@@And_Zo well it could be worse when the milk lorry goes to our neighbours by the time it gets back to the depot it has to open the back up to drop a lorry sized slab of butter. 😉
As a private seller, I've sold many cars that are not roadworthy but they are always sold as "Not roadworthy and has no MOT certificate so must be collected by trailer or I will deliver by trailer". The cars I sell which are roadworthy always have 12 months MOT. It's no big deal.
@@howardosborne8647 That, plus ensuring that the buyer either takes the vehicle away on a trailer or pays me to deliver it on a trailer. This ensures that there can be no comeback against me.
If you selling your Car and state beforehand that it is un-roadworthy and then someone buys it, it then fall's to The Buyer too decide what to do next, for any Buyer's actual reasons of purpose and circumstances are their own matters to deal with once they have paid and bought your Car from you.
This can create an interesting scenario, when, as i have done numerous times, you advertise a vehicle for sale 'spares or repairs only', 'no warranty implied or given' and 'will need to be removed on a recovery vehicle or trailer as not roadworthy and no current mot', and it has been sold and paid for online. The new owner subsequently turns up to collect his purchase, you give him the documents and provide him with a receipt which also clearly states that is has been sold for spares or repairs and has not been sold as in a roadworthy condition. He can 'wink wink' all he likes, the responsibility of how he gets his pile of spare parts home is now his sole responsibility. He was told at both the time of offering for sale and collection that it was not being sold as 'roadworthy' and would need a recovery vehicle or trailer to collect it. If he now subsequently jumps in it and drives off up the road, how could any court conclude that the seller, who has NO control whatsoever over the actions of the buyer, be in any way responsible for what may now happen ? Would any reasonable person expect the seller, on seeing that the buyer had not brought the means to 'recover' the vehicle without driving it, to now refuse to hand over the 'sold' vehicle and insist he takes his money back ? I think not. I would suggest that it all comes down to one thing: If you advertise a vehicle for sale as being in a 'roadworthy condition', then that's what it must be.
I used to work for a dealership (obviously I won’t say who it was but they went pop and the franchise was bought out and they have moved) but we had a vehicle traded in that had had a serious incident. It was sold without us knowing that it was bad.. despite going thru our workshop! Experian check didn’t find anything on it! Customer brought it back as it was acting weird. Turns out it was virtually a cut and shut vehicle! We just gave said customer another car of the same model off our pitch… fortunately it ended there with no legal battle! I was in after sales at the time but it really was a shocker for all of us!!! 😱 so yes, it can happen even in a professional dealership!
One thing that I think aught to be mentioned is a misconception by some that you can mutually contract out of the law. Someone I knew years ago sold a car with bald tyres and the purchaser signed a declaration that he was buying it with 2 bald tyres. Later he came back and wanted his money back. The person whop sold the car asked my advice and I told him to give the purchaser his money back and consider that he was getting off light. The declaration was in fact evidence supporting the committal of the offence, you cannot contract out of the law.
He would have been ok had it said something like "this vehicle is unroadworthy and as the buyer I'm not going to use it or permit it to be used on the roads in GB until it is made roadworthy". It means the buyer can't come back later and say that they hadn't been told that the vehicle was unroadworthy. Provided of course that the seller then doesn't watch the buyer drive it away.
Disagree. Seller would still be trying to contract out of the law. As BBB explains, it would have been an offence to offer the car to the buyer in the first place, unless it was offered specifically as a "non runner, spares or repair, or scrap", plus the insistance that it was to be taken away on a trailer. What I am trying to say is that two parties cannot agree to something illegal to make it legal. @@PeerAdder
How does this apply to vehicles sold at auction? Is the auction company exempt from responsibility for the roadworthiness of the vehicle, even if they have provided a mechanical condition report?
Probably works the same way, they probably have to have a reasonable belief that you won't drive it, IE you turn up with a trailer or tow truck to move the vehicle etc.
I sold an old car but it was unroadworthy but my caveat was that it was only to be used by the the purchaser as a Stockcar on a racetrack so it was never used on a road
You can stipulate anything you like, new owner gets to do what they like with their property. I’ll say anything to get your car…how about I sell you a house and stipulate you never redecorate 🤣😂🤣 have a nice day
@@BleachDemon99 you seems to have missed the point. What you stipulate are the conditions under which the buyer buts the véhicule. They can of course do what they wish with their purchase except bring it back to complain
That is a defence. A defence in which CPS probably isn't going to prosecute as they will think it fits into the mitigation, if not explicit. If you sell on-line or create an ad then best to say "not roadworthy" then there is no ambiguity. Defence and and exceptions are confused, as they can be very close in practice but theatrically there is a difference. The *starting point is an offence* then there are defences against that which is the point he is making. NI not covered as not in GB, but there is NI legislation that covers it. So NI is excepted form this legislation.But the importer an exporter may still be on the hook in that jurisdiction.
Regarding the "reasonable cause to believe" issue, is there anything similar in the legislation covering electric scooter sales? It's difficult to see how bike shops selling these things could claim not to know that the great majority are used illegally, yet they seem to get away with a very brief disclaimer pinned to the showroom wall which is almost universally ignored.
It is not the dealer's job to enforce the law! They are not sold as items to be used on the road; if the user takes them on the road., it's up to them.
@@edeledeledel5490 I'm not suggesting the dealer should enforce the law. As was clearly explained in the video, there are circumstances in which someone selling an item commits an offence if he has reason to believe the buyer intends to use it illegally. I was merely looking for some informed comment (with the emphasis on informed) as to whether that principle could apply to electric scooters.
@@ilb735 Nothing to with charging, just wondering what liability dealers might have when selling these toys to the sort of numpties who use them in complete disregard of the law.
@@andycomber2126 I think with scooters, there is no question whether they are legal; they aren't roadworthy, and are always sold as such. And you can always wheel them away without riding them, unlike a car, which is difficult to push any distance.
If it has an MOT and there are no obvious faults, then I would have thought that prosecuting a private seller might be difficult. He might have to repair it, but an MOT is only actually a sort of proof that the things tested are roadworthy at the time they are tested. There could be a hidden case of serious rust not detected by the MOT.
No he said exactly what he meant. It's illegal to sell an unroadworthy vehicle unless you have a reasonable belief it will not be driven on a road before being made roadworthy.
@@nekogod Quite frankly that sounds like crap. How the hell do you prove that someone has or has not a reasonable belief that it will not be driven on the road? Unless there is video evidence.
When I bought my van off Ebay, I traded in my old van for it and the trader wrote 'sold as spares' on the invoice. He watched me drive off in it and knew full well that I wanted a roadworthy van. A proper Arthur Daley, he is.
A trader tried to do the same with me and I cancelled the sale. I don't sign anything; and he can't afterwards make changes to the contract you signed. It's your fault to take the car away; because I wouldn't.
I bought my van 14 years ago. The dealer said. It's not a great van but it's should be good for a year or two. It now has 470,000 miles under its tyres. He accidentally sold me a great van. I've had very few issues with it.
@@S.Trades so the main comment and the other 2 replies all mentioned buying from dealers. In that context I think it is fair and reasonable to make a comment about traders. There's also a legal difference between a guarantee and a warranty. But, as you asked, Private sellers can be liable for the goods not being as described, so arguably they warrant their statements as accurate
It is not a crime to sell an un road worthy vehicle, providing it has been advertised as such, the buyer is again made aware of this fact when the vehicle is inspected by them, and it is thus stated in any receipt given during the sale, also they should be advised that they should arrange a form of transport for the vehicle so that it not driven on a public road.
I nearly choked on my coffee.. You said 'A reputable car dealer'. LMAO at that one. They are all as bent as a £3 note.. Car dealers/traders and politicians have a lot in common
@@championn3c574 people generally sell cars because they have developed a niggling fault that they consider too expensive for them to fix but they can't live with it.
Is "£3 note" a thing? I'm so old it has always been "bent as a 9 bob note". That is 9 shillings. I know in America there was a similar phrase for $3 dollar bills.
As youngsters friends and I used to often buy unroadworthy vehicles for the parts, in a few cases we did restore cars that were bought for parts. None of them involved deception or us being duped into buying them. As far as I understand it the MOT is NOT absolute proof of roadworthiness even at the time of certificate issue. For example they do not check the power of headlamps to verify they are consistent with the Construction and Use regulations. Sadly I have see many unroadworthy cars offered for sale in a manner that suggests the buyer would drive off in them.
Another Huge difference across the Pond. Over here we have a "Sold As Is" - the moment you sign the buyer agreement it is yours. Even if it suddenly burst into flames 10 seconds later. As-Is is As-Is here. Some states (Texas is one) have annual safety inspections. Many do not. We see many pickup trucks going down the road with the top of the bed into the cab, which is a good sign that the frame is broken.
This isn't about whether you as a buyer would have a claim against the seller, it's about whether the seller has committed a criminal offence in selling the vehicle whether or not you might have a claim against the seller.
I've purchased 3 vehicles that were not roadworthy including a 1954 Morris Minor. All were for restoration and were trailered home. However, none needed an MOT and all were taxed, so I COULD have driven them home. However, I'm not daft enough to do that until they are at least safe. However, a friend has a 1915 deDion Button which is driven a few times a year? Is it roadworthy - not by modern standards. Is it safe? Probably not. Is it legal to drive/buy/sell? Yes, of course it is! My Minor now looks like it's just come off the production line. It will never pass an MOT of course due to it's age. Indicators? stalks on the B pillars, no reversing lights, no seat belts, no fog lights and much more missing by modern standards :)
In France, if you sell a vehicle, it has to undergo a Contrôle Technique (MOT) if it is sold as roadworthy unless the current CT is less than 6 months old. If it is sold for scrap or to recover parts, this must be marked on the Carte Grise (Registration Document) which means it can no longer be registered as roadworthy. If you sell a car as roadworthy while knowing it has serious problems, this can come back to haunt you under the term "Vices Cachées" (Hidden Faults). If the car has serious problems that you know about and hide them from the buyer, you are liable and have to reimburse the buyer. Back in the early 80s in Norfolk I bought a car from the mechanic I was replacing at a boat hire company. The MOT still had 3 months to run. When I took it in for the MOT, it failed as the body was literally falling apart and had been stuck together with filler and painted over. Fortunately I hadn't paid much for it but it was a disgrace that someone could sell it to him and he could then sell it on to someone else. If in doubt, take a small hammer and test the bodywork.
@@jonb4248 Not hammering, just tapping. In the UK even rusty bodywork fails the MOT as it can cause physical damage and illness, eg tetanus, if the car hits a pedestrian.
@@williamgeorgefraser so you can’t if it’s something that’s a basket case and not roadworthy? France is not the place to trip over a barn find Gullwing or Aston..
To many people wanting their noses blown for them in the UK. We really are the dimmest witted bunch these days. The MOT doesn’t guarantee the car is road worthy, just let that sink in.
Private.. no comebacks ,sold as seen. . Norm.. sold for the purpose of spares or repairs, as inspected on or above date on top of letter. even if it has say 10 months mot.. YOU must state this on the bill of sale.. even if you drove it to a neutral meeting place yes you committed an offence when getting it there, its up to the buyer after purchase if to tow,trailer, or drive it away... otherwise every civilian on the planet would have to be an advanced mechanic.... TRADE.. defo has 10 times more legislation. Don`t get fooled by the MOT status.. of a vehicle.. at that moment of testing.. seen all 4 tyres removed and replaced prior to an mot.and then changed back to original condition prior to sale.. however there's an MOT history now for all vehicles free online, so continuous notice of leakage or defective ball joints 2 yrs running on a test , then you can be sure the problem still persists.
This is a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect in society today. I swear we're getting worse at listening and comprehension. You made it abundantly clear that this law is if you're selling the vehicle for use on the road. I don't know why it's so hard fo r dummies to understand.
You can always tell the person who gives you the wink to hold on a few minutes while you wrap it up for them. You then slap a couple of very large stickers on the windscreen and rear saying - SOLD AS UNROADWORTHY - NOT TO BE DRIVEN. You know, those the stickers that are a nightmare to get off.
@@BlackBeltBarrister it would help if you didn't repeatedly state it without the "for us on the road" over and over and reply quoting without the "for use on the road" and they to add it post hoc and claim no one listens
Some possible reasons: You can remove it from the seller's premises without using a road. It might not fall within the definition of "vehicle" used on this legislation. The definition of "unroadworthiness" in the legislation may only apply to something with a mechanical defect such as faulty brakes or bald tyres.
VERY funny. Why? Because I think back, prompted by this law I did not know existed - obvs the MOT side, yes, in general terms - to my past few vehicles. Let’s go in reverse order: Prius, presently repairing it because I discovered I have been entirely reliant on the regen braking ie ‘engine braking’ since before I even bought it ie during test drive also; Volvo V70 sold as Full Service History, found in fact it was a stolen stamp from Harratts Volvo Sheffield, handbrake never worked and it passed an MOT in that state and was looked at by the dealer who sold it and ‘supplied’ back to me as fine/roadworthy; VW Passat - this was having a major repair to the automatic transmission, and subsequently handed back to me, who phoned after a few miles, the guys came out, the wheels were loose, they’d only put the bolts in a few turns by hand; Peugeot 307 automatic, the engine revved uncontrollably for the first few minutes after starting; Citroen automatic of some sort, the brakes had corroded to the point the pads were not parallel with the disk ie salt acted with aluminium alloy to ‘wedge’ one side of the brake mounting, plus rear brakes seized anyway because of this. There are other cars I’ve bought that had troubles, but this list goes back to about the year 2004. I only buy cars with relatively hard lives/high mileage due to financial issues ie better cars have too high a price, I cannot afford them. The price of the vehicle, HAD NO BEARING on whether it was a good or bad car, up to a point. IE I have bought cars for £1200, that were brilliant, and had less trouble than this car I have now for over eight grand. However, as automatics go, the Prius is actually the BEST, because it has a very robust/simple gearing setup ie constantly-meshed gears, no gearchanges, no complex hydraulics just solid-state electronics and a brain to handle the 2 electric motor-generators and the engine. It has nuances, but fixed-gear Teslas aside, there’s nothing stronger. The VW Passat, the company repairing it were pretty angry when I rang to say it was making noise and something was weird with the steering. I was focused on the auto transmission repair, I had no idea they’d let loose a muppet on the stupid easy jobs, who was some weird kid they had employed, and he never tightened the wheel bolts (that’s their story anyway). Patently, massively unsafe. I drove almost home the 5 miles by the time I realised. So on the face of it, completely the repair had nothing to do with the issue they caused. they also took some parts from my car, and fitted them to another identical one they had in at the time. The rocker cover. I had one with a particular defect, and despite this other car having that same rocker cover, they denied it was mine but would ‘fit it to keep me happy’. Yes, top-league bullsh!t. The Prius, the guy selling it was able to fleece me for several reasons but most of all because I had never driven one. It’s an unusual car. I knew it had regen braking, I’d driven a Tesla and a LEAF and knew what that is from my youth (my father built an electric car in 1979 that he had MOT’d and drove 7 miles to work in and back, two big truck batteries). I didn’t realise how much this could mask dodgy rear brakes. Now I have taken the brakes apart, I am pretty horrified. I took photographs. Cutting a long story short, the key part of most disk brakes, is that the BRAKE PADS MUST BE FREE AND LOOSE ENOUGH TO SLIDE BACKWARD AND FORWARD FROM CONTACT WITH THE DISK THEY SQUEEZE. I had to hammer the sliding pin out with a lump hammer and stone chisel - ain’t nothing free to move about that! I knew this brake had not freed up with use, because the surface of the disk still had terrible rust pitting on it. If usable, working, the surface goes smooth and shiny again as it wears. Also, heat. Drive the car say ten miles. Put your hand on each of the brakes, or certainly the wheels (brakes themselves might be quite hot so beware). The front ones should be warm to hot, the back ones warm only. Depending on how hilly those ten miles were. If any of the brakes/wheels are pretty much ambient temperature, they are not working. If they are much hotter than the others, they are seized on. That’s the easiest test in the world. As I say, regen braking, masked this to the seller’s advantage, which they knew it would. So, the Prius was absolutely, even with a 4-month old MOT, not roadworthy, and indeed, could NEVER have passed that MOT. That was three years or more of salt-rust, not four months. The MOT station is dodgy, and the seller and their dealer brother, are fake b@st@rds. Now, I realise, I can report them for it, and the pics be used. The pair of them are in Leicester. The Volvo is a funny one. I bought it with FSH. I know this because I specifically ONLY looked for cars with FSH and various other parameters. Unbeknown to me, this inevitably, results in me looking at a list of the best-priced vehicles with FSH for the money…and of course, they’re bent motors. Not crashed bent but not what they seem. I phoned Harratts in Sheffield who confirmed they had sold this Volvo estate car, and they had serviced it until…sometime prior to the last stamp of theirs. I asked the obvious question ‘How come it has a stamp of yours when it wasn’t serviced that last time, by you?’. They said ‘Interesting. A mechanic left, and after that we noticed a stamp was missing, now we know where it went.’ Obvs, the mechanic went into doing ‘homers’ and used Harratts Sheffield stamp to make it all look kosher. His customers for whatever reason, went along. Why they thought he’d do the full works for less money I don;t know. He didn’t. More than half the cars then, in my lifetime of 60 years, have been sold to me or supplied to me by dealers or vendors, as roadworthy when they have not been. One of the best cars, a lovely Rover 827, with a great V6 engine, naturally was totalled or almost by a muppet who worked very hard to do it. He was parked on a double yellow. He had a dog in the car he’d just picked up, so a distraction. He had to not see me sat on a chevron area, indicator on waiting to move into traffic, and he had to CHANGE LANES to hit me. He did it all, and it was on video, and someone tried to tell me it was my fault - the guy who I decided, was the reason this muppet was turning right, to go to his company. They literally had a video TRAINED on the junction, it was so frequent for accidents to occur! I said ‘He wasn’t visiting you by any chance?’ They didn’t reply. I honestly didn’t realise it was an offence, as you outlined. Great tutorial on the law, thanks. If I get the time, I will pursue matters, we’ll see. I should say, I sent a recorded delivery letter to the Volvo FSH dealer guy, he had a used car lot right in the middle of Birstall, West Yorkshire (about 200 yards from where the lovely lady MP Jo Cox was killed, I’m afraid). It detailed the issues, and pointed out it couldn’t have passed an MOT. I also detailed the meeting I had with him about the brakes, after I drove it away. Cutting it short, I appeared to look away as he said he’d try the handbrake and see what he thought…I snapped my head back to look at him, saw him inside the car, left elbow leaning hard on the centre armrest, right hand helping to leverage the handbrake lever as hard as he could. I mean, my look just said FFS don’t embarrass yourself mate. He saw me see him do this, and still tried to blag it bald-faced lying little sh!t that he is. My letter came back, but opened, so he read it and somehow got it back to me. He wouldn’t have liked it much. About 3 months later, the dealership was gone, and the car lot has been empty to this day. My guess, is first he doesn’t need the money. Second, he’s set up elsewhere. 3rd, he’s sitting on it until he can get some planning or something to put houses there, or a grant for housing, or some such. Empty, I don’t think it attracts business rates. It cannot, or it wouldn’t be. Please remember, when you buy a used car, there are certain rules to abide by: 1 - Japan imports ALL have the speedo replaced. This is a red flag for a UK car, and no less so a Japanese one, just because there’s a legit reason, doesn’t mean they didn’t shave off miles because of it. I mean, why wouldn’t they? 2 - there’s a massive filtering of vehicles, before they get to a used car lot. That’s why almost all those cars, are garbage. One, the good ones from main dealers, are creamed off, which is where a lot of these cars come from. Two, at auction, the good ones are creamed off again, for friends & family, just like from the main marque dealers. Three - a final filtering at the point of the used car lot. Even here, where it’s 80% garbage, there are some half-decent ones left. Those, are gone too, to friends as a favour etc. Somebody somewhere always wants a car. Thus, there is a tri-stage filtering before the cars hit the used car lot like the Cypriot guy’s con-shop in Birstall. I have been to used car lots since, and my conclusion is, between so-called ‘private sellers’ who are actually unofficial agents for a dealer friend or family member, or who are doing it as a sideline, and also the normal rough trading that goes on, this is worse than ever. Buying a car now, it’s like houses, 80% plus, are over-priced garbage. If you are not swiping away 8 to 9 out of ten houses, or cars you see, you don’t know enough to be buying one. Just my view. Thanks again for this info, very useful, take care all.
Yes it is an offence and when I worked at trading standards we prosecuted people for doing so, one of which had defective brakes, and a petrol leak so bad the car could have caught fire.
Local garage was fined for selling a car that was unroad worthy with MOT by trading standards and the police via the courts recently . The key word here is road you can sell any motor vehicle in any condition if it's taking away on a trailer. Glad you explained the misconceptions that a MOT certificate covers the condition of a vehicle for the whole year
There's a whole list of pre-conditions for dealers to sell unroadworthy vehicles including no test drive (since it would need to be done on the road), the paperwork needs to clearly state that the vehicle is not for use on the road in its current condition and must be collected on a trailer. The customer would need to sign a declaration of their awareness of the vehicles condition and understanding of the law to protect the seller.
If I sold a vehicle for 'spares or repair' I would make the purchaser sign a note stating that the vehicle was not in a condition to be legally driven on the road.
Any Sale for Parts Goods goes the same for just about any other products that you can own with the exception of dangerous materials which are nothing to do with being non-roadworthy all of which should be pre-notified. It is not what you Sell that matters, for it is what anyone else wants to buy and then use perhaps the stripped-down Part's for of which is their choice to do so before disposing properly of any left overs.
This law is nuts. Either we need to be able to predict the future, or make the buyer take a lie detector test. And then we still have to go to court and prove that we are actually innocent. Creates work for barristers though, so not all bad.
Not really, you just have to have a reasonable belief, you don't have to know for certain. If someone comes to buy a car and you say oh it's not road worthy and they say ah no worries I'll bring a trailer to transport it and then I'll repair it before I drive it, and they do actually bring a trailer etc then even if they later drove the car on the road in an unroadworthy condition you'd almost certainly be fine as you definitely had cause to believe it would not be driven. It's just a bit of common sense, and if in doubt don't sell.
It's to help prevent people selling unroadworthy cars on to unsuspecting buyers. As a seller, get an up to date MoT. As a buyer, check all the obvious things and ask for an up to date MoT. If ithe sale looks too good to be true, that's usually because it is.
I've been MOT ing since 1990, they used to have it printed on the old MOT certificates when they were pre printed out forms, now they are just printed on copier paper it doesn't say. I used to point it out to customers when they would say "It's OK for 12 months now". I used to say "It's better than new now, it should last for years" Then point out the back of the certificate.
This also applies to both mechanical workshops and bodyshops who repair vehicles and allow an unroadworthy vehicle back on the road. How would you report a business for allowing an unsafe vehicle back on the road? when you contact the police, they have no interest at all.
So as long as you present during the sale that there are issues that make the vehicle unroadworthy then its ok, it's more about selling a vehicle that isn't roadworthy without telling the buyer, or knowing they will drive it and allowing it.
I sold a rusty vw camper van for £800 , around the value of the westfallia extendable roof and interior furnishings 2nd hand value , the advert stated it was for spares or repairs , the buyer signed a sales receipt saying he understood that one in MOT worthy condition was £7500 and this is a restoration project for £800. he then paid and went off with the keys and v5 , saying a man with big trailer would move it off my land . BUT... 2 days later he returned , put false number plates on it , drove off and got all the way to Ardrossan ferry terminal heading fore Republic of Ireland where motorhomes need no mot . Or did then 25yrs ago. On the keyside he was pulled by the police and his scheme was found out . Vehicle confiscated , his big sister, who lived in the same city as me , then started "legal procedings" to try and get some or all his money back. I told them very politely to get stuffed . Some people are just idiots.
7:25 If you saw them drive it away, but you had already sold it believing that they would not drive it on the road, the doubt would have arising after the transaction had been completed. I do not see how the defence would not be acceptable in this case.
i always thought the key phrase in the "law" was "knowingly". ie its illegal to sell it knowingly; if you are aware of it being unroadworthy. always good to listen to your full explanations though
I sold a motorcycle privately without MOT in the early eighties, and i made the buyer sign a note i wrote out saying....Sold as seen tried and tested....The motorcycle was in good condition but did have an engine issue.
Hang on. If you sell it to them for spares and repair, and then you see them drive away in it, how can you be guilty of an offence if, prior to the transaction, you did not know, or suspect that they were going to drive away in it.
Also worth noting that an MOT is a general test of a vehicles roadworthiness and is not absolute in it's testing. Your vehicle could have many faults causing it to be no longer roadworthy, and it would not be noticed on an MOT test. One example would be a faulty speedometer. During an MOT the visibility of the speedo (no cracks in display, well lit and no visible damage to speedo) is checked, but the function isn't checked. If your speedo is inaccurate then it would likely pass an MOT, yet still be unroadworthy at the exact time the MOT certificate was issued. Many vehicles on our roads have no MOT certificate at all, but are still permitted to drive on the roads if they are roadworthy.
If a seller had no reasonable chance of knowing a car was unroadworthy can they still be prosecuted? Way back in the late 1980s a used vehicle was purchased privately, a few months later part of the front the suspension collapsed, luckily a few seconds before the steering pulled to one side so we pulled over, then the car wheel literally collapsed onto it's side as a wishbone snapped which could have caused a serious accident if the car was still moving. We was told that a hairline fracture was likely spreading inside the wishbone after a previous accident that would have been undetectable at the time of repair, in fact the car passed an MOT, but the car was still sold unroadworthy and dangerous.
I bought (and later sold for scrap) an unroadworthy van to be used as a literal shed on private property; not from Copart but from a random dealer. When I bought it, it came with paperwork I had to sign stating it was sold as unroadworthy and had to SORN it immediately, can't use it on the road blah blah. That all seems to fall neatly under 6A(a) at 09:00 and I can only imagine is a standard part of all their sales. As for 6A(b), Having looked at Copart's website, the only thing I can see on there is the category; I'm no lawyer, and I imagine they have run their whole business model through plenty, but I'd have expected a big banner explicitly stating its unroadworthiness to make absolutely sure they're covered. For the CPS to knowingly attempt a prosecution against a salvage company that has most likely covered themselves with those exemptions would be a waste of resources, and as I can't find anything for crown vs copart uk, very likely not.
I would argue that watching them drive away in it does not change anything. If you reasonably believe that they will not drive it, they hand over the cash, you hand over the keys and both sign a contract / bill of sale which includes the condition that it is not to be driven in the road. The sale / supply of the vehicle is not complete, you are waiting for them to call a tow truck or arrange a trailer, but they get in and drive off before you can stop them. I would argue, that they drove it AFTER the sale / supply of the vehicle and before that moment you reasonably understood that they wouldn't do that.
I have had two 2nd hand car selling enterprises in my time, one on the streets of south London the other a pretty extensive one in Bournemouth and what had people coming back time and again for family and friends was I always ensured safety issues like brakes, tyres, suspension were good at point of sale, never dropped that bar on any motor and whilst the paint might be rough and not in pristine condition people would buy my cars knowing I always maintained that minimum and this was before it became law. It just made good sense, selling deathtraps that lose control and wipe out a bus queue is not a good thing in anyones book and there were merchants before and since who simply polished a brown thing and charged top dollar for it too. Very very few comebacks too and the ones I remember were easily remedied and not safety stuff. One charming endorsement was couple years ago visiting Bournemouth I bumped into a prior customer who told me he still had the car he bought, never let him down, sailed through the mot's, good strong engine and box still so not bad for 20 years of daily driving.
Using this logic, would it not then become illegal to sell anything and everything, unless you can prove otherwise? For example: It is illegal to sell a scarf, unless it is a scarf, can serve its purpose as a scarf andbwill not be used to do any of the following: A) Murder someone B) steal C) Hide one's identity during a crime D) Is used as a fire started for arson E) Used for sabotage resulting in harm, death or damage Ect)...
Very timely and useful. Had MOT & service last wed drive car straight home did not use it but noticed on friday frobt replaced tyre flat as pancake. Checked pressure was at zero inflated it. Left front tyre was at 200 rear tyres at 175. Phoned garage told them tyre was flat again was told to inflate it and drive it to garage carefully!!! Decided to call out AA whi confirmed massive leak from bead trim and changed to spare wheel as car not safe to drive. I have a continuous service & MOT history with the service centre sunce buying car from them. I also explained that on the way home after a stop light my car refused to move and slippery surface warning light came on. I put car back into park then tried again snd accelerated slightly and it started to move. I requested new tyre be fitted. Keys brought back and I asked if new tyre had been put on was told no it was checked and deemed to be ok to refit. said i was not happy but felt railroaded into accepthng this despite arguing and even though it was confirmed that my tyre could not be used as new to put onto another car. I wrote complaint by email and new tyre was fitted next day. How does law apply in this scenario?
Blackbeltbarrister questions ❓ noise cameras .... some places have noise cameras put up by local authorities, if my car / motorcycle passes an MOT of which the mot'er will assess if the exhust is to loud. As long as you dont change it how can a noise camera pick up your vehicle and issue you a penalty ticket. Especially as to get a correct reading it is supposed to be six feet from noise source and in the open there are other contributing noise factors 😊
"it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger if injury to any person" - this describes all of the vehicles on the road today. The single most dangerous device operated by anyone presenting a genuine danger of injury to any person (all other road users) - proven hundreds of times per day as people are involved in road traffic accidents.
Interesting side note regarding low-loaders... my BMW (don't judge, not my choice) lost power on dual carriage way and I got it to hard shoulder, police turned up within 10 minutes, the fuel gauge saying it was quarter full, but actually empty which they checked and kindly gave me a lift to nearest garage to get fuel (didn't work) ... I didn't have rescue service and had phoned to get a low-loader and was bitching to the police officers about the cost. They looked at each other and said it was a good price, actually £30 cheaper than police vehicles were charged! Oops! Hopefully this corruption was addressed, probably not 😢
😂 Dodgy dealers, ineffective police and level of proof with hollowed out citizens advice. Unless the vehicle kills someone-more chance of winning lottery. Castles in the sand
My memory was that it was an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle (or at least one which it is clear the seller must have known was unroadworthy).. even if the buyer knows it. What was not unlawful - as I remember - was to sell a vehicle for spares so long as you insist it is taken away on a trailer. (or possibly on tow).
So based on the "It is in such a condition that it's use on a road would involve a danger or injury to any person" would this mean that if a buyer brought a car that is rear wheel drive and they'd never driven a rear wheel car before, and they had an accident in it due to their unfamiliarity with rear wheel drive cars or driving the car in snow/ice, would the seller be liable as they'd sold it to someone who can't drive a rear wheel drive car thus putting themselves and others in danger or at risk of injury?
I wouldn't have thought so otherwise you could apply that to so many things, like first time a person buys a performance car etc it would be a nightmare. Although I'm not sure that's a good example I found my first rear wheel car didn't drive all that differently except that the steering was lighter when turning. Was a bit of a double whammy as well cause I went from a citroen c4 to a mercedes amg c class. It might apply for very new drivers, like I'd be wary of selling something like that to a 17 year old. But to anyone with a couple years driving experience it should be fine.
Retired now, I used, decades ago, to dabble in classic cars (mainly Minis.) I both sold and bought just a few vehicles totally unfit to be used on the road. Always with a view to restoration or converson to a standard that WAS road legal. I even drove one for years - a beautiful job of restoration if I do say so myself. But of course NEVER driven in either direction if non-road-legal - that was a job for suitable transport carriers. In which case, given plain declarations of non-roadworthiness, I find it impossible to understand, in retrospect, what laws were possibly broken. That said, I was often aware of a possibility that some brain-dead buyer (and - god - there were SO many!) might just put that car straight onto the road. But - having given what I regarded as good-faith, written warnings about both the car and the law, I didn't see I had any further responsibility.
I know of a dealer that this happened to even though he clearly advised that it was sold as unroadworthy & it was transported in a different vehicle away from his dealership. The only mistake he made was the give the new owner the new owners part of the v5c it appears the dealer should of posted it not handed it over this was the court's decision.the dealer had to bring the vehicle up to a road legal condition.
The answer lies in whether or not any un-roadworthy vehicles are used for Public road transportation without having a valid MOT Certificate, or otherwise anyone knowingly driving any such Road Vehicles that you possitively are aware of beforehand to be in an un-roadworthy state of condition while still having a valid MOT Certificate. So, is it an Offence to sell a vehicle that is not roadworthy. The Answer is NO it is not an Offence to SELL any such a vehicle however it is an Offence to knowingly drive such a vehicle upon any Public Roads, whereas you can in theory still dive such a vehicle upon any Private Roads or Land at your own risk. Many people sell un-roadworthy vehicles to someone else for spare parts or to be repaired and made roadworthy once again. These vehicles should however be moved from one location to another upon Public Roads in their un-roadworthy condition by a Licenced Transporter of Road Vehicles either upon a Low-Loader or by being Towed and not under their own power to their new destination. The only time many road vehicles are prevented from being re-sold as spare-parts is when they fall fully under the ownership of any Insurance Company whom have Written-Off any such vehicles from being returned for road use, however it is the case that when these vechicles are broken down some of the still reusable parts are then resold again if they are deemed undamaged and fit for re-sale and re-use. Vehicle Breaker Yard's do keep part's mainly for older Road Vehicles whereby spare replacement parts are hard to come by.
As Dan has said, thousands of garages sell unroadworthy vehicles everyday. There is a car dealer close to where i live, they don't have a workshop and all they do is buy the cars from the local auction, wash them and put them on sale complete with any faults that were there when they bought them. Want a new MOT with no advisories, no problem! is the car capable of passing that MOT probably not, i think you get the picture.
If you are going to part with thousands in hard earned cash for a second hand car then its well worth the fees to get an independent vehicle check prior to purchase from the AA or RAC etc. If the dealer is reluctant walk away a good dealer will encourage you to get one since it also covers them.
You need a good independant vehicle engineer to fully examine the car you intend to buy. The AA / RAC only look for obvious faults and leave it to you to find bodywork issues. Some garages are asscociated with the AA / RAC so they don't look to hard.@@erasmusvenport8830
Years ago I had a mate that sold his old Ford Anglia one morning for an exchange value of £70 to a garage in part-exchange for a newer car. That afternoon he was driving past the garage and saw it on the forecourt, having been cleaned, for sale for £270. Pity about the extensive bodywork rust underneath; he must have been a fecking quick welder.
I bought three cars private sales last December an Alfa romeo mito, Vauxhall insignia and Astra. Paid £1500 for each car, they were all knackered, three broken cars sold as good reliable cars by dishonest people no comebacks sold as seen 🤦♂️ Doh!
Perhaps it's me, Dan, but I've always understood that vehicles (either brand new or pre-owned) must be in a roadworthy condition at point of sale - be that privately, or from a recognised dealership. In years gone by, I have purchased cars that are unroadworthy, but I always picked them up using a trailer, & once home, declared Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), & then sought to make good - using the aforementioned tralier to transport said vehicle to an MOT station for examination; certainly, there's an added fiscal outlay to oneself, but these cowboys who profess roadworthiness (& are clearly not), deserve an exacting punishment. Over the years, I've bought & sold several cars - all of which have met the required standard. It would be unconsionable to sell on a vehicle that say, seriously injures or kills the driver or occupants - the greed & chicanery of such individuals, whilst unsurprising, irritates beyond all reasonable measure. I am (also) glad you mentioned the 'validity' of an MOT Certificate - many owners are unaware of what that constitues in law - excellent !
Isn't that the point though? It's not an offense if you're buying a vehicle not roadworthy under that explicit understanding, and picking it up with a trailer or other transport. Otherwise it's common sense that it's illegal to sell a vehicle under the pretense of it being roadworthy when it isn't.
I didn't think you had to use a trailer to go to an MOT test, you can drive there and back even your car fails as long as it is not too dangerous to drive..
@@edeledeledel5490 No, you don't, but a trailer covers all eventualities - & I'd never personally drive any vehicle that was deemed unroadworthy; each to their own.
I suspect this is where the UK differs from Ireland. In Ireland a private individual selling a second hand vehicle with a valid NCT Test only has to include the words bought as seen to place the onus or responsibility on the person purchasing it. There would be issues which would arise in any claim by the purchaser, age and value of the vehicle, the buyer beware principle. If a person has a valid and current NCT then it is reasonable for them to conclude the vehicle is road worthy, so long as they have not altered it since the test was done. There is a higher standard placed on garages / dealers, they are required to provide a warranty, again the age of the vehicle will affect the length of the warranty
It ISN'T an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle otherwise scrapyards would be out of business as would most dealerships 2nd hand car trade. It IS an offence to claim the vehicle is roadworthy when it isn't. For use on public land, and most insurance policies, the MOT is used for proof of roadworthiness however for use on private land there are no real standards. The issue is if the person who PURCHASES the vehicle has been irrefutably informed of the status of the vehicle or not.
Off topic slightly, can you do something on fly tipping? Context : I regularly visit fly tipping sites and take things that have been tipped. I never fly tip myself. I've been wondering if taking things is illegal. Like am I stealing from the council? "Stealing by finding"?
Long time ago...we sold a car with n/s front disc missing. A week later the plod were at my door asking about the car, said we sold it privately at Bawtry auctions. They said it had been involved in a ram raid. I still wonder if the guy hit the anchors and it swerved through a shop window!
I and a great many other people have bought and sold vehicles that were not roadworthy with the intent to make them roadworthy before use. The whole of the classic car market has this as an overriding feature of its dealings. If I bought a vehicle to use immediately on the road I endeavour to ensure that it has a new MOT, regardless when the last one ran out to the point where I would pay the MOT fee on top of the price of the vehicle. I doubt that most private sellers of cars could identify that their vehicles were unroadworthy, you only have to look at the state of some vehicles sent in for MOT to confirm that. You also have to ask the question as to what is the situation with cars sold at auction, where all are sold as roadworthy unless there is a specific reason why they aren't. With the volume of auction sales it is highly likely that unrecognised unroadworthy vehicles are frequently sold as fit for road use, the auction houses do not carry out extensive inspections on the 1000s of vehicles that pass through every week. To my knowledge the police are reluctant to prosecute individuals for selling an unroadworthy vehicle.
3:50 What if an aftermarket accessory has been fitted (e.g. Jaguar bonnet mascot, bull bar, light bars) to a vehicle which would, or could "involve risk of injury to any person" - I'm thinking pedestrians in particular. Would this be illegal?
Simply depends on whether the modification makes the car "unroadworthy" - whatever that means.. All vehicles (especially bicyles and motability scooters!) ""involve risk of injury to any person".
There's a million ads on Ebay for cars that say "Spares or repairs", I dunno how someone who claims to know about car sales can never have seen them....
Good video. Genuine question - if you trade in an unroadworthy car for part exchange, and make no mention of it's condition, are you selling/supplying it to the car seller, thereby making it an offence? There has got to be plenty of those transactions happening!
Im going to guess that you can sell anything "as it is", providing it's not prohibited by law and you're clear and honest about what is on offer. I suppose a heap of scrap is no longer considered a vehicle.
Can of worms ?? Firstly does this cover bycycles in UK ? Ok well I'm in Ireland and we have similar shops 99% of these shops will sell you a bike which is most certainly a road vehicle with not a hint of a light to be seen ,no light on a bike is illegal here I'm sure it's same there , are all these shops some of which are toy shops selling illegal bycycles?
If I buy a cheap car, I always scrap it when I am done with it. My conscience is clear. Otherwise I advertise it with brutal honesty, saves on tyre kickers.
A farm I used to work on used to buy scrap vehicles cheap, strip them down to make one working vehicle. So while the initial vehicles bought were not road worthy, what they had at the end was one road worthy vehicle and one pile of scrap and parts
When my mate wanted his first car about 1968, his dad bought two old ex-post office Morris Minor 5 cwt vans for £5 each at auction, one with a rotten chassis and one with a knackered engine, and built a serviceable van out of them. My mate painted it with bright blue Magicote one-coat paint with a brush, and used it for about 3 years. He gave it to his younger sister, who used it for 2 or 3 years. Those old post-office vans were built like brick sh!thouses. One day my brother and another mate saw it being driven and thought the suspension was very low, so they flashed her. She stopped, got out and ran over to them to ask if they would give a couple of people a lift, which they agreed to. Turns out it was low on the suspension because there was a total of 17 people in it, including the driver... probably a load of over a ton rather than 5 cwt. Those were the days...
You can sell a vehicle stating it has no MOT or as Spares or Repairs.Its entirely up to the buyer to decide whether to drive it away or recover it surely? Even with an MOT technically that only proves that a vehicle was deemed roadworthy on the day it was tested.
No because if they turned up to take the car without a means of transporting it, and you could see they were intending to drive it away, you're still liable.
@@lordcustard-smythe-smith9153 I cant see after the sale and exchange of cash and V5 how it be the responsibilty of the vendor at that point.Surely by law he/she no longer owns that vehicle and the liabilty stands with the new keeper as to what to do from that point.
spare or repairs is way too broad, as like the car I bought yes seller did list it as drivable, apart from abs sensor needed replacing. nothing to say major defects on the passenger side like the coil/suspension had snapped in 3 pieces on both front corners, nothing to say that most of the things holding the front passenger side wheel on were unsafe, and could cause a serious accident if the car is driven. as far as I was aware was photos on uneven ground to get the car to sit level, and the listing saying the car is drivable, the fact it had an MOT 2 months prior to purchase with 0 advisories, and 0 defects. which can happen with a back hander. tyres and stuff didn't matter too much as always replace them when buying a used car. but to have a shopping list of parts from my garage as long as your arm for a car that you just bought when only 1 item listed and an mot inspection. is pushing it to the extreme when it exceeds the cars value by 2-3 times.
Why on earth would it be an offence to sell a vehicle that is unroadworthy? You'd not be able to buy parts cars if that were the case. The laws in the UK are absolutely backwards. Everything is illegal and you have to rely on defences. We need to get this changed.
Personally if I was to sell a car for spare parts, I would just take the tyres off then it would have to go on a trailer and not driven. That solves that problem 😊
I have an uncle who died before I was born who died due to an unroadworthy car (two cars merged together) he was 19 years old. The fact some people would think this is ok blows my mind…
No one thinks a cut and shut is ok . I know someone who put his own cut and shut together then had an accident a year later losing his foot . Sadly the only thing you can do is be vigilant in the way you inspect vehicles
Not a criminal offense (offence) here in the US. The phrase "sold as is" applies, however clearly misrepresenting a vehicle's condition or masking/hiding a known major problem could be held as a civil liability (could get sued privately). Ultimately it's up to the seller to act in good faith (not lie or mask problems) and up to the buyer to ensure road-worthiness, often via mechanic pre-sale inspection.
My daughter bought a car from a dealership that turned out to not be roadworthy. She had real trouble rejecting the car and getting her money back (Initial deposit and first few finance payments). Dealership and trading company were an absolute nightmare to deal with. In the end the finance company got involved and she got some money back. Should we persue this? As in report, take to small claims? Both the dealership and the trading company have terrible reviews and have both sold unfit cars (knowingly) for a long time. This particular one had an obviously false MOT, tyres were so bald the AA inspector was shocked.
I have bought and sold many motorcycles that are not for the road. They are easy to tell. No indicators and number plates. These have been what is called dirt bikes. Purley for use off road on dirt tracks.
spares or repair is still too broad when selling a car unless it is listed with defects that would fail an MOT for, like bought a car, and the garage came back with defects as long as my arm for all the components to keep the passenger wheel from flying off, as well as wishbone on the drivers side the bushings had perished, both front coil springs had snapped in 2 or more places, and the car was positioned on an uneven surface to make the car look like it was sitting level, and the car classed as drivable even though the abs sensor was the only thing listed as needing replacing. no mot failures, and no mot advisories 2 months prior, yet the coils were 95% rusted through, so think people use spares or repairs too broadly as a "get out of jail free card". so I can see why people would want to list a car as spares or repairs and then not mention a single thing about the defects that would fail an MOT. when it should be for minor things like interior and not MOT tested items, unless listed in the vehicles description, like it should be, and not listed as driveable implying that it is safe to drive on the public roads, or safe enough to go putting your life in even more danger like banger racing on a track.
If you sell it for spares or repair only, as it is unroadworthy, then I can't see how the seller is responsible in any way for its condition, unless you ask about something and are told lies. It is the buyer's responsibility to check the vehicle, as "Spares and Repair only" implies major faults that are likely to be MOT fails.
Another one I've heard is that you're allowed to sell x number of vehicles a year as a private seller and is used as a way of earing a bit of cash on the side while avoiding the sale of goods act. I'm pretty sure it's untrue and that the HMRC doesn't care how many vehicles you've sold as you are liable for tax on income above your annual allowances.
If you sell a car print off a bill of sale and both of you sign it. Email your car insurance to cancel policy before you let them drive off. Make sure Bill of sale has that clearly noted they must secure their own insurance before driving.
And tax it - tax is no longer transferrable. It gives lots and lots of money to the DVLA with the tax for unused parts of the month of each car transferred. For each car transferred privately, the DVLA makes a month of the tax, as profit, and even if it is transferred to a dealer, they will lose whatever portion of the last month is unused.
A professional car sales company sold me a car with 4 illegally bald tyres on it. When I told them, they said they didn’t have to. Brothers car sales ltd, London.
So what about people selling e-scooters and e-bikes >250W and modifications to exceed 15.5 mph.. Surely they are not roadworthy? They pretend they are for off road use/ private land only. And now, having listened completely the definition of roadworthy is dangerous- steering, tyres, brakes and likely to cause injury. The likelihood of being unreliable- boiling coolant/ headgasket/ main bearings on way out, failing clutch, failed ABS pump (where brakes still work). failed Aircon do not constitute roadworthy. Interesting. Thanks.
do auctions selling to both trade and to the public have some exemption to this? they claim to be exempt, are simply arranging the sale between the seller and the buyer, and keep the saller anonymous. bought a car from a local auction a few years back which had failed an MOT for a long list of problems then passed the same day, then had failed again 3 months later with the same long list of problems. i bought it in this condition with 9 months of MOT believing it was roadworthy (or was declaired at MOT testing as fully roadworthy only 3 months previously).
You can sell anything if done so properly. Selling an unroadworthy vehicle is not an offence if you don't mislead. EG: _I have a car which has 4 bald tyres - but it's otherwise okay._ - .... This would be okay - however, if you then get the tyres sorted and use the thing only to discover the brakes are bad AND I almost certainly knew about it but didn't divulge then the law kicks in
I don't even have to watch but selling second hand stuff is always buyer beware unless the seller states that it is in good order and warranted. There is nothing wrong with selling "unroadworthy cars" because how would the whole scrap dealer recycling mechanism work? How would anyone get a "barn find" of a classic car and restore it? Just don't drive it on the road without insurance. You can drive it without tax and MOT to a garage in order to get it sorted for the MOT and then the tax. However if it is unroadworthy then it can be pulled there and then. So trailer it.
Having sold a lot of motors as spares or repairs I always state the vehicle needs to be trailered away . That totally covers you for idiots who would try it on with you .
How about a vehicle from say 1930 that predates construction & use regulations, or a vehicle for track use, maybe on slick tyres, maybe on competition tyres that are clearly marked ‘not for road use’, maybe one with no lights, maybe even a sale of a chassis plate and a V5 where no other part of a vehicle actually exists.
In other words it is an offence to sell a non-roadworthy car if there is reasonable grounds to believe it is going to be used on the road without being fixed first. It's also clearly illegal to sell a non-roadworthy car as if it is roadworthy, but that's hardly a surprise. So, in essence selling a non-roadworthy car is not necessarily an offence (or is there some peculiar legal nicety is that something is still an offence if there is a defence and a conviction can't be obtained). So a blanket statement that is an offence to sell a non-roadworthy car is just as wrong as to say it is not an offence to sell a non-roadworthy car. It's necessary to know all the relevant particulars with regard to the sale and deal with those as well.
It's a huge shame that the roads aren't vehicleworthy 😥
It's so they can test their lunar rovers and vehicles for Mars in realistic conditions. 😉
LMFAO very true
@@SlipShodBob Haha the moon is probably less damaging 😂😂😂
@@And_Zo well it could be worse when the milk lorry goes to our neighbours by the time it gets back to the depot it has to open the back up to drop a lorry sized slab of butter. 😉
Sounds like it should be made into an April Fools case.
As a private seller, I've sold many cars that are not roadworthy but they are always sold as "Not roadworthy and has no MOT certificate so must be collected by trailer or I will deliver by trailer". The cars I sell which are roadworthy always have 12 months MOT. It's no big deal.
So that is basically offering for sale on the basis of 'not roadworthy,sold for spares or repair only'
@@howardosborne8647 That, plus ensuring that the buyer either takes the vehicle away on a trailer or pays me to deliver it on a trailer. This ensures that there can be no comeback against me.
So basically it boils down to "depends who you're selling it to, for what purpose, & in what circumstances".
If you selling your Car and state beforehand that it is un-roadworthy and then someone buys it, it then fall's to The Buyer too decide what to do next, for any Buyer's actual reasons of purpose and circumstances are their own matters to deal with once they have paid and bought your Car from you.
Exactly. This was my thoughts too.
It is 100% legal to sell an unroadworthy vehicle in the uk.
@@shuttlecrab did you watch the video?
@MrDblStop Yep. Did you?
He says that it is legal.
What is illegal, is to sell it as a roadworthy vehicle.
Selling, in and of itself, is not illegal.
@@shuttlecrab You're simplifying that too much and what you say there is misleading.
This can create an interesting scenario, when, as i have done numerous times, you advertise a vehicle for sale 'spares or repairs only', 'no warranty implied or given' and 'will need to be removed on a recovery vehicle or trailer as not roadworthy and no current mot', and it has been sold and paid for online. The new owner subsequently turns up to collect his purchase, you give him the documents and provide him with a receipt which also clearly states that is has been sold for spares or repairs and has not been sold as in a roadworthy condition. He can 'wink wink' all he likes, the responsibility of how he gets his pile of spare parts home is now his sole responsibility. He was told at both the time of offering for sale and collection that it was not being sold as 'roadworthy' and would need a recovery vehicle or trailer to collect it. If he now subsequently jumps in it and drives off up the road, how could any court conclude that the seller, who has NO control whatsoever over the actions of the buyer, be in any way responsible for what may now happen ? Would any reasonable person expect the seller, on seeing that the buyer had not brought the means to 'recover' the vehicle without driving it, to now refuse to hand over the 'sold' vehicle and insist he takes his money back ? I think not. I would suggest that it all comes down to one thing: If you advertise a vehicle for sale as being in a 'roadworthy condition', then that's what it must be.
Doesn't he cover that exact scenario in the video and conclude the opposite?
I used to work for a dealership (obviously I won’t say who it was but they went pop and the franchise was bought out and they have moved) but we had a vehicle traded in that had had a serious incident. It was sold without us knowing that it was bad.. despite going thru our workshop! Experian check didn’t find anything on it! Customer brought it back as it was acting weird. Turns out it was virtually a cut and shut vehicle! We just gave said customer another car of the same model off our pitch… fortunately it ended there with no legal battle! I was in after sales at the time but it really was a shocker for all of us!!! 😱 so yes, it can happen even in a professional dealership!
One thing that I think aught to be mentioned is a misconception by some that you can mutually contract out of the law. Someone I knew years ago sold a car with bald tyres and the purchaser signed a declaration that he was buying it with 2 bald tyres. Later he came back and wanted his money back. The person whop sold the car asked my advice and I told him to give the purchaser his money back and consider that he was getting off light. The declaration was in fact evidence supporting the committal of the offence, you cannot contract out of the law.
He would have been ok had it said something like "this vehicle is unroadworthy and as the buyer I'm not going to use it or permit it to be used on the roads in GB until it is made roadworthy". It means the buyer can't come back later and say that they hadn't been told that the vehicle was unroadworthy. Provided of course that the seller then doesn't watch the buyer drive it away.
Disagree. Seller would still be trying to contract out of the law. As BBB explains, it would have been an offence to offer the car to the buyer in the first place, unless it was offered specifically as a "non runner, spares or repair, or scrap", plus the insistance that it was to be taken away on a trailer. What I am trying to say is that two parties cannot agree to something illegal to make it legal. @@PeerAdder
How does this apply to vehicles sold at auction? Is the auction company exempt from responsibility for the roadworthiness of the vehicle, even if they have provided a mechanical condition report?
Yes, sold as seen. Crash damaged vehicle auctions are doing incredible business these days.
Probably works the same way, they probably have to have a reasonable belief that you won't drive it, IE you turn up with a trailer or tow truck to move the vehicle etc.
I sold an old car but it was unroadworthy but my caveat was that it was only to be used by the the purchaser as a Stockcar on a racetrack so it was never used on a road
Or you could stipulate séparés & repair
You can stipulate anything you like, new owner gets to do what they like with their property. I’ll say anything to get your car…how about I sell you a house and stipulate you never redecorate 🤣😂🤣 have a nice day
@@BleachDemon99 that's right but if you stipulated spares and repairs you are free of blame
@@BleachDemon99 you seems to have missed the point.
What you stipulate are the conditions under which the buyer buts the véhicule. They can of course do what they wish with their purchase except bring it back to complain
@@stephenrichards5386 no you pair have. I’m replying to the original comment regarding the caveat….keep up lads 🙄
You can sell a car with no wheels or windows. This is a fact.
I think you meant sell a car as roadworthy that turns out to not be so.
That is a defence. A defence in which CPS probably isn't going to prosecute as they will think it fits into the mitigation, if not explicit. If you sell on-line or create an ad then best to say "not roadworthy" then there is no ambiguity.
Defence and and exceptions are confused, as they can be very close in practice but theatrically there is a difference.
The *starting point is an offence* then there are defences against that which is the point he is making.
NI not covered as not in GB, but there is NI legislation that covers it. So NI is excepted form this legislation.But the importer an exporter may still be on the hook in that jurisdiction.
Which he clearly said right at the start of the video.
Universal salvage auctions sell unreadworthy vehicles for customers to repair and restore all the time
If you'd watched the video you'd know BBB said this.
Just out of interest - wouldn’t putting a car on a forecourt be an invitation to treat? Or is this the same as exposing for sale?
Regarding the "reasonable cause to believe" issue, is there anything similar in the legislation covering electric scooter sales? It's difficult to see how bike shops selling these things could claim not to know that the great majority are used illegally, yet they seem to get away with a very brief disclaimer pinned to the showroom wall which is almost universally ignored.
Please find more ways to charge us for our every move master 🙄🤑
It is not the dealer's job to enforce the law! They are not sold as items to be used on the road; if the user takes them on the road., it's up to them.
@@edeledeledel5490
I'm not suggesting the dealer should enforce the law. As was clearly explained in the video, there are circumstances in which someone selling an item commits an offence if he has reason to believe the buyer intends to use it illegally. I was merely looking for some informed comment (with the emphasis on informed) as to whether that principle could apply to electric scooters.
@@ilb735
Nothing to with charging, just wondering what liability dealers might have when selling these toys to the sort of numpties who use them in complete disregard of the law.
@@andycomber2126 I think with scooters, there is no question whether they are legal; they aren't roadworthy, and are always sold as such. And you can always wheel them away without riding them, unlike a car, which is difficult to push any distance.
It's illegal to sell an unroadworthy vehicle that is being sold as being roadworthy, you mean.
It makes no sense to criminalise selling broken vehicles for scrap.
If it has an MOT and there are no obvious faults, then I would have thought that prosecuting a private seller might be difficult. He might have to repair it, but an MOT is only actually a sort of proof that the things tested are roadworthy at the time they are tested. There could be a hidden case of serious rust not detected by the MOT.
No he said exactly what he meant. It's illegal to sell an unroadworthy vehicle unless you have a reasonable belief it will not be driven on a road before being made roadworthy.
@@nekogod you just state in your description that the car is being sold in unroadworthy condition.
@@nekogod Quite frankly that sounds like crap. How the hell do you prove that someone has or has not a reasonable belief that it will not be driven on the road? Unless there is video evidence.
When I bought my van off Ebay, I traded in my old van for it and the trader wrote 'sold as spares' on the invoice. He watched me drive off in it and knew full well that I wanted a roadworthy van. A proper Arthur Daley, he is.
A trader tried to do the same with me and I cancelled the sale.
I don't sign anything; and he can't afterwards make changes to the contract you signed.
It's your fault to take the car away; because I wouldn't.
I bought my van 14 years ago.
The dealer said. It's not a great van but it's should be good for a year or two.
It now has 470,000 miles under its tyres.
He accidentally sold me a great van. I've had very few issues with it.
Vans can be sold without warranty legally, but it must be roadworthy at the point of sale
@@TringmotionCoUk what private seller offers a warranty?
@@S.Trades so the main comment and the other 2 replies all mentioned buying from dealers. In that context I think it is fair and reasonable to make a comment about traders. There's also a legal difference between a guarantee and a warranty. But, as you asked, Private sellers can be liable for the goods not being as described, so arguably they warrant their statements as accurate
It is not a crime to sell an un road worthy vehicle, providing it has been advertised as such, the buyer is again made aware of this fact when the vehicle is inspected by them, and it is thus stated in any receipt given during the sale, also they should be advised that they should arrange a form of transport for the vehicle so that it not driven on a public road.
I nearly choked on my coffee..
You said 'A reputable car dealer'. LMAO at that one.
They are all as bent as a £3 note.. Car dealers/traders and politicians have a lot in common
Reputable, just means they have a reputation to uphold, not that they aren't dodgy ...
If a car dealer sells you a dodgy car, it's probably because someone sold it to them.
@@championn3c574 people generally sell cars because they have developed a niggling fault that they consider too expensive for them to fix but they can't live with it.
@@championn3c574 Caveat emptor lol
Is "£3 note" a thing? I'm so old it has always been "bent as a 9 bob note". That is 9 shillings. I know in America there was a similar phrase for $3 dollar bills.
As youngsters friends and I used to often buy unroadworthy vehicles for the parts, in a few cases we did restore cars that were bought for parts. None of them involved deception or us being duped into buying them. As far as I understand it the MOT is NOT absolute proof of roadworthiness even at the time of certificate issue. For example they do not check the power of headlamps to verify they are consistent with the Construction and Use regulations. Sadly I have see many unroadworthy cars offered for sale in a manner that suggests the buyer would drive off in them.
Another Huge difference across the Pond. Over here we have a "Sold As Is" - the moment you sign the buyer agreement it is yours. Even if it suddenly burst into flames 10 seconds later. As-Is is As-Is here. Some states (Texas is one) have annual safety inspections. Many do not.
We see many pickup trucks going down the road with the top of the bed into the cab, which is a good sign that the frame is broken.
This isn't about whether you as a buyer would have a claim against the seller, it's about whether the seller has committed a criminal offence in selling the vehicle whether or not you might have a claim against the seller.
I've purchased 3 vehicles that were not roadworthy including a 1954 Morris Minor. All were for restoration and were trailered home. However, none needed an MOT and all were taxed, so I COULD have driven them home. However, I'm not daft enough to do that until they are at least safe. However, a friend has a 1915 deDion Button which is driven a few times a year? Is it roadworthy - not by modern standards. Is it safe? Probably not. Is it legal to drive/buy/sell? Yes, of course it is!
My Minor now looks like it's just come off the production line. It will never pass an MOT of course due to it's age. Indicators? stalks on the B pillars, no reversing lights, no seat belts, no fog lights and much more missing by modern standards :)
In France, if you sell a vehicle, it has to undergo a Contrôle Technique (MOT) if it is sold as roadworthy unless the current CT is less than 6 months old. If it is sold for scrap or to recover parts, this must be marked on the Carte Grise (Registration Document) which means it can no longer be registered as roadworthy. If you sell a car as roadworthy while knowing it has serious problems, this can come back to haunt you under the term "Vices Cachées" (Hidden Faults). If the car has serious problems that you know about and hide them from the buyer, you are liable and have to reimburse the buyer.
Back in the early 80s in Norfolk I bought a car from the mechanic I was replacing at a boat hire company. The MOT still had 3 months to run. When I took it in for the MOT, it failed as the body was literally falling apart and had been stuck together with filler and painted over. Fortunately I hadn't paid much for it but it was a disgrace that someone could sell it to him and he could then sell it on to someone else. If in doubt, take a small hammer and test the bodywork.
Better to use a magnet 🧲. I don’t think the seller would appreciate a potential buyer hammering the bodywork.
How do you buy a classic car or a restoration project?
@@JT_2024-c8j You have to have it passed by the Service Des Mines who check out the whole car and decide if it is roadworthy.
@@jonb4248 Not hammering, just tapping. In the UK even rusty bodywork fails the MOT as it can cause physical damage and illness, eg tetanus, if the car hits a pedestrian.
@@williamgeorgefraser so you can’t if it’s something that’s a basket case and not roadworthy? France is not the place to trip over a barn find Gullwing or Aston..
To many people wanting their noses blown for them in the UK. We really are the dimmest witted bunch these days. The MOT doesn’t guarantee the car is road worthy, just let that sink in.
Private.. no comebacks ,sold as seen. . Norm.. sold for the purpose of spares or repairs, as inspected on or above date on top of letter. even if it has say 10 months mot.. YOU must state this on the bill of sale.. even if you drove it to a neutral meeting place yes you committed an offence when getting it there, its up to the buyer after purchase if to tow,trailer, or drive it away... otherwise every civilian on the planet would have to be an advanced mechanic.... TRADE.. defo has 10 times more legislation. Don`t get fooled by the MOT status.. of a vehicle.. at that moment of testing.. seen all 4 tyres removed and replaced prior to an mot.and then changed back to original condition prior to sale.. however there's an MOT history now for all vehicles free online, so continuous notice of leakage or defective ball joints 2 yrs running on a test , then you can be sure the problem still persists.
This is a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect in society today. I swear we're getting worse at listening and comprehension.
You made it abundantly clear that this law is if you're selling the vehicle for use on the road. I don't know why it's so hard fo r dummies to understand.
Exactly - most complainers are watching the first 15 seconds and then writing their unchanged opinion!
Spot on, trouble is immediately people think they know their version of the law and don't listen to the initial headline. Car road use road worthy 😊
You can always tell the person who gives you the wink to hold on a few minutes while you wrap it up for them. You then slap a couple of very large stickers on the windscreen and rear saying - SOLD AS UNROADWORTHY - NOT TO BE DRIVEN. You know, those the stickers that are a nightmare to get off.
@@BlackBeltBarrister it would help if you didn't repeatedly state it without the "for us on the road" over and over and reply quoting without the "for use on the road" and they to add it post hoc and claim no one listens
@@BlackBeltBarrister That view is your Self-Opinion
Or it could be sold for racing, or to be used on private closed land. I see why people basically say it's not illegal. Lawyerly semantics really.
If its illegal to sell an unroadworthy vehicle then why can people (including Amazon) sell electric scooters?
Some possible reasons:
You can remove it from the seller's premises without using a road.
It might not fall within the definition of "vehicle" used on this legislation.
The definition of "unroadworthiness" in the legislation may only apply to something with a mechanical defect such as faulty brakes or bald tyres.
VERY funny. Why? Because I think back, prompted by this law I did not know existed - obvs the MOT side, yes, in general terms - to my past few vehicles. Let’s go in reverse order: Prius, presently repairing it because I discovered I have been entirely reliant on the regen braking ie ‘engine braking’ since before I even bought it ie during test drive also; Volvo V70 sold as Full Service History, found in fact it was a stolen stamp from Harratts Volvo Sheffield, handbrake never worked and it passed an MOT in that state and was looked at by the dealer who sold it and ‘supplied’ back to me as fine/roadworthy; VW Passat - this was having a major repair to the automatic transmission, and subsequently handed back to me, who phoned after a few miles, the guys came out, the wheels were loose, they’d only put the bolts in a few turns by hand; Peugeot 307 automatic, the engine revved uncontrollably for the first few minutes after starting; Citroen automatic of some sort, the brakes had corroded to the point the pads were not parallel with the disk ie salt acted with aluminium alloy to ‘wedge’ one side of the brake mounting, plus rear brakes seized anyway because of this. There are other cars I’ve bought that had troubles, but this list goes back to about the year 2004.
I only buy cars with relatively hard lives/high mileage due to financial issues ie better cars have too high a price, I cannot afford them. The price of the vehicle, HAD NO BEARING on whether it was a good or bad car, up to a point. IE I have bought cars for £1200, that were brilliant, and had less trouble than this car I have now for over eight grand. However, as automatics go, the Prius is actually the BEST, because it has a very robust/simple gearing setup ie constantly-meshed gears, no gearchanges, no complex hydraulics just solid-state electronics and a brain to handle the 2 electric motor-generators and the engine. It has nuances, but fixed-gear Teslas aside, there’s nothing stronger.
The VW Passat, the company repairing it were pretty angry when I rang to say it was making noise and something was weird with the steering. I was focused on the auto transmission repair, I had no idea they’d let loose a muppet on the stupid easy jobs, who was some weird kid they had employed, and he never tightened the wheel bolts (that’s their story anyway). Patently, massively unsafe. I drove almost home the 5 miles by the time I realised. So on the face of it, completely the repair had nothing to do with the issue they caused. they also took some parts from my car, and fitted them to another identical one they had in at the time. The rocker cover. I had one with a particular defect, and despite this other car having that same rocker cover, they denied it was mine but would ‘fit it to keep me happy’. Yes, top-league bullsh!t.
The Prius, the guy selling it was able to fleece me for several reasons but most of all because I had never driven one. It’s an unusual car. I knew it had regen braking, I’d driven a Tesla and a LEAF and knew what that is from my youth (my father built an electric car in 1979 that he had MOT’d and drove 7 miles to work in and back, two big truck batteries). I didn’t realise how much this could mask dodgy rear brakes. Now I have taken the brakes apart, I am pretty horrified. I took photographs. Cutting a long story short, the key part of most disk brakes, is that the BRAKE PADS MUST BE FREE AND LOOSE ENOUGH TO SLIDE BACKWARD AND FORWARD FROM CONTACT WITH THE DISK THEY SQUEEZE. I had to hammer the sliding pin out with a lump hammer and stone chisel - ain’t nothing free to move about that! I knew this brake had not freed up with use, because the surface of the disk still had terrible rust pitting on it. If usable, working, the surface goes smooth and shiny again as it wears.
Also, heat. Drive the car say ten miles. Put your hand on each of the brakes, or certainly the wheels (brakes themselves might be quite hot so beware). The front ones should be warm to hot, the back ones warm only. Depending on how hilly those ten miles were. If any of the brakes/wheels are pretty much ambient temperature, they are not working. If they are much hotter than the others, they are seized on. That’s the easiest test in the world. As I say, regen braking, masked this to the seller’s advantage, which they knew it would. So, the Prius was absolutely, even with a 4-month old MOT, not roadworthy, and indeed, could NEVER have passed that MOT. That was three years or more of salt-rust, not four months. The MOT station is dodgy, and the seller and their dealer brother, are fake b@st@rds. Now, I realise, I can report them for it, and the pics be used. The pair of them are in Leicester.
The Volvo is a funny one. I bought it with FSH. I know this because I specifically ONLY looked for cars with FSH and various other parameters. Unbeknown to me, this inevitably, results in me looking at a list of the best-priced vehicles with FSH for the money…and of course, they’re bent motors. Not crashed bent but not what they seem. I phoned Harratts in Sheffield who confirmed they had sold this Volvo estate car, and they had serviced it until…sometime prior to the last stamp of theirs. I asked the obvious question ‘How come it has a stamp of yours when it wasn’t serviced that last time, by you?’. They said ‘Interesting. A mechanic left, and after that we noticed a stamp was missing, now we know where it went.’ Obvs, the mechanic went into doing ‘homers’ and used Harratts Sheffield stamp to make it all look kosher. His customers for whatever reason, went along. Why they thought he’d do the full works for less money I don;t know. He didn’t.
More than half the cars then, in my lifetime of 60 years, have been sold to me or supplied to me by dealers or vendors, as roadworthy when they have not been. One of the best cars, a lovely Rover 827, with a great V6 engine, naturally was totalled or almost by a muppet who worked very hard to do it. He was parked on a double yellow. He had a dog in the car he’d just picked up, so a distraction. He had to not see me sat on a chevron area, indicator on waiting to move into traffic, and he had to CHANGE LANES to hit me. He did it all, and it was on video, and someone tried to tell me it was my fault - the guy who I decided, was the reason this muppet was turning right, to go to his company. They literally had a video TRAINED on the junction, it was so frequent for accidents to occur! I said ‘He wasn’t visiting you by any chance?’ They didn’t reply.
I honestly didn’t realise it was an offence, as you outlined. Great tutorial on the law, thanks. If I get the time, I will pursue matters, we’ll see. I should say, I sent a recorded delivery letter to the Volvo FSH dealer guy, he had a used car lot right in the middle of Birstall, West Yorkshire (about 200 yards from where the lovely lady MP Jo Cox was killed, I’m afraid). It detailed the issues, and pointed out it couldn’t have passed an MOT. I also detailed the meeting I had with him about the brakes, after I drove it away. Cutting it short, I appeared to look away as he said he’d try the handbrake and see what he thought…I snapped my head back to look at him, saw him inside the car, left elbow leaning hard on the centre armrest, right hand helping to leverage the handbrake lever as hard as he could. I mean, my look just said FFS don’t embarrass yourself mate. He saw me see him do this, and still tried to blag it bald-faced lying little sh!t that he is.
My letter came back, but opened, so he read it and somehow got it back to me. He wouldn’t have liked it much. About 3 months later, the dealership was gone, and the car lot has been empty to this day. My guess, is first he doesn’t need the money. Second, he’s set up elsewhere. 3rd, he’s sitting on it until he can get some planning or something to put houses there, or a grant for housing, or some such. Empty, I don’t think it attracts business rates. It cannot, or it wouldn’t be. Please remember, when you buy a used car, there are certain rules to abide by:
1 - Japan imports ALL have the speedo replaced. This is a red flag for a UK car, and no less so a Japanese one, just because there’s a legit reason, doesn’t mean they didn’t shave off miles because of it. I mean, why wouldn’t they? 2 - there’s a massive filtering of vehicles, before they get to a used car lot. That’s why almost all those cars, are garbage. One, the good ones from main dealers, are creamed off, which is where a lot of these cars come from. Two, at auction, the good ones are creamed off again, for friends & family, just like from the main marque dealers. Three - a final filtering at the point of the used car lot. Even here, where it’s 80% garbage, there are some half-decent ones left. Those, are gone too, to friends as a favour etc. Somebody somewhere always wants a car. Thus, there is a tri-stage filtering before the cars hit the used car lot like the Cypriot guy’s con-shop in Birstall. I have been to used car lots since, and my conclusion is, between so-called ‘private sellers’ who are actually unofficial agents for a dealer friend or family member, or who are doing it as a sideline, and also the normal rough trading that goes on, this is worse than ever. Buying a car now, it’s like houses, 80% plus, are over-priced garbage.
If you are not swiping away 8 to 9 out of ten houses, or cars you see, you don’t know enough to be buying one. Just my view. Thanks again for this info, very useful, take care all.
Yes it is an offence and when I worked at trading standards we prosecuted people for doing so, one of which had defective brakes, and a petrol leak so bad the car could have caught fire.
NO, it is NOT an Offence, as you can sell anything for only their spare-parts and then dispose of what is left and unusable.
I bought a vehicle that was two vehicles and it passed its MOT. I was diddled. It was a private seller
But you are referring to very obvious and very serious, dangerous faults. Many mot failures, are not obvious.
@@beaulieuc8910 he TOLD you he was a private seller!
@@S.Trades Then where do you go to get your Road Vehicle PASSED as being Roadworthy for something that cannot be detected when undergoing an MOT?
Last week I sold a motorcycle that was not roadworthy, it was sold "for restoration", and that is perfectly lawful.
Local garage was fined for selling a car that was unroad worthy with MOT by trading standards and the police via the courts recently . The key word here is road you can sell any motor vehicle in any condition if it's taking away on a trailer. Glad you explained the misconceptions that a MOT certificate covers the condition of a vehicle for the whole year
There's a whole list of pre-conditions for dealers to sell unroadworthy vehicles including no test drive (since it would need to be done on the road), the paperwork needs to clearly state that the vehicle is not for use on the road in its current condition and must be collected on a trailer. The customer would need to sign a declaration of their awareness of the vehicles condition and understanding of the law to protect the seller.
If I sold a vehicle for 'spares or repair' I would make the purchaser sign a note stating that the vehicle was not in a condition to be legally driven on the road.
People sell none roadworthy cars for parts every day...
Any Sale for Parts Goods goes the same for just about any other products that you can own with the exception of dangerous materials which are nothing to do with being non-roadworthy all of which should be pre-notified.
It is not what you Sell that matters, for it is what anyone else wants to buy and then use perhaps the stripped-down Part's for of which is their choice to do so before disposing properly of any left overs.
This law is nuts. Either we need to be able to predict the future, or make the buyer take a lie detector test. And then we still have to go to court and prove that we are actually innocent.
Creates work for barristers though, so not all bad.
Not really, you just have to have a reasonable belief, you don't have to know for certain. If someone comes to buy a car and you say oh it's not road worthy and they say ah no worries I'll bring a trailer to transport it and then I'll repair it before I drive it, and they do actually bring a trailer etc then even if they later drove the car on the road in an unroadworthy condition you'd almost certainly be fine as you definitely had cause to believe it would not be driven. It's just a bit of common sense, and if in doubt don't sell.
It's to help prevent people selling unroadworthy cars on to unsuspecting buyers. As a seller, get an up to date MoT. As a buyer, check all the obvious things and ask for an up to date MoT. If ithe sale looks too good to be true, that's usually because it is.
I've been MOT ing since 1990, they used to have it printed on the old MOT certificates when they were pre printed out forms, now they are just printed on copier paper it doesn't say. I used to point it out to customers when they would say "It's OK for 12 months now". I used to say "It's better than new now, it should last for years" Then point out the back of the certificate.
This also applies to both mechanical workshops and bodyshops who repair vehicles and allow an unroadworthy vehicle back on the road. How would you report a business for allowing an unsafe vehicle back on the road? when you contact the police, they have no interest at all.
No it isn't. Or scrap yards would get and be in shit daily also put sold as seen on receipt. simple as that
Did you not even watch the video? Sheesh - this is why people are regularly prosecuted and fined for exactly this.
So as long as you present during the sale that there are issues that make the vehicle unroadworthy then its ok, it's more about selling a vehicle that isn't roadworthy without telling the buyer, or knowing they will drive it and allowing it.
I sold a rusty vw camper van for £800 , around the value of the westfallia extendable roof and interior furnishings 2nd hand value , the advert stated it was for spares or repairs , the buyer signed a sales receipt saying he understood that one in MOT worthy condition was £7500 and this is a restoration project for £800.
he then paid and went off with the keys and v5 , saying a man with big trailer would move it off my land .
BUT...
2 days later he returned , put false number plates on it , drove off and got all the way to Ardrossan ferry terminal heading fore Republic of Ireland where motorhomes need no mot . Or did then 25yrs ago.
On the keyside he was pulled by the police and his scheme was found out .
Vehicle confiscated , his big sister, who lived in the same city as me , then started "legal procedings" to try and get some or all his money back.
I told them very politely to get stuffed .
Some people are just idiots.
7:25 If you saw them drive it away, but you had already sold it believing that they would not drive it on the road, the doubt would have arising after the transaction had been completed. I do not see how the defence would not be acceptable in this case.
i always thought the key phrase in the "law" was "knowingly". ie its illegal to sell it knowingly; if you are aware of it being unroadworthy. always good to listen to your full explanations though
Isn't there a law thing about ignorance being no excuse?
Given that you put the word 'law' into speech quotes in that way, I will take anything you say with an ocean's worth of salt.
The key word is 'intent'. Regarding 'knowingly' that falls under the realm of negligence, perhaps it was something that should have been known.
@@margaretnicol3423 This applies to everyone except the police.
Depends on if it's what's known as strict liability. And probably on a law by law basis for things like this
I sold a motorcycle privately without MOT in the early eighties, and i made the buyer sign a note i wrote out saying....Sold as seen tried and tested....The motorcycle was in good condition but did have an engine issue.
Hang on. If you sell it to them for spares and repair, and then you see them drive away in it, how can you be guilty of an offence if, prior to the transaction, you did not know, or suspect that they were going to drive away in it.
Also worth noting that an MOT is a general test of a vehicles roadworthiness and is not absolute in it's testing. Your vehicle could have many faults causing it to be no longer roadworthy, and it would not be noticed on an MOT test. One example would be a faulty speedometer. During an MOT the visibility of the speedo (no cracks in display, well lit and no visible damage to speedo) is checked, but the function isn't checked. If your speedo is inaccurate then it would likely pass an MOT, yet still be unroadworthy at the exact time the MOT certificate was issued. Many vehicles on our roads have no MOT certificate at all, but are still permitted to drive on the roads if they are roadworthy.
If a seller had no reasonable chance of knowing a car was unroadworthy can they still be prosecuted? Way back in the late 1980s a used vehicle was purchased privately, a few months later part of the front the suspension collapsed, luckily a few seconds before the steering pulled to one side so we pulled over, then the car wheel literally collapsed onto it's side as a wishbone snapped which could have caused a serious accident if the car was still moving. We was told that a hairline fracture was likely spreading inside the wishbone after a previous accident that would have been undetectable at the time of repair, in fact the car passed an MOT, but the car was still sold unroadworthy and dangerous.
Has copart uk ever been prosected in uk for selling a unroad worthy vechile ?? Vechiles under 3 years old do not require a mot???
I bought (and later sold for scrap) an unroadworthy van to be used as a literal shed on private property; not from Copart but from a random dealer. When I bought it, it came with paperwork I had to sign stating it was sold as unroadworthy and had to SORN it immediately, can't use it on the road blah blah. That all seems to fall neatly under 6A(a) at 09:00 and I can only imagine is a standard part of all their sales. As for 6A(b), Having looked at Copart's website, the only thing I can see on there is the category; I'm no lawyer, and I imagine they have run their whole business model through plenty, but I'd have expected a big banner explicitly stating its unroadworthiness to make absolutely sure they're covered. For the CPS to knowingly attempt a prosecution against a salvage company that has most likely covered themselves with those exemptions would be a waste of resources, and as I can't find anything for crown vs copart uk, very likely not.
I would argue that watching them drive away in it does not change anything.
If you reasonably believe that they will not drive it, they hand over the cash, you hand over the keys and both sign a contract / bill of sale which includes the condition that it is not to be driven in the road.
The sale / supply of the vehicle is not complete, you are waiting for them to call a tow truck or arrange a trailer, but they get in and drive off before you can stop them.
I would argue, that they drove it AFTER the sale / supply of the vehicle and before that moment you reasonably understood that they wouldn't do that.
That happened to me when I sold a car with no current MOT. There was nothing I could do to stop him driving it away.
I have had two 2nd hand car selling enterprises in my time, one on the streets of south London the other a pretty extensive one in Bournemouth and what had people coming back time and again for family and friends was I always ensured safety issues like brakes, tyres, suspension were good at point of sale, never dropped that bar on any motor and whilst the paint might be rough and not in pristine condition people would buy my cars knowing I always maintained that minimum and this was before it became law. It just made good sense, selling deathtraps that lose control and wipe out a bus queue is not a good thing in anyones book and there were merchants before and since who simply polished a brown thing and charged top dollar for it too. Very very few comebacks too and the ones I remember were easily remedied and not safety stuff. One charming endorsement was couple years ago visiting Bournemouth I bumped into a prior customer who told me he still had the car he bought, never let him down, sailed through the mot's, good strong engine and box still so not bad for 20 years of daily driving.
Using this logic, would it not then become illegal to sell anything and everything, unless you can prove otherwise?
For example:
It is illegal to sell a scarf, unless it is a scarf, can serve its purpose as a scarf andbwill not be used to do any of the following:
A) Murder someone
B) steal
C) Hide one's identity during a crime
D) Is used as a fire started for arson
E) Used for sabotage resulting in harm, death or damage
Ect)...
Very timely and useful.
Had MOT & service last wed drive car straight home did not use it but noticed on friday frobt replaced tyre flat as pancake. Checked pressure was at zero inflated it. Left front tyre was at 200 rear tyres at 175. Phoned garage told them tyre was flat again was told to inflate it and drive it to garage carefully!!!
Decided to call out AA whi confirmed massive leak from bead trim and changed to spare wheel as car not safe to drive.
I have a continuous service & MOT history with the service centre sunce buying car from them.
I also explained that on the way home after a stop light my car refused to move and slippery surface warning light came on. I put car back into park then tried again snd accelerated slightly and it started to move.
I requested new tyre be fitted. Keys brought back and I asked if new tyre had been put on was told no it was checked and deemed to be ok to refit. said i was not happy but felt railroaded into accepthng this despite arguing and even though it was confirmed that my tyre could not be used as new to put onto another car.
I wrote complaint by email and new tyre was fitted next day.
How does law apply in this scenario?
Blackbeltbarrister questions ❓ noise cameras .... some places have noise cameras put up by local authorities, if my car / motorcycle passes an MOT of which the mot'er will assess if the exhust is to loud. As long as you dont change it how can a noise camera pick up your vehicle and issue you a penalty ticket. Especially as to get a correct reading it is supposed to be six feet from noise source and in the open there are other contributing noise factors 😊
"it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger if injury to any person" - this describes all of the vehicles on the road today. The single most dangerous device operated by anyone presenting a genuine danger of injury to any person (all other road users) - proven hundreds of times per day as people are involved in road traffic accidents.
Interesting side note regarding low-loaders... my BMW (don't judge, not my choice) lost power on dual carriage way and I got it to hard shoulder, police turned up within 10 minutes, the fuel gauge saying it was quarter full, but actually empty which they checked and kindly gave me a lift to nearest garage to get fuel (didn't work) ... I didn't have rescue service and had phoned to get a low-loader and was bitching to the police officers about the cost. They looked at each other and said it was a good price, actually £30 cheaper than police vehicles were charged! Oops! Hopefully this corruption was addressed, probably not 😢
😂 Dodgy dealers, ineffective police and level of proof with hollowed out citizens advice. Unless the vehicle kills someone-more chance of winning lottery.
Castles in the sand
My memory was that it was an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle (or at least one which it is clear the seller must have known was unroadworthy).. even if the buyer knows it.
What was not unlawful - as I remember - was to sell a vehicle for spares so long as you insist it is taken away on a trailer. (or possibly on tow).
So based on the "It is in such a condition that it's use on a road would involve a danger or injury to any person" would this mean that if a buyer brought a car that is rear wheel drive and they'd never driven a rear wheel car before, and they had an accident in it due to their unfamiliarity with rear wheel drive cars or driving the car in snow/ice, would the seller be liable as they'd sold it to someone who can't drive a rear wheel drive car thus putting themselves and others in danger or at risk of injury?
I wouldn't have thought so otherwise you could apply that to so many things, like first time a person buys a performance car etc it would be a nightmare. Although I'm not sure that's a good example I found my first rear wheel car didn't drive all that differently except that the steering was lighter when turning. Was a bit of a double whammy as well cause I went from a citroen c4 to a mercedes amg c class. It might apply for very new drivers, like I'd be wary of selling something like that to a 17 year old. But to anyone with a couple years driving experience it should be fine.
Retired now, I used, decades ago, to dabble in classic cars (mainly Minis.)
I both sold and bought just a few vehicles totally unfit to be used on the road. Always with a view to restoration or converson to a standard that WAS road legal. I even drove one for years - a beautiful job of restoration if I do say so myself.
But of course NEVER driven in either direction if non-road-legal - that was a job for suitable transport carriers. In which case, given plain declarations of non-roadworthiness, I find it impossible to understand, in retrospect, what laws were possibly broken.
That said, I was often aware of a possibility that some brain-dead buyer (and - god - there were SO many!) might just put that car straight onto the road. But - having given what I regarded as good-faith, written warnings about both the car and the law, I didn't see I had any further responsibility.
I know of a dealer that this happened to even though he clearly advised that it was sold as unroadworthy & it was transported in a different vehicle away from his dealership. The only mistake he made was the give the new owner the new owners part of the v5c it appears the dealer should of posted it not handed it over this was the court's decision.the dealer had to bring the vehicle up to a road legal condition.
The answer lies in whether or not any un-roadworthy vehicles are used for Public road transportation without having a valid MOT Certificate, or otherwise anyone knowingly driving any such Road Vehicles that you possitively are aware of beforehand to be in an un-roadworthy state of condition while still having a valid MOT Certificate.
So, is it an Offence to sell a vehicle that is not roadworthy. The Answer is NO it is not an Offence to SELL any such a vehicle however it is an Offence to knowingly drive such a vehicle upon any Public Roads, whereas you can in theory still dive such a vehicle upon any Private Roads or Land at your own risk.
Many people sell un-roadworthy vehicles to someone else for spare parts or to be repaired and made roadworthy once again. These vehicles should however be moved from one location to another upon Public Roads in their un-roadworthy condition by a Licenced Transporter of Road Vehicles either upon a Low-Loader or by being Towed and not under their own power to their new destination.
The only time many road vehicles are prevented from being re-sold as spare-parts is when they fall fully under the ownership of any Insurance Company whom have Written-Off any such vehicles from being returned for road use, however it is the case that when these vechicles are broken down some of the still reusable parts are then resold again if they are deemed undamaged and fit for re-sale and re-use. Vehicle Breaker Yard's do keep part's mainly for older Road Vehicles whereby spare replacement parts are hard to come by.
In the late 1960's early 1970's I had heard of a guy trying to sell his mother-in-law a car with no brakes!
As Dan has said, thousands of garages sell unroadworthy vehicles everyday.
There is a car dealer close to where i live, they don't have a workshop and all
they do is buy the cars from the local auction, wash them and put them on sale
complete with any faults that were there when they bought them.
Want a new MOT with no advisories, no problem! is the car capable of passing
that MOT probably not, i think you get the picture.
If you are going to part with thousands in hard earned cash for a second hand car then its well worth the fees to get an independent vehicle check prior to purchase from the AA or RAC etc. If the dealer is reluctant walk away a good dealer will encourage you to get one since it also covers them.
You need a good independant vehicle engineer to fully examine the car you intend to buy.
The AA / RAC only look for obvious faults and leave it to you to find bodywork issues.
Some garages are asscociated with the AA / RAC so they don't look to hard.@@erasmusvenport8830
Years ago I had a mate that sold his old Ford Anglia one morning for an exchange value of £70 to a garage in part-exchange for a newer car. That afternoon he was driving past the garage and saw it on the forecourt, having been cleaned, for sale for £270. Pity about the extensive bodywork rust underneath; he must have been a fecking quick welder.
I bought three cars private sales last December an Alfa romeo mito, Vauxhall insignia and Astra. Paid £1500 for each car, they were all knackered, three broken cars sold as good reliable cars by dishonest people no comebacks sold as seen 🤦♂️ Doh!
Perhaps it's me, Dan, but I've always understood that vehicles (either brand new or pre-owned) must be in a roadworthy condition at point of sale - be that privately, or from a recognised dealership. In years gone by, I have purchased cars that are unroadworthy, but I always picked them up using a trailer, & once home, declared Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), & then sought to make good - using the aforementioned tralier to transport said vehicle to an MOT station for examination; certainly, there's an added fiscal outlay to oneself, but these cowboys who profess roadworthiness (& are clearly not), deserve an exacting punishment. Over the years, I've bought & sold several cars - all of which have met the required standard. It would be unconsionable to sell on a vehicle that say, seriously injures or kills the driver or occupants - the greed & chicanery of such individuals, whilst unsurprising, irritates beyond all reasonable measure. I am (also) glad you mentioned the 'validity' of an MOT Certificate - many owners are unaware of what that constitues in law - excellent !
Isn't that the point though? It's not an offense if you're buying a vehicle not roadworthy under that explicit understanding, and picking it up with a trailer or other transport. Otherwise it's common sense that it's illegal to sell a vehicle under the pretense of it being roadworthy when it isn't.
I didn't think you had to use a trailer to go to an MOT test, you can drive there and back even your car fails as long as it is not too dangerous to drive..
@@edeledeledel5490 No, you don't, but a trailer covers all eventualities - & I'd never personally drive any vehicle that was deemed unroadworthy; each to their own.
@@lucid6891 Exactly so.
@@andrewtongue7084 Can't be arsed.
I suspect this is where the UK differs from Ireland. In Ireland a private individual selling a second hand vehicle with a valid NCT Test only has to include the words bought as seen to place the onus or responsibility on the person purchasing it. There would be issues which would arise in any claim by the purchaser, age and value of the vehicle, the buyer beware principle. If a person has a valid and current NCT then it is reasonable for them to conclude the vehicle is road worthy, so long as they have not altered it since the test was done. There is a higher standard placed on garages / dealers, they are required to provide a warranty, again the age of the vehicle will affect the length of the warranty
It ISN'T an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle otherwise scrapyards would be out of business as would most dealerships 2nd hand car trade. It IS an offence to claim the vehicle is roadworthy when it isn't.
For use on public land, and most insurance policies, the MOT is used for proof of roadworthiness however for use on private land there are no real standards.
The issue is if the person who PURCHASES the vehicle has been irrefutably informed of the status of the vehicle or not.
Off topic slightly, can you do something on fly tipping? Context : I regularly visit fly tipping sites and take things that have been tipped. I never fly tip myself. I've been wondering if taking things is illegal. Like am I stealing from the council? "Stealing by finding"?
Long time ago...we sold a car with n/s front disc missing. A week later the plod were at my door asking about the car, said we sold it privately at Bawtry auctions. They said it had been involved in a ram raid. I still wonder if the guy hit the anchors and it swerved through a shop window!
I and a great many other people have bought and sold vehicles that were not roadworthy with the intent to make them roadworthy before use. The whole of the classic car market has this as an overriding feature of its dealings. If I bought a vehicle to use immediately on the road I endeavour to ensure that it has a new MOT, regardless when the last one ran out to the point where I would pay the MOT fee on top of the price of the vehicle. I doubt that most private sellers of cars could identify that their vehicles were unroadworthy, you only have to look at the state of some vehicles sent in for MOT to confirm that. You also have to ask the question as to what is the situation with cars sold at auction, where all are sold as roadworthy unless there is a specific reason why they aren't. With the volume of auction sales it is highly likely that unrecognised unroadworthy vehicles are frequently sold as fit for road use, the auction houses do not carry out extensive inspections on the 1000s of vehicles that pass through every week.
To my knowledge the police are reluctant to prosecute individuals for selling an unroadworthy vehicle.
3:50 What if an aftermarket accessory has been fitted (e.g. Jaguar bonnet mascot, bull bar, light bars) to a vehicle which would, or could "involve risk of injury to any person" - I'm thinking pedestrians in particular. Would this be illegal?
Simply depends on whether the modification makes the car "unroadworthy" - whatever that means..
All vehicles (especially bicyles and motability scooters!) ""involve risk of injury to any person".
Auctions routinely sell barn find vehicles that are not roadworthy.
If they clearly advertise them as such then there shouldn't be a problem.
There's a million ads on Ebay for cars that say "Spares or repairs", I dunno how someone who claims to know about car sales can never have seen them....
Good video. Genuine question - if you trade in an unroadworthy car for part exchange, and make no mention of it's condition, are you selling/supplying it to the car seller, thereby making it an offence? There has got to be plenty of those transactions happening!
Yes... but it go to court, probably not.
Im going to guess that you can sell anything "as it is", providing it's not prohibited by law and you're clear and honest about what is on offer.
I suppose a heap of scrap is no longer considered a vehicle.
I would draw the line at narcotics.
@@trickygoose2 I believe they are *prohibited by law* unless you're a chemist.
Can of worms ?? Firstly does this cover bycycles in UK ? Ok well I'm in Ireland and we have similar shops 99% of these shops will sell you a bike which is most certainly a road vehicle with not a hint of a light to be seen ,no light on a bike is illegal here I'm sure it's same there , are all these shops some of which are toy shops selling illegal bycycles?
Good point
If you are a private seller, you don't usually know if your car has a problem or indeed that problem makes it unroadworthy
Interesting. I was sold my vehicle was two vehicles but it passed its MOT.
If I buy a cheap car, I always scrap it when I am done with it. My conscience is clear. Otherwise I advertise it with brutal honesty, saves on tyre kickers.
A farm I used to work on used to buy scrap vehicles cheap, strip them down to make one working vehicle. So while the initial vehicles bought were not road worthy, what they had at the end was one road worthy vehicle and one pile of scrap and parts
When my mate wanted his first car about 1968, his dad bought two old ex-post office Morris Minor 5 cwt vans for £5 each at auction, one with a rotten chassis and one with a knackered engine, and built a serviceable van out of them. My mate painted it with bright blue Magicote one-coat paint with a brush, and used it for about 3 years. He gave it to his younger sister, who used it for 2 or 3 years. Those old post-office vans were built like brick sh!thouses. One day my brother and another mate saw it being driven and thought the suspension was very low, so they flashed her. She stopped, got out and ran over to them to ask if they would give a couple of people a lift, which they agreed to. Turns out it was low on the suspension because there was a total of 17 people in it, including the driver... probably a load of over a ton rather than 5 cwt. Those were the days...
You can sell a vehicle stating it has no MOT or as Spares or Repairs.Its entirely up to the buyer to decide whether to drive it away or recover it surely? Even with an MOT technically that only proves that a vehicle was deemed roadworthy on the day it was tested.
No because if they turned up to take the car without a means of transporting it, and you could see they were intending to drive it away, you're still liable.
@@lordcustard-smythe-smith9153 I cant see after the sale and exchange of cash and V5 how it be the responsibilty of the vendor at that point.Surely by law he/she no longer owns that vehicle and the liabilty stands with the new keeper as to what to do from that point.
The issue is in the wording of the law under the "supply" of a vehicle as unroadworthy, you are liable since you would be aware
spare or repairs is way too broad, as like the car I bought yes seller did list it as drivable, apart from abs sensor needed replacing. nothing to say major defects on the passenger side like the coil/suspension had snapped in 3 pieces on both front corners, nothing to say that most of the things holding the front passenger side wheel on were unsafe, and could cause a serious accident if the car is driven. as far as I was aware was photos on uneven ground to get the car to sit level, and the listing saying the car is drivable, the fact it had an MOT 2 months prior to purchase with 0 advisories, and 0 defects. which can happen with a back hander. tyres and stuff didn't matter too much as always replace them when buying a used car. but to have a shopping list of parts from my garage as long as your arm for a car that you just bought when only 1 item listed and an mot inspection. is pushing it to the extreme when it exceeds the cars value by 2-3 times.
@@michaelthomas3646 You have recourse under the consumer rights act for up to six months after the sale (even more rights in the first month).
The Gov and politricktians aren't worthy why aren't they in jails?
Some practical advice: if you’re selling a car that you wouldn’t drive yourself, don’t sell it to anyone who doesn’t turn up with a tow truck.
Why on earth would it be an offence to sell a vehicle that is unroadworthy? You'd not be able to buy parts cars if that were the case. The laws in the UK are absolutely backwards. Everything is illegal and you have to rely on defences. We need to get this changed.
Personally if I was to sell a car for spare parts, I would just take the tyres off then it would have to go on a trailer and not driven. That solves that problem 😊
Ive bought and sold loads of cars that are not roadworthty. Its completely legal. Whats illegal is selling a unroadworthy as a roadworthy one.
I have an uncle who died before I was born who died due to an unroadworthy car (two cars merged together) he was 19 years old. The fact some people would think this is ok blows my mind…
No one thinks a cut and shut is ok . I know someone who put his own cut and shut together then had an accident a year later losing his foot . Sadly the only thing you can do is be vigilant in the way you inspect vehicles
Not a criminal offense (offence) here in the US. The phrase "sold as is" applies, however clearly misrepresenting a vehicle's condition or masking/hiding a known major problem could be held as a civil liability (could get sued privately). Ultimately it's up to the seller to act in good faith (not lie or mask problems) and up to the buyer to ensure road-worthiness, often via mechanic pre-sale inspection.
I watch the 'just rolled in' youtube channel, the condition some of the vehicles people drive on the roads over there is bloody scary.
My daughter bought a car from a dealership that turned out to not be roadworthy. She had real trouble rejecting the car and getting her money back (Initial deposit and first few finance payments). Dealership and trading company were an absolute nightmare to deal with. In the end the finance company got involved and she got some money back. Should we persue this? As in report, take to small claims? Both the dealership and the trading company have terrible reviews and have both sold unfit cars (knowingly) for a long time. This particular one had an obviously false MOT, tyres were so bald the AA inspector was shocked.
I have bought and sold many motorcycles that are not for the road. They are easy to tell. No indicators and number plates. These have been what is called dirt bikes. Purley for use off road on dirt tracks.
Some of them ride on the road, too.
spares or repair is still too broad when selling a car unless it is listed with defects that would fail an MOT for, like bought a car, and the garage came back with defects as long as my arm for all the components to keep the passenger wheel from flying off, as well as wishbone on the drivers side the bushings had perished, both front coil springs had snapped in 2 or more places, and the car was positioned on an uneven surface to make the car look like it was sitting level, and the car classed as drivable even though the abs sensor was the only thing listed as needing replacing. no mot failures, and no mot advisories 2 months prior, yet the coils were 95% rusted through, so think people use spares or repairs too broadly as a "get out of jail free card". so I can see why people would want to list a car as spares or repairs and then not mention a single thing about the defects that would fail an MOT. when it should be for minor things like interior and not MOT tested items, unless listed in the vehicles description, like it should be, and not listed as driveable implying that it is safe to drive on the public roads, or safe enough to go putting your life in even more danger like banger racing on a track.
If you sell it for spares or repair only, as it is unroadworthy, then I can't see how the seller is responsible in any way for its condition, unless you ask about something and are told lies. It is the buyer's responsibility to check the vehicle, as "Spares and Repair only" implies major faults that are likely to be MOT fails.
Another one I've heard is that you're allowed to sell x number of vehicles a year as a private seller and is used as a way of earing a bit of cash on the side while avoiding the sale of goods act. I'm pretty sure it's untrue and that the HMRC doesn't care how many vehicles you've sold as you are liable for tax on income above your annual allowances.
If you sell a car print off a bill of sale and both of you sign it. Email your car insurance to cancel policy before you let them drive off. Make sure Bill of sale has that clearly noted they must secure their own insurance before driving.
And tax it - tax is no longer transferrable. It gives lots and lots of money to the DVLA with the tax for unused parts of the month of each car transferred. For each car transferred privately, the DVLA makes a month of the tax, as profit, and even if it is transferred to a dealer, they will lose whatever portion of the last month is unused.
@@edeledeledel5490 That burns my bacon.
@@lrdisco2005 P!sses me off too. But I only buy a car every 5 or 6 years. So I won't bother contacting my MP; they are are all useless anyway.
A professional car sales company sold me a car with 4 illegally bald tyres on it. When I told them, they said they didn’t have to. Brothers car sales ltd, London.
it depends if it is being sold as not road worthy and not to be used on the road.
there is that caveat "that is going to be used on the road"
So what about people selling e-scooters and e-bikes >250W and modifications to exceed 15.5 mph.. Surely they are not roadworthy? They pretend they are for off road use/ private land only.
And now, having listened completely the definition of roadworthy is dangerous- steering, tyres, brakes and likely to cause injury. The likelihood of being unreliable- boiling coolant/ headgasket/ main bearings on way out, failing clutch, failed ABS pump (where brakes still work). failed Aircon do not constitute roadworthy. Interesting. Thanks.
You can sell a project car or non runner. You can't imply it is fully functional. Minorca lane Romanian gypsy car sellers bugle need to learn this.
do auctions selling to both trade and to the public have some exemption to this?
they claim to be exempt, are simply arranging the sale between the seller and the buyer, and keep the saller anonymous.
bought a car from a local auction a few years back which had failed an MOT for a long list of problems then passed the same day, then had failed again 3 months later with the same long list of problems. i bought it in this condition with 9 months of MOT believing it was roadworthy (or was declaired at MOT testing as fully roadworthy only 3 months previously).
You can sell anything if done so properly. Selling an unroadworthy vehicle is not an offence if you don't mislead. EG: _I have a car which has 4 bald tyres - but it's otherwise okay._ - .... This would be okay - however, if you then get the tyres sorted and use the thing only to discover the brakes are bad AND I almost certainly knew about it but didn't divulge then the law kicks in
I don't even have to watch but selling second hand stuff is always buyer beware unless the seller states that it is in good order and warranted. There is nothing wrong with selling "unroadworthy cars" because how would the whole scrap dealer recycling mechanism work? How would anyone get a "barn find" of a classic car and restore it?
Just don't drive it on the road without insurance. You can drive it without tax and MOT to a garage in order to get it sorted for the MOT and then the tax. However if it is unroadworthy then it can be pulled there and then. So trailer it.
Having sold a lot of motors as spares or repairs I always state the vehicle needs to be trailered away . That totally covers you for idiots who would try it on with you .
How about a vehicle from say 1930 that predates construction & use regulations, or a vehicle for track use, maybe on slick tyres, maybe on competition tyres that are clearly marked ‘not for road use’, maybe one with no lights, maybe even a sale of a chassis plate and a V5 where no other part of a vehicle actually exists.
If only this was applied. loads of vehicles sold unsafe and not declared to seller
In other words it is an offence to sell a non-roadworthy car if there is reasonable grounds to believe it is going to be used on the road without being fixed first. It's also clearly illegal to sell a non-roadworthy car as if it is roadworthy, but that's hardly a surprise.
So, in essence selling a non-roadworthy car is not necessarily an offence (or is there some peculiar legal nicety is that something is still an offence if there is a defence and a conviction can't be obtained).
So a blanket statement that is an offence to sell a non-roadworthy car is just as wrong as to say it is not an offence to sell a non-roadworthy car. It's necessary to know all the relevant particulars with regard to the sale and deal with those as well.
0:28 and 1:04 aren't the same claim. Which one are you refuting?
It's treated seriously as it is considered a deception. It seems to be the area of traffic law with some of the heaviest punishment.