Atlantis: Disney’s Forgotten Gem
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 сер 2023
- Get your Cheech and Chong Cruise Chews Gummies here: tommychongshemp.com/CruiseChe...
What was it that caused Atlantis The Lost Empire to fail for audiences and how can those problems be fixed? Watch and find out. #atlantisthelostempire #disneyanimation #atlantis
End Credit Song: 3 Dog Band
Get your cool merch here: www.teepublic.com/stores/mann...
Support the channel on Patreon: / mannlightfoot
Sit Down and Think Channel: @SitDownandThink
Donate Here: Paypal.me/mannlightfoot
Profile Pic by @Suprdee2
Follow me on Twitch: / mann_of_a_thousand_games
Join the conversation on discord: / discord
Social and means to contact me:
REDDIT- / mannof1000thoughts
TWITTER- / mannlightfoot
TUMBLR- / mann-of-a-thousand-tho... - Фільми й анімація
This is something different than what I normally do with my videos. I don't normally cover old movies or shows like that since it feels like I don't have much to say. So let me know if this is something you would like to see me do more of.
The dark or serious then comical happens is nothing new Gullivers travels has a section where during the war in part one during a fairly detailed enough battle Gulliver pisses on the palace to put the fire out.
I think Waternoose was a great villain in Monsters Inc and was very compelling. As for Atlantis the best and most interesting villain is Helga she does change during the film as does Milo. She goes from the unquestioning lackey soldier to someone who is willing to do the right thing against her friend Rourke and Milo goes from the nervous, under confident academic to a determined bold academic who becomes a hero.
I think Tommorow land has its problems as well but both films are still original and Tommorow land was the last or one of the last apart from Frozen non remake films.
I honestly think that sometimes keeping it as it is should be done unless like Apocalypse Now unused footage is still around and potentially more submarine scenes.
Charles Muntz is a great twist villain, a man who went insane and bitter from being rejected and ridiculed by the explorers organisation. His relationship with Kevin was that of Captain Abe and Moby Dick.
Honestly, I like Rourke's motivation as a villain. It isn't "just to get rich", it's basically a critique of imperialism, and the desire to get rich and take these resources and land from the people who had been living their for generations SOLELY because they don't matter as much as making a quick buck.
In this respect I definitely agree in the portrayal of Rourke’s motivation. What I don’t get is people calling him a good “twist villain” because that turn was projected a mile away.
@Axaul Also very true! I think it counts as a twist villain because the characters don't see it coming. The audience definitely does, though. It's not surprising, true, but it does recontextualize everything before it and makes perfect sense, which is something you can't say for some other Disney twist villains.
I think what would have been sensible/work well is have Rourke work on the behalf of say, the British Empire or Ottoman Empire or what have you. Be willing to sell a whole cilization to the highest bidder so they could have the riches, prestige etc. Hell Kida would've been forced to marry a British or Ottoman or Hapsburg Prince if it meant them gain access to Atlantis tech. Keep in mind this is ATLANTIS one of the most curious things to come out of classical period. Finding it one way or another, and finding ways to legitimize your dynasty like it would've the British Empire or Ottomans would've been a massive thing. Hell the life-imbuing stones alone would've been enough to have the Brittish, Ottomans, etc send in their own agents to seize such magitech. So while I ado agree Roarke is a critique of imperialism, it would've been more interesting, and made more sense if he betrays the group and even his own crew cause a government bribed him for all sorts of reasons.
I mean look at the guy he definitely screamed villain
I agree with you, greed is a realistic motivation not supranatural or fantasy, that's why it could be seen even more scary, it's something real
I think the 'Adventure Capitalist' villain is Fantastic and having that greed be a core of the reason Atlantis is in danger was such a good choice imo
I honestly think it could’ve been marketing. I remember seeing trailers for this movie when I was a kid and I wasn’t really interested in it because it was more marketed towards boys, same with Treasure Planet. But after watching both of those as an adult, I think they were amazing and compelling movies. Sometimes marketing really can make or break a movie
This was around the time Disney was trying to move into new mediums for film (like CG). Workers speculated it was because traditional artists were unionized and had good pay whereas digital artists were non-unionized and could be forced to work 80+ hours a week for crumbs. Disney execs probably flubbed the marketing intentionally on several projects (Atlantis, Treasure Planet, Emperor's New Groove, etc) to make the case that no one wants to see "traditional" animation. Within a couple years, the traditional animation studio was closed down.
Thing is these movies also had a chance after the fact to pull in some people but because of the inherent issues of the movies at best they attained cult status but I honestly think they got the recognition they deserved and nothing more unfortunately. To compare with The Iron Giant which arguably had an even worse advertising campaign, that was a film that truly got alot of support and respect, heck even a fan campaign to release it on Blu-ray.
This and treasure planet i definitely consider my all time favorite Disney movies out there.
Couldn't agree more
Disney: Oh No He Ran out of animated movies to do
Fans of the Movie :no you Haven't
Disney: Oh This is terrible we have no future summer movies
Fans: Atlantis the Lost Empire
Disney: There has to be something to remake
Fans : This movie was ahead of it's time for CGI Animation Likeable diversity characters and a fun story
Disney: I got it we can buy more propertries to reboot them
Fans: 😐😐😐
I really like Atlantis the Lost Empire I do agree with you that it has some problems. Like I wish they did more with the general. Instead of being the typical mustache twirling villain (which by the way Nostalgia Critic said it best HE was the original twist villain not Hans from Frozen). They could have made him a possible tragic twist villain maybe have it that he was born an orphan in war torn country. That he had to climb his way up to the rank of general and have him remember the comardes he lost to get to this point. That when he see this opportunity to show the outside world a hidden ancient civilization. The deaths of his crew wouldn't go to waste to reach here or something i dont know it'll take me awhile to come up with a good idea lol.
That submarine was majestic, I had the McD toy, looking back it’s funny that they destroyed it so fast
This and Treasure Planet are good but are clearly pretty flawed and don't quite go all the way. They're novel enough to get that big cult following but it's easy to see why not everyone took to it at the time. They may not be as fully formed as they be, but they have their charms.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who grew more disappointed with Atlantis as I got older. I definitely agree that the movie had a lot of potential and room to explore some really interesting subjects and ideas, but dropped the ball so hard. I love the ideas you bring up of having more of those character dynamic-building moments on the sub instead of after it gets destroyed. It would have definitely helped spread out the rushed characterization they tried to stuff into the second act. Also, the run time does it such a disservice, it absolutely needed more room to breathe and figure itself out. It definitely felt very sparse in its world, characters, and story because they had to hurry along and hit every beat with no time to linger on anything. Its time was so mismanaged and it's so frustrating because there's a lot of potential in its premise and animation style.
Personally for me, Rourke isn't as big a deal as the weird white savior narrative they absolutely shoehorn into the movie. They wrote these indigenous people as ancient and wise (Kida is like 8000 yrs old? just because??), but forgetful and not smart enough to figure out how to drive their own hovercrafts, all in service of a white guy coming through and figuring it out in 3 seconds for them? That always sat reeeeally unwell with me.
And that's just the worst blemish on their shoddy cobbled-together worldbuilding. So much of the world they constructed makes no sense under the weakest of microscopes. Why do the previous rulers take Kida's mother, but spare her? Why does the heart of atlantis claim Kida as a host and then unresistingly go with the bad guys to "protect itself"?? It left a 200ft high perch underground over a pool of water. The giant water-scarab-scorpion-thing was, much like the sub, all over promo material, but on screen for even less time than the sub and kinda just served the film to look neat with no clear idea or role behind it, beyond mildly antagonistic.
The movie felt like it was held back by executive meddling or maybe changing developmental hands a bunch. Much like the tone you mentioned, its story and world are all over the place with no real sense of cohesion. It does a major disservice to this movie with such amazing art direction and ideas.
Loved the video as always, def look forward to it if you make more vids like this
I thought Rourke was great, actually: He perfectly embodied the movie’s themes on colonization and exploitation of native people. He’s only motivated by greed, sure, but not only is that realistic, it’s his CALLOUSNESS toward the Atlanteans that makes him great. He doesn’t need to be complex; I thought he had enough charisma and smug self-assuredness to make him work.
Incidentally, I’d say his lines “I prefer the term ‘adventure capitalist’” and his line about museums are far more iconic quotes. Like damn, they really WENT there.
I do agree about the rest of the crew needing to be fleshed out more, though.
I thought Helga was very fleshed out same goes for Milo
I’ve said for the longest time that Atlantis was a good film that deserved to be a great film we’re it not for said short-comings, even after the fact. To compare with something more contemporary to it, The Iron Giant also suffered from a poorly conceived promotional campaign, but the film’s quality earned it a cult classic status that eventually got it more and more respect along the way, getting the love it deserved.
I think overall part of the reason Atlantis was all over the place in tone was the filmmakers concentrating more on avoiding being like the typical Disney Princess musical and not enough about carving its own identity. The same issue I also believe hampered Treasure Planet’s tone.
Yup that was a big part of it, it also was they were stuck trying to doing their own thing while disneyifying it so Disney didn't throw a hissy fit of it being too different. Might be getting things backwards though.
Sure didn’t Tommorow land the last time Disney had an original idea have similar problems both have great premisses
As an aside for as much crap the Lion King gets for “ripping off” Kimba the White Lion, it’s funny that Atlantis doesn’t get as much strife for it’s similarities to the anime Nadia: Secret of the Blue Water
That is true!
As much i hate Disney live action reboot or any reboot.... But i would really love to see a treasure planet and Atlantis lost empires ... Both CGI animation blend perfectly well with each other at the time and had a great story to tell hell it doesn't need to be live action it can be a animation series maybe explore more dark themes
Right and if they're going to fix weird overlooked plotholes in Beauty and the Beast, then can fix the notable misgivings for those two
I remember as a kid feeling very let down when the sub was lost so early on, still enjoyed it though
Atlantis is such a strange cultural spot because if you actually know the origins of it was obviously a metaphor for the fall of a once great civilization but eventually became mixed with racist pseudo science to point you had Europeans claiming as proof of some ancient white influence responsible for various nonwhite civs they’d encounter like in Africa for example things like the Benin bronzes or Ife heads were scene as only possible because of long lost European cultural influences and was used by quacks as proof of Atlantis because they didn’t believe black peoples could make such naturalistic or detailed art, plus a whole bunch of later stuff with the Nazis and their obsession with lost civilizations, it’s funny because the whole Atlantis theories are only really given relevance was because of the discovery of the ruins of Troy
........ Just leaving you some Periods here . Use them
Yup, Troy, Knossos etc. I actually like the notion Atlantis was a metaphor based on some overlooked/forgotten myths or notions, but I also like the Atlantis are Mediterranean but their own people. Like human-elves if you will. Though I'd be bored to DEATH if after 10,000 years not much has gone on. I think a big issue for me even as a kid was their lives felt too long, and it would've been better if the beginning was the start of a new dynasty/time for atlantis, or used the other prologue with the Vikings they wanted to use instead. But I do appreciate the creators getting an alphabet and whole language created for Atlantis. Some of the best known fantasy writers don't even go that for their elves or ancient civilizations lol.
So during the peak era of turning the idea of the national museum into a fences lock up
Hercules, Atlantis & Treasure Planet, Emperors New Groove, that era of Disney was on fire. Absolutely love it and such a shame general audiences didnt take too much to them at the time. As a kid i loved them all and still do at 25 lol
I loved that sub so much as a kid! I'm 26 now, and I still love the sub just as much. I wished it could have gotten more screen time. It deserved more.
One of Disney's underrated gems.
💯💯
I love that cookies true identity is ernest you learn something new every day. The reason the characters are so good is because they leave you wanting more. We don't always need to disect them and know them inside and out. And sometimes a villian is just that a villain surprise or not. And I like that it can go from serious to creepy to funny to romantic that gives a story more depth and adds to the realness. if it is missing any of the so called genres a story can feel boring or flat. And this movie gives you a lot of feels like excitement and wonder and amazement all important in good story telling
I saw Atlantis in theaters back then and remember some things kinda boring me. Looking at it now it’s not that bad but there were plenty of things that could’ve been done differently. Also I forgot it got a sequel, I think Disney when they were doing direct to video sequels were using some of them to just to make back door pilots for a tv series and it really only worked for Lilo and Stitch.
Tommorowland has its problems but hey at least it is an original IP
There are a couple of things that don't make sense to me in the movie. One being how none of the surviving Atlanteans knew how to read or write Atlantean and only new how to speak it. It just doesn't make sense that none of the ones that survived knew how to read or write so no one could pass that skill on. I guess a way to fix that is if it was revealed that the king of Atlantis forbade passing on that knowledge in his attempt to hide the heart of Atlantis and it's whereabouts. The other is how, after speaking only Atlantean, Kida and the other Atlanteans suddenly can speak all these languages, including American English, which they'd have no knowledge of after being underground for thousands of years. Though I get that, that was for plot purposes so they could all communicate, it's just it happened so quickly. There is also when Milo is calculating how old Kida is, the way he says it makes it sound like he's saying she's 100 years old instead of 8600 years old. As a kid I didn't realize he was saying 8600 because of where the pause in his sentence was, so I thought he was saying she's 100 years old. Though, I suppose these are all just nitpicks and all that aside, I really like the movie.
Well plenty of languages lost their written traditions for a wide array of reasons linguistic repression or a so called dark age
I recently watched the Stargate film from 1994 and I couldn't help but notice a ton of parallel moments with Atlantis, especially in the beginning setup if the plot
Not sure if it was an inspiration, but its an interesting observation
Could've been, Atlantis, Stargate, Legend of Zelda, Avatar the last Airbender, and Castle in the Sky are big inspirations for my own stuff. Heck Castle in the Sky was a big inspiration for One Piece so you never know.
Atlantis is a film for adults I watched it when I was eight
this was truly an Underrated Gem from Disney that many people forgotten about same with Treasure Planet but with Atlantis The Lost Empire it had grand scale of great characters it more of of a Great Story of a Sci-Fyi adventure then there recent Disney animated movie of Strange World that a cliché Save the environment story to the cliché father leaving his Family guy for adventure trope and whole Gay Son didn't help nether and neither the marketing didn't help nether which I'd find Strange World to be forgotten where as Atlantis the Lost Empire should be remembered
I used to own BOTH movies on DVD/VHS and LOVED it!
If you wanted Rourke to be more memorable than he should have had more interaction with Milo in order to play off of their world views. The thrill seeking opportunist, disillusioned by academia and protocol, versus the knowledge seeking academic. Nearly all of the main cast relate and bond with Milo in a heartfelt way and some time Between Rourke and Milo could have gone a long way. I would constrast their relationship with that of Jim Hawkins and Long John Silver from Treasure Planet, wherein Rourke and Thatch start off pleasant but agree to disagree towards a straight up "so it's come to this!" adversarial climax.
I think Helga was the better villain and has better development
as a mexican kid, Atlantis was one of my favorite movies growing up. i think it may have a lot to do with it being one of the only disney movies were i could see part of my cultural context represented
i never thought that Rourke’s motivation being only money to the point of him not giving an absolute shit about the lives of the people and nature in Atlantis was unreal or too simplistic, mainly because that’s exactly what i was learning about the history of my own country
i’m not saying the way they handled everything in this movie is good but for me the problem is the whole white-saviorship aspect of it, of Atlantis being this incredibly powerful and knowledgeable civilization, but in the end being powerless to defend themselves and needing a good white man to save them
What cultural context?
Perhaps Mesoamerican culture pre-1492. @@OscarOSullivan
The dark or serious then comical happens is nothing new Gullivers travels has a section where during the war in part one during a fairly detailed enough battle Gulliver pisses on the palace to put the fire out.
Honestly, I would rather have a flawed and still entertaining film like Atlantis, than any of the shallow remakes we have been seeing recently.
Agreed I do think Helga is a far better villain and more interesting.
The dark or serious then comical happens is nothing new Gullivers travels has a section where during the war in part one during a fairly detailed enough battle Gulliver pisses on the palace to put the fire out.
I LOVED that film.
It was the FIRST movie I went to see in the cinema. Kida was like my FIRST crush/waifu. I don’t get why it was panned. I just finished rewatching it, and I could LITERALLY recite ALL the lines. I went through a phase when I was OBSESSED with that movie. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t think it needs to have a live action remake, it’s PERFECT the way it is.
It’s DEFINITELY one of my top 3 Disney animated films.
While I do like Atlantis: The Lost Empire, especially as someone that loved it more as a kid and saw it in theaters, I agree with your problems with the film.
I'd love to see Disney bite the bullet and hire someone like Guillermo Del Toro to make a live-action remake that fixes the problems the original had.
Why is there reverb on your vocal track?
i don’t recall much from seeing this movie in childhood, but i do remember that big ole ship/sub and Kida being SO mesmerizing to me… definitely one of those looking back “aha” moments of “yea i was gay since forever” lmao. thanks for reminding me of some fuzzy yet confirming moments from my youth 🖤
This was always a bit of a guilty pleasure film for me, mainly cause I'm an aesthetic guy and this film has that in spades. Definitely agree with a lot of the problems you brought up.
Its Keeda not Kyda...her name is Kida!
3:14 were you advertising edibles just now?!
I really believe that part about cookie being removed should be tossed out. The whole point of Cookie the galley officer is to provide food for the group. Plus if you're going to make the movie live action then you have to do a pure recreation of the entire plot with a few more things added to it for obvious reasons. another thing that must not be changed is Rourke's motivation as he doesn't do this just for the money. Rourke is a representation of all the bad ideologies like Ayn Rand's the Fountainhead which is everything that Lionel Tiberius Rourke is all about. He thinks only about the mission which is the crystal and disregard the spiritual aspect of it.
What's sad is that I liked the movie when it came out.. from what I know, disney was trying to get an anime crowd with that movie.. (As anime shows were starting to get a bigger following), at least that's what my local newspaper reviews were calling it.
At the least, I remember getting the soundtrack, though there was very little merch.. they probably made more merch now.. than they did back then.
It's good to say disney had very little faith in atalantis as compared to hercules.. there was minimal advertising except for a thing on the Disney channel that talks about how they got a real linguistics professional to make up the atlantians' language
But honestly, it bombed in the same way Treasure Planet did.. but both are kinda cult classic of disney.. as home on the range and chicken little are two films.. I'd gladly chuck into hell to never see again
Ngl, I thought this movie was perfect and it just came out in the wrong year. But as I watched through this entire video, I gotta agree. One thing that kinda feels off to me would be Milo being the "white savior" of the film? or it could just be me? Like they needed a white guy to fix their civilization bc he knew the language, plz correct me if im wrong
but yeah I agree with all of the points in this movie. 10/10 video uwu. Plus I love it when more ppl talk about this film
Not everything has to be about race. Who cares if the hero is white? Would it have made the movie better in any way if the character was a different race?
It’s just you. Apparently only black people can save the day now because white people are bad.
@@changotv5847 i mean yeah it certainly could have lol. it’s a whole history of blackface, whitewashing, and white savior-ism in US media. nothing, including Disney movies, happens in a vacuum outside of history and context. if it bothers you that’s one thing, but to say it couldn’t have made for a better story is super unimaginative.
As for the differing tones of the story nothing new Gullivers travels has during a battle between Lilliput and Blefuscu the royal palace goes on fire and Gulliver outs the fire out pissing on the fire in the palace.
As for matters relating to ethnicity Atlantis was originally a Greek myth. As for skin tone they look olive.
A totally great and underappreciated Disney Film that needs a remake, with a more real male protagonist and a cool Disney Princess whose character is superior to previous princesses! It didn't need to be a musical fo be great amd the action and the intrigue with mysterys is so epic plus the voice cast rules
whats up with the reverb or echo on ur mic
If u have more ideas like this ur sitting on, do em
I feel like if this movie would have gotten released today it would get rave reviews.
I guess this getting released during that time period I think people really wasn't feeling Disney nowadays I guess
I have to disagree about Rouke.
For a movie based on the pulp-fiction genre, his motivations are on point.
However, they could have developed his characterization more.
muh racism