Or at least USCSB's animation company. It's the same sort of deal--a relatively dry semi-technical presentation for those that don't necessarily need to dig into the deep details--but somehow USCSB makes it seem more like a short film (or a "Mayday!" episode), and this sounds like a second-year college student giving a powerpoint presentation to the class on a subject they don't really care about. Gonna get a lot more engagement by doing the former.
If a train details on a straight section of track anywhere except the front of the first car, the section of the train in front of it will apply forces that would tend to pull the train back onto the track. But even this was not enough. The train also needed the frog of the next junction to jump the wheel back over and into the track. (A frog is a section of the track that rises above the rest of the track to allow the train to jump onto an adjacent track. They are completely used at junctions where tracks merge. In this context, the frog just did exactly what it is normally designed to do, just with the opposite wheel from the one it would normally affect.)
Over the summer of 2021 I rode 7200 on the Yellow Line over the Potomac and I could feel the car shaking side to side meaning the wheels were oscillating. I was thinking to myself "this thing feels like it's going to derail and sooner or later they're going to find out and then what, remove all the 7000 series from service? They can't do that." A few months later that's exactly what happened...
@@tylerp6375 in aviation there's a bright dye applied to important joints that stains metal (and skin) very well. A few diagonal strips of the dye marker to the axle-wheel join will show as broken lines if the wheel migrates
Was the cause of the out of spec. wheel sets, usually due to the migration of, one of the wheels or both of the wheels? Are there brakes on these axles? When in use, is there a temperature difference between the axle and the wheel? When the wheels are pressed onto the axle, are any chemicals used to prevent migration (similar to a bearing retaining compound)?
Why can't these axles have some kind of attached stop beyond the wheel location on the outside, like an oversized cotterpin/bolt etc. This would prevent the wheel migrating at all. Even small engine equipment has this. I think this is ridiculous that they do not.
No one really knows at this point. Metro and Kawasaki are both blaming each other for this. It could honestly go either way in my opinion. Metro has a poor safety record, but US passenger rolling stock manufacturers have been putting out trains with serious defects for the past couple of years (Alstom's Avelia issues being the most notable)
This is almost certainly Kawasaki’s fault. Kawasaki made the cars, and since none of the other types of cars on the Metro have this problem, we know it’s not the track or anything else WMATA does.
@@michaelimbesi2314 Right, but it Kawasaki says "inspect the wheels every 30 days, lube this part and maintain this part" and WMATA is not doing that it's hard to blame Kawasaki.
@@gotacallfromvishal Yes, and we're talking about "migration" which is an expected condition of aging stock. That's why the manufacturer has an inspection and maintenance procedure for the assembly. If WMATA failed to inspect and correctly maintain the wheelset, chances are Kawasaki will be minimally culpable. WMATA may counter that the prescribed maintenance and inspection procedures and schedule were faulty or insufficient for the task, or that there is a manufacturing or design defect (the latter a tricky thing as WMATA is still using Kawasaki rolling stock)
They wherent self rerailing. The second frog of the cross over was rerailing them Then when hitting a switch that wasnt a cross over it stayed on the ground
These new trains are junk. Lots of huge problems, like this, wiring not to spec, and reliability. WMATA needs to cancel the order and find another manufacturer. This is just the beginning of the problems with these.
I'm sure that was a jarring ride for any passengers in that rail car! And the shocking thing is the 7000 series cars are the newest ones in WMATA's fleet.
Why are these width checks being ignored? 30/80 total out-of-limits sets before an accident requiring fleet checks is pretty poor, not the worst, but certainly a poor show. Are the engineers being over stretched? Are the bean counters cutting corners? Is the importance of this check being undervalued?
There's a difference between "out of spec" and "dangerously out of spec". You expect to find plenty of the former when performing maintenance, that's why you're doing it. You expect to catch everything while it is still only "out of spec" and before it gets to "dangerously out of spec" during maintenance. And unless you have some sign of stuff going "dangerously out of spec" between maintenance dates, that's it. Here, they got a sign and added extra checks in addition to the normal checks during regular maintenance.
@@HenryLoenwind that's a poor interpretation. If your maintenance is finding items out of spec you reduce the periodicity to increase the frequency or you have more stringent maintenance to keep the items in spec. Keeping things within specification keeps their failure modes predictable and thus "fail to known condition". Letting things go outside the calculated envelope leads to tragedy, they're lucky nobody died.
@@ThePlayerOfGamesI think we are using 2 different definitions of "spec". I was using "the value range it has to be within when manufactured or maintained to as-new condition". You are using "the value range it can safely wander from above between maintenances". You don't want those two ranges to be identical, or your maintenance interval would have to be 0 (the value WILL wander between maintenances). Any good machine will have both (or more) in its spec sheet. For example, the tread depth of the tyres on my car has a "prod spec" of ">6mm", a "maintenance spec" of ">3mm", and a "usage spec" of ">1.6mm". So when I bring in my car for service and the tyres have 2mm, that's out of "maintenance spec", but only in as far as it triggers maintenance (replacement) for those tyres. Was it to come in with 1mm, we'd look into why the tread depth reduced more than expected.
it took several minutes to determine the narrator was saying "widened wheel set" - every time it sounded like "waadin wheel set" as if it was a brand name or something - slow your speaking cadence and annunciate clearly when you have such a thick regional accent like that
Maybe it’s just me but maybe the NTSB can hire someone to do these voiceovers so we don’t have to try to concentrate what this man with a thick southern accent is actually saying.
Im not even American and i can clearly understand everything he is saying while watching this late at night with volume really low. Maybe the problem is on your end/ears. (you can turn on Subtitles if you have hearing difficulties)
The NTSB needs to get the Chemical Safety Board to animate its videos.
I was thinking the same thing.
Or at least USCSB's animation company.
It's the same sort of deal--a relatively dry semi-technical presentation for those that don't necessarily need to dig into the deep details--but somehow USCSB makes it seem more like a short film (or a "Mayday!" episode), and this sounds like a second-year college student giving a powerpoint presentation to the class on a subject they don't really care about.
Gonna get a lot more engagement by doing the former.
Yep!! I came here because I thought it would be like a Chemical Safety Board video. What a disappointment. 😅
GIMME THAT USCSB
NTSB × UCSB collab
This is exactly how the wheels on my HO-scale train cars behave. Derailed and then rerailed by a switch. I had no idea they were that realistic.
An accident that undid itself thats mathematically nuts.
If a train details on a straight section of track anywhere except the front of the first car, the section of the train in front of it will apply forces that would tend to pull the train back onto the track. But even this was not enough. The train also needed the frog of the next junction to jump the wheel back over and into the track. (A frog is a section of the track that rises above the rest of the track to allow the train to jump onto an adjacent track. They are completely used at junctions where tracks merge. In this context, the frog just did exactly what it is normally designed to do, just with the opposite wheel from the one it would normally affect.)
it's litterally the kind of deraillement and rerailing I get with my model trains, but in real life.
Tryin' to find something to tide me over til the next USCSB video and...
Can’t come soon enough!
Greetings, fellow nerds.
Very straightforward and transparent video.
Those 7000 series Kawasaki cars are really nice to ride in even with all the issues, glad there were no injuries
That hop when it rerailed was more than my school bus did when it went over a speed bump without slowing down
0:59 surveillance footage 2:08 animation
Over the summer of 2021 I rode 7200 on the Yellow Line over the Potomac and I could feel the car shaking side to side meaning the wheels were oscillating. I was thinking to myself "this thing feels like it's going to derail and sooner or later they're going to find out and then what, remove all the 7000 series from service? They can't do that." A few months later that's exactly what happened...
After pressing on with proper interference , tack weld the wheel to the shaft .
If the wheel migrates the tack weld will break and is easy to spot .
The tack weld will create a local heat affected zone which will be a crack starter, but some other method of marking isn’t a bad idea!
@@tylerp6375 in aviation there's a bright dye applied to important joints that stains metal (and skin) very well. A few diagonal strips of the dye marker to the axle-wheel join will show as broken lines if the wheel migrates
Was the cause of the out of spec. wheel sets, usually due to the migration of, one of the wheels or both of the wheels? Are there brakes on these axles? When in use, is there a temperature difference between the axle and the wheel? When the wheels are pressed onto the axle, are any chemicals used to prevent migration (similar to a bearing retaining compound)?
Has increasing the interference between the axle and wheels, completely solved the wheel migration problem?
Asking pertinent questions. I like the cut of your jib, son.
Y'all should partner with whoever makes the videos at USCSB
So, installing some type of laser measuring tool that could confirm the wheel spacing while at the yard daily isn’t possible?
Of course it is, but that costs money.
@@K-Riz314 Exact! But, guessing cheaper than Liability Insurance and settling Lawsuits!!!
They did install said systems after the incident.
Thank you for sharing.
I guess the USCSB has a higher budget for animation than then NTSB :-p
Why can't these axles have some kind of attached stop beyond the wheel location on the outside, like an oversized cotterpin/bolt etc. This would prevent the wheel migrating at all. Even small engine equipment has this. I think this is ridiculous that they do not.
This is interesting!
So did they come from the factory this way or is something causing the wheels to migrate? I have the sense we haven't found the root cause here
No one really knows at this point. Metro and Kawasaki are both blaming each other for this. It could honestly go either way in my opinion. Metro has a poor safety record, but US passenger rolling stock manufacturers have been putting out trains with serious defects for the past couple of years (Alstom's Avelia issues being the most notable)
@@MrFanatic33 did WMATA bring a civil claim against Kawasaki? And Kawasaki counter-claimed?
This is almost certainly Kawasaki’s fault. Kawasaki made the cars, and since none of the other types of cars on the Metro have this problem, we know it’s not the track or anything else WMATA does.
@@michaelimbesi2314 Right, but it Kawasaki says "inspect the wheels every 30 days, lube this part and maintain this part" and WMATA is not doing that it's hard to blame Kawasaki.
@@gotacallfromvishal Yes, and we're talking about "migration" which is an expected condition of aging stock. That's why the manufacturer has an inspection and maintenance procedure for the assembly. If WMATA failed to inspect and correctly maintain the wheelset, chances are Kawasaki will be minimally culpable. WMATA may counter that the prescribed maintenance and inspection procedures and schedule were faulty or insufficient for the task, or that there is a manufacturing or design defect (the latter a tricky thing as WMATA is still using Kawasaki rolling stock)
Self-rerailing trucks.... Very.... Useful?
They wherent self rerailing. The second frog of the cross over was rerailing them
Then when hitting a switch that wasnt a cross over it stayed on the ground
@@Shadowtiger2564 completely missed the joke
@@6777Productions it's not a joke if it's not funny
Maybe at some point i the future they should switch to standard gauge.
Very interesting. Will you guys be releasing an investigation into the Ohio derailment?
Of course they will the NTSB investigates all major derailments.
These new trains are junk. Lots of huge problems, like this, wiring not to spec, and reliability. WMATA needs to cancel the order and find another manufacturer. This is just the beginning of the problems with these.
I'm sure that was a jarring ride for any passengers in that rail car! And the shocking thing is the 7000 series cars are the newest ones in WMATA's fleet.
i think its more about maintenance and care rather than age or type mean anything can happen
Tragedy averted
Just deferred at the rate they’re going.
Why are these width checks being ignored? 30/80 total out-of-limits sets before an accident requiring fleet checks is pretty poor, not the worst, but certainly a poor show.
Are the engineers being over stretched? Are the bean counters cutting corners? Is the importance of this check being undervalued?
There's a difference between "out of spec" and "dangerously out of spec". You expect to find plenty of the former when performing maintenance, that's why you're doing it. You expect to catch everything while it is still only "out of spec" and before it gets to "dangerously out of spec" during maintenance. And unless you have some sign of stuff going "dangerously out of spec" between maintenance dates, that's it.
Here, they got a sign and added extra checks in addition to the normal checks during regular maintenance.
@@HenryLoenwind that's a poor interpretation. If your maintenance is finding items out of spec you reduce the periodicity to increase the frequency or you have more stringent maintenance to keep the items in spec.
Keeping things within specification keeps their failure modes predictable and thus "fail to known condition". Letting things go outside the calculated envelope leads to tragedy, they're lucky nobody died.
@@ThePlayerOfGamesI think we are using 2 different definitions of "spec". I was using "the value range it has to be within when manufactured or maintained to as-new condition". You are using "the value range it can safely wander from above between maintenances". You don't want those two ranges to be identical, or your maintenance interval would have to be 0 (the value WILL wander between maintenances). Any good machine will have both (or more) in its spec sheet.
For example, the tread depth of the tyres on my car has a "prod spec" of ">6mm", a "maintenance spec" of ">3mm", and a "usage spec" of ">1.6mm". So when I bring in my car for service and the tyres have 2mm, that's out of "maintenance spec", but only in as far as it triggers maintenance (replacement) for those tyres. Was it to come in with 1mm, we'd look into why the tread depth reduced more than expected.
it took several minutes to determine the narrator was saying "widened wheel set" - every time it sounded like "waadin wheel set" as if it was a brand name or something - slow your speaking cadence and annunciate clearly when you have such a thick regional accent like that
Try the Caption Option, it helps with a variety of speaking styles.
Ah understood ‘im jess fahn! 😊
What I want to know is why this video took _more than 2 years_ to produce and release.
investigations into even benign stuff like this take quite a bit of time
Deep stateCLASSIFIED information of a train at the usa capital region.. Yep... Ghangster hop coverups
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Maybe it’s just me but maybe the NTSB can hire someone to do these voiceovers so we don’t have to try to concentrate what this man with a thick southern accent is actually saying.
a red neck train headed toward the capital... Sooo.. Who Berni
Im not even American and i can clearly understand everything he is saying while watching this late at night with volume really low.
Maybe the problem is on your end/ears. (you can turn on Subtitles if you have hearing difficulties)
What about the rails themselves? With 80 wheelsets wider than specs pressing rails apart every pass, would the rail ties get stretched / damaged?
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