You know, this is much deeper than you think. These clips were made that bad completely intentional. Tha PAIN you feel watching it makes you to understand Illidan's pain much better
I think I'm gonna need a lot of alcohol to gorget about it. This cinematic is the most painful thing to watch. Even watching somebody getting punched in the balls isn't that painful
Somehow the original blocky models looks more animated and life-like than the new HD models. Exquisite camera works of the original also plays a big part.
Because the originals took themselves seriously. If you try to replicate what it would be like fighting with those weapons (warglaives vs two-handed sword) you would achieve a result more similar to the original than the reforged. The audio is also better, adds more dramatic impact to each blow.
@@ismaelsantos5378 old models were designed by actual professionals with years of experience in a top studio. New ones were made by diversity hires who probably came straight from college and played the game in their childhood. Just my guess.
the new HD models were made by some indie lazy-ass live2D riggers artist that relies only on drawing a single panel characters and rig it instead of making a full motion made of different layers.
@Natgal that's cool and all but 1: I play Starcraft 2 so I wouldn't know the problems with it other than this cut scene and some other stuff. 2: I USED to play the original Warcraft 3 quite a bit back but they fucked up on releasing it this early. 3: That is cool that you can play Naga in multiplayer however, you could already do this with maps. Edit: added "quite a bit back" after warcraft 3
Thing is it is not even blizzard work. War3 reforged was outsourced to malaysian studio that did work on sc remastered. They didnt even bother to work on their flagship franchise.
BADBOY OFFICIAL dude, last year Activision axed over 200 employees from various departments, and also made Blizzard rush the game out. You ”shut up please”
The classic version while look shit, at least it has smooth movement between arthas vs illidan. Reforged version look so awkward and stiff it not even funny.
I mean, he's supposed to look withered and all from being undead. But yeah, the fast pace and that split second assault when Illidan tries to flee back into the air are just ruined here.
He looks pretty much like on the original cover of the game... I mean I understand the rage, but just don't sit on the sheep wagon and nitpick bullshits. Tho the cinematics is still light years from Blizzard quality and the facial expressions kinda suck: codeshop.hu/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/74d4146f-1c68-4cd9-a0fe-f3dfa0cf4c06.jpg.jpg
Illidan: The Frozen Throne is yours, human. Let me step aside. I'll leave this world, and never return. If I do, you'll be waiting. Arthas: You have sworn to destroy it, Illidan. It must be done! Illidan: Never.
Bro, there was a text with the same “reversed” style as you wrote here , but the dialogue between Jaina and Arthas before the stratholm , could you find it and share here ?
@@xLetalis I mean.... Blizzard should probably understand how to use it.... They made Heroes of the Storm, and Illidan works great there. Here he looks like he will stab himself at any moment now.
@@MrWillypanda88 Different team I believe. The Reforged team try to make it like modern WOW trailer and Heroes but I think they are not the one who made those.That is why the model look great when standing still but weird in motions.
"Hey were a company thats known for making astonishing cinematics. And we are getting a chance to remake the fight scene between our two fan favorite characters in the game that solidified our company as being amazing." "SURE ARE! Go assign it to Jim the new intern. We only have a $50 budget for the scene."
Not just that. This scene was always intended to be a cinematic, but they lacked time to do it justice in the original. When Reforged was announced my first thought was seeing the original vision for this scene. As you can imagine, my disappointment is palpable.
@@stoheha is right. Why in oblivion didn't they make this as a full cinematic battle? They have no excuse after 20 years. This is just like a big middle finger to everyone else.
They could at least give a brief moment of Arthas dodging Illidan's blades or something while he reaches out for his Frostmourne after being thrown away instead of casually running to it and Illidan does nothing.
Speaking of the disarming, I think the new version gets who's the hero/villain mixed up - Illidan is the dark hero and Arthas is the villain protagonist. The Original clearly establishes that in the first clash - Arthas is overpowering Illidan, making Illidan the underdog we should root for. Meanwhile, the New version doesn't stop at merely having Illidan overpowering Arthas - he straight-up disarms him! This establishes Arthas as the Pure and Just hero, who must vanquish the darkness of- hurg... pah! Sorry, threw up a little there. For extra stupidity, most examples I've seen of the "villain disarms the hero" trope either save it for the end of the fight or have the hero immediately disarm the villain so they both have a fist fight over retrieving their weapons; NOT at the start of the fight as cheap way to tell us who the "Hero" is.
Exactly this. The way the scene showed Arthas turned his entire back making him vulnerable to a fatal blow and you just made Illidan wait and stare at him? Further proof that this was a horribly choreographed scene.
@@GlassGolem None of them is the good boy here. Illidan is not here because he wants to save the world or anything like that (unlike his preceding battles in w3, where I would agree with you on him being the dark hero). Lich king rebelled against Legion, which is the bad guys faction, that created Lich king. And as a result Kil Jaeden gets angry and forces his other pawn Illidan, who even tried to hide, to go and kill the Lich king. And Illidan goes cuz otherwise Kil jaeden would kill him. And judging from the rebellion of Lich king against legion it looks they may wanted to make him turn good. That would actually make Arthas the hero here because he came in the last minute to save the rebellious LK from vengeance of his evil masters. And since they gave up making strategy games (where this would be a nice plot twist that was being slowly built up) changing to MMO they kinda needed LK as the main boss for WoW expansion to attract people as he was the most famous iconic "baddie" figure they had along with Illidan who was a boss an expansion sooner. Even the two factions of Illidan's army here became bosses for the sake of selling the MMO even though they weren't really evil. Also few comments sooner I read that while it is not properly shown in the animation but it is only in book how Illidan lost to Arthas because he was boasting and unerestimating Arthas which I guess would by your standards make Illidan the bad guy. Nevertheless what I wrote is how I percieve and feel about it and w3 was a lot about morally gray characters so I know that everyone could have different feelings about it and it is open up for a discussion. (btw I am not considering Legion expansion here as it came much later.)
@@tnnetnattninuttn4627 That's an interesting perspective, but I don't think it reflects what actually appears in the story(s). For starters, while Illidan has done fowl things, they were generally done with good intentions: absorbing the skull of Gul'dan's power was to better slay the demons invading Azeroth; melting Icecrown Glacier was to destroy the Lich King Ner'zhul, a "mutual enemy" of the Night Elves. Having said that, his lust for power and lack of concern for consequences are very unbecoming of of a hero, even a dark one. But Arthas? Any good intentions he had for taking up Frostmorne withered a died after he killed his father and slaughtered his countrymen in the name of Ner'zhul. What few "free willed" actions he takes as a Death Knight serve only to be cruel, petty, and fuel his own megalomania: turning Silvanas into a sentient slave instead of a mindless automaton; having everyone call him "king". Even betraying the location of the Skull of Gul'dan was for getting rid of Ner'zhul's jailers. Here's the interesting part, though: while skimming through WoWwiki articles, I learned that BOTH Illidan and Arthas were redeemed; but their respective arcs were very different... Illidan develops a nasty case of insanity in WoW, forcing him to be put down. His body survives, however, and is stolen by an alternate universe Gul'dan (just roll with it), but his spirit assists stoping Gul'dan, ultimately resulting in Illidan reclaiming his body and slaying the self-proclaimed "Darkness Incarnate ". With Illidan's insanity (mostly) cured, the Naaru Xe'ra, a being of pure Light, claims that Illidan is the child of Light and Shadow, destined to end the age demons. And Arthas? After gaining complete control of his body post-merging with Ner'zhul, he launches a full scale assault on the lands of the living. The ensuing counterattack being a means to acquire more powerful servants to conquer the world. After Frostmorne is shattered and the Helm of Domination knocked off his head from a mortal wound, Ner'zhul's influence is removed, and in his dying moments, Arthas is redeemed. Oh, if you're wondering what the deal with the "good" Lich King running around after that? That's Tirion Fordring, a completely different person who was good the whole time, and willingly took on the mantle of Lich King after Arthas's death to ensure the mindless undead do not attack the living. So what do I think that means for the final battle of WC3:tFT? Well, though Illidan is hardly a "good guy", there's a great deal of "grayness" to his actions; and he does seemingly have a full redemption in the future, so having him in a slightly heroic light could be justified. But Arthas? He's not a hero in this fight - and he never truly becomes one in WoW either. He's a slave; unquestionably obeying the Ner'zhul's orders, even as the Lich King's power whanes. Even when he assumes control, he's still a slave to Ner'zhul's desire for conquest and domination. ...Which is why the remade cutscene makes me puke: it keeps ramming down my throat that Arthas is the "hero"; complete with having him use skill and agility to best Illidan, who uses overwhelming force to win - when, based on their weapons and armor(or lack thereof), it should be the other way around!
I couldnt have said that better myself, even how the fight plays out is embarrasing from a manouver point of view, it reminds me of two giraffes butting heads
Ah, Yes. A ten thousand-year-old demon-boosted ninja elf with superpowers swing two blades in the way an orc grunt would swing two axes... in slow motion.
Well, all of that pompous stuff only gets in the way. Hooves slide on ice, they're impractical for a bipedal creature, wings get in the way and they're a big target, warglaives have center mass in your hand so you can't add the weapon's weight to the swing, plus Illidan has no armor. His battlegear is all looks, but he still can't impress Tyrande)
kamchatmonk yep. The only redeeming quality in this fight for him is supposed to be martial arts, fel, and speed. But this shows almost non of those skills. But Arthas, who has more armor, still can’t beat this big dumb animal. He looks like a drunk meth addict and fights like one too, so I guess I didn’t expect much more.
@@Mallador-ed4eq They should have made him like necromancer from Diablo II but they gave him a very ugly face, his face should have only been slightly discolored, nothing more.
kamchatmonk wings get in the way as much as your off arm would. It’s a part of your body and you’d be able to move it accordingly, the ability to fly gives him a large advantage. He has demonic powers, I don’t think he’s exactly concerned about hooves sliding on ice. I mean he has magic. Also been fighting literal demons with their own insane powers, I don’t think using the weight of a sword in his swing vs a glaive makes that much of a difference at that point. Pretty sure he could rip Arthas in half with his bare hands, let alone his ridiculous speed. Illidan one of the baddest mofos out there, don’t hate on the mans just cause they let Arthas take him out for the plot
If you catch a sword and able to hold it, barehand or not it will not cut you. Yet, at least till it move. But it still pretty dumb for Illidan to do so.
Original: Illidan's ultimate was probably still in cool down, or there was simply no time for him to transform. It is fine. Reforged: WTF USE YOUR RANGED ATTACK SINCE YOU HAVE ALREADY TRANSFORMED!
It's simple : Illidan did not have proper control over his demonic form, which is why it acted straight and dumb. Which is why he retreated to Draenor ruins, to learn his own dark side, take control of it and help the ones in need to do the same. Power means nothing if you cant control it.
@@imadeus_ww Where the heck did you get that idea? We can see in Illidan's missions that he uses his demonic form successfully. He wins a fight against two infernals. Illidan is definitely more powerful by a lot If we study them and use logic, so Arthas winning this makes no sense. I wish they made Arthas win in a way that would make sense. For example, he could set a trap for Illidan- Anuburak could hide under the snow and Arthas would fight, slowly retreating, to lure Illidan and Anuburak would suddenly come out behind Illidan, stabbing him in the back, which would give Arthas the window to finish him off with Frostmourne. That would make a lot of sense and it would be much more interesting. So Arthas should have won by outsmarting his opponent, rather than outpowering him which is bullshit.
@@gracefuldice1956 POV: This just happened this way. Let's just wait if Sylvanas gonna get enough POWAH to rewind universe to the moment when things gone wrong and change it.
Legit, this feels like some intern pet project. Someone hired the most useless, disposable people possible in order to make this game, and then they slapped some expensive-looking art assets over the top to cover their tracks. Ride the hype, use the fandom to its full potential, and then lay waste when it's over. And then there's going to be a meeting over a table with Activision and Blizzard board members talking about how people clearly don't want another Warcraft. "Look at all the bad reviews. Look at all the refunds. This made zero money. Let's continue making stuff that actually makes us capital instead." And just like that, the RTS genre vanishes. Just like Command & Conquer.
@@amiramduby also can anyone tell me how to fix the login problem for reforged I searched the internet and it says I need a CD key which isn't available in my country! Is there any other way
2018 Me: All they have to do is copy and paste, and make it look better... (I thought how could they even screw it up?) 2020 Me: Aaaand they did it, they found a way to somehow screw it up!
Leave it to blizzard to screw up a (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) game with a remastered version. I wouldn't be surprised to see them remaster Lost Vikings and screw it up like a botched plastic surgery that makes you look like a 28 year old lizard.
Old one - Simple but effective soundtrack and sound design, which adds to the dynamic of the scene. Reforged - Trying to go back to that Wotlk intro cinematic, failling, leaving a fight scene with a barely present music...
@@gerardlacroix6015 yes a more indepth version of what i said, include that the animations of Reforged looks about par with the old one, which is really not great considering the time gap
@@theguiltypaytheprice.4899 im not insulting claymation, i like claymation but like verything else there is such a thing as bad claymation and that is what the movement in the cinematic reminded me of
Wow. I always thought the original fight was too short, made Illidan look really weak, had a dumb conclusion, and was annoyed it was only in-game graphics and not one of the amazing cinematics Blizzard was known for. Somehow the proper cinematic version in Reforged looks and flows worse and has a dumber conclusion. This makes me appreciate the original more.
I agree it is not Blizzard quality. But do not be a like hunter bullshiter sheep lol. We can consider this a fan made version, then everyone will start appretiating it...
These "sheep" that hate reforged are peoole who played the original Warcraft 3. Their opinion is more important than some white knight's defending a failes game.
@@darwinwaterson3961 I've played WC since WCI and to be honest I preferred WCII style over WCIII :D I hated those square looks and the kinda fixed and close camera angles :D But it had its atmosphere and generally it was a great game, which I loved and played through several times. But. You sheeps are terrible. We are not talking about the game itself, only the graphics, which, you do not tell me was better in the original just because you want to belong to somewhere, to the sheeps :D Even if the graphic is not Blizzard level here either.
The weapons in the new cutscene are too bulky - it's because they were going for the WoW aesthetic even though the WoW weapons look like that partially because of engine limitations. But by having Frostmourne look so thick that it's practically a club (compare how it looks here with the WoTLK trailer) and Illidain's glaives looking similarly fat, its a huge contributing factor to the scene looking clunky.
PresidentWordSalad The swords in general have the same aesthetic as BFA’s swords, the footmen weapons look like plastic or those balloon swords you get from a stinky renaissance fair.
Its also that Illidan is much more massive than Arthas. Nelfs are tall, but not giants. Why the fight looks so clunky as well because Illidan’s meant to be the fast and agile one, cannot really have that if Illidans a fucken big ass brute.
I am saying this as someone who is studying animation and Vfx- The newer animation is so dull and lifeless, there are almost no emotions portrayed on those faces. Also the lack of any soundtracks/ost is a huge minus. The old one, while outdated, is a lot more lively and CONSISTENT. The main difference is the consistence in each cutscene. In the remake, their moves are inconsistent, sometimes they swing faster or slower, there is no impact felt when their blades cross but their BODY LANGUAGE suggests nothing, as to why this inconsistency occurs. The old one is all high phased, even anime like, perfectly comfortable with its choreorgaphy and feeling
No/dampened emotions on their faces is even kinda canon friendly. Arthas is almost an empty shell at that point and illidan is a demon hunter who sacrificed nearly everything he had for power. Now the rest of the cutscene...
Senate OP for me the biggest problem was the sluggishness of the fight for the new cutscene these are two powerful beings one a demon hunter amped by fel magic the other a death knight with a blade that destroyed entire armies and they move like they are mud up to their knees with strikes that make it seem like they are throwing heavy dumbbells around instead of precise light weaponry
Check out a series called Astartes, it’s a fan made series of videos about Warhammer 40K space marines and it’s so much better then the Reforged cutscenes
For the 2020 they could have at least made Arthas a bit more fluid and not so stumpy, it makes you wonder how it's physically possible for him to beat Illidan when he looks almost paralyzed.
Ridley Um no it’s not? They weren’t the ones who produced it so it isn’t their product. Sure, it’s their fault for trusting the company but that’s about it. It’s just that everybody loves to bitch and complain over things they have no control over. If you want to hate on the devs, thats fine by me. Just hate on the right people and don’t sound like a toddler doing it
2:41 That's one hell of a landing. Consider how high he must have jumped in full armor. Arthas should have used his super human jumping abilities more often.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Death Knights had that kind of super human strength/abilities. After all, they are infused with powerfull death magic. But even with that, that kind of landing is plain bullshit "Anime Landing".
You'd think someone would actually post-edit music into this or something, but apparently there wasn't even enough time left for the Malaysian audio engineer to give it a look lmao
This felt like one of those dream fights where you can't put strength in your punches. The first time I got that cinematic I felt it was bland, and now I don't.
@@HunGerMovies It's not terrible, but it should be amazing this is Blizzard we're talking about they have a very high standard for cinematics that they didn't hit
@@meris8486 That is true, but I was referring to comments which claim that the original ingame cinematics is better, and Arthas looks like a drunk here, when he pretty much looks like on the original cover of The frozen throne expansion lol. Except for the facial expressions, that is kinda cringe.
This is just sad. Mangling a classic for a quick cash-grab? At least make it a cash-grab that lets players create their own damn maps (without calling it your "intellectual propriety").
@@dtczyk8976 Like Fumoma said. You are not getting it, are you? Imagine writing a whole doctoral thesis in Word or PowerPoint and Microsoft comes in saying that the entire thing is theirs now. Imagine spending years making a game in, let's say, the Unreal engine. Well, it's not your game, right? It belongs to Epic. You did use assets from their engine, didn't you?
To be somewhat fair to Arthas, he's one of the undead before the campaign even begins. He can't even feel the chill cold of Northrend, let alone the weight of his armor and sword.
Everything I could find wrong with this cutscene: 0:53 Illidan lands crouching slightly, but at 0:55 he only straightens his back, and gets into an awkward position 1:22 Too long of a run, either have him closer or cut to him already near Illidan 1:25 Zero, and I mean ZERO weight behind everything, it feels like the weapons are made out of plastic, no, more like paper, just more solid. These are superhuman beings figthting with oversized swords, yet it's like me and the boys fighting with plastic swords. 1:32 Frostmourne gets launched back straight, but somehow starts rotating sideways? And the blade shifts to the left for a moment, which makes no sense. 1:43 Illidan parries Frostmourne, a heavy long sword with extra bulkiness because Fantasy like it's a plastic sword with his equally heavy warblade like it's a plastic sword used by a skinny guy. What happened there shouldn't be possible 1:45 Watch that in slow motion. Arthas is sliding back, on ONE AXIS. He's moving backwards standing still. That's something even an amateur animator wouldn't do unless the camera angle masks it away, but here, it doesn't. 1:52 Slow motion, and then Arthas' head suddenly shifts. Such a move would break your neck 2:32 What the hell is that position? These are so obvious and easy to improve, for a Triple A company, putting out something like this is disgraceful. I was considering returning to WoW with Shadowlands, but seeing how Reforge turned out, I'll rather put my money else where.
@@Aztonio Just seeing how much care was put into this, I wouldn't have expected any quality into Shadowlands. Fortunately I was proven wrong with Torghast.
@@katamas832 are you sure abaut that...in these 2 months they managed to ruin thorgast and add 5 or something like that LGBT charactets out of ass. Where the fuck is refund option for preorder?
@@katamas832 A little late but the cinematic wasn't made by Blizzard. It was made by Lemon Sky Studios, which is the company that was in charge of remaking the assets and animations for Reforged
Julio Cesar I'm done. You fuckers haven't changed one bit. Apparently, APPARENTLY, the best way to make a fight scene, is make it last 1 seconds and have a clear and defined winner right from the start, and put zero effort into animation. Sounds like bullshit flash animation. Whatever. I know the remastered fight is better, and you all are just being toxic idiots. Didn't you all say Warcraft 3 was far better than World of Warcraft? And, besides, isn't the point of a REMASTER supposed to mean you UPDATE THE GRAPHICS AND ANIMATION AND NOTHING ELSE!?
@@thefiresworddragon927 First off I hope you realize he didn't talk about the lore and stated the remaster looked like shit. And if you think that current WoW lore is good, think twice about being a true WC fan and oldgen.
@@ivanmarinkovic9681 both are better fighter than this new cinematics shows us. It bothers me that illidan growls like in pain when he use metamorph, but in legion he use it easly.
@@eafesaf6934 I feel like they intentionally put that in there. Could you imagine how hard they're laughing when they put that in there. Just wheezing and cackling so hard they almost pass out and cant believe people are actually buying it
@@darwinwaterson3961 Sheeps are many, I am alone, you are many:D Who says that WC3 original cinematics was epic, and this is shit , well, that is a huge like whore sheep on the wagon :D Facial expression sucked but Arthas looks like almost exactly as on the original game cover :D sheeps
@Julio Cesar Here comes the "I and my buddies" dude :D Name all of the people agreeing with you pls. I feel like you are alone, and you wanna belong to a group, that is the only reason you jumped on the hate blindly team with false reasoning :D I would not be in your shoes :D Pls contact me when you have your own opinion :D So agree with this statement: "Warcraft 3: Reforged 2 drunkards doing roleplay Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne 2 great warriors doing their best not to make a mistake" You agree that a two pixel WCIII animation was better than the new animated one :D Sure. I told it is nowhere near to Blizzard quality, but saying original Arthas vs Illidian fight was epic, and new is shit is utter bullshit from kids who feel alone :D
@Gula Valenzuela ahh yes the classic excuse of: "Try doing it yourself and you'll se how hard it is! Like, just no. I don't need to be a Baker to say that this bread is bad. Just like how i don't need to be an animator to say that the animation is bad.
@Gula Valenzuela But the thing that's still bs argument, like why do i need to become an animator to say that animation is bad, i don't need to become a baker to say that this bread is shit.
@@Amiko_Ami12 He didn't say the bread was bad. He insulted the baker, he said "how could the baker fuck that up, what a fucking idiot". When you insult the fucking baker, you better be able to bake some fine fucking bread.
@Gula Valenzuela nah mate, when you said "you try animating and see how far you get" and "reforged is still in beta tbh" you're just defending a product by deflection. Reforged is not a beta and you saying it's because developers/animators did not have enough time to polish it doesn't make it a beta, you're making it your opinion to say that it's a beta which is a pretty damn stupid way to defend a game. And what's the point of asking the other person to animate and see how far/better they can do than Blizzard? You're deflecting. I don't need to be a better developer/animator to criticize how bad they screwed this up just as how I don't need to be a car mechanic to know some dude fucked up their car's engine. Your logic of "I should be able to do better at those areas before criticising" is stupid. We can clearly see how bad the game is and we - the target consumer for this product - can damn well criticize how bad Blizzard and the outsourced developers handled WC3 "refunded".
@K according to wiki “On February 14, 2003, Blizzard announced the first beta test for the game” Likely around 2002,the scene was done.Plus I cleared campaign around 8 to 10 times and I don’t remember when is the exact year ROC or TFT came out, cause I first played it around 2010.
I really feel that the new cinematic is a bit off. There is not as much "strengh" and "impacts" in their fight... I don't know how to say it. They kinda look like they're faking it. I mean, look at 1:44 in slow-mo, what just happen to Arthas did he just slided back without even being touched ?
holy shit youre right about that, they literally just fucking slid his character model back on a axis, they didnt even make him flinch what the fuck...... As someone who has worked on games, i can tell you either the devs didnt want to do this, or they did want to do it but were so crunched for time they had to rush everything to meet a deadline instead of actually making it great which takes time and money, and with the way the graphics are going, a lot of money to make it not look like a crappy sfm model
And besides animation problems. The fight itself is dull. Arthas is in full plate armor and we know he isn't very fast when he is wearing it (logical, and he doesn't need to because he is a tank) and yet when he loses grip of the sword he manages to run back and get it without getting a single cut from Illidan (one of the fastest warriors in history who is wearing very light armor). Couldn't take the fight seriously after that.
Illidan: trained demon hunter and spent hundreds of years mastering the warglaives, yet still has no concept of attacking at different angles with both or slashing arthas when blocking an attack with 1 of them
the old one is much better you can see illidan is struggling on defense when arthas attack him which make it unable for him to attack using his other blade new one makes 0 sense
PapiDeHusky Exactly. In the old one, Illidan had to use his right arm to keep himself from falling down. In the new one, Illidan has _nothing_ stopping him from slashing at Arthas when he parries, since he still has his center of balance.
Masters of their own weapons and some of the most powerful beings in WC3. Illidan is hyped up to be stronger than any of Archimondes lackeys while Arthas is empowered by Lich King, so you would of expected some anime like battle but nope.
Flying Pilgrim I felt the opposite. I felt it had too much weight. Everything felt sluggish when these are meant to be two deliberately overpowered beings. Illidan is a demon empowered elf, he should be fast, graceful, lethal. Arthas is a warrior who has been empowered by the scourge and whose close proximity to the Lich King is undoubtedly strengthening him despite the Lich Kings current weakness.
Yeah they both are practically demigods by this point, but they’re stumbling around like clumsy novices. There’s weightiness but... There’s no POWER behind the weightiness, it’s more like clumsiness. Seriously looks like a low to mid tier UA-cam machinima creation.
@@Sintakhra By lacking weight I think OP ment lacking impact and momentum... When they move they behave as if their movements carry no force behind them... This is also why it feels sluggish and slow
@@MaMastoast Nah, I got what he was referring to :) It lacked the emotional pull, the sense of desperation and determination as one usually reserves for essentially the penultimate cutscene in a game.
Old one: *actually try to hit each other, powerful hits, takes short time as all sword fights should, both combatants attempt to dodge and parry logically, everything is decided with a precise and decisive swing to a surprised, strategically backing enemy* New one: -nOtHiNg PeRsOnAl KiD
It's literally just swords and blades hitting each other Like what you tend to do as a kid where you play with "swords" but don't actually hit each other
Actually I think the new one did all of the things you mentioned better. More convincing characters, better physics, better movement. Both are rubbish, neither resemble fighting, nothing logically happens in either. It's just that the first clearly had no professional choreography behind it and looks like something children come up with during lunch.
@@7dayspking gonna have to disagree with you. I found lots of things wrong with the way the new scene was choreographed, and how every swing of their attacks bear no weight starting with Arthas' first attack. It's like he held frostmourne in front of him and just ran towards Illidan until the blades clashed. When frostmourne was thrown and Arthas casually turned his back to Illidan exposing him to a fatal attack and they just casually walked together until Arthas grab the sword? And during the slow motion when Arthas slid, his head moved faster than his body sliding - his head movement has some sort of super speed? Those weren't better character, movement, physics nor was it a better choreography. While you think the original was rubbish, the scene at least looked like they were fighting for their lives. The dumb part where Illidan flew up? That was because Illidan was showing off as stated in the novel : “ 'Behold the Twin Blades of Azzinoth, ' Illidan gloated. He flew up higher, whirling the blades in his left and right hands..." The novel had the fight longer but they were emphasizing that Illidan was pretty cocky during the fight and Arthas saw an opening. And I know you basically said there's no point in analyzing the logic of the fight but if that was always the case then we'd be seeing a lot of half-assed pathetic fight scenes from prior blizzard cutscenes and cinematics.
Always remember: When you face a duel wilding enemy and he disarms you, just turn your back to him and go grab your sword, it is def. going to work...as long as god gave ya plot armor. :D
A good and creative dev team would have animated Arthas using something like Death Grip to snatch his sword in the nick of time, maybe even using a spell like Howling Blast to put some space between him and Illidan... A bad and lazy dev team goes for ye olde plot armor!
Also when you already sliced, just turn your back and drop your two bladed weird sword and growls painfully. You will got extra smoke in your body and fly. Ignore the enemy, you protected by blizzard plot armor 😈
He was. Right before the fight, the Lich King tells Arthas that he's going to give him the rest of his power in a last-ditch effort to make sure Arthas beats Illidan and gets to the throne before it's too late.
@@sasca854 well from what ive heard, in the actual lore Illidan beats the shit out of Arthas. Which makes a lot more sense then the other way around. Arthas wins with a sucker punch, using a moment of opportunity, rather than outright force. IMO based on the 2 characters, Arthas, specifically at this moment before doning the helm, had not but a glimmer of power in comparison to Illidan
@@Brett77902 thats true. in the book that describes the fight more detailed than the short clip shown in WC3, Illidan beats the crap out of Arthas. Illidan at that point is incredibly powerful, and while Arthas got the power backup from the Lich King, the Lich King was extremely weak at that point, because all his power flowed out of the rift in the Frozen Throne. So Illidan was basically beating and burning Arthas, but when he allowed himself to get too close to finish him off, Frostmourne basically acted on its own for a moment and made an otherwise impossible strike to kill Illidan when he didnt expect it anymore. Illidan survived, but the blade saved Arthas, and thus its master the Lich King himself.
If Illidan was already in front of Arthas, why would he suddenly disappeared and reappeared in the new cutscene. While the old one, they just cut right into the tension and just started off with Arthas' unholy aura buffed sprint. Which is much better obviously.
Even though the old fight-scene is shorter, the whole scene is more dynamic and the physics look more realistic - the impact of the weapons smashing into each other is much more pronounced and can be felt to another degree.
Can we all agree that this video shows how stupid warglaives are as a weapon? Poor Illidan had no chance to land a single blow because hands don't bend that way lol.
Wow. I remember thinking that this cutscene was bad back in the day. How is it possible that, graphics aside, everything else is objectively worse in a remaster 18 years later? Achieving this takes some real talent.
During the remaster I kept having to ask, "is this real? this isnt fan made?" It feels like a fan made animation, but not in a good way, in the "well uh... you tried I guess?" sort of way.
2:35 Arthas just swung his weapon while running while in 3:32 he stopped his momentum to deliver a much stronger swing. How could the remaster eff'ed this up?
@@Krelian89 thats not necessarily true there has been a few cases where outsourcing has resulted in great quality. its rare though. but this is not one of those times, like..... at all lmfao. i hope for their sake that the people behind this shit learn from their mistakes and get better. or maybe they dont actually give a fuck and they are just their to earn a buck which seems more likely. zero love when into this "remake"
@@Krelian89 Unless you're Bethesda. Then outsourcing is the only way you make a good game these days... (ESO was farmed out to Korea or similar. That's why it's the only multiplayer Bethesda game that actually works.)
Its honestly my least favorite part of the cutscene. He has Arthas so dead to rights and the camera just moves in a way to hide the fact illidan had to just stand there and stare at him. The rest is poorly animated yeah, but thats just such a huge logic fail. Also, metamorphosis is just so weird on illidan, given that he's already a big demon boi. He traded his weapons for what? Being black and shadowy? Frostmourne just cleaved through it anyway. I know when I played it back in 2002, I was disapointed that Illidan wasn't given a different ultimate.
Also, the old one made more sense choreographically. Illidan jumped away to avoid arthas but arthas rushed and caught up to him. In the new one Illidan drops his weapon for no reason? and charges straight into frostmourne? god damn blizz
Is it just me or frostmourn handle extends? Look at 0:46 the grip looks like its for one handed use until he grips it at for two handed in 1:07 wtf blizzard
It's so sad - the original wasn't even a cinematic, it was made useing game engine, so it looked rather... bad visually. But it had it's soul. The new one - just nothing. And that Illida's "demon form" - what for?? To show how "strong" is Arthas?
The original was a cinematic, it wasn't 'held back' they just didn't have the time, resources or effort to go above and beyond and make a true cinematic.
@@7dayspking It wasn't a cinematic tho. Cinematics are supposed to be detailed like the original Warcraft 3 trailer . This was merely a cutscene, which is why it used in-game assets.
2002 won this by a mile. Obviously the gfx is better in 2020 but as with many new games today, the devs focus way too much on crazy gfx and forget many other crucial things. I mean just that cut on Illidan at 3:35 from the 2002 version is more than 5 times better, deeper and has way more impactful sound that 2020. It's not even close or up for debate. 2020 cut sounds like some space ship just hit Illidan, sigh.
I can't believe they got rid of the clashing noise from the original where the metal starts to do this sort of scraping whining sound. I always loved that about the fight. That and Arthas doing a sort of jump into his upward slash at 3:32 gives the animation a lot of power.
@ I thought they had *potential* with Cataclysm, as Deathwing had been a villain I'd wanted to see again since Warcraft 2... But then they had him beaten by Green Jesus using the only weapon in all of WoW Lore that literally should be incapable of harming Deathwing.
@@igorthelight ah, that's interesting... but then this is still in collaboration so idk. thought maybe they (blizz) would watch the cinematic first to at least quality check it
they actually managed to make this look worse than the old one. Illidan drops his weapons for no reason then goes Meta and then Arthas flies like a Superman and one shots him. let's not mention this clunky, lame animation that was done by some amateur when he was bored. fight in the book is still >>>>>> anything shown in the game.
4 роки тому
he uses his ultimate skill metamorphosis which transform him into a monster that's why he dropped the weapon.
At 1:50, that's where a trained warrior such as Illidan would immediately win - he was swinging, had a momentum he could use to stab Arthas with his second glaive. For some reason, Illidan obviously negated the swinging momentum to stop himself from hitting Arthas...
Oh yes! Sorry, I much prefer the original. I really find the graphics of the reforged not looking good at all. Exaggerated disproportion of characters and armor, terrain more than yuck, the characters are not beautiful at all (my god Arthas is disgusting, put the old one back quickly !!!). In addition, in the cutscene, I have the impression that they move in a "heavy" way. It's not fluid at all. In short, I stay on the original. A little brain? ; p
![Illidan Becomes a Demon [REFORGED] and Gets Banished by his Brother VS Original Scenes of Warcraft 3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k6n7Tj-0-oQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Illidan Becomes a Demon [REFORGED] and Gets Banished by his Brother VS Original Scenes of Warcraft 3](/img/tr.png)
![Arthas Takes Frostmourne & Becomes The Lich King - All Cinematics in Order [World of Warcraft]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VfsHW8oWXLs/mqdefault.jpg)
"IT'S TIME TO END THE GAME, ONCE AND FOR ALL"
Blizzard: We hear you!
lol
Ironic
Every voice count
This summarize up Blizzard's attitude to this poor game.
I'm confused on why Illidan faced the camera when he went infront of Arthas
You know what? I'm fine with the original Diablo 2 We don't need a remastered.
@Cthulhu See warcraft 3 :p
Cthulhu Diablo 2 fans: How can they fuck up a remaster of this game?
Activision/Blizzard: Observe
@Hurr durr 22 u are asking too much for thrm already
😂😂 I got you. But I still expect.
@Hurr durr 22 theyve had skill point resets for a couple years now :p
You know, this is much deeper than you think. These clips were made that bad completely intentional. Tha PAIN you feel watching it makes you to understand Illidan's pain much better
Lmfao I was not prepared
thanks god deathwing wasnt in wc3, all his pain and agony must become real shit if animated in that way
he had us in the first half, not gonna lie :)
I think I'm gonna need a lot of alcohol to gorget about it. This cinematic is the most painful thing to watch. Even watching somebody getting punched in the balls isn't that painful
So deep!
Somehow the original blocky models looks more animated and life-like than the new HD models. Exquisite camera works of the original also plays a big part.
Because the originals took themselves seriously.
If you try to replicate what it would be like fighting with those weapons (warglaives vs two-handed sword) you would achieve a result more similar to the original than the reforged.
The audio is also better, adds more dramatic impact to each blow.
@@ismaelsantos5378 old models were designed by actual professionals with years of experience in a top studio. New ones were made by diversity hires who probably came straight from college and played the game in their childhood. Just my guess.
@@Affenpeter someone who played this in their childhood would never to this to a game they loved as a kid
The new arthas looks like he is cosplaying his old self. His gear and sword looks like it's made from cardboard box
the new HD models were made by some indie lazy-ass live2D riggers artist that relies only on drawing a single panel characters and rig it instead of making a full motion made of different layers.
Me: *a star craft player*
Blizzard forgot about me :(
*After reforged *
Blizzard forgot about me :D
they actually did a better job remastaring starcraft.
@@sakib9102 true
@Natgal no they are right in saying happy when blizzard forgot about them after the reforged
@Natgal that's cool and all but
1: I play Starcraft 2 so I wouldn't know the problems with it other than this cut scene and some other stuff.
2: I USED to play the original Warcraft 3 quite a bit back but they fucked up on releasing it this early.
3: That is cool that you can play Naga in multiplayer however, you could already do this with maps.
Edit: added "quite a bit back" after warcraft 3
@Natgal True its always good to stay positive but man this shit is garb- I mean, _needs more polish_
We've come to the point where Blizzard screwed up a cinematic
BMM Productions it made me laugh. One thing I never critiqued them on was their cinematic. This is shit. Lazy game freak levels of shit
Thing is it is not even blizzard work. War3 reforged was outsourced to malaysian studio that did work on sc remastered. They didnt even bother to work on their flagship franchise.
Ziemniaczany didn’t have the budget/employees is more accurate
@@Gredran blizzard didn't have money and employees? lol shut up please
BADBOY OFFICIAL dude, last year Activision axed over 200 employees from various departments, and also made Blizzard rush the game out.
You ”shut up please”
The new one looks like it was done by a single person in his free time.
In free time and for free to be honest
@@lastkisswow2433 As a side project... during vacation.
are u saying single person because it doesn't have any love in it?
@@edwardness7497 It feels weightless, rushed and soulless. Doesn't look like something that was made by a company, let alone by bloody Blizzard.
The general reforging (other than creating the new models) feels really lazy :(
The classic version while look shit, at least it has smooth movement between arthas vs illidan. Reforged version look so awkward and stiff it not even funny.
I legit thought it's stop motion
Remember the classic was released in 2002. Back then it looked great.
@@SimaoRodrigues... Nope. It was bad even by their standards
@@SimaoRodrigues... it was bad. Even back in the day. It was their first attempt to use in game cut scene.
@@krapper6599 everyone knew it was in-game and for an in-game cinematic it was very very good at the time. No one thought it was bad.
"Arthas looks like a 55 year old drunk carrying a sword"
I mean, he's supposed to look withered and all from being undead. But yeah, the fast pace and that split second assault when Illidan tries to flee back into the air are just ruined here.
And illidan forgot to use his sword lol
He looks pretty much like on the original cover of the game... I mean I understand the rage, but just don't sit on the sheep wagon and nitpick bullshits. Tho the cinematics is still light years from Blizzard quality and the facial expressions kinda suck: codeshop.hu/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/74d4146f-1c68-4cd9-a0fe-f3dfa0cf4c06.jpg.jpg
They tried to imitate DMC5 doing it well and it didn't really stick.
Yeah. He just 21 year old drunk with a sword...
Illidan: The Frozen Throne is yours, human. Let me step aside. I'll leave this world, and never return. If I do, you'll be waiting.
Arthas: You have sworn to destroy it, Illidan. It must be done!
Illidan: Never.
Lol
Yay
That’s the alternative ending lol
Bro, there was a text with the same “reversed” style as you wrote here , but the dialogue between Jaina and Arthas before the stratholm , could you find it and share here ?
The true reason Illidan was called The Betrayer - he swore to destroy the Frozen Throne and tried to betray that vow.
Illidan looks like he has no clue how to use his own weapon and Frostmourne has ZERO weight behind it in the new one.
Enough said...
I'd have no clue how to use his weapon as well ;]
xLetalis Now time for witcher :)
@@xLetalis I mean.... Blizzard should probably understand how to use it.... They made Heroes of the Storm, and Illidan works great there. Here he looks like he will stab himself at any moment now.
@@MrWillypanda88 Different team I believe. The Reforged team try to make it like modern WOW trailer and Heroes but I think they are not the one who made those.That is why the model look great when standing still but weird in motions.
@@xLetalis it's literally like this is his first time wielding it in a fight he just swings it no style or anyhting
"Hey were a company thats known for making astonishing cinematics. And we are getting a chance to remake the fight scene between our two fan favorite characters in the game that solidified our company as being amazing."
"SURE ARE! Go assign it to Jim the new intern. We only have a $50 budget for the scene."
Jim from Malaysia.
Not just that. This scene was always intended to be a cinematic, but they lacked time to do it justice in the original. When Reforged was announced my first thought was seeing the original vision for this scene.
As you can imagine, my disappointment is palpable.
@@stoheha Yeah, it was always kinda disappointed that they didn't make it a proper cinematic in the vein of Thrall and Grom Hellscream vs Mannoroth.
@@stoheha is right.
Why in oblivion didn't they make this as a full cinematic battle?
They have no excuse after 20 years. This is just like a big middle finger to everyone else.
@@stoheha This is why I want Microsoft to buyout Blizzard to fire all the fuckers there, the same way Elon Musk fired all the fuckers at Twitter.
They could at least give a brief moment of Arthas dodging Illidan's blades or something while he reaches out for his Frostmourne after being thrown away instead of casually running to it and Illidan does nothing.
Speaking of the disarming, I think the new version gets who's the hero/villain mixed up - Illidan is the dark hero and Arthas is the villain protagonist.
The Original clearly establishes that in the first clash - Arthas is overpowering Illidan, making Illidan the underdog we should root for.
Meanwhile, the New version doesn't stop at merely having Illidan overpowering Arthas - he straight-up disarms him! This establishes Arthas as the Pure and Just hero, who must vanquish the darkness of- hurg... pah!
Sorry, threw up a little there.
For extra stupidity, most examples I've seen of the "villain disarms the hero" trope either save it for the end of the fight or have the hero immediately disarm the villain so they both have a fist fight over retrieving their weapons; NOT at the start of the fight as cheap way to tell us who the "Hero" is.
Exactly this. The way the scene showed Arthas turned his entire back making him vulnerable to a fatal blow and you just made Illidan wait and stare at him? Further proof that this was a horribly choreographed scene.
@@GlassGolem None of them is the good boy here. Illidan is not here because he wants to save the world or anything like that (unlike his preceding battles in w3, where I would agree with you on him being the dark hero). Lich king rebelled against Legion, which is the bad guys faction, that created Lich king. And as a result Kil Jaeden gets angry and forces his other pawn Illidan, who even tried to hide, to go and kill the Lich king. And Illidan goes cuz otherwise Kil jaeden would kill him. And judging from the rebellion of Lich king against legion it looks they may wanted to make him turn good. That would actually make Arthas the hero here because he came in the last minute to save the rebellious LK from vengeance of his evil masters. And since they gave up making strategy games (where this would be a nice plot twist that was being slowly built up) changing to MMO they kinda needed LK as the main boss for WoW expansion to attract people as he was the most famous iconic "baddie" figure they had along with Illidan who was a boss an expansion sooner. Even the two factions of Illidan's army here became bosses for the sake of selling the MMO even though they weren't really evil. Also few comments sooner I read that while it is not properly shown in the animation but it is only in book how Illidan lost to Arthas because he was boasting and unerestimating Arthas which I guess would by your standards make Illidan the bad guy. Nevertheless what I wrote is how I percieve and feel about it and w3 was a lot about morally gray characters so I know that everyone could have different feelings about it and it is open up for a discussion. (btw I am not considering Legion expansion here as it came much later.)
@@tnnetnattninuttn4627 That's an interesting perspective, but I don't think it reflects what actually appears in the story(s).
For starters, while Illidan has done fowl things, they were generally done with good intentions: absorbing the skull of Gul'dan's power was to better slay the demons invading Azeroth; melting Icecrown Glacier was to destroy the Lich King Ner'zhul, a "mutual enemy" of the Night Elves. Having said that, his lust for power and lack of concern for consequences are very unbecoming of of a hero, even a dark one.
But Arthas? Any good intentions he had for taking up Frostmorne withered a died after he killed his father and slaughtered his countrymen in the name of Ner'zhul. What few "free willed" actions he takes as a Death Knight serve only to be cruel, petty, and fuel his own megalomania: turning Silvanas into a sentient slave instead of a mindless automaton; having everyone call him "king". Even betraying the location of the Skull of Gul'dan was for getting rid of Ner'zhul's jailers.
Here's the interesting part, though: while skimming through WoWwiki articles, I learned that BOTH Illidan and Arthas were redeemed; but their respective arcs were very different...
Illidan develops a nasty case of insanity in WoW, forcing him to be put down. His body survives, however, and is stolen by an alternate universe Gul'dan (just roll with it), but his spirit assists stoping Gul'dan, ultimately resulting in Illidan reclaiming his body and slaying the self-proclaimed "Darkness Incarnate ". With Illidan's insanity (mostly) cured, the Naaru Xe'ra, a being of pure Light, claims that Illidan is the child of Light and Shadow, destined to end the age demons.
And Arthas? After gaining complete control of his body post-merging with Ner'zhul, he launches a full scale assault on the lands of the living. The ensuing counterattack being a means to acquire more powerful servants to conquer the world. After Frostmorne is shattered and the Helm of Domination knocked off his head from a mortal wound, Ner'zhul's influence is removed, and in his dying moments, Arthas is redeemed.
Oh, if you're wondering what the deal with the "good" Lich King running around after that? That's Tirion Fordring, a completely different person who was good the whole time, and willingly took on the mantle of Lich King after Arthas's death to ensure the mindless undead do not attack the living.
So what do I think that means for the final battle of WC3:tFT? Well, though Illidan is hardly a "good guy", there's a great deal of "grayness" to his actions; and he does seemingly have a full redemption in the future, so having him in a slightly heroic light could be justified.
But Arthas? He's not a hero in this fight - and he never truly becomes one in WoW either.
He's a slave; unquestionably obeying the Ner'zhul's orders, even as the Lich King's power whanes. Even when he assumes control, he's still a slave to Ner'zhul's desire for conquest and domination.
...Which is why the remade cutscene makes me puke: it keeps ramming down my throat that Arthas is the "hero"; complete with having him use skill and agility to best Illidan, who uses overwhelming force to win - when, based on their weapons and armor(or lack thereof), it should be the other way around!
@@GlassGolem Agreed
It’s seriously astounding how much blizzard screwed up this remaster.
They thought they could largely get away with laziness as they had for a while, they were mistaken.
this just look like a Chinese movie..
Yes, it’s a real travesty. I ended up not even buying it.
@@rosharosus9681 Malaysian programmers did under contract with Activision. The old Blizzard no longer exists!
I couldnt have said that better myself, even how the fight plays out is embarrasing from a manouver point of view, it reminds me of two giraffes butting heads
I really love how blizzard managed to made a battle between 2 of the most iconic and epic characters looks like something boring...
It's funny that the classic has a more intense fight.
It's not funny.... Nothing about this issue is funny, we waited so long... T.T
@@jpxboxdstation sounds like game of thrones season 8, we waited for 2 or so years, and we got delivered a half baked peanut shitcake
They both suck
Actually, classic is dumb as fuck
Illidan retreats and while in the air arthas leap and finish him off
What the hell was that
@@marciaquispe4472 I mean, it's dumb, but they certainly didn't phone it in.
Ah, Yes. A ten thousand-year-old demon-boosted ninja elf with superpowers swing two blades in the way an orc grunt would swing two axes... in slow motion.
Well, all of that pompous stuff only gets in the way. Hooves slide on ice, they're impractical for a bipedal creature, wings get in the way and they're a big target, warglaives have center mass in your hand so you can't add the weapon's weight to the swing, plus Illidan has no armor. His battlegear is all looks, but he still can't impress Tyrande)
kamchatmonk yep. The only redeeming quality in this fight for him is supposed to be martial arts, fel, and speed. But this shows almost non of those skills. But Arthas, who has more armor, still can’t beat this big dumb animal. He looks like a drunk meth addict and fights like one too, so I guess I didn’t expect much more.
@@Mallador-ed4eq They should have made him like necromancer from Diablo II but they gave him a very ugly face, his face should have only been slightly discolored, nothing more.
the first part of your comment states his problem.... "ten thousand-year-old".... if only he was 1000 years younger :( lol
kamchatmonk wings get in the way as much as your off arm would. It’s a part of your body and you’d be able to move it accordingly, the ability to fly gives him a large advantage. He has demonic powers, I don’t think he’s exactly concerned about hooves sliding on ice. I mean he has magic. Also been fighting literal demons with their own insane powers, I don’t think using the weight of a sword in his swing vs a glaive makes that much of a difference at that point. Pretty sure he could rip Arthas in half with his bare hands, let alone his ridiculous speed.
Illidan one of the baddest mofos out there, don’t hate on the mans just cause they let Arthas take him out for the plot
Using bare hand to catch a sharp blade is coming toward you. Very smart move, Blizzard.
It is not bare hands tho. And even it was - he looks more like one of his gauls than an alive from flash.
If you catch a sword and able to hold it, barehand or not it will not cut you. Yet, at least till it move.
But it still pretty dumb for Illidan to do so.
@Roy J And he still got cut by it. Look at that cinematic and you'll see his hand bleeding fel blood.
The reforged one looks like a parody of an anime battle
Original: Illidan's ultimate was probably still in cool down, or there was simply no time for him to transform. It is fine.
Reforged: WTF USE YOUR RANGED ATTACK SINCE YOU HAVE ALREADY TRANSFORMED!
It's simple :
Illidan did not have proper control over his demonic form, which is why it acted straight and dumb. Which is why he retreated to Draenor ruins, to learn his own dark side, take control of it and help the ones in need to do the same.
Power means nothing if you cant control it.
@@imadeus_ww Where the heck did you get that idea? We can see in Illidan's missions that he uses his demonic form successfully. He wins a fight against two infernals. Illidan is definitely more powerful by a lot If we study them and use logic, so Arthas winning this makes no sense. I wish they made Arthas win in a way that would make sense. For example, he could set a trap for Illidan- Anuburak could hide under the snow and Arthas would fight, slowly retreating, to lure Illidan and Anuburak would suddenly come out behind Illidan, stabbing him in the back, which would give Arthas the window to finish him off with Frostmourne. That would make a lot of sense and it would be much more interesting. So Arthas should have won by outsmarting his opponent, rather than outpowering him which is bullshit.
@@gracefuldice1956 : No, Arthas cant just one-slash-win this fight
Arthas: Haha, Frostmourne goes whoosh
@@imadeus_ww OK, whatever it takes to win. That's what he should have done. Summon 50 infernals or something like that. That's exactly my point.
@@gracefuldice1956 POV:
This just happened this way. Let's just wait if Sylvanas gonna get enough POWAH to rewind universe to the moment when things gone wrong and change it.
Idk reforged looks cool and all, but the old one had so much more life in it, at least for me.
Music too! the new one feels totally lifeless
Man it's so intimidating the grafics are awesome af but everything else just sucks
Legit, this feels like some intern pet project. Someone hired the most useless, disposable people possible in order to make this game, and then they slapped some expensive-looking art assets over the top to cover their tracks. Ride the hype, use the fandom to its full potential, and then lay waste when it's over.
And then there's going to be a meeting over a table with Activision and Blizzard board members talking about how people clearly don't want another Warcraft. "Look at all the bad reviews. Look at all the refunds. This made zero money. Let's continue making stuff that actually makes us capital instead." And just like that, the RTS genre vanishes. Just like Command & Conquer.
Amen. The music gives it such depths!
@@amiramduby also can anyone tell me how to fix the login problem for reforged I searched the internet and it says I need a CD key which isn't available in my country! Is there any other way
2018 Me: All they have to do is copy and paste, and make it look better... (I thought how could they even screw it up?)
2020 Me: Aaaand they did it, they found a way to somehow screw it up!
That level of incompetence is stunningly stupid. Makes you wanna use that silver instead of good ol' steel eh, sir Witcher.
Geraldo, save us from this meme hell!
The garbage level has upgraded every year ngl
Leave it to blizzard to screw up a (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) game with a remastered version. I wouldn't be surprised to see them remaster Lost Vikings and screw it up like a botched plastic surgery that makes you look like a 28 year old lizard.
@@MrZomfgasauras Bill Burr... is that you?
old one- stylized, quick paced, straight to the point but fully understandable
reforged- long, needlesly choreographed, looks like lazy claymation
Old one - Simple but effective soundtrack and sound design, which adds to the dynamic of the scene.
Reforged - Trying to go back to that Wotlk intro cinematic, failling, leaving a fight scene with a barely present music...
@@gerardlacroix6015 yes a more indepth version of what i said, include that the animations of Reforged looks about par with the old one, which is really not great considering the time gap
Do not insult claymation! It is much worse then it.
Atleast claymation has its charm, the reforged animation looks more like a cheap chinese knock-off
@@theguiltypaytheprice.4899 im not insulting claymation, i like claymation but like verything else there is such a thing as bad claymation and that is what the movement in the cinematic reminded me of
also arthas 3:35 didn't cut off Illidans dick and we know it's canon version
Wow. I always thought the original fight was too short, made Illidan look really weak, had a dumb conclusion, and was annoyed it was only in-game graphics and not one of the amazing cinematics Blizzard was known for. Somehow the proper cinematic version in Reforged looks and flows worse and has a dumber conclusion. This makes me appreciate the original more.
Just here to says that this "proper" cinematic from the Reforged is also used in-game graphics too lol
Shin Orochi Oh you were also spreading false info on other comments as well. Recheck ur facts mate
I agree it is not Blizzard quality. But do not be a like hunter bullshiter sheep lol. We can consider this a fan made version, then everyone will start appretiating it...
These "sheep" that hate reforged are peoole who played the original Warcraft 3. Their opinion is more important than some white knight's defending a failes game.
@@darwinwaterson3961 I've played WC since WCI and to be honest I preferred WCII style over WCIII :D I hated those square looks and the kinda fixed and close camera angles :D But it had its atmosphere and generally it was a great game, which I loved and played through several times. But. You sheeps are terrible. We are not talking about the game itself, only the graphics, which, you do not tell me was better in the original just because you want to belong to somewhere, to the sheeps :D Even if the graphic is not Blizzard level here either.
"You lied to your players and betrayed the Devs that work for you" . What's happening to you Activision?....
-Muradin Bronzebeard.
"Is profits all that matters to you?"
Muradin Bronzebeard
FOR THE BRONZEBEARED
Activision: Spare me Muradin. You weren't there to see what a rack my newest employee has.
For the Gold !!!!!
~ Thrall
When used to be Blizzard 😭😭😭
The weapons in the new cutscene are too bulky - it's because they were going for the WoW aesthetic even though the WoW weapons look like that partially because of engine limitations. But by having Frostmourne look so thick that it's practically a club (compare how it looks here with the WoTLK trailer) and Illidain's glaives looking similarly fat, its a huge contributing factor to the scene looking clunky.
PresidentWordSalad The swords in general have the same aesthetic as BFA’s swords, the footmen weapons look like plastic or those balloon swords you get from a stinky renaissance fair.
Also the armor is way too bulky. But still the old fight was so much faster and looked real.
I fully agree
Its also that Illidan is much more massive than Arthas. Nelfs are tall, but not giants. Why the fight looks so clunky as well because Illidan’s meant to be the fast and agile one, cannot really have that if Illidans a fucken big ass brute.
I am saying this as someone who is studying animation and Vfx- The newer animation is so dull and lifeless, there are almost no emotions portrayed on those faces.
Also the lack of any soundtracks/ost is a huge minus. The old one, while outdated, is a lot more lively and CONSISTENT. The main difference is the consistence in each cutscene.
In the remake, their moves are inconsistent, sometimes they swing faster or slower, there is no impact felt when their blades cross but their BODY LANGUAGE suggests nothing, as to why this inconsistency occurs. The old one is all high phased, even anime like, perfectly comfortable with its choreorgaphy and feeling
I completely and utterly agree with you. However, if they made these animations for all the cut scenes, I doubt as many people would be complaining.
So you're saying WC 2020 is like playing Fire Emblem Three Houses?
No/dampened emotions on their faces is even kinda canon friendly. Arthas is almost an empty shell at that point and illidan is a demon hunter who sacrificed nearly everything he had for power.
Now the rest of the cutscene...
Senate OP for me the biggest problem was the sluggishness of the fight for the new cutscene these are two powerful beings one a demon hunter amped by fel magic the other a death knight with a blade that destroyed entire armies and they move like they are mud up to their knees with strikes that make it seem like they are throwing heavy dumbbells around instead of precise light weaponry
@@tylerulfmann4586 that too
Truth be told fan made machinimas stand on higher level. Even putting music into this was too much for Blizzard
Yeah that seems like a really strange choice. I think they wanted to really show off their fancy sword sound effects
Check out a series called Astartes, it’s a fan made series of videos about Warhammer 40K space marines and it’s so much better then the Reforged cutscenes
JoseBV did a better job than Blizzard at reanimating cutscenes.
For the 2020 they could have at least made Arthas a bit more fluid and not so stumpy, it makes you wonder how it's physically possible for him to beat Illidan when he looks almost paralyzed.
No love was put into this “remaster”. Blizzard has a brilliant track record when it comes to cinematic clips. TF was this
This wasn't made by Blizzard. It was some Malaysian company that was put in charge of the art production for Reforged
The Shinoobi and who made the call to put them in charge? Who paid them to do it? Blizzard. This is a blizzard product.
Ridley Um no it’s not? They weren’t the ones who produced it so it isn’t their product. Sure, it’s their fault for trusting the company but that’s about it. It’s just that everybody loves to bitch and complain over things they have no control over. If you want to hate on the devs, thats fine by me. Just hate on the right people and don’t sound like a toddler doing it
@@Jesus-wp7dg, fr?
Have you seen any expensive cinematic that wasn’t shown during their marketing campaign? That’s right.
18 years later, and they still managed to make the most iconic fight in the franchise look underwhelming and lame.
2:41 That's one hell of a landing. Consider how high he must have jumped in full armor. Arthas should have used his super human jumping abilities more often.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Death Knights had that kind of super human strength/abilities. After all, they are infused with powerfull death magic. But even with that, that kind of landing is plain bullshit "Anime Landing".
that was his weak jump
The importance of good audio and use of music is hugely clear in this.
You'd think someone would actually post-edit music into this or something, but apparently there wasn't even enough time left for the Malaysian audio engineer to give it a look lmao
This felt like one of those dream fights where you can't put strength in your punches. The first time I got that cinematic I felt it was bland, and now I don't.
That smile at 1:02 makes me cringe, it's like when you raise facial animations by 200%
It's like when you don't drop Invincible
I half thought he was gonna say 'nothin personnel kid'
Yeah. The facial animations suck bad. But the rest is not that terrible as sheeps are sheeping about for likes.
@@HunGerMovies
It's not terrible, but it should be amazing this is Blizzard we're talking about they have a very high standard for cinematics that they didn't hit
@@meris8486 That is true, but I was referring to comments which claim that the original ingame cinematics is better, and Arthas looks like a drunk here, when he pretty much looks like on the original cover of The frozen throne expansion lol. Except for the facial expressions, that is kinda cringe.
This is just sad. Mangling a classic for a quick cash-grab? At least make it a cash-grab that lets players create their own damn maps (without calling it your "intellectual propriety").
lol but it is their intellectual property. Gamers are so entitled, even to other people's assets.
@@dtczyk8976 imagine using photoshop and then having adobe claim whatever you made because you used their toolset that you payed for.
@@dtczyk8976 Like Fumoma said. You are not getting it, are you? Imagine writing a whole doctoral thesis in Word or PowerPoint and Microsoft comes in saying that the entire thing is theirs now. Imagine spending years making a game in, let's say, the Unreal engine. Well, it's not your game, right? It belongs to Epic. You did use assets from their engine, didn't you?
@@dtczyk8976 it also means that they cannot allow some maps into a public multiplayer.
@@dtczyk8976 You are hypocrite....
Love how their weapons are weightless yet they still swing like drunk slogs.
Reminds me of of Randy vs Towlie in this last season of South park.
To be somewhat fair to Arthas, he's one of the undead before the campaign even begins. He can't even feel the chill cold of Northrend, let alone the weight of his armor and sword.
Even cartman vs midget far better than reforged arthas vs illidan
Before: fast paced and stylish, every single move is clear and readable.
Now: slow and clunky, can't even see half of their moves.
That's how real armored guys move, slowly.
But yes, the weapon swings were too slow.
@@Gebirges No it's not. Armoured knight were quite fast. Search for Knight running on YT.
@MrFiremagnet the two cutscene was bad but the old one had a reason (lack of time and money) the second haven't any reason
Gebirges armored guys? That’s a really bad excuse. We’re talking about Arthas Menethil wielding Frostmourne. Moving around is not an issue for him...
@@Gebirges lol no it isn't. Plate wearing people have a lot of moveable joints so they were pretty agile.
Everything I could find wrong with this cutscene:
0:53 Illidan lands crouching slightly, but at 0:55 he only straightens his back, and gets into an awkward position
1:22 Too long of a run, either have him closer or cut to him already near Illidan
1:25 Zero, and I mean ZERO weight behind everything, it feels like the weapons are made out of plastic, no, more like paper, just more solid. These are superhuman beings figthting with oversized swords, yet it's like me and the boys fighting with plastic swords.
1:32 Frostmourne gets launched back straight, but somehow starts rotating sideways? And the blade shifts to the left for a moment, which makes no sense.
1:43 Illidan parries Frostmourne, a heavy long sword with extra bulkiness because Fantasy like it's a plastic sword with his equally heavy warblade like it's a plastic sword used by a skinny guy. What happened there shouldn't be possible
1:45 Watch that in slow motion. Arthas is sliding back, on ONE AXIS. He's moving backwards standing still. That's something even an amateur animator wouldn't do unless the camera angle masks it away, but here, it doesn't.
1:52 Slow motion, and then Arthas' head suddenly shifts. Such a move would break your neck
2:32 What the hell is that position?
These are so obvious and easy to improve, for a Triple A company, putting out something like this is disgraceful. I was considering returning to WoW with Shadowlands, but seeing how Reforge turned out, I'll rather put my money else where.
Cool analysis...but wtf does this have to do with WoW ? xD
@@Aztonio Just seeing how much care was put into this, I wouldn't have expected any quality into Shadowlands. Fortunately I was proven wrong with Torghast.
@@katamas832 are you sure abaut that...in these 2 months they managed to ruin thorgast and add 5 or something like that LGBT charactets out of ass. Where the fuck is refund option for preorder?
@@katamas832 A little late but the cinematic wasn't made by Blizzard. It was made by Lemon Sky Studios, which is the company that was in charge of remaking the assets and animations for Reforged
@@Jesus-wp7dg But Blizzard said yes to this crap, don't try to tell us that this isn't their fault
0:00
Arthas: It's time to end the game, once and for all
Blizzard: *proceeds to end the game horribly"
ChrysZxc EksDiPeyMousZxc What, were you expecting them to change the ending of a remaster?
Julio Cesar And destroyed the lore? No thanks. It would have truly ruined it.
Julio Cesar I'm done. You fuckers haven't changed one bit.
Apparently, APPARENTLY, the best way to make a fight scene, is make it last 1 seconds and have a clear and defined winner right from the start, and put zero effort into animation.
Sounds like bullshit flash animation.
Whatever. I know the remastered fight is better, and you all are just being toxic idiots. Didn't you all say Warcraft 3 was far better than World of Warcraft?
And, besides, isn't the point of a REMASTER supposed to mean you UPDATE THE GRAPHICS AND ANIMATION AND NOTHING ELSE!?
@@thefiresworddragon927 First off I hope you realize he didn't talk about the lore and stated the remaster looked like shit. And if you think that current WoW lore is good, think twice about being a true WC fan and oldgen.
@@thefiresworddragon927 Second off, this remastered cinematic was pure bullshit with uneeded pauses and details.
It feels really off the way they swing their weapons around.
EDIT: It's already really weird how blue his tattoos are at least imo.
And they are supposed to be green xD
Honestly i feel that illidan is much better fighter then they showed it here but oh well
@@ivanmarinkovic9681 yeah illidan is a fucking joke in the new one he doesn't even hit Arthas once and fails like a bitch
he's punching with this double bladed swords lol
@@ivanmarinkovic9681 both are better fighter than this new cinematics shows us. It bothers me that illidan growls like in pain when he use metamorph, but in legion he use it easly.
Jesus, someone at blizzard really likes the power slides.
Arthas looks so weird and dopey when he does that little smile before he charges. He legit looks like he has downs 1:00
Maybe a reference to the entire team
@@eafesaf6934 LMFAO
I thought the same, like wtf was that grin.
@@eafesaf6934 I feel like they intentionally put that in there. Could you imagine how hard they're laughing when they put that in there. Just wheezing and cackling so hard they almost pass out and cant believe people are actually buying it
@@eafesaf6934 11 months late but I'M DEAD LMFAOO
Warcraft 3: Reforged *2 drunkards doing roleplay*
Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne *2 great warriors doing their best not to make a mistake*
another bullshiter who sat on the sheep wagon
The only sheep here is you, buddy.
@@darwinwaterson3961 Sheeps are many, I am alone, you are many:D Who says that WC3 original cinematics was epic, and this is shit , well, that is a huge like whore sheep on the wagon :D Facial expression sucked but Arthas looks like almost exactly as on the original game cover :D sheeps
@@HunGerMovies doesnt change the fact that reforged is shit
@Julio Cesar Here comes the "I and my buddies" dude :D Name all of the people agreeing with you pls. I feel like you are alone, and you wanna belong to a group, that is the only reason you jumped on the hate blindly team with false reasoning :D I would not be in your shoes :D Pls contact me when you have your own opinion :D So agree with this statement:
"Warcraft 3: Reforged 2 drunkards doing roleplay
Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne 2 great warriors doing their best not to make a mistake"
You agree that a two pixel WCIII animation was better than the new animated one :D Sure. I told it is nowhere near to Blizzard quality, but saying original Arthas vs Illidian fight was epic, and new is shit is utter bullshit from kids who feel alone :D
Ilidan powers up metamorphosis, 'oh wait I can't throw green flames? Why did I drop my weapons???'
global cooldown
0:15 he doesnt even look to arthas
He's blind what do you expect
hehe
It's a Vitaliy Klichko! Hahaha!)))
@@devourerofnuggets you didnt get the joke did you
@@devourerofnuggets oh I get your joke but its a bad joke
Oh my god, they even managed to ruin the one cutscenes they reimagined. That is so corny, lol.
@Gula Valenzuela ahh yes the classic excuse of: "Try doing it yourself and you'll se how hard it is! Like, just no. I don't need to be a Baker to say that this bread is bad. Just like how i don't need to be an animator to say that the animation is bad.
@Gula Valenzuela But the thing that's still bs argument, like why do i need to become an animator to say that animation is bad, i don't need to become a baker to say that this bread is shit.
@@Amiko_Ami12 He didn't say the bread was bad. He insulted the baker, he said "how could the baker fuck that up, what a fucking idiot". When you insult the fucking baker, you better be able to bake some fine fucking bread.
@Gula Valenzuela nah mate, when you said "you try animating and see how far you get" and "reforged is still in beta tbh" you're just defending a product by deflection. Reforged is not a beta and you saying it's because developers/animators did not have enough time to polish it doesn't make it a beta, you're making it your opinion to say that it's a beta which is a pretty damn stupid way to defend a game.
And what's the point of asking the other person to animate and see how far/better they can do than Blizzard? You're deflecting.
I don't need to be a better developer/animator to criticize how bad they screwed this up just as how I don't need to be a car mechanic to know some dude fucked up their car's engine. Your logic of "I should be able to do better at those areas before criticising" is stupid. We can clearly see how bad the game is and we - the target consumer for this product - can damn well criticize how bad Blizzard and the outsourced developers handled WC3 "refunded".
@@Coralysis2390 what's funny is that the fan-made recreations are pretty god tier compared to reforged lol
Is the new cutscene done in stop-motion? It genuinely looks that way to me :)
Bugmotion, get yours today, wallmart 3.99 special offer
@K according to wiki
“On February 14, 2003, Blizzard announced the first beta test for the game”
Likely around 2002,the scene was done.Plus I cleared campaign around 8 to 10 times and I don’t remember when is the exact year ROC or TFT came out, cause I first played it around 2010.
@K More like mixing Skyrim and Dragonborn.
It looks like they not swing their weapon to fight 😁
Looks like it was made in SFM..
Me: *starts the game*
Also me: "It's time to end the game"
I remember the days when Blizzard released bleeding edge jaw dropping cinematics.
That's right. They have no excuse this time other than to just being lazy and cheap.
I love how Arthas dodges a slash before Illidan even starts swinging.
I really feel that the new cinematic is a bit off. There is not as much "strengh" and "impacts" in their fight... I don't know how to say it. They kinda look like they're faking it. I mean, look at 1:44 in slow-mo, what just happen to Arthas did he just slided back without even being touched ?
Another reason why I said it looks like stop-motion
@@xLetalis Yeah that's so strange. It looks unfinished
holy shit youre right about that, they literally just fucking slid his character model back on a axis, they didnt even make him flinch what the fuck...... As someone who has worked on games, i can tell you either the devs didnt want to do this, or they did want to do it but were so crunched for time they had to rush everything to meet a deadline instead of actually making it great which takes time and money, and with the way the graphics are going, a lot of money to make it not look like a crappy sfm model
And besides animation problems. The fight itself is dull. Arthas is in full plate armor and we know he isn't very fast when he is wearing it (logical, and he doesn't need to because he is a tank) and yet when he loses grip of the sword he manages to run back and get it without getting a single cut from Illidan (one of the fastest warriors in history who is wearing very light armor). Couldn't take the fight seriously after that.
it looks like cosplayers fighting each other
Illidan: trained demon hunter and spent hundreds of years mastering the warglaives, yet still has no concept of attacking at different angles with both or slashing arthas when blocking an attack with 1 of them
I bet they got lazy in the end by making Illidan transform so they don't need to animate him raising his hand with the blade..
@@dizzyheads im preety sure the transformation took more work than the blades
Plot armor destroys all lmao
the old one is much better
you can see illidan is struggling on defense when arthas attack him which make it unable for him to attack using his other blade
new one makes 0 sense
PapiDeHusky Exactly. In the old one, Illidan had to use his right arm to keep himself from falling down. In the new one, Illidan has _nothing_ stopping him from slashing at Arthas when he parries, since he still has his center of balance.
They put more effort into smirking than an actual fight.
That is why folks. Never try to catch the blade of a knife with your palms.
Most boring interaction and fights ever seen
They are supposed to be masters of their own weapon but in this fight, its like kids wielding sticks
Masters of their own weapons and some of the most powerful beings in WC3. Illidan is hyped up to be stronger than any of Archimondes lackeys while Arthas is empowered by Lich King, so you would of expected some anime like battle but nope.
Some of the most powerfull beings, but i could 1v2 both of them with just my fists if they were to fight like that
iamotaru Hah. Guess the community has fallen. They are willing to bastardise their own love to yell at a remake of that very love.
At least the old version had some music going on, reforged just seems so bland
I sort of like that it that it doesn’t have music in there. But the whole thing lacked weight.
Flying Pilgrim I felt the opposite. I felt it had too much weight. Everything felt sluggish when these are meant to be two deliberately overpowered beings. Illidan is a demon empowered elf, he should be fast, graceful, lethal. Arthas is a warrior who has been empowered by the scourge and whose close proximity to the Lich King is undoubtedly strengthening him despite the Lich Kings current weakness.
Yeah they both are practically demigods by this point, but they’re stumbling around like clumsy novices. There’s weightiness but... There’s no POWER behind the weightiness, it’s more like clumsiness. Seriously looks like a low to mid tier UA-cam machinima creation.
@@Sintakhra By lacking weight I think OP ment lacking impact and momentum... When they move they behave as if their movements carry no force behind them... This is also why it feels sluggish and slow
@@MaMastoast Nah, I got what he was referring to :) It lacked the emotional pull, the sense of desperation and determination as one usually reserves for essentially the penultimate cutscene in a game.
Old one: *actually try to hit each other, powerful hits, takes short time as all sword fights should, both combatants attempt to dodge and parry logically, everything is decided with a precise and decisive swing to a surprised, strategically backing enemy*
New one: -nOtHiNg PeRsOnAl KiD
It's literally just swords and blades hitting each other
Like what you tend to do as a kid where you play with "swords" but don't actually hit each other
They're both shit, but the old one has an excuse for being shit
Illidan: *mana burns behind you*
Actually I think the new one did all of the things you mentioned better. More convincing characters, better physics, better movement.
Both are rubbish, neither resemble fighting, nothing logically happens in either. It's just that the first clearly had no professional choreography behind it and looks like something children come up with during lunch.
@@7dayspking gonna have to disagree with you. I found lots of things wrong with the way the new scene was choreographed, and how every swing of their attacks bear no weight starting with Arthas' first attack. It's like he held frostmourne in front of him and just ran towards Illidan until the blades clashed. When frostmourne was thrown and Arthas casually turned his back to Illidan exposing him to a fatal attack and they just casually walked together until Arthas grab the sword? And during the slow motion when Arthas slid, his head moved faster than his body sliding - his head movement has some sort of super speed? Those weren't better character, movement, physics nor was it a better choreography.
While you think the original was rubbish, the scene at least looked like they were fighting for their lives. The dumb part where Illidan flew up? That was because Illidan was showing off as stated in the novel :
“ 'Behold the Twin Blades of Azzinoth, ' Illidan gloated. He flew up higher, whirling the blades in his left and right hands..."
The novel had the fight longer but they were emphasizing that Illidan was pretty cocky during the fight and Arthas saw an opening.
And I know you basically said there's no point in analyzing the logic of the fight but if that was always the case then we'd be seeing a lot of half-assed pathetic fight scenes from prior blizzard cutscenes and cinematics.
The new one looks like 2 toy figures fighting each other
Illidan It is over I have the high ground!
Arthas: You underestimate my power!
It looks really slow, not much impact and weight to blows, and the sound is quite poor. How did they screw this up?
Money...
@@bigbumboyo That would be the why.
@@65firered Absolutely, I just don't what happened to Blizzard, it's a shame. They used to be a great company.
@@bigbumboyo Greed seems to be the downfall of many industry titans in recent years, Bethesda, Rockstar, Bioware just to name a few.
Asset flip
Always remember: When you face a duel wilding enemy and he disarms you, just turn your back to him and go grab your sword, it is def. going to work...as long as god gave ya plot armor. :D
He has good armor for sure. Illidan was just naked so he get 1 shotted.
@@KKKuma i dont think u got it...
A good and creative dev team would have animated Arthas using something like Death Grip to snatch his sword in the nick of time, maybe even using a spell like Howling Blast to put some space between him and Illidan...
A bad and lazy dev team goes for ye olde plot armor!
Also when you already sliced, just turn your back and drop your two bladed weird sword and growls painfully. You will got extra smoke in your body and fly. Ignore the enemy, you protected by blizzard plot armor 😈
Compare to Garrosh Vs Taran zu.
Disarmed? Punch him on the face!
6:30 most epic gaming scene ever
this is for Spanish people:
"SOY ADMIN"
@@jacker2110 XD
SOY --admin-- OWNER
"It must be done!"
it's like Illidan knows he's got no chance against Arthas.
He's too much confident after getting his wings and horns
@@Dread513 still, he isn't a dreadlord like you eh? HAHA
Arthas in the old one looked way more powerful than Illidan.
He was. Right before the fight, the Lich King tells Arthas that he's going to give him the rest of his power in a last-ditch effort to make sure Arthas beats Illidan and gets to the throne before it's too late.
@@sasca854 well from what ive heard, in the actual lore Illidan beats the shit out of Arthas. Which makes a lot more sense then the other way around. Arthas wins with a sucker punch, using a moment of opportunity, rather than outright force. IMO based on the 2 characters, Arthas, specifically at this moment before doning the helm, had not but a glimmer of power in comparison to Illidan
@@Brett77902 true that
@@Brett77902 thats true. in the book that describes the fight more detailed than the short clip shown in WC3, Illidan beats the crap out of Arthas. Illidan at that point is incredibly powerful, and while Arthas got the power backup from the Lich King, the Lich King was extremely weak at that point, because all his power flowed out of the rift in the Frozen Throne.
So Illidan was basically beating and burning Arthas, but when he allowed himself to get too close to finish him off, Frostmourne basically acted on its own for a moment and made an otherwise impossible strike to kill Illidan when he didnt expect it anymore. Illidan survived, but the blade saved Arthas, and thus its master the Lich King himself.
If Illidan was already in front of Arthas, why would he suddenly disappeared and reappeared in the new cutscene. While the old one, they just cut right into the tension and just started off with Arthas' unholy aura buffed sprint. Which is much better obviously.
Even though the old fight-scene is shorter, the whole scene is more dynamic and the physics look more realistic - the impact of the weapons smashing into each other is much more pronounced and can be felt to another degree.
Can we all agree that this video shows how stupid warglaives are as a weapon? Poor Illidan had no chance to land a single blow because hands don't bend that way lol.
Wow. I remember thinking that this cutscene was bad back in the day. How is it possible that, graphics aside, everything else is objectively worse in a remaster 18 years later?
Achieving this takes some real talent.
During the remaster I kept having to ask, "is this real? this isnt fan made?" It feels like a fan made animation, but not in a good way, in the "well uh... you tried I guess?" sort of way.
When the two e-boys on a discord server establish territory.
2:35 Arthas just swung his weapon while running while in 3:32 he stopped his momentum to deliver a much stronger swing. How could the remaster eff'ed this up?
this looks like a crappy animation from a student with his best attempt. I can't even watch the full clip this is so painful.
Nice observation.
If you told me it was made by an amateur who’s starting off, I’d believe it, this was a whole dev team!
When you outsource your product normally you get shitty quality
@@Krelian89 thats not necessarily true there has been a few cases where outsourcing has resulted in great quality. its rare though. but this is not one of those times, like..... at all lmfao. i hope for their sake that the people behind this shit learn from their mistakes and get better. or maybe they dont actually give a fuck and they are just their to earn a buck which seems more likely. zero love when into this "remake"
thats what u get from underpaid and overworked devs
@@TheHappyCatsTail "few" .-.
@@Krelian89 Unless you're Bethesda. Then outsourcing is the only way you make a good game these days... (ESO was farmed out to Korea or similar. That's why it's the only multiplayer Bethesda game that actually works.)
Fun fact there's 1 more swing in the original than in reforged. Really puts things into perspective considering the duration of each
The old one had fast paced and smooth movement, the new one like having 10fps in 4k
1:00 Arthas looks like burnt-out Brendan Fraser.
Also the quality of these animations are about the same as a 5 year old playing with action figures.
He let Arthas pick up that sword? Arthas could have just grown impatient, impaling or castrating Illidan with frost spikes?
Its honestly my least favorite part of the cutscene. He has Arthas so dead to rights and the camera just moves in a way to hide the fact illidan had to just stand there and stare at him. The rest is poorly animated yeah, but thats just such a huge logic fail. Also, metamorphosis is just so weird on illidan, given that he's already a big demon boi. He traded his weapons for what? Being black and shadowy? Frostmourne just cleaved through it anyway. I know when I played it back in 2002, I was disapointed that Illidan wasn't given a different ultimate.
WTF why is Illidan looking away?! LMAO
He cant stand watching how lazy they remastered Arthas face wtfff
Also, the old one made more sense choreographically. Illidan jumped away to avoid arthas but arthas rushed and caught up to him. In the new one Illidan drops his weapon for no reason? and charges straight into frostmourne? god damn blizz
he's blind, not deaf
I know this is not a serious question and it doesn't matter, but technically his magic-detecting energy eyes gives him 360° vision
18 years to make Illidan's defeat even more unbelievable. Good job Blizz.
It's amazing how much even just the *background music* does for the old version.
Is it just me or frostmourn handle extends? Look at 0:46 the grip looks like its for one handed use until he grips it at for two handed in 1:07 wtf blizzard
It's so sad - the original wasn't even a cinematic, it was made useing game engine, so it looked rather... bad visually.
But it had it's soul.
The new one - just nothing. And that Illida's "demon form" - what for?? To show how "strong" is Arthas?
Wasnt even bad considering the year it came out.
The original was a cinematic, it wasn't 'held back' they just didn't have the time, resources or effort to go above and beyond and make a true cinematic.
@@arfirik A lot better stuff in 2002 than that.
@@7dayspking It wasn't a cinematic tho. Cinematics are supposed to be detailed like the original Warcraft 3 trailer . This was merely a cutscene, which is why it used in-game assets.
@@Jesus-wp7dg You're right, it's much lower quality than a cinematic.
Just had to include that roast against Kael, didn't you?
:D Pure accident
That scene sounded straight out of a freaking soap opera. It has the same energy as the scene where two female characters fight over a guy.
2002 won this by a mile. Obviously the gfx is better in 2020 but as with many new games today, the devs focus way too much on crazy gfx and forget many other crucial things.
I mean just that cut on Illidan at 3:35 from the 2002 version is more than 5 times better, deeper and has way more impactful sound that 2020. It's not even close or up for debate.
2020 cut sounds like some space ship just hit Illidan, sigh.
"It is time to end this game... once and for all" - Blizzard
Ironic.
I can't believe they got rid of the clashing noise from the original where the metal starts to do this sort of scraping whining sound. I always loved that about the fight. That and Arthas doing a sort of jump into his upward slash at 3:32 gives the animation a lot of power.
Wow and warcraft lore died with Arthas, you can't change my mind
Man i miss ICC and the raids... If wow would still be at wrath i would go back...
@ I thought they had *potential* with Cataclysm, as Deathwing had been a villain I'd wanted to see again since Warcraft 2...
But then they had him beaten by Green Jesus using the only weapon in all of WoW Lore that literally should be incapable of harming Deathwing.
@ Wrong. Wotlk turned Arthas/Ner'zhul in a cliché villain....
Sad, but true, I miss those days ~ resubbing is like checking in on a best friend who become a drug addict years ago.
TBC had ruined Illidan and Kael'thas already tho.
2020 looks like a fan reimagining of the old one as a side project. good if it was a fan creation... but as official blizzard release...?
"Official" in quotes - they outsorced Reforged to some random Malaysian company.
@@igorthelight ah, that's interesting... but then this is still in collaboration so idk. thought maybe they (blizz) would watch the cinematic first to at least quality check it
Players: we want reforged!
Blizzard: we have reforged at home.
Reforged at home:
Rest in Piece Arthas, one of the Best Blizzard Characters ...
RIP, we know your pain
they actually managed to make this look worse than the old one.
Illidan drops his weapons for no reason then goes Meta and then Arthas flies like a Superman and one shots him.
let's not mention this clunky, lame animation that was done by some amateur when he was bored.
fight in the book is still >>>>>> anything shown in the game.
he uses his ultimate skill metamorphosis which transform him into a monster that's why he dropped the weapon.
@ Yeah but, it's just too stiff and the action dropping them doesn't look like have any impact.
@
I say it's just an excuse to not animate him using his weapons anymore
It's it like he actually even used them in the fight
@@dizzyheads when he transforms himself into a devil, he uses his range attack and doesn't use that weapon anymore. so this action is okay for me
Dont talk like a little arrogant asshole " done by some amateur "
Its maybe lifeless but u can't say that shiiit
This is always a sad scene for any Illidan fangirl, old graphics or new.
Yennefer is an Illidan fangirl?! Guess it makes some sense
@@xLetalis I HAVE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING! WHAT HAVE YOU GIVEN?
@@Yenneffer hah, actually works for Yen's case!
@@xLetalis Especially show Yen, lol.
@@Yenneffer indeed, it's what I had in mind ;]
0:09
Aaaaaaaaaand Illidan is not even facing the right direction
Not even 10 seconds in and you already lost me
well he's blind :D
@@xLetalis hahahaaa
At 1:50, that's where a trained warrior such as Illidan would immediately win - he was swinging, had a momentum he could use to stab Arthas with his second glaive. For some reason, Illidan obviously negated the swinging momentum to stop himself from hitting Arthas...
I hate that some of these modern day developers forget about the [POWER-OF-MUSIC], in video games
This is the best fan cinematic I've ever seen.
6:20 my fav music from warcraft 3
Oh yes!
Sorry, I much prefer the original. I really find the graphics of the reforged not looking good at all. Exaggerated disproportion of characters and armor, terrain more than yuck, the characters are not beautiful at all (my god Arthas is disgusting, put the old one back quickly !!!). In addition, in the cutscene, I have the impression that they move in a "heavy" way. It's not fluid at all.
In short, I stay on the original.
A little brain? ; p
Imagine having the opportunity to recreate one of the most iconic fights in all of Warcraft history... and this is the result.
Ner'zhul: Release me from this prison!
Arthas: tHiS wOrLd iS a pRiSoN!
Illidan had the high ground!
How could that be?!