Optimize Your Electronic Drums For On Stage - Improve Sound At Gigs - Part One | The eDrum Workshop
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2019
- Learn how to optimize your eDrums for on stage. Today we talk approach to sound and how to use reference points to fine tune your kit before you turn up to the gig.
Part 2 - • Issues When Using Elec...
I remember when I first started playing edrums live. Had to eq them completely differently every single time. Came as a really surprise to me lol. Now I've come to expect it, always gotta get there early to really dial in the sounds. The td30 has a sounds check mode, so it just plays by itself forever. It's very useful, lets me walk into the audience seating durning sound check.
I always highly recommend dbx DriveRacks to our customers who battle constant venue mixing. I always used one when gigging, and it saved a TON of time. You generally get your preferred mix at rehearsal, and then just run something like a DriveRack at gigs to EQ the venue. It dials in your needed EQ adjustments for the room in about 1-2 minutes, and you're pretty much golden. There was extremely little adjustment needed with this type of unit. If you're still gigging, check one out some time. ;)
Yeah, it was a surprise to me when I first started running my electronics live too. I'd gone from someone else taking care of the entirety of the FOH sound with my acoustics to needing to do all of it with the eDrums, so it was quite the learning curve. And definitely, I use the same feature on the TD-50 when needed too. Sometimes you can tell right away from the stage that it's going to sound off and need to go check yourself!
I really ought to check one of those DriveRacks out sometime, Alan. Cheers for the suggestion! Sounds like it could take quite the load off. And make my content unnecessary ;)
@@VExpressionsLTD Considering you use the same PA you use at rehearsals, correct?
Would like to see a video live gig with td50 with Superior Drummer to front of house and maybe equipment needed for separate outs.
Great video, thanks! For age & declining health & strength reasons, I’m no longer able to carry heavy acoustic drums, stands & cymbals, but I still want to gig, as I’m still able to play well when sitting, so don’t want to retire just yet. I’ve recently purchased & learning how to use & tweak a Roland SPD-SX PRO to suit my needs & sounds & I’m also going to install samples of my acoustic kit & others from Toontracks, Kurt Rock & GarageBand & create kit sounds to suit different bands & songs etc. Can you please do a video showing how to set up a Roland SPD-SX PRO with a PA? Many thanks for such a great channel!
My bands drummer is using an E kit and I've been using midi into a steven slate VST. I've pretty much taken the decays off all the transients and muted sends to any room mics or overheads aside from the cymbals. Once the PA is cranked to the level of a real drum kit, it still sounds distinguishable but it's much closer to a real kit sound.
I was blown away at how different my edrums sounded through a pa vs headphones at first. I’ve been doing some thinking about the whole moving air concept of edrums or lack thereof... I’ve got a 15 inch powered pa speaker next to me which moves a pretty good amount of air. I think this has a lot to do with me liking my edrums live. I totally agree on the toms being too resonate and too much reverb on the snare. I usually just bring my ambiance way down if not totally out of the mix...
I genuinely appreciate all you’re well thought out content, looking forward to the next video
I agree that getting the air moving adds a lot to the experience. Any time we've played with little to no monitoring besides in-ears, there's a discernable difference in feel!
Hiyas, great channel. Yours and 65 drums really really helpful. I do have a question. I’m going to use my porter and davies gigster with my Yamaha dtx 10. Any ideas how I run/connect this? I’m cool when using with my acoustic, never done it with an e kit…
Luke I would really like to see where to find some experience with the Direct out for my TD-50X so I can have at least some reference as to setup to FOH
Please share how you monitor mix a EKit that doesn't have separate DI outs or AUX out.
Another great video. I think even if you use the TD50 with direct outs, you should still work on testing with PA, just helps when you arrive and have a great mix ready to send before FOH gets it.
Thanks, really appreciated! Oh yeah, definitely! Anything you can do to dial things in enough beforehand is going to be a bonus, even if you have an engineer. I just often feel the need to add disclaimers just in case people think their setup will make a point null haha!
Generally, you don't need any reverb on edrums playing through a PA, the room often has enough of that. Also, I find that I need to take the treble down a bit when cranking the module's volume up through a pa, with headphones I need to turn it up a few notches. Depends on the headphones of course. Sound guys are generally very happy with the sound quality and ease of use with just one of two cables to the mixer and there you have it - studio quality stereo sound.
agreed. i play my kit as dry as possible. the artificial reverb is just to make earbuds/headphones sound like in-room. but it's redundant if the sound is actually in the room
@@360.Tapestry 👍🏻
So is there a suggested eq, and compression, room, and reverb setting for edrums live through a PA anywhere?
Hi, nice tips! Im glad i found this channel. Im planing to play live (small stage and clubs) using TD17 module. Can you make a video how to aprouch and set up this kind of module to go live?
Hey! Thanks! Unfortunately I don't have access to a TD-17 to try out myself so I can only really give general advice like what is found in this video.
There is a counterpart video to this one called "Common Electronic Drum Problems Solved - Optimize Your eDrums Part 2" that could help too if you haven't seen it!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanks I just watched it, it is what I was looking for :).
I'm also wondering if the impact sound of the pads is an issue? (Rubber hitting sound)
Do you mean if it is a problem when playing live? Normally, no - if there's some separation between you and the audience, so you're properly behind the speaker system and the audience aren't too close, there are no issues at all. If you're playing in a very small space where the audience are on the same level as you and right in front of you (I've played some small parties where the audience are almost in the band's performance area), there's more of a chance of it being a problem. These situations are quite rare and as long as your PA/speakers have enough power, it probably won't be too bad.
Recently joined a band of older, veteran players. They mentioned that there seemed to be too much reverb when I was trying out. I'm on a TD17 kit, and I'm planning on playing then live. I am doing what I can to dry the sound up a bit and hoping that it goes in the right direction. Also, I enjoy switching kits on the module for different songs, so I'm thinking there is quite a lot of work involved in getting each one to sound decent live. I'm wondering if I will end up upgrading the module to get more control. Time will tell.
Its nice having faders for the individual triggers on the higher end modules.
do you have any videos or have seen any videos showing how to optimize your kit step by step?
Hi Luke, thanks, great explanation. Which of your packs is best for live band playing through a PA with a sub?
Hi Richard. All of them can be used through a PA live if you're happy to turn off some of the ambience settings (onboard ambience can make things "muddy" through a PA with real room reflections happening too). Unfortunately you haven't specified which module you use here though, so it's difficult to recommend anything specific.
i play a roland td11 live through a very basic church pa system. i just assumed how it sounds was as good as it was ever going to sound. boy, was i surprised at how crisp and snappy the kit sounds through a pair of shure iems lol maybe running a line directly to the mixer could render a similarly clean sound (as opposed to mic-ing up the other pa speaker used as a drum amp lol - i did not have a hand in rigging this up)
I also play drums in church. I use an old second-hand Roland TD3 kit going through a very old also second-hand Carlsbro keyboard amp. I also hope to use my new Roland SPD-SX PRO in our lounge for evening services. I hope you’re enjoying your set-up. It’s truly a privilege to worship instead of perform. ✝️🥁🛐⛪️
@@geminigemini336 yes, i've grown a lot spiritually since doing this. and i'm also a lot more consistent on the kit thanks to the regular practice, performing, and upskilling (i'm just ok - nothing impressive lol). plus, i used to have terrible stage fright, now i just have mild stage fright lol
Hey was wondering, i have a DM10 it has 2. 1/4" main outs and a headphone out. Which one should i send to the soundman? And do i need a DI box?. Thanx. Another great vid'!
Thanks, much appreciated!
Always use the main outs for sending it to the engineers, not the headphones output. Headphone output signals are usually "hot" in order to push the volume for your headphones, the front of house will want line level which is the main 1/4" outs!
As for a DI box, one or two will be needed to get the signal to the FOH - there's stereo DI boxes and mono DI boxes, so if you used both outputs, you'd need either one stereo or two mono. Usually engineers have them (especially if you make note of needing them in your tech spec), but if you're unsure with the venues you play or are doing your own sound, having your own DI box(es) might be useful. Hope that helps!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop thanx mate. Cheers'!
Great videos, very good info. Between you and Justin at 65 Drums, really the authority on edrum gear and sound, so thanks to you both. I'm consistently struggling getting good live sound with my e-drums (whether though TD-30KV, midi into SD3, midi into Ableton Live drum rack, Alesis Strike MP, etc.)... I've done quite a bit of (amateur) EQ'ing.. but everything out of the drums just sounds so 'wimpy" even through my band's JBL 15" PAs. So now I'm toying around with the idea of a subwoofer and a crossover. Just splitting out the low end (
A sub should add some serious low end as long as the kit is outputting it, yeah. Definitely keep persevering with EQ though - PAs and headphones are very different beasts. With my band, if we provide our own PA for gigs, we have 2 subs - one on each side. I couldn't imagine running a full PA without subs for a full band, to be honest. You need something that is dedicated specifically to moving all that low end when it comes to drums and especially eDrums.
I don't personally use a sub in my stage monitoring setup though (as I run in-ears as well), but I know some people do. Can help with sound reinforcement if necessary the kit the isn't throwing out its own volume, but it's certainly not a necessity and can sort of defeat the point of having a quieter stage.
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Thanks for the reply Luke, really helpful! Yes this would be just for FOH. Pads triggering SD3 on a macbook, which is output to an X32 mixer, using the X32's matrix crossover function to split the lows (aux out) to the sub, and highs (main out) to the main PA. I haven't hooked it up yet but will let you know. My monitors BTW are IEMs, and I also recently started using a buttkicker which is just amazing.
BTW any recommendations on powered subs for the PA?
You're welcome! To be honest, I can't recommend any powered subs as I've not tried any personally - our PA tops and subs are passive and I can't even remember what brand it is off the top of my head! I'd be inclined to match up the brand of the subs with the tops in your position, just to keep things simple, but that's mostly because PAs aren't really an area I have done a lot of research into beyond my own needs. The benefit would probably be that they've been designed to work well together and they might even have a crossover built in that is optimal for those specific speakers when hooked up correctly. Good luck with it, whatever you decide to do!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Awesome, thanks again.
Hey Luke, I thought I'd come back and let everyone know I bought an Alto TS318S 2000W sub, and it's been a game changer - it literally shakes the house at 1/3rd volume, and I imagine once we get back out there, they'll be no shortage low end projecting from the stage. From my Roland TD-30 I'm taking the bass drum from TD-30 Direct output (and floor toms) into its own channel on the mixer, then seperately EQ'd a 200hz out to the main PA. Sounds amazing, and with some additional tweaking of the EQ and compression fx bus... really close to real drums. Thanks again for the advice 4 mos ago! Cheers!
I hav yam dtx3 with ms50 dr n the 2 satelite speakers thaface me. which i got bak in day brand new n i still luv.. .i wan add 2 mor sat,speakers so 2 can face away from me pointin towards other musicians who jam in my liv rm.is there a 4way splitter to combine this .as ms50 only has input for only 1 speaker set..thks.
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with that speaker system so I couldn't really say, to be honest :(
Thanks for the video! Concerning the Mimic Pro, when you talk about rolling off Reverb, tom resonance, etc. - was one of your steps (When you got to referencing on your band PA in the rehearsal space) to go under the KIT FX for your entire kit and engage the low frequency shelf and take out a huge chunk of low end to get clarity? Conversely the same with the high-end shelf? Raise or lower to get clarity? Any particular frequency and dBs you did let me know! Also did you find a good overall Compression setting whether in KIT FX or for each instrument individually to get them to be all evened out? Thanks mate!!!
I didn't do any major EQ to the entire kit for the Mimic, no. It would be a bit too drastic to cut all the low end or boost all of the high end, you will get much better clarity and full kit cohesion with EQing individual drums. So you could go into the EQ on the rack tom mics (my Mimic is away for repair so don't have exact settings to hand), and roll off the low end a bit on those specific drums. You want to leave the low end on things like the kick drum and the floor tom, as they rely on that for sound. If you want to boost clarity, again you ideally want to go into specific drum mics. Maybe add a bit of high end to the toms to get a bit more attack from them, or lower the room mics and boost the direct mics. This would bring the attack and punch out without sacrificing tone, whilst also helping tame excess resonance.
So yeah, working on the individual drums and the room mics will add up to a better sound at the master. As for compression, it's going to be to taste but I'd keep the same approach, if you want aggressive compression, do that more at the drum level than the master level. I avoid too much master compression for the same reason. Gentle master comp allows for the "glue" feeling, it ties the sound together, but too much squashes the sound to an unnatural level that sounds good on a recording but not as a live band - it sucks the energy out. Hope this helps a bit, sorry I couldn't be a bit more specific as I don't have the module to hand. Will hopefully get it back early next week.
Quick question, what do you do when your module is “away for repair “ do you have a back up or are you just out of business. I ask because I’m starting to get some wear and tear issues (mostly on my cymbals at this point) and I’m trying to formulate some strategies...
I'm in a very fortunate position where I currently have both the Mimic and TD-50. So while the Mimic is away I can use the 50. I planned to sell it not long after getting the Mimic but as I started having issues early on, I kept hold of it and I'm glad I did! Unsure of what I'll do when it's back, having both is useful in different ways and it's good for the videos.
As for your issue, it's a tough one to plan for without just having spares available. Other options I guess could be repurposing other pads for the time being if you have any you can sacrifice, or picking up cheap piezos for a slapdash conversion until you get the others sorted.
We have an electric drums at church and it doesnt sound the way it should. Whenever we are playing with other instrument the sound of the electric drums in the PA decreases its output sound and when it is played alone it will sound loud on it own. What is the possible problem of our set up. Thank you in advance for those who will answer. God bless
Sounds like a compression / limiting threshold issue on your main mix
Where's Part TWO? Did it get taken down?
There's a link in the description for part 2!
@@TheeDrumWorkshop Ah, I see. Sorry about that! Cheers
If you play an acoustic drum kit on stage, you have the same problem, just worse. I have never played myself on stage (yet) but I was in the audience often enough. The two most common PA sins are a snare drum which is smashing everything else to smithereens and the keyboarder nearly impossible to hear. So just wondering where the guy on the knobs has lost his hearing. But the really, really big advantage to edrums - you can just tell them to play by themselves and go down and hear for yourself. Which is kinda hard for an acoustic set. And then it depends if you can persuade that guy on the knobs to do what is neccessary ...
it can be difficult when not everyone is on the same technical skill level when it comes to sound and equipment