I think people would be more interested in taking breaks from D2 if the game's systems didn't inherently punish you for that. FOMO has been pretty well baked into the game at this point.
Definitely. I tried to "take a break" but the anxiety of not getting my season pass done before it disappeared forever actually made me say fuck it and not come back at all. The FOMO is so bad that is actively makes it difficult to come back to the game while you've been gone. If I've missed 1 season already, what's 1 more? Or another? Or an expansion?
@@Five20three No? You're aware all the passes and stories of this year's seasons are all going away forever this summer, right? What do you think FOMO means...?
Agreed, there’s something that feels so deflating about the most hyped era of the game also being when Bungie is at their most strained and limited. The Witness being yet another “civilization that feels betrayed by The Traveler” was also a huge bummer.
the pyramids first seen in lightfall or my most recent memory was so intriguing like you don't ever see this really that way and just sorta hanging them out to dry seems sad i could also say it was when imo eris morn started to become relevant as you don't see much of her unless your on the moon a lot but ya :P
Don't Vow of the Disciple and Root of Nightmares both take place inside Pyramid ships? This would imply they aren't empty and infact carry some of the witness's most powerful disciples.
Played from day 1, got 6k hours in both games... Burnout isnt the issue.... The same repetitive bullshit, reskins, no truly unique gear, armor useless... Has finally taken its toll. I'm burned out from their lazy decisions. I clamor for more but not in the current state. And no I'm not returning for final shape, it's just more of the same and an ending that to me is just not worth it to experience. The game went for 10 years, it was a good run Edit: just to clarify, yes I've burnout from shitty reskins and weapons that now all feel the same in their archetypes. If the game shifted and we had truly new weapons and no more reskins, more motivation for crucible modes like a return to pinnacles, and armors became worthy again, a new enemy or two ffs already, if the game actually changed in these manners I'd return in a heartbeat. It isn't the gunplay or playing the game, Its the best out there... I clamor for more but not in it's current state. Let's put it this way... Their is no more fomo, because you'll get the same stuff eventually even if you miss it it'll just be wrapped in a different skin etc
"Burnout isn't the issue...it's the same repetitive bullshit.." Brother this sounds a lot like burnout lmao you've played for 6,000 HOURS, of COURSE everything is going to be repetitive and you'll be tired of everything. I think I've maybe put more 1,000 hours on a small handful of games, I cannot imagine playing a game for 6,000 hours. I'd lose my mind. Thats insane. You don't need new content at that point, you need a new game.
Yeah, Paul is wrong. It felt super underwhelming and not at all necessary to the narrative of Lightfall or overall story. It was just a new power we had access to. Fun, but explanation wise: meh.
@@ogChaakaStrand would have made zero sense in Witch Queen and I’m glad we didn’t get it then. Just because it’s green doesn’t automatically mean it was supposed to be in WQ.
It felt like there was a poorly conceived and executed story that they at some decided to shoehorn strand in to. The strand part didn't work as part of the story and the story itself didn't work so even though the structure of the missions was similar to Witch Queen from a broad perspective, the expansion failed badly.
There needs to be a better mechanism to deal with the FOMO and confusion when taking breaks: exotic weapons, story points etc. Burnout is a huge issue as you’ve mentioned.
Fomo shouldnt be possible in 2024 tbh most people arent doing endgame so the weapons they miss out on mean nothing because they just play at level content.
Season pass weapons should 100% not be in/going into the monument kiosk. That should be reserved solely for weapons that had meaningful, dedicated methods of acquisition. (Raids/missions) A season pass is not a meaningful source
Essentially blaming the community for having expectations of a game is absolutely the wildest take I’ve ever seen. In the video he asserts that he hasn’t been sponsored by Bungie but my god the meat riding is crazy. The only issue he presents with the game is PvP and cheaters, which he contradicts himself for anyway. On one hand, he thinks the community is in the wrong about expecting good future content. On the other, he expects Bungie to do something about cheaters when they’re barely keeping themselves afloat with PvE. Jake lost me on this one
He's only worried about his streaming revenue and UA-cam revenue. The pvp is really all he cares about. If he could farm low K/D players all day he'd be in heaven. I've never respected his opinion regarding much of D2.
I mean, that's the same guy who complains about there being a so-called cheater on the opposing team every single time he loses a match. Not expecting anything from him. He attracts a similar crowd.
His entire career hinges upon destinys success. He’s not sponsored by them no no, it’s so much worse. His entire livelihood is dependent on Bungie, not just one paycheck. You can’t trust a single word that leaves the mouths of creators like that.
Listen, Jake seems like a nice guy, but his takes on the game and especially the business side of it make it quite obvious that he doesn't have much experience outside of being a content creator and I'm glad you and others are pushing back on this take. I'm not a 10 year veteran of the game, I started less than a year ago, and within that time frame I went flawless in trials a few times, completed every raid, and gilded conqueror and iron lord. I love the raids, the dungeons are phenomenal and are some of the most unique experiences I've had in gaming, but with that said I haven't played since about 2 weeks into this season, and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I had got to a point where I realized that I had pretty much everything I wanted (all the raid/ seasonal weapons I wanted crafted or rolled) and I was launching the game to find something to work towards, not to have fun. It became a checklist simulator and as someone who is goal oriented it was like crack when I started, but as it wore off so did the novelty. When you realize that you're on a hamster wheel (which I already knew to begin with) but the people around you are no longer getting on it with you and everyone else you see on the wheel hates it, you start to question your choices. To counter your point about pvp, my "quit moment" as it were, was playing the same cheater twice in a row on my lighthouse game in trials the first week of the season and realizing the guy had been cheating for 4 straight seasons without repercussions.
Jake is just such a whiner, thinks more people care about PvP than actually do, says he's taking a break from the game yet here he is doing trials carries every week, dude is a joke
at this point Jake is better off trying other games, I mean look at Datto who's the literal quintessential Destiny gamer making good content with other games and actually having fun with said games. Cross is another guy doing the same (even if he's misleading with video titles and kinda obnoxious lmao), Jake just needs to hang it up until Final Shape releases and actually realize that some people just aren't fixated in PvP anymore like he is.
@pipexelmejor I don't blame Jake for feeling the way he does, and I think it's obvious a lot of his reasoning in the video is a result of nervousness about his future as Destiny dies. Branching out into other games is no guarantee of success on yt/twitch and Cross and Datto are the 2 personalities who were always going to translate exceptionally well to other games; Datto for his intelligence and insight and Cross just being an energetic and funny personality. They may have started in destiny, but those skills transfer. Meanwhile, Jake has tied a lot of his brand as a creator to being good at one thing: Destiny PvP, and stepping away from that has to be a terrifying prospect. I don't envy his situation at all, and while I don't think he's particularly bright and disagree on his recent takes, I do like his personality and wish him success moving forward.
A PVP centric player has far more options to branch out than a PVE player. Saying he has no options or future is simply not honest. I mean there are so many pvp shooters out there that are F2P. If he is a really good PVP player, he can easily dominate CS2, Valo, COD etc without trying at all. Unless he in reality really mediocre and relies heavily on his D2 inventory system of "PVP god rolls" and "triple stat + 100 int" armor to pull of his trials carries, then yeah he can't hang in an environment where everyone's equipment is finely balanced to the last digit. But as a PVP player, he should embrace that and rise up to the challenge.
I disagree that a break is all players needed. I took a break and played other games, and it made me realize I didn't want to play Destiny anymore because I'm dissatisfied with bigger issues around the game feeling stale due to things like power creep.
I know its a completely different game and working on completely separete rules, but its funny to me, that games like Risk of Rain 2 or Baldurs Gate III are allowing you to be that mad scientist with builds/ items and feel powerful for thinking outside of box, instead of having immune phases. Example: in RoR2 there is an item that is giving you extra X% of movement speed or other that is having a fixed chance of completely avoiding damage from 1 bullet/ attack. What will happen if you will stack 20 or 100 of them? Game is not saying NO. It will let you do this crazy stuff and it feels extremely fun to mess around numbers or items. Same with enemies in Baldur. You can hide bosses in your pocket with a spell and throw them of the bridges to die from impact. Nobody will stop you, if you will do it in smart way. Completely agree with bigger issues that piled years after years of neglection and final straw happened with LF release. I dont think it has anything with players burnout, rather seeing through facade of nice things, which you already saw before, which means, they are not best quality and in the long run, not stimulating playerbase enough, since many already saw/ played it before, either few seasons back or few years back. Break, if you are seeing through those patterns wont fix anything. So its all about three options: either those in power, will try different approach (and number of believers of that happening is melting badly); option two is as a player abandoning the ship or last one: you are staying with familiar what you know and agreeing on those terms. Thats it.
True. I've taken breaks before from Destiny before a new expansion/season so I can return with a fresh mindset. Now? Been playing other games, and now I don't wanna return unless things turn around. I was gonna get Final Shape regardless to see how it ends before maybe checking out, now? I need to be convinced.
Started with me right after the Witch Queen campaign. I loved that campaign and completed legend on all the classes. The raid released and it was a bad experience with all the disconnects and a clan disagreement. Then I saw a bunch of reviews and videos on Elden Ring......I bought it......and it reminded me of what games really should be. Fast forward another year and you get things like Baldurs Gate 3, Pal World, Hell Divers, etc. and you start to wonder if Destiny is even fun? Sure I like the shooting but all the systems behind it are either stale af or monetized. I still play Destiny but my play time has dropped steadily since Witch Queen released. Hoping Final Shape can kick ass and keep some momentum because I really like the bones of this game.
“As bad as Lightfall was, the structure of the missions was pretty good, the introduction of Strand was really good-that was so creative.” WHAT?? Finding Strand randomly in the middle of a deserted street was “really good”??
literally gaslightning himself. Compare it to us recovering the light in the red war. So much better. We all thought activision was the issue and we were wrong. Game has been hollow since the moon expansion.
Some people got the simpage. It was objectively awful and not creative or innovative in any way. I’ve really enjoyed the game a lot but people give way too much credit/slack on stuff like this or story telling in general to name few of many things.
Frrr! Lightfall was hands down the worst expansion of destiny. One of the worst DLC’s in video game history. The ONLY bright spot was the strand gameplay it was well done and fun, but that was it.
Reminder that the earth shattering discovery of an entire second human civilisation living in our Solar System occurred by us just spawning in the middle of Neomuna and our ghost being like ‘Hmm wow, I can hear signals! Follow the objective marker!’ with zero build up at all.
>No new enemy factions >3 new single entity enemies >Minimal additions to strand and stasis >Every season is just strikes+ >AI blindly runs at you >Writing feels phoned in I'm sure all the devs are working hard and not sitting on their hands, but that means they're all going to this seasonal structure that is TEMPORARY and just reskinned strikes. I think destiny did seasonal content the best, but time and time again. Whenever a game is live service and seasonal, it takes a huge dip and quality (looking at you suicide squad) in Destiny is not changing my opinion one bit. You get 5 minutes of story a week for seasons and then nothing. Live service just feels like I'm watching a corpse rot. After taking my rose tinted glasses off, I almost hope that Sony steps in and does something. Imagine a fully fleshed out destiny campaign with multiplayer features separately.
You know you’ve played Destiny for way too long when every argument is recycled from previous versions of Destiny in roughly 3 year cycles. Maybe time for me to quit
Zero interest in more enemies or anything you mention here. Don’t care about “story writing” never have. I don’t even listen to any of the story anyway and stats show most gamers Skip the story in most games (why they have a skip button)
Only FromSoft does reskins that are truly tolerable. Like looking at the Elden Ring Shadow Of The Erdtree trailer, i see reskinsall over. i mean basically all of elden ring is a reskin xD. But they do it so well. They could tell 100 stories on the cosmodrome. if they were all Baldurs gate 3 level of stories, i wouldnt give a wet gypsy fart where it took place.
I started playing way more single player games last year and it made it impossible for me to get back into d2 because playing those other games made me realized how unambitious Bungie is
@@andou_ryuu3205Yep. Bungie has been phoning it in for a long time. Also, the “live service” model really feels like the death of modern gaming. There are plenty of crappy games out there but when you go back to playing games that have an extremely clear goal of where they’re starting and an end… and it’s all in one game with expansions or add ins… that it is a much higher quality and healthy experience. It’s the same parallels to modern cinema in which almost anything that has a plan to be a franchise is AT BEST if you shut your brain completely off you can find entertainment in it but otherwise it’s complete poop. Then even though there’s also plenty of duds the best movies either stand alone or act as stand alone.
I agree that the main reason for the player fall off is because there is just better games out there. Apparently final shape is launching around the same time as the elden ring dlc so that's gonna be interesting.
More so, the realisation that Destiny 2 has always been a lackluster experience compared to some of these great games out there, especially ones with much lower budget.
I mean Destiny had it’s highest ever player count at the start of lightfall when the game was nearly 9 years old and it’s going to end lightfall with probably its lowest ever player count. Does “burnout” really make sense? Is there some threshold after 9 years when a games population suddenly has enough after player for 9 years previously and quits en masse? Or is it more likely that lightfall was bad.
Burnout is a bigger issue in pvp than pve. The biggest issue with destiny is it’s a looter shooter and the dev teams have gotten lazy with the looter(repurposed weapons, reskins) and with the shooter(reused content, seasonal content repetitive). They’ve had some wins and I still love this game and ten years is impressive but if they want to continue even longer those are the issues that need to be addressed.
The moment they confessed to not making content because of over developing (owhatever it was called) is the problem. That’s it. They confessed to not making new content on purpose.
It was "over delivery", from the Justin Truman 2022 GDC presentation on how to run a successful live service, that whole presentation has aged like milk in a busted fridge. It was telling that many of the many things he covered he never mentioned how good the game feels to play and how that more than any of the nonsense he spouted is one of the main reasons people keep playing or come back, they were making a conscious to distance themselves from old Bungie, the same old Bungie that did all the original work to create the engine, they've been reaping the rewards of better devs then they could ever hope to be.
The "making content is just hard in general" should have been the hugest Red Flag for players. The over delivering was just they spiting in the community's face. I haven't played Destiny 2 in 4 years but people got to accept that this IP is done. Bungie is over Destiny and they just don't pull the plug because it is their only revenue at the moment. The moment Marathon releases and if it proves more profitable than D2, it is the moment bungie will slowly pull the plug on that.
Hard agree with this. They literally said they hold their teams back from making cool stuff that they KNOW the players would like because they don't want to create patterns. Uhh Bungie? You're still creating a pattern. The pattern is lackluster content and a perpetually angry community. Bunch of absolute muppets running the show over there.
Overdeveloping ? They overdevelop and still drop stuff that is so glitched and broken ? 😂 I know I haven’t played in a while but bungie is smoking crack now
I would be genuinely surprised if bungie made it out of 2024 without a Sony take over, not saying it should happen i just think the writing is on the wall
Exactly! LF really dropped the ball and the subsequent seasons don't really help to fill that gap well. I stopped playing around the start of SOTD, came back for a few days for SOTW, havent played season of the Wish honestly. I'll log on for a few hours to tweak my fashion, but the game just doesn't hit like it used to.
IMO opinion the two things that have killed Destiny (for me), is pvp has been in a dreadful state for quite some time which was the go to activity between pve content drops. The second thing and probably the biggest annoyance for me is that they force content to be week by week every season. i don't remember one week from the next what the 45 second story bit was from the week prior after playing the same seasonal activity AGAIN. If we could go back to just being able to grind through it all and actually get a full story on our own timeframe, it'd be better.
Lmao, you should try warframe or path of exile. Destiny is leaps and bounds better an entry experience than those games and there are many others I could name.
@@oxsilathe only coping here is the one you're doing over your soon to be dead game. historically there have been too many complaints about throwing new lights into random ass campaigns and now the new difficulty adjustment making heroic nfs an absolute suck fest for anyone not running a particular loadout. hard riding bungo's meat won't save destiny 2.
Taking a break is something that USED to work for me, but no longer does. I would take breaks of like 2 to 6 months, then I'd come back and be IN IT once again. But now, I was all in for the entirety of the first season of Lightfall, but I've stepped back in at the start of the last 2 seasons and I've felt exactly the same as when I left. The issue now, at least for me, is that there's very little to care about anymore. I love dungeons and raids, but man, I have DONE that dance many, many times. It's still fun, but it doesn't really EXCITE me anymore. So the next thing I look for is sick gear to grind out... but the problem there is that I've been playing this game since the dawn of time, and nothing new REALLY feels all that exciting anymore. I got all the craftable weapons I wanted from Last Wish, and I had most everything I wanted that came out before that point, and ya know what? That's all I need. It does not matter if so-and-so rocket launcher is slightly better for DPS, or this new fusion is great for boss damage with such and such loadout, because it's all just degrees. If I want to do an activity, I have MORE than enough exotic armor and excellent rolls on legendary weapons. I can do WHATEVER I WANT, and anything they release now is just a slight spin or step up from what I could already do. And for what? It's just not enough anymore. Take a break, don't take a break, the issue is the same. For someone like me who has been playing for years, the game is just out of tricks. The weapons we get now aren't enticing enough to pull me away from the arsenal I've already accumulated, certainly not enough that I'd want to spend time grinding away to get any of it. Destiny really needs a new THING, something genuinely new and interesting, some kind of mode to catch the interest of someone like me who has already experienced what Destiny does ad nauseam. If they can't do that, crazy as it still sounds for me to say, I'm probably just gonna do Final Shape's campaign, PROBABLY the raid, and then dip. They can't just stick to the same old thing anymore, and no length of time off is going to change that.
YES. The game is essentially solved. Everyone has god rolls. Everyone has god armor. And loot isnt getting better its essentially staying the same or getting worse lol. Only argument for fun for me is coming up with builds that are memes or try to push the envelope of a certain aspect but even then, what am I using it for? Just more of the same crap lol its not engaging enough
At some point, you run into the limits of the game engine itself. Mechanics are things the game engine process. Making new mechanics is rough, and doesn't always pay off. I think at this point, bungie wants to finish with what was given, and maybe experiment after final shape.
How much more breaks should I take? I have played just 2 seasons in LF. I comeback this season and I am bored after 1 week of play. I don't know if I can get excited to play Final Shape after Lightfall
I was all-in on Destiny 2 for years. Since before Forsaken. Dropped off in Lightfall and just don't care anymore. Really really sad. They don't respect your time and money; way too much fomo and the $80 old seasonal ornaments was the final straw for me.
The platforms need to address the cheating holistically. Its a waste to every game developer trying to uniquely solve the cheating problem in their game
Personally, I cannot stand jake. His ego, Holier than thou attitude has always struck me wrong. His takes have always been pretty far fetched and I just don't care for him blaming everyone cheating and playing better than him.. There was a huge release schedule of absolutely amazing games last year and that really made people start to see the value that Bungie is presenting us, I think that was the nail in the coffin..
i've played since alpha D1, i uninstalled 2 months ago, logged in 2 nights ago after an hour i was bored and uninstalled again. It's heartbreaking theyve ruined this game.
I was a pvp player and don't see myself ever coming back, even if I love it. I think I've "been gone too long". There's more systems, more exotics...it's too much. I'll probably watch a video that explains the ending and that's it.
There's been a lot of focus on how unfriendly Destiny is to new players, but a lot of those critiques also apply to lapsed players. The seasonal model is so focused on driving constant engagement that if you do manage to disengage, it's really difficult to come back. Am I really going to watch 30-45 minutes of UA-cam videos to get caught up on the story? Am I going to do a deep dive on trying to figure out what the current meta is? This doesn't even get into trying to grind of exotics or other legendaries that might be key to new builds
I played from D1 to after LightFall... I have not played since and I really don't miss it. I think half of it is the mishandling and games Bungie played. The other half is the game has gone on for so long with really mediocre story telling. I'll watch the cutscene on how it ends but I think it's time for it to wrap up lol.
Yeah, the last expansion the felt like it majorly changed the game was Forsaken. Other expansions have had bits here and there like weapons crafting but there should've been way more to ship with expansions.
This game lost me years ago when they said I didn't complete the expansions fast enough then took them out of the game. Why do you expect a developer who removes paid for content to give you new satisfying experiences?
Yeah, I'm dropping off at Final Shape. Been playing since the Dark Below, and seeing all of these seasons and such in Destiny 2, whatever these broken up stories are after the expansion I don't think they will be good at all. They will quite simply just be long seasons like we're in now, but perhaps with one or two more exotics dabbed in. I don't think the story will be that interesting, as if I'm looking at it correctly, it wont be anything to do with characters we know like the Vanguard etc? Why should I care? Who should I care about? I understand a lot of that is a "play to find out" situation, but I feel most people will have the same mindset as me after the expansion. Its the END of the current saga, the one we've been with since Destiny 1. This is finally a time for someone like me to let go of the story happy.
The story has never been interesting, and my friends always get mad when I say that lol it's been a jumbled mess that never had any real direction since the very beginning
@@Stefantius I can agree, but I'm definitely fond of the characters. Even if its been a "I don't have time to explain what I don't have time to explain" situation since day one, I've always just been soft for the story, I just love the world. But I'm definitely ready to get off the Destiny train.
@@Stefantiusin campaigns maybe. Some are better than others but yeah i can see why you might say that, but i think the lore of Destiny’s universe is one of the most creative and mysterious and enticing pieces of fiction ever made. Hands down.
@@Grayves_X Well they claimed it would be the end of the Light and Dark saga. If there is no light and dark, what's the character narrative going to be?
Paul, don’t do watch-along react videos. They’re low effort and skate off of other people’s production work. This format, the video essay with relevant quotations, already exists and makes more sense for your channel.
My two fireteam partners took the last two and a half seasons off. Coaching them through it all is a bit of a chore so the disorientstion of returning is a thing.
I took 2 and a half seasons off too, I played 40 hours a week plus for awhile to catch up, that's a problem. I am caught up now, and doing the same as you coaching 4 people through coming back into the game. The whole 'catch up' is wild, Bungie need to fix it amongst other things. :)
As much as Destiny has had a huge impact on my life, and given me lifelong friends, I can’t deny that it is a franchise built off the ever tantalizing promise of “things will get even better!” We’ve been playing catchup on basic features since the first game launched in _2014,_ and are only just now getting to a spot where we can say Destiny 2 feels like a fleshed out MMO, and even that’s dubious at best considering half the game has been carved out to ease the technical load. What we’re seeing is the effects of a game initially only made to hold 1-2 years worth of content being transmogrified into something trying to hold 4-5 year’s worth at a time. It’s not sustainable for players or Bungie. As much as I hate to say it, they just need to stop. Put the game in maintenance mode, add most of the Vanilla and Forsaken content back in over a year or two, and then just stop. Create a Destiny 3 with all the features added over the years, with a robust MMO structure meant to handle content over a long period of time. Will this happen, or could it even happen? I don’t know. It just hurts to see a universe I love die from a thousand cuts. I hope I’m wrong.
The Strand introduction was not creative. It was completley deadbeat and uninspired - we literally found it in the middle of the street randomly and proceeded to have a videogamey "test your green magic on a bunch of useless enemies" followed by a plot cutscene that completely undermines that and blatantely ignores the player. I dunno what you're cooking there... You give me 15 minutes and i can come up with a better way to do it on the spot, as many others could.
Hope Sony shut them down completely. Destiny 2 is not a video game anymore. Its just an MTX store with an illusion of a video game. They deserve to be in the same shithole where Ubisoft is at.
The taking breaks thing is something that the entire industry needs to really reckon with. I think there are so many live-service games now, and they've amassed such a horrid reputation, that the model needs a serious reevaluation. Destiny, to me, was always at it's best when it was lite enough on content that I could play it alongside other games - not when it demanded all my gaming hours.
People need to distinguish the causation when it comes to the relation between lackluster content, the exploitative in game store and burnout. Burnout is the RESULT of the lack of content as well as unfulfilled promises from Bungie. Its not like people are getting burnout because the game is exactly what people want it to be according to Bungie and that they are just tired.
I think seasons really hurt d2 It makes devs design content that will be leaving so why build on anything. I wish we got really good engaging content tha gets updated and changed then the same seasonal activity. Seasonal activies really just arent it. More or less they are the same activity over and over. I want a new core mode like a horde mode or survial mode where you hold out for aslong as possible.
Got to disagree with you on the cheating issues Paul. Mod pack usage on console is way up and it’s hard not to run into a lobby that doesn’t have at least 1-2 players using them. The PC side has habitual cheaters that never seem to get banned or they get a slap on the wrist for the fifth time and allowed to continue playing the game after their time out. We just saw a 4 time worlds first player get banned for life and they’re not the first to be banned in that extreme way but PvP cheaters to my knowledge don’t get that treatment and instead are allowed to run rampant until finally something is done. I don’t think Jake overstated anything when it comes to the cheating issue and there are plenty of other streamers who agree with his assessment so I don’t know where you come off understating it. You might have hundreds of hours in PvP but Jake literally has thousands as well as Aztecross, True Vanguard and others who I think are qualified to make statements on cheating, a subject that Bungie doesn’t address enough .
^^^ this 100% - a little disappointed in Paul's take on this... Either intentionally or unintentionally, feel like he misconstrued a lot of the core points Jake was trying to make. Specifically to the cheating points - Jake was saying that he goes out of his way to hand deliver gamer tags, stats, and video evidence about cheaters, to bungie contacts, and they do nothing about it. I believe him. Because Jakes streams trials so regularly, is pretty dang easy to look up gamer tags, stats, and use his stream as evidence. Regardless of how often Paul actually engages with PVP, cheating IS rampant - on both consoles and pc - if you don't believe it - you're not looking closely enough.
Cheaters are perma banned I pvp theu just make new accounts so no it isn't a slap on the wrist. At best they could do hardware / ip bans but there are workarounds.
@@SlongestKongest you not wrong - but - specifically in trials - the ban results in them having to RE-BUY the yearly expansion to gain entry... I don't care what kind of cheater you are, you're gonna stop BUYING new accounts after the 10th time. There IS a limit to how many new accounts cheaters will be willing to make before they throw in the towel.
I play Trials every weekend and have since it launched. I have maybe seen an obvious cheater a handful of times. It's extremely rare for me. I think it's more of an issue for PC.
The story being on super tight rails with our “mentor” basically holding queue cards telling us when to feel urgent then switching to be calm then be urgent again…
Exactly, I barely feel like an actual person at all in the story. Also, it doesn't make it any better that ghost does all the talking, and all we ever do is shake our heads every once in a while. Because of this I feel sooooo disconnected, and with every passing season recently, it's only gotten worse.
I’ve watched Jake in his streams and he’s actually a very positive person and player who does sometimes have a bad session but salty isn’t the word I would use to describe him. Frustrated, maybe even disappointed are probably better options but not salty.
Jake is so annoying. Nobody needs to take a break from the game more than him. The game makes him actively angry and miserable. Dude play something else.
Bungie deleted content from the game that people paid for. They lied about the reasons why and lied about it coming back in an improved way. They re-released old content and called it new content and charged for it. The game became a completely chopped up unintelligible mess. 24 of the 25 original Destiny players on my friends list have quit for good between Forsaken & Lightfall. They're angry with Bungie and have zero trust left. Many of us can't wait for the complete collapse of Bungie and Sony taking over. Maybe in 5-10 years a Sony studio will do Destiny 3.
psychotic take, wishing for people to lose their jobs because curse of osiris got vaulted. it's a game, just quit like i did and stop whining about it.
Gloss right over Bungie deleting paid content. They've got a long track record of proven lies but go ahead and believe what you want. Sony taking over Bungie doesn't automatically mean that rank & file employees will lose their jobs. They could easily be better off with the change. As for the scumbag predator bosses that came up with semi-legal ways to create addicts and steal from customers - they ought to be behind bars. I'd settle for them never having anything to do with any more video games.
@@Storse Bungie being taken over by Sony doesn't mean rank & file employees would lose their jobs. In fact, they might end up better off. It's Bungie upper management that the Sony big boss called out recently.
I don’t agree that we will see more expansions with Destiny 2. The game is falling apart, from a technical standpoint, and it’s super old for a console title. Making content designed for last gen consoles is unlikely, considering the game’s age and all the technical issues we have experienced in recent years.
I agree. They should have stopped after witch queen and maybe focused on destiny 3. Doesn't have to be completely full with content at launch but utilizing the new Gen hardware could change the system that the game runs on
They officially announced that more expansions were coming, and we did get a current gen update (although some textures are still right from the D1 days). I still don't think that the game is up to par anyway, nor will it survive past the next year of content.
Haven't played in months because the game felt stale, tasteless Playing other games, taking a break won't be enough to reignite the love for it because i'll find exactely what i left. As datto said "i dont want more destiny, i want a better destiny" The game is just too unambitious. It has a skyhigh ceiling yet they are too afraid to improve
I think I Hate Everything was right when he said "The problem with the seasonal model is that it seems it has halted overall production [...] if each season added a strike or two, some pvp and gambit maps, then it would be reasonable to assume that the overall content package would only grow and enrich the scope with time." All these seasons and what do we have to show for it? A handful of missions, reskinned guns and repetitive seasonal activities
That's a big part of what sucks with seasons. Once they're gone, you're basically left with only transmog fodder and a handful of good weapons that will be outclassed pretty soon. Not exactly exciting at this point.
Jake is a PVP main. His thoughts were purely from PVP main player's perspective. I'm a PVE player since Day 1 D1 and I can say that I finally walked away from Destiny... No burnout here ... just tired if playing the same content, the same reskins, and being over-promised and under-delivered in every single season. This game is dead - story-wise, creativity-wise. DEAD. Even the recent hoverboards ... they blatantly copied Warframes K-drives even the moves etc. Bungie gave up on the game, and I don't want to support the studio that treats the player base like they have treated us for the past 3 years. Activision wasn't the problem, SONY was not the problem. Bungie is. I'm not interested in the Final Shape - it's gonna be garbage. Just say R.I.P. and move one.
My frustrations started years ago. After all the damage subclass 3.0 did to the warlock identity. Healing, devor, storm nades, etc etc handed out to everyone and gaining nothing much in return. My hopes rested on light fall. A brand new warlock class and possibly a DPS super to rival hunters and titans. Something unique and we got a reskin of nova bomb for a super that was yet again behind hunter and titans for DPS. Final shape we are getting a solar buddy as a super. I couldn't be less excited. During Beyond light they talked about doing a lot of work to staking buddies, child of old god, arc buddy, no time to explain portal but it never live up to the hype. Now we have threadings and are getting a solar buddy class for the final shape. It's clear that they set this design path out years ago and it's just lazy. My main complaint is that they haven't done anything innovative with warlock in years and I doubt final shape will change anything. The fact whisper or zero hour, mars, io, titan, raids etc etc still haven't returned from the vault also really bothers me. I'm really on the fence still for buying final shape.
The GDC presentation was the nail in the coffin for me. Bad game is bad; trash management is trash. Unless D2 is your livelihood, anyone putting money into that game, besides to satisfy the 10+ yr story sunk-cost fallacy, has no self-respect, I'm sorry.
A game like FFXIV promotes taking breaks, even the producer, Yoshi-P, says that its fine to take a break. The content will be there when you return. Destiny 2 meanwhile doesn't encourage taking breaks because if you do, you'll lose out on battle passes you paid for and seasonal stories/events. The problem is that Bungie refuses to deliver us meaningful content. Dawntrail teased the new 8-player raids, which takes place in Designation Nine, a cyberpunk city that's also a player hubzone. Thats fucking awesome to me. Final Shape just doesn't have me feeling hyped anymore. Maybe its because I'm getting old but the excitement I used to feel for a D2 expansion died with the release of Lightfall
Yeah, Jake's take on breaks was REALLY bad. Breaks only work when players can leave and come back easily and not miss anything. At current, they can't. Either they paid for an entire year of content, and NEED (or FEEL the need) to play that entire year to experience everything before the content leaves...or they're afraid of being away for a year or more and then coming back and missing out on either story beats or fun activities or whatever else. Until Bungie addresses that problem, "taking breaks" is only a bandaid to stem the bleeding of both player count and player investment. It's a non-solution. It helps nothing, it fixes nothing. When the game is mostly the same as when you left it, only MORE empty? Why bother sticking with it? AAA companies need to realize...giving players reason/method of returning easily FAAAAAAR outweighs keeping them "engaged" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year. Let them leave when they feel like, and keep the door as WIDE open as possible, so when they WANT to come back, they can slide back in like your favorite pair of shoes. Destiny doesn't do that. Breaks are impossible and/or solve nothing.
Honestly, I don't think your first statement is a universal truth either. Like many aspects of life, everything relies on individual experiences. For instance, while some players may return from a break feeling utterly disoriented, other people can find it akin to riding a bike-rusty at first, but quickly regain their muscle memory. The challenge with discussing such topics lies in recognizing the subjectivity of opinions. Personally, I enjoyed Lightfall's story and found it comprehensible, contrasting with others who struggled to grasp it. Additionally, like Jake's viewpoint, you're making far too many assumptions about community sentiment. Much of the discourse stems from only a fraction of the player base, as not everyone who plays Destiny engages in online social discussions to the same extent. Thus, making predictions about game retention solely based on the vocal minority "the perceptible majority" is impractical. The fact of the mater is that the game still has a dedicated player base who are largely happy with it, and that shouldn't be discounted.
Go I love paul and watch all his videos put some of his points here just sound so dumb, like you mean bungie can’t go into the backend, filter players by KDA and have a single employee just all day ban the ones that are blatant cheating. And that’s just a single problem. UA-cam PVP content creators and streamers bring the game to more of the community and push and grow the community. Now they are all taking breaks and or just not playing PVP anymore
The lack of weapon creativity killed the game. Adding stuff like rocket sidearm is great. But the last thing new we got like that was the glaive. Reskins and lack of weapon design is a big part.
No one uses creative weapons, glaives are really really good yet no one uses them. Salvation's grip is super fun now and no one uses it. Manticore is also super unique and no one uses it. Ex diris is fun. There are a lot of creativity in the game, it is just that apparently everyone plays gms only so nothing is viable
@@carlosflores4179brother in christ, around 10% of steam players have EVER completed a GM. “Everyone doing GMs” is soooo wrong. But i see what you mean, ppl use the best meta, they ignore some more unique, slightly worse stuff. Also, don’t kid yourself. Glaives are not “really really good.” They’re okay at best
@@MockinFrog that's my point dude. No one plays gms!!! But they use load outs as if they were. Next time I'll put a disclaimer so you can understand sarcasm. Having 95% damage resist makes them really really good. But you already knew that
@carlosflores4179 I've used alot of cool stuff regardless of meta. So I'm speaking I guess more towards legendary and secondary weapon. Maybe a gun that deploys a void devuff if the clip hits but its not powerful. Swapping weapons and making combos is what's lacking.
Destiny has a ton of issues obviously. The real problem is that the game is developed around time-gating and mtx. It infects every part of the game and it is slowly killing D2. They created a pipeline mechanism to churn out as much low effort content as possible all while increasing prices and monetizing everything. No wonder people are burnt out. Jake is more worried about stream revenue than really fixing anything. He just got a bunch of great changes to pvp so hopefully he's happy.
Forsaken was the peak for me by a mile. Witch Queen was not great to me. I don't get the affection. I also play pvp and Witch Queen added nothing positve, continued the ability spam started with stasis' introduction. I think if you looked at trailers for witch queen there's nothing for pvp players so It's just not good where as Forsaken was good overall, but also added an updated comp, pinnacle weapons, luna's and not forgotten quests which drastically engaged people in pvp. Added maps. I mean it's not a contest. I guess if you focus on a story maybe Witch queen resonated, i mostly skipped cut scenes honestly. I honestly couldnt' tell you how it even ends or a single memorable mission. I'm sure others had a different experence but for me forsaken was the better one and the high point of destiny only bested by Taken King. And as. final point i think the dreaming city was far more interesting a map to do things in and explore than the throne world.
Thank you for not just sitting there and pausing every 5 seconds to say something while watching someone else's video. i actually had a reason to go watch his video, that he put work into, to watch this one, instead of just watching it all here. He gets my view and not only just the watcher, and subsequently everyone else watching that reaction, that now have no need to go watch it afterwards. This is how react "content" should be done.
Destiny will always have a special place in my heart, but i broke up with destiny after stasis was introduced and never looked back... I've been way happier playing other games. All Jake was doing was telling like it is. Sometimes, you just have to wake up.
Destiny 2 is about to have a similiar moment that FFXIV had recently. Endwalker felt like the end for me. I checked the first 2 patches after that but i felt like i mentally checked out and haven't played in almost a year. Their next expansion doesnt shake up gameplay enough for me to want to invest in another 10 year old storyline which are admitedily good. And Destiny 2 is similiar imo, about to have its 10 year storyline end with promise of new storylines but the expansion itself doesn't have enough to keep me after i see the Light and Dark saga through. No new enemy faction, no new subclass, no new weapon type or major game system like crafting was , im just in it for the story at this point.
Bungie has mismanaged the F out of destiny. They need upper management changes. Sure most streamers have alot of confirmation bias but if you aren't a PVP main i dont trust your dismissal of cheaters. It just sounds like someone at Bungie PR got ahold of you.
Before anti cheat Cheating was WILD. If you played 5 matches you definitely played a cheater, not including Xim. Since Bungie rolled out anti cheat it has gotten much better but anti cheat has to have constant attention because it’s an arms race with cheat devs.
Jake thinks absence makes the heart grow fonder when it comes to Destiny. So, I recommend leaving it permanently - and then you will really love it. Interesting how people are not burned out playing Counter Strike.
I stopped playing a year ago Essentially your killing the same enemies with the same weapons for 6 years now in a new fancy map with each major expansion. They really shit the bed with the last expansion because I could care less where the story goes after that. I think they went 1 maybe 2 years too long and we need a complete refresh with Destiny 3
PVP has always been the secret sauce for value-added content that extended the game when the story lagged. I agree with Jake. Anything that weakens PVP like cheaters and stale maps and poor matchmaking weaken the entire game.
I had a friend that played destiny for at least 3k hours in D1 and 2, took time away after forsaken, tried to come back with Shadowkeep and just couldn’t find a way to understand everything that was happening
People always say that if WoW can stay fresh for decades, why can’t Destiny? Well, every time a new WoW expansion drops old gear becomes irrelevant and players basically start over. This is the case for pretty much every MMO that has stood the test of time. Destiny tried doing that with sunsetting and power caps, but the player base imploded. So now, Bungie is in this situation where almost all gear ever released must be usable and balanced, and any new gear has to be slightly better or else players will complain that there’s nothing to grind for… New weapons come out? I already have crafted versions from two years ago that are better. New armor comes out? I already have high-stat artifice armor from 3 years ago that’s better. Textbook perpetual power creep. Really the only thing they can do is churn out completely new weapon types, which takes an insane amount of resources and is still only a temporary solution, because players will get their perfect role and then start complaining again. Without hard resets, any game starts to feel stale, yet the community doesn’t want hard resets. See the problem?
For one Destiny isnt an MMO. The reason the gear grind is relevant in WoW, is because there is soo much new content in the expansions to obtain it in. An MMO expansion has 100x more progression content than Bungie can put out. In Destiny you get 1 new little zone to do stuff in and its back to the old and tired content to grind out the rest. Thats a big reason why sunsetting was not well recieved. Real MMOs dont do this.
Hard reset with the same bullshit content year after year won’t keep players either. Sunsetting didn’t work because people looked at this game from a progression collection stand point. If I recall I remember people on the Destiny 1 team even using that classification. The content in a game like WoW back in the day was bigger than the entire Destiny universe in 1 expansion.
@@Mybutteredpopcorn Hell, add to the fact MMOs dont remove entire sections of games and expansions. Hell Swtor still has the base game, its expansions, and everything that came out, yet hasn't really removed anything.
The issue is they took away the grind. The power level grind is nowhere, the gear and builds don't change. I played thousands of hours but took a break 3 seasons ago and came back to nothing really. No actual need to grind anything other than just the storyline. My armor and weapons still meta and OP.. I haven't had a need to change anything in a few seasons. Yeah I don't have the newest weapons craftable but do I really need them? Not really. There's just no grind anymore. Weapon crafting and no leveling is what really hurt us I think. I spend an hour grinding dungeons on Diablo 4 looking for gear and feel like I've actually done something. You load D2 and spend an hour to run like 2 strikes and don't actually feel like you've done anything. It's all more like chores at this point.
I had a few problems with Jake's video while not entirely disagreeing. Some of it was a matter of perspective and some of it was my intense suspicion of anyone claiming to have a "truth" to share. I think that, rhetorically speaking, it was a mistake to begin by claiming that burnout is the problem (and he treats it like a problem with no real origin aside from over-playing). Ignoring context like this places blame on the player, not the source of the burnout (disappointment in Lightfall and other alienation of fans). Since the thing killing the game isn't disaffected fans-it's bad management-his argument about the "truth" was off to a bad start. He went on to explain a lot of Bungie's bad business decisions but by the time he got around to bringing it up it just felt like an afterthought, not a cause. The whole video was a great example of why you should default to your basic writing course (drop your thesis, support it in the body). The problem with cheaters is another source of burnout. Everything that compromises fun is likely to promote burnout. Why do we have cheater? Is it a result of burnout? No, it's a result of bad management. If we want to focus on cheaters in trials, we have to admit that they are paying customers (you need the most recent expansion) and every MMO wrestles with how many cheaters they can ban because they are active/paying players and those inflated numbers are used in advertising to show that the game is healthy. But like this video says, cheaters aren't necessarily killing the game, just PvP. As for the prediction that Final Shape is the final major DLC, it's hard to say. We have no information so it's all just speculation in the absence of evidence. Again, not a truth, just his assessment.
Yasss. Cook him Paul. Jk but for real, I don’t think taking a break from the game and coming back to the sameee shit is gonna make it feel fresh lol this seasonal weekly timegated model has been crap since the beginning and will continue to be crap. I might give the episodes a chance if they aren’t timegated, assuming TFS doesn’t completely blow of course.
I disagree with the expansions. I can absolutely see Final Shape being the final expansion and next year them selling a season 2 bundle for 100.00 that comes with a bunch of junk and silver. Bungie's burn rate is too high has having essentially 5 developed cycles a year is unsustainable and reducing that to 4 isn't much of a change.
1:05 Definitely not burnout in my case. Used to love this game, and was really looking forward to Lightfall. I wanted to love it, and tried playing, but dude, I haven't played this game (outside of the bi-monthly gambit matches for the hell of it) since May of last year. At most I check out the intro mission each time a new season drops, but that's every three months, and even then, it just gets boring. It just feels like I'm always ultimately going to the same places and doing the same general things as I did 4 years ago, just narratively it's supposed to be seen as way more significant. Riven looked cool in that first mission though.
I started playing D2 in Forsaken. I have over 8000hrs in the game so it’s safe to say I love the game. I took a break and didn’t play Witch Queen. Came back for lightfall. Haven’t played since the season of the deep as there’s nothing that inspires me to take on the ridiculous grind. Can’t do it anymore. I really want The Final Shape to be great to drag me back but I don’t have high hopes. All my mates quit years ago and there is no chance of them coming back
The game just feels lazy. I've been playing since the beginning of Destiny and its changed so so much over time. In terms of gameplay the game is far better. In terms of story it feels lazy and like it turned into fanfic of itself. Which, considering the franchise is a decade old, its likely that there are devs at Bungie who DID make fanfic! At this point it feels like the game concept-creeped so hard that its kind of impossible to not just nuke the story in The Final Shape.
If they end the Light and Dark saga, its over, its no longer Destiny. Destiny is, in terms of its bones, a science-fantasy universe filled with magic. The more they try and explain how everything works the less and less people care about the story as it loses its wonder and mystery.
Agreed. Destiny stay alive based primarily on momentum. The story and gunplay carried a lot of it and once it hit the wall with lightfall and the weaker seasons, people realized just how hollow the game became. It slowed so much that players could look around and realize that it wasn’t fun anymore. Weak story, a grind that poorly rewarded your time, and mundane activities. Gunplay can’t carry a game that’s not fun to play.
I continue to play GMs still, and I think the game plays really well. However, since I have been playing Destiny 2 since day 1, I’m starting to see a problem which is related to the enemies with deal with. First year was very cabal focused. Second year introduced a new race, but was taken focused, and that race had an impact on the campaign, but less so on the end game. Year 3 and Shadowkeep gives us a bit of Hive and a bit of Vex. Year 4 puts the spotlight on Fallen (with a bit of vex). Year 5, with Witch Queen, shifts the focus for the Hive again, but adds a really great story (for Destiny), and lets the race introduced in year 2 finally shine. Lightfall starts running out of options here when it comes to enemy rotation, and goes back to the Cabal. Where do we go from there? I feel like we are at a point where no matter what new activity you end up creating, everything still feels VERY similar to anything I have played before. The 3.0 system gave us some temporary boost. Sure, no many new enemies, but now what we do ourselves is actually different. But now that 3.0 is out of the way, and now that we have dealt with almost every permutation of races, what do we really put on the table so that new content feels enticing to play? Just adding two witness units might not do it for me. To be clear, we don’t even need a new race imo. But you need something that changes the way encounters take place. Consider taken psions. They spice things up because they can clone themselves. In recent years, we got a few very tanky enemies that force you to change engagements. Wyverns, tormentors, light hive. But they are just small drops in a big game. When you add one or two new strikes with a new year expansion, remember that 90% of the strikes are still the exact same. My dream would be that there was a system where somehow new releases had features that could propagate to every single activity to make them feel fresh again.
I dont think it helps too that the new tanky enemies just feel like basic variations of each other in terms of behaviour too. They're all quite aggressive with high damaging attacks, but what this means from the player perspective is all you really do for any of them is pop out, empty rounds into them, and then move away to gain space as it rushes you. It feels very samey. The Tormentors for example don't feel that different to Hive Lightbearers, the main difference is just the insta-kill grab, but even that's not really an interesting mechanic since it just encourages the same tactics anyway.
@@jimbob1862 I would agree with you. Still better than nothing, but yeah, they have focused on tanky enemies recently. I oftentimes think of the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer as a reference point for engaging units. Tormentors remind me a bit of Banshees in that game, though banshees are a bit slower. They are tanky, you have to keep away from them, and they can insta-kill you if they get close. But you also had phantoms. Also can instakill you when close, but their strategy is stealth, and they are actually quite squishy in comparison. But Bungie adds so few units every year that 90% of the engagements feel the exact same they felt years ago.
It also doesn't help that the very few new mobs we've had to face are all restrained to a couple missions each. That's about it. Besides the campaign missions, they really aren't anywhere in the game.
Well, saying TFS is the last expansion they're gonna make did not make me want to preorder TFS. After Lightfall, it just felt like they were over Destiny and trying to milk as much cash as they could out of the players before Marathon. I'm already tired of Destiny, and making it look like they were winding down on it just made me make my decision to jump off earlier. If they are going to make more expansions, I think keeping that secret is very misguided for the situation they've put themselves in.
I think people would be more interested in taking breaks from D2 if the game's systems didn't inherently punish you for that. FOMO has been pretty well baked into the game at this point.
Definitely. I tried to "take a break" but the anxiety of not getting my season pass done before it disappeared forever actually made me say fuck it and not come back at all. The FOMO is so bad that is actively makes it difficult to come back to the game while you've been gone. If I've missed 1 season already, what's 1 more? Or another? Or an expansion?
I thought this when I first heard him say it the game is not designed for you to take a break
I'm a glad I took a break.
Now I actually don't want to play.
It feels nice.
They removed all FOMO at this point. It's what is killing the game.
@@Five20three No? You're aware all the passes and stories of this year's seasons are all going away forever this summer, right?
What do you think FOMO means...?
Gambit is so dead drifter became a hell diver😂😂
😂😂 frfr
"surprise surprise surprise" 😂
Thats the same VA right? When I heard it, I thought I was taking crazy pills
Todd is everywhere. He cannot be stopped.
He also became a pirate in Starfield
The Pyramids being empty is the kind of unforgivable sin that nothing can really help absolve at this point in the game. I just want it finished.
Lol the empty city!
Agreed, there’s something that feels so deflating about the most hyped era of the game also being when Bungie is at their most strained and limited. The Witness being yet another “civilization that feels betrayed by The Traveler” was also a huge bummer.
The pyramids are the greatest metaphor for Destiny itself. @@gavo7911
the pyramids first seen in lightfall or my most recent memory was so intriguing like you don't ever see this really that way and just sorta hanging them out to dry seems sad i could also say it was when imo eris morn started to become relevant as you don't see much of her unless your on the moon a lot but ya :P
Don't Vow of the Disciple and Root of Nightmares both take place inside Pyramid ships? This would imply they aren't empty and infact carry some of the witness's most powerful disciples.
Played from day 1, got 6k hours in both games... Burnout isnt the issue.... The same repetitive bullshit, reskins, no truly unique gear, armor useless... Has finally taken its toll. I'm burned out from their lazy decisions. I clamor for more but not in the current state.
And no I'm not returning for final shape, it's just more of the same and an ending that to me is just not worth it to experience.
The game went for 10 years, it was a good run
Edit: just to clarify, yes I've burnout from shitty reskins and weapons that now all feel the same in their archetypes. If the game shifted and we had truly new weapons and no more reskins, more motivation for crucible modes like a return to pinnacles, and armors became worthy again, a new enemy or two ffs already, if the game actually changed in these manners I'd return in a heartbeat. It isn't the gunplay or playing the game, Its the best out there... I clamor for more but not in it's current state.
Let's put it this way... Their is no more fomo, because you'll get the same stuff eventually even if you miss it it'll just be wrapped in a different skin etc
the weapons are older weapons with gunk slapped on top of it. what happened to the game i love
Bro just come back and finish the fight for final shape
@@cvig1075 been happening since d1.
Thank you for this comment. This is real as fuck
"Burnout isn't the issue...it's the same repetitive bullshit.."
Brother this sounds a lot like burnout lmao you've played for 6,000 HOURS, of COURSE everything is going to be repetitive and you'll be tired of everything.
I think I've maybe put more 1,000 hours on a small handful of games, I cannot imagine playing a game for 6,000 hours. I'd lose my mind. Thats insane. You don't need new content at that point, you need a new game.
The introduction of Strand (story wise) was terrible and stupid.
It was supposed to be part of witch queen but they fumbled on the 1 yard line. Then gaslit everyone into believing it was on purpose. 😂
Glad I am not the only one who thought so.
Yeah, Paul is wrong.
It felt super underwhelming and not at all necessary to the narrative of Lightfall or overall story. It was just a new power we had access to.
Fun, but explanation wise: meh.
@@ogChaakaStrand would have made zero sense in Witch Queen and I’m glad we didn’t get it then. Just because it’s green doesn’t automatically mean it was supposed to be in WQ.
It felt like there was a poorly conceived and executed story that they at some decided to shoehorn strand in to. The strand part didn't work as part of the story and the story itself didn't work so even though the structure of the missions was similar to Witch Queen from a broad perspective, the expansion failed badly.
There needs to be a better mechanism to deal with the FOMO and confusion when taking breaks: exotic weapons, story points etc. Burnout is a huge issue as you’ve mentioned.
Honestly, for me, The issue is that they don't have anything that would even give me FOMO
Fomo shouldnt be possible in 2024 tbh most people arent doing endgame so the weapons they miss out on mean nothing because they just play at level content.
Season pass weapons should 100% not be in/going into the monument kiosk. That should be reserved solely for weapons that had meaningful, dedicated methods of acquisition. (Raids/missions) A season pass is not a meaningful source
bungie: we heard your complaints. we will now sunset content twice as often
There is its called not giving a fuck haha
Essentially blaming the community for having expectations of a game is absolutely the wildest take I’ve ever seen. In the video he asserts that he hasn’t been sponsored by Bungie but my god the meat riding is crazy. The only issue he presents with the game is PvP and cheaters, which he contradicts himself for anyway. On one hand, he thinks the community is in the wrong about expecting good future content. On the other, he expects Bungie to do something about cheaters when they’re barely keeping themselves afloat with PvE. Jake lost me on this one
You're talking about a guy who calls you a cheater if you 3 tap him with a hand cannon.
Lost me a long time ago.
He's only worried about his streaming revenue and UA-cam revenue. The pvp is really all he cares about. If he could farm low K/D players all day he'd be in heaven. I've never respected his opinion regarding much of D2.
@shadyrebob5999
Jake is a 1 trick pony, he'll never succeed at any other game, so he's got to milk destiny.
I mean, that's the same guy who complains about there being a so-called cheater on the opposing team every single time he loses a match. Not expecting anything from him. He attracts a similar crowd.
His entire career hinges upon destinys success. He’s not sponsored by them no no, it’s so much worse. His entire livelihood is dependent on Bungie, not just one paycheck. You can’t trust a single word that leaves the mouths of creators like that.
Listen, Jake seems like a nice guy, but his takes on the game and especially the business side of it make it quite obvious that he doesn't have much experience outside of being a content creator and I'm glad you and others are pushing back on this take.
I'm not a 10 year veteran of the game, I started less than a year ago, and within that time frame I went flawless in trials a few times, completed every raid, and gilded conqueror and iron lord. I love the raids, the dungeons are phenomenal and are some of the most unique experiences I've had in gaming, but with that said I haven't played since about 2 weeks into this season, and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I had got to a point where I realized that I had pretty much everything I wanted (all the raid/ seasonal weapons I wanted crafted or rolled) and I was launching the game to find something to work towards, not to have fun. It became a checklist simulator and as someone who is goal oriented it was like crack when I started, but as it wore off so did the novelty. When you realize that you're on a hamster wheel (which I already knew to begin with) but the people around you are no longer getting on it with you and everyone else you see on the wheel hates it, you start to question your choices.
To counter your point about pvp, my "quit moment" as it were, was playing the same cheater twice in a row on my lighthouse game in trials the first week of the season and realizing the guy had been cheating for 4 straight seasons without repercussions.
Jake is just such a whiner, thinks more people care about PvP than actually do, says he's taking a break from the game yet here he is doing trials carries every week, dude is a joke
@@waaaluigifacts Jake is a clown he gets so butthurt when a enemy team dominates him says PvP needs to be good l o l no one cares about PvP
at this point Jake is better off trying other games, I mean look at Datto who's the literal quintessential Destiny gamer making good content with other games and actually having fun with said games.
Cross is another guy doing the same (even if he's misleading with video titles and kinda obnoxious lmao), Jake just needs to hang it up until Final Shape releases and actually realize that some people just aren't fixated in PvP anymore like he is.
@pipexelmejor I don't blame Jake for feeling the way he does, and I think it's obvious a lot of his reasoning in the video is a result of nervousness about his future as Destiny dies. Branching out into other games is no guarantee of success on yt/twitch and Cross and Datto are the 2 personalities who were always going to translate exceptionally well to other games; Datto for his intelligence and insight and Cross just being an energetic and funny personality. They may have started in destiny, but those skills transfer.
Meanwhile, Jake has tied a lot of his brand as a creator to being good at one thing: Destiny PvP, and stepping away from that has to be a terrifying prospect. I don't envy his situation at all, and while I don't think he's particularly bright and disagree on his recent takes, I do like his personality and wish him success moving forward.
A PVP centric player has far more options to branch out than a PVE player. Saying he has no options or future is simply not honest.
I mean there are so many pvp shooters out there that are F2P. If he is a really good PVP player, he can easily dominate CS2, Valo, COD etc without trying at all.
Unless he in reality really mediocre and relies heavily on his D2 inventory system of "PVP god rolls" and "triple stat + 100 int" armor to pull of his trials carries, then yeah he can't hang in an environment where everyone's equipment is finely balanced to the last digit. But as a PVP player, he should embrace that and rise up to the challenge.
I disagree that a break is all players needed. I took a break and played other games, and it made me realize I didn't want to play Destiny anymore because I'm dissatisfied with bigger issues around the game feeling stale due to things like power creep.
True. Especially after lightfall for me. I always took a break but now the games not even downloaded
I know its a completely different game and working on completely separete rules, but its funny to me, that games like Risk of Rain 2 or Baldurs Gate III are allowing you to be that mad scientist with builds/ items and feel powerful for thinking outside of box, instead of having immune phases. Example: in RoR2 there is an item that is giving you extra X% of movement speed or other that is having a fixed chance of completely avoiding damage from 1 bullet/ attack. What will happen if you will stack 20 or 100 of them? Game is not saying NO. It will let you do this crazy stuff and it feels extremely fun to mess around numbers or items.
Same with enemies in Baldur. You can hide bosses in your pocket with a spell and throw them of the bridges to die from impact. Nobody will stop you, if you will do it in smart way.
Completely agree with bigger issues that piled years after years of neglection and final straw happened with LF release. I dont think it has anything with players burnout, rather seeing through facade of nice things, which you already saw before, which means, they are not best quality and in the long run, not stimulating playerbase enough, since many already saw/ played it before, either few seasons back or few years back.
Break, if you are seeing through those patterns wont fix anything. So its all about three options: either those in power, will try different approach (and number of believers of that happening is melting badly); option two is as a player abandoning the ship or last one: you are staying with familiar what you know and agreeing on those terms. Thats it.
True. I've taken breaks before from Destiny before a new expansion/season so I can return with a fresh mindset. Now? Been playing other games, and now I don't wanna return unless things turn around. I was gonna get Final Shape regardless to see how it ends before maybe checking out, now? I need to be convinced.
Started with me right after the Witch Queen campaign. I loved that campaign and completed legend on all the classes. The raid released and it was a bad experience with all the disconnects and a clan disagreement.
Then I saw a bunch of reviews and videos on Elden Ring......I bought it......and it reminded me of what games really should be. Fast forward another year and you get things like Baldurs Gate 3, Pal World, Hell Divers, etc. and you start to wonder if Destiny is even fun? Sure I like the shooting but all the systems behind it are either stale af or monetized.
I still play Destiny but my play time has dropped steadily since Witch Queen released. Hoping Final Shape can kick ass and keep some momentum because I really like the bones of this game.
💯
“As bad as Lightfall was, the structure of the missions was pretty good, the introduction of Strand was really good-that was so creative.”
WHAT?? Finding Strand randomly in the middle of a deserted street was “really good”??
correction: found it on a random roof
totally different c:
literally gaslightning himself. Compare it to us recovering the light in the red war. So much better. We all thought activision was the issue and we were wrong. Game has been hollow since the moon expansion.
Some people got the simpage.
It was objectively awful and not creative or innovative in any way.
I’ve really enjoyed the game a lot but people give way too much credit/slack on stuff like this or story telling in general to name few of many things.
Frrr! Lightfall was hands down the worst expansion of destiny. One of the worst DLC’s in video game history. The ONLY bright spot was the strand gameplay it was well done and fun, but that was it.
Reminder that the earth shattering discovery of an entire second human civilisation living in our Solar System occurred by us just spawning in the middle of Neomuna and our ghost being like ‘Hmm wow, I can hear signals! Follow the objective marker!’ with zero build up at all.
>No new enemy factions
>3 new single entity enemies
>Minimal additions to strand and stasis
>Every season is just strikes+
>AI blindly runs at you
>Writing feels phoned in
I'm sure all the devs are working hard and not sitting on their hands, but that means they're all going to this seasonal structure that is TEMPORARY and just reskinned strikes. I think destiny did seasonal content the best, but time and time again. Whenever a game is live service and seasonal, it takes a huge dip and quality (looking at you suicide squad) in Destiny is not changing my opinion one bit. You get 5 minutes of story a week for seasons and then nothing. Live service just feels like I'm watching a corpse rot.
After taking my rose tinted glasses off, I almost hope that Sony steps in and does something. Imagine a fully fleshed out destiny campaign with multiplayer features separately.
The 5 minute story thing is basically the point of episodes. It's the reasoning they gave for changing the format
Huh, see I don’t care about any of this
You know you’ve played Destiny for way too long when every argument is recycled from previous versions of Destiny in roughly 3 year cycles. Maybe time for me to quit
Zero interest in more enemies or anything you mention here. Don’t care about “story writing” never have. I don’t even listen to any of the story anyway and stats show most gamers Skip the story in most games (why they have a skip button)
Only FromSoft does reskins that are truly tolerable. Like looking at the Elden Ring Shadow Of The Erdtree trailer, i see reskinsall over. i mean basically all of elden ring is a reskin xD. But they do it so well. They could tell 100 stories on the cosmodrome. if they were all Baldurs gate 3 level of stories, i wouldnt give a wet gypsy fart where it took place.
Simply, there were better games to play last year. What people came back to was a bad experience.
I started playing way more single player games last year and it made it impossible for me to get back into d2 because playing those other games made me realized how unambitious Bungie is
@@andou_ryuu3205Yep. Bungie has been phoning it in for a long time.
Also, the “live service” model really feels like the death of modern gaming.
There are plenty of crappy games out there but when you go back to playing games that have an extremely clear goal of where they’re starting and an end… and it’s all in one game with expansions or add ins… that it is a much higher quality and healthy experience.
It’s the same parallels to modern cinema in which almost anything that has a plan to be a franchise is AT BEST if you shut your brain completely off you can find entertainment in it but otherwise it’s complete poop. Then even though there’s also plenty of duds the best movies either stand alone or act as stand alone.
I agree that the main reason for the player fall off is because there is just better games out there. Apparently final shape is launching around the same time as the elden ring dlc so that's gonna be interesting.
Lol Bungie probably pissed @@harrymarshall4080
More so, the realisation that Destiny 2 has always been a lackluster experience compared to some of these great games out there, especially ones with much lower budget.
I mean Destiny had it’s highest ever player count at the start of lightfall when the game was nearly 9 years old and it’s going to end lightfall with probably its lowest ever player count. Does “burnout” really make sense? Is there some threshold after 9 years when a games population suddenly has enough after player for 9 years previously and quits en masse? Or is it more likely that lightfall was bad.
I call it "people realize D2 is shit and Bungie sucks and bailed"
Burnout is a bigger issue in pvp than pve. The biggest issue with destiny is it’s a looter shooter and the dev teams have gotten lazy with the looter(repurposed weapons, reskins) and with the shooter(reused content, seasonal content repetitive). They’ve had some wins and I still love this game and ten years is impressive but if they want to continue even longer those are the issues that need to be addressed.
The moment they confessed to not making content because of over developing (owhatever it was called) is the problem. That’s it. They confessed to not making new content on purpose.
True, and it's funny that players still expect Destiny to get any better after they said that.
It was "over delivery", from the Justin Truman 2022 GDC presentation on how to run a successful live service, that whole presentation has aged like milk in a busted fridge. It was telling that many of the many things he covered he never mentioned how good the game feels to play and how that more than any of the nonsense he spouted is one of the main reasons people keep playing or come back, they were making a conscious to distance themselves from old Bungie, the same old Bungie that did all the original work to create the engine, they've been reaping the rewards of better devs then they could ever hope to be.
The "making content is just hard in general" should have been the hugest Red Flag for players. The over delivering was just they spiting in the community's face. I haven't played Destiny 2 in 4 years but people got to accept that this IP is done. Bungie is over Destiny and they just don't pull the plug because it is their only revenue at the moment. The moment Marathon releases and if it proves more profitable than D2, it is the moment bungie will slowly pull the plug on that.
Hard agree with this. They literally said they hold their teams back from making cool stuff that they KNOW the players would like because they don't want to create patterns.
Uhh Bungie? You're still creating a pattern. The pattern is lackluster content and a perpetually angry community. Bunch of absolute muppets running the show over there.
Overdeveloping ? They overdevelop and still drop stuff that is so glitched and broken ? 😂 I know I haven’t played in a while but bungie is smoking crack now
Damn Paul, you look like you could use a nice cup of LIBER-TEA!
He needs to do his part. We’re getting shredded out here in the name of Democracy!
I would be genuinely surprised if bungie made it out of 2024 without a Sony take over, not saying it should happen i just think the writing is on the wall
No, it should happen. Bungie made their bed with inept executives, poor leadership, no oversight, and with their general malfeasance.
@waywardson8474 this company is s cockroach. They will survive. Somehow. I don't know how. But they will survive
I have taken breaks. After returning from the most recent, I immediately remembered why I stopped last time.
these people are on some serious copium, the hard stuff.
Exactly! LF really dropped the ball and the subsequent seasons don't really help to fill that gap well. I stopped playing around the start of SOTD, came back for a few days for SOTW, havent played season of the Wish honestly. I'll log on for a few hours to tweak my fashion, but the game just doesn't hit like it used to.
Don't be sorry
Be better
IMO opinion the two things that have killed Destiny (for me), is pvp has been in a dreadful state for quite some time which was the go to activity between pve content drops. The second thing and probably the biggest annoyance for me is that they force content to be week by week every season. i don't remember one week from the next what the 45 second story bit was from the week prior after playing the same seasonal activity AGAIN. If we could go back to just being able to grind through it all and actually get a full story on our own timeframe, it'd be better.
We have literally the worst new player entry experience in gaming history in D2, getting new players to play is impossible
No new players is bad news for the game
Lmao, you should try warframe or path of exile. Destiny is leaps and bounds better an entry experience than those games and there are many others I could name.
@@oxsilaYeeeeah no, warframe's new player experience blows this convoluted mess out of the water
@@LN-lr4rg It does not you're majorly coping🤣
@@oxsilathe only coping here is the one you're doing over your soon to be dead game. historically there have been too many complaints about throwing new lights into random ass campaigns and now the new difficulty adjustment making heroic nfs an absolute suck fest for anyone not running a particular loadout. hard riding bungo's meat won't save destiny 2.
Taking a break is something that USED to work for me, but no longer does. I would take breaks of like 2 to 6 months, then I'd come back and be IN IT once again. But now, I was all in for the entirety of the first season of Lightfall, but I've stepped back in at the start of the last 2 seasons and I've felt exactly the same as when I left. The issue now, at least for me, is that there's very little to care about anymore. I love dungeons and raids, but man, I have DONE that dance many, many times. It's still fun, but it doesn't really EXCITE me anymore. So the next thing I look for is sick gear to grind out... but the problem there is that I've been playing this game since the dawn of time, and nothing new REALLY feels all that exciting anymore. I got all the craftable weapons I wanted from Last Wish, and I had most everything I wanted that came out before that point, and ya know what? That's all I need. It does not matter if so-and-so rocket launcher is slightly better for DPS, or this new fusion is great for boss damage with such and such loadout, because it's all just degrees. If I want to do an activity, I have MORE than enough exotic armor and excellent rolls on legendary weapons. I can do WHATEVER I WANT, and anything they release now is just a slight spin or step up from what I could already do. And for what? It's just not enough anymore.
Take a break, don't take a break, the issue is the same. For someone like me who has been playing for years, the game is just out of tricks. The weapons we get now aren't enticing enough to pull me away from the arsenal I've already accumulated, certainly not enough that I'd want to spend time grinding away to get any of it. Destiny really needs a new THING, something genuinely new and interesting, some kind of mode to catch the interest of someone like me who has already experienced what Destiny does ad nauseam. If they can't do that, crazy as it still sounds for me to say, I'm probably just gonna do Final Shape's campaign, PROBABLY the raid, and then dip. They can't just stick to the same old thing anymore, and no length of time off is going to change that.
YES. The game is essentially solved. Everyone has god rolls. Everyone has god armor. And loot isnt getting better its essentially staying the same or getting worse lol.
Only argument for fun for me is coming up with builds that are memes or try to push the envelope of a certain aspect but even then, what am I using it for? Just more of the same crap lol its not engaging enough
At some point, you run into the limits of the game engine itself. Mechanics are things the game engine process. Making new mechanics is rough, and doesn't always pay off. I think at this point, bungie wants to finish with what was given, and maybe experiment after final shape.
Love seeing Paul gaslight himself into believing light falls mission structure was good
Jake's a talented businessman - his perspective of Destiny is strictly a revenue stream and his viewpoints are structured accordingly.
He's passionate about the game but he's not a shill. He's ripped on Bungie numerous of times
Haven’t played in 2 years but I still watch these with hope that bungie will turn things in the right direction someday.
Same
@@Mottboxstop trying to gaslight people
Magic conch will destiny ever be good again? Never
@@Mottbox you’re a paid shill who isn’t paid.
I’m in the same boat still watch Paul and Aztecross lol just good content
How much more breaks should I take? I have played just 2 seasons in LF. I comeback this season and I am bored after 1 week of play. I don't know if I can get excited to play Final Shape after Lightfall
I was all-in on Destiny 2 for years. Since before Forsaken. Dropped off in Lightfall and just don't care anymore. Really really sad. They don't respect your time and money; way too much fomo and the $80 old seasonal ornaments was the final straw for me.
The platforms need to address the cheating holistically. Its a waste to every game developer trying to uniquely solve the cheating problem in their game
Good point.
Personally, I cannot stand jake. His ego, Holier than thou attitude has always struck me wrong. His takes have always been pretty far fetched and I just don't care for him blaming everyone cheating and playing better than him.. There was a huge release schedule of absolutely amazing games last year and that really made people start to see the value that Bungie is presenting us, I think that was the nail in the coffin..
i've played since alpha D1, i uninstalled 2 months ago, logged in 2 nights ago after an hour i was bored and uninstalled again. It's heartbreaking theyve ruined this game.
I was a pvp player and don't see myself ever coming back, even if I love it. I think I've "been gone too long". There's more systems, more exotics...it's too much. I'll probably watch a video that explains the ending and that's it.
There's been a lot of focus on how unfriendly Destiny is to new players, but a lot of those critiques also apply to lapsed players. The seasonal model is so focused on driving constant engagement that if you do manage to disengage, it's really difficult to come back. Am I really going to watch 30-45 minutes of UA-cam videos to get caught up on the story? Am I going to do a deep dive on trying to figure out what the current meta is? This doesn't even get into trying to grind of exotics or other legendaries that might be key to new builds
Same here, I'll just watch on UA-cam if I ever get bored
I played from D1 to after LightFall...
I have not played since and I really don't miss it.
I think half of it is the mishandling and games Bungie played.
The other half is the game has gone on for so long with really mediocre story telling.
I'll watch the cutscene on how it ends but I think it's time for it to wrap up lol.
the sad part is that you know its gonna be a cutscene instead of us killing the witness in a live event lmao.
@prstechnic1774 For real. I just have this feeling that the end is going to be groan inducing based on the talent they have writing this trash.
10 years yet no fully new factions or classes, still got 30fps cutscenes thats wild to me
Yeah, the last expansion the felt like it majorly changed the game was Forsaken. Other expansions have had bits here and there like weapons crafting but there should've been way more to ship with expansions.
This game lost me years ago when they said I didn't complete the expansions fast enough then took them out of the game. Why do you expect a developer who removes paid for content to give you new satisfying experiences?
Yeah, I'm dropping off at Final Shape. Been playing since the Dark Below, and seeing all of these seasons and such in Destiny 2, whatever these broken up stories are after the expansion I don't think they will be good at all.
They will quite simply just be long seasons like we're in now, but perhaps with one or two more exotics dabbed in. I don't think the story will be that interesting, as if I'm looking at it correctly, it wont be anything to do with characters we know like the Vanguard etc? Why should I care? Who should I care about?
I understand a lot of that is a "play to find out" situation, but I feel most people will have the same mindset as me after the expansion. Its the END of the current saga, the one we've been with since Destiny 1. This is finally a time for someone like me to let go of the story happy.
The story has never been interesting, and my friends always get mad when I say that lol it's been a jumbled mess that never had any real direction since the very beginning
@@Stefantius I can agree, but I'm definitely fond of the characters. Even if its been a "I don't have time to explain what I don't have time to explain" situation since day one, I've always just been soft for the story, I just love the world. But I'm definitely ready to get off the Destiny train.
@@Stefantiusin campaigns maybe. Some are better than others but yeah i can see why you might say that, but i think the lore of Destiny’s universe is one of the most creative and mysterious and enticing pieces of fiction ever made. Hands down.
Where are you getting the idea that the episode stories won't include the vanguard or current characters
@@Grayves_X Well they claimed it would be the end of the Light and Dark saga. If there is no light and dark, what's the character narrative going to be?
Paul, don’t do watch-along react videos. They’re low effort and skate off of other people’s production work.
This format, the video essay with relevant quotations, already exists and makes more sense for your channel.
My two fireteam partners took the last two and a half seasons off. Coaching them through it all is a bit of a chore so the disorientstion of returning is a thing.
I took 2 and a half seasons off too, I played 40 hours a week plus for awhile to catch up, that's a problem. I am caught up now, and doing the same as you coaching 4 people through coming back into the game. The whole 'catch up' is wild, Bungie need to fix it amongst other things. :)
It's like if I take 2 weeks off my casual PvP games lmao, I come back and I can't play for shit anymore.
As much as Destiny has had a huge impact on my life, and given me lifelong friends, I can’t deny that it is a franchise built off the ever tantalizing promise of “things will get even better!” We’ve been playing catchup on basic features since the first game launched in _2014,_ and are only just now getting to a spot where we can say Destiny 2 feels like a fleshed out MMO, and even that’s dubious at best considering half the game has been carved out to ease the technical load. What we’re seeing is the effects of a game initially only made to hold 1-2 years worth of content being transmogrified into something trying to hold 4-5 year’s worth at a time. It’s not sustainable for players or Bungie. As much as I hate to say it, they just need to stop. Put the game in maintenance mode, add most of the Vanilla and Forsaken content back in over a year or two, and then just stop. Create a Destiny 3 with all the features added over the years, with a robust MMO structure meant to handle content over a long period of time. Will this happen, or could it even happen? I don’t know. It just hurts to see a universe I love die from a thousand cuts. I hope I’m wrong.
The Strand introduction was not creative. It was completley deadbeat and uninspired - we literally found it in the middle of the street randomly and proceeded to have a videogamey "test your green magic on a bunch of useless enemies" followed by a plot cutscene that completely undermines that and blatantely ignores the player. I dunno what you're cooking there...
You give me 15 minutes and i can come up with a better way to do it on the spot, as many others could.
Hope Sony shut them down completely. Destiny 2 is not a video game anymore. Its just an MTX store with an illusion of a video game. They deserve to be in the same shithole where Ubisoft is at.
The taking breaks thing is something that the entire industry needs to really reckon with. I think there are so many live-service games now, and they've amassed such a horrid reputation, that the model needs a serious reevaluation. Destiny, to me, was always at it's best when it was lite enough on content that I could play it alongside other games - not when it demanded all my gaming hours.
People need to distinguish the causation when it comes to the relation between lackluster content, the exploitative in game store and burnout. Burnout is the RESULT of the lack of content as well as unfulfilled promises from Bungie. Its not like people are getting burnout because the game is exactly what people want it to be according to Bungie and that they are just tired.
Jake has the same takes as a 13 year old “hardcore” gamer, thats why people like him and he is popular, good for him. But it’s all garbage
I stopped playing for a few reasons, I'm not going back either. I'm not even interested in playing final shape.
Burn out isn’t the issue. It’s lack of innovation and horrible business practices that’s killing their game.
I think seasons really hurt d2
It makes devs design content that will be leaving so why build on anything.
I wish we got really good engaging content tha gets updated and changed then the same seasonal activity.
Seasonal activies really just arent it. More or less they are the same activity over and over. I want a new core mode like a horde mode or survial mode where you hold out for aslong as possible.
Got to disagree with you on the cheating issues Paul. Mod pack usage on console is way up and it’s hard not to run into a lobby that doesn’t have at least 1-2 players using them. The PC side has habitual cheaters that never seem to get banned or they get a slap on the wrist for the fifth time and allowed to continue playing the game after their time out. We just saw a 4 time worlds first player get banned for life and they’re not the first to be banned in that extreme way but PvP cheaters to my knowledge don’t get that treatment and instead are allowed to run rampant until finally something is done. I don’t think Jake overstated anything when it comes to the cheating issue and there are plenty of other streamers who agree with his assessment so I don’t know where you come off understating it. You might have hundreds of hours in PvP but Jake literally has thousands as well as Aztecross, True Vanguard and others who I think are qualified to make statements on cheating, a subject that Bungie doesn’t address enough .
^^^ this 100% - a little disappointed in Paul's take on this... Either intentionally or unintentionally, feel like he misconstrued a lot of the core points Jake was trying to make. Specifically to the cheating points - Jake was saying that he goes out of his way to hand deliver gamer tags, stats, and video evidence about cheaters, to bungie contacts, and they do nothing about it. I believe him. Because Jakes streams trials so regularly, is pretty dang easy to look up gamer tags, stats, and use his stream as evidence. Regardless of how often Paul actually engages with PVP, cheating IS rampant - on both consoles and pc - if you don't believe it - you're not looking closely enough.
Cheaters are perma banned I pvp theu just make new accounts so no it isn't a slap on the wrist.
At best they could do hardware / ip bans but there are workarounds.
@@SlongestKongest you not wrong - but - specifically in trials - the ban results in them having to RE-BUY the yearly expansion to gain entry... I don't care what kind of cheater you are, you're gonna stop BUYING new accounts after the 10th time. There IS a limit to how many new accounts cheaters will be willing to make before they throw in the towel.
I play Trials every weekend and have since it launched. I have maybe seen an obvious cheater a handful of times. It's extremely rare for me. I think it's more of an issue for PC.
Took a break and still bored of the game 😂😂😂
By poring everything in Final shape, you mean the evererse store
The story being on super tight rails with our “mentor” basically holding queue cards telling us when to feel urgent then switching to be calm then be urgent again…
Exactly, I barely feel like an actual person at all in the story. Also, it doesn't make it any better that ghost does all the talking, and all we ever do is shake our heads every once in a while. Because of this I feel sooooo disconnected, and with every passing season recently, it's only gotten worse.
Jake is the saltiest destiny streamer out there. He couldn't not talk out of his ass even if he tried
Pvp hater who joined at the “wrong place, wrong time” I bet.
I’ve watched Jake in his streams and he’s actually a very positive person and player who does sometimes have a bad session but salty isn’t the word I would use to describe him. Frustrated, maybe even disappointed are probably better options but not salty.
Saying this about one of the most chill and constructive crucible streamers is WILD
Jake is so annoying. Nobody needs to take a break from the game more than him. The game makes him actively angry and miserable. Dude play something else.
Bungie deleted content from the game that people paid for. They lied about the reasons why and lied about it coming back in an improved way. They re-released old content and called it new content and charged for it. The game became a completely chopped up unintelligible mess. 24 of the 25 original Destiny players on my friends list have quit for good between Forsaken & Lightfall. They're angry with Bungie and have zero trust left. Many of us can't wait for the complete collapse of Bungie and Sony taking over. Maybe in 5-10 years a Sony studio will do Destiny 3.
They didn't lie about why it was being taken out or about using the DCV in the future... This is just wrong.
psychotic take, wishing for people to lose their jobs because curse of osiris got vaulted. it's a game, just quit like i did and stop whining about it.
Gloss right over Bungie deleting paid content. They've got a long track record of proven lies but go ahead and believe what you want.
Sony taking over Bungie doesn't automatically mean that rank & file employees will lose their jobs. They could easily be better off with the change. As for the scumbag predator bosses that came up with semi-legal ways to create addicts and steal from customers - they ought to be behind bars. I'd settle for them never having anything to do with any more video games.
@@Storse Bungie being taken over by Sony doesn't mean rank & file employees would lose their jobs. In fact, they might end up better off. It's Bungie upper management that the Sony big boss called out recently.
I don’t agree that we will see more expansions with Destiny 2. The game is falling apart, from a technical standpoint, and it’s super old for a console title. Making content designed for last gen consoles is unlikely, considering the game’s age and all the technical issues we have experienced in recent years.
I agree. They should have stopped after witch queen and maybe focused on destiny 3. Doesn't have to be completely full with content at launch but utilizing the new Gen hardware could change the system that the game runs on
They officially announced that more expansions were coming, and we did get a current gen update (although some textures are still right from the D1 days). I still don't think that the game is up to par anyway, nor will it survive past the next year of content.
@@nahqiv they have not announced more expansions at all.
Haven't played in months because the game felt stale, tasteless
Playing other games, taking a break won't be enough to reignite the love for it because i'll find exactely what i left.
As datto said "i dont want more destiny, i want a better destiny"
The game is just too unambitious. It has a skyhigh ceiling yet they are too afraid to improve
I think I Hate Everything was right when he said "The problem with the seasonal model is that it seems it has halted overall production [...] if each season added a strike or two, some pvp and gambit maps, then it would be reasonable to assume that the overall content package would only grow and enrich the scope with time."
All these seasons and what do we have to show for it? A handful of missions, reskinned guns and repetitive seasonal activities
That's a big part of what sucks with seasons. Once they're gone, you're basically left with only transmog fodder and a handful of good weapons that will be outclassed pretty soon. Not exactly exciting at this point.
Jake is a PVP main. His thoughts were purely from PVP main player's perspective. I'm a PVE player since Day 1 D1 and I can say that I finally walked away from Destiny... No burnout here ... just tired if playing the same content, the same reskins, and being over-promised and under-delivered in every single season. This game is dead - story-wise, creativity-wise. DEAD. Even the recent hoverboards ... they blatantly copied Warframes K-drives even the moves etc. Bungie gave up on the game, and I don't want to support the studio that treats the player base like they have treated us for the past 3 years. Activision wasn't the problem, SONY was not the problem. Bungie is. I'm not interested in the Final Shape - it's gonna be garbage. Just say R.I.P. and move one.
A Destiny 3 would be awesome.
My frustrations started years ago. After all the damage subclass 3.0 did to the warlock identity. Healing, devor, storm nades, etc etc handed out to everyone and gaining nothing much in return. My hopes rested on light fall. A brand new warlock class and possibly a DPS super to rival hunters and titans. Something unique and we got a reskin of nova bomb for a super that was yet again behind hunter and titans for DPS. Final shape we are getting a solar buddy as a super. I couldn't be less excited. During Beyond light they talked about doing a lot of work to staking buddies, child of old god, arc buddy, no time to explain portal but it never live up to the hype. Now we have threadings and are getting a solar buddy class for the final shape. It's clear that they set this design path out years ago and it's just lazy. My main complaint is that they haven't done anything innovative with warlock in years and I doubt final shape will change anything. The fact whisper or zero hour, mars, io, titan, raids etc etc still haven't returned from the vault also really bothers me. I'm really on the fence still for buying final shape.
The GDC presentation was the nail in the coffin for me. Bad game is bad; trash management is trash. Unless D2 is your livelihood, anyone putting money into that game, besides to satisfy the 10+ yr story sunk-cost fallacy, has no self-respect, I'm sorry.
A game like FFXIV promotes taking breaks, even the producer, Yoshi-P, says that its fine to take a break. The content will be there when you return.
Destiny 2 meanwhile doesn't encourage taking breaks because if you do, you'll lose out on battle passes you paid for and seasonal stories/events. The problem is that Bungie refuses to deliver us meaningful content. Dawntrail teased the new 8-player raids, which takes place in Designation Nine, a cyberpunk city that's also a player hubzone. Thats fucking awesome to me.
Final Shape just doesn't have me feeling hyped anymore. Maybe its because I'm getting old but the excitement I used to feel for a D2 expansion died with the release of Lightfall
Yeah, Jake's take on breaks was REALLY bad. Breaks only work when players can leave and come back easily and not miss anything. At current, they can't. Either they paid for an entire year of content, and NEED (or FEEL the need) to play that entire year to experience everything before the content leaves...or they're afraid of being away for a year or more and then coming back and missing out on either story beats or fun activities or whatever else.
Until Bungie addresses that problem, "taking breaks" is only a bandaid to stem the bleeding of both player count and player investment. It's a non-solution. It helps nothing, it fixes nothing. When the game is mostly the same as when you left it, only MORE empty? Why bother sticking with it?
AAA companies need to realize...giving players reason/method of returning easily FAAAAAAR outweighs keeping them "engaged" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year. Let them leave when they feel like, and keep the door as WIDE open as possible, so when they WANT to come back, they can slide back in like your favorite pair of shoes.
Destiny doesn't do that. Breaks are impossible and/or solve nothing.
I took a break from the game and it keeps getting worse
Honestly, I don't think your first statement is a universal truth either. Like many aspects of life, everything relies on individual experiences. For instance, while some players may return from a break feeling utterly disoriented, other people can find it akin to riding a bike-rusty at first, but quickly regain their muscle memory. The challenge with discussing such topics lies in recognizing the subjectivity of opinions. Personally, I enjoyed Lightfall's story and found it comprehensible, contrasting with others who struggled to grasp it. Additionally, like Jake's viewpoint, you're making far too many assumptions about community sentiment. Much of the discourse stems from only a fraction of the player base, as not everyone who plays Destiny engages in online social discussions to the same extent. Thus, making predictions about game retention solely based on the vocal minority "the perceptible majority" is impractical. The fact of the mater is that the game still has a dedicated player base who are largely happy with it, and that shouldn't be discounted.
Go I love paul and watch all his videos put some of his points here just sound so dumb, like you mean bungie can’t go into the backend, filter players by KDA and have a single employee just all day ban the ones that are blatant cheating. And that’s just a single problem. UA-cam PVP content creators and streamers bring the game to more of the community and push and grow the community. Now they are all taking breaks and or just not playing PVP anymore
The lack of weapon creativity killed the game. Adding stuff like rocket sidearm is great. But the last thing new we got like that was the glaive. Reskins and lack of weapon design is a big part.
No one uses creative weapons, glaives are really really good yet no one uses them. Salvation's grip is super fun now and no one uses it. Manticore is also super unique and no one uses it. Ex diris is fun. There are a lot of creativity in the game, it is just that apparently everyone plays gms only so nothing is viable
@@carlosflores4179brother in christ, around 10% of steam players have EVER completed a GM. “Everyone doing GMs” is soooo wrong. But i see what you mean, ppl use the best meta, they ignore some more unique, slightly worse stuff.
Also, don’t kid yourself. Glaives are not “really really good.” They’re okay at best
@@MockinFrog that's my point dude. No one plays gms!!! But they use load outs as if they were. Next time I'll put a disclaimer so you can understand sarcasm. Having 95% damage resist makes them really really good. But you already knew that
@carlosflores4179 I've used alot of cool stuff regardless of meta. So I'm speaking I guess more towards legendary and secondary weapon. Maybe a gun that deploys a void devuff if the clip hits but its not powerful. Swapping weapons and making combos is what's lacking.
@@Boomer72O sort of like disruption break? Like that kind of interaction??
Destiny has a ton of issues obviously.
The real problem is that the game is developed around time-gating and mtx. It infects every part of the game and it is slowly killing D2.
They created a pipeline mechanism to churn out as much low effort content as possible all while increasing prices and monetizing everything. No wonder people are burnt out.
Jake is more worried about stream revenue than really fixing anything. He just got a bunch of great changes to pvp so hopefully he's happy.
Forsaken was the peak for me by a mile. Witch Queen was not great to me. I don't get the affection. I also play pvp and Witch Queen added nothing positve, continued the ability spam started with stasis' introduction. I think if you looked at trailers for witch queen there's nothing for pvp players so It's just not good where as Forsaken was good overall, but also added an updated comp, pinnacle weapons, luna's and not forgotten quests which drastically engaged people in pvp. Added maps. I mean it's not a contest. I guess if you focus on a story maybe Witch queen resonated, i mostly skipped cut scenes honestly. I honestly couldnt' tell you how it even ends or a single memorable mission. I'm sure others had a different experence but for me forsaken was the better one and the high point of destiny only bested by Taken King. And as. final point i think the dreaming city was far more interesting a map to do things in and explore than the throne world.
Thank you for not just sitting there and pausing every 5 seconds to say something while watching someone else's video. i actually had a reason to go watch his video, that he put work into, to watch this one, instead of just watching it all here. He gets my view and not only just the watcher, and subsequently everyone else watching that reaction, that now have no need to go watch it afterwards. This is how react "content" should be done.
Destiny will always have a special place in my heart, but i broke up with destiny after stasis was introduced and never looked back... I've been way happier playing other games. All Jake was doing was telling like it is. Sometimes, you just have to wake up.
Destiny 2 is about to have a similiar moment that FFXIV had recently. Endwalker felt like the end for me. I checked the first 2 patches after that but i felt like i mentally checked out and haven't played in almost a year. Their next expansion doesnt shake up gameplay enough for me to want to invest in another 10 year old storyline which are admitedily good.
And Destiny 2 is similiar imo, about to have its 10 year storyline end with promise of new storylines but the expansion itself doesn't have enough to keep me after i see the Light and Dark saga through. No new enemy faction, no new subclass, no new weapon type or major game system like crafting was , im just in it for the story at this point.
But people told me FFXIV is the best mmo of all time. Glad to see sticking to Swtor has done me well.
Bungie has mismanaged the F out of destiny. They need upper management changes.
Sure most streamers have alot of confirmation bias but if you aren't a PVP main i dont trust your dismissal of cheaters. It just sounds like someone at Bungie PR got ahold of you.
I've taken multiple breaks from D2. Each time I came back I was MORE disappointed that nothing had really changed.
Before anti cheat Cheating was WILD. If you played 5 matches you definitely played a cheater, not including Xim. Since Bungie rolled out anti cheat it has gotten much better but anti cheat has to have constant attention because it’s an arms race with cheat devs.
Jake thinks absence makes the heart grow fonder when it comes to Destiny. So, I recommend leaving it permanently - and then you will really love it. Interesting how people are not burned out playing Counter Strike.
I stopped playing a year ago
Essentially your killing the same enemies with the same weapons for 6 years now in a new fancy map with each major expansion.
They really shit the bed with the last expansion because I could care less where the story goes after that.
I think they went 1 maybe 2 years too long and we need a complete refresh with Destiny 3
PVP has always been the secret sauce for value-added content that extended the game when the story lagged. I agree with Jake. Anything that weakens PVP like cheaters and stale maps and poor matchmaking weaken the entire game.
D2 is just not fun to play everything is easy and boring compared to d1 where I could do the same strike over and over
There’s nothing to do. The world is meaningless and empty. Bungie could delete every location and it would barely make a difference.
I had a friend that played destiny for at least 3k hours in D1 and 2, took time away after forsaken, tried to come back with Shadowkeep and just couldn’t find a way to understand everything that was happening
People always say that if WoW can stay fresh for decades, why can’t Destiny? Well, every time a new WoW expansion drops old gear becomes irrelevant and players basically start over. This is the case for pretty much every MMO that has stood the test of time.
Destiny tried doing that with sunsetting and power caps, but the player base imploded. So now, Bungie is in this situation where almost all gear ever released must be usable and balanced, and any new gear has to be slightly better or else players will complain that there’s nothing to grind for…
New weapons come out? I already have crafted versions from two years ago that are better. New armor comes out? I already have high-stat artifice armor from 3 years ago that’s better. Textbook perpetual power creep. Really the only thing they can do is churn out completely new weapon types, which takes an insane amount of resources and is still only a temporary solution, because players will get their perfect role and then start complaining again.
Without hard resets, any game starts to feel stale, yet the community doesn’t want hard resets. See the problem?
For one Destiny isnt an MMO.
The reason the gear grind is relevant in WoW, is because there is soo much new content in the expansions to obtain it in.
An MMO expansion has 100x more progression content than Bungie can put out.
In Destiny you get 1 new little zone to do stuff in and its back to the old and tired content to grind out the rest. Thats a big reason why sunsetting was not well recieved.
Real MMOs dont do this.
Hard reset with the same bullshit content year after year won’t keep players either. Sunsetting didn’t work because people looked at this game from a progression collection stand point. If I recall I remember people on the Destiny 1 team even using that classification. The content in a game like WoW back in the day was bigger than the entire Destiny universe in 1 expansion.
@@Mybutteredpopcorn Hell, add to the fact MMOs dont remove entire sections of games and expansions. Hell Swtor still has the base game, its expansions, and everything that came out, yet hasn't really removed anything.
I refuse to play after lightfall.
The issue is they took away the grind. The power level grind is nowhere, the gear and builds don't change. I played thousands of hours but took a break 3 seasons ago and came back to nothing really. No actual need to grind anything other than just the storyline. My armor and weapons still meta and OP.. I haven't had a need to change anything in a few seasons. Yeah I don't have the newest weapons craftable but do I really need them? Not really. There's just no grind anymore. Weapon crafting and no leveling is what really hurt us I think. I spend an hour grinding dungeons on Diablo 4 looking for gear and feel like I've actually done something. You load D2 and spend an hour to run like 2 strikes and don't actually feel like you've done anything. It's all more like chores at this point.
I had a few problems with Jake's video while not entirely disagreeing. Some of it was a matter of perspective and some of it was my intense suspicion of anyone claiming to have a "truth" to share.
I think that, rhetorically speaking, it was a mistake to begin by claiming that burnout is the problem (and he treats it like a problem with no real origin aside from over-playing). Ignoring context like this places blame on the player, not the source of the burnout (disappointment in Lightfall and other alienation of fans). Since the thing killing the game isn't disaffected fans-it's bad management-his argument about the "truth" was off to a bad start. He went on to explain a lot of Bungie's bad business decisions but by the time he got around to bringing it up it just felt like an afterthought, not a cause. The whole video was a great example of why you should default to your basic writing course (drop your thesis, support it in the body).
The problem with cheaters is another source of burnout. Everything that compromises fun is likely to promote burnout. Why do we have cheater? Is it a result of burnout? No, it's a result of bad management. If we want to focus on cheaters in trials, we have to admit that they are paying customers (you need the most recent expansion) and every MMO wrestles with how many cheaters they can ban because they are active/paying players and those inflated numbers are used in advertising to show that the game is healthy. But like this video says, cheaters aren't necessarily killing the game, just PvP.
As for the prediction that Final Shape is the final major DLC, it's hard to say. We have no information so it's all just speculation in the absence of evidence. Again, not a truth, just his assessment.
After playing warframe, Im convinced bungie deserves all the shit they are getting from players
Yasss. Cook him Paul. Jk but for real, I don’t think taking a break from the game and coming back to the sameee shit is gonna make it feel fresh lol this seasonal weekly timegated model has been crap since the beginning and will continue to be crap. I might give the episodes a chance if they aren’t timegated, assuming TFS doesn’t completely blow of course.
I disagree with the expansions. I can absolutely see Final Shape being the final expansion and next year them selling a season 2 bundle for 100.00 that comes with a bunch of junk and silver. Bungie's burn rate is too high has having essentially 5 developed cycles a year is unsustainable and reducing that to 4 isn't much of a change.
Ofc all of this relies on the success of episodes and TFS.
Haven't taken Jake seriously since he gave lightfall and 8 out of 10 and then in the same breath said that they didn't give him any PVP content
1:05 Definitely not burnout in my case. Used to love this game, and was really looking forward to Lightfall. I wanted to love it, and tried playing, but dude, I haven't played this game (outside of the bi-monthly gambit matches for the hell of it) since May of last year. At most I check out the intro mission each time a new season drops, but that's every three months, and even then, it just gets boring. It just feels like I'm always ultimately going to the same places and doing the same general things as I did 4 years ago, just narratively it's supposed to be seen as way more significant. Riven looked cool in that first mission though.
I’m a returning player from D1 but I’ve played D2 when it came out on ps4 and later transfer my character to pc but where’s Red war?
Vaulted. In other words, it was removed from the game.
The game is a big recycle fest, hologram talking simulator that costs 100$ a year
I started playing D2 in Forsaken. I have over 8000hrs in the game so it’s safe to say I love the game. I took a break and didn’t play Witch Queen. Came back for lightfall. Haven’t played since the season of the deep as there’s nothing that inspires me to take on the ridiculous grind. Can’t do it anymore.
I really want The Final Shape to be great to drag me back but I don’t have high hopes.
All my mates quit years ago and there is no chance of them coming back
As a gambit main I gave up on Bungie giving a crap about Gambit since Beyond Light.
Taking every issue with the game into consideration, cheaters is honestly bottom of the totem pole.
The game just feels lazy. I've been playing since the beginning of Destiny and its changed so so much over time. In terms of gameplay the game is far better. In terms of story it feels lazy and like it turned into fanfic of itself. Which, considering the franchise is a decade old, its likely that there are devs at Bungie who DID make fanfic! At this point it feels like the game concept-creeped so hard that its kind of impossible to not just nuke the story in The Final Shape.
If they end the Light and Dark saga, its over, its no longer Destiny. Destiny is, in terms of its bones, a science-fantasy universe filled with magic. The more they try and explain how everything works the less and less people care about the story as it loses its wonder and mystery.
A break might kill Destiny. A lot of players just don't understand there are better things out there to play right now.
Agreed. Destiny stay alive based primarily on momentum. The story and gunplay carried a lot of it and once it hit the wall with lightfall and the weaker seasons, people realized just how hollow the game became. It slowed so much that players could look around and realize that it wasn’t fun anymore. Weak story, a grind that poorly rewarded your time, and mundane activities. Gunplay can’t carry a game that’s not fun to play.
Yes finally somebody who isnt a suck ass whose take makes sense. Thank you sir.
I continue to play GMs still, and I think the game plays really well.
However, since I have been playing Destiny 2 since day 1, I’m starting to see a problem which is related to the enemies with deal with.
First year was very cabal focused. Second year introduced a new race, but was taken focused, and that race had an impact on the campaign, but less so on the end game.
Year 3 and Shadowkeep gives us a bit of Hive and a bit of Vex.
Year 4 puts the spotlight on Fallen (with a bit of vex).
Year 5, with Witch Queen, shifts the focus for the Hive again, but adds a really great story (for Destiny), and lets the race introduced in year 2 finally shine.
Lightfall starts running out of options here when it comes to enemy rotation, and goes back to the Cabal.
Where do we go from there?
I feel like we are at a point where no matter what new activity you end up creating, everything still feels VERY similar to anything I have played before.
The 3.0 system gave us some temporary boost. Sure, no many new enemies, but now what we do ourselves is actually different.
But now that 3.0 is out of the way, and now that we have dealt with almost every permutation of races, what do we really put on the table so that new content feels enticing to play?
Just adding two witness units might not do it for me. To be clear, we don’t even need a new race imo. But you need something that changes the way encounters take place.
Consider taken psions. They spice things up because they can clone themselves.
In recent years, we got a few very tanky enemies that force you to change engagements. Wyverns, tormentors, light hive.
But they are just small drops in a big game. When you add one or two new strikes with a new year expansion, remember that 90% of the strikes are still the exact same.
My dream would be that there was a system where somehow new releases had features that could propagate to every single activity to make them feel fresh again.
I dont think it helps too that the new tanky enemies just feel like basic variations of each other in terms of behaviour too.
They're all quite aggressive with high damaging attacks, but what this means from the player perspective is all you really do for any of them is pop out, empty rounds into them, and then move away to gain space as it rushes you.
It feels very samey. The Tormentors for example don't feel that different to Hive Lightbearers, the main difference is just the insta-kill grab, but even that's not really an interesting mechanic since it just encourages the same tactics anyway.
@@JizzSock_ ChatGPT
@@jimbob1862 I would agree with you. Still better than nothing, but yeah, they have focused on tanky enemies recently.
I oftentimes think of the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer as a reference point for engaging units. Tormentors remind me a bit of Banshees in that game, though banshees are a bit slower. They are tanky, you have to keep away from them, and they can insta-kill you if they get close.
But you also had phantoms. Also can instakill you when close, but their strategy is stealth, and they are actually quite squishy in comparison.
But Bungie adds so few units every year that 90% of the engagements feel the exact same they felt years ago.
It also doesn't help that the very few new mobs we've had to face are all restrained to a couple missions each. That's about it. Besides the campaign missions, they really aren't anywhere in the game.
I don’t buy the idea that cheaters are even a minor contributor to the overall problem with Destiny
Well, saying TFS is the last expansion they're gonna make did not make me want to preorder TFS. After Lightfall, it just felt like they were over Destiny and trying to milk as much cash as they could out of the players before Marathon. I'm already tired of Destiny, and making it look like they were winding down on it just made me make my decision to jump off earlier. If they are going to make more expansions, I think keeping that secret is very misguided for the situation they've put themselves in.