Space Hulk Terminators | How Have the Designs Changed, and Which Ones Are the Best?
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Always Board Never Boring loves Space Hulk, and in this video he talks a bit about the history of the game and how the appearance of the space marine terminators has evolved over the years. We take a look at terminators from 1989, 1996, and 2009, and we ask the most important question: Which ones are the best?
A few notes one this video:
1. This content was only possible because of the amazingly generous donation of subscriber Phil Devey, who sent in sets of the older marines for us to look at. Thank you, Phil!
2. Always Board should clarify that in this video he is talking about Games Workshop's plastic board game miniatures. It goes without saying, he's a real sucker for Oldhammer metal miniatures, and would rank most metal miniatures from the 1980s and 1990s above Games Workshop's more modern output.
3. You can find the Space Crusade with terminators video here:
• Space Crusade (StarQue...
#SpaceHulk #terminators #Oldhammer
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Thanks for the mention, I was pleased to be able to help the channel in a small way. Interesting video, and a good conclusion! I personally like the simplicity and chunkiness of the 1st Edition terminators, and I often use them in my games of Space Hulk (which I love), even though I have a good number of later models.
The trouble with collecting them is that you start with a sergeant, flamer and three bolters in the basic squad, then you want to add an assault cannon, lightning claws, thunder hammer & storm shield, chainfist, captain and librarian. Now you want two squads, as most missions are for two squads. Finally you start to think about different chapters - Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Deathwing, Space Wolves, Black Templars etc. It's just never ending, and easy to get carried away!
I did read in Board Game Geek the other day about someone who had drilled holes in his 1st Edition termies, then glued in a straight length from a paper clip to re-create the aerials. Seems like a lot of trouble to me, but apparently it can be done.
Thank you for sending them in. It was great to add them to the collection, and a perfect opportunity to do some comparisons of the designs. You can see the 1989 termies have already had a bath, and the 1996 squad are about to take a dip as well. I know exactly what you mean about getting carried away. I'm already shopping for squads for a game I don't even own yet!
You could definitely replace the aerials with metal paper clips, but I honestly don't see the point. I think the aerials break up the "flow" of the miniature - they have stuch a strong, iconic silhouette. I may well remove the "nubs" completely, as I think the perfectly rounded top looks even better.
The third edition terminator sculpts are some of the best work games Workshop has done. Full of character and dynamic movement
They sure are. But the thought of painting them I find terrifing!!
1st ed: best for boardgaming
2nd ed: best for wargaming
3rd ed: best for roleplaying
The only exposure I had to Space Hulk was the quite hard (for me at the time) DOS game. I did however play quite a bit Space Crusade and a LOT of Heroquest (inc RoTWL, KK and AtOH).
Yeah, I never played Space Hulk back then. It was HeroQuest and Space Crusade (plus their Advanced relations).
I got the same exposure to the 1993 Dos game Space Hulk as well. I was too young to grasp some of the concepts at the time. Definitely found it challenging when we were younger
1st Edition Space Hulk is what got me into the GW hobby. My first army for 3rd edition 40K was comprised of my Space Hulk Terminators with Advanced Space Crusade marine scouts.
Nice. Those marine scouts really did get around.
Great stuff as always! I had Space Crusade when it came out but my friends weren't interested and my brother was a bit too young to play it with me. I used to just set it up, look at it and read the instructions. These videos are such a great way for me to be nostalgic and relive the games I never managed to play 😁
Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm really pleased to hear you're enjoying the videos.
A little bit of nostalgia there - I remember playing the first edition when it came out - and loved it ever since.
It stands up as well today as it did then, for sure. Thanks for watching.
The 1989 plastic models might look crude now, but this was the first time GW introduced Terminators properly as a concept (I'm not counting the three metal Proto-Terminator miniatures that appeared at different times in White Dwarf, prior to Space Hulk) and the fluff was that these suits were clunky and hard to move around in, in the tight and claustrophobic confines of the Space Hulk corridors. The miniatures did a great job of conveying how helpless the Terminators might be, once they had to fight hand to hand, using just their power fist. What a great game Space Hulk was, and still is, a real problem-solver for the Terminator player.
First edition all the way, the art work rocked, it was thematic and grim in a way that they have never managed to recapture.
2nd edition terminators were re-released in Germany a couple of years ago. They were in blue plastic and it was under the label 'Battle of Vedros'. But we never got this in the UK - our Battle of Vedros stuff in GAME stores was mostly rehashed Assault on Black Reach models or old Ork buggies.
That's interesting. As I started reading your post I was thinking, "but I remember Vedros and it was the old Black Reach stuff." I wonder why they re-released the old termies in Germany. Seems an odd thing to do.
I got my 2 ed terminator squad from 'Battle of Vedros'. Funnily enough, they shared a box with Black Reach Dreadnought and a scatter terrain sprue.
And also a terrible starter brush and paint pots of dubious origin.
I got a copy of the 2nd release of Space Hulk recently and have been busy painting up the Genestealers. I really like the 2nd release sculpt of the Terminators - I'm a vintage collector and for me the 3rd release versions are just TOO detailed. I love the 1st release design as well though (possibly even more than the 2nd release design, but I'd have to have one in hand to really know how I feel for sure) - the 1st release remind me a lot of the Mondoshawan from The 5th Element with the huge rounded shoulders.
I'm more of an Oldhammer collector as well. The first edition termies really do have a Fifth Element vibe to them.
See white dwarf 110 for the first terminator. Page 24. My first issue of white dwarf!!!!!! Thanks for the video. Love the channel
Thanks for watching. I was under the impression that there was an illustration in issue 109, and an illustration or maybe a photograph of a prototype model in a subsequent issue, but Space Hulk featured the first commercially available terminators. Maybe I'm wrong, though, as that was before I started reading the magazine.
So, I've just done a quick bit of digging around on this. From what I've found, it looks like there were illustrations and a prototype of a termie in issue 109, a different prototype in issue 110, the full metal squad reveal in 112, and then Space Hulk was promoted in 113. I don't know if the termie squad launched alongside Space Hulk, or whether it was slightly before or after, so I may not have been right about the Space Hulk models being the first ones available.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring The metal "turtle" terminators were the first ones out, with giant shoulder pads. www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/271554-.html?m=2
They also did a really limited run of SP-105 termies that are nicknamed "cobra" terminators, and these had a cobra hood looking back piece. www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/305468-5%20Rogue%20Trader%20Terminators.html
People confuse the nicknames of these two all the time so info is hit and miss.
Then came the plastic Space Hulk, that were almost immediately replaced by the metal ones that released at the same time because of weapon options.
First of all, stop using your dark arts to post links. Links are on a ban list in the comments and are supposed to get automatically stripped out by UA-cam! Second, thanks for the info. I thought the turtle and cobra models were unreleased protos, so didn't realise you could buy them. The cobra is the terminator that turned up in issue 109 of White Dwarf, which I thought was the first issue to contain information about terminators in general. That issue also contained a piece of art that is clearly one of the turtle marines.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring HA.
That's a pretty shitty superpower/dark art to have. Are they going through automatically or what?
I have one cobra terminator and don't even want to think what a squad would cost now.
The turtle ones go an entire article write-up with some art in WD containing the 40k rules. The rules were super-ceded a couple of issues later.
I like the Deathwing Terminators boxed set ;p
I cut my teeth on the space hulk board games! This is great! These thing are always super nostalgic for me.
A year ago, at the height of everything going on in the world, I decided to double down and dust off my first edition copy of space hulk to write a home brew campaign for old friends. Surprisingly, they encouraged me to turn on an old blog and be hip with an Instagram account to post progress… I’m not hip lol
Thanks for watching, and good luck with the homebrew campaign!
For christmas I got a 1ste edition Space Hulk with the terminators, and, intact candle sticks!
Those are great gifts.
Love the 1st edition Terminators as they remind me of the guardians of the elements in The Fifth Element movie.
Not a fan of the 2nd edition ones and the 3rd edition ones are great (if you base them to show facing).
To be fair, I've never had trouble with the facing of third edition marines - they are facing the way their faces are looking - but I know a lot of people aren't keen on it, so it's a legitimate complaint.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yeah it's not a huge deal (only a very minor aggravation). Even if the model gets bumped it's only a 2 player game with limited models so one of the players will remember the facing from the last move.
* "Are you German?" *
It true they look like Mondoshawan
I would love to see a playthrough of this
I really need to find more time in my schedule for playthroughs. There are so many games I want to cover.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I totally know what you mean. I used to make reviews for Japan exclusive NES games. I'd spend countless hours to make a 5 minute video, it got to the point that I wasn't even enjoying playing the games anymore.
Awesome! I have 1st, 3rd, and 4th edition. I love the 89 by far. I just got 15 terminators rogue trader with captains, sergeants, chaplains, and Liberians. Can’t wait to paint them up for SH and SC. Enjoyed the video.
Looking forward to ASC. Don’t know much about it.
That's an amazing collection of classic termies. I need to pick up a classic librarian myself.
Wow, gratz!! That's very cool!! And thanks for that run down of the different versions. I only have the 2009 version, as I was always a WFB player going back to 5th edition in '95, and not at all into 40k/sci fi minis or games. I was strictly fantasy minded lol, so I didn't know a lot of this.👍
Thanks for watching. I was mainly into the fantasy stuff as well. I had Space Crusade and Advanced Space Crusade, but never owned the first or second edition of Space Hulk. Which seems weird now, looking back!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Right yknow when we were younger there ofc wasn't this powerful FOMO hype for each big new product from GW, plus our funds were much more limited, so I had no FOMO at all, lol. 40k editions would come and go and I had no interest. It wasn't until later that I began to feel the FOMO pressure primarily I think from forum posts, with people talking about past editions and how great they were and now they're hard to get. And so i started getting starter sets for 40k and Space Hulk and more recently Necromunda, etc. Now I think it's dying down, as you can only own so many boxes and minis quite frankly, though I do still love the hobby. Reality kind of imposes itself inevitably upon us all, lol 👍
You have to pick your battles sometimes. These days I have much more fun hunting down, collecting and restoring the games from my childhood than chasing the next hot new game coming out. That's not to say my head isn't turned every once in a while!
I think the 2nd edition are my all round favourites. They are the most similar to the classic old metal terminators of my childhood. I brought a 4th edition last year and the miniatures are amazing - but I'm too scared to paint them! One day when I have a few quid spare i might even commission a pro to paint them as I doubt I'd ever do them justice.
The genestealer patriach from 4th is a super cool model! I might start a 40k genestealer cult just to put him to good use. Even the 1989 genestealer models hold up today I reckon.
100% agree with your assessment here. I play the 3rd edition with 2nd edition minis… it’s just easier that way, plus they were already painted. I do have a copy of 2nd edition still on the sprue, unpunched iirc. I think the only thing I’d do at this point is raid it for more terminators or genestealers in the unlikely event I needed more.
I just got a few more of the Plastic 90s Terminators to add to my metal ones and 1st Ed. Space Hulk guys. I love the modern Terminators, but the Space Hulk 1st Edition and early metal Terminators are what captured my heart back in the 90s, especially in all those great White Dwarf articles. I'm looking forward to you getting a copy of Advanced Space Crusade. I forgot which WD has it, but there's a new tile in one of them so you can add to the Tyranid ship.
They have such a wonderful look. I'm a sucker for the older stuff anyway. I am gradually amassing Oldhammer metal miniatures, which I will always love more than modern pieces, and the plastics that came with older GW titles have that same appeal to me.
I had forgotten there was an extra tile for ASC. I'll have to hunt down all the additional content when the time comes.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring same here. Old GW is just so charming. I've gotten that and I think all.of the extra tiles for Space Hulk from WD. I just don't have the heart to cut up the magazines.
Which models are “the best”? I love your final answer! My problem is that I agree fully and want them all! I had the original set when the 1st Edition was released and got the 2014 Edition. Missed out on the 2nd Edition models completely! (Was on a 20 year Hobby break!) Thanks for posting!
I am a conflicted hobbyist. I love the old stuff so much, I'm constantly distracted by new stuff, and I want things that are fun but easy to paint, and easy to use for hours of gaming. Thanks for watching. I also had a long break from the hobby, but it has a way of dragging you back in!
I bought a job lot of 13 "space marines" off ebay that turned out to be 1st edition Space Hulk terminators. They had layers and layers of horrible paint on them and I had to use iso alcohol and in some cases acetone to scrub off the paint. Had to use a needle to get into some cracks. Sadly a few of the models becames slightly bleached though 😭 I didnt know they were 1st edition until just now 😅
Those 1st editions have some insane amounts of detail actually. I wouldnt call them a simple sculpt. Yeah the design (not having multiple parts) is simple but the sculpts are insane to me.
Loved the review but I think it was a stretch to suggest the Terminator with the Cyclone Missile Launcher was a conversion. The CML was designed and released specifically for Terminators, I actually have one though the Terminator is also metal, negating much of that top heavy problem you mentioned. Though I guess if you are going to put it in the Space Hulk game the Terminator it came with may have looked a little undersized for the game.
The other thing that tripped my curiosity was the mention of the purity seals that were blowing in the "breeze"? Where did the breeze come from on a space hulk I wonder? I got the third edition of the game though and I'm planning on using the Midwinter Minis painting guide for the marines when they get to the top of my painting list.
Of course the cyclone launcher was designed for terminators, but it wasn't meant to be dropped onto a plastic Space Hulk terminator, so I am more than happy to call it a conversion.
Those 3rd/4th edition Blood Angels Termies are all time best termie scuplts and go for a good price on eBay! For nostalgia and derpiness though the 1st edition space hulk are glorious.
They really are awesome.
Parchment isn't that flammable (it's sheep hide, after all).
Also, thanks to this video, I've identified the random "knob" that someone had stuck on the, erm, groin of a terminator I bought from them, as the end of the targeter.
I don't actually know what space marines make their purity seals out of, but they coat them with protective stuff anyway. It was just a joke about the flamer being covered in paper - I've just always found it a funny image.
The main reason I like the more recent miniatures is because second edition omitted the weapons that featured in the expansions for first edition, so there's no assault cannon, chain fist, lightning claws, thunder hammer and storm shield, and there was no Librarian either.
Seems the only weapon that didn't get reintroduced in third/fourth edition is the commander's powerfist mounted grenade launcher, probably because it was a lot of faffing around as I recall determining where grenades landed,etc.
The genestealer miniatures in the first edition are still the best, the posing fits the theme perfectly and they came in just three parts, the more recent Space Hulk genestealer miniatures seem more suited to a diorama than a game. A genestealer tearing through the floor would look great in a showpiece, looks a bit ridiculous as a miniature you're moving around a board.
I definitely prefer the old genestealers. They used to get tangled a bit sometimes, but only with each other - not the scenery! I still can't get over the fact some of the newest Space Hulk genestealers are missing a limb.
Terminators are cool. Great vid.
They certainly are. Thanks for watching.
Space Hulk 1st ed (1989) is still the best Space Hulk ever produced.
I still have 140 painted genestealers from the original set.
Nice. I have a small set of original genestealers and genestealer hybrids. They are great.
2nd wave of Space Marine Heroes are some neatly designed Terminators. I was given an incomplete copy of 3rd edition Space Hulk, trying to replace the original miniatures was just beyond me, then and now. But over the last 2-3yrs, pre-Covid conventions, car boots and ebay have yielded enough pieces for a 5 man squad and 15 assorted genestealers, some of which are most definitely Space Crusade, 1st ed era.
I have most of the Space Marine Heroes as I bought a couple and then bought Rise of the Orks. They're very cool, and super chunky compared to these first edition Space Hulkers.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring that's exactly how I built up my collection of the 1st wave - I found a copy of Labyrinth of the Necrons * in a GAME store purely by accident
@@fransaacs Labyrinth of the Necrons is a great game. I have the two expansions for it as well, and it's amazing how often I bring it to the table, even now. Rise of the Orks was okay, but nowhere near as good.
I have about 30 of those 1990's Terminator models most are crudely painted by a previous owner but some are good and unpainted mainly the 5 I got from the 3rd Ed battle force.
I dream about the v2 so I really love them.
V3 are very beautiful.
Hard to tell.
I have see some ppl base the v3. Doing so you can had a mark to tell what is front.
Yeah, I've never personally had a problem with facing on the third edition marines, but I know that some people do and have rebased them as a result. It's really something that GW should have thought about a bit more, but it feeds into that idea that it really felt like they were trying to show off with these models and were less concerned about any practical considerations.
I am wondering how the Terminators evolve further as we have Intercessors now, which are so big. Terminators should be bigger than Intercessors.
Primaris terminators might as well be dreadnoughts!
Space Hulk - one of the best games ever made.
When you get Advanced Space Crusade, you can use the boards to play "Space Hulk Crusade Solo"
A purely solo iteration of Space Hulk.
Rules are on boardgamegeek, in the files page for 4th edition.
Solo Space Hulk rules are in the Deathwing add-on. I find them quite sane and elegant.
so, that space crusade, how's it going?
My Space Crusade collection is complete, as I now have both expansions for it. Advanced Space Crusade is a long term project that I will be gradually adding to over time, but I have a lot of the options now, especially for the tyranids.
I’m very curious about the actual white dwarf issue number with the terminator conversion rules, can someone help me out
Actually there were a few metal terminators, older than those from rouge trider era.
Correct. I thought they were just prototypes but they did go on sale. There are more details here in the comments section.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring you could arguee that everything from RT was a prototype. I own few models from first few waves and they can have huge differences. It is more vissible on pre RTB1 minis.
I wish that old space crusade had extention with Terminators, even more funky old minis.
Ha, that’s true. With the terminators there was a new design every month, it seems!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring midwinter minis has a great video about it where he talks witch sculptor of on of those designs. As far as I remember thry were made simultaniously.
Wow those old school ones thow
I've got a real soft spot for the 96 versions. They also give me the strongest impression of what this lumbering space suits would be like while the 09 versions feel like a mythic retelling or propaganda. But if they did another release id want the 09 sculpts. That being said, the 96 ones have the added bonus of no chapter specific iconography. Maybe my space hulk terminators aren't blood angels
Yeah, they certainly went all out to let you know they were Blood Angels in the third edition.
3rd editions.. i don't know, they just don't give me that space hulk feel. I don't see that hulking, hunched tactical dreadnought armour. I get more of a power armour feel. I don't know why. I always had the sense that the constricted bodies of the old terminators were supposed to be a contrast to the flailing animated limbs and wild poses of the genestealers. And the tightness of their poses expressed the intense claustrophobia the terminators would be experiencing. Ironically I think these 3rd ed terminators would work better on a 40k battlefield and the 2004 terminator box set would work better for Space Hulk
I believe the original is called saturnine terminator plate. Gets name checked in the Horus Heresy books.
That's beyond my pay grade in terms of knowledge of 40K!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring take a look at it when you have the chance.
It's so weird but I kind of enjoy how cumbersome it is.
It's like someone decided the pauldrons on all their models were impractically big and decided to try their hand at a bit of satire
Oh, sorry for the confusion. I know what it looks like, with the round heads sunk down under the high, round pauldrons, and I've been discussing it in a few other comments here regarding when it first appeared in White Dwarf. I just didn't know it was called Saturnine plate!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring it's a name that they gave it retrospectively, so it's entirely reasonable the name wouldn't have been recognised.
Back then there was no set model, so they released about 3 variants in quick succession before committing to the final design, which has again been changed but never quite so drastically
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 Ah. That makes sense. I've seen images of the three variants by Goodwin and Naismith that were just prior to the 8-man squad box. There are some really cool designs. It reminds me a bit of the different attempts at a Robocop in Robocop 2!
Lol. Nostalgia. 👍👍
I prefer the 90s Terminators. The 2009 Terminators bases sucked so badly. Mine fall over all the time, they get stuck on other marines as you mentioned and its basically impossible to have a squad of them standing beside each other. I am not going to deny they look kewl but they are more a show piece that you never use cause of their god awful base.
So there are _sculpts_ and there are _gaming pieces_ . All too often, GW confuses these things. The first edition Termie is a marginally better gaming piece than the 2nd edition Termie, and both are far better gaming pieces than the 3rd edition Termie which is a better sculpt.
Those 3rd edition terminators are too busy for my liking.
They are very show-offy.
1st edition all the way.
The unique design really makes them stand out.
I love the terminator designs. Too bad that silly movie confused them with necrons
Ha. I was about a second behind that joke.
Yep. You could actually afford the original games back in the beggining.
I actually don't know what first edition Space Hulk cost back in 1989. I know HeroQuest was £22, which worked out to about £56 these days, but of course, that was MB not GW. I might have to dig around, see if I can find some pricing.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I paid 49 US dollars for all my GW games around in the early 90's. Expansions were about 24.99 to 30.00 dollars. Squad boxes were about 15 if I remember that patt right. With 10 figures. Now it's 40 and up for a squad of 5 or ten.
I'm fairly sure all the box games were £30, blood ball, space hulk, adeptus titanicus and all the rest
Thanks. £30 in today's money is about £75, which is what they charged for Space Hulk in 2009. I suspect if they every reprinted Space Hulk now, the price would be considerably jacked up from that 2009 price! With the exception of Space Hulk, I had all those games. I have no idea how I could have afforded them all!
I've just found the original receipt in my 1st Edition Space Hulk box - it cost £14.99 from a Games Workshop store on 17/02/95. I must have paid in cash because it says change 0.01p. The ink is very faint now, but that price surprised me.
Easy. The best ones are the metal ones that released alongside 1st edition.
Well that's cheating. I should have been more clear, but I meant from the Space Hulk boxed game sets. I do agree with you though, as the metal stuff is superior in almost all cases. Was that box of eight launched the exact same time as first edition Space Hulk, or did they go to retail slightly before or after?
RTB9 was April of 1989 and so predates Space Hulk by month.
I think the first issue of WD talking about Space Hulk already had rules for the RTB terminators. I'd have to dig around to find which issue. Those rules also changed when the expansion boxes came out. I think it was the assault cannon and grenades that got changed, from memory.
Man what a great set that was. I still have all the minis but the box has been lost to time.
Okay, I though Space Hulk were the first termies; I assume they were all released around the same time as part of a big release event focused around Space Hulk. I believe the first White Dwarf when Space Hulk launched was issue 113 (I think the numbering might be slightly different in the US?).
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yeah the numbering is one off, but US copies of early issues are sort of rare, so most people use UK numbering. I think 112 was the first mention of the box set. Maybe 109 had the rules for the turtles from dec 88 or maybe 110? I have both of those because they were the first set of vehicle (109) and infantry (110) rules for adeptus titanicus before Space Marine came out.
GW was a real mess way back then with model releases and rules changing on a monthly basis.
What I would be really curious about is the changes to the genestealers from the ymgarrl version in RT rules.
They were also very hardcore in 40k stats. Like 4 claw attacks and str 6, one kiss attack that stunned for rest of battle, hypnotic gaze, immune to psychology, and two wounds.
Metal stealers and Magus were May 89 - aside from that two pack one with the termie.
I like the 2nd design the best with the original in second place and the third Gen in last place. The third Gen are too animated for terminators and I am not a fan of all the seals and the sty’s cloak.
This is from the era when the models were game pieces, you can see that it is designed for playing games. The modern models are just far too fragile.
Yeah, you can see the economy of design on the older stuff, and the restraint in making them look good while still being able to stand shoulder to should in a tight space.