the 4W- 1 L and prevent the Meta chaser from taking over all in a tournament ? Yes and that feeling is priceless
If this is true; explain this? It was WHFB but the same principles apply. Over a decade ago I played in a GW 40k tournament (my first). I turned up with a ‘good’ all comers list and ended up on the amoeba tables. I was incensed by the ridiculous spam armies I was facing so I went away and designed a ridiculous spam list myself. This took a couple of days of thinking to do and I played that army list about 6 times to get used to it. Around 4 months later I went to my second ever GW tournament. This time I ended up on the top table and came near the top by the end. There is some skill, admittedly, but in my view, 75% of this game is about army selection. I reflected on the day and realised I didn’t even enjoy the day. Playing with such a cheesy force felt so wrong. Needless to say, I’ve never been to a tournament since.
I play xenos and eventually expand to chaos. I have way more fun playing the villain than I do the hero. Space Marines players need armies like mine to get their dopamine god complex hit 😂. Xenos and chaos are what gives 40k life. Ever watch a SM vs SM battle report? They are more boring than watching paint dry.
As a pure Craftworlds player I really do not understand how anyone can go into any match up thinking they are an auto-lose... I have yet to have any game that I thought that and I have been attending a lot of tournaments in the last 6 months... Including 2 Super Majors where I went 4-1 (and would have went 5-0 at the LGT if I had not been fatigued out of my mind against one of the best players in the world... he was shocked how good my list was... and that was with me misplaying it. I am not even that amazingly good, so I really disagree that Craftworlds are underpowered. That same tournament I beat an Ork Buggies list (18 buggies. Scrapjets and sqigbuggies) 100-15 when everyone was saying they were unbeatable and that player's only other loss was vs an Admech player that finished top 8 (out of 600)... he got 5 points on Primary and 10 points for Battle Ready. The only factions I struggle against are Drukhari as they are massively overpowered and undercosted (still) but even then I still manage to win a reasonable amount. And in response to another of your videos... Banshees are fantastic and great for any number of match ups and uses... I never go anywhere without them. I don't even own a Shining Spear.
They are available from Bcp I also have a friend who also went 4-1 with pure craftworlds at a major that also went 4-1. Different list than mine. And at the coventry super in November 2021 an asuryani player (Chris Power) went 6-2 with another substantially different list.
Hey! I'm glad to hear that you are doing well with Craftworlds and having such a positive experience playing them competitively. And I agree that Craftworlds played well are better than most people think- I too win more than I lose and sometimes find new opponents are surprised at how effective CWE can be. Nevertheless, I think there must be a reason that no pure Craftworlds list has won and open in 9th edition, and they have only very rarely been on the podium even at a GT. Here is some telling data about their competitive win-rate just a couple of weeks ago: d1w82usnq70pt2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Faction_Glicko_12-29-2021.png Here is the article that contextualizes that data: www.goonhammer.com/the-2021-warhammer-40k-end-of-year-tier-list/ Craftworlds have done extremely poorly in major tournaments overall. If you are kicking ass at Super Majors with pure Craftworlds lists such that you do not feel they are underpowered compared to top tier factions, you could probably reasonably hope to win LVO once they have a codex, so that's pretty impressive.
@@WBConcilio Data is one thing (my job actually) but it never tells the whole story on a 1 or 2 dimensional grid. The reason it is not doing as well statistically is because almost everyone (including yourself) is saying Craftworlds is not competitive and so noone of a competitive mindset takes them to tournaments except die hards like me. I am not the only one making this point as we have also seen Brad Chester do it recently against a Thicc city heavy tournament with a throw together list. I have seen Stephen Box do it with what I consider very weak asuryani lists. My friend Tony Sutton pulled a 4-1 at the warfare40k 2021 right behind me and Colin Power did 6-2 (1 of the 2 was against the Ork freebooterz with 5 flyers). The other reason is because playing craftworlds is mentally fatiguing and takes a long time to play as it requires a lot of time in most phases of the game (movement, psychic, shooting and combat primarily) so clocking out can be an issue. The only solution I found to this is take (pretty much) the same list everytime and play it over snd over against different lists till you can do it in your sleep. This will speed up your play and reduce mental fatigue. Sure, playing Craftworlds is much tougher than Drukhari but not so much so that it can’t win. As to how I will do when the new codex comes out… who knows as every other META chaser will probably jumping on that bandwagon and a lot of them are better players than me. I set out to get to the No.1 on the ITC Rankings before the new codex came out… and I have… but to be fair I have not had much competition because everyone believes Craftworlds are not competitive…
This is wonderful. Between learning craftworlds and playing Tau, I've gotten really good at losing and looking for all the positives I can get. I always look for the moral victories and look to improve weaknesses.
Tau and Eldar players represent
Iron warriors here can relate
@@lazerbolt5277 literally my 2/3rds of my factions.... getting new rules and most likely becoming OP. Love the new rules, don't like being OP
Bold of you to imagine I need someone to teach me how to lose, I do it perfectly on my own
Hahaha- fair enough.
On setting achievable goals: In games I was 100% sure I was going to lose, doing this actually helped me find Bagger Vance-style paths to victory or a fighting chance. Playing my somewhat silly Tempestus list against Chaos Knights, and got to a point where I figured I was probably screwed and decided, hey, I'm gonna try this charge. It's possible, the sargeant's got a power sword, why not? Two wounds later and that Armiger/War Dog is dead, the tide has turned, and had I not been willing to try something bold I would have lost guaranteed. Obviously that doesn't always happen, and rarely does, but there's a weird freedom in knowing you are probably boned from the get go. Viewed the right way, instead of despair it can be a chance to see just what some of your units can do in situations you wouldn't dare put them in usually.
Great point
I loved to play only to play, it was a night of escape for me. I haven’t played since 5ed and that was blood angels, I only played janky lists. And now I’m thinking about getting back in playing elder and I am very grateful to have found your channel and to get in a mindset because my local group is more geared towards competitive play.
It certainly is a great time to be getting back into Eldar, with a new codex probably only weeks away...
BEST 40k adulting video by far! Every WH40k player should give this a listen. On point!
Thank you so much!
Narrative and fluff games are simply the funnest to play. The story a battle can tell is amazing!
There's a third possibility to when you lose: it just wasn't your night. I had those, nights were i literally couldn't roll a 2+ to save my life, other nights i rolled 5 6s on a 6+ save, it happens.
Great stuff. Something I seriously need to work on.
I, too, rail against the heat death of the universe... and play Eldar.
I'm a very casual player and found your points very entertaining and enlightening. It made me reconsider the reasons why I lost my last game (which was against my cousin against whom I have never won yet).
The last time I played in a tournament (Tau had come out the previous year-ish, which makes me feel as though I am dust) one of my takeaways, for those who might hesitate to ask the person that just destroyed you for advice, is that most players that are there to play competitively are there for the challenge. Helping other players improve means that the next tourney will be more fun for them.
From my own experience in other competitive tabletop gaming is that it’s not particularly fun to roll over everyone in the room (those people do exist, but are definitely a minority). It’s in the competitive players’ best interest to help their local play group get better! Plus, if you lost at speed, use that time to ask questions! I’ve even had opponents at smaller and more casual tournaments offer to play another game for practice if the first one was really short (assuming the organizers don’t care).
Also “Forged in the fires of lost causes” has got to be one of the most 40k phrases I’ve ever heard. 😂
I absolutely love videos like this. Strangely, I sometimes have this problem playing Magic the Gathering, but not at all in Warhammer.
It frustrates me though that the people who need this advice the most really don't want to hear it most of the time.
Always love doing a postmortem analysis with the opponent. Great advice. Keeps the vids coming!
Great advice Brent. Make the goal of each game to learn and you will be happier for it
There is this tournament player I know and I would play him just so he could keep practice. I don't play tournys, I knew he would beat me but he is such a cool person, I just wanted to hang out and watch a great player. I set goals for myself, survive till turn 3 or kill that one unit or outscore him on at least one turn. Some of these I did, some I didn't. I played much better against other people after a few weeks of that.
@@rf_cattleprod that's awesome 👌 you make a great point about setting personal goals. If done right, can greatly increase the enjoyability of a game
Mate I watched most of your videos, you're without a doubt the best channel on 40k strategy, even though I don't share your optimism when discussing a few CWE strategies.
Being someone who does play to win, yet being in a place in which I only play CWE and solely go against way better players than me with newer codices (lately SM, Sororitas, Drukhari and TS) I'm feeling this video lol. I did become a way better player for it though, and learned to plan in unexpected things in order to get some points out, which is somewhat nice in a situation in which I'm probably 1-9 in the last 10 games.
And I resorted to shining spears and walkers...heavily.
Woah, thank you- that is a serious compliment. And I do hear you on the CWE optimism- it drives me nuts too when I listen to a podcaster discuss some unit or strategy with glowing confidence that has not worked at all in my own games.
That must be really cool having games where is more about narratives and a thinking on your feet style of game.
Narrative play is super fun for sure
Hey Brent, great job on this video. You brought up some very relevant points for how to be a better player. Thanks for all you do for the hobby!
I’m just getting back in (as I’ve mentioned before), but I used to win tournaments as a teenager. And you’re dead on here, lots of play, lots of asking questions, no excuses.
good advice as always, dude.
Thanks for the video! Interestingly I find it much harder to enjoy losing when playing my Craftworlders than when playing with my Imperial Guard! I guess with the guard life is cheap, whereas with the Eldar it's the opposite!
Hahaha- that's a really good point. Spoken like a true Autarch/Commissar
I agree, great video.
In 2020 when I started playing 40k, i had regular matches with a friend. I was playing craftworlds and he played black templars. Out of more than 10 games I never won, my best result was a draw, once. And to this day the number of victories I scored with my CWE are so few that stay on one hand. So apparently i can't play my main faction, I started drukhari and it is exactly the opposite situation. Despite many errors, with drukhari I can still pull a win.
Knowing this, when I have a game planned if i want to win I don't play CWE, while if i want to try a new CWE strategy I expect to lose.
Well, we are probably only a few short weeks away from your CWE being a whole lot more like your Drukhari...
12 minutes in CE talks about the guy that won't answer questions fearing a leg up next time. I totally know a guy like that. He will never answer questions, stares intently at EVERY move you make, even when checking range before movement. He is so hard to deal with because I have asked the same questions CE brought up: what would you have done in my position or what were you afraid I'd do? EVERY single time he just shakes his head, winces, and says, "I..... I don't know".
One time I asked, 'hey this unit messes me up, how does that thing work that your doing?' Stares right into my soul as if I asked a spirit it's true name, whines, shakes his head and looks away, "I.... I don't know".
He asks if I want to play, I flat out tell him I do not enjoying playing with him. He rarely gets games these days. Kind of sad but this dude hits the table with straight murderous intent in his eyes and will laugh right in your face when you admit you made a mistake or you decide to concede. He thinks he's being friendly but I have watched him play other people and that body language is really weird when you see it from another angle.
"Stares right into my soul as if I asked a spirit it's true name, whines, shakes his head and looks away, "I.... I don't know". " !!!!
I quite literally laughed out loud at this.
@@WBConcilio Glad to help.
Another great video. Many things I need to take on board
This was amazing. I’m not even a 40k player (I play AoS), but if I were on Warhammer Weekly the week this came out, it would def be my Pick of the Week
Thank you!
I suck at losing, ty for this
my pleasure
i would say when it comes to competitive plays you can always do is make a small goal while still being competitive like "im gonna have my lynchguards hold this dreaddnout as long as possible till i get the rest of my heavy hitters in or take objective". just make a mini game out of it
Finally a topic I'm confident I know more about than you
I would LOVE to see some videos on how to prevent getting salty/being a bad sport/or getting tilted. These are things I struggle with against my friends and I hate getting grumpy and potentially ruining both of our games. :(
I totally became a passive aggressive b@tch one game. I was literally angry at this dude for saying he was going to bring one faction and then bringing a completely different faction. I wasn't trying to meta-game him but i was trying to make sure I stood a chance against him, you keeping it fun and challenging for both of us.
Well as soon as I saw the models, I knew I was boned. During his turn, top of 1, I literally started reading a comic book. He said, make 5 saves, neg 1. I grabbed 5 dice, dropped them on the table and didn't even look. That continued for a bit, then I looked at all the failed saves and removed models. He passed to my turn and I was across the room watching another game. He called out to me, 'your turn'. Looked at the table, looked at him, "I quit.", and I went outside for a smoke.
That dude was so angry. I caught some heat from other players for that stunt, even the store owner was like, WTF, bro?
True story, I regret nothing.
I say always try to win, because A) it's good experience and B) it's a dice game and crazy things happen. You could get some clutch rolls and pull off the upset! But you have to have realistic expectations and be able to handle a loss when it happens. Even the best armies lose something like 4 out of 10 games, so it's going to happen.
Having a strictly only positive outlook when regarding winning is toxic.
Great video! I'm still an amateur, but I learn much more losing to skilled players than beating my friend who is also a noob. Great lessons at my LGS
I know this guy he was new. He played various people and this one guy in particular had no sense of sportsmanlike conduct and kind of talked sh@t during the game. I felt bad for this dude and we started playing every week. It was fun for me, because I didn't have to take the game serious, I got to try out different units and techniques but I did wreck him every time until this one game. He beat me. We played again. He beat me. I told him take this list, change nothing, go find that guy and smash him. I saw my new friend the next week and his revenge was complete, he had won, and taken down the rude player.
Stop, you can't have early access and Eldar in the same video. They are anathema to each other, please reconsider making more vids like this 😤
When I know that I cant win, I usually just try to setup a more achievable goal
Thanks my friend really enjoy your videos and appreciate !!!!!
I suspect the faction is shortly to return to pre-eminence with its new codex...
Oh, I think so.
How to lose 40k:
Step 1, go second.
I believe that one should not play games if one doesn't know how to lose with dignity.
One thing I don't agree with is that "you can beat any army with your faction". Some people are just copying tournament winning lists while being good players, and if your codex is not at least A tier, you don't stand a chance, even if you are a brilliant commander, unless your opponent makes huge mistakes (which he won't, because he's a good player, so he will have a few slip ups here and there, but nothing huge to break even). That's why when I use a strong army (I have 3) and I know I will be playing against a weaker codex, I will just play something decent/strong, but leave THE cheese on the shelf. Unless he's a power gamer (which I don't shame IF they don't bully new players, I like the challenge, when we both have very strong lists), then I go all out, and it's usually a bloody good battle.
The only time I'd hate losing is when it's against someone socially inept. When he's laughing/boasting/ridiculing your actions OR fucking cheaters. I've been fortunate enough to lose to people with manners, we'd just laugh at bad dice luck, maybe discuss what went wrong in the battle and move on to have another fun game.
After years of playing, if I know the person, we usually exchange our lists before the battle (on the internet, before we even meet) and ask if that list is ok, and if they want to go balls to the walls with strong combos, or just chill with more silly units they never use, but love the models.
I wish I’d seen this before last night 😂
Inexperienced Guard player here, went second against Necrons and they destroyed me first turn.
Noooooo... Do you have lots of disposable meat shields to screen your armoured brutality? Are you hiding everything out of line of sight in deployment?
It will get better! And your codex must be coming very soon.
@@WBConcilio it’s all good. We played a small 25PL game, battlefield was small and not much cover. Im still learning, I was playing a friend and we had fun. But I just didn’t have the fire power. It was brutal. 😁
Good advice
What Star Wars movies do you consider best…?
We are on dangerous ground with this question, but I'll answer: Empire.
I was wondering as a relatively new Craftworlds player of 1 year I was wonder would it be a good idea to tape your battles to watch later and find mistakes as long as your opponent is okay with it?
Wow. Huh. I have never heard of anyone doing that, but it certainly works in the world of sport. If you have the dedication to sit through watching your own game again it might be helpful, especially if you have it on while painting. My only hesitation about this is that if you have three hours free to work on improving your Warhammer game, the time would probably be better spent playing another game if you can schedule one.
A much simpler (and way more efficient ) idea is to just take a few pictures of the board throughout the game. You wouldn't need many (and you can take them on your opponents turn when you're not doing much so it wouldn't slow the game down much, unlike filming), just enough to remind you of how the game actually went. That should be enough to assess the game and what mistakes you might have made with hindsight. A lot of 40k game time is just moving minis and rolling dice (which you don't need to review later on) so recording and then re-watching the whole thing is probably a lot of wasted time and effort.
@@aaronstorey8620 What Aaron said is much better than what I said. My new position on this is: listen to Aaron.
Eldar have been widely successful for me, however I don't play in a tourney environment.
They do well for me too- even in tournament play I expect to win the majority of my games. This is not a generalization about the faction- it's advice about a narrow subset of circumstances that can apply to players running a variety of different armies.
I started the hobby in March of 2021 with Tau, so naturally I don't care about losing. I just wanna roll tons of dice and make pew pew noises. I also don't have that weird uncle that talks about conspiracy theories, so maybe that's part of it?
i ok with winning, but id rather have fun... if the other player isnt having fun then i cant...... i will only too happily throw a game so we a having a screaming good time...... narrative is the best in my books
Narrative play is awesome- love your approach.
Thoughts on hemlock dropping 20 points?
I am excited to see the post-codex Hemlock! But as things stand, it just doesn't have the fire output or durability in my opinion to make it optimal in competitive play, even with the points reduction. I love it for casual games though, especially with the Mind War combo
@@WBConcilio Agreed, plus whenever I have to run a hefty points sink model I can't help but compare it to the Yncarne. Especially if the leaks to him are true I would rather just make room for him than a hemlock. But I have to say it does look pretty slick.
Tragically wrong about which star wars movies are good hit way too real (it's not the prequels)
Im actually really good at this already
Hahaha
nothing personal , if you go to a GT or large tournament and didn't get at least a 2W-3L ratio
I would say 4 possibilities :
1) the dice gods hated you , and this does happen
2) your list isn't an all comers list and a skewed list , skewed list usually get stomped on
3) you don't know how to play your list , the most common
4) you don't know how to play the game tactics wise
Have you notice 3 of the 4 are "you"
Sadly you have to put in the effort to become "good".
Top players just don't show up and it's handed to them
look at Imperial Guard players : 8th edition rules , BS 4 the normal and no GT wins . Yet competitive BUT GW shoehorning that all IG will be Cadians ( endless troops from an exploded plant from 13th black crusade ) I guess it's hard to sell 30 year old models that looked like US/ NATO troops from 1980's .
look at Knights players : 8th edition rules , BS 3 that changes to BS 4 fast or lower fast , 1 GT win with Forge world chassis
look at Tau ? they only want to play gun lines and say kroot are useless ( but kroot basically IG guardsmen that can jump ) Tau players are lost on basic tactics ( screen out )
look at Craft-worlds have 1 GT win but used Harlequin Patrol ( I guess it's hard to sell 35 year old models )
Tau and Eldar both getting new ( 9th edition rules ) and will have lots of Reaver Class Titan level weapons 6 +d3 ( Tau every unit it seems will ) by GW leaks
Safe bet things will not change much for them unless they change style of play
I mean, I agree with you. Saying that there is very occasionally a very particular match up that it might not be possible to win- or even a particular list piloted by an expert that a player cannot beat with the second oldest codex in the game is not the same as saying anyone should expect to lost most of their games. I am only addressing a narrow subset of matches here.
@@WBConcilio
I had trouble playing against with dark eldar and orc buggie spam .
The 1st 2 games against them I was almost tabled ,
Them 90+ and me in the 30- in victory points
I learned quick by taking on the chin and learning . I had to play different . My tactics sucked VS them .
Now a 60ish points game each side and a coin toss on who wins
Necron points drop ? their going to be a beast
I totally agree with what you said , smile , ask questions and LEARN .
Also take an experienced player to watch game , it helps a lot to talk afterwards .
The best way to win is to prevent them from scoring primaries rather than you focusing on scoring ,
Secondaries ? almost impossible to stop a OP army .
Will you win over all in a tournament ? nope but you can get the 4W- 1 L and prevent the Meta chaser from taking over all in a tournament ? Yes and that feeling is priceless
If this is true; explain this? It was WHFB but the same principles apply. Over a decade ago I played in a GW 40k tournament (my first). I turned up with a ‘good’ all comers list and ended up on the amoeba tables. I was incensed by the ridiculous spam armies I was facing so I went away and designed a ridiculous spam list myself. This took a couple of days of thinking to do and I played that army list about 6 times to get used to it. Around 4 months later I went to my second ever GW tournament. This time I ended up on the top table and came near the top by the end. There is some skill, admittedly, but in my view, 75% of this game is about army selection. I reflected on the day and realised I didn’t even enjoy the day. Playing with such a cheesy force felt so wrong. Needless to say, I’ve never been to a tournament since.
Woop! I'm a unicorn 😆
Hurray for unicorns!!
I play xenos and eventually expand to chaos. I have way more fun playing the villain than I do the hero. Space Marines players need armies like mine to get their dopamine god complex hit 😂. Xenos and chaos are what gives 40k life. Ever watch a SM vs SM battle report? They are more boring than watching paint dry.
As a pure Craftworlds player I really do not understand how anyone can go into any match up thinking they are an auto-lose... I have yet to have any game that I thought that and I have been attending a lot of tournaments in the last 6 months... Including 2 Super Majors where I went 4-1 (and would have went 5-0 at the LGT if I had not been fatigued out of my mind against one of the best players in the world... he was shocked how good my list was... and that was with me misplaying it. I am not even that amazingly good, so I really disagree that Craftworlds are underpowered. That same tournament I beat an Ork Buggies list (18 buggies. Scrapjets and sqigbuggies) 100-15 when everyone was saying they were unbeatable and that player's only other loss was vs an Admech player that finished top 8 (out of 600)... he got 5 points on Primary and 10 points for Battle Ready.
The only factions I struggle against are Drukhari as they are massively overpowered and undercosted (still) but even then I still manage to win a reasonable amount.
And in response to another of your videos... Banshees are fantastic and great for any number of match ups and uses... I never go anywhere without them. I don't even own a Shining Spear.
Jeez, now I need to know about that list haha
They are available from Bcp
I also have a friend who also went 4-1 with pure craftworlds at a major that also went 4-1. Different list than mine.
And at the coventry super in November 2021 an asuryani player (Chris Power) went 6-2 with another substantially different list.
Hey! I'm glad to hear that you are doing well with Craftworlds and having such a positive experience playing them competitively. And I agree that Craftworlds played well are better than most people think- I too win more than I lose and sometimes find new opponents are surprised at how effective CWE can be. Nevertheless, I think there must be a reason that no pure Craftworlds list has won and open in 9th edition, and they have only very rarely been on the podium even at a GT. Here is some telling data about their competitive win-rate just a couple of weeks ago: d1w82usnq70pt2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Faction_Glicko_12-29-2021.png
Here is the article that contextualizes that data: www.goonhammer.com/the-2021-warhammer-40k-end-of-year-tier-list/
Craftworlds have done extremely poorly in major tournaments overall.
If you are kicking ass at Super Majors with pure Craftworlds lists such that you do not feel they are underpowered compared to top tier factions, you could probably reasonably hope to win LVO once they have a codex, so that's pretty impressive.
@@WBConcilio
Data is one thing (my job actually) but it never tells the whole story on a 1 or 2 dimensional grid.
The reason it is not doing as well statistically is because almost everyone (including yourself) is saying Craftworlds is not competitive and so noone of a competitive mindset takes them to tournaments except die hards like me.
I am not the only one making this point as we have also seen Brad Chester do it recently against a Thicc city heavy tournament with a throw together list.
I have seen Stephen Box do it with what I consider very weak asuryani lists.
My friend Tony Sutton pulled a 4-1 at the warfare40k 2021 right behind me and Colin Power did 6-2 (1 of the 2 was against the Ork freebooterz with 5 flyers).
The other reason is because playing craftworlds is mentally fatiguing and takes a long time to play as it requires a lot of time in most phases of the game (movement, psychic, shooting and combat primarily) so clocking out can be an issue. The only solution I found to this is take (pretty much) the same list everytime and play it over snd over against different lists till you can do it in your sleep. This will speed up your play and reduce mental fatigue.
Sure, playing Craftworlds is much tougher than Drukhari but not so much so that it can’t win.
As to how I will do when the new codex comes out… who knows as every other META chaser will probably jumping on that bandwagon and a lot of them are better players than me.
I set out to get to the No.1 on the ITC Rankings before the new codex came out… and I have… but to be fair I have not had much competition because everyone believes Craftworlds are not competitive…
Which is not to say that the biggest lessons don’t come from our losses which I believe was your initial point in this video
You won't be loosing for long 😂 ...not playing eldar at least 😂