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I am skeptical that the military/civilian ambiguity will bear any meaning once a war breaks out. If the ships of Chinese maritime militias do not distinguish themselves as military (especially during peacetime) and the CCP can impress vessels with little notice, then any Chinese flagged ship becomes a legitimate military target during war.
This is the case in war. All belligrent nation vessels (including cargo vessels) are legitimate military targets, unless marked with a Red Cross symbol. This happened in WW2 where Allies & Axis attacked each others merchant shipping.
@@wiryantirta Free for all hunting for every American ship also sounds fun for the japs, until the US started building like a thousand aircraft carriers per year. Maybe go check the morden ship industry capabilities of some major countries first
@@wiryantirta Bro if China cease to exist, even without a fight, everything you buy would prob. be 20-100+% more expensive. They make the device you post with ya know
RoRo ferries are very easy to sink. In the nautical world, they're nicknamed "roll-on, roll-over." They're highly susceptible to bad weather and load shifts, and it takes HOURS to lock down all the vehicles and cargo. While a few could make land and get combat vehicles to shore, a well-trained navy or coast guard pretty much guarantees that the threat from RoRo ferries is just about zero... Edit: Speaking to the legal ambiguity, we should remember that there are no rules in war, on victors. If I were a Taiwanese naval officer and my country was officially at war with China, I don't think a single CCP flagged ship would make it within 5 nautical miles of shore. Sort it out later, after the dust settles.
I don't think they will fare well when a torpedo or a anti-ship missiles rams into them. More Chinese troops killed per missile is an advantage for Taiwan. Firing on "civilian" vessels in a non-issue during a hot war.
At that point (official war declaration) I think we're past the point any kind of deception being useful. This is, I think, for the escalation phase of the war, when things are ambiguous and there are still diplomatic talks happening (though in using these, probably not for long). As for the ease of sinking, I'll take you on your word for it. There's a lot of compromise that goes on to making a convincing decoy.
What? I've served on the LHA-6, an amphibious warfare ship. it takes hours to chain down cargo and vehicles on these kinds of ships as well. your point is pointless.
The famous cruise ship QE2 also played just as vital a role in the Falklands War. Using her great size and speed, QE2 transported the main British land fighting force to the other end of the globe before the South Atlantic winter closed in, which would have made retaking the Falklands impossible. No big deal at all.
@@Kamome163 The Brits got in a lot of trouble during the falkland wars for using civilian airships for covert military purposes. I'm Uruguayan, we allowed teh British to use a Uruguayan hospital to treat their wounded under the condition that British planes landing in Uruguay were not allowed to carry weapons, but they got caught trying to do so anyway, squandering international humanitarian good will and even putting their own wounded at risk! Never again
@@SunriseLAW He's saying the UK used civilian ships to supplement military ones also. It's a valid point and an example of when it happened in a real world scenario.
@@SunriseLAW British lost 225 KIA. 2 destroyers sunk, 2 frigates sunk, 1 landing ship sunk, 1 landing craft sunk, 1 container ship sunk. 24 helicopters and 10 fighter jets were downed. Seems like the Argentinians were able to do a lot of damage with zero ability.
Reminds me of how the S.S. United States (One of the fastest ships ever built) was also designed like a warship, free of wood fittings and near completely fire-proof. In order to be to be converted into a troop transport for an entire division in the case of WW3. Sadly, with the rise of airliners and fall of oceanliners we are near losing this engineering gem.
Why do you need it. Even aircraft carriers. They are huge, slow, and vulnerable. The carrier has yet to face a willing and competent adversary in the era of nuclear attack submarines, air launched cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles.
@@calvinnickel9995 Hey dork, that's because nearly ALL the carriers that EXIST belong to the US, and the US HAS no "competent" adversaries, least of all China.. As for cruise missiles", ever heard of "kamikazes"? Sure they're dangerous, but they're not bulletproof. Nor are subs, especially since we have more of them and better ASW systems. And a ballistic missile can't hit a moving target. In short, no, we don't expect zero casualties, we expect a WAR.
You did not mention that the US Navy’s San Antonio Class has accommodations for marines, a 124 bed hospital, mess facilities and repair facilities and support for landing a assualt brigade along with self air defense. It has facilities for the Osprey V-22, helicopters and so much more.
As a US merchant sailor who's been getting increasingly more interested in maritime intel and that sort of stuff, especially after sailing around the SCS/ECS and the Western Pacific - this is a great video, nice work man. Never really thought of retrofitting Ro-Ro's to launch AAVs at sea, definitely an interesting concept and I'm curious to see if it would actually be a viable strategy if things kick off.
Hey Tom! Super cool profile pic and great videos! You just got one more subscriber! 🤩 Thank you so much, yeah I was also surprised when I saw the pictures of AAV being launched from commercial RoRo. If you scroll down in the video description you can find the sources I used for my research and there are a few which provide actual satellite images of RoRo involved in amphibious exercises. If you scroll a even bit more down you find the link to our secret Discord where you’re more than welcome to join! 😉
Obviously, you have not heard of "Club K" cruise missiles on innocent looking ship containers with antenna and controlled by settlelite. Of Russian origin and used by PLA.
@@simroysten7963 I actually just started seeing posts about Klub-K today - another interesting gray area strategy for the PLAN for sure. I don't think we have anything similar currently. I do remember some proposals about putting remote-operated VLS cells aboard T-AKE class auxiliary/logistics ships but as far as I know nothing ever came of that as it would change their non-combatant status.
Great video! I work on a lot of PCC/ RoRo vessels for work (I unload and load them at my local port) be that they are a dofferent style ship, it is the exact same concept. Funnily enough, at around 3:10 when all the trailers and rendered in to look like a human has parked them... kinda looks inaccurate hahaha. You would be suprised how accurately cars etc. are parked, both when we receive them from asia etc. and when we load them ourselves. This is because you have to be pretty strict to fit as much as you can in. Sometimes when getting a vessel to unload, it looks scary unreal how perfectly straight the rows are, its wild! Just cars get parked with one spotter lining you up perfectly, let alone trailers and larger vehicles which would include 3 or more spotters at times each! Just a funny little quirk, and finally somewhere I could share a tiny spec of information of something I have up close experience with.
02:36 - "These ships are equipped with multiple access ramps, usually with one at the stern and one at the aft of the ship." uh . . . the "stern" means the back end of the ship. "Aft" means . . . towards the back end of the ship. So . . .
While animating maps from different perspective is cool, may I suggest you for the most part keep it in a roughly ‘up is north’ orientation? Alternative perspectives just takes a few seconds for one to understand what’s going on and the thought process is a bit distracting from the main content.
@@Kamome163World knows when america desperately cries for democracy and freedoom of that country or region what will happen to that region take for example afaganostan,iraq,Libiay😂😂😂Even usa has never said taiwan is a country but the amount pf poeple supporting it really is a shock😂😂Bro they are like in civil war that never ended ..Sayinh china is gonna invade taiwan is like asuimg usa will overthrow and overkill hawaians kings and their ruler to setup their Own form of government wheather people want it or not
its always good for your image to appreciate the people that made war and occupied india, invaded falklands, invaded china to occupy and sell opium, you know, all that stuff that is written in history. they care about you bro, trust them.
As a merchant navy sailor (deck officer cadet), on my previous ship we encountered many Chinese fishing boats in the Indian Ocean some as far as South of Madagascar. They have been hoovering up the world's oceans for years. Their incredibly bright lights were clearly distinguishable from around 30 nautical miles away through my binoculars on my night time navigational watches, and illuminated the night sky like the Moon. We also had to steer around them at times given fishing boats often congregate where ships often go (we weren't in any TSS/shipping lanes at the time either). With regards to the Ro-Ro ferries being used like this, it is an interesting development but not all that surprising either given some Ro-Ro ferries are already under military charter around the world such as most of the Point Class Ro-Ro ferries here in the UK. The line between civilian shipping and military shipping also being blurred in previous conflicts, including with the likes of the so called "unrestricted" submarine warfare during WW2 where only hospital ships and ships of neutral countries were illegal to target given their clear identification as either (as remains the case today). Also, as already mentioned large, high speed civilian ships (usually ocean liners) have made the key difference to past conflicts such as Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth shortening WW2 with their troopship work alone, including Queen Mary still holding the record for the most people carried by any ship ever of over 16,000 troops on one voyage and as already mentioned QE2 (a ship I grew up sailing on as a child passenger) transporting a large number of our troops south to the Falklands including most of the Gurkhas who the Argentines were terrified of. However, it should be noted that some of these ocean liners were built with military use in mind (for example, Mauretania and Lusitania being designed as Armed Merchant Cruisers in event of war with reinforced areas on deck for mounting naval guns) and/or with government subsidies that enabled their construction in the first place with at least troop ship use in mind in a time of need (SS United States being yet another example). Some of these ocean liners also only stayed in service due to government subsidies (SS United States being an example of this too). Furthermore some of these ocean liners (usually the largest and fastest of their time) were the nation's "ship's of state" being the best that nation could create so usually lending themselves, in this way alone, to serving their respective nations in time of war with propaganda and morale components also coming into play. Finally, I doubt today's cruise ships will be involved in the same manner in a future conflict given they are not built with military use in mind at all, and given the nature of warfare has changed even since 1982, not to mention the ownership of today's cruise ships is not as straightforward, let alone the registries of these ships - making requisitioning them more complicated at the very least.
@@steveeddy6876 the Taiwanese also know that their economy depends on the mainland - and increasingly they are aware of facts like that in the US wargame for Taiwan it says that if China does not destroy industry/infrastructure the US will. And they don't really fancy becoming another Ukraine
PLA Navy also operate their own "cruise ships" which were designed to keep up with carrier groups and house ~3000 personnel for prolonged period. It was previously used for crew rotation during carrier training (so they could train 3-4 sets of crew with 1 training carrier), but could certainly be used as troop transport if the need arise, and take a lot more than 3000 if the trip is short. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daguan-class_troopship
Taiwan strait are pretty much too shallow for submarine operation, and you have to know that this ship would be in convoy and escorted by multiple destroyer
Those transports would be traveling from destinations outside the strait as he showcases in the beginning of the video. Shallow water does complicate things as well but its not preventive and Taiwanese subs would be in the strait regardless.
The problem is taiwanese sub are too few and outdated, they only have four conventional diesel sub and two of them are from ww2 era submarine, so their submarine capability isnt that great
@@JoelCorrente You are being too optimistic. Subs operating in shallow water don't stand a chance against air surveillance, destroyers and corvettes. What will be worse is China will definitely mine the access to the Straits on both sides. And these RORO will be used after Taiwanese defences have been destroyed. And it would be too easy to put a couple of HQ17 air defences system on the RORO, even if I don't think it would be necessary with China's air and sea dominance over the straits.
There is no way there would be any confusion or ambiguity about these ships’ purpose if war did break out. Taiwan would be fighting for it’s very existence and the existence of everyone on the island, any ship of this size sailing in their direction would be fair game immediately. They are not gonna wait around asking for every ship to identify itself, if you know the Chinese could use this tactic, believe me the Taiwanese also do.
Any ship carrying troops into a battlefield would be a legitimate target even if it is flagged as a civilian ship. In fact disguising military ships as civilian ships can be considered a war crime as it puts actual civilian ships at risk of being targets. That said I could see China mixing in actual civilian ships full of actual innocent civilians who would be rerouted into the theatre of battle once the operation started. This would also be a war crime but make it more difficult for the defenders. Especially if they load part of the top decks where vehicles are visible with civilian vehicles to disguise them from visual identification. That said, cruise and anti-ship missiles would make short work of these, especially if they are full of munitions and fueled vehicles, and could be targeted to individual ships tracked from ports where they were loaded. Keep in mind they would not be the vanguard of any attack despite the offshore unloading capability because they would be a sitting duck for shore batteries and even mobile artillery responding to the landing area. Taiwan has F-35s and other capable fighters and will easily be able to maintain at least a tactical advantage in the sky and allow attacks on any ships attempting to unload troops offshore. Unless they planned on unloading 20+ miles out to sea, it would be ineffective. The idea that they would be able to approach unnoticed and effect a surprise landing is also unlikely as the use of spy satellites and the very real use of sympathetic ground based observers (spys). These assets would be able to identify the loading of a large amount of military vehicles and personnel onto them long before they ever left port. Even staging for such an action would take weeks of preparation (if not more) and give Taiwanese defense forces plenty of time to prepare. Then there is the mining of any port approaches, denying the use of them. Add the overwhelming capabilities of the US Rapid Dragon Launch System and only a small percentage of these would ever be able to unload their troops. Then once onshore they would still have to fight through a heavily motivated, western armed and trained resistance force while most of their own reinforcements and logistical supplies are being destroyed before ever making it to the island. If most of these ferries are lost in the initial wave, as I suspect they will be because even the empty ones leaving will be targeted, then China will have no way to do this again, making mount a second attack impossible if this one stalls or fails outright.
So you mean, PLAN and PLAAF all drink cup'o coffee and watch these ships struggle on the sea? I can fully understand that Americans imagine what the war would be looks like sinking a somali pirates boat.
@@seraphimworms899 Ah, yes, the PLAN and PLAAF...they are very scary are they not? We hear a lot about all their big scary new toys that will put the USA on the back foot but the reality is all their technology is basically stolen tech from Russia. Evben their hypersonic missiles they threaten the USN's CAs with can be easily neutralized by taking out their guidance satellites. Their own new big carrier is sitting in at dock with a crack in the hull so big it looks like the rear end of the ship is going to fall off. PLAN does not have a true blue water navy and the PLAF has a limited number of stealth capable fighters (and that is being kind). Let's be real here, how many battles has the PLA actually fought, outside of those against its own people or immediate neighbors? I will even let you count the war with clubs in the Himalayas against India... You make it sound like the PLAN has been out on the ocean fighting naval battles day and night. Who have they fought? The USN actually has run wartime operations with its assets, most notably the carrier task forces. The USA has been honing it warfighting edge every year for the last 30+ years fighting real battles. The only way the PLA gets a beachhead is through a total surprise attack and without any response from the USA. It isn't going to happen. The USA already has multiple bases in the Philippines and at least one other island east of Taiwan, outside China's reach, so threats against the Carrier fleet are moot. China will be fighting Taiwan, the USA, Japan, S.Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Australia. All nations that China has threatened, bullied, stolen from, and infringed upon their territory and all of them have sworn to defend Taiwan if China tries to invade it. It is also likely that India takes the opportunity to lash out and retake their territory in the Himalayas while it is distracted with this debacle it created.
Taiwan does not have F35. They do have F16, Patriots, and Harpoon missiles though. Civilian ships could be used for a surprise attack and there are ways to disguise a troop build-up.
@@bjornholmsen8694 Correct, they do not have the F-35s, but there are plenty pledged to the defense of the island from Japan, S.Korea, and the multiple US bases nearby. Although they were seeking to buy the JASM cruise missiles and those would be very effective and a lot cheaper than the F-35s if they were to get their hands on them. You can disguise a small troop buildup but it takes hundreds of thousands to invade an island like Taiwan and just the logistics companies alone getting ready to deploy would set off alarm bells around the world and give weeks of warning. This is not 1945, the USA has full satellite coverage of the region that can see and monitor all of these troop movements. And just like with other hostile nations, the USA watches China all the time.
unless its a drone, it aint hard to convert ya know (Opps , no conversion needed ).. ships are auto pilots most of the time..ya just keyin Way Points.. and it'll steer it self LoL. and ya just wasted ya SINK BOMB and most probably ya precious F16 too
Ita actually a brilliant idea. Forget silly folks thinking about "misidentification, disguise as civilian bla bla" this ship will work as ferry, racking cash in peacetime and transport at wartime. Capable of being deployed in numbers without the PAIN of losing cash during peacetime. True show of Chinese attrition preparation and business mentality!
the british used cargo ship to launch and land harrier jet during the falkland war. the british also used civilian ships to evacuate allied troops in dunkirk during ww2. civilian ships and ship building capability is a huge asset in war. the americans also built 2700 liberty ships to supply europe in ww2.
in event of war with taiwan,china PLA` will be protecting these roros with submarines,drones,corvettes,missile boats, coast guards vessels,anti submarines helicopters,attack helicopters and fighter jets
like most reds- it is more about numbers than protecting the people who make up the numbers. so the benefit is carry weight and numbers without building exp. military assists- at the massive loss of any protection.
@@ItsJoKeZ true. It's so American to think that lives of the soldiers is of any concern to the Chinese generals. All they care for is the objective to be reached and if it takes a toll on the soldiers and machinery to achieve that goal than that is an acceptable solution. In war quantity often turns into quality.
As stated in the video, these ships don't need to sail into active conflict zones to be useful. They can relieve pressure on warships that might have had to transport units out of theater. They can exert pressure simply by existing. And again, as stated in the video, let's say war starts and this ship is sailing 100kms from Taiwan. Should Taiwan shoot? What if it was all civilians? You may say it's ambigious and "deserved to get shot at" or whatever, but it'll be terrible optics and optics is hella important to a small country that needs international assistance.
@@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022 Don't forget, Taiwanese people are Chinese. They don't give a F just like Mainland Chinese don't give a F. It's only the Western snowflakes that stand around wringing their hands and biting their nails about killing a few civilians. Taiwan will sink anything in the strait.
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Amphibious landings on Taiwan are extremely difficult. Taiwan has few beaches, and they are heavily fortified. The coast is rocky and steep in most places. China would need to defeat these coastal defenses _before_ they could land troops on beaches amphibiously.
It’s an island, they will simply block it and within weeks you’ll see how live will change in Taiwan no reason to land on it until they get invited from the large Population that is already Pro China (see last local elections)… Taiwan is nothing with China, that’s why it is also part of China whether you or your warmongering caretaker in Washington like it… you caretakers are probably not allowing to do your own research but common sense should tell you that Taiwan can only loose.
All defense installations in Taiwan would be hit with missiles and drones in a saturation strategy especially near the landing zones. Then a naval blockade would be enforced. Only then an amphibious landing would commence. This ain't Normandy bruh.
Interesting. A year ago I looked into dual purpose ro ro cargo ships and only one was identified. Ocean going ferries could be an adaptable vessel, too but I wonder if conversion and operation would really that simple to execute an amphibious landing without all sorts of things going wrong. And, of course even if seaworthy it would take somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 hours to traverse the strait in ideal weather conditions, maybe a bit longer with a very full load. Possibly for the last hour approaching the island, the ships could be under heavy attack from all types of wwepons from shoulder fired AT missiles like the Javelin to ordinary artillery firing ordinary or maybe even guided shells and everything else you can imagine. The point is that an amphibious ship can be stopped right up to maybe 20 feet (maybe more) of the water's edge and the landing would be considered a failure. You'd also have to wonder how reliable or operational an improvised ramp like what was described in this video would work in a real world scenario. Something like a modified ramp would be something I'd want designed to the high standards of the US, and would be jittery about China's design standards. But, who knows? Maybe Chinese invading troups could get lucky and not experience any problem.
Excellent, you gave a realistic view of the immense difficulties of any amphibious operation. Anyone who has visited Omaha Beach, would know that one crew of Germans in a very strong bunker wreaked havoc on the US landing force with an anti-tank weapon. The Taiwanese manufacture many of the most sophisticated microchips in the world which causes me to ask what else they might have manufactured. The two hundred plus mountain peaks over 3,000 meters are stronger than any weapons in the Chinese arsenal including nuclear. The old adage about not underestimating your enemy applies in every military confrontation. The US military landed unopposed in Okinawa and then suffered immense loses from a well protected Japanese Army. And then there were the Kamikaze! The Japanese Navy never expected to get stopped by destroyer escorts and PT boats against their battle force of capital ships. The Japanese regiment that attacked the Marines on Guadalcanal never anticipated the heroic actions of Medal of Honor recipient Sgt. John Basilone. The Germans obliterated much of Stalingrad but in the end they failed to achieve the objective. One never knows what unforeseen event will unravel the best laid plans. Midway Island should have been a easy victory on paper, but in turned into a tide turning defeat. You just never know.
very uneducated to think today is 1945. china will never send any ship before sending thousands missiles to disable any defense system the island have.
Great point there. I agree those ships don’t stand a chance in actual combat situations but could still be useful in sealift operations and in launching and recovering AAVs. On the ramps there’s an article which I used for the research of this video that goes more into details on it jamestown.org/program/ramping-the-strait-quick-and-dirty-solutions-to-boost-amphibious-lift/
Jittery abt CHINA DESIGN STANDARD?. LoL.. China shipbuilding is at if not at leading edge of shipbuilding mate. International Classification Soceity makes sure of it. Chinese built ships are all sailinf over the world .
@@kentershackle1329 You’re right about that and we didn’t question it in the video. The main focus related to shipbuilding is on the military standards which specific vessels have to be built with.
I'm trying to understand, no one else have counted these commercial ships?.. I mean in military they always use civilian logistical assets so why Chinese civilian logistical assets such as commercial airliners and ships were not considered as potential military equipments?
It *is* considered a possible military asset - as the video says, Taiwanese forces track their movements. I'm sure the Japanese, Koreans and Americans do too. US sub surface warfare capability is still leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.
I don't understand why this has been highlighted as some sort of devious and extraordinary practice, because it's not. Commercial vessels designed to military specifications have been around since WWI. China requiring registered ROROs to follow standard specifications is just the latest evolution in merchant naval capabilities. The video doesn't provide adequate context on merchant navies and why they became practical in wartime, nor does it explain why China can incorporate ROROs into their military sealift capacity. If you think about it, such capabilities provided by merchant navies are only possible when a nation maintains the linkage between its civil and military industries, has a strong manufacturing sector, and achieves near vertical integration of its supply chain. Very few nations today can claim these three characteristics, and China is one of them. The media hubbub behind this development shows a disconnect in Western narratives. On the one hand they push the idea that the Chinese took Western jobs which resulted in unemployment, poverty, and increased crime rates across the West. On the other they push the idea that the Chinese people are not overall living better lives than they were 20 years ago, that all the numbers and academic reports coming out of China tracking its enormous improvement in living standards and poverty alleviation are false. Then comes in the news that Chinese commercial RORO ferries are not only being co-opted for military use, but that they are being *designed* for military use. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either China has the wide array of civilian industries and prowess which indicate advanced infrastructure and well-educated citizens, or they haven't outcompeted Western labour on cost and efficiency.
Ordinarily, commercial ships don't support offloading to the ground like beaches. Ro ro ships ordinarily offload and onload to a dock. Ships that aren't ro ro need cranes to offload or onload. That's why ro ro ships might be considered usable to support resupply to a captured port but not as part of an amphibious landing to a beach. Apparently the Chinese are attempting to modify some of their ocean going ferries to offload to a beach.
@@tonysu8860when you were using commercial assets unit you do need lots of support activities such as ground servicing for aircrafts in a proper airport or dock facilities for commercial ships. Military assets are meant to secure those airports and docks in the first place so that in the later supply runs where larger number of logistical transport assets are required The military vehicles do not become too strained. Heck , UK won the Falklands war with proper utilizing marchant navy for supply chain. We often see c5s and C-17 transporting American soldiers but what we do not see is Pan am (desert Storm reference) airliners also doing the same thing, called civil reserve air fleet CRAF.
Thank you for covering RO/RO ships as an instrument of war. I consider them second wave transports. First wave would be one way container ships that could dump millions of tons onto an unsuspecting shore.
Don't forget their militarized fishing trawlers designed for ramming and sinking other ships that essentially have small-arm proof hulls and can drop off 50+ infantry each, having several hundreds to a couple thousand available, while Taiwan doesn't even have 1000 missiles capable of engaging ships and suddenly the PRC can drop 50k+ infantry on the first wave if they want to commit to beach-ramming these ships ashore.
@@hypersonichobo4263 because 100 km is exactly how far the mainland is I'm sending a missile directly to the mainland would activate it's missile defense system which has more missile capacity than the rest of the world combined not to mention the fact that they use in training enough missiles that puts the rest of the world supply to shame annually
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Sauf qu'il faut diviser ces chiffres par 3 : corruption communiste classique.... Plus d'apparences (et de trolls) que de réelles capacités.
An interesting fact: Both Taiwan's and China's constitutions state that the land consists of the mainland and the island of Taiwan. Therefore, legally, the two regimes belong to the same country. Just because of the civil war split into two regimes, no international treaty defines Taiwan as an independent country. This is just a legacy of the Chinese Civil War, and this civil war has not signed any armistice agreement from 1946 to now. In other words, the two sides of the strait are still in a state of war, only a ceasefire.
The problem is that Taiwan has f3w beaches suitable for landing armies and I suspect that the current occupants of Taiwan may do their best to discourage such activities.
@@sanriosonderweg You mean Russia's meat grinder? But yes, Ukraine should never have given in to pressure to give away they nuclear weapons regardless of how much Clinton insisted. When you have aggressive neighbours nukes seem to be a requirement for neutrality
Next @Kamome163 should address the issue of container ships hiding DF-21 launchers inside cargo containers. They will also be used in a hypothetical invasion.
Literally everybody has "Civilian ships designed for rapid conversion to military use". In WW1/2 the royal navy required all British Liners to be built to support the emplacement of various defence weapons in time of war. This made it easy to arm ships for defense against Raiders or as merchant Raiders themselves.
“These ships have multiple access ramps. Usually one at the stern and one at the aft” Check your nautical terminology. Both refer to the back of the ship. Stern is the back of the ship on the outside. Aft is the back of the ship on the inside.
Two months before Russia invaded Ukraine, the US Government started to sound the alarm that the invasion was imminent. Putting enough logistics and personnel together to launch a successful invasion would be almost impossible. Once you know it is coming, a ferry is a great target. Monitoring the whereabouts of the ferries is easy and monitoring for a buildup of men and machines is easy. I am not saying China may not try it, but I am sure that they can't do it by surprise, and I believe that it will turn into another protracted conflict that will damage China far more than they may realize.
Out of all of the things I could have thought about for how china would send troops and equipment to Taiwan, the last thing on my mind was Civilian Transport boats (which probably should have not been the case) it's honestly mind boggling to think that china is actually making a ton of these boats to prepare for such an invasion of Taiwan. But then it's important to remember that china subscribes to a doctrine known as Unrestricted warfare which means that anything can be used as a weapon for the CCP. China's fishing fleets that sail around the world as well as cause disruptions in the South China Sea are a good example of this. Great video as always Kamome, love how you brought up such an unspoken tool that china is preparing to use for future warfare. And I can't wait for you to make a video on Latin America!!!! I think that and Africa are the only two places you haven't talked about yet so I'm desperately waiting for one of them 🤞.
You basically forgot that civillian merchant fleet are play important rule in combat in ww2, So ita not a suprise that china will use roro ship for their amphibious landing
@@Fauzanarief-n7i Just to add, the Royal Navy also used merchant ships during the Falklands War. Even the Coalition Force led by US duting the Gulf War also used a lot of Merchant ships.
Ro-Ro still need some level of "finished" landing point. They are not capable of launching amphibious vehicles while at sea. I like the "off-handed" manner the narrator describes making the 3-4 hour transit across the Straight (particularly if it's contested). Having a Ro-Ro capable vessel is important for the logistical follow on...but first the PLA/PLAN will have to seize and secure a viable port facility.
Or bring a port facility with them, as was done at Normandy. If a land AND air beachead is established, the RoRos could be offloaded by cargo amphibs. Drive a dozen vehicles onboard, throw load within the relative safety of the dry cargo bay, and then send them back. The ballasting operation would be complicated thorugh, and the air beachhead would have to be of considerable given the ranges of modern and near future ASMs. It's one of those 'theoretically could, probably shouldn't in practice' situations. Much like china's invasion of Taiwan.
@@anticarrrot I hate to break it to you but what you're suggesting can't be done. Ro-Ro can not "off load" to another vessel afloat for basically the same reasons they can't launch amphibious vehicles. Secondly, the "Mulberry" was constructed after a successful amphibious landing. The Chinese don't have the amphibious lift capacity to get enough troops to shore to conduct an amphibious landing. Everything about the Normandy Landings would have been a disaster if attempted today against even a moderately armed opponent. Any discussion of a PLA/PLAN/PLAAF assault on Taiwan is merely in the long term planning stage...maybe three to five years away. Keep in mind that Germany had no naval or air presence at Normandy and that the allies not only had a 10:1 numerical advantage in troops but had uncontested air superiority as well as a extremely experienced Navy conducting the landings...also the allies had the opportunity to "practice" multiple times at North Africa, Sicily and Italy...to work out the kinks before attempting Normandy.....so Nope, it ain't happening anytime soon.
@brianfoley4328 Dude, look up the meaning of 'if'. RoRos built to mil spec, as these ones allegedly are, absolutely could be built for deployment/recovery at sea, depending on the extent of the modifications. Frankly the biggest difference between vehicle deck and well deck is the intention of the design team and door width. I agree the idea is very silly, but saying it can't be done, as opposed it shouldn't be done, is equally silly.
@@anticarrrot I suspect you don't know much about R0-Ro, and that's okay, but "mil spec" or not...Ro-Ro are not set up to transfer ship-to-ship at sea and they are definitely not set up to off load amphibious vehicles while underway.
A Chinese man, with a strong Chinese accent, seemingly introduces Chinese threats from a Western view, but actually proudly propagates China's successful military power. You can do it honestly, I will agree with you, so you haven't to be an internet troll.
Those can be taken out fairly easily by unmanned surface naval vehicles though. You don't need torpedoes, subs, or missiles to take them out if they are used offensively, they are vulnerable to asymmetric warfare and need a good escort
This whole concept presupposes that Taiwan will just sit there doing nothing while 1000 RoRo ships are mysteriously headed their way for the first time ever, with radio silence. You'd need to be as dumb as that wrestler where Bugs Bunny hands him a big slingshot and then pulls back on it and grabs a boulder, loads it into the slingshot, and then lets it go right into your face. That's pretty stupid.
Most modern warships even frigates and destroyers can be destroyed with a single antiship missile. See HMS Sheffield of farmland war. The way modern warships are built, they rely on not being hit.
All defense installations in Taiwan would be hit with missiles and drones in a saturation strategy especially near the landing zones. Then a naval blockade would be enforced. Only then will an amphibious landing commence under naval defence cover. This ain't Normandy bruh. There will be immense recon and surveillance.
RoRo ships are deathtraps. Most of the major incidents at sea in the recent past involve such ferries. They don't have enough bulkheads so damage spreads really easily.
And that doesn't even account for the heavy lifting they would be doing in the military capacity. AFVs, tanks, supplies, all of that weighs a lot more than passenger cars and travellers with some commercial trucks thrown in. They are dangerous enough without being shot at by any weapon system.
You guys missed the point. The fact that it's a 'civilian' ship means it's a huge political risk to declare open season on them. (Not saying they won't or they shouldn't). Imagine for example that China ensured that even a few - preferably the first few - were actually carrying civilians. The resulting hesitation gives them an initial advantage.
The main task of the roro ship are only transporting supply and equipment,not combat. And its operate behind enemy lines and with the escort of another warship like destroyer or frigate. in the wartime this roro ship are probably will be upgraded with anti air system like a s400 or ciws
C: Our secret weapon, is a transport ship that looks like a commercial ship. Also C: Training amphibious assault using the secret ship. Also C: 100s transport ship that turns off the transponder and moves to port. They won't dare to attack. T: 🙄 Attack.😮💨
My first thought too. Ro-ro ferries have a tendency to capsize even when hostile nations aren't firing missles or torpedo at them. I can't imagine it would take much to sink them.
@@derrickfoster644 They can just use their coastal guns. If they could hit heavy tanks with one in WW2, a Cold War or more modern variant can make short work of a ro-ro ferry.
Hypothetically, it might be possible to detect a militarized RoRo ferry according to the cargo it is carrying. Presumably, a ship full of tanks and personnel would have a different sonar signature to one with solid boxes of packed cargo with a skeleton crew.
Why straight at Taiwan? China could try to time the weekly transport of "domestic" cargos on night-time paths that follows their coastal waters, and only make a turn towards Taiwan at a time that is suitable. What I am saying is that China is likely to use subterfuge and weather conditions to increase the odds of successfully penetrating Taiwan. Being able to spot out of place activities will be key to preventing Chinese aggression from bearing fruit.
@@SabinStargem no single ferry can carry 1/100th the military force needed to conquer Taiwan. Any amount of ferries massing is automatically suspicious. And the fact is that if China isn't incredibly stupid, and they aren't, they will need military escort, which is itself a complete giveaway.
It's fairly cost effective to lay a great many sea mines which listen for certain ships. The acoustic signature given out by props and hull shape / speed is quite specific. These mines now weigh a couple of tons so the damage done is enough to break a ships back in certain depth of water. If China pushes it will be in a world of hurt that will take decades to fix.
after seeing the literal cracks in the newer PLAN aircraft carriers as well as the lack of actual use of real mil. assets- I assume these paper boats will get absolutely shredded by even basic munitions.
What no? China has militarized these civilian ships for transporting and supplying its troops. These are dual use ships meaning they can function as either commercial or military ships. Shipping goods or shipping weapons.
PRC's use of ro-lo ferries for military transport has been studied previously...their use in military exercises has been reported on, so no news here....the Taiwan ports possible use in a China invasion is already noted....
China does NOT OBEY any Laws of the sea regarding civilian ships or fishing boats or resupply vessels used by the Philippines or other countries. China's Coast Gard has sunk more boats deliberately fishing in Pilipino Economic zones and those trying to re-supply their civilian and military outposts. The world now knows which supply military ships to donate to Davey Jones Locker.
This isnt a secret weapon, it's more like a very commonly known, and widly acknowledged bad option. Contested amphibious landings are one of the most dangerous methods of moving troops into theatre, and that's WITH purpose built military landing craft, not repurposed or retrofitted civilian ferries. Now, if the a beachhead has already been secured, and air superiority established, then yes, they could be useful as an auxiliary mass transport. Unless the plan is to send 1,000 ferries and accept that most will be sunk, but HOPE that a few hundred will make it...
A RoRo Ferry would be just an unidentified blip on the radar screen, so in case of 'issues' would be an instant target, so can you imagine the effect of an anti-ship missile hitting one of these sitting ducks? Slava Tiawan.
that would give China a good excuse to declare war on Taiwan no?it would at the very least give China justification to attack and annex a couple of ports and territory in taiwan.....like crimea or the golan heights. In fact why not hijack a couple of Air china jetliners and crash it into Shang hai world trade center or something? Slava China,Russia,Brics and all the other countries in Africa, south america, middle east and parts of asia.....
This is a horrible idea with massive loss of life….there’s no way if China undertook this they just wouldn’t be sending tens of thousands of both civilians and their own military to die. I don’t want to ‘slavo’ anyone. If China does truly on their own accord try to invade Taiwan that’s one thing…but wishing for such an encounter that would likely escalate into outright world war (and likely nuclear war) is suicide. We truly live in a dark timeline where so many have been brainwashed at this point to want war and believe that any government and country has our best interests at heart…
@@jonathanpusar5931 Almost all of them have somehow decided that either Communist nukes don't work or like my Dad that we'll just magically shoot them all down when not 2 months ago when that balloon was floating around the military admitted we don't have one single active missile group in the country. Woopsie daisy. The AEGIS though amazing has to be in the right spot and has only had limited tests. There will be hundreds of missiles with a dozen warheads each my Dad thinks 90%+ would get stopped though. I don't. Remember that drone at the start of the war that malfunctioned and then crashed in NATO territory when it finally ran out of gas? There was no radar to spot that. When the Ukrainians flew to Moscow and droned it there was no defense system to help them. MAD is still real. Look at the Russian ship it was an AA ship and it got pwned by 2 missiles. I'm sures ours is better bla bla but how much better?
This is pretty much expected, most countries in this region including Indonesia, Japan Korea et al have wartime contingencies to use ferries to move troops. One give away is many have more installed horse power than is strictly needed for commercial activities. And that this contingency will only be a surprise to Americans. No other country in the world is rich enough and have the need enough to maintain a large sealift capability. If ever the UK finds itself in need of moving large numbers of troops, such as moving our Army to reinforce NATO in Germany we would need to impress the entire cross channel Ro-Ro fleet to do so. Our name for this is STUFT (Ships Taken Up Frome Trade) because we're basically stuffed if we need to put this into action. One thing we learned, relearned, is to differentiate between amphibious assault and amphibious transport. The assault ships should have the systems (most importantly the invisible electronic warfare ones) to defend itself. Ro-Ros have a place in supporting an already successful landing, but no place in the initial stages of a landing.
Their strategy is indeed, to ship law enforcement units, not to fight. Their main attack will be legal... (i.e., when all the major U.N. do not object to claim that Taiwan belongs to China, they will say: we're sending law enforcement units...). Suggest: scanning ships in China, before their departure, or making required checkpoint to check ship content nearby China's seashore, where Taiwan has islands. Don't let ships in without a check while far away from Taiwan's mainland.
“Strategic ambiguity” is only strategic if you don’t care about your civilian population. By using civilian vehicles for military purposes, you may get an initial advantage at the cost of all civilian vessels becoming targets. That’s the kind of gambit desperate terrorists would attempt, not a country trying to convince the world it’s an emerging superpower.
I can confirm the RoRo ramps used by the Chinese pointed out in the video is very similar to ones used by US military (Military Sealift Command) boats in the Bobo-class style of ships
Yes and no. US ships definitely have this capability, but we have fewer of them. We can definitely perform that function, but nowhere near the scale of a full-on Amphibious invasion like D-Day in WW2. Hard truth is this: China can outbuild the US with all types of naval vessels. Chinese ships may be of lower quality, but sometimes, sheer quantity has a quality of its own.
The real advantage of a Ferry boat is that once 5 miles off shore the casino tables and slots can now operate which is signaled when the patio deck calypso band starts playing "Luck be a Lady". Also be sure to check out the new international buffet complete with carving station, tutti fruiti smoothie bar and tri-colored chocolate fountain (always a hit w/the kids)
China will not attempt attacking Taiwan unless it controls the strait, negating access to the US. The USN still has the upper hand, but China for sure is working to close the gap.
@@CMaldonado1690The Chinese navy has more ships however they are mostly small coastal patrol boats. This will allow them to take the strait until the full USN arrives.
The chinese maritime militia and coast guard will likely play a part in the amphibious invasion of taiwan, they will likely help in transporting the army amphibious units to taiwan which would allow the chinese navy to stay east of taiwan and delay foreign intervention.
The USN operates non-military ships for logistics and supply. Including special-purpose ships like the USNS Montford Point T-ESD-1 - an Expeditionary Transfer Dock. Which can tie up to a RORO ship at sea, so vehicles can driven off of and straight on to an Air Cushion Landing Craft. RORO ships can transfer vehicles only onto a hard pier, and one only in a deep water port. ESDs allow cargo to be offloaded at sea and delivered to any place where land meets sea at a modest gradient, across water, sand, marsh, gravel, etc.
China: even though we'll build up our ports with troops, APC's, Tanks, Artillery, no one will suspect an invasion on these ferries. US: Satellites 👀 watching every move 😂
A US amphibious assault ship is designed for one Battalion of US Marines. The US also has pre-prepositioning ships that carry a wide range of vehicles and supplies for the US military. Then, the US owns the sky, always has. The Chinese Ro-ro ships would be destroyed either by missile or torpedo. They would not make it. Legit military target the moment CHina loads it with military equipment for combat.
Acutally Chinese civil war never end from 1949, Taiwan also sent a lot of troops to invade Mainland China in past decades, so don't mislead others if you have scense on history.
I doubt that China would be concerned the international rules of war in the event of an invasion. However, if they _did_ want to look like the good guys, there's no reason they couldn't just repaint the ships in preparation for action. There's plenty of value in having a fleet of warships which can serve a civilian purpose in peacetime.
It was an exercise how to ferry a large invasion force? The commercial ship cannot be mistaken as military ship with military purpose. Its glaring intent to invade😊
This is why they are making trailer mount rocket systems. They will deploy fleets of IFV, APV, and other assault vehicles and then load the trailer mount rocket attack systems.
there is no blur here: when military operation starts, civilian ships are not allowed in the area, so they are legitimate targets if they dare to enter
In the words of Gimli: "A mine". If I were Taiwan, I'd develop the ability to lay a TON of mines in the area. It'd be dead simple to, surreptitiously, get high fidelity acoustic signatures of all of these ferries. Program those into the mines, place them around the harbors and tell them to sleep until you hear one of the sounds from the "kill list".
Problem with RORo's is they need port facilities and/or temporary floating docks and bridges to unload. With todays technology those facilities are easy targets and on the West Taiwanese shore there aren't really that many locations where these temporary unloading facilities could be put in place.
If the stern ramps have been modified, as detailed in the video, then RoRos can launch all sorts of military hardware: Amphibious Craft and Vehicles (ATVs, APCs, AFVs, Landing Craft including Tank Landing Craft, Hovercraft Etc.), Trailer-Launched craft like High-Speed Boats and Ribs, or simply any small inflated craft like Zodiacs. Lots of tactical options now for a RoRo/RoPax with a modified stern ramp (without the need for a dock of any kind). I'd now start looking at PCTC/Car Carrier vessels for similar modifications. Their capacities would dwarf the capacities of RoRos discussed in this video! ⚓ 🚢 🛳 🚤🛶 🛥 ⛴ ⚓
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🉐🈴🈴🈴🈴tibet country
why did you laugh so much for this vid? was someone tickling you?
@@noob.168 how did you know👀
@@Kamome163 winnie the...i mean xi jinping told me that he told you a roro your boat joke.
@@Kamome163where do you get your maps?
I am skeptical that the military/civilian ambiguity will bear any meaning once a war breaks out. If the ships of Chinese maritime militias do not distinguish themselves as military (especially during peacetime) and the CCP can impress vessels with little notice, then any Chinese flagged ship becomes a legitimate military target during war.
This is the case in war. All belligrent nation vessels (including cargo vessels) are legitimate military targets, unless marked with a Red Cross symbol. This happened in WW2 where Allies & Axis attacked each others merchant shipping.
I personally think a free-for-all hunting season for every chinese vessel sounds fun.
@@wiryantirta Free for all hunting for every American ship also sounds fun for the japs, until the US started building like a thousand aircraft carriers per year. Maybe go check the morden ship industry capabilities of some major countries first
Sounds like what Germany did in WW1 and WW2
@@wiryantirta Bro if China cease to exist, even without a fight, everything you buy would prob. be 20-100+% more expensive. They make the device you post with ya know
RoRo ferries are very easy to sink. In the nautical world, they're nicknamed "roll-on, roll-over." They're highly susceptible to bad weather and load shifts, and it takes HOURS to lock down all the vehicles and cargo. While a few could make land and get combat vehicles to shore, a well-trained navy or coast guard pretty much guarantees that the threat from RoRo ferries is just about zero...
Edit: Speaking to the legal ambiguity, we should remember that there are no rules in war, on victors. If I were a Taiwanese naval officer and my country was officially at war with China, I don't think a single CCP flagged ship would make it within 5 nautical miles of shore. Sort it out later, after the dust settles.
I don't think they will fare well when a torpedo or a anti-ship missiles rams into them. More Chinese troops killed per missile is an advantage for Taiwan. Firing on "civilian" vessels in a non-issue during a hot war.
Exactly. And also, civilian or military can be argued is depending on the cargo it carries..simple really
At that point (official war declaration) I think we're past the point any kind of deception being useful. This is, I think, for the escalation phase of the war, when things are ambiguous and there are still diplomatic talks happening (though in using these, probably not for long). As for the ease of sinking, I'll take you on your word for it. There's a lot of compromise that goes on to making a convincing decoy.
What? I've served on the LHA-6, an amphibious warfare ship. it takes hours to chain down cargo and vehicles on these kinds of ships as well. your point is pointless.
@@BESWWBE[disregard other points and came into conclusion that "your point is pointless]
The famous cruise ship QE2 also played just as vital a role in the Falklands War. Using her great size and speed, QE2 transported the main British land fighting force to the other end of the globe before the South Atlantic winter closed in, which would have made retaking the Falklands impossible. No big deal at all.
Great point! And let's not forget the Atlantic conveyor carrying Harriers on her deck!
Argies should have targeted civilian vessels. The Chinese won't make the same mistake!
@@Kamome163 The Brits got in a lot of trouble during the falkland wars for using civilian airships for covert military purposes. I'm Uruguayan, we allowed teh British to use a Uruguayan hospital to treat their wounded under the condition that British planes landing in Uruguay were not allowed to carry weapons, but they got caught trying to do so anyway, squandering international humanitarian good will and even putting their own wounded at risk! Never again
@@SunriseLAW He's saying the UK used civilian ships to supplement military ones also. It's a valid point and an example of when it happened in a real world scenario.
@@SunriseLAW British lost 225 KIA. 2 destroyers sunk, 2 frigates sunk, 1 landing ship sunk, 1 landing craft sunk, 1 container ship sunk. 24 helicopters and 10 fighter jets were downed. Seems like the Argentinians were able to do a lot of damage with zero ability.
Reminds me of how the S.S. United States (One of the fastest ships ever built) was also designed like a warship, free of wood fittings and near completely fire-proof. In order to be to be converted into a troop transport for an entire division in the case of WW3. Sadly, with the rise of airliners and fall of oceanliners we are near losing this engineering gem.
The United States was the fastest conventional big passenger ship ever built.
She is merely a carcass now, the people need to let go.
Equally sadly, we no longer have polio, lynching, or the Soviet Union. Get some perspective...
Why do you need it.
Even aircraft carriers. They are huge, slow, and vulnerable.
The carrier has yet to face a willing and competent adversary in the era of nuclear attack submarines, air launched cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles.
@@penultimateh766 fr
@@calvinnickel9995 Hey dork, that's because nearly ALL the carriers that EXIST belong to the US, and the US HAS no "competent" adversaries, least of all China.. As for cruise missiles", ever heard of "kamikazes"? Sure they're dangerous, but they're not bulletproof. Nor are subs, especially since we have more of them and better ASW systems. And a ballistic missile can't hit a moving target. In short, no, we don't expect zero casualties, we expect a WAR.
You did not mention that the US Navy’s San Antonio Class has accommodations for marines, a 124 bed hospital, mess facilities and repair facilities and support for landing a assualt brigade along with self air defense. It has facilities for the Osprey V-22, helicopters and so much more.
Not to mention, decades of USN naval warfare experience, etc.
Doesn't the US have any ro-ro?
They're pretty common vessels, i guess they have plenty.
As a US merchant sailor who's been getting increasingly more interested in maritime intel and that sort of stuff, especially after sailing around the SCS/ECS and the Western Pacific - this is a great video, nice work man.
Never really thought of retrofitting Ro-Ro's to launch AAVs at sea, definitely an interesting concept and I'm curious to see if it would actually be a viable strategy if things kick off.
Hey Tom! Super cool profile pic and great videos! You just got one more subscriber! 🤩
Thank you so much, yeah I was also surprised when I saw the pictures of AAV being launched from commercial RoRo. If you scroll down in the video description you can find the sources I used for my research and there are a few which provide actual satellite images of RoRo involved in amphibious exercises. If you scroll a even bit more down you find the link to our secret Discord where you’re more than welcome to join! 😉
Obviously, you have not heard of "Club K" cruise missiles on innocent looking ship containers with antenna and controlled by settlelite. Of Russian origin and used by PLA.
I'd be much much more worried about a cargo carrier. You could literally put a 100,000 people on one with ease.
@@simroysten7963 I actually just started seeing posts about Klub-K today - another interesting gray area strategy for the PLAN for sure.
I don't think we have anything similar currently. I do remember some proposals about putting remote-operated VLS cells aboard T-AKE class auxiliary/logistics ships but as far as I know nothing ever came of that as it would change their non-combatant status.
@@Kamome163 thanks hahah I'll take a look!
Great video! I work on a lot of PCC/ RoRo vessels for work (I unload and load them at my local port) be that they are a dofferent style ship, it is the exact same concept. Funnily enough, at around 3:10 when all the trailers and rendered in to look like a human has parked them... kinda looks inaccurate hahaha. You would be suprised how accurately cars etc. are parked, both when we receive them from asia etc. and when we load them ourselves. This is because you have to be pretty strict to fit as much as you can in. Sometimes when getting a vessel to unload, it looks scary unreal how perfectly straight the rows are, its wild!
Just cars get parked with one spotter lining you up perfectly, let alone trailers and larger vehicles which would include 3 or more spotters at times each!
Just a funny little quirk, and finally somewhere I could share a tiny spec of information of something I have up close experience with.
02:36 - "These ships are equipped with multiple access ramps, usually with one at the stern and one at the aft of the ship."
uh . . . the "stern" means the back end of the ship. "Aft" means . . . towards the back end of the ship. So . . .
And very solid infrastructure to load/offload.
While animating maps from different perspective is cool, may I suggest you for the most part keep it in a roughly ‘up is north’ orientation? Alternative perspectives just takes a few seconds for one to understand what’s going on and the thought process is a bit distracting from the main content.
As a Taiwanese, I really appreciate whoever make this video possible!
Thank you so much! It means so much! 🥹 these are the comments that remind us why we love the community❤️. BTW I think we will probably print it out
老乡 我是中国大陆的 希望台湾尽快回到祖国怀抱。
@@Kamome163World knows when america desperately cries for democracy and freedoom of that country or region what will happen to that region take for example afaganostan,iraq,Libiay😂😂😂Even usa has never said taiwan is a country but the amount pf poeple supporting it really is a shock😂😂Bro they are like in civil war that never ended ..Sayinh china is gonna invade taiwan is like asuimg usa will overthrow and overkill hawaians kings and their ruler to setup their Own form of government wheather people want it or not
its always good for your image to appreciate the people that made war and occupied india, invaded falklands, invaded china to occupy and sell opium, you know, all that stuff that is written in history.
they care about you bro, trust them.
As a merchant navy sailor (deck officer cadet), on my previous ship we encountered many Chinese fishing boats in the Indian Ocean some as far as South of Madagascar. They have been hoovering up the world's oceans for years. Their incredibly bright lights were clearly distinguishable from around 30 nautical miles away through my binoculars on my night time navigational watches, and illuminated the night sky like the Moon. We also had to steer around them at times given fishing boats often congregate where ships often go (we weren't in any TSS/shipping lanes at the time either).
With regards to the Ro-Ro ferries being used like this, it is an interesting development but not all that surprising either given some Ro-Ro ferries are already under military charter around the world such as most of the Point Class Ro-Ro ferries here in the UK. The line between civilian shipping and military shipping also being blurred in previous conflicts, including with the likes of the so called "unrestricted" submarine warfare during WW2 where only hospital ships and ships of neutral countries were illegal to target given their clear identification as either (as remains the case today).
Also, as already mentioned large, high speed civilian ships (usually ocean liners) have made the key difference to past conflicts such as Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth shortening WW2 with their troopship work alone, including Queen Mary still holding the record for the most people carried by any ship ever of over 16,000 troops on one voyage and as already mentioned QE2 (a ship I grew up sailing on as a child passenger) transporting a large number of our troops south to the Falklands including most of the Gurkhas who the Argentines were terrified of.
However, it should be noted that some of these ocean liners were built with military use in mind (for example, Mauretania and Lusitania being designed as Armed Merchant Cruisers in event of war with reinforced areas on deck for mounting naval guns) and/or with government subsidies that enabled their construction in the first place with at least troop ship use in mind in a time of need (SS United States being yet another example). Some of these ocean liners also only stayed in service due to government subsidies (SS United States being an example of this too). Furthermore some of these ocean liners (usually the largest and fastest of their time) were the nation's "ship's of state" being the best that nation could create so usually lending themselves, in this way alone, to serving their respective nations in time of war with propaganda and morale components also coming into play.
Finally, I doubt today's cruise ships will be involved in the same manner in a future conflict given they are not built with military use in mind at all, and given the nature of warfare has changed even since 1982, not to mention the ownership of today's cruise ships is not as straightforward, let alone the registries of these ships - making requisitioning them more complicated at the very least.
Thanks for the update the Chinese are trying to be sneaky but the Tiawaneese are ketching on!
Yes the big Beautiful Queen Mary was,used for some troop transport in WW2 I toured it years ago in Long Beach CA
@@steveeddy6876 the Taiwanese also know that their economy depends on the mainland - and increasingly they are aware of facts like that in the US wargame for Taiwan it says that if China does not destroy industry/infrastructure the US will. And they don't really fancy becoming another Ukraine
even back in the Punic wars between Rome and Carthage civilian ships got requisitioned. your right this ro-ro thing is nothing new.
PLA Navy also operate their own "cruise ships" which were designed to keep up with carrier groups and house ~3000 personnel for prolonged period. It was previously used for crew rotation during carrier training (so they could train 3-4 sets of crew with 1 training carrier), but could certainly be used as troop transport if the need arise, and take a lot more than 3000 if the trip is short.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daguan-class_troopship
They also have a distinct sound signature which undoubtedly is in US/Taiwanese sonar libraries. Those ships would be HVT for sub surface assets.
Taiwan strait are pretty much too shallow for submarine operation, and you have to know that this ship would be in convoy and escorted by multiple destroyer
Those transports would be traveling from destinations outside the strait as he showcases in the beginning of the video. Shallow water does complicate things as well but its not preventive and Taiwanese subs would be in the strait regardless.
The problem is taiwanese sub are too few and outdated, they only have four conventional diesel sub and two of them are from ww2 era submarine, so their submarine capability isnt that great
@@JoelCorrente You are being too optimistic. Subs operating in shallow water don't stand a chance against air surveillance, destroyers and corvettes. What will be worse is China will definitely mine the access to the Straits on both sides. And these RORO will be used after Taiwanese defences have been destroyed. And it would be too easy to put a couple of HQ17 air defences system on the RORO, even if I don't think it would be necessary with China's air and sea dominance over the straits.
@@Fauzanarief-n7iAre submarines really required to launch torpedoes or could they be launched from the shore?
Super high quality videos! Love to see it.
Thank you so much, Liam! 🥹
There is no way there would be any confusion or ambiguity about these ships’ purpose if war did break out. Taiwan would be fighting for it’s very existence and the existence of everyone on the island, any ship of this size sailing in their direction would be fair game immediately. They are not gonna wait around asking for every ship to identify itself, if you know the Chinese could use this tactic, believe me the Taiwanese also do.
Any ship carrying troops into a battlefield would be a legitimate target even if it is flagged as a civilian ship. In fact disguising military ships as civilian ships can be considered a war crime as it puts actual civilian ships at risk of being targets. That said I could see China mixing in actual civilian ships full of actual innocent civilians who would be rerouted into the theatre of battle once the operation started. This would also be a war crime but make it more difficult for the defenders. Especially if they load part of the top decks where vehicles are visible with civilian vehicles to disguise them from visual identification.
That said, cruise and anti-ship missiles would make short work of these, especially if they are full of munitions and fueled vehicles, and could be targeted to individual ships tracked from ports where they were loaded. Keep in mind they would not be the vanguard of any attack despite the offshore unloading capability because they would be a sitting duck for shore batteries and even mobile artillery responding to the landing area. Taiwan has F-35s and other capable fighters and will easily be able to maintain at least a tactical advantage in the sky and allow attacks on any ships attempting to unload troops offshore. Unless they planned on unloading 20+ miles out to sea, it would be ineffective.
The idea that they would be able to approach unnoticed and effect a surprise landing is also unlikely as the use of spy satellites and the very real use of sympathetic ground based observers (spys). These assets would be able to identify the loading of a large amount of military vehicles and personnel onto them long before they ever left port. Even staging for such an action would take weeks of preparation (if not more) and give Taiwanese defense forces plenty of time to prepare. Then there is the mining of any port approaches, denying the use of them. Add the overwhelming capabilities of the US Rapid Dragon Launch System and only a small percentage of these would ever be able to unload their troops. Then once onshore they would still have to fight through a heavily motivated, western armed and trained resistance force while most of their own reinforcements and logistical supplies are being destroyed before ever making it to the island. If most of these ferries are lost in the initial wave, as I suspect they will be because even the empty ones leaving will be targeted, then China will have no way to do this again, making mount a second attack impossible if this one stalls or fails outright.
So you mean, PLAN and PLAAF all drink cup'o coffee and watch these ships struggle on the sea? I can fully understand that Americans imagine what the war would be looks like sinking a somali pirates boat.
@@seraphimworms899 Ah, yes, the PLAN and PLAAF...they are very scary are they not? We hear a lot about all their big scary new toys that will put the USA on the back foot but the reality is all their technology is basically stolen tech from Russia. Evben their hypersonic missiles they threaten the USN's CAs with can be easily neutralized by taking out their guidance satellites. Their own new big carrier is sitting in at dock with a crack in the hull so big it looks like the rear end of the ship is going to fall off. PLAN does not have a true blue water navy and the PLAF has a limited number of stealth capable fighters (and that is being kind).
Let's be real here, how many battles has the PLA actually fought, outside of those against its own people or immediate neighbors? I will even let you count the war with clubs in the Himalayas against India...
You make it sound like the PLAN has been out on the ocean fighting naval battles day and night. Who have they fought?
The USN actually has run wartime operations with its assets, most notably the carrier task forces.
The USA has been honing it warfighting edge every year for the last 30+ years fighting real battles.
The only way the PLA gets a beachhead is through a total surprise attack and without any response from the USA. It isn't going to happen. The USA already has multiple bases in the Philippines and at least one other island east of Taiwan, outside China's reach, so threats against the Carrier fleet are moot.
China will be fighting Taiwan, the USA, Japan, S.Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Australia. All nations that China has threatened, bullied, stolen from, and infringed upon their territory and all of them have sworn to defend Taiwan if China tries to invade it. It is also likely that India takes the opportunity to lash out and retake their territory in the Himalayas while it is distracted with this debacle it created.
Taiwan does not have F35. They do have F16, Patriots, and Harpoon missiles though. Civilian ships could be used for a surprise attack and there are ways to disguise a troop build-up.
@@bjornholmsen8694 Correct, they do not have the F-35s, but there are plenty pledged to the defense of the island from Japan, S.Korea, and the multiple US bases nearby. Although they were seeking to buy the JASM cruise missiles and those would be very effective and a lot cheaper than the F-35s if they were to get their hands on them.
You can disguise a small troop buildup but it takes hundreds of thousands to invade an island like Taiwan and just the logistics companies alone getting ready to deploy would set off alarm bells around the world and give weeks of warning. This is not 1945, the USA has full satellite coverage of the region that can see and monitor all of these troop movements. And just like with other hostile nations, the USA watches China all the time.
@@socket_error1000 We shall see ;)
Those ships are slow moving, high value targets. One "Quick Sink" bomb dropped by F-16 can break such a ship to two halves.
unless its a drone, it aint hard to convert ya know (Opps , no conversion needed ).. ships are auto pilots most of the time..ya just keyin Way Points.. and it'll steer it self LoL. and ya just wasted ya SINK BOMB and most probably ya precious F16 too
@@kentershackle1329 probably
Which F16 will be around to do that?
Ita actually a brilliant idea. Forget silly folks thinking about "misidentification, disguise as civilian bla bla" this ship will work as ferry, racking cash in peacetime and transport at wartime. Capable of being deployed in numbers without the PAIN of losing cash during peacetime. True show of Chinese attrition preparation and business mentality!
💯pretty smart if you ask me!
Being disguised as civilians is also as brilliant as it is evil
Nothing less should be expected from the communists
the british used cargo ship to launch and land harrier jet during the falkland war. the british also used civilian ships to evacuate allied troops in dunkirk during ww2. civilian ships and ship building capability is a huge asset in war. the americans also built 2700 liberty ships to supply europe in ww2.
It's good they have two ramps , one at the stern and one aft. If they put another at the back, it would be invincible.
These ships would be sunk by missiles and torpedoes so quickly
in event of war with taiwan,china PLA` will be protecting these roros with submarines,drones,corvettes,missile boats, coast guards vessels,anti submarines helicopters,attack helicopters and fighter jets
like most reds- it is more about numbers than protecting the people who make up the numbers. so the benefit is carry weight and numbers without building exp. military assists- at the massive loss of any protection.
@@ItsJoKeZ true. It's so American to think that lives of the soldiers is of any concern to the Chinese generals. All they care for is the objective to be reached and if it takes a toll on the soldiers and machinery to achieve that goal than that is an acceptable solution. In war quantity often turns into quality.
As stated in the video, these ships don't need to sail into active conflict zones to be useful. They can relieve pressure on warships that might have had to transport units out of theater. They can exert pressure simply by existing.
And again, as stated in the video, let's say war starts and this ship is sailing 100kms from Taiwan. Should Taiwan shoot? What if it was all civilians? You may say it's ambigious and "deserved to get shot at" or whatever, but it'll be terrible optics and optics is hella important to a small country that needs international assistance.
@@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022 Don't forget, Taiwanese people are Chinese. They don't give a F just like Mainland Chinese don't give a F. It's only the Western snowflakes that stand around wringing their hands and biting their nails about killing a few civilians. Taiwan will sink anything in the strait.
That's also a lot of supplies to lose at once considering it's such an easy target.
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Amphibious landings on Taiwan are extremely difficult. Taiwan has few beaches, and they are heavily fortified. The coast is rocky and steep in most places. China would need to defeat these coastal defenses _before_ they could land troops on beaches amphibiously.
It’s an island, they will simply block it and within weeks you’ll see how live will change in Taiwan no reason to land on it until they get invited from the large Population that is already Pro China (see last local elections)… Taiwan is nothing with China, that’s why it is also part of China whether you or your warmongering caretaker in Washington like it… you caretakers are probably not allowing to do your own research but common sense should tell you that Taiwan can only loose.
And it's not like the Taiwanese are gonna let those ferries approach Taiwan cost peacefully, they'll be traveling through hell fire
All defense installations in Taiwan would be hit with missiles and drones in a saturation strategy especially near the landing zones. Then a naval blockade would be enforced. Only then an amphibious landing would commence. This ain't Normandy bruh.
@@Aamirmhmd99 If they blockade Taiwan, then all that will happen is Chinese ships will be blockaded elsewhere.
Interesting.
A year ago I looked into dual purpose ro ro cargo ships and only one was identified. Ocean going ferries could be an adaptable vessel, too but I wonder if conversion and operation would really that simple to execute an amphibious landing without all sorts of things going wrong. And, of course even if seaworthy it would take somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 hours to traverse the strait in ideal weather conditions, maybe a bit longer with a very full load. Possibly for the last hour approaching the island, the ships could be under heavy attack from all types of wwepons from shoulder fired AT missiles like the Javelin to ordinary artillery firing ordinary or maybe even guided shells and everything else you can imagine. The point is that an amphibious ship can be stopped right up to maybe 20 feet (maybe more) of the water's edge and the landing would be considered a failure.
You'd also have to wonder how reliable or operational an improvised ramp like what was described in this video would work in a real world scenario. Something like a modified ramp would be something I'd want designed to the high standards of the US, and would be jittery about China's design standards. But, who knows? Maybe Chinese invading troups could get lucky and not experience any problem.
Excellent, you gave a realistic view of the immense difficulties of any amphibious operation. Anyone who has visited Omaha Beach, would know that one crew of Germans in a very strong bunker wreaked havoc on the US landing force with an anti-tank weapon. The Taiwanese manufacture many of the most sophisticated microchips in the world which causes me to ask what else they might have manufactured. The two hundred plus mountain peaks over 3,000 meters are stronger than any weapons in the Chinese arsenal including nuclear. The old adage about not underestimating your enemy applies in every military confrontation. The US military landed unopposed in Okinawa and then suffered immense loses from a well protected Japanese Army. And then there were the Kamikaze! The Japanese Navy never expected to get stopped by destroyer escorts and PT boats against their battle force of capital ships. The Japanese regiment that attacked the Marines on Guadalcanal never anticipated the heroic actions of Medal of Honor recipient Sgt. John Basilone. The Germans obliterated much of Stalingrad but in the end they failed to achieve the objective. One never knows what unforeseen event will unravel the best laid plans. Midway Island should have been a easy victory on paper, but in turned into a tide turning defeat. You just never know.
very uneducated to think today is 1945. china will never send any ship before sending thousands missiles to disable any defense system the island have.
Great point there. I agree those ships don’t stand a chance in actual combat situations but could still be useful in sealift operations and in launching and recovering AAVs. On the ramps there’s an article which I used for the research of this video that goes more into details on it jamestown.org/program/ramping-the-strait-quick-and-dirty-solutions-to-boost-amphibious-lift/
Jittery abt CHINA DESIGN STANDARD?. LoL.. China shipbuilding is at if not at leading edge of shipbuilding mate. International Classification Soceity makes sure of it. Chinese built ships are all sailinf over the world .
@@kentershackle1329 You’re right about that and we didn’t question it in the video. The main focus related to shipbuilding is on the military standards which specific vessels have to be built with.
Love your work as usual Kamome. Love the 3D graphics and animations.
Thank you so much, Toby!🥹
I'm trying to understand, no one else have counted these commercial ships?.. I mean in military they always use civilian logistical assets so why Chinese civilian logistical assets such as commercial airliners and ships were not considered as potential military equipments?
It *is* considered a possible military asset - as the video says, Taiwanese forces track their movements. I'm sure the Japanese, Koreans and Americans do too. US sub surface warfare capability is still leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.
I don't understand why this has been highlighted as some sort of devious and extraordinary practice, because it's not. Commercial vessels designed to military specifications have been around since WWI. China requiring registered ROROs to follow standard specifications is just the latest evolution in merchant naval capabilities.
The video doesn't provide adequate context on merchant navies and why they became practical in wartime, nor does it explain why China can incorporate ROROs into their military sealift capacity.
If you think about it, such capabilities provided by merchant navies are only possible when a nation maintains the linkage between its civil and military industries, has a strong manufacturing sector, and achieves near vertical integration of its supply chain. Very few nations today can claim these three characteristics, and China is one of them.
The media hubbub behind this development shows a disconnect in Western narratives. On the one hand they push the idea that the Chinese took Western jobs which resulted in unemployment, poverty, and increased crime rates across the West. On the other they push the idea that the Chinese people are not overall living better lives than they were 20 years ago, that all the numbers and academic reports coming out of China tracking its enormous improvement in living standards and poverty alleviation are false. Then comes in the news that Chinese commercial RORO ferries are not only being co-opted for military use, but that they are being *designed* for military use.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either China has the wide array of civilian industries and prowess which indicate advanced infrastructure and well-educated citizens, or they haven't outcompeted Western labour on cost and efficiency.
Ordinarily, commercial ships don't support offloading to the ground like beaches. Ro ro ships ordinarily offload and onload to a dock. Ships that aren't ro ro need cranes to offload or onload. That's why ro ro ships might be considered usable to support resupply to a captured port but not as part of an amphibious landing to a beach. Apparently the Chinese are attempting to modify some of their ocean going ferries to offload to a beach.
@@tonysu8860when you were using commercial assets unit you do need lots of support activities such as ground servicing for aircrafts in a proper airport or dock facilities for commercial ships. Military assets are meant to secure those airports and docks in the first place so that in the later supply runs where larger number of logistical transport assets are required The military vehicles do not become too strained. Heck , UK won the Falklands war with proper utilizing marchant navy for supply chain. We often see c5s and C-17 transporting American soldiers but what we do not see is Pan am (desert Storm reference) airliners also doing the same thing, called civil reserve air fleet CRAF.
@@cxzact9204 l
02:42 They show a ro-ro with bow doors open & they say stern & aft. The stern is aft. 😁😁
These ferries have absolutely no defenses. They will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
Thank you for covering RO/RO ships as an instrument of war.
I consider them second wave transports.
First wave would be one way container ships that could dump millions
of tons onto an unsuspecting shore.
And Taiwan isn't just sinking them from 100km out...why?
Don't forget their militarized fishing trawlers designed for ramming and sinking other ships that essentially have small-arm proof hulls and can drop off 50+ infantry each, having several hundreds to a couple thousand available, while Taiwan doesn't even have 1000 missiles capable of engaging ships and suddenly the PRC can drop 50k+ infantry on the first wave if they want to commit to beach-ramming these ships ashore.
@@hypersonichobo4263 because 100 km is exactly how far the mainland is I'm sending a missile directly to the mainland would activate it's missile defense system which has more missile capacity than the rest of the world combined not to mention the fact that they use in training enough missiles that puts the rest of the world supply to shame annually
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Sauf qu'il faut diviser ces chiffres par 3 : corruption communiste classique....
Plus d'apparences (et de trolls) que de réelles capacités.
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br If they're already invading, there's no choice but to hit them anyway. What are they gonna do, nuke you? Invade you?
An interesting fact: Both Taiwan's and China's constitutions state that the land consists of the mainland and the island of Taiwan. Therefore, legally, the two regimes belong to the same country. Just because of the civil war split into two regimes, no international treaty defines Taiwan as an independent country. This is just a legacy of the Chinese Civil War, and this civil war has not signed any armistice agreement from 1946 to now. In other words, the two sides of the strait are still in a state of war, only a ceasefire.
Let's hope for the annexation of Continental Taiwan to the island government
@@FilippoGuarda Do you really think a tiny Island of 40ish million can take down the mainland of 1.5 billion. Grow up. Taiwan will fall.
@@MuffHam Its only a matter of time until West Taiwan joins the island of Taiwan.
@@ameritoast5174 Keep dreaming. China will take Tawian. It's simple reality.
@@ameritoast5174 LOL this made my day
The problem is that Taiwan has f3w beaches suitable for landing armies and I suspect that the current occupants of Taiwan may do their best to discourage such activities.
@Art Vogt hopefully they are smart enough to have learned the lesson of Ukraine, don't get spent as America's puppet.
@@sanriosonderweg You mean Russia's meat grinder? But yes, Ukraine should never have given in to pressure to give away they nuclear weapons regardless of how much Clinton insisted. When you have aggressive neighbours nukes seem to be a requirement for neutrality
@@sanriosonderweg Get spent as a russian puppet? What do you even mean
Those beaches have long been mined and artillery presighted.
@@batboy555 Precisely. Taiwan has been preparing for an invasion for decades.
Next @Kamome163 should address the issue of container ships hiding DF-21 launchers inside cargo containers. They will also be used in a hypothetical invasion.
Literally everybody has "Civilian ships designed for rapid conversion to military use".
In WW1/2 the royal navy required all British Liners to be built to support the emplacement of various defence weapons in time of war. This made it easy to arm ships for defense against Raiders or as merchant Raiders themselves.
I actually genuinely agree with you and finally some one who l found in the comment section that actually has a functioning brain for once
“These ships have multiple access ramps. Usually one at the stern and one at the aft” Check your nautical terminology. Both refer to the back of the ship. Stern is the back of the ship on the outside. Aft is the back of the ship on the inside.
It is distracting when you use confusing, inaccurate language.
Not only will China use the ferries, they will utilize hundreds of fishing vessels.
China accounts for half the worlds fishing activity. We’re talking tens of thousands if they wanted to
Yeah but they will only use their maritime militia and coast guard once the bombardment was conducted
So they made floating coffins?
The Chinese fishing fleet?
Aww man, the mental image of Taiwanese frigates just mowing over those junks is comedy gold.
Ah yes, the mighty Taiwanese navy, which would totally not be turned to dust by a gazillion missiles before they got to fire a shot
Two months before Russia invaded Ukraine, the US Government started to sound the alarm that the invasion was imminent. Putting enough logistics and personnel together to launch a successful invasion would be almost impossible. Once you know it is coming, a ferry is a great target. Monitoring the whereabouts of the ferries is easy and monitoring for a buildup of men and machines is easy. I am not saying China may not try it, but I am sure that they can't do it by surprise, and I believe that it will turn into another protracted conflict that will damage China far more than they may realize.
The part I don’t understand is the main focus for this ship is to send ground troops, but I don’t think they can just go to any port and do so.
I love these videos so much.
Thank you so much, Mark! I really appreciate that 🥹
Out of all of the things I could have thought about for how china would send troops and equipment to Taiwan, the last thing on my mind was Civilian Transport boats (which probably should have not been the case) it's honestly mind boggling to think that china is actually making a ton of these boats to prepare for such an invasion of Taiwan. But then it's important to remember that china subscribes to a doctrine known as Unrestricted warfare which means that anything can be used as a weapon for the CCP. China's fishing fleets that sail around the world as well as cause disruptions in the South China Sea are a good example of this.
Great video as always Kamome, love how you brought up such an unspoken tool that china is preparing to use for future warfare. And I can't wait for you to make a video on Latin America!!!! I think that and Africa are the only two places you haven't talked about yet so I'm desperately waiting for one of them 🤞.
You basically forgot that civillian merchant fleet are play important rule in combat in ww2, So ita not a suprise that china will use roro ship for their amphibious landing
That's easily solved, If it moves shoot it.
@@Fauzanarief-n7i Just to add, the Royal Navy also used merchant ships during the Falklands War. Even the Coalition Force led by US duting the Gulf War also used a lot of Merchant ships.
This is no news. It was widely reported in. 2015 that they would convert civilian ships into military ships. Six categories of ships were mentioned.
Ro-Ro still need some level of "finished" landing point. They are not capable of launching amphibious vehicles while at sea. I like the "off-handed" manner the narrator describes making the 3-4 hour transit across the Straight (particularly if it's contested). Having a Ro-Ro capable vessel is important for the logistical follow on...but first the PLA/PLAN will have to seize and secure a viable port facility.
Or bring a port facility with them, as was done at Normandy.
If a land AND air beachead is established, the RoRos could be offloaded by cargo amphibs. Drive a dozen vehicles onboard, throw load within the relative safety of the dry cargo bay, and then send them back. The ballasting operation would be complicated thorugh, and the air beachhead would have to be of considerable given the ranges of modern and near future ASMs.
It's one of those 'theoretically could, probably shouldn't in practice' situations.
Much like china's invasion of Taiwan.
@@anticarrrot I hate to break it to you but what you're suggesting can't be done. Ro-Ro can not "off load" to another vessel afloat for basically the same reasons they can't launch amphibious vehicles. Secondly, the "Mulberry" was constructed after a successful amphibious landing. The Chinese don't have the amphibious lift capacity to get enough troops to shore to conduct an amphibious landing. Everything about the Normandy Landings would have been a disaster if attempted today against even a moderately armed opponent. Any discussion of a PLA/PLAN/PLAAF assault on Taiwan is merely in the long term planning stage...maybe three to five years away. Keep in mind that Germany had no naval or air presence at Normandy and that the allies not only had a 10:1 numerical advantage in troops but had uncontested air superiority as well as a extremely experienced Navy conducting the landings...also the allies had the opportunity to "practice" multiple times at North Africa, Sicily and Italy...to work out the kinks before attempting Normandy.....so Nope, it ain't happening anytime soon.
@brianfoley4328 Dude, look up the meaning of 'if'.
RoRos built to mil spec, as these ones allegedly are, absolutely could be built for deployment/recovery at sea, depending on the extent of the modifications. Frankly the biggest difference between vehicle deck and well deck is the intention of the design team and door width.
I agree the idea is very silly, but saying it can't be done, as opposed it shouldn't be done, is equally silly.
@@anticarrrot I suspect you don't know much about R0-Ro, and that's okay, but "mil spec" or not...Ro-Ro are not set up to transfer ship-to-ship at sea and they are definitely not set up to off load amphibious vehicles while underway.
A Chinese man, with a strong Chinese accent, seemingly introduces Chinese threats from a Western view, but actually proudly propagates China's successful military power. You can do it honestly, I will agree with you, so you haven't to be an internet troll.
Did you say "one at the stern and one at the aft of the ship" 😂
Those can be taken out fairly easily by unmanned surface naval vehicles though. You don't need torpedoes, subs, or missiles to take them out if they are used offensively, they are vulnerable to asymmetric warfare and need a good escort
This whole concept presupposes that Taiwan will just sit there doing nothing while 1000 RoRo ships are mysteriously headed their way for the first time ever, with radio silence.
You'd need to be as dumb as that wrestler where Bugs Bunny hands him a big slingshot and then pulls back on it and grabs a boulder, loads it into the slingshot, and then lets it go right into your face. That's pretty stupid.
Most modern warships even frigates and destroyers can be destroyed with a single antiship missile. See HMS Sheffield of farmland war. The way modern warships are built, they rely on not being hit.
Falklands
@@Lancaster604 Sink, sank, sunk.
All defense installations in Taiwan would be hit with missiles and drones in a saturation strategy especially near the landing zones. Then a naval blockade would be enforced. Only then will an amphibious landing commence under naval defence cover. This ain't Normandy bruh. There will be immense recon and surveillance.
RoRo ships are deathtraps. Most of the major incidents at sea in the recent past involve such ferries. They don't have enough bulkheads so damage spreads really easily.
This. Guns can easily sink these ships. Don't even need missiles.
And that doesn't even account for the heavy lifting they would be doing in the military capacity. AFVs, tanks, supplies, all of that weighs a lot more than passenger cars and travellers with some commercial trucks thrown in. They are dangerous enough without being shot at by any weapon system.
You guys missed the point. The fact that it's a 'civilian' ship means it's a huge political risk to declare open season on them. (Not saying they won't or they shouldn't). Imagine for example that China ensured that even a few - preferably the first few - were actually carrying civilians. The resulting hesitation gives them an initial advantage.
The main task of the roro ship are only transporting supply and equipment,not combat. And its operate behind enemy lines and with the escort of another warship like destroyer or frigate.
in the wartime this roro ship are probably will be upgraded with anti air system like a s400 or ciws
@@oldgreg315 exactly. theres gotta be some rules of war that says you can't hide as a civiliam, not that the CCP would follow them anyways
Your Maps are amazing as usual.
Thank you so much!!! It takes quite sometime to make them and I’m so happy to hear that❤️
Not an Invasion, but a reunification !!!!!! 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
C: Our secret weapon, is a transport ship that looks like a commercial ship.
Also C: Training amphibious assault using the secret ship.
Also C: 100s transport ship that turns off the transponder and moves to port. They won't dare to attack.
T: 🙄 Attack.😮💨
These ships are nicknamed roll on roll overs for a reason. They could be useful but they are going to need plenty of escorts.
Totally agree, or operate in relatively not contested maritime and air conditions
My first thought too. Ro-ro ferries have a tendency to capsize even when hostile nations aren't firing missles or torpedo at them. I can't imagine it would take much to sink them.
@@derrickfoster644 They can just use their coastal guns. If they could hit heavy tanks with one in WW2, a Cold War or more modern variant can make short work of a ro-ro ferry.
Hypothetically, it might be possible to detect a militarized RoRo ferry according to the cargo it is carrying. Presumably, a ship full of tanks and personnel would have a different sonar signature to one with solid boxes of packed cargo with a skeleton crew.
Or just the fact that it's being surrounded by military ships and cruising straight for Taiwan.
Why straight at Taiwan? China could try to time the weekly transport of "domestic" cargos on night-time paths that follows their coastal waters, and only make a turn towards Taiwan at a time that is suitable.
What I am saying is that China is likely to use subterfuge and weather conditions to increase the odds of successfully penetrating Taiwan.
Being able to spot out of place activities will be key to preventing Chinese aggression from bearing fruit.
@@SabinStargem no single ferry can carry 1/100th the military force needed to conquer Taiwan. Any amount of ferries massing is automatically suspicious. And the fact is that if China isn't incredibly stupid, and they aren't, they will need military escort, which is itself a complete giveaway.
It's fairly cost effective to lay a great many sea mines which listen for certain ships. The acoustic signature given out by props and hull shape / speed is quite specific. These mines now weigh a couple of tons so the damage done is enough to break a ships back in certain depth of water.
If China pushes it will be in a world of hurt that will take decades to fix.
Tanks are heavy - maybe 51 tons. I doubt that a civilian ship could carry them. Ships are built as lightly as possible.
after seeing the literal cracks in the newer PLAN aircraft carriers as well as the lack of actual use of real mil. assets- I assume these paper boats will get absolutely shredded by even basic munitions.
Oh those sneaky Chinese. Can’t trust them. None of them.
The comment section really shows how clueless people are and how they have no nuance at all
When did the PLN ever go by international rules?
What no? China has militarized these civilian ships for transporting and supplying its troops. These are dual use ships meaning they can function as either commercial or military ships. Shipping goods or shipping weapons.
Using civillian vehicle for military purpose isn't illegal
international rules made by US, and US even didn't sign to follow those rules?
PRC's use of ro-lo ferries for military transport has been studied previously...their use in military exercises has been reported on, so no news here....the Taiwan ports possible use in a China invasion is already noted....
China does NOT OBEY any Laws of the sea regarding civilian ships or fishing boats or resupply vessels used by the Philippines or other countries. China's Coast Gard has sunk more boats deliberately fishing in Pilipino Economic zones and those trying to re-supply their civilian and military outposts. The world now knows which supply military ships to donate to Davey Jones Locker.
This isnt a secret weapon, it's more like a very commonly known, and widly acknowledged bad option.
Contested amphibious landings are one of the most dangerous methods of moving troops into theatre, and that's WITH purpose built military landing craft, not repurposed or retrofitted civilian ferries.
Now, if the a beachhead has already been secured, and air superiority established, then yes, they could be useful as an auxiliary mass transport.
Unless the plan is to send 1,000 ferries and accept that most will be sunk, but HOPE that a few hundred will make it...
A RoRo Ferry would be just an unidentified blip on the radar screen, so in case of 'issues' would be an instant target, so can you imagine the effect of an anti-ship missile hitting one of these sitting ducks? Slava Tiawan.
that would give China a good excuse to declare war on Taiwan no?it would at the very least give China justification to attack and annex a couple of ports and territory in taiwan.....like crimea or the golan heights.
In fact why not hijack a couple of Air china jetliners and crash it into Shang hai world trade center or something?
Slava China,Russia,Brics and all the other countries in Africa, south america, middle east and parts of asia.....
Cringe bro
Slava Taiwan? Really dude? Christ man you should stay on reddit, keep that type of cringe there. (You didn't even spell Taiwan properly lol)
This is a horrible idea with massive loss of life….there’s no way if China undertook this they just wouldn’t be sending tens of thousands of both civilians and their own military to die.
I don’t want to ‘slavo’ anyone. If China does truly on their own accord try to invade Taiwan that’s one thing…but wishing for such an encounter that would likely escalate into outright world war (and likely nuclear war) is suicide.
We truly live in a dark timeline where so many have been brainwashed at this point to want war and believe that any government and country has our best interests at heart…
@@jonathanpusar5931 Almost all of them have somehow decided that either Communist nukes don't work or like my Dad that we'll just magically shoot them all down when not 2 months ago when that balloon was floating around the military admitted we don't have one single active missile group in the country. Woopsie daisy. The AEGIS though amazing has to be in the right spot and has only had limited tests. There will be hundreds of missiles with a dozen warheads each my Dad thinks 90%+ would get stopped though. I don't. Remember that drone at the start of the war that malfunctioned and then crashed in NATO territory when it finally ran out of gas? There was no radar to spot that. When the Ukrainians flew to Moscow and droned it there was no defense system to help them. MAD is still real.
Look at the Russian ship it was an AA ship and it got pwned by 2 missiles. I'm sures ours is better bla bla but how much better?
This is pretty much expected, most countries in this region including Indonesia, Japan Korea et al have wartime contingencies to use ferries to move troops. One give away is many have more installed horse power than is strictly needed for commercial activities. And that this contingency will only be a surprise to Americans. No other country in the world is rich enough and have the need enough to maintain a large sealift capability.
If ever the UK finds itself in need of moving large numbers of troops, such as moving our Army to reinforce NATO in Germany we would need to impress the entire cross channel Ro-Ro fleet to do so. Our name for this is STUFT (Ships Taken Up Frome Trade) because we're basically stuffed if we need to put this into action.
One thing we learned, relearned, is to differentiate between amphibious assault and amphibious transport. The assault ships should have the systems (most importantly the invisible electronic warfare ones) to defend itself. Ro-Ros have a place in supporting an already successful landing, but no place in the initial stages of a landing.
Their strategy is indeed, to ship law enforcement units, not to fight. Their main attack will be legal... (i.e., when all the major U.N. do not object to claim that Taiwan belongs to China, they will say: we're sending law enforcement units...). Suggest: scanning ships in China, before their departure, or making required checkpoint to check ship content nearby China's seashore, where Taiwan has islands. Don't let ships in without a check while far away from Taiwan's mainland.
I think that’s also part of their intention, to sort of blur the line of what is civilian and what is military.
Lol what? You think if China lands 1000 policemen on Taiwan they own the island? Taiwan's military would have something to say about that
The stern and the aft are the same area on any vessel. Copy should read stern and bow …
“Strategic ambiguity” is only strategic if you don’t care about your civilian population.
By using civilian vehicles for military purposes, you may get an initial advantage at the cost of all civilian vessels becoming targets.
That’s the kind of gambit desperate terrorists would attempt, not a country trying to convince the world it’s an emerging superpower.
I can confirm the RoRo ramps used by the Chinese pointed out in the video is very similar to ones used by US military (Military Sealift Command) boats in the Bobo-class style of ships
Thank you for sharing that. Do you think those ramps too could be used for amphibious ops?
Yes and no. US ships definitely have this capability, but we have fewer of them. We can definitely perform that function, but nowhere near the scale of a full-on Amphibious invasion like D-Day in WW2.
Hard truth is this: China can outbuild the US with all types of naval vessels.
Chinese ships may be of lower quality, but sometimes, sheer quantity has a quality of its own.
@stephendaley266 buddy, do some research; that hard truth is objectively false. 😂
The real advantage of a Ferry boat is that once 5 miles off shore the casino tables and slots can now operate which is signaled when the patio deck calypso band starts playing "Luck be a Lady". Also be sure to check out the new international buffet complete with carving station, tutti fruiti smoothie bar and tri-colored chocolate fountain (always a hit w/the kids)
The British Navy also used civilian ships to transport military assets during the Battle of the Falklands
The Falklands also had no naval and air defenses worth speaking of.
@Yora21 Yet they still sank British ships.
Minor detail: The "stern" and the "aft" are the same thing. I think you mean the bow.
It's believed when the Lusitania was sunk, it was being used for wartime purposes in shipping ammunition.
They are very large and will most likely be destroyed before they get to open water.
China will not attempt attacking Taiwan unless it controls the strait, negating access to the US. The USN still has the upper hand, but China for sure is working to close the gap.
@@CMaldonado1690The Chinese navy has more ships however they are mostly small coastal patrol boats. This will allow them to take the strait until the full USN arrives.
Do a video about the fishing fleet and the integration of military abilities
The chinese maritime militia and coast guard will likely play a part in the amphibious invasion of taiwan, they will likely help in transporting the army amphibious units to taiwan which would allow the chinese navy to stay east of taiwan and delay foreign intervention.
The USN operates non-military ships for logistics and supply.
Including special-purpose ships like the USNS Montford Point T-ESD-1 - an Expeditionary Transfer Dock. Which can tie up to a RORO ship at sea, so vehicles can driven off of and straight on to an Air Cushion Landing Craft.
RORO ships can transfer vehicles only onto a hard pier, and one only in a deep water port.
ESDs allow cargo to be offloaded at sea and delivered to any place where land meets sea at a modest gradient, across water, sand, marsh, gravel, etc.
Mitch McConnell, I don't think you're getting your ships back. LOL
"Ramps at the stern and ramps at the aft!" Lol!
China: even though we'll build up our ports with troops, APC's, Tanks, Artillery, no one will suspect an invasion on these ferries.
US: Satellites 👀 watching every move 😂
A US amphibious assault ship is designed for one Battalion of US Marines. The US also has pre-prepositioning ships that carry a wide range of vehicles and supplies for the US military. Then, the US owns the sky, always has. The Chinese Ro-ro ships would be destroyed either by missile or torpedo. They would not make it. Legit military target the moment CHina loads it with military equipment for combat.
Acutally Chinese civil war never end from 1949, Taiwan also sent a lot of troops to invade Mainland China in past decades, so don't mislead others if you have scense on history.
I heard that there needs to be more artificial reefs between Taiwan and China. These will work great. -US Navy
STUFT = ships taken up from trade. We did this in the Falklands war.
I doubt that China would be concerned the international rules of war in the event of an invasion. However, if they _did_ want to look like the good guys, there's no reason they couldn't just repaint the ships in preparation for action. There's plenty of value in having a fleet of warships which can serve a civilian purpose in peacetime.
It was an exercise how to ferry a large invasion force? The commercial ship cannot be mistaken as military ship with military purpose. Its glaring intent to invade😊
Nice bullseye target right in the middle of the "Ferry".
Warning to Bullies! Don't UNDERESTIMATE THE MIGHTY DRAGON!😮
This is why they are making trailer mount rocket systems. They will deploy fleets of IFV, APV, and other assault vehicles and then load the trailer mount rocket attack systems.
there is no blur here: when military operation starts, civilian ships are not allowed in the area, so they are legitimate targets if they dare to enter
"Nice ship you've got there.
Be a pity if "something happened" to it - like it hitting a torpedo and turning into a reef.............. "
😅
In the words of Gimli: "A mine". If I were Taiwan, I'd develop the ability to lay a TON of mines in the area. It'd be dead simple to, surreptitiously, get high fidelity acoustic signatures of all of these ferries. Program those into the mines, place them around the harbors and tell them to sleep until you hear one of the sounds from the "kill list".
it is so secret that we who saw this video will immediately forget all about it. Magic.....!
There's probably a dozen monster container ships from the PRC regularly docking in Taiwan.
Nifty digital artwork there; also the contents are very interesting
Thankyou for revealing the secret weapon on youtube!
Love the effort into the visuals as always!!
The ferries would only be useful once a port was taken or errected. That means these ships wouldn't come into play until the invasion is secure.
These Rolo's won't be a problem
They're definitely using World in Conflict intro strategy.
Problem with RORo's is they need port facilities and/or temporary floating docks and bridges to unload.
With todays technology those facilities are easy targets and on the West Taiwanese shore there aren't really that many locations where these temporary unloading facilities could be put in place.
If the stern ramps have been modified, as detailed in the video, then RoRos can launch all sorts of military hardware: Amphibious Craft and Vehicles (ATVs, APCs, AFVs, Landing Craft including Tank Landing Craft, Hovercraft Etc.), Trailer-Launched craft like High-Speed Boats and Ribs, or simply any small inflated craft like Zodiacs.
Lots of tactical options now for a RoRo/RoPax with a modified stern ramp (without the need for a dock of any kind).
I'd now start looking at PCTC/Car Carrier vessels for similar modifications. Their capacities would dwarf the capacities of RoRos discussed in this video!
⚓ 🚢 🛳 🚤🛶 🛥 ⛴ ⚓
scuttle one good size barge near the shore and you have a instant dock for the ramps
Wana bet that the optical/thermal/electronic signature of these ferries are pre-programmed into a quite a few Taiwan missile warheads
The RPG in a Taiwanese man’s back pocket; “Parry this you filthy casual”
Tracking the Ro Ro ships can be good practice (simulated) for those who would blow them out of the water.