One of my childhood church friends met her girlfriend at BYU when they were roommates and they managed to get their credits transferred to a different university and were finally able to come out together. I cried because I was so happy for them both. I was also really happy to see the other people we grew up with in church being supportive and kind.
I'm glad you had a positive experience with the community- I may not be mormon anymore, but there are definitely those people in it that are genuinely awsome ,supportive and non judgemental .what sucks is those that are judgmental which is all to common in utah specifically.
@@alliedevries9426 I was very fortunate that even as I left the church I have been able to maintain some good relationships with the people I’d met growing up in it. So far they’ve all done well to respect my boundaries around not wanting to come back. I imagine it has a lot to do with us being from a small town in Tennessee as opposed to somewhere with a much larger mormon population.
Gays can go to BYU, they just can't have sex which is no different than the rest of the students. You can only have sex if you are married which is actually a teaching of the bible not just a Mormon rule. BYU is a great school.
Me either! I am generally a reasonable rule following person assuming those rules make logical sense. However, if someone in authority told me, an adult, that I couldn't do or wear something when I know that Jesus himself wouldn't focus on or care about it (i.e. what color my hair is or if I have a beard) then I would most definitely be tempted to rebel. Jesus doesn't care so much about people's outsides as he does about who we are on the inside. It's ridiculous to focus so heavily on little unimportant things when schools need to be focused on educating & supporting young people so that they are ultimately prepared to go out into the real world with ease. I personally don't think that is what God would want us to focus our time on. If I were at BYU I would end up having much more than just a red streak in my hair.
BYU students not being able to report sexual assaults IS EXACTLY why they're reported to be the safest campus in the country!! Same here in BSU! The amount of police visits, partying, SA, vandalism events that happen here are INSANE, and yet BSU is considered the FOURTH safest campus in the country, RIGHT BELOW BYU!
one of my friends from middle school went to byu and had this happen to her and it is INSANE. EDIT: I was just listening to this at first but when I went back to look at the video I saw that her photo/story was featured in the article at 26:05. She and her husband are (unsurprisingly) no longer a part of the church. When I knew her she was "all-in Mormon". She's very different now-and that's not a bad thing!
I attended a Private Catholic College. We had to take 2 religious studies classes in order to graduate. Other than that you didn’t have to do anything in regard to the religion. There were crucifixes in every classroom, a chapel on campus that had Sunday mass, and every once in a great while at certain events there was a “saying” that would be read aloud for a a response. But we had alcohol on campus (the school even has a bar onsite now), you didn’t have to attend mass at all, we had professors that were Rabbis, Buddhist, Agnostic, Atheist. Even my freshman dorm room Residential Directors was a married Lesbian couple with a daughter. I couldn’t imagine attending a school like BYU with such strict guidelines.
So the cops feed information to bishops to harm rape victims...but bishops are discouraged from telling cops about child molesters. Ask me why I left. This. This is why. This impacted me PERSONALLY. And yes, BYU is like this. I went there. Not proud about it. Parents made me. I hated it.
Exactly this. My abuser was protected and I didn't tell anyone bc the culture made me feel like it was my fault. When I was a bit older he got caught doing the same thing to someone else. He got a slap on the wrist bc he was "still young" and they "didn't want to ruin his bright future" and the church, even knowing what happened, welcomed him back with open arms after his ridiculously short sentence. So disgusting. My mom also told me when she was the relief society president that she tried to get the bishop to report a family to CPS and he refused to. She wishes to this day she had done so herself but she didn't want to get in trouble for it so she didn't.
Was it at one time that Coke/Pepsi was on the NO list because they have caffeine like coffee? Then the church wanted to invest in Coke/Pepsi so they changed the rules? Why is caffeine in Coke ok but caffeine in coffee not ok?
My cousin went to BYU and was coerced into having sex by her boyfriend. She told the bishop she was forced to PUBLICLY apologize to her entire congregation and was barred from going to temple for six months. She did end up getting her degree but unsurprisingly left the church.
Gosh I can’t imagine why she wouldn’t want to stay in such a progressive, forgiving religion? And this is why I don’t do religion - most of the really religious ones are hypocrites and terrible people
i have to imagine, with regards to the sexual assault thing, if a guy knows a girl is breaking one of the rules (like tanktops, in his house after 12) hes more likely to sexually assault her because he knows he can get away with it. scary
Alyssa touched on this, but there was actually a huge investigation. BYU police got into big trouble over information sharing, and BYU ended up adopting an amnesty policy for reporting SA after the very embarrassing PR. Not only were some men emboldened to hold rule breaking over women, merely a false threat was enough, because women were not trusted or empowered in these he said/she said situations. The Honor Code Office has the sensibilities of the SS and the skewed judgment of Inspector Javier.
@@justkiddin84 if you’re talking about the amnesty clause and such, I only trust what can be defended by public policy. The Church has shown at every opportunity the inability to moderate those who easily toss aside ethics in the pursuit of pharisaical extremism. That said, many of the reforms made are structured in a way that empowers the individual, and that’s a good thing. But I don’t like the spirit of retrenchment that’s growing on BYU campus these days. It makes me sad. My daughter is a 4.0 student and a genuinely good person. She doesn’t want to go to BYU and I can’t blame her.
Ironic that my hot pink hair would disqualify me from BYU, but not the Baptist Church choir I was in 😂 I had one lady tell me, "I love seeing you up there with your beautiful pink hair just a-singin' your heart out." Bless her hehe.
I love that! Color makes the world beautiful, so I hope you keep making people like that lady smile. As someone who served in the US military (Albeit it's been a few years since I've been in, so I'm not really current on regs), BYU's grooming regulations are crazy strict for a university so I'm not surprised even other religious institutions are more relaxed. Reminds me more of a conservative private high school than anything. No hair color, must be cut a certain way, etc... Beard waivers are quite familiar to people in the military, however. The condition where you get bumps and irritation shaving was without a doubt the most common reason for a no shave chit.
@@JedRayner I do! She's(the lady at church) has even put in color requests with me lol. I've done blue, purple, and teal for her haha. She's so sweet and cute. First off, thank you for your service! Everyone in my family (hubby included) is retired military. Mostly Navy, so I like to say that I come from a long line of seaman(hardee har har). I actually went to a private Christian college prep high school, and their only rule regarding any dress code was "No shirts with profanity". That was it. They encouraged individuality, so places like BYU, Pensacola Christian etc really throw me off with how over the top they are. As far as the beard thing goes, I can understand it for the military, but not schools or college. Like, what does it matter? The waiver thing (for the schools) are stupid, in my opinion. It's like, it's okay to have a beard for these different reasons, but just because you want one? Oh, heck no! What if an Amish student went there? Not shaving is a part of their religion. And why are Morman women(and other religions) forced or encouraged to keep long hair, but men are required to keep everything short? You've got me thinking too much over here 😂
@@brennalee8709 Everybody I ever served with thought the no-beard rule was the most ridiculous rule ever. It was one of many "power trip" rules like no hands in pockets and what not... The way leadership justified it to us (I was in the Army, so I'm not sure about regs nowadays for the other branches either) was that you couldn't seal your gas mask with a beard, but in reality most of us only went to the gas chamber once while we were in... in basic training. We were all more than okay for shaving for that, if we were in the field, or if we were down range in Iraq or Afghanistan and needed to be able to seal a gas mask. We just wanted to be able to grow one in garrison, but nope. They even made Sikh guys shave when deployed to a combat zone, which if you believe the gas mask thing doesn't sound that ridiculous, but it always struck me as a bit like asking a muslim woman to take off her hijab. Just kind of weird, and I'm pretty sure most gas masks that were made recently can seal just fine with most beards...
@JedRayner They do make masks that seal with beards but if you seal with a clean face, having a beard later on can cause leaks. Personally, I'd think you'd rather be safe than sorry and just keep a clean face.
This is why so many people say religion and state should be seperate, religion is personal and an education is a matter of state and should not be threatened like this. Thankyou for bringing awareness to this issue.
@@wtrcoloreyes religion has a right to be a part of most aspects of someone's life as long as they felt choose for it to be, I see no good reason why you can't learn about your religion at the same place you go to school, especially if you are learning to become a religious leader like a priest
@@wtrcoloreyes You originally said religious colleges should be illegal, but now you're fine with them as long as they do no other teaching? Also there are plenty of religiously affiliated colleges that are nowhere near as strict as BYU when it comes to student conduct codes (which are a thing at every university). And at the end of the day you shouldn't punish a private college just because it manages to be cheaper than public education, that's more so a fault of the state, and in most cases community college will still be cheaper.
I went to BYU Provo, I am no longer LDS. 1. A friend was fully kicked out after her roommate snitched bc my friend's fiance stayed too late at their apt. My friend was a convert, had survived a catastrophic natural disaster in her hometown and getting kicked out of school meant she couldn't get the scholarships/grants she was awarded. The atmosphere of policing peers and the honor code ruined her life for a little bit. Luckily she is doing fine now. 2. My roommate had to repent after getting help for her eating disorder. Wasn't allowed to take the sacrament because she broke the word of wisdom. 3. I was wearing normal clothes for the early oughts which meant that when I sat down part of my lower back was visible. I was sitting on the floor with my friends in the Wilk and a student my age asked me to cover up. Humiliating. 4. A classmate came out to me minutes after we graduated. 5. Another classmate was kicked out as a senior and didn't get his degree because of marijuana use. 6. I had a friend who was sikh and did legitimately have a beard card but he got dirty looks anyway. 7. I had another roommate who was so sweet and she refused to say "damn" or "hell" even if it was in a hymn or scripture. 8. Another roommate wore a nice dress to a dance but an older chaperone thought it wasn't modest enough so my roommate had to supplement her coverage with paper towels or go home. The paper towels were kind of placed in the bodice to cover up her chest.
I posted this on your last vid but it’s more pertinent here; I had an honor code office experience where I was reported for not being clean shaven enough. At that time I had bad ingrown hairs and folliculitis so I would try and let my skin rest for 2 days in between shaving. Essentially I was told I could get a doctors note (but only from the campus doc) or leave. The campus doc said it wasn’t bad enough for a waiver, so I ended up getting laser hair removal on my own beard so I could stay enrolled. One of my biggest regrets.
That is absolutely awful 😞 I’m so sorry. Crazy the lengths they require people to go, and the fact that you can’t reverse laser hair removal so it was an irreversible choice. I’m so sorry.
The way they coerce your OWN choices about your OWN body, seriously no bodily autonomy that's fucked up. We see it all the time policing women's reproductive rights but to pull off something so harmful for something as small as a few beard hairs
@@tagussiewell I wouldn’t say those two are the same. The shaving thing only involved the young man. “Reproductive rights” involves the mother and the developing child. But I do agree that the requirement the church put on him was totally out of line.
The police disclosing private information to a religious institution is WILD. What about privacy? I mean, many Americans are big on their freedom and rights, but this to me is a major infringement on those. Like a branch of government is disclosing to a private institution?!?!?!
I don't like that a youtube comment section is where you have to learn this but the US government doesn't give a damn about privacy, freedom, etc. Many government officials policies are informed by which private companies pay them most to do things. Police disclosing private information to anyone really is not uncommon. There is not justice in the justice system. Edit to add: You're correct in thinking that doing that is wrong. I'm not trying to debate that. I'm just trying to say that despite it being something that shouldn't be done it is not uncommon (nor unsurprising if you look into just how the system works.)
@@0ddOdd I was gonna say the police disclosing private information is pretty much in their job description. They are actually not here to help us unfortunately
There's a really huge mixing of church and state in Utah, it's not just limited to this. It honestly didn't strike me as surprising at all to hear that the police in Utah report back to the church. Even then it wouldn't have to be an official report, it could be Officer John gossiping in his congregation about Billy who he picked up on a DUI. Officer John thinks Billy is a good kid and doesn't want to ruin his future, but Sister Sally who overhears the gossip can't resist stirring up the pot and thinks Billy needs to learn his lesson, so she makes a report to BYU... Mormons LOVE to gossip, and they have a really tight network that enables it. I speak from experience here being the subject of the gossip, and they will totally tattle on you to whatever religious authority they think they can get you called in by.
i was a gay student as notre dame in the 90s. its fascinating how catholicism is intellectually completely open to inquiry, but culturally still very conservative. whereas Mormonism is full fledged anti-intellectual exploration of questions, PLUS even more culturally conservative. i appreciate how you point out part of queer students suffering may be related to unreported SA - great insight.
I’m going to a Catholic University right now as a gay student and while it was probably a bit more conservative back in the 90s I do agree. I think post Vatican 2 something I can say about Catholic culture is it’s very curious about basically everything. Note: that kind of intellectualism is baked in since back in the Late Medieval Era it *was* the academia. Mormonism never had to fade the pressure of being intellectually honest.
It was kind of fun when you added a picture of the BYU ballroom team because my brother is in that picture lmao. When I left the church he told me that he was almost positive that I’d gone to church WAY more leading up to my leaving than he had during most of his time at BYU lol. He was telling my parents recently how there was a kid on the ballroom team that was being INCREDIBLY academically dishonest all the time and my brother wanted to report him (even just to the ballroom coach I think) but he couldn’t report him because then he knew that the kid would report so many people on the ballroom team for a number of honor code things. The tattling culture is INSANE
I agree. I can tell that she would've been a great teacher had she been given a chance to have good students. And not been overworked, like all our teachers are. She's got a great way of speaking that really captures the attention-perfect for class lectures
Speaking of BYU Hawaii, can you please address in a future video the foothold that Mormonism has in Hawaii and Pacific islander nations? Also what do you think about the Polynesian cultural center, which I was surprised to learn is run by the LDS church and generates a lot of revenue for the church?
Having served a mission there, the tragic stories of colonialism there are so interesting. The sad thing is that Mormonism co-opted so many cultural traditions and destroyed many others. For instance the Laie temple and PCC is built on one of the most sacred sites for Hawaiians.
Excellent suggestion. I (non-Morman) enjoyed visiting the PCC 20+ years ago, but always have felt uneasy about even that small and inadvertent financial support of a LDS-operated facility.
a girl i went to high school with got a FULL RIDE to the university of michigan. it’s called the HAIL scholarship and it’s a HUGE deal. umich has a 17% acceptance rate, and it’s one of the best schools in the state and big10. she turned it down to go to BYU. we didn’t have many/any other mormons here, so none of us really understood why she’d make that decision. thanks for the info!
I went to the U of U and could not believe how many BYU students came to party on the weekend because they couldnt stand to be at BYU a minute longer. They were also really sexually frustrated and went to the U on the weekends to hook up. It was insane!
I'm from Provo but I've never been Mormon but when was 18-20 and living that hookup lifestyle, there were ALWAYS return missionaries on Grindr ready to go near the BYU campus. I stopped after awhile though because most of them were bad at sex but also just really sad guys who'd feel guilty afterwards.
I remember a story of a girl (during my years at BYU) who went to take a test on the way to the airport for Christmas break. In jeans. She did not have time to go change so she went in the bathroom, took off her jeans and closed up her coat and went to the testing center in her underwear! 😅 lol. The ultimate hypocrisy and really illustrates the insanity of the dress code.
The last year I was at the Y about 1073, they allowed women to wear pants on campus. Before they had to wear a skirt. We horney boys were disappointed because we couldn't get those occasional glances to the forbidden zone.
My life is so toxic and everything was on church and I have color in my hair, I am gay. It is just a hard time and I am still in the church against my will because of my parents. My parents are soooooooooooo morman that I can even talk to them with out holding my breath. Just so you know I am 14 and I was thinking about going to BYU because all of my family went to BYU but now I think I want to go to a different college. Thank you for making this video it helped me a lot
Please know that you are so young and everything will get better so soon. Things are temporary and you will not be in this stage of your life forever. Stay safe and only share your most inner thoughts with people you KNOW for sure you can trust. Know that you are not alone even if you feel like you are. There are thousands of other children (like me!) going through the same or very similar things. If things ever get really hard, please just remember that in only a few years you'll be at whichever college you choose to go to (or anywhere else that isn't college) having a great time and looking back at this time in your life as only a memory 💓💓💓🤍
Same! Glad you are out of this cult / church of lies and fake information. I grew up in a very reserved/conservative church, and I am so glad I went away from that after middle school. I am now happy because I make my own rules and act according to my own morals, rules, and guidelines.
I grew up in the church, but left when I was 18 (16 in spirit). Unfortunately, due to trauma from the church and home, I don't remember much of early, early Mormon life. I'd love a video on Primary Class, the 10 year olds that were put in charge of us during activities, the Primary Songs and lessons. I remember being groomed since the age of 6 or 7 to start thinking of being a wife and mother.. Thank you so much for this series. Both my sisters left recently and I've learned so much of what they went through (mission & marriage) through your videos and it has helped me to be informed and supportive through their journey.
@@China-Clay Aw. Of course. I could never hold something against someone's journey. Especially escaping a cult. We all have been affected in different ways and process them uniquely. They supported and loved me leaving while staying in themselves and now I can support them on their separation journey.
@@deliahhh i think she means she officially left at 18 but in her heart/soul/mind, she had already deconverted/left/stopped believing the church at 16
i went on two dates with a girl while at byu idaho about two years ago. i wasn't fully deconstructed yet but i didn't want to let the church take that experience away from me so to hell with the rules. when my next ecclesiastical endorsement came around, i simply lied to the bishop's face to be able to finish my semester. also, in some ways i think as long as you're not being blatantly romantic, gay dates are easy to get away with because you could just be friends. how would anyone know? also they are allowed to be in your bedroom and things when the opposite sex can't. anyway shoutout to all the queer byu students keeping it on the dl. true warriors
@@sunnydlite-t8b fear, loss of support, loss of family, fear of reprisal against family members, fear of family being unable to support itself after you left... there are dozens of reasons.
My husband and I left the church in the year 2000. I spent a total of 18 yrs in it, my husband was in it since age 13. Around 8 years in, I got disenchanted due to their refusal to give and sort of help or support when my husband took ill and lost his job. I had to support us and had 2 young children at the time. I was looked down on for having a career. I'd already had one by age 27, when I joined. What was I supposed to do, lose our home and everything? They had no problem continuing to ask for time and money, which we didn't have. My husband recovered, but the damage was done. I read on the Internet about other people encountering similar treatment. I wanted to leave, but the kids were young and my husband remained a believer. I'd seen them break up other peoples marriages when one partner either wasn't a member or had left. I waited 10 years until he finally saw the light. They are a cult, they brainwash people, and they are toxic. If you don't already have problems, they'll make some for you. By the way, the first thing I bought after leaving was a coffee machine.
Ex-Mormon here, but my dad is currently the president at our branch. I was wondering why Mormons are so obsessed with genealogy? As a Native American, I feel like they are so invasive here on the reservation and always trying to get to know our ancestors. I understand wanting to learn about our culture, but like I said they are invasive about it.
@@s1eepysnai1yes for sure. The current elder missionaries here are going to ask our tribe to build like an ‘archive place’ to hold all of our ancestors records. They’re willing to do it for free, but I feel like they are going to ask to do baptisms for the dead of our ancestors. I am weirded out 🫢
@@kaitsalinas7155they won't ask to do them, they will take those records without telling anyone and they will use them for baptisms. It's incredibly disrespectful and disgusting that they do this without anyone's consent, and it is often racially and religiously targeted towards people who are obviously not going to consent to that sort of thing because of their culture or spiritual beliefs.
Walked out on my mission at MTC and went to the Air Force recruiter in Provo as otherwise homeless. Best decision I ever made. 4 older siblings all BYU grads. Soooo glad I missed it. Thanks so much for making me feel normal.
Wish I'd been smart enough to join the Army instead of the mission field when I had the chance. Yeah it could have killed me with Iraq and Afghanistan going on but at least I'd get the GI bill instead of forking over $10K to walk around like an idiot salesman in Latin America for 2 years.🎉
I wish I had that courage. I knew I didn't want to be there, but went anyway because of how much pressure there was. I knew from a really young age I didn't want to do it, and even now I still think going was the worst decision I ever have made in my life.
Traded one cult for an arguably much better one 🤣 Although, since it's the Air Force, it was probably more like a gigantic corporation in comparison to other branches like the Army or Marines.
ALSO! If you get reported whether true or false, they notify your professors so they will kick you out of class until you meet with honor code!! My roomate failed out of college bc she was falsely accused of being pregnant and wouldnt go in…
It's funny to hear you say "it's not a hickey" - to me, it speaks to how your Mormon upbringing still holds some importance in your subconscious, as why should you care if we think it's a hickey? We all bear scars from our childhoods, and it's awesome to see how far you've come from the repressive expectations of your youth. Keep it up! :)
I was a super religious Catholic girl who seriously considered going to BYU, felt that my faith’s Universities weren’t strict enough. Came out as Gay this year, glad my parents dissuaded me.
It's a bit like GDR state security "stasi". Teachers would ask their little students what programme they watched as kids, if it was west German, parents were in trouble. Ppl would spy on their own spouses, parents, friends, family etc. Your best friend might have been the one to bug your apartment and got you into prison.
@@Freaky0NinaYea this happened during the Cultural Revolution in China too. Extreme examples would be during Stalin's reign and while Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were in power. They all used "Gestapo" tactics. I wonder how the mormon church views 1984.
So I was born and raised in Layton Utah. I was excluded from ALOT of friends because my family was not LDS. It brought me alot of anxiety depression and confusion. I tried to join the church but the Bishop of our ward would not let me because the rest of my family was not LDS. My childhood sucked 😢😢
The Mormon church is so hyper controlling that not being allowed to join to the Nth degree with the LDS was the best thing you had. This is because in the real Holy Bible, it says that by grace we are saved through faith lest man should boast. Mormons decided that we are saved through works which is a lie and not in the true Holy Bible. I would read the Christian non-Mormon Bible for yourself. Best Wishes!
I will grant you I am 50 years past my time at BYU, BUT I did graduate from BYU. I know that I went to church every week I was there but I don't remember one single time I went to church. After I graduated I "phased" out of the the church. It served me well and when it didn't anymore I left. No one seemed to care so as far as I know I'm still on the church rolls - haven't been excommunicated that I know of. Anyway, I've been enjoying your content very much and I'm very grateful my father wouldn't LET me go on a mission after listening to your temple experiences. I appreciate your perspective!
On another note, my dad was excommunicated after getting kicked out of BYU in the early 70's. He broke EVERY RULE & didn't try to hide it. He embodied sex, drugs, & rock and roll starting in high school. Not sure how he got in from the start. I'm glad he got clean before I was born, but wish he'd never gotten baptized again when I was 5.
Thank you for sharing about sexual assault. My daughter was sexually assaulted in 2022 and she went to our Bishop and nothing was done about it. The police didn't even do anything about it. Therefore we haven't been back since then.
I was booted out of Ricks college for staying out past the curfew, but many of the other students who I saw breaking curfew didn't get any consequence. It was wierd too because my advisor said that I was entitled to a meeting to decide whether I could stay or not, but that if I lost then I wouldn't be refunded any of my tuition (as opposed to just walking away). I chose to do the meeting because I wanted to stay, and at the beginning of the meeting he told the group of people there who were to hear my case that it was only a formality because I had requested it, but that I would be let go. I was so shaken I didn't realize it would have been best to leave right then and there, but I asked the group to please let me stay, and was then ushered out of the room. A few minutes later the advisor said I'd been kicked out of the school, and laughed, saying that was the fastest decision he'd ever seen. I felt so humiliated and tricked. I went home and could never understand why I wasn't just given a warning for breaking curfew, especially since so many other students had done the same. I didn't realize such a quick expulsion from the school would happen over one rule break, one time, without any kind of probation period. I was pretty young and not perfect, but I had excellent grades, a strong testimony and wanted to complete my education there. I lost all my tuition money and returned home a disgrace. In addition to this, the night before I left for home, I found an envelope on my bed from my roomates. Inside was a hateful letter about how I was a sinner and going to hell, because I had stayed out past curfew with my boyfriend, and they saw me skip the sacrament, so assumed I had done something very wrong. I didn't understand how going to a college that was supposed to be managed by the church I loved would be such a horrible experience.
I straight up am so confused. WTF is up with universities in the states? Are these just the religious ones? Cops on campus? CURFEWS????? The university I go to in Canada has NONE of this shit and if they tried to implement any of it I'd be protesting at the deans office every day.
My spouse is very fair with dark hair - they carried an electric razor in their backpack to be shaving IN THE LINE because they would be sent away regularly. My SIL was reported by a nightmare roommate a couple of weeks before her wedding. And I have many more from friends who went to each campus- including the failed eastcoast mormon College.
I worked in a law office in eastern Utah in the late 70's and our clientele was mainlyvyoung women 20-25 years old' at least two kids, and their husband decided he didn't want to be married, found someone else, etc. and they were left with no means of support and limited education.
I went to a fundamentalist baptist college and it was very similar. It’s wild to me how we acknowledged that Mormons were in a cult but couldn’t see that we were exactly the same
As an Army vet, I've had some serious and not-no-serious conversations with guys back in the day who considered not re-enlisting because they wanted to grow a beard. All the white guys in my unit, including me, looked like a bunch of burnt, pasty weirdos walking around clean shaven in Iraq. BYU's beard regulations are eerily reminiscent of the Army's grooming regs- especially the beard waivers for shaving bumps and irritation, and religious exemptions for Sikh guys.
@JedRayner Supposedly, there are/were lots of church leaders who were Vietnam-era military veterans and they copy-pasted some US Military regs to LDS Mission rules.
I knew someone in Utah who went to BYU and was in a BYU Studios film set in the era of Joseph Smith. Because of this, he had a beard growing while he was working on the film. He had to wear a huge sign around his neck explaining that he was allowed to have the beard. He was harassed so much by both professors and students for his beard (even thought it was FOR the Church and he had PERMISSION to do so) that he ended up giving up the entire film and just shaving because it was too much.
I'm from Missouri, have some Mormon friends and acquaintances, and they all have a very specific understanding of the causes of the Mormon Missouri war/conflict that led to the eventual expulsion of Mormons from Missouri in the 1830s. A lot of what I hear is that it was Missourians hating Mormon abolitionism, which doesn't track with what I've read about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's writings about slavery and Black people in general. Could you do a video about Mormon approaches to the conflict in Missouri and what else might have been going on with how Mormons and non-Mormons in Missouri were interacting with each other? I love your channel!
This would make an excellent video. Probably more something up the alley of the Mormon Podcast group but who knows, Alyssa may actually have some expertise in this arena.
It's interesting that's the take of mormons in Missouri, since I was brought up as mormon in Utah, they teach it's two fold reasons, the other people living in Missouri worried about losing political power in the state to the growing mormon population, and satan influencing the unrighteous to try to destroy the "true church" in its infancy, and destroying the "restored gospel" I'd have to look into it more, but I think Joseph Smith was much more permissive to black members than Brigham Young was. For example, Joseph Smith permitted black converts and allowed them to be ordained as priests, an action with Brigham Young undid when he took over as leader of the church. But then again I do take that with a grain of salt since they also claim that mormons in Utah sided with the north in the civil war, yet they also allowed for slavery in the territory, and Brigham Young himself owned several slaves.
I live near a Mormon church here in Germany, literally less than a 10 minute walk away from my apartment and I used to live even closer, and it's definitely strange. Many people here don't even really seem to know what the fuck Mormons even are even though they live right next to them. The missionaries are treated as weird aliens basically, not unfriendly but as I live in a part of the country where being an atheist is the majority you can probably imagine how open to listening to that stuff the average person is. People won't be unkind though and I've seen people help the missionaries when they see them struggle with every day stuff. I've done the same because damn those are 18 year olds who are suddenly in a foreign country not allowed to really speak their native language and I'm obviously bilingual. If you approach them speaking English they're allowed to speak it as well. Very easy to spot especially during the warmer months because nobody dresses like them here. 😂
@@DieAlteistwiederda Czech here. Compared with Mormons, CDU/CSU is a poster symbol of liberalism and open-mindedness. I even knew of a "Christian FKK group" in the 1990s, not kidding. A group of families and all kinds of people in Strausberg (the one by Berlin).
Brazilian here! I live next to a mormon church and there are a lot of foreign missionaries around here. Brazillians normally find them quite annoying because of the intense preach or feel pity for them, because a lot of them are young and seem to be very naive in such a big city like São Paulo. In the religious point of view, mormons don’t really make sense to us.
i’m from texas but i knew a girl who was Mormon and when we were freshmans in high school she was questioning her faith. im a lesbian and she was asking me how i knew i was gay lol, she told me she thought she was bi. during our sophomore year she made a public apology on her social media saying she was going back to the faith (it was like an essay). and if i remember correctly she also said that she was straight and wasn’t bi anymore. by the time we were getting close to graduating she was back to being a full Mormon and was going to BYU Idaho and deleted all her social media. i hope she’s doing well now and is living her most authentic life.
Thanks Alyssa, As an adult child of a Mormon, emeritus BYU professor, I observe that the Church standards that he (and his Mormon peers on faculty )upheld throughout career employment were more extortionary than the standards for BYU students can possibly be, whether they are Mormons or not. Without fail , my father paid a full 10% tithe on his salary, which he drew from the Lord’s university ,for the privilege of being on His faculty. In fact, had my father deviated from Church standards he would have risked his job, not just credits toward a Bachelor’s degree. This also meant that my parents marriage, family life, religious views, as well as professional and secular conduct , and any outside acheivements including political activitites were up for surveillance. He/ we lived as a family in the crucible of this , his extenuated probation, ( the least of which was academic). Every move made by any one in our family had the potential for ruining my world renowned father’s image in the eyes of his small-town , parochial , all-governing employer’s. The pressure made me a skeptic early on. But there is no room for free thought in a Mormon, BYU professor’s home. On campus this translates to learning is by rote , and teaching is by rote.In the first place , an education ought to teach a person how to think for himself. BYU is the last place to claim an honest one by this definition.
I hate coffee, can't stand the smell of either. Makes me slightly nauseous. But I ❤️LOVE❤️ Earl Gray and Lady Gray tea. So I wouldn't make it at BYU either. But I wouldn't even try. I found out about cults a long time ago. But I'm old so there's that.
BYU - Idaho (formerly Ricks College) is a more strict campus than the Provo campus. They have strict rules for clothing. Even gym attire forbids rider pants for women. There are curfews and restrictions on men in women's dorms.
Half of my highschool got into byu and i even asked a girl in my class senior year if she really believed in Mormonism and she said “not really but my parents are paying for it” 😀
I attended Ricks '97-00, absolutely regret that decision. Being an adult I alwaye felt like I was not to be trusted. Living off campus in approved housing, there was always the 10pm girl check, check every bedroom, shave everyday and absolutely assimilate every past of my life to feel like I was privledged to attend.
Well you brought up that "For stength of the youth" BS so now I can comment. My Family decided to relocate to Utah where my moms family was based from the East Coast shortly after Hinckley wrote that pile of garbage. So here I am, a 15 year old male Goth kid with jet black hair past my shoulders, sideburns that went below my ears, seven ear piercings, two eyebrow piercings and a pierced tongue(my parents were very Liberal and cool with piercings), not to mention wearing several pieces of jewelry every day, all blqck clothing including and esspecially bamd tshirts, showing up for High School in Utah County. Every single day was a verbal fight that eventually escalated into physical fights. First the Teachers: They hated it and numerous Teachers attempted to force the FSY rules on me. I was kicked out of one class every week due to my refusal to comply, even after my father went to the school and shouted down the Principle that we aren't Mormon, it is a public school funded by taxpayers, that it is illegal to force religion in public school and that they need to stop trying to force their religion down my throat. Of course nothing was done and the Principle and Teachers tried the typical Peter Penishood gaslighting game about how it is my fault and accusing my parents of being bad parents. The students? Nonstop verbal abuse that quickly escalated into full on hate speech. I honestly got a lot of attention from females due to the fact I was so different from all the Ambercrombie Bro's they grew up around. This caused the Moronic Priesthoods to lose their 💩 and I got to enjoy being called a f--got all day everyday. Reporting it to the Moronic Priesthoods running the school just resulted in more gaslighting and repeatedly being told "if you didnt look like a NY Prostitute they wouldnt be calling you those names. Maybe it is time to have some introspection and present yourself as a respectable young man." Weird and mesed up how all that crap still sits there in my mind over two decades later.
Me, an agnostic, purple-haired, coffee-drinking lesbian (married to another woman) who swears often immediately disqualifying myself from being able to attend BYU 🤣
I’m a spiritual person but definitely not a religious person. I think if all people could live by the golden rule “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, the world would be a much better place.
Don’t feel bad, I wouldn’t be eligible to work there either as a bawdy redneck lesbian. Think “Teeter” from Yellowstone, but only slightly more refined and with a bachelor and master’s degrees. I also have no idea how they’re skirting federal guidelines around TIX by effectively punishing complainants who report assaults and the respondents might get nothing.
I graduated from Baylor, which is a private Baptist university. Students are not required to be religious or a particular religion and faculty/staff are not required to be from a specific denomination or faith tradition. No dress codes. The campus is a dry campus, but the student life was great and the academics are extremely high-quality. I had a wonderful experience and love the culture there.
@@thespia Christian of any denomination or Jewish I believe. And faith affiliation is self-reported, so faculty vary wildly in how much they express their faith.
@@epicemmalee2000 Interesting...You'd think they would at least be Christian. I know back in the 90s, I believe, Baylor had a big controversy because they had a Mormon there teaching religion classes.
As someone who is currently attending a Catholic university, the questions about being gung ho about everything in the religion is so bizarre to me. My school is 60/40 Catholic to non catholic, and the worst thing the student handbook enforces is no political signs of any kind in windows of dormrooms and no boys in the girls' halls overnight.
Yayy I'm so happy for you being sponsored!! I absolutely love your videos and learning about the LDS universe from your experiences, as someone who has never been a member but is low-key obsessed with mormonism hahahahah keep up with the good work!
It is wonderful to see your channel nearing the 100k mark. I love your content, even though I have never been Mormon. I'm Irish. Growing up, my mother told us how the country was overrun with Mormon Missionaries in her youth, eager to sign up new members. They had some real success. The state brought an end to the "pedalling of religion in the streets". In our last cencus, only 1100 people were registered as Mormon, including children. Out of a national population nearing 5 million, that is a drop in the ocean. The Mormon Church is no longer permitted to treat women as second class citizens. In fact Ireland is celebrated for it's promotion of women in industry, commerce and education.
There's a IG account of a nice Irish Mormon boy married to an American girl also Mormon and they live in Spain..being Irish myself, I was shocked to see a nice Irish boy Mormon....I thought we Irish was smarter then that....but they do have 2 really cute kids.
Hi Alyssa, I really enjoy your videos. I grew up southern Baptist but was looking for a better fit in my 20s so, I searched out many religions. A Mormon coworker took me to her church a few times, gave me the books to read and took me to the Hill Cumorah Pageant... since we lived so close, in Syracuse. As a theater kid and adult, I could appreciate the production... it was spectacular but, as a black woman i did notice the homogeneous crowd. Lol I learned a few things that I actually found useful, ie food saving, but found none of the religions were for me. It is so nice to hear the real things you don't get told. Could you do a video about the Pageant?
So glad you jumped the shark by not falling for Mormon manipulation. When we moved to Utah, my six year old son asked me, "Mommy are there any black people in Utah?" That little boy noticed it almost immediately.
I got honor coded MAJORLY at BYU-H compared to the white girls on campus. Even my haole roommates were astonished when I’d get dress coded over them 🥲 being a dark brown curvy Hawaiian girl and mormon is the most over-sexualized thing I’ve experienced. I also told my Tongan ward bishop I broke the law of chastity while attempting to go through my “repentance process,” and he was LIVID. Im sure if I were his own kid he woulda whooped my ass. I left BYU-H after one semester of being there and don’t regret it. I DO regret wasting my time and life to the mormon church. I love watching your videos. It really provides some sort of closure to my childhood. So MAHALO for these
Personally I don’t drink coffee (it makes me jittery and I’m not a fan of that 😂) but I think that’s just ridiculous. There are plenty of people who need caffeine to function and I don’t agree with an entire religion banning it.
@@DanielaBodoh yeah. I get jittery a bit. I hate that feeling so I only drink 2 cups max in the morning. But I actually can’t wait for that first cup. I’m not kidding when I say it brings me joy. It might be the ritual of it.
@@DanielaBodoh They don't ban caffeine, per say. I'm not sure that caffeine was really known about in the 1840s when the "Word of Wisdom" was written. What is forbidden is coffee, tea, and alcohol. Lots of Mormons drink soft drinks (like soda) that has caffeine. They also will drink herbal tea. I'm not sure what it is about coffee that Joseph Smith was upset about.
I knew a badass Army soldier and his badass army soldier wife. He went to BYU to take an ROTC posting. He was not happy about this assignment. He had to follow the honor code rules- no coffee drinking, no alcohol. What an asinine rule for a military person to be asked to follow. I don’t know if BYU still has a program, I guess they do because of the government money it brings in. He was told by a BYU administrator/professor to just lie about the coffee and alcohol. Ironic that BYU, in order to get the qualified ROTC instructors who take their Officer, military oaths seriously encourage those people to be dishonest in order to keep the program there.
Sounds about right for BYU. I was one kicked off BYU Campus as an independent contractor about 20 years ago for not following the Taliban code. Like I told them: I don't work for you, I work for a contractor doing work here and I am not beholden to your rules. My violation? Facial hair.
This was really helpful to understand just how horrible it was for Adam Paul Steed to have Jodi mess with his BYU enrollment. I didn't realize just how precarious your spot in the program is and how much power bishops have over people's future 😢 Mormonism is morally bankrupt and I hope Adam and the other victims of this cult find healing.
I was on the Standards Committee at BYU-I. It's insane. Stayed too long in a woman's apartment and now you're getting kicked out? Hair too long when you try to take a test at the testing center? Wearing "revealing" clothing on campus? Go to another school, folks.
Alyssa thank you for sharing your experiences and so much info about the church in such an honest and straight up way! I grew up mormon and left in 2016 at age 26. Still processing my deconstruction and religious trauma. Your videos are so helpful and validating!!!
I was raised in a very strict LDS family in CA and begged to go to BYU but luckily my parents made the decision to have me stay in CA and go to a state school. I'm soooo glad now that I was able to go to a public university and get away from the strict teachings of the church. I was so immersed in the cult of the LDS church that I don't think I would have had the gumption to leave. I'm 54 years old now and still dealing with the trauma of being raised in such a puritanical society.
I went to BYU and graduated in 1999. I also served a mission in Chile. I still have nightmares where I am somehow back at BYU or in Chile. I was "squeaky clean" as well. I went to church less and less until I was 30 because I would have anxiety attacks from going. It took me afew years after that to completely detox. I am still horrified by the blatant homophobia I learned growing up. Watching this video and seeing everything she pointed out certainly brought back some bad memories, but also let me see all the tactics that were used to brainwash me. It makes it a little easier to forgive my younger self.
I really appreciate your videos and view point on parts of the religion that is not shared opening with active members. It’s really helped me understand and heal. I had a very close friend since elementary school she was Mormon, she went away to BYU and then was taking a year off for her mission but the week before she was supposed to leave she passed. A week later I received a letter from her, she was so scared of the church because she was a queer and couldn’t imagine any other way that she could leave.
I am so very sorry for your loss of your friend. And for the loss to the rest of us of her light in the world. 💔For those who believe in a Final Judgement, do they ever believe there will be accountability for the results of their actions?
Went on vacation a couple years ago to Wyoming and we saw a guy at a bar named Kalyn Beasley and he played a hilarious song called “Goodbye BYU”, I still listen to it time from time
The testing center is a thing in other universities but it’s completely different to how you discribed it at byu, typically you only go there if you need to retake a test, a final for a class or if you have certain accommodations such as extra time on tests, the use of text to speech software, or other medical conditions or medical disorders that prevent you from taking a test in class
I attended BYU from 2017 to 2021 as a non-member and while I agree with just about everything in the video (fuck BYU), I did not have to answer all the questions on the big list of ecclesiastical endorsement questions. If I remember correctly, all they really cared about was wether I was following the word of wisdom (no drinking/smoking) and the law of chastity (no sex). I did have to deal with their door-to-door salesmen (missionaries) so I had to put up with other shit than church members.
@@Langwidere903 It was a backup school when I was applying to colleges, and all the others on my list did not accept me. Also I didn't really know what I was getting into, I had family that went there so I was like why not? 🤷♂
I guess you figured out the why not part after you got there. I mean college is hard enough as it is, but imagine adding in people around you telling on you for the least little thing like drinking that beverage of damnation - coffee - or much worst being attacked and being accused that it was all your fault because you’d been out too late or a guy could see your shoulders or whatever other insane things they like to blame on women. And it sounds like you wouldn’t be able to transfer your credits earned to another university.
@@annapruitt5546 I knew it was a religious school, and I had attended Catholic schools all my life so I figured it wouldn't have been much different (it's way more strict than any Catholic school I attended). I studied comp sci, and at least at the time, the comp sci program at BYU was pretty solid.
I went to BYU my freshman year (1989-1990) and one of the many things that rubbed me the wrong way was the testing center. I could not understand how or why it was there and why I wasn't to be trusted to be honest. I remember having to sign the Honor Code pledge thing and then the institution basically said we know you are really a liar and a cheater that can't be trusted so we are going to look over your shoulder while you take your tests. I remember being so confused upon being told that we had to go to this place to take our tests and it was so degrading and that was maybe one of the first big things that told me this place wasn't for me. It just made no sense. We were all told how special we were and how we were chosen to be there for our righteousness; and then we were treated like criminals who couldn't be trusted.
@@MysticOceanDollies Sure, but do most universities claim to have the most righteous, chosen youth on the planet attending Jesus' university? It doesn't make sense to be told day in and day out how wonderful, pure and chosen by God you are and also you can't be left alone, ever, because you will touch yourself and you can't be trusted to take a test without cheating. The thought of cheating on a test never entered my mind until I had to go to a testing center and I thought to myself that they were expecting me to cheat and that maybe most of my classmates were cheating.
@@bgroesserI think you may have missed the point here. To say you enjoyed whatever testing center you used leads me to believe that you were not being sent there punitively and that you likely were treated as a trustworthy person. Which was not this poster’s experience. Hopefully that clears things up.
Maybe you've done this already but a video about the views of the Mormon church around mental health and disabilities (physical and not) Thanks ahead of time! Love your content! ❤
What a great podcast! I've got the best old-school honor code horror stories. First off. the get one thing straight, it's Ricks College, the high school of the Lard(tm). BYU was Berkley compared to Ricks! I was at Ricks when BYU announced they now allowed shorts. Ricks made it crystal clear that did not apply to Ricks. You hit all of the good points. I did studt abroad and the second the plane door opened, the shaving stopped. I'd love to share the good stories with you. The big difference between Ricks and BYU was, Ricks is a small place, they can enforce the honor code anywhere. Whereas at BYU, they are too big to enforce anywhere, so they enforce it at strategic points (see testing center).
Thank you for being so open and sharing your experience! I grew up in the church and sometimes I consider returning sometimes but not for the right reasons and these videos really help me!
I Love these videos! I was raised Mormon but got out before doing a mission or going to BYU, so this is sort of like a morbid look into the path my life could have taken 💀💀💀 So thank you for making these, they are excellent and very informative!
I was approached by two Morman guys yesterday (for the second time ever in Ireland) after watching all your stuff lately and I was like … they’re watching me!
Your comment about feeling anxious walking by the Honor Code office despite being extremely straight-edge resonated with me. I've never been in a strict religious environment like Mormonism (I'm part of a liberal Christian denomination), but I'm pretty straight-edge by my own choices. Yet I still worry about having something dug up about me and destroying my life. I can only imagine that feeling amped up when literal college degrees are on the line. I'm glad you got out and hope you're finding freedom to make choices that resonate with who you are!
My brother attended BYU Idaho for a time, but was coming to terms with being gay at the same time. He ultimately dropped out and transferred to a different school because he realized it was only a matter of time before he was kicked out. He's now happily married to his husband and living a much better life outside the church. I know not all LGBTQ kids attending BYU are so lucky, however... I'd be curious to see you cover some of the movies the church has released and have tried to get some mainstream success with, such as God's Army, the Saturday's Warrior film adaptation, Saratov Approach, etc.
In the late 1960’s there was a bar in Orem that the police were told not to go to because members of the football team hung out. There was also an incident where several members of the team beat up a person who pissed them off, and it was reported to the police and the police literally refused to file a report. So it shows who the police really cared about!
I was raised Christian and though my experience was MUCH less strict and culty, it left me with religious trauma that led me to losing my faith at 13 and never looking back. Thank you for doing what you do and taking your pain and turning it into something that can help people get though something that is so difficult in a way that some people could never understand. All the love for you.
I love that we can talk about whatever we need to here. Thank you for having a safe space for us former cult kids to discuss what we need to discuss. ❤
Its so easy to listen to you. I can put these videos on while i play a game or clean and not tune out at any point. There are some channels that put out content i want to listen to but the way they speak makes it all almost run together and i realize at some point I've got no clue what they've been saying. But with you i follow along the whole way =]
Oh and I’ve a funny story about self love toys. As a single mom of 2 school age children, I had time for working for 40-60 hours/week, getting the kids to and from school and spending quality time doing things with my kids and dogs on whatever time I had available, hence dating didn’t happen and let’s face it, a girl gotta have at least self love! Now one of the blessings and curses was the fact that if something was missing in the house, my 9 year old daughter could find it. This also means that she loved to snoop! Well I found out from one of the older children that she’d been showing every single child in our neighborhood something anatomically correct and a delightful color purple which was the color I turned when I found this out. We had us a big discussion on the word “privacy”!
Oh yes! I’m sure a lot of kids got quite the education that day. Reminds me of my son in kindergarten bringing my anatomy and physiology back complete with very accurate pictures to school. His teacher noticed him and other students in a corner giggling over a book. When she saw what it was (yup detailed male and female genitalia) she told him he couldn’t bring that book to school. His teacher told me his reply was “But it’s educational!”
> I laughed about that one! How did you wind up as a single mother? Do you think that the absence of a father in the lives of your children was harmful?
It will never stop blowing my mind that these people think it is appropriate to tell grown adults what they can and can't do, especially when it's things that are WELL within the spectrum of legality
These rules just seem ultimately about control more than anything. If the church isn't dictating every aspect of your life, especially in your formative years, you may start to think for yourself.
I am a transgender guy and I can’t help but wonder- you mentioned in your video the Mormon church’s approach towards queer people, but I wonder what is their attitude towards transgender individuals? Especially nowadays, I hear it has become a topic of conversation in the US. Thank you for your videos :)
It makes me appreciate even more that universities where I live is tuition free, and that they can’t have arbitrary religious doctrine to kick people out for being sexually assaulted, gay or drinking coffee. It’s absolutely wild that such policies is allowed in the same country where people claim it’s the “land of freedom”, sounds like the freedom is that 1% is allowed to oppress others.
@@jl4e23 did I make the impression that I thought people was forced to attend such schools? It was not my intention, though the youtube video we are responding to, clearly describe that if a student enrolls, they are then trapped in the conundrum of bending to the horrible rules and policies, they might not have been initially aware of when enrolled. Or have the very real risk that everything you’ve studied at that university would be worthless, if you find yourself in a position that the university have decided you broke some of the rules by for example being the victim of an assault or drinking as per doctors advised drink coffee for an headache rather then having to go down the road of addictive painkillers. So yea I agree people aren’t forced, but it don’t negate the problem that comes hand in hand with allowing people to infringe others freedom and self determination. It if BY university had a sister university where people seamlessly could transition over to, if they find it impossible or harmful for them follow and keeping all the grades and progress they achieved so far, then this would indeed be a fair case of students choice.
"did I make the impression that I thought people was forced to attend such schools." When you complained about the honor code and then made the "Land of the Free" remark, you did yes.
@@tinman3586For me freedom is not only on the individual to choose or exclude opportunities, the freedom also lies in institutions being prohibited from reducing peoples expressions and choices. For me a land isn’t a forefront of freedom when it willingly allows the few to infringe on others. But sure if you define a land of freedom as in giving any organization and entities the freedom to limit the opportunities of groups of other citizens, the yea I can understand why you interpret what I say as challenging of if a country would be described as free.
@emeliesolli5773 So you don't believe/understand the idea of freedom of association. This idea essentially allows individuals to create private groups/institutions with their own rules and standards for admission without external interference. You are free to dislike those rules and standards and remain outside the institution. Otherwise, if you want to be a part of it, you must adhere to those rules. It's very simple. You can mock the rules all you want, but I take issue with your "Land of the Free" comment and found it a bit insulting.
i know you’re channel has absolutely taken off from the moment you started it but i just want you to know how much i enjoy your speaking style. both in the way you relay information and the way your voice sounds when you speak. your inflections and such. i’m autistic - the way peoples voices hit my ear is rather important for me lol. I’m also an exvangelical so i feel we have similar stories in a way. anywhooo love the content🥰
I got to 24:50 and had to stop watching, because I just. Separation of church and state. SEPARATION of church and state. I'm really angry whenever that's not observed. Not from a Mormon background, just something I've seen on rare occasions in life, and it always infuriates me. A chaplain shouldn't be telling a military commander things, a cop shouldn't be telling a parish priest things, etc. In this case, a campus cop digging into student records and telling a bishop things.
I'm so glad BYU rejected me. I was likely rejected for being a girl applying to computer science; everyone in my ward with drastically worse grades and no community service got in. A regular university was a vital step for me finding my way out of the cult
Alyssa! I have fallen down a rabbit hole of your videos and I love how informative and well done they are! You have to do a video on the relationship between Hawaii and Mormonism, I would love to hear your perspective and how deep it really goes!
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Girrrrrl so proud of you getting sponsorships, especially one for toys so taboo in the church! Mad kudos ❤
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Just an FYI if you don’t already know: That redness after scratching is called dermatographia. I have it too. :)
wow you are going to hell lol
One of my childhood church friends met her girlfriend at BYU when they were roommates and they managed to get their credits transferred to a different university and were finally able to come out together. I cried because I was so happy for them both. I was also really happy to see the other people we grew up with in church being supportive and kind.
I'm glad you had a positive experience with the community- I may not be mormon anymore, but there are definitely those people in it that are genuinely awsome ,supportive and non judgemental .what sucks is those that are judgmental which is all to common in utah specifically.
@@alliedevries9426 I was very fortunate that even as I left the church I have been able to maintain some good relationships with the people I’d met growing up in it. So far they’ve all done well to respect my boundaries around not wanting to come back. I imagine it has a lot to do with us being from a small town in Tennessee as opposed to somewhere with a much larger mormon population.
the best and they were roommates
@@asherthedisaster4724 you’ll never guess what joke they made in their coming out post online lol
Gays can go to BYU, they just can't have sex which is no different than the rest of the students. You can only have sex if you are married which is actually a teaching of the bible not just a Mormon rule. BYU is a great school.
The “I wouldn’t last a day at BYU” button.👇
Me either! I am generally
a reasonable rule following person assuming those rules make logical sense. However, if someone in authority told me, an adult, that I couldn't do or wear something when I know that Jesus himself wouldn't focus on or care about it (i.e. what color my hair is or if I have a beard) then I would most definitely be tempted to rebel. Jesus doesn't care so much about people's outsides as he does about who we are on the inside. It's ridiculous to focus so heavily on little unimportant things when schools need to be focused on educating & supporting young people so that they are ultimately prepared to go out into the real world with ease. I personally don't think that is what God would want us to focus our time on. If I were at BYU I would end up having much more than just a red streak in my hair.
Day? Pft. Wouldn’t last an hour.
@@laurahildebrand7023ikr 💀 give it 15-20 minutes, tops
i’d get kicked out for vaping
I wouldn’t even get in
BYU students not being able to report sexual assaults IS EXACTLY why they're reported to be the safest campus in the country!! Same here in BSU! The amount of police visits, partying, SA, vandalism events that happen here are INSANE, and yet BSU is considered the FOURTH safest campus in the country, RIGHT BELOW BYU!
Yep, cult math is different from regular math.
Boise State?
@@itstricezithats what I’m wondering, because I got texts and emails from campus security EVERY TIME a sexual assault was reported lol
@@itstricezi Their probably taking about Bridgewater State University.
one of my friends from middle school went to byu and had this happen to her and it is INSANE.
EDIT: I was just listening to this at first but when I went back to look at the video I saw that her photo/story was featured in the article at 26:05. She and her husband are (unsurprisingly) no longer a part of the church. When I knew her she was "all-in Mormon". She's very different now-and that's not a bad thing!
I attended a Private Catholic College. We had to take 2 religious studies classes in order to graduate. Other than that you didn’t have to do anything in regard to the religion.
There were crucifixes in every classroom, a chapel on campus that had Sunday mass, and every once in a great while at certain events there was a “saying” that would be read aloud for a a response.
But we had alcohol on campus (the school even has a bar onsite now), you didn’t have to attend mass at all, we had professors that were Rabbis, Buddhist, Agnostic, Atheist. Even my freshman dorm room Residential Directors was a married Lesbian couple with a daughter.
I couldn’t imagine attending a school like BYU with such strict guidelines.
Catholics love them some alcohol lol
Wine is kind of a big deal in catholicism… or anything to do with Jesus basically.
Jesuit run school?
@@JP2GiannaTActually it was Lasallian. We had the Christian Brothers
@@user-nz7zv1il2byes we definitely do
So the cops feed information to bishops to harm rape victims...but bishops are discouraged from telling cops about child molesters.
Ask me why I left.
This. This is why.
This impacted me PERSONALLY.
And yes, BYU is like this. I went there. Not proud about it. Parents made me. I hated it.
Exactly this. My abuser was protected and I didn't tell anyone bc the culture made me feel like it was my fault. When I was a bit older he got caught doing the same thing to someone else. He got a slap on the wrist bc he was "still young" and they "didn't want to ruin his bright future" and the church, even knowing what happened, welcomed him back with open arms after his ridiculously short sentence. So disgusting.
My mom also told me when she was the relief society president that she tried to get the bishop to report a family to CPS and he refused to. She wishes to this day she had done so herself but she didn't want to get in trouble for it so she didn't.
Was it at one time that Coke/Pepsi was on the NO list because they have caffeine like coffee? Then the church wanted to invest in Coke/Pepsi so they changed the rules?
Why is caffeine in Coke ok but caffeine in coffee not ok?
My cousin went to BYU and was coerced into having sex by her boyfriend. She told the bishop she was forced to PUBLICLY apologize to her entire congregation and was barred from going to temple for six months. She did end up getting her degree but unsurprisingly left the church.
Gosh I can’t imagine why she wouldn’t want to stay in such a progressive, forgiving religion? And this is why I don’t do religion - most of the really religious ones are hypocrites and terrible people
Lol nuts.
So interesting because I'm sure Jesus would be more concerned about the poor girl who was afflicted than an apology over the church
#cancelmormenism
No one is forced to publicly “apologize” for what he/she shares with the bishop. Somebody is lying here. Just doesn’t happen.
And the young man got a handshake and a pat on the back?
i have to imagine, with regards to the sexual assault thing, if a guy knows a girl is breaking one of the rules (like tanktops, in his house after 12) hes more likely to sexually assault her because he knows he can get away with it. scary
Men think they own women and their bodies. Like the Taliban, if a women is not covered, they can take them
Yeah it's straight up just a pro-rape policy. It is criminal. It should be punished as a crime.
Alyssa touched on this, but there was actually a huge investigation. BYU police got into big trouble over information sharing, and BYU ended up adopting an amnesty policy for reporting SA after the very embarrassing PR.
Not only were some men emboldened to hold rule breaking over women, merely a false threat was enough, because women were not trusted or empowered in these he said/she said situations.
The Honor Code Office has the sensibilities of the SS and the skewed judgment of Inspector Javier.
@@aBrewster29You are very hopeful. I have doubts that the reality is the same as the lip service.
@@justkiddin84 if you’re talking about the amnesty clause and such, I only trust what can be defended by public policy. The Church has shown at every opportunity the inability to moderate those who easily toss aside ethics in the pursuit of pharisaical extremism.
That said, many of the reforms made are structured in a way that empowers the individual, and that’s a good thing.
But I don’t like the spirit of retrenchment that’s growing on BYU campus these days. It makes me sad. My daughter is a 4.0 student and a genuinely good person. She doesn’t want to go to BYU and I can’t blame her.
Ironic that my hot pink hair would disqualify me from BYU, but not the Baptist Church choir I was in 😂 I had one lady tell me, "I love seeing you up there with your beautiful pink hair just a-singin' your heart out." Bless her hehe.
I love that! Color makes the world beautiful, so I hope you keep making people like that lady smile.
As someone who served in the US military (Albeit it's been a few years since I've been in, so I'm not really current on regs), BYU's grooming regulations are crazy strict for a university so I'm not surprised even other religious institutions are more relaxed. Reminds me more of a conservative private high school than anything. No hair color, must be cut a certain way, etc...
Beard waivers are quite familiar to people in the military, however. The condition where you get bumps and irritation shaving was without a doubt the most common reason for a no shave chit.
@@JedRayner I do! She's(the lady at church) has even put in color requests with me lol. I've done blue, purple, and teal for her haha. She's so sweet and cute.
First off, thank you for your service! Everyone in my family (hubby included) is retired military. Mostly Navy, so I like to say that I come from a long line of seaman(hardee har har). I actually went to a private Christian college prep high school, and their only rule regarding any dress code was "No shirts with profanity". That was it. They encouraged individuality, so places like BYU, Pensacola Christian etc really throw me off with how over the top they are.
As far as the beard thing goes, I can understand it for the military, but not schools or college. Like, what does it matter? The waiver thing (for the schools) are stupid, in my opinion. It's like, it's okay to have a beard for these different reasons, but just because you want one? Oh, heck no! What if an Amish student went there? Not shaving is a part of their religion. And why are Morman women(and other religions) forced or encouraged to keep long hair, but men are required to keep everything short? You've got me thinking too much over here 😂
@@brennalee8709 Everybody I ever served with thought the no-beard rule was the most ridiculous rule ever.
It was one of many "power trip" rules like no hands in pockets and what not...
The way leadership justified it to us (I was in the Army, so I'm not sure about regs nowadays for the other branches either) was that you couldn't seal your gas mask with a beard, but in reality most of us only went to the gas chamber once while we were in... in basic training.
We were all more than okay for shaving for that, if we were in the field, or if we were down range in Iraq or Afghanistan and needed to be able to seal a gas mask. We just wanted to be able to grow one in garrison, but nope.
They even made Sikh guys shave when deployed to a combat zone, which if you believe the gas mask thing doesn't sound that ridiculous, but it always struck me as a bit like asking a muslim woman to take off her hijab. Just kind of weird, and I'm pretty sure most gas masks that were made recently can seal just fine with most beards...
@JedRayner They do make masks that seal with beards but if you seal with a clean face, having a beard later on can cause leaks. Personally, I'd think you'd rather be safe than sorry and just keep a clean face.
its a conservative school
This is why so many people say religion and state should be seperate, religion is personal and an education is a matter of state and should not be threatened like this. Thankyou for bringing awareness to this issue.
So private colleges should be illegal?
@@wtrcoloreyes why?
@@wtrcoloreyes religion has a right to be a part of most aspects of someone's life as long as they felt choose for it to be, I see no good reason why you can't learn about your religion at the same place you go to school, especially if you are learning to become a religious leader like a priest
@@wtrcoloreyes You originally said religious colleges should be illegal, but now you're fine with them as long as they do no other teaching? Also there are plenty of religiously affiliated colleges that are nowhere near as strict as BYU when it comes to student conduct codes (which are a thing at every university). And at the end of the day you shouldn't punish a private college just because it manages to be cheaper than public education, that's more so a fault of the state, and in most cases community college will still be cheaper.
@@joeym5243religous schools should not be allowed
I went to BYU Provo, I am no longer LDS.
1. A friend was fully kicked out after her roommate snitched bc my friend's fiance stayed too late at their apt. My friend was a convert, had survived a catastrophic natural disaster in her hometown and getting kicked out of school meant she couldn't get the scholarships/grants she was awarded. The atmosphere of policing peers and the honor code ruined her life for a little bit. Luckily she is doing fine now.
2. My roommate had to repent after getting help for her eating disorder. Wasn't allowed to take the sacrament because she broke the word of wisdom.
3. I was wearing normal clothes for the early oughts which meant that when I sat down part of my lower back was visible. I was sitting on the floor with my friends in the Wilk and a student my age asked me to cover up. Humiliating.
4. A classmate came out to me minutes after we graduated.
5. Another classmate was kicked out as a senior and didn't get his degree because of marijuana use.
6. I had a friend who was sikh and did legitimately have a beard card but he got dirty looks anyway.
7. I had another roommate who was so sweet and she refused to say "damn" or "hell" even if it was in a hymn or scripture.
8. Another roommate wore a nice dress to a dance but an older chaperone thought it wasn't modest enough so my roommate had to supplement her coverage with paper towels or go home. The paper towels were kind of placed in the bodice to cover up her chest.
I posted this on your last vid but it’s more pertinent here; I had an honor code office experience where I was reported for not being clean shaven enough. At that time I had bad ingrown hairs and folliculitis so I would try and let my skin rest for 2 days in between shaving. Essentially I was told I could get a doctors note (but only from the campus doc) or leave. The campus doc said it wasn’t bad enough for a waiver, so I ended up getting laser hair removal on my own beard so I could stay enrolled. One of my biggest regrets.
That is absolutely awful 😞 I’m so sorry. Crazy the lengths they require people to go, and the fact that you can’t reverse laser hair removal so it was an irreversible choice. I’m so sorry.
That was a piss poor doctor who should have had his medical license revoked!
That is insane
The way they coerce your OWN choices about your OWN body, seriously no bodily autonomy that's fucked up. We see it all the time policing women's reproductive rights but to pull off something so harmful for something as small as a few beard hairs
@@tagussiewell I wouldn’t say those two are the same. The shaving thing only involved the young man. “Reproductive rights” involves the mother and the developing child. But I do agree that the requirement the church put on him was totally out of line.
Does anyone else watch ex Mormon videos just because they're a reliable source of calm 1hr+ videos to have on in the background
Weirdly, yes.
I started watching ex-Mormon content for character research and now I keep watching it while doing my chores because it’s calm and fascinating
Just washed dishes to this. 10/10 ❤
Been doing it for 3 years now 😅
yep!!!
The police disclosing private information to a religious institution is WILD. What about privacy? I mean, many Americans are big on their freedom and rights, but this to me is a major infringement on those. Like a branch of government is disclosing to a private institution?!?!?!
The police are church members there
I don't like that a youtube comment section is where you have to learn this but the US government doesn't give a damn about privacy, freedom, etc. Many government officials policies are informed by which private companies pay them most to do things. Police disclosing private information to anyone really is not uncommon. There is not justice in the justice system.
Edit to add: You're correct in thinking that doing that is wrong. I'm not trying to debate that. I'm just trying to say that despite it being something that shouldn't be done it is not uncommon (nor unsurprising if you look into just how the system works.)
@@0ddOdd I was gonna say the police disclosing private information is pretty much in their job description. They are actually not here to help us unfortunately
@@AlexaSmith Well, if they would do such a thing in my country, they would probably immediatelely be put on 'inactive'
There's a really huge mixing of church and state in Utah, it's not just limited to this.
It honestly didn't strike me as surprising at all to hear that the police in Utah report back to the church. Even then it wouldn't have to be an official report, it could be Officer John gossiping in his congregation about Billy who he picked up on a DUI. Officer John thinks Billy is a good kid and doesn't want to ruin his future, but Sister Sally who overhears the gossip can't resist stirring up the pot and thinks Billy needs to learn his lesson, so she makes a report to BYU...
Mormons LOVE to gossip, and they have a really tight network that enables it. I speak from experience here being the subject of the gossip, and they will totally tattle on you to whatever religious authority they think they can get you called in by.
i was a gay student as notre dame in the 90s. its fascinating how catholicism is intellectually completely open to inquiry, but culturally still very conservative. whereas Mormonism is full fledged anti-intellectual exploration of questions, PLUS even more culturally conservative.
i appreciate how you point out part of queer students suffering may be related to unreported SA - great insight.
My brain didn't even go there. That is truly heartbreaking
Glad to hear you straightened out and got right with god!! Would have a been an awful eternity in a burning pit of fire had you not!
I’m going to a Catholic University right now as a gay student and while it was probably a bit more conservative back in the 90s I do agree. I think post Vatican 2 something I can say about Catholic culture is it’s very curious about basically everything. Note: that kind of intellectualism is baked in since back in the Late Medieval Era it *was* the academia.
Mormonism never had to fade the pressure of being intellectually honest.
It was kind of fun when you added a picture of the BYU ballroom team because my brother is in that picture lmao. When I left the church he told me that he was almost positive that I’d gone to church WAY more leading up to my leaving than he had during most of his time at BYU lol. He was telling my parents recently how there was a kid on the ballroom team that was being INCREDIBLY academically dishonest all the time and my brother wanted to report him (even just to the ballroom coach I think) but he couldn’t report him because then he knew that the kid would report so many people on the ballroom team for a number of honor code things. The tattling culture is INSANE
Utah really is Crusader Kings irl...
Loving the long form content!! I love your speaking cadence , I could listen to you for hours
Thank you so much for the comment and for listening.
yeah i agree!
I agree. I can tell that she would've been a great teacher had she been given a chance to have good students. And not been overworked, like all our teachers are.
She's got a great way of speaking that really captures the attention-perfect for class lectures
I agree!!!
Speaking of BYU Hawaii, can you please address in a future video the foothold that Mormonism has in Hawaii and Pacific islander nations? Also what do you think about the Polynesian cultural center, which I was surprised to learn is run by the LDS church and generates a lot of revenue for the church?
Having served a mission there, the tragic stories of colonialism there are so interesting. The sad thing is that Mormonism co-opted so many cultural traditions and destroyed many others. For instance the Laie temple and PCC is built on one of the most sacred sites for Hawaiians.
I agree with this suggestion!!!
Great idea. My good friend from Thailand was converted by missionaries and came to BYU hawaii for university. His stories are crazy.
No way. I went to the Polynesian Cultural Center. I never would’ve guessed.
Excellent suggestion. I (non-Morman) enjoyed visiting the PCC 20+ years ago, but always have felt uneasy about even that small and inadvertent financial support of a LDS-operated facility.
a girl i went to high school with got a FULL RIDE to the university of michigan. it’s called the HAIL scholarship and it’s a HUGE deal. umich has a 17% acceptance rate, and it’s one of the best schools in the state and big10. she turned it down to go to BYU. we didn’t have many/any other mormons here, so none of us really understood why she’d make that decision. thanks for the info!
Good grief! Poor kid. I hope she has woken up.
WOOF turning down a full ride to arguably the top public university in the country for BYU is so sad
@@Adri_Unsung it's plain stupid.
Buckeye here, but Michigan is really a great university, smh
Boilermaker and Michigan is my least favorite school and I still think that was not a smart decision.
I went to the U of U and could not believe how many BYU students came to party on the weekend because they couldnt stand to be at BYU a minute longer. They were also really sexually frustrated and went to the U on the weekends to hook up. It was insane!
They probably brought fewer sexually transmitted diseases!!
Is U of U a lot more chill and liberal compared to BYU?
@@caitlingill yes! It is a total party school
This sounds like living in an authoritarian hellscape
I went to SFA in East Texas a public university.
Hearing the stuff around BYU makes it feel like North Korea compared to every other college.
I'm from Provo but I've never been Mormon but when was 18-20 and living that hookup lifestyle, there were ALWAYS return missionaries on Grindr ready to go near the BYU campus. I stopped after awhile though because most of them were bad at sex but also just really sad guys who'd feel guilty afterwards.
Hi
That's actually incredibly sad, on multiple levels.
@@JP2GiannaT gross
I remember a story of a girl (during my years at BYU) who went to take a test on the way to the airport for Christmas break. In jeans. She did not have time to go change so she went in the bathroom, took off her jeans and closed up her coat and went to the testing center in her underwear! 😅 lol. The ultimate hypocrisy and really illustrates the insanity of the dress code.
When was this? I went in early 80s and everyone was in jeans.
‘79. Jeans were against dress code at the time.
Keep lying.
The last year I was at the Y about 1073, they allowed women to wear pants on campus. Before they had to wear a skirt. We horney boys were disappointed because we couldn't get those occasional glances to the forbidden zone.
@jerks5216 No, that's a true story. That lady was my mom. It was a year before I was born.
Bishop: are you following the law of chastity?
Me in college: unfortunately.
@Vice_Online7I have no idea, as I am not Mormon; just making a joke.
(When I was in college, the law of chastity followed ME 😐😐)
You obviously don’t pick up things. Marriage is your hall pass for coitus.
@@r5t6y7u8yeah, especially if you are studying to become an engineer. We had 7 girls to more than a hundred guys in our department.
I tapped out at Rule 1. I am a proud member of the "Wouldn't last a day at BYU" club.
My life is so toxic and everything was on church and I have color in my hair, I am gay. It is just a hard time and I am still in the church against my will because of my parents. My parents are soooooooooooo morman that I can even talk to them with out holding my breath. Just so you know I am 14 and I was thinking about going to BYU because all of my family went to BYU but now I think I want to go to a different college. Thank you for making this video it helped me a lot
Please know that you are so young and everything will get better so soon. Things are temporary and you will not be in this stage of your life forever. Stay safe and only share your most inner thoughts with people you KNOW for sure you can trust. Know that you are not alone even if you feel like you are. There are thousands of other children (like me!) going through the same or very similar things. If things ever get really hard, please just remember that in only a few years you'll be at whichever college you choose to go to (or anywhere else that isn't college) having a great time and looking back at this time in your life as only a memory 💓💓💓🤍
I hope that you are safe and can live true to yourself.
I am neither ex Mormon or religious in any sense, but I love your videos! Keep inspiring others!❤
Same! Glad you are out of this cult / church of lies and fake information. I grew up in a very reserved/conservative church, and I am so glad I went away from that after middle school. I am now happy because I make my own rules and act according to my own morals, rules, and guidelines.
I grew up in the church, but left when I was 18 (16 in spirit). Unfortunately, due to trauma from the church and home, I don't remember much of early, early Mormon life. I'd love a video on Primary Class, the 10 year olds that were put in charge of us during activities, the Primary Songs and lessons. I remember being groomed since the age of 6 or 7 to start thinking of being a wife and mother..
Thank you so much for this series. Both my sisters left recently and I've learned so much of what they went through (mission & marriage) through your videos and it has helped me to be informed and supportive through their journey.
Thank you for not holding things against them, we all are moving through this one step at a time
@@China-Clay Aw. Of course. I could never hold something against someone's journey. Especially escaping a cult. We all have been affected in different ways and process them uniquely. They supported and loved me leaving while staying in themselves and now I can support them on their separation journey.
hello, sorry, what do you mean by 16 in spirit? sorry, english is not my first language haha
@@deliahhh i think she means she officially left at 18 but in her heart/soul/mind, she had already deconverted/left/stopped believing the church at 16
@@elie.bb15 You are 100% correct! Thank you!!
i went on two dates with a girl while at byu idaho about two years ago. i wasn't fully deconstructed yet but i didn't want to let the church take that experience away from me so to hell with the rules. when my next ecclesiastical endorsement came around, i simply lied to the bishop's face to be able to finish my semester. also, in some ways i think as long as you're not being blatantly romantic, gay dates are easy to get away with because you could just be friends. how would anyone know? also they are allowed to be in your bedroom and things when the opposite sex can't. anyway shoutout to all the queer byu students keeping it on the dl. true warriors
Why be a part of a religion that doesnt want you?
@@sunnydlite-t8b my man, people stay because leaving a religion would mean leaving a 4yr degree you worked hard for.
@@sunnydlite-t8b fear, loss of support, loss of family, fear of reprisal against family members, fear of family being unable to support itself after you left... there are dozens of reasons.
Its really not that simple, think for a bit@sunnydlite-t8b
My husband and I left the church in the year 2000. I spent a total of 18 yrs in it, my husband was in it since age 13. Around 8 years in, I got disenchanted due to their refusal to give and sort of help or support when my husband took ill and lost his job. I had to support us and had 2 young children at the time. I was looked down on for having a career. I'd already had one by age 27, when I joined. What was I supposed to do, lose our home and everything? They had no problem continuing to ask for time and money, which we didn't have. My husband recovered, but the damage was done. I read on the Internet about other people encountering similar treatment. I wanted to leave, but the kids were young and my husband remained a believer. I'd seen them break up other peoples marriages when one partner either wasn't a member or had left. I waited 10 years until he finally saw the light. They are a cult, they brainwash people, and they are toxic. If you don't already have problems, they'll make some for you. By the way, the first thing I bought after leaving was a coffee machine.
Ex-Mormon here, but my dad is currently the president at our branch. I was wondering why Mormons are so obsessed with genealogy? As a Native American, I feel like they are so invasive here on the reservation and always trying to get to know our ancestors. I understand wanting to learn about our culture, but like I said they are invasive about it.
i probably know less than you (/gen) but isnt it so they can do baptism of the dead?
@@s1eepysnai1yes for sure. The current elder missionaries here are going to ask our tribe to build like an ‘archive place’ to hold all of our ancestors records. They’re willing to do it for free, but I feel like they are going to ask to do baptisms for the dead of our ancestors. I am weirded out 🫢
Very common cult behavior
Oh that's super creepy that they show up on a reservation and start inquiring into everyone's genealogy. How could they not realize how weird that is.
@@kaitsalinas7155they won't ask to do them, they will take those records without telling anyone and they will use them for baptisms. It's incredibly disrespectful and disgusting that they do this without anyone's consent, and it is often racially and religiously targeted towards people who are obviously not going to consent to that sort of thing because of their culture or spiritual beliefs.
Walked out on my mission at MTC and went to the Air Force recruiter in Provo as otherwise homeless. Best decision I ever made. 4 older siblings all BYU grads. Soooo glad I missed it. Thanks so much for making me feel normal.
Wish I'd been smart enough to join the Army instead of the mission field when I had the chance. Yeah it could have killed me with Iraq and Afghanistan going on but at least I'd get the GI bill instead of forking over $10K to walk around like an idiot salesman in Latin America for 2 years.🎉
What was the reaction at the MTC when you were like, "Actually, nope. No, thanks, I'm out, bye!"? That can't be something that happens often.
I wish I had that courage. I knew I didn't want to be there, but went anyway because of how much pressure there was. I knew from a really young age I didn't want to do it, and even now I still think going was the worst decision I ever have made in my life.
Traded one cult for an arguably much better one 🤣 Although, since it's the Air Force, it was probably more like a gigantic corporation in comparison to other branches like the Army or Marines.
Damn. That is genius!! Why did I not think of that?!
ALSO! If you get reported whether true or false, they notify your professors so they will kick you out of class until you meet with honor code!! My roomate failed out of college bc she was falsely accused of being pregnant and wouldnt go in…
Why would she get in trouble for being pregnant?
@@quirkyblackenby bc its against honor code to have sex so being pregnant means she had sex😂😂👍🏻
That's insane! She wasn't even pregnant
@@lizzybeary yep! People know how to work the system for sure!
That's disgusting.
I'm curious who your roommate annoyed enough to do that to
It's funny to hear you say "it's not a hickey" - to me, it speaks to how your Mormon upbringing still holds some importance in your subconscious, as why should you care if we think it's a hickey? We all bear scars from our childhoods, and it's awesome to see how far you've come from the repressive expectations of your youth. Keep it up! :)
I was a super religious Catholic girl who seriously considered going to BYU, felt that my faith’s Universities weren’t strict enough. Came out as Gay this year, glad my parents dissuaded me.
The Honor Code reporting big time reminds me of Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad from "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix". Mood.
It's a bit like GDR state security "stasi". Teachers would ask their little students what programme they watched as kids, if it was west German, parents were in trouble. Ppl would spy on their own spouses, parents, friends, family etc. Your best friend might have been the one to bug your apartment and got you into prison.
@@Freaky0NinaYea this happened during the Cultural Revolution in China too. Extreme examples would be during Stalin's reign and while Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were in power. They all used "Gestapo" tactics. I wonder how the mormon church views 1984.
One reason I had such a visceral reaction to the character when the book came out. Hit too close to home.
Wouldn't surprise me if JR suddenly came out as Mormon ngl
It's a practice as old as strict social rules. I'm certain the Zoroastrians were all pointing fingers too.
So I was born and raised in Layton Utah. I was excluded from ALOT of friends because my family was not LDS. It brought me alot of anxiety depression and confusion. I tried to join the church but the Bishop of our ward would not let me because the rest of my family was not LDS. My childhood sucked 😢😢
Not trying to invalidate you, being excluded sucks. However you dodged a bullet
The Mormon church is so hyper controlling that not being allowed to join to the Nth degree with the LDS was the best thing you had. This is because in the real Holy Bible, it says that by grace we are saved through faith lest man should boast. Mormons decided that we are saved through works which is a lie and not in the true Holy Bible. I would read the Christian non-Mormon Bible for yourself. Best Wishes!
@@eboni1346there's definitely some truth to that but it is ironic that the church does not see how badly that reflects on them
Cult
Nope it didn’t really-it saved you from being in an abusive cult, hon.
I will grant you I am 50 years past my time at BYU, BUT I did graduate from BYU. I know that I went to church every week I was there but I don't remember one single time I went to church. After I graduated I "phased" out of the the church. It served me well and when it didn't anymore I left. No one seemed to care so as far as I know I'm still on the church rolls - haven't been excommunicated that I know of. Anyway, I've been enjoying your content very much and I'm very grateful my father wouldn't LET me go on a mission after listening to your temple experiences. I appreciate your perspective!
You might want to send them the letter to remove you from the roles. They are using your name to make money by inflating their numbers.✌️
@@justkiddin84 Never thought of that. Hmmm - not sure I want to disturb the hornets' nest!
>
I'm surprised they didn't bug you about tithing.
On another note, my dad was excommunicated after getting kicked out of BYU in the early 70's. He broke EVERY RULE & didn't try to hide it. He embodied sex, drugs, & rock and roll starting in high school. Not sure how he got in from the start. I'm glad he got clean before I was born, but wish he'd never gotten baptized again when I was 5.
Thank you for sharing about sexual assault. My daughter was sexually assaulted in 2022 and she went to our Bishop and nothing was done about it. The police didn't even do anything about it. Therefore we haven't been back since then.
I hope your daughter is doing better these days. You deserved better.
I was booted out of Ricks college for staying out past the curfew, but many of the other students who I saw breaking curfew didn't get any consequence. It was wierd too because my advisor said that I was entitled to a meeting to decide whether I could stay or not, but that if I lost then I wouldn't be refunded any of my tuition (as opposed to just walking away). I chose to do the meeting because I wanted to stay, and at the beginning of the meeting he told the group of people there who were to hear my case that it was only a formality because I had requested it, but that I would be let go. I was so shaken I didn't realize it would have been best to leave right then and there, but I asked the group to please let me stay, and was then ushered out of the room. A few minutes later the advisor said I'd been kicked out of the school, and laughed, saying that was the fastest decision he'd ever seen. I felt so humiliated and tricked. I went home and could never understand why I wasn't just given a warning for breaking curfew, especially since so many other students had done the same. I didn't realize such a quick expulsion from the school would happen over one rule break, one time, without any kind of probation period. I was pretty young and not perfect, but I had excellent grades, a strong testimony and wanted to complete my education there. I lost all my tuition money and returned home a disgrace.
In addition to this, the night before I left for home, I found an envelope on my bed from my roomates. Inside was a hateful letter about how I was a sinner and going to hell, because I had stayed out past curfew with my boyfriend, and they saw me skip the sacrament, so assumed I had done something very wrong. I didn't understand how going to a college that was supposed to be managed by the church I loved would be such a horrible experience.
Wow! That sounds like such a terrible experience! I’m sorry that happened to you! 😢
I straight up am so confused. WTF is up with universities in the states? Are these just the religious ones? Cops on campus? CURFEWS????? The university I go to in Canada has NONE of this shit and if they tried to implement any of it I'd be protesting at the deans office every day.
@@swagmundfreud666It’s just the religious ones.
I hope you left the church that clearly didn’t love you. You’re better off without it.
@@NoelleTakestheSky I did ☺️
ok the bellesa sponsorship is iconic
My spouse is very fair with dark hair - they carried an electric razor in their backpack to be shaving IN THE LINE because they would be sent away regularly.
My SIL was reported by a nightmare roommate a couple of weeks before her wedding.
And I have many more from friends who went to each campus- including the failed eastcoast mormon College.
Yea if a young man is darker haired and fair skinned then the facial hair would be more noticeable as it grows back
I worked in a law office in eastern Utah in the late 70's and our clientele was mainlyvyoung women 20-25 years old' at least two kids, and their husband decided he didn't want to be married, found someone else, etc. and they were left with no means of support and limited education.
I went to a fundamentalist baptist college and it was very similar. It’s wild to me how we acknowledged that Mormons were in a cult but couldn’t see that we were exactly the same
Honestly their stupidest rule is no beards. My uncle is a professor at BYU and has genuinely thought about quitting to get his beard back 😭
As an Army vet, I've had some serious and not-no-serious conversations with guys back in the day who considered not re-enlisting because they wanted to grow a beard. All the white guys in my unit, including me, looked like a bunch of burnt, pasty weirdos walking around clean shaven in Iraq.
BYU's beard regulations are eerily reminiscent of the Army's grooming regs- especially the beard waivers for shaving bumps and irritation, and religious exemptions for Sikh guys.
@JedRayner Supposedly, there are/were lots of church leaders who were Vietnam-era military veterans and they copy-pasted some US Military regs to LDS Mission rules.
@@tinman3586 that makes weirdly a lot of sense!
I knew someone in Utah who went to BYU and was in a BYU Studios film set in the era of Joseph Smith. Because of this, he had a beard growing while he was working on the film. He had to wear a huge sign around his neck explaining that he was allowed to have the beard. He was harassed so much by both professors and students for his beard (even thought it was FOR the Church and he had PERMISSION to do so) that he ended up giving up the entire film and just shaving because it was too much.
@@tinman3586 Makes perfect sense.
I'm from Missouri, have some Mormon friends and acquaintances, and they all have a very specific understanding of the causes of the Mormon Missouri war/conflict that led to the eventual expulsion of Mormons from Missouri in the 1830s. A lot of what I hear is that it was Missourians hating Mormon abolitionism, which doesn't track with what I've read about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's writings about slavery and Black people in general. Could you do a video about Mormon approaches to the conflict in Missouri and what else might have been going on with how Mormons and non-Mormons in Missouri were interacting with each other? I love your channel!
Yeah I’d love to see more videos on church history
This would make an excellent video. Probably more something up the alley of the Mormon Podcast group but who knows, Alyssa may actually have some expertise in this arena.
It's interesting that's the take of mormons in Missouri, since I was brought up as mormon in Utah, they teach it's two fold reasons, the other people living in Missouri worried about losing political power in the state to the growing mormon population, and satan influencing the unrighteous to try to destroy the "true church" in its infancy, and destroying the "restored gospel"
I'd have to look into it more, but I think Joseph Smith was much more permissive to black members than Brigham Young was. For example, Joseph Smith permitted black converts and allowed them to be ordained as priests, an action with Brigham Young undid when he took over as leader of the church.
But then again I do take that with a grain of salt since they also claim that mormons in Utah sided with the north in the civil war, yet they also allowed for slavery in the territory, and Brigham Young himself owned several slaves.
One thing I’ve always wondered is How Mormonism works outside the US, considering it’s very America-centric in nature?
I have wondered about this as well.
I live near a Mormon church here in Germany, literally less than a 10 minute walk away from my apartment and I used to live even closer, and it's definitely strange. Many people here don't even really seem to know what the fuck Mormons even are even though they live right next to them. The missionaries are treated as weird aliens basically, not unfriendly but as I live in a part of the country where being an atheist is the majority you can probably imagine how open to listening to that stuff the average person is. People won't be unkind though and I've seen people help the missionaries when they see them struggle with every day stuff. I've done the same because damn those are 18 year olds who are suddenly in a foreign country not allowed to really speak their native language and I'm obviously bilingual. If you approach them speaking English they're allowed to speak it as well. Very easy to spot especially during the warmer months because nobody dresses like them here. 😂
@@DieAlteistwiederda Czech here. Compared with Mormons, CDU/CSU is a poster symbol of liberalism and open-mindedness. I even knew of a "Christian FKK group" in the 1990s, not kidding. A group of families and all kinds of people in Strausberg (the one by Berlin).
Brazilian here! I live next to a mormon church and there are a lot of foreign missionaries around here. Brazillians normally find them quite annoying because of the intense preach or feel pity for them, because a lot of them are young and seem to be very naive in such a big city like São Paulo. In the religious point of view, mormons don’t really make sense to us.
i’m from texas but i knew a girl who was Mormon and when we were freshmans in high school she was questioning her faith. im a lesbian and she was asking me how i knew i was gay lol, she told me she thought she was bi. during our sophomore year she made a public apology on her social media saying she was going back to the faith (it was like an essay). and if i remember correctly she also said that she was straight and wasn’t bi anymore. by the time we were getting close to graduating she was back to being a full Mormon and was going to BYU Idaho and deleted all her social media. i hope she’s doing well now and is living her most authentic life.
Thanks Alyssa,
As an adult child of a Mormon, emeritus BYU professor, I observe that the Church standards that he (and his Mormon peers on faculty )upheld throughout career employment were more extortionary than the
standards for BYU students can possibly be, whether they are Mormons or not.
Without fail , my father paid a full 10% tithe on his salary, which he drew from the Lord’s university ,for the privilege of being on His faculty. In fact, had my father deviated from Church standards he would have risked his job, not just credits toward a Bachelor’s degree.
This also meant that my parents marriage, family life, religious views, as well as professional and secular conduct , and any outside acheivements including political activitites were up for surveillance. He/ we lived as a family in the crucible of this , his extenuated probation, ( the least of which was academic). Every move made by any one in our family had the potential for ruining my world renowned father’s image in the eyes of his small-town , parochial , all-governing employer’s.
The pressure made me a skeptic early on. But there is no room for free thought in a Mormon, BYU professor’s home. On campus this translates to learning is by rote , and teaching is by rote.In the first place , an education ought to teach a person how to think for himself. BYU is the last place to claim an honest one by this definition.
im sorry but the "i gave eternal life for coffee" still gets me everytime lmao
In my denomination (Lutheran), coffee is necessary for eternal life!
AMEN!@@BritaMooreKutz
Who would want to live forever with no coffee anyhow?
@@BritaMooreKutzI remember free coffee being a big selling point of attending church 😂
I hate coffee, can't stand the smell of either. Makes me slightly nauseous. But I ❤️LOVE❤️ Earl Gray and Lady Gray tea. So I wouldn't make it at BYU either. But I wouldn't even try. I found out about cults a long time ago. But I'm old so there's that.
BYU - Idaho (formerly Ricks College) is a more strict campus than the Provo campus. They have strict rules for clothing. Even gym attire forbids rider pants for women. There are curfews and restrictions on men in women's dorms.
Half of my highschool got into byu and i even asked a girl in my class senior year if she really believed in Mormonism and she said “not really but my parents are paying for it” 😀
I attended Ricks '97-00, absolutely regret that decision. Being an adult I alwaye felt like I was not to be trusted. Living off campus in approved housing, there was always the 10pm girl check, check every bedroom, shave everyday and absolutely assimilate every past of my life to feel like I was privledged to attend.
Well you brought up that "For stength of the youth" BS so now I can comment. My Family decided to relocate to Utah where my moms family was based from the East Coast shortly after Hinckley wrote that pile of garbage.
So here I am, a 15 year old male Goth kid with jet black hair past my shoulders, sideburns that went below my ears, seven ear piercings, two eyebrow piercings and a pierced tongue(my parents were very Liberal and cool with piercings), not to mention wearing several pieces of jewelry every day, all blqck clothing including and esspecially bamd tshirts, showing up for High School in Utah County.
Every single day was a verbal fight that eventually escalated into physical fights. First the Teachers: They hated it and numerous Teachers attempted to force the FSY rules on me. I was kicked out of one class every week due to my refusal to comply, even after my father went to the school and shouted down the Principle that we aren't Mormon, it is a public school funded by taxpayers, that it is illegal to force religion in public school and that they need to stop trying to force their religion down my throat. Of course nothing was done and the Principle and Teachers tried the typical Peter Penishood gaslighting game about how it is my fault and accusing my parents of being bad parents.
The students? Nonstop verbal abuse that quickly escalated into full on hate speech. I honestly got a lot of attention from females due to the fact I was so different from all the Ambercrombie Bro's they grew up around. This caused the Moronic Priesthoods to lose their 💩 and I got to enjoy being called a f--got all day everyday.
Reporting it to the Moronic Priesthoods running the school just resulted in more gaslighting and repeatedly being told "if you didnt look like a NY Prostitute they wouldnt be calling you those names. Maybe it is time to have some introspection and present yourself as a respectable young man."
Weird and mesed up how all that crap still sits there in my mind over two decades later.
"To clear the first date hurdle and get to the second date. You're getting *really* serious." That's insane.
You have no time to get to know the other person!
Wow
Similar if not the same in religious Jewish circles.
Me, an agnostic, purple-haired, coffee-drinking lesbian (married to another woman) who swears often immediately disqualifying myself from being able to attend BYU 🤣
Repent.
That makes you super qualified for UC Berkley, a college for everyone!
@@kevinmcdonald951then you should repent about being born but whatever right?
I’m a spiritual person but definitely not a religious person. I think if all people could live by the golden rule “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, the world would be a much better place.
Don’t feel bad, I wouldn’t be eligible to work there either as a bawdy redneck lesbian. Think “Teeter” from Yellowstone, but only slightly more refined and with a bachelor and master’s degrees.
I also have no idea how they’re skirting federal guidelines around TIX by effectively punishing complainants who report assaults and the respondents might get nothing.
I graduated from Baylor, which is a private Baptist university. Students are not required to be religious or a particular religion and faculty/staff are not required to be from a specific denomination or faith tradition. No dress codes. The campus is a dry campus, but the student life was great and the academics are extremely high-quality. I had a wonderful experience and love the culture there.
That’s because your white, cisgender, and heterosexual.
My best friend goes to Baylor and she loves it there.
Professors are required to be Christian, though...right?
@@thespia Christian of any denomination or Jewish I believe. And faith affiliation is self-reported, so faculty vary wildly in how much they express their faith.
@@epicemmalee2000 Interesting...You'd think they would at least be Christian. I know back in the 90s, I believe, Baylor had a big controversy because they had a Mormon there teaching religion classes.
As someone who is currently attending a Catholic university, the questions about being gung ho about everything in the religion is so bizarre to me. My school is 60/40 Catholic to non catholic, and the worst thing the student handbook enforces is no political signs of any kind in windows of dormrooms and no boys in the girls' halls overnight.
Can girls go in boys halls?
I went to BYU for financial reasons.
I had to wear a wig in my ID picture because they told me my hair was not dress code appropriate. 😂
Yayy I'm so happy for you being sponsored!! I absolutely love your videos and learning about the LDS universe from your experiences, as someone who has never been a member but is low-key obsessed with mormonism hahahahah keep up with the good work!
It is wonderful to see your channel nearing the 100k mark. I love your content, even though I have never been Mormon.
I'm Irish. Growing up, my mother told us how the country was overrun with Mormon Missionaries in her youth, eager to sign up new members. They had some real success.
The state brought an end to the "pedalling of religion in the streets". In our last cencus, only 1100 people were registered as Mormon, including children. Out of a national population nearing 5 million, that is a drop in the ocean.
The Mormon Church is no longer permitted to treat women as second class citizens. In fact Ireland is celebrated for it's promotion of women in industry, commerce and education.
There's a IG account of a nice Irish Mormon boy married to an American girl also Mormon and they live in Spain..being Irish myself, I was shocked to see a nice Irish boy Mormon....I thought we Irish was smarter then that....but they do have 2 really cute kids.
What restriction did the state impose - just prohibiting street witnessing? Presumably they could still go door-to-door like Jehovah's Witnesses?
@@margaretkinnaman8585And they are showing those kids online? Oh no. No.
Hi Alyssa, I really enjoy your videos. I grew up southern Baptist but was looking for a better fit in my 20s so, I searched out many religions. A Mormon coworker took me to her church a few times, gave me the books to read and took me to the Hill Cumorah Pageant... since we lived so close, in Syracuse. As a theater kid and adult, I could appreciate the production... it was spectacular but, as a black woman i did notice the homogeneous crowd. Lol I learned a few things that I actually found useful, ie food saving, but found none of the religions were for me. It is so nice to hear the real things you don't get told. Could you do a video about the Pageant?
So glad you jumped the shark by not falling for Mormon manipulation. When we moved to Utah, my six year old son asked me, "Mommy are there any black people in Utah?" That little boy noticed it almost immediately.
I got honor coded MAJORLY at BYU-H compared to the white girls on campus. Even my haole roommates were astonished when I’d get dress coded over them 🥲 being a dark brown curvy Hawaiian girl and mormon is the most over-sexualized thing I’ve experienced.
I also told my Tongan ward bishop I broke the law of chastity while attempting to go through my “repentance process,” and he was LIVID. Im sure if I were his own kid he woulda whooped my ass. I left BYU-H after one semester of being there and don’t regret it. I DO regret wasting my time and life to the mormon church. I love watching your videos. It really provides some sort of closure to my childhood. So MAHALO for these
I can’t imagine what it’s like not showing affection to someone you care about and love. Imagine the damage that does to your mental health.
I’ve never been Mormon but banning coffee? That right there is the only reason I need to never be Mormon. My morning coffee is truly a cup of joy.
Weird, huh? AND tea. And it's not the caffeine, because Mormons drink plenty of Pepsi.
Personally I don’t drink coffee (it makes me jittery and I’m not a fan of that 😂) but I think that’s just ridiculous. There are plenty of people who need caffeine to function and I don’t agree with an entire religion banning it.
@@DanielaBodoh yeah. I get jittery a bit. I hate that feeling so I only drink 2 cups max in the morning. But I actually can’t wait for that first cup. I’m not kidding when I say it brings me joy. It might be the ritual of it.
@@Zeett09My dad is the same way, he’s basically a coffee enthusiast 😂
@@DanielaBodoh They don't ban caffeine, per say. I'm not sure that caffeine was really known about in the 1840s when the "Word of Wisdom" was written. What is forbidden is coffee, tea, and alcohol. Lots of Mormons drink soft drinks (like soda) that has caffeine. They also will drink herbal tea. I'm not sure what it is about coffee that Joseph Smith was upset about.
I knew a badass Army soldier and his badass army soldier wife. He went to BYU to take an ROTC posting. He was not happy about this assignment. He had to follow the honor code rules- no coffee drinking, no alcohol. What an asinine rule for a military person to be asked to follow. I don’t know if BYU still has a program, I guess they do because of the government money it brings in. He was told by a BYU administrator/professor to just lie about the coffee and alcohol. Ironic that BYU, in order to get the qualified ROTC instructors who take their Officer, military oaths seriously encourage those people to be dishonest in order to keep the program there.
That’s ridiculous BYU rules are nothing compared to the service academies. Except for the coffee….
Sounds about right for BYU. I was one kicked off BYU Campus as an independent contractor about 20 years ago for not following the Taliban code. Like I told them: I don't work for you, I work for a contractor doing work here and I am not beholden to your rules. My violation? Facial hair.
This was really helpful to understand just how horrible it was for Adam Paul Steed to have Jodi mess with his BYU enrollment. I didn't realize just how precarious your spot in the program is and how much power bishops have over people's future 😢
Mormonism is morally bankrupt and I hope Adam and the other victims of this cult find healing.
I was on the Standards Committee at BYU-I. It's insane. Stayed too long in a woman's apartment and now you're getting kicked out? Hair too long when you try to take a test at the testing center? Wearing "revealing" clothing on campus? Go to another school, folks.
you’re SUCH a good speaker and this was so informative, thank u as always for sharing ur experiences 🍓
Alyssa thank you for sharing your experiences and so much info about the church in such an honest and straight up way! I grew up mormon and left in 2016 at age 26. Still processing my deconstruction and religious trauma. Your videos are so helpful and validating!!!
I was raised in a very strict LDS family in CA and begged to go to BYU but luckily my parents made the decision to have me stay in CA and go to a state school. I'm soooo glad now that I was able to go to a public university and get away from the strict teachings of the church. I was so immersed in the cult of the LDS church that I don't think I would have had the gumption to leave. I'm 54 years old now and still dealing with the trauma of being raised in such a puritanical society.
I'm sorry for the trauma you're dealing with. Congrats on getting out!!
I went to BYU and graduated in 1999. I also served a mission in Chile. I still have nightmares where I am somehow back at BYU or in Chile. I was "squeaky clean" as well. I went to church less and less until I was 30 because I would have anxiety attacks from going. It took me afew years after that to completely detox. I am still horrified by the blatant homophobia I learned growing up. Watching this video and seeing everything she pointed out certainly brought back some bad memories, but also let me see all the tactics that were used to brainwash me. It makes it a little easier to forgive my younger self.
I really appreciate your videos and view point on parts of the religion that is not shared opening with active members. It’s really helped me understand and heal. I had a very close friend since elementary school she was Mormon, she went away to BYU and then was taking a year off for her mission but the week before she was supposed to leave she passed. A week later I received a letter from her, she was so scared of the church because she was a queer and couldn’t imagine any other way that she could leave.
I am so very sorry for your loss of your friend. And for the loss to the rest of us of her light in the world. 💔For those who believe in a Final Judgement, do they ever believe there will be accountability for the results of their actions?
Went on vacation a couple years ago to Wyoming and we saw a guy at a bar named Kalyn Beasley and he played a hilarious song called “Goodbye BYU”, I still listen to it time from time
The testing center is a thing in other universities but it’s completely different to how you discribed it at byu, typically you only go there if you need to retake a test, a final for a class or if you have certain accommodations such as extra time on tests, the use of text to speech software, or other medical conditions or medical disorders that prevent you from taking a test in class
I attended BYU from 2017 to 2021 as a non-member and while I agree with just about everything in the video (fuck BYU), I did not have to answer all the questions on the big list of ecclesiastical endorsement questions. If I remember correctly, all they really cared about was wether I was following the word of wisdom (no drinking/smoking) and the law of chastity (no sex). I did have to deal with their door-to-door salesmen (missionaries) so I had to put up with other shit than church members.
Absolutely no judgement, but I’m curious what led you to the decision to go there despite not being Mormon?
@@Langwidere903 It was a backup school when I was applying to colleges, and all the others on my list did not accept me. Also I didn't really know what I was getting into, I had family that went there so I was like why not? 🤷♂
@@ethanhurst8116so did you think it was just a regular type of school? If you don’t mind me asking, what did you get your degree for?
I guess you figured out the why not part after you got there. I mean college is hard enough as it is, but imagine adding in people around you telling on you for the least little thing like drinking that beverage of damnation - coffee - or much worst being attacked and being accused that it was all your fault because you’d been out too late or a guy could see your shoulders or whatever other insane things they like to blame on women. And it sounds like you wouldn’t be able to transfer your credits earned to another university.
@@annapruitt5546 I knew it was a religious school, and I had attended Catholic schools all my life so I figured it wouldn't have been much different (it's way more strict than any Catholic school I attended). I studied comp sci, and at least at the time, the comp sci program at BYU was pretty solid.
I went to BYU my freshman year (1989-1990) and one of the many things that rubbed me the wrong way was the testing center. I could not understand how or why it was there and why I wasn't to be trusted to be honest. I remember having to sign the Honor Code pledge thing and then the institution basically said we know you are really a liar and a cheater that can't be trusted so we are going to look over your shoulder while you take your tests. I remember being so confused upon being told that we had to go to this place to take our tests and it was so degrading and that was maybe one of the first big things that told me this place wasn't for me. It just made no sense. We were all told how special we were and how we were chosen to be there for our righteousness; and then we were treated like criminals who couldn't be trusted.
Almost all universities have testing centers. I went to a public university in Florida and we had one.
@@MysticOceanDollies Sure, but do most universities claim to have the most righteous, chosen youth on the planet attending Jesus' university? It doesn't make sense to be told day in and day out how wonderful, pure and chosen by God you are and also you can't be left alone, ever, because you will touch yourself and you can't be trusted to take a test without cheating. The thought of cheating on a test never entered my mind until I had to go to a testing center and I thought to myself that they were expecting me to cheat and that maybe most of my classmates were cheating.
I loved the testing center, in theory. It made it so easy for testing.
@@bgroesserI think you may have missed the point here. To say you enjoyed whatever testing center you used leads me to believe that you were not being sent there punitively and that you likely were treated as a trustworthy person. Which was not this poster’s experience. Hopefully that clears things up.
It's almost like some people have cheated in the past and they can't trust people to not cheat.
Maybe you've done this already but a video about the views of the Mormon church around mental health and disabilities (physical and not)
Thanks ahead of time! Love your content! ❤
What a great podcast! I've got the best old-school honor code horror stories. First off. the get one thing straight, it's Ricks College, the high school of the Lard(tm). BYU was Berkley compared to Ricks! I was at Ricks when BYU announced they now allowed shorts. Ricks made it crystal clear that did not apply to Ricks. You hit all of the good points. I did studt abroad and the second the plane door opened, the shaving stopped. I'd love to share the good stories with you. The big difference between Ricks and BYU was, Ricks is a small place, they can enforce the honor code anywhere. Whereas at BYU, they are too big to enforce anywhere, so they enforce it at strategic points (see testing center).
Thank you for being so open and sharing your experience! I grew up in the church and sometimes I consider returning sometimes but not for the right reasons and these videos really help me!
I Love these videos! I was raised Mormon but got out before doing a mission or going to BYU, so this is sort of like a morbid look into the path my life could have taken 💀💀💀 So thank you for making these, they are excellent and very informative!
I was approached by two Morman guys yesterday (for the second time ever in Ireland) after watching all your stuff lately and I was like … they’re watching me!
Your comment about feeling anxious walking by the Honor Code office despite being extremely straight-edge resonated with me. I've never been in a strict religious environment like Mormonism (I'm part of a liberal Christian denomination), but I'm pretty straight-edge by my own choices. Yet I still worry about having something dug up about me and destroying my life. I can only imagine that feeling amped up when literal college degrees are on the line. I'm glad you got out and hope you're finding freedom to make choices that resonate with who you are!
My brother attended BYU Idaho for a time, but was coming to terms with being gay at the same time. He ultimately dropped out and transferred to a different school because he realized it was only a matter of time before he was kicked out. He's now happily married to his husband and living a much better life outside the church. I know not all LGBTQ kids attending BYU are so lucky, however...
I'd be curious to see you cover some of the movies the church has released and have tried to get some mainstream success with, such as God's Army, the Saturday's Warrior film adaptation, Saratov Approach, etc.
In the late 1960’s there was a bar in Orem that the police were told not to go to because members of the football team hung out. There was also an incident where several members of the team beat up a person who pissed them off, and it was reported to the police and the police literally refused to file a report. So it shows who the police really cared about!
I was raised Christian and though my experience was MUCH less strict and culty, it left me with religious trauma that led me to losing my faith at 13 and never looking back. Thank you for doing what you do and taking your pain and turning it into something that can help people get though something that is so difficult in a way that some people could never understand. All the love for you.
I cannot overstate how much I love and how wonderfully subversive it is that you did that sponsorship read. Good for you.
Did not see you partnering with Bellesa coming 😂 That's so awesome! I'm honestly so proud of you for that!
I love that we can talk about whatever we need to here. Thank you for having a safe space for us former cult kids to discuss what we need to discuss. ❤
Its so easy to listen to you. I can put these videos on while i play a game or clean and not tune out at any point. There are some channels that put out content i want to listen to but the way they speak makes it all almost run together and i realize at some point I've got no clue what they've been saying. But with you i follow along the whole way =]
Oh and I’ve a funny story about self love toys. As a single mom of 2 school age children, I had time for working for 40-60 hours/week, getting the kids to and from school and spending quality time doing things with my kids and dogs on whatever time I had available, hence dating didn’t happen and let’s face it, a girl gotta have at least self love! Now one of the blessings and curses was the fact that if something was missing in the house, my 9 year old daughter could find it. This also means that she loved to snoop! Well I found out from one of the older children that she’d been showing every single child in our neighborhood something anatomically correct and a delightful color purple which was the color I turned when I found this out. We had us a big discussion on the word “privacy”!
Oh no! 😂 😱
Oh yes! I’m sure a lot of kids got quite the education that day. Reminds me of my son in kindergarten bringing my anatomy and physiology back complete with very accurate pictures to school. His teacher noticed him and other students in a corner giggling over a book. When she saw what it was (yup detailed male and female genitalia) she told him he couldn’t bring that book to school. His teacher told me his reply was “But it’s educational!”
At least she didn't bring it to school for show and tell?
>
I laughed about that one!
How did you wind up as a single mother? Do you think that the absence of a father in the lives of your children was harmful?
It will never stop blowing my mind that these people think it is appropriate to tell grown adults what they can and can't do, especially when it's things that are WELL within the spectrum of legality
These rules just seem ultimately about control more than anything. If the church isn't dictating every aspect of your life, especially in your formative years, you may start to think for yourself.
I am a transgender guy and I can’t help but wonder- you mentioned in your video the Mormon church’s approach towards queer people, but I wonder what is their attitude towards transgender individuals? Especially nowadays, I hear it has become a topic of conversation in the US. Thank you for your videos :)
40:56 Genuine question: How are they allowed to enforce these insane rules? Like I couldn't even attend because my facial hair grows too fast
It makes me appreciate even more that universities where I live is tuition free, and that they can’t have arbitrary religious doctrine to kick people out for being sexually assaulted, gay or drinking coffee.
It’s absolutely wild that such policies is allowed in the same country where people claim it’s the “land of freedom”, sounds like the freedom is that 1% is allowed to oppress others.
I am not LDS, but people make a choice to attend there, not forced.
@@jl4e23 did I make the impression that I thought people was forced to attend such schools?
It was not my intention, though the youtube video we are responding to, clearly describe that if a student enrolls, they are then trapped in the conundrum of bending to the horrible rules and policies, they might not have been initially aware of when enrolled. Or have the very real risk that everything you’ve studied at that university would be worthless, if you find yourself in a position that the university have decided you broke some of the rules by for example being the victim of an assault or drinking as per doctors advised drink coffee for an headache rather then having to go down the road of addictive painkillers.
So yea I agree people aren’t forced, but it don’t negate the problem that comes hand in hand with allowing people to infringe others freedom and self determination. It if BY university had a sister university where people seamlessly could transition over to, if they find it impossible or harmful for them follow and keeping all the grades and progress they achieved so far, then this would indeed be a fair case of students choice.
"did I make the impression that I thought people was forced to attend such schools."
When you complained about the honor code and then made the "Land of the Free" remark, you did yes.
@@tinman3586For me freedom is not only on the individual to choose or exclude opportunities, the freedom also lies in institutions being prohibited from reducing peoples expressions and choices.
For me a land isn’t a forefront of freedom when it willingly allows the few to infringe on others.
But sure if you define a land of freedom as in giving any organization and entities the freedom to limit the opportunities of groups of other citizens, the yea I can understand why you interpret what I say as challenging of if a country would be described as free.
@emeliesolli5773 So you don't believe/understand the idea of freedom of association. This idea essentially allows individuals to create private groups/institutions with their own rules and standards for admission without external interference.
You are free to dislike those rules and standards and remain outside the institution. Otherwise, if you want to be a part of it, you must adhere to those rules. It's very simple. You can mock the rules all you want, but I take issue with your "Land of the Free" comment and found it a bit insulting.
i know you’re channel has absolutely taken off from the moment you started it but i just want you to know how much i enjoy your speaking style. both in the way you relay information and the way your voice sounds when you speak. your inflections and such.
i’m autistic - the way peoples voices hit my ear is rather important for me lol.
I’m also an exvangelical so i feel we have similar stories in a way.
anywhooo love the content🥰
I got to 24:50 and had to stop watching, because I just. Separation of church and state. SEPARATION of church and state. I'm really angry whenever that's not observed. Not from a Mormon background, just something I've seen on rare occasions in life, and it always infuriates me. A chaplain shouldn't be telling a military commander things, a cop shouldn't be telling a parish priest things, etc. In this case, a campus cop digging into student records and telling a bishop things.
It’s not broken here because the school receives no government funding.
I'm so glad BYU rejected me. I was likely rejected for being a girl applying to computer science; everyone in my ward with drastically worse grades and no community service got in. A regular university was a vital step for me finding my way out of the cult
Alyssa! I have fallen down a rabbit hole of your videos and I love how informative and well done they are! You have to do a video on the relationship between Hawaii and Mormonism, I would love to hear your perspective and how deep it really goes!