ATF: The Next Infringement
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- The ATF has found a new target and it concerns revolvers....
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It's ridiculous they even regulate suppressors
Sick of the ATF making up what ever rules they want even after they get the unconstitutional PPs slapped time and time again
FTATF!
Looks like a dust cover to me..
Some had said billet valve covers.😁
But...but...but...think of the children! How could you even CONSIDER abolishing the NFA?! Ridiculous.
I do think of the children. The children that will grow up with no NFA!
Yes the children need to learn how to handle cool guns safely so they can enjoy them like we do.
Sarcasm?
You do manage to “sound” too much like an anti-civil rights activist.
We already took Jim Crow racial purity laws and segregation from the blue dog democrats how can we take the last standing reminder of their nazi ties by removing the NFA
@@PatRMG and less hearing damage!
Well you now meet the requirement for having irrevocable harm. The reason the Texas suppressor lawsuit was thrown out, no one could show denial of approval or having already produced an illegal object.
Pat. Very good, interesting and informative video. The AFT needs to be defunded. Thanks for sharing and take care.
I wonder where they measured the volume reduction from. If it was at the shooters ear, then something like a linear compensator would be called a silencer as well. If they measured at the muzzle, I sincerely doubt it actually diminished the report.
First thing I'd do in regards to a 2a lawyer would be to contact the Firearms Policy Coalition. Even if they're not specifically interested in the case they are most likely able to put you into contact with someone who is. FPC keeps the lawsuit printer going BRRRRR.
The device would definitely be beneficial on alot of revolver models
if that's a silencer, then any bolt action gun is a silencer
longer barrels also act as silencers/suppressors.
the ruling is stupid, but your argument is off base. those things are a part of the firearm, versus added to it. it's a part of how the argument is worded. also a barrel does not really lessen the sound so much as put it further away, which they measure at the muzzle, making that moot. they made the point of sealed actions when mentioning the nagant revolver, Pat read that out loud in the video. again, the ruling is stupid, just clarifying the logic they use.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 a handguard is added to a firearm, as is an optic, etc. doesn't matter.
if all other guns are allowed to control their chamber gasses, then so can a revolver, and it can be a safety issue as well.
"also a barrel does not really lessen the sound so much as put it further away, which they measure at the muzzle, making that moot. "
I suggest you go talk to some physicists and engineers, as you're WRONG. if you make a barrel long enough for a given caliber, it is just as good as having added a silencer.
What do you think makes that loud noise out the end of a barrel exactly? magic faries?
Shoot a 9in AR15, then shoot a 20in AR15. Mount it to a bench when you do so you can stand perpendicular to the end of the barrel when it goes off and report back to me what you hear.
Adding barrel length does teh EXACT SAME THING as a silencer. Do you have any clue how a silencer "silences" a gunshot? Mind explaining it to me?
I have added longer barrels to rifles 🤷♂️
@@SoloRenegade handguards and optics aren't specifically designed nor have any real impact on the report, that is a red hearing argument. a revolver can be designed to do so, but as the law says it can't be redesigned, yadda yadda yadda. if the barrel is long enough? "enough" is an infinitive, so that just falls under being a ridiculous argument. as to speaking with engineers, I do on a daily basis. maybe don't assume you know more than a random person you've never met. ah, insulting my character by supposition that I think guns work by magic, that is an ad hominem attack, when a person attacks another's character as a way to lessen their credibility, very childish and manipulative, and definitely not a good look for you. suppressors can and often do lessen report in multiple ways, between expansion chambers which allow the escaping gasses to rapidly cool which of course robs the gas of speed and heat at an exponential rate. there is also depending on the system actually sealing the gasses, there is also flow though styles that rely less on an expansion chamber and more on myriad pathing for the gases to achieve the same effect. there are other systems as well(oiled), but I think the point I understand the fundamentals of suppression is clear, it is primarily a matter of thermodynamics.
it sounds like you need to actually read these laws and rulings since your arguments are all addressed. have you read the entire GCA and NFA?
stop trying to force me to defend the NFA and GCA. I want them repealed too, I'm just explaining how the stupid acts work. I get that you want to feel like a big bad patriot attacking what you think is a gun grabber, but all this really is, is you getting over emotional and venting at people who pay attention and actually are looking for solutions to the acts. I get you like attacking people on the internet to stroke your ego, but you are barking up the wrong tree. I try to understand the dirty game they play so I can better understand how to take it apart, instead of going on tirades at random people on the internet who try to pass on information. grow up and go touch some grass.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 " a revolver can be designed to do so, but as the law says it can't be redesigned, yadda yadda yadda. "
that is a BS lie. ever heard of gunsmithing? modification of weapons and their design is 10000% legal and 2A protected.
It wasn't a red herring as it specifically pointed out that firearms attachments are legal additions.
"as to speaking with engineers, I do on a daily basis. maybe don't assume you know more than a random person you've never met. "
and I am an engineer, and a combat vet. maybe don't assume you know more than a random person on teh internet.
You are demonstrating lack of understanding, and thus it's fair for me to assume, based on actual evidence You provided, taht you lack understanding and knowledge.
" suppressors can and often so lessen report in multiple ways, between expansion chambers which allow the escaping gasses to rapidly cool which of course robs the gas of speed and heat at an exponential rate. "
and you know what else does this, legally? flash suppressors, muzzle breaks, and other barrel accessories that aren't silencers, but can affect and even lessen the report. try again
"suppressors can and often so lessen report in multiple ways, between expansion chambers which allow the escaping gasses to rapidly cool which of course robs the gas of speed and heat at an exponential rate. "
oh, you mean like how a longer barrel provides more internal volume for gasses to expand into, more material to dissipate their heat into, more time for the gasses to fully combust....? yeah, proving my point that longer barrels reduce teh signature, and a long enough barrel is as good as a silencer (though impractically long and hard to get unless you manufacture barrels). Point is, barrel extensions lessen the report as much or more than this device does, and is perfectly legal.
"it sounds like you need to actually read these laws and rulings since your arguments are all addressed."
what makes you say that? point out anything I said that was legally unsound?
"stop trying to force me to defend the NFA and GCA. "
i'm not forcing you to do anything. You're being an ATF shill all on your own. I'm trying to get you to understand reality.
"I want them repealed too, I'm just explaining ho the stupid acts work."
and I'm telling you they DON'T work and they are wrong, flawed, broken, illegal, invalid, etc.
" I get that you want to feel like a big bad patriot attacking what you think is a gun grabber, but all it really is you getting over emotional and venting at people who pay attention and actually are looking for solutions to the acts. "
wrong, I've done more for this country than you ever will. I don't have to feel like anything. I know who I am, what I've done. I'm also not emotional. I'm highly logical and arguing the FACTS. you are the one getting overly emotional about this stuff.
"I get you like attacking people on the internet to stroke your ego, but you are barking up the wrong tree. "
no, not stroking my ego, sharing FACTS, educating people, helping people fight back against the criminal elements of the US gov. Helping them develop arguments and such to use in court.
if anyone is barking up the wrong tree, it's you. Stop supporting the ATF and start pushing back.
" I try to understand the dirty game they play so I can better understand how to take it apart,"
well, you suck at it. Unlike you, I have a proven record of getting inside the heads of my opponents to defeat them, and not just in my imagination, but for real, while working for the gov. I've also gotten multiple job offers from lawyers as a result of my arguments.
" grow up and go touch some grass."
ooh, scary, now get out of your mom's basment and learn something. Stop focusing on character assassination, ad hominems, and focus on FACTS. you can't win on logic and facts, so you resort to distractions and derailing teh conversation and focusing on attacking me personally, rather than my arguments.
While I see the ATFs argument it’s a major reach. The average person could see this as a safety device because it prevents hot gases burning your hand.
You’ve come a long ways in weaponry since your POS Black Aces Tactical days😂
Thank ya thank ya.
Fun fact. The CCI Quiet 22 will cycle a Remington Speedmaster
Is ATF correct about this device falling under the current law defining suppressors? Yep. Should the law be repealed or at least modified? Absolutely!
yea i was thinking the same thing, unfortunately, but got me thinking, id consider this item something that allows a suppressor to work with your gun, but if this is a "blast chamber" wouldnt all the suppressor mounts like muzzle breaks and pistons and all those items be in the same category as this? but that stuff is okay and this isnt? they all should be non regulated obviously but it just makes no sense
@@coal_tactical I don't think that muzzle brakes could be classed as suppressors in that they are neither designed to decrease noise, nor do they do so in any significant way. In fact, most brakes INCREASE the noise of a gunshot. My ARs are very loud even when firing .22LR with a conversion kit....
Unmodified Nagant revolvers are now silencers lol, but wait...maybe they are 'antique'. I better not cock my Heritage revolver then wrap the cylinder with a sweatshirt and fire it or an ATF agent might jump out of a tree at me.
Thank you 😊
Great and informative video, Thanks!
Shooting inside a room reduces the decibels of a firearm when measured from outside the room. A room is a "Blast Chamber". A room is a firearm.
Exactly, ATF better have a tax stamp on that "lab"😂
Check out the antique Roper revolving shotguns and rifles for a built in cylinder enclosing shroud.
Agreed! Good day
not surprised, there was a muzzle device made during Viet Nam that changed the pitch of 556 rifle to sound more similar to 7.62, in order to keep the enemy from triangulating an American as easily. because it changed the pitch, it was considered a suppressor and all but a couple were destroyed. moral of the story, ATF gonna step.
Is there a Member of Congress who is a constitutionally minded lawyer willing to take this case up, and add a sunset to his/her work.
Can you offer a mount option for front fender, under bumper mount on vehicles for enhancing crowd control situations?
Likely, you already have a backorder list, so please advise on the wait time.
Is there a discount for dual mounts?
Oh man! That would be fun!
@@PatRMG here in Florida, the Legislature gifted us with the new " thou shalt not block roadways and intersections."
I call it the WE WILL TREAD ON YOU law...but your flamethrower obviously would negate the post encounter cleanups...so we are very impressed with that flame thrower.
LOL love the flamethrower “ accessory “
What's next is for the SBR's to be removed from the NFA if not the NFA repealed in itself.
Won't happen as long as Dems are in power
AFT, always after the fun stuff
The ATF stated they will still enforce the Pistol Brace Rule, because their authority supersedes the District Court, so this is going to be real interesting soon. I hope this ends up at the Supreme Court and they finally throw out the NFA!
What? can you post your source about what the ATF said?
They can enforce Deez Nuts !!!!!
Also, we're talking about a federal agency that considers a piecel steel. That's the size of a credit card. A machine gun just because it has some itching in it. Yeah, also certain triggers are machine guns. Even if they're not in a gun itself...
What about revolvers that seal the cylinder as part of normal operation?
Yep it’s still alot of over reaching with them alphabet boys. Thanks for sharing Pat
You need a good lawyer. The roughly 11 dB difference is not enough for a " suppressor" and they are saying that due to the sound being reduced, it is a suppressor. It would be interesting to find out what sound level difference due to safety is allowable with the NFA regulations or if there is a threshold sound difference in their regulations making the regulation itself useless. In my view, option 2 is to have slits on what would be front facing allowing any gasses to escape, and blow forward. This is my Canadian view on this.
So, don't keep your revolver near any towels . .
I keep 2 in the linen closet like a good American...or am I wrong? 🤔
The Mosin Nagant pistol can be muffled really well with suppressor .So are they say the Mosin Nagant pistol is illegal without tax stamp?
Great recent news
I hate to break it to you, but a silencer, (muffler) is a safety device that only becomes illegal when it's combuned with explusion of a projectile.
Car manufacturers aren't required to be class 3 dealers , nor are you required to go thru a gooberment mandated background colonoscopy to purchase a car with a gooberment mandated muffler on it. Imagine having to go thru that crap to buy a lawnmower, or chainsaw. The stupidity of gooberment is astounding at times and especially when it comes to an enumerated right in the bill of rights.
I personally hold with Thimas Jefferson's statement . Any law repugnant to the plain text of the constitution is null and void from it's onset.
silenced from "extreme hearing damage" to just "hearing damage". there is nothing "silent" about this device
ATF likes losing.
I like your deduction. Jelly that I didn't say that in the video.
@@PatRMG feel free to use it. and advise them to use it in court if it helps.
Suppressors shouldn't be an NFA to begin with. Movies have made people think it makes guns whisper-quiet, and that isn't even remotely close to being true. The effect is similar to wearing some cheap ear plugs. Still loud as hell, just helps you to prevent blowing out your eardrums.
Actually they haven’t lost yet. That was only in a circuit court. ATF will appeal to the appellate court and if they lose that they will appeal to the Supreme Court. ONLY after the Supreme Court hears it or refuses to hear it will it be over
5th Circuit would most likely agree with the district court.
Power harness'er? Power retention/capture?
LOL!!!!!!!! Look at THAT!
Well how does the aft look at that nagant revolvers?
What man would want to work for the ATF.
🤨YEP Turn the atf into a Party Store.!!! 🤔
I don't believe this is the last effort to ban pistol braces. We will see more about this.
Agree. The ATF will just rewright the law in a more simple form. Then enforce it all over again. They have nothing to loose.
I still never understand why the ATF has the ability to make a law where does it say the ATF can make a law I always thought it was Congress, and then the Senate who makes a law…!
Hmmm 133 db is silenced....... anything requiring hearing protection shouldn't be considered a suppressor
If firing gun inside building and hearing device is outside building, the report is silenced, therefore buildings are firearms
If you don't believe revolvers need safety device to protect from blowout from between cylinder and barrel........hold hotdog (keep hands away) next to cylinder and barrel and fire the gun
Cool beans
I'm confused as to why the creator even submitted this to the atf in the first place? You shot yourself in the foot on the one. Make it and sell it to the public without a care.
people losing their minds lately on the brace thing
The parts you designed have nothing to do with being a silencer or parts of it. Those are a breach sealing device, not a silencer.
So is a world war II Webley considered a silence handgun when you cock the gun the cylinder goes forward and seals itself against the barrel so is that a silence🤔 weapon
Sorry I’m not gonna finish watching this! They gonna come and get me cause I like you!😮
I dunno, looks more like an anti cylinder gab injury device.
Our government is out of it's mind.
Remember they don't make rules(law), another case for the Supreme Court...
There are groups like GOA who have lawers who would champion your cause....
Lose? Huh?...it was a district court decision...they will appeal...it's NOT over yet!😮
Here's a idea maybe go after some alcohol or Tabacco for a change!!!
I think it's an interesting device, but the law was written broadly in order to cover the "effect" of silencing as part of the definition. Basically, anything that reduces the noise when firing the weapon is considered a silencer, and any safety concerns that might be addressed by this device are irrelevant. People have argued for years that conventional silencers are hearing protection, but to no avail even though it's true. And while I understand the absurdity of calling a silencer a firearm, it's probably going to be a good thing in the end because the Bruen decision covers ancillary parts and devices as firearms under the 2A. It's going to be a while before our 2A rights are fully restored, so I don't know what else to tell you except to stay strong and have patience. We will win in the end because we're right, and because we're the good guys.
They will tackle the abortion issue .
We could use your tax dollars trying to stop gangs with wish switches from killing people but we’d prefer to stop .000000001% of potential crime. -the AFT
Absolutely ridicules.
I want to say that ive been violating that law the whole time.
You can spin this as a safety device, but it also suppresses the sound from the firearm. There are two uses for it and they are claiming the second use fails under their jurisdiction.
It might be two aluminum “ear muffs”, but the purpose that is important to the ATF is the sound mitigation quality.
I mean, I don’t like the ATF, but I appreciate a good argument. Yours just isn’t that great.
I mean, is it even really feasible to to silence or suppress a revolver? I mean you have the cylinder To barrel areas, it's like not one complete monolithic monolithic structure. Wouldn't that make it kind of pointless? But to me personally, the ATF is a massive imprisonment on our second amendment. Because the founders, what said that it was specifically up to the states to regulate firearms, not the federal government. So to me they're overstepping their bounds already. And that the only federal regulations would have to be passed through Congress. But I'm not even sure if that's constitutional. I mean, according to Bruin, you have to use text history and tradition. In and around the time the Constitution was ratified. Add, Ed. What's the west virginia v EPA decision The Supreme Court specifically said that Executive Branch agencies are not allowed to arbitrarily. Make up laws comma and that's exactly what the ATF does... Because they interpret rulis, interpret rules. Which is a fancy word for making up laws that have the force of jailtime behind them. So I don't understand how that's not a law. That Congress didn't sign off on. So to me, everything that isn't passed through Congress. Shouldn't be enforceable and the AFT should go back to being a tax collecthing agency like they were in the beginning
There are many good Second Amendment lawyers out there who should be able to take the man's case. As long as we are infested with liberals, progressives, etc, we will have situations like this one that do not make sense. It is "situational ethics". If it is good for their situation, it is ethical.
Defunded and bankrupt ! :)
Dude read the law and you’d understand this was not legal from the beginning. Anything that can reduce the noise of a firearm is illegal. Not only that but anything that intended to suppress sound but in actuality doesn’t is still a silencer under the law.
Then a long barrel is a silencer
@@Jeff-qk6ue well in theory yes you could get away with that. However you can read the law yourself.
The thing is using a bottle silencer which doesn’t really work is good for 10 years $250,000!!!
@@danielcurtis1434 same would apply to a pillow or any item of clothing that could be wrapped around a firearm. So right now I'm walking around wearing a couple of suppressors/firearms.....
defund
Make drugs illegal....
Something has to give its getting tiresome to hear
Apparently you must have the mental capacity of joe biden to work for the ATF.
🤣🤣🤣
When it comes to the ATF (or any other three-letter), we’re not sending our best.
Hahhahahahha
Pistol braces were used as a go-around in trying to circumvent the def of an sbr. Nudge nudge, wink wink. 99% of the time users never planned to use it as pistol brace, but rather a buttstock.
And…… where’s the problem?
@@nataliedeyton6829 the only problem is that everyone was perpetuating a lie about their intended use as a "brace". That's why the ATF came out against them in the first place.
@@ice-xv1hi Irrelevant. The ATF is a law enforcement agency and not someone who makes legislation. Whether or not they like the law is irrelevant.
So what if they did? It's their property and it hurt no one. The NFA is unconstitutional anyway and therefore must be ignored.
@@bwofficial1776 I agree that it should have been ok from the start, but was silly to be disingenuous about it. Like who did they think they were going to fool? Like it or not we have regulations over guns in the US. A lot of guns rights advocates talk tough but are you willing to go prison over your beliefs? I didn't think so.
Dude it’s very very clear you don’t understand the law!!! This is t the ATF being tyrannical this is literally the law as written!!
So any device is a “silencer” if it attempts to reduce the noise of a firearm or it actually reduces the noise of the firearm. The fact you made a gas seal revolver doesn’t surprise me at all they reacted this way.
If your entire gun is “suppressed” as in an integral suppressed gun your gun becomes the “silencer”.
What you could still try to do is to pitch it as a remedy for a revolver that has a 16” Barrel abd stock option. The big issue with revolving rifles is the cylinder gas. By having your gas seal serve a purpose other than sound suppression you would have been outside the territory of noise.
Another wise thing (if you can afford it) is to test the sound at the ear and muzzle with and without the device installed.
However the rant I just watched was unfounded and a bit misleading.
I hope you succeed I think a gas seal revolver would be awesome!!! I really think revolving rifles are underrated maybe that could change with a gas seal.
Don’t give up see if there’s any legal alternative for development that doesn’t require an SOT (although if you can find a friendly SOT go for it).
Keep going but you probably need to regroup a bit.
I only follow laws Congress makes, and the President then signs. Kinda a constitutional thing.
Does this change how I mount my Fleshlight to my revolver? Thanks btw, Chinga the ATF