Zemo getting the last laugh, it was a nice surprise for his arc. The fact that he accepts the consequence of the bombing where King Wakanda dies is also interesting.
I actually thought US Agent had a better arc and served as a better antagonist than Karli and the Flag Smashers, even though he had around half of the screen time by comparison. Hats off to Wyatt Russell for a solid performance. And facepalm to the internet for trashing him for being a such a good actor they forgot he wasn’t US Agent in real life.
Kari was plain and boring. US Agent is technically more of an anti-hero than a villain as he is not exactly a terrible person. He has a shitty attitude that makes him petulant but he’s more of a “Jason Todd/Red Hood” vigilante than a villain. He had a deep story arc ans you can ACTUALLY relate to him. With Karli not so much, she went full villain midway through the show
He was leaps and bounds better. I personally couldn’t stand Karli’s character in the show. I would sigh and facepalm every single time she was on screen. Truly unbearable. Its sad that I felt that way in a show that i generally liked. The flag smashers and their entire arc was easily my biggest con.
That was exactly my take away from that line. It was Walker defending his friend, especially as both Karli and Walker had killed each others friend. There was nothing racial about it, that was left to other areas of the story.
It was probably there to resonate on multiple levels, so i think J and Dan are both right on this one, but yes, the way it hit me was mainly that it was the loss of a best friend that matters, since that was within the immediate context of the scene.
Exactly. I thought it was a perfect dialog exchange that had nothing to do with race. It goes a little way to help rehumanize him after the events in the town square. His bits in this episode seemed to give him a bit of a redemption/maturity arc as far as choosing to save the hostages instead of pursuing Karli, his expression when Sam delivered his speech at the end, etc. He's still twitchy and conflicted, so they can play it however they want going forward. I thought Wyatt Russell did an outstanding job in the part and wow, does he look like his parents or what!?!
One thing I liked was a specific character beat between Sam and Bucky: If you’ve ever been in a position where you are friends with someone only because you and they share a common very close friend it can be really hard to build an independent friendship on its own merits with that person once your common friend is gone. At the beginning all they had in common was “ Hey we both know Steve.” But by the end montage it was very clear these two are now just as close as they ever were with Steve but it’s now built on affection and respect for each other and not the shared history with Steve.
Personally I think that they should have opened with sam and Bucky rebuilding the boat.. it would have made their relationship more believable... you could imagine Bucky being drawn to sam after steve died... and sam feeling like he needed to look out for Bucky... being surrounded by salt of the earth type folk, could have worked it's way into his coming to terms with his winter soldier past... then theyd have a reason to go and fight the flag smashes together... instead of the "just because" that we got when Bucky randomly showed up to board sams military plane... I didnt think that their banter or bickering was earned at the start it just felt weird... and when I was watching the final scenes of the series I found myself saying... these are the scenes we needed at the start...
I know this line might be a bit overused, but when Karli was beating up Sam and asked him why he wouldn't fight back, I was kinda expecting him to reply with " I can do this all day"
nice line but in that scene, sam said "i won't fight you". steve also used this exact same line too in ca:tws, when bucky tried to kill him in that helicarrier
I think they intentionally waited a beat to make the audience think that he would say that but I'm glad he didn't because I want Sam to be his own hero and not just Steve 2.0. The Captain America movies got a lot of mileage out of reusing the same dialogue again and again (especially in relation to Steve and Bucky) and I believe that now is the time for a fresh slate.
I actually quite liked the John Walker pivot. I like that in the end, he did not end up being the total villain everyone thought he was going to end up as. This is how I read John Walker's arc in this series and why I kind of like him as an imperfect model of a hero. The main takeaway I get from John Walker is that though he was not the right man to be Captain America, it does not mean that he still is not capable of being a hero. He's also a soldier constantly dealing with PTSD and regrets on the battlefield despite everyone telling him he's the best and that he did all he could. When he loses Battlestar (Lamar), he loses his moral compass and he understandably lashes out at the loss. I think John believed that if he took the Super Soldier Serum he would be "invincible," to some degree: that being a super soldier would give him the power to serve, save, and protect. Unfortunately for him, he takes it, and still is not strong enough to save his best friend and that breaks him for a bit. Ultimately though, the finale proved Lamar was right, more power did make John more of himself. It made him more emotional and magnified his regrets, but it also powered up the soldier and heroic heart Walker still carried within. That's why when presented with the choice to pursue Carli for revenge, and save the lives of the people who took the Captain America title away from him, he ultimately chooses to save people. He chooses to sacrifice personal gain and satisfaction for the sake of others. So John Walker is not the perfect hero and is not a moral paragon, but that does not mean his longing to be a hero and to do the right thing is not without merit.
Finally someone who understands him for who he is. The amount of hate on him is insane. Also, if I remember, Peter Parker is not the right man to be Iron Man as well but we all love him being the hero as Spider-Man.
The fact he regretted things he did, is not an excuse to keep doing it (killing that guy), For me, he can well be a self absorbed soldier, who would go over the top to achieve his goals and hide his mistakes behind accolades. There is nothing to make us believe he wants to "serve, save and protect" more than be in the spotlight. He is no devil, but no hero either, just a dubious human, but I really didn't like the last look he gave to Captain America.
@@nont18411 Do I really need to explain the difference between killing in the heat of battle and a explicit execution? So, Walker being the only "hero" expelled in shame and stripped off his honours in entire marvel universe is just amateurish writing? Is that your only point to what I said? You can do better, mate.
@@WrambleOn You can tell by the use of ADR in many of the Flag Smasher scenes. Theres so much important dialogue is said off screen or through news casts.
Fun fact: Isaiah’s house in the show is on the street that dead ends into the house where MLK was born. You can actually see the MLK house behind Sam’s right shoulder in episode 5 when he’s outside on the street.
I think one reason why Bucky was always kind of anti-Walker came down to a simple fact. He knew he was off. Bucky said it himself, he knows crazy because he's a bit crazy. And that gives us insight. Bucky knows Walker isn't worthy to be Cap, because Bucky isn't worthy. It's not really a saying Walker is bad guy, that's the difference.
Surely the fact the serum is used so much here, shows the various ideas, thoughts and adaptations of it it can have. It’s the thing that links all the stories together, rather than have 4 different plots that have no reason to compare and see the contrast. Also, I personally prefer the US Agent story, to just making him another ‘he just went crazy’ villain.
@@jamesjohnston1297 the plot was the first episode!!!... kidnapped Officer + Serum!... Karli and the Falcon (intentionally and unintentionally) Sabotaging Sharon's plan.
It was surprising and refreshing to see obvious social commentary in this show. To me, it had much more to say than I'm usually expecting. Hopefully we get a second season--I want more Louisiana cookouts!
I thought they did such a good job in the finale at bringing Sam to the forefront and making him the new Captain America! I can't believe it has already been 6 weeks since it began and I really did enjoy this show overall! Now on to Loki!👀🙌
Absolutely. I think in the long term this series is as much about Zemo as about the two leads. Actually, Zemo in my view was the most interesting part of the whole series...
I think many people completely missed the relationship with Zemo and Bucky. Probably because there was so much going on and it was never really stated outright. But their ending scene was one of my favorites in the show.
I thought "I failed twice" linked to him talking about WW2 and Thanos rather than him fighting for Hydra. That was never a choice fight. I may have interpretated the comment incorrectly. There was definitely a big plot cut that they just didn't have time/money to completely reasses, so just worked around.
I think Dan’s just referring to the fact that Bucky never really stopped fighting, rather than the two bigger fights Bucky was specifically thinking of, ww2 and thanos
Really, really enjoyed it. Like Dan said, the biggest and most important takeaway from both shows is how good a job they did developing the title characters. I look forward to more US Agent, most likely hunting Skrulls. Wish there'd been a Thunderbolts setup!
@@NorthernSeaWitch Yeah, I think/hope Val is putting together a Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers team to deal with the Skrull invasion because she can't trust any established heroes, who'd be targets.
@@bluepearl_22 When have the writers used it as a "fakeout". All I've been hearing on the subject are fan theories. Also, Skrulls revert back to Skrulls when they die. So, where has there been a Skrull "fakeout". The only confirmed Skrulls misdirect was in SM:FFH and, that was at the end of the movie.
In order for Secret Invasion to work, we need at least 1-2 characters we know to be revealed to have been Skrulls. I don't think the Sharon we know would go in the direction she did in this series, so her being a Skrull makes total sense
@@justinking7212 It would also help explain how Sharon became the power broker if she had been dusted by Thanos' snap and only returned 6 months ago. A Skrull could have assumed her identity 5 years ago, allowing plenty of time to build up the Madripoor operations.
I made that comment this morning. Hell have no furry like a woman scorned and being dumped by time by time travel for your aunt would cause the ultimate scorn.
I mean, how would she even know that? It's not public knowledge that Steve went to an alternate timeline. The public seems to mostly think he's dead and it's clear that even people in the government (see the senator asking if Cap wasn't on the moon in the last episode) don't know what happened to him. I don't see why Sam or Bucky would share that with anyone.
@@madsgrams2069 given that they haven't made clear what happened to Steve but Bucky and Sam keep talking about him and behaving as though he is dead, my belief is that after he gave the shield to Sam, he went back to his alternate timeline with Peggy and their kids. As such, I don't think he would have had time to track down Sharon in Madripoor to tell her what happened.
What a great series. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Were there slight nitpicks? Yes, of course, nothing is perfect but there were so many great moments that any little things I might not of liked were completely overshadowed. I know the main storyline of the Flagsmashers was cut out but I think the shift to focus on the journey of Sam becoming Cap worked more than a tradition good vs bad storyline. Hope for more from this new duo.
One thing that I saw about Bucky that none of the reactioners that I follow have mentioned. When Bucky did some light flirting with Sarah it showed that the man he was before becoming the Super Soldiers was resurfacing. Remember, Bucky went out on a date with two women in the Cap Movie when they were introduced. He was a major ladies' man. I can't believe how many have overlooked those moments.
Another thing. Does anyone else think that Bucky got SEVERELY watered down and nerfed? He is still enhanced and is almost as skillful in h2h combat as Steve To the point that he’s able to fend off T’Challa. But lately, since Infinity War, he just doesn’t do much it gets his ass whooped by absolute BUMS like the flag smashers
@@_jolie_ She was never interested in Steve. LOL!! It was his way of being a player while looking like he was taking care of his friend. LOL!! He did go dancing with both women when Steve went to enlist again. She didn't seem phased at all.
@@ElPresidenteMargz It's true... to be fair in Civil War he had planned his escape route out of his building a while before, he was ready for it, and maybe his best skills fade away as he breaks out of the brainwashing
I enjoyed both this and Wandavision. I do think this one stuck the landing better, pun intended. In Wandavision when Wanda was told "they'll never know what you did for them" I cringed so hard that I basically snapped out of enjoying the show at the end. But I think this one handled its messaging better. You covered a lot of the same feelings I had. I will say, I particularly loved the line where Sam said "nobody is asking *why*" or whatever. I think it's a point that needs to be addressed especially when talking about terrorism, it's an issue that doesn't come from nothing. No matter how heinous, there are still conversations we can have about what we can do to prevent it (hint: dropping less bombs might help). I was legitimately and pleasantly surprised to see a Disney property address this, even if it was not the deepest or most well-executed take.
John Walker still had the angry and hate-filled mentality going into the finale. When he showed and called out to Karli, he didn't give a damn about the GRC reps that were in the truck, one of which was burning. He was seeing red and was the broken man that had snapped at the end of Episode 4. But when the truck was going over the edge, they clearly showed him faced with a choice, where he looked down and saw Karli there, in his reach, but the truck was about to go over the side. The next shot was him dropping his shield - letting go of the shield - to save the people that need saved rather than pursuing his vengeance. It may not have been a multiple-episode character arc, but it was a really well done arc. That moment when the shield drops was all he needed to say to redeem himself. That's when Bucky and Sam accepted him again.
10:10 It was a very packed show and that does make it hard to do every character justice. But, with the Flasgsmashers specifically, I believe it was leaked that there was originally a storyline involving bioweapons and a virus that had to be cut for obvious reason.
24:00 Nope! She was a surprise to everyone! It had been rumored that there would be a very well-known actress playing a comic book character in episode 5, but it had not leaked who it was or what character she'd been playing.
He's not a psychopath, he's a soldier. So are Sam and Bucky, but unlike Sam, he isn't able to always see the greater good in people and keep fighting for it, especially when it conflicts with his mission. And unlike Bucky, he already considers his appointment to Captain America/USAgent as atonement for his past actions. So sometimes he's able to do the right thing and save the civilians instead of chasing his friend's murderer, and sometimes he makes the wrong choice like murdering a surrendering rebel. I don't think Bucky was particularly fond of him either, he might just understand that Walker isn't evil, but has his own demons to deal with which make him the wrong person to be Captain America. Same reason why Sam gives Walker a nod after his Cap speech: understanding where he is trying to help ("you made a mistake"), even though he often goes about it the wrong way.
@@lifeasafanpodcast9529 it was the moments for me! As if Steve Rogers was looking from afar, knowing full well this was going to happen! (Sam Revealed as New Captain!) The look was Amazing I cried🥺🥺🙏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
RE: Karly & Mama Donya feeling like it has something missing. There is a reason for that, and its the same reason for everything these days; the panoramic. And I don't just mean shooting schedule disrupted. From what I hear, the original script had a Viral Outbreak component (see episode 2 with vaccines being transported, weird instances of ADR before Zemo shoots the scientist), that was taken out for sensitivity reasons. Due to real world events.
I don't mind the ending with John Walker so much, he's a generally good guy that lost it when his best friend died. I think they gave him some slack because of that and you can see he still wants to help.
Seems obvious Val is going to assemble the Thunderbolts, leading to an Avengers vs Thunderbolts showdown, possibly resulting in Young Avengers taking over
I also felt the same way about the Zemo mask. He was so excited to grab it to use for 10 minutes lol. Promotional material made me feel he was gonna wear it to the shower even.
I did not even catch that the first time I watched it. Good call on the title change, but it would have been even more impactful if after they showed the new title it also said "will return".
I think "Captain America and Bucky Barnes" would have been better. I feel like Buck's arc is as much putting the Winter Soldier behind him as Sam's arc is going from Falcon to Captain.
So I revisited that scene in the finale. When he says 'I tried and failed to fight for something bigger than me - twice'. I'm pretty sure he's not referring to Hyrda at all. That was the Winter Soldier. I took it to mean when he tried to defend Wakanda and the entire world and ended up just getting dusted. Wouldn't make sense for Bucky to say he 'tried' for Hydra.
Had to think about that one for a sec as well. Obviously he meant his mission in WW2, first. But I figured the second thing he failed at was either succeeding as a brainwashed soldier (but why would current Bucky care about that) or failing in Infinity War (hard on himself--there was nothing he could've done to stop Thanos). It's gotta be his defeat in Infinity War.
Here is why you need the super soldier serum plot. So all these nerds can see Sam Wilson handle himself as a superhero without the serum. That’s all I saw after Endgame, “why didn’t Bucky get the shield? He has the super soldier serum. He is the only one who can handle the shield.” Sam Wilson doesn’t need it.
I'm with you but...yes he does. Watching some of the scenes where Sam was faced with a Super Soldier where annoying to watch because you have that strange divide where if they were fighting Bucky they'd be trying to break him in half. When fighting Sam it's like they're pulling punches. I'd rather he just not fight threats like that if he can't just shoot them or something because the fighting looks ridiculous.
The Flag smasher's was "what can happen when the wrong ppl get the serum!"... The main story is Sharon and the follow on to the Movies coming!!! The first Episode was forgotten, about Sharon trying to Kidnap the (perfect) Soldier! Before Karli and the Falcon sabotaged the plans (one intentionally and the other unintentionally)
Isaiah Bradley's reaction to the exhibit... Carl Lumbly killed it with that quiet performance 😭 (Endgame, WandaVision now this; what is it with Marvel and teary finales?) On a high note, I clapped so~ hard when I saw the "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" end title. BTW Love the new Cap outfit...but he really needs proper headgear. I know that this is a nod to the comics but half masks are totally impractical.
Sadly, since the pandemic came around causing the storyline that they originally had for the Flag Smashers to be changed, it did leave them less sympathetic. But if the original storyline had been kept in regarding a manmade virus released in the GRC camps it would have been much clearer why so many would have been willing to join them and die for the cause better to realize.
Yeah, there were elements re written in the flag smashers for sure. Tough position to be in. That storyline sounds great, but too close to literal current events, for comfort. I can already see how people could twist the narrative to justify unfavorable actions. Like the show was purposefully making a statement on the event, not the idea. But it’s also interesting how lately more than ever, it seems life imitates life. Comics have been used to explore complex ideas all the time, perfect fantasy medium for it
To Dan's very eloquent point, "You get a super soldier! You get a super soldier! EVERYONE GETS A SUPER SOLDIER!!!!" Update: I just got to the "you get a serum" part of the video lol.
I really agree with pretty much everything said, but I think Zemo was important. The scene where he can steal the serum or use it on himself but just destroys it without hesitation showed how strong his beliefs are and he planted doubt in Bucky that Bucky had to overcome.
Took the 'you don't think Lemar matters' line as supposed to be the character's berserk button at this juncture. Although the whole Lemar thing altogether was just a bad idea from the start: not only another 'black best friend' character, but he's killed off?! Walker would've gone haywire anyway, but it mightn't have been that explosive over 6 episodes, instead more insidious.
Really happy that you did the entire season all at once! I think it made for a much more succinct and poignant review! To be honest probably the best review I've heard of the entire Series so far
The whole flag smashers arc was supposed to have the grc releasing a virus and killing off the lady and a bunch of their supporters ...but the pandemic happened and in response they went with the super soldier storyline it sucks they had to pivot but I think they did good with what they had to deal with
I don't think the super-soldier serum was added later, 'cause it's integral to so much. But I think the original reason they took it was to be immune from the virus, Karly in the show wanted to deliver the serum for everyone (and Mama Donna, I think) to save them from the virus I think, originally
If we will have a second series could be call Cap and Bucky. I don't think he is Winter Soldier anymore, like Sam is not Falcon. General Bucky or Buck.
Great review! I agree with you on most points. One thing you didn't mention that I felt was somewhat glossed over was the Bucky plotline of making amends, especially towards the end. I was looking forward to an intense scene with the Japanese grandpa like the one we got with Isaiah, but it went by so quickly, it felt like they were rushing him out of his former issues.
One person came out of this a new Super-soldier, John Walker/US Agent...that's it. Isaiah got his story told and everyone else died. The Serum storylines worked, ALL of them. John got powers, Isaiah was introduced, and the Flag-smasher super-soldiers created a threat that needed "Avenger" help. Even Zemo fits seamlessly into the mix.
Pet peeve. The end title says Sam graduates into Captain America but Bucky is still the winter soldier? Cmon man he’s deserved to leave that mantle behind. Why ya gotta call him that IN the finale credit?
Part of me thinks the end title should've been Captain America and Bucky Barnes or something. But maybe they want him to own his past as Winter Soldier
The Winter Soldier is not an evil title in itself. Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, December 1776: "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman..."
It's interesting that you picked out "Always" as Sam's iconic moment. I kept waiting for a moment like that from him, but I didn't feel like he got one.
Good review. I agree with most of the issues you pointed out but can look the other way due to on a whole it was just fantastic. Every character (flaws and all) were in service to the main characters and the storyline and the need for action scenes to keep people engaged as the dramatic storyline took was necessary. Walker’s storyline obsessed the fandom a bit too much but I think Marvel knows its audience and knew how to sneak Isaiah right into the heart of the story. I want to the guys to get their film trilogy.
Love your viewpoints and critique of this series. Nice to see someone young with a level head and a bit of clever wit. Some of your contemporaries seem a bit light weight..not to be judgmental. But, all in all....this was nicely done. Sorry I was late to the party...but we old timers attempt to keep up.
I’m a little surprised about a lot of people missing main point here, but maybe I’m wrong about this, but the villains in both shows are just small obstacles to a bigger finale. The movie villains were never the strongest part of the film, they were used in order to form our heroes and in some cases teams. These minor villains all lead to the big bad guy and it payed off. The longer these shows / movies go on, the more of the same we’re going to get, just like the comics. They’ve had to reinvent characters and backstories numerous times. So if they’re going to stay true to the source material you’re going to get that. Remember, Feige is about the long game and we’re on the 10 yard line, plenty more yards to go.
The thing I really liked about this show is that the episodes were longer, with wandavision we got rather short episodes that sometimes lacked a bit and just left us hanging for a bit too long with a cliffhanger every episode and I left episode with a dissatisfied feeling, but with this the 40-50 minute Episodes really gave you a good substance every week and even tho you always wanna know what happens next I just left more satisfied since we got a good chunk of show every week
12:09 I agree that there were a lot of super soldiers, but disagree on taking that away from John Walker. He is one in the comics (via Power Broker). He started here very well capable without it, but the show added nuance by having Lamar’s death and his insecurities as Captain America the deciding factors to take the serum. Also, it highlights how Sam opt not to take the serum, that you can be an effective Captain America without it.
i started chasing the drama cuz I am a Stan-stan,... and what is successful about this show is that, I end the show really loving the character of Sam Wilson. Like what you have mentioned, his character development is very well thought through and it gives the entire show a very wholesome ending for both Sam and Bucky. The other thing that I appreciate much about the show is the action sequences which are so well crafted that it is really, a TV show made from a budget of a movie.
I agree with you about so many super soldiers kind of diluting their significance. Especially the Flag Smashers didn't need to be super soldiers. Like, their cause was big enough and didn't even benefit from them being super soldiers. It's like it was only to get Zemo interested and later Walker take the serum (they could probably come up with another way for Karli to kill Lamar, given she carries guns and his killing was so unconvincing).
I think what is really interesting about this show and wanda vision is it they feel like(in my opinion) satisfying story's in their own rights starring integral members of the mcu but they don't feel like required viewing. They're largely self contained stories and I'm wondering if people who don't watch the shows will be able to jump from captain America giving falcon the shield in endgame to him showing up in whatever movie as the new captain America without watching this series.
@@jessec.6876 If the rumor is true, the reason they changed the storyline is because these movies and shows are supposed to be escapism. Making it a virus/plague storyline is too close to the reality we already have.
@@Bad_Wolf_Media im pretty sure audiences can tell fiction from reality. It seems like a bad move to make a worse story for the sake of making the audience feel safe? If the rumors are true then everyone is just gonna wanna watch the other cut, including me. This whole changing a story for the sake of what's happening in the real world is such bullshit. Like audiences do not care because its a super hero show. It just goes to show marvels backbone when sticking to a specific vision.
@@jessec.6876 Depends on how they used the virus originally, there's a lot of conspiracy theories and people blaming others for the pandemic we are in, if the show used a pandemic as a weapon created by a government/a villain you can see how it would be bad. Surrounding this issue I don't trust people to have common sense, 'cause a lot of people still don't. And it's Marvel TV show on Disney+, everyone is watching. The show talked about racism as a real issue, if they touched upon the pandemic with the same sensibility (which I doubt it was, since 2 years ago our current situation was nothing but fiction, far from happening) then it would work.
17:07 Isaiah Bradley's story was definitely a beneficial story to this series.. I genuinely do hope we possibly see more of him, or atleast his grandson.
Wow that was the same point that I was thinking of at the end of the episode. I was counting on my fingers how many super soldiers are left and how many we've seen so far. It almost doesn't seem like a special thing anymore and I am kinda bummed about that but that's just me, no big. Awesome review Dan!
Do you think the show would have been more affective if it had been released all at once, Netflix style? Wandavision was absolutely made by its release week by week, but I actually would have preferred the ability to watch FAWS as one continuous story.
Sam's Captain America suit is my new favorite MCU super suit. It looks like it was taken directly out of the comics, which can be a gamble, but it looked so freaking cool irl.
Carl Lumbly is a national treasure. He's been such a part of my fandom for a long time with all his voiceover work, and then his role in the Berlantiverse. He's just so great.
Maybe we will get a “Snyder cut” of all the plot that was cut with a dvd release. I agree they could have had 2/3 more episodes to flesh those plots out.
Coincidentally I've been re-watching Battlestar Galactica and saw the episiode with Carl Lumbly not long before his appearance in Captain America and The Winter Soldier. There are minor parallels in the two storylines but it's more about the man as an actor and he is a powerful presence whether as a young man or a much older man who really looks like he's wearing makeup. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure looks like it. Considering they probably could've hired someone older in the first place so they didn't have to worry about the makeup I'm hoping this means they were planning ahead and that the character will be back in a second season in some kind of flashback.
I thought Sam's final fight with Karli was an interesting de-escalation of Steve's fighting ideology. Steve was very stoic in his drive to keep going no matter how many times he was hit, but he'd always hit back. Whereas Sam wasn't fighting back at all. I thought this was similar to (what little I know of) historic black rights protests, where they'd just have to take the abuse and not defend themselves as any minor signs of aggression would be responded to disproportionately.
Except that it made very little sense, he was literally captain america who was fighting a whiny, girl terrorist on her period mood swings, he wasn't some common , powerless black person fighting for his rights in 1940 against racist government authority figures.
I'm surprised about the aversion to the super soldier stuff. I thought it was really compelling. But pretty much everything else I totally agree with, and I did watch the show in chunks (episode 1 didn't hook me at all, so I waited and watched 2-5 a few days before the finale, totally the way to go). Really loved this show and it just made me more impatient to experience MCU stories in the theater again!!
Having had a whole day to sit on the finale, I honestly really really enjoyed this series, more so than Wandavision. I liked the discussions being had by people, the different takes on actual issues being highlighted, the contrast between Sam and Bucky both fighting completely different internal fights that align so well. Majority of characters were wrapped up well enough for me as side characters go. The only misstep that is still in my head is the odd element of redemption that John Walker seemed to receive in the end. That seemed too unresolved for me.
Like you Dan, I think on both series the good out weights the bad, so as a whole, I really enjoyed the show. My biggest nitpick would be the pacing of the last half of both series. We get all excited towards the middle, the penultimate episode is fantastic, and the final episode is good, but kinda meh by comparison. it might not be a popular opinion, but if the had ended the series with a few more lose ends so we could have the same type of excitement an anticipation of looking at Sam looking at the box. I'm thrilled to see Emily VanCamp tackle another morally ambiguous character, but how awesome would it have been to learn she was the Power Broker after that pardon.?!?! Like, oh no! Our sweet Sharon Carter was wronged by being left in the dust and making out with her step uncle and she is still a good Agent Carter! Then plot twist she is not and now we have to wait for the next series or movies to see her nefariousness! I also can't wait to see Torres as the new Falcon! I liked the wide eyed, yet competent portrayal that character. Plus I'm a sucker for more Latin characters :) I think the Flag Smashers development suffered because of the scrapped plot point about there being a virus. Not saying they shouldn't have scrapped it, but just some 4th wall breaking circumstances that affected the show.
i completelyyyyy agree about the flag smashers. i never felt any urgency with them as ‘villains’. and even had questions on the last episode because i just didn’t ever seen them as a pressing issue :(
Really appreciate all your thoughts. And not just because I largely agree with you lol. Overall very pleased with FATWS, hoping to see more content in this form from Marvel going forward, even as theaters open. They seem to feel freer to take on subjects like loss, tragedy, racial injustice and to allow their characters to actually sit with their feelings. Love it.
I think that’s implied, he’s on “speaking terms” w Bucky and Sam but not full “buddy buddies” w them yet. I think he’s gonna be a “Jason Todd/Red Hood” type of vigilante/ally to the good guys even though they won’t see eye-to-eye all the time. Assuming Walker is helping out but his methods being more brutal and rouge.
I actually liked the arc of John walker getting the serum. It was a great comparison to Steve. Plus the tension of whether he'll get the serum or not actually got me so invested in him.
The pandemic influenced both MCU series to date. Wandavision could have used one more episode. This series seems to have lost an epidemic story line. I find them both excellent, anyway. Looking forward to Loki.
I liked what they did with walker in episode 6. You could really see the internal struggle when he had to decide if he wants revenge or save the people. Because Walker was never really evil. He wants to do the right thing but is just a bit unhinged.
I agree with the Flagsmashers being a lackluster storyline, but that's usually the standard for Marvel movies (now TV shows), a forgettable villain that's there only to serve as plot fodder for the Hero to be the highlight at the end of the film. I think they served their purpose to the story alright :)
Check New Rockstar video. They make a point that there was probably a virus or pandemic line involving the suffering the Flag Smasher seem to get also tired about, and due to the COVID pandemic got erased.
Zemo getting the last laugh, it was a nice surprise for his arc. The fact that he accepts the consequence of the bombing where King Wakanda dies is also interesting.
He was ready to die at the end of Civil War, by his own hand, so I can see him accept being detained
Love that he had his Alfred did his dirty work lol
@@nont18411 I felt prolly more backstory to that old boy, like maybe some of his kin were also killed by supersoldiers
Technically T'Chaka is also a super soldier who killed his own brother and exiled his nephew.
I actually thought US Agent had a better arc and served as a better antagonist than Karli and the Flag Smashers, even though he had around half of the screen time by comparison. Hats off to Wyatt Russell for a solid performance. And facepalm to the internet for trashing him for being a such a good actor they forgot he wasn’t US Agent in real life.
Yep. Way better fleshed out than Karli and the Flag Smashers.
Kari was plain and boring. US Agent is technically more of an anti-hero than a villain as he is not exactly a terrible person. He has a shitty attitude that makes him petulant but he’s more of a “Jason Todd/Red Hood” vigilante than a villain. He had a deep story arc ans you can ACTUALLY relate to him. With Karli not so much, she went full villain midway through the show
He was leaps and bounds better. I personally couldn’t stand Karli’s character in the show. I would sigh and facepalm every single time she was on screen. Truly unbearable. Its sad that I felt that way in a show that i generally liked. The flag smashers and their entire arc was easily my biggest con.
I think US agent will be a series antagonist, while other villains like the flag smashers will be season antagonist
@@luhedi6303 I'm up for that. Good guess. Hope it turns out to be true.
The line ‘you don’t think his life mattered?’ felt more like a friend hearing them disregard his friend, rather than racial commentary to me.
That was exactly my take away from that line. It was Walker defending his friend, especially as both Karli and Walker had killed each others friend. There was nothing racial about it, that was left to other areas of the story.
I agree. For Karli he was just another dead soldier. For Walker that was his best friend.
Yeah, that's how I read that.
It was probably there to resonate on multiple levels, so i think J and Dan are both right on this one, but yes, the way it hit me was mainly that it was the loss of a best friend that matters, since that was within the immediate context of the scene.
Exactly. I thought it was a perfect dialog exchange that had nothing to do with race. It goes a little way to help rehumanize him after the events in the town square. His bits in this episode seemed to give him a bit of a redemption/maturity arc as far as choosing to save the hostages instead of pursuing Karli, his expression when Sam delivered his speech at the end, etc. He's still twitchy and conflicted, so they can play it however they want going forward. I thought Wyatt Russell did an outstanding job in the part and wow, does he look like his parents or what!?!
One thing I liked was a specific character beat between Sam and Bucky: If you’ve ever been in a position where you are friends with someone only because you and they share a common very close friend it can be really hard to build an independent friendship on its own merits with that person once your common friend is gone. At the beginning all they had in common was “ Hey we both know Steve.” But by the end montage it was very clear these two are now just as close as they ever were with Steve but it’s now built on affection and respect for each other and not the shared history with Steve.
Yes, I love their friendship now.
Personally I think that they should have opened with sam and Bucky rebuilding the boat.. it would have made their relationship more believable... you could imagine Bucky being drawn to sam after steve died... and sam feeling like he needed to look out for Bucky... being surrounded by salt of the earth type folk, could have worked it's way into his coming to terms with his winter soldier past... then theyd have a reason to go and fight the flag smashes together... instead of the "just because" that we got when Bucky randomly showed up to board sams military plane... I didnt think that their banter or bickering was earned at the start it just felt weird... and when I was watching the final scenes of the series I found myself saying... these are the scenes we needed at the start...
I know this line might be a bit overused, but when Karli was beating up Sam and asked him why he wouldn't fight back, I was kinda expecting him to reply with " I can do this all day"
nice line but in that scene, sam said "i won't fight you". steve also used this exact same line too in ca:tws, when bucky tried to kill him in that helicarrier
when she told him to stay down but he wouldn't
@@tricietrix true, this scene is definitely more of a callback to tws
He said “All day” in episode 5 as he ran past his nephews during training. Not quite the same, but I liked it.
I think they intentionally waited a beat to make the audience think that he would say that but I'm glad he didn't because I want Sam to be his own hero and not just Steve 2.0. The Captain America movies got a lot of mileage out of reusing the same dialogue again and again (especially in relation to Steve and Bucky) and I believe that now is the time for a fresh slate.
Actually the JLD casting was kept top secret! As a seinfeld fan, I was shocked and delighted!
Clunky endings for Sharon Carter and John Walker were totally redeemed by everything with Isaiah Bradley who was the absolute standout of the show
I actually quite liked the John Walker pivot. I like that in the end, he did not end up being the total villain everyone thought he was going to end up as. This is how I read John Walker's arc in this series and why I kind of like him as an imperfect model of a hero.
The main takeaway I get from John Walker is that though he was not the right man to be Captain America, it does not mean that he still is not capable of being a hero. He's also a soldier constantly dealing with PTSD and regrets on the battlefield despite everyone telling him he's the best and that he did all he could. When he loses Battlestar (Lamar), he loses his moral compass and he understandably lashes out at the loss. I think John believed that if he took the Super Soldier Serum he would be "invincible," to some degree: that being a super soldier would give him the power to serve, save, and protect. Unfortunately for him, he takes it, and still is not strong enough to save his best friend and that breaks him for a bit. Ultimately though, the finale proved Lamar was right, more power did make John more of himself. It made him more emotional and magnified his regrets, but it also powered up the soldier and heroic heart Walker still carried within. That's why when presented with the choice to pursue Carli for revenge, and save the lives of the people who took the Captain America title away from him, he ultimately chooses to save people. He chooses to sacrifice personal gain and satisfaction for the sake of others. So John Walker is not the perfect hero and is not a moral paragon, but that does not mean his longing to be a hero and to do the right thing is not without merit.
Finally someone who understands him for who he is. The amount of hate on him is insane. Also, if I remember, Peter Parker is not the right man to be Iron Man as well but we all love him being the hero as Spider-Man.
The fact he regretted things he did, is not an excuse to keep doing it (killing that guy), For me, he can well be a self absorbed soldier, who would go over the top to achieve his goals and hide his mistakes behind accolades. There is nothing to make us believe he wants to "serve, save and protect" more than be in the spotlight.
He is no devil, but no hero either, just a dubious human, but I really didn't like the last look he gave to Captain America.
@@hv8546 “keep doing it”
John literally only killed 1 person the entire show. Sam killed more people in his first action sequence a lot more than him.
@@nont18411 Do I really need to explain the difference between killing in the heat of battle and a explicit execution?
So, Walker being the only "hero" expelled in shame and stripped off his honours in entire marvel universe is just amateurish writing?
Is that your only point to what I said? You can do better, mate.
Loved the episode. I loved seeing Sam Wilson Captain America confirmed. But for me, the tribute to Isiah Bradley - he deserved it.
You can tell the Flag Smashers story got cut up and edited so much in the back end. Clearly a virus/disease story that was removed.
Release the covid cut!
@@travisspazz1624 i support this 😂😆
That's just a rumor.
@@WrambleOn
You can tell by the use of ADR in many of the Flag Smasher scenes. Theres so much important dialogue is said off screen or through news casts.
@@dogsbreakfast4952 Your opinion is your own. It's also wrong, but you have the right to be wrong.
Fun fact: Isaiah’s house in the show is on the street that dead ends into the house where MLK was born. You can actually see the MLK house behind Sam’s right shoulder in episode 5 when he’s outside on the street.
So the new Captain America's suit was made in Africa. I see what they did there!
Oh, nice catch.
Wakanda it was made in wakanda... A fictional place...
@@jond508 This means you're not able to see the subtext!
I think one reason why Bucky was always kind of anti-Walker came down to a simple fact. He knew he was off. Bucky said it himself, he knows crazy because he's a bit crazy. And that gives us insight. Bucky knows Walker isn't worthy to be Cap, because Bucky isn't worthy. It's not really a saying Walker is bad guy, that's the difference.
Surely the fact the serum is used so much here, shows the various ideas, thoughts and adaptations of it it can have. It’s the thing that links all the stories together, rather than have 4 different plots that have no reason to compare and see the contrast.
Also, I personally prefer the US Agent story, to just making him another ‘he just went crazy’ villain.
Exactly, u wouldn't need Isaiah if there wasn't super soldier flag smashers, and John wouldn't have gone nuts if it wasn't for serum
And yeah he complained about the flag smashers being one note but then advocated for Walker to be one note
When everyone's super, no one will be. One super-soldier feels otherworldly because everyone around them is vulnerable.
@@jamesjohnston1297 lamar wasn't, look what happened to him
@@jamesjohnston1297 the plot was the first episode!!!... kidnapped Officer + Serum!... Karli and the Falcon (intentionally and unintentionally) Sabotaging Sharon's plan.
It was surprising and refreshing to see obvious social commentary in this show. To me, it had much more to say than I'm usually expecting. Hopefully we get a second season--I want more Louisiana cookouts!
forget about second season, we got a movie coming
I thought they did such a good job in the finale at bringing Sam to the forefront and making him the new Captain America! I can't believe it has already been 6 weeks since it began and I really did enjoy this show overall! Now on to Loki!👀🙌
"I think you can cut out Zemo and lose nothing."
WHAT?! Zemo IS Bucky's arc. Without him, Bucky doesn't get challenged as a character.
Absolutely. I think in the long term this series is as much about Zemo as about the two leads. Actually, Zemo in my view was the most interesting part of the whole series...
I think many people completely missed the relationship with Zemo and Bucky. Probably because there was so much going on and it was never really stated outright. But their ending scene was one of my favorites in the show.
@Maddie 99 And then when he had the chance he showed him he wasn't a killer, by not killing him :') brings tears to my eyes
Someone may have said this - but originally they were supposed to be dealing with a pandemic, but they changed it because of the actual pandemic
Really? Marvel is run by a witch. Confirmed.
That man has all the answers for the future and knows what is going to happen. Mofo just wont loose.
I thought "I failed twice" linked to him talking about WW2 and Thanos rather than him fighting for Hydra. That was never a choice fight. I may have interpretated the comment incorrectly.
There was definitely a big plot cut that they just didn't have time/money to completely reasses, so just worked around.
I thought the same thing about that Bucky line. He never chose Hydra’s fight so he didn’t fail. I thought he meant WW2 and the grape.
I think Dan’s just referring to the fact that Bucky never really stopped fighting, rather than the two bigger fights Bucky was specifically thinking of, ww2 and thanos
Yeah, that's what I thought of too
When John reacted to that comment about Lamar it wasn't because he's a black man. It was just because that was his best friend.
yeah i didnt read into any social commentary with that
To be fair. Im sure the writers thought people would think of it as the other thing also. But they still put it in
Yes, Dan is the only person reviewing who made that inference. I honestly do not believe that was the intended message.
This guy is a joke. He obviously doesn't know that comic writers didn't force issues unto its readers. What happened here is just wokeness. Period.
@@Caydes_ghost76 shut up.
Really, really enjoyed it. Like Dan said, the biggest and most important takeaway from both shows is how good a job they did developing the title characters. I look forward to more US Agent, most likely hunting Skrulls. Wish there'd been a Thunderbolts setup!
@@NorthernSeaWitch Yeah, I think/hope Val is putting together a Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers team to deal with the Skrull invasion because she can't trust any established heroes, who'd be targets.
I’m fairly certain Sharon will be revealed as a Skrull in Secret Invasion.
Oh SHEEEEEET.
@@bluepearl_22
When have the writers used it as a "fakeout". All I've been hearing on the subject are fan theories. Also, Skrulls revert back to Skrulls when they die. So, where has there been a Skrull "fakeout". The only confirmed Skrulls misdirect was in SM:FFH and, that was at the end of the movie.
In order for Secret Invasion to work, we need at least 1-2 characters we know to be revealed to have been Skrulls. I don't think the Sharon we know would go in the direction she did in this series, so her being a Skrull makes total sense
I hope she's a skrull. I don't think Sharon would have turned evil just because she didn't receive a pardon.
@@justinking7212 It would also help explain how Sharon became the power broker if she had been dusted by Thanos' snap and only returned 6 months ago. A Skrull could have assumed her identity 5 years ago, allowing plenty of time to build up the Madripoor operations.
Sharon is probably angry that Steve went back to Peggy 🤣
I made that comment this morning. Hell have no furry like a woman scorned and being dumped by time by time travel for your aunt would cause the ultimate scorn.
Well...yeah, getting dumped for your geriatric great aunt has to sting a little...
I mean, how would she even know that? It's not public knowledge that Steve went to an alternate timeline. The public seems to mostly think he's dead and it's clear that even people in the government (see the senator asking if Cap wasn't on the moon in the last episode) don't know what happened to him. I don't see why Sam or Bucky would share that with anyone.
@@KW-vy1rf Maybe he himself told her, felt he owed her an explanation on why he's 100 years old now? Just a thought...
@@madsgrams2069 given that they haven't made clear what happened to Steve but Bucky and Sam keep talking about him and behaving as though he is dead, my belief is that after he gave the shield to Sam, he went back to his alternate timeline with Peggy and their kids. As such, I don't think he would have had time to track down Sharon in Madripoor to tell her what happened.
What a great series. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Were there slight nitpicks? Yes, of course, nothing is perfect but there were so many great moments that any little things I might not of liked were completely overshadowed. I know the main storyline of the Flagsmashers was cut out but I think the shift to focus on the journey of Sam becoming Cap worked more than a tradition good vs bad storyline. Hope for more from this new duo.
One thing that I saw about Bucky that none of the reactioners that I follow have mentioned. When Bucky did some light flirting with Sarah it showed that the man he was before becoming the Super Soldiers was resurfacing. Remember, Bucky went out on a date with two women in the Cap Movie when they were introduced. He was a major ladies' man. I can't believe how many have overlooked those moments.
the second girl was meant for steve initially haha but i agree
Another thing. Does anyone else think that Bucky got SEVERELY watered down and nerfed? He is still enhanced and is almost as skillful in h2h combat as Steve To the point that he’s able to fend off T’Challa. But lately, since Infinity War, he just doesn’t do much it gets his ass whooped by absolute BUMS like the flag smashers
@@_jolie_ She was never interested in Steve. LOL!! It was his way of being a player while looking like he was taking care of his friend. LOL!! He did go dancing with both women when Steve went to enlist again. She didn't seem phased at all.
@@ElPresidenteMargz It's true... to be fair in Civil War he had planned his escape route out of his building a while before, he was ready for it, and maybe his best skills fade away as he breaks out of the brainwashing
@@ElPresidenteMargz He is holding himself back because he is trying to rediscover himself. That's how I see it.
I enjoyed both this and Wandavision. I do think this one stuck the landing better, pun intended. In Wandavision when Wanda was told "they'll never know what you did for them" I cringed so hard that I basically snapped out of enjoying the show at the end. But I think this one handled its messaging better. You covered a lot of the same feelings I had. I will say, I particularly loved the line where Sam said "nobody is asking *why*" or whatever. I think it's a point that needs to be addressed especially when talking about terrorism, it's an issue that doesn't come from nothing. No matter how heinous, there are still conversations we can have about what we can do to prevent it (hint: dropping less bombs might help). I was legitimately and pleasantly surprised to see a Disney property address this, even if it was not the deepest or most well-executed take.
John Walker still had the angry and hate-filled mentality going into the finale. When he showed and called out to Karli, he didn't give a damn about the GRC reps that were in the truck, one of which was burning. He was seeing red and was the broken man that had snapped at the end of Episode 4.
But when the truck was going over the edge, they clearly showed him faced with a choice, where he looked down and saw Karli there, in his reach, but the truck was about to go over the side. The next shot was him dropping his shield - letting go of the shield - to save the people that need saved rather than pursuing his vengeance.
It may not have been a multiple-episode character arc, but it was a really well done arc. That moment when the shield drops was all he needed to say to redeem himself. That's when Bucky and Sam accepted him again.
10:10 It was a very packed show and that does make it hard to do every character justice. But, with the Flasgsmashers specifically, I believe it was leaked that there was originally a storyline involving bioweapons and a virus that had to be cut for obvious reason.
24:00 Nope! She was a surprise to everyone! It had been rumored that there would be a very well-known actress playing a comic book character in episode 5, but it had not leaked who it was or what character she'd been playing.
"That guy's a psychopath!
No joking with him!"
Agreed.🤣
He's not a psychopath, he's a soldier.
So are Sam and Bucky, but unlike Sam, he isn't able to always see the greater good in people and keep fighting for it, especially when it conflicts with his mission. And unlike Bucky, he already considers his appointment to Captain America/USAgent as atonement for his past actions. So sometimes he's able to do the right thing and save the civilians instead of chasing his friend's murderer, and sometimes he makes the wrong choice like murdering a surrendering rebel.
I don't think Bucky was particularly fond of him either, he might just understand that Walker isn't evil, but has his own demons to deal with which make him the wrong person to be Captain America. Same reason why Sam gives Walker a nod after his Cap speech: understanding where he is trying to help ("you made a mistake"), even though he often goes about it the wrong way.
My emotions in last episode!😳🤦🏽♂️😲🥺🤯🤯🥺👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙏🏽
Daamn!!!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👌🏽
This whole show had allot of powerful speeches and moments
@@lifeasafanpodcast9529 it was the moments for me!
As if Steve Rogers was looking from afar, knowing full well this was going to happen! (Sam Revealed as New Captain!)
The look was Amazing I cried🥺🥺🙏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Dan, your dedication is admirable. Despite looking like you were going to fall asleep during the review a few times, you carried on. 👍🏻
RE: Karly & Mama Donya feeling like it has something missing. There is a reason for that, and its the same reason for everything these days; the panoramic.
And I don't just mean shooting schedule disrupted. From what I hear, the original script had a Viral Outbreak component (see episode 2 with vaccines being transported, weird instances of ADR before Zemo shoots the scientist), that was taken out for sensitivity reasons. Due to real world events.
The panorama really did ruin everything.
(gotta love autoconnecticut)
I don't mind the ending with John Walker so much, he's a generally good guy that lost it when his best friend died. I think they gave him some slack because of that and you can see he still wants to help.
Seems obvious Val is going to assemble the Thunderbolts, leading to an Avengers vs Thunderbolts showdown, possibly resulting in Young Avengers taking over
I also felt the same way about the Zemo mask. He was so excited to grab it to use for 10 minutes lol. Promotional material made me feel he was gonna wear it to the shower even.
More like 10 seconds lmao
He'll be back... and with the mask. Zemo in the show felt like a set up to something
Right before it ended, I thought to myself, "I'll bet they're going to change the title to 'Captain America and the Winter Soldier.'" Called it!
I did not even catch that the first time I watched it. Good call on the title change, but it would have been even more impactful if after they showed the new title it also said "will return".
I was pleasantly surprised, I’m glad you called it! 👍🏼
I think "Captain America and Bucky Barnes" would have been better. I feel like Buck's arc is as much putting the Winter Soldier behind him as Sam's arc is going from Falcon to Captain.
So I revisited that scene in the finale. When he says 'I tried and failed to fight for something bigger than me - twice'. I'm pretty sure he's not referring to Hyrda at all. That was the Winter Soldier. I took it to mean when he tried to defend Wakanda and the entire world and ended up just getting dusted. Wouldn't make sense for Bucky to say he 'tried' for Hydra.
Had to think about that one for a sec as well. Obviously he meant his mission in WW2, first. But I figured the second thing he failed at was either succeeding as a brainwashed soldier (but why would current Bucky care about that) or failing in Infinity War (hard on himself--there was nothing he could've done to stop Thanos).
It's gotta be his defeat in Infinity War.
@@Kris_AB You'd hope so right?? Or that would be a really weird thing to say.
Here is why you need the super soldier serum plot. So all these nerds can see Sam Wilson handle himself as a superhero without the serum. That’s all I saw after Endgame, “why didn’t Bucky get the shield? He has the super soldier serum. He is the only one who can handle the shield.” Sam Wilson doesn’t need it.
Perfectly explained!
I'm with you but...yes he does. Watching some of the scenes where Sam was faced with a Super Soldier where annoying to watch because you have that strange divide where if they were fighting Bucky they'd be trying to break him in half. When fighting Sam it's like they're pulling punches. I'd rather he just not fight threats like that if he can't just shoot them or something because the fighting looks ridiculous.
They had a virus plot that had to be taken out and I can tell the Karli and the flag smashers storyline suffered because of it.
The Flag smasher's was "what can happen when the wrong ppl get the serum!"... The main story is Sharon and the follow on to the Movies coming!!!
The first Episode was forgotten, about Sharon trying to Kidnap the (perfect) Soldier! Before Karli and the Falcon sabotaged the plans (one intentionally and the other unintentionally)
Isaiah Bradley's reaction to the exhibit... Carl Lumbly killed it with that quiet performance 😭
(Endgame, WandaVision now this; what is it with Marvel and teary finales?)
On a high note, I clapped so~ hard when I saw the "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" end title.
BTW
Love the new Cap outfit...but he really needs proper headgear. I know that this is a nod to the comics but half masks are totally impractical.
Sadly, since the pandemic came around causing the storyline that they originally had for the Flag Smashers to be changed, it did leave them less sympathetic. But if the original storyline had been kept in regarding a manmade virus released in the GRC camps it would have been much clearer why so many would have been willing to join them and die for the cause better to realize.
Yeah, there were elements re written in the flag smashers for sure. Tough position to be in. That storyline sounds great, but too close to literal current events, for comfort. I can already see how people could twist the narrative to justify unfavorable actions. Like the show was purposefully making a statement on the event, not the idea. But it’s also interesting how lately more than ever, it seems life imitates life. Comics have been used to explore complex ideas all the time, perfect fantasy medium for it
Flag Smashes killed a LOT of innocent people. They are terrorists. Period.
To Dan's very eloquent point, "You get a super soldier! You get a super soldier! EVERYONE GETS A SUPER SOLDIER!!!!"
Update: I just got to the "you get a serum" part of the video lol.
I really agree with pretty much everything said, but I think Zemo was important. The scene where he can steal the serum or use it on himself but just destroys it without hesitation showed how strong his beliefs are and he planted doubt in Bucky that Bucky had to overcome.
Took the 'you don't think Lemar matters' line as supposed to be the character's berserk button at this juncture. Although the whole Lemar thing altogether was just a bad idea from the start: not only another 'black best friend' character, but he's killed off?! Walker would've gone haywire anyway, but it mightn't have been that explosive over 6 episodes, instead more insidious.
Really happy that you did the entire season all at once! I think it made for a much more succinct and poignant review! To be honest probably the best review I've heard of the entire Series so far
The whole flag smashers arc was supposed to have the grc releasing a virus and killing off the lady and a bunch of their supporters ...but the pandemic happened and in response they went with the super soldier storyline it sucks they had to pivot but I think they did good with what they had to deal with
I don't think the super-soldier serum was added later, 'cause it's integral to so much. But I think the original reason they took it was to be immune from the virus, Karly in the show wanted to deliver the serum for everyone (and Mama Donna, I think) to save them from the virus I think, originally
If we will have a second series could be call Cap and Bucky. I don't think he is Winter Soldier anymore, like Sam is not Falcon. General Bucky or Buck.
yeah it'd bug if they went with captain america and the winter soldier when he's not anymore
maybe the end of the next movie he officialy is known as white wolf to the world
@@mk6rfc1 YEAH. I almost forgot about that. That's huge.
Great review! I agree with you on most points.
One thing you didn't mention that I felt was somewhat glossed over was the Bucky plotline of making amends, especially towards the end. I was looking forward to an intense scene with the Japanese grandpa like the one we got with Isaiah, but it went by so quickly, it felt like they were rushing him out of his former issues.
One person came out of this a new Super-soldier, John Walker/US Agent...that's it.
Isaiah got his story told and everyone else died.
The Serum storylines worked, ALL of them.
John got powers, Isaiah was introduced, and the Flag-smasher super-soldiers created a threat that needed "Avenger" help. Even Zemo fits seamlessly into the mix.
Pet peeve. The end title says Sam graduates into Captain America but Bucky is still the winter soldier? Cmon man he’s deserved to leave that mantle behind. Why ya gotta call him that IN the finale credit?
I said the same thing, but maybe that maybe that could be a second season focus
Dan you should put all this content on podcast form! Big fan of "all my movies", keep up to great work
Why did the reporter say 4 Flag Smashers died in the explosion at the end of the finale when there were only 3 Flag Smashers in the truck?
The Flag Smashers’ storyline had more to do with a plot they had to rewrite due to COVID. So it’s a little all over the place.
Part of me thinks the end title should've been Captain America and Bucky Barnes or something. But maybe they want him to own his past as Winter Soldier
I’d like to think by the end of Season 2 it will change to Captain America and The White Wolf
well not quite season 2 anymore
Captain America and the White Wolf
The Winter Soldier is not an evil title in itself.
Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, December 1776:
"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman..."
@@mk6rfc1 why?
It's interesting that you picked out "Always" as Sam's iconic moment. I kept waiting for a moment like that from him, but I didn't feel like he got one.
Good review. I agree with most of the issues you pointed out but can look the other way due to on a whole it was just fantastic. Every character (flaws and all) were in service to the main characters and the storyline and the need for action scenes to keep people engaged as the dramatic storyline took was necessary. Walker’s storyline obsessed the fandom a bit too much but I think Marvel knows its audience and knew how to sneak Isaiah right into the heart of the story. I want to the guys to get their film trilogy.
Love your viewpoints and critique of this series. Nice to see someone young with a level head and a bit of clever wit. Some of your contemporaries seem a bit light weight..not to be judgmental. But, all in all....this was nicely done. Sorry I was late to the party...but we old timers attempt to keep up.
I’m a little surprised about a lot of people missing main point here, but maybe I’m wrong about this, but the villains in both shows are just small obstacles to a bigger finale. The movie villains were never the strongest part of the film, they were used in order to form our heroes and in some cases teams. These minor villains all lead to the big bad guy and it payed off.
The longer these shows / movies go on, the more of the same we’re going to get, just like the comics. They’ve had to reinvent characters and backstories numerous times. So if they’re going to stay true to the source material you’re going to get that.
Remember, Feige is about the long game and we’re on the 10 yard line, plenty more yards to go.
The thing I really liked about this show is that the episodes were longer, with wandavision we got rather short episodes that sometimes lacked a bit and just left us hanging for a bit too long with a cliffhanger every episode and I left episode with a dissatisfied feeling, but with this the 40-50 minute Episodes really gave you a good substance every week and even tho you always wanna know what happens next I just left more satisfied since we got a good chunk of show every week
PLEASE STAND BY!!!!
I think the short episodes were because of the TV theme. TV usually has 20 to 40 minutes episodes.
Thanks for the review Dan. I thought it was really well done and loved your point of view on it!
12:09 I agree that there were a lot of super soldiers, but disagree on taking that away from John Walker. He is one in the comics (via Power Broker). He started here very well capable without it, but the show added nuance by having Lamar’s death and his insecurities as Captain America the deciding factors to take the serum. Also, it highlights how Sam opt not to take the serum, that you can be an effective Captain America without it.
i started chasing the drama cuz I am a Stan-stan,... and what is successful about this show is that, I end the show really loving the character of Sam Wilson. Like what you have mentioned, his character development is very well thought through and it gives the entire show a very wholesome ending for both Sam and Bucky. The other thing that I appreciate much about the show is the action sequences which are so well crafted that it is really, a TV show made from a budget of a movie.
I agree with you about so many super soldiers kind of diluting their significance. Especially the Flag Smashers didn't need to be super soldiers. Like, their cause was big enough and didn't even benefit from them being super soldiers. It's like it was only to get Zemo interested and later Walker take the serum (they could probably come up with another way for Karli to kill Lamar, given she carries guns and his killing was so unconvincing).
Walker’s line had nothing to do with race as I heard it... just the brutal murder of his best friend.
I think what is really interesting about this show and wanda vision is it they feel like(in my opinion) satisfying story's in their own rights starring integral members of the mcu but they don't feel like required viewing. They're largely self contained stories and I'm wondering if people who don't watch the shows will be able to jump from captain America giving falcon the shield in endgame to him showing up in whatever movie as the new captain America without watching this series.
Glad I found this video. The UA-cam algorithm sucks. I'm subscribed to you and still had to go searching for this.
The Flag Smashers almost felt more like the McGuffin than the villians.
There was a whole virus plot line that was cut out because of obvious reasons that’s why a lot of stuff looks kinda out of place at times
Just a rumor. Nothing ever confirmed.
What are the obvious reasons of why it was cut up?
@@jessec.6876 If the rumor is true, the reason they changed the storyline is because these movies and shows are supposed to be escapism. Making it a virus/plague storyline is too close to the reality we already have.
@@Bad_Wolf_Media im pretty sure audiences can tell fiction from reality. It seems like a bad move to make a worse story for the sake of making the audience feel safe? If the rumors are true then everyone is just gonna wanna watch the other cut, including me. This whole changing a story for the sake of what's happening in the real world is such bullshit. Like audiences do not care because its a super hero show. It just goes to show marvels backbone when sticking to a specific vision.
@@jessec.6876 Depends on how they used the virus originally, there's a lot of conspiracy theories and people blaming others for the pandemic we are in, if the show used a pandemic as a weapon created by a government/a villain you can see how it would be bad. Surrounding this issue I don't trust people to have common sense, 'cause a lot of people still don't. And it's Marvel TV show on Disney+, everyone is watching.
The show talked about racism as a real issue, if they touched upon the pandemic with the same sensibility (which I doubt it was, since 2 years ago our current situation was nothing but fiction, far from happening) then it would work.
17:07 Isaiah Bradley's story was definitely a beneficial story to this series.. I genuinely do hope we possibly see more of him, or atleast his grandson.
Wow that was the same point that I was thinking of at the end of the episode. I was counting on my fingers how many super soldiers are left and how many we've seen so far. It almost doesn't seem like a special thing anymore and I am kinda bummed about that but that's just me, no big.
Awesome review Dan!
I think the sixth episode as a stand alone had some problems with pacing... It wanted to end 4 different times
Yea lots of tag ons
Do you think the show would have been more affective if it had been released all at once, Netflix style? Wandavision was absolutely made by its release week by week, but I actually would have preferred the ability to watch FAWS as one continuous story.
Finally! I have been dying to hear your take
Sam's Captain America suit is my new favorite MCU super suit. It looks like it was taken directly out of the comics, which can be a gamble, but it looked so freaking cool irl.
Carl Lumbly is a national treasure. He's been such a part of my fandom for a long time with all his voiceover work, and then his role in the Berlantiverse. He's just so great.
"That was more French than Zemo." Classic Dan.
“It was more house keeping, than plot mechanics.” Well put.
Maybe we will get a “Snyder cut” of all the plot that was cut with a dvd release. I agree they could have had 2/3 more episodes to flesh those plots out.
Coincidentally I've been re-watching Battlestar Galactica and saw the episiode with Carl Lumbly not long before his appearance in Captain America and The Winter Soldier. There are minor parallels in the two storylines but it's more about the man as an actor and he is a powerful presence whether as a young man or a much older man who really looks like he's wearing makeup. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure looks like it. Considering they probably could've hired someone older in the first place so they didn't have to worry about the makeup I'm hoping this means they were planning ahead and that the character will be back in a second season in some kind of flashback.
I thought Sam's final fight with Karli was an interesting de-escalation of Steve's fighting ideology. Steve was very stoic in his drive to keep going no matter how many times he was hit, but he'd always hit back. Whereas Sam wasn't fighting back at all. I thought this was similar to (what little I know of) historic black rights protests, where they'd just have to take the abuse and not defend themselves as any minor signs of aggression would be responded to disproportionately.
Except that it made very little sense, he was literally captain america who was fighting a whiny, girl terrorist on her period mood swings, he wasn't some common , powerless black person fighting for his rights in 1940 against racist government authority figures.
WE NEED MORE AND LONGER EPISODES!!!
It already felt like a movie that was too long what more did you want out of this?
I'm surprised about the aversion to the super soldier stuff. I thought it was really compelling. But pretty much everything else I totally agree with, and I did watch the show in chunks (episode 1 didn't hook me at all, so I waited and watched 2-5 a few days before the finale, totally the way to go). Really loved this show and it just made me more impatient to experience MCU stories in the theater again!!
Having had a whole day to sit on the finale, I honestly really really enjoyed this series, more so than Wandavision. I liked the discussions being had by people, the different takes on actual issues being highlighted, the contrast between Sam and Bucky both fighting completely different internal fights that align so well.
Majority of characters were wrapped up well enough for me as side characters go.
The only misstep that is still in my head is the odd element of redemption that John Walker seemed to receive in the end. That seemed too unresolved for me.
Like you Dan, I think on both series the good out weights the bad, so as a whole, I really enjoyed the show. My biggest nitpick would be the pacing of the last half of both series. We get all excited towards the middle, the penultimate episode is fantastic, and the final episode is good, but kinda meh by comparison. it might not be a popular opinion, but if the had ended the series with a few more lose ends so we could have the same type of excitement an anticipation of looking at Sam looking at the box. I'm thrilled to see Emily VanCamp tackle another morally ambiguous character, but how awesome would it have been to learn she was the Power Broker after that pardon.?!?! Like, oh no! Our sweet Sharon Carter was wronged by being left in the dust and making out with her step uncle and she is still a good Agent Carter! Then plot twist she is not and now we have to wait for the next series or movies to see her nefariousness! I also can't wait to see Torres as the new Falcon! I liked the wide eyed, yet competent portrayal that character. Plus I'm a sucker for more Latin characters :) I think the Flag Smashers development suffered because of the scrapped plot point about there being a virus. Not saying they shouldn't have scrapped it, but just some 4th wall breaking circumstances that affected the show.
great review dan
i completelyyyyy agree about the flag smashers. i never felt any urgency with them as ‘villains’. and even had questions on the last episode because i just didn’t ever seen them as a pressing issue :(
Really appreciate all your thoughts. And not just because I largely agree with you lol. Overall very pleased with FATWS, hoping to see more content in this form from Marvel going forward, even as theaters open. They seem to feel freer to take on subjects like loss, tragedy, racial injustice and to allow their characters to actually sit with their feelings. Love it.
I wish the flag smashers weren't in this show. There was literally no point to their story and Karli wasn't a very compelling villain
John Walker proved himself (in the finale) to be a hero in the moment when he had to make a choice. Excited to see more of him in the future.
I'm cool with Walker searching for redemption but he should have to work for it. It shouldn't be given to him so easily.
I think that’s implied, he’s on “speaking terms” w Bucky and Sam but not full “buddy buddies” w them yet. I think he’s gonna be a “Jason Todd/Red Hood” type of vigilante/ally to the good guys even though they won’t see eye-to-eye all the time. Assuming Walker is helping out but his methods being more brutal and rouge.
Man, I feel alot actually went right over your head
I actually liked the arc of John walker getting the serum. It was a great comparison to Steve. Plus the tension of whether he'll get the serum or not actually got me so invested in him.
The pandemic influenced both MCU series to date. Wandavision could have used one more episode. This series seems to have lost an epidemic story line.
I find them both excellent, anyway.
Looking forward to Loki.
I liked what they did with walker in episode 6. You could really see the internal struggle when he had to decide if he wants revenge or save the people. Because Walker was never really evil. He wants to do the right thing but is just a bit unhinged.
This channel will be even bigger soon and I’m going to miss it being a smaller and humble and Dan to myself channel ☹️
I agree with the Flagsmashers being a lackluster storyline, but that's usually the standard for Marvel movies (now TV shows), a forgettable villain that's there only to serve as plot fodder for the Hero to be the highlight at the end of the film.
I think they served their purpose to the story alright :)
There needs to be a scene of Sam explaining to Bucky the difference between a cookout and a barbecue,
7:26 Bucky may have been referring to World War 2 and "The Infinity War". I wouldn't think he was referring to HYDRA.
Great review. I agree on almost all of your points.
Check New Rockstar video. They make a point that there was probably a virus or pandemic line involving the suffering the Flag Smasher seem to get also tired about, and due to the COVID pandemic got erased.