The Mk I Lee-Metford: A Comparison with the Mk I Lee-Enfield
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2017
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I'm really glad you mentioned the difference between official adoption date of rifles and the delay for it to be issued to all units; a very important distinction
Cheers!
What a fine day. A cup of Earl Grey and an advanced education on late Victorian rifles. Thank you again sir.
You are most welcome Hugh!
Alright Picard.
favorite historical shooting channel
cemo1999 My favourite channel all round...and I don’t have any particular long interest in the subject. It’s just that good.
Thank you for the very kind compliment... :-)...
And yours too!
The time period uniforms add a lot to the videos. Very nicely done. And very cool!
Now that's what I call A E S T H E T I C S.
Loved seeing the two rifles sing their song, just to think that they form the 1st of their respective generations :)
In a way. They really are the same rifle.... operationally... same capability, same range, same type of action and firepower... It might be more accurate to say that the all the Magazine Lee Metford/Enfield are one generation, whilst the later, Short Magazine Lee Enfields are the second... semantics, yes... :-)
True true, I just personally like to separate them by the rifling~ :3
Well so much for getting to bed at a decent time... worth it!
Haha! Still, it's a "good" kind of sleep deprivation, no?
Absolutely!
I really enjoyed watching Branko firing in his Mounted Rifles uniform. My great great grandfather served with the 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles in the second Boer War. He was killed in action at the battle of Hart River in 1902.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. One of the sources for putting together the impression was a photograph of trooper Jack Baird an Albertan who was at the battle of Hart's River, it's a small world.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing your story.
Branko Diklitch, yes it really is some times. You mentioned where you got the belt and bandoleir. Where did the hat and uniform come from?
The hat is an old RCMP contract made by Christy's of London. A gift from a friend who one day said "I think I have one of those in my basement" when I said I was trying to source one and it turned out to be in my size too. The tunic is from Replicators in India and is a compromise design that doubles as a Serbian WW1 tunic and I will eventually replace it with a more authentic one. The trousers were made by my mom and sister I impose on them for much of my historic clothing nowadays.
Very good, thanks for all the info!
I appreciate the level of detail in the shooting process and ESPECIALLY the time taken to inform the viewer of how the military drills taught to do it. That's something most don't cover and I think it's essential.
If you are interested, there is another video dedicated to the Firing Exercise of the era, here on the Channel.
Just found this channel. I just want to say that it's great to see someone with such a deep knowledge of these guns. You should be very proud of your work.
Thank you!
The Dragoon, and later the Mounted Infantryman was always scorned by both the Infantryman and Cavalryman. They didn't walk like other infantrymen, but weren't considered true Cavalry like Hussars or Cuirassiers. They existed in a kind of limbo, not quite infantry and not quite cavalry.
because they paid cavalry better. from yahoo answers Dragoons is a confusing one. In origins they were a light mounted infantry unit who would use their mounts to manouvre on the battlefield but lacked the skills or mount quality to fight mounted, so fought on foot with carbines. Around the mid-17thC they began to become a fairly standard medium cavalry unit, the process being complete the late 18thC. To confuse matters further some armies used them as light cavalry while France armed them after the fashion of heavy cavalry. Britain called almost all cavalry dragoons 1788-1883 because dragoons were on a lower pay scale.
That's what they get for being cross breed mixed bloods
you look and sound allot like Teddy Roosevelt
I suppose there could be worse people to be compared to... Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders. well he is my favorite war hero
David Hudspeth he was a good solider and good president and a good man.
Churchill saw more combat than him.
albert johnson yes but churchill was a dick.
This is the best channel on UA-cam.
Sir I must say you do an excellent job on your work with this channel. I am always impressed with the details and background. Many thanks for your efforts from Oklahoma!
You are most welcome. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing your video. great to see you are still making these very interesting videos
You are most welcome!
As always a great video, a joy to watch and so much information. Please keep them coming.
Thank you David!
'Mounted Infantry' is better known as 'Light Horse' here in Australia and were considered an Elite part of our Army right up till 1918. They earnt a great reputation after the actions of various Mounted units that had gone to South Africa during the Second Boer War. During WW1 they fought as the spearhead (with the New Zealand Mounted Rifles) of Allenby's famous 'Desert Army' after Gallipoli when the rest of the Australian and New Zealand Infantry went to France and the Western Front. They would ride vast distances across the Desert and dismount for Combat operations - with the exception of the famous 'Charge at Beersheba' where two regiments of Light Horse charged across the open plains with only their Lee Enfield bayonets, over and into the Turkish trenches outside Beersheeba taking the town and its vital water supplies in October 1917. Even into WW2 the local Militia had a few Light Horse units for home defence. The Light Horse still exist today in the modern Army as 'Armoured Cavalry Regiments' that are mechanised (LAVs and Abrams Tanks) but carry the old Light Horse colours, traditions and history.
Indeed. Another fun fact, strangely, the NZMR were equipped with SMLEs at Gallipoli while the NZ infantry used (non charger loading) MLEs...
Extraordinarily comprehensive coverage of the two weapons! Well done, sir!
Thanks!
Mate you are brilliant. So much passion in your hobby. Me and my dad think your videos are brilliant. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! Glad you both enjoy them!
Once more; a simply splendid video
Thank you!
Thank you!
My great great grandfather was an English Canadian soldier that fought in the Second Boer War and I have a picture of him holding his rifle and the magazine pouch going around his chest like that. He was part of the 5th Canadian Mounted Rifles. Thank you for showing me this and what it was all about!
Cheers! Thanks for sharing!
@@britishmuzzleloaders No problem! Happy to. Thank you! The video is very cool!
I liked that ammo over the shoulder belt, wouod be good for driven hunts with easy access to ammo is good to have , and mobillity to move with rifle and ammo is needed also.
That is why mounted units typically went with this style of ammunition carriage..... Formally, Cavalry wore a small (20 or so rounds) pouch on their back on a sling... the bandolier was the logical extension of this concept for more ammunition...
MrPh30 I don’t prefer the bandolier. Quite a hassle to open a pack every 5 shots, then turning it around once one side is emptied...
Napoleon I Bonaparte i guess thats why detachable magazines became such a big deal later on. Nowadays, most kit on modern soldiers have pouches for magazines instead of the somewhat cumbersome bandoliers
My wife and I enjoy your videos. Excellent historical presentation, and Thank you!
Thank you ! Glad you both enjoy them.
This channel alongside with MHV and Lindybeige are the most educational and entertaining channels about everything military history and weapons. I particularly appreciate this one due to filling the gap of British Victorian era guns, an era that it is largely ignored by other channels.
Thanks for that! Glad there is something here that you enjoy. Cheers.
I so appreciate your method of presentation
Thank you.
I love your work. A gift to everyone. History like this is priceless. Thank you.
Thank you very kindly, William.
Very professional production and informative.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A marvellous demonstration , clearly explained . Great video 👍🇬🇧
Thank you!
It is so hard to finding a Lee Metford today. I had a 22 cal trainer and a RIC rifle but only one Lee Metford MKII I did not keep it because it had a bad barrel.. I do still have my No1 MK1 *** that replaced the Mk 1 Lee Enfield. Enjoyed you video as always.
They are a rare beast indeed.
It's definitely great to see you upload another video after quite some time! You've been busy and it shows!
Cheers.
I don't expect the Mounties to be trigger happy, but that bandolier is too unwieldy and cumbersome for practical purposes, when the pouch you carry is a better choice..
It's all in the way you use it... once broken in, it would be no more unwieldily than the pouch... after all, huge numbers were used by all arms (including the infantry) during the Boer War. If it was that bad, they'd have binned it... in fact, the bandolier was to become "the way of the future" and was adopted as the primary way to carry ammunition with the 1903 Bandolier Equipment... not saying that it was the definitive way to do it, mind you... soon a better solution came along in the form of the 1908 Equipment.
In any case, I love Branko's uniform! He should come to your channel more often...
Well done Gents. Good presentation, makes history live again.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Just found you through Ian, awesome stuff. Subscribed!
Glad to have you along! Cheers.
You can really see why stripper clips or enbloc loaders made the magazine cutoff mostly superfluous. The time taken here to load three maybe four rounds into the magazine is about the same as it would take me to fully charge my N4 Mk 1 using the stripper clips and I can load a Garand slightly faster. I bet a different pouch arrangement vs bandoliers used would speed up this loading slightly but stil not to the level of two 5 round clips. Great video!
Good to see Branko on screen. Looking good my friend. 🙂 I always enjoy this channel and it's nice to see a familiar face.
It was good to have him out.
Hi Josh, it's a small world for those of us into this stuff. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
An excellent and educational video. A Royal Irish Constabulary carbine converted from a Lee-Metford is one of my "bucket list" firearms I hope to find & buy someday.
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!
Bloomin' excellent, as always, Rob!
Thanks Robert!
Nice kit. You have inspired me to put my Lithgow mk3n1 into proper working order. Oh yes I will be getting some kit. Thanks
Nice! Have fun shooting it!
I'm glad that the photograph of the soldier from Lord Strathcona's Horse was put in this video at 4:37. It's not often that Canadians are talked about or mentioned during this time period!
Don't forget, my guest Branko, was dressed as A Canadian in the Boer War, too...
britishmuzzleloaders Oh, of course! I'm just personally biased toward our current serving Cavalry regiments. Let him know I enjoy and appreciate his uniform very much!
17k subs great work Rob!
I hadn't noticed until now.. :-) ... Thank you!
The safety catch demonstration reminded me that I was armed with a Lee Enfield stamped 1944 in my days in the British Army Cadets in the 1980s. I was so skinny that I found 15 rounds target practice very painful due to the recoil. I've got a bit more padding now unfortunately. I hope we get to that mark of the Lee Enfield some day on the channel.
There is a No 4 waiting in the wings...
ita vero
Came for the mustache, stayed for the knowledge!! Great video!!
Haha! Cheers!
These always look SO MUCH better than the rest of the Lee family .They need to make a comeback .
They are certainly distinctive, yes.
Superb, thorough presentation!
Glad you liked it!
Cheers, old boy! Great content, long live the queen! Greetings from Brazil.
Thanks Fred!
Another good video. With regards to the mounted infantry bandolier my guess is soldiers would have taken rounds from the part on the back first and, probably have put the remaining rounds somewhere easier to reach.
That's the point though... there is nowhere else... not really as difficult as maybe was eluded to... pop a buckle and rotate it around... what is the point of having a 50 round bandolier when you only carry 25 in it?... :-)
I had a 1956 mfg No2 MK4, all numbers matching including stock, magazine, and bayonet, that I bought when a large amount of them surfaced in a government warehouse in Ireland around 1992. All numbers matching and I received it mummy wrapped in paper and cozmoline. One of my favorite rifles ever and one that I had to sell due to divorce. Your video has inspired me to find another one!
I trust that you are talking about a No4 Mk II?.... :-).... great rifles those. Glad to hear that this has had something to do with your renewed search!
Yep transposed the numbers.
Thank you for sharing this very informative video sir. 💯
You are most welcome!
It's nice to hear the royal Canadian kilted yaksman playing in the background
Haha!
Love the channel informative : interesting : vey well done
Thank you!
I seriously thought that the side by side shooting was another composite shot for a while before I realized they were two actual people shooting at the same time.
We were right next to each other, yes... :-)
Question! In that bit of the Video what song was playing over it?
Great work on the bandoleer Branko!
He did great work!
I ever had so much fun layering about guns and the history behind it sense tales of the gun.
Glad to hear!
hats of to you this is so very well done
Thank you!
thank you so much for posting this video! I am currently reading a book about the 1899 boer war. everything you and your friend have demonstrated here has only validated what I have read and it's great to get a very nice visual on the equipment and uniforms that were mentioned in my book. cracking good job!
Glad that it helped in your understanding! You are most welcome!
What book are you reading, if you don't mind me asking
its part of the on going Osprey historical series "COMBAT" volume 26 Boer Guerilla vs. British mounted soldier. south Africa 1880-1902
You’re sharper on drill than Branko is. :) Great video.
Now now,.... Everybody beings something to the table...
Spectacular. Thank you.
Cheers!
The term for the "crinkle" in the leather for the bandolier is bag leather, embossed by a patterned roller press.
As seen on Gladstone bags, dispatch riders bags, saddle bags an so on...it formally introduces the look of used leather but in a uniform and attractive manner.
The Australian light horse was a form of mounted infantry until the introduction of the pattern 1908 sabre in October 1917 were it started to look like cavalry but still performed as mounted infantry until being finally disbanded in 1942 (as in Queensland, Australia), then as militia units and finally reformed into bren gun carrier units.
Cheers!
Exellent as usual! Like!
Thanks!
Enjoying the Lee Family Tree History
Glad to hear it! Thanks.
Most informative.From South Africa.
Cheers!
Thanks for another video.
You are welcome!
Keep up the great work
Cheers!
Oh man those dust covers are beautiful
👍
Great job on the bandolier...
He did a great job.
Love the kit good sir.
A bit of a change is good no?... :-)
i just love listening to this guy. 😁
Good, I have a face for radio...
Great presentation.
Thank you!
What's cool about comparing these two guns is that at some point in history they might have indeed been used side by side, just as you are doing now.
That's super cool! :D
Yes they were. In British service, they were definitely in service, in the same units, at the same time...
britishmuzzleloaders yep! That's why this is cool!
It's almost a simulation of what it might have looked like for the average soldier at the time. Other than the missing element of someone shooting back of course... xD
Does that Lee Metford have an E stamp on the Nocks form? If so, is that due to it being re-barreled? Love the videos by the way keep up the great productions!
My Metford has an Enfield barrel, yes...
'Might be interesting'. Are you kidding?! 'Possibly the most interesting comparison I could show', is more like it!
Hahaha.... wouldn't want to assume...
britishmuzzleloaders. Excellent video. Thank you. I understand some if not all of the British territorial battalions were issued with the MLE when they first went overseas at the start of WW1, as was the case of my grandfathers battalion (1/10 Liverpool Scottish). I believe the MLE started to be replaced by the SMLE in 1915 but not completed until 1916. Do you have any knowledge of this in respect to the accuracy of my information and the models of MLE that they would have been issued with. Thank you again. Keep up the good work
The MLE was generally replaced by the CLLE (charger loading) or indeed with SMLEs in the Territorial Army by the time of the Great War. There were very few units who reached the field with the (non-charger loading) MLE... The NZ infantry at Gallipoli were one such group...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Thanks for the reply. Now got to find out about the CLLE. This research business is never ending!!!
Love the photo of the Argylls with their "swinging six" sporrans!!
Very distinctive, yes.
Don't know if this is pertinent, but on some later models of Lee-Enfield, pressing the trigger while pushing the bolt home (before the point where the spring is engaged) relieves spring tension without the dry fire. (Caveat: I have never personally experienced failure of the spring or firing pin, but this was the way I was taught.) Some other rifles have similar features. For instance, on some models of Mauser rifle, one grasps the bolt handle after pushing forward and eases it down while pressing the trigger. As always, though, your video was both informative and enjoyable. Cheers!
It does indeed.... that is not "the drill" though.
Thank you for the reply. That makes sense since back in the day you had an armourer and if a spring busted you could just take it to him.
D. Hall Also, dry firing proved that the rifle was not loaded. This is a rule in modern day action shooting sports such as IPSC, USPSA, and IDPA for that exact reason.
As a Canadian that served in the British Army I have a fondness for your channel. One question: one of your uniforms feature a soft white cap with a nape sun guard, can you tell me of it provenance? I assume it is a fatigue cap for Sudan or the Horn, but I've not seen one before.
With thanks.
Hi there. Thanks for the kind words. The cap of which you speak is really just a cover for my Kilmarnock.. It's made from an old sheet. It is featured in Part One of the "Kit" Series.
svaka cast branko.,.puno pozdrava iz bivse yugoslavje
Do you perhaps know why the later models of Lee-Enfield rifle neglected the addition of dust-covers?
Was it done to facilitate the implementation of the charger bridge?
Could have been quite useful to have one during the dirty, jam-inducing conditions of trench warfare.
That's my understanding... the bridge would have had to be too big... best get into the books on it though,... topic for next weeks reading...
Great stuff here, boys!
Cheers!
Perhaps you could also do a video about the Charger Loading Lee-Enfield or CLLE? It is the Magazine Lee Enfield aka the "Long Lee Enfield" converted to load from chargers. It was introduced in 1906 at around the same time the SMLE was being issued.
I'd have to have one first... :-)
l have an enfield stamped 1901 with a charger bridge
That's because they were converted from MLEs.
Those mounted infantry uniforms are cool as hell.
They can be rather distinctive, yes...
I have a Mkll* made in 1896 by Sparkbrook. The bore looks like a sewer pipe and is missing the buttplate but I still love it.
Too bad!
Where did you find the picture of the Camel Corps engaged?!
I noticed in many of the pictures that appear to be in the field the men using two crossed bandoliers doubling the number of rounds available. Do you think this would have been common practice or limited to certain units?
Bandoliers were commonplace in the Boer War. Both as a supplement to conventional equipment and also as a replacement for the associated pouches... The MI and Cavalry arms used bandoliers nearly exclusively.
Great video guys! Is Branko by any chance from ex-Yugolavia?
Not for me to comment on his background as he was a guest on the Channel. Feel free to contact him over on the Victoria-Esquimalt Military Re-Enactors Association FB page.
I live around 20/30 minutes from the Enfield Mills, If you ever find yourself in North London, go and have a look! Excellent day out the Waltham Abbey Gunpower Mills!
Cool!
@@britishmuzzleloaders Planning a trip this weekend actually, lovely fields too walk in around the mills as well, perfect day out!
another great video
Cheers.
That’s one cool looking bandolier.
And hand made! He did an awesome job.
Could you do a video of the Long Lee Enfield vs. Boer War Mauser.
Don't have a Mauser... that would be great.
I really want to know where you got the hat . I have always wanted one.
They are available on the inter web.
Sorry for commenting on an old video, but in regards to the 'Fadosha incident' - Did they have access to older black powder ammo for their Metfords? Or have to make do with Cordite?
Ammunition was all Cordite by 1898…. Black powder ammunition was a simple stop gap used in the very early 1890s until a suitable smokeless powder was chosen… this ended up being cordite which was adopted in 1891.
would you please be able to do a video on how to shoot a rifel exsplaineing the holding of the fire arm the breathing and sight a linement thanks as i have allways wanted to lern shoot but have never had the chance.
I suppose so.
thank you very much
Your videos are great. But what did Victoria ever do for you?
Huh?
Do you know if the mounted infantry at 18.30 are Gordons or Seaforths? - A little difficult to tell without seeing their cap badges close up and with no collar dogs. Gordons I THINK?
They are Gordons.
I am beyond impressed with the condition of these rifles.
Cheers!
I picked up a Lee Metford cavalry carbine that still has the saddle ring if you are interested in borrowing it for a video.
Thanks! Already got one!
Later versions of Cordite were cooler and less erosive. The Japanese continued to use Metford rifling with smokeless powder in their Arisaka rifles with no problem. Metford rifling is one of the species of polygonal rifling modified to a more rounded shape to reduce fouling collection in black powder use. Polygonal rifling having been used almost from when rifling began from time to time and was resurrected by Isombard Brunel in conjunction with Westley Richards and, um..., 'borrowed' by Whitworth.
You are right about home units still having Martinis until quite late. My grandfather joined the Northamptonshire Regiment before the Second South African War and was trained as a recruit on Martinis. Probably Martini Metfords or Martini Enfields.
Well done Rob and my thanks to Branko also.
I wasn't aware that the Japanese used Cordite in their service ammo.
Not cordite but cordite had overcome it's hot erosion issues so was not so dissimilar to the Japanese powder in performance so Britain could have reverted to Metford rifling had they so wished.
Who played this version of General Mitchell
good show lad!
Thank you!
i have bought a Lee Metford mark2* a couple weeks ago but it is missing the volley sights.
Ah, too bad…
Trivial question, but from observing fired projectiles, can it be determines whether they were fired from a Lee Metford or Lee Enfield based on the rifling marks left on them?
Yes.... Medford rifling has seven grooves, whist modern "Enfield" rifling has five.
Thank you Rob, I had some .303 projectiles from a Victorian rifle range backstop, they're from a Metford. Thanks again, keep up the great work.
What is the music played during the side by side shooting part at 14:00?
I think it from a Guards' parade.
You seem to know your stuff.im hoping to get a no4 mk1 soon is there anythink i should look out for on the no4 any know wear promblems with them ect great channel really like the old British army rifles the rifles that help shaped the old British empire.
Breech, bore, crown.... take a 303 round and put it nose first into the muzzle... if it stands proud then it should be OK.. if it sinks down up to the case mouth, the bore is shot out...
britishmuzzleloaders thank you for the quick reply i make sure i do that. 👍