You forgot to mention that Vypers are extremely good on scoring secondary points. Need to be on 6" on center call a vyper. On the ennemy deployment zone call one (with maybe fire and fade), need to be on 9 of a corner... guess what ?! As you said they are fast and the opponent will sacrifice fire power to shoot at them also they are highly sacrifiable. Good video indeed !
My question is : 1 or 2 vypers in my scout/jetbikes list with an autarch doing the same thing with a squad of 3 jetbikes (auto advance 6). You can have a list with most of your army moving 20 inches lol
Oy, Eldar really burn easy. I had a similar encounter with a squad of sororitas once. You'd think we'd remember how to make nomex. As for the vyper, I never stopped running it as a cheap bright lance/scorer, but my lists are constrained by my collection and what I can get in rural canada.
The problem I have with Vypers is that they try to do too much, a jack of all trades and master of none. The problem is the same with most Eldar units, they are costed as if equipped with the best option, and often the lesser options are simply not worth it. The easiest solution is to change the unit composition to 1 Vyper with Bright Lance, 2 Vypers if not. Even then, some load outs would be too cheap. Another would be to allow non BL Vypers to replace the catapults with cannon. A 3rd option would be to have 2 data cards, 1 with the BL, 1 with the others. Other options would keep the same special rule, but cost 65pts. Those with the BL could have 1 Vyper per shooting phase allowed to use the Fire and Fade stratagem for 0cp, even if already used that turn. I'm thinking the shoot and scoot tactic used by M18 Hellcat tank destroyers in WW2 as a direct parallel here.
Ya I really like those ideas! Unfortunately I think the Vyper got caught up in the BL tax even though it was many being used in competitive lists all that much. Even so I think it has some nice tricks up it’s sleeve which help it play well into certain things and always find a use on the battlefield whereas other unit will sometimes feel like dead weight in the wrong matchup
I think the issue with the Vyper is that apart from the stripping away cover, most roles it fulfills are done better by other things. The War Walker is the better weapon platform and tougher to kill. Having two weapons means they also benefit more from Guide. Nor is the Vyper any easier to hide, as it has a similar profile on the board. Warp Spiders are faster and better secondary scorers with their flickerjump. Yeah 14" is great, but all grav vehicles Eldar has have that amount of movement. Other vehicles do just as well (or poorly, depending on how you look at it) at finessing in that final MW with a lategame tankshock. With how squishy the Viper is, and the compromises it makes for its versatility and utility, it gets outclassed ever so slightly in most if not all fields it's efficient at. And seeing as you can only spend your 2000 points once, I can see why it gets overlooked often in competitive lists. The Vyper is good, it's just not outstanding. And with internal balance being as it is still in our Index, a lot of people will still gravitate a lot towards lists that utilize the same 30% of units that are proven to work the best.
I find that with its versatility it always has something to do in any given turn, whereas including a third war Walker in my list might run into the issue of that model not really doing a whole lot in the late game when my opponent has no more large targets left. Yes there are definitely better options for specific roles but there’s nothing that can quite scratch that itch while being able to survive better against indirect and also Overwatch to get to those areas for secondaries. It’s definitely a model that’s usefulness is hard to quantify on paper
@@jameskurth3560 With the latest points drop for the Vyper I think it's become a bit more attractive. Wouldn't build lists around one, but if you happen to have about 75 points left at the end of making your list, quite a few things would benefit from the ignore cover the Vyper gives. Granted, if I had 110 points left, there are still things I'd pick over a Vyper+ some enhancement to fill those points, War Walker included.
I got 3 vypers since I used to run them in a squad in my army in every list. They got a missile launcher and two Star Cannons. I agree they are more versatile and if you have a balanced out army with a variety of weapons and models that support each other, you can make them work. Also, you make a good point about the twin linked catapults and nobody seems to see that they can come into play with advancing. You can say the same thing with jetbikes but majority think that twin linked catapults are garbage and you need to take cannons.
Ya exactly! Although the same could be said of jetbikes they also want to be shooting for their point cost and low durability and typically at that point you can just go for swooping hawks who do that 5pts cheaper.
@@ProxyHammer1 No worries bud, love the video's and watch them all, first time that's happened 🙂 Oh I particularly love the Corsair videos as I'm working on a Corsair themed army and not many people do Corsair stuff so massive thanks for that 🙂
Very nice video! Definitely a next purchase after a wave serpent, I love how fast the vypers are
They are great!
I've always loved the look of the Vyper, I will definitely be finding a place for one in my 2000 point Biel-Tan army.
It’s an absolutely amazing model and looks really cool!
You forgot to mention that Vypers are extremely good on scoring secondary points. Need to be on 6" on center call a vyper. On the ennemy deployment zone call one (with maybe fire and fade), need to be on 9 of a corner... guess what ?!
As you said they are fast and the opponent will sacrifice fire power to shoot at them also they are highly sacrifiable. Good video indeed !
Thank you and exactly!! I thought I mentioned their power to score on secondary objectives though didn’t I? I hope I didn’t accidentally cut it out!
It was one of the first things he said in the video
My question is : 1 or 2 vypers in my scout/jetbikes list with an autarch doing the same thing with a squad of 3 jetbikes (auto advance 6). You can have a list with most of your army moving 20 inches lol
Definitely! I recently ran a Jetbike list with just that!
Oy, Eldar really burn easy. I had a similar encounter with a squad of sororitas once. You'd think we'd remember how to make nomex. As for the vyper, I never stopped running it as a cheap bright lance/scorer, but my lists are constrained by my collection and what I can get in rural canada.
Oh man it’s a really good idea for scoring against flamer units!
The problem I have with Vypers is that they try to do too much, a jack of all trades and master of none. The problem is the same with most Eldar units, they are costed as if equipped with the best option, and often the lesser options are simply not worth it.
The easiest solution is to change the unit composition to 1 Vyper with Bright Lance, 2 Vypers if not. Even then, some load outs would be too cheap. Another would be to allow non BL Vypers to replace the catapults with cannon. A 3rd option would be to have 2 data cards, 1 with the BL, 1 with the others. Other options would keep the same special rule, but cost 65pts. Those with the BL could have 1 Vyper per shooting phase allowed to use the Fire and Fade stratagem for 0cp, even if already used that turn. I'm thinking the shoot and scoot tactic used by M18 Hellcat tank destroyers in WW2 as a direct parallel here.
Ya I really like those ideas! Unfortunately I think the Vyper got caught up in the BL tax even though it was many being used in competitive lists all that much. Even so I think it has some nice tricks up it’s sleeve which help it play well into certain things and always find a use on the battlefield whereas other unit will sometimes feel like dead weight in the wrong matchup
I think the issue with the Vyper is that apart from the stripping away cover, most roles it fulfills are done better by other things.
The War Walker is the better weapon platform and tougher to kill. Having two weapons means they also benefit more from Guide. Nor is the Vyper any easier to hide, as it has a similar profile on the board.
Warp Spiders are faster and better secondary scorers with their flickerjump. Yeah 14" is great, but all grav vehicles Eldar has have that amount of movement.
Other vehicles do just as well (or poorly, depending on how you look at it) at finessing in that final MW with a lategame tankshock.
With how squishy the Viper is, and the compromises it makes for its versatility and utility, it gets outclassed ever so slightly in most if not all fields it's efficient at. And seeing as you can only spend your 2000 points once, I can see why it gets overlooked often in competitive lists. The Vyper is good, it's just not outstanding. And with internal balance being as it is still in our Index, a lot of people will still gravitate a lot towards lists that utilize the same 30% of units that are proven to work the best.
I find that with its versatility it always has something to do in any given turn, whereas including a third war Walker in my list might run into the issue of that model not really doing a whole lot in the late game when my opponent has no more large targets left. Yes there are definitely better options for specific roles but there’s nothing that can quite scratch that itch while being able to survive better against indirect and also Overwatch to get to those areas for secondaries. It’s definitely a model that’s usefulness is hard to quantify on paper
How does the vyper stack up against your second warwalker?
@@jameskurth3560 With the latest points drop for the Vyper I think it's become a bit more attractive. Wouldn't build lists around one, but if you happen to have about 75 points left at the end of making your list, quite a few things would benefit from the ignore cover the Vyper gives.
Granted, if I had 110 points left, there are still things I'd pick over a Vyper+ some enhancement to fill those points, War Walker included.
I got 3 vypers since I used to run them in a squad in my army in every list. They got a missile launcher and two Star Cannons.
I agree they are more versatile and if you have a balanced out army with a variety of weapons and models that support each other, you can make them work.
Also, you make a good point about the twin linked catapults and nobody seems to see that they can come
into play with advancing. You can say the same thing with jetbikes but majority think that twin linked catapults are garbage and you need to take cannons.
Ya exactly! Although the same could be said of jetbikes they also want to be shooting for their point cost and low durability and typically at that point you can just go for swooping hawks who do that 5pts cheaper.
I find a place in my army for 1 vyper as I have 3 with different layouts.
Nice man! Got to love them!
I have 6. It's dissapointing they can't squadron anymore. The twin surikin cannons are gone too.
How many adverts! 6 and counting and only just over half way through
Wow that’s crazy… sorry man there’s really very little I can do about that UA-cam controls how many ads show up when videos get monetized 🫤
@@ProxyHammer1 No worries bud, love the video's and watch them all, first time that's happened 🙂 Oh I particularly love the Corsair videos as I'm working on a Corsair themed army and not many people do Corsair stuff so massive thanks for that 🙂
My pleasure i loved running a corsair themed list! very fun and there are so many cool coverting options!@@richardloveday5761